Some of you have understood my reference to Chechnia in the latest SITREP has an indication of the kind of tactics the Russian military would use if/when the Kremlin decides to intervene in the Ukraine.
That is not at all what I meant and I apologize for misleading you.
What I meant was to say that in extreme circumstances Putin was willing to use extreme measures. But let me reassure you all – the Donbass is not Chechnia, the Ukrainians are not Chechens and, most importantly, the Russian military of 2014 is not the Russian military of 1999. In fact, I can guarantee you that these tactics will not be used in the Ukraine. Such massive use of firepower is the sign of a weak military, once which does not trust the training of its own soldiers, one which has poor command, control and intelligence and one which uses the only thing it still has: a big fist. Such tactics are effective but crude and if the Russian military used them in the Ukraine it would result in a outraged explosion of protest in Russia.
Without going into details, what the Russians would do if they intervened in the Ukraine would be to disorganize Ukie communication and create a sense of chaos (for the Ukie command). By “going for the eyes” they would transform what is currently a more or less coherent Ukie attack force into many small and completely confused ones. Though that phase could include a few bomb/missile strikes or sabotage, most of it would be non-lethal. One the junta is blinded, the Russians would essentially engage the Ukie commanders in a “surrender or else” dialog. The vast majority will at this point gladly surrender. Those few who will chose “or else” will be destroyed in precision strikes. That’s it. I do not expect WWII tank battles to take place. Cities like Dnepropetrovsk or Kharkov will not be turned into Grozny in 2000.
The Ukie military machine is extremely weak and all it will take is hitting a few well-chosen trigger points, and then it will collapse. Again, judging by Crimea and by what has happened so far in the Donbass, the vast majority of the Ukrainian officers will be *immensely relived* to be “defeated”. By the way, the Russians went out of their way to treat the Ukrainian forces in Crimea with utmost respect – both those who did surrender and those who decided to hold out and be evacuated. Putin personally issued a decree not only to treat all the Ukrainian military personnel with professional courtesy but even to treat the *symbols* of Ukrainian statehood (flags, insignia, etc.) with utmost respect. The same will happen this time.
The Ukies made “prisoner” will be offered to join the Russian military, their pensions will quadruple overnight, their ranks and diplomas recognized and most will even be left in command of their own units.
I have to say that this idyllic situation will not apply to the neo-Nazis and assorted oligarch-paid thugs. Those will be killed, ruthlessly and with no mercy. Any Right Sector thug or foreign mercenary captured will get a 10min “conversation” somewhere behind an APC and then will be executed. But that will be a very small amount of cases about which we will probably never learn anyway.
I honestly don’t know how far the Russian military intervention would go, it might well be confined to only the easternmost part of the Ukraine (where the current Ukrainian attack forces are concentrated). That really depends on the reaction in the West. If the US/NATO continue to refuse to negotiate the Russians might push further, but not beyond the Dniepr.
Remember the 08.08.08 war: its purpose was never to seize and hold land, it was to take Saakshvili’s ulgy toys away. Once the Georgian military basically disappeared the Russians withdrew. The same will happen in the Ukraine. The Russian will destroy the repressive machine of the junta in Kiev and then stop.
Think *forces*, not territory.
Russia cannot and has no desire to “occupy” the Ukraine. All that talk about a new Afghanistan in the Ukraine is absolute nonsense. As soon as they are done, they will withdraw most of their forces and they will help the locals get organized. Only if the US/NATO do something truly fantastically stupid, like sending in NATO forces into the western Ukraine will the Russians establish a forward security buffer aimed at keeping the AngloZionists on the West side of the Dneipr. But – honestly – I don’t see the US/NATO/EU trying that kind of crap, not because of the Russian military, but because that would mean that they would own all of the worst and poorest part of the rump-Ukraine.
Does anybody really think that the EU wants to own Banderastan?
I sure don’t.
Okay, I hope that this clarification has been useful and I apologize again for giving the impression that the Russian military was prepared to use the same tactics as it did in Chechnia.
Kind regards,
The Saker
Carlos says he has been advised by “agents and military of European countries” to take his family out of Ukraine. He is taking his Ukrainian wife and daughter to Spain tomorrow. Then he will come back as ne needs to keep making a living.
There were some pro-Kiev people in Spain who apparently called for his elimination because of his tweets. He was well protected by military commands that work next to him, are aware of his tweets, and feed him information, but with the turn things are taking he feels he has to take his family out of there.
Slavyansk today:
http://youtu.be/zNk3SUfIX4M
Most of us who are reading this or other similar sites don’t look at the official line.
Because my home page is yahoo.com, this morning I found this interesting article:
http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-shows-paradigm-shift-ukraine
how about this?
That ATC Carlos, at Kiev’s airport, says that the radars were “blinded” all over the Ukraine, not just in Kiev. The longest period of “blindness” he measured was 22 minutes.
I wonder what kind of technology is capable of this and who has it?
Before the massacre in Odessa started:
He claims 4 of them are wounded and he is shoot in the leg.
They claim to be from Odessa, but the language is clearly west-ukrainian.
“It is more of us but we can do nothing, let the police give us the corridor and we will do the thing”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VgiTb3ed65w
They were given the corridor, the massacre started
Do you recognize the “wounded”? It is he, shooting those who try escape from burning building despite his “wounded leg” he jumps pretty well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7bHHDYpvW4&feature=player_embedded
N-V
From: https://twitter.com/pmarsupia
Pro-russians in Odessa are taking the police building. They are outraged at the government’s accusations that they set the trade union building on fire themselves.
On CIA, FBI agents ‘advising Ukraine government’
http://news.yahoo.com/cia-fbi-agents-advising-ukraine-government-report-101508429.html
Now to the source: I can’t believe it! Written by the night editorial staff of the WELT (Axel Springer Media Concern), the most atlanticist newspaper in Germany. Was the censor asleep?
Remarkable is the sneering tone of voice:
02:38, Nikolaus Doll: CIA und FBI “beraten” ukrainische Regierung
„Hätten wir uns gleich denken können, dass die CIA in Kiew ihre Finger im Spiel hat. Offenbar wird die ukrainische Übergangsregierung in Kiew von Dutzenden Spezialisten des US-Geheimdienstes CIA und der US-Bundespolizei FBI beraten. Die Beamten sollten im Auftrag der US-Regierung dabei helfen, die Rebellion im Osten des Landes zu beenden, berichtet „Bild am Sonntag“ unter Berufung auf deutsche Sicherheitskreise. Putin wird das natürlich längst wissen und entsprechend reagieren. Diese Art von Eingreifen der USA ist nicht gerade geeignet, die Russen still zu halten. Die fühlen sich eh schon umzingelt. Unten ein guter Film der zeigt, wie die CIA arbeitet.“
http://www.welt.de/politik/article127589470/Zahl-der-Todesopfer-der-Sewol-steigt-auf-242.html
And it was BILD of the Axel Springer Media Concern who printed the news first. Really first. Before RT and even before Voice of Russia.
http://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/nachrichtendienste-usa/dutzende-agenten-von-cia-und-fbi-beraten-kiew-35807724.bild.html
http://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachrichten.de/2014/05/04/cia-und-fbi-beraten-regierung-in-kiew/
“Die Tatsache, dass die Bild-Zeitung diese Meldung bringt und dass diese unbestätigte Meldung von der Nachrichtenagentur Reuters verbreitet wird, könnte auf eine gewisse Distanzierung der Amerika-freundlichen Medien von der Regierung in Kiew hindeuten.”
What’s going on in the press? Even New York Times going soft on “Russian terrorism”?
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/04/world/europe/behind-the-masks-in-ukraine-many-faces-of-rebellion.html?ref=europe&_r=0
“Does anybody really think that EU wants to own Banderistan?”
They already own Kosovo and large swaths of the Balkans so east Ukraine would be busineas usual. I don’t underestimate the stupidity and greed of the West.
Thanks for your insights, Saker. The Western MSM is all singing off the same sheet and but for your blog and several other trusted sources we would be largely unaware of the obscene parody being played out in Ukraine. Nazism resurgent after nearly 70 years – and all thanks to the Americans. Is Russia fated to smash the fascist beast a second time? Even Kissinger spelled out a federalised win-win solution last week but the US is sticking to the Zbig playbook. Truly, it is time these nonagenarian devils were disposed of. They are possibly responsible for more violent deaths of innocent people worldwide than Hitler and Stalin combined. Putin, can and will, move very carefully, he is a consumate player and very well advised. Certainly he stands metaphorically head and shoulders above the so called Western ‘leaders’…..they must be worried because the demonisation of this shrewd and decisive man has reached fever pitch. I read his transcripts with great interest, there is much humanity there. A raving zealot he is definitely not, and ,importantly, he has his country behind him. They are well aware of 26 million dead within living memory. I watch this situation unfold with great interest and await your updates.
@ kalithea–
A little too much self-referential navel-gazing for me.
What a mess? Now it is getting critical for the US.
See the following link: http://www.bild.de/politik/ausland/nachrichtendienste-usa/dutzende-agenten-von-cia-und-fbi-beraten-kiew-35807724.bild.html
My translation from the german newspaper article:
“On behalf of the U.S. Government: CIA and FBI agents advise Kiev
The Ukrainian provisional Government in Kiev is advised by dozens of specialists of the US intelligence agency CIA and the US Federal Bureau according to German security officials who spoke to BILD am SONNTAG……”
@kalithea wrote,
“Zionism is with the Empire against Russia; because Zionism rides the Empire’s back…”
Exactly the way I interpret Revelation Chapter 17:
‘There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. 5 The name written on her forehead was a mystery:
Babylon the Great
the Mother of Prostitutes
and of the Abominations of the Earth…
18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”’
please get this fact right-though Russia wants to delude herself
2012.
Russia delusional that its real enemy anglos-aka west-will invite rus to share loot from the world.
so what relationship you expect from anglos who consider you putin as enemy and russia as prize 2get?
when situation is2 confront criminal activities of anglos -then protocol and law must be set aside.
russian request 2interpol2capture english fugitive dismissed within 48 hrs.-rus takes 6wk.abt snow?
treacherous rus-chin betray their allies like Nk, iran,libya to please anglos enemies. rus-chin next victims
us,uk will lure Nk away from chin saying ” look chin betrayed you”-aka maynmbar scneraio where chin lost.
then rus-chin will have no neutral buffer like Nk opposed to usa/uk onslaught.this stupid lavrov did.
stupid lavrov is weakling bootlicker of anglos-real disgrace like medvedev and yeltsin. iran learn lessons of being self depend.
good luck 2russia. has Rus got anything passed by security council which was not preapproved or opposed by anglos?
sergie ivanov the former defence minister must be made Fm or primeminister . kick lavrov and
Medvedev out.
It’s as if the Russians are still unable to grasp the full extent of US/NATO ill-will and duplicity.
ENGLISH RACE ARE NOT EUROPEANS THEY ARE MONGROL ANGLOSAXON BORN OF NEAANDERTHALS AND PHONECIANS .
The england controlled USA is the criminal mafia with an army. Snowden exposed it. The Saudi-qatar petrodollar finances the mafia.
anglosaxon race directed by england is the main evil of world
2012
“The recent US-backed wave of revolution sweeping the Middle East is just the beginning of a greater move to dislodge Iran and begin regaining ground against Russia and China after several years of disappointing results geopolitically. The ultimate goal in mind is to force Russia and China to accept their role as “responsible stakeholders” in the unipolar Anglo-American “new world order.” The unipolar world of Anglo-American financier domination requires that all competition be eliminated, all nations become interdependent, and most importantly, all governments conform to the globalists’ model of “civil society” which in turn answers to centralized global institutions.
Understanding the overarching plan reveals the danger of being apathetic or complacent about the current unrest in the Middle East. It will surely spread, and depending on the Shanghai Cooperative’s response and their determination to remain the masters of their own destiny, greater confrontation may ensue.
“
by paul craig.
2012
Looking at Medvedev grovelling before Obama was a sickening sight-does Russia not want to learn any lesson that she is in great danger(within next 5 years)of being destroyed by the anglos enemies?
Obma who made huge propaganda against Putin wants putin to understand that Obama is running for elelction so sould help him in re-election!! Talk of hubris and arrogance and stupidity!!
This treacherous Medvedev msut be captured and tried for treason so should be lavrov indiot of a foren misnter.
Suppose anglos give that assurance then what? it means Russia will have less public relation point to pursue what Russia should-to protect herself she must have not only defensive but offensive weapons developed. That all will be stopped and Russia will have to live weakling on assurance of anglos who are known cheaters throughout their short miserable history.
Not only that this will also show to the thirld world that they better become anglos colonies again because Russia is too weak to stand for herself let alone for other friendly countries.
Why are losers always a losers?
Why cannot they stand up and be counted.
Russia had a lot of prior warnign which She CHOSE to ignore to delude herself.
2005 “
“What we’re getting today is a pattern of private armies, eliminating state power, replacing this with private armies controlled by large corporations such as the Halliburton complex, which is taking the place of the military forces. These are the policies which are inside the United States government. These are the policies associated with Cheney today, to eliminate the military. They don’t care if they lose the United States Army; they’ll transfer the power to private forces, such as Halliburton. They’re destroying the rest of the world economically; they hope to establish an empire.
This is the real issue. And the threats to Russia, China, and India in Asia, are the real issues. Because, if the United States defends the right of Russia, China, and India to have national sovereignty, then we can unite the world around the idea of restoring the principle of national sovereignty, and can eliminate these evils. If we do not understand this, if we think that the issue is Iran, or we think the issue is Iraq, then we are fools. Because these are merely the doorways into the major crisis.
“
how medvedev ressurected nato
“The Western version is that in the middle of the G-8 summit, Medvedev suddenly declared that “Gaddafi has forfeited
legitimacy” and Russia plans to “help him go”. But Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov insisted: “It wasn’t a Russian initiative. It was a request, an appeal from President Sarkozy, from President [Barack] Obama, from other participants.”
The Kremlin is obviously eager to inject a fresh lease of bonhomie into Russia’s “reset” with the US. Medvedev’s meeting with Obama at Deauville failed to resolve the differences over deployment of missile defense system in Europe. The Kremlin is uneasy that the West is coolly ignoring Russian protestations about the intervention in Libya and a growing discord with the US is the last thing Medvedev wants.
A credibility problem
However, Russia’s u-turn displeases China. Beijing feels that Moscow led it up the garden path and left it alone. Russia virtually dumped the “joint cooperation” project on the Middle East and North Africa that Lavrov and his Chinese counterpart Yang Jiechi worked out at their meeting in Moscow last month as a new dimension to Sino-Russian strategic partnership.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/MF04Ad02.html
Russia’s Libya role irks China
By M K Bhadrakumar
Russia went to the Group of Eight (G-8) summit meeting at Deauville last week as an inveterate critic of the “unilateralist” Western intervention in Libya, but came away from the seaside French resort as a mediator between the West and Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi. The United States scored a big diplomatic victory in getting Moscow to work for regime change in Libya.
No sooner than he got back to Moscow, President Dmitry Medvedev ordered his special envoy to Africa Mikhail Margelov to travel to Libya “in the nearest time”. Margelov is liked in the West and by Libyan rebels. He admitted, “Gaddafi’s future is the ‘most delicate topic’.”
“Secretary of State Colin Powell called the attacks “an act of war” and President Bush confirmed in an evening televised address to the Nation that he would “make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts and those who harbor them”. Former CIA Director James Woolsey pointed his finger at “state sponsorship,” implying the complicity of one or more foreign governments. In the words of former National Security Adviser, Lawrence Eagleburger, “I think we will show when we get attacked like this, we are terrible in our strength and in our retribution.”
http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO109C.html
Putin in Chechyna used the same playbook as the Neocons after 911, but when Putin does it it is ruthless, when the US does it it is a sign of strength. go figure
@ Th Svedberg 04 May, 2014 05:50
The Pravy sector & Svoboda militias, like wahabi/ salafis have crossed a threshold: they are not part of humanity anymore!
Their best description IMO, according to Tolkien, is Orcs.
The ethical problem remains though: deluded young women, infatuated with some pravy militiamen, prepare some molotov coctails, resulting in mass murder.
But this pattern (NATO using terrorist, nazis, etc. HAS to broken up!) Very sorry about the girls…
“Rowan Berkeley on 04 May, 2014 13:42 said…
The hebrew word “lehem” does not mean meat, but bread. ……
…. But nobody non-jewish seems to try to learn hebrew. Except me. they don’t encourage it.”
Dear Rowan,
In your haste you missed that during Prince of Peace Jesus (as) times, Hebrew was a dead language and like I said earlier, it was revived from Arabic during the 19th Century.
Also, during Jesus times the land was Palestine, not Jewish and the people spoke Aramaic, which a sister language of Arabic. Even Jesus and his disciples spoke Aramaic to each and not Hebrew as it was a dead language.
Thus, Bethlehem is an Aramaic/Arabic word and not a Hebrew word. “Beth” means, “Home/House”. And “Lehem” means, “Meat”. Thus, House of Meat.
You will also erroneously claim that the Prince of Peace Jesus (as) was a Jew. This a 200 years old phenomenon and belongs to Hasbara.
Jesus (as)is from Holy House of David and he is from Banu Israel (Jacob). He is from the 12 Tribes of Israel.
He is not from the Tribe of Judea, which annihilated the other 11 Tribes.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
P.S. Are you part of Hasbara in disguise?
To this Anonymous statement:
“If by this time next year the world thinks that West Ukrainian nationalists made a mistake by allying themselves with Nuland and co., that would have a lot of positive consequences worldwide. “
Two small thoughts. One, that matters are unfolding now to make even western Ukranians wonder deeply about this alliance and question its legitimacy.
My second thought is that it was desperation indeed that brought ‘Nuland and co.’ into such an alliance. If these thugs were the only ones willing to accept their help, what does that say about the success of such an operation?
It’s not going to take a year, Anonymous. It is happening now. And those who love more their fellow man grieve the most for the sufferings inflicted by a small violence-prone group needlessly empowered, and want those sufferings to end.
I am holding onto those positive consequences that are happening now, in the midst of the thrashing about of the dying dragon of empire.
‘There were some pro-Kiev people in Spain’…
There are so many Ukrainian residents in southern Spain (Malaga) that there is a consulate there.
T1
“Rowan Berkeley on 04 May, 2014 02:35 said…
This is what you have overlooked: what you say does not apply to Israelis, whether actual Mossad employees or purported freelancers and even mercenaries. If they are Israelis, they will quietly be returned to Israel, unhurt. You know that, but your conditioning prevents you from seeing it. “
Dear Rowan,
I am becoming more and more sure that you are part of Hasbara. You consider Israel Mighty and the People Chosen. Yes, the Palestinians are meek. It is the meek who will inherit the earth.
For the last 70 years, Mighty Israel is demolishing the Palestinians. What do the Palestinians do? They keep on turning the other cheek.
And, guess what it does to the Moral Fiber of Israel? It gets destroyed. In these 70 years, you will never see despair in the Palestinians. Why? Because for the last 70 years the Palestinians are the winners for as they know that they cause is just.
Yes, you see despair in Israelis, as they know their days are numbered due to their rotten Moral Fiber and the final victory is for the Palestinians. Even John Kerry said the same recently.
God has promised victory to the meek Palestinians. Rejoice the Kingdom of Prince of Peace Jesus (as) will come as promised by God.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
http://original.antiwar.com/Richard_Morchoe/2014/05/02/deja-russia-all-over-again/
We can mouth off about Syria all we want and not have to worry about them coming after us with the Big One. North Korea has it, but with them the Big One is little more than a cherry bomb with fallout.
With Russia, there may be a cost. That cost may be me affectionately calling my future grandkids crispy critters. Should we take it seriously? Forbes national security contributor Loren Thompson seems to see the possibility. There is much to read in his April 24, 2012 article, but let’s go with this, if the pushing and shoving led to troops on the ground,
“Whichever side found itself losing would have to weigh the drawbacks of losing against those of escalating to the use of tactical nuclear weapons. Moscow would have to contemplate the possibility of a permanent enemy presence near its heartland, while Washington might face the collapse of NATO, its most important alliance. In such circumstances, the use of “only” one or two tactical nuclear warheads to avert an outcome with such far-reaching consequences might seem reasonable – especially given the existence of relevant capabilities and supportive doctrine on both sides.”
We probably can’t just say no harm no foul at that point.
I see the Ukrainian army has surrounded Slovyans’k. This kind of siege tactic is the same tactic that the militaries of USA, Canada, France, Brazil, Argentina, and Jordan used against Cite Soleil:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25Mf7Lv5Qo8
They would often shoot babies and unarmed civilians in the face in forays into Cite Soleil. Given that the Ukrainian army is being supported by these forces, don’t be surprised in seeing such tactics.
Johan Meyer
Old auntie,
This is hysterical but somehow I thought you were of German extraction and living in Wisconsin! But you do know the answer to the question you are begging, right? I wish I could say it was better here, but it’s not.
juliana, 16:07
Yes.
Mohamed,
Thank you — that is just fascinating. Are you familiar with Kamal Salibi? I read his work years ago and a lot of it made a lot of sense. I think I’ll dig around more on this but it probably won’t be for a while as I’ve got a few other books that are requiring a whole lot of thought! I will get to it though; it’s just sooo fascinating. And that feminine noun thing is very interesting — I know there were gods and goddesses in the folk religions before monotheism; perhaps ilah/eloh denote a god that has feminine as well as masculine characteristics — I mean after the idea of one God came into being? Just a wild guess, of course, so probably just. plain. wrong.
Also, re: Rowan Berkeley, you might check out his blog, http://niqnaq.wordpress.com/ . I don’t think he’s very pro-Israel! ;~)
A bit off topic, but very important info about how Odessa massacre had been planned well in advance and protesters were shot to death INSIDE the Trade Unions House:
http://mikle1.livejournal.com/4081923.html http://yurasumy.livejournal.com/21571.html
http://vvv-ig.livejournal.com/690116.html
It would be great if you could translate and repost this information here for English speakers since it will most definitely NEVER reach MSM :((( Please help spread the word!
I absolutely do not and can not accept the idea that Russia will ever leave Odessa to Banderastan!
Dniepr may be some kind of “natural border”, but I can not imagine Russia without Odessa! Not before this happened, not afterwards. Odessa is a Russian city!
Regards from Serbia.
green, 19:35
Wow. This information is really important to get out.
Could you, or do you know someone who could, do a “real” (i.e., not automated and therefore somewhat smoother) translation into English? It would be easier to spread around to (lazy, uninformed) Americans if it read a bit more clearly than what I can get from Google Translate.
green,
It’s me again — I got so carried away by those URLs I never read the last part of what you wrote! :((((( feel a little stupid here, and I’m truly sorry. Lord, those people are monsters!
Cosh says:
Three things are necessary to wage war. Money. More money, and even MORE money.
The US is functionally bankrupt. Russia has been dumping dollars recently. Economy at war.
The US was defeated by an essentially peasant army in Vietnam. It never faces anything that can’t be rolled over easily with minimum casualties. Follow the money on this…
kalithea said…04 May, 2014 05:49
Agree about the MOA stealth zionist S.W.A.R.M., I’d say at least half of the comment writers are part of it. Many hardly write comments at all, but when the S.W.A.R.M. wants somebody targeted (and it’s always an anti-zionist type), they show up to damn the person. I’ve seen how this network of stealth zionists operate for years and on several sites and it’s always the same recognisable tactics. They also aggressively stalk people across forums and even to the extent of covertly visiting their “enemies” at where they work and live (I’ve had that happen several times over the years). Gilad Atzmon has written often on their stalking of him and how they co-opt sites, orgs and movements. Their dedication to their “job” has convinced me many are at least active sayanim, if not more involved with Israel. At MOA, S.W.A.R.M. are the site monitors, “b”, Bernhard, the owner, is one of them. Which is why that group is allowed to abuse anybody they choose there.
What do you think about this?
http://napaki.livejournal.com/100072.html
The survivors of the Odessa massacre tell that there were more than 116 (!) people killed INSIDE the Trade Unions House, including at least 5 kids (!!!). They were mostly women and elderly who had been camping on the plaza near there for weeks ans held only peaceful demonstrations :((( The police is planning to carry the bodies out in the next 2 or so days so as to not draw extra attention. According to official version 30-40 people died there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7DLMvsHmcI
http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/ – all fresh news here
Everyone, please download and save the videos and repost them, youtube is deleting evidence!!!
This evening (Sunday) there was a demonstration in Berlin “against the fascist murder in Odessa”. Obviously one of those killed in Odessa hat personal friends in Berlin. Today’s world is small.
http://nemetico.wordpress.com/2014/05/04/aufruf-zur-demo-gegen-die-faschistischen-morde-in-odessa-4-mai-18-uhr-u-bhf-kottbusser-tor/
About 800 participants:
http://www.redglobe.de/europa/ukraine/9702-berlin-fuer-eine-antifaschistische-ukraine
Eyewitness report from a doctor in Odessa on facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1375136832773724&id=100008322601683&fref=nf
‘Anonymous said…
What do you think about this?
http://napaki.livejournal.com/100072.html‘
It’s a lie, don’t believe it. I guess it posted by some brainwashed ukrainian who don’t know what is going on.
Извините, что по-русски, у меня плохо с английским.
На одной из фотографий здесь
http://vvv-ig.livejournal.com/690116.html
видно, что у женщины расстегнута ширинка. То есть ее, скорее всего, насиловали.
Обратите внимание там же на комментарии внизу:
“Вопрос: почему у большинства трупов согнутые в локтях поднятые руки и запрокинутые головы?
Ответ: большинство трупов находятся не там, где погибли люди. Тащили за руки…”
“Теперь понятно почему люди выбрасывались из окон.
Не от огня они выбрасывались, а от такой насильственной смерти.”
Несомненно, “пожар” был подстроен, чтобы скрыть отвратительное массовое убийство.
If you’ll watch video posted there, you will hear how pregnant woman cries in horror while thugs have killing her with a cord.
I’m so angry!
@ Old Auntie & Nora,
The news about the FBI/CIA ‘assisting’ the Kiev thugs originated from within Germany.
Remember Nuland’s audio tape [Fuck the EU] being ‘released?’ Who benefited from it?
It looks to me that on the European content, there’s only one big, solid running engine left; Germany.
I think that, like many, I knew very little about Germany and Germans, because I grew up with lampshades, shrunken heads and soap; aka Nazis.
My [biological] dad warned me to ‘beware of propaganda used by all sides…’ It’s darn hard to no be fooled by professional traitors. The ones pretending to be on your side, but in actuality are part of a group of ‘minders.’
I was there when BOT TAK got booted from MoA. To find out who the site’s KaPos are, I normally mention the holocaust to find out who’s who and what there real agenda is.
I don’t mind disagreement or different views, but I am always taken aback by the swiftness of those who see themselves as ‘free thinkers’ or ‘liberals’ perhaps, to ask for banning/silencing those they don’t agree with or whose views and ideologies aren’t symmetrical to their own.
Here is some food for thought about Germany Justice for Germans.
In way too many places, innocent men, women and children are dying and the ‘world community’ is caught up in mundane shenanigans, bitching about immoral phrases or other <a href=”http://rt.com/news/154760-kerry-attacks-rt-propaganda/>propaganda BS</a>
Right now some 1-2 thousands Right Sector thugs bused in from other cities gathered around the Trade Unions House, most likely to carry out 60-80 bodies left there, to hide the true number of victims and the fact that they have gunshot wounds, some raped, tortured, dismembered.
Junta-appointed Odessa mayor fired police chief and supposedly appointed a man from the Right Sector, Ivan Katerinchuk, as a new chief. If so, his primary goal will be finding and silencing/disposing of all survivors of the massacre so as the truth won’t go out.
http://putnik1.livejournal.com/3097915.html
A plea for help: some provided links lead to page with languages I don’t even recognize. Yes, I can throw it into an automated translator, but how much gets lost in translation?
I’m not here to promote the English language, but as this site is English based, might it therefore be safe to assume that all visitors understand that language? Could you help individuals like myself out by translating transcripts [into English] to the best of your knowledge, so everyone is ‘in the know?’
Thanks in advance.
Russian AK,
Presumably you didn’t need Google Translate but I’ll tell you, both the quality and quantity of those pictures are a bit too… professional. Also wide-ranging — we’re really supposed to believe that one person with that good a camera (and skills) just happened to be out for a walk and see absolutely everything that happened? I wonder how many people actually were embedded, and I’m also wondering if this isn’t going to be used as “proof” of pro-Russian guilt by the usual suspects. Yes, he/they throw out a couple of caveats (I think), but bottom line, I don’t buy it either. I just think it’s a professional job rather than just some poor schlub who happened to be in all the right places at the perfect time for some really well-executed photographs.
Nora,
My browser load only one foto and now this page is “not found”, so I can’t tell how professional it is. I don’t know if this page really deleted or simply blocked. Anyway, when I started reading this page previously, I quickly dropped it because I tired of all that lies about Russians and Ukraine in the press and blogs. I was shocked by the previos article with murder scenes, and I was shocked earlier when I heard how those thugs commented with joy that they killed “colorado bugs” and “russian pigs”. I mourn with Odessa and cry for those poor people and their families. I know how painful it is to lost someone you love and feel pain right now.
So I was paying little attention to how professional foto is. But I think you are right. I suspected something like that but not sure because I didn’t saw all that pictures and didn’t read it to the end.
My heart is bleeding. I just want peace on earth and all people living long and happy life…
Russian AK,
I am truly sorry for your loss, and like you am bleeding inside for everyone affected by these horrors. I forced myself to look, to give the only kind of honor I can to those innocents. And I’ll tell you, it was not easy, and literally gave me nightmares. But we can’t stop this, all we can do, I guess, is witness it, and grieve, and resolve to do whatever we can, once we figure out what that is!
green, I’ve just seen that grub ‘Yats’, Nudelburger’s pet poodle, on TV, and if they ever want to re-make Nosferatu, then he is the ‘man’. A couple of pointy teeth and ears, and you won’t remember Klaus Kinski or Max Schreck. How does the Real Evil Empire of Eternal Exceptionalism find these creatures, each one more hideous than the last?
kalithea, once, years ago, I Googled my nomme de folie, and discovered a number of hysterical Zionazi enclaves where they were ritually abusing me for Thought Crimes like thinking that Palestinians were human beings, that sort of ‘antisemitism’, and bragging of how they had ‘leaned on’ various MSM outlets to have me banned. I’ve been banned up hill and down dale for criticising Israel, although I always attempt to keep cool and note that it is the country and its elite that I despise, not the whole populace. Such declarations only invite other forms of abuse, for instance mentioning all the eminent Jews that I hold in the highest esteem, in particular, brings down torrents of abuse. Of course the Jews that I admire are generally the type that the Zionazis abuse as ‘self-hating Jews’, like Atzmon, Chomsky, Pappe et al.The Zionazis are, without doubt, the most aggressive zealots anywhere, filled with hatred, but that has been the observation of thousands of witnesses at least since Tacitus. I do not, of course, think that all Jews, or any other group, think alike, but the worst, the most chauvinistic, supremacist and hate-driven bigots anywhere, in my experience, are the Zionazis.
@Mohamed: The hebrew word “lehem” does not mean meat, but bread.
Lehem means bread and Bethlehem means the House of Bread because:
Jesus said, “I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger.” (John 6:35)
You like it or not, Jesus was a descendant of King David who belonged to the tribe of Judah.
“Has not the Scripture said that the Christ comes from the descendants of David, and from Bethlehem, the village where David was?” (John 7:42)
“For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests”.(Hebrews 7:14)
Hebrew might have been a dead language, but it still retained its liturgical use and the Scriptures were still written in Hebrew. Anyhow the sense of House of Bread is mentained in the Septuagint which adds ‘house of’ before Ephrata:
“But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are little to be among the clans of Judah,from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel,whose origin is from of old,from ancient days”. (Micah 5:2)
“And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for from you shall come a ruler who will govern my people Israel” (Matthew 2:6)
Thus this striking prophecy is as well-established as it is definite. Bethlehem means ‘House of Bread’ and Ephrata, ‘Fruitful’.
So the assertion that Jesus was a Judaeus is not Hasbara. Let’s not confuse the matters. And try to understand that the Quranic interpretations of Christian Scriptures are irrelevant. Scriptures
T1, pro-putschist neo-fascists in Spain marched in triumph after the Kiev junta took power. They are fellow thinkers, and Spain never cleansed itself of fascism after Franco. The neo-fascists in Spain control a number of ‘private security’ outfits, and will be a real menace when the Collapse comes.
old auntie, the reason that so many EU politicians love fascists (starting with the cappo di tutti cappi in Mordor on the Potomac) is that, if you scratch a Rightwinger, ‘conservative’ or whatever, you will find a fascist.Like attracts like.
Nora,
I tried again and again that link and finally saw those pictures. 148 fotos! I agree, it’s definitly professional job. Anti-russian propaganda, as always.
Here’s a refutation of the unspeakable disinfo at “http://napaki.livejournal.com/100072.html” (above):
Link: New facts about how local russians were burned
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act — George Orwell
Nora,
Thank you for your kind words. Now many of us feel so helpless. Here in Russia many people wants to help our Ukrainian brothers but they don’t know what to do. We desperately hope for the best…
War is evil and ugly.
http://youtu.be/zooDBxaopZY
It must be stopped.
Mr Putin and team, surely these pre-planned brutal murders of civilians in Odessa by Kievan thugs bussed in from elsewhere, must making your blood boil! You CANNOT sit still doing nothing. Sometimes there are few good choices. Decision making is about making trade-offs; Trade-offs which cause the least hardship overall and the greatest good in the immediate present and future.
There is a need to engage the Ukrainian military and its generals. If they are on the side of the people, they MUST decide if the illegitimate Kievan terroristic regime should be allowed remain in power and call the shots against the people using murderous brutish thugs and gangsters.
The Ukrainian military is an institution – a check on faied politicians. If they fail to act now against the illegitimate regime in Kiev, then they too fail the people of Ukraine. The ONUS is on them – the Generals. If they cannot rise up and provide the leadership so critically needed in this most dire hour of crisis, then it behoves upon Mr Putin, to provide this leadership to Ukrainians to put their house in order.
Move your military into Ukraine Mr Putin, and stop the unnecessary bloodshed there. Remove the ilegitimate terroristic regime in Kiev and fan yours and Ukrainian soldiers and police all over Ukraine and bordering countries to track down those despicable extreme Nazi killers and gangsters, and kill them. They have no place in a civilized world in the 21st century. Not especially in Ukraine, East Europe and the Russian world.
Dear Nora,
yes, I am of (partly) German extraction, living partly in Germany and partly in France. Same as my ancestors who often “switched sides”. Illoyal rabble, same as me. (There is a lot of family lore on my grandfather who didn’t want to fight on either side in World War I and how he tried to avoid this. Stories like you can find in “The Good Soldier Švejk”, more or less).
So, knowing both sides and having grown up in both counties (plus some time with relatives in Ireland “to learn English”) I don’t tend to idealize or diabolize either side.
And I can assure you all that Websides like http://justice4germans.com/ are pure and ignorant nonsense. Sorry, dear Daniel Rich, you probably mean well and it is always good to overcome prejudices, but the Webside “Justice for Germans” is not the place to do it. It only changes one set of prejudices against another set of prejudices.
Greetings from Old Europe
Old auntie
Mulga,
I’ve spent to southern Spain many times and have lived there for about a year. The Uke’s that I met thereeeee were mostly young people from the Carpathians who left home as illegals, looking for a way to make a little money, and were eventually granted residency by Spain a some years ago a a one time deal. HAven’t been back in about three years so I’m not current on affairs. I don’t know that they are politically active in local affairs; I dont know.
What I saw in Spainish culture was an attack on Christian values by I would group as ‘EU/Socialists’ and an active effort to re-ignite hatreds from the Civil War. There were effort to remove all traces of Franco and assign new blame for attrocities by Franco forces against the Soviet led International Brigades.
So there’s a mix of an economy destroyed by banking malfeasance with no means to recover except withdrawel from the EU,, promotion of homo marriage, and of all things: mandated school study of the ‘Holocost’. I wonder who is responsible?
T1
T1, the so-called ‘Holocaust’ is being made a de facto quasi-religion in the West. Of all the innumerable crimes of man against man one alone is singled out to be drummed into our heads, day after day. Of all the crimes of the Nazis, the genocides of Poles, Soviets, Roma etc, only the genocide of the Jews ever gets mentioned. I have heard perhaps one mention of the genocide of the Roma, and very few of the twenty million Soviet citizens (and then usually in the context of it being war)in decades, but literally thousands concerning the Jews.
Of the genocides of tens of millions of indigenous in the New Worlds, virtually none are ever mentioned. The genocide here of our Aborigines is often furiously denied by the Right-they simply ‘died out’. One researcher noted that there had been one scholarly investigation of the hecatomb in Belgian Congo, that killed ten million, in a period during which there had been 10,000 concerning ‘the Holocaust’.
When you ever are allowed to muse in Comments on this gargantuan disproportionality in concern and interest, if you are not straight away censored, the Zionazis instantly descend to spew ‘antisemite’ at you. No matter that you properly observe that the Nazi Judeocide was a gigantic crime that must never be allowed to recur. No, just equating the genocides of others with that of the Jews, as if the tragedies occurred to people with the same human value, the same rights to life and happiness, brings immediate abuse and censorship. Meanwhile the Holocaust Religion, no longer just an Industry as Norman Finkelstein noted and had his career destroyed over, grinds on. More movies, more novels, more radio shows, more abject groveling before those whose lives, plainly, and as explicitly asserted in their religious tracts, are so very much more important and sacred than ours.