1. The Cauldron has not been totally suppressed as of 08:19 10.08.2014. Scattered pockets of Uke troops are still resisting. They are promptly overwhelmed as Resistance conducts their sweeps of the mostly abandoned Uke positions in The Cauldron. Confirmed.
2. Of the over 700 Uke troops who ran to and crossed the Norovorossiya/RF border more than 60% have asked for asylum. The remainder have been repatriated to Ukraine by their request. Confirmed.
3. A bargain was made two days ago for some Uke units to leave The Cauldron. The bargain was the Ukes leave their undamaged vehicles, both transport and fighting vehicles. Buses were provided by the Ukes to meet this group and transport them away from The Cauldron. Confirmed.
4. Another group of Ukes in The Cauldron attempted an armed breakout. This group has a very high proportion of foreign fighters, mostly Polish but with ‘others’. Their column was attacked continuously during the attempt and lost significant numbers of troops and equipment. It is estimated that of almost 700 who made the attempt less than 225 managed to escape after abandoning their wounded during the fighting. The attempt and loses are confirmed.
5. It has been noticed that the continuous Uke bombardments of civilian living areas in villages, towns and cities are hitting the ‘ordinary workers and peasants’ districts. The very extensive wealthy areas are virtually untouched by the Uke arty.
6. With the number of Resistance observers in The Cauldron much intelligence information was gathered in addition to FAO activities. This information has been given to RF with extensive written information and large amounts of photographic evidence. This information is being used in the prosecution of now 9 Uke officers and 14 Uke NCO detained in Russian Federation for investigation of possible commission of war crimes involving the use of prohibited weapons against civilian targets in Novorossiya, the targeting of civilian areas in Novorossiya, the murder of 1 citizen of RF in Russia, the wounding of 7 citizens of RF in Russia and the destruction of both public and private property in Russian Federation. Confirmed.
7. Additional use of Tuchka U tactical ballistic missiles is unconfirmed. The use of the first 3 (or 4) Tuchka U systems resulted in the inability of the missiles to complete their course to their targets. Two very large impact craters have been observed in outlying villages in the Donetsk area since the first launches but it is unknown what caused the craters. While the surrounding houses were damaged by the impacts they do not show the massive damage that would have resulted from the air detonation of a Tuchka which would totally destroy any structure or living entity within 200 meters of the blast.
8. The overall situation in Novorossiya is very fluid as of 09:00 local time. The remains of the units from The Cauldron have now combined with the Uke units that were trying to break through Resistance ‘lines’ and relieve The Cauldron and are attacking originally north and have now realigned their attacks and are aimed directly at Lugansk Aerodrome some kilometers away. There is the possibility of another cauldron forming around Antratsyt. If this comes to pass it is doubtful any mercy will be shown to the Uke forces trapped inside. As of 10:05 local time there are no significant ground actions on the northwest lines of Novorossiya, all attacks are on the southeast areas.
9. While the tactical fighting is to and fro with many Resistance resounding successes the overall strategic situation for Novorossiya has not changed. Novorossiya is still vastly outnumbered by the Uke armed forces in manpower and catastrophically outnumbered in hardware regardless of the huge captures of Uke equipment by Novorossiya AF. The Ukes have the option of massing where they want and when they want and conducting forward movement operations as they please. The Novorossiya AF have not the manpower to fully man ‘the lines’ (neither do the Ukes) but Novorossiya AF are conducting defensive operations against an increasingly aggressive foe who is learning on the fly and learning well.
10. The political situation is still the same in regards to The West. RF is ‘forbidden’ to help Novorossiya with humanitarian aid or to position RF troops on or near the increasingly volatile borders between RF/Ukeland according to the US delegate to UN, Nato and Brussels. Moving the Aegis cruiser Vella Gulf in to the Black Sea is a non starter. The Black Sea is a Russian lake and any aggressive moves by the cruiser may well result in an incident that will have far reaching consequences, not the least of which will be to Vella Gulf himself.
11. The gradual introduction of NATO troops and equipment in to Ukeland proper is of far more import. The first official ‘non lethal’ equipment shipment from ‘Canada’ has arrived in Kharkov via Nato air transport on 09.08.2014. Another shipment is scheduled for shortly after 12:00 on 10.08.2014. It is confirmed that there are Nato troops on the ground in Kharkov to assist in the unloading of the cargoes and the training involved with the new equipment and to guard the area in aerodrome proper. Note. To train Uke soldiers in the sophisticated night vision and other electronic equipment will take a month or more of intensive work. Ukeland does not have a month nor does Nato. Who is going to use this equipment? It is also confirmed that there is an ever increasing and not small cadre of American troops in Kiev assisting the Ukeland government in their prosecution of the war under the nominal auspices of NATO.
12. Conclusions. Russia will not allow Novorossiya to fall. Russian Army will not cross the borders with Novorossiya unless there is a catastrophic attack involving massive civilian casualties in Novorossiya or Russian Federation.
Nora, et al,
I have no details on the 18 dismissed officials.
They were Internal Security most of them. That could mean a host of reasons. And with Putin, a shot across the bow of others. He usually holds open the door for the big bad guys to leave. I’m certain all those deputies had chiefs who were involved in whatever was addressed.
Narco-trafficking is big, corruption internally is a big issue, so it may not mean a plot against Putin.
But someone, somewhere is working with the Ukraine and U.S. to get rid of him We know that from all the horseshit Kurginyan is stirring in Donetsk for Strelkov.
Here’s a recent article.
https://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2014/08/10/kurginyan-kolomoisky-and-rothschild-its-like-a-nest-of-russian-dolls-each-one-inside-the-next/
I’m no authority on the workings of the Kremlin, the fifth column, the sixth column and the GRU and FSB. I devoured a book on the FSB some months ago, the New Nobility, and it was a weak cranky rant against Putin. I’ve tried to read their political mags, but Yandex can give you headaches after a thousand or so words.
I hoped some real Russian folks here could give us a nice briefing about the realities and intrigues.
Sorry, I can’t help at this time. I’m searching, though.
Larchmonter445:
One should recall that Strelkov, Borodai, Gubarev, Antjufeev, and such are all backed by those on the losing side of the 1993 Battle for the Russian White House – the struggle that resulted in the current Russian political-economic settlement due to the Army siding with Yeltsin. Gubarev gave a name for this ideology recently that sounds right – Red Orthodoxy.
Kurginyan was also present there, and got all upset at the time that his careful orchestration of events was disrupted by the presence of Barkashov and various other nationalist groups he found distasteful.
Kurginyan is a professional theater director and thinker – i.e. a propagandist and dramatist. With everything about him keep that in mind.
Where-wolf
@ 11 August, 2014 01:14 If the former Iran Contra reporter Parry is part of some grand TeamEvil plot, how does reporting that the Ukies likely shot down MH17 play into that? It doesn’t seem so to me. I get what you’re saying about the New York Times though and heartily agree — the ONLY reason they would highlight the Nazified Azov Battalion even buried at the bottom of their article about the Donetsk fighting is because they’ve been given a greenlight to mention it from higher up editors.
@Andrew & Larchmonter445:One should recall that Strelkov, Borodai, Gubarev, Antjufeev, and such are all backed by those on the losing side of the 1993 Battle for the Russian White House – the struggle that resulted in the current Russian political-economic settlement due to the Army siding with Yeltsin. Gubarev gave a name for this ideology recently that sounds right – Red Orthodoxy.
As somebody who was in Moscow in 1993 and who had close contacts with various factions of the so-called two “sides”, including the military and the KGB, I want to categorically state that the paragraph above is a completely misleading statement. First, the fact that group A is (allegedly) backed by group B means nothing in itself because it says nothing about WHY this is the case. Second, there never was “one side” in 1993, not in the Parliament, not in the Kremlin. Today, Kulikov and Strelkov would very much be on the same side. Third, the Army never sided with Eltsin. First, because there was not such thing as “the Army” which, at any rate, was generally much closer to the Parliament and Rutskoi than to Eltsin and second, because the Army played no role in the events of 1993. As for “Red Orthodoxy”, this again means nothing at all, especially coming from Gubarev who is neither very Orthodox or very Red. Besides, in the Russian context, both “Orthodox” and “Red” need to be defined anyway because many totally different groups claim these two heritages and put completely different meanings into these categories.
Bottom line: this paragraph has almost more fallacies than words and the only reason why I let this one pass is because I want to show what kind of comments are *NOT* helpful in any way to understand the situation. This kind of crap belongs in Newsweek, or the NYT. Not here.
The Saker
Saker,
Thanks for your offering. I’m sure Andrew has other reaction to you correction of his explanation.
I’m going to look for a book that might give a historical background I need.
My friends from Jehovahs Witness who knock on my door say it’s all in their book, but the labyrinthian intrigue of Moscow-Kremlin-Ideologues intrigues me.
I have a notebook in Evernote full of names I’ve gleaned from my pathetic researching so far. Trying to keep the players and issues straight is a real puzzle.
And terms of art, phraseology is another maze.
I deciphered Zhongnanhai politics in China, but the Russian machinations is monumental.
We need a primer.
Putin set up the Donbass uprising. Yet, he faces a prorussian population unwilling to fight. That’s the fact and the DNR LNR officials keep complaining about the lack of volunteers.
Putin expected a stronger resistance, yet basically, they don’t fight. The prorussian forces made up 7000 fighters.
Sending troops in neutral provinces unwilling to fight back Kiev would be difficult.
Yet, something could have been done, with low political risk : a no-fly zone. It can ease the DNR and LNR military situation and become a strong political leverage.
Meanwhile, strengthening the two republics and oushing the movement in neighbouring oblasts.
Pouring supplies and some volunteers won’t suffice to stop Ukies push on Donetsk and Luhansk.
Putin overestimated the ability of prorussian militias to hold till the winter.
re 18 generals
Saker has already cleaned up somewhat there. Let me complement: The very idea that persons and relations didn’t change over 20 years is absurd. Moreover and more importantly, a war changes things. Someone who might have been a tidy bookkeeper for 20 years may turn out to be a good commander or anti-tank shooter. And, even more importantly, many “natural leaders” turn out to be of little worth in war times.
Moreover, the men “in the shadows” (like, for instance, Kurginyan) seem to be mainly trouble and shadowy puppet players.
re Putin “giving away” Novorossija
As someone correctly mentioned here and as Fedorov has perfectly well explained there is an “uncomfortable” but brutally true angle to the events many prefer to ignore.
Putin entering Novorossija (early on) would have meant (besides strategic aspects) that young Russian die because – let me put this very clearly – a whole lot of Donbass people don’t like to fight.
Let us remember the definition of “help”. Help is that you have a clear desire or goal and the readiness to put in all efforts but, alas, that’s not enough. So someone else helps by adding efforts or resources.
With all well deserved respect for the NR militia, the sad fact is that many, way too many, people in the Donbass are *not* doing their part. To add some clarity: NR is in trouble at least in a major part because they do not forcefully draft all able men like the ukratine regime does. This is an ugly example for the sad fact that many people have no honour, no spine, no self respect and will not defend themselves (and even less others) but expect others to risk their lives unless they are brutally forced to stand up.
Those people, with all due respect, do not deserve and are not worth the lives of young Russians. Nor do they deserve Russia taking the dangerous risk of playing in the enemies hands by quickly and early entering the war.
Let us state that very clearly: Those men in Donbass who do not stand up and serve in the militia are *not* neutral – they are weakening their own people and are playing into the hands of ukratine, short, they are traitors by passivity.
Risking to piss off some, I’d also like to mention that many of them are ukratinians – not ethnic Russians who just happened to end up in another country in the 90ies. There’s a reason why ukratine fell into pieces and became a junkyard, there’s a reason why ukratine has so many and so powerful zionist dual citizens (like poland, too btw.).
Finally some here might better understand the real problem of ukratine: It has importance due to its geographic position – but nobody wants it. Not uza, not eu, not Russia.
Many use a cheap whore but nobody marries her and certainly nobody is ready to die for her – although that’s exactly what she expects (and avoids herself).
Sorry for the harsh words but sometimes things need to be corrected and put straight.
Mote encouraging signs from Europe:
Gabor Steingart writes in the largest German economic newspaper about the West losing it’s path:
http://deepresource.wordpress.com/2014/08/11/gabor-steingart-on-der-irrweg-des-westens/
Paul Craig Roberts has endorsed article with a sigh of relief.
Further, William Pfaff has blamed Washington for the crises in the Ukraine:
http://deepresource.wordpress.com/2014/08/11/william-pfaff-on-ukraine-and-putin/
Where-Wolf, American Kulak , Larchmonter445 , vineyard saker:
Some great comments.
The easiest way to see propaganda is if they do not critise the hegemon in some way and only try to instill doubt in you about Putin for example, then it is essentially pyschops.
Tactically, Russia should have invaded east Ukraine immediately. Strategically they should never invade the Donbass. As time goes on Russia’s hand gets stronger so the zio-anglosphere – (The angloshere corrupted from zionist politions – whether Obama’s coterie or Cameron or Harper or John Key (Who is openly Jewish or Tony Abbott who clearly from his actions and looks – sorry to be so crude) all augemented by zionist money power and media. The five eyes is a Zionist joke – each one for a corner of the star of david.
The zionists are unfortunately the self appointed leaders of the Jewish tribe (who are are probably propagandized and [food] pharmacuticalised just like the rest of the foot soldiers in this technological empire).
Now if Russia had invaded immediately there would have been big short term advantages but those have disappated as the donbass has been depopulated and destroyed. If it invades now it gets the worst of both worlds; a ruined donbass and all the blame in effective western media.
Boris Le Lay said…
Putin set up the Donbass uprising. Yet, he faces a prorussian population unwilling to fight. That’s the fact and the DNR LNR officials keep complaining about the lack of volunteers.
Putin expected a stronger resistance, yet basically, they don’t fight.
And that statement is based on what exactly – other than a desire to smear Putin?
————-
re: Russia and generals
It is well known from many sources that the uza have many traitors and 5th colonne people in Russia. Some, possibly most of those, are not even intentional or malevolent traitors but rather, Pardon me, stupid people who took some of uza’s many honeytraps and baits, usually disguised in one way or another in “freedom” or “democracy” clothes, like having their children study in uk or uza.
Generally speaking these uza assets can be summarized as stupid, somewhat cheap public servants, journalists, etc. who can now be blackmailed by uza.
Of course, there’s also the real malevolant rats, mainly in the media. They are intentionally, willingly, and malevolantly conspiring with uza.
One important problem is the rule “The more evil and/or powerful they are the better their camouflage”. While some third rate journalist can act quite in the open, a, say general in the interior ministry, will not only act quite covert but he will also pro-actively undertake conspirative steps to not be recognized.
Right now, Putin is in a somewhat unpleasant position because there are few he can really rely on. Many high ranking officials will by no means openly oppose him, quite the contrary but they will, for instance, delay and hamper the execution of Putins orders by bureaucratic or other means. Even worse, one can only guess how they will act once uza puts pressure on them (“Your son in uk might be caught in some drug indictment and go to jail”).
To put it simple and straight: Putin will sooner or later need to clean his house. He will need to decapitate open and hidden traitors and all the dirty media scum working as uza propaganda outlets.
I will for obvious reasons neither talk about the opportunity to do that nor about the ways other than saying that it will be soon and that there is currently a build up, preparation, and professionalization taking place of a some kind of reliable pro Russia troups.
Expect to rather soon see some kind of “orange revolution” attack on some weaker parts of Russia. And expect a very massive defense and counter-attack, partly coming out of the shadows, to take care of a set of issues incl. ukratine. Moreover I would not be surprised if the Chinese who where suspiciously quiet since quite a while would make a major move, too.
It is important to keep in mind that it just looks as if the uza were still in power and attacking. They are not. They are increasingly desperately making increasingly panicked (and very dirty) moves to somehow survive. They won’t. And the eu abomination will fall, too.
Ukraine says they’re about to take Dontesk.. be prepared for the the show to be be over soon folks..
Of course, now the ‘reunified’ ukraine will have to keep the millions of citizens from revolting again as the EU and USA hopeburgers turn out to be thin air
Mr. P.,
But, “early on”, the only choice was to grab a hunting rifle and wait for Akhmetov’s influence to destroy everything while the Kremlin did nothing. Is that a rational choice for someone who knows nothing about fighting and has a job? Nobody of any importance offered any kind of clear plan – most especially nobody in the Kremlin. Even now, it wouldn’t be shocking to see the Kremlin sell Novorossiya down the river in exchange for various promises, such as to never join NATO and to turn the Donbass into a UN-protected zone. Why fight for that? Leadership starts at the top, and Putin has not made clear what he stands for. This is not an attack on Putin, simply pointing out that the Russian strategy has pluses and minuses. As I recall, you yourself at MOA talked about the problems with recognizing the Crimea but not making clear where Novorossiya was supposed to go. A good general, such as Strelkov, can achieve great things. But there is no political general in Novorossiya or Moscow.
“An army of sheep, led by a lion, is better than an army of lions, led by a sheep.”
American Kulak,
You’ve made some terrific points here, but let me just address my use of “we”, bc I do it for a bunch of reasons. First off, habit ;~) But really, in days of yore when this country did things we were all proud of, we used we, right? So why not now? Secondly, bc despite all its flaws, I still love this place: it’s my country and I’m a part of it, regardless of how utterly opposed I am to what it’s doing. I live here, I pay taxes, I vote, and they’ll be my elected representatives until I and others figure out how to replace them with someone genuinely better. So their decisions don’t *reflect* me, but they unfortunately still *represent* me. And that gets to the third reason: “we” doesn’t feel real good, and I’m hoping that discomfort will get more people to realize why — and start figuring out what We The People can do about it. ;~) So yeah, it doesn’t feel good typing it, and it doesn’t feel good reading it — but it’s still our country and our government and they’ll keep doing what they are until We The People stop them.
Boris Le Lay,
Data, please, on how “Putin set up the Donbass uprising”, “expected a stronger resistance” or “overestimated the ability of prorussian militias to hold till the winter.” Real data, not just another pack of counterfactual nonsense.
Anonymous who keeps comparing Putin to Hitler in bold face,
Fergawdsakes. I don’t know what you think you’re accomplishing here but News Flash: you’re not. Don’t try harder, dear — just better. On second thought though, please do keep the bold face: it makes you that much easier to ignore.
Mr. Pragma,
Yes! I’m so glad you’re commenting here, bc I learn something each and every time you do. Thank you. And your word choice for Ukraine’s, erm, geostrategic condition is both unforgettable and spot on. ;~)
test
Paul II
What I wrote at MoA was *my* point of view. I’m not Putin, I’m me, and I’m a rather straight guy; quite possibly I would be a lousy politician.
Frankly, I still think that Putin made an error (well, from what I know which is dimensions less than what information Putin has available).
The reason is that I consider ukratine as rather insignificant; it’s merely a step on the way into Russia. Strategically one must see the big picture not the current detail.
Another reason is that I’m quite knowledegable in military issues and I know with certainty that a) the uza not only isn’t the 1st rate power it pretends to be but in fact is a third rate power. In other words, my view is based on not caring batshit about uza “striking” or “striking back”. Their only way would be nuclear and that would be 100% certain their completely annihilation. Before suiciding their brain parasite (zionists) would leave and switch to another host…
So, I was based on (and still would have preferred) an early Russian intervention along the lines of “We’ve entered ukratine, arrested or shot all criminals (timochenko, klitschko, ratsenyuk, etc, etc) and we will leave as soon as the citizens of ukraine have a) made a new proper constitution with an obligation to not join nato and b) elected a proper government of their desires. We are *not* interested in any square-millimeter of that country (beyond Krim) and we do *not* care whether ukratine joins eu, ourselves or the fidschi islands. Know, however, that Russia *will* attack without hesitation each and everyone daring so much as to fart in our direction. Be warned poland!”
But again, I’m not Putin and maybe my way would be worse than his way. No matter what, I can – and do – deeply respect president Putin and, btw. I’m not elected – he is.
What I absolutely understand is: Why on earth *should* he care about ukratine? His only concerns – he is *Russias* president – must be what’s good or bad for Russia, e.g. nato. It is *not* his job to protect NovoRossija, it is *not* his job to fight in ukratined.
One potential exception: *Every* country is asked and obliged to protect innocent citizens against barbaric cruel massmurdering rats. (Strange enough that the only demands to that effect are made to Putin who did *nothing* bad against or in ukratine. Where are the complaints against e.g. germany or sweden not protecting the NovoRossija civilians?)
Short, president Putins way of dealing with the situation is not mine but it is perfectly valid, perfectly legal, and certainly not any less good than mine, yours or whoevers.
Finally, about 1%% – 2%% of NovoRossija is fighting. As long as they don’t have at the very least 10% on the streets and fighting, they, Pardon me, have no right whatsoever to demand Russian soldiers to risk their lives because they themselves don’t feel like it.
(Nora you are flattering me. Thanks so much but you make me feel ashamed)
Paul II, please don’t forget that Vladimir Putin has done nothing to support the rebels. Neither has the government.
That’s according to all the objective reporting from on the ground, from supranational organisations, from surveillance and from international inspectors.
I am certain that there is a great deal of communication between the rebel leadership and people in Moscow.
Also, I am sure that there’s a good number of people who have drifted across the border from Russia to Ukraine but to suggest that this is Russian government support is as ludicrous as it would be to suggest that because the United Kingdom does not ban its citizens from traveling to Iraq or Afghanistan where some of them end up joining Taliban, Al Qaida or other of Britain’s ‘enemies’ that the United Kingdom is supporting those enemies.
The Russian government owes the people in east/southern Ukraine nothing. These people are foreign nationals with no treaty arrangements with any sovereign nation.
It is great to cheer on the underdog and quite a normal human reaction. While I absolutely do not have a dog in the fight the rebels have my sympathy. At the same time I feel sorrow for the people of Ukraine as a whole because this is a fight not of their making.
We are treating this civil war as though the protagonists are the people of Ukraine. In truth they are not. The leadership of the rebels consists of ‘interested parties’ from Russia, some appear to be the representatives of Ukrainian oligarchs. They are not representatives of the people on the region and we know that those local people are not giving their support to the rebellion. The attackers are being pushed by foreign interests from the US and EU and, of course, an opposing clique of Ukrainian oligarchs. For historical parallels look back to feudal Europe back in the 12th and 13th centuries.
My only unanswered question, at least to my personal satisfaction is this: to what degree is the rebellion a catspaw of Russian government and an expression of the foreign policy objectives of the president of the RF. Right now, I honestly do not know the answer to that question because both a positive and a negative reply would both fit the circumstances.
In conclusion, remember this, while we might see this civil war as a fight between people in a particular country what is actually going on is a conflict between two rival blocs, two rival world views and is just one manifestation of a conflict that is taking place across the globe.
Mr. P.,
What you argued that Russia should do was take a clear plan and try to execute it. And explain it when they were about to do it, while they were doing it, and once they were getting to near the end of having done it. Sounds good. Back in my days of serious chess play, I recall a saying that “A bad plan is better than no plan.” And I am concerned that a lot of what the Kremlin has been up to has been more along the lines of “responses” – not plans. As you said, though, we don’t know 10% of what Putin does.
I disagree with your tone regarding Novorossiya. It may not be the legal job for the Russian president, but the status of Russians stuck in other countries is a big deal. In fact, the US’s attack on these people is to demoralize Russians and turn them against their leadership. A big reason for the current mess in the Ukraine is this “it’s none of our business” attitude towards the Ukraine. There should have been patriotic Russian groups funded with a leadership ready to go for when the US went nuclear in Kiev. It is entirely possible this mess would have been avoided if Russia had spent 20% as much money on PR as the West did. Also, if millions of demoralized and desperate refugees come to live in Russia, they will be easily used by the US to destabilize Russia.
Mr. P,
Why? I respect brains, knowledge and people who tell it like it is. A good sense of humor likewise. ;~) And I’ve been known to disagree with you on occasion… ;~)
Mr. P, Saker, Andrew, Auslander, American Kulak
I’d like to address this issue:
The political leadership inside Donetsk, as well as the militia leadership, certainly runs to Moscow and comes back with changes, new faces, repositioned responsibilities.
This, seems to my eyes and mind, that the Kremlin is calling the shots. That the stones on the GO board are being placed by someone inside Russia.
Any idea why the impression is clear that Novorossiya is a puppet show?
And if this is a correct observation, why should we not think that enough military aid will always be there for Donetsk to hold and win, not just survive?
And if the militia holds, why should we not think Putin is getting what he wants the way he wants it?
He is keeping Ukraine in turmoil, he is keeping NATO out (largely, though they supply and train), and he is destabilizing the junta and fracturing the social cohesion of Ukraine. This, too, must continue for many more months. A ceasefire does not gain anything. A loss is a huge disaster.
However, if the militia must stand down, all this is lost, Putin is left with serious trouble on the border and ultimately, a huge reconstituted Ukie army that the US will rebuild and rearm swiftly.
Then, on the border will be massive air and artillery that forces the war Putin does not want.
And it will be as if he will be fighting a land war against NATO that will bleed the Russian military and economy.
I think half-measures buy real trouble.
If the militia soon cannot go on the offensive and get back lost cities and take Mariupol, Putin is buying the war he never wanted.
Am I reading this incorrectly?
I quote Paul II @11:57 in its entirety.
It’s really odd to bash Donbass people unwilling to fight (it means killing, let’s not forget it, for the most part your own people) in a war, where a lot of parts are clouded by spectacular “chess plays”, by extensive lack of clarity and honesty in a good part of the leadership (whose legitimacy is also questionable, who appoints who?), by total dependence on Russia good will for your success and absolute uncertainty about that will.
Everybody is playing some big game, busy developing grandiose strategies, and I (a common Novorussian folk) should kill and die for their sake? I don’t even know if Russia really stand by us and to what extent, I don’t know what really is or will be Novorossija, I don’t know anything.
Sure, it’s my land and my people, but I’ll not fight to give them to “somebody different” (maybe the way Yanukovich was different from Yushenko), nor I’ll do without concrete assurances that I have some chance to win.
I’ll do if after that really will be MY land and MY people, nor a slightly diverse servitude under different parasites as masters.
I’d also like to share with all the “spined” people here a saying from my birthland:
“Ca vocca se magnane e maccarune!”
“With the mouth you just eat spaghetti!”
I hope the sense is understandable.
This by no ways means putting Russia and the West on the same level, of course. I stand by the truth and today it means to stand by Russia (even if not always Russia stands by the truth), as much as 80% of (non-fighting) Novorussians stand by her, but to kill and die I need a little more than being better than the D-Empire (it does not take a lot of effort for that). To get rid of the mummy of that horrible monster which still desecrates the very heart of Holy Rus’, the residence place of the Anointed, and an unequivocal condemnation of the Israeli recurrent ritual mass murders in Palestine would be a good start.
Probably I’ll have to wait for the return of the Christian Emperor (God willing)!
Paul II,
I believe there is a difference between someone with German citizenship, for example, needing to get out of a country due to current disruptions, and someone who’s been living in an area that has not officially been part of Germany for close to a century. And I’m pretty sure no one in Russia is very happy about what is happening to the innocent people of the Donbass — but *must* Merkel protect those of German extraction in Alsace-Moselle if France goes nuts?
Russia’s primary responsibility is to the people of Russia, and no amount of ragging on Putin is going to change that. Frankly, if you’re so upset, why not go there and volunteer. I.e., your defeatism is getting old, especially when you make claims about Putin’s responsibility when he quite clearly stated that he did not think they should hold those referenda.
P.S. – I forget: no poor young Russian soldier needed to be sacrificed to stop the rats in Kiev from offering the ritual sacrifice of innocents to their master; a few words would have sufficed, with some striking examples to make sure you meant business!
Paul II
I think you err on two points.
– ukratinians are ukratinians. There wasn’t a wall built and there was nobody shot trying to escape to Russia if he felt that was were he belonged to and should be.
How long is the “but we are Russians!” valid?
Obviously you feel that 20some years isn’t enough. So what do you think? 100 years? 500? How long should people who happened to end up in the wrong country, granted, have a right to not live in Russia, not pay taxes in Russia, not serve in Russia, not go to school in Russia, etc. etc. have the right to be defended by Russia – even when they themselves, except for far less than half a percent, so not do that?
And keep in mind: EVEN NOW Russia warmly welcomes ethnic Russians fleeing ukratine.
– You seem to go on the *wrong* premisse that Putin is at liberty to more or less free of consequences and and costs chose out of diverse options.
That is not the case.
To demonstrate that point: Mil. entering ukratine triggers quite some consequences. For one, Putin would “prove” that all the smearing of him and Russians being the evil guys are true. Russia would lose the position it has been working so hard and so long for.
There might be a regional war triggered, say with poland and germany for a start. Suddenly Putin would have to fight a war across half of europe just or the luxury of some ethnic Russians who found it too burdensome to flee to a Russia that would warmly welcome them and who found it to risky to defend themselves.
Even worse, it might trigger nuclear strikes by nato. Of course that would immediately lead to the complete anihiliation of the nato agressors and of course Russia would survive – but there would be tens of millions of dead Russians (and others).
And again; what for? For the luxury of some ethnic Russians who found it too burdensome to flee to a Russia that would warmly welcome them and who found it to risky to defend themselves.
I myself had a different view but that was then, at the early beginning when Russia *could* do a surprise attack. Now the situation is very different.
And again: I honestly and deeply respect the very few in NovoRossija whi fight in the militia. but we have to also realize that around 99.8% to 99.85% are *not* fighting. For whatever, possibly even understandable reasons.
Moreover, Putin didn’t ask them to rise up and fight. He didn’t ask them to establish NovoRossija. It was *their* decision. Based on what should Russia have an obligation to get involved into the consequences of *their* decision?
There were other options. For instance the option to give in for the moment and to organize a partisan fight with targetted killings of the worst ukratinian criminals.
Frankly, if 50 of the best NovoRossija fighters had gone and killed kolomoisky they might have gained more and, just btw. MH17 might have been avoided. Because, while I clearly see that it was not the NR militia who shot that airplane down I also see that the ukratine scum thugs wouldn’t have been in a situation in which shooting down MH17 and blaming NR for it would have been attractive (or even come to their mind).
Again, from a human point of view I admire them and I profoundly wish them the best of luck and success.
But looking rationally, the NR people *hastily* and *unreasonably* chose the option that almost certainly wasn’t the best and that brought immense damage to human lives and to cities with it.
If anyone here feels that he’s like to judge than he should be aware that that is based on objectivity and fair and sound reasoning.
Dusty,
This is a proxy war, and the rebels are getting help from the nationalistic-minded side of the Russian elite. They would have been ground into dust a long time ago if that were not the case. However, the first couple of months were not real in the sense of a serious war, as the oligarchs, Kremlin, and others were trying to cut deals. In the end, no deals worked out, so it turned into war. The fact that international groups may say Russia and NATO are not involved says more about international groups than about this war.
Nora,
I’ve said a lot in praise of Putin, and still do. But your argument in this case strikes me as a bit odd. I am complaining that the Kremlin hasn’t taken a clear stand on what it would like to see in Novorossiya, so this makes it hard for someone to risk his life. Me as an individual fighting will not change the issue in question. There are many good reasons for Russia to not say what they will do in various situations, such as an attack on Transdenistria, but a drawback is that it leaves your supporters unsure of where they stand.
Novorossiya has been in “Ukraine” for 23 years. There was only the USSR before that, so language and laws were from Moscow, not Langley. Or at least that is the view I have heard from those who were there at the time.
Anyway, we can just agree to disagree on the issue of how the Kremlin presented things to those in the Donbass or other Russian areas of the Russian Empire. It isn’t like we are there. Perhaps some of the local leaders are making things clear.
Larchmonter,
Why Mariupol?
I don’t like a thing that is going on in the Donbass — it literally gives me nightmares, for gosh sakes, and then I’m terrified at what I’ll find when I get online in the morning. However, that’s our doing, not Putin’s. And all the trolls clutching their pearls and wringing their hands about Putin’s supposed passivity somehow never realize for a moment that he wouldn’t “have” to do a thing if we hadn’t been up to our filthy eyeballs in every bit of this mess since way before it started. I don’t trust Poroshenko’s interest in humanitarian aid any more than I trusted anything that happened with that damned plane, but I’m guessing: a) there’s a whole lot going on behind the scenes that we may never know and *certainly* don’t know now; and b) VVP’s red line is Crimea.
Larchmonter445
My primary answer is: Who is “the Kremlin”? Who is “Moscow”?
There are people. On both sides. In Russia and in the Donbass.
What’s the chances that of, say, 10 people in “Moscow” and 10 people in the Donbass everyone even just openly and honestly says what he thinks, fears, and wants?
As I’ve just reminded the readers here, one of Putin’s major problems is that there is no “Moscow” or “Kremlin” but hundreds and hundreds of people, each one of them with their own points of view, thoughts, ideas, wishes, understanding – and many of them quite doubtful.
Have a look at the Donbass. Leaders have changed, commanders have changed, sometimes even inmidst of war factions can’t be brought under a common command.
Frankly, I think that whole idea of “the Kremlin” remote controlling “the DNR” (or “the LNR”) is in between unrealistic, stupid, and maybe even with an agenda (no personal attacks on anyone here intended).
What seems reasonable to me is the assumption that Russia (incl. “the Kremlin”) has a positive and friendly attitude towards NovoRossia. Moreover I’m assuming that someone very high up might have signalled to Russian agencies to sometimes look with only one eye open, for instance, at border controls or to “not notice” some truck that crosses not through border stations but through the forest in the middle of the night. Maybe, just maybe, it might even have happened that some captain or major of a unit near the border “forgot” some BMPs and a truck with ammunition. And yes, sure enough, GRU or some other intelligence service has both eyes closed re. NovoRossija, but then secret services are a weird beast of their own and not simply to be subsumed with “the Kremlin”.
Similarly I do not at all agree with those who feel Putin being “weak” re. ukratine and NovoRossija. Did it ever occur to you that him actually being tough might be in the very fact that till now Russia only followed legal and diplomatic paths rather than some gung-ho Rambo actions?
And then, just have a look at the Russians typically associated these days with the Kremlin and NovoRossija. Frankly, I wouldn’t trust any one of them. Not few of them seem to have their own doubtful and quite possibly covert interests and agendas.
Re. Russia supporting NT with weapons, etc … Sorry, if that were the case to any not insignificant degree, the NR militia would sit in the presidents palace in kiev by now.
The possible exception – that seems to have been averted by Putin/Lavrov for the moment – would be very heavy shelling and bombing leading to very major losses of civilian lives. And yes, I assume that Lavrov wasn’t too friendly. It seems reasonable to assume that in the end Lavrov told the rats “You let the Red Cross in or else …”
“Nora said… …especially when you make claims about Putin’s responsibility when he quite clearly stated that he did not think they should hold those referenda.”
Maybe there is something wrong with my ears, I thought he said they should wait. Not abstain. Wait. How long I did not hear. After all, the gas transit issue and economic problems were destined to make colossal problems, and so waiting could have been the right thing to do.
Another from the Ron Paul Institute:
US Sends Humanitarian Bombs to Iraq as it Warns Russia Against Humanitarian Aid to Ukraine
by Daniel McAdams
an excerpt:
“Meanwhile, US Ambassador to the United Nations, Samantha Power, warned Russia, as US humanitarian bombs fell on Iraq, that any further intervention in Ukraine, including under the pretense of delivering humanitarian aid, would be viewed as “an invasion of Ukraine.”
“The humanitarian situation needs addressing, but not by those who have caused it,” she said (presumably with a straight face).”
http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/peace-and-prosperity/2014/august/08/us-sends-humanitarian-bombs-to-iraq-as-it-warns-russia-against-humanitarian-aid-to-ukraine.aspx
Anonymous @17:09
Front up, I’ll admit right away that I myself didn’t see it that way half a year ago.
If Russia had fully supported (incl. mil.) the NovoRossija idea early on, many of us, incl. myself, would have rejoiced. For quite precisely the wrong reasons.
Russia doesn’t need the Donbass. But for ukratine lossing the Donbass would basically mean go bankrupt without any tangible chance to ever recover and become a viable state, no matter the government, no matter the leaders.
That would be an open invitation to anyone (hint: uza) to just grab it and fill it up with missiles and bases. Let’s not forget: quite some of the (usually uza) bases in the -stans and other small and/or poor countries have been built either because that country couldn’t defend against it and/or because it was at least some kind of income…
What would Russia have gained? A tiny piece of land? Some comparably small industry and resources? Sorry but the value of the (w)hole of ukratine can be easily expressed in M&Ms, buttons, or cheeseburgers.
On the other hand, if ukratines territorial integrity was preserved, its constitution adapted, its government properly elected and some mental sanity applied, it could be a viable if poor state and, probably more important from Russias perspective, its thugs and oligarchs wouldn’t infest other countries. Any maybe, just maybe, one might even succeed one day to clean up the mess, to shoot the worst oligarchs and to such make ukratine a half way decent country that wouldn’t be much trouble for anyone.
Frankly, I think that even the nato missile thing is more of a bargaining chip for Russia. You bet they do not really take that seriously. I mean, have a look at it. uza: missiles lousy, air defense lousy and more PR than working metal. Russia: missiles excellent and a decade ahead of uza, air defense not even comparable.
Now think what happens when someone with lousy missiles and very poor air defense fires missiles at someone with excellent missiles and air-defense light years ahead.
Let me repeat what I have said before: Putin told uza in 2008 when he left (as president) “Go home. Give up your insane world domination ideas, repair your rotting country and be welcome as one of the major powers in a multipolar world”. Then he observed for 4 years. And, yes, he *did* know that medvedev was stupid enough to dream of opening Russia and a reset blabla. Upon his return in 2012 Putin said “They didn’t accept my friendly and reasonable offer. Evidently those idiots need a broken spine to behave properly”. And that’s when Putin started an *extremely well thought over and planned* campaign to break uza’s spine.
Putin is *not* about destroying uza or about destroying, stealing or remote controlling ukratine or anyone else. He is about breaking the unipolar uza thug-wannabe-imperium of rotten retards and criminals and he is about Russia doing well and being safe and strong.
ukratine is *absolutely certainly* not worth to change that plan or path even for a single millimeter. The *only* interesting thing in ukratine is the ethnic Russians; and those will either live in a half way decent state without terror against them or they will leave for Russia.
Nora,
Mariupol because of the sea port and easy massive supply and prevention of such for Kiev.
And symbolic cleaning out of Nazis.
But I’ve given up on arm-chairing this conflict.
It makes no sense other than some Russians with their fight to protect Russia. They went there, made a stand and are fighting for their culture, beliefs and against Nazis. It isn’t really a rebellion or a civil war. It’s just where the fighting is.
The people in vast majority don’t care enough to fight in a rebellion. So the war is Ukies against Russians. It makes it easy for the Ukies. The militia shows humanity and the Ukies show satanism.
And Mr. Pragma has educated me to break out of thinking about internal Russia as I have, struggling to understand its dynamics.
So, I’m going to desist beyond rooting for Putin, who I think is a very good leader and very intelligent. The man for the century.
Paul II,
I really don’t feel like going back in the records but I am sure that if you did, and really looked, you’d find the four or five points he consistently made as to what should be done. Over and over and over again. It was a very clear stand, unmistakeably clear, and I’m quite puzzled that you seem to have forgotten it was even made. And Ukraine was an S.S.R., but I am guessing had at least as much automony as, say West Germany, no? The people there consider themselves Ukrainians, of Russian extraction. That’s very different than the people in Crimea, which was Russian back when this country was thirteen measly little states and my grandfather’s tribe was still hunting and farming their own land and fishing their own waters.
Again, why focus on Putin instead of Obama? Or, truth be told, the cowards of the Donbass — there, I said it. I see no good reason for him to risk Russian lives to save those of people who won’t lift a finger to help themselves; never did have much patience for anyone who keeps whining, “Help me! Help me! Help me!” and then get all upset when that help is not forthcoming in the exact fashion they requested.
Larchmonter445,
Yes, unfortunately. It’s absolutely gruesome to watch this unfold and one hell of a morality play: genuine heroes, diabolical fiends, and the usual human mess, I suppose, in the middle. And it’s really very sad bc I do think if the people of the Donbass had shown any spark, any spine, different decisions might well have been made. But the bottom line is (God, I can’t believe I’m saying this!), they’re not worth the sacrifice if they’re not going to defend themselves. Why should people living somewhere else entirely (most Russians don’t live anywhere the Donbass, I don’t think) die to protect them if they won’t lift a finger themselves? And now I feel like I need a shower from having said that — but it’s true. And yes, Putin is a hero, for what he has done, is doing, and is trying to do — which is bring us down safely for the sake of all humanity. And for that reason alone, I’m glad he’s resisted all these attempts to drag him in — and hope he can continue. We’ll fall soon enough: the goal is for everything on this planet to NOT end up glowing in the dark bc we fell hard.
To anonymous 17:09, who quoted Nora as saying, “…especially when you make claims about Putin’s responsibility when he quite clearly stated that he did not think they should hold those referenda.”
Putin requested the Donetsk and Lugansk regions postpone the referenda until after the Ukraine presidential election of May 25. Instead, they held the vote as originally scheduled on May 11, I believe. One Donetsk leader even defied the Russian president publicly, saying, “Why do we need Putin’s permission?”
Putin had achieved tremendous worldwide power prior to this incident. His power derived from his word. For example, regarding Syria, his power came from the fact that both sides did what he said.
Then Donetsk defied him. Who knows what Putin might have accomplished had the power of his word not been shattered.
@Mr. Pragma
Many of things what you aresaying is exactly what enemies of Russia and Putin would have been advocating? So what are you? A naive person or anglos sponsored pycho oprator?
People need to be cqreful of what this Mr. Parma advocates-total subjucation of Russia under pretext of ckever move by putin!
Paul, here’s a thing. Putin, and here I refer to him personally and not as a figurehead, has made a point about being legal, clean and honest. It is my belief that he is as honest as it is possible to be as the head of state of ANY country. That’s because he has made a strategic choice.
If it were to be found that he was NOT being honest then such a screeching and hullaballoo as the world has never heard before would emanate from the mouths of politicians who are far, far less honest than Putin.
In following this strategy Putin must keep himself cleaner than clean and enforce that upon those responsible to him.
As Mr Pragma above notes, if the rebels were receiving aid they’d already have moved to Kyiv. The Russian government would not piss about with a few old tanks and out-dated ammunition. There’s simply no point to it.
The rebels have been hampered by Putin’s very difficult choice, but then the people there did rather jump the gun and they sure as hell do not have the support that is needed to make the cost of an invasion worthwhile to Russia.
Now though, the Russians have set a very fine trap for the Ukrainians and their handlers. The aid convoy will, I am certain, be exactly as advertised. No military accompaniment and no weapons or military aids at all. The thing is though that if one hair on the head of any Russian representative of the ICRC is harmed then the hounds of hell will be unleashed across the border.
Overall, it is my guess that the Russian government is about out of patience with all the messing around. Now they are laying the cards on the table. Now they will see who walks and who stays. Remember, Russia has no interest in taking one single square centimeter of Ukrainian territory, there’s nothing of value there except a few of the people. I reckon the Russians now are going to be working to end the silliness and get back to the business of working with China to continue to manage the decline of the dollar as they have been doing since 2004.
Anonymous 19:25
Huh?
You are making no sense whatsoever. Rewind and try again but please, this time with facts.
Larchmonter445 said: “The political leadership inside Donetsk, as well as the militia leadership, certainly runs to Moscow and comes back with changes, new faces, repositioned responsibilities. This, seems to my eyes and mind, that the Kremlin is calling the shots.”
Not true;
There are (at least) TWO Russias at play here.
The political leadership inside Donetsk, runs to Moscow and mainly meets one of these factions (not Putin’s faction).
So to say that the political leadership inside Donetsk has influence in Moscow does not imply that Putin supports them. It seems he does not.
Like has been said above; This is what the Iranians concluded about Russia; namely, that there are TWO Russias. One that pretends to be on the Iranian side, but isn’t, and one that is.
By the way. The real fear here is that the United States is replaying their second world war play. You know, the divide and conquer play in Europe. The one where those who pull the strings in the United States, and their minions worldwide, deliberately started a massive war in Europe.
Perhaps…..Russia lets events of the world take their course. Russia moved with lighting speed when events in motion presented a moment when high value in Crimea could be attained with little risk or cost. Now, the battle in Novorossiya is context and time will present other opportunities as yet unknown until the dice fall. There is a time to wait and a time to move….some only know one way.
I am reminded of father telling me the difference between a real man and a fanatic, when I read all the advice for Russia or Putin to do this or that.
“Son…a fanatic is a man who will burn the barn to kill a rat. A real man learns to live with a few rats while making sure the cats are hungry.”
Think about that and be glad Russia had enough of fanatics in the last century and simply wants to be a real country, rather than a bloody fanaticism of ideology or empire.
VladTheFluffy says:
Good to hear from you again Juan. Stay healthy and lucky.
From stargazers window:
“Square of Defenderess to Aggressor” …
http://astromundanediary.blogspot.de/2014/08/11.html
(sorry for “link-whoring” – please tell me if I shall stop)
to nora (18:44)
“they are not worth the sacrifice”
a strategic thought, long in the background of my mind. To me a different light is shining on that relity: sacrifice in Stalingrad had the background: there was nothing in the rear, just steppe.
Donbass: there is everything in the rear: possible living amidst of fellow russians, a threefold income level and so on.Not easy to leave everything, but better then being dead tomorrow.
Who might throw the first stone?
I’m still hoping for more miracles, but …
It’s reality that bites including
the hate in many ukrainian souls on russia from out of the 20th century sufferings and older ones.
Human sufferings on borders to mighty entities.
And believe me, it tears me apart
Islam is a restoration of Judaism, without the restraint of ethnicity and completely useless, spiritually, because the Lord already came.
It has two more Prophets, One extremely undervalued (let’s say so) and the other very overvalued. This latter would also be the only prophet whom were bestowed earthly honors while living.
Apart from the righteous men inside it, it’s part of the problem.
Papism and Protestantism are a return to Judaism, without the burden of Mosaic Law precepts and a Messiah transformed in a man of this world and into an abstraction completely separate from this world at the same time.
Apart from the (always fewer) righteous men inside them, they are part of the problem.
Both these progressions to the past are fertile ground for self-serving interpretations of the Scripture, going from the utterly idiotic interpretations to the completely hypocritical interpretation. In short, the Pharisaical approach to the Revelation.
It’s only normal. When you don’t recognize or forget the Logos, you are just one step away from (sometimes very erudite) madness!
The Lord disputed THAT interpretation, not the Scripture. Interpretation which can be summed up as the filtering out of the gnat and the swallowing of the camel!
The Lord came to fulfill the Scripture (His exact words), not to dispute It. He disputed those who had made the Scripture their very private income at the expense of widows, orphans and derelicts.
It’s then a solemn nonsense to state that it did not exist a very defined written text of the Old Testament at the time when the Lord did walk in the world.
There were the Hebraic text in the Temple and the Greek text (the Septuagint), a perfect translation made more than two centuries before. The Hebraic text went lost in the destruction of the Temple, but the rabbis were kind enough to write it down anew, with a few amendments to eliminate all the prophecies about the Christ (that the Greek text has conserved).
The original Judaism is no more. The Jews, the people chosen to be the earthly vessel of the Christ, accomplished their task two millennia ago. From that time the chosen people are those who choose Christ!
The Jews who didn’t (a lot of them did) choose Christ, did choose Barabbas and Caiaphas, and THAT is their legacy and identity from that time.
Killing the Christ and invoking His blood on them and their children, they sealed their fate. After their formal rejection by God with the destruction of the Temple, they developed away from the Torah and towards the Talmud, which is the bible of the antichrist.
Rejecting God and being rejected by God, you can only end up worshiping the devil (the separation from God).
This legacy of Caiaphas and Barabbas is not racial. Modern “Jews” have no lineage from the ancient Jews, not ethnic nor religious. That’s just a pretension. The legacy is ideological, so much so that today is the most successful religion worldwide. Hundreds of millions of so-called christians and muslims follow this religion (which has nothing to do with Judaism, I repeat) and its precepts: robbery and murders (Barabbas), legal exploitation, institutional lies, ritual murders of innocence and justice and self-worshiping, the sin of the devil (Caiaphas).
They have made themselves (or better, their bosses, their high priests) the messiah. As the One sent by God did not fit in their cravings and delusions, they rejected Him and morphed their (residual) tribe into a collective messiah, whose identity has lost any racial or cultural meaning and it’s resolved only in the rejection of Christ AND His Word You can reject Christ as Son of God, but keeping His Word puts you out of this ideological tribe. You have to sin against the Holy Spirit (the Spirit of Truth), not only against the Son of Man, to be part of the tribe.
This rejection is ideological, it’s a moral choice, not a genetic determination.
II
This ideological tribe, these heirs of Barabbas and Caiaphas ARE the problem!
Their main battle is against God, every their wickedness against men is made as a blasphemy, as an insult, a spittle against God.
They are the progeny of the devil, the assassin since the beginning and the father of lies. As their father, they are moved by the pathetic presumption of being able to imitate the Creator and the frustrating awareness that they cannot, so they vent their rage upon His Creation, above all Its apex: Man!
Nothing sates them as human sufferings! But their hunger never goes away….
Their supreme goal, seemingly, is the reconstruction of the Temple in Jerusalem. If they succeed, God will not tolerate anything more and the game will be over for this world.
The devil’s main task is to convince everyone that he does not exist. This conviction facilitates enormously the capture of men in his ruses; there’s no worse enemy than the one you think does not exist!
The name of the devil is Satan! The Lord says so and He knows a thing or two about him, as He saw him fall like lightning from Heaven.
Men are the only tools available to him to carry on his lust for destruction, as he has no power by himself upon the Creation. Only God and us, the only creatures made in His Image and Likeness who unite the two aspects of reality, material and spiritual, have power upon It.
Every creature in His Likeness, Angels included, is free to go against God, to choose to separate himself from God. Many angels did and our progenitors did follow their “whispers” since the beginning, separating themselves and their fruits as well, together with the Creation which they ruled.
The Incarnation made manifest once again the Way to God, the Cross showed that it’s not possible to rely on this world and its princes for that, the Resurrection took away the most powerful weapon of the devil and his progeny since the Fall: the (fear of) death!
Opposite to the devil, man can repent, as his sin did not generate inside of himself, as is the case with the devil, but was instilled from outside.
Anyway, don’t hold your breath for that. Man is obtuse, since the Fall there’s no wisdom in him. He still thinks he knows better and, after all, the devil does not exist, right!!???
I mean, look at Gaza, at Odessa, at Mosul, look at all the gratuitous, senseless evil of the last century….. where do you see the devil?
Look at all those men who have billions and want more….. who rule upon millions of slaves and want more…. who have everything material and are desperate…. who have no material needs and steal, who kill for mere love of killing.
Where is the devil? Come on, it’s just a fairy tale.
Let’s rather talk about something serious, like the probabilistic wave which has created the universe or the bear that fell in the ocean and became a whale or, better yet, the magnificent lot and progressive of humanity….