Note by the Saker: I want to express my deepest gratitude to Zoran for taking up my (always standing) invitation to express a point of view different than the one expressed by Johnny-on-the-spot in Serbia. And, just in case, I want to remind everybody that I take NO personal position on this issue. I hope that with Zoran’s column we can now have a discussion of substantive issues even if we vehemently disagree with each other. Kind regards, The Saker
by Zoran Petrov for The Saker Blog
I was also one who has sent complaints to Saker on reporting from Belgrade and the one who refused his request to write something about situation in Serbia. There are many reasons for my refusal – one of them is that I am a biodynamic farmer and right now is high season for us in the fields. But Saker´s open letter did make change of my mind! Even if it means being accused as one of “tyrant’s trolls and bots”.
In younger days I was deputy editor in chief of small Yugoslav weekly in Australia and one of the first rules for every journalist was to avoid in their articles attributes like the one in reporting from Belgrade – “Serbian tyrant”, “psychopath” or having statements like “the board of medical charlatans”, “illegitimate, fraudulently elected deputies” without giving argumentation for such statements. Or better to say – without substance.
Instead manipulative “the people of Belgrade” good journalist would write (small or large) group of people, huge crowd, etc. and poetic expressions like “Serbia has now sunk to the darkest depths of the Middle Ages…”, “it is the descent of a proud country and noble nation into the malodorous septic tank…” would never be printed…
But what is happening in Serbia? Although everything seems quite obvious to Johnny-on-the-spot in Belgrade, questions must be raised about true influences and powers play in Serbia.
Good starting point could be series of lectures given by Rudolf Steiner in 1916 and firstly published as “Karma of Untruthfulness “in 1948. Steiner gave many lectures on nature of political events of his time. Quite interesting is his remark in 1918 that “Russian revolution was a social experiment that will last 70 years”! There are nice insights in his lectures into events that happened before WWI and background info on real causes that led to WWI.
Steiner claimed that there was quite obvious clear intention of secret Anglo-Saxon brotherhoods to destroy 4 empires based on strong religious impulses – German, Austro-Hungarian, Russian and Ottoman empire!
Back in 1893, an elusive Englishman named Charles George Harrison delivered a series of six lectures to the Berean Society, a London based association of Christian esotericists. Harrison, described as a “mysterious and unknown figure,” was an English occultist and Anglican Christian. In his second lecture Harrison spoke of “the next great European war” and of how the “national character” of the Slavic peoples would “enable them to carry out experiments in Socialism, political and economical, which would present innumerable difficulties in Western Europe.”[1]
These brotherhoods took active roles after WWI, from forming new states to establishing new borders like the one between Serbia and new countries of Hungary and Romania (free masons even published a book about how demarcation line was settled among them for newly established Yugoslavia). What is less known is their role in Ottoman empire destruction – major figures in Young Turk movement were at least Freemasons. The role of Dönmeh[2] members is quite intrigant and hard to follow due to their secrecy. The fact is that direct responsibility for Armenian genocide does not lay on some, of those days religious fanatic Al Kaida, but on western educated and western leaning, young Turks like Talaat Pasha (one of 4 feared Pashas) that ruled during last days of Ottoman Empire. Talaat Pasha comes from Dönmeh environment in Salonika, 33rd Scottisch Rite Freemason, minister of interior, etc., masterminded genocide of Armenian people. Today whole Turkish nation is blamed for this genocide! “Good thing” was Young Turks decision to turn Aja Sofia into museum as today is “bad thing” by Erdogan to turn in back into mosque!
With these hints in mind maybe we could start to check what is happening in Serbia right now! Is Serbia better place now then 8 years ago? I remember when several Serbian governments unsuccessfully tried to sell 2 black holes of Serbian budget – Bor copper mine[3] and Smederevo Foundry[4]. Roughly 500 millions of euros went to cover wages and maintenance costs of these two unproductive companies. No one wanted to buy any of these companies even when the sale for 1 euro for each of them (There was short episode with US company that bought Smederevo Steel Mill for 1 euro but returned it back to Serbian state after they melted surplus of tanks and artillery pieces from Serbian army)! During Vucic rule he managed to bring Chinese companies that paid good money for these companies with commitment to make further investments into modernization as well in environmental protection. Serbian state is minority shareholder and more importantly it has 500 euros more in annual budget!
Long overdue modernization of Serbian army did take place (but we are not going into this topic) and it might have some connection with interesting events:
1. in 2018 Chinese president XI and Vucic discussed possible purchase of FK3 (frankensteined S-300 and Patriot missile defence system);
2. in 2019 and 2020 Serbian solders took training in Russia on S-400 missile defence system;
3. in 2020 Russia brought S-400 missile defense system to Serbia for a joint military exercise.
4. This month it became public information that Serbia actually bought FK – 3 from China[5]
How do we connect all these dots, are Russians and Chinese so stupid to play Vucic games, Western puppet? Why would Serbian soldiers spend nearly 2 years in Russia on training how to use S-400 when government already bought FK-3!?
Even more interesting events took part in the last 60 days! But Johnny-on-the-spot in Belgrade, somehow overlooked it. Instead, of all 2 million something Belgrade citizens, he focused his attention on handful (at most 1000) active protestors?!
Chain of events started with sudden visit of FM Lavrov to Belgrade on 18th of June. After meeting with Lavrov, grim Vucic warned of “difficult times ahead”[6] :
1. protests started by small group of people (because “fraudulent election”) eventually swelled on one day to maybe 6-7000 people. But after violence by some, number of protestors decreased rapidly in the matter of 48 hours! Interestingly, police arrested young men from Ukraine and Turkmenistan (with Israel passports), from Great Britain, etc. fully prepared for fight with police.
It is hard to believe that security services in Serbia were not aware of preparation for protests. It could be even that Lavrov brought those information? It is obvious to me that firecracker was prematurely ignited (aikido scenario) and gave Vucic nice pretext for negotiation in Brussels to show his counterparts that he is not at peace at home because Kosovo but also to get some more space for maneuver after uncomfortable complete majority in Serbian parliament!
2. US mediated Serbia/Kosovo negotiation was postponed as a blow to Trump[7]
3. Brussels mediated Serbia/Kosovo negotiation came “back on track”[8] whatever it means.
4. Serbia contacted US to buy 20 bombers[9] but if US refuses it, Serbia will find someone else where to buy it (Russia).
5. Serbian army entered Kosovo in joint border with NATO KFOR[10]. Press statement from KFOR confirmed event adding that everything was in accordance with UN resolution 1244 and Kumanovo Agreement (The Military Technical Agreement signed between the International Security Force (KFOR) and the Governments of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and the Republic of Serbia) !?!?[11]
And, yes, Corona did something to Serbian government that started frantically to invest hundreds of millions of euros in health system of Serbia that was devastated during last 30 years. Many new hospitals are going to be built as a matter of urgency, complete restructuring of microbiological labs in Serbia, state owned Torlak (in older days major vaccine provider for Asia and Afrika) was resurrected amid claims that it was sold. Veil of silence was lifted and we know now that Torlak still produces influenza vaccine among others. State of art new labs were bought or donated from China…
So many news in so few days! Chess game is in full swing and we need good and thoughtful reports from Belgrade!
It is important to remember – when Vucic came to power he was immediately accused of being Western pawn that should finalize Kosovo independence. He might be a Western man in Serbia but he did not give Kosovo independence yet!
Notes:
- https://www.newdawnmagazine.com/articles/brothers-of-the-shadows-overlords-of-chaos ↑
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%B6nmeh ↑
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zijin_Bor_Copper ↑
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesteel_Serbia ↑
- https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/08/03/world/europe/03reuters-serbia-arms-china.html ↑
- http://rs.n1info.com/English/NEWS/a611225/Belgrade-additionally-worries-about-Kosovo-after-Moscow-s-estimatesBelgrade-additionally-worries-abo.html ↑
- https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/25/world/europe/serbia-kosovo-trump-hashim-thaci.html ↑
- https://www.rferl.org/a/leaders-of-kosovo-serbia-to-hold-talks-in-eu-effort-to-reboot-dialogue/30721718.html ↑
- https://www.voanews.com/europe/serbia-seeks-purchase-more-warplanes-strengthen-its-armed-forces-potentially-russia ↑
- https://exit.al/en/2020/08/09/serbian-army-entered-kosovo-in-joint-border-patrol-with-natos-kfor-mission/ ↑
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumanovo_Agreement ↑
Eh, Zorane, Zorane. Serbian solders took training on S-400 only for Serbia to buy chinese FK-3?!? And that is logical to you? Why you did not explain this logic? Maybe chinese bought S-400 for us, renamed it to FK-3 and sold it to us? That is so smart! Although I think that name should have been FK-4 not FK-3 because we might think that serbians payed for S-400 and they will get S-300. Or maybe, it was done to confuse americans? Also, in your text you simply explained that “serbian” government and traitor’s responses are driven by internal/external causes. They do not have any plan on anything, well, except for how to steal more money. As for the protesters on the street, they came out only after traitor threatened that he will close everyone in home over the weekend. None of them thought about Serbians in Kosovo who are closed in their homes for 20 yeas now …
Stekicar
At last we have someone – Zoran – disputing what Mr.Johnny-on-the-spot has been writing and immediately we have a counter reaction from a Mr. Stekicar, who is doing his best to support the “analysis” of Mr.Johnny-on-the-spot.
Well Mr. Stekicar, the first part of your comment is provocative, as you are doing your best to create doubts in the minds of people about Serbian purchases of Russian and Chinese AA systems. You “forgot” to mention that a few months back the Russians displayed the S-400 and the Pantsir AA systems in Belgrade. The S-400 was returned to Russia, with Putin stating that in case of an emergency (ie, a new NATO attack against Serbia), that it can be shipped back to Serbia in just 24 hours. What you also “forgot” to mention is the fact that the Pantsir was not returned to Russia, staying in Serbia and becoming part of Serbia’s AA systems. A few days ago even the Croatian minister of defense admitted that the Serbian military was stronger than Croatia’s.
In the second part of your comment, you stated “As for the protesters on the street, they came out only after traitor threatened that he will close everyone in home over the weekend”. Indeed. You, too, are calling President Vućić a “traitor”, a little psychological trick to create the impression that he was going to “recognize” the independence of the first narco state in Europe, the so-called “Republic of Kosova”. No, he is not going to do that. I don’t remember how many times the liberals in Serbia promulgated this little piece of disinformation. As for the “protesters, no, we did not have any “protesters” in the usual sense of the word. What we did have was a riot, organized by liberals and western NGO’s, who used football hooligans for an attack against the police guarding the Parliament, hoping to grab the Parliament building. The hooligans were initially joined by teenagers. However, as I have written before, after a few days the teenagers backed off, realizing they have been played and used as stooges.
I am very pleased that Zoran published this article. I, too, was one of those readers who sent E-Mails to The Saker, expressing anger at Mr. Johnny-on-the-spot reporting of events in Belgrade, which had nothing to do with reality (like calling President Vućić a “tyrant” and stating that Serbia had returned to the “Middle Ages”, which is absolute nonsense). The Saker answered that I could always write an article. I did not, as all I could have written was one sentence, namely that the situation in the country was normal, as it is. This morning I again passed by the Parliament building. Not a single cop to be seen, not a single “demonstrator” to be seen. What I did see, however, was one soldier who was spraying the steps of the Parliament building against possible infection by the Corona virus. That’s all. My compliments to The Saker for permitting this article to be published.
Speaking of Torlak … Torlak was selling 90% of its vaccines to Non-Aligned Movement countries and they were considered safe to use. “Yellow” party, then on power, sold 30% of Torlak to Novartis. Novartis controls 100% of Torlak. They do not make anything until Novartis approves it. Traitor promised that he will break contract with Novartis which never happened. Do we know why? Maybe because half of “yellow” party is now in SNS party …
It is true what Zoran says, Johnny was getting a bit histrionic and lacking substance in his last article especially.
I don’t see how Vucic could cede Kosovo and live. In my experience, no one in Belgrade likes him. But then, a lot of people don’t realize how they got hoodwinked in the pre-color revolution that took down Milosevic. In a disgruntled nation without a plan and that doesn’t generally think ahead, the one-eyed, and droopy-lipped, man is king. Even if Vucic was put in to sell out, doesn’t mean he’ll play along. How old was he when he was Minister of Information? Youngest ever graduate from the tough law faculty here? He’s not as dumb as he looks.
Is Zoran more convincing than Johnny? He gives some nice facts for Vucic’s ‘pro’ column while Johnny gave a lot of innuendo, but most people here are still making like 400 euro a month and running out before the month is through. Who’s fault is that though, probably more the descendants of those masons.
So, chetnik wannabes, without tho SFRJ’s ties to the PRC, where would Serbia be now in its balancing game between east and west? -ism this, -ism that, stop projecting your ego on abstract concepts like the nation. Domestic actors in Yugoslavia had more of the financial and coercive means to pursue their perceived interests than any domestic actors have in the paradise of national independence that exists today. And the legacy of solidarity in the face of anti-aglo-suprematism, solidarity between Serbia and China is keeping the boat afloat.
Diffusion rather than monopolization of sovereignty, the practical and psychological means to pursue perceived interests, is desirable. Serbia is in many ways crushed, but it’s a bit impressive how much sovereignty they have retained against implacable, arch-manipulative foes.
@Ingrian
“I don’t see how Vucic could cede Kosovo and live.” – this is the only thing that keeps traitor from giving up on Kosovo. This is why he is giving all these high treason talks hoping it will gather support from mind-lost Serbs:
1. https://emerging-europe.com/news/serbian-president-we-have-lost-kosovo/
2. https://www.rferl.org/a/vucic-says-deal-with-kosovo-should-guarantee-serbia-s-eventual-eu-membership/29488642.html
3. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-balkans-serbia/serbian-president-says-he-wants-eu-membership-guarantee-as-part-of-kosovo-deal-idUSKCN1LT2EY
4. http://rs.n1info.com/English/NEWS/a509608/Vucic-says-Serbia-can-t-recognize-Kosovo-in-present-circumstances.html
5. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-serbia-kosovo/accept-reality-serbia-does-not-control-kosovo-vucic-idUSKCN1SX1U2
6. https://www.gisreportsonline.com/serbia-prepares-to-change-course-on-kosovo,politics,2415.html
He even tried to convince Serbs that Putin is ok with his treason. That did not go well as we know it because russian ambassador cleared confusion traitor caused it.
It is noticable that you invest great effort to “prove” that Vucic said this, and said that, as a “proof” that he is going to recognize Kosovo independence….
Why that fixation?
If you are right, ok, no problem, we will cross that bridge when and if we come to it… jumping on conclusions, based on rumors, articles from western media (I do not care if he lied them about Kosovo), is plain stupid.
So, ither you are stupid, or you have an agenda, which is not “patriotic” at all, and you need Vucic out of office…
p.s. did you notice how Vucic, at the beginning of his mandate used to compare himself with Prince Miloš Obrenović? Do you know that Prince Miloš Obrenović ruled Serbia autonomuos principality of Ottoman Empire, and was a vassal to Ottomans? Do you get it? Do you get what Vucic told us? He told us that we are not free and souvereign country, but colony, NATO colony, and that we cannot do what free and indepedent countries can do…
Well, besides a “holier than thou” attitude towards Jonny-on-the-spot’s adjectives and descriptive phrases, I found this quoting of Steiner? a bit baffling since many dots were thrown down over a wide area ( including Turkey) but none were connected. Ah yes, that is because we are dealing with secret societies lurking in the depths–nice catch-22 excuse for not being able to prove anything.
So what is the task that the “national character” of the Serbian people ( if I may be so bold as to use that outre phrase) has been called upon by the “historical impulse” to perform these days? And a few ( how many?) young men holding foreign passports were arrested and that means, what? exactly? Were they guest workers or students at local universities?
And which vaccine will be mandated and pressed upon the Serbian population? The Russian one or the Gates’s. Or like the putative airplane deal will it be maybe if the one sale falls through and politics dictate ( or the pocketbook of the Serbian elites) then the other one can go ahead?
I regret to say, I find this analysis incoherent, disjointed and disingenuous to say the least. But mostly it is not persuasive one bit so I await the occurrence of more events and further analysis in order to gain clarity.
“protests started by small group of people (because “fraudulent election”) eventually swelled on one day to maybe 6-7000 people.”
Are you kidding me? 6-7 thousand? Are we talking July 7th? That is just patently false.
There were round about 6-7 thousand people on June 20th at Srdjan Nogo’s protest, and that one is nowhere near in terms of size to what happened on July 7th. I should know, I was there at both.
FFS there are photos from July 7th that show only parts of the crowd where you can see more people than that.
And one more thing, did 6-7 thousand people warrant using the police, the gendarmerie, the special antiterrorist unit, the cavalry, dogs, rubber bullets, and a neverending barrage of tear gas, indiscriminate and totally unwarranted beatings all over the place, well into the night?
I swear to God, there was tear gas raining down on us every 3 minutes. I didnt eat for two days after that.
I mean, the gall some people have is just.. beyond belief.
You think the people forgot what happened ZORAN? Or whatever your name is?
Think again. T-h-i-n-k a-g-a-i-n .
I did a quick glance at Zoran’s footnotes: Of 11– 4 were from Wikipedia, 1 from VOA and 2 from the NYT so out of 11 ” sources” 7 were questionably partisan to say the least.
Of the other 4 …newdawn ( a woo-woo, cerebral metaphysical source in my un-humble opinion) was one and then 3 others which I was too disgusted to check out.
Get a life. Steiner died in 1932? Deification of a dead master just makes for uncreative analysis but on the other hand does make for great biodynamic munchies, I must admit!!! Time to make like Voltaire and cultivate that garden.
You can always google my name and see my face and hear what I stand for :) What about You :)?
There appears to be some lack of clarity when invoking the principles of international law when comparing the (possible) secession of Kosovo from Serbia with the (accomplished) secession of Crimea from Ukraine.
The Russian government points to the fact that the Crimean separation from Ukraine was based on that particular region’s overwhelming popular vote.
The natural question then is, why could not that very same principle apply to separation of Kosovo from Serbia? This being neither about the sentiments in Ukraine and Serbia, nor the geopolitical desires of external parties big & small, but purely about the letter of the international law – if there is such a thing, that is.
To put it another way: why would Putin wish to object to Kosovo’s secession – and thus undermine his own legal case for reunification with Crimea?
Come to think … perhaps Putin has not yet publicly declared himself on Kosovo … or has he?…
“… perhaps Putin has not yet publicly declared himself on Kosovo … or has he?…”
Yes, he has. Russia supports sovereignty and territorial integrity of Serbia.
Russia will support negotiated settlement that Serbia agrees on, provided that it is based on UN Security Council Resolution 1244 that guaranties sovereignty and territorial integrity of Serbia, among other things.
As of Crimea, for Russia, that question is permanently solved and closed. They see no need to further discus that matter with a West.
International law – West opened Pandora box when they attacked Yugoslavia and separated Kosovo few years later, claiming that it was an exception that cannot be used as an example in other places.
Well, it seems that others can make “exceptions” to …
As of Kosovo, it is separated without a vote, by the way.
@ Corto
Yes, I do agree 100%
“… International law – West opened Pandora box when they attacked Yugoslavia and separated Kosovo few years later, claiming that it was an exception that cannot be used as an example in other places. …”
Of course, that clinches it. “International law” my foot (мачку о реп, as the Serbs say): it is “invoked” exclusively on a per need basis – when it suits the invoker.
Hitler put it all in proper perspective when (according to Hermann Rauschning’s memoirs) he said, “politics is a game where the rules change according to the skills of the game-players”.
with Kosovo and Metohia facts stand like this:
Dresden, 1928. – Communistic Party of Yugoslavia declared Serbs as enemies of communism.
Jajce, 1943. – bunch of communists gathered in Jajce, declared themselves as “representatives” of Kingdom of Yugoslavias people, and decided to federalize Jugoslavia, creating “national republics” in which “mayority of the nation live”. All but Serbs got even more than they had hoped for. 40% Serbs were “left” in SR Croatia, and SR Bosnia and Herzegovina. They were fooled by out-or-the-hat formulation – “constituitive nation”. But, in those days, you vote for Tito, or you were murdered. It is well known fact that Tito and Communists NEVER won election in Serbia, and those results had to be rigged (according to account of my relatives, who were members of voting commision).
1944. – Communists decision – adding Serbia 2 Autonomous Provinces (cutting Serbia in 3 parts) – Vojvodina and Kosovo and Metohia.
Serbia, 1945, – Communist monsters forbade return of Serb refugees, ethnically cleansed from their homes by Albanian Nazi collaborators, to Kosovo and Metohia.
Serbia, after the ww2 – Communist Tyrants issued a decre calling all Shokci and Bunjevci nations to declare themselves as Croats from that point on. (at the beginning of 20th century RCC, Vatican issued a decree ordering all Roman Catholics to declare themselves as Croats!?)
Serbia, 1950s – factories from Serbia were being disassembled and moved to west, in Croatia and Slovenia.
Serbia, 1950s, 1960s – an infux of Albanian immigrants from Albania, fleing from Enver Hodxa Communist Tyrant regime. Yugoslav Communists welcome refugees from Albania, by giving them homes and land of Serbs forbidden to return. Some 400 – 500.000 Albanians settle in Kosovo and Metohia. Immidiately problems with Albanians started. A huge amounts of money was poured into KandM.
Macedonia, 1967. – Yugoslav Communist Tyrants gave to “Macedonians” Ohrid Archiepiscopy and all Churches and Monastaries of Serbian Orthodox Church which reside on teritory of Socialist Republic of Macedonia. Communists declare Macedonian Orthodox Chruch, which was not canonised util today. Same happens in Montenegro these days.
Serbia, 1974. New Constitution, among other Serbian APs got more power. Serbian Justice System, Law and order officers has no juristiction in AP Vojvodina or AP Kosovo and Metohia.
So, it is clear that Albanian majority in Kosovo and Metohia was result of criminal deeds, social engineering, ethnic cleansing, importing of huge number of Albanians to Kosovo, done by Communists.
As a reader interested in knowing the truth or at least getting closer to it, I always hope to read comments or articles that clarify the situation in some parts of the planet Earth such as Belarus, Serbia, Ukraine, Venezuela, Mexico, etc. etc. About some of them I have very good sources of information, but Serbia is a point where I could not understand what was happening. The latest events always made me sting and I was half in the clouds, not knowing for example if Vucic is a Tyrant or the defender of what little remains of Serbian socialism. I already have a bit of clarity, let’s say that the wind that blows in the Saker Blog has managed to remove the mists of uncertainty somewhat and I only hope that it continues to blow for the good of the informational health of the West.
To better understand what is going on in Serbia it is best to compare Serbia with any south american country with exception of Venezuela. There was a coup and western puppets came to power. Traitor (aka vucic) is not tyrant because students overruled his decision to close students dorm with just one protest … or later, when 20k people got on the street to protest when he decided to put whole country in house arrest for weekend due to Covid-19. On both occasions, he did not dare to proceed with his intentions. Tyrant is not scared of people he rules over. He is just a western puppet who was brought to “power” to recognize Kosovo as independent state. Meanwhile, he and his criminals are trying to rob the country as much as they can. Latest example: traitor was saying that Serbia will be among first countries to get Covid-19 vaccine. Today, when russians announced vaccine he was mute. He did not say that Serbia will get vaccine, he just said that vaccine should be tested to see if it is safe to use. If westerners were the one to announce vaccine, he we would have prayed vaccine. That’s his style. No one pays attention to it, but all ex-YU states closed their borders almost on the same date. This tells me that they were told what to do, they did not do it by themselves.
“Middle path is the path of wisdom” Buddha – but what is today middle could be extreme tomorrow :)
“Ja ne odlučujem da li ću ići u bitku po tome kakva je sila koja me prati nego po tome koliku svetinju branim.” – Knez Lazar
For non-serbian speaking readers: I do not choose which battle I’ll fight based on the might of my army but on shrines I want to defend. – Serbian King Lazar before battle on Kosovo field with Ottoman sultan Murat.
We are all subjective and have our point of view into the world.
Some are more rational, some more emotional. Zoran is more rational then Johny who is
missing the spot . Serbia is between aggressive NATO West and Russia trying to find its place
just in between. Very hard task .
How long Vucic or Serbia can survive non-aligned or neutral ?
Hard to say but not for very long ,
West is very unhappy with Vucic’s non-alignment ( like with Yanukovich and Lukashenko).
Russia and China accepts neutrality ,just avoiding NATO .
So, for NATO Vucic is tyrant and Vucic must go ( Like Assad etc.)
All the rest is rhetoric.
“Serbia is between aggressive NATO West and Russia trying to find its place just in between. Very hard task.” – This is not first time for Serbia to be in this situation. Serbia was between Russia, Turkey and Austro-Hungaria in 1800-1900+ and it managed not only to survive but to even gain territories back from Turkey. But we had a statesman in those times and not a puppet like we have now. This traitor has a hard time to decide between enemy (NATO) and ally (Russia). How hard is it to chose?
Russia isn’t exactly a particularly dependable ally under Putin. Ask the Syrians what Russian alliance got them when zionist bombs and missiles strike them with impunity.
It hard to choose because Serbia is divided . Upper classes or “elite “ are mostly pro-western both left liberals and right Royalist and others . Some pro western are very much anti-Russian (like in many East European countries) . Majority of people are pro-Russian. So it is a problem to win elections if you hate Russia specially after NATO aggression that is still present in minds of people. This pro-western snobisme of the “elite” (shopping in Oxford Street -London and sipping cappuccino in Venice) goes with feeling of superiority. Russia is second- class.So Vucic , compared to other leaders is if not pro-Russian then least anti-Russian and he wins. Do you have a leader who can replace Tyrant Vucic democratically ?
West can remove him only by color revolution and they will continue to try .
One can only “see” the invisible in the visible with the wisdom of the heart which is seat of higher emotion but then magicians like to think they can coax the visible from the invisible somehow and that their way is more important–it does seem to involve at lot of blab and blather, high falutin arcane vocabulary etc. etc.
The mystics know better…I think Steiner was able to do both-too bad the Nazis burned his temple.
Why empty can makes the most noise ? ( unlike the squeaky wheel which gets the grease)
Only when it is being kicked down the rocky road of assuredly good intentions and echoes thesehollow promises.
How visible is hidden in the invisible ( yawn, ho-hum) is less interesting than how the invisible is hidden in the visible. But that is the difference between the metaphysician and the scientist, no? Between Malkuth and Keter.
A courageous effort, Zorane, given the heated debates the Serbia Sitreps have generated.
You have listed events which are factually backed up, however you then add your own very subjective narrative. For each event you list, I can provide an alternative and equally plausible narrative.
For example the purchase of the Smederevo plant by Chinese HeSteel. You attribute this to Vucic “bringing in the Chinese”. What if this had nothing to do with Vucic and is actually the OBOR arriving in E Europe? The Chinese bought the plant in 2016 which is the same year they took a majority stake in Piraeus. They need steel for their infrastructure projects.
You mention the joint patrol of a village in Kosovo with NATO & Serbian soldiers and claim that this is accordance with UN1244. So now the US respects UN1244? What if it has nothing to do with UN1244 but is in fact a message to the Kosovo Albanians to remember their allegiance? The US are wary about the Albanian loyalties to Turkey and were probably not too happy how they extradited the Gulenists who train at Camp Bondsteel to Erdogan..(.july 15 was an anniversary of that failed coup and Turkey celebrated this event with the Kosovo Albanians ) ..
Regarding the allegations of foreign intervention in the protests, there were many (Russia for one) There is also the story on twitter of a Scottish fellow, accused of being an alleged foreign agitator, who insists he was simply walking in the street when he was arrested and had his passport scanned…
Finally, this perhaps OT with regard to the Serbia situation..I didn’t understand your preamble about the Young Turks and Ottoman empire and freemasonry. In order to enter into Freemasonry you need to be religious They do not accept atheists. Presumably the Young Turks entered as Muslims…?
As for the Donmeh they are cryptojews. Jews and the Ottoman empire have had a long and cosy relationship. When the Spanish inquisition kicked them out of Spain in 1492 the jews were welcomed with open arms by the Sultan. The symbiotic relationship between Ottoman Turkey and Jews continues to this day between NATO Turkey and Israel.
Btw, Turkey as the successor state to the Ottoman empire is absolutely responsible for the actions of the Young Turks and all the crimes and genocides (Armenian, Assyrian and Greek) committed by the Ottomans, including those on our own people (which also continue to this day with their proxies in the Balkans).
It is very hard to justify what SNS government are doing with Kosovo and Metohija. One has to have a thick skin to not get affected by the vocabulary Vucic uses to prime the nation for the treason. It is bad manners to start repeating what has been said on this blog in the last 3-4 reports about Serbia. The Russians often have to remind Vucic and his Foreign Affairs Minister Dacic of UN Resolution 1244. The dismantling of the Serbian sovereignty in Kosovo and Methohija, especially the installation of hard borders and forcing the Serbs in the north of Kosovo and Metohija to take part in the terrorist/NATO elections cannot be forgiven. The judges were forced to take the pledge under the terrorist so-called constitution. Police in the north of Kosovo and Metohija now reports to the terrorists. He has taken a step back when he saw the resolve of the people on the first day of the Belgrade protest (afterwards it was co-oped by him and the Sorosoids). The people will not accept de-jure demarcation of Serbia with Serbia (advocated by Vucic and his party), will not be locked up again and will not accept mandatory vaccination. He cancelled the by-him planned lockdown but he has to go and soon.
However, the situation in the world is very fluid and come November the US will be in tumultuous state to put it mildly. The Hegemon is mortally wounded. Its demonic power is gushing out but it only adds to the omnipresent danger. Serbia needs stability and even if it means with this very unstable guy at the helm. Vacuum will be created with the hegemon departing. Security threats will increase and the economic model will need to be changed come autumn as the neo-feudal system is living its last days. The so-called foreign investments have all but dried out which was the main mantra of the governments from the year 2000 onward. There have been so many grave errors committed in the last 20 years. Those responsible will need to be held accountable and wealth redistributed from the hands of the chosen few in cahoots with Soros and his bosses back into the hands of the state which will need funds to feed the people and keep them moving.
@Marko
“There have been so many grave errors committed in the last 20 years.” – Do you really think that those were “errors”? “Hoće centrala da pogreši jednom ali ne sto puta” – excerpt from “Balkanski špijun” movie.
Serbians tend to call people incompetent when they see that something is not done right. That would have been true from a stand point that those “people” are supposed to do something good. But, simply by changing the point of you, that “people” are supposed to do something bad, it turns out that those “people” are actually extremely competent.
Thank you, Zoran Petrov, for this article. I would like to repeat what I’ve asked already: what actual evidence, not innuendo, not speculation, not unhinged rants, but evidence, is there that Aleksandar Vucic is
1. A NATO/EU tool
2. About to hand over Kosovo?
Now I’m perfectly willing to admit it if I’m wrong, but as far as I know the Vucic regime has *not* yet made any attempt to change the preamble of the Serbian constitution to remove references to Kosovo. The Vucic regime has *not* yet made any move to formally recognise Kosovo. Therefore, unless evidence to the contrary becomes available, it would seem to me that the logical conclusion is that the Vucic regime has no intention of abrogating Serbian claims over Kosovo.
Now this is where an interesting contrast between Zoran Petrov’s carefully worded, sourced article, and our pseudonymous regular writer on Serbia becomes evident. Petrov has based his article on linked facts; he is not speculating. Johnny, on the other hand, has been, in his intemperate missives, made numerous and repeated predictions – on the lines of “the Serb tyrant’s fall is imminent” – which have all so far failed completely to come true. His other prediction, that Vucic would recognise Kosovo,has also failed to come true so far. But he’s hedged that particular prediction. How? He’s already laid the groundwork for walking it back; if Vucic doesn’t recognise Kosovo, it’s because he is terrified of the protestors. All thirty or forty of them.
This suggests that unlike Zoran, Johnny knows what he is saying is not true and not going to come true.
Once again, Zoran Petrov, thank you.
Yes there is evidence Vucic is about to recognize Kosovo through the UN, that is he wants to change the constitution and remove the lines which states Kosmet being an inalienable part of Serbia.
So where is this evidence? If it is there, why has he not done it yet? If he’s planning to do it, when? If he doesn’t do it at all, does that mean the “evidence” was hogwash to begin with?
Here is the evidence:
“Marko on August 12, 2020 · at 1:44 am EST/EDT”
Just find this post above. non-essential statement removed .. mod
I saw it and I classify it as innuendo and speculation. Let Vucic introduce a resolution on his allegedly puppet parliament to change the preamble – as prophesied over and over ad nauseam by Johnny – and I’ll count that as evidence. Until then, it’s innuendo and speculation.
Biswapriya,
You ask for evidence that he has about to recognise Kosovo. I’d like to see evidence of the contrary.
One encouraging remark, one gesture to the Orthodox Christians who live there to show he has not abandoned them?
8 year of not recognizing it… is it good enough for you? how much do you need? are you gonna write the same in 5-10-20 years? how much is enough?
Kosovo independence was in 2008.
We had several governments including openly pro-western ones since then, who also did not recognise Kosovo. Does that make them any less complicit with the west?
You ask for evidence to the contrary.
That’s like asking Saddam Hussein to prove that he did not have WMDs.
You make the allegation, you prove it. That’s the whole basis of the presumption of innocence, as well as common sense.
Biswapriya Purkayastha
I’m unsure whether you read Serbian but the evidence is openly available on the government’s own website, listing the progress of the regular talks as agreed upon in the initial Brussel Agreement signed by Ivica Dacic in 2013:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_Agreement_(2013)
http://www.kim.gov.rs/pregovaracki-proces.php
To summarise:
Serbia agrees to begin normalization talks with its breakaway province that it refuses to recognise – contradicting the Constitution of 2006 stating that Kosovo & Metohija is a part of Serbia.
Minister Dacic signs a 15 point plan of which the first 6 agree upon the creation of an Association of Serbian Municipalities that will function under the Kosovo Constitution… Yet to be implemented.
The remaining points involve Serbia agreeing to a unified Kosovo police with similar security institutions to integrate into Kosovo security and police, Judicial institutions will intergrate into Kosovo, local elections will be held in accordance with Kosovo law, talks will contiune regarding energy and telecommunication, neither side will block each others steps toward EU ascension and both parties will form work with the EU towards implementing this plan…
Since 19.4.2013 Serbia has willingly handed over every last institution that existed to Kosovo with the only one remaining loyal to Serbia being the SOC but even then with the removal of Bishop Artemije the US-EU succeed in removing a loud voice against the treasonous activities of the Nikolic-Dacic-Vucic governments and replacing him with a passive bishop who happily welcomes Kosovo and international dignitaries and has accepted to be integrated into local institutions to remain custodians to the 1,500 or so churches and monasteries that Kosovo wishes to claim as its own cultural heritage when it gains entry into UNESCO…
Technical talks followed where patriotic Vucic happily agreed to give away the remaining jurisdiction over real estate, births, deaths & marriages, customs and integrating the 4 border posts into Kosovo’s budget, not blocking Kosovo’s application for membership into international organisations (IOC, FIFA, UEFA, etc), freedom of movement which only exists for Albanians as Serbian citizens/politicians now need to apply to Pristina to enter Kosovo??? Insurance, Civil Defence, opening the bridge crossing on the Ibar river in K. Mitrovica…
That’s why Vucic proudly exclaims that everything is lost and that Serbia must do everything to ensure the ZSO is implemented knowing full well that Pristina has neglected its obligations from 2013 and will never grant Serbian majority in the North any form of autonomy but the blind continue to believe that Serbia will never recognise an independent Kosovo…?
What more proof do you need that Vucic has already signed away Kosovo and before you mention the fact that 19 countries have recently renounced their recognition then that is fabulous but in large part due to Russian lobbying and not due to the Foreign Minister Dacic who has no diplomatic skills and only speaks Serbian and failed geography in school…
In no way is this to defend the previous governments who happily agreed to circumvent the UN SC and Resolution 1244 and instead insisted to have the EU manage talks weakening Serbia’s position both domestically and internationally!
http://www.nspm.rs/kosovo-i-metohija/spc-i-tzv.-spoljasnji-dijalog-o-kosovu-i-metohiji-od-2011.-do-2018.-godine.html
I commend the Saker for showing greater interest in Serbian affairs and thank Zoran for his write up, even if I don’t agree with all of his arguements.
Unfortunately President Vucic is the worst of the leaders that have ruled Serbia since 2000 and his initial promises to reverse the treasonous agreements and policies of the Democrats that ruled before were a lie and if anything, the ruling SNS party has accelerated Western integration by signing more agreements with the EU & NATO, expanded on the criminal talks with the secessionists in Kosovo by signing the Brussel Agreement in 2013 and extending so-called talks each year of his rule practically granting the break away independence and is at the final step where formal recognition or even worse passive acceptance of Kosovo to the UN and similar international organisations such as UNESCO, Interpol as his regime already watched silently as Kosovo joined FIFA, UEFA, IOC, etc…
Don’t believe me than I suggest you watch an interview with former Slobodan Milosevic bodyguard Goran Pajic who articulates clearly the agreements Vucic has signed resulting in Serbia practically being one step away from NATO and that the Serbian population are silent to the crimes of successive governments since 2000 and I don’t see any viable candidate or opposition to steer Serbia towards a better future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgJ5mefNA3c&t=5744s – 1:30 minute mark.
Vucic is not worst! You may not like him, or do not agree with his politics as I do, but it was obviously better choice by far from DOS, NATO payed traitors, bought for peanuts (40 million $, by their own addmition!).
And it was not hard for him to be in that place – I can define 2000-2012 period as a worst nightmare period in my life, and I remember Tyrant Tito! Open NATO collaboratoration, openly destroyed economy, destroyed tanks and artillery weapons (so we cannot defend ourselves!), gave banks to NATO, gave media to foreigners, destruction (“EU Reforms”) of police, military forces (reduced to a army orchestra!), destruction of education, destruction of health services, utter destruction, which led to massive foreign debt rise in worst period 2008-2012… So, Vucic is’t good, but alternative is neo-ustasha/titoist (as Milo Lompar said “croat interest is to became serbian inrerest, and serbian interest is going to be declared as criminal!”).
So, Vucic inherit tottaly NATO colonized Serbia, with NATO officers sitting in Army HQ; and EU representative present in Parlament! Do you think that he could have say – “Stop with this, now”? No army, no police, no arms, no money, nothing, utter destruction. So he had to mimic EU reformator, he had to sign Bruxselles Agreement, or he woud have been out of office instantly.
Tell me what he could have done, and he did not do, which would be realistic in 2012.?
“He might be a Western man in Serbia but he did not give Kosovo independence yet!”
Then why did Vucic surrender his people over to Pristina?
Why is Vucic taking part in the Brussels negotiations about surrendering his people and Kosmet?
Do you know how deals are mediated in Brussels? I do, Vucic makes a deal with the EU while the EU makes a deal with Kosovo Albanians separately, the text of both agreements are not the same, this means Vucic can interpret the overall deal in his way and liking, and the Albanians can interpret the deal in their way and liking.
If he already surrendered 9 out of his 10 fingers in Brussels, why would the EU stop demanding his remaining fingers if their goal was always his 10 fingers unconditionally? What if Vucic refuses his last finger, will this make matters worse more so than if he was stubborn from the beginning and refused giving his fingers away?
Thanks to Zoran, we now see sources that Steki car uses:
2. https://www.rferl.org/a/vucic-says-deal-with-kosovo-should-guarantee-serbia-s-eventual-eu-membership/29488642.html
3. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-balkans-serbia/serbian-president-says-he-wants-eu-membership-guarantee-as-part-of-kosovo-deal-idUSKCN1LT2EY
4. http://rs.n1info.com/English/NEWS/a509608/Vucic-says-Serbia-can-t-recognize-Kosovo-in-present-circumstances.html
5. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-serbia-kosovo/accept-reality-serbia-does-not-control-kosovo-vucic-idUSKCN1SX1U2
6. https://www.gisreportsonline.com/serbia-prepares-to-change-course-on-kosovo,politics,2415.html
I checked them all. All are either “Free Europe” or Reuters. Those sources are known for their objectivity, especially when Serbia and Serbs are concerned. They all say either of two things: 1) “Vuchch admitted that Kosovo is lost” and 2) Vuchich wants to trade admission of Serbia to EU with deal on Kosovo.
1. https://emerging-europe.com/news/serbian-president-we-have-lost-kosovo/
BEGIN QUOTE
“We need to recognise that we have been defeated. We lost the territory,” Mr Vučić told parliament during a special session dedicated to Kosovo.
“I do not want to continue with lies and deceit. I have told everyone: There is no Serbian authority in Kosovo except in hospitals and schools,” he said.
Kosovo declared independence in 2008, almost a decade after NATO air strikes wrested control of the territory away from Belgrade, ending a brutal counter-insurgency by Serbian security forces.
”
END QUOTE
Have we lost the territory of Kosovo? Yes we have. After NATO bombing, Kosovo was de facto cut off from Serbia. At the moment, nobody can do anything to change that. Can we get it back in some future? Maybe, may be not. In real life, might is right. As long as NATO has more power than Serbia, consider Kosovo gone.
Does it matter how many countries do recognize Kosovo or not? It changes nothing. Kosovo is given to Albanians by US/NATO and that gift is supported by Bondstill.
Should we fight for Kosovo? Of course we should, but how, with what, with whose help? Are Russia and China going to start war with NATO in order to bring Kosovo back to Serbia? Kosovo was lost 20 years ago. Any president or politician can sign or not sign whatever they want, the facts on the ground do not change. If we muster 50,000 soldiers we could think about taking it by force. That would be wishful thinking.
But Kosovo is cradle of culture and spirituality for Serbia. True. It is also true that Kiev is cradle of Russian culture, spirituality and statehood. An Putin is doing nothing about that. Traitor, indeed. How come Putin took Crimea and not Kiev? Because he was powerful enough to take Crimea, yet not enough power to take Kiev. but bad communists were able to keep Kiev and USSR was larger than Romanov’s Russia. Down with Putin, he did not keep Kiev. And he constantly tries to make friends with West. And he allows Erdogan to misbehave in Syria and Libya. Russian people must be stupid, don’t they see what is going on?
I hope this shows how childish accusations by johnny and the gang are. But Johnny and the gang are not children. They are not stupid. So why all of this? There must be something very personal that Vuchich did to them. Otherwise, this whole thing does not make much sense. Vuchich bad. Mislosevic bad.Those between Milosevuc and Vuchic bad. Nobody is good enough for Johnny. Unless Johnny wants to become president of Serbia.
Have we lost territory of Serbia during Ottoman Empire? Yes we had. DId we liberate all of the territories? Yes we have! All of the links I choose to use are from western side. Why? Because you can see what traitor is talking to westerners and what he is talking to serbian population. Everyone can see that his biggest problem is how to recognize Kosovo without getting killed. Your attitude towards “might is right” goes only to traitors attempt to recognize Kosovo as independent state. You can take something from me but you cannot make me to like you. If you want do to something – you find a way, if you do not want do anything – you find an excuse. That is what you are doing, finding excuses.
The Question of Kosovo
Kosovo is not cradle of Serbian statehood. It would be regions of Zeta (Montenegro) and Raska (borders with Kosovo). At some point, Serbian elite moved their courts to Kosovo. They built churches and monasteries. They wrestled other parts of Serbia from Bulgaria and Byzantium states. Serbian dynasty of Nemanjic ruled Kosovo between 1189 til 1389, exactly 300 years. Then entire Serbia was lost to Ottoman empire, including Kosovo. Part of nobility converted to Islam, and many left to Turkey. Less noble Serbs continued to live on Kosovo, under Ottoman occupation, or as a dependent state. Turkish people trickled in, actual Turks and mercenaries who served in Sultan’s armies. Thus we got first Albanians mercenaries in Sultan’s army. I did not read this in history books, rather learned from some Gruzians that a tribe from Gruzia moved en mass to conquered lands. In 1689. remnants of Serbian nobility and church leadership moved out of Kosovo to Austria – then settled along Turkish-Austrian border, become paid soldiers, and many become rich merchants in their new homeland. Apparently, thy were not concerned too much by Serbian spiritual connections to Kosovo.
Kosovo stayed in Turkish hands until 1912, when in 1st Balkan War coalition between Serbs, Bulgarians and Greeks pushed Turks back to Asia. The very next year, allies were at war between themselves. The quarrel was about former Greek Macedonia. Macedonia was partitioned into 3 parts, and Bulgarians felt cheated. At the end, Bulgarians were left with even less Macedonian territory. Kosovo was nominally in Serbian hands, but the WWI started and until 1918 Serbs did not enjoy much in regained cradle of their spirituality and statehood.
In WWI, in 1916 Serbia was occupied by Germans. Entire Serbian army, court with the King and government left Serbia and escaped to Greece. They crossed Kosovo then Albanian mountains, many perished due to deprivations, typhus and starvation. Many were robbed, shot or harassed by local Albanians, both in Kosovo and Albania. Serbs were helped by French and eventually they broke The Salonika Front, swept through Macedonia, Serbia, what is now Croatia and Slovenia and stopped in front of Vienna.
Then the war was over, Serbs went home and Croats and Slovenians decided to join Serbian Kingdom and new country was created – Yugoslavia, a.k.a Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenians. Kosovo was in Serbian hands again. There were pockets of Albanian rebellion, which were swiftly dealt with, during 1919-1920. I know about this operation from my grandfather who as a conscript took part in it. Kosovo was underpopulated, with Serbian majority and significant Albanian minority. The King of Serbia decided to colonize Kosovo – some people from land poor Montenegro were moved to live on Kosovo. Soon, WW2 broke out. Kosovo was taken over by pro-fascist Albanian forces. Montenegrin colonists were swiftly expelled. Some local Serbs left Kosovo too. They never returned. Marshal Tito, who ruled Yugoslavia after WW2 did not allow them to return.
Kosovo was sparsely populated again. At one point, Tito planned to form federation of Yugoslavia, Bulgaria (Georgy Dimitrov) and Albania. In anticipation of the federation, Albanians from Albania were allowed to move in freely. federation never materialized, but Albanians kept coming. Then the tragic part begins. Serbs started selling land and moving to Serbia proper. Kosovo was made almost independent province of Yugoslavia, nominally within Serbia. Tito’s Yugoslavia was composed of 6 republics (Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Serbia, Macedonia plus two almost independent provinces within Serbia – Kosovo and Vojvodina (north of Danube, borders with Hungary, still part of Serbia).
Kosovo was backward, underdeveloped remote hinterland. Serbs started selling land and moving to Serbia proper, for economy reasons. Albanians less so, due to language barrier. They were allowed schooling in Albanian, and most never learned Serbian that was spoken in most of Yugoslavia. Albanians were slowly gaining numbers and became bolder and vocal in requesting status of Republic. Officially, Yugoslav constitution allowed republics to secede. Some Kosovo Albanians wanted to join Albania. As they gained in numbers, they become emboldened and subtle political pressure was applied to Serbs, who in turn sped up migration to Serbia. Later, the pressure was not so subtle, so exodus continued. Communist powers to be, did nothing to prevent that. Again, Serbs were selling land. In later stages, land was sold by prices higher than normal, and that increased exodus of Serbs. It seemed a good business – sell land to Albanians at inflated prices and quietly move to Serbia and start a new life.
Today, Serbs own very little land on Kosovo. Those who sold the land have no intentions moving back – life is better in Serbia than in Kosovo, even without political pressure and terror by Albanians. Serbs in Bosnia owned almost 70% of land at the beginning of wars in 1990es. They have sold some, but still, majority of land in Bosnia is in Serbian possession. Hence – Republika Srpska, almost independent entity in Bosnia. Something like that is simply not possible on Kosovo.
Kosovo will be returned to Serbia when Serbia is in expansion, both economy and military wise, with increasing population hungry for – land. Serbian economy will not be in serious expansion any time soon. Military strength? We can get all the arms and S-300/400 Pantzirs and all. If Serbia cannot field at least 100,000 strong army, forget the territorial expansion. Given response to draft when Serbia was actually attacked, I don’t see much appetite for expansionist war, even to reclaim a territory we consider ours. To claim a territory, you need enough people to populate it and enough power to protect it. None of that exists in Serbia at the moment.
It is not the first time in history that Serbs lost Kosovo, yet the life goes on
It does not matter which politician signs what. Reality is what it is. Yes, Serbia participates in NATO exercises, more than in Russian. So what? What politicians say in public and what is really going on are seldom the same thing. Human nature is to crave power. Who is in power ants o stay in power. Who has no power wants to have it. And those in power will do whatever they can to keep the power. Means to stay in power are not necessary aggressive and violent. Alliances are made and shifted, not because emotions or ethics, rather because pragmatic needs of those in power.
Don’t fool yourself that any ruler acts for benefit of ruled subjects. They act for themselves. Power brings money, and sometimes money brings power, most of the time power and money are intertwined. When power is threatened, they act, mostly violently. Marshal Tito removed all his comrades who were possible threat to his power. Those left alone were not a threat. Stalin did the same. Kings and Sultans in the past did the same.
As for current politics and politicians, it is too early to judge their results and impact on ordinary folks lives. Life under Tito was good for most in former Yugoslavia. Everybody, I repeat, everybody cried when he died. But he did not leave a viable country, and we got what we got. Did he do it in purpose, did he hate Serbs? I don’t think so. He simply give in to Albanians and Croats, he did not want trouble in paradise. Serbs supported him, so there was no need to be extra attentive to their needs – they were obedient. Some of them were threat to his power, so he removed them, some from power, some from life. What we have today was not planned. It just happened as result of behind the scene fight for power.
If you don’t like a politician, go ahead and bring him down. if possible, peacefully, through elections. If you are not patient, do it some other way. You don’t like Vuchic? You don’t believe elections will ever be fair? Why don’t you organize some kind of coup? Or assassination? If he is really hated by everybody except few bots, you will be hailed as liberator. Do something, do not just complain.
Sometimes, the powerful realize that being nice to people keeps you in power, and then people have it better than usually. Example is Marshal Tito in former Socialist Yugoslavia. He found or was lucky to find right measure of strong hand and soft power, used external circumstances in his advantage. One can always find a fault with anybody, especially those in power, but as long as majority is satisfied, all is well for the powerful.
“If you want do to something – you find a way, if you do not want do anything – you find an excuse. ”
That is exactly my point. Do something. What you are doing is trying to stir us up to start a revolution in Serbia. You should change the target audience. The way you guys act and talk does not bring any revolutionary feelings.
If you simply want to make a point, you have succeeded. We perfectly understand what you are saying – the president stole elections, is a thief and corrupted, and wants to surrender Kosovo. We hear you. Your point is valid. Now, what do you want us to do? To write replies praising Johnny? Or to support your fight? To message everybody we know and stroke revolutionary fire?
“what do you want us to do?” – For starter stop watching Pink, N1 and RTS. Then stop reading Bliz, Kurir and dis-Informer. Start listening to Komazec, Radovic and Dragaš about how to set economy in Serbia, Aleksandar Pavić and Branko Pavlović for anything else. Dejan Mirović, Slobodan Antonić and Kosta Čavoški are very good in showing treasonous work of the traitor. After that, you will also know what has to be done.
Johnny knows he can’t become president of Serbia, so maybe Johnny just wants anarchy.
I wonder whose interests would that serve.
I still don’t understand how blind and deaf some people can be to the truth that the SNS-SPS Coalition signed away Serbia’s remaining sovereignty in 2013 when the agreed to the Brussel Agreement, resulting in the removal of Serbian Institutions that were present in the north of Kosovo, be it local police, schooling, judiciary where a citizen could get documents from K. Mitrovica but now needs to go to Centeral Serbia or worse yet Pristina and collect Albanian documents!?!?
Don’t believe me as its well documented if you read the works of Prof. Kosta Cavoski and Prof. Dejan Mirovic. Read what the media in Pristina and Tirana have to say after each meeting and you’ll quickly learn that the spin presented in Serbia’s biased press is far from the truth… Its all there for anybody to see as the government has documented the talks and settlements for those willing to investigate and read with their own eyes!
https://www.srbija.gov.rs/kosovo-metohija/68659
http://www.kim.gov.rs/pregovaracki-proces.php
Step by step the Vucic government has handed over institutions to Pristina in hope’s of obtaining a so-called ZSO or Association of Serbian Municipalities in accordance with the Kosovo Constitution and earlier Ahrtisarri accords that were rightly rejected by Kostunica and Tadic! Those same 4 Serbian majority Municipalities were under full control of Serbia until 2012/2013 and now Vucic claims that Serbia has nothing to gain in Kosovo accept the ZSO which is fully integrated into Kosovo as per Arhtisarri’s wishes???
And then people claim Vucic isn’t a traitor and has defended Kosovo when the website above clearly lists all the institutions that have been signed away to Pristina against the Serbian Constitution!?!? Don’t believe me or Informer as you can read each document yourself or save the effort and checkout Dejan Mirovic’s excellent book covering the disastrous policies of the Democratic governments from 2000 onwards!
My main problem with the argumentation he is using (presuming it follows the reality ‘on the ground’) is that it tends to reduce everything that happens in the social, political, and (even) cultural life of the country, in this case, Serbia (but we can be safe to say it goes for many similar countries, some of which are much larger and important than Serbia) to the machinations of foreign powers.
It’s a grim picture, to imply, that all the socio-economical and political processes in the country are dependent on foreign influence and that we are a kind of a small chessboard which they big players merely use as a playground for their influence. We could argue that this, in essence, is neocolonialism. I often notice that people who oppose Western neocolonialism still subconsciously subscribe to neocolonial worldview, which, in the context of Balkan politics takes an even more sinister form, considering that Balkans have historically been on the periphery of Europe and used as a kind of testing ground for major powers, flexing their muscles in the region against each other and at the expense of the peoples living there.
So, if we indeed want to reduce what’s currently going on in Serbia (protests) only to outside interference (not doubting that the foreign powers play a role in those protests, it would be illusory to claim otherwise) we risk completely ignoring the processes already ongoing in Serbian society and which are a significant factor in the eruption of discontent leading to these protests. Even a Balkan country with limited sovereignty and culture under siege by Western globalism has its internal socio-politic dynamic which influences the political life.
This leads me to my main point of disagreement with people like Zoran: focusing solely on international politics while completely ignoring our own house, a problem with Serbs in general. We as a people love to ‘analyze’ geopolitics and philosophize about the world’s problems but we can’t see to find any practical solutions for the real problems we are facing, and those problems are severe.
In retrospect, it becomes pretty obvious that the protests were a spontaneous outburst of popular discontent caused by the regime’s mismanagement of the COVID-19 epidemic, with the immediate reason being Vucic’s announcement of a lockdown in Belgrade. Yet, the protests had deeper reasons such as high level of corruption (opposition politicians were booed and even assaulted by protesters, demonstrating a total loss of credibility off all politicians, not just the regime), abuses by the ruling party which, instead of being a political party, functions as an employment agency for its members, as well as a company generating profit for the crooks at the top. Then we have a brain drain, which now affecting all echelons of society, people are leaving, and Serbia is losing doctors, nurses, teachers, engineers, and other highly-skilled workers. Serbs feel their very identity is threatened, the decade long crisis has primarily been one of identity and values, to such an extent that today we can speak of Serbian society being traumatized and disoriented.
Let us stop reducing ourselves to puppets in the hands of others, we won’t regain our freedom until we break these spiritual chains.
— Let us stop reducing ourselves to puppets in the hands of others
Well, a good start would be to stop calling an elected president of Serbia “a western puppet”.
That is precisely what he is. If you care to stop and look at the genesis of the SNS party, and who help to create it. Every elected official must be fully accountable for their actions, as he merely is (well should) be the servant of the state. Serbia is a state that is a servant to criminals and has been so for decades. We are merely witnessing a culmination of a long degradation process in Vucic’s criminal regime.
The Question of Kosovo
Kosovo is not cradle of Serbian statehood. It would be regions of Zeta (Montenegro) and Raska (borders with Kosovo). At some point, Serbian elite moved their courts to Kosovo. They built churches and monasteries. They wrestled other parts of Serbia from Bulgaria and Byzantium states. Serbian dynasty of Nemanjic ruled Kosovo between 1189 til 1389, exactly 300 years. Then entire Serbia was lost to Ottoman empire, including Kosovo. Part of nobility converted to Islam, and many left to Turkey. Less noble Serbs continued to live on Kosovo, under Ottoman occupation, or as a dependent state. Turkish people trickled in, actual Turks and mercenaries who served in Sultan’s armies. Thus we got first Albanians mercenaries in Sultan’s army. I did not read this in history books, rather learned from some Gruzians that a tribe from Gruzia moved en mass to conquered lands. In 1689. remnants of Serbian nobility and church leadership moved out of Kosovo to Austria – then settled along Turkish-Austrian border, become paid soldiers, and many become rich merchants in their new homeland. Apparently, thy were not concerned too much by Serbian spiritual connections to Kosovo.
Kosovo stayed in Turkish hands until 1912, when in 1st Balkan War coalition between Serbs, Bulgarians and Greeks pushed Turks back to Asia. The very next year, allies were at war between themselves. The quarrel was about former Greek Macedonia. Macedonia was partitioned into 3 parts, and Bulgarians felt cheated. At the end, Bulgarians were left with even less Macedonian territory. Kosovo was nominally in Serbian hands, but the WWI started and until 1918 Serbs did not enjoy much in regained cradle of their spirituality and statehood.
In WWI, in 1916 Serbia was occupied by Germans. Entire Serbian army, court with the King and government left Serbia and escaped to Greece. They crossed Kosovo then Albanian mountains, many perished due to deprivations, typhus and starvation. Many were robbed, shot or harassed by local Albanians, both in Kosovo and Albania. Serbs were helped by French and eventually they broke The Salonika Front, swept through Macedonia, Serbia, what is now Croatia and Slovenia and stopped in front of Vienna.
Then the war was over, Serbs went home and Croats and Slovenians decided to join Serbian Kingdom and new country was created – Yugoslavia, a.k.a Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenians. Kosovo was in Serbian hands again. There were pockets of Albanian rebellion, which were swiftly dealt with, during 1919-1920. I know about this operation from my grandfather who as a conscript took part in it. Kosovo was underpopulated, with Serbian majority and significant Albanian minority. The King of Serbia decided to colonize Kosovo – some people from land poor Montenegro were moved to live on Kosovo. Soon, WW2 broke out. Kosovo was taken over by pro-fascist Albanian forces. Montenegrin colonists were swiftly expelled. Some local Serbs left Kosovo too. They never returned. Marshal Tito, who ruled Yugoslavia after WW2 did not allow them to return.
Kosovo was sparsely populated again. At one point, Tito planned to form federation of Yugoslavia, Bulgaria (Georgy Dimitrov) and Albania. In anticipation of the federation, Albanians from Albania were allowed to move in freely. federation never materialized, but Albanians kept coming. Then the tragic part begins. Serbs started selling land and moving to Serbia proper. Kosovo was made almost independent province of Yugoslavia, nominally within Serbia. Tito’s Yugoslavia was composed of 6 republics (Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Serbia, Macedonia plus two almost independent provinces within Serbia – Kosovo and Vojvodina (north of Danube, borders with Hungary, still part of Serbia).
Kosovo was backward, underdeveloped remote hinterland. Serbs started selling land and moving to Serbia proper, for economy reasons. Albanians less so, due to language barrier. They were allowed schooling in Albanian, and most never learned Serbian that was spoken in most of Yugoslavia. Albanians were slowly gaining numbers and became bolder and vocal in requesting status of Republic. Officially, Yugoslav constitution allowed republics to secede. Some Kosovo Albanians wanted to join Albania. As they gained in numbers, they become emboldened and subtle political pressure was applied to Serbs, who in turn sped up migration to Serbia. Later, the pressure was not so subtle, so exodus continued. Communist powers to be, did nothing to prevent that. Again, Serbs were selling land. In later stages, land was sold by prices higher than normal, and that increased exodus of Serbs. It seemed a good business – sell land to Albanians at inflated prices and quietly move to Serbia and start a new life.
Today, Serbs own very little land on Kosovo. Those who sold the land have no intentions moving back – life is better in Serbia than in Kosovo, even without political pressure and terror by Albanians. Serbs in Bosnia owned almost 70% of land at the beginning of wars in 1990es. They have sold some, but still, majority of land in Bosnia is in Serbian possession. Hence – Republika Srpska, almost independent entity in Bosnia. Something like that is simply not possible on Kosovo.
Kosovo will be returned to Serbia when Serbia is in expansion, both economy and military wise, with increasing population hungry for – land. Serbian economy will not be in serious expansion any time soon. Military strength? We can get all the arms and S-300/400 Pantzirs and all. If Serbia cannot field at least 100,000 strong army, forget the territorial expansion. Given response to draft when Serbia was actually attacked, I don’t see much appetite for expansionist war, even to reclaim a territory we consider ours. To claim a territory, you need enough people to populate it and enough power to protect it. None of that exists in Serbia at the moment.
It is not the first time in history that Serbs lost Kosovo, yet the life goes on
It does not matter which politician signs what. Reality is what it is. Yes, Serbia participates in NATO exercises, more than in Russian. So what? What politicians say in public and what is really going on are seldom the same thing. Human nature is to crave power. Who is in power ants o stay in power. Who has no power wants to have it. And those in power will do whatever they can to keep the power. Means to stay in power are not necessary aggressive and violent. Alliances are made and shifted, not because emotions or ethics, rather because pragmatic needs of those in power.
Don’t fool yourself that any ruler acts for benefit of ruled subjects. They act for themselves. Power brings money, and sometimes money brings power, most of the time power and money are intertwined. When power is threatened, they act, mostly violently. Marshal Tito removed all his comrades who were possible threat to his power. Those left alone were not a threat. Stalin did the same. Kings and Sultans in the past did the same.
As for current politics and politicians, it is too early to judge their results and impact on ordinary folks lives. Life under Tito was good for most in former Yugoslavia. Everybody, I repeat, everybody cried when he died. But he did not leave a viable country, and we got what we got. Did he do it in purpose, did he hate Serbs? I don’t think so. He simply give in to Albanians and Croats, he did not want trouble in paradise. Serbs supported him, so there was no need to be extra attentive to their needs – they were obedient. Some of them were threat to his power, so he removed them, some from power, some from life. What we have today was not planned. It just happened as result of behind the scene fight for power.
If you don’t like a politician, go ahead and bring him down. if possible, peacefully, through elections. If you are not patient, do it some other way. You don’t like Vuchic? You don’t believe elections will ever be fair? Why don’t you organize some kind of coup? Or assassination? If he is really hated by everybody except few bots, you will be hailed as liberator. Do something, do not just complain.
Sometimes, the powerful realize that being nice to people keeps you in power, and then people have it better than usually. Example is Marshal Tito in former Socialist Yugoslavia. He found or was lucky to find right measure of strong hand and soft power, used external circumstances in his advantage. One can always find a fault with anybody, especially those in power, but as long as majority is satisfied, all is well for the powerful.
You have a very profound knowledge and understanding of history for a zidar, if that’s your real profession. Bravo!
@Zidar
A minor correction the historical facts:
Rule over territories inside modern day Kosovo began under Grand Prince Vukan and his brother around 1090 and Ottoman rule officially begins with the fall of Novo Brdo and Prizren in 1455.
You are correct in asserting that Grand Zupan Nemanja integrated the remaining parts of Kosovo and Metohija in the 12th Century from the Byzantines and his son Stefan had close ties through marriage to the local Albanian chieftain Progon – but at no time did Albanians control Kosovo and Metohija and a majority of its current Albanian population has its roots in the tribes( fis) of Northern Albanian as evident by the surnames, Krasniqi, Thaqi, Berisha, Gashi and through genetics as the E haplogroup is predominate in Kosovo and Northern Albania but that’s a completely different subject.
Migration occurred during medieval times and escalated after 1690 when the then majority of Serbian families exodus towards present day Vojvodina, leaving the areas behing vacant. Similarily when Serbia liberated the Southern areas in 1878, many Albanians from Toplica and Jablanica migrated south into the Vucitrn, Podujevo area of Kosovo (Lab) and the then majority Serbian population and some Montenegrans settled Southern Serbia.
This explains why there currently exist very little nor any major historical monuments nor place names in Albanain culture as they’re a recent arrival to the territory. Even the name Kosovo has no meaning in Albanian and they conveniently replace the name Metohija (Greek for Church dwelling) with Dukagjin that reflects the large medieval Albanian tribe that settled the other side of the Prokletija Mountains.
There are commentators constantly challenging other commentators for evidence that Vucic is going to – or may – recognize Kosovo as an independent state. Vucic came to power in 2012 with open Western endorsement, alongside his then political partner Tomislav Nikolic & implemented the previously negotiated Brussels Agreement/Briselski Sporazum. I do not need to go into particular details of this agreement to “prove” that it sets Serbia i.e. Vucic’s regime to recognize Kosovo, a copy of this agreement is available on line. Suffice to say that the implementation of Briselski Sporazum, which is Vucic’s doing, removed all the remained Serbian state institutions from Kosovo that had been able to battle out a continued existence even after the NATO occupation. The judiciary and police in particular were dismantled – & I do not know what any one sane or remotely cognizant can call this than a surrender of national sovereignty. In return, Serbs in Kosovo were supposed to gain semi-autonomous jurisdiction in the north of Kosovo where a substantial Serbian populace remains – that has not been implemented, the Albanian outfit in Pristina simply refuses. Vucic has agreed to continue negotiating with them regardless, with no demand that they adhere to what was agreed to. I could write an essay, but I don’t see why I should, if deluded people want to believe that Vucic is somehow a defender of Serbian state sovereignty after he has all but relinquished Kosovo – I don’t know what to say. People believe what they want to believe & not what objective fact actually demonstrates. Words may be cheap, but Vucic’s rhetoric concerning Kosovo over the years has been disgusting, he has repeatedly stated that Serbia “has nothing” in Kosovo, the monastaries there & remaining Serbian population clearly meaning nothing. He is a truly revolting traitor of the worst kind, because he has co-opted many in Serbia who declare themselves as “patriots” to defend him & argue he is playing a sophisticated game of buying time – he is doing nothing of the sort. And the bottom line is this, he himself is openly pro-western, wants to join the EU, & the west for its part endorses him. Those who are too blind to see, well…. believe what you want.
@Srbalj – well said as the language used by Vucic and his so called ministers/associates is very contradictory or insulting as your rightly state that until the initial Brussel Agreement Serbia had some semblance of jurisdiction over the North (Leposavic, Zvecan, K. Mitrovica north of Ibar river & Zubin Potok) but the SNS-SPS coalition have spent the last 8 years negotiating away the last vestiges of sovereignty as documented on their own government websites – so no excuse for those lazy to do the research.
To make matters worse, Vucic’s own Serbian List are lauded in the press as hero’s and patriots despite taking part in the illegal elections and joining the Kosovo Parliament where the members happily vote for legislation that is against the interests of the remaining Serb population and in conflict with the Serbian Constitution! In any normal functioning democracy this would be deemed Unconstitutional but sadly in Serbia where one man has influence over all the institutions this gets reported as victories over “terrorists’…?
Then the President feels its important to lecture Serbian politicians in Croatia on patriotism when his own satraps actively pose for pictures with “terrorists’ on their private yacht or sipping Champagne with them in their cabinets but the local media easily spin these examples to suit the governments image as defenders of Kosovo and bringers of prosperity to Serbia and its citizens!!!
so, Saker what you have here among commentaries are:
– leftists, antifa, and such brainwashed drones who falsly present themselves as “serb nationalsts, patriots”, or not. They would gave Kosovo its independence in an instant, and they attack Vucic because they are eager for him to do so,reminding them that he promissed. Of course, he may been lying to the Westerners, he is a skilfull liar. so, 5th column. Reminder – USA declared that it will raise financial support to independent media and others in Serbia. So, prostitutes got paid, and they will now sit here and comment any article about Serbia.
– “patriots”, who believe that Vucic intention is to recognise Kosovo, beyond doubt. So they are ranting against him, expecting a Knight in White to lead Sebs into Kosovo. Naive people. They are not aware of Serbias position in reality.
– few “patriots” which are more cautious in judgemet, knowing how low Serbia fell, and how hard and lengthy process of healing may be. I am considering myself one of these. People are supreficial, they are just not aware of level of destruction to Serbs and Serbia brought by CIA prostitutes from DOS and Otpor.
in conclusion, since I conclude that you are looking for quality, non-leftist idiot-logy rants, I can point some sites and writers:
standard.rs
fakti.rs
all writers at standard.rs are top quality, some were suggested earlier, like MIša Đurković, or I can add Slobodan Antonic, Prorokovic…
Thank you for your article Zoran Petrov, I did not notice it, I was so disheartened by the previous reports. You also have humour, but it is fine, clever sometimes but not mocking about sandwishes. That is funny in right situation.
Please write more about this extraordinary beautiful lands and people, politics, history, everything is interesting, and the bio-dynamic farming too, where is the farm, how big and what grows there.
Note to Beogradjanin… we happen to be Macedonians, not “Macedonians”… maybe try leaving Beograd once in a while and also have a look at something like this if you dare;
http://www.pollitecon.com/html/ebooks/From-Sanskrit-to-Macedonskrit.pdf
I recommend the Glossary where thousands of Macedonian words clearly reveal same origins as Sanskrit,
which proves that we are authentic “domorodnici”, auchtochtonous to Macedonia, and our language and identity is older than the rest of Balkan populations. This is not nationalism, it’s simply what the facts point to. The so-called controversy surrounding the Macedonian identity today can be traced to covetousness of our heritage on behalf of the West, and Macedonian neighbours – who have availed themselves freely over the years and well, why stop now?
And to the individual who mentions a “Greek Macedonia”, there’s no such thing. There’s Greece and there’s Macedonia and the twain shall never meet. The very fact that such a thing as “Greek Macedonia” is being promoted, proves this. Greece today is a multi-ethnic state which in its paranoia, has lost all humanity, a condition which can be understood by the Macedonian saying, “In Greece you’ll find anything but a Greek”.
nope, last I heard you changed your name to North Macedonians, so my quoting of “Macedonians” is correct.
one question – North Macedonians claim that they are of Slavic origin. So, could you explain to me what Slavic tribes, who were present in Helm (Balkans), “Macedonians” originated from? Thank you.
Thank you :-) We zidars can read too:-) When one reads enough of history books written by S. Stanojevic and V. Chorovic, they get some idea how things really work. Just joking. In certain sense I am a zidar. My school was where Nikola Tesla’s monument in Belgrade is. I don’ remember ever commenting on Saker – there was no need, I was learning, a lot. Johnny and the gang pissed me off. Actually, not them. I am sad that Saker was taken for a ride. Even if all they were saying was true, the language and the way they talk is unacceptable to my standards. they cry over Kosovo, and I doubt that any of them has ever been to Kosovo. They might know somebody from Kosovo – there are so many people from Kosovo in Serbia – but none from Kosovo speaks and behaves the way Johnny and the gang do. I understood now that Johnny and the gang are young people, for some reason smitten by already trashed ideology. They are happy to get attention here, it seems nobody pays any attention to them in Serbia any ways. People are busy with their daily lives. Perhaps the best thing to do would be to simply ignore them, they are bound to get tired at some point.
Cheers