by arras for The Saker blog
Ukraine is a country in the Eastern Europe, which doesn’t require introduction to most readers as it was and still is filling pages of the newspapers and screens of a TVs. Courtesy of ongoing geopolitical conflict between the United States and the Russian Federation there. Some say, this is a conflict between East and West and thus suggesting that it is not just a place of competition between the world great powers, but between cultures and civilizations.
This conflict isn’t new to Ukraine. Ukraine is one of those places, where history never falls asleep it merely takes short naps. After the last nap, which we call the Cold War, history is back in Ukraine, writing new pages full of dramatic lines.
However, Ukraine has a sister. It was on the front pages of the newspapers as well not long time ago and it is also rich with dramatic history. The fate and history of both, including the most recent history, bears remarkable similarity and many parallels. Parallels that I intend to show you.
The name of the “other” Ukraine is Krajina and a reader might remember it as a place in the Balkans, which was one of the frontlines of the civil war in Yugoslavia. Krajina is a part of Croatia, but historically it was inhabited by the Serbs. The name of Ukraine in the native Slavic languages is “Ukrajina” and thus the difference in the name is just a prefix “U”. That’s not by a coincidence. Ukrajina and Krajina are the virtually same word, just pronounced slightly different in different Slavic languages. In English, it means “edge”, “margin”, “frontier” or “borderland” and that’s exactly what Ukraine and Krajina were. They were one of those places where realms, cultures, civilizations and empires converged and clashed. Seems they still are, and because of that, Ukraine and Krajina were not just ordinary frontiers, they were military frontiers. Romans used to call such places as “limes” and in the Western Medieval Europe, they were called as “march” or “mark” – ruled by “marquis” and of the same etymological origin as the word “margin”.
Ukraine was a borderland between Russia, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and Crimean Khanate which itself was a remnant of the mighty Mongol Empire and at that time, it was a protectorate of the Ottoman Empire. Today Poland and Lithuania might seem like small countries compared to Russia while Crimean Khanate doesn’t even exist, but back in medieval and early modern era these were powerful realms vying for control over the whole region of the Eastern Europe. Krajina together with the similar region called Vojvodina on the other hand was a borderland between the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the Ottoman Empire. These places, were such powerful states, even religions and civilizations met weren’t the most peaceful ones and not very well suited for long prosperous life. They were in the state of almost perpetual conflict and war, because even if realms were in formal peace, irregular forces and local chieftains and feudal lords carried raids across the border seeking plunder or revenge, often with the silent consent of their sovereigns. Today we call it a hybrid war and plausible deniability. For that reason, such military frontiers had special status and were organized according to the military rather than civilian principles. Their purpose was to serve as a buffer zone, which was supposed to shield deeper inland territories from enemy attacks and raids and as a staging place for own attacks and raids against the enemy. Traditionally military settlers who had special status populated such territories. These settlers were typically freemen, as opposed to serfs in more secure territories and were exempt of taxes. Instead, they were obliged to carry military service on the border. Being half soldiers, half farmers, these men weren’t the best trained, equipped and disciplined comparing to the regular troops, but they were always available on the spot and required little or no pay as they supported themselves from their land which they supplemented with plunder from lands of the enemy.
These military settlers were often recruited from refugees. In the case of Ukraine, these were the peasants fleeing wars between Russia and Mongol Golden Horde in the east on the one hand and on the other advancing feudalization of Russia itself, which saw farmers being forced in to serfdom in the increasing numbers. Refugees were fleeing to the areas away from the main conflict and out of the reach of the central authorities. Here they begun to organize in to small communities and as soon as the situation in the central parts of Russia was consolidated and Russia has emerged victorious from the wars with Golden Horde and its successor khanates, these communities came in to attention of the Russian authorities who begun to utilize them as military settlers, giving them lands and tax exemption in return for the military service. Thus famous Cossacks were born. The word Kazak, which is Russian for Cossack, is of Turkic, not Slavic origin, and it is assumed to be originally describing nomadic mercenaries hired by the Russian princes to fight in their wars. Later it was used to describe men for hire, both in civilian and military roles and that is likely how it was originally applied to the people we now know as Cossacks.
It should be noted however that modern Ukraine is not identical to historical Ukraine. Historical Ukraine was much smaller compared to modern Ukraine and it never was official name of some administrative region with definitive borders. Not until the creation of the modern Ukraine at the end of the First World War. This term was vaguely applied to the lands that were bordering Russia, Poland-Lithuania and Crimean Khanate, border that kept changing with the fortunes in wars. Moreover, Russia did not had just one Ukraine, there were several ukraines and “little” ukraines (ukrajinka) all along Russia’s sensitive borders. There were ukraines in the west, on the territory of contemporary Belarus, there were ukraines in the south near Caucasus Mountains and there were ukrainas in the Eastern Siberia. Only in the north where Russia shared a border with polar bears, Russia did not have ukraine. However, as Russia kept growing in power, securing its borders or expanding them further, most of the other historical ukraines disappeared and the one that was left longest became The Ukraine. Consequently, Cossacks did not exist only in Ukraine, there were and in some cases still are other Cossacks. Cossacks on the rivers Volga and Don, Siberian Cossacks and Terek Cossacks in the Caucasus to name the most notable ones. Russians were not the only ones who recognized usefulness of Cossacks either, Poles and Tatars were actively using them as well. Cossacks themselves were keen on exploiting conflicts between those powers to extract political and economic advantages for themselves.
Delineatio Generalis Camporum Desertorum vulgo Ukraina cum adjacentibus Provinciis-General Draving of the Deserted Fields, vulgarly known as Ukraine together with its neighbouring Provinces by French cartographer Guillaume Le Vasseur de Beauplan (1600-1673), note that North is down and South is up): source: Wikipedia
Military settlers in Krajina on the other hand were recruited mostly from Serbs, Vlachs (Romanians) and Croats fleeing Ottoman Turks who conquered Constantinople, capital of the East Roman Empire (also known as Byzantium) and defeated the kingdom of Serbia and the fragments of Bulgarian empire in the Balkans and were aggressively pushing north towards the Central Europe engaging with Hungarians and Austrians. That’s how Krajina got its Serbian population. Just like in Russia, historical Krajina does not necessarily copy the borders of what is considered Krajina in Croatia today. And just like in Russia, there are other krajinas elsewhere in Balkans. Bosanska Krajina near Banja Luka, Timocka Krajina between Serbia and Bulgaria, to name a few. In 1881, with the danger of Ottoman incursions all but disappearing, Austrian Emperors dissolved Krajina as an administrative region and incorporated it in to the kingdom of Croatia.
Map of the Krajina (in red) cca 1800:source: Wikipedia
While Cossacks are widely known as famous horsemen, a few people know that Krajina, and neighboring regions of Balkans are where the other most famous light cavalry of Europe comes from. Not less famous Hussars. Hussars were originally irregular cavalry from Balkans. Hungarian kings and Austrian emperors who employed them in their armies introduced them to the Western Europe, where they were quickly copied and adopted by the other armies for their effectiveness. With the advent of firearms, European knights in their shining expensive armors, riding heavy warhorses were gradually withdrawn from the battlefields as European armies begun to appreciate less heavily armed cavalry in their place, which substituted speed and agility for direct protection and ambushes and flanking for charges in to the enemy front lines. And that’s where experience of combating Turks and Tatars of Asia who always preferred lighter cavalry came in handy. Through centuries of constant fighting, Cossacks and Hussars adapted themselves to the fighting methods of their opponents and adopted many elements of their equipment and tactics. Not everybody though served in the cavalry and contrary to popular belief, most Cossacks served as infantrymen. Horse, especially saddle horse back in those days was something that only the wealthiest Cossacks could afford.
Hungarian hussar in the 16th century. Woodcut by Jost Amman:source: Wikipedia
When Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian empires collapsed in the flames of the Balkan Wars and the First World War, which had aroused from the conflict over the Bosnia, Croatia and Serbia joined Yugoslavia, a new state that supposed to unite all the Slavic people of the Balkans. Krajina ceased to be a province on the edge and it seemed that history there would slow down. Nevertheless, history just took a nap. On April 1941, German army invaded Yugoslavia under Adolf Hitler’s orders and Yugoslavia quickly fell apart. In Croatia, with the support of the Germans, puppet state with the pro-German fascist political party of Ustashe in power was established. Ethnic cleansing campaign and persecution of Serbs and other minorities followed, and lasted until the defeat of Nazi Germany in the WWII. The exact number of Serbs who perished in those repressions is unknown, estimates vary between 300,000 and 500,000. About 50,000 alone died in one of the concentration camps in Jasenovac.
With the National Socialist Germany and their allies defeated, Yugoslavia was reinstated under the leadership of the Communist party and a war hero Josip Bros Tito. Whereas survived Nazi collaborators found a shelter under the wings of the US and British secret services in the West Germany, Canada, USA and Australia. Unlike Nazi scientists, they did not possess any great knowledge or technical skills, but experience of political repression and anti-guerrilla warfare were of the value for the CIA in the upcoming Cold War. The end justifies the means. Interestingly enough, Ustashe from Balkans found themselves thriving at the same centers and under generous tutelage of the same secret services of the same governments as Nazi collaborators from Ukraine – the infamous UPA (Ukrainian Insurgent Army) and its political leaders like Stephan Bandera. In some instances, political and cultural institutions of the Ustashe and UPA were located on the same streets, sometimes even inside the same buildings of Western cities like Munich. Just like Ustashe, the WWII records of UPA are full of the ethnic cleansings, mass murders and war crimes against civilian population that did not fit UPA’s racial and ethnic standards. Now they were to be sustained like bacteria of a biological weapon on a Petri dish in CIA laboratories, waiting for their time.
Ironically, their time did not come during the Cold War, even when there were some failed attempts to utilize them. Their time came with the end of the Cold War and fall of the Communist rule in the Eastern Europe and the collapse of the Soviet Union. The easiest way to destroy multinational country is to start ethnic conflicts between the peoples of a country itself and let them destroy it themselves. Under Tito, who himself was from mixed Croat-Slovenian family, stability was maintained between the various ethnic groups dwelling in Yugoslavia, but that balance was fragile and rested to a large extend on the authority of Tito himself. With his death, the institutions of the state and the way Yugoslavia was constructed came for a test.
Yugoslavia was constructed as a federation in such a way, as to prevent any one of the constituent nations from dominating the state. Serbs were always the most numerous and therefore strongest nationality in Yugoslavia and other nationalities, particularly Croats and Slovenians feared that Serbs would dominate the state. Not without a good reason either as interwar Yugoslavia indeed ended up being dominated by the Serbs and their elite. To prevent that, in post war Yugoslavia, Serbia was divided in to four parts: republics of Serbia and Montenegro and autonomous regions of Kosovo and Vojvodina. Later three had significant non-Serbian ethnic minorities. That accomplished the goal of creating a balance between the powers of national republics inside Yugoslavia, but it inevitably created feeling of injustice among the Serbs. It was only Serbia which was divided and weakened in such a way, neither Croatia, nor Bosnia or Macedonia were divided even if they too had regions with ethnic minorities present. Serbs in Krajina were an example and Bosnia was heterogeneous to such extent, that it was sometimes nicknamed as Little Yugoslavia.
After period of unsuccessful Communist experimenting with creating single Yugoslav supranational identity, which would replace individual nationalities, Tito and his Communists went the other way and in the new constitution of 1974 tried to placate nationalist sentiments by bestowing more power on to the republics and strengthening autonomy of the regions. In Voivodina, Montenegro and Kosovo that led to an increasing cultural, economic and political pressure against Serbs who became convinced that system inside Yugoslavia works at their expense and they are loosing. In Kosovo where Albanian population was steadily increasing due to immigration from Albania and higher birth rates, issue was especially sensitive because Serbs consider Kosovo to be historical cradle of their civilization.
But any attempts to change the situation by the Serbs, inevitably led to the reaction in the other republics creating endless spiral of increasing suspicion and tensions between the republics. With the economy and central institutions weakened by the gradual decline in the power of the Communists and change of the political and economic situation in the whole of Eastern Europe, it required only a gentle push from the outside to spark ethnic conflict. That’s were Ustashe and other similar groups been held in the reserve during the Cold War in the West were finally put to a good use. Under disguise of democracy and freedom of speech, they were re-imported back in to their countries of origin along with the literature and propaganda created around their ideologies in the Cold War exile thanks to the generous US and German sponsorship. Money from Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries played similar role in the Muslim communities of Yugoslavia.
Eventually it brought yields. Spinning in spasms, in 1990 Yugoslavia has arrived at the cliff when constitutional crisis completely paralyzed federal institutions, including Communist party itself. Republics were fighting each other. The only significant federal institution left willing to defend Yugoslavia was its army. However, army required an order from politicians to start acting, and there was no one to issue it. Yugoslavia was going to dissolve. The only question was how and when.
Anybody remotely familiar with Yugoslavia, knew, that if it would be done in unilateral uncontrolled manner, it would lead to a war. Only in Slovenia, the administrative borders were identical to the ethnic borders. The rest of Yugoslavia had ethnic minorities living all over the place. This was also well known in Washington and Berlin. Despite, or may be because of it, Washington and Berlin chose exactly this option even against the warnings from other European capitals. Berlin was the first to recognize independent Slovenian and Croatian states and hence British diplomats unofficially named the war that begun immediately in Croatia as “Gensher’s war“, after German foreign minister at that time Hans-Dietrich Gensher.
Single picture that explains civil war in Yugoslavia:source: Wikipedia
When Croatian government declared independence from Yugoslavia in 1991, Serbs of Krajina in response declared their own independence from Croatia. All peoples have equal rights for independence. Right? Wrong. “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others” to paraphrase George Orwell and his famous book. Everybody likes to be independent himself, but not when others want to be independence at his expense. Croats are no different and independence of Republic of Serbian Krajina, which is how Serbs named their new country, was met with more than a strong disapproval in Zagreb, the capital of Croatia. A conflict flared almost immediately and it set off bloody civil war that engulfed other parts of Yugoslavia, eventually ending its existence.
When declaring independence, the most important thing isn’t who has the right for independence and who does not, the most important thing is who supports it. And here Serbs of Krajina were placed at a disadvantage because they were supported only by small Serbia, which itself was having plenty of problems inside, while Croats were supported by several world’s most powerful countries – USA, Germany and the entire NATO alliance. Serbs held for several years, but at the end fight was just too uneven. It ended when Croatian forces supported by the USA and Germany overrun Serbian lines manned mostly by local militiamen on August 1995 and proceeded to ethnically cleanse Krajina of its Serbian inhabitants for good. Up to 1500 of them lost their lives, 2/3 of that number were civilians and up to 200,000 had to flee to Serbia and Bosnia. It was one of the two places in former Yugoslavia, where an entire historical region was ethnically cleansed of its population during the civil war. The other region being ethnically cleansed of Serbs was Kosovo, also with the support of the USA and it’s allies. The irony that is still carefully hidden from the public by the politicians and journalists in Washington, London and Berlin who worked tirelessly to convince people in their countries that those are Serbs who perpetrate crime of ethnic cleansing and had to be stopped by noble and smart bombs, enriched with uranium. Everyone else were portrayed as victims. It was a deliberate lie. Even supposed plan of ethnic cleansing of Albanians in Kosovo by the Serbs, named “Operation Horseshoe” which served as a pretext for bombing of Serbia itself by the NATO forces, was after the war exposed as entirely fabricated by the German secret service BND with the help of Bulgarian government. To be sure, there were plenty of cases of local ethnic cleansing, perpetrated by all sides of the civil war, Serbian one including, but not on the scale of the entire historical regions like Krajina or Kosovo. Nevertheless, ethnic cleansing wasn’t the real reason for the intervention, the real reason was that USA, Germany and EU wanted Yugoslavia to be gone and Serbs in Krajina and Kosovo stood in their way. Yugoslavia was too large to be incorporated in to the EU and NATO, one has to join the EU and NATO as weak as possible and under the conditions favoring those who are in charge of the EU and NATO. Conditions that demand political, economic and cultural subordination and transfer of the control over national resources and markets to the global corporations. Corporations of the global Empire. Therefore, Serbs of Krajina and Kosovo had to go. All of them. Yugoslavia had to be broken in to small pieces and pieces then digested by the Empire one by one until the whole Balkans had “proper” democracy, endorsed “proper” values and values were “protected” by the US military base or two. Divide et impera, Romans used to say.
The conflict in Ukraine is driven by exactly the same motives and reasons and using the same old methods and the same propaganda tricks. Timed bombs in the form of the arbitrary changes of the administrative borders made by the ruling Communist elite blew up during break up of the USSR too, as well as their policies of creating new Soviet people. Former Nazi collaborationist were also used to instigate ethnic hatred. Place Soviet Union instead of the Yugoslavia, Russians instead of Serbs, Ukraine instead of Croatia, Donbas and Crimea instead of Krajina and Kosovo and the story is almost identical. Ukraine and Krajina share similar history once again. Almost. With the exception that the Soviet Union was much larger than Yugoslavia, Russia is much larger than Serbia, and Russia has powerful allies in the world of its own. A victim turned out to be too big and vital and the Empire appears to suffer major digestive problems as a result. Will Ukraine end up sharing the fate of its sister after all?
Or will Ukraine turn out to be one mouthful too many? One thing is certain, history did not stop. History has no end. Prophets of the Empire has been proven wrong.
arras‘s mini-bio: HIC SVNT LEONES
https://www.voltairenet.org/article205314.html
On the jail-worthiness of French politicians with regard to Syria
This is the first historical overview of the recent Balkan wars that makes coherent sense to me, someone who was utterly confused at the time by the deliberately obscurantist reporting of the conflicts, despite attempting to get a rudimentary understanding. Thanks for that, arras, a most helpful essay to me.
Unfortunately, the exact number of Serbs that have perished by the hands of Croatian and Bosniak Ustashe in the WWII genocide perpetrated by the combined ‘effort’ of the Croatian regime and the catholic church is far greater than 300,000 to 500,000 as claimed here. The number of Serbs killed in the concentration camp of Jasenovac alone (labelled as ‘a work camp’ by both the Ustashe and the present day Croatian governments) was estimated in the early 1950’s to be not less than 700,000, based on the thickness of the layers of human bones in the mass graves observed in the aerial photos. Besides those, an undetermined number of human bodies (some of them still alive) was burned in the brick ovens in the nearby brick factory or dumped in the river Sava. Actually, the Sava was so much polluted by the bacteria from the rotting human flash that a number of deaths from related diseases was recorded in the city of Belgrade, some 400 km downstream oj Jasenovac..
Dušan Jovanović
Interesting, but not entirely accurate article. Yes, the name of Ukraine is derived from the Slavic word “krajina”, which means frontier region. From “krajina” you derived at “Ukrajina”, and from “Ukrajina” you derived at Ukraine, which was Russia’s western frontier region.
Ukraine as such does not have any historical reason to exist as a sovereign state, bearing in mind that the original Russia had Kiev as it’s capital. Historians like to misrepresent this fact, calling the original Russia “Kievian Rus”, which is absurd. When Russia had Kiev as it’s capital, Russia was then quite simply called “Rus”, or Russia.
When it comes to the former Yugoslavia, the author has made a number of mistakes. First of all, the Krajina military region of the Austrian empire was made up entirely of Serbs. Even the famous Nikola Tesla was born in it. The region was not just made up of Serbs from what is today’s Serbia. Yes, some Serbs from the territory of what is current Serbia did go to Krajina, but the bulk did not. The bulk of those who emigrated, went to Russia. For example, Natalia Vladimirovna Poklonskaya, the former prosecutor in Crimea, is of Serbian origin. Many Russians in the Donbass region are of Serbian origin, while at the Battle of Borodino in 1812, general Katuzov commanded Russian generals of Serbian origin, like general Miloradovich. The Serbs of Krajina were made up of Serbs from Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and from what is today Croatia, bearing in mind that the bulk of Croatia is built on Serbian lands. Zagreb, the Croatian capital, is the former Serbian town of Za Breg. All Dalmatians in Croatia are former Orthodox Serbs who were converted to the Catholic faith. If not, then how do you explain Orthodox monasteries in Croatia, like the monastery of Krka.
Secondly, Bosnia does not have minorities. Before the Turkish invasion, Bosnia and Herzegovina was 100 % Serbian in ethnic composition, and because of this fact Bosnia and Herzegovina was in 1375 united with the Kingdom of Serbia, a point which the author does not mention. There is no such thing as the Bosnian ethnic group, nor the Bosnian language. The only language spoken in Bosnia is Serbian, and Serbs, Muslims and Croats speak it. Maybe the author can explain why Muslims in Bosnia have Serbian Slavic surnames.
Thirdly, in the concentration camp of Jasenovac at least 709,000 Serbs were massacred, and not the absurdly low figure of 50.000 which the author mentions. Due to this policy of genocide, the Serbian population in Bosnia and Herzegovina was reduced from first to second place. This genocide also included the genocide of Serbs in Croatia, on the territory of the former Krajina. Quite recently Professor Gideon Greif, chief researcher of the Holocaust Institute in Israel, has written a well documented book on Jasenovac, stating that more than 800.000 Serbs perished in it, killed by the most horrible methods. Yes, Croats will state that this is nothing but a “conspiracy theory”. However, Croatian authorities are facing a huge problem, because the massacred Serbs were never cremated. Their remains are still buried in Jasenovac. There were numerous calls for the Jasenovac concentration camp to be exhumed. This was denied.
What is he future of Ukraine ? I don’t think it has one, as it’s an artificial creation. There is no such thing as the Ukrainian language, just like there is no such thing as the Bosnian language. The Ukrainian “language” has 90 % Russian words, the remaining 10 % being a mixture of Polish and Western words. By December of 2017, 4 million Ukrainians had fled to the West and 4.4 million to Russia, many being professional people by training. Why did they flee to Russia ? Because they knew that they are of Russian origin. At least 75 % of current Ukraine is built on historic Russian lands, the remainder built on the lands of the former Galicia. I think that Ukraine’s days are numbered. It will, in the end, break up. At least 75 % of the territory will return to Russia. The rest will become a subject of contention between Poland and Hungary.
Dusane u nas u Hercegovini kazu: ne seri vise nego sto mozes pojesti. a ti ga pa cak i za dobrog cetnika pretjera.
Google translation,MOD-Dusan tells us in Herzegovina: no more than what you can eat. and you and even for a good cetnik of exaggeration.
Milutin Bubis
What Dušan Jovanović wrote is true. Read my comment. Then inquire who Professor Gideon Greif is. He recently wrote a book about Jasenovac.
Since very little one may know he/she would still write some article with no evidence in it. However, whoever is interestinting in such facts as Uraine was first mentioned in “літописи” аt 1200 and that Ukraine was situated on a map since 1500 while russia was named moskovia at that time, may find it fascinating with so many attempts to reinterpret ones history for own benefits
The last time I looked up Jasenovac, the Croat propagandists had changed history to claim that it was Croats killed there, by Serbs, mostly after the war. ‘Oh, brave new world…’.
Dusane, znas li koliko su cetnici poklali muslimana u istocnoj Bosni u 2. Svjetskom ratu? Nije problem naci podatke srbijanskih autora: pogledaj pod Foca, Gorazde, Ustikolna itd. I onda broji pobijene Srbe. Zvanicna politika Srbije je bila 1/3 pokolji, 1/3 protjeraj i 1/3 asimiliraj, kao sto stoji u Nacertanije.
Google translation,MOD-Dusan, do you know how many Chetniks were slaughtered by Muslims in eastern Bosnia in the Second World War? It’s not a problem to find the data of Serbian authors: look at Foca, Gorazde, Ustikolna, etc. And then count the killed Serbs. The official Serbian policy was 1/3 of the massacre, 1/3 of the expulsion and 1/3 assimilation, as it is said in the Nacertania.
Milutin Bubis
I am wondering what your real name is. What you wrote about 1/3 of each is what the Croatian Ustasha regime planned to do with Serbs. You just substituted Serbs for Croats.
Sve do pred kraj 19.stoljeca u Bosni su zivjeli jedino Bosnjaci,koji su bili triju vjera muslimani katolici i pravoslavci:
Bošnjak katolicke vjeroispovijesti fra. Ivan Frano Jukić (1818-1857), koji je koristio pseudonim Slavoljub Bošnjak, koji je u svom proglasu 1848. godine zapisao:
“Mi Bošnjaci njekad slavni narod sad jedva da smo živi nas samo kao očenutu glavu od stabla slavjanskog gledaju priatelji naukah i žale nas…. Vrime je da se i probudimo od dugovične nemarnosti; dajte pehar, te carpite iz studenca pomnje mudrost, i nauk; nastojte da najpred naša serca očistimo od predsudah, fatajmo za knjige i časopise, vidimo što su drugi uradili, te i mi ista sredstva poprimimo, da naš narod prosti iz tminah neznanstva na svitlost isitne izvedmo.”
Čitav ovaj fenomen,u svojoj čuvenoj pjesmi “Pjesma Bošnjaku” koju je objavio list “BOŠNJAK” u izdanju od 2. VII, 1891 godine,opisao je i Safvet-beg Bašagić riječima:
Znaš Bošnjače, nije davno bilo,
Sveg’ mi sv’jeta nema petnaest ljeta,
Kad u našoj Bosni ponositoj,
I junačkoj zemlji Hercegovoj,
Od Trebinja do Brodskijeh vrata,
Nije bilo Srba ni Hrvata.
A danas se kroz svoje hire,
Oba stranca ko u svome šire. […]
Oba su nas gosta saletila, Da nam otmu najsvetije blago,
Naše ime ponosno i drago.
…and my real name is your problem? You can’t imagine that a Serb can speak truth.
==========================
Google-translate by Mod:-
Until the end of the 19th century, only Bosniaks lived in Bosnia, who were the three faiths of Catholics and Orthodox Christians:
Bosniak Catholic Confessor Fr. Ivan Frano Jukic (1818-1857), who used the pseudonym Slavoljub Bosnjak, who in his proclamation in 1848 wrote:
“We Bosniaks are now the famous people now that we are barely able to live us just like the headless head of the Slavic tree watching the scholars of science and complaining to us …. It’s time to wake up from debt carelessness; give the cup, and the wings of the wilderness, the wisdom, and the doctrine; try to cleanse our sercents from prejudices in the first place, falsify books and magazines, see what others have done, and take the same means for us to make our people free from the darkness of ignorance on the outrightness of the outcome. ”
In his famous poem “The Song of Bosniaks” published by the “BOŠNJAK” newspaper published in the 2nd of September 1891, Safvet-beg Bašagić described the phenomenon as well:
You know Bosniaks, it was not long ago,
There are no fifteen years of my life,
When in our Bosnia proud,
And to the heroic land of Herzegovina,
From Trebinje to Brodski Gates,
There were no Serbs or Croats.
And today, through your hire,
Both foreigners who spread in their own. […]
Both of us were a guest of the salons, Let us take away the most holy treasures,
Our name is proud and glad.
It is silly to take Vatican papist as a source of true history. Vatican and Vatican only is the main culprit for a fake and distorted history.
No Vatican source ever claimed the true.
Therefore, blabbering of that particular papist is not to be taken seriously, particularly not as a source of history.
Following is a Serbian translation.
Evo i na srpskom da me razumes ;
Poznato je da su Vatikan i vatikanski papisti lazirali istoriju. Dokazi za to su brojni. Ozbiljan covek ne moze uzeti lupatanja nekog fratra za naucni dokaz.
Toliko o tome.
Arras casts much needed light on that dark area where History is napping like a cat or a dog — with one eye open ready to spring. Even Slavs may benefit from this clear exposition. I first heard of The Krajina from a Serb during the NATZO putsch in Ukraine, who told me that her grandmother had told her the word but not the details.
Although I was appalled when Germany lit the fuse to Yugoslavia’s multi-ethnic powder keg by recognizing Croatian Independence, I thought it was an act of mere stupidity and mindless vandalism — like smashing a street light or startinga pub fight — but Arras says here it was a deliberate NATZO plot to destroy Serbia. Does the author seriously imply that NATZO now intends to use “Ukraine” to carve up Russia the way NATZO used the Krajina to carve up Serbia?
NATO is just an instrument, I don’t think NATO itself want something per see, those who run NATO however do.
I see two main purposes those that run NATO seek in Ukraine:
1. To cut Russia from EU and block economic links between the two. Especially energy transfers (gas and oil). EU, especially Germany and Russia are in many ways economies that supplement each other, EU needs Russian energy and Russia needs EU’s technologies and investments, especially in industrial spheres. Economic cooperation which would probably sooner or later lead to political and security cooperation or even some form of unification is a nightmare in Atlanticist circles both in the EU and USA. Here one have to note that cutting is going on two levels -physical, as in blocking the trade by the regime in Kiev and non physical by using alleged wrong doings of Russia in Ukraine as a means to force EU countries to adopt economical sanctions against Russia and thus cut trade between them and Russia themselves.
2. To use Ukraine as a fuse to blow up Russia. Ukraine is historically better known as “Little Russia” and while that name is of Greek origin and means the same thing as “Little Asia” (Asia Minor), that is “Asia or Russia CLOSE to Greece”, the name newer the less describes well it’s nature. Political and cultural processes inside Ukraine often mirror those in Russia and both are interconnected on multiple levels, starting with the family ties (I am yet to meet Russian who does not have some family in Ukraine) to culture, economy and politics. People in Russia are interested in what’s going on in Ukraine and Ukrainians are interested in what’s going on in Russia. People popular in Russia are often popular in Ukraine and vice versa. Ukrainians watch Russian media and vice versa. Despite borders, it still is basically one cultural and economic space. When attempts of colour revolution in Russia failed, with the last attempt during 2012 presidential elections, it was probably decided to colour revolution much less stable Ukraine and then to export it to Russia. Russian liberal opposition made no secret that they support Majdan coup in Kiev in 2014 and they see it as an inspiration. Number of Russian liberal oppositionists went to Ukraine and work for current government there.
That however backfired badly because attacks at the Russian speaking community in Ukraine by the new regime and especially by the Ukrainian “nationalists”, so called “Banderites” after their WWII leader Stephan Bandera. Russian public reacted very sensitively to it, because as i sad, those who came under attack were relatives to many Russians, and in reaction Russian public united around their government. Moreover many Russians who were dissatisfied with their government realised that “Ukrainian scenario” is much worst alternative and lost appetite for any similar undertaking in Russia.
The plot to destroy Yugoslavia was quite deliberate. It commenced when the US-controlled ‘economic hit-men’ of the ‘Washington Consensus’, the World Bank and IMF began insisting on dealing with the Yugoslav Republics separately, not long after Tito’s death. Then, after the Gorbachev catastrophe, the West German Nazi successor regime rewarded its former allies in Croatia and Slovenia for their war-time service by recognising their ‘independence’. The West Germans were joined by the Vatican, under the patron saint and protector of priestly paedophiles, Wojtyla, for the same reasons. We must recall here that the Vatican was central to the ‘rat-lines’ that allowed fascists like the Croat butcher Pavlic et al, to escape justice after WW2, providing disguises, sanctuary in monasteries etc, and Vatican passports etc. Then, once you had a cadre of butchers in each region, aided and abetted by the West and the fascist emigre’ communities in Canada, Australia and the USA principally, to attack their neighbours in a multi-ethnic, multi-faith, society, civic bloodshed was inevitable. ‘Divide and Conquer’ strategies are as old as the hills. In Bosnia the USA aided the process by flying al-Qaeda Wahhabists in, including Osama bin Laden, to butcher Serbs and Croats under the rule of former Islamofascist ally of the Nazis (he was a member of the Waffen SS-Handschar Division), Izetbegovich,and launching a filthy and massive anti-Serb propaganda blitz, repeated in Kosovo to support the jihadist, drug-trafficking, sex-slave trafficking, human organ supplying to order, monsters of the KLA. And in Krajina, the Croat blitzkrieg and massive ethnic cleansing, over which the western fakestream media presstitute scum shed not one tear and immediately consigned to the ‘Memory Hole’, was aided and abetted in the planning by US Army ‘private contractors’.
Thank you for mentioning Vatican and Catholic Church. Not enough is said about their role in formatting the hate amongst Croats towards Serbian population and their overt policy (Croatian in execution, Catholic in idea) of “… killing one third, expelling one third and converting the rest…”. Unspeakable crimes were committed by most deranged psychopaths in catholic robes. And they are still unpunished…
“Although I was appalled when Germany lit the fuse to Yugoslavia’s multi-ethnic powder keg by recognizing Croatian Independence, ”
As a half German, fluent in German, having lived in Germany, I too “noticed” this—that is, the speed with which Germany recognized Croatia as a sovereign state. That is, I wondered . . .
I couldn’t help seeing a few dots that might be connectable between that event and Croatia’s Nazi–fascist-Ustashe past. But no motive for Germany to support modern-day Croatia’s hiving itself off from Yugoslavia was apparent.
Katherine
“I couldn’t help seeing a few dots that might be connectable between that event and Croatia’s Nazi–fascist-Ustashe past. But no motive for Germany to support modern-day Croatia’s hiving itself off from Yugoslavia was apparent.”
a huge mistake is made by promulgating this idea, and all who are holding on to it, croats as well
as serbs are thinking emotionally and are just deluding themselves:
sure, croats have a nazi ustashe past, but that wasn’t the reason germany supported croatia’s “independence”
the reasons were:
1. to remove the yougoslav socialist system – an alternative to the neo-liberal system,
2. to break up the country to make it more controllable and “digestible”,
3. to bankrupt state owned companies – that were competition to the western big corporations,
4. to take over the market-space, for western products and debt instruments
5. to siphon off the best & brightest, as well as skilled work-force into the western economies
the croats delude themselves that the germans have their backs – because they do not –
croats are loosers as well in all of this too
the serbs delude themselves that the germans hate them specially (for whatever reason) – because they do not – the germans treat everybody as untermenschen
only when both sides realize the above, can they start to free themselves
Excellent article! As previous posters wrote, the first to make some sense of the confusing information on the subject. I wish, however, that sources were provided for verification and further exploration.
It’s subject that cowers such a long period of the history and is so complex that sources would take more pages then the text itself. I was trying to give just very broad overview, touching many things on surface only because going in to details would be impossible in this scope. Most of the things I described in single sentences would take books to deal with properly.
Moreover I am not professional historian and I by no means pretend this to be a proper historical study. I don’t keep lists of sources which I could readily use, in many cases I would have to go and re search them on internet and in the press again.
However if any particular part interests you, ask away, If I can, I can provide sources or at last direct you to places where you can find more information.
Well, actually the number of volumes written about these subjects can fill the shelves of a large library. But for Western scholarship, ‘Romania’ (the so-called Byzantium, but modern Romania as well) and the Balkans are a black hole populated by a subspecies of humanoids (quite black, you know) without history and culture (the ‘Balkaniks’) who oppose all the generous efforts of the enlightened (white) parts of the world to fully humanize them by offering them their ‘values’.
Anyhow, not worth to waste time studying them.
Anon, thanks for saying that. I was thinking about commenting on that subject. Just like the attempt of hijacking the name Makedonia the name Romania was also hijacked. Let me remind you all:
Poland calls this country Rumunia, which is correct as Greeks call it “Ρουμανία – Rumania”. The name Romania is the name Greeks use for Byzantium, and Turks still call Greeks by that name, Greeks used to but now it’s illegal in Ellas, although it’s still used by Greeks from the territories which used to be Byzantium (including Ellas, Vlachia).
Enjoy this beautiful Ode dedicated to the fall of Constantinople in 1453 called “Πάρθεν η Ρωμανία” => Romania taken.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpIhgMSp9tE
or this in classic Pontic Greek:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGfxmpJvX8Q
Grateful for the overview of Yugoslavia history. Made it much easier to place near past history in its proper context.
While the article is interesting, I have few comments to make:
I am going to start with Yugoslavia, since this seems to be you subject, as opposed to your Wikipedia map I suggest this one:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/map/yugoslavia/
If you click on 1900 you will see no Croatia, but Serbia only. Then click on 1945 and see the handywork of Tito. I admit I was interested in maps only, hence I haven’t bothered reading the text.
The map below shows Walachia as it was in 1500
https://www.euratlas.net/history/europe/1500/entity_5170.html
Check the blue (Polish kingdom in those days. I’ll get back to it below)
Check this Polish queen (Vlach => Greek!) which was sainted later, Walachia (which you call Romanian (you wish as Romania was created in mid-1800’s)) I’ll use Wikipedia for simplicity (this page doesn’t even exist in Greek) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yolanda_of_Poland
Her mother’s side => King of Vlachia (Θεόδωρος Ι Λασκάρης). Actually Poland had more Hungarian kings that they would like to admit.
Okay lets get back to the subject: Cossacks. Without getting into history
lessons, Hetman Chmielnicki revolted against Poland and joined up with Tsar of Russia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohdan_Khmelnytsky
Notice that this page does not show his name in Russian, interesting isn’t it? Oh yes, Hetman isn’t a name it’s a position. Cossacks proved themselves to be extremely efficient and feared soldiers in Russian Army. I think Putin just recently restored their rights, which they had in pre-Communist times.
Well noted Anonius.
No big surprise there. SFR Yugoslavia was basically an incubator for Croatian, Albanian and Bosnian Muslim nationhood. Muslims became an ethnicity under Tito.
Serbia emerged as the victor after WWII, but with the creation of Yugoslavia we lost territory to those Balkan minorities who were allied with Hitler. We were told that the borders were “only administrative, internal borders”. Until they weren’t! Like that border with Russia and Crimea.
It is a historical fact that Tito himself was a protege of Churchill during WWII. He succesfully accomplished the AZ empire’s objectives in the western Balkans which was to dilute and break-up the Serbs, the largest Christian orthodox people in that region.
Many people refer to NATO attack as an attack on Yugoslavia but it was in fact an attack on Serbia.
Thank you for the clarification and on the role of Tito. This is only the second time I read that he was the protegé of Churchill. I don’t know why this fact is so well hidden from the public at large. It explains many things…We can even say that the seeds of the partition of Serbia (or its shrinking) were planted way before the 1990’s. In history, things rarely happen by accident.
Yes he was Churchill’s stooge.
Initially Churchill supported the original anti-axis hero, Draza Mihailovic, a Serb and leader of the Chetniks. By 1943, the terrible atrocities committed by the Catholic church on the Orthodox population in the Balkans was starting to leak, especially re Jasenovac concentration camp, run by Croat Ustashe, and established in 1941.
Churchill understood that he would need the Vatican in the subsequent Cold War against Stalin. So he threw his support behind Tito, a secondary anti-axis military leader, half Croat, half Slovene, who had Mihailovic captured and executed, and absorbed the Chetnik fighters into his newly- created Partisan movement. After the war, he then established the “brotherly” state of Yugoslavia, effectively brushing the crimes of the Vatican & their Croat goons under the proverbial carpet.
The rest is history as they say.. The gamble paid off very well. The Vatican (and subsequently Pope John Paul II) were then celebrated as the West’s heros against the Soviet Union..
http://orthodoxhistory.info/restoring-the-historical-truth/the-wests-long-war-against-serbia/
Croatia did not exist in 1900. Croats were split between Austria and Hungary. But you skipped 1941 when the Independent State of Croatia was created by the Ustashe. Not the ‘handywork of Tito’ (himself an Austro-Slav).
It is not clear what you want to demonstrate with Yolanda of Poland. She had absolutely nothing to do with ‘Vlahs’. Her father was a Hungarian King (Bela IV) and her mother, Maria Laskarina, was the daughter of the ‘Byzantine’ Emperor Theodor I Laskaris, not a ‘King of Vlachia’ (who never existed). You confuse him with Ioannitsa Assan, called Kaloyan, who sported himself “Emperor of the Bulgarians and Vlachs” in Bulgaria, following the revolt of the Vlahs and Bulgarians against the ‘Greeks’. At his time ‘Vlahia’ or rather the “Vlahies’ were south of the Danube, in Bulgaria, Thessalia, Epirus, Macedonia. The north-danubian ‘Walachia’ emerged as a state at the beginning of the 14th century and had nothing to do with the Greeks, who came later (18th century) as tax collectors for the Ottomans (some getting exceedingly rich in the process).
Of course Vlach=>Greek exists only in the imagination of some chauvinistic Greeks. The Vlahs always called themselves Aromâni/Armâni and were speaking a Romance language. Modern Romania (Valahia and Moldova) adopted the name România, because the new state was inhabited by Români (the vernacular name of ‘Romanians’).
Anon, sorry to be a pest their name was and is Arimani:
Excellent explanaition providing many sources of Archeo-Greek origins of Arimanian Greeks
( Το πρωτογενώς αρχαιοελληνικό γλωσσικό ιδίωμα των Αρειμένιων Βλάχων)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7we2x90k38
In this video, Κωνσταντίνος Χατζηγιαννάκης, who is an excellent linguist fluent in all archaic Greek dialects
Pay attention to what the lady says at 1:18 (Greeks from Arkadia). May I inform you that contrary to general misconception Latin language, alphabet and the so called Latins (Etruscans) originated from Greek Arkadia.
There are many confirmations about this fact including Italian Linguists, whether you like it or not.
Later on Prof. Chadziyannakis explains their language.
In this video G. Lekakis provides many other sources:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f0ArZI4J0g
Notice: Η ελληνικότητα των Αρειμένιων Βλάχων Greekness of Arimanian Vlachs
To end, I know why you Rumanians are so desperate to keep your non Greek image.
Anon, one more thing. While Lekakis uses many Rumanian and other sources, the most beautiful one is at 9:45
where he talks about Rumanian member of ministry of foreign affairs Misiu, when presented with highest Greek order interrupted Venizelos, who was presenting this order to Misiu, saying “it’s the least I could do for my Fatherland”. This is how Rumanian are your Vlachs (Vlahia = Transylvania, etc). Lekakis also talks about Austro-Hungarian Emperors starting this non-Greek propaganda, because accepting Vlachs as Greeks would totally destroy their Empire, just like it could destroy Rumania.
One more thing, before you throw the “Kaloyan” in my face you should keep in mind that I can throw it back at you. If you new little Greek you would have noticed that the name “Kaloyan” is a modified Greek last name originating from “Kaloyannis means Good Yannis => Good Ioannis”. So I would say he was Greek.
Also, Maria Todorova, professor at one of American Universities lamented in her book “Imagining the Balkans” that Greeks get preferential treatment from the West (which is a false statement) as well as complained that one of the Soviet Anthropologists said “Bulgarians are Greeks who forgot to speak Greek”. The book is in English.
Also check, the history carefully. General Ipsilantis, Pontic Greek who was a general in Russian army mustered small Vlach (5000 men from Vlachia) army in order to fight the Turks in your territory. When they were close to totally defeat Turks in your capital, Austrian Emperor asked Tsar of Russia to stop Ipsilanti’s efforts, and so he did thus allowing Turks to bring bigger forces and destroy this Greek army.
I’d say ain’t history a b$tch?
@Vlahs=>Greeks
My friend, I was right. You are a chauvinistic ‘Grecotei’ puffed up with sophomoric half knowledge. I guess you are the same one who come up again with this ridiculous stories.
The Romanian ‘member of the ministry of foreign affairs’ was actually the Minister for Foreign Affairs of Romania Nicolae Mişu (pronounced Mishou) and he was an Aromân too, but the ‘Fatherland’ he was speaking of was România which was achieving its goal of uniting all Romanians in a single state, not Greece.
The ‘Vlahs’ in Ypsilanti’s army were actually Arnauts and Vlahs from Albania. The local Romanians from Walachia came in sharp conflict with the ‘Greek’ nationalistic goals of the Masonic Filiki Eteria and the personal ambitions of the hothead Ypsilanti. They wanted to get rid of the hated Phanariot ‘hospodars’ of Valahia and of the plethora of ‘grecotei’ who were sucking the country dry, whereas Ypsilanti (who was the son of former ‘hospodar’ Constantin Ypsilanti) was entertaining dreams to become a prince of Valahia.
These squabbles about the ‘Greekness’ of the Vlahs are as ridiculous as the squabbles about the name of Macedonia.
Anon, he was actually a very high up in your government sort of “right hand to your king or whoever at the very top”. Learn Greek and listen to Lekakis, who explains the details. Like it or not he was Greek-Vlachos his real name was Michail, according to Lekakis. I’ll leave it at that.
Sorry couple more things:
First of all I suggest reading “The Balkans since 1453” by I. S. Stavrianos, who is/was a professor at Vancouver University (B.C., Canada).
He explains your history very nicely, including using Greek as your language and then scrambling to create non-Greek identity.
Also, unfortunately it’s in Greek N. Lygeros uploaded this morning very beautiful short video about the need for educating oneself, he calls it “Freedom and books”:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9lbTc2A690
Well, if Germany was the moving force against Serbia, it certainly is the cause of the Donbass conflict.
Merkel has had abundant opportunities to change Kiev’s policy of ethnic cleansing via the ATO.
The US is the strategist. But Germany has been the sapper, exploding bombs and allowing the rearming of a fascist military and turning a blind eye to nazi nationalist battalions.
The Normandy Four, where initiative is in the hands of Germany, has been a Merkel fail.
The Minsk 2 Accords are a fail because Germany will not enforce them, even though the UNSC has backed them.
And who always agrees to all sanctions on Russia, for whatever preposterous reasons? Germany.
Merkel has led her nation into economic troubles and the EU into social catastrophe.
In the former USSR territories, it appears that Germany has done about as much damage to the culture and development of the Slavs, Russians and victors of WWII as Hitler’s armies did during the war.
> The Minsk 2 Accords are a fail because Germany will not enforce them
Germany had much more part in the game, and much before.
1. The least tarred Ukrainian politician, thus expected to be the favorite of post-Yanukovich elections – was Vladimir Klitchko: the famous German boxing sportsman. He later proved total idiot and puppet, when he had to trade politic waters, but before that he was seen “clean third force” between corrupt “professional politics” of both orange and blue herds.
Compare to Zelensky now, who has the same position, but being domestic comedy artists, instead of German boxer.
Before the famous anglo-american “Fuck the EU”, “Yatz is the guy” and Poroshenko touring in London and Washington, it was Klitschko who claimed himself “Maidan leader” and expected to sit into Ukrainian throne. Poroshenko was derided as “Party of Regions” creator and Yanukovich’s henchman and was chased out of EuroMaidan when tried to show off there.
The very enthroning of Poroshenko was absolutely anti-EuroMaidan, but no Western media noticed it. Mystery….
2. The armed coup started 18-02-2014. Day before that, 17-02-2014, Merkel had meeting with “EuroMaidan leaders”. Day before that, 16-02-2014, Right Sector declared “Tomorrow our representatives meet Merkel to report completion of our part of deal and to ask what Merkel did as her part of the deal. Regardless of “checking watches” outcome, the next day after meeting Merkel we start the attack at the regime.”. And that was how it was.
3. 21-02-2014 (or was it 20th? or 22nd? i forgot the exact day) foreign ministers of France, Poland and – tadam! – Germany met with Yanukovich and enforced the “peace deal”: Yanukovich ceases resisting to “radicals” and gives removes law enforcers form Kiev, for that France Poland and Germany warrant radicals would desist fro many forceful illegal actions. Just few hours after Yanukovich implemented his part, France Poland and Germany reneged on their warranties.
It didn’t matter what ferkel said or did, the USG was the driving, destructive, satanic power in ukraine, why do you think biden was so much in kiev? Did ferkel ever go there? kiev got its orders directly from biden, or indirectly through nuland, anybody else was just for show, and could only talk meaningless and ineffective words.
What happened in ukraine was an american plot (with the expenditure of at least $5 bn), in line with the original neocon wolfowitz doctrine, & PNAC, look them both up.
Germany of today has managed to do what Hitler’s Germany could not do with 100’s of divisions, whole armies in fact. It took over almost all of Eastern Europe and, with the exception of Yugoslavia, without firing a single shot ( or very few). Ukraine is the cherry on top. And Belarus is next. The drive of the German elite of today to control Eastern Europe, and some day Russia, is the same as that of the German elite of the last century.
Lebensraum im Osten??
Thanks for this article.
Sadly article doesn’t mention creation of “Pale of Settlement” in late 17th century.
Subject has historical value that stretches for ages till the present time and it is crucial for full understanding of Ukrainian and Russian history and the present events.
Just saying, S75ponny
You could write about the missing part yourself and post it as a long comment. It will benefit all of us.
Thanks for commenting.
I would love to write more but I am limited by screen of my old telephone and Internet access. Screen typing while seeing few lines of written text is hard, I hope to give hint to our dear Sakerites for their own research.
No ignorance nor shallow criticism intended.
Very interesting subject. Thanks for mentioning it.
Before that, with the Kazar kingdom, where did the Jewish go when the kingdom was dissolved?
This is very odd to me.
Here where I live I can travel 3.000km in any direction and everyone will speak my language.
” Only in the north where Russia shared a border with polar bears, Russia did not have ukraine.”
Right, got it, and article showing old maps and a Hungarian hussar in the 16th century, definitely marked to read further later…
Indispensable overview, great style — but langage could have been smoothed-out.
The whole article is very misleading.
Krajina has geographically and politicaly always been a part of Croatia. The Serbs came there feeling Turks that is true. Croats gave them land to settle on, but with an obligation to defend it.
Croatia at the time was devided between the Habsburg monarchy and Venice, and Serbs were part of the Ottoman Empire.
In Ukraine the Russians took the land that was always theirs.
So basically when Croatia took Krajina they did exactly what Russians did. I am Croatian so that’s why I understand them completely.
Krajina wasn’t always part of Croatia. Territory of the Krajina was in the course of the history part of the many realms, starting with the Roman Empire. Krajina itself as an administrative region was created by the Ferdinand I. Habsburg, Holly Roman Emperor and king of Bohemia, Hungary and Croatia. It was also him who settled Serbs (and others) there as at that time it was his land. Since it’s creation in 1627 Krajina was separated from kingdom of Croatia and made in to the territory under direct imperial rule. Therefore Croats had nothing to do with settling anybody there. Territory of the Krajina came under control of kingdom of Croatia only in 1881 when it was dissolved by Franz Joseph I Habsburg, Emperor of Austria, king of Hungary, Bohemia, Croatia and Dalmatia.
That’s for historical accuracy only, because my article wasn’t about who has historical right to Krajina and who has not. I find arguing about it entirely pointless, because for one everybody can claim it based on the completely arbitrary historical date he chooses which suits his argument -and two, because it doesn’t matter at all. As I said in the article, what matters is who can support his claim with the larger guns. In this case, USA and their guns decided who has right to Krajina.
So-Called republic of Srbian Krajina was created in 1990 as a attempt of creation of Greater Serbia. Milosevic and then official Belgrade instrumentalised Serbian minority in Croatia and Serbs in Bosnia and Herzegovina in order to change internal borders in Yugoslavia and to create Great Serbia.
Of course, that action caused bloody inter-ethnic war and as result Yugoslavia ceased to exist.
Serbian Krajina was para-political and para-state entity created by serbian para-military forces. It has NOTHING in common with historical Military Frontier.
Historical Vojna Krajina or Military Frontier was used as a poor excuse for these actions. Military Frontier was presented as a exclusively and ethnically serbian land with serbian historical right to take these lands and incorporate them into Serbia.
Vojna Krajina was region along the austrohungarian-otoman border under special administrative and military rule of general head quarter in Wienna.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Frontier
Consisted of Danube Military Frontier, Tisa Military Frontier, Mures Military Frontier, Sava military Frontier, Banat Military Frontier, Slavonian Military frontier, Croatian Military Frontier, Šajkaš Battalion, Transylvanian Military Frontier.
In modern Croatia there were two Military Frontier district
Croatian Military Frontier – entirely in modern Croatia
Slavonian Military Frontier – western part is in modern Croatia and eastern part is part of modern Serbia (Vojvodina Autonomy)
Croatian Military Frontier
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_Military_Frontier
Slavonian Military Frontier
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavonian_Military_Frontier
Croatian and Slavonian Military Frontiers were ethnically mixed with some Croatian majority. Those regions never in history belonged to any of Serbian states or kingdoms. They were historically Croatian lands
According to Hungarian statistician Elek Fényes, in 1840 the Croatian Military Frontier was populated by 498,947 people and the ethnic structure was:[5]
258,454 Croats (Roman-Catholics)
240,493 Serbs (Eastern-Ortodoxs)
The first modern census from 1857 recorded the religion of the populace of Croatian Military Frontier:[6]
285,344 Roman Catholics (Croats)
253,429 Orthodox Christians (Serbs)
5,433 Eastern Catholics (Croats)
Slavonian Military Frontier
In 1870, Slavonian military frontier had, according to official census, 246,901 inhabitants. Of that number 143,873 were Roman Catholic and 92,991 were Orthodox (living mainly in eastern Syrmia).
Two regions belong to modern Croatia – Brod Regiment Region and Gradiska Regimen Region.
Brod regiment had 82,540 inhabitants out of which 73,892 were Roman Catholic and 6,886 were Orthodox. Gradiška regiment had 61,596 inhabitants out of which 45,601 were Roman Catholic and 15,933 were Orthodox.
Petrovaradin Regiment Region today belons to modern Serbia.
Petrovaradin regiment had 102,765 inhabitants out of which 70,172 were Orthodox and 24,380 were Roman Catholic.
So, this is probably right answer to all those serbian nationalistic fairy tales about so-called Serbian Krajina and its non-existing ties with Military Frontier.
Bosnian Croat
You are playing with history and facts. Orthodox people were and are Serbs. However, you used the Catholic religion to state that the Catholics you mentioned were Croats, which is not true. You forgot to mention Orthodox Serbs who were converted to the Catholic faith and for a long time regarded themselves as Catholic Serbs.
As for Military Krajina, it was a frontier region ruled from Vienna and run by Serbian captains. As for Milošević, he invented nothing. Military Krajina did exist, as attested by Serbs living on it’s former territory, which was incorporated into modern day Croatia.
At least Crote makes plain the clerico-fascist mindset behind Crote chauvinism, xenophobia and aggression, showing that for the Crotes this was and always will be a religious war.
Description of Slavonia population from the pen of one and only Helena Petrovna Blavatsky . written somewhere around 1876, while she travalled :
” Eszék (Slavonia) (Eszek is today Osijek). From Becskerek to Titel (coach). Steamer to Neusat ( Novi Sad), day and night on the steamer down to the mouth of the river Drava. Change of steamer and 3 hours upstream on the Drava to Eszék, consisting of three parts surrounding the Fort which is enormous. Oberstadt, Neustadt and Unterstadt. AlMOST ENTIERLY SERBIAN POPULATION The Austrians and Hungarians are Catholics. Between 500 and 1,000 prisoners, both political and for other crimes. A very beautiful town, but very boring. One sees the whole day long groups of prisoners in chains marching along the streets, escorted by soldiers armed with rifles. Just a month ago 800 Italian political prisoners were released on demand from the Italian Government. The theatre in Oberstadt is a real gem, but the managers are ruined because the majority of the public here are officers who pay only 20 Kr. for admission, as everywhere else.7
Some years ago, when there was a famine in Serbia and Slavonia, the Austrians offered to the Orthodox people work, building roads, at the rate of 1 florin per day throughout the year, BUT ON CONDITION OF EMBRACING THE CATHOLIC FAITH; otherwise they would be left to starve….”
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/blavatsky/articles/v1/hlc_ltravelmpr.htm
As you can see, Slavonia population was mainly Serbian, and you can also see the ways they were forced to embrace the Catholic religion.
Truly,Catholicism is and was a cancer of humanity and a source of shame for any human with a soul !
It’s critical to understand that this was Croatia. Serbs who settled in Croatia decided to take it over in 1991. Serbs never occupied this land in a war.
Historically Croatia was as east as Zemun..
Also they are more mistakes in this text.
First, So-called Serbian Krajina and Military frontier from the past have NOTHING in common with Ukraine and Ukrainian history. Two completely different things and except for name similarity everything else is absolute different.
Second, When socialist Yugoslavia was created, Serbia was NOT split into four entities. Monte Negro was never part of Serbia. Monte Negro have always had its statehood. Its Statehood was destroyed by Serbian king 1918 when Kingdom of Yugoslavia was established. That action caused bloody rebellion in Monte Negro in 1919 which ended in military repression and police.
Monte Negro was 1945 established again in socialist Yugoslavia under demand of montenegrian communists. Monte Negro has always been divided between pro-independent and pro-serbian political forces. That problem still exist today. Sometimes even families are divided.
In Yugoslavia all other nations considered MonteNegrians as people with dual identity, ethnic Serbs with some specific identity. Similar to Austrians, part of German nation but with strong historical specific separate identity.
Also, Serbia was not divided. There were two autonomy regions Vojvodina and Kosovo. But they were PART OF SERBIA similar to regions of Russian Federation.
Vojvodina had predominantly Serbian majority and it was never any significant problem with it.
Kosovo was always problem because of strong Albanian majority and it was always problem, in Kingdom of Serbia, in Kingdom of Yugoslavia in Socialist Yugoslavia and in independent Serbia.
They were also problem for Otoman Turks when they ruled Balkan lands including Kosovo. Kosovo is historically inherited problem. And nobody cannot be particularly blamed for this problem. Communists tried to solve this by creation of Kosovo authonomy but it did not work. Milosevic tried by destroying authonomy and that was even worse solution because that action alienated and revolted even loyal Albanians.
West gave Kosovo indenpendence but that caused more problems. So, how will this problem be solved nobody knows.
Republica Serbska Krajina was declared on 19 December 1991, not in 1990. It was declared AFTER and not before Croatia have declared it’s independence. “So-called” Croatia and “so-called” Kosovo were created in 1991 and 2008 as a attempt of creation of Greater Croatia and greater Albania.
Milosevic and then official Belgrade instrumentalised Serbian minority in Croatia and Serbs in Bosnia the very same way and for the very same goals as Izedbegovich and then official Sarajevo, Tudman and then official Zagreb, and official Washington, London and Berlin had instrumentalised Croatian and Muslim minorities.
Bloody civil war was caused by the unilateral declaration of independence of Croatia and then Bosnia and Hercegovina which both had significant Serbian population that didn’t agree with that. And since you are from Bosnia, you must sure know that those were not just Serbs which declared independence on Bosnia, Bosnian Croats did the same. Inconvenient little detail, isn’t it?
I have never presented historical Krajina as exclusively and ethnically Serbian land, on contrary, I clearly stated that it was populated by other ethnicities then just Serbs, nor did I mention anywhere who has historical right to Krajina. Excuses you or anybody else present, been it Serbs or Croats are of zero interest to me as question who has historical right to Krajina is entirely irrelevant. I won’t bother discussing what came first, Croat chicken or Serbian egg. And people who matter and have power to decide fate of the Krajina doesn’t care either.
Let’s see history
“The Serbian Autonomous Oblast of Krajina (Serbo-Croatian: Srpska autonomna oblast Krajina / Српска аутономна област Крајина) or SAO Krajina (САО Крајина) was a self-proclaimed Serbian autonomous region (oblast) within modern-day Croatia (then Yugoslavia). The territory consisted of majority-Serbian municipalities of the Republic of Croatia that declared autonomy in October 1990. It was formed as the Serbian Autonomous Oblast of Krajina (Serbo-Croatian: Srpska autonomna oblast Kninska Krajina / Српска аутономна област Книнска Крајина) or SAO Kninska Krajina (САО Книнска Крајина), but, upon inclusion of additional Serb-populated areas, changed its name simply to SAO Krajina. In 1991 the SAO Krajina declared itself the Republic of Serbian Krajina, and subsequently included the other two Serbian SAOs in Croatia, the SAO Western Slavonia and the SAO Eastern Slavonia, Baranja and Western Syrmia.”
So it is created in October 1990 while Yugoslavia still existed. First as SAO Krajina and in December 1991 as republic of Serbian Krajina. Same thing just different name.
My advice to Serbs, advice I know you are not going to take in any consideration: Stop with this nonsense. We all need normalization in Ex Yugoslavia but while you persist with this Great Serbia nationalistic BS, Balkan will always be region of inter-ethnic conflicts.
The difference between autonomy and independence is sure something I don’t have to explain to somebody who claims to be from Bosnia. Do I?
As for the declaration of the autonomy by the Serbs in Krajina itself, since you have mentioned it, it was done AFTER Tudjman and his party won elections in Croatia in April-May 1990 and announced their intention to secede from Yugoslavia.
Bottom line: Serbs of Krajina declared their independence on Croatia AFTER Croatians declared their independence on Yugoslavia.
Bosnian Croat
You mistook Greater Croatia for Greater Serbia. You forgot about Ante Pavelić and his NDH state, which incorporated all of Bosnia and Herzegovina, which was absurd. Bosnia and Herzegovina was united with Serbia in 1375, and back then 2/3 of the Dalmatian coast was part of this unified kingdom. Does the Orthodox monastery of Krka in Dalmatia ring a bell ? As for Montenegro, it’s name in the Middle Ages was Zeta, being part of the Serbian Kingdom. Finally, take a look at Austrian maps from the 18th century, showing the Orthodox ethnic distribution of the Serbian people. Half of Croatia is listed as Orthodox, the whole of Dalmatia, the whole of Bosnia and Herzegovina, the whole of Montenegro (Zeta), the whole of Macedonia, 1/3 of Bulgaria and 1/3 of present day Greece, including at least 1/3 of present day Albania. Those maps were made by Austrians, not Serbs.
Sorry, but in the periods you mention there was Croatia. There was the Austro-Hungarian empire. Croatia gave nothing to Serbs or anyone else simply by virtue of the self evident principle that something that doesn’t exist can’t give anything to anyone.
It would be like saying that parts of Istra and Dakmacija were Italian before 1861. Nonsense.
Croatia did exist in the period I am covering as a Kingdom of Croatia which was at first in personal union with Hungary (since 1102), by the virtue of both having the same (Hungarian) king and later Habsburg Empire when kingdom of Hungary itself entered personal union with Habsburg monarchy and Habsburgs became hereditary kings of both Hungary and Croatia.
But these discussions are pointless, what is relevant is that in 1990 territory of Krajina was part of Croatia and it was populated by Serbian majority. Both of those are simple historical facts and their combination made unilateral secession of Croatia from Yugoslavia without any negotiated deal with Serbians inevitable cause of the conflict.
Davide,
Would you like to show me Where was Croatia on this map of Europe from 1100AD?
https://www.euratlas.net/history/europe/1100/index.html
Hungarian kingdom perhaps.
All of you guys make the same “error” as with the territory of Palestine (Philistini)
This article does a good job of explaining the solidarity and friendship between the Serbs and Russians. It is not just because we are slavic, or share the same religion and cyrillic alphabet. We are culturally actually quite different. However, It is the similarity of our extremely bloody, and often, intertwined history, as described in this article, that has created this deep bond.
When I was very young, I attended a concert in Belgrade, where I was a witness of this Russian-
Serbian kinship. It was after NATO bombings, the mood was very sombre. A Philharmonic Orchestra from Moscow was coming to town, and as a treat my aunt got some tickets.
The musicians, dressed in their finery, arrived on stage. We waited for them to launch into their program when suddenly and unexpectedly they started playing the “Marche Slave”. The mood was electric. It wasn’t on the program! There was such emotion in that concert hall. I do believe that we must have been the most melancholy and the most grateful audience they ever played for. At the time, I didn’t understand the historic meaning of the”Marche Slave” . All I knew was that it was beautiful music and the Russians were the most glamourous people I had ever seen.
OT but can’t find a Saker thread to post on:
Is US taking Syria’s gold? It is being reported at two sites, e.g.,
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201902271072790869-gold-for-safe-passage-deal-syria/
I would love to see a Russian version of this article – to send to a Russian-speaker. Google Translator will mangle it.
I am afraid there are a few inaccuracies in the article:
‘When Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian empires collapsed in the flames of the Balkan Wars and the First World War, which had aroused from the conflict over the Bosnia, Croatia and Serbia joined Yugoslavia, a new state…’
Serbia did not join Yugoslavia. Slovenia and Croatia, both former parts of Austro-Hungarian empire, expressed the desire of their assemblies to join Serbia in the foundation of the new state of Yugoslavia after the WWI Armistice was signed. Montenegro joined Serbia. Serbia, as the winner of the WWI (at the Balkans) could (and should have) acted entirely differently and demanded compensation for total destruction of Serbia in WWI from Slovenia and Croatia and formed it’s own state, alas, it did not, but led by panslavistic king Alexander embraced ‘Slovenian and Croatian brethren’, relinquished it’s right for war compensation and became the fulcrum of the new state. By joining Yugoslavia, Croatia gained military protection from Italy which was intent on taking the whole of Dalmatia in 1918.
To say that Kingdom of Yugoslavia was ‘dominated’ by Serbs is akin to saying that UK was dominated by the English and Soviet Union was dominated by Russians. Serbs were the most numerous nation in Yugoslavia and it was only natural that they would be the most numerous present in army, police, jurisprudence and civil service. However, with regards to the army, for instance, Slovenes and Croats were more represented in the Air Force and navy, where conditions for promotion were easier than in, say, infantry (by the way, Slovenes mostly fought bravely in April 1941 war, as opposed to Croats who surrendered en masse to Germans)
After WWII, Serbia was the ONLY ‘republic’ or administrative entity that was divided in Serbia proper and two autonomous provinces, Vojvodina (northern) and Kosmet (southern). The explanation that it was done because of large Hungarian minority (Vojvodina) and Albanian(Kosmet) sounds hollow, because Istria, that was taken from Italy after WWI and joined to Croatia in 1945, has the population consisting of entirely autochtone people who call themselves Istrians and speak in their own dialect, having their own customs etc., if there was a reason for an autonomous province, it was Istria for sure. Croatia also has a large Hungarian minority to the north, Macedonia (which was part of Serbia up to 1918) has a large Albanian minority, but no, it was only Serbia that HAD to have ‘autonomous provinces’, not any other Yugoslav republic. This was a communist brainchild, designed to weaken Serbia, because autonomous provinces had all the institutions of a republic except the right to secede. They even had their own police and armed forces in the shape of ‘territorial defence’ (similar to US National Guard).
Please note that the proper name of the southern province is Kosmet, and NOT Kosovo. It is an abbreviation from KOSovo and METohija, but it was Albanians who started calling it ‘Kosova’ which was later accepted abroad and regretfully often in Serbia as well. What is the meaning of this difference? Metohija comes from the word ‘metoh’, meaning ‘land owned by the church’ and the only church that has ever possessed land in Kosmet was Serbian orthodox church. Hence Albanians insistence on ‘Kosova’, for obvious reasons.
When Serbia submitted request to the Hague tribunal for indictment against NATO regarding war crimes committed by NATO planes in Serbia 1999, the Hague tribunal declared itself ‘unauthorised’ for such indictment. Any comment would be superfluous.
So you say that my article is inaccurate in saying that Serbia and Croatia have joined Yugoslavia after WWII. And then you go and say that that they joined in “foundation of the new state of Yugoslavia”.
You say that my article is inaccurate in saying that interwar Yugoslavia was became dominated by Serbs and then you go on and say that it’s natural that it was dominated by Serbs because they were the most numerous.
…so thatnks for confirming that article is indeed accurate.
You say “The explanation that it was done because of large Hungarian minority (Vojvodina) and Albanian(Kosmet) sounds hollow”, yet I didn’t mention Hungarian minority at all, nor did I say that it was done because of the minorities.
You say “This was a communist brainchild, designed to weaken Serbia”, and my article say the same thing.
So my question to you: have you being reading article at all and if yes, was it article we are discussing here?
i will chime in just for the fun of it….
it sure is tiresome to argue with indoctrinated croats or “bosniaks”.
it is like arguing with banderasti. no amount of facts, logic or reason suffices.
like masha & the bear are russian propaganda & imperialistic tendency for banderasti, so is
serbian chocolate candy for the croats & bosniaks. they even banned the import of it. (read [1][2])
i heard that all those lands the serbs were driven off are now empty. village after village, all empty.
nice one croats, 101 on how to destroy your tax base and bankrupt your country. and of course,
the croats were all great fighters for the homeland /sarc, so now 1/8 of the country is drawing war pensions.
LOL, and no croat politician can say anything against that scam because it would be political suicide. niceeee….
but the real problem croats will have, now that they are german owned territory, is when all those
german turks and syrians discover the nice adriatic coast. sunny and so similar to their homelands,
yet so close to their work. i believe all those turks & arabs will move en-mass to croatia. but beware croats,
those muslims won’t be sympathetic and empathetic towards you and treat you as a “brother” like the serbs did. soon you might be a minority in your own country and no one will come to rescue.
[1] https://www.total-croatia-news.com/politics/15176-croatian-president-apologizes-for-giving-serbian-chocolate-to-children
[2] https://www.rferl.org/a/croatia-serbia-chocolates-grabar-kitarovic-scandal/28167622.html
Funny links! Although I don’t get the fuss. The Croats now have an ethnically pure state, brand new, internationally recognised borders, are members of EU and NATO. Their position vis-a- vis Serbia is unassailable, and yet they throw themselves into a tizzy over some Serbian chocolates. Talk about deep seated complexes…
Once fascists have their ethnically and religiously pure states, they start fighting among themselves along sectarian and class and economic lines. To watch the Crotes turn on one another will not be a happy spectacle. particularly for the innocents, and as they will no doubt turn to further external aggression as a means to salve the internecine hatred.
Dear SG & MM,
all those scandals about chocolate and what-not are just misdirection from the real
reasons the ordinary croats are miserable (poor economic situation). Scandals are purposefully
utilized by the croat elites to hide their incompetence and bad decisions.
But if you attack & accuse the ordinary croats head-on for all their previous wrongdoings
(even if you are right and i do believe you are), all you get is them taking a defensive-stance
and contra-arguing with indoctrinated falsehoods.This is obviously a dead end.
All serbs need to do, is not to engage with croat/bosniak temper tantrums.
Just direct them to Mutti who is now their new overlord. She should fix their problems.
But she won’t because she doesn’t care. She wanted vassals she could exploit and not
her-equals as croats believed things would be.
Only so, croats can finally realize they have been duped and were & still are only useful idiots
for foreign interests.
That’s good advice RATM, but there are societies so long marinated in fascism, chauvinism, aggression and self-delusion (eg the USA, England, Israel and Croatia I fear)that, despite many of their people being sane and decent, their deranged elites and the worst elements of the populace (‘..full of passionate intensity’)guarantee generations of dangerous moral insanity.
Here’s a jewish viewpoint of southern ukraine – as belonging to the jews, especially Crimea: ‘The historic rights of the Jews to colonize Crimea and the entire Black Sea coast from Odessa to the Caucasus cannot be doubted’. From 1926: http://pdfs.jta.org/1926/1926-12-30_656.pdf
i have read the article, clearly all made up sh*t, but what can you expect from
people who declared themselves the chosen ones.
and the purpose for settling them is based only to cut off russia from the black sea
and warmer water ports. a very similar role israel is now playing in the middle east
– a permanent aircraft carrier – fortress to control/influence the region.
this is why everybody who parrots the khazarian lie is unknowingly helping the empire
I don’t agree with them, just putting forward one of the reasons the jews are involved in that area.
Thanks for link Ralph.
Earlier in my comment I mentioned absence of zionist aspect of the original article and historical significance of “pale of Settlement” which was established by Catherine II who expelled jews to the west of her empire.
Primary reason was non assimilation with ethnic Russians and issuance of usury.
Pale of Settlement stretched from Baltic Sea to black Sea over area of Krym, Moldova, current Baltic States, Kaliningrad and of course current Ukraine, less Novorussia.
Jewish population of several million was strictly confined (with only few exceptions) in this rather large area till 1917, and payback to Tzar and his family resulted.
PS: Reading in linked newspaper article confirms truth when obvious bias is compensated for.
They never taught me this in school. (
But then, it probably falls under ‘hidden history’.
I’m thinking that that may have been (one of?) the reason(s) for the Russian Revolution by the jews/’jews’. Where’s Saker when you need him?
There was no “expulsion” to the west, as Russia grabbed much of the territory of the Polish Kingdom in the three progressive partitions (Prussia and Austria being the other parties) of 1772, 1793 and 1795. That was the territory inhabited by a large Jewish population that did not have to move anywhere. So one can view it as a “poison pill” that the Russian Empire swallowed.
Jewish mythology requires that they always must be ‘expelled’ from somewhere.
Ralph, educate yourself:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurida_Governorate
Taurida aka Krim was populated by Greeks no less than 8000 years.
I suggest seeing this excellent and extremely educational Russian film about Khazars aka Jews:
Title: Who are Khazars? Did they really exist, or it’s just a myth?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMohmMnycJ0
It is the foundational principle of Zionazism that any square inch of land anywhere on which any Jew ever dwelt, for any length of time, belongs to the Jews alone, forevermore.
Beautiful article.
i have one comment; the term ‘Vlachs’ does not apply to Romanians only ! it is a common misconception. Vlachs were a left-overs of Roman Empire , people that spoke Latin language. Given that Roman Empire was a multicultural society, those Vlachs were of different origins: some of Persians origins, some of Slavic/Teutonic, some Greeks, etc. They were basically soldiers and peasants, craftsmen, shepherds, etc. Some stayed on Balkan territory after the Roman fall while some others moved westward, thus family name Wallace ( very common in UK) or Wallack, (Valacchi in Italian).
In Germanic languages the term Volk or Folk (The people) comes from the word Vlachs ( think Volkswagen)
Also, it is important to note that Welsh people, a nation associated with Wales and the Welsh language, with a name also coming from Walhaz (Vlachs) root.
Walloons, the French-speaking population of Belgium, with a name also coming from Walhaz/Vlachs root.
Volokh is Russian version of the term Vlach, while Hungarian version is Oláh or Olah – meaning “speaker of a Romance (Latin) language”.
In Balkans, the term became derogatory, and Vlasi /Vlachs is used mainly for the ethnic Serb community.
Vida, sorry but you need to educate yourself before you attempt to tell people this nonsense.
Home lands of the Arimani Vlachoi are mountains of Pindos:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pindus
Their World Capital is Metzovo in Pondos.
Someone said that anyone suggesting the Vlachoi came there from somewhere else must have less than “no-brain” for no-one in his right mind would relocate from say Moldavia to go and live in Pindos (the highest peak is Smolikas 2,637 m) to eat rocks. My father had only one expression for that region “κατσάβραχα – derogatory name for bunch of rocks). If you check the Towns of Sesklo and Dimini in Magnesia in Thessaly are 10,000years old (give or take few years) completely Vlach towns.
I not going to bother with explanation that Latini were actually Greeks who used that dialect
Vivi Mitrou can try to educate you with that regard:
ΜΑΘΗΜΑΤΑ ΑΡΧΑΙΩΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΩΝ – ΤΑ ΛΑΤΙΝΙΚΑ ΕΙΝΑΙ ΕΛΛΗΝΙΚΑ (Latin is Greek)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmeoLsh7wAw
Check 6:38 5th column (the Arcadic dialect-alphabet)
Here is Arcadia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcadia
Tripoli is it’s capital. All Tripolis’ in the world were established and colonized by these people.
Seems that you are implying that Valahis are Greeks. That is erroneous notion and without arguments.
Some of them were Greeks, without a doubt, but their ethical origins is old Slovenian. Even the word Vlah is of Slavic origin, not Greek.
There is no proof that the Pindos/Metzovon mountains are home land of Valahis. Absolutely no proof whatsoever. Just in Serbia you have at lest few mountains under the name of Vlahia, Veles etc. . Same goes for Bulgaria, today Rumania , Albania etc.
Valahs were most probably the old pra-Slovenic/Aryan tribe that inhabited Balkan peninsula.
PS : “A mountain called by the Greeks Pindos is the same mountain which is called Metzovon in Barbarian”
Therefore, Metzovan is not Greek word, it is Valahian word.
If the Valahis were Greeks, they would speak Greek language, not Valahian. Also, Greeks would not change the original name of the mountain.
Thank you very much for a short expose of the first ever colour revolution – which was performed on my country Yugoslavia.
It was a trial for NATO for future ‘R2P’ all over the ‘interesting’ areas all over the world, whether they were a threat to them via a system or development…
I am very well aware how it happened though I lived in Middle East when it started.
I remembered reading the articles by CIA in 80ties and announcing the demise of Yugoslavia- I was in my twenties then and laughed as I thought they were mad.
But no, it was planned for a long time.
I recommend reading Engdahl- he explains it well.
Germany and USA are the main culprits, BND worked a long time on this.
Now, it is just as was planned by them to be – 6 little colonies from exYu are led by little and slavish appointed puppets.
All industry destroyed, and we are going down, except the paid politicians of course.
“6 little colonies from exYU..”
Ihree, no.
Only 2 became colonies: Slovenia and Croatia. They are part of the EU and NATO. Montenegro is part of NATO but not of part of EU. Please don’t put us all in the same bag. We no longer share the same country. Many if us, who are not in the full-blown colonies, are still resisting!
I appreciate your answer, and while I never meant to offend, I still think that even the govt. of Serbia is a puppet government ( the sentiments of the people of Serbia are something else and the govt. is not acting on this).
The fact that most of the present govrnments in ex Yugoslavia are actively promoting the hatred between the now disjointed and balkanized little countries shows me that they are the ever for ever obidient servants of the neocon ideology which has destroyed Yugoslavia. Divide et impera continues for ever while the small countries are plundered and made helpless and insignificant.
I am one of these who are deeply suspicious of this perpetrated ‘democratic dogma’ and ‘power of the people’ rhetoric imported from the capitalist world.
As M. Twain once said and I paraphrase: ‘If they believed that something can be changed by elections – we would have never been allowed to them’.
Shortly, in my opinion, the false democracy is a lie which came to replace another one – that one of the religion.The nationalism is used as an useful tool of division between the countries.
With this they have failed in Syria, and I am so glad.
However, for those who might be interested, I offer few good sources to read:
1) To Kill a Nation: The attack on Yugoslavia
by Michael Parenti
2) The century of War ( there’s a chapter on destruction of Yugoslavia)
by William Engdahl
3) http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/62/022.html
Dismantling Yugoslavia, colonizing Bosnia, by Chossudovsky
Regards
Unfortunately, I have to agree with you here. Ex Yugoslavia was destroyed, first uprising in Kosovo was orchestrated and then Yugoslav economy was ruined and then media was taken to promote sense of hopelessness and after that inter ethnic hatred, everything under a free speech excuse.
In 80’s I was also in my 20’s and I also laughed after I saw these CIA prediction about Yugoslavia. But when economic crisis hit Yugoslavia and then political crisis as well, I blamed only Yugoslav politicians as responsible and I did not have clue that Yugoslavia was exposed to economic and political attack from outside.
If somebody told me this then, I would send him to hell, I would not believe in it.
These little Ex-YU states today are all colonies without any exception. And today they continue to push that hatred agenda toward other ex-YU neighbors without any reason or interest, but they listen their masters.
And if we talk about Ukraine and Russia, because this is topic about Ukraine and Russia, I think that this Banderites and Poroshenko and other scum, for Russia they are better Ukrainian choice than Janukovich, Kuchma, Kravchuk and other similar FAKE FRIENDS who have always been sitting on two chairs just pretending to be friends and partners with Russia, sucking money from Russia and stabbing Russia in the back all the time.
Thank you, I agree.
After the threat of Socialism to the NWO ( however imperfect, the socialism is still human, as it was just a path & a step to Communism) disappeared with the fall of the USSR, the USA as the main fist hammer of the capitalism has gotten crazy and proclaimed the end of history, and beginning of their own rule all over the world.
Meaning undeterred plunder over the resources allover the Earth.
Watching Syria, and Libya before, I have- in my mature age- learned the rules of destroying any country.
It is so easy. Well, there are so many selfish people in any nation, any country, who will easily sell out for their own advantage. This is the truth about any country in the world, or any tribe in the world…
After the 80ties when I did not believe the CIA reports, I became more aware to their agenda: in the 90ties I started to read about ‘The Greater Middle East’…
I have realized that the ‘greater’ actually means the ‘smaller, balkanized, dissolved into helplessness area of the world’.
To my Yugoslavia it has already happened, we were broken via the help of the local quislings, and the ones brought from abroad to serve the agenda of the breakup of our country.
In Croatia- Ustashe were revived, in Serbia- Chetniks, in Bosnia and Herzegovina – via the Croatia they have imported the modjahedeen from ME. All of these were performing the unspeakable war crimes towards the civils and army.
To light up the civil war to heavens.
The same action plan was performed in Syria- but it failed.Imported and trained ISIL has failed, but will be recycled for future uses by the crazed and loosing empire.
Now- the same with Venezuela.
I wonder, and it is a question for #The Saker.
By the way, thank you for everything, I have been following you since you had an old blog, you have opened my eyes to a lot.
Thank you, Saker.
What is really going on In Donbas ( why was Zaharchenko killed, and many others?).
Lughansk is not so clear to me.
About general role of Ukraine created to weaken Russia- all was clear.
About the created disaster in Ukraine- all is clear.
What do you think is going on, really? With Novorussia.
Thank you
“In Croatia- Ustashe were revived, in Serbia- Chetniks, in Bosnia and Herzegovina – via the Croatia they have imported the modjahedeen from ME”
Actually no. May I ask you to please stop with this revisionism, Ihree. Chetniks were remnants of the Army of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. They were Yugoslav Royalists Nationalists who then became Serbian Nationalists after the Croats and Muslims joined the Nazis.
ihree,
May I again ask you not to group us together. To compare the Chetniks as the Serbian equivalent of the ustashe is highly offensive.
Serbia gave Yugoslavia it’s best shot. It didn’t work. Yes we have a quisling government, but the Serbian PEOPLE are still resisting the empire.
Let us not delve into an useless discussion, Serbian girl
I speak from the position of a citizen of Yugoslavia.
We all agree that Yugoslavia was destroyed and has disappeared ( for now).
When I was speaking about 5th colon ( ustashe, chetniks, imported mudjaheedeen and all the other garbage) I was speaking about paramilitaries which took a big part in the destruction of Yugoslavia. They were all engaged in terrible crimes. Plus the local quislings.To fire up the destruction.They are criminal bastards.Like ISIL.
The Yu army was playing the same role as the army of Syria, trying to keep it all together, well..we know how it ended..
The situation in Syria is so very much similar to the situation in Yugoslavia, but they are winning.Against all the odds. We did not make it, did we?
The situation in ex-Yugoslavia is very similar to Ukraine-Russia conflict with similar ideology (Bandera and Pavelic in Ukraine and Croatia), as described in this article.
Yugoslavia cannot be resurrected, as I do not see anyone in Serbia prepared to trust the Croats after what they did to their Orthodox population in Krajina. In any case, they are now happliy part of EU let them stay there.
Btw, I too was born citizen of Yugoslavia.
Be well Ihree.
All these arguing about who started first who is more guilty or not … ex YU nations will never agree about that.
I can say only one thing – In EX YU in all its parts prevailed ideologies that lost in Second World War. More or Less.
Maybe not in that extreme shape like in Second World War, but ideology of ex-YU communists that ensured stability and balance was abandoned losing its historical role, and ideologies that lost actually won after 45 years. Temporarily won, from the historical point of view.
Time will change that and that process is already ongoing despite we perhaps do not notice that, but history will bury that. And international integration processes will not tolerate those backward ideologies. These relations among ex-YU nations are not normal and not natural.
But in nineties situation was exactly like that. Radical nationalism which we inherited from radical nationalist ideologies from the past.
Looking at the action plan behind the ‘Greater ME’, I now recognize the post factum of it all – everything what happened to Yugoslavia is happening allover again- she was a testing ground for all this abomination in Middle East.Now, the South America, again.
I recommend two books:
– Lords of the horizons, by Jason Godwin, written with love and understanding
– Heirs to forgotten kingdoms, by Gerard Russell, about the unbelievable cultures in ME, Syria.
@Serbian girl
I read you, your posts, you are smart and educated, I follow this blog since years.
I come from the position of someone who has lost his country, but I try to see it from ‘above’.
I have no hatred, and I try to understand what has happened to us all.
For you and Serbian girl.
Worth reading to understand it all.
Thank you
http://library.aceondo.net/ebooks/HISTORY/A_Century_of_War_Anglo_American_Oil_Politics_and_the_New_World_Order.pdf
I meant this comment for both Mr. BC ( Bosnian Croat) and Serbian Girl, this is the book which has enlightened me, changed my outlook on the disasters in Yugoslavia, Middle East and what was to follow later on in shape of false ‘springs’ ( oh, what an irony…). What poison!!!!
A gift of a book for the 2 of you, as it was a gift for me when I first read it. Life changing for me…
Thank you to the Saker for a platform which enables us to discuss, without idiocy and hatred, some of the most pivotal happenings in our world.