by Saker’s Johnny-on-the-spot in Belgrade for the Saker Blog
What started a few days ago as a vigorous grass-roots movement is slowly but surely being reconfigured (and not in the good sense) on the streets of Belgrade and other cities in Serbia.
Violent regime-infiltrated thugs and agents provocateurs are gradually gaining the upper hand around the parliament building in Belgrade, which is the focal point of the nation-wide protests. Their task is two-fold. Firstly, to provide a plausible rationale for the brutal response of regime’s police and gendarmerie. They pointedly taunt the police, throw flaming torches at them, and hurl bricks to cause as much damage as possible in order to elicit repression, and then move away. Secondly, their mission is to taint the overwhelmingly peaceful protesters by association. The few independent media outlets are doing a heroic job of keeping the public informed about the real situation. The director of one of them, srbin.info, Dejan Zlatanović received anonymous death threats yesterday in retaliation for his persistently truthful reporting from the embattled streets of Belgrade. The mass media are almost entirely regime controlled and their mendacious spin is enough to make anyone puke. The thrust of it is to cast the tyrant and his cronies as defenceless victims of a coup attempt (it will be recalled that at a later stage in the Romanian game, colleague Ceausescu was spewing similar insults at his judges, calling them “putchists”). To drive the point home, upon returning from Paris, Vučić announced immediately that the protesters are to be treated as „terrorists“ and will be punished accordingly. The police have taken the cue from their leader and bones are breaking bones pitilessly.
The partly violent turn events have taken confirms once again that “leaderless” and “spontaneous” protest is a fiction that little children might believe in, but not many knowledgeable adults. What undoubtedly began as a spontaneous outburst will lead precisely nowhere unless it is given political direction and form, and clear demands comprehensible and acceptable to all are articulated. Otherwise, the energy will be dissipated and the ogre will remain a bit longer astride his shaky throne. The bane of the revolutionary situation that is emerging in Serbia is that virtually all figures in public life have been or are in bed with the system, in one form or another. The legendary “man on the street” no longer believes anyone, and in particular not those who have ever been linked to any of the abominable regimes that have ruled the country or the ghastly, utterly corrupt system that has sustained them. The so-called “opposition figures” who showed their faces at the protests were silenced and ejected, many physically, by the annoyed crowds. While the total discreditation of the venal political class may be seen abstractly as a good thing, actually the absence of anyone in public life with even minimal credibility to speak on behalf of the multitudes and to give their discontentment a cohesive purpose is resulting in disastrous consequences. It is hampering seriously the incipient insurrection and may even extend by default the tyrant’s lease on life.
Sidebar: Tonight there are some interesting new developments that strongly suggest that Vučić’s position is deteriorating. Employees of the government broadcasting service, the regime’s principal spin factory, are threatening to go on strike. That would be a serious blow to Vučić, although he does have more options in the form of several «private» broadcasters whose owners are allied to his regime. Doctors and nurses in hospitals are also threatening to walk off their jobs, which would cause great embarrassment to the regime, regardless of whether the pandemic is real or phony. Furthermore, there is a visible ramping up of anti-Russian propaganda, with elements of the regime claiming that Russia is behind the disorders and trying to provoke a coup (a spin reminiscent of the phony “Russian coup” in Montenegro a year or two ago), while other elements of the confused regime are blaming UK and Western agents for fomenting the disorders. The Israeli involvement is still a mystery, but it may not be on the official level at this point. Rather, the «dancing» Israelis caught in Belgrade (and quickly released, as is the custom in such situations) may simply have been hired chaos specialists, put in place by one of the interested foreign factions. Tonight there will be another huge rally in Belgrade, but we still do not have a full background picture. Spontaneous popular reaction is the largest component of it, but foreign elements are undoubtedly also making efforts to exploit the situation to their advantage.
The Serbian Savonarola, Orthodox monk Anthony, addressed the crowd in front of parliament to persuade them to expel regime provocateurs from their ranks and advised them soberly to overwhelm the regime by their resolve and numbers, not by pelting with stones the uniformed police, who are also Serbs:
The thought that comes to mind is that Western intelligence and Soros groups are trying to ramp up tension in order to put additional pressure on Vučić to sign off on Kosovo (there is supposed to be another meeting in Brussels on Sunday which he will be attending). But at this point they don’t want him gone, just sufficiently scared to do what is expected of him. Once he does it, of course, he will be eliminated and probably in the ensuing chaos Western intelligence agencies would try to manipulate the outcome by manoeuvring in another team of their loyal agents to replace him.
Meanwhile, Serbia’s tin-pot tyrant returned from his 15 minutes of fame in Paris, apparently missing totally the real reason why he was summoned there in the first place. The visit had its low and (in his mind) some high points. One low point was the welcome organized in his “honor” by Serbian students in France, who gathered in front of the Serbian embassy in Paris flaunting rather uncomplimentary placards such as “Tu es la Covid de Serbie,” translation hardly being required. But for an insecure Balkan ruler with Vučić’s colossal inferiority complex, there were some high points as well, masterfully arranged by his sophisticated French hosts pour épater les paysans. After returning, Vučić gushed to his Belgrade constituency that the cordial Macron took him to “apartments [within the Élysée Palace] other than his office, so that I was able to view the special private rooms reserved for French Presidents.” [Yes, and one hopes that Mme Macron had the good sense to chaperon this tour or it is anybody’s guess what level of cordiality the encounter may have attained out of her and the reporters’ sight.] “He [Macron] remembered the emotions he experienced in Belgrade,” Vučić recalled fondly. The star-struck Balkan parvenu then continued, “He showed me extraordinary hospitality.” Oh là là, but the poor thing apparently has no clue that he was brought to Paris not for a palace tour, but to receive his marching orders for Kosovo.
In sum, Serbian unrest will continue on Saturday, July 11, gathering place in front of parliament at 6 pm as usual, and we will see whether the politically untutored masses have learned any lessons from the previous few days. Will they begin keeping a healthy Covid-19 social distance from Vučić’s thugs and provocateurs, letting them slug it out, the more viciously the better, with Vučić’s equally contemptible policemen and gendarmes? Will they finally start writing their placards in Cyrillic, their Parisian student-colleagues justifiably deserving a pass for not doing so? And will some clever young Gavrilo Princip among them at last receive inspiration from on high to set forth concisely the reason for their sacrificial vigils in plain Serbian, for everybody’s benefit: “Alexander Vučić, you pestilence, begone!”
Vucic has unleashed his SAJ (STU in English) on Serbian youth. The gendarmerie was using ambulance vehicles to trick those young guys on the streets and virtually abduct them into arrest. Shameful pictures. He is the Pinochet of the Balkans in the making. Today the protests are rather peaceful, not much tension and seemingly fewer people on the streets of Belgrade. Vucic has openly said yesterday “they will all be arrested and defeated” in his usual sardonic, pathetic, gloating manner.
The problem with these protests is the total absence of leadership, a coherent agenda, or even goals. We see patriots chanting songs about Kosovo, some antivaccers, a disgraced monk who has apparently been fed up with the system and has nothing to lose now and is roaming the streets and boulevards saying they are planning to enslave the Serbian people and reduce them to an obedient amorphous globalized mass devoid of all identity.
All the media are regime controlled, only the American owned N1 is reporting though they keep obsessing about ‘rightists’ and ‘extreme right’ and are obviously helping Vucic to discredit the protests while operating under the guise of objectivity.
As it stands now, the situation is changing daily, it’s very dynamic and anything can happen yet. These protests may well last the whole summer and into the autumn, when according to some sources, there will be mass firings of workers employed with foreign owned corporations.
“in his usual sardonic, pathetic, gloating manner.” Sadly, he truly is an ogre. Can he get back to a human like state? It’s a near impossibility, I’m afraid. This will be a long and hard struggle. We need to organize and quick.
how come the people cant speak for themelves, organize for themselves..how come there are no ordinary leaders out of the people in spontaneous movement, out there on the streets?
what the hell is that? that is not how things go anywhere anytime. there are lots of people who can speak,with brains to organize reality and adrees the people with guidance and relevan in any siutuation. they can go so in groups of capable people coming together on the spur, people already versed in reality. that is what they live, they experience they have been shaped and formed by
how in heavens name no one, or groups can put what is happening together and speak and create the necessary direction which should be as plain as day because they would be speaking every ones experience, what they all have in mind which is why they are out there?
the people have no choice but to do it as they have begun. they have tossed the regular traitors so they at least know that that had to be done..that there is no leadership at all possible from the established political classes. and if the people know that that had to be done it follows that they are fully aawra of the situation, and are cable of leading themselves to direct democracy in replace of the dictator they are trying to get rid of.
I dont trust this reportage from the man on the spot. it is clear the man on the spot has a bias against popular direct political action. that implies that the people are not capable but that is, must be inaccurate. all there, are from amd of the people, the society..the failed traitorus supposedly capable political classes…they are off the people too – and the people will not go back to them for betrayal.
all the teachers, professors etc., are of the people too. you have a literate population, experienced, out in the strets for a reason: and that reason is that the see and understand the situation and are doing somethng about ot. then lets just see what happens. if our man on the spot has such opinions let him put down his pen, join the movement and offer up the leadership himself that he thinks is missing from the movement, to get the movement going right
our man on the sport seems a coward and way too fearful. let him focus then on accurate reportage while keeping his personal opinion muted…or let him go join the moevent. lets see what happens…..
Mairon
Since I live in Belgrade, I too am a witness to the current situation.
Demonstrations in the streets of Belgrade ? What demonstrations ? What we have here are Soros style “demonstrations” where a minority is being used to represent the majority and in the process trying a little bit of regime change, a color revolution.
Why now ? Well, we had Parliamentary elections in the country, with the bulk of the population supporting President Vucic. This did not suit Serbian liberals, nor their Western backers, who wanted to see a Guaido type puppet run the country. The result are these demonstrations, organized by NGO’s and liberals, headed by thugs and, unfortunately, backed by some teenagers and people in their 20’s. These people demonstrate in front of the Parliament building, and nowhere else. Their modus operandi is to provoke the police into violent actions, so that a reaction among the population would ensue. This did not happen. The police were very professional and extremely tolerant.
So far a number of thugs have been arrested, including foreign citizens, Israelis, Montenengrans and Bosnians, proof that foreign governements were behind the “demonstrations”.
What is interesting is that the propaganda methods used against President Vucic are identical to the ones used against President Putin. The liberals in Russia, with Western backing, accused President Putin of “not” being a patriot (!!!), preparing to “sell” the Donbass. This, of course, is an inversion of facts, an example of psychological warfare. The same tactic was used against President Vucic. He has been accused of being a “traitor”, being prepared to “sell” Kosovo and Metohija, which of course is not true. Worse, liberals and their media are insinuating that President Vucic has accused Russia of instigating the “demonstrations”, which can be taken as a sick joke, since President Vucic did nothing of the sort. The intent, of course, is to conceal Western involevement in this attempted color revolution.
Finally, I have to stress once more that these “demonstrations” do not have the backing of the population, nor will you see a popular “revolt” against President Vucic. This morning, for example, I passed by the Parliament building. I did not see a single cop. The situation is perfectly normal. Yes, tonight we shall see “demonstrators”, basically a bunch of immature kids who will come out to have a good time, and do some more dancing. However, with each day their numbers are being reduced. These “demonstrations” do not deserve a minute of publicity, as they are artificial, having nothing to do with reality.
Incredible, Vucic’s bots even here.
“minority” – even if we accept official figures from these grossly falsified “elections” “majority” got at most 35% of the population
“Election” against the law (started election with one election low but finished with other).
“President” Vucic who by the constitution can’t have any other official position is president of the ruling party SNS. President who can’t and is not allowed to be run for or be elected to any other position was the only person people voted for during the local and parliamentary elections. SNS is so unpopular that they didn’t dare to have their names on their ballot lists see this for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7AVailuDLE . Vucis was literally on the all national MSM for more then 90% of times. The rest of the time was assign to his crony ministers.
Imagine 19.30 (30min) news, traditionally most viewed by the people, he had an interview that lasted for 40 minutes. Vucis’s “interviews” are mostly monologues sometimes interrupted by him questioning the “interviewer” so he could make a point.
During Vucic’s mandate he has been constantly grossly attacking all people who would dare to oppose him with full backing of the complete MSM. This just escalated during the Corona/preelection time during which he locked in whole nation for more then 46 days and during that time it was him who was personally “saving” the country, delivering the aid bought by the taxpayers money, accusing opposition for being pro-death and pro-corona. He, who during his lifetime, never ever had a real job, who studied the low was lecturing on camera medical doctors how to use respirators … live on air (on national broadcasting company) during the delivery of the respirators as aid which by the way in the middle of the corona-crises were locked in the store for several days waiting for the “savior” to deliver them personally … same respirators that just a week ago were reveled to be either dysfunctional or lacking necessary infrastructure to be used during huge flair up of the corona outbreak just 2 weeks after the illegal elections (the epidemiological situation now is far wore then during the peak of the last corona-wave and during lock-down time). By the way same Vucic in one of his pathetic and hysterical verbal diarrheas was claiming that not a single person was infected on the election day.
Few days ago it was reveled that “government” (in Serbia there is no government, Vucic is unconstitutionally making all decisions) falsified the official real corona-statistics during pre-election time (lowering the number of deaths by conservative counting at least 3 times, this is proven, but up till 6-10 times based on the data that is incomplete or lost).
Serbian party DJB (enough is enough) has proven gross election fraud on 1/3 of the polling station (2.700) which consist of: huge number of missing unused ballot papers in the bags at some stations, in the other more then received, huge numbers of falsified result-lists from the ballot stations (a number of handwritten changes, non signed lists, lists signed with the obviously same hand style by the same person even from several ballot station – DJB forced the official publishing of those lists after the last election fraud), the national election comity didn’t proclaimed the official results of the election within the time stipulated by the low … and I could go on and on.
On election day you can find on youtube recorded non official people who were at the ballots “helping” their compatriots casting the votes: taking them from the queue to the voting booth, “helping” them filling in (=controlling that they are voting for the list they are coerced/bribed to vote for), and even personally casting the ballots for them while the “helped” person leaving the rum https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcSH69O37M8
Local deputy major in one city was recorded on camera in the library neighbour to the polling station with team (command and control station) with the lists of the all voters with direct contact with the polling station controlling who had voted and the teams of people outside forcing/transporting people to the polling stations.
It was recorded live on national MSM how minster promised the bribe to the village where people voted 100% for Vucic during last election and this time threatening not to vote for him if they didn’t get what they were promised: asphalt road which was expressly built in a few days.
Vucic appeared in the election advertisement and his team literally copied Hitles election campaign slogan “for our children” in 1934/1936.
Aleksandar Vucic: Za nasu decu
Unserren Kindern die Zukunf durch: Adolf Hitler
https://srbin.info/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/slogan-SNS-hitler.jpg
Comparing Vucic and Putin is like comparing Petain and De Gaulle.
Хау јес ноу
No, Vucicevs boots are not here. I am not even a member of his political party. However, if you have been surfing this website on a regular basis, you would have noticed that I have been posting comments on this website for years.
The moment I posted the above comment, I knew what would happen, namely a “liberal” reaction. What you wrote is political rhetoric from the 1990’s, used against President Milosevic by pro-Western liberals of that period. You could not resist the temptation of accusing President Vucic of voter fraud. Indeed. And for whom do you think the bulk of the population would have voted ? For pro-Western liberals, so that the country would be reduced to the level of another Ukraine ? I think not. There is no question that the bulk of voters support President Vucic. As for the current “demonstrations”, what you have are carbon copy methods used in Kiev in 2014, a minority trying to control the majority. The demonstrators are obviously controlled by Western NGO’s and government agencies, who are using liberals, football hooligans and some naive and immature teenagers to create trouble by provoking the police, all in the hope seeing a mass reaction by the authorities and thus creating a basis for a color revolution. A replica of Kiev from 2014. It won’t work. In fact the attempts have been pretty pathetic. You know what the truth is.
I changed my mind and I’ll make few comments on your answer:
1. “I have been posting comments on this website for years.”
This is no argument for anything. Someone can be bot on one issue and regular commentator on the other.
2. ““liberal” reaction” – among my friends I’m far from liberal and presently I would say that my views are closest to Nogo, Dveri but the first choice would be “Dosta je bilo” or more correctly Radulovic and his political views. I’m on the patriotic side of the Serbian political spectra though friends apparently consider me as more extreme and definitely they consider me as as pro-Russian and pro-Putin someone non-Russian could possibly be. I’m following a number of mostly patriotic Russian sites … in Russian and had been following conflict in Ukraine in details since the beginning as well in Syria …
That is how I came to consider comparing Putin and Vucic as an insult to the common sense.
3. “rhetoric from the 1990’s, used against President Milosevic by pro-Western liberals of that period” I smell old Milosevic-supporter here.
I’ve been following the development of conflict in former Yugoslavia first in person for couple of years (Bosnia/Serbia) and later from long distance and I remember 1:st of May celebration (првомајски уранак) by Milosevics media during the fall of Republika Srpska Krajina and exodus of the Srbian people as well as Milosevics complete indifference (I told my chocked mother in Serbia by the phone about fall of Krajina and she wouldn’t believe me, by the way I spoke with her two days before and she was upset by the “hooligans” who were “destroying” Belgrade and worried by the recent corona flair up but got very upset when I mention that happend just 2 weeks after the election so I had to cut that discussion very short).
So please spare me the Milosevic-pathetic. By the way Vulin came out under his wife’s skirt, Vucic under red-vojvoda skirt and majority of the rest of the Vucic’s scum ARE the “pro-Western liberals of that period”.
Vucic’s party is bunch of the thugs, school drop-offs and thief, bottom scrap-run aways from other political parties, literally scum of the earth.
4. “And for whom do you think the bulk of the population would have voted”
Did you deliberately miss the point or are you just trolling?
Doesn’t matter who they would choose to vote for. The election is proven to be complete FRAUD from start to the end and at any level.
By the way you “missed” to comment on the fact that president is by constitution prevented to be on the ballot for anything else and people were voting for him solely in the parliamentary and local elections. On the ballot there were his name only for each end every level.
Hitler at least changed the law (against the constitution) so he could take all the power. Vucic hasn’t even bother to do that and is continuously breaking the law and constitution by managing for instance foreign policy which is exclusively in the governments mandate (by the constitution).
5. “country would be reduced to the level of another Ukraine”
Now is a combination of South American and mid-Asian dictatorships (with rapidly growing death squads to be).
6. “what you have are carbon copy methods used in Kiev in 2014”
Obviously you have either no clue about methods used in Kiev 2014, in Belgrade 2020 or both or you just choose to ignore it because it just doesn’t suit your worldview so best to ignore it.
7. “The demonstrators are obviously controlled by Western NGO’s and government agencies”
No, what is obvious is that from the 6th point above.
8. “minority trying to control the majority”
No, there are people fed up with living in corrupt, lawless society, people mentally (on daily bases all day long) and physically abused (when you stay in the way for some thug in uniform or without), stuck with obviously sick egomaniac who is controlling their lives who is now trying to even lock them up at his whim indefinitely based on the vague pandemic fear that is ideal for such a megalomaniac in power to be abused for its sick need to punish people for his accumulated frustration during his miserable worm-like life where he was mobbed and servant to his pears.
Now when there is economic crises even in the countries traditional refuge for the working class people from Serbia with no light in the tunnel, when hundreds of thousands of Serbian people lost their temporary jobs there and were mostly forced to come back to Serbia.
That it a tinderbox ready to explode and you have a utter idiot and bunch of at best incompetent mediocre people in power who are intentionally or unintentionally pouring fuel on fire. Vucic is by the way constantly playing the card of the rising the animosity in the society turning all kinds of people against each other so he could control them (divide and concur) but the situation is now getting out of the control as it seems.
The only way Vucic knows to govern is holding the very high level of tensions among the population and among his cronies. For him the state IS him.
Unfortunately this could lead to a yet another civil war among Serbian people and many in the patriotic block are suspecting that this is his real plan.
So either you bring up and present your arguments and facts that are relevant and contradicting what I wrote or you’ll be ignored from now on.
Хау јес ноу
“So either you bring up and present your arguments and facts that are relevant and contradicting what I wrote or you’ll be ignored from now on”. My goodness !!! You threatening to ignore me !!! Where were you all these years ? Did somebody prepare you for these “demonstrations”, telling you what to write ? As I wrote above, your comments are political rhetoric from the 1990’s, nothing more.
this argument thread between B.F and Хау јес ноуis at an end and new comments will not be approved … mod
“You threatening to ignore me”
I’m stating the fact. You see “threats” the same way you see liberals, someone been prepared for “demonstrations” and be told what to write.
So this is best you can come up with?
By the way “great” way to troll and avoid discussion on the unconfortable issues which you were at least consistent with in the whole thread (trolling and avoiding bringing up unsubstantiated slanders).
So your feelings are now hurt and you don’t want to play any more?
Then continue posting “comments on this website” for many more years … but drop this thread because you’ll destroy your “reputation” as someone who has “been posting comments on this website for years.”
Looks like Vucic has joined discussion. Who would have thought.
Melotte 22
Thank you for promoting me to the rank of President. Is this the best you can write ? You obviously have no arguments to the initial comment I made above.
B.F.
I regularly see your comments on this blog and I respect them greatly.
However: Vucic did not have 50% voter turnout. At the end of the day, he barely made 30%. This filtered through to the international media before it was modified by the national agencies.
https://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2020&mm=06ⅆ=21&nav_id=108734
https://www.courrier-picard.fr/id93394/article/2020-06-21/serbie-scrutin-legislatif-dans-lombre-de-lhomme-fort-de-belgrade
Why is this important?
Vucic needs a strong mandate, as I believe he is about to recognise independence of KiM. How else do you explain statements like this:
https://mobile.twitter.com/novarsonline/status/1282642998178787328
He has meeting on thursday to go to Brussels. What on earth is he going to tell them?? He does not have the mandate of the people to do anything.
As far as I’m concerned his government can stay as caretaker government for now, until we are better organised and have identified new leadership, as you are right about the opposition.
I honestly don’t understand how can you claim that the turnout was barely 30%, and then post a link that actually proves you wrong.
From your link:
14:08 According to the data of IPSOS Serbia and CESID from the polling stations, the turnout in the elections in Serbia by 2 pm is 26.4 percent.
13:15 According to the data of IPSOS Serbia and CeSID from the polling stations, the turnout in the elections in Serbia by 1 pm is 23.4 percent.
Turnout in today’s parliamentary elections until 1 pm is higher than in the 2016 elections, while it is slightly lower than in the 2017 presidential elections.
So, by 2 pm you have 26.4%. That is basically the middle of the election day with 6 more hours to go.
1. IPSOS and CESID are among most neutral political analytics considered not the source to be trusted. If you said crta then ok.
2. Even by their numbers 2 hours prior to closing of the voting stations the percentage was under 40%. Huge majority of the Vucic/SNS and SPS voters are elderly people and stateemployees (and thereby blackmailed and coersed to vote) who are highly disciplined and vote in the first hours/first half of the voting day or at least before lunch time.
Traditionally the progressive and younger people vote in the end of the day/second half of the day. They mostly boycotted the election this time and even during the elections with highest turn out numbers it was impossible to get 10% people to vote last 2 hours. This time according to the official statistics and even by the mentioned sources which by the way didn’t come out with the percentage (all sources stopped reporting and waited for Vucic to come out with his numbers and then continued to repeat that numbers afterwards). So they manage to get some 11-12 percent of voter turn out during the last 2 hours though the realistic and best case scenario would be around half of that.
So they obviously falsified at least 5-6 percent of the votes but the number is more probably closer to 7-8%. Vucic decided to have more then 50% turn out and then everybody in system were fixing so he could get it.
3. Central election comity started to come out with preliminary results in percentage based on the percentage of the reported voting station results but without ever reporting number of the counted votes and this continued for several days. Normal procedure is to first come up with number of the voters directly after closing of the voting stations. This was delayed for at least 2 days this time while they are frenetically fixing the numbers so they could match the wished numbers.
That is basically how they got caught in the election fraud on most of the places by the DJB. The reason why whey were caught in 1/3 of the voting station only is because of the lack of the resources and the law that stipulates that complaints had to be filled in within 24 hours after the closer of the voting stations. With more resources and/or longer available time proven fraud would be close to the 100%.
I didn’t mention any agency. I was quoting what Serbian girl said and linked to.
If you want crta, here it is:
https://crta.rs/izlaznost-na-parlamentarnim-izborima-izmedju-48-i-49-odsto-manje-nego-2016-godine
You didn’t mention but you wrote about it and now for “my sake” quoting crta too.
Mirroring your answer: I didn’t mention any agency. I was quoting what you wrote and put some real data instead. I didn’t write that the numbers crta is presenting are correct but only commenting on you writing about CESID and IPSIS and just mentioned that crta would be more appropriate.
I didn’t write about CESID and IPSIS, Serbian girl did. It was a quote from the link that SHE posted.
The link that SHE posted does not support HER claim of 30% turnout. That was the point of my reply to HER.
In my reply to you, I only addressed your first point, because in the following text you make a lot of unsubstantiated claims, and I didn’t feel the need to address the unsubstantiated claims. If you want to talk about voting patterns, provide some data to support that. Then we can discuss.
By some reason there is no reply link below Z’s answer so all comment here instead:
“The link that SHE posted does not support HER claim of 30% turnout.”
No, you didn’t. You quoted numbers that are lower then her claims. Some other date from the mentioned agencies would possibly give you right but you didn’t prove anything.
So formally speaking you neither quoted her nor proofed her wrong.
“If you want to talk about voting patterns, provide some data to support that”
It has been widely discussed among the independent and non-snsbiast Serbian political analysts. What I wrote (who is voting in which period of the day and which population category is strongest support base for which option) is common knowledge and widely accepted by the position and opposition analysts. This is also proven by the number of polls dependent and independent for a long number of years.
If we take the data you quoted then voters turn out per hour is in average:
26,4/7=3,8% and 23,4/6=3,9% with tendency to be lower towards the end of the day which is also partially demonstrated by the quoted data (26,4-23,4=3% 14.00->13:15). Also around the lunch voter turn out is lowest and I would say this time is between 14.00-16.00/14.00-17.00/15.00-17.00 pick the one you like the most).
Add together all those things and you’ve got your “provide some data to support that”.
Serbia girl
Let us be reasonable. I took part in the elections, having voted. To state that “Vucic did not have 50 % voter turnout” is incorrect, while stating that “he barely made 30 %” is more than incorrect. The polling stations did indeed see a voters.
@ Хау јес ноу
All right, one last time…
Serbian girl’s claim: 30% turnout
Serbian girl’s link (in support of that claim):
https://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2020&mm=06%E2%85%86=21&nav_id=108734
The data from that link does not support the claim. OK?
As for your “data”, citing some numbers out of your head is not data. It’s just your word and/or opinion. If something is “common knowledge”, than it shouldn’t be too hard to find some graphs, charts or tables from reputable sources and post a link to them.
Signing off.
“I honestly don’t understand how can you claim that the turnout was barely 30%, and then post a link that actually proves you wrong.”
This is your quote.
It doesn’t prove her neither right or wrong whatever your wrote afterwards to cover this claim.
If you really dispute some almost axioms withing electorate statistics and refuses discussion because I didn’t provide you with some links (you are obviously speaking Serbian and is passionate about past elections so this is something you should know and aknowledge if you wan to participate in honest discussion) then whatever I say you would find some reasons which you would claim are preventing you discussing inconvenient issues for your opinion.
By the way those links I would provide would be in Serbian and absolutely worthless for most of the Sakers readers so I won’t bother posting them here.
I don’t know who you mean by “we. SNS | Vucic are in power since 2012. Was there not enough time to form a serious opposition? Before that, DOS|DSS|DS were in power for 12 years, this time is a synonym for self-enrichment and selling out the interests of Serbian citizens. In spite of mass privatizations and, as a result, a large number of unemployed people during this period, the outcry of the so-called patriots did not come. It was also missing when the issue of Kosovo was removed from the UN, then when this stupid formulation concerning the legality of Kosovo’s declaration of independence by Jeremic | Tadic was made. Why were there no mass protests then? I keep hearing this lip service ‘Ne damo Kosovo’ but what are you prepared to do about it?
In the past 4 years the Serbian government has managed to get 18 states to withdraw their recognition of the Kosovo-Albanian declaration of independence. How does this process reconcile with the accusation of treason?
@ B.F.
The only issue I have with your post is that you are ascribing it all to “the liberals”. The Empire has modified its playbook and is increasingly using “useful patriots” for its nefarious goals. It was the ultra-nationalists and not the liberals that were accusing President Putin of betraying Donbass. Same thing here.
Of course, the liberals are always there to gang up on the Target Du Jour, so you end up with a strange combination which would be comical if it wasn’t sad.
Z
Yes, I accept your point of view. We indeed have some “useful patriots” on the scene. However, at the moment I am not sure if they really are patriots, or people impersonating patriots. Time will tell.
The times we are in are marked by a crisis of leadership. re: …” political direction and form requires leadership and program…” indeed it does. “Clear demands, comprehensive and acceptable to all.” .. The art of crafting a United Front among all factions in time of national crisis evidently has been lost.
Is it something ” they” have put into the air waves? or the water? Someone needs to come up with something with which to neutralize the police… like “we know where you live?” a la Serbia? Ok. so that is a Looneylandia
tune.
Jeez, well, with mandatory vaccines from a Gates affiliate, “they” probably are planning to zap Serb genes and make the people into an amorphous mass so it may well be that priest is onto something. So he is wandering the streets shouting warnings? I know the feeling well.
However, I think there is more to be revealed soon in this situation. #Serblivesmatter. thank you so much for your updates and please continue to keep up informed.
“Vučić is getting ready to sign off on Kosovo.”
It’s been 8 years now. If I had a penny every time I heard this sentence, I’d be a millionaire.
He has so far:
* reneged on the election promise to cancel the treasonous acts and protocols of the previous NATO-installed government, instead he stepped up with the wholesale betrayal
* established a hard border with Kosovo*
* ignored hundreds of thousand of displaced Serbs from Kosovo and Methoija
* ignored pleas of the families of the thousands of killed and missing Serbs and other citizens including loyal Albanians
* under his rule the raids of so-called Kosovo* special police in the north of Kosovo and Methoija (one of the Serb enclaves, yes, Serbs in the 21st century live in enclaves in their own country) became a regular event
* got into talks with the criminals and their sponsors who are documented by the UN to have traded in human organs
* violated the Serbian Constitution on numerous occasions including signing of the Brussels Agreements
* upheld the so-called constitutions of terrorist proclaimed Kosovo*
* installed his henchmen in the north of Kosovo and Metohija who rule with terror burning houses and cars of the Serbs who hold different political views
* withdrew all Serbian institutions from the north of Kosovo and Methoija
* upon a request from Merkel, removed anti-tank obstacles from the Mitrovica bridge resulting in an increase of attacks on the Serbs there
* helped Kosovo terrorists get into a number of international organisations including the International Olympic Committee even though they had power of veto
* helped Kosovo terrorists get an international telecom code
* handed over the electro-distribution network and power plants to the terrorist in Kosovo* including Gazivode hydro system, a huge huge asset
* sold of remaining economic assets to NATO exclusively
* sign off on the ultimate NATO agreement granting them access to everything in Serbia no questions asked
* called his own people the worst names imaginable
* glorified Sultan Murat on numerous occasions belittling our saints and heroes
* doubled the amount of foreign debt in 8 years of his rule
* brought in unelected officials such as that Arab guy Lazar Krstic or Prime Minister Burn-a-bich
* under him nepotism, corruption and officials with fake qualifications, even doctorates, became a norm
* total disregard of decency, family values and normalcy in the media
* sold weapons to Ukrainian Nazis and Islamic crazies in Syria
* lied lied and lied…
A politician that is half loyal to his country would have declared a state of occupation and refused to participate in the dialog with the terrorists
Brilliant, Marko. Thank you.
Vucic is following in the footsteps of Milo Đukanović
Indeed he is, turning into an Ustasha himself. Or, rather has been turning into one, essentially, for quite some time now.
Obviously, he can’t afford to do it as openly as the “eternal” Djukanovic, he can’t just invent a new nationality and declare Serbs are enemies of Serbia.
But look at what he does, not at what he says.
He is just another servant of some very sick people. And they will flush him down the toilet as soon as they dont need him anymore.
Djukanovic made a deal with NATO. They were going to get him for drug trafficking and other crimes so he followed orders like a little quisling that he is. When they voted to split with Serbia all Albanians in the US and Canada were allowed to vote but not the Montenegrins living in Serbia where there are more of them there than in Montenegro.
Can somebody make that Vucic’s bot “Z” who is bitchng about not being billionaire to read Marko’s post at least one time. Not a million times. Although it would be right punishment.
And yet, people still voted for him decisively. So, I see three possibilities here:
1. Serbian people are too stupid to see what’s going on…or
2. Serbian people don’t care about these issues…or
3. You are misinterpreting the reality
No they did not, people absolutely did not vote for him decisively – according to official government figures somewhere around 50% of the electorate turned out & on that alleged 50% Vucic’s party (SNS) obtained around 60% of the vote there about. If their figures are accurate, they barely managed to gain 25% of the total electorate. But if you know anything about Serbian elections – judging by your comment you do not – elections there are among the most fraudulent in the world, & this most recent election was the most rigged in Serbia’s recent parliamentary history. Those that vote for Vucic do so out of self-interest or outright coercion &/or bribery, of which there are countless examples. The electoral register is notoriously falsified, there are anywhere between 500,000 to 1 million falsely registered voters, persons who are either deceased, emigrated long ago, or reside in Kosovo-Metohija where electoral fraud & rigging has been a notorious practise since Milosevic’s days. I have joked with my own mother who emigrated from what was Yugoslavia decades ago, that she has probably voted in every election since 1991, without knowing it. The people who most enthusiastically support Vucic are those who are employed within the public sector, government institutions, or private contractors that survive on government procurement – that is it. He has no genuine/authentic support to speak of & is widely reviled for the utterly distasteful mentally unbalanced tin pot dictator that he is. The passivity that has plagued Serbia for years is not exclusive to Serbia, it is a problem throughout the world, but anyone familiar with what has been happening in Serbia for the past 30 years would understand – the country has been devastated economically, not to mention effects of war. Serbia is naturally an incredibly wealthy country, but to travel out to rural areas people who still live in villages (selo) reside in Third World conditions, the country has been robbed blind.
decisively
/dɪˈsʌɪsɪvli/
adverb
1. in a manner that settles an issue convincingly or produces a definite result.
In most parliamentary democracies, gaining 25% of the total electorate is more than enough to claim a decisive victory (a.k.a. form the government).
Speculating about “fraudulent elections” is just that – a speculation.
It is not, the DJB party led by Sasa Radulovic has proven it, checking the contents of the ballot boxes vs the official counts and finding missing or surplus votes all over the place.
But they obviously getting precious little media space, and the institutions that are responsible for checking and sanctioning electoral fraud are under Vucic’s control.
We are talking MASSIVE electoral fraud here.
If you don’t trust local institutions, go international. There must be SOME institutions that you trust.
We are talking ALLEGED electoral fraud here.
Complain to who? NATO, EU or OSCE? They installed him. Russia is not getting involved for some reason. Probably because they only help those that haven’t given up. I think majority of Serbs have given up.
No, it’s more than speculation. We have the Administrative Court ruling which had accepted 175 complaints by one political party. The Electoral Commission has refused to open the ballot bags and has determined the results solely on the basis of voter ballot accounts. The whole voting and voting counting process has been plagued by irregularities.
Not to mention the electoral law was changed DURING the electoral process.
Every election is plagued with some irregularities. It’s a matter of scale and significance. If there is a massive fraud, it shouldn’t be too hard to prove.
Until there is some actual evidence, I’m going to use simple logic. Since everybody and their grandmother (especially the grandmother) knew that Vucic was going to win these elections, why would he need to resort to rigging?
As it happens, even I heard some rumors. The rumor was that SNS was helping some opposition parties with signature acquisitions. Why? Because Vucic would rather have weak opposition in the parliament than on the streets. That’s why he even lowered the census to 3%. Turns out that even that was too high.
A couple of weeks ago I was inclined to believe the elections were largely fair and the opposition has no one to blame but themselves for doing so poorly, however, after examining the problem more closely, I arrived at a different conclusion.
The results are suspicious for a number of reasons, we don’t see such results in democratic countries. Vucic’s former patron and political ‘father’, Vojislav Seselj has said these results are not possible in a democratic system.
As for fraud not being too hard to prove, I’m afraid it is incredibly hard to prove because of the situation in Serbia. I previously stated institutions aren’t functioning, the justice system is virtually paralyzed and judges are afraid to go against the regime or are outright loyal to them; it’s the same story with the Electoral Commission.
In a country with a barely functioning judiciary under political control, election fraud is anything but easy to prove.
We aren’t in Vucic’s mind, nor do we know his motives, or what the man wants or doesn’t want. All that he has been doing so far demonstrates his contempt for institutions: he has humiliated the parliament and turned it into a stage for cheap demagoguery and political propaganda. We have such individuals in the government as Vulin (Minister of Defense no less – a clear sign of contempt for the army and shows what Vucic thinks of the military) then it hardly matters in regard to the decision-making process, as Vucic makes all decisions personally. We don’t know who he consults before making them, not anyone in Serbia, for sure.
Mairon:
We have such individuals in the government as Vulin (Minister of Defense no less – a clear sign of contempt for the army and shows what Vucic thinks of the military)
Please don’t be unfair to the director of the BIA (State protection agency similar to NSA in USA and ФСБ in Russia) ceramics Gasic (ceramics is his primary profession) and forget to mention him too.
By the way GREAT comment/answer :)
Removed – stop attacking other commenters – or further comments will go to trash. Mod.
Let’s use you math against you.
All 3 parliamentarian party makes about 74%. They are willing to make big coalition and I expect that to happen. So we have 26% people rest. That is 13% (50% turnout)
If we remove minorities, old people and children. It looks like that ALL people who oppose Vucic are physically there, protesting.
Now I understand why you need to import protesters from other countries.
The reason why this miniature opposition can be so laud is because they are using Soros loudspeakers.
My apology for name calling, I couldn’t resist and anyway, name calling is prevailing argument in their post
Well said Marko,
* Responsible for death of elite unit in unnecessary Helicopter death for political opportunity (2015)
* Employed War Criminal Tony Blair as a consultant to his government
* Invited War Criminal Gerhard Schröder to SNS party function (2017)
* Involved in arms trafficking in Lybia resulting in deaths of Ambassador and staff (2016)
* Donated $2 million dollars to Clinton Foundation prior to 2016 US Elections
* Donated $1 million to Bosniak Government in Srebrenica after surviving lynching during Potocari Memorial visit (2015) on top of total of $6 million EUR sent to that municipality, reports of millions gone missing?
* Ran dirty media campaign against Serbian political figure in Kosovo & Metohija Oliver Ivanovic who was gunned down in K. Mitrovica under suspicious circumstances (2018) Later employing his widow to a position in his party apparatus…
Not to mention endless other scandals such as Obrenovac floods, Savamala, Jovanica, Gay Pride Parade where brother was assaulted by police…
The list is as long as his 8 years of government!!!
“Employed War Criminal Tony Blair as a consultant to his government” If this is true this is unforgivable.
I believe it was an idea that was circulated in the early days of his coming to power when he needed western support to survive. It never really materialized except as a convenient talking point for Vucic haters.
Poor Vucic has haters, this innocent man who employs an army of (badly) paid internet trolls to spam comment sections with his propaganda and saturates the media scene with the most primitive propaganda and smear campaigns imaginable.
Blair was his advisor for a time, to be more exact, the Serbian govt. cooperated with his organization. Vucic himself spoke about it publicly.
“U vreme kada je Aleksandar Vučić bio premijer Vlada Srbije je započela saradnju sa Tonijem Blerom, odnosno sa njegovom tadašnjom organizacijom „Toni Bler asošijets“, koja je stajala iza projekta Deliviri junit.
Nakon što je novi Institut za globalne promene Tonija Blera raspisao konkurs za dva viša savetnika u Vladi Srbije, premijerka Ana Brnabić odgovarajući na pitanje Insajdera izjavila je da se za usluge Blerovog instituta ni dinar ne izdvaja iz budžeta i da oni rade volonterski. Ona je navela da je angažovanje Blerovog instituta u formi „deliviri junita“ počelo u vreme tadašnjeg premijera Aleksandra Vučića, a da je ona samo nastavila tu praksu.”
https://kossev.info/vucic-na-pitanje-insajdera-nisam-vas-lagao-ni-ja-ni-brnabic-nemamo-nikakav-ugovor-sa-blerovim-institutom/
It hardly matters, the PM is a former USAID worker, and also worked with NALED.
https://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nacionalna_alijansa_za_lokalni_ekonomski_razvoj
Sorry about that term “Vucic haters”. It’s too adversarial and possibly incorrect. “Vucic detractors” would probably be more appropriate.
So, Serbian government had some involvement in some project that was backed by some British company that had some relation to Tony Blair. That’s a far cry from “Employing War Criminal Tony Blair as a consultant”.
On a scale of 1 – 10 for relevance, this gets about 0,5 in my book.
Personally I don’t care about Blair being his adviser, it’s not like that’s the only negative thing about Vucic and his regime. He and his brother being involved with criminal structures and hiring thugs, various shady people in civilian clothes, and using the parliament building to detain those young folks they arrested and beat up is quite enough. Nobody has humiliated the parliament in this manner in Serbian history.
Don’t bother.
Z is totally ignoring those two list above full of inconvenient facts for his arguments about Vucic=Putin and is now turning to the “then people are stupid”-false irony to prove his point.
In the post to B.F. Z probably refers to you (and me and everybody else who dares to question his fürer) indirectly by “useful patriot” poor analogy to “useful idiots” in line with rest of mediocre sns-inteligencia.
…..and still, HUGE majority of people in Serbia voted for him including HUGE majority of Serbs who actually LIVE in Kosovo.
Only job any politician has is to make sure that life of the people who elected him is getting better.
Vucic is doing just that. Who is helping him to achieve that? Banksters, Rusia, China?…who cares.
That’s why I don’t like people like Johny..and Marko, they don’t l care about people in Serbia (disappointed in the Saker too)
Kosovo problem can’t be resolved without big war, until then, at least what you can do is to make life of people there as good as possible.
I’m not fun of him at all (specially when he accepted Tony Blair for “adviser”), but I’m looking at results of his years in power and I’m impressed.
“HUGE majority of people in Serbia voted for him including HUGE majority of Serbs who actually LIVE in Kosovo.”
ad homiem removed … mod
Serbian people in Kosovo AND METOHIJA were led literally like ships to the polling stations. People there are totally dependent on the income to state and are coerced first to vote and then to vote for Vucic.
The only Serbian leader (Oliver Ivanovic) who dared to oppose him was assassinated.
Votes are not counted on the place but first transported for 50-60 kilometers unsupervised to two cities in central Serbia where they are counted.
And surprise … “HUGE majority of people … voted for him… Serbs who actually LIVE in Kosovo”
This is Color Revolution attempt.
Color Revolution was my first thought too.
I can not really evaluate what’s going on there now because I don’t know enough about the Serbian and Serbian / Kosovo Situation. But as far as I know, Vucic has always emphasized, that he will not give up the friendly relations with Russia. Something that EU/NATO do not like.
Same as in Belarus. Pompeo was in Minsk and the situation with Russia is deteriorating.
And remember Ukraine. Quite understandable, that the people wanted to get rid of Yanukovic. But now look what they have got in return.
Maybe this all really started out as a grassroots movement. But EU/NATO and the likes will be eager to use this situation to ‘set things right’ according to their wishes.
The use of the term ‘dictator’ is a dead giveaway. All a ‘dictator’ can do is resign and make way for a true ‘democratic’ leader. Maybe the author of this piece could list potential candidates? Come on, who could replace Vucic?
From just over a year ago:
SERBIA: In Face of Violent Foreign-Backed ‘Color’ Protests, Vucic SMACKS DOWN Calls for ‘Early Elections’
https://www.fort-russ.com/2019/03/serbia-in-face-of-violent-foreign-backed-color-protests-vucic-smacks-down-calls-for-early-elections/
The Stench of Color Revolution in Serbia
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2019/03/08/stench-color-revolution-serbia.html
Serbian Army Denounces any Coup-Attempts, Stands with Supreme Commander Vucic
https://www.fort-russ.com/2019/04/major-serbian-army-denounces-any-coup-attempts-stands-with-supreme-commander-vucic/
For those too young to remember the American attack in 1999, or those confused by western propaganda, here is a short, shocking summary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsRkqnFn8DA
Oh and I nearly forgot.
The patriarch of the Serbian Orthodox church, has not uttered a single word about the plain as daylight tyranny and wanton brutality on display since Monday. It has been almost a week now.
Not. A. Single. Word.
Back in 2014 in Crimea – a leader soon emerged to direct the crowd and give a coherent message.
Deposit this article I haven’t got a clue what this is about.
There has just been an election and the same person was elected.
The people knowing his policies and behaviour elected him.
Coming out on the streets because they are fed up with lockdown is what we have seen in the UK/ USA/ Germany / France / Netherlands…..
If the Serbs were on the street about Kosovo – then I would this this was something. That they have finally got their pride back!!!!!
Vucic is negotiating right now – what are the Serbian people saying – I don’t get any sense that they actually care anymore about this.
This mess on the streets what is it?
Marko is getting too excited. The first article had some semblance of truth. This one is just a rant that sounds exactly like opposition that did not vote and was booted out by protestants. Please do not spoil the image you created. From what I remember protests were aimed at announced decision to impose strict curfew. On the first day of protest , government backed off. Requests about bringing the government and Vucic down came from those who tried to take over protests. my sources are telling me that today’s protests went peacefully. Kids did not want corona induced curfew and they got it. There is still restriction to number of people being together, which nobody is enforcing.
What seems to be the problem now? Protestants got the main request – government backed off strict curfew. The rest of corona related rules are not enforced, people can ignore them on own risk. I myself am a corona skeptic but color revolution is not the answer. Is Serbian government the only one requesting corona rules? Approach all over the world is the same – China, Italy, Germany, Russia and almost everybody else. Please do not pull Swedish and Belarusian examples.
If there is a global conspiracy with vaccines and all, what makes you think that any government in the world, especially Serbian is free to do what they please? Wishful thinking is one thing, reality is different.
We still have reasons to at least believe that the virus is hyped up. we think governments are lying about numbers of sickened and dead people. That is why kids go out with message “we don’t believe you, see, we are not catching the virus and we are not dying en mass, contrary to what we are told by governments and media”. On the other side, government can claim that Serbia has extremely low numbers of sick and dead people due to virus, because of the measures they imposed. Now youth in Serbia is free to test the hypothesis about danger to younger population. If young and healthy people suddenly start falling ill, heavily ill, no need to die, we will soon all know about that, not from governments but from people around us. If we begin to know personally somebody young that caught the virus and barely made it, we will know and adjust our behavior. If nothing happens, then the whole story about virus will be fall apart.
I personally know people who died at the time of corona. All of them old and already with fragile health. It hurts to loose someone dear and close, but that just does not mean we will all catch the virus and die. I know some younger people, not that young, between age 40 and 50 who caught the virus and lived to talk about it. The picture was not pretty at all. So the virus is real. Perhaps not that contagious as they would like us to believe.
It is not easy to see statistics on number of people dying for medical reasons on any given day, before corona. If we know those numbers, we can correctly judge the need for extreme measures. If number of deaths attributed to corona is significantly larger that what is “normal” then there is good reason to do something about it. In Serbia, average number of people to die on any given day due to illness is about 350 persons per day, (Zavod za Statistiku Srbije, their web site) with variations, some trims it can be 250 or 400. So, if daily variation is plus minus 50 peopled dying from all medical causes, then it would take increase in deaths per day much bigger than 3.5 per day on average due to corona. If we count say 50 or more deaths almost every day, attributed to corona, then we have statistical reason for extra measures. Until then, it is just like regular flu.
However, it takes knowledge of statistics and really cold blooded emotionally free approach. Doctors a worried because they know what cold happen if situation gets out of hands. Beside very old and a,ready sick, doctors and nurses are catching corona and dying of it, young or old, no difference, in statistically significant numbers. General public may not know that much about medical staff dying, but it is a sad and bitter truth. If you live in Serbia, just ask around. Doctors don’t know enough about the virus, don’t know how to treat it efficiently and are rightly scared of what might happen. The rest of us, see more political evil games played with corona globally.
This is definitely not the time to bring down governments because they lie. politicians always lie, always have and always will. revolutions may bring benefits to common people, but on the long run. At the time of the revolution, the country is anything but safe. So why not let everybody do their jobs – politicians lying and being corrupted, doctors worried and scared trying to do their best, the rest of us minding our own business. Radical change at this moment is no good for anybody.
Let’s leave kids alone. They do not believe the danger, and are willing to take the risk. If they are right, all is well, If they start falling sick, hopefully it does not cause lots of carnage, and we will change our minds.
I promise not to write anything for some time and not go into arguments and discussions pro and con. Everybody is entitled to what they think, just please no revolutions, colored or colorless at this moment. We are not out of the woods yet.
This is definitely not the time to bring down governments because they lie. politicians always lie, always have and always will. revolutions may bring benefits to common people, but on the long run. At the time of the revolution, the country is anything but safe. So why not let everybody do their jobs – politicians lying and being corrupted, doctors worried and scared trying to do their best, the rest of us minding our own business. Radical change at this moment is no good for anybody.
@ What if
– Sir, I entirely agree with your statement [about politicians and revolution], and also that doctors do not know much about virus [firsthand experience and conversation with colleagues plus also Internet info]. The health care system in Serbia is on the verge of collapse, but politicians have never cared much for us, they regarded doctors [and nurses] as preservatives/condoms, to be used in case of need and discarded after the need fades away. Protesters also do not care much for pandemia,[yes, they do not believe in danger] but if the need arises, they will of course ask for medical aid immediately. My good colleague, dr Lazic, a surgeon from Nish, a man of immense personal integrity and excellent war surgeon, passed away from the viral complications just a month before due retirement.
Once again, the author of the article , for reasons known to him, puts forward unsubstantial statements. My belief is that his goals are sinister, and this article, as well as the previous one, should be taken with much more than a grain of salt.
To the author and people more knowlgedable than me: One of the theories I heard on alternative sites was that Vučić appears to be a friend of Putin, which bears for NATO the risk that he might change sides and seek alliance with Russia. The riots would be pushed by the globalist Deep State to remove him from office and thwart the possible alliance. I am not sure about this – why wait with this until after the election? In the US the riots start well before November. But I am also not familiar with his political stance – what would support such a theory, and what would contradict it?
Officially, Vučić wants Serbia to be neutral and he is not likely to change that stance anytime soon. In reality, he is already more friendly with Russia and China than with the West in all measurable parameters that matter (strategic investments like energy and infrastructure, military cooperation, etc.).
As for the timing of the “uprising”, most color revolutions to date happened after some elections. The US is not a good example. Think Serbia 2000, Georgia, Ukraine, etc. That is the time when the side that lost is most energized and when the claims of “fraudulent elections” can best be utilized.
Those are publicly proclaimed goals but have no basis in fact or reality. Vucic has done the exact opposite, he has denied the Russian request to grant the Russian Humanitarian Center in South Serbia diplomatic status, the same diplomatic status NATO officials in Serbia have. The Serbian army has carried out more exercises with NATO than with Russia.
A few months ago there was even a Russian spy affair after a Russian spy was allegedly caught trying to extract information from a minor intelligence official. These are all facts, but people who, for certain reasons, are determined to defend Vucic, prefer not to look at these facts.
On another note, Serbia has never been so humiliated as a country as under Vucic. He has destroyed all the institutions and centralized power in his hands, to the point that a farmer in a remote village has to beg him to fix the road, increase the purchase price of some fruit, or whatnot. There are no functioning institutions, Vucic handles everything and brags how he alone can make all the decisions. I fully expect him to teach factory workers how to produce screws because, without him, nobody in this country would know how to lift a hand and do the simplest of tasks.
Let’s make no mistake, the people who provoke color revolutions are now all backing Vucic and working for his benefit.
You forgot to mention Tony Blair.
I look at all the facts and try to weigh their relevance. In my opinion, Vucic is the best vehicle we have for Eurasian integration and fending off The Empire (shocking, I know).
Time will tell.
Frankly, it’s appalling to me that you may think so. His regime is up to their elbows in criminal, the institutions are non-existent and he has personalized all power. Even publicly, Vucic is pro-EU. My opinion is that we are witnessing the first stage of him turning into Djukanovic – the goal from the very start but one they could not achieve quickly or easily.
Nobody dreamed of Montenegro being in NATO and anti-Serbian to the core, as well as renouncing its history and adopting a new identity. Yet that is a fact today.
Vucic and his clique will bring calamity to the state and people.
That is absolutely hillarious – Vucic is the best vehicle for Eurasian integration, whilst he tells you that he is for Euro-Atlantic integration – but you know better than him what he actually really wants. Interesting…… Vucic was imposed by the west, backed by the west & serves the west, that is it, he has no interest in Russia or China or Eurasian integration. None whatsoever, he is in love with Germany.
I forced myself to see his interview on private propaganda TV tonight, he said the ‘Kosovo situation is nearly hopeless.’ Not the first nor the last statement in this spirit, he’s spreading defeatism and climate in which it will be easier for people to surrender Serbia’s territory.
Though this is by no means anything new, he’s been preparing people for this for years now.
Mairon
Please stop it.
Lets discuss this issue when, or rather IF, something actually happens.
Can I take from your comment that you trust *everything* that Vucic says?
Well, I don’t. After all, he is a politician.
(The post is addressed to Srbalj. Sorry for the confusion.)
One more thing, lest we forget:
Europe is part of Eurasia. It’s in the name.
How about the Jajinci affair where Vucic found “weapons” used in the alleged attempted coup in Montenigeria giving the Ustashi regime there an alibi for a fictional Russian conspiracy illegally joining NATO? Vucic is following exactly the same script. Which is of no surprise as the script writer is the same – Vladimir Beba Popovic and Darko Trifunovic. Vucic is a plague but the problem is that his opposition is the same.
At every event, he stands next to Putin which gives me hope that this is not just for show but something positive will rub off.
At the moment it is Vucic that represent Serbia. Putin stands next to Serbia not to Vucic. The Moscow military parade commentator introduced the Serbs marching as members of the nation that were the first in the world/Europe to rise up against the Nazis with two anti-Nazi movements. That is why Putin stands next Serbia.
Good point Marko. Reading a recently published book from Belgrade “Ratni Dnevnik Lazara Trklje 1941-1944 -Otkrivena Istina. A very interesting book as Lazar documents events all over Yugoslavia except Slovenia. He writes that initially chetniks, partisans, left-wing Croats, and Muslims, as well as many Jews, formed resistance groups in many parts of Yu.. Don’t forget the Greeks were already fighting against the Italians at the same time as the Serbs.
That might explain why Putin stands next to Vucic, but it does not explain why Vucic stands next to Putin.
Vucic hopes that people will see it as Putin’s approval of him rather than Putin standing by Serbia. Its called visual misrepresentation.
Well, Ceausescu wasn’t wrong indicating that he felt victim of a putsch. One of the least well understand colour revolutions in the last 30 years. ARTE (franco-german public broadcasting) did an insightful documentary about it. You can find it under ‘Checkmate – Strategy of a Revolution’ on Youtube.
Fully correct.
Ceausescu did fall due to his mistakenly put trust in the Securitate to exclusively manage the import-export activities of the country in the 80’s. This was after he decided to repay fully in the shortest time the external debt with interest. That was the moment when the banksters started to plot his demise, suddenly the then revered President in the west being transformed in the bloody dictator. He was deluded by the Securitate flunkies that all was well in the country, despite exporting everything that was saleable. A major factor towards his demise was also his personalty cult which permeated the population’s life, while suffering from all kinds of shortcomings. Sitting over a huge stash of money in secret accounts the Securitate has started to value money over everything, and sold out for 30 greenbacks (a lot more actually). Still today the former(?) Securitate (infested by Mossad, CIA, BND, etc.) is controlling almost every aspect through front economic entities, and covered agents which infest every aspect of justice, social, political, cultural and economic life.
Vucic has the support of Trump and Putin for what he is doing. We are going at the moment to the division of Kosmet, where the Serbs will get only 4 municipalities like what Hitler once gave them.The goal is to take the history of a rebellious free people and create from it an amorphous obedient mass like the other Mamon invertebrates are. Anglo-American services including the BND together with Russian and Serbian global civil services are working on this plan. Economic ties are more important to the Kremlin than a new war with Europe. Serbia no longer has its military service to protect borders, GRU is stumbled all the time. Vucic is also supported by both Merkel and Macron, those under Vatican control that do not allow Serbs to gain anything of Kosmet. They would rather give serbian history to the Albanians as a muslim nation created in the 20th century from several ethnic groups, including Islamized Serbs.
Take a good look at Sputnik’s comments on this topic and RT, which are media under the influence of the Kremlin. Also blog Prof Panarina, who is a regime man and talks about the coloured revolution in Serbia and a future union in the Balkans. Another internationalist. Also Flores from Fort Ros. All international media and interests connected to Kremlin. Serbs, like Russians, are forbidden by internationals to have a nation-state. If they want it, they will get what they were given after the Berlin Congress. Narrow Serbia. The Serbs are a colony and have no allies among the great powers …… or they are slaughtered by blacks or forced to coexist with the slaughterers by red internationalists. The Russian people can not get their full freedom but also live in a semi-colonial world lead by the Kudrin-Sreder partnership. The Black and Red (Fascist – Communist) International of Globalism. Only the yellow line of Soros is weakened on global path. Modified version of Fraternity, Egality, Liberty.
Sorry, Djole, this ‘Vucic is supported by Trump and Putin’ is the kind of rhetoric we see in our tabloid media. Trump most likely wouldn’t be able to find Serbia on the map and Kosovo is far from being high on his agenda. Biden and his clique are far more interested in Serbia and Serbs, due to their historic involvement in the region.
The facts are in the statements and actions of both the Russian and American leadership. Whether you don’t want to see or hear it…..is your business. Let me remind you of Grenel’s statements and Russia’s “acceptance of everything that suits the Serbian government”. Keep dreaming, waiting for Putin and Trump “sovereignist”.
Thanks for the regular updates as things develop. Its become obvious by the repression and brutality that the regime is on the verge of capitulating to the US/EU demands towards the breakaway province of Kosovo, judging by the media spin that its a Russian plot against Vucic and Kosovo media reporting on Biden and Macron suggesting a resolution by end of the year…? Hopefully the masses don’t give in an if reports of mutiny in sections of the armed forces ring true than hopefully a change of government can be made before its too late… NEMA PREDAJE!!!
Is this just me, or these “leaderless and spontaneous protests”looks remarkably similar to the Euromaidan over six years ago?
The winds have definitely turned for Vucic. He tried to fashion himself as the hero of the pandemic, the strong Serbian leader, courted by both East and West.
Now his lies are tripping him up: the number of Covid infected, the number of available espirators, the number of voters who turned out in the last election..everything is questioned.
And twitter is full of videos of his thugs, policemen & hooligans beating up the population.
He will spend the rest of his mandate defending and justifying himself. A lame duck president who will govern as a caretaker from now on. I doubt there will be any major decisions from this administration. That is a good thing. We have gained time. It is our enemies who are in a hurry.
No “spontaneous rebellion” will ever succeed. None has ever succeeded. They are always either not spontaneous, but carefully paid for and arranged, or else they are hijacked at an early stage by those with the financial and political power to take them over and use them. Serbia is not only no different, these protests have all the hallmarks of being a bought and paid for colour revolution. That Vucic is scum makes no difference to that.
”I dont know but the revolution in Hungry of 1956 is consdiered spontaneous and successful but for the Soviet invasion the revolution could not defend against”
I dont understand the insistance on ‘essential’ political vanguard parties at all. where is that insitance coming from – in terms of source of social experience – history… and why?
this is seems a paradox. but it is not. the issue is clear and obvious to me!
the very basic nature of politics is parasitic! that is as clear as day! why must society run the risk all the time..forever perhaps!… that a political party may or may not sell out, may or may not corrupt the process?
how does society guarantee a political party..even if it begins honestly.. not to turn at some point and corrupt the situation?
what sort of limitation, control, organization that can be created, thought out and implemented, to put on politics to ensure the party-ies stay honest?
once an essential nature of political parties is admitted what sort of negotiationts will take place with them–between the parties and the people..what kinds of conditions will the ‘essential’ political parties exert on society..what will society have to pay for them?
and what about evolutionary, existential social conditions.. the constanrt social changes wrought by technological advance that carries with it vast social potential for revolutionary social change, and dangers to society all the time..how revelent are political parties as we know them remain for social functioning on a day like this day for eg?
are political parties as we have known them for 2 centuries useful right now, userful for positive social advance in the face of basic and revolutionary technological change? and if they are so useufl why aren’t they right now..they have had a long tyime to prepare?
global society is in a shambles and the political parties are part of the cause not or solutions anywhere
political parties are failed everywhere, organized against the general interest. apart from Cuba and here and there…where else are political parties funtioning in the general interest? when has that been the case every since the evolution of political parties?
if we are to calculate the positive runctioning og poliotical parties over their span, relative to the general interest, we would get a relationship of something like 85 to 15% ,in which political corruption, massive exploitation and harm to populations, where parties in power served the interest of empire, corporations, elitism etc.
where is the need for political parties at this stage of human evolution?
none that I can see!
what would the parties do when it comes to creative ways that address the peoples interest in the application of the advanced technologies now available – so that jobs are maintained and expanded, the maintainance of fuly functioning societ in the general interest and not some truncation, created to meet capitalist interest that results in all manner of distrution of the peoples interest, and the people themselves?
the advanced technologies of this day is finding expression in social control of masses of people, whole nations and regions of the world. in fact corporate power as we know it is bent on world control, and the stage of technological advance in elitist control, enhances their chances of regime changes everywhere, to gain this goal of global control…which means all manner of unimaginable routine existential social evil for ordinary people.
and the political parties are the corporate handmaidens in this project
how in heavens name is society going to solve the parisitism of party politics? it is a reality that politicians are unproductive materially and can make real money only in control of the organized official structure of society and bend that structure always to suit their greed. and the opportunity to do so attracts to politics the worst sorts of human beings…criminal types, exploiters, corrupters and killers of all sorts – small and larger all the way up to genociders of population of humans..for money land, water etc… what we call profits
no matter! the system, capitalism, socilism, communism.. whatever, politics is its own source of corruption, its own driver of exploitation society, no matter what orgainzational tangent the society isoff on. organized party politics is always exploitative, supressive and controlling of the people for the purpose of their exploitation. that is the only way parisitc politics can ensure itself, guarantee its future etc
that is the experience we have had for a long time with politics, in its modern party form for what 200 years?
what more do we need to decide on the nature of party politics? nothing! politics and politicians have ‘failed’
rather betrayed their fake, lying calling almost all the time.
the most simple, but most extreme response of the people would be to go out there and kill all the coporations and those who own them… eliminate the elite, imprison and try all the politicians in the courts for their crimes against humanity…and I dont care what they do with them when found guilty
creating the popular democracy at the same time without political parties and their puppet masters..only the problems of democrfacy to deal with by the people thereafter. that would end immediately the proboem of the politician. the people would be free to carry on without the urgent fear of of overthrow and the restting of political control by the political parasites
that at this point seems the only way to deal with the this seeming paradox of the political parties. as i mentioned it is no paradox at all for the equation is clear…parasites creates parisitism, which results in the expploitation of society.
but those who keep insisting there must be political parties, making what is a silly din, must be addressed. and this is one way I think they and their question can be addressed..by targeting the truth about politics and the politicl class..and being totlly open-mided about it, standing to be corrected if wrong.. to accept being right…to expand understanding of politics/society all the time to know whats right and wrong to make always the most informed of decisions.
these are no pight decisions
the real issue is the nature of politics opposed to the real social basic.. i.e ..that what the people do in general popular action is basic in society. if it stands its the law..not the constitutions.. which are elitist documents. the politics that those who insist on the party, is really always the undoing of the popular interest when effected by the people. that is due to the consistent nature of parasitic politics relative to the popular interest
the fact is that all society has to find ways to eliminate all parasitic social functions…of which politics is the second most destructive after capitalist exploitation..for the price society pays and wastes for them is massive social dysfunction, as well as solid material resources..a price on all levels, society cannot afford continuously
that ought to be obvious by now. the elimination of those parasitic functions are a challenge society must accept and win..no more jails, police of a different sort relevant to the needs of any day we are still here here..lf at all: ultimtely the point is to end up with no police at all, or armies – military etc
for that to take place society must take care of all its citizens by ending expploitation, developing accurate ideas of life and livng by them..that is underpinning all would be cause and effect. if we eant the best effecft to live in we must live accordingly.
humanity makes it own reality and that ought to be obvious by now also. nature is the source of all, vast and containg factors we do not know of tht are surely determinatoive on macro scales. but humans know enough already on earth to understand the effects of what we do and their consequences.
and that understanding gives us solid knowledge of nature so far gvinh u the truth of csuse and effect and to the extent that we know we cdan help to creat the conditions for the best life we can make globally..and on-going, better as we learn more and more and more… of nature.
by my understanding there is only humans and nature which also contains all other life forms. there is no god at all-rather the gods we have been and are taught exist somewhere! they do not exist at all. the gods and their belief systems – Religions- are a content consciously created by some humans and inserted between all humans and nature, to faciliate social control andf the exploitation of the human population, that is the cause of an extraordianry quantity of human dysfunction
who knows what nature has in store, what it has wrought in its endless time. so there may be a god of some sort but more likely forms of existence relative to what exists.
we should not be looking for gods really but factors like what Dr Rupert Sheldrake describes relative to human memory, located in the electrical cloud generated by the human body not in the mind… and the extension of that..what it may really mean in existencre.
that is where I would look anyway..for, it is relative not fantastic
but the bureaucracies must go, political parties first, now, immediately, the police and armies toned down until we arrive at human social relations based on popular democracy..in which government is for the people by the people, all needs are met, education is truthful and helps to produce shaping social relations that produce people aware of the truth of human origins up to current point, of human history, and what we have done to bring humans together for…
it is clear that humanity cannot survive but in popular democracy, and cooperative effort on earth, in response to natural, existential dictat
NATO (via Rasmussen) and The Last Tyrant in Europe (TM) (November 2018)
“He stated that Belarus is not a democratic state now, but it should move in this direction “like” Ukraine and Georgia. Rasmussen stated that it’s highly likely some opposition forces appear in the country that will force it to become “democratic”.
https://southfront.org/ex-nato-secretary-says-us-led-military-bloc-would-like-to-see-ukraine-style-changes-in-belarus/
Every leader of a non-NATO-aligned or pro-Russian country is a ‘dictator’ or ‘tyrant’. The game is so obvious. The regime changers always follow the same playbook. Another clue is a never-ending set of demands. If a leader agrees to one demand, it will be immediately followed by another and on and on.
You know that quantity cannot possibly make up for quality right?
But you guys are definitely creating a lot of clutter, I’ll give you that.
my commentary is always clutter and I apologise. I wish the Saker had a facility to come back and edit posts, correct typos etc., but he does not. for me it is a struggle just to get it down – what I want to say. I am not a teenager..yet so many typos on my part. Pheeew!.
the mods put up some of my commentary so I guess what they chose to put up, has some
minimum value.
but I would not criticize this board for clutter! how else could it be..lots of qualified talented writers deliberately creating clutter for the Saker..or a bunch of people with levels of smarts, clear enough, but not necedssarily great writing skills..but fcommentary from people full of interest generally in global society, of whom most would like the world to be better run than it is..may even sacrifice for that purpose should opportunity arise?
whats there to critisize..especially for something that does not prevent anyone capable of reading all that is commented on any issue here. criticism of clutter is an elitist criticism from someone who would probably prefer exquisitely done, prefectly written propaganda, rather than to get down and dirty with the Polloi in these pages
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Hi Folks – please get back on topic or take this conversation to the MDC. Thanx. The Mod.
but Rasmussen isnt calling Vucic a tyrant.
The people are.
that’s the difference.