The Russian media is reporting from numerous sources that the representatives of the Ukraine have signed the Steinmayer formula.
President Zelenskii is making a press conference confirming this.
This is, of course, very good news. It appears that the pressure of Trump and Macron has worked.
Now the biggest danger comes from the Ukronazis who are already going hysterical and speaking of a “victory for Putin”.
Zelenskii was put in a terrible position, just read this excellent piece by my friend Dmitry Orlov:
https://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2019/09/look-whos-not-laughing.html
Still, I believe that he has made the right choice. Now he will need all the help possible to resist the Ukronazis who will go ballistic and threaten a new Maidan.
You know who else will be despondent? All the Russians opposition figures who accused Putin of “selling out” Novorussia.
Stay tuned, if something interesting happens, I will update here.
The Saker
UPDATE1: in his presser, Zelenskii explained that the Steinmayer will be “re-worked” by a future law which the Ukrainian Rada will pass. So in fact, he says one thing to the Minsk Contact Group and something very different to his domestic audience. To them he said “there will be no surrender” :-)
Natalia Nikonorova, DNR Foreign Minister speaking to the Russian media from her car
That’s okay, what matters is not what anybody says, but that which was signed, and the foreign minister of of the DNR confirmed that the Steinmayer was not changed or otherwise amended.
UPDATE2: the Ukronazis have already started a protest in front of Zelenskii’s residence. Both Poroshenko and Timoshenko have declared that they are categorically rejecting the Steinmayer formula.
UPDATE3: the Rada is going ballistic. They just had an emergency session which saw Liashko declare that Zelenskii is a “usurper” while the Speaker of the Rada said that the President had violated the constitution. I kid you not. I think that they might well try to impeach Zelenskii next. Wow, what a nice coincidence, isn’t it? Every time a President does something the PTB don’t like – they simply impeach him!
UPDATE4: check out this video showing the Ukronazis screaming “no to the capitulation!” over and over again:
UPDATE5: interesting reports this morning – there are no significant protests or demonstrations in the streets of the Ukraine right now. The Ukronazis seemed to be absolutely outraged at the lack of riots. I would say that in the streets, Zelenskii appears to be stronger (so far!), in the Rada, however, this is very different story. There are also rumors of Poroshenko financing a special stormtrooper-like force from ex-soldiers. We shall soon find out if these rumors are founded or not.
UPDATE6: there were larger demonstrations today; worse – a lot of young angry Urkonazis have gathered and have threatened civil disobedience which, in the Ukrainian context refers to engaging in Maidan-like violence.
I am sad to see that, exactly as I predicted, the Nazis are now going after the Zionists of Kolomoiskii.
This will be my final update on this page.
The Saker
Maybe Z can ask Putin to send in Spetznatz to clear out Azov and associates…
…..if the treacherous army continues the ATO against Donbass …Putin could defend Donbass on humanitarian grounds maybe……particularly as Syria is kinda winding down…..
…….so what can be done if it all goes wrong if one still feels pessimistic…..
For those who like me do not know what this is – this is a quote from inforussie.com:
Steinmeier formula
In late 2015, then German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier put forward a plan that later became known as the « Steinmeier formula ». The plan stipulates that a special status be granted to Donbass in accordance with the Minsk Agreements. In particular, the document envisages that Ukraine’s special law on local self-governance will take effect in certain areas of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions on a temporary basis on the day of local elections, becoming permanent after the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) issues a report on the vote’s results. The idea was endorsed at the Normandy Four meeting in Paris on October 2, 2015, and has been known as the Steinmeier formula since.
****
This is a wonderful thing.
“Local self-governance”. Whats that?………. Like party on!!
For those that do not know what the Steinmayer formula is, it is the special status for the Donbas two people’s republics. Here is some of that : https://sputniknews.com/politics/201705151053636930-russia-donbass-formula-steinmeier/
This is good news … now we see what happens.
I smell an American humanitarian intervention in the offing.
yeah an American humanitarian cruise missile strike or a humanitarian attack on an airliner?
‘They make a desert and call it humanitarian intervention’.
Perimetr,
The type humanitarian intervention where no humans are left alive to talk about it.
That type.
Mike from Jersey
Well, not in this case. It would be a foolish and dangerous thing to do, so close to the Russian border. If a special status is given to the Donbass, this most probably means the federalization of Ukraine, something that should have been done years ago and something that is inevitable. Ukraine has no reason to exist in it’s present geographical shape, as it has appropriated huge areas of historic Russian land, inhabited by Russians. However, the neo-Nazis from western Ukraine (the former Galicia) will do their utmost to preserve Ukraine’s present geographic shape. Can they be stopped ? Maybe. This depends on the attitude of the oligarchs, who both control and finance them. However, the oligarchs have one weak spot. They all have bank accounts in the West, where they stashed the money they embezzled in Ukraine. This means the West can, if it want’s to, apply pressure on the oligarchs, who will probably comply, as they do not wish to lose the loot they stashed in the Western banks. We shall see how this ends, including Zelensky’s ability to survive the present political changes. It’s going to be very interesting to watch.
Foolish and dangerous has not stopped them before.
Why wasn’t home rule proposed for every oblast in the country? The most fascist bastions in Galicia would be secure in knowing they’d never have to adopt the trappings of a civilised society no matter who was the titular head in Kiev. They could even dig up Bandara’s bones and put them on display as saintly relics in their new national church created in the recent schism. The important thing is a mechanism stopping them from slaughtering other innocents as they have been doing for five years.
*********
Well, now I read that Zelensky is going to be impeached over this act of “treason.” That ought to finally tear it for the Donbass and Mr. Putin. Both should know that peace with the fascist war criminals will never be realised. The Donbass oblasts should simply declare total independence from Ukraine. The Russian Federation should recognise this status and offer it military protection from the attacks surely to come from The Bandaran Reich and NATO. The secessionists should also make a priority of reclaiming those parts of Donetz PR and Lugansk PR occupied by the Kiev junta. Then they should invite Odessa, Kharkov and other ethnic Russian bastions to join their new federal republic. Finally, Washington should be sued in the international court of justice at the Haige for fomenting this whole deadly fiasco and reparations demanded. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria and Yemen should probably all take my last piece of advice.
Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call – 7 February 2014
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957
Ukraine on Fire | Victoria Nuland and Geoffrey Pyatt phone call
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGq_Xvzn_3I
Ukraine on Fire | Victoria Nuland and Geoffrey Pyatt phone call Watch and listen as the U.S.
officials discuss and plan the overthrow of a democratically elected president Viktor
Yanukovych in Ukraine. This is undeniable proof of U.S. government and officials organizing
bloody regime change in Ukraine.
Hmmm…maybe he is happy with some IMF developments
Considering this last year IMF was percieved by commentators as uncertain about The Ukraine(https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSL8N1W62PV)
KIEV, Sept. 27 (Xinhua) — The International Monetary Fund (IMF) mission on Friday has left Ukraine after productive discussions about providing Ukraine with a new three-year loan program.
The IMF mission led by Ron van Rooden worked in Kiev during Sept. 12-26, initiating discussions on a new program that could be supported under the IMF’s Extended Fund Facility (EFF).
“The authorities have requested a new IMF-supported program to cover financing needs in the coming years. The mission has had productive discussions on policies for a new program, especially on fiscal and monetary policies, as well as key reform measures,” Van Rooden said in a press briefing.
“Discussions on the new program will continue in the coming weeks,” he added.
At the same time, the monetary fund’s mission head stressed the need to safeguard central bank independence and financial stability, as well as the need to make every effort to minimize the fiscal costs of bank resolutions.
The exact size of the program has yet to be determined but could be around 5-6 billion U.S. dollars. It would replace a standby arrangement of 3.9 billion U.S. dollars that expires next year.”
‘Key reform areas..’, means, in Washington Consensus economic hit-men jargon, more austerity, more social retrenchment, more privatisation looting, more foreign pillaging and more social misery, poverty and suffering.
Mulga
But, but, but… as Kerry’s understudy and budding swamp creature extraordinaire said… the US spent $5billion in Ukraine ‘helping’ the Ukrainians on their way to “gain leadership that respects them, protects them, and provides a modern democratic Govt”!
Warning…do not read these links unless you have considerable intestinal fortitude…the hypocrisy is absolutely monumental.
https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/19/facebook-posts/united-states-spent-5-billion-ukraine-anti-governm/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y0y-JUsPTU
If the tattered old economic hit-man playbook doesn’t work they could always threaten the Libyan model which Bolton to this day admires so much. One thing we can be eternally grateful for in all of this is that HRC never became POTUS… and for more reasons than I could shake a stick at. Not the least of which is the fact that I can almost guarantee she would have immediately installed this foaming at the mouth lunatic Nuland as SOS…could you imagine anything worse than these two psychopaths plotting in tandem.
Truly a terrifying scenario
Col
The Thanatopian and other Western feminazi psychopaths, having abjured their femaleness in order to join the patriarchal power structures, are deadlier than the male. And more loathsome in their unsexed state, like Lady Macbeth, they follow her desire to ‘….fill me from the crown to the toe topful, Of direst cruelty!’.
Dear Mr. Saker, Sir,
You wrote, Every time a President does something the PTB don’t like – they simply impeach him!
I think it is more precise to say that every time a President does something to move the nation away from war, the PTB try to impeach him.
The PTB want war. The question is why, and I think the answer goes deeper than MIC.
If the DNR thinks its good, then God Bless Them.
I don’t like 4 easy steps and give back the border.
I don’t ever want to give back the border.
But, this is for the people who suffered 13,000 dead and wounded, who lose their homes and whose children live in basements.
Zelensky is doing it to get $$$. Putin forced the issue.
It has been a mystery for five years what Putin’s intentions were for Donbass.
Maybe this forces the showdown against the Nazis. It would line up all forces from external sources against the Nazis. Germany, France, Trump (not all the US govt.) and Russia, the EU, the IMF would pressure the Azov, Aydar, Right Sektor and other yahoos out of the government and back to Lviv.
That might result in a breakdown of the unity of Ukraine geographically. Several areas might break from the center. In which case, a natural arising of Novorossiya would occur and everything would have become what was once a dream but became a nightmare for five years.
We shall see how this progresses. Porky and Kolomoisky will work very hard to keep this from going forward. They have much to lose and nothing to gain from the Formula.
Here is a translation of an article regarding the DNR reaction:
The DNR commented on the signing “formula Steinmeier”
01.10.2019 – 19:55
The DNR commented on the signing “formula Steinmeier” | Russian spring
The Minister of foreign Affairs of the DPR representative in the contact group in Minsk Natalia Nikonorova commented on the signing “formula Steinmeier”.
“Despite the abundance of extremely destructive statements from Kiev, we managed to convince the Ukrainian side to agree on a formula Steinmeier in the form in which it was recorded at the summit “Channel four”. It can rightly be called a major diplomatic victory in the negotiations in Minsk — in the first place due to the fact that this step opens up the prospect of further political settlement.In addition, the Ukrainian representatives have fulfilled all the conditions of the Russian side for the summit “Channel four”, which means that it may occur in the near future.
It should be remembered that harmonization formulas Steinmeier sides of the conflict — is important, but more of a symbolic step for the implementation of political items in the package. Ahead of us a huge field of activity, the effectiveness of which depends on the result of the whole Minsk process,” — said Natalia Nikonorova.
First of all, you need to pay attention to the fact that the full implementation of this formula is possible only in the presence of a constitutional Foundation in the form of amendments to the basic law of Ukraine, involving according to paragraph 11, measures the permanent character of the special status of Donbass. Therefore, in parallel with the work on the implementation of the formula Steinmeier, the Ukrainian side needs to start work on constitutional reform.
Second, serious work on making edits to the text of the law on the special status of Donbass, which was still in the year 2015, adopted by the Ukrainian Parliament, then annually extended its first formal article, but in fact it has not worked a single day.
Although, in fairness, it should be noted that the legal norms contained in articles 2-9 of the act, in General, correlated with our fundamental demands: the consolidation of the status of the Russian language and special economic mode, and its law enforcement and judicial system, its prosecutors, a special mode of cooperation with the Russian Federation, Treaty relations with Kiev and many other aspects.
“I want to emphasize that we remain committed to the position that we defend for more than 4 years on the meetings in Minsk: all the actions and steps that affect the fate of Donbass, must be consistent with its immediate representatives. The only way to talk about achieving any really meaningful settlement of the conflict.
The beginning of work to implement, a compromise procedure for the entry into force of the law on the special status of Donbass — is just the first step on the political track, and now Kiev is more important than ever to realize the need for an honest and open dialogue in the name of long-term and stable resumption of peace and prosperity, more than 4 million citizens,” — said the representative of DND.
The teething pain of political reform can be a nuisance.
As I said, curbing corruption in the Ukraine, has its roots in America.
Could the timing of this development be related to the fact the democrat neoliberal/neocon mafia of Nudelman/nuland/Biden/burisma/Clinton and their associated jackals are in deep excrement because their plans to personally profit from Ukraine is on the brink of collapse because Trumpian investigators and the US attorney general’s investigator, John Durham, are closing in? Did zelenski learn something while in Washington?
Isn’t the timing interesting?
Just wondering.
My thoughts exactly, Anaam. But you phrased it much more cogently than I ever could – thanks!
Thank you, Juliania, for your kind reply.
Doubts????
WORLD
2 OCT, 08:05
Zelensky’s statement on new Donbass status law rings alarm bells, expert says
Certainly, neither Russia nor Donbass will recognize any new law on a special status unless they coordinate it, the expert said
Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky Arkhip Vereshagin/TASS
Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky
© Arkhip Vereshagin/TASS
MOSCOW, October 2. /TASS/. Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky’s statement that Ukraine should adopt a new law on a special Donbass status could signal Kiev’s drive to disavow its signing of the Steinmeier formula, Director of the Russian Center for Current Politics Alexei Chesnakov, who is familiar with the talks, told TASS on Wednesday.
“Zelensky’s statement that a new law on a special status of Donbass would be passed, arouses concerns,” Chesnakov said. “This is reminiscent of Poroshenko’s behavior, who immediately sought to disavow his own steps in order to puzzle and con everyone. On the one hand, Zelensky signs the Steinmeier formula that guarantees a special status for Donbass. But on the other hand, he immediately announces that this is not a special status, but some other new status, but it is still unclear which one.”
READ ALSO
German foreign minister commends signing of Steinmeier formula
This mirrors Poroshenko’s drive to dilute the Minsk process, reduce it to imitation and even nonsense, the expert stressed. “Certainly, neither Russia nor Donbass will recognize any new law on a special status unless they coordinate it. The Ukrainian president should submit his ideas for discussion of the Normandy Four (Russia, Ukraine, France and Germany) and the Contact Group,” he said.”
This is exactly correct. Zelensky has no intention of fulfilling the Steinmeier formula.
The only reason he agreed to it is that he was force to. He was told, you either sign it or there is no Normandy forum.
Zelensky intends to water the agreement down to nothing and then force the DPR to accept a nothing agreement by pressuring more sanctions on Russia. Thats why he trying to cosy up to the US so much.
The biggest change of events though is Zelenskys telephone call with Trump where he criticizes the EU for not helping Ukraine. The EU could well be peeved with Zelensky because they give enormous help to Ukraine compared to the US giving almost nothing.
I think when they turn up at the Normandy forum, where there is no US, Zelensky might not be seen as the favoured child but more the spoiled brat.
This is beginning of federalization of Ukraine.
A few days before the nuclear talks with the United States are restored, North Korea has fired another missile. Before Nuclear Talks: Another North Korean missile experiment
Before Nuclear Talks: Another North Korean missile experiment
I remain very skeptical about what zelensky can or will agree to as he has serious constraints in Kiev, e.g. the nazis and importantly, his controller and handler, kolomoisky. To my mind, kolomoisky is the arch zionist thug who has an expansive history of corruption and manipulation and violence.
Attached is a very detailed article, four years old, but brought out now, as the update intro indicates, to provide more understanding as to the political landscape in Kiev. As most regular readers here are well aware and need no further detail on the machinations and corruption of kolomoisky, this may be a tad overkill. However, it is an excellent summary and it needs to be at the forefront of anything about the potential agreements with Kiev:
https://harpers.org/blog/2015/08/undelivered-goods/
I hope the good people of DPR/LPR don’t let their guard down. Talk is cheap, especially when the governing class is vicious criminals. Would anyone trust the empire to live up to any agreement whether signed or orally given? I sure wouldn’t. Even if Zelenski is sincere, which, forgive me but I don’t believe, he has his masters and is surrounded by Fascists who hate all Russians.
The signing of the Contact Groups was on separate sheets of paper. The Ukies refused to sign on the same sheet as the Donbass reps.
That is how far apart Kiev is from actually moving forward.
Lavrov commented on this unusual procedure:
https://ria.ru/20191002/1559362256.html
The truncated four steps of the Formula is perceived quite differently by the Ukies rather than how the Donbass sees the Formula.
Particularly, about turning over the border to the Ukies.
I don’t see how or why this can happen.
This is a make-or-break moment for Ukraine. Either Zelensky follows through with what he signed, Minsk agreements go ahead and Donbass obtains a special status within the Ukrainian state, or Zelensky (and others) renege, and in that case, Donbass pursues independence and eventually attachment to Russia.
I was very surprised, that Zelensky received a visit from Tom Cruise. I remember how Angelina Jolie was turning up in the Balkans, and George Clooney was in Syria with the White Helmets. I wonder, with Cruise’s visit, if there is a PR push to “romanticise” the Ukrainian Nazis’ struggle against Russia. In that case, it means there is still political support in the US for the Nazis.
Interesting that Orlov thinks Zelensky is a non-entity whom no-one wants to talk to. Tom Cruise certainly dressed that way for him. He showed up in jeans, a sweater and un-brushed hair…LOL
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/10/01/amid-impeachment-crisis-tom-cruise-meets-ukrainian-president-kiev/
As a comparison, here is another Hollywood actor, Leonardo di Caprio, dressed in a suit & tie when meeting Putin..
https://sputniknews.com/art_living/201602021034116873-putin-dicaprio-movie-role-casting/
Saker,
How would the general population of Ukraine respond if the fascists overthrew Zelensky and imposed martial law? Would they have the guts or the desire to start the civil war needed to drive the mass murdering maniacs from power? How would the ****ers from NATO respond if this action occurred? Or would most of the country prefer to live under repression rather than put their lives on the line to achieve a genuine revolution that promises true freedom and an honest attempt to develop their backward country, rather than the current charade imposed by homegrown fascist oligarchs and interlopers from Washington, NATO, and the EU?
If not, what in effect would be another coup should Zelensky be overthrown, what do you think is the breaking point of these people? Freezing their ***es off without gas throughout the coming winter, basically for the privilege of spitting in Putin’s eye? When will the Ukie sheep rebel at being so callously shorn by their proclaimed leaders?
And will Washington have the good sense to stay out of it if TSHTF, even if Russia needs to intercede to restore order and stop the kind of carnage promoted by the neocons throughout the Middle East? I know that Putin desperately does not want such a war, but Washington does not have a right to keep starting or fanning the flames of wars and imposing repression all around the globe. At some point its provocations will eventually elicit the dire consequences it seeks.
Both previous world wars were ignited in Eastern Europe (Serbia and Poland) by hubristic Western powers, will Ukraine make it a trifecta? Or will they allow Zelensky to bury the hatchet by a mechanism that seems (to me) to give the Ukie central government most of the loaf? Or must they have it all and with it complete perdition?
Personally I think the federation of Novorussia will be used a carrot for President Putin to feed Iran to the wolves. That’s the vectoring I see (and I’m nobody).
“I am sad to see that, exactly as I predicted, the Nazis are now going after the Zionists of Kolomoiskii.”
A nazi vs zionazi conflict? What’s not to like?