First, we have the manner in which the Americans have been preparing the G20 summit. As we all know, in diplomacy actions count as much, or even more, than words. Here are just a few of the actions recently taken by the Americans in preparation for the G20 summit and Trump’s first meeting with Putin (in no particular order):
- The US rejected the joint Russian-Chinese plan to defuse the crisis over the Korean Peninsula even though that plan was simple, straightforward common sense and, frankly, the only game in town to avoid war.
- The US accused the Syrian government of preparing a chemical attack and warned of a “heavy price to pay”.
- The US sent its bomber of overfly the Chinese islands in the South China Sea.
- The US accused Russia of destabilizing Eastern Europe.
- The US threatened “severe consequences” against North Korea.
- The US declared that it would deploy Patriot missiles in Poland to protect the Poles from the Russian Iskander missiles (-: LOL! Good luck with that, my Polish friends :-)
- The US also promised the Poles US LNG to “secure Poland’s energy independence from Russia” (-: and good luck with that too, my Polish friends :-)
- The US sent a Polish F-16 to intercept Russian Defense Minister’s civilian (and long announced) aircraft in international airspace over the Baltic Sea.
- The US sent a guided-missile destroyer near Triton Island in the South China Sea
- The US withdrew from the Paris climate agreement.
- The US criticized German trade practices.
- The US criticized China for its trade with the DPRK.
- The US accused China of “trade rape”.
Going down this list, you got to admire the American sense of timing and diplomacy…
But, seriously now,
It does not really matter of these actions are just the result from imperial hubris and delusion, a complete lack of diplomatic education, the consequences of simple and straightforward human stupidity or all part of some diabolical plan to set the US on a collision course with the entire planet. What matters is the mind-blowing arrogance of it all, as if the USA was a white knight in shining armor worthy only of praise and adulation and as if the rest of the planet was composed or rowdy schoolchildren who needed to heed the words of their principal and better start behaving or else get a good spanking from Uncle Sam.
If that is how Trump hopes to make “America Great Again” he might want to consider other options as that kind of attitude makes “America” (he means the USA, of course) look not “great” but arrogant, out of touch and supremely irritating. Let’s talk on the world, everybody at the same time seems to be the grand plan of this administration.
The result of all these “diplomatic” efforts were predicable: nothing.
Well, almost nothing. Here is what “nothing” looks in diplomatic language:
According to Foreign Minister Lavrov Presidents Trump and Putin,
were “motivated by their national interests” (who would have thought?!) and they agree on a number of concrete measures:
- an acceleration of the procedure to appoint new ambassadors – RU-US and US-RU
- they discussed the Russian diplomatic facilities seized by Obama
- they create a work group to discuss a number of issues including terrorism, organized crime, hacking and cybersecurity.
- they discussed Syria and the Ukraine and talked for 2 hours and 15 minutes.
According to RT, Russia and the US agreed on a ceasefire in the Daraa, Quneitra and As-Suwayda provinces of Syria. That is very good, of course, but this is in the one corner of Syria (southwest) were very little action is taking place (right now all the important stuff is taking place between Raqqa and Deir-Az-Sor). Oh, and there are de-escalation zones already in place in the southwest:
So unless Trump and Putin are keeping something really important secret, it seems that this summit has yielded exactly what I feared it would: nothing, or something very very close to nothing. If we find out later that in spite of everything, the two sides did discuss something of importance and agreed on something important, I will post and update here. And, believe me, nobody will be happier than me if that happens.
But, alas, it appears that many months of a sustained Neocon campaign to make darn sure that Russia and the US could never seriously collaborate have been very successful.
So where does this all leave us, the million of people who had at least *some* hopes about Trump being an outsider who could try to make some real changes happen and maybe liberate the United States from the Neocon regime in power here since at least Bill Clinton (if not earlier)?
On February 14th of this year, following the anti-Flynn coup and Trump’s betrayal of his friend, I wrote that “it’s over folks” and “Trump betrayed us all”. I took a lot of flak for writing this, especially since I had come strongly on Trump’s side against Hillary during the campaign. Sadly, I believe that my conclusions in February are now proven correct.
I understand while some will want to present this meeting as, if not a success, then at least “good start” or a “semi-success”. For one thing, being the bearer of bad news never made anybody popular. Second, those who support Trump or Putin (or both) will want to show that the leader they support achieved something. Finally, if both sides report that the meeting has been a success, who are we to say otherwise?
I don’t know about anybody else, but I always have and always will call it as I see it. And what I see is simply nothing or something very close to nothing. Sorry folks, I wish I could say something else.
As for apportioning blame for this non-event, I place 100% of the guilt on the US side which did everything wrong with an almost manic determination and which will now find itself in the rather unenviable position of fighting pretty much the entire planet all on its own. Oh, sorry, I forgot. Poland unconditionally supports the USA and Trump!
Well, good for them. They richly deserve each other.
The Saker
The bufoon in charge of the White house and his minions should read Edward Luttwak’s book on the grand strategy of the Roman empire. Donald Chump and his team of neo-confederates reactionaries are rapidly destroying the columns of the american temple. I don’t see how a declining hegemon can beat a formidable combo of Russia and China ? Russia with a complete full service economy will soon pass Germany with Europe’s largest economy in PPP. In Asia, I doubt India would be suicidal enough to play the role of eurasian continental dagger… To think this is the best leadership America has to offer in 2017 ? How the mighty have fallen.
Edward Luttwak’s book on the grand strategy of the Roman empire.
I actually had Ed Luttwak as a teacher. I think that he was very much Satan-like: extremely intelligent, very well-read, with a beautiful and elegant mind. He was also 100% amoral, “right” and “wrong” meant nothing to him. Do I recommend his books? Yes, definitely. But always remember that the author has no morality or conscience whatsoever. So yes, read his books, but say a prayer before and after.
The Saker
I mostly agree with you, but this time I feel you just dubbling down. Everything literally went much better then the what was imaginable at a supposed 30min meeting.
1. The meeting was suppose to last for 30min, it lasted for 2.5hours.
2. Agreement was actually reached during the first meeting.
3. Trump actually let other world leaders wait while he talked with Putin. Clearly Putin was the most important guy there for Trump.
4. Afterwards Putin and Trumps wife were seated next to each other and chatted away.
If this had been China or some Asian country you would have raved on about “how this is a sigh of honor” “oh, how clearly their friendship is displayed”, “oh, look at how they respect each other”, “oh woa, a agreement already reached, the era of USA is truly over now”, “Oh, what a dubble helix, look how they are comfortable with each other”
Thanks for this clarification. I always wondered about the guy. Folks have recommended him, but something just did not smell right…
Considering current Anglo-american elites proclivities for nihilism, a semblance of grand strategy or any coherent strategic execution would be beneficial and more stable for all parties involved. With or without prayers, it’s certainly better than whatever they got going on right now.
Hi,
For anyone who wants to read Luttwak’s book/s, go here and download for free. There are also millions of other titles as well. All for free, thanks to a woman from Uzbekistan(I believe) who first came out with the amazing site, Library Genesis. I hope I don’t offend anyone with this here info. just put any book or author in the ‘search’ bar. Have fun.
http://gen.lib.rus.ec/search.php?req=+Edward+Luttwak&lg_topic=libgen&open=0&view=simple&res=25&phrase=1&column=def
I think you are making this way too complicated and sinister. Putin and Trump met and talked in a friendly manner for over two hours. I am overjoyed about that. I think it has reduced tensions immeasurably. Good things will follow. The world saw Putin as a sincere statesman whose presence was able to help Trump calm down and talk like a world leader. Good for them both. That is not “nothing.”
If I had to recommend on book on Grand Strategy, I’d go with a book by a Col. Liddell Hart called simply Strategy.
Col. Hart is a fascinating person. He was in the British Army between the World Wars. And he saw the mechanization of the military and the creation of armored units. He correctly identified the impacts of this, and wrote books for the British army on how this new military capability should be used. He was of course laughed out of the British Army, and all the old stick-in-the-muds who’d killed tens of thousands charging machine guns in the last war declared that it simply was not done this way. So, the British Army didn’t properly use the tanks it had at the start of the war. The Brits and the French had more tanks and some decent tanks when the Germans smashed through their lines and went to Dunkirk, because neither the Brits nor the French knew how to properly use their tanks.
During the 2nd world war, he had a task or opportunity of talking to captured German generals. Every one of them knew who he was and said proudly that they had read his books.
His book on grand strategy game a bit lately, I think written in the 1950’s. The first part one might skip, as its a collection of historical campaigns and the lessons to be learned from each. The last bit is the part that’s priceless, where he pulls it all together.
Liddel-Hart also helped establish the myth of the good German generals — namely Rommel, Manstein and Guderian. This was politically motivated to allow the US to rebuild the German army from the remnants of Nazi army.
The fact that gold has been moving from west to east for decades now is another factor that must be mentioned frequently. The US dollar is, of course, no longer based on gold and the gold in Fort Knox has not been independently verified in a long, long time. I think a gold backed currency is the super weapon,
“So unless Trump and Putin are keeping something really important secret, it seems that this summit has yielded exactly what I feared it would”
-Well, I think that of course they are keeping things secret, and of course they did not agree much, they only meet for two hours, as you said earlier, they need a few days of pure meetings and discussion at minimum. And the ceasefire they agreed on was likely just symbolic, something positive to show the world to show that the meeting went well and they are moving in the right direction, the real thing they likely agree on is when to meet again. And that meeting will be the one where things gets decided.
“On February 14th of this year, following the anti-Flynn coup and Trump’s betrayal of his friend, I wrote that “it’s over folks” and “Trump betrayed us all”.”
-I do not believe that, I do not believe all hope is lost. It has just been a couple of months, kinda, sure Trump has been a disappointment in many fields, but he has also done amazing things such as leave the TPP and Paris accords.. Clearly the USA Deep state was stronger then we thought or Trump weaker then we thought.. But I see it he is slowly gaining ground against the deep state, and I doubt many(anyone?) think Trump was a stooge all along that never meant what he said.. not even Putin defeated the entire Russian liberal deep state in a couple of months, heck he still hasn’t to a certain degree. And you must imagine that the USA deep state is much more entrenched.
I believe what you said in the end of your article, that this was a “good start” and a “semi-success” , things really went as good as they could have given the current environment Trump exists under. And I expect soon another meeting with Putin will be announced, which will be the real meeting, after that, I believe we will be able to judge USA and Russia future relationship.
Also I would like to point out as I have read in other comments, that the reason the leftists are trying to make anti-Russian sanctions into law, was that among Trump first orders were to get the paperwork ready to life all anti-Russian sanctions. And the leftists reacted with horror at this and immediately sat in to works to make that impossible.. So Trumps core intentions towards Russia there can be no doubt about, the question is how well the deep-state can hold him back.
Since the replacement of Gen. Flynn, we’ve seen Trump’s national security team lead him straight back to the Clinton-Bush-Obama neocon path. Trump who was talking about no more regime change wars has been steered firmly back into the wars in Syria and North Korean that a Hillary Clinton regime would have gotten us involved in.
I do think the problem with Gen Flynn was that Trump felt like Flynn had personally lied to him. At some point when Flynn should have come clean with Trump, he didn’t. The statements at the time seemed to indicate that Trump personally had no trust in him. Which leaves the big question unanswered …. will Trump stand by his people? That’s the mark of a real leader. A real leader gets people to fight for them by standing up and fighting for his people. With Trump, the answer is “we don’t know”. And that’s a part of his apparent weakness right now.
In hindsight, it seems Trump did the right thing by firing Flynn. Despite all the hoopla, I doubt Flynn was really Trump’s friend or ally. Recall that Flynn is extremely anti-Iran, and Flynn brought in another anti-Muslim neocon, Ezra Cohen-Watnick, to the National Security Council. With the support of Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner (a fellow Jew), Cohen-Watnick is still running the NSC.
The untold story seems to be that Trump really thought he could split Iran from Russia and China, and then could sweet-talk Russia away from its ties with China.
Back in 2012, that might have been feasible, but no more. The (failed) Pacific Pivot, the Nazi takeover of the Ukraine, the US-backed al-Qaeda war against Syria, all showed the true intentions of the US-UK-Israel Empire. Faced with relentless and evil attacks which the Empire had planned for decades, China and Russia have become welded together. Moreover, Moscow and Beijing now both see Iran as a vital partner, with events like the Saudi aggression against Qatar making the value of Iran ever more obvious.
At some point, either in March perhaps even before he fired Flynn on Feb. 13, Trump realized his divide-and-conquer plan would not work and that might have been why Flynn was fired. Neither Trump nor the Deep State which he is supposed to be so very much against , have been able or willing to come up with a Plan B. Any viable Plan B would require a considerable degree of US “climbing down” and that is too embarrasing for now. With further defeats and humiliations in the years ahead, a climb down will become more attractive. The hard question is how to build a peaceful world where North America is economically viable, and Washington is not thinking about that … yet.
For the record, I stopped supporting Trump in April, after he bought into the easily-discredited “chemical attack” on Khan Shaykhun. Even Obama knew how to avoid that trap. Trump only needed to ask the UN’s OPCW to investigate. Even today, that’s still an exit Trump refuses to take. So I’m done with Trump. Still, I would hate Soros trying a color revolution here, and of course Pence would be a far worse President than Trump because Pence would have no pretense of caring about what the public thinks. So we are stuck with the orange-haired Jesus as the best we could get.
I think Saker the one thing that came out of the meeting – is the fact they met and spoke.
The appointment of Ex CIA neocon Volker as the rep for Ukraine tells you who is in charge:
https://sputniknews.com/politics/201707081055361847-volker-ukraine-appointment-analysis/
This guy was a lobbyist for Porkie boy – nuff said.
The flying of bombers over Sth Korea after the meeting another signal of who is in charge and no doubt the ceasefire in SW Syria will be broken…
So the results of the meeting – they met and spoke!
According to Tillerson, Putin himself asked for the Special Convoy in Ukraine.
Yes according to Tillerson VVP asked for a special envoy for Ukraine but the Russians didn’t choose Volker! The neo cons/neo liberals did……..that is the point.
How do you get a dog to go insane?
Tie him to a chain and feed him red meat.
‘The US also promised the Poles US LNG to “secure Poland’s energy independence from Russia”’.
And who will secure Poland’s energy independence from the USA?
I only ask because I want to know.
“Oh, sorry, I forgot. Poland unconditionally supports the USA and Trump!”
And Porkoshenko.
Let’s not forget the Albanians. They are also in that club.
US appoints ex-NATO envoy to handle Ukraine crisis.Volker, who was the US permanent representative to NATO in July 2008-May 2009, and is currently the executive director at a DC-based think tank, the McCain Institute for International Leadership at Arizona State University, was appointed a special representative to Ukraine on Friday.
“Volker will coordinate all State Department efforts to bring a resolution to the conflict created when Russia invaded Crimea and later eastern Ukraine,” R.C. Hammond, a communications adviser for Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, said, according to a report cited by Reuters.
Ukrainian leader Petro Poroshenko greeted Volker’s appointment on his Twitter feed.
https://www.rt.com/news/395604-us-ukraine-crisis-envoy/
(please note this did not come out of the meeting – it was an announcement made earlier in the day. Mod)
I am supporting #UNRIG, a movement Trump was inivited to embrace, but was not clever enough to do so. Trump’s record is mixed, neither a total disaster, nor something to brag about.
Here is Robert David Steele giving a “state of Trump’s Union” analysis of Trump. Back then, he was more optimistic about Trump…. though he still says, “God bless Donald Trump”, because of the possibilities that his appearance on the world stage has facilitated.
Robert Steele: State of Trump’s Union (YouTube 17:00)
http://phibetaiota.net/2017/05/robert-steele-state-of-trumps-union-youtube-1700/
Claims like this don’t help Steele’s cause, in fact seriously undermine his credibility and his associates :
https://www.disclosurenews.it/en/mars-slave-colonies/
Consider this in the light of recent discoveries of conditions inimical to life on Mars.
I agree. He definitely appears to have gotten the message, judging by his very recent interview with Kerry Cassidy @ http://phibetaiota.net/2017/07/live-tonight-7-pm-eastern-robert-david-steele-on-the-deep-state-everything-else-interviewed-by-kerry-cassidy-of-project-camelot/ .
I personally have warned Steele that he is shooting himself in the foot with respect to some of the articles he’s featured on his website (which are supposed to be curated) that made unsubstantiated claims having to do with extraterrestials and the alleged pedophilia of Mike Pence. As I pointed out, I have no problem believing that ET’s are here, nor that Bill Clinton has sexually assaulted (and even raped) women, given the fact that there’s multiple witnesses along these lines (see Steven Greer and Disclosure Project re ET’s). It’s not non-mainstream views that will hurt Steele’s cause, as much as very grave claims that can’t be defended, for lack of evidence. As I remarked to him, the most objectionable claims that I cited remind me of the alleged Trump/Russian collusion, for which we still wait, in vain, for a shred of evidence to be made public.
His heart is in the right place, AFAICT, and he is, indeed, a “collector of brilliant ideas”. I recently attempted contacting most of the speakers to Ralph Nader’s “Breaking through Power” meetings, which also espouses citizen lobbying, in support of #UNRIG. Steele’s ideals and purpose exceed his lack of judgement, and #UNRIG remains worth supporting.
If I was writing the headline on this meeting, I would write something like .. “Putin gifts Trump a beautiful bouquet of lollipops to use out domestically. Trump accepts enthusiastically.”
Tillerson indicated that what is clear is the two sides agree on the desired status of Syria, and the desired status of North Korea.
Syria—they want it to be whole. What is inside the whole is another thing. And of course, who is the leader of Syria is the prime thing. The US has no substitute for Assad. They just want him out.
North Korea—Russia and US want no nukes on the Peninsula. But US has no clue how to achieve that. Russia has a clue. It barely includes any help from US except to “back off”.
The talks established that Trump and Tillerson are a tough team. Rex’s many years of negotiations and meetings with Putin give Trump insights that are advantageous.
Putin and Lavrov went to school today and will discuss Trump’s styles and traits.
As for world peace and harmony, we are on our own. That’s what prayers are for.
Will Syria be held captive by the US-Israeli machinations?
I don’t think much has changed or will change.
Russia, Iran and Turkey are the real stakeholders.
There is not much space or oxygen left in Syria for the US. As things settle down in Syria, China will move in for the reconstruction. When that process gets going, the US will have no role.
Russia will decide what role Turkey has. They will have to decide about Astana agreement by next month. They vetoed the de-escalation zone plan this week.
Putin and Erdogan will work it out.
The final piece of the puzzle, Kurds, has been decided. They will not get autonomy or Kurdistan. They will get local control, as other groups and regions will get in the New Syria.
The next round of Astana might include the US and Jordan. That will tell us much more about the future of Syria than today’s meeting.
Presently, it is Putin’s plan that everyone is fitting into.
Nothing changed today. Except, the Syrian Army will have more troops freed from the ceasefire zone in the Southwest to go finish off ISIS in the East.
Nothing much changed today, as regards concrete agreements. None could be expected, since such agreements require previous work by line expert staff.
I’d say, however, that the main purpose for Putin must have been to put all issues on the table and give his views and stand on each one. Now that he has done that, then he can get down to work on his own plans – without the US claiming to be surprised by his moves. He will probably get Trump to agree on a case by case basis, and Trump doesn’t play along, then Putin will find a way of working around his opposition.
Does this mean Hezzbola is freed up to tend to other pressing matters?
I would assume that the Daraa, Quneira, Suweida ceasefires were proposed by Russia. Trump, not sure what Team Putin was talking about, said “Sure, man, deal!”.
The Saudi and GCC sheiks won’t be happy. They don’t pay mercenaries to do nothing by day, and singing campfires songs after sunset.
The SAA will be pleased. The terrorists in these areas are already mostly cut off from support lines, sitting idly around won’t help their cause. Meanwhile the Syrian government will continue with renewed vigor it’s already quite successful reconciliation process in these areas
The ceasefire zones in the Southwest are a bigger deal than it looks.
Concur. Russia was working on this for weeks, in Amman and with Damascus.
It screws the Israelis, somewhat. It forces Jordan out of the supply and support mode, in subservience to the US and Tel Aviv. It puts Russians in charge on the ground.
Using Russian MP forces means Chechens, like in Aleppo. That means, special forces as MPs, Sunnis who know a radical terrorist from a disgruntled “rebel”.
They will be collecting detailed Intel and establishing deep roots. Kadyrov already is rebuilding mosques in Syria. Chechen humanitarian and social aid will flow to the correct people.
Yes, this is a big deal for Syria and Russia. It sounds like an expansion of the de-escalation zone nearby. Thus, the rules are very clear. An violent opposition will be liquidated.
Anyone but me feel the opposite, that the anti-Russian liberal/neocon campaign is weaning? And Trump is getting a bigger and bigger playing field and the anti-Russian journalists influence is shrinking and shrinking. At this point I almost feel they are afraid to report on Trump on Russia in any negative light at the risk of being mocked for their low cred.
//But, alas, it appears that many months of a sustained Neocon campaign to make darn sure that Russia and the US could never seriously collaborate have been very successful.
“CNN breaking news: Ceasefire Evidence of Russia Trump Collusion”
No one can come out with this story, you say? I suspect you’re right. It seems like today it would be career suicide.
Trump has caused CNN to fall upon itself with bravado no one dared to dream.
The military failed to link al Tanf and the Tabqa dam.
The CIA just got all its key hacking tools dumped on the darkweb.
The DNC is a train wreck.
Anyone else wanna go toe to toe with the orange jesus? He’s no hero to me, but I say, sitting down productively with the Vlad seems like a pinnacle of US foreign policy since before I can remember.
Good for Der Leader. I’m just stoked it was #nothillary ftw.
If they do run this story, it has the explicit permission of the President of CNN. He just declared after the last fake news embarrasment that all Russia stories now need executive approval before being aired or posted on the web.
Just remember – neocons will not give up – until they either win or are obliterated (somehow)
Sadly, I believe that my conclusions in February are now proven correct.
-Hum? The official plan was for Trump and Putin to meet for only 30min, and instead they kept the meeting going for 2h, despite protests from aids trying to end the meeting, and they reached an agreement. And then you feel you are “proven correct” when things actually went much better then the plan that was officially announced? How does that add up?
What agreement? Did I miss something? I think that this meeting and in fact this whole G20 circus is just a waste of time and tax payers money. It’s just so typical for the Western way of “business”: shaking hands, smiling into cameras and some empty words, a big nothing. Yes, the Saker was proven correct and I would like to add that Putin and Xi better send their subordinates for the next G20 summit because all this mentally deficient stage acting is not even worth 30 minutes of their precious time.
In Poland Trump gave a fascist speech in support of war, Hitler would be proud. And that it was said in Poland is ironic.
Do you think Trump is playing two games? One public, and one private? Maybe he is appeasing the Deep state by publicly stating what they want to hear, but in the meeting with Putin they agree to some things of mutual benefit. Putin must understand that Trump’s balls are in a vice, I wouldn’t doubt it if Trump was threatened with his or his family’s life. I realize this wouldn’t change much strategically for the Russians as they have to act accordingly, but it’s at least somewhat comforting to hope they are both stalling the escalation of conflict.
LOL do you think members of the ‘deep state’ are stupid? They don’t care what he says publicly, what matters are his actions such as the military strike in Syria. It is really beyond me why people still believe Trump would do some magic ‘turn-around’ after all he’s said and done these last few months, in all likelihood they will be cheering him on in 3 years saying, he just didn’t have enough time to do anything but would act in his second term.
Get real. If he had wanted to meet Putin he could have done so much sooner, taken much more time to seriously discuss world affairs but he knows he’s no match. Putin even publicly said he would consider meeting Trump in Slovenia i.e. Also remember how Trump said he wouldn’t meet Merkel until the G20 summit, well he met her in March, he did however only meet with Putin now.
His actions speak louder than his words, he is not interested in taking on the deep state head on, he cares more what the media says about him and that’s why he stays up all night and posts angry tweets. It’s all about his image.
YES
Also, his public games are implementing his agenda.
You can scream ‘narcissist’ all day long, but Trump is effectively pulling Hegemon back from the brink.
Neocons want Qatar to fund more terror? OK, give KSA the go ahead, and they pitch a royal hissy fit, and the next thing you know Qatar, Iran and Turkey are buddy-buddy.
You want NATO to pick a fight with Russia. OK, you go to Europe and act like an ass, and now NATO can go FUND itself.
Everything Trump does is part of the Neocon plan, but everything he does is so overdone as to screw up the Neocon plan. I think that look in Putin’s eyes is amazement at how well DJT plays his role.
Neither one is the other’s patsy; they both have an agenda, and it is basically for each nation to take care of itself.
I believe you are correct, even if some positive agreements were made the Deep State will not honor them. Expect an attack by US on Syria before Trump gets back.
I agree with you. I can’t see any agreement in the future.
I tend to agree on most parts of this surprisingly fast (close to real time) analysis.
However, I do believe that the Russians have a very good handle on this, and will be able to “play” Mr. Trump, + entourage better than before this meeting.
In addition, when MSM reflects to “the world” via their feeds, positive signals, however wrong or loop-sided they might be, it’s still positive signals, tension release etc.
Take Care
Kent
this surprisingly fast (close to real time) analysis.
Guilty as charged. This is not at all my preferred time-frame, but in this case I felt that waiting for something good any further just made no sense. But yeah, normally I prefer to take 3-5 days to research and analyze an event before speaking.
the Russians have a very good handle on this
Oh I agree. The Russians have to huge allies in this
1) factual reality
2) the truth
So they will prevail. Right now they simply don’t care, I think. They lost hope in Trump long ago (and, let’s be honest, Putin was always very cautious about what he said and did not say, he probably had a pretty good psychological profile of the guy and realized early on that Trump was never for real). For the Russians all the real action is with China. With a thoroughly “Polonized” USA they have no business at all.
Cheers,
The Saker
Saker, I think you are too pessimistic here. In a few days, Trump will produce a story to tell the world that Putin threw Chinese, or Iranian, or Syrian under bus over some sweat desert.
In a few days, Trump will produce a story to tell the world that Putin threw Chinese, or Iranian, or Syrian under bus
He might indeed. But since it will not be true, it will really make no difference either way. After Kerry (who always said “A” after meeting the Russians and “non-A” back stateside) the Russians have seen it all. That is one of the reasons why they don’t take Trump and more seriously than Obama – they are all words.
The question I would love to hear a response to and an opinion on from the Saker is this –
In your opinion does Donald Trump have his hands on a single lever of power in he US?
In my humble opinion he has none and is therefore a distraction and an irrelevance and we need to keep our eyes on what the Satanic NWO are really doing.
However I may be wrong and indeed Mr Trump may indeed have some small part to play in the US regime.
Could you state your own view on this?
Thanks and best wishes
In your opinion does Donald Trump have his hands on a single lever of power in he US?
No, probably not. A strong person could probably grab these levers of power, but Trump is weak, an overcooked noodle with no spine and no balls. So no, just like Obama, he controls nothing, nothing at all.
Thanks for replying. I think you are right.
Therefore, this being true, Trump is not in a position to negotiate anything.
My point is then, that instead of paying attention to this empty figurehead, in looking at US policies, we should perhaps focus on where the real power lies.
How much control of the US do the Zionist ( Israel firsters ) hold and what is the role of US corporate power (military and financial) in shaping policy?
And what about the CIA?
Don’t they run their own foreign policy? Does the US president even know what they are up to?
Examining the sources of US “power” would I think be a better way to understand what is driving this entity, the USA, getting beyond the endless focus on one guy who plays no part in decision making anyway.
Perhaps in a future article you might delve into this a bit. Few if any, in the “media” want to touch it.
best wishes
The Israel first, Zionist lobby control All aspects of the U.S.A. Its really that simple.
A vast majority of these said folks are Talmudic (Khazarian blooded) Jews who have saturated pillars of power and influence throughout the entire western world.
They envision Jerusalem as their world capital, but have their eyes on Russia as well. Russia must be made to kneel for their plan of world domination to proceed.
These Khazarian (often referred to as ‘the thirteenth tribe) Jews have had animosity and fought with the Slavic Russ ( Russians) since the early Middle Ages. Their barbaric Kingdom of Khazaria was finally squashed by a joint Slavic Orthodox and Muslim effort and they were scattered throughout the known world at that time.
This is one of the sole reasons for their out-of-control hatred of Russian Orthodox people. This is why they brought about a bloody Bolshevik revolution and ushered in athieism upon the hapless Russian people. Stalin finally woke up and destroyed the perpetrators.
Then , in the 90’s they reappeared. Trying to destroy Russia and her civil society and institutions from the inside out. The Putin the Great shows up and they are squashed again.
In essence, they have a ‘hard-on ‘ for Russia. Period. Russia now is locked in a struggle for her very existence.
Saker,
I tend to agree. Overall I rate he has 10-15% of the Executive Power of the Presidency.
What he controls is only himself. He has not replaced 95% of Obama people in the State Dept, DOJ, DNI, CIA, NSA, and the Pentagon has not changed a corporal much less any generals or admirals.
His top Cabinet have changed some important policies. Mnuchin at Treasury, Ross at Commerce and Sessions at DOJ have had impact. But they still have not been able to layer below themselves and get out Obama and Bush people because Trump has not nominated and the Senate slow walks the nominations.
He has been very lame at messaging, except in behalf of himself, in personal battles with the MSM.
His WH is a mess. His advisers are all over the place. Gary Gould is become inordinately powerful. This is all on Trump. He’s a weak “manager-CEO”.
He agreed to not bring in his own staff from his Trump Org, and left Pence with enormous power to sabotage him.
So, overall, as Executive, I’d give him D- marks. As a Leader, he gets A-. He sets a tone and sells the mission pitch well. He empowers (cedes) his top appointees. But he has no control of what he wants to accomplish. Thus, the key domestic policies have gone nowhere. He’s so far failed at all Congressional legislation that is linked to the big domestic projects he needs.
As for foreign policy, Tillerson has taken control of some of it. The Commerce Secretary Ross has been very effective on Trade issues. On military, the NSC and DOD are running the show. Trump loved the missile attack and MOAB bombing and loves seeing carrier task forces and now B-I, B-2 bombers flying. Also, sending in the Marine artillery to the Raqqa battle was another muscle flex.
But everywhere the US mil goes they have setbacks right away.
Trump trusts what he hears from IC and MIC. They will lead him to ruin.
He is strong when he is 100% on top of things. Unfortunately, he does not do that but only for ‘showtime’. So, 90% of his leadership is unused.
It is a sign of him not having power in the fact that he and Putin did not set followup meetings. At the least, a meeting dedicated to coordination against terrorism could have been set with Putin, but Trump is powerless to do that. It is clear he is on a short leash from the Deep State.
My question is: are we witnessing the creation of a multipolar North American economy, including Canada and Mexico, which excludes Washington, DC (gasp!)?
That’s my takeaway from the G20. And this seems to have the support (and presumably, participation) of China, Germany and Russia.
Pence was in Cyprus lately, talking about a “bizonal, bicommunal Federation.”
And further to the “bizonal, bicommunal Federation” bit (which is a marked departure from the standard “freedom and democracy,” isn’t it?)… I think Trump’s support of the common man is overblown. This is just my opinion. Everything about Trump’s life suggests he is dedicated to being uncommon. That living as a common man would be like descending into Dantes inferno for him. But he does seem to depart from others in his class, who are mostly living off of generational wealth, in his view of what is to be done with all these common people. Whereas some of his compatriots may find it incomprehensible that you can run over a squirrel in your car and it’s just part of life, but run over a common person and you might actually be put in jail — Trump appears not genocidal. Beyond that, I would assume not much else. Really – he is clearly a one-percenter. But he’s not going to try to kill off the 95 percent, and right now, that’s something. So maybe, he gets his people, his society, to agree to give the little people a zone. Let them commune. :-) And perhaps the strength of other world powers prevents the genocidal types from realizing their macabre plans, anyway. All in all, this may just be not such a bad outcome.
With regard to the bombastic stupidity of the US leading up to the summit, there’s a tiny chance Trump is trying to appease the Russiaphobes that dominate Congress and the media by talking tough before trying to restart his campaign promise of achieving better relations with Russia. It’s a long shot, but one can’t rule out the possibility of further agreements with Russia coming down the road. But at the moment, Trump–even if he wanted to–couldn’t make any substantive agreements with Russia without facing a mob with pitchforks.
How much of the list in the Saker’s excellent article were actually actions or speeches (or tweets) from Trump himself?
If we are going to call it a related run-up to the mini-summit, then to me only items that occured once there was an agreement to meet should count?
Remember, the US at this time has competing power centers, each of which has their own agenda. So, that’s why I’d think it makes a difference as to what Trump said or did and what other areas of the US government said or did. Could easily have the Trump WH working to make such a meeting work, while other power centers in the US gov were working to make it fail.
One thing that has become clear with Trump is that large sections of the US gov no longer view the US as a functioning democracy. And if anyone else in the world is expecting the American people to solve the problems of the US war machine and the US deep state, then they need to take that under consideration. The American people live in a severe surveilence state and police state. Remember, the German people could not stop Hitler, although many tried.
I would point out that the long list of US “preparations” leading up to this G20 amounts to the new President reversing the failed policies of his feckless predecessor.
But now that it’s sorted, we may proceed.
The Anglo American elites already had an audience with the Russian elites. Why should Trump bother meeting Putin when Kissinger met him in a private meeting less than two weeks ago?
Trump is worthless. My only guess is that Mossad enticed Trump to attend a party without his wife, a rufie was slipped into his drink, and they now have video evidence of him having sex with a (slightly) underage girl. He has been blackmailed into submission. Why else would Trump break all of his campaign promises?
The USA will allow the the Kurds to form an independent state for the following reasons: 1.) to weaken Syria; 2.) to secure a transit route to Europe for drugs, weapons, human organ trafficking, oil, and LNG from Qatar; and 3.) to antagonize Turkey as payback for signing business deals with Russia that include trade in currency outside of the US dollar.
How much value do the NATO military bases add to the Polish economy? When (not if) the Ukrainian economy collapses and the country is broken up, Poland hopes that the USA will allow it to annex the western Ukraine. LNG would have to be shipped by boat from the USA to Poland. That is a dangerous and expensive way to transport gas. It would be much more expensive than buying from Russia. What else can the Polish elites expect to gain from the USA?
What else can the Polish elites expect to gain from the USA?
As a nation – nothing. But their politicians – like all EU politicians – gain a great deal from being Uncle Sam’s poodles. Of course, in Poland the people are especially guilty for electing especially odious politicians. The good folks in Poland, and there are some, are either in jail or threatened with it.
Here in my opinion is what the Poles want…………………
Ukraine is bordered by Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Russia and Belarus. With the exception perhaps of Belarus, all have historical and ethnic ties to parts of Ukraine. Putin could offer each of them Ukrainian territory in exchange for recognition of Russian aims, some of which already have been achieved.
Poland could be offered a strip of territory that would include Lvov; Slovakia could be offered the city of Uzhgorod; Hungary could be offered the territory of Trans-Carpathia; and Romania could be offered Bukovina and the section of Ukraine that lies between the Prut and Dniester Rivers. In addition, Russia could ratify Romanian interest in Moldavia, also known as Bessarabia, in exchange Bucharest ceding interest in Transnistria to Moscow. For all of this, Novorossia would acquire a swath of territory in eastern Ukraine, along a line Kharkov-Poltava-Krivoy Rog-Voznessensk-Balta-Odessa. for Bucharest ceding interest in Transnistria to Moscow. For all of this, Novorossia would acquire a swath of territory in eastern Ukraine, along a line Kharkov-Poltava-Krivoy Rog-Voznessensk-Balta-Odessa.
How else does this make sense……………….
While the Polish special services were training the future participants of the Maidan operations and the ethnic cleansing of the Donbass, the Polish Ministry of Foreign Affairs made this official statement (02-02-2014): “We support the hard line taken by the Right Sector… The radical actions of the Right Sector and other militant groups of demonstrators and the use of force by protestors are justified… The Right Sector has taken full responsibility for all the acts of violence during the recent protests. This is an honest position, and we respect it. The politicians have failed at their peacekeeping function. This means that the only acceptable option is the radical actions of the Right Sector. There is no other alternative”.
In this statement by the Polish Ministry of Foreign Affairs we can see that the Polish government (NATO) is using violence (radical actions) as a means of ensuring the Ukrainian politicians fail in their peace keeping functions.
Its a land grab, a repeat of the attempted Polish land grab in the early 1940’s.
In 1943 Stepan Bandera’s followers massacred 70,000 Poles the majority of whom were unarmed men, women, and children. This mass killing took place in Volyn, Western Ukraine. In the spring and summer of 1943 peasants of Volyn under the leadership of the Galician intelligentsia using bullets, axes and other improvised means assassinated tens of thousands of Poles living in the villages and towns of the region. The political leadership of the OUN had suddenly realised that the Germans might lose the war. So because of the presence of the Polish population the political leadership had simply decided to get rid of that population to prevent Poland’s claim to Volyn.
Obviously Poland has been attempting to claim Volyn in Western Ukraine. On a side note: hence the ethnic cleansing in the Donbass to remove the Russian claim there.
You lay out an interesting plan that would solve the Ukraine’s dilemma.
Russia could throw in a 10% discount on gas for a year to make it even juicier for all those countries. After all, those countries will be picking up a lot of welfare recipients that they will have to feed and care for.
If this was the 19th Century,maybe even the early to middle 20th Century. That idea would have worked. But in today’s World the most important thing is the will of the people (at least publicly). And the majority of people in most of those areas are West Russian Slav (Ukrainians). The only groups that might agree are the Hungarian minority in the Carpathians,the Moldovans,and of course the peoples in Novorossia.The rest ,especially Galicians would never agree to that.And the US would never agree to divide that area among those countries.It would make them all almost allies of Russia. And that would be anathema for the US.
Thanks for the reminder of that “private meeting” between Kissinger and Putin recently. So this is how the world ends, with a bang and a whimper, maybe not in that order. Step Aside, Mr. Trump–top brass coming through! Good God Almighty! Kissinger, again? –how old is he now? -Can you believe this? A quick read of his “wiki” site reminds us how human rights lawyers have condemned Kissinger as a war criminal. This is the same creature that has been quoted as saying “soldiers are stupid brutes to be used as instruments of our foreign policy”. Well, gosh, Henry, how well you’ve aged. And he is the one who is sent on ahead, no doubt a voice crying in the wilderness: prepare ye the way for …..what?– the Antichrist?– and Putin grants an audience to this one. Vlad! quick–Call the exorcist now. I get the distinctly uncomfortable feeling that we are being monumentally jerked by dragons with fangs and claws dripping blood.
I wouldn’t get too excited about the war criminal Kissinger meeting with Putin. This is like the 5-6 time Putin and his senior advisors have allowed this hack to come to Moscow for a paw-pow.
Putin and his advisors probably get some good insight from him, and most likely have a good laugh as soon as the fool is on his return flight home.
Putin and his men know precisely what Washington wants, and there is no way in hell Russia will ‘kneel’ to their supremacist ideology of world domination as proscribed in their dangerous and yet silly Talmud.
Kissinger is a washed- up has- been.
“What else can the Polish elites expect to gain from the USA?”
Short answer: Total and absolutely well-deserved contempt — same as the Ukro-trash.
“How much value do the NATO military bases add to the Polish economy?”
My gut feeling is that the coercive and lawless businesses of Western imperialism in the form of NATO bases and CIA torture dungeons are today’s “Polish economy” along with EU subsidies. Poland has been de-industrialized and de-populated and turned into a (mostly happy) prostitute of the Zionazis — again, same as the Ukro-trash.
What makes you think the Kurds will be allowed a ‘Kurdistan’, by the Arabs of the immediate region, the Iranians, who will correctly see this as a foothold for the U.S.-Israel,,right in the smack center of the Shia crescent?
Sorry, not going to happen. Left alone, a supposed ‘Kurdistan’ would be like a virus only to infect and grow.
The Arab/Persian Shia will perform instant evasive surgery, U.S.-Israeli support or not. If the Kurds had some sense in them, they would start looking at medium to long term instead of being haplessly led around and given false promises by the U.S.-Israel, who are essentially outsiders, and are on their way to being ejected from the Middle East , period.
Yes. The Jewish Deep State has surrounded Trump and they want the Jewish-run NWO (for which Russia’s nuclear resistance must disappear). China is fucked if they weren’t smart enough to bring a gun to a “knife” fight.
His motives are pure (in a “don’t know much” sense) but it’s up to you to save the World for our children…
The ceasefire in those 3 provences in Syria is actually more than I expected from the meet. I didn’t really expect more than a photo op and some brief outlining of future things to work on for their respective diplomatic ministries.
On the other hand that ceasefire agreement probably won’t result in more than another broken agreement from israel’s pet pindos. It will no doubt be broken by one of the israeli proxies within a few days, probably by the american military themselves.
Ray McGovern talking with RT says the ceasefire is a little first test towards building practical trust – will USAF or other US agency break the agreement, or will the commander-in-chief be obeyed this time? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DCu0XQe7Ss
Ray had another good article of his on russia insider yesterday….
Israel is another player to watch. This is the region where they’d been providing artillery support fire for Al-Qaida in the last week or so.
So do you suppose this means the Russians, with Trump’s assistance, have set Israel up for a fall?
New Syria Ceasefire Deal May Be US Attempt to Save Rebels From Defeat
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201707081055351245-syria-ceasefire-rebels-save-attempt/
“A newly announced deal on a ceasefire in southwestern Syria may be an attempt by the United States to save the Syrian rebels from defeat, Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity Executive Director Daniel McAdams told Sputnik.
“On the Syria ‘ceasefire’ agreement, we need to see the fine print. But I am skeptical that yet another US ‘ceasefire’ proposal for Syria will result in the reduction of violence in that six year war,” McAdams said on Friday. “It seems whenever the US side experiences significant losses on the battlefield, Washington comes forward with a ceasefire proposal in a desperate attempt to save its ‘rebels’ from defeat.”
McAdams suggested that the best agreement between Putin and Trump on Syria would be “a negotiated withdrawal of US forces from the country, where they illegally occupy Syrian territory.”
Turkey is apparently consficating Syriac church property because they say their leases have expired….though Putin has partly credited Erdogan which says it has high expectations of Astana process……although Syrian intelligence according to fortruss has warned that chemical experts have arrived from usa and Turkey to participate in the planned fake filming by jaeish al Islam as warned by MFA……maybe everything is still not peaceful……
The best I see was they got to know each other a little. A good “first date”,but no “goodnight kiss”. As for the other parts of Trump’s trip. His Warsaw speech was mildly anti-Russian (much more anti-Soviet,not anti-Russian). But compared to how it could have been. And how a Hillary speech would have been. It was better than I expected.The fact that the “liberal media” is trashing him over the speech.It must have not been as tough as they wanted it to be.
So, it’s agreed. The meeting was a good thing. Nothing came of it that alters anything Russia has a stake in. Ukraine strangles on Minsk 2. North Korea will be called bad names. Russia’s hacking of an election in which 128 million voters participated, and not one person complained of Russian interference is still a topic for IC and MSM to rant about.
And no future meeting or invitations to visit one another was spoken of.
We have an active war in Syria that Russia and Iran have control of.
We have the US taking on Turkey over the Kurds.
And we have Putin with a game changer for North Korea. A gas pipeline to the South which could bring NK money and development, and help separate South Korea from the US vassalage. A booming Korean Peninsula would be good for all neighbors, China, Japan, Russia and the two Koreas.
Moon and Putin got to talk at Hamburg.
Abe and Putin got to talk at Hamburg, and Abe has big political and financial problems. Japan’s Asian Development Bank could participate in the development of the Koreas.
So, the Trump-Putin thing—not so much, eh?
But the Putin NE Asia thing? Looks like Putin will call a lot of the shots as China is put to the screws by the US. New Treasury sanctions will hurt China. Economic war’s first shot.
I like how things worked out. Sometimes nothing is better than something.
“Sometimes nothing is better than something.”
Exactly. As noted by Saker, the full court press of the Powers had poisoned the wells and ensured that it would be impossible for anything significantly positive to come out of the meeting. But I’m equally sure they were working overtime to ensure something significantly negative came of the meeting, and in that they failed. I, too, have given up being cautiously optimistic that Trump might accomplish many of his promised changes in policy (whether he was fake from the start or has been compromised into surrender is probably irrelevant), but every so often he does something that seems like a poke in the eye of the Powers just for spite. Like today, where he was not permitted to agree to anything positive, but by most reports he obstinately drug out the meeting far longer than required to do nothing. Perhaps it was telling that his handlers sent his wife to “remind” him it was time to go….
In sum, I’m pleased he did not irretrievably nix the chances of future progress.
China put to the ‘screws’ in NE Asia i.e. Korea? I am not sure the ‘screws’ will even reach China. North Korea’s intermediate-range missile will mean that if the US start anything, its ally Japan would be the first to experience 10 million degree centigrade in Tokyo. And the US’s THAAD cannon fodder – South Korea – will see Seoul reduced to rubble. No, I don’t think Trump will dare try anything unless he is deranged.
I think his real ‘screws’ on China will be via India’s Modi as in the current confrontation at the China-India-Bhutan tri-junction border. I don’t think Modi by himself will dare ‘screw’ China unless he has Trump’s backing or he thinks he has such backing after their recent summit. Nehru likely also was instigated by the CIA in 1962. I must say that China is in a dilemma here. But the intrusion into what China regards as her own territory, long demarcated and agreed upon is unlikely to be taken lightly because of the geo-political implications elsewhere, especially in the South China Sea.
So I would watch how the ‘screws’ and ‘counter-screws’ are being applied there.
Reading the comments section on Asian internet sources, such as the Asia Times, one can see the continuing and long standing antipathy of ordinary residents and lower officials of Pakistan, India and China to each other. The “deep states” of each of those countries, however, are in a different headspace, as witnessed by the recent inclusion of Pakistan and India in the SCO. As Pepe Escobar has described it, this was a “tectonic geopolitical shift.”
For it to have happened, I suggest, Pakistan and India must have agreed to enter formal peace negotiations to settle Kashmir and other disputes. India and China must have agreed to negotiate their border dispute. These negotiations will undoubtedly be facilitated by Russian and Kazakh diplomacy.
The key to the desire to resolve both issues hinges on Belt Road Initiative (BRI). China needs the Pakistan/India conflict resolved to protect the first major node of the BRI, which is the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC). This has started with the building of freeway network from Kashgar, Xinjiang Province, China, which is the western terminus of the Chinese rail system in southwest China, passing through disputed Kashmir and the length of Pakistan to the port of Gwadar close to the border between Pakistan and Iran, which will give China non-maritime access to the Arabian Sea. This to be followed by China’s extending its high-speed rail to Kashgar and eventually on through Pakistan to Gwadar. China and India also need to resolve their dispute to facilitate the development of road and rail service from China south to Kolkata (Calcutta).
Another key factor in the expanded SCO is the need of all the full members to address the destabilizing effects of the situation in Afghanistan, not least of which is the opium and heroin trade. Iran is likely to be admitted to the SCO in 2018, now that the UN, if not the US, has endorsed the nuclear deal. Drug addiction in Iran has doubled in the last 6 years to 3.5 % of the population, with two thirds dependent on opium.
Now, only one country adjacent to Afghanistan is not a full member or has otherwise a close ranked status. That is Turkmenistan, which enjoys only “guest attendance.” So, the SCO is almost in a position to close off access by any “unwanted entity” to Afghanistan, and thus to control development there, political, military and economic. China has big plans, as Pepe Escobar has intimated, especially for economic development that displaces opium production.
This is absolutely false and displays total ignorance: “the continuing and long standing antipathy of ordinary residents and lower officials of Pakistan, India and China to each other”
I’m amazed that anyone would bring such garbage to this forum.
Pakistanis and Chinese have very longstanding cordial relations at all levels. Many Pakistanis went to college in Chinese and are fluent in Mandarin. Similarly, lots of Chinese went to college in Pakistan and are fluent in Urdu. When the Chinese president (Hu Jintao, as I recall), went to Pakistan, he was greeted by a large crowd of Pakistanis serenading him with Chinese songs and the president joined in. Even from as far away as Pluto, you ought to understand that China and Pakistan have always seen each other as allies, if only because of their difficulties with India, if not from their common experiences with British colonialism.
Hostility between India and Pakistan is primarily due to India’s treatment of Kashmir, which is contrary to international law and promises India made back in 1947, ’48, but it’s also due to the 2002 massacre of 2000-3000 Muslims, mostly from mobs setting houses on fire. Current Indian P.M. Modi was then governor of Gujarat, and quashed the judicial investigations.
But it’s not all hostility. Punjabis live in both India and Pakistan, and share lots of culture amid religious differences, including a taste for Farsi poetry. Indian Punjabis usually prefer the company of Pakistani Punjabis, over their South Indian neighbors.
This is common knowledge, but I’m also speaking from decades of personal experience.
I used to read Asia Times regularly, until the CIA ads and “Jamestown Foundation” articles got to me. Asia Times is probably not exactly a CIA outlet, but it offers little real news. It might be useful for watching the western spin doctors at work, if you really care about that.
Completely OT, but very worth reading: “China’s Financial Debt: Everything You Know Is Wrong” https://www.unz.com/article/chinas-financial-debt-everything-you-know-is-wrong/
I regret the confusion. You are right about the cordial relations between Pakistan and China, obviously. When one reads various South Asian online news outlets and forums published in English, the commentary sniping is between Indians and Chinese and between Indians and Pakistanis. The important point is that the leaderships, by expanding the SCO, clearly intend to resolve the irritants that lead to this antipathy, to develop a far more cordial and profitable set of relationships all around, and to counter the divide and rule tactics of unipolar hegemony.
I think the biggest question with Trump is not his influence on relations with Russia, but whether his presidency goes down in flames. The real threat he faces is not the “Russia-gate” accusations, but that his administration can not accomplish anything, because of ineptitude and external opposition. His supporters probably aren’t influenced by the Russia-gate propaganda, but how much patience will they have with an administration that isn’t really working? Not four years worth, I think. Which makes me worried that Trump could try to gin up a conflict somewhere to try to salvage himself politically.
I find plenty good here. Trump met Putin and they talked for a long time, because as Tillerson reports in his Wash Post interview, they had so much to discuss. So they can talk. This is crucial. In this Trump was his own man, something we haven’t had data on for many weeks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9I8S-ti2QA
Trump can say he has agreements, made deals, etc., if he needs narrative. And he showed he can talk with Putin whenever need arises, and will if he chooses. The Russian view is there are no friends here, but two nations pursue their own self interests – this is a good balanced place for dialog and stability.
The world sees two national leaders bring their heads of foreign ministry to an international meeting. Diplomacy triumphs, and we all know how good Russian diplomacy is. The message to the world is stick with diplomacy if you want to get results. And as I mentioned in a reply up-thread, Ray McGovern views the ceasefire as a small test of Trump’s control – will the commander-in-chief be obeyed, or will another part of the US executive break the agreement?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DCu0XQe7Ss
All good, as much as anyone could have hoped for in this particular venue. Body language good. Meta message good. Practical next steps begun.
And Fiona Hill didn’t get to participate:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-aides-want-kremlin-critic-in-putin-meeting
Well, here’s how I see it — in terms of the real economy, Canada, China, Russia, Germany and the US Governors all appear satisfied. No disparaging comments about Trumpism or Trumpification, for example. Instead, there are forward-looking comments (and actions, from what I’ve seen of Canadian government releases today.)
In terms of the financial economy, the war is on. May the best/least deadly elitist faction win
:-) Who knows what country/countries that will emerge from. The bloodsport looks to carry on indefinitely for now.
It’s fashionable to be contemptuous of American presidents and I also enjoy going to the international pity party and complaining about all the hard work ahead of us because these guys are so wretched and pathetic, if not downright evil.
If only there were Philosopher King living in the White House! Then we would have a Government FOR the People and we could all relax and be taken care of, and enjoy our summer vacations without further worries.
But wait a minute.
Ever since Nov 22, 1963 every occupant of the White House not 100% bought and paid for knows that he has various rifle scopes trained on all 4 sides of his head. None of the ones that might have wished they had the security and intelligence services under the sort of loyalty and trust (if not control) that allowed Vladimir Putin to slowly increase his chances of survival in order to clean house, has had 10% of his maneuvering room, since Nov 22, 1963.
So what do you expect??
I look on the bright side:
1. There was no deadly dessert deployed!!
2. Time is on our side. An awakening is underway……but the USA level of political maturity is still childish……
3. Threats and bluffing and posturing, as long as they are theater that fits in with the Red State enthusiasm for the World Wrestling Federation “The Donald smacks down CNN” meme and don’t involve serious munitions seems to be what these infants (the best we’ve got….the anti-globalist ones…!!!) need in order to keep their morale up at least another few weeks and not cave in to the previous depths of hypnosis and mind control by the likes that dumb blond Barbie Doll Megan Kelly and that horse-faced Rachel Madcow Disease on the Globalist Team.
So, ” It is what it is.”
Meanwhile, after the party more of us need to do what metamars is doing, above:
/the-first-putin-trump-meeting-yields-something-very-close-to-nothing/#comment-375665
That is fight to give The Donald more leeway to fire more traitors and creeps like Robert Mueller
(Creep of the Week: https://youtu.be/hlpb3ZXTun8 ) and get all the rifle scopes off his cranium.
FOR the people is what we want. Trouble is OF the People and BY the people were always a precondition of FOR the people, and that’s a TON of work that was never, ever, before completed.
Cynthia McKinney and Robert David Steele and metamars appear to be willing to do the kind of work required.
Steele expresses worry that McKinney is such a potent “angel” that she may end up assassinated. These two are both modest and intelligent and I also like the strategy……….. so……… far.
The longest journey starts with many small steps but is only realized if the walking never stops, even if the talking takes a few breaks.
So, never tire, never weaken.
Now if Putin and Trump compared notes in private on breaking the pedophilia enforced occultocracy ruling the West, the journey to a Multi-Polar World of no masters, no slaves has encouraging prospects of being successfully completed, slowly, but surely, if billions of people can become conscious of what that means, for them, and they internalize the concept and adjust their behaviour accordingly.
On the other hand, if it is never made conscious what that means to individual lives and their posterity, particularly here in this heavily targetted North American area of the world, the Multi-Polar destination will ever be insecure, despite the excellent Russian and Chinese current leadership.
Bro93, the Creep of the Week video on Mueller is excellent – thank you for that link.
Ditto! (re Mueller video)
What a creep.
These guys keep popping up again as the years, and the adminstrations, roll on.
It is important to track them and their career creepiness.
Looking forward to the next “Creep” video.
Katherine
You would look creepy too if you had overseen the WTC demolition. I imagine this is one of the top co-conspirators, along with Cheney, Gates/Tenet and Silverstein.
Mueller looks like the demons have started extracting his metaphorical innards, with pitchforks, through his ass.
Cynthia McKinney
I love her and consider her a friend.
She wrote the foreword to my next book.
A great lady, for sure.
The Saker
Maybe because we’re not “Left” controlled opposition consisting of psycho-sexually impotent complainers and losers……..
I do understand that misery loves company…..keep searching……you’re bound to find fellow sufferers and slaves if don’t stop looking for such kindred souls.
My analysis like always is an addition to the political analysis. It’s worth remains to be seen, but to me it’s good for the soul, to know that heaven/archetypes have a say above and underneath our heads.
https://mundanestagebuch.blogspot.de/2017/07/miracle-and-surprise-in-hamburg.html
The role the tuppence regime plays in the zionazi strategy was made very clear when pence scooped up a dog turd he found on the sidewalk and made the thing an un ambassador. From that point on it should have been clear trump was a total fraud and his regime will be run from tell aviv.
UNESCO Vote on Hebron Further Discredits the Organization – US Envoy to UN
https://sputniknews.com/politics/201707071055349565-nikki-haley-unesco-hebron-vote/
“The UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) further undermined its credibility by recognizing the city of Hebron as a Palestinian heritage site, according to US Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley.
In 2011, United States stopped funding UNESCO for admitting Palestine as a member state.
Earlier on Friday, the UNESCO voted in favor of recognizing the Old City of Hebron and the Tomb of Patriarchs located there as Palestinian heritage sites.”
This haley is a poster quisling of what the tuppence regime, and trump, represent. It is govno such as this that makes it clear the usa is now little more than a colony of israel. This was clear from at least the raygun regime, but when pence spotted a dog turd on the sidewalk, scooped it up and made it u.s. ambassador to the un, this total subservience of the usa to israel is now something the tuppence regime proudly brags about.
In fact, pindo subservience to israel is pretty much identical to polish subservience to the usa and is even more pathetic. Trump has yet to disappoint massa, and he won’t. He is their very loyal servant.
Where quisling haley got its marching orders from:
‘Delusional’: Israel rages after UNESCO describes Hebron as Palestinian heritage site
https://www.rt.com/news/395647-hebron-unesco-palestinian-israel/
Senator: Trump Must Not Lift Sanctions Despite Putin Denial of Election Meddling
https://sputniknews.com/us/201707081055353272-trump-sanctions-senator-warner/
https://sputniknews.com/us/201707081055353272-trump-sanctions-senator-warner/
“President Donald Trump must not rescind sanctions just because Russian President Vladimir Putin denied meddling in US elections, Senator Mark Warner said in a press release.”
Another israeli quisling.
You are absolutely correct, that Washington gets marching orders from Tel-Aviv.
Not one thing is done in Washington or Wall Street without Tel-Aviv;s tacit approval.
Well, look at the bright side, dear Saker! At least it appears that in spite of the USA ineptitude and arrogance, things don’t seem to be getting immediately worse!
The point most likely to shift the world is the one that sounds unimportant.
“they create a working group”
Of course the leaders of the world were not going to resolve the major issues of the world in a 2 hour conversation. The only way that anything big might come of this is if its been worked out beforehand. Which, would have supposed some sort of ‘working group’ working on the issues so the big bosses can show up and make a big photo-op from the meeting.
The interesting question is whether or not Trump has enough control over his own government to make this work for him? Does Trump have loyal smart people he can send to such meetings? Putin certainly has control over his government, and thus will not have this problem. Can Trump make this work for him and the nation? Or does the Deep State get control of this and leak it to death and make sure there is no progress made?
The sad thing about Trump is that he seems to have made very little progress towards taking real power in the US since the Flynn episodes in the winter. There are no public signs that Trump is putting together his own power base. The only thing that might have been a step in that direction, the firing of that disloyal rat Comey, was very badly handled and executed.
In a nation that is a surveilence state tending towards a police state, he’s made no apparent attempt to set up a power base within those areas. There’s no sign of a group forming that Trump can trust and rely on.
In a nation that is a military bully, there’s been no apparent attempt to form a core of people related to military and foreign affairs. As pointed out above, Trump doesn’t seem to have a group of people he could rely on to send to these ‘working group’ meetings with the Russians.
Sadly, the main thing that has appeared is the impression that Trump isn’t actually very competent of the sort of internal political manuevering required for him to truly take power. Instead he just seems to bounce around with no real plan and no real aim except to come up with his next Tweet.
There was not quite a “nothing burger “in the meeting but perhaps a “slider” came out of it? So it wasn’t quite “Happy Hours” with chips and munchies. At least there is an agreement to which Putin can hold TheDonald should the Israelis act up in SW Syria which they have been doing there lately.
It is not totally inconsequential that the two men met and made the measure of each other. I think that theDon-Don has respect for a worthy opponent and that Putin has the confidence that he can handle Donnie-boy despite all the US trash talking that went on in public speeches before and after.
As for summer of the meme war: Do not discount the scorn of the American people expressed to their elites in this way. The death grip of NWO loosens. Let a 1,000 flowers bloom!
Wasn’t we told about a civil war in Syria? Why “Russia and the US agreed on a ceasefire” in part of Syria? Are the US at war in Syria, since when and with what legitimacy? The agreement on a ceasefire make it clear, that the US are at war in Syria. And this is violating international law, is illegal. Was it Putins intention to unmask this? Does Trump or the US realize, they where unmasked as illegal acting nation?( If they realize that Putin show them up, could this became dangerous?)
I agree there is no legitimacy in U.S.A. being in Syria, but apparently no one really cares anymore. And if the end result is generally acceptable (no ISIS, no civil war, maybe no Assad) then all will be forgiven and forgotten, especially if Syria is rebuilt. U.N. and NATO need U.S.A. money so no allies will act on that illegality. (As a reminder, KSA bizarrely leads the U.N. Human Rights Council.) It’s not good to think too hard about such things.
So why is U.S.A. even there? This is more of a hope than solid analysis, but I suspect that Trump wants troops in Syria for several reasons. 1) Islam has end time prophesies of a ‘Roman’ army defeating them on the fields of Dabiq; if they want defeat, U.S.A. will provide the ‘Roman’ army (afterwards, Jesus comes back, kills the anti-Christ, and converts everyone to Islam; but they haven’t reached their quota of caliphs yet, so maybe/maybe not on ISIS believing this.) 2) U.S.A. helped bring the rebels into existence and those rebels have helped fight ISIS; there is some responsibility to not abandon them before ISIS is defeated; or maybe they will be used to unseat Assad. 3) While Syria is busy with rebels and ISIS, someone needs to protect the Syrian Kurds from Turkey. 4) Russia tested new weapons and tactics in Syria; U.S.A. wants to test mini drones, etc and 4th Gen warfare on real enemies. 5) Trump doesn’t have full control of the government and needs to not fight too hard against the neocons until (and if) he gets more respect/control.
Maybe people aren’t saying similar things simply because those points are too stupid, but they are possibilities that I *hope* are relevant because they have somewhat decent resolutions that eventually get U.S.A. out of Syria. Trump seems to think peace in Syria and with Russia, can be crafted. EVERY time he is declared beaten, he isn’t. We’ll see. He’s only 12-15% of the way into his first 4 year term.
If Hillary had been elected kinetic exchanges between Russia and US would have already occurred.
The election of Trump was a drawing from the well of goodness in US citizenry. We should be grateful to the Lord Almighty for this. Evil is building in the world. His hand will not hold back the tide of darkness indefinitely. I will not scorn such mercies. If my heart with hope can help hold back the tide of the end for even one more heartbeat I will hold fast come what may.
I think Putin is right…the world treads a path close to the beginning of Armageddon. All efforts must be employed to prevent such horror unfolding. I will not disparage the sense of honour and love of life in him. I am humbled by it.
Let not love fail. Let hope abide in every heart.
I second this. We must keep up faith in the All Merciful,s Vast Grace and Supreme Compassion
Using CNN speak, the meeting was a big nothing burger. No surprises there, Russia holds nearly all the cards and the US has done nothing but bluff at the table, and has few if any cards to play except annoying kindergarden stuff like embargoing Russian US property. President Putin versus a game show host, it’s no contest really. Am I’m sure Lavarov is more than equal to standing up to Tillerson.
My question to Saker: where is Putins’ red line? That is the line which when crossed will force Putin to attack
In Syria, men and machines of the RF military whether at Latakia airbase, Tartus naval base or in the field of battle.
In Donbass, another three miles or so toward Donetsk and Lugansk or the Russian border.
In Crimea, at the border with Ukraine.
Kaliningrad, Transnistria, South Ossetia, probably Serbia, Armenia, Central Asia.
Those are just automatic destruction of whatever attacks, air, missile, men, tanks, ship, boat, drone.
He wrote the rule after the Turkish shootdown of the jet fighter. Local commanders have the power to protect and retaliate. It was a Putin public statement.
When two special forces guys were killed with the 100 or so Syrians out near Deir ez Zor last year, the Russians retaliated and took out a Intel HQ with a variety of nations’ officers in the mountain cave facility. The Russians used Kalibr missiles to take out the group. It was payback. No gloating. They just did it. US, Jordanian, Saudi, UK, Israeli (never made clear what the group consisted of.) Aleppo region.
I forget the details on how many and from which nations. But they died.
One thing that we can’t document but we can judge from the results and the flow of battle, the Russians have terrific Intel on Syria. They have many sources from the array of allies (Syrian, Iranian, Turk), and their own Chechen, Turan (Central Asia), FSB, SVR, GRU, SigInt, HumInt and “hacked” Int from all the groups in the coalition and their proxies.
Syria, absolutely. And, chosen correctly, me thinks.
Read this Saker, Larch, Votak, Uncle Boberoo
https://sputniknews.com/analysis/201707081055354084-putin-trump-syria-ukraine/
Since DPRK refused to consider reversal of its nuclear program, my guess is either
1) External, visible actions are providing a cover story and misdirection while China prepares a mostly covert operation, for which it will be effusively praised afterward.
or
2) In an attempt to look like an economic rather than militaristic power, China passively declined to help substantially, so U.S.A will soon commence with the kinetic solution, on which Russia was consulted and China will be mocked.
To me, all the recent history provided in the article seems like over analyzed trivia relative to the goal of no nukes in Korea. But yes, the Syria stuff does seem complicated, and I have no guesses on that unrelated-to-DPRK mess.
I must admit I’m not sure of what is going to happen with North Korea. All I can do is guess from what I’m learned about the country. But I think that most Americans know much less than even I do. That they don’t understand the society there.I’d recommend watching the new RT video on life in North Korea to understand a little of the mindset of people there. They are not afraid of the US. No one of course “wants” to die in a war. But they have been taught for generations about the crimes the US committed against their people in the 1950’s. And are constantly told that the US plans on attacking them to kill them.There seems to me to be a fatalism in that society. If they are going to be attacked they will “fight to the death” and take as many Americans to hell with them. The US thinking that they can just attack North Korea like they do in the Middle East. And not be stuck back is crazy thinking. The North will strike back as hard as possible. They aren’t the people to back down.And if the US strikes again,they will strike back again.North Korea isn’t Iraq or Afghanistan or Yemen. An invasion of North Korea would be monstrously bloody. And not only for the North Koreans. The US would lose thousands of troops in the war.And if successful,and they move into North Korea the chances of war with China would be very high. China “can not,will not” allow US troops on the Chinese border. They would be forced to enter the war against the US. And the whole World could be blown apart in World War.The insanity of US thinking on that matter is shocking.
I too have heard of their devotion to their leader country. A ground war does seem like a very bad idea.
Therefore, I don’t think U.S.A. plans on an invasion Someone who checks such things says that only carriers have been deployed to that area, not troops. I suppose that leaves South Korean troops. South Korea can’t live under constant threat of destruction from the North. Kim showed no honor in his past commitments.
Perhaps a bunch of MOABs alone would be enough to set back the nuke delivery capabilities and most military capabilities too. That would at least force negotiations. Maybe. Continuing to not do anything substantial just doesn’t seem like an option anymore. I can’t imagine DPRK having and probably selling nukes to our enemies. I assume China can’t either. That’s why I predicted either they will handle it (military risk to China) or they’re waiting for us to look bad handling it but us hate them (economic risk to China) and love Taiwan instead. And if China won’t handle it and/or if we don’t handle it, we might give nukes to Japan. A powerful Japan rightfully scares China. Japan finally finished cleaning up their chemicals weapons in Manchuria or Nanjing only a few years ago.
Lots of pieces, and I never was good at playing chess or Chinese checkers.
A couple of points here. First,the US thinking that “oh we’ll drop bombs on NK, MOAB or other kinds”. And NK will just stand and take it is crazy. They will strike back will massive missile strikes on US bases. And did it occur to you that the North Koreans could be saying the same thing about SK ,that they can’t live under the constant threats from South Korea and the US too.
And second,what would be the difference between Japan being able to get nuclear weapons and NK and Iran having them. Japan has no “special” right in the World to get to have nuclear weapons. The US may “think” they have some right to decide who can have nuclear weapons. And can give their friends those weapons is they want to,but that is wrong. And I have no doubt that China and Russia would prevent that at the moment that plan was started. China would “never” allow Japan (of all countries) to get nuclear weapons. I doubt the Japanese people would allow that either. There would be millions of Japanese rioting in the streets over that idea.After Hiroshima,Nagasaki,and the Fukushima nuclear accident,the Japanese people want nothing to do with the dangers of those weapons.
The Japanese have had a secret nuclear weapons program for years. US and France have worked it with them. Fukushima secrecy is all about their weapons program.
The rescission of Article 9 of the Japanese Constitution would set off China on an arms race.
It would totally destabilize Asia.
Putin has been building a close relationship with Abe and the Japanese for security and economic reasons. Integrating Japan into the Eurasian development is critical.
The US wants Japan to be its UK-Germany of a new military alliance it would use to contain Russian-China.
I’m replying to your earlier comment since we’re getting skinny columns.
I don’t dispute the problems you raise nor do I have a good solution. Thanks for sharing them.
You mentioned the “insanity of US thinking on that matter” and “All I can do is guess” about what will happen. Do you have a guess on what will happen?
It’s silly of me, but these days I’m into trying to predict the outcomes rather than just understand the problems and the players. I’m sticking to my two previously mentioned outcomes: China semi-covert op or U.S. kinetic op without U.S. troops. The situation is deadly serious, but I’m having fun with making guesses.
Scott Adams, the Dilbert cartoonist, suggested something like China providing the guarantee of the safety of both North and South if the North will denuke and U.S.A. leaves. I think he had some other honor saving conditions in there too. I thought that was a creative possibility but doubt that it will be chosen.
I really do not believe that Washington will take the risk of attacking the DPRK. Even the Pentagon now admits that the DPRK has the ability to nuke, at the very least, two notable US cities in Alaska (Anchorage and Fairbanks) and possibly also Honolulu in Hawaii. I think we will see a lot more US rhetoric/threats followed by DPRK missile tests, but little else in the near future on that front.
ad hominem statement removed … mod
Barack Obama infamously tried to use this very weasel phrase when he pathetically characterized the United States’ rape of Libya in 2011 as a “kinetic action.”
And much like its deceptions about Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction or its hissy fit about Iran’s nuclear program, America is manipulating “concern” over North Korean nuclear weapons as a pretext to advance more predatory American ambitions targeting China and Russia.
US Targets China & Russia Under Guise of ‘Korea Protector’
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/03/10/us-targets-china-and-russia-under-guise-of-korea-protector.html
Speaking of the MOAB, here an interesting analysis what this weapon really reveals about America:
America Aggression: A Threat To The World
https://journal-neo.org/2017/04/17/america-aggression-a-threat-to-the-world/
Armchair analysts glibly speculate about these geopolitical issues like a spectator sport–not realizing that war is not going to be limited to some distant land but can engulf their own nations in a conflagration, which they will not survive.
At this early point in the Trump presidency, a potentially very beneficient process may well be underway, sort of despite Trump himself. Whatever Trump himself turns out to be, perhaps we can think of Trump as an encouraging sign of the times, a shift in consciousness, representing a significant American awakening: a visceral sense that the country is way off track and going down the drain in various ways, and it’s past time to do something. Although mass media and most political heavyweights did everything they could to elect Clinton, that dog didn’t inspire anyone; just promised full steam ahead over the cliff. .
A bit of context: the two leading candidates for the title of most demonized (by western mass media) political figures in recent years, who just happen to have the fate of the earth attached to their nuclear trigger finger, met face to face for the first time for a couple of hours. And apparently they got along okay. “Good chemistry”, says Tillerson.
Trump has been attacked way beyond anything we’ve ever seen before by just about everybody who isn’t ‘deplorable’ in the US, and actually, a lot of other politicians and commentators in many countries chimed in to fret, gnash their teeth, even foam at the mouth and scream to the heavens over this ‘catastrophic’ event: Trump as president of the US.
Part of the reason that Trump is so feared by elites is that he and some of the key people around him (daughter, Tillerson, Sessions) appear to want to do something about the very large problem of predation on children, call it sick, satanic, or whatever, that has a way of connecting to many powerful people in many countries but which seems to be a specially sick situation in the US.
Another key reason for the up to now unremitting attack on Trump – and incidentally, this demonization of Trump has led to countless incidents of more or less mental breakdowns by people at the mention of his name up here in Canada, and across the United States; as example we can recall the anguish that some university students in the US experienced at being exposed to the dreaded word ‘Trump’ on a staircase – is that he probably is in his heart of hearts an American nationalist. He wants borders! He ditches the sovereignty reducing TPP.
And who else in the room today is an avowed nationalist? Ah yes, the astute leader of Russia.
Notionalists are anathema to the NWO indeology, but popular and effective ones are especially disturbing. Thus Trump must be defeated.
So this was a ‘first date’ meeting of minds by two very powerful high profile nationalists, who again, happen to lead the two most powerful militaries on the planet, with final responsibility for the biggest nuclear arsenals. Pitted aganist them are those who are attempting to set up a supranational totalitarianism, the NWO shit.
Another reason for Trump’s unpopular status in the elite crowd is that he goes off script, sometimes a bit daft, sometimes a bit impish, sometimes brutally honest, etc, but not under control. So unpresidential! Trump is much more independent of scriptwriters than has previously been the ordained fashion in Amderican federal politics. Who knows what he’s going to say? Or worse, do?
International financial string pullers and globalist puppet masters and all those who are in effect governed by the thesis that they are the supranational special ones, the smartest ones, so it’s their world, and the rest of us are just vermin or slaves or suckers, cannot be happy to see Putin and Trump developing a relationship of sorts. Who knows where this leads? Who can say what complimentary visions and ‘team Putin-Trump’ dreams will visit Donald and Vladimir tonight?
And notice Tillerson chiming in with his ‘maybe the Russians got it right in Syria and we got it wrong’ sort of musing. That kind of momentary American dignitary lapse into honesty flavors the meeting-event with a new seasoning. It’s the kind of thing that Putin might have said!
I think it’s premature to jump to conclusions at this point in the proceedings of the Trump presidency. A really big question that will be answered over time is: is Trump capable of reasonably quickly learning the ropes and making sensible adjustments. The guy is a neophyte, green, surrounded by American cutthroats and weird and crazy powerful people who want to hobble him, control him, and best, get him out of there. But by all accounts he has a tough side, and is capable of some cunning. One question is: will Trump engender a growing body of effective nationalistic American allies?
Saker we just have to hangon the lord’s rope. He always finds a way out of the sea of problems out there for those who believe. Even if while holding a tree you wanted to plant the endtime bugle is blown just plant it. May Allah bless u & the Russian ppl.
Trump can do nothing on his own initiative. He must first pass neocon review.
Two hours is long enough to talk about solving problems and avoid escalation more like to say WWIII . So I believe as long as Trump had a chance and he didn’t do anything about it. So folks get ready for hot war! Now we can only think about when it happens . I believe sooner than I thought.
As being of Polish origin I also consider Polish people as the most stupid nation on this planet, blindfolded stooges of America
Bhadrakumar has a different view, an optimistic one
http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2017/07/08/trump-on-surge-redeems-pledge-on-russia-ties/
RT concurs
https://www.rt.com/news/395734-putin-g20-summit-presser/
What disturbs me about this whole Trump / Outin saga is the following
1. Russia has been lied too and deceived by the US continually
2. This deception has resulted in death of Syrian soldiers and civilians
3. Why does Putin keep going back to discuss things with them?
4. It comes across as some sort of addiction to abuse
5. Today we get Tikersons view of the meeting when he says Assad must go as part of a transition
We get Lavrov saying the opposite
I really get tired of trying to understand Russia and its objectives
Day-1: G20 Summit in Hamburg, Germany July 7, 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ7OCyGrxrk
Please Saker
Look at this interview with Paul Craig Roberts , it is jawdropping.
If you see any possibility , comment on it and put Mr.Putin on alert of this Interview.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnW9-NLAOiM
PCR has an elegant way of stating the obvious, that which everybody informed already knows.
When the topic of Russia comes up, PCR, without fail, turns into a raving lunatic, sharing his apocalyptic vision of the end of world with who ever cares to listen.
Sometimes Russia gets burned by heavenly fires, at other times Russia nukes Florida. Why Florida? That is the question I would put to PCR if I had him on the line…
The US has also instructed Ukraine to permit the MH-17 criminal case to go ahead. This case is based on the infamous Dutch (non-)investigation, which (un-)surprisingly concluded that the Donbass militia did it as claimed universally by the MSM within hours of the shoot-down.
Dear Saker:
Stephen Cohen disasgrees with you.
I am inclined to agree with Cohen.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/07/stephen_cohen_on_tucker_carlson_praises_trumpputin_meeting_as_most_important_summit_since_world_war_ii.html
Katherine
Unusually I find The Saker in the wrong end on the results of this meeting.
Considering the formidable enemies of détente between USA and Russia that Trump is facing, I think the meeting achieved what could be maximally hoped for.
Establishing dialogue forums for the future is significant seen in the context of the level of animosity and tension that currently define the relation. A relation that is dangerous at Cuban-missile crisis levels.
Below a link to interview with Professor Stephen Cohen who praises the results of the meeting…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGSZLZ6WYU8
A controversy I have not seen mentioned here that is rather strange. See these 2 articles for the background:
Tillerson: Special Representative for Ukraine Appointed Upon Putin Request
https://sputniknews.com/politics/201707071055349115-us-representative-ukraine-putin-request/
In Nuland’s Footsteps: US Names Ex-McCain Staffer as Special Ukraine Envoy
https://sputniknews.com/politics/201707081055361847-volker-ukraine-appointment-analysis/
The immediate obvious question is why would Putin request volker, a hostile, for the role? Second question is would Putin ask for a specific person to be appointed given the Russian government’s policies of non interference and adherence to diplomatic protocol? Seems out of character for Putin. Is tillerson lying?
I’m guessing that Putin requested that the u.s. appoint a new special representative for ukraine to replace the job left vacant since nuland’s departure. He didn’t request a specific individual, just that the post be activated again to better facilitate negotiations.
But then maybe Putin did request volker, knowing he would be as bad as nuland’s and thus inadvertantly further aide the ukronazi self destruction. ;-D
And immediately after the meeting, the US flies 2 B1 bombers along the DMZ to show they mean business.
The American President is unique. Because of the US ‘tripod’ constitution, only the ‘constitution’ has power over the president, and the US Supreme Court decides what the constitution rules- always giving the ‘benefit of the doubt’ to the President.
But, and it is a massive but, this situation means that the ‘character’ of the President is paramount. If the president is a ‘rock’ who knows his own mind, nothing short of assassination can deflect his power. This is the single sole reason Putin respects the office of President of the USA. The ***factual*** power the office represents if a strong determined man holds the position.
So Trump matters, and Trump is a mass of contradictions. Look at the guy prior to his victory- and sometimes he was a lion and sometimes the worst kind of ‘son of a rich man’. Putin has access to the best intelligence in the world, so knows Trump is never a simple ‘write-off’. But Putin, for his own reasons, is fatally releuctant to play the partner role Trump himself has repeatedly stated he is looking for.
At the G20, for instance, Trump was far keener to meet Putin than Putin was to ‘bro’ Trump- and this is Putin’s terrible mistake. Maybe it’s a cultural thing. Trump wants to be an alpha in the company of other alphas. But usually Trump is an alpha in the company of terrible zionist sharks- who use ‘yes man’ tactics to grind Trump down and make him give up in despair- allowing the zionist Deep State horrors to take over the true reigns of power.
Go read US History, and see how at the birth of modern America, many thinkers warned of the intentions of the ‘jews’- how they would subvert the intended US constitution by ‘infecting’ the ‘head’ with a civil-servant, media, legal, business take-overs- so their tiny minority would pull the strings.
Putin must be pro-active with Trump, but instead Putin always looks over his shoulder at the zionist mainstream media and ‘over-thinks’ the relationship. To work with Trump, and cause Trump to rise to his alpha potential, it needs to be ‘Putin and Trump together rule the modern world’. I get why Putin is uncomfortable with this role- but Putin has to get he’d just be playing a game- the only game where Trump can be guided into doing the ‘best’ things.
And the American people like results. And the American people like their troops home. Nothing the zionist/wahhabi Deep State has on its agenda is pleasing to the average US sheeple- nothing. The Deep State has growing, Tony Blair architected, police state power- but no other fundamental. But unchallenged, Blair’s move of the fictional world of 1984 into reality, is the perfect method for the demons to finally have their victory over Mankind.
Look at how most political yanks- even those of the ill-named ‘alt-right’, are chomping at the bit for war with N Korea, merely because of the never ending hate propaganda produced by the ‘friends of Israel’ and their BBC/CNN/NYT et al empire. The power of demonisation of ‘remote foreigners’ never fails to work when good men aren’t pro-active in their anti-war rhetoric.
So Putin either ‘bros’ it up with Trump, else Trump returns to being that ineffective ‘noodle’ who simply fronts whatever the zionist/wahhabi monsters desire. Trump’s genuine affection for Putin at the G20 shows the ‘good’ possibilities- but will Putin finally accept what he needs to do to control Trump for the good of Humanity?
There was already a ceasefire in place. US proxies broke it immediately of course but it was otherwise still holding days before the “big announcement” and used as a headline for the Trump Putin meeting. Fake news, drama, spectacle, theatre, etc.
It is worrying Putin never brought up US occupation of Syria and their violations against international law.
Reading the article and the comments, i could find it amusing if it wheren’t so sad, how most people, even here on this informed platform, still seem to have a complete Hollywood formed mindset in regards how they try to interpret such theater for the masses (g20).
Was there ever in the past (let’s say since WW2) a single big event like this, where anything what these actors from the powers that shouldn’t be performed, had actually mattered ?
Did they , just one time , gave us a hint of what they ALL are really up to in their doublenewspeak ?
Some do even still really think that the manufactured and published public opinion to steer the sheeples, has anything to do with the real wants and needs of the masses and more so that the powersTSB have to care about that…..
In my humble opinion and knowledge gained in my live, i know that nothing they obviously stage will lead to anything good and everything out in the public is controlled to make us think the way they need us to think.
The only straight forward direction which is obvious for anybody who’s not braindead is the one into some kind of one world government,
mass medication (macrons france just announced forced vaccination for children starting 2017)
and control of anybody,anywhere,anytime (heard of the 600mio cctv cams china is about to implement ???)
Who ever believes china and russia is more than part of the game, is exactly where they want him mentally to be! Also if you really still use left vs right paradigms, wake up, you are deeply out of touch with reality.
Atm the mass media in germany is, using the forced riots at the G20 (agent provocateurs anyone?) , full of propaganda to prepare the next stage of full control of the sheeple (like stationary posts for random searches of people all over every public space – see Bangkok for already full running example).
Whatever they publicly lie to us it doesn’t really matter, it’s just for distraction of the real things we first realise when they happen…….
Saker you are right in your assessment
Quote from Putins press conferencel
Putin is cautious – says more discussion needed
“We will be able to restore, at least partially the level of interaction that we need”.
– Putin Says US policy has not changed though Trump approach more pragmatic
I don’t know why Stephen Cohen is saying such positive things. Nothing has changed
There are now four or five areas of intense cooperation.
Syria, ceasefire zone in SW.
Cyber issues and cyber crimes. Study and action groups formed.
Ukraine. Minsk 2 affirmed by Trump as only solution. US puts person in place to deal with Kiev-Minsk 2.(Special Ambassador to psychotic Banderstan)
North Korea denuclearization agreed. Putin has solutions. Trump needs help.
ISIS will be a focus as Syria civil war is de-escalated. Possible coordination.
Of the 13 preparations listed, at least one of them was positive – Trump’s refusal to sign on to the Zionist climate change scam. And name me a president or PM in the non-former Warsaw pact EU who is not firmly controlled by the Zionist cabal, of which the Neocons in the USA are obviously one branch.
Nothing includes the absence of sparks, insinuations, open hostility, acrimony, yet the niceties of intention to collaborate in Syria, likely ‘nothing’, but the how it was said, as opposed to what was said that surpasses ‘nothing’.
So, here’s to celebrating even tiny victories in the face of the Empire’s onslaught towards global war.
We should acknowledge that for how Trump is doing so far, as POTUS, this episode is not that bad.
Congrads to Vlad and his peeps, who were undoubtedly working extremely diligently to pull off this small … token of the better direction.
There is something quaint and formidable about North Korea. The spectacle of its masses of young people, marching in formation, with happiness imprinted on their faces, looks like a scene from a musical. And yet, apparently, it is the mood of the country.
I certainly believe that life there is the opposite of what the discredited anglo-zionist propaganda portrays. Furthermore, North Korea is one of the few countries, if not the only one, that does not recognize Israel – which adds to the anglo-zio hatred.
Anyway, I cannot but feel immense empathy for a country that so uninhibitedly stands up to a huge bully.
Undiplomatically, but guts-wise, I wished Russia would respond more sharply to US arrogance and bullying insults.
Thank you, Saker, for your analysis. I am not a “prophet new inspired”, but I think that historical perspective, apart from anything else, suggests your conclusions to be right.
Au contraire, what came out of the meeting was extremely important – the cease fire is a big step towards the eventual carve up of Syria.
“Au contraire, what came out of the meeting
was extremely important – the cease fire is a big step towards the eventual carve up of Syria.”
Only if the US and its agents honor the cease fire.
I got three nice videos of Alt media on this Nothing or Something vs Everything is a Globalist Trick moment, the Hamburg Aftermath to gently chide the complainers.
Leo Zagami says the Jesuit Pope is worried. OK! I like that:
http://leozagami.com/2017/07/08/pope-francis-declares-he-fears-trump-and-loosing-control-of-the-nwo/
Cynthia McKinney and Catherine Austin Ftts discuss what really needs to be done to revive the US Presidency
https://youtu.be/IPaP8cBdukc?t=875 I cut the the chase 3/4 of the way through.
Just A Taste: Enforce the US Constitution with Dr. Cynthia McKinney The Solari Report
And last but not least, I am privileged to have been very personally acquainted with Harley Schlanger, for nearly a decade……who used to be based in Houston and LA, but is now based in Germany and has been in Hamburg the last few days.
He gives the most in-depth and productive analysis, IMHO….although the others are valiant fighters, as well. But Harley is a Jew that goes after the Zionists and Israel and has been in this fight for 45 years:
https://youtu.be/0xg8iWNFNBc
The World Is Changing,The US Will Collapse As A Civilization Unless We Change: Harley Schlanger
I dont have an axe to grind either way, in my career i have lived and worked with both Americans and Russians, good and bad as life is. I sincerely hope that we have a chance now if not to see peace directly but a truce and the first steps towards that goal desired by many of us. Your words often to me seem negative and i understand why, our current situation is truely miserable. I also appreciate that it is fun to speculate on what is and isnt being said/done, i do it all the time! But come on, how far did Obama get? What would you write if he and President Putin had sat down together for more than two hours? Nothing of course because it would never have happened. And what of Hillary? What if she had made president of the usa? What words would she have shared ? None but foul.
Trump may not be what people think he should be but then they are not in his shoes. For how long has this guy been a politician? Is he past the 100 days yet? Look at all the sh*t this guy has had to deal with, is it really any surprise he has made mistakes? Hes a real estate guy, a new yorker i for one am glad hes not some scumbag lawyer, makes a big change.
Why dont we wait and see, after all he is there talking and thats more than the other two idiots could or would do.
I think we’re about to see at minimum a full implementation of Ukraine’s end of Minsk, or even some type of fundamental change in Ukraine. Putin doesn’t usually reveal his hand in press conferences, but both him and Lavrov today at the G20 had markedly different tones regarding Ukraine after speaking with Trump and Tillerson. Lavrov remarked that everything was discussed positively in a “business like manner,” whereas Putin said that the Russian and Ukrainian people have the same interests. Notice the term “people” – not governments, not the Kiev authorities, “our partners in Kiev.” It’s a subtle shift in how they both came off today, but it could bode well for the situation over there.
Kiev cannot fulfill the Minsk 2 Accords. The Nazis will overthrow Porky. And he has no incentive to stop what he has been doing for 3 years. He gets richer, he is honored for his Russophobia.
It will never happen. Constitutional changes, elections, all-for-all prisoner exchanges, and amnesty for Donbass military.
Too much blood. Ain’t going to happen.
If the US wants to end it, stop NATO’s support and their own support. Kiev collapses. Change possible.
And that is almost an impossible policy. The Russophobes, the Khazarians, the neocons would take Trump down.
There has to be an internal failure that can’t be blamed on US policy. Then chaos in Kiev would lead to a geopolitical “new Ukraine”. Pieces sliced off and shared among the historic stakeholders.
Even if a step or two of the 13 steps were taken, it would be years to complete them all under the present politics.
Porky is on the verge of getting really significant US military equipment. I don’t see him stepping down.
With the Russian election coming next year and the World Cup, the Russophobes want a war on the border and as many pieces of crap to throw at Putin and Russia.
They are not going to give up and settle using Minsk 2.
There are thousands of criminal cases of murder, mass murder, torture, kidnapping and rape Kiev would have to cover up.
Any rational person looking at Ukraine would conclude, roll it up, cancel it, end it as a nation pre-Maidan. It’s a festering monster. Chopping it up is logical, doable and probable.
If Trump and Putin could sit and talk about only Ukraine, 15 minutes later, it would be gone.
But this is about Hybrid war, now intensified with the US goal of cutting into the natural gas markets, using sanctions to hurt Russian gas industry to help get a huge piece of the Russian market.
Why would the US give up Ukraine as a weapon to contain Russia?
All of your points are correct, I have no illusions about the US’s overall goals in Ukraine as the “prize” against Russia. What I mean is, Trump & Tillerson are probably smart/pragmatic enough to want to reverse this policy, and perhaps gave Putin & Lavrov some assurance that they would. The only problem is whether or not the rogue Pentagon/CIA won’t act to impede such a decision.
I don’t know about a carving up of Ukraine; while on the one hand it seems logical to have the Western part separated, the Russians seem to prefer federalization more than anything (Chechnya, proposals for post-war Syria). Again my comment is just noticing a change in tone from Putin & Lavrov, and being cautiously optimistic about some sort of diplomatic settlement.
The US is now the officially one side in the conflict in Syria because it has agreed to the ceasefire. It has just gained legal status and will refer to all legal decisions of the peace process. He will legally come out of Syria. Russia and Iran will take care of it. Without firing. They wanted to draw seamlessly using the “leading from behind” various terrorist groups which do not refer to recognized war rules not to mention about the use of tactical nuclear weapons.
Sometimes I almost feel sorry for these Americans, the Russians constantly thrust their legs.
It is logical that they do not want to cooperate with the Russians because the Russians are constantly “cheating” on them. And that is shameful. :-)
Second, sweet talks, invariably reminds me of crime movies where the bosses are very kind to each other until they go home dictating targets to their killers.
One thing strikes me for its not being mentioned in the western corporate media.
The cease-fire in the ‘south-west’ part of Syria. This is usually mentioned as being related to the actions a few weeks ago around Al-Tanf. But, I’m not so sure about this. The official statement was reported as ““In this zone [in southern Daraa, Quneitra and As-Suwayda provinces] the ceasefire regime will take effect on July 9 starting 12:00 Damascus time,” Lavrov said. “The US took an obligation that all the militant groups, located there, will comply with the ceasefire.”” https://www.rt.com/news/395632-us-russia-ceasefire-syria/
To me, what’s important about the areas mentioned is that this is where Israel had been very active in shelling in support of Al-Qaeda affiliated forces in the last week. I’d rather suspect this was a key point brought up by the official Syrian government before the G-20 meetings in conversation with the Russians. Having Israel openly attacking Syrian government army units would have been a flashpoint, and one that could have let to a bigger conflict.
Thus, I suspect the Russians brought this up during the Putin-Trump meeting. If the overall conversation was talking about how to keep Syria from blowing up into a bigger, wider war, then Israelis shelling Syrian units in SW Syria would be a part of the conversation.
Of course, Trump by now knows he has to tread very carefully around Israel, so its not postured directly as shutting down the Israeli shelling, but instead its posed more as a general cease-fire in SW Syria. Of course, if the Al-Qaeda affiliated offensive ends, then there is no reason for the Israelis to be shelling. And of course since Israeli-Saudi opinion greatly influences almost all news in western corporate media, the fact that the Israelis were threatening to explode this into a bigger war and that Trump and Putin just shut them down won’t be mentioned at all.
The second item of note is that the US just admitted that Al-Qaeda is under its control. Trump can agree in a quick and rather informal meeting that an Al-Qaeda affiliate will ends its offensive, and the US feels confident that it can represent to the President of Russia that the US will gurarantee that this will occur.
At the end of a smorgasbord of politics served up continental style I like an after dinner aperitif of Saker Bitters to aid the digestion, stiffen my slouching spine and temper my runaway naivete and optimism.
Then to top everything off near the end of the evening, I love to stop in at Cafe Escobar “para un cafecito” which gives me the optimistic energy, a few hours before sleep, to get in the mood to get up the next morning ready for anything:
http://www.atimes.com/article/putin-trump-stage-manage-win-win-meeting/ by Pepe Escobar
Norwegian.
Earlier Saker: «My biggest hope with Trump was that he would gently land the United States and more or less gently begin the process of converting the United States from an empire into, what I call, a ‘regular country’ even if it’s a very big one.»
I had the same hope as you. The difference is that I have not yet fully resigned like you. I have a theory (and a hope) that what we are witnessing is a kind of a strategi. Mostly stemming from Steve Bannons brain I guess.
Something like this: «If you can’t beat your enemies, join them.» When you have joined te warmongers and got some control you can gradually start to change.
Or: To drain a swamp you have to get into it. Its hard to change a strong organization from the outside.
Or: If you will change an organization you’ll have to be a member before you can eliminate it and leave.
I just wonder who hired and sent in them Militants, “the g20 welcome from hell” who went out to trash Hamburg? What political end were they to out to achieve?
http://www.repubblica.it/vaticano/2017/07/08/news/scalfari_intervista_francesco_il_mio_grido_al_g20_sui_migranti_-170253225/?ref=RHPPLF-BH-I0-C8-P4-S1.8-T1
Probably the same folks pushing the Vatican’s buttons, “worrying” about the G20 meeting’s impact to the immigrant problem to stoke fear amongst Euro members and pressure them to action.
Part of the Hegelian process, where a religous pope is calling for a federated Europe i.e. unification of the military and law enforcements, echoing Merkel. Wouldn’t change anything, except, it’ll be easier to control more than ever when individual nations give up their physical defenses willingly – by hook or by crook.
Starts slow with brigade level integration (which is already happening to the Bundeswehr) to mollify skeptics, with the full integration process probably taking 25-50 years (1-2 generations). Colonization in the 21st century, walk quietly and carrry a big stick …err carrot …err stick to achieve what Napoleon couldn’t :)
The engineered EU migrant flood was bait, now they’re reeling in the fish.
As a tool, preserved EU is more valuable than a broken up EU.
I agree not much. But Putin’s remarks about Trump seemed authentic and positive. Look, what can they do? Your list at the beginning shows what Trump is up against. He is not in charge of foreign policy yet. I am just reading how Kennedy had to let a small force go into ‘Nam area and bomb farms with chemicals to destroy soil even though he knew it was criminal and would escalate things but there were only so many times a year he could say no to them and remain in power. So Trump is not fully in power yet. The Russians can see this, it’s obvious. But I think they now know that Trump is trying to get into power and if he succeeds, then they can move forward together.
It’s not much, but it’s something. And it could have been worse.
I think they had something on Flynn which would have played so badly in the press and given all the uncontrolled leaking they had to let him go. But maybe you are right, Saker, and this was a simple case of wobbly betrayal.
He seems to be fighting by undermining the credibility of his enemies, at first by discrediting the MSM. There is something to this: the deep state players like Comey and Mueller depend upon a general perception that they are not only smart but honorable. As long as they control the media and that sort of image can be projected, Trump cannot really fight them. So image, as Agassi used to chime, is everything! I hope he can torpedo them all somehow and then bring Flynn back.
One small item I noticed somewhere early on but not oft covered since is that Russia asked for verification of this interference and Trump agreed. I hope he follows through on that. What is needed is an end to the endless investigations and a deadline: show us what you have by, say, August 1st. And then we will evaluate it and publish the results. Put up or shut up time.
well…. things are going according the usual script >>>
“Trump backtracks on deal with Putin on cyber security”
http://theduran.com/trump-backtracks-deal-putin-cyber-security/
Saker,
Interesting post from Russia Insider by Serey Markov dated July 11
One thing that is too obvious that it gets lost in the debate.
“So, how did we allow the international relations to be reduced to the level when it became so difficult to organize a meeting between the presidents of Russia and the US – even on the background of the two very dangerous armed conflicts (in Syria and in Ukraine)? Why is a contact between two politicians in the epoch of modern transportation and communication – why is this contact such a problem now?”
Trump is about to face the charges of the special prosecutor. Having betrayed his supporters on immigration, it is unlikely that any conservatives in senate or Congress will defend him. By January, he will likely have been impeached AND removed. So, who is this Pence, the next President? First, of all, unlike Trump, he is a decent guy. Unfortunately, he has long been in with the neoconservatives. However, he really is a decent guy. It might be an improvement. Time will tell.
The ‘special prosecutor’ you speak of is special alright. He ran the main cover for the Silverstein-Bush-Cheney demolition of the WTC.
If the unindicted mass-murderer and traitor Mueller, with his vast crimes, is allowed to remove Trump who has committed none, are you not concerned that Justice will have finally been killed dead in the USA? And it hardly matters who Pence is as the Talmudo-Satanists of the USA will have triumphed utterly.