Dear friends,
I feel that I have to post the following few basic reminders:
1) If I post somebody else’s article, it does not mean that I agree with it. All it means is that I find it an interesting contribution to the analysis and discussion of the topic.
2) I never said that a disaster had happened, only that the fall of Slaviansk means that Russia must take action now.
3) I also said that Russia now has a serious image problem and that the fall of Slaviansk has now become the symbol of Russian inaction, especially for the defenders of Novorussia.
When I see the number of posters who accuse me of over-reacting, of having a panic attack, or being hysterical I am frankly baffled. For some reason, the following sentence appears to have been completely overlooked “Purely military arguments simply don’t matter here and perceptions become everything. And the perception is clearly that Putin failed to deliver on his promise to protect Novorussia and that the defenders of Slaviansk fought and died in vain“. But when I raise the alarm over the risk that these perceptions can be turned against Putin, I get accused of turning against him. Yet at the same time, I also get accused of being a Putin-groupie.
I have to admit that for the first time I am getting the feeling that this blog might really be the target of a deliberate and organized disinformation attack and I am not too sure as to what to do about it. Some of you had warned me about possible Pentagon or hasbara attacks, but it seemed to me that this modest blog did not deserve that kind of attention. Now I am reconsidering this.
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| Troll attacks? |
I hope to announce some major good news about the future of this blog in the next couple of days (stay tuned!), but I still need to find a way to deal with the comment moderation problem. Having more or less dealt with a first wave of neo-Nazis and “anti-anti-Semitic” trolls, I am now facing a second wave of anti-Putin trolls whose virulence is at least as rabid as the one of the first wave of trolls. And if the first wave was more or less pathological, it was at least not organized. This time around, it looks less crazy and far more deliberate.
So how do I respond? One option would be to limit comments to only registered users. I frankly don’t like this idea.
But I cannot deny any further that the level of trolling here has gone through the roof. Maybe some did not quite get what I meant due to my poor writing skills and confused way of laying out my ideas, but not in that kind of numbers. I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that some commentators are deliberately misrepresenting what I write in order to polarize the discussion and basically hijack the discussion in the comments.
For the time being, and just as a provisional measure, I think that I am going to toss out even more toxic comments than before. I hate to do that, but I see no other option. At the very least, I will toss out any hateful comments no matter at whom the hate is directed.
If you have any suggestions as to how to deal with such apparently organized and deliberate trolling attacks, I would be grateful if you could share them with me.
Kind regards and many thanks,
The Saker
I enjoy trolls. We can learned as much from a troll as from the wisest among your contributors!
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Maybe, you enjoy, try to troll on BBC, just try.
Trolls, Nazi, Russia-haters will drive away our pro Russian readers and company.
Your advice is very bad.
A question for the Ukropy: when does your right to live as a slave interfere with my right to live as a free man? You’ll find the answer at the barrel of my Kalashnikov for the next 20 years.
A question for the Ukropy: when does your right to live as a slave interfere with my right to live as a free man? You’ll find the answer from the barrel of my Kalashnikov for the next 20 years.
Well, I do not think there are many trolls on this blog. If anyone wants really know what an invasion of trolls is, go to the comments section of the Spanish newspaper El Páis,where it is imposible to say anything in favor of Syria, Russia or Palestine without a wave of trolls start posting writings of interminable lenght with faked photos inserted to bury your opinion with dozens of them. In this diary, certainly, you have to register with an email address, but it not only not deter the trolls but encourage them.
Normally, with the second argument of weight, trolls begin to personally attack or insult you directly, which in my case mekes me ignore them or say them goodbye with an “over and out” without more.
I´d like everyone had a nick here, because, as occurs me in other blogs and sites I frequent, also I have my favourite commentators. Although almost all the comments here are interesting.
But I understand that, in the era of the “all seeing eye”, people prefer to remain anonymous.
On show feelings and beliefs on the blog, it do not seem to me bad idea from the time, IMO, this blog was created a kind of bond between users, also make it something special. I think part of the seal of The Saker and his blog. I´m cheering myself lately to express feelings too, like Saker and others.
Even though I´m not very religious, practical levels, but believe in the trascendence, I love to hear fo your prayers and your hopes, everything for good, from my part is welcome. For example, when Mohammed speak us of Imam Mahdi, always think “God accelerate its arrival” although I´m not chií.
About criticize Putin or anyone else included Saker or one of us, why not? We are adults, it would be good if we could not express doubts on the actions or sayings of others, that does not mean that we are against a person, but, IMO, really appreciate it, and we would be explained or it reconsider about something said or done.
Since I consider this blog favorably to Russia and Putin´s leadership, I myself criticized yesterday Putin called Obama to congratulate the 4th July holyday, but so would my own husband. Although it is civilized to do it, and I think the current Russian administration tries to mantain half civilized ways in the middle of this disaster, I do not think that the behaviour of Obama and his administration is deserving whatsoever congratulations.
Dear Saker,
My bet is that the trolls couldn’t care less about the need to register if such a measure should be introduced. There’s nothing easier than setting up one or several fake IDs, especially if it’s your JOB to spoil a forum. I think that anonymous contributions are keeping this forum alive. It may be sufficient to just block as much as you think is necessary, then the blog will probably continue to be fine.
My suggestion: Keep up the good work and don’t let others change your way of handling things. Your analyses and comments are excellent.
In my opinion, e.g., you don’t need to calm down, to get some thicker skin, or to take any other unsolicited personal advice concerning your attitude. These personal comments could go directly into the trash, IMHO.
Recently you said generously that this blog is for us, the readers. But you are the host, and I believe that it’s up to you to make sure that things evolve in an orderly fashion. Block the haters.
Part 1
Take this message or leave it. I can only speak the truth.
I deal with NSA and IDF trolls almost every day. You seem surprised that you have trolls. There is no ‘might’. Of course you do. Even the smallest website receives automatic troll comments and emails from computer programmes. Your site probably has the attention of actual case officers.
Please understand – and I pull no punches – your troll problem is minor. It is nothing. You are very lucky. You understand me?
You get insults that you can delete. Your feelings are hurt. This is nothing. You are a man.
I work on forums where I can’t delete patent lies and libels. Not about me, but others. Novorussians. Palestinians. Iranians. Activists. Reporters.
In real-time, I see the government shills post calls for race war, religious crusades, bigotry and evil. Hundreds of times a day. And I can only choose some of those calls, when I decide which I will fight. ‘Let’s gas the disabled.’ ‘Let’s nuke Iran.’ ‘Will you stand with Israel, and help us defeat the muslim hordes?!’ ‘Pfft. Muslims. Niggers. Slavshits. Which is worse? Which should we kill first?’ ‘Ha! Watch this awesome video! A Russian separatist gets his head blown off by a grenade! You can see him die!’
I can never stop this poison from appearing, because the major web forums are jewish-owned, and operate under US laws; or are subject to US and Israeli foreign propaganda. The poison appears in front of a thousand, five thousand, even ten thousand new viewers an hour, depending on the site. I can only counter the poison with the truth. Posting for hours every night, and snatching sleep when I can. Then off to work. Then it starts again. I have not taken the weekend off in a half year.
I know that what I do can change lives, because forum posters have told me so. I stopped them from thinking war was the answer. Or I helped them see the propaganda. Some people told me I may have kept them out of jail. They feared they would have become victims of FBI/NSA sting operations. Entrapment. I told them to turn their backs on stupid or violent ideas. They came back and posted messages thanking me. Sometimes, I see those messages amidst all the poison. They are the only positive things I read. On a good day, I read one ‘thank you’ amidst thousands of ‘fuck yous’.
I post the truth on forums – as close as I can get to the truth – and then the shills post new lies immediately underneath me. I have to read everything they write, so that I can counter it. I am – apparently – a muslim cocksucker, a faggot cocksucker, a lesbian piece of shit, a putin loving homophobe, an atheist Obama-loving shithead, a mother fucking subhuman cunt, a fuckhead liar, a frigging republican ballsack, a piss-stained crook, and I fuck my own sister up the ass until blood comes out. Repeat those messages for every hour I am online, and repeat it in front of hundreds of thousands of unique website visitors. That is what I deal with.
If you are real – and I doubt that sometimes, with all your highly-strung emotion – you MUST check your ego, and your fears. It is not about you. But you make it about you. That discredits you. You seem shrill. You MUST not be. I say this not from some moral perspective. I am not judging you. I know you are not bad because you are shrill. I know you are probably running on coffee and adrenaline. But I know you are *mistaken*. I know you are hurting your cause.
Part 2
If you are real, you get the emails. I know the type. Taunting. Provoking. Daring. Mocking. Hit ‘delete’. And here’s a tip: you had better use two computers. One for email, and one for personal life. Your emails will have infected your computer with keyloggers and spyware: possibly, taking control of your camera and microphone. Chances are, the virus came in a friendly-sounding email. One you felt glad to open. Your virus scan will not show the infection. It is still there. You do not want personal information on that infected computer.
I am sorry, but your phone is tapped now. Every phone you have is now tapped. In the house, or your cell phone. You can’t speak freely near any device that has bluetooth, wifi or cable access to the web. Even an Xbox console, Tivo, or iPod Touch. (If you have the time, you can learn why. There is too much to explain now. It takes hours.)
Removing anonymous comments doesn’t help you. The NSA and Unit 8200 can get hold of unique IPs for anywhere on earth. They will have ‘legitimate’ email addresses, and websites, and Facebook pages, and backstories, with little photographs of each fake identity they use. All ready and waiting. One case officer might manage hundreds of identities. And dump them as easily as they created them. Cycling them. Moving to new identities.
Remove anonymity, and you hurt ordinary visitors. The ones who do not want to give you their email address – or any contact details – because they know your website is not secure, your PC is not secure, and their emails are read by the NSA. You send a confirmation email to them, to say ‘Congrats! You’re registered!’ and the NSA will know. (Before the intended recipient reads the email.) Email is a postcard. Anyone can read it.
If you ask commenters to post by logging-in, that usually means extensions like Java, JavaScript, Flash, or cookies must be turned on. All of those make a user’s computer easy for the NSA to infect, by intercepting traffic to your site. Which they already do, if they are using standard operating procedures.
Ask users to post from the same IP all the time? I won’t come back here. I cycle my IP for security. I hide in the crowd.
You have a lot to learn. Accept that. Accept that you have been making mistakes. That makes you a man.
I dont expect this comment to be published. It is a private message. I cannot email you, for reasons I have explained.
Saker:
I have had much difficulty with trolls, previously, but not so much anymore since resorting to IP blocking with help from a wonderful far away friend
Other crap that comes through I either delete or use it to point out, as an example, what type of attack is being launched against my writings
Speaking about propaganda and perception management, it needs to be done because it is so dam insidious
Good god, don’t take a cue from B at Moon of Alabama. I occasionally comment there and without fail, one individual bag of wind will build a strawman to denigrate my comment.
Sometimes another one comes out to help in the attack.
Another time even being told to F’ off . b allows this type of baloney to go on repeatedly.
When one or two individuals are allowed to run amok because they are filled with sweet words, just blowing hot air, it ruins the discourse for everyone.
And b himself is not above being rude either- calling Tony Cartalluci a CT or telling me my thinking is to ‘mechanical’ or other such nonsense..
(Yes, I lost respect for that place, and read there for just a few interesting commenters)
Finally!
Saker- It’s your blog, run it as you see fit
Saker- wear your heart on your sleeve
You are a human being- be proud of that!
I have worn my heart on a sleeve more then one time at the blog
Sometimes it just can’t be helped.
It’s a sign of love and compassion. and this world needs more of that!
Saker: If you want to talk religion, talk it, others can choose to read or pass by
It’s their responsibility to make a decision for themselves. If it bothers them, that is their problem not yours.
You can’t make everyone happy nor should you try
Above all else be true to yourself
I would recommend that you do not unnecessarily engage with agitators. They thrive from provoking reaction.
As you have previously stated, honesty is essential for establishing and maintaining credibility. Agitators/spin doctors/trolls that engage in distortions, spin and false narratives quickly establish that they have little credibility. Truth has a tendency to overcome their distortions. Simply put, veritas vincit (truth conquers).
It is inadvisable to waste too much time on such individuals as reason , facts and/or logic will generally not change their established beliefs (selective vision serving their confirmation bias) and positions.
Merely present facts as such, unverified information as such, and opinion as such.
Kind regards,
Deiiudicium.
The stupidest advice of all was for you to use Disqus which is more an invasion of privacy than Google’s supposed anonymous feature. Block those who astonishingly advised you to stop allowing anonymous comments. I am a neutral observer who values frank discussion on this topic. Should someone posting from Kramatorsk from either side have to own a string of comments with various ip addresses should your site get hacked? The other side could kill them for it. Let people allow themselves to be responsible only for individual comments. Disqus always turns discussions bland because smart people know they will be identified by all the other social networks they are logged into. Forcing people to register is the foundation of fascism.
I post comments on NY Times articles all the time, but most of my comments are not approved. It’s pure censorship. They have a right to do that, and so do you.
You finally figured out the CIA is paying trolls in an information war. So now deal with it and only post those comments that you ‘approve’ of. Fornicate them.
A different process like the one used in WordPress can reduce your moderation work. Commenters don’t need to sign in, but they have to provide a valid email address (which will be visible only to you, not to readers).
This way, commenters can be identified by your no matter what name they choose, and you don’t need to keep moderating the ones you trust (the certified non-trolls in your book, as it were). In other words, the comments of people you trust will appear immediately and you can read them later (when and if you have time). The others go into moderation. If a trusted non-troll becomes repeatedly trollish, you can put him in moderation for a while until he reforms.
Needless to say, what constitutes trollish behaviour is entirely up to you, the owner of the blog. No need to justify your choices.
This should reduce the amount of moderation work you need to do, and improve your health.
Germany is not so excited about having Ukraine as a full member of the EU: “Ukraine has fallen to 144th in a corruption-perceptions ranking by Berlin-based Transparency International from 107th in 2005. That made it the worst European country last year.”
How Bulgaria’s Bank Run Affects Ukraine’s European Dream – Bloomberg
I would introduce grading system. Everyone’s contribution get judged for its content, effort, etc. Even the fellow with a triple f**k was rather sincere, although he didn’t elaborate on what caused his anger. We can discuss what system of grading is acceptable for this blog and what needs to be returned to a sender for additional effort, as in Pass/Fail system. And we grade your contribution :-). I wonder if Socratic method is adaptable for blog sites?
Spiral
Dearest friend, I think it is totally irrelevant what people comment or have to say, whether trolls or not. I don’t think there is a need to accommodate comments or to administer, monitor or moderate them. They are frankly irrelevant. And this is a direct communication rather than a comment and would be better if only you saw it and any other contribution, comment or critique anyone else wishes to raise. There is not need to accommodate any of these here as no-one else has a need to read them. Keep up the good work.
Abel – South Africa
PS. Do you think that the MSM are swayed by letters to the Editor? I don’t think so…
Found The Vineyard as I needed new sources for truth. Given up on main stream Western Media. If the trolls are getting organised it means you are scaring those that have to hide the truth at any cost. You have a lot more friends than enemies in this blog. Many, like me, have been silent (up until now). I agree with no more anonomous comments.
I always post as “anonymous” but, if The Saker starts a proper discussion board, I wouldn’t mind registering. In fact, I’d volunteer with moderation help. I think I have a very good “b.s” and “troll” detector and I see tremendous benefits in having a real time, no delay discussions flow. We can set up a very strict policy/rules for registering and banning/flagging offending posters. For starters, everybody should write an essay explaining why they would want to participate in this board, this essay should be accessible to everyone through profile, that way we can see if the poster is consistent with his philosophy and the philosophy of this site…etc.
michael houston wrote…
“…those that are new would have to submit their responses and ask for or apply for membership..”
ZeroHedge.com, that has been my browser homepage for about ten years, utilizes something similar. Note…
“Standard approval time ranges from four (4) to seven (7) days.”
…at its ‘Create new account’ instructions.
Speaking of which, I (‘ChiangMai’ there) promoted this blog there yesterday (in context), as I do at every Ukraine post there and many other places, by excerpting posts from here in three different comments at Pro-Russian Rebels Flee Slavyansk After “Massive Shelling”, Demand Putin’s Help To Avoid “Genocide”
Mr. saker
don´t fall on the usual mistake.
When one starts censor, targets apear everywhere, in the end one find it self alone or full of sheep.
Is that the objective?
Plurality is empowerment.
Just saying.
This is why we can’t have nice things.
Humans are just not capable of behaving when a certain critical mass threshold is passed. They think they’re funny if they deliberately destroy any meaningful discussion with their ignorance, or, as Snowden have let us know, by designn I’ve met too many of the former category in my life to have hope that humanity as a whole is capable of achieving anything, only individuals.
The only solution in my experience is mercilessly banning their comments until they exhaust their patience and move on.
I didn’t think to mention in my previous comment regarding ZeroHedge.com (ZH) 4-7 day delay from registering to first comment accepted:
In addition to, like Disqus, threading comments, ZH utilizes a simple up / down comment rating system (visible only to logged-in registrants) with prominent buttons ( green ^, red opposite arrow). Unlike Disqus, both ratings are anonymous, I suppose in order that pointless boring puerile spats between commenters don’t break out.
I recall a system on another blog I frequented years ago that automatically hid comments that received too many down-ratings.
Deciding not to publish is not censorship. Your blog is a private space, like your house, deciding on any basis, with no obligation to explain yourself, on who you feel good about publishing is equivalent to showing an obnoxious person the door. Another thing is budgeting your time. Maybe you could spend a half hour moderating, any more would be unfair to the rest of us. How about having some of the above commenters prescreen comments for you, maybe just have them rank the comments so you can concentrate on the good ones.
The psychopaths that believe they own us are on a campaign to eliminate coherent points of view. Stay strong on your personal frame of reference. The blog is not, thank the Universe, part of the MSM.
herb
On a lighter though OT note,
http://rt.com/news/170764-cnn-map-ukraine-fail/
Hi, Saker, I’m a volunteer admin and moderator of an investigative web site with a very high reach, editor of another, have my own blog and websites, and, prolific commenter on matters political, spiritual, and social.
So my advice, FWIW, is for you to determine what is your mission statement/goal? To present information on the situation in Ukraine/Russian policies in the region, or, a broader political commentary?
What platform do you want to use? A dedicated website requires a steep learning curve and someone with tech skills to keep it running. Blogger is very simple to use, but I hope you already registered the name on Word Press and the .com and .org designations, or someone can steal it.
The comments section allows feedback, creates a feeling of inclusion, interactivity, community. Please do keep it as is, just moderate the trolls out and don’t take their comments personally.
Some people prefer to be anonymous, and most are NOT trolls. I suggest letting the community deal with them, as it’s the comments that make this a dynamic, not static site, where people can express their opinions, some of which are even helpful and OT :)
Do you use Google Analytics to check your site stats and readership?
Do post links to blogs and sites you like and recommend, try to get them to link to you.
And again, why don’t you have a “Share” button, so we can easily re post your articles to Twitter, Reddit, Digg, Google+, Facebook? Even if you don’t want to open accounts on those platforms, we can do the work for you by giving you wider readership.
Dear Saker
Don’t despair. The attacks prove that what you’re doing is effective. Look on it as a badge of achievement.
As a counter, have a look at the excellent advice here: washingtonsblog.com/2012/08/the-15-rules-of-internet-disinformation.html . It does work, I’ve used it in previous skirmishes on the Guardian’s comments pages. My favourite is “oh, that’s number xx on the list (link to WB’s article so everyone can recognise their tactic) isn’t it? Nice try but must do better. How much are they paying you? They won’t be happy at this waste of money”. Don’t take them seriously and don’t get emotional. It’s the price you pay for telling the truth nowadays. Treat them as stupid children who can be pitied and ignored.
P.S. probably best not to publish this. Leave it a a “nice” surprise for them.
Here is translation in English of:
http://www.advance.hr/vijesti/otvoreno-pismo-sergeja-glazjeva-ukrajinskim-akademicima-radujete-se-gubitku-suvereniteta-sto-je-rezultat-sporazuma-s-eu-to-moze-samo-rob-koji-pati-od-kompleksa-inferiornosti-i-ne-cijeni-ukrajinski-identitet/
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Enjoy your loss of sovereignty, as a result of your agreement with EU. Only a slave, suffering from inferiority complex, is capable of it, and he does not value Ukrainian identity