The Saker: You are a very well known public figure in the United States. Still I would like you to tell us three things about you which in your opinion is the most important things about you.

Cynthia McKinney: I am always in a state of questioning and learning and I love to research questions and an array of solutions of interest to me.  I think curiosity is a good thing and broadens ones knowledge.  But, it was exactly this questioning nature of mine that got me into political trouble because the institutions that I joined are steeped in “propriety” and “etiquette” and “place”; the culture is set by those who are there the longest and have accrued the most power.  That is not Black women–and it’s certainly not Black women who ask too many questions and don’t know their “place.”

I’m told that Rahm Emanuel, who recruited my opponent to run against me in the Democratic Primary, said that I was not a “team player” because I did not accept Democratic Party leadership nostrums on the 2000 Presidential Election that sent George Bush to the White House, September 11th, Hurricane Katrina, and George Bush’s wars that became Barack Obama’s wars.  In fact, the first Iraq War funding bill brought to a vote in Congress after I left, passed with only the required number of votes, 218; had I been returned to Congress, that bill would have failed and quite possibly, we’d be having a completely different conversation right now.  That’s the importance of every vote on every issue; the importance of every vote on every candidate, in every election.  Instead, I was turned out of Congress, the war funding bill passed with the vote of my replacement, and as is said, “the rest is history.”  The documentary American Blackout tells this story very well.

I conducted my own investigation of the 2000 election and found that the State of Florida whose governor was Jeb Bush, had actually ordered–paid a Georgia company to provide inaccurate voter lists after convicted felons were scrubbed.  In fact, when Floridians showed up at the polls to vote for Bush or Gore, many Blacks found that their names had been scrubbed as convicted felons and they were turned away from the polls.  I was livid. The Bush Administration had been sworn into office with no legitimacy.

Then, September 11th happened.  The Bush Administration’s response to September 11th was that the United States was hit by terrorists who hated its freedoms.  The way it was put was, “We were hit because we are free.”  All of the Members of Congress were passed talking points and we were supposed to mindlessly go out and repeat what was on the talking points.  I was supposed to go back to my constituents and tell them that September 11th happened because they are free–which first and foremost was a lie that I refused to repeat.  Then, when I learned that both Bush and Vice President Cheney were lobbying Congressional leaders not to have an investigation, I smelled a rat and began to do my own research on the tragedy.  In real time, I scoured the international press for information on what really happened and learned that there had been warnings passed on to the Administration from many countries.  At that point, I asked the one question that hasn’t to date been adequately answered by those in authority:  “How can a trillion-dollar military and intelligence infrastructure fail four times on one day?”

The Democratic Party leadership directed its minions not to cooperate with Republicans who had formed a Select Committee to investigate Hurricanes Katrina and Rita.  The world saw the true conditions of poverty and neglect that residents of mostly-Black New Orleans experience, but that was really a window into poverty in the United States.  Let the U.S. tell the story, there is little poverty or racism left in the U.S.  Hurricane Katrina showed that the Emperor really has no clothes.  I just punctuated the point!

Naked Emperor

The punishment meted out to me by AIPAC and both the Democratic and Republican Parties taught me a host of lessons about the limitations of U.S. democracy.  My eyes have been opened to how totally and thoroughly the U.S. state has been penetrated by operatives who have no interest in protecting or perfecting the United States of America.  Yet, the perpetrators of this disregard at best, treason at worst, would have the average U.S. resident believe that his or her problem is really the Blacks, Latinos, or Muslims.  I have learned that The Cabal (as I call this group) are very good at committing crimes and yet pointing the finger at everyone else while leaving a trail of tragedy and hurt behind them. For more information on how I was personally affected by this treatment, please see my book, Ain’t Nothing Like Freedom.  For an example of how another Congressional election was subverted by The Cabal, please read Gus Savage’s Congressional Record remarks about his experiences at the hands of the Israel Lobby.

Despite all of the negative things that have happened to me, I still believe that the people in the U.S. can create positive transformational change for themselves that will also be good for the rest of the world.  What I don’t know is if they will seize the opportunity to do so, while it is still possible.  Sharpening the technologies of death and applying them at home as well as abroad shapes the tenor of the times.  I fear that the democratic space for such positive change is drastically and rapidly closing.  The 2016 Presidential campaign could ring in the deathknell of freedom if either Hillary Clinton or Jeb Bush are elected and begin their tenures in the White House in 2017.

The Saker: My second question will be about race relations in the United States since the election of Barack Obama. Do you believe that the fact that a black president was elected somehow changed race relationships in the United States and is that a sign that race is not as important as it used to be or is race still a crucial factor in US politics?

Cynthia McKinney: Sadly, what President Barack Obama proved during his tenure was that Black men can kill for The Cabal just as easily as White males can.  Hillary Clinton has already demonstrated an extreme propensity to do as she is told by those who control the U.S. Deep State; another war criminal is not an acceptable choice for me for President of the United States.  Therefore, race relations in the U.S. have experienced an extreme setback.  However, my hope is that people now will understand that the transformational change (or as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. put it–the revolution of values) will not come because the people elect “the first,” but will only come when the people elect someone whose values represent their values of liberty, peace, truth, justice, and dignity.  Until the U.S. seeks professional help for its psychosis, slick Deep State operatives will continue to be able to have the more uninformed U.S. people salivating at the prospect of beating up someone because of their religion, race, language, accent, or intergenderedness.

The Saker: When I think of Colin Powell,  Susan Rice, Condoleezza Rice or Barack Obama, I am always amazed at the fact that they appear to be just as faithful servants of the AngloZionist Empire than their White counterparts.  Could that indicate that the race of a politician is really irrelevant and that class interest is far better predictor of political orientation than ethnicity?

Cynthia McKinney: I reject that it’s even class interest.  I agree with Wesley Clark who says that the U.S. has been taken over in a “policy coup” and either you’re willing to serve the new masters of the U.S. plantation or your are not.  As far as I am concerned, the four mentioned by you are not role models at all of Black aspiration.  Blacks in the U.S. are worse off with them at the helm and so are Africans, Asians, and peace-loving Europeans around the globe.  That these individuals could rise to such levels inside the U.S. only reveals that they were willing to put a dagger in the heart of the Black body politic for their own (and the interests that they represent) gain.  Of course, I was criticized when I said it, originally about Colin Powell but I think hindsight gives some who need glasses a bit more clarity of vision and I would generalize now to them all:  they chose to get a blood transfusion that sucked out their souls; they traded the chance to buy Ferragamo shoes for the tremendous opportunity that they had to do good in the world.  I know lots of people in the U.S. like that.  Some even call them “leaders.”  Here’s an interview that I recently did on the political situation inside the U.S.:  http://cprnews.podbean.

The Saker: What kind of future do you wish for Black Americans in the United States. Do you hope that they will integrate into a society in which race will not matter, or do you believe that blacks in the United States will create their own African American culture? Are you a supporter of a “melting pot” in which all races ethnicities and nationalities mix into one but lose their unique identity, or do you prefer a “toss salad” in which different ingredients are mixed but retain their unique individuality.

Cynthia McKinney: How boring the world would be if we all were exactly the same.  I LOVE diversity!  I celebrate diversity!  I learn from diversity!  That is political diversity, ideological diversity, as well as human and ecological diversity.  Therefore, I care as much about the impoverished child in the Mississippi Delta as I do about the malnourished child in Palestine as I do about children who have never tasted chocolate but work on Ivory Coast plantations so we can enjoy Mars Bars.  I care about the values that can make all people free to live their lives in a productive and responsible way–not dictated to by the IMF or World Bank or Washington Consensus.  I believe in Afro-Asian unity; I believe in the promise of the Non-Aligned Movement; I believe in the civil rights movement of the United States.  I believe that we can have justice if we first base it on truth; that we can have peace thereafter; and that the highest of these values is dignity for all.

The Saker: You have first hand experience with the “official” regime in power in Washington DC as well as the so-called “deep state” – those forces who hold the real reins of power and have the final authority to take crucial decision.  How would you describe these forces?  Who are they?  Are they bankers, or the corporate world in general, or are we talking about a few families? The Israel Lobby or the oil Lobby? Maybe the Military Industrial complex?  Or the police-prison complex? The intelligence and security agencies?

Cynthia McKinney: Yes, I have engaged directly with the apparatchiks of The Deep State.  I know their names, faces, and organizations.  Every two years when they think I will run for office to regain my Congressional seat, they also send stalkers to me.  I understand them more than they understand me.

My Dissertation Committee member, Dr. Peter Dale Scott, has written several books about The Deep State and its politics and events.  While I lost elections because of them, I won the hearts of many.  I’ve seen people who thought I was loony (as I’ve been publicly called) now become my supporters, followers, and admirers.  People seek me out now to apologize to me for believing all the negative media hype about me.  That negative media hype began in earnest when I turned The Deep State apparatchiks down each time they tried to enlist me in their schemes against the people.

What I have learned is that they are fallible; it is possible for the people who represent good in the world to win.  And win, we must.

The Saker: Ever since I read The Autobiography of Malcolm X man years ago I have been wondering why it is that there are monuments and road named after Martin Luther King everywhere but not a single monument or road named after Malcolm X.  I personally consider Malcolm X the greatest person to have been born in the USA and I have an infinite respect for him.  But it seems to me that the Black people in this country have turned away from him.  Is that so and, if yes, why?

Cynthia McKinney: I think it is important to understand the nature of the rise of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and the demise of both Malcolm X and Dr. King.  The U.S. government hated them both and is responsible for the murder of them both.  In 1963, when Malcolm X was murdered, both he and Dr. King had agreed to work together. Yes, they had vastly differing styles, but their unmanipulated objectives were the same.​  Malcolm’s strengths were King’s weaknesses and vice versa.  Therefore, together, they would have packed a mighty powerful punch.  That was cut short by assassins’ bullets.  After the murder of Malcolm X, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) Counter-Intelligence Program (COINTELPRO) leaders cackled in glee.  Next target, MLK.  Operation Lantern Spike was the military intelligence name given to the program to surveil/kill Dr. King.  Dr. King was the kinder, gentler Malcolm.  Dr. King was preferred by U.S. Whites to Malcolm, but White Resistance rejected them both.  And that’s why they both ended up dead by assassins’ bullets.  They both knew that the U.S. government wanted them dead and they both refused to stop.  They both are profiles in courage.  Please don’t get me started on the culture of manipulation that has overtaken the traditional Black culture that saw us through slavery, Jim Crow, and more.  Cultural invasion has taken place and the strength of Black culture has been decimated–like a cancer that takes over the body.  Without excision, the body will die.

The Saker: You have been a member of Congress and you have been a Green Party candidate for the Presidency.  What would you say to somebody like myself who believes that the US “democracy” is, indeed, the “best democracy money can buy”?  That instead of a “one person one vote” we live in a “one dollar one vote” system in which money, not popular opinion, decides of the future.  I personally believe that this system is rotten to the core and unreformable and that what the US needs is not “government change”, but “regime change”.  Do you believe that this oligarchic plutocracy can still reform itself and ever become a government of the “people, by the people, for the people” rather than the government of the “one percenters, by the one percenters and for the one percenters”?

Cynthia McKinney: The United States has never been a democracy.  It was founded on genocide and human trafficking and slavery.  Women were denied the right to vote.  What’s so democratic about that?  That’s why what’s needed is sobriety and a real understanding of what these people say with their palaver.  The world needs a translator for what these people in charge of the U.S. now mean when they say certain things and utter certain words.

The Saker: The capitalist economy is based on growth and yet we live in a finite environment: our world.  In your opinion, can there be such a thing as a “sustainable capitalism” and, if yes, how is capitalism different from a malignant tumor since the latter is also based on an infinite growth in a finite environment?  And if capitalism is inherently unsustainable, then what could replace it?

Cynthia McKinney: I recently wrote a four-part series on Capitalism for RT.com.  The first of the series appears here:  https://www.rt.com/op-edge/

The Saker: We all know the key role the Israel Lobby played in opposing you.  How would you access the power of that Lobby nowadays?  Do you believe that the tensions between Obama and Netanyahu are real and that Israel and the USA are drifting apart or is that just a veil hiding the reality of the power of the Zionist forces in the USA?  Is the grip of the Israel Lobby on Congress and the media getting weaker or is it still as strong as ever?

Cynthia McKinney: The Zionists are fully in control of the U.S. state.  One only need look at the Democratic and Republican Party Presidential “debates” to understand that.  What they increasingly do not control are the people of the U.S.  and that is where people who think like me come in.  It is imperative that we make a stand at this moment with the people and for the people.  The more the Zionists hit us the more obvious their beatings for nothing but expressing an opinion become to the masses.  Sort of like demanding an investigation of 9/11 and being hit over the head for it; eventually everyone will say, well, we do need an investigation of 9/11.  Now, the need for a 9/11 investigation is the new commonsense of the U.S.  In Europe, if you say that, you are called “anti-semitic” and subject to prosecution!  Can you believe it?  Why would Zionists not want anyone to even mention the need for a 9/11 investigation?

The Saker: How do you see the future of the USA – do you believe that this country will be able to transition from Empire to “normal country” (like so many other countries had to do in the past, including Spain, Portugal, Russia, the UK, Japan, Germany and many others) or will it take a major war, possibly with Russia and/or China to finally achieve regime change in the USA?

Cynthia McKinney: Not as long as the people who came up with The Samson Option have their fingers on the controls in the U.S., France, the U.K., and other states.  However, if they can be jettisoned, and a new kind of U.S. leadership can be exercised, I do believe that the U.S. will be able to live in peace with the rest of the world.  That is my hope.  Until then, I reiterate my words in my favorite speech:

“In 1957, Dr. King observed that both political parties had betrayed the cause of justice. And so it must be repeated today. Our beloved America is dividing again in two Americas. Our struggle is for nothing less than the soul of our country. We want an America that is respected in the commonwealth of man; we want our values to shine like a beacon around the world. As an American of conscience, I hereby declare my independence from every bomb dropped; every threat leveled, every civil liberties rollback, every child killed every veteran maimed every man tortured. And I sadly declare my independence from the leaders who let it happen.”

The Saker: thank you!