It is often forgotten that what happened to Russia with the French Mistrals is very much a case of bad Karma coming back: just as Russia had already paid France for the Mistrals, so had Iran already paid Russia for the S-300 SAMs. Both Russia and France reneged after the contracts were signed and finalized. And just as France’s reputation will suffer from the Mistral fiasco, the Russian reputation will suffer from the S-300 fiasco. There might be those who will say that Russia was only following UNSC Resolutions, but to them I will reply that Russia made a huge mistake by allowing such Resolutions to be adopted and, furthermore, that the UNSC Resolution did not cover systems such as the S-300. The decision to renege on the Iranian contract was a unilateral Russian decision.
Everybody in the Kremlin is aware of that and this is why Lavrov and his counterpart Mohammad Javad Zarif are likely to discuss this issue during their meeting today. I sure hope that they finally come to an agreement.
First, Russia needs to remove that shameful stain on her reputation as a reliable partner. There is no way the Iranians are going to forget what Russia did and nor should they. True, this was a Medvedev decision, and the Iranians understand that, but still – the Kremlin needs to prove that times have changed and, even more so, that Russia has changed.
Second, with all the threats coming out of Congress, Iran critically needs the Russian SAMs. Sure, the Iranians claim that they have developed a similar system (with Russian aid according to rumours), but the Iranian systems are untested and it is unclear how many of those they can produce. Iran is a very big country with a lot of potentially lucrative targets for the USAF and USN to strike in saturation attacks. Thus the quantity of high-end with overlapping engagement ranges is crucial to deter such an AngloZionist attack.
Third, now is the time for Russia to engage in some good PR and presenting a more trustworthy face to Iran. The lifting of sanctions on Iran presents fantastic business opportunities for Russian companies which all will need to have this unpalatable and, frankly, embarrassing episode be put into the past.
Finally, I will note that the S-300 are getting old and that both the US and Israel have gotten their hands on these systems which have no more secrets for them. Russia should either sell Iran upgraded S-300s or jump the gap and sell them the new S-400s. Not only would that make military sense, but it would be a very welcome gesture of apology from Russia to Iran – a tangible sign that a new era of cooperation as begun.
The Saker
UPDATE: good news – this from PressTV:
Iranian Defense Minister Brigadier General Hossein Dehqan says the Islamic Republic is set to receive upgraded batteries of the S-300 missile defense system from Russia, saying the delivery will take place soon.
“All changes [that have been made] by the Russians over these years will be implemented on the S-300 system that is going to be delivered to Iran and we will receive the system soon,” Dehqan said in a briefing with reporters in Tehran on Tuesday.
The Iranian defense minister would not specify the exact time of the delivery, but said that a delegation of Iranian officials are set to travel to the Russian capital, Moscow, next week to sign a contract on the issue.
Vladimir Kozhin, Russian President Vladimir Putin’s aide on military and technical cooperation, said on July 30 that the Russian-built S-300 air defense system is to be modernized before being delivered to Iran, given the fact the original contract was struck a long time ago.
On April 13, Putin signed a presidential decree paving the way for the long-overdue delivery of the missile defense system to Iran.
The decision to deliver the missile system came after Iran and the P5+1 group of countries – the United States, France, Britain, China and Russia plus Germany – reached a mutual understanding on Tehran’s nuclear program in the Swiss city of Lausanne on April 2.
Moscow had banned the delivery of the S-300 system to Tehran in 2010 under the pretext that the agreement it signed with Iran in 2007 was covered by the fourth round of the UN Security Council sanctions against the country over its nuclear program. The resolution bars hi-tech weapons sales to the Islamic Republic.
Talks for Russian jets
Elsewhere in his remarks, Dehqan said Tehran is in talks with Moscow to buy new Russian fighter jets and ruled out reports on Iran’s potential purchase of military aircraft from France.
“In the field of fighter jets, we declared our requirements to the Russians and we have made no request in this field to France,” Dehqan said, adding that it is very “unlikely” for Iran to engage in military cooperation with France in the current situation.
Touching on Iran’s possible missile tests, the defense minister said that the Iranian military has already focused on boosting the accuracy of domestically-manufactured missiles.
Dehqan dismissed accusations that Iran had worked on missiles capable of delivering nuclear warheads. He said Iran’s missile program is solely defensive.
“We have never taken any measures aimed at using a nuclear weapon and no missile has been designed or produced in this regard,” he said, adding, “We have never examined nor implemented the technical details of nuclear warheads for our missiles.”
Yes, I have often wondered why Russia and China did not veto the totally unjust UNSC anti-iran sanctions in the first place. While the USA is bossing around practically every other country, seems to me both Russia and China are simply too limited to minding their own business, and I think that has to change if they want a multi-polar world; but I think they are going in the right direction, or at least I hope so.
The reason you don’t understand why Russia & China didn’t veto these the sanctions on Iran is because Russia & China are playing chess while the Americans are playing checkers. ;-)
I would be perfectly happy if what you said is true. However, all the bad things being brought down on the people of Donbass, the Palestinians, the Syrians, the Iraqis, the Libyans, the Iranians etc etc over the past 2 decades would seem to suggest that the crazy “Exceptionalists” are getting their way, via chess or checkers, I dont really care!
well, Russia was always trying to have NATO ‘like them’ up until very recently. Screwing Iran to get points was something Russia was capable of. In a way, this terrible blight on the planet of the USA and the neo-cons, is bringing out the best in all the good guys….
Ann said:
In a way, this terrible blight on the planet of the USA and the neo-cons, is bringing out the best in all the good guys….
Apologies Ann, but could you expand on this – I don’t really understand what you are talking about.
Thanks.
Russia was playing nice with the evil empire because it had good business with Europe. The NeoCons Ukraine coup ended all of that. Russia is moving to counter the hostile intentions of the US empire now. At least the world hopes it is.
No, Julian, you are gravely mistaken.
The Americans are playing chess, while the Russians are playing petanca (pétanque) – throwing the ball randomly, without foresight, merely hoping that it lands close enough to the target.
Saker, I agree 100% with you on this!
I remember somewhere around 2006.-2007. I had picture of Putin and Ahmadinejad on my desktop in Copenhagen. I used to shock my Scandinavian friends with that – whenever they came to visit me, they had to see that picture. Such was my trust in Russian-Iranian allience. Nobody understood me because I am a Serb and they thought that we hate Muslims….
Defending Iran is the key of defending Eurasia. Iran simply must be protected by Russia from our Zionist overlords!
I think that virtually everything is at stake for Putin here.
If he allows Iran to be attacked, he will go down in history as the biggest cheat ever.
If he successfully defends Iran, he will become the first person ever to win over Jewish supremacists in such a crucial battle.
Russia must show its strengt now. It is now or never!
Sell S-400 to Iranians. Stop Israel.
…and give S-400 to Novorossia militias…
Putin playing chess and therefor letting die Russian people some 30km from Russian border in Usraine. Either the geopolitics allows him not to play some ace card in favor of Donbass, or he is incapable/unwilling to do it. The same multiplied by 10x in regards of Kremlin´s relations to Teheran.
The polite green men of Crimea should have move on to Kiev and overthrow the fascist junta a year ago. What would the USA do? Implement sanctions, as anyway today?
Now if Moscow sells S-400 to Teheran than the US sell whatever to Kiev and what would Russia do?! Lavrov can make a bad stone face on a press conference when expressing his utmost disappointment….
Ultimately the war is for minds and Russia is winning that one in Europe. The Germans and the French do not see Russia as aggressive despite their media telling them otherwise on a daily basis. Everyone understands that the US agenda is to keep Russia separated from Europe so that it can remain the global hegemon to the detriment of both Russia and Europe. If Russia took Kiev, NATO would finally be able to justify it’s own existence and the US would gain more power over Europe.
“The Germans and French do not see Russia as agressive”
Are you speaking of their citizens? If so, what do their opinions matter? Do you believe the governments are any more responsive to public opinion than the Empire is to their own? Although I agree that the hegemon’s agenda is easily seen, I believe you give much too much credit to the Euro citizenries awareness. Possibly they are slightly more so than the citizens of pindostan; but I would say not much more. The Germans and French will always be the Germans and French. Know your History!
There are recent Pew related polls that back up Robert’s assertion….that over 50%+ of French and German populations do not see Russia as an Aggressor.
As time goes by and seeing how neurotic Kiev junta has become….that percentage is likely to grow!
“Putin playing chess and therefor letting die Russian people some 30km from Russian border in Usraine. Either the geopolitics allows him not to play some ace card in favor of Donbass, or he is incapable/unwilling to do it. The same multiplied by 10x in regards of Kremlin´s relations to Teheran.”
“the master”
Perhaps your designator is a form of self-delusion and your reliance on binary logic a form of self-inflicted blindness?
Are Russian and Iran really friends? The old Russian Empire conquered the a great deal of territory from Iran, later in the times of the Shah, Iran was in a constant low level conflict with the USSR, even the Islamic Republic times, the Soviet Union supported Saddam Hussien in the Iran-Iraq war.
It makes a great deal of sense that Russia and Iran have good relations, but there seems to be little historical evidence of them being friends.
Honest question what I am missing? If I was Iran, I might trust Russia because Putin is an honest broker they can deal with, compared to Obama and the US senate. Historically though, Iran probably holds more grudges against the Russians than the do the USA.
Mr Saker,
Lovely short missive. Totally agreed.
Russia must prove its Moral superiority. In that lies its salvation.
Love and solidarity. Solzhenitsyn, Tolstoy, Zhukov, and so many others.
Conciliation with Zionism opens the door to Purgatory, and Purgatory is the entrance to…
Russia must bring – before the United Nations – complaints of the high murder rate by American police against young African Americans, (including the case of the Mother who was murdered, in a hail of gunfire, while standing, unarmed, next to her child, directly in front of the White House). In the latter case, the Zionist American Congress gave the murdering police officers a Standing Ovation.
Russia must also bring charges against all the imperialist murderers. The High Road leads to the VISION, which is the only Road that leads to victory. Relics of totalitarian rule, such as the Chinese and North Korean governments must be discarded in favor of Democratic Republics! The leaders of the Chinese Government are not the embodiment of imperialist evil, as are the Zionist American leaders; however, the Chinese leaders and their people are carrying a lot of old totalitarian baggage that they need to jettison.
All Power to the People!
For the Democratic Republics!
IMAGINE
The WW2 was not won because of moral superiority, but because of hard military power.
Russia could not even bring the aggression against poor Yemen and the bombing of Yemeni vital infrastructure (causing a humanitarian disaster) before the United Nations Security Council—so much for the “moral superiority”.
Russia insouciantly lets all the morally superior ones be killed by the morally depraved ones.
I am not so sure the fifth column in Russia is ready to make the total break with the west yet.That might explain the delay.Myself I would have sold them a long time ago as soon as the Ukrainian civil war started.
Re: Iran and S-400 …yes, deliver updated systems and give them a discount in price as compensation for the delay. That makes it clear it is about honor not just money.
In addition to the Saker’s update on the article
http://www.rt.com/news/312804-russia-iran-s300-delivery/
RT now has as “breaking news” that Russia and Iran have reached the agreement now on delivery on S300 system.
Russia and China both want no more nuclear proliferation. The sanctions brought about a solution that Iran otherwise was not going to agree to.
Russia should deliver S300 upgrades (which I read is the intention) and soon after, assured that Iran is not going West with oil and gas and other relationships, then ship/sell to them S400s.
Assuming Iran is some “without sin” nation is weak. Russia did what is best for Russia.
When Iran is firmly in the Eurasia group, within SCO, and working to follow alongside Russia and China against all the hegemonic institutions of the West, then I’d feel comfortable with Tehran.
So far, Iran has benefitted by the wisdom of Russia and China. I don’t see a lot coming the other way, as yet.
Sanctions worked. They are a bad devise in most cases, but the world does not need more nuclear weapons on missiles in more places. Keeping Iran and SA and the other loons of the Arab world from getting them is imperative.
Russia and China (along with South Korea) are working to get North Korea to back away from its nuclear arsenal. So, the theme is the same. It’s not an anti-Iran policy.
The time frame was fairly quick for the UNSC sanctions. It looks like it worked with Iran.
Also, Russian foreign policy involves actions that reward or punish other nations, and sometimes those other policies collide. Iran did not need the S300s during the sanctions. The US was restrained by the sanctions also. They were obsessed with Libya and Syria.
Now is when Iran needs protection. The US will want to test and test Iran’s compliance and to see if it can bend with investment and business development Iran to its will and policies. Sovereignty needs military defenses. Russia will see to it that Iran gets what it now needs.
I agree with what you said except for the implied assumption that Iran actually wanted nuclear weapons…. That is an incorrect assumption. If they had wanted that they should have done what Israel, India, Pakistan, North Korea did – don’t join the NPT. Of course, the previous Iranian leader Ahmadinajad did all he could to make Iran looks much worse that it is by making totally uncalled for statements and stupid proclamations frequently (no doubt greatly twisted as well as using out of context, helped by the “trusted” MSM of the West).
19,000 centrifuges spinning tons of high grade fissionable material and a heavy water reactor tell me otherwise.
Bringing sanctions down on your head for a bluff is irrational. And that is what the “line” asks me to believe. “Iran did not want nukes.” Nonsense. The technology tells me otherwise.
They wanted nukes. They realized sometime along the process that it was going to be impossible.
Russia saved them. China saved them.
Sometimes a good friend does a tough thing, like a slap in your face to snap you back to your senses.
Iran will be just fine with a future without nukes.
And Israel is being shamed into giving the world a close look at their nuclear arsenal.
Some good signs in difficult times.
If Iran gets to working alongside Russia and China, the world will be heading in the right direction.
That is an interpretation that I think very few Iranians would agree with. The nuclear program was a matter of pride and useful for negotiations. Unfortunately, Russia and China wanted a weak Iran to take advantage of, and this suited the West. So now Iran is going to try to become friends with the West, but certainly do business with China and Russia. There was no friendly slap in the face, at least in the view of Iranians. Actually, one of the reasons for the new turn to the West by Iran is that Russia has shown so little friendship, with the S300s being the most important example. If you are bothered with France’s behavior over the Mistral, it is ten times worse what Russia did. The Mistrals were just a political payoff to Sarkozy and weren’t needed. Iran has needed the S300s.
And it is likely that the world is not going in the right direction due to Russia’s unprincipled decision. Now Iran is going to turn to the West to some degree.
The problem with that is Israel.The Israelis won’t allow the West to become friends with Iran.They fear Iran way to much for that (when I say the West.I really mean the US and the most pro-Israeli Europeans).A “few” business deals sure,but a whole realignment to Iran is out of the question.Already you see the Israelis bringing their influence to bear in the US against the deal.And with that they’ve just started.The “campaign season” has just begun in the US.That means the parties and candidates are going to want as much money as they can get.And they’ll be seeing which one can declare they are “Israel’s best friend”,over the “other guy”.Iran needs to face the facts.Unless they tomorrow all convert to Christianity,or even better Judaism,there is no major realignment going to happen with the West.Whether they like it or not.The only friends they have at all or Russia and China (even if they act two-faced sometimes).
You are looking at the low level. Israel was created by the City of London crowd. It depends upon the West for just about everything. For example, if the aid were cut off for even six months, the economy would crash to the point that a large percentage of their skilled workers would leave. If they don’t already have second passports, they could get residence in the West easily.
Besides, the game the West is playing is to gradually gain control of Iran. Israel is still just a piece on the chessboard owned by the financial oligarchy, which is largely Jewish of course, but so what? In this struggle for world power, controlling Russia and China come first. You can smash Syria more in five or ten years if you need to.
Paul II,
You say “Israel was created by the City of London crowd. It depends upon the West for just about everything.” I agree. Everyone seems to think that Israel runs the US, but I don’t think so. I think they’re just part of the same power bloc and Israel is delegated to carry out the more brutally outrageous acts– even like bringing US lawmakers into the fold w bribes & bullying. Lots of things are more easily done without accountability if done by an “outside power” like Israel.
Paul II on August 18, 2015 · at 7:20 am UTC said:
“You are looking at the low level. Israel was created by the City of London crowd. It depends upon the West for just about everything. For example, if the aid were cut off for even six months, the economy would crash to the point that a large percentage of their skilled workers would leave.”
You are correct: http://www.timesofisrael.com/why-do-israels-apartment-prices-keep-going-up/
“A half million to a million Israelis live well,” Daniel Doron, head of the Israeli Center for Social and Economic Progress, told The Times of Israel. “The rest are struggling for survival.”
As a PS to my post, here is the type of thing I was talking about.
On one of the US republican candidates:
“Huckabee heading to Israel to raise money, discuss Iran deal”
“The former Arkansas governor opposes the agreement, like nearly all his fellow Republicans.”
“Huckabee says the accord, announced in July by the United States, Iran and five other nations, would essentially arm a terrorist state. “The Iranian government is not to be trusted,” Huckabee said, announcing his trip Sunday on CNN’s “State of the Union.”
“Blasting the Iran deal and affirming a kinship with Israel is a staple for nearly all the 17 declared Republican presidential candidates, but U.S.-Israeli ties are a particularly important component of Huckabee’s appeal to religious conservatives in the Republican base.”
“Many American evangelicals view the nation of Israel as the modern iteration of the Old Testament Israelites designated as the chosen people of the Judeo-Christian God. Huckabee, an ordained Southern Baptist minister, noted Sunday on CNN that he’s traveled to Israel “dozens and dozens of times” since his first trip in 1973.”
http://news.yahoo.com/huckabee-heading-israel-raise-money-discuss-iran-deal-171211048.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory&soc_trk=fb
Uncle Bob,
You know, it’s all over the news that there are two secret agreements w Iran that not even the Congress is allowed to know about? Media says the agreements have to do w IAEA monitoring, if you believe that.
That’s why Thierry Meyssan’s allegation of a totally different sort of agreement between US & Iran is so intriguing. All this business about Israel objecting to the Iranian deal may have nothing to do w the nuke deal– what’s to object to in that? Maybe the Israelis are really objecting to the agreement Meyssan is reporting?
That’s all I’ve got: just a big fat maybe. Just have to wait & see. I wish someone wd take a look at the two Meyssan articles I posted above & give us a guess.
Penelope on August 18, 2015 · at 4:35 pm UTC said:
“I wish someone wd take a look at the two Meyssan articles I posted above & give us a guess.”
Penelope, maybe i’ve gone blind – but I can’t see those links…can you please post them again in reply to this or copy the url of the post you refer to (by right clicking the date/time after the post and selecting “copy the link address”)
No worries – found it:
/will-russia-finally-agree-to-deliver-s-300s-400-to-iran/comment-page-1/#comment-134317
Uncle Bob,
It is not just the likes of the defective Huckabee who is firmly supportive of the Zionists. A large number of the hegemons members of congress, on both sides of the isle (Repuglicans and Demorats) spend a great deal of their time being courted by them; along with accepting bribes from them for their undying support. 22 Democratic and 36 republican members of congress spent a full week of their August recess in Israel rather than among the constituents they were elected (sic) to serve. The junkets were sponsored by neo-con groups and other war-mongers. Instead of being home listening to the needs of citizens they are supposedly representing, they are serving the Zionists and their need for the Empires involvement in another disastrous war on Iran. These trips are not innocent tourist junkets. They are far less savory types, taken as guests of businesses (MIC) or agencies (AIPAC) seeking favors or patronage.More galling is the fact that the taxpayers ultimately foot the bill. Restrictions on such trips are circumvented by 501(c)(3) tax exempts like the American Israel education Foundation (AIEF). Since AIEF is tax-exempt and contributions to it are tax-deductible, the taxpayers are essentially paying twice for this blatantly unconstitutional act. Taxpayers underwriting the cost of a foreign government agressively intervening in the creation and execution of american foreign and domestic policy. Who’s the client state of whom? Who’s paying attention?
This is complete nonsense. Iran never enriched Uranium above 20 percent for its medical isotope reactor. Quit reading and believing in NeoCon bs. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
“And Israel is being shamed into giving the world a close look at their nuclear arsenal.”
The Zionists are incapable of feeling shame. The few Israelis who are capable have liitle or no clout with the Zionist Crime Cabal. If you truly believe what you state above, you must surely believe in Unicorns, no? Over BiBi’s dead body, Larchmonter 445.
That’s nonsense, mate.
China did not save Iran. Russia even harmed Iran.
But Iran would be even better with nukes.
Not only for itself, but also for Russia (and oil and gas).
Iran wanted nukes because Israel had regularly threatened to attack Iran and because the Iranians had seen what happened to Iraq (followed by Libya…).
Russia ought to have supported Iran and create a little mess in the Persian Gulf. In other words play the game like the U.S.A. does it. And then sit back comfortably and watch the price of oil and gas skyrocket.
The Iranians may have realized that it might not be the most appropriate time to prioritize the nukes. But it must be their long-term goal anyway, at least as long as Israel has them and as long as Saudi Arabia remains aggressive and supported by the United States of Aggression.
Actually, it is quite stupid of the Russians to be so obsessed with nuclear non-proliferation, when the United States of Aggression routinely violates the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons with its “nuclear sharing”.
Also, the agreement on the easing of the sanctions was reached only because of the mess in the Middle East that the West had created.
Israel would not care at all about “being shamed into giving the world a close look at their nuclear arsenal”—I am amazed at your cluelessness!
Israel has nuclear weapons in roughly the same manner as India or Pakistan . Actually, even less overtly. So, at worst, Israel could simply come out about them.
And Israel was “not shamed by the world” (or the “shaming” did not have any observable effect, perhaps except for one Scandinavian country recognizing the State of Palestine) for the Israeli 7-week-long bombing of the Gaza Strip, which killed over 2000 Palestinians—the lack of adequate response was shameful—so how can you possibly assume that Israel could be somehow “shamed” into whatever? The State of Israel has practically a lifelong history of flaunting international law, so how on earth can you believe that it could be “shamed” for something that has been an open secret for about 30 years?
Do you think that India would be “shamed” for being a nuclear power? Hell, no! It is a source of national pride everywhere.
And, mind you, neither Russia nor China saved Iraq or Libya from aggression by the West.
In fact, the world has evidently became a worse place because of that.
So—how can you claim otherwise?
Removed excessive exclamation points, which gives an impression of screaming. /moderation-policy/
The genie is out of the bottle and will never be put back in. Someday it will be used.
Iran seems to be relatively stable and not prone to reckless acts.
Even with all the rhetoric North Korea has not been threatened with invasion in recent years.
For a small country, nukes seem to be a good deterrent to invasion by the hedgemon.
If they were ever to use them offensively they know they countries would be wiped out.
Why shpuld Iran orcother nations not have nuke with missile enough to reach usa?
That is the only protection of their sovereignity.
Indeed, Russia and China want no more nuclear proliferation.
The sanctions harmed Iran, Russia and China much more than their adversaries.
Iran is not “without sin”, but Russia did the stupidest thing for Russia. Russia betrayed Russia’s partner for some empty points from Russia’s adversaries.
And in time—as ample evidence has shown us since—this even backfired on Russia and worsened Russia’s isolation.
Iran will hardly be firmly in the SCO group after a treachery like this. Russia’s move was a kick, not a hug.
Sanctions did not work. The situation in the Middle East did.
Anyway, your assumptions are completely nuts. Neither these, nor any other sanctions will ever keep Saudi Arabia or other Sunni bastards from getting an atomic bomb; Saudi Arabia is quite open about buying the bomb from Pakistan, yet there are no sanctions in sight against Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, despite the former outrageously bombing poor Yemen for half a year with no end in sight…
The North Koreans would be stupid to give up their nuclear weapons, having seen what had happened to Iraq or Libya. It is now even part of their official policy. (Even though the Russians and the Chinese might to be corrupt and stupid enough to be tempted to pressure the North Koreans to do so.)
Also, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea may legally have nuclear weapons, unlike Iran, because the DPRK is no longer a party to the NPT, while Iran still is.
And if international law were worth more than a spit in the face of the abiders, Iran could easily (and peacefully!) withdraw from the NPT.
Unfortunately, we have witnessed outrageous and patently illegal threats to Iran, completely incompatible with the Charter of the United Nations (in fact, grossly violating its article 2).
The United States of Aggression did not consider itself restrained by such sanctions in the case of Bosnia and Herzegovina (and neither did France during the bombing of Libya).
The United States of Aggression claimed that such sanctions were “immoral”, as they “violated the right to self-defense”.
Now, what else were the sanctions against Iran, if not a similar case of violating Iran’s right to self-defence?!
And why Russia should not have delivered defensive weapons to Iran, amid general security tensions in the region and even overt threats of bombing, which these weapons would have alleviated?
Why Iran—as you suggest—did not need these defensive weapons (or had a lesser need for them) then… and why should Iran “need them now” (or have a grater need for them) that the tension have abated, threats have largely disappeared, while mutual trade seems to be taking their place??!
Indeed, Russia and China want no more nuclear proliferation.
But this position of theirs is stupid.
The sanctions harmed Iran, Russia and China much more than their adversaries.
Iran is not “without sin”, but Russia did the stupidest thing for Russia. Russia betrayed Russia’s partner for some empty points from Russia’s adversaries.
And in time—as ample evidence has shown us since—this even backfired on Russia and worsened Russia’s isolation.
Iran will hardly be firmly in the SCO group after a treachery like this. Russia’s move was a kick, not a hug.
Sanctions did not work. The situation in the Middle East did.
Anyway, your assumptions are completely deranged. Neither these, nor any other sanctions will ever keep Saudi Arabia or other Sunni bastards from getting an atomic bomb; Saudi Arabia is quite open about buying the bomb from Pakistan, yet there are no sanctions in sight against Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, despite the former outrageously bombing poor Yemen for half a year with no end in sight…
The North Koreans would be stupid to give up their nuclear weapons, having seen what had happened to Iraq or Libya. It is now even part of their official policy. (Even though the Russians and the Chinese might to be corrupt and stupid enough to be tempted to pressure the North Koreans to do so.)
Also, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea may legally have nuclear weapons, unlike Iran, because the DPRK is no longer a party to the NPT, while Iran still is.
And if international law were worth more than a spit in the face of the abiders, Iran could easily (and peacefully!) withdraw from the NPT.
Unfortunately, we have witnessed outrageous and patently illegal threats to Iran, completely incompatible with the Charter of the United Nations (in fact, grossly violating its article 2).
The United States of Aggression did not consider itself restrained by such sanctions in the case of Bosnia and Herzegovina (and neither did France during the bombing of Libya).
The United States of Aggression claimed that such sanctions were “immoral”, as they “violated the right to self-defense”.
Now, what else were the sanctions against Iran, if not a similar case of violating Iran’s right to self-defence?!
And why Russia should not have delivered defensive weapons to Iran, amid general security tensions in the region and even overt threats of bombing, which these weapons would have alleviated?
Why Iran—as you suggest—did not need these defensive weapons (or had a lesser need for them) then… and why should Iran “need them now” (or have a grater need for them) that the tension have abated, threats have largely disappeared, while mutual trade seems to be taking their place??!
In short, you wrote logically incoherent nonsense.
Keep a polite tone in discussions. /Mod
Thanks, Mod, I had realized it myself, which is why I rewrote it.
@alan on August 17, 2015 · at 6:03 pm UTC
Yes, it is very easy to judge that Russia and China did NOT veto the unjust of the UNSC Iranian anti sanctions.
In a plain language both of the countries at that time were still in a very vulnerable stage and they don’t needed to get the earthquake made by the HARP as it was done in Japan or some bomb attacks from inside the country. Look at the China disaster recent explosion. Do you think that the Chinese will make this disaster fro themselves? Just for fun?????????
Unfortunately people these days will do anything for the money and this last disaster in China it looks like it was orchestrated from outside.
Just follow the line, almost every single country is on the edge Thailand, Indonesia, Brasilia; France; Syria; Iraq; Turkey ; African immigrants in thousands are flooding Europe daily even they have no place to accommodate them are just name a few. We are in the final stage of this world fight against the Empire and the name “Chaos” is the most important for the psychopaths before they will loose everything and they will be taken to adopt the responsibility for all of these horrors what they have created around the world.
Saker, with all due respect, are you sure of your facts here? It was my impression that the sanctions regime against Iran and subsequent negotiations involving prominent nations including the Russian Federation, explicitly delineated clauses constituting a general arms embargo regarding sales or transfers of weapons of any sort or variety to the state of Iran. If you will look into this I believe you will find that not only do the aforesaid embargoes apply to the parties to the recent negotiations (and hence to the Russian Federation, France, EU, US, etc) but that the embargoes remain in effect for a period of time which has not nearly elapsed as of this writing.
If I am mistaken it won’t be for the first time by any means. But if my ideas above are essentially accurate, then your words above may have the unfortunate effect of damning the Russian Federation in the eyes of her supporters and supporters of Iran who long to see her as safe as possible from aerial attack.
Allowing such inaccurate ideas to gain currency would undoubtedly be interpreted as slanderous in some circles, and rightly so, if arms embargoes have been agreed on as above.
No, you are wrong and Saker is right in this case. The UNSC resolution – itself a totally unjustified act of economic warfare – did NOT bar defensive weapons, which the S-300s are.
Saker the last I read on this subject somewhere and I’ll try and find tomorrow that the wording in the contract was being changed for the sale of updated S-300 and one other newer system doesn’t have the range but works very well. I’m sure we’ll find out shorty after the meeting.
I’m never impressed when people tell me what they’re gonna do.
I can be in total awe when things are done though…
Right on. The denial of S-300s was a terrible mistake by Russia, almost as bad as allowing the US and Nato to overthrow Libya via ginned up UNSC resolution. Russia needs to make good on this and both Russia and Iran need to get real about defending Assad. Endless talk about how much Russia hearts its “partners”, as it insists on calling the maniacs who run war policy for Nato and its most wicked allies, is like a dance on Assad’s eventual tomb.
Yes,the decision needs to be made by both Russia and China if they stand for a multi-polar World or not.The signals are too mixed now.A good case could be made that they only want an “upgraded” place for themselves in the current NWO.And if that is true it would be foolish for any other countries to support them.Only a clear voice can be heard.And will gain them the support they need,”if” they really do want change that benefits all nations.To me the fates of Ukraine and Syria will “tell the tale”.If they end up allowing the fascists to win in Ukraine.And allowing Syria to fall.Then they don’t deserve any support.They just want a “bigger chair at the table”.If they defeat fascism in Ukraine.And support Syria to win that war.They will have shown the World there is “light at the end of the tunnel”,we will see which it is .
When the Russians mean business, they deploy their navy. They did it during the U.S. Civil War, and they did it already to save Syria from attack. That’s why Cameron reversed course in Parliament. If there is a showdown over the port at Odessa, then we can all get ready to duck-and-cover. Under our school desks. Yeah, that will really work. Lol.
Good point, Uncle Bob.
Bob,
The reason why so many believe that both Russia and China are in on the NWO is exactly that. Too often, it has seemed that they just wanted a better chair at the table or a bigger helping of food.
Why should Iran trust Russia or China? They support sanctions that crush them and force them to make bad deals out of desperation. And, when the S300s were needed, they couldn’t be found. That is not the act of an ally, let alone a friend.
Unprincipled pragmatism can lead to the situation where your only friends are your navy and army.
I agree russia treated Iran (A Ally) Like shit it pissed me of how the Russians treated the Iranians it’s been a Decade give them the weapons they need to Defend themselves from the West and the Zionist state of Israel!
Uncle Bob 1 on August 18, 2015 · at 12:09 am UTC said:
“Yes,the decision needs to be made by both Russia and China if they stand for a multi-polar World or not.”
Uncle Bob, i’m now really confused why you continue to advocate on behalf of a multi-polar World as being a reasonable objective (if not exactly Nirvana).
As before – what improvement can the “general humanity” expect whether it is controlled by a single group of psycopathic oligarchs (presumably Capitalist) compared to a small number of competing psychopathic oligarchs (presumably Capitalist – although it seems the Communist version of the USSR was also very unattractive)?
Presumably if there was a single world hegemony that single group of psychopathic oligarchs would no longer have reason to maintain a massive MIC: world war would become a thing of the past and they could amuse themselves with a version of “The Hunger Games”? In other words – no better or worse than where we already are.
So, can you please make clear what benefit you expect to accrue in the multi-polar world that you envisage?
The enslavement of the World to one Empire is not a good thing.Maybe if it was the “Roman Empire” that gave citizenship to all its subjects making them all one people under law.But the “exceptional” Empire and its stooges won’t do that.They want the World to loot it for keeping power in their homeland.While things might not as I said before be Nirvana with a multi-polar World.It allows nations to save themselves from being destroyed by a hegemon.And inside those nations it is easier to change systems if need be,than to do that in one huge hegemonic Empire.This is an old question dating back to ancient times.The US is only the latest (and worst) to try and rule the World.No Empire has succeeded.The World and its peoples are too diverse for one Empire to rule them.There will always be nations that won’t allow themselves to be dominated by others.Rome had its Parthia and China as opposites,Napoleon had Britain and Russia to oppose him,etc,etc.What could be done is a real “United Nations” organization be created to stop wars and abuse.But that won’t happen now.The US opposes anything like that they can’t dominate.So we are left with a multi-polar World to save us from hegemonic domination.
Uncle Bob 1 on August 18, 2015 · at 8:43 pm UTC said:
The enslavement of the World to one Empire is not a good thing.Maybe if it was the “Roman Empire” that gave citizenship to all its subjects making them all one people under law.But the “exceptional” Empire and its stooges won’t do that.
Sorry Bob, your response makes no further particular sense to me.
Why might the enslavement of the “general humanity” of the World to 2 (or 3) Empires be any worse than enslavement to one?
Do you, for example, think the members of the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union considered themselves any less “exceptional” than those you refer to above?
But more than this /what-you-need-to-know-about-the-russias-airspace-defense-system-concept/comment-page-1/#comment-134438:
List of countries by the number of US dollar billionaires:
US = 615
World = 1,826
It is not a US exceptional empire – it is a WORLD empire dominated by psychopathic oligarchs (individuals & corporations)
Well Empire loyalists will always think the World better off ruled by the “exceptional”,no matter what anyone says.I accept that.And I will always believe that won’t happen,and shouldn’t.That is what puts you on one side of this argument,and me on the other.
Uncle Bob 1 on August 18, 2015 · at 10:32 pm UTC said:
“Well Empire loyalists will always think the World better off ruled by the “exceptional”,no matter what anyone says.I accept that.And I will always believe that won’t happen,and shouldn’t.That is what puts you on one side of this argument,and me on the other.”
Nope – if your definition of exceptionalism is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exceptionalism
Exceptionalism is the perception that a country, society, institution, movement, or time period is “exceptional” (i.e., unusual or extraordinary) in some way and thus does not need to conform to normal rules or general principles.
I similarly hate it.
However, I still don’t understand the basis on which you consider a “multi-polar” world to provide benefit so i’m not sure which argument we’re on opposite sides of?
Anonymous, if you are convinced enslavement to oligarchy is inevitable, or wish to convince others of that idea, then of course nothing contrary stated by U Bob 1 about the advantages for humanity in a multi-polar world will make sense to you. On the other hand, if you start from realism and opportunism (in a good sense) and grasp that if a small nation has any leverage at all to use to seek some protection from competing giants then it is clear as can be that some leverage has to be preferable to zero leverage, and U Bob 1’s analysis will be completely reasonable to you.
As though all the billionaires in the world are in complete lock step agreement.
Who was it that said, “Man is born free, but is everywhere in chains!”? Mostly self -imposed chains at that, even where there is relative peace and prosperity. While others in far tougher circumstances may well be of more indomitable spirit.
mind and soul on August 18, 2015 · at 11:50 pm UTC said:
“Anonymous, if you are convinced enslavement to oligarchy is inevitable, or wish to convince others of that idea, then of course nothing contrary stated by U Bob 1 about the advantages for humanity in a multi-polar world will make sense to you”
I don’t consider that it is enivitable – see my post below /will-russia-finally-agree-to-deliver-s-300s-400-to-iran/comment-page-1/#comment-134561
But, if you keep thinking that a multi-polar world wherein each pole is set up on a Capitalist base and the leaders are psychopathic oligarchs then there is no doubt that the enslavement referred to will happen. To do the same thing multiple times while expecting a different outcome is futile.
I have some sympathy with Penelope’s approach i.e. that if Russia/China were to break free from the shackles of the IMF/World bank then a suitable base may form…but I doubt it.
Even the communist experiment of the USSR resulted in control by psychopathic oligarchs.
In summary, while I don’t think the enslavement outcome is inevitable I do think it’s the most likely outcome, we are already 80/90% in the Animal Farm – the crazy/motivated guys have a big head start on the rest of us “Hobbits”.
You said:
“As though all the billionaires in the world are in complete lock step agreement.”
It’s called the IMF/World Bank.
http://lit.md/files/nstarikov/rouble_nationalization-the_way_to_russia%27s_freedom.pdf
So, mind & soul can you please pin-point how the multi-polar world you also espouse can rid the “ordinary person” of the shackles of enslavement?
For example, what, from your comment, is the real benefit of a small country being protected from one of these competing giants you refer to if all the “ordinary people” of the competing giant are already enslaved (as largely are the Chinese / Russian people currently). For example, the “ordinary people” of “small” Iran are already enslaved by the ruling psychopathic oligarchs of Iran (e.g. http://www.theguardian.com/world/iran-blog/2015/may/15/irans-unequal-revolution-income-disparity).
While the psychopathic oligarch leadership of Iran may benefit from this protection by the enabling of their continuation in power compared to the alternative psycopathic oligarchic leadership that would be imposed by the alternative giant the enslavement of the “ordinary people” of Iran would not have changed by one jot.
Mind and Soul,
I like your answer that multi-polarity gives us a better shot at freedom.
I see it this way: The institutions of the NWO or the neoliberal economic order are a giant leash which keeps individual nations from having the monetary and trade sovereignty that they had until after WWII.
It is not enough to have multi-polarity in the hands on the leash. I want to CUT the leash, restoring full monetary & trade sovereignty by exiting the IMF & NWO.
Individual countries should manage their own monetary & trade affairs. If they don’t, then even our gaining control over our govts is worthless– because they are only entities subject to these unreachable institutions ruled by the banking and transnationals cabal.
Russia have already abandoned Assad in the new resolutim that calls for an interrim government in Syria, Russaía didnt veto it
Mikhael H,
I don’t think there’s any betrayal in peace negotiations for Syria based on Geneva 2012 Communique. If you pull up the actual text (It’s only 1 1/2 pages) it’s really ok.
If you want commentary & just the excerpts, search for Nile Bowie’s article on it.
The fact that there seems to be legitimate effort at peace negotiations is once more what Thierry Meyssan predicted, lends credence to his views. I’m recommending a whole slew of articles on Voltaire.net. Thierry wrote a good book on 9-11 and is pro-Russian.
If I remember correctly, the vote against Iran at UNSC was one of the conditions for Russia’s admission to WTO. Also the non-delivery on the contract.
Well, yes, the United States of Arrogance was blocking the accession process and possibly blackmailing Russia as well.
On the other hand, the Russian leaders ought to have known that it would not bring them benefits that could outweigh their losses (and freedom).
The WTO membership has failed to give Russia any worthwhile guarantees (as the sanctions have demonstrated), while the enforcement of the intellectual property bullshit has damaged the Russian economy quite a lot.
Couldn’t agree more. My only question is, why has it taken so long? Shameful indeed, and the longer it continues the more damage is done.
Good analysis Saker,
The world of politics is complex and unfortunately nowadays have little to do with honor, one always can find some kind of interest in the background, it seems to me that this problem with the S-300 delivery to Iran is related to some occult factor the Russians have discovered in relation to the real intentions of the Iranians, we can’t forget that these two great countries in spite of their friendship compete to export the same resources (for example maybe the Europeans are having advanced talks with the Iranians with respect to gas and oil resources in order to obtain as soon as possible independence from Russian gas imports).
Another possibility are the recent Russia-Saudi Arabia negotiations, is sure the Saudis have done a lot of pressure over the Russians to impede the delivery of these arms. We
don’t know the possible magnitude of these negotiations but it’s clear that something has changed and this must have troubled the Iranians a lot.
Personally I’m troubled by the Russian talks with Saudi Arabia.Russia seems to have the foolish notion (constantly have) that you can always made a deal with your enemies.That just isn’t true.Some people it isn’t possible to deal with in good faith.Certainly you might be able to make a “temporary” deal with an enemy.But long term,it isn’t possible.They will betray the deal at anytime it serves their purpose to.The Saudis and the Empire are two of those you can’t deal with.The ideology is too great with one.And the greed too great with the other.While the concept of honor doesn’t exist with either.Given that,Russia is wasting its time and effort on a worthless attempt.Instead of spending its efforts on winning this war.If I could advise them of anything I’d tell them to “keep your eyes on the prize” and only that.
Don’t be too troubled. The Russians consider Saudi Arabia to be their number one deadliest enemy. That’s precisely why they are dealing with them.
Winning which war?
Syria? Requires 100,000 boots on the ground without allies.
Donbass? They will win without using Russian manpower, just material and brains.
Some other war?
In the end, you need to do diplomacy to adjust all the stakeholders and neighborhood interests.
Diplomacy is a weapon and the Russians are excellent at it.
They are weak on Media and global propaganda.
I think the numbers needed are inflated.What is more needed is better trained elite troops armed with good weaponry.The ISIS enemy,and so-called FSA terrorists, are a danger to the armies they face because of the low level of those armies.As spread out as the ISIS is,good tough well equipped troops could destroy them.Being, as many if not most of them aren’t even Syrian, I don’t see them as being as effective fighters as the Taliban in Afghanistan (without the home grown advantage of the peoples loyalty to local boys).And the terrain in Syria (and Iraq) is fatally different to Afghanistan, for that to favor them either.As for the Ukraine war,I agree.There is no need for “actual” Russian troops (at least so far),as long as volunteers continue from Russia.And the NAF is able to recruit locally.They will be able to win themselves,with only Russian equipment help.But I don’t see “diplomacy” doing anything positive for the situation.
Uncle Bob I, Isn’t cutting the supply line everything in Syria’s fight against the jihadis? Not much is written about the difficulties of cutting it as it exits Jordan. I suppose Israel & the Saudis protect it there? I understand the Kurds had closed passage to ISIS supplies out of Turkey on a section of the border, and that preventing their closing the rest was another cause of Erdogan’s recent action against them.
Erdogan’s mental stability really may become an issue. He wants to jail the opposition parliamentarians! He is gambling everything on snap elections that must be held in about a month when his time to form a coalition govt is up. Only if he gets his AKP majority back can he push thru the constitutional changes that consolidate all power in his own hands. He seems beside himself at the prospect of so much power & a chunk of Syria too.
It hasn’t made much of a splash in the media, but according to Hurriyet Daily & to Fars news The Turkish Army refused about a month ago to go into Syria: They said they needed written orders signed by the new govt (which hasn’t been formed yet). I guess that was the reason for the recent “ISIS” attack on Turkey, but to no avail.
I agree,the supply lines certainly need to be cut.And there, one would think, Russia and China should help.At least with targeting information on supply truck convoy’s,etc.
Bob,
This is an aside that is unprovable, but interesting nonetheless.
In the early days of the Ukrainian crisis, someone with connections and credentials related to Russia’s foreign policy establishment was posting a bit briefly on Reddit to answer some questions that academics and such had. He apparently showed copies of some of his official documents and they were considered legitimate by most there. Anyway, he argued that the Kremlin simply was surprised that something could be more important than money. Russian policy in the Ukraine and the Baltics for that matter came down to breaking out the checkbook if there were problems. If you need the Crimean bases renewed, you bribe the right people in the Ukraine. He felt that the thinking inside the Kremlin regarding ethnic minority issues, such as Russians in the ex-USSR or, say, Armenians in Georgia was just wait as time would heal everything. People learn multiple languages, and the elites get money. Win-win. Something like Soros creating NGOs to brainwash half the population was not in his field of vision.
While intelligent and not a bad guy, it was still a bit disappointing to read how the highest and greatest principle was money. The universal solvent. He honestly couldn’t understand how Germany or Kiev would go against their own pocketbooks. Shouldn’t people in the business of diplomacy know the classics of geopolitics and realize that a neutered or even broken Russia would be worth a hundred times as much to Germany as a win-win deal like what existed before the Ukrainian crisis?
I’ve long thought that too.The problem is they were right about that in the past.In dealing with the corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs.As well as some others.But they aren’t always dealing with those type’s.And its the “true believers” that they don’t understand how to deal with.Before during the Soviet days,they understood that.But with the utter corruption of the post-Soviet Yeltsin period.Where every official could be bought (almost every).And where oligarchs ran everything.It perverted the thinking.And made even intelligent people forget that not “everyone” is for sale.That is what has led to the crisis’s we have today.And unless they quickly start understanding that everything isn’t about “money” with people.We may not have the multi-polar World.
The Russians are very smart to meet with all the actors. They met with Bandar, and now he’s back in his crypt. They’re going to have to, soon enough, decide on whom to back in the SmackDown that’s going to take place among the Saudis. I think they’re scouting the horizon for any Ho, Mao, Fidel, or Hugo that might pop up. Imagine how much the US has lost by not talking to these people.
I’m undecided about the Irani intentions wrt the bomb. As I mentioned before, their embrace of Uranium-cycle energy is unsettling. The sanctions have had somewhat of a positive effect on Iran, as the country has been forced to adapt via in -house production of nearly everything. They have been resilient enough to withstand currency attacks. Iran has a highly educated, motivated, and talented population, with a very long diplomatic history.
Dear Saker, You make perfect sense. It seems the anti-aircraft weapons are long overdue, as is a closer alliance between Russia and Iran.
I am concerned though about a catastrophic Iranian re-alignment being reported by Thierry Meyssan. He has been reporting events like Putin’s June 29 press conference w the Syrian Foreign Minister in which Putin seems to commit Syria to joining an ISIS-fighting coalition including Turkey & the Saudis– strange given that the others originated & maintain the jihadis.
Meyssan reported in a Saturday interview on World Crisis Radio, at 27:30 that there was a secret agreement between Iran and the US, wherein Iran would cease to be a revolutionary state battling imperialism, so that its upper class could join the capitalist class. I had already read elsewhere that upper class Iranians were sick of wartime austerity. The Iranians have already applied to the WTO, and of course Rohani is an important step away from a stalwart like Amadinejad. And it’s confirmed that there are two secret agreements w Iran. Except they are characterized in the media as between IAEA & Iran (not terribly plausible).
Any way, Meyssan says the re-alignment shakes out as the Saudis get victory in Yemen, the Iranians win in Syria w detailed UN step-by-step peace negotiations already made public. The Shiite/Sunni conflict in the middle east is over; and Turkey’s Tatars & Ukraine are to start Black Sea/Crimea hostilities, which has also been reported elsewhere. In other words, the jihadis move east.
Thierry Meyssan came out with a written article today covering most of the same material: http://www.voltairenet.org/article188459.html
Read together with http://www.voltairenet.org/article187975.html he outlines tremendous change in the middle east, which seems like a clearing of the decks to concentrate on Russia.
I have not followed Thierry long enough to know whether he is reliable. He tends to print original documents where others only characterize them. He is living in Syria and is pro-Russian. For the past month he has been writing articles that contain undigestible bits which finally coalesce in this last article.
I wd really be grateful for your opinion re Thierry generally, and especially regarding these two articles.
PS Another indication of evil things going down: Lavrov allowing himself to be overheard saying “f**ing morons” while meeting w Turks.
I believe “temporarily” Yemen is lost.So if a deal was made for the Saudis to win there and Syria be won by Iran and Russia that might be a “temporary” good arrangement.But as for Iran and the US becoming “friends” I don’t see it. Neither the Israelis,on one side.Nor the Iranian religious leaders on the other would permit it.They might not go to war with each other,but become friends is just out of the question.There is just too much hated involved for that.
There is an old joke that “behind every mullah’s beard is a British agent”. Not necessarily true, but wouldn’t the actual opposition to friendship with America be found in the groups like Ahmadinejad? Rafsanjani’s people would be as corrupt and pro-Western as they come.
As for hatred, is that true? It just looks like a power struggle, at least from a distance. Who will have the most influence in that part of the world?
I agree,but remember Khamenei,and those around him think a great deal like Ahmadinejad.I don’t know how politics will play out in Iran.But I remember reading how popular Ahmadinejad was among the majority of Iranians.So I think a pro-West move (even if the US’s master didn’t oppose it as well) would have too much opposition among the rank and file Iranians to really mean anything.
The problem with your thinking is that a large number of people under the age of 30 or so are becoming disenchanted with their government due to the economic sanctions. Just read or listen to Wahid Azal talk about this. The Iranian government risks losing everything at some point because of the significant loss of popularity/legitimacy. Wahid doesn’t like this one bit, and thinks the nuclear deal is a big sell-out and loss for those of us who do not care for the Anglo-American system. But Tehran had no choice really. His question, and mine, is why did Russia and China go along with this? Some of the terms are going to force Iran to become and stay pro-Western. If you haven’t read the agreement, you should.
Ahmadinejad was for helping the poor and rural folks, which made him popular. But the government can’t afford any help, and desperately needs to modernize various industries. By selling out, they will get tens of billions of dollars before long, and more than that in the long run. This is very hard to resist. If Ahmadinejad came back but couldn’t bring bread subsidies and welfare, he wouldn’t get the votes. And there is no money for the people now.
Paul & Bob, Ahmadinejad has been neutered. They put up obstacles to his running for parliament. Fearing his popularity I guess. Rohani was a definite change of direction. I loved his speeches. We may not see his like again.
I wdn’t put any stock in Itan’s rhetoric tha the agreement won’t change their interaction w the US. It does show what the people want to hear, tho.
Paul II on August 18, 2015 · at 11:04 am UTC said:
“But the government can’t afford any help,
and desperately needs to modernize various industries. By selling out, they will get tens of billions of dollars before long, and more than that in the long run. This is very hard to resist. If Ahmadinejad came back but couldn’t bring bread subsidies and welfare, he wouldn’t get the votes.And there is no money for the people now.”As in, probably, all countries and the world in general that is just down to the way the society is organised – wealth inequality in Iran is likely as bad/worse than anywhere.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/iran-blog/2015/may/15/irans-unequal-revolution-income-disparity
The problem is not insurmountable but it does require the great mass of people to insist on a reorganisation of society to a fairer base and to ensure that a method to weed out potential psychopathic oligarchs is enacted so as to prevent them ever taking the reins of power.
Iran is currently no better / worse than anywhere else.
Salam Penelope,
You said it ,which I predicted last year. Therefore both, Iran’s win in Syria and Saudi’s win in Yemen are illusioniaries. It is a win/win for Muslim’s everywhere. And, lose/lose for Zionist everywhere.
Last year, I kept on saying that both Obama and Putin are in cahoots. There is no longer as such thingy as Anglo/Zionist, those are days of the past.
Best regards,
Mohamed
I posted an article here a while back, a few weeks maybe, about Russia planning on selling Iran modernised, updated S-300 systems. This one:
Moscow Close to Selling Air Defense System Better Than S-300 to Tehran
Negotiations on delivery of a more modernized Russian air defense system than S-300 to Iran are close to a successful conclusion, a source in the Iranian Defense Ministry told Sputnik on Saturday.
Negotiations are almost finished, Iran may receive a more modernized system instead of S-300", the source said.
He added that if the process of negotiations will be developing at the current pace, the air defense systems may be delivered by the year-end.
If Iran gets the S-300 system or other modern system it will be possible to say that the sky over Iran is protected against any airstrike", the source said.
As of testerday, see also:
Lavrov, Zarif Could Discuss S-300 Deliveries to Iran During Monday’s Talks
Doubtful, in my opinion, the Russians are going to export S-400 systems anytime soon (the next couple of years). Production of these is slow and Russia needs all they can produce right now to upgrade their own air defenses. But that doesn’t mean a situation deemed an emergency wouldn’t see Russia exporting S-400 to a “hotspot” if necessary, right now.
While the S-300 system is well known to ZPC/NWO intelligence reverse engineering, one should understand that a moderised version, with a new electronics suite, and new components inside the missiles themselves will render western intelligence obsolete. The Russians have also not just moderinsed the system, but created a new one based upon it:
Eliminating violence. Antey 2500
Both the moderised S-300 and the Antey 2500 are sufficiently different from the older S-300 systems zionazi/nazi intelligence gatherers have accumulated data on, that they represent enough of an unknown to the militaries of the various ZPC/NWO colonies, that faced with these newer systems, the things cant plan their attacks with the sort of certainty these parasites require. And the sods need that certainty, because their PR machine cant gloss over spectacular failure in the field, now that the internet, and Russian media have a say.
My guess is the Iranians are being offered the 2500, or maybe something similar, but newer, more attuned to specific Iranian requirements, but still based upon the S-300 system.
They should ship about 500 ARMATA to Iran also! 300 for Syria 200 for Iran or more, Like as many as they feel they need for their defense.
If Russia and China want a multipolar world, then have have to get air defence into the target countries. At the moment Syria, Iran, Yemen.
Older tech S-300s in case they are captured but with close in air defence protecting them.
The US and vassals cant do jack sh– if they don’t have air superiority.
China has a lot of money invested in the US and are thinking long term but not much use if the US beats them in the short term.
Chinese manufacturing power and Russian tech. older tech SAM systems in quantity with close in defence will fill US and “allies” body bags which is all that’s needed to put a stop to US ambitions.
Let’s be realistic. Putin accepts the sovereignty of both Iran and Israel. This is why he can contribute to stability in the region.
If we cannot accept the existence of either state, then we are part of the problem.
Completely agree, Saker.
Iran needs a complete all-around air defence before the Nazis running the White House give it the Yugoslavia/Iraq/Libya treatment.
One additional point not covered by the author. According to the Russian military, the system has to be configured / customised for the Iranian military requirements. Thus it is not just a matter of firing up a production line. The Russians and Iranians appear to have developed a final specification.
https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.en/www.e-news.su/news/68834-kozhin-rossiya-postavit-iranu-modernizirovannyy-s-300-ego-dorabatyvayut.html
Regarding veto on sanctions etc, Russia learnt the lesson following Medvedev’s non-veto of the US/NATO no fly zone during the Libya crisis. Medvedev is/was pro-Western. Was he also responsible for the non-veto of Iranian sanctions?
Yonatan, So many different waves of add’l sanctions against Iran. All discussed at Wikipedia. Medvedev is Jewish, converted to Orthodox Christianity (probably for political reasons)
Penelope
So many different waves of add’l sanctions against Iran. All discussed at Wikipedia.
The ubiquitous zionazi spamming source to be promoted at every opportunity. Got to keep up those page hits there coming so it stays at the top of web searches, eh penny…
Bot Tak, Not sure I understand you. Are you saying that Wikipedia is the “ubiquitous zionazi spamming source”? Ok, if you say so. But it does cover the what the waves of Iranian sanctions were & probably doesn’t mis-characterize them any more than the MSM.
You know, Bot Tak, on the other thread you really did misunderstand me. I contributed, thru posting one wrong link which was already in my buffer. Also the moderator, who you may have noted was really oppositional to my position, omitted two of my posts. I suspect that you are unaware of the areas of agreement in our two positions. But, C’est la vie.
According to RT, the ban on selling the S300 to Iran has been lifted by the President.
Obama downplays Russia S-300 supply to Iran, ‘jaws drop’ in Israel
The Russian president has repealed the ban prohibiting the delivery of S-300 missile air defense systems to Iran, according to the Kremlin’s press service. The ban was introduced by former President Dmitry Medvedev in 2010.
Putin lifts ban on delivery of S-300 missile systems to Iran
good to hear, but lets see something actually shipped.
That’s good example of Russian perfidity when comes to sell of S-300 to Iran. It’s good as Gringos or Jewish. It’s shame on them. We can’t trust anyone in this shity world.
The problem is that Ruskis have too much of Jewish shit in they ranks and if Vlad is a friend of that criminal in Tel Avive , that’s not good at all for us. Only hope that little Hitler McCain et al will force Ruskis to fight.
Q; The Iranian defense minister would not specify the exact time of the delivery,
R; OK. CU when you get there…
Hasn’t the renegging on the s-300 contract been initiated during the purported AngloZionist agent Dmitry Medvedev’s reign as the president of Russia?
Why hasn’t Putin confirm his reputation as a fighter against the judeo-masonic NWO by making sure the contract is fulfilled and the air-defences are delivered to Iran properly?
Also allegedly , the Russian s-300 to Syria were delivered with a key component missing making them pretty much useless operationally during which period these s-300 were destroyed by Israel as they were said to had being moved under Hezbollah control. Was that how it happened ?
Russia has delivered six Mig 31 long range fighter-interceptor aircraft with a Russian refueler to Syria. I guess this answers the statment that appeared in western MSM that Putin is giving up on Assad.
https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.en/www.e-news.su/in-world/70991-po-zubam-li-druzyam-sirii-postavlennye-v-damask-iz-rf-31-e-sushki.html
Salam Everyone,
The Question is: Why does after the nuclear deal, Iran would have the need of S300 any longer?
Which are still to be delivered at some future un-specified date.
No need. The Powers are simply telling the World, that the days of sanctions are over.
Best regards,
Mohamed
Who in the west would you trust not to attack? The US? Israel? France? Anyone? And who int the mideast? Saudis? The world, especially the empire, is filled with predators, and there is no international body capable of enforcing law or peace.
Salam Blue,
Why would Iran now need the obsolete S300. When they really needed it, they were not delivered, and still they are not being delivered.
With sanctions over on Iran, they can buy the latest and best from anyone they want.
Best regards,
Mohamed
Worthy perspective.
A few points…
Weapons from the west should not be trusted to not have electronics open to being deactivated by the empire.
Apparently the S300s were not needed in that Iran has not been attacked (significantly) so perhaps Russia took other actions in defense of Iran making it impractical for the west to attack it. Additionally, the west may block sale of others to Iran — they would certainly try. The Mistral deal was blocked, so I wouldn’t expect to get them from France, at least.
The various sectors in Russia make anything Russia did, or even do, more difficult due to internal resistance.
The S300s on the table now are said to be the upgraded ones which are quite formidable — there may not be much better for the situation in Iran.
Overall, I’d say that delivery of these is good news and a good choice for Iran.
I know! The Israelis (and their Christian Zionist fellows) have convinced most US Christians that they are the Christian version of the “chosen people”.And the US is some kind of “promised land” in the Biblical sense.So that they will have a connection with the Zionist “Israel”.Its insanely evil.But then Zionism is insanely evil,so it fits.It also “dovetails” neatly with the myth of “exceptionalism” so believed in the US.No one should ever doubt Zionists aren’t smart,as well as evil.
http://www.rt.com/news/312804-russia-iran-s300-delivery/
Russia & Iran reach agreement on S-300 air defense systems delivery – deputy foreign minister
Published time: 19 Aug, 2015 10:08Edited time: 19 Aug, 2015 12:19
Moscow and Tehran have reached an agreement over delivery of the S-300 long range surface-to-air missile systems. It’s a done deal, with some technical issues only left to be clarified, deputy foreign minister Mikhail Bogdanov told RIA Novosti.
“As things stand now, this topic is closed. We have reached full understanding on the matter together with our Iranian partners. The question has been fundamentally solved. The rest is just technical details,” Bogdanov, who is also a special presidential representative for the Middle East and Africa, stated on Wednesday.
Russia will supply Iran with the S-300 system later this year. A high-ranking source in the Russian Foreign Ministry told RIA Novosti that the exact number of missile systems has been written down in an already agreed contract.
[…]
Simply Russia is not to be trusted by the developing world…not yet. Russia has not been an a slaver and capitalist exploiter on par with the west. yet the New Russia has taken some decisions that makes one wonder…
no veto of the Libyan Intervention, this issue above with the S-300..all sorts of kowtowing to the west that has heaped limitations on Russia. it seems contradictory to me all the multi-polar talk with Russian behavior.
it seems that Russia is only waiting and ready to join up with the west nice it can get a favorable deal…once Russia is sure they will be left alone. Russia appears to want to be western and would give up a lot to be
but they wont be left alone..cant be left alone by the west. the west must absorb the planet or die trying. and of Russia understood that why are they so reticient?
“I will reply that Russia made a huge mistake by allowing such Resolutions to be adopted …”
During striptease the wise concentrate on the audience not the stripper.
If everything was self-evident, there would be no need for science.
The wise? Or the pick-pockets and the gays? Mod ME
“The wise? Or the pick-pockets and the gays? Mod ME”
Thank you for further illustration of immersion in the opponents’ techniques, prejudices and insecurities including but not restricted to pick-pockets and gays.
Broadcast is made on transmission and reception is a function of facility.
The wise are generally less prone to surprises partly as a consequence of –
“During striptease the wise concentrate on the audience not the stripper.”
@Mod ME: absolutely brilliant observation, ROTFL! :-DDD
The best one in the discussion, without question!
“but to them I will reply that Russia made a huge mistake by allowing such Resolutions to be adopted and, furthermore, that the UNSC Resolution did not cover systems such as the S-300. The decision to renege on the Iranian contract was a unilateral Russian decision.”
A good illustration of deflection of investigating/establishing “mistakenness” and “sole agency” through asserting and emoting.
ok, let me explain the logic behind the sanctions that Russia & China aproved..
(you may also check on archives on goingtotehran.com)
Yes this is a game of chase, with short term goals and long term goals. The playbook is san tzu art of war.
1. Give your enemy a rope to hang himself: everytime the US wanted sanctions, the russians esp the chinees would biker & complain and have the sanctions watered down to such an extent that they wouldnt harm their interest ( in this case, what you think is of interest maybe quite different). To the chines, oil and some lucrative business sectors. Thus all european countries were forbiden by uncle sam from doing bussiness with IRAN but the chines could. The US gets to impliment the sanctions + additional ones. Thats a short term goal (though the US doesnt realise it, its a negative long term goal). The iranians get to hate with a passion (plus much of the Muslim world) the US, precluding a possibility of IRAN ever getting on good terms with the US to the detriment of RUSSIA & CHINA.
2. allow the US to invade other countries, the whole world including the many in the west hate US. From Africa to Asia & latin america. in reality what the US is acomplishing is creating future none-compliant states when it will need them most. And guess who they will turn to? BRICS.
3. All these wars suck uncle sam’s money. True dollars are printed to infinity but, it gets uncle sam get stuck in its own quick sands. The US has spent trillions in IRAQ & afaghnistan. It is still not done with afaghnistan. Those talibans unwilling to be ‘democratised to death’. The IRAQIS…well you know…
The US spent lots money & men on Iraq, the chines just went with briefcases & deals were struck.
So why did the Russia cancel the deal? Had it given the IRANIAN the missile system, that would have put a break to washington’s ( Israel’s) plan to attack!! Guess where US would turn its attention to? ( but it did anyway!!). Basically the russians & chines wanted to wet US appettite without a really giving them a go..
what if US had decided to attack? GOOD FOR THE RUSSIANS/CHINES, in fact they hoped US would attack!!! Had the US attacked, the plan was to make sure uncle sam got defeated and his influence greatly diminished in the middle east that the chines would appear as angels. They also knew the US cant beat Iran!! They are certain factors that must be present to defeat a nation, none existed in Iran. True militarily u cant beat uncle sam ( lets face it, uncle sam is a jagganaut), but u cant bring iran to its knees. A country that knows how to produce its own weapons no matter how weak they are and is united is unbeatable. The US has failed in afaghnistan against the backward Talibans, u think they can beat Iran. Do you remember the iranian general said about the army: It is structured on the premise that they will one day fight UNCLE SAM!!
SO WHENEVER U SEE RUSSIA AND CHINA GIVING THE WEST A GO AT THE UNSC, just know its realy more than chase, its a game of go!! the gains are long term. washington gets the short term gain.
Its precisely cos these entanglements that has allowed china to form rival international institutions without appearing to be doing so. all those infrastructures, silk roads, deals in Africa ( u never here most of them), BRICS etc are because washington is busy elsewhere courtesy of chines and russians!!!
——————————————————————————-
I dont comment on articles online, so pliz comment, i would like to hear your views
“I dont comment on articles online, so pliz comment, i would like to hear your views”
A blog has uses as a drop box; amongst other things.
The use and contents of a drop box are strategically considered.
Consequently any comment broadcast concentrates on matters methodological in a restricted sense, the purposes including being to aid, catalyse, encourage, and facilitate lateral changes in perception and practice, as has been outlined on various ocassions.
“Transcendence requires a Socratic approach, not a messianic one”
No actionable intelligence is released – that would include commenting on your hypotheses.
However I would suggest that neither Russia nor China is playing either chess or go – which are both games, i.e. they both lie in the linear spectrum, paradigm, or if you prefer set defined as games.
I would suggest that neither Russia nor China are playing at anything – they are both dynamic, lateral, serious and studied in their endeavours.
ThickfaceBlackHeart,
Thanks for an interesting comment. Certainly has elements of truth in it.
I think that my main concern which is no doubt shared by many, is that the delivery of these systems may cause some degenerate American, Israeli, or NATO Dr. Strangelove to initiate an attack. I really must relax. The Russian naval presence in the region has everything covered with their on board anti aircraft missile systems. They are possibly superior to the *defensive* missile systems being offered to the Persians, and Iran couldn’t possibly be creditably condemned for wanting defensive systems. Get the lead out and make the deliveries.
“I really must relax.”
Pertinent advice which I suggest many should follow.
In some societies there is often a conflation of relaxation with doing nothing – especially prevalent in societies immersed in can-do-ness.
Relaxation facilitates the opportunity of doing things more effectively, where as can-doness often leads to premature ejaculation, embarrassing surprises, disappointment, knee-jerk reactions, and a witchhunt of others to take the “blame”, often perceived by some with different manifestations of immersion as “martyrdom”, thereby re-enforcing immersion faciltating continued immersion.
In societies of can-doness notions that immersion lies in a linear spectrum facilitates immersion of varying degree, not the end of immersion, that requires lateral challenge often facilitated by relaxation.
As to some elements of this immersion the following link may add some illumination.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/08/21/the-plague-of-american-authoritarianism/
Well, when I say I spend the afternoon at the beach does not mean I lie all afternoon in the sun as like “lagardes”, but I walk at least an hour, during which observe human beings enjoying nature and I think, how happy is the man when it is for a free hours in connection with their environment and with that blessed childish ignorance about what hangs over their heads and destinations….. After that I swim around a half hour ( not more because I’m cold – I’m thin and not wearing neoprene-) where I myself feel that special connection…… And I just lie in the sun to dry, back to catch heat and keep thinking…… Sometimes, as long as I’m there, I think of you and Comrade Putin……
Very interesting the article you are linking here, as always they are what you are linking….It´s already a while that I feel we are walking to fascism.
Today I have read this also interesting article linked by other commentator ( blue, to be exact ) in other thread:
http://stateofthenation2012.com/?p=8159
Well, It is as if someone had written in an understandable way what you were trying to say, in a not so open way, for some time in the blog ( about Putin and his associates, Yeltsin´s era, and the transformation of the USSR into today´s Russia ) at least that’s my impression.
However, as not everyone, or to be right almost no one, pays attention to what you say, and also your style is so confusing, you look undergone to multiple charges of trolling and more specifically Sayanim / Hashbara trolling that could well result in being banned in this blog, which I would regret very much.
Although often you are so cold, and sometimes even hard, to me -I suppose that are requirements of your profession / position-( I think the only time I’ve seen a glimmer of humanity / kindness was when the other day you wished me a good evening after that post on Gramsci ) I learn a lot from you, and since that is one of my main goals in coming to this blog, I’ll miss you.
Take care.
добрый день.
“Well, It is as if someone had written in an understandable way what you were trying to say, in a not so open way, for some time in the blog ( about Putin and his associates, Yeltsin´s era, and the transformation of the USSR into today´s Russia ) at least that’s my impression.”
Remember the why and why nows – add why in this form.
As to form, mode and “understandable way”, these are functions of purpose and access.
Stephen F Cohen and others had direct experience of Russia in the 1990’s but limited perception as a consequence of various factors – encouraged as you would probably expect. His perception has improved to some degree in the interim, as has John Meirsheimer’s. However the whys, why nows and why in this form are relevant as always.
This should also be applied to “blue” – why, why now and why in this form.
Was it in response to a broadcast made by Anonymous on the 23rd of August 2015 transmitted but not “published” in this blog through considerations of “moderation” illustrating the dangers of binary logic including 2nd level binary which underpins much of the opponents methodologies?
“However, as not everyone, or to be right almost no one, pays attention to what you say, and also your style is so confusing, you look undergone to multiple charges of trolling and more specifically Sayanim / Hashbara trolling that could well result in being banned in this blog, which I would regret very much.”
Perhaps you are mistaken in some regard:
“Anonymous on August 15, 2015 · at 12:24 pm UTC
Some respect oaths and professional standards.
Some understand that Brennan’s restructuring re-affirms and reinforces practices towards the unspeakable.
Some understand that reliance on chutzpah and self-delusion is unsustainable.
Reply
Anonymous on August 17, 2015 · at 6:52 am UTC
“Some understand that reliance on chutzpah and self-delusion is unsustainable.”
The requirement is not nationalism, but rationalism.”
Broadcasts are made on transmission, but as you acknowledge reception is a function of facility.
“or to be right almost no one, pays attention to what you say, and also your style is so confusing, you look undergone to multiple charges of trolling and more specifically Sayanim / Hashbara trolling that could well result in being banned in this blog, which I would regret very much.”
Any datastream has it uses.
If “published” you will find several responses in the immininent attack on Donbass section or whatever the title is in this blog.
Being banned from this blog would give rise to the same response as Gramsci for beginners.
A solitary flower is a marker of pollination; incidence, mode and vehemence of response often a marker of insecurity.
Transcendence requires a Socratic approach, not a messianic one.
Change is held to be uncomfortable; many are looking for a hologram of an invented past.
Some are greatly immersed in the ideologies and practices of the opponents.
Narratives of utility are comforting and forms of immersion.
The opponents wish their “subjects” to believe and emote, some others help catalyse lateral changes in perception and practice.
Always test the hypotheses without becoming a statue.
In Chile and elsewhere children cried and soiled their beds whilst their carers became statues as a consequence of “romanticism”. Apart from any other consideration, this self-indulgence on the part of their carers not only damaged their children but also their colleagues, whilst affording confirmation bias to some, and learning opportunities to others.
Death squads were particularly active in Argentina, Bolivia, Chile and Peru, but less so in Uruguay – why?
“Change is held to be uncomfortable; many are looking for a hologram of an invented past.
Some are greatly immersed in the ideologies and practices of the opponents.”
In illustration
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/08/28/the-myth-of-the-middle-class-have-most-americans-always-been-poor/
Just in case the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune lead to moderation, in “Western” militaryspeak blue is held to be “nasha” ours; and “blue on blue” is where they attack each other.
Remember to use the why, why now and why in this mode.
Omniscience does not exist and I’ll not comment on content.
However the contribution below may amplify a broadcast made in respect of your comment which was transmitted but apparently not yet published.
The contribution is:
The Pervigillium Veneris on August 22, 2015 · at 11:37 pm UTC
Well, I like to talk to you and, while not being offensive, I think we can talk, but why talk to who does not appreciate what you say?
That is why they accuse you of being a troll, although I see several trolls in this forum, not precisely anonymous, some heavy and bred, who post only unintelligible stuff and they add nothing to the discussion, and yet, we have to endure them because they seem to be very funny to whoever and, curiously enough, they do not bother anyone.
I can imagine why you result so upset to some…..but I am not going to say it here.
Well, to the fact, I found several links about the dictatorship in Uruguay, a subject that I have not even studied, and just have reviewed from above, I have not had time to thoroughly read them yet, but to your question:
“Death squads were particularly active in Argentina, Bolivia, Chile and Peru, but less so in Uruguay – why?”
Because there was an armed movement ( Tupamaros ) which joined strength with a solid network of unions and a students/teachers movement ( university )?
On the other side:
“Always test the hypotheses without becoming a statue”.
Do you think that I am in danger of becoming a statue? You have suggested that several times already. Added to that what you say about “being monitored”, sounds scary to me although still sleep well while the elbow does not hurt…..
As you are always advising me, I ´ll give you some advises in return:
-Try not to be so productive at certain times or at specific time ( dose yourself ) in order to not saturate the moderator, although, perhaps, you may not have much other time to post, which could be a problem.
-Try another time to post. I am often posting at nights here from 22:00 to 24.00 UTC+1 (+2 in summer ) one hour later from this schedule in summer.
I hope to see you around here.
доброе утро ( Сегодня я не ел ).
But, who can it be now?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7ohDyQ_uRo
In possible amplification.
https://thisishell.com/interviews/860-henry-giroux
Some may think to be a the – exceptional.
In NATOspeak blue is with the team; blue on blue is when the team disintegrates by attacking each other.
Reasonable since capitalism is the brothel where the inhabitants service one another.
Being counter intelligence would be stupid.
So what could be in Pandora’s box?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xj2bmQ4P4cM ?
“but why talk to who does not appreciate what you say?”
The “audience” does understand/appreciate what I broadcast, hence Anonymous.
The “evidence” exists in plain view – reference to a solitary flower may illuminate.
The purpose is always to catalyse lateral perception and practices.
Transcendence requires a Socratic approach not a messianic one.
The opponents want “their subjects” to believe and emote; others seek to catalyse lateral perception and practices.
“That is why they accuse you of being a troll, although I see several trolls in this forum, not precisely anonymous, some heavy and bred, who post only unintelligible stuff and they add nothing to the discussion, and yet, we have to endure them because they seem to be very funny to whoever and, curiously enough, they do not bother anyone.”
Perhaps you should return to the last link
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/08/21/the-plague-of-american-authoritarianism/
and ponder.
Or if you want back up why not try
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/08/21/the-west-spreads-intellectual-idiocy/
Then go back a while and ponder what was broadcast on criticism and its uses towards the beginning.
Then think colours in moderation.
Always try to remember that blogs are broadcasts, and on all data streams apply the why, why now and why in this mode.
“Death squads were particularly active in Argentina, Bolivia, Chile and Peru, but less so in Uruguay – why?”
Because there was an armed movement ( Tupamaros ) which joined strength with a solid network of unions and a students/teachers movement ( university )?”
That is a contributary part of a hypothesis to test but still with a notion of sole or limited agency, and possibly sole audience.
““Always test the hypotheses without becoming a statue”.
Do you think that I am in danger of becoming a statue? You have suggested that several times already. Added to that what you say about “being monitored”, sounds scary to me although still sleep well while the elbow does not hurt…..”
Sharks don’t tend to attack other sharks unless their environment is threatened.
Sheep who think they are sharks often drown, unless they are gobbled by sharks beforehand.
In normal circumstances sharks don’t tend to over-eat, and when there is too much prey they tend to be frugal, otherwise they would threaten the environment and likely be attacked by other sharks.
Another example of los caballeros de la rosa.
Some in the communist party in Chile were so disappointed in not being targetted by DINA that they attempted to take their frustration out against “Socialists” and “MIRistas.”
Perhaps they were subject to statue lust?
Something similar happened in Spain between 1936 and say 1976.
Russia is not the Soviet Union for many reasons.
Some think Russia has sharks, but that is largely projection of holograms.
Representatives of the Russian Federation and others are not subject to such projections.
Monitoring is virtually constant and multi-layerd and there in lies its opportunities.
Lateral opportunities of challenge are enhanced since belief, ignorance and inflexibility are vectors of transcendence.
“Try not to be so productive at certain times or at specific time ( dose yourself ) in order to not saturate the moderator, although, perhaps, you may not have much other time to post, which could be a problem.
-Try another time to post. I am often posting at nights here from 22:00 to 24.00 UTC+1 (+2 in summer ) one hour later from this schedule in summer.”
Thank you for the advice but perhaps you don’t understand the environment.
The Gramsci for beginners comment was multi-layer, as is the style.
Try to learn the benefits of relaxation.
I had already read that article about the neutralization of those attacks against Iran some days ago.
They are opponents and no nation-states, because not all in those nations-states are so opponents?
They are colleagues and partners because you and your associates manage to avoid certain follies through informal contacts?
I do not know, but once, long ago, I saw a film on TV where two intelligence oficcials, one in US and another in Russia, who being opponents mantained certain degree of friendship through the years, managed to avoid the mother of all battles when there were some crazy people behind the wheel……
When I see or feel that the world is moving toward disaster, always I remember this movie, you know, gives me hope to think that, maybe, someone can reverse the irreversible on time….
Then I can relax and sleep better. ;D
Now I am going to the beach. Need to swim for my recovery.
Bonjour!
If you ever hear the chorus singing about fifth columns, must do’s, nation states, national interests, national character, traitors and other simplistic notions, this is usually the croaking of pontificating amateurs.
Pontificating amateurs are included in the opponents; some pontificating amateurs are opponents of themselves as well as of others, so sometimes Socratic methods are used in exposure to facilitate the purpose of catalysing lateral change in perception and practice. Sometimes the purpose is attained through lack of challenge, which oftentimes facilitate confirmation bias in the pontificating amateurs.
Fear of exposure amongst other insecurities often leads to increased incidence and vehemence of comment by pontificating amateurs which further facilitates the purpose of catalysing lateral change, and so when pontificating amateurs are thanked for their contributions this is meant sincerely, as it was throughout the 1990’s and before.
After all, given the Yiddish blessing slightly adjusted – May you be blessed with intelligent friends and foolish enenies (opponents) – it would be impolite not to acknowledge at least joint agency.
The apostles who thought themselves desciples/messiah under Mr. Sachs and Mr. Aslund were such pontificating amateurs. This was “noticed” by their own “side”, hence the cancellation of the Harvard no-bid contract, subsequent “fact-finding missions” in Russia, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearings on Russia of 1994, and the doubling down by way of NGO’s, primarily to save embarassment by Mr. Clinton – problem displacement.
The same could be said of Mr. Petraeus and his “surge”.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/08/21/the-plague-of-american-authoritarianism/
Not everyone has caught the plague, and not everyone is a pontificating amateur.
Examples of those suitably innoculated may include Mr. Ray McGovern and Mr. Robert Steele.
Mutual respect does not require full and continued agreement.
All outlined above can be described as colleagues and partners since this acknowledges at least joint agency; the primary difference lies in whether these collegial relations and partnerships are conscious or unconscious.
The opponents wish their “subjects” to believe and emote; my associates and I help catalyse lateral changes in perception and practice. We don’t want anyone to believe and emote, but to think, since this will facilitate the transcendence of “exceptionalism” into equal and different.
Have you now understood at least some of why Psaki is ideal?
“Have you now understood at least some of why Psaki is ideal?”
Hmmm…marx o menos.
Anyway, from all this you are telling me here what interested me less is Psaki, she looks very tense, poor …. should not sleep very well.
Ray McGovern I already knew him from Crosstalk by Peter Lavelle, I has always liked him, from the first time I saw him I thought he had endearing eyes, from a good person.
Who I did not know yet was Robert Steele, but I’ve read a bit, has loving eyes too, and what he says is wonderful, well, I was really excited thinking that in the end had found the alternative….until have read that of the city-states … .ainsss … the libertarian dream has shattered to me, because, crumbling nation-states to make them small medieval fiefdoms is nothing more and nothing less than the target of exceptionalists.
As you can see on this link, “the fisherman robot” also has the fly in the ear:
http://elrobotpescador.com/2014/06/26/robert-steele-el-ex-agente-de-la-cia-que-llama-a-la-revolucion-global/
“crumbling nation-states to make them small medieval fiefdoms is nothing more and nothing less than the target of exceptionalists.”
One of the broadcasts that was moderated was an exploration of binary logic, including second level binary, and its uses in “exceptionalism” – it is simultaneously a form of “exceptionalism”.
It was written in response to blue /is-an-ukronazi-attack-imminent-yes-so-what-else-is-new/comment-page-1/#comment-135992
The response was:
Anonymous on August 23, 2015 · at 7:01 am UTC
Congratulations on another IP address change, Niall. Mod ME
Some “audiences” received and considered the transmission.
Many of the opponents perceptions/practices are based on binary logical systems, binaries being constrained within linear logic.
Some of the opponents perceive the limitations of binary systems including statistics, and this perception informed the quest for “big data” that Mr. Snowden and others have highlighted.
“crumbling nation-states to make them small medieval fiefdoms is nothing more and nothing less than the target of exceptionalists.”
To posit false binaries is to practice cover within cover, particularly dangerous if self-delusion is not the purpose.
The demise of nation states does not necessarily lead to small medieval fiefdoms.
You are not only immersed in binary logic, but also engaged in posing false binaries.
In any lateral system omniscience does not exist.
If not placed within a lateral worldview, knowledge is an amalgm of to know and to allege, with an admixture of “certainty”.
Perception of lateralness is predicated on the acknowledgement and acceptance of doubt.
As outlined before the assertion of certainty or belief to bridge and hence obfuscate doubt illustrates discomfort of and inability to perceive the lateral, thereby re-enforcing immersion in the linear.
Sometimes in an attempt to obfuscate, over-extrapolation is used to “protect/substantiate” the linear whether consciously or unconsciously, for example in the uses of binary logic, and this obfuscation precludes lateral perception and practice, which is necessary for transcendence.
So to return to your phrase above, you could reasonably say that fiefdoms are exceptionalist, but so are definitions, since often definitions attempt to establish the is and is not within a linear paradigm.
Ideology is an ingested and a habit forming narcotic.
To posit binaries including false binaries in a lateral environment is to chase your tail.
“the target of exceptionalists”
As outlined previously in terms of plans, strategies and targeting, these words should probably be substituted by the word “wishes”.
You may have noticed the relatively high incidence of “unintended consequences” and pondered how so?
As a certain gentleman asserted philosophers to date merely described the world, the problem is to change it.
Consequently it would be unwise on a broadcast medium to transmit more data on why the incidence of “unintended consequences”.
http://fortruss.blogspot.ru/2015/08/august-28th-2015-politrussia-translated.html
An illustration of why in the proximity of a striptease the wise concentrate on the audience, that evaluation is a function of purpose, and how focus on “technical solutions” and “game changers” facilitates the pursuit of linear strategic options.
Perception is akin to digestion, it is a process that takes time and effort.
Perhaps from the link below your ignoring of Memorial will come into focus.
A plethora of statues were not raised since this is a tool of deflection and obfuscation.
http://russia-insider.com/en/russia-redouble-efforts-commemorate-victims-stalinism/ri9422
Russia is not the Soviet Union.
Perhaps in illumination
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-culling-of-sharks-and-coastal-marine-ecosystems/5472436
if in addition the Chinese campaign against birds in the 1950’s with the contingent rise of snails is considered.
More a recognition of weakness than of strength; a linear not a lateral strategy.
http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2015/08/29/has-gladio-returned-to-europe.html
““Anonymous on August 15, 2015 · at 12:24 pm UTC
Some respect oaths and professional standards.
Some understand that Brennan’s restructuring re-affirms and reinforces practices towards the unspeakable.
Some understand that reliance on chutzpah and self-delusion is unsustainable.
Reply
Anonymous on August 17, 2015 · at 6:52 am UTC
“Some understand that reliance on chutzpah and self-delusion is unsustainable.”
The requirement is not nationalism, but rationalism.”
“Perhaps from the link below your ignoring of Memorial will come into focus”.
Well, I do not ignore Memorial nor anything you “emit”, as you could see. But remember that I always say that I am a woman of little faith. Despite I would prefer those “data” you mentioned Andropov had and even better if explained by Vladimir Vladimirovich himself, well, as you have proved being right in some things already, I promise I will take a look on the Memorial data. Pleased? I hope so.
Anyway, I have never denied the existence of the victims, which I refusse to accept is the sole responsibility of Stalin in all this. Let’s see, who was in charge of “security”? It was Beria. And yet, there he is, sleeping the sleep of the justs, without anyone who curses his name. Another of many that always land on their feet…..
Besides, you have apparently privileged information that I do not have, but well, mark up one more on your score…..
I have already read some about Mr. Mitrione and I’m glad I was not yet born when this “specimen” was making what he called “social prophylaxis”. He had psychopath eyes…..
“But remember that I always say that I am a woman of little faith.”
The opponents wish your belief and emoting. It would appear that like many you continue to be immersed in the emoting.
“which I refusse to accept is the sole responsibility of Stalin in all this”
Sole agency has never been asserted and never will be asserted in respect of anything.
Many were involved, and most of Soviet society were complicit in some way.
Amongst the major contributory factors were, the Bolshevik’s notions outlined in “What is to be done”, the Bolshevik putsch, and the ensuing “dictatorship of the proletariat”. The Bolsheviks and the nomenklatura were exceptionalists; the Soviet Union a class society based on a form of commodity production – “communism” never existed.
“It was Beria. And yet, there he is, sleeping the sleep of the justs, without anyone who curses his name.”
That is incorrect in respect of Russia. Beria is widely known as a murderer, rapist and torturer.
“mark up one more on your score…..”
No one is keeping score or has a score, although you appear to believe that information is used as a weapon, which reflects the perceptions and practices of the opponents.
“Mr. Mitrione and I’m glad I was not yet born when this “specimen” was making what he called “social prophylaxis”.
Persons akin to Mr. Mitrione are still operating and hence you were born and live in times of making “social prophylaxis”. However the opponents’ security services were/are not homogenous.
An interesting question to ponder would likely be – Why did Mr. Mitrione lose his psychopath eyes?
Russian umbrella was over Iran as it has been over Syria and so the S-300’s were not required to prevent attack. Now Iran is standing on its own two legs so to speak its dignity requires its own defence and hence to completion of the missile contract. As for Russia so thought sucking up to NATO who can actually believe such garbage.? It seems to me that Russia has played a strikingly clever game given the cards left to it after the ruinous decade under Yeltsin. It accommodated NATO’s ingress into the force killing swamp of Afghanistan and in the background steadily rebuilt its force potential well under the radar of the pre occupied West and this can be seen now with NATO basically excluded from the Black Sea. The EW capabilities shown by Russia have freaked out NATO and its planned attack on Russia has been aborted. The Donald Cook limped home. Think about that. The French surveillance ships have retreated from the Black Sea and don’t think for a moment they were not there to assist with an attack on the Donbass. Russia has played itself back into the Game big time. The placement of its missile cruiser off the coast of Syria as the bombardment was about to be unleashed on Syria is the reason that attack was stymied. The chemical weapons eradication organised by Russia was nothing more than a fig leaf to cover the fact that Russia was prepared to shoot it out with two USA carrier groups to prevent the dismemberment of Syria. Russia laid it on the line…back off or you will lose.! No one seems to recall an RT interview with Putin shortly after the peak of the US Russia confrontation over Syria wherein Putin said: yes we have won this round of the confrontation with the US but a bigger trial awaits us shortly wherein a serious confrontation will take place well to the North of Syria during the course of the next year, it will be very dangerous and it may go on for some time but Russia will prevail. I have a copy of that interview somewhere but I am sure Saker that you could find it and post it here if you tried. And as for the reunification of Crimea with Russia can anyone yet understand that Russia was not surprised by the coup in the Ukraine? That Russia watched it all unfolding! That it prepositioned everything and everyone it needed in Crimea to move straight to reunification the moment the Ukraine trap had sprung.? This has been the shock of the ages for NATO that Russia watched them bringing this situation on from the very start.! That interview Putin gave to RT is the key to understanding the awesomeness of Russian re emergence. The full spectrum capability of a great nay super power.
Get in touch with RT Mr Saker and get that interview.
Well but lets remember non delivery was an Atlanticist decision and some said he has some gains with the Mistral affair…it seems, I can not affirm it, Atlanticism is defeated in Russia and if so it speaks volumes about Russians capacity to correct them shelves something very rare now days.
Russia is no friend of Iran under an Islamic regime. Its ties with Iran are based on national strategic interests, keeping Iranian isolated from Muslim lands still occupied by Russia, and exploiting Zionist sanctions against the Islamic Republic.
Russia has been holding the delivery of S300 for over a decade in spite of the fact that the purchase was already paid by Iran.
Russia along with its buddies-in-crime, the other Puppets5+1 countries which are known for their double standards in almost every international conflict involving Muslim nation-states. They all know that the Zionist entity has 240-400 nuclear bombs and it continuously refuses access to the nuclear watchdog, IAEA, to inspect Jewish nuclear facilities – but Russia like the other ZOGs, is only afraid of Tehran’s nuclear program.
http://rehmat1.com/2011/08/17/tehran-should-not-trust-moscow/
How is it our business what the Mullahs do to the Iranian people, seems to me it’s the Iranian people’s business same as Sadam was Iraqi business. America has way to violent history to be criticizing anybody for violence. We destroyed Latin America, we assassinated any body we didn’t like or looked like they might be a socialist and therefore an automatic enemy of the US. We make the same claim about the fundamentals in Afghanistan and then we blow up half their country with heartless drones killing all who are in the way enemy or not. It’s about time we started minding our won business. We are so corrupt and mismanaged at home we shouldn’t have time for this nonsense of butting in to other peoples business.
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Hello from Ireland. Certainly, as I see it the UN resolution specifically EXCLUDES defensive weapons so the s300 was never covered by those sanctions anyway. I believe that anne (below) is correct when she suggests that Putin was screwing Iran in order to get points. Putin now knows that he didn’t get any points. He got sanctions. He got a Russian plane shot down with the loss of fifteen crewmen. The cold war is much worse now that it ever was and he’s now doing the honourable thing and supplying defensive weapons to Iran, the country that needs them more than any other in the world. Putin’s s300/s400 system seems to be a game changer in asymmetric conflicts and we’ll hopefully see it play more of a part in the coming years. The Russians recently installed the Triumf system in Russia itself and that freed up some of the older s300 systems which he then gave free of charge to Assad. This is Christmas eve 2018 and I see that the USA has pulled suddenly out of Syria. That might well have been caused by the presence of the S300 system in Syria.