Also on parade are several units of the notorious BUK missile system. This shocked some international observers because Ukraine’s top military brass tried to convince the world’s media two years ago, following the crash of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 on July 17, 2014, that Ukraine had no BUKs. They said the last BUK system in Ukraine had been sold to Georgia.
According to Wiki and based on a reference from ‘Military Balance 2016, page 206’ Ukraine has a total of 72 9K37M1 BUK M1 missiles. This publication is by a Brit think tank called IISS -the International Institute for Strategic Studies and it claims the “Institute owes no allegiance to any government, or to any political or other organisation”.
I still doubt that a ground launched BUK missile brought down MH17. Too much noise and lingering smoke trail that someone would have seen. I can believe either an on-board device or an air-to-air missile, the latter perhaps even ‘salted’ with BUK shrapnel.
AP did an article on Ukraine BUK missiles on the frontlines several weeks before MH17 was shot down.
There would be no smoke trail near MH17 if the missile was launched from any distance. the rocket motor burns for about 14 seconds to get altitude and velocity then the missile glides in a ballistic trajectory.
According to the “investigation” there was heavy cloud to the south at that time, with low cloud base and showers of rain. If that were the case, the missile would soon be into the cloud cover and the smoke trail from the rocket engine burn would not be seen.
this fits with John Kerry’s early statements to the media – that they had detected the launch, observed the trajectory and detected the explosion. It was quite clear from Kerry’s wording that the US had not observed the full flight of the missile. Only the launch, the motor burn and the explosion heat traces. This also fits with Almaz-Antey tests. To get the shrapnel pattern on an aircraft fuselage the missile had to be in a slightly nose down position which indicates it was in the downward stage of a ballistic trajectory. Both Kerry’s statement and also the Almaz-Antey report fit with the Russian MoD satellite pictures of Ukraine BUK missile launchers well to the south of the crash site.
The main heat flare is at launch and I believe the US have the exact co-ordinates of the launch point. As they detect the heat trace, the can only detect the launch, the rocket motor burn, and the explosion, but cannot track it by the same methods when the missile is gliding on a ballistic trajectory.
They have four geo-stationary satellites specifically for detecting missile launches, plus had a mil sat directly over the site at that time.
I respectfully disagree and there are many conflicting expert opinions -but regardless it would be welcome for the truth to surface one day.
From the weather shown at the crash site it looks like broken Cu that’s at some considerable height.
The BUK launch would be heard from miles away and the solid rocket trail would drift from surface to cloud cover and above. It can persist for 10-20 minutes.
I don’t know how much noise a BUK makes as it breaks the sound barrier but I don’t think it is at all stealthy. Nobody in a populated rural area heard or saw a thing. Very suspicious.
A number of the witnesses reported two explosions. I thought that perhaps the first explosion could have been a sonic boom. I do not know what a missile sounds like when it breaks the sound barrier either. I studied the photographs, especially from when the last of the cockpit was lifted and the angles of the impact marks all seem to have originated from a single point. So one missile explosion yet the witnesses heard two?
Would a large air to air missile leave a smoke trail that could be seen? Although there was one perhaps two military aircraft there at the time, I don’t think MH17 was hit by cannon fire.
In a rural setting a BUK launch would be hear from far away and even if the trail was disrupted by strong winds and low cloud the whole area is flat and the initial ground launch smoke is extensive.
I concede the launch could be confused with an explosion and the 14 second burn could also be mistaken for a fighter jet. Regarding the two explosions that were heard by witnesses close to the crash site -is there any information on how much time elapsed between them?
If MH17 was hit by cannon fire I think it would be in addition to an air-to-air.
The biggest problem with this is that there were BUK systems with active radars at the time as well as launchers within range, plus there was one, possibly two Ukraine military aircraft with or in the near vicinity of MH17 when it was shot down. The fact that there has been no witnesses to a possible missile launch come forward is the one missing piece of a jigsaw puzzle that for me is otherwise complete.
I guess we will be long gone by the time anything is declassified and released to the public so that we will know 100% what happened.
The Russian government went to a lot of expense to set up a demonstration with the BUK missile and not an air to air missile. Perhaps an indication of what the Russian government think/believe brought down MH17?
Is the ‘BUK’ a convenient distraction?
I found this to be a very rational analysis:
5th episode: “It was a MIG”
“Our project is called the “MH17 Inquiry”. Our contributors are independent Russian and international journalists, experts and scientists. We set ourselves the task of dragging this case away from the realms of politics and conspiracy theories into the realm of facts and the deductive method”
I posted this as in Australia the free (cough) press pushed the fact that the Junta government had no buk systems as sold to Georgeia.
I really don’t know what took place and we may never know and the fact it was politicized and weaponized don’t settle good we me being anti establishment.
Unlike my government I do not trust the Ukrainians.
As far as Clinton starting WW3, even if you forget the russian nukes, it is a long cold walk to Novosibirsk. She also needs China and Russia to continue paying for the humongous american debt by staying in the current financial system.
I think that people like her are always worried that they will end up like Beresovsky. It is not easy on her health.
“When White House officials insisted the US would set the rules for its own leader, her Chinese counterpart shot back.
“This is our country! This is our airport!” the Chinese official yelled.”
Good for the Chinese. The pindo emperor and his zionazi entourage should always be put in their proper place. IE: treated as the dog feces they are. :D
Good show [BTW… about time Cross-Talk came back from its August hibernation when all these stuff if going on in the meanwhile.. (!)]
I particularly liked it when Peter had a spontaneous slip-of-the-tongue and he called Hillary: “Killary,” then he promptly and swiftly corrected himself (of course! Being the gentleman he is)
But the cat is out the bag there, Pete ;-)
Also on parade are several units of the notorious BUK missile system. This shocked some international observers because Ukraine’s top military brass tried to convince the world’s media two years ago, following the crash of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 on July 17, 2014, that Ukraine had no BUKs. They said the last BUK system in Ukraine had been sold to Georgia.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/08/30/in-ukraine-independence-from-the-people/
According to Wiki and based on a reference from ‘Military Balance 2016, page 206’ Ukraine has a total of 72 9K37M1 BUK M1 missiles. This publication is by a Brit think tank called IISS -the International Institute for Strategic Studies and it claims the “Institute owes no allegiance to any government, or to any political or other organisation”.
I still doubt that a ground launched BUK missile brought down MH17. Too much noise and lingering smoke trail that someone would have seen. I can believe either an on-board device or an air-to-air missile, the latter perhaps even ‘salted’ with BUK shrapnel.
AP did an article on Ukraine BUK missiles on the frontlines several weeks before MH17 was shot down.
There would be no smoke trail near MH17 if the missile was launched from any distance. the rocket motor burns for about 14 seconds to get altitude and velocity then the missile glides in a ballistic trajectory.
According to the “investigation” there was heavy cloud to the south at that time, with low cloud base and showers of rain. If that were the case, the missile would soon be into the cloud cover and the smoke trail from the rocket engine burn would not be seen.
this fits with John Kerry’s early statements to the media – that they had detected the launch, observed the trajectory and detected the explosion. It was quite clear from Kerry’s wording that the US had not observed the full flight of the missile. Only the launch, the motor burn and the explosion heat traces. This also fits with Almaz-Antey tests. To get the shrapnel pattern on an aircraft fuselage the missile had to be in a slightly nose down position which indicates it was in the downward stage of a ballistic trajectory. Both Kerry’s statement and also the Almaz-Antey report fit with the Russian MoD satellite pictures of Ukraine BUK missile launchers well to the south of the crash site.
The main heat flare is at launch and I believe the US have the exact co-ordinates of the launch point. As they detect the heat trace, the can only detect the launch, the rocket motor burn, and the explosion, but cannot track it by the same methods when the missile is gliding on a ballistic trajectory.
They have four geo-stationary satellites specifically for detecting missile launches, plus had a mil sat directly over the site at that time.
I respectfully disagree and there are many conflicting expert opinions -but regardless it would be welcome for the truth to surface one day.
From the weather shown at the crash site it looks like broken Cu that’s at some considerable height.
The BUK launch would be heard from miles away and the solid rocket trail would drift from surface to cloud cover and above. It can persist for 10-20 minutes.
I don’t know how much noise a BUK makes as it breaks the sound barrier but I don’t think it is at all stealthy. Nobody in a populated rural area heard or saw a thing. Very suspicious.
A number of the witnesses reported two explosions. I thought that perhaps the first explosion could have been a sonic boom. I do not know what a missile sounds like when it breaks the sound barrier either. I studied the photographs, especially from when the last of the cockpit was lifted and the angles of the impact marks all seem to have originated from a single point. So one missile explosion yet the witnesses heard two?
Would a large air to air missile leave a smoke trail that could be seen? Although there was one perhaps two military aircraft there at the time, I don’t think MH17 was hit by cannon fire.
There are several youtube BUK videos:
Launch at 10:27 -mega smoke trail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQhAiHvwqCY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgxPa3ubkWQ
Gives some idea of noise at 1:44:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwnUtIn9Rh8
1:19 launch and some idea of noise and trail at 4:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXgToM8cbBI
In a rural setting a BUK launch would be hear from far away and even if the trail was disrupted by strong winds and low cloud the whole area is flat and the initial ground launch smoke is extensive.
I concede the launch could be confused with an explosion and the 14 second burn could also be mistaken for a fighter jet. Regarding the two explosions that were heard by witnesses close to the crash site -is there any information on how much time elapsed between them?
If MH17 was hit by cannon fire I think it would be in addition to an air-to-air.
The biggest problem with this is that there were BUK systems with active radars at the time as well as launchers within range, plus there was one, possibly two Ukraine military aircraft with or in the near vicinity of MH17 when it was shot down. The fact that there has been no witnesses to a possible missile launch come forward is the one missing piece of a jigsaw puzzle that for me is otherwise complete.
I guess we will be long gone by the time anything is declassified and released to the public so that we will know 100% what happened.
The Russian government went to a lot of expense to set up a demonstration with the BUK missile and not an air to air missile. Perhaps an indication of what the Russian government think/believe brought down MH17?
Is the ‘BUK’ a convenient distraction?
I found this to be a very rational analysis:
5th episode: “It was a MIG”
“Our project is called the “MH17 Inquiry”. Our contributors are independent Russian and international journalists, experts and scientists. We set ourselves the task of dragging this case away from the realms of politics and conspiracy theories into the realm of facts and the deductive method”
https://youtu.be/0phakc1d-1M
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOxniqHwXrUV2S6RZIIycEg/videos
I posted this as in Australia the free (cough) press pushed the fact that the Junta government had no buk systems as sold to Georgeia.
I really don’t know what took place and we may never know and the fact it was politicized and weaponized don’t settle good we me being anti establishment.
Unlike my government I do not trust the Ukrainians.
As far as Clinton starting WW3, even if you forget the russian nukes, it is a long cold walk to Novosibirsk. She also needs China and Russia to continue paying for the humongous american debt by staying in the current financial system.
I think that people like her are always worried that they will end up like Beresovsky. It is not easy on her health.
Barack Obama Receives Chilly Welcome for G20 in China
http://sputniknews.com/asia/20160904/1044954885/obama-arrives-g20-china.html
“When White House officials insisted the US would set the rules for its own leader, her Chinese counterpart shot back.
“This is our country! This is our airport!” the Chinese official yelled.”
Good for the Chinese. The pindo emperor and his zionazi entourage should always be put in their proper place. IE: treated as the dog feces they are. :D
geez the way Obama shakes hands eh ? Forcing the other person to his rhythm…I bet he’s had hours of training in that.
That is nothing to the “words” the Philippines President had for Obama:
“Philippines leader calls Obama ‘son of a b****,’ rejects lecturing from US on human rights”
https://www.rt.com/usa/358357-obama-duterte-president-asean/
I think I “smell” a color revolution coming to Manila “sooner rather than later”. Nuland is probably baking cookies right now.
Good show [BTW… about time Cross-Talk came back from its August hibernation when all these stuff if going on in the meanwhile.. (!)]
I particularly liked it when Peter had a spontaneous slip-of-the-tongue and he called Hillary: “Killary,” then he promptly and swiftly corrected himself (of course! Being the gentleman he is)
But the cat is out the bag there, Pete ;-)
Shhhhh… don’t worry! I won’t tell anyone!
-TL2Q