Translated by Gleb Bazov
Part I of Dissecting the Evidence
————————–
FINAL – Part I: Emerging Evidence Points to #MH17 Being a Ukrainian False Flag
Translated by Gleb Bazov
Combined Sources
July 17, 2014 – Examination of Available Evidence Manufactured by Ukraine
Video: BUSTED! Ukraine Caught Trying to ‘Frame Russia’ for Shooting Down Malaysia Flight MH17!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28MrASx-RiM
July 17, 2014 – Michael McFaul Speaks
Volunteer militia do not have the training to shoot sophisticated antiaircraft weapons
— Michael McFaul (@McFaul) July 17, 2014
July 17, 2014 – “Proof of Rebel Responsibility” Video Faked & Uploaded 1 Day Earlier
Video Originally Created and First Uploaded: July 16, 2014, 19:10:24
Vide Re-Uploaded to YouTube for Second Time: July 18, 2014 00:09:00
Original Source: Gmorder LiveJournal
The Shooting-Down of Boeing Was Planned By Ukies
Video: “Intercepts” Between Militia Commanders Manufactured by Ukrainians
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwtxBA1m9x8
On the video you can see a mix-up in timings, so people started digging, and voila – here is the first video (identical to the video now being offered as proof of the involvement of Militia): RGHost Download
At 1:09 the time of 17:32 froze
Looks like SBU [Ukrainian Security Service] operatives were in a hurry.
However, that is not all of it, by far.
Let’s look at the creation date of the video: 2014-07-16 19:10:24
The creation date cannot be changed in any manner, other than by re-creating and re-uploading the video at a future date.
Let’s look at the re-upload date: 2014-07-18 00:09:00
If this is not proof, then I have no idea what would count as proof.
NOTE: Adding or subtracting the suggested 14 hours, 10 hours or 4 hours difference (or any combination thereof) due to, respectively, California or UTC local time, from either of the timings does not fix the problem.
July 17, 2014 – CNN Claims Storm Diverted MH17’s Course, But Shown To Be False
@gbazov @GrayCardinal1 No storm. http://t.co/NpQbtGMEHF
— Rosa Luxembourgeoise (@RosaLuxembourge) July 17, 2014
July 17, 2014 – The Timing of News Indicates a False-Flag Operation by Ukraine
Original Source: Anatolii Sharii FaceBook – via Valentina Lisitsa (@ValLisitsa)
LATEST NEWS:
17:49 – A Source: A passanger aircraft was shot down in the Donetsk region
17:26 – Ukrainian SNBO [National Security Council] claims that the rebels have equipment that can shoot down planes at high elevations
17:23 – UEFA split Russian and Ukrainian soccer clubs in European Cups.
17:12 – Poroshenko is chairing a meeting of Ukrainian SNBO.
.@gbazov this snapshot speaks volumes. Look at a timing of the announcement! via @anatoliisharii pic.twitter.com/n8AN3kHBUQ — Valentina Lisitsa (@ValLisitsa) July 17, 2014
FINAL – Part II: Evidence Continues to Emerge #MH17 Is a False Flag Operation
Key Information in Reverse Chronological Order
#15 – Dissecting the Fake Intercept Disseminated by SBU (Ukrainian Security Service)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5E8kDo2n6g
Note: Half of the Post Translated; The Remaining Half is Speculative
Complete Original of the Post (in Russian) Can Be Found at Eugene-DF LiveJournal
In the disseminated intercept, the place from which the missile was allegedly launched is clearly indicated: the checkpoint at the settlement of Chernukhino.
Pay close attention at the Alleged Map of the MH17 Catastrophe.
As you can see, the distance from the point of launch to the point of the fall is 37 kilometres. At the same time, the elevation of the plane was 10-11 kilometres. For the Russian BUK M2 this distance is, in fact, achievable (although with a very important caveat discussed below).
However, Ukraine does not, and cannot, have modern digital high-tech Anti-Aircraft systems in its arsenal. What it does have, at best, is the older version BUK M1. The system itself is not too bad, and could even fit the stated distance. Except for the caveat that was mentioned.
The thing is that most short to medium range Anti-Aircraft systems work extremely poorly in a “pursuit” mode. There are a number of reasons for this, and I do not intend to belabor the point, but you can take it as an axiom that when the launch is made in “pursuit” of the target, the maximum distance of the launch that successfully hits the target is at least half of the advertised maximum distance (in reality, it even worse, but let’s leave aside the sad part). Accordingly, the real distance of a “pursuit” launch for BUK M1 is 16 kilometres. What’s more, the last 3 kilometres are purely “God willing” and “without guarantees.”
And, so, we have the background. Let’s see how the picture unfolds:
The launch is alleged to have been made from Chernukhino. The maximum distance of the launch is 16 kilometres. The aircraft fell between Snezhnoye and Torez. That’s 37 kilometres, which is 20 kilometres more than the maximum possible point at which the plain could have been hit. You know, even a plane with turned-off engines can’t glide like that. But the trouble is that the aircraft was not whole.
According to the pattern of the spread of fuselage fragments and bodies, the plane was ruptured practically with the first shot. Here it must be mentioned that the high-explosive/fragmentation warhead of the rocket has a mass of approximately 50 kilograms (by the way, Ukrainians have an outdated modification, which is only 40 kilograms).
Overall, that’s not too little; however, it must be understood that it detonates not when it sticks into an airplane, but when it is still at a certain, and fairly significant distance. Moreover, the main strike factor is not the blast wave, but far more significantly – the stream of fragments. These fragments are previously prepared rods (and in the earlier versions – little cubes, if I recall correctly). And yes, for a jet fighter, that, in itself, is more than sufficient.
However, here we are dealing with a huge airliner. Yes, one rocket will rip the casing, cause depressurization, and will kill a lot of passengers. But it will not break up the airliner into pieces. Given certain conditions, the pilots may even be able to land it. And, in fact, there have been precedents (to be provided in future posts). For example – the very same An-28, which is alleged to have been the first victim of a BUK system; even though it was done for, but the crew was able to successfully catapult out. Which, in some way, symbolizes. An An-28, by the way, is far smaller than a Boeing.
Nevertheless, this has relation to the next part of our analysis. For now, let’s accept as a fact the break-up of the aircraft in the air, at a significant height (which is, in essence, what was observed. Allow me to remind you: “fragments spread over a radius of 15 kilometres.” The key here is that this means the following: the aircraft (or, more precisely, the core of the aircraft) fell literally at the point where the rocket impacted it. Clarifying: as soon as the aircraft turned into a host of fragments of different mass, the separation of these fragments began due to air resistance and the difference in inertia. The densest fragment flew a further 3-6 kilometres, falling more and more steeply. The lightest – spread out and, due to gliding and air currents, fell somewhere within a 10 kilometre radius. The medium ones (primarily pieces of casing with high sail-effect and the victims’ bodies) – fell almost vertically.
In other words, the rocket caught up to the plane no closer than 25 kilometres away from Chernukhino. Which is absolutely impossible for a BUK system.
By the way, we can’t overlook the fact that, at maximum distances, BUK can be used only provided there is support from an external radar installation for location and guiding purposes. In other words, even if a rockets flies far, BUK’s mobile radar does not cover its entire distance.
Accordingly, if SBU’s video above is not fake, then, to our surprise, we discover that it was literally impossible for the aircraft to be shot down by the rebel’s BUK. By the way, what exactly this BUK was doing in Chernukhino with the Cossacks is pretty much inexplicable. It is 60 kilometres whether you go to Donetsk or to Lugansk from there, and this BUK would be unable to protect the skies over either of the key cities. Nor are there any hostilities in the area. It’s also strange for the Militia to expect enemy planes there – it’s not like the pilots are their own enemies to make such detours over the enemy’s territory, is it? Well, all right. As I already stated, let’s accept, for the moment, that the intercept is not fake.
And that is what is so strange here: SBU literally offers evidence that proves that that the Militia had no part in the shooting down of the Boeing! The fact that they blame themselves in the recording is quite understandable. Unlike the fascists, they have a conscience, which takes its toll until you are sure it was not you who did it.
Ok. But somebody did, in fact, shoot down the plane?
Of course it was shot down. And here we have another question: what if this recording is a falsification through and through? Then it had to have been prepared somehow? And then disseminated?
That’s when smoke starts to clear, and mirrors – to break.
That’s the problem with tricks.
#14 – An Industry Outlet Confirms Carlos (@spainbuca) as ATC at Borispol Airport in Kiev
Original: EturboNews (ETN Global Travel Industry News) – July 17, 2014
ETN received information from an air traffic controller in Kiev on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.
This Kiev air traffic controller is a citizen of Spain and was working in the Ukraine. He was taken off duty as a civil air-traffic controller along with other foreigners immediately after a Malaysia Airlines passenger aircraft was shot down over the Eastern Ukraine killing 295 passengers and crew on board.
The air traffic controller suggested in a private evaluation and basing it on military sources in Kiev, that the Ukrainian military was behind this shoot down. Radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.
Military air traffic controllers in internal communication acknowledged the military was involved, and some military chatter said they did not know where the order to shoot down the plane originated from.
Obviously it happened after a series of errors, since the very same plane was escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets until 3 minutes before it disappeared from radar.
Radar screen shots also show an unexplained change of course of the Malaysian Boeing. The change of course took the aircraft directly over the Eastern Ukraine conflict region.
Some tweets received suggest this may have been a secret military uprising against the current Ukrainian president under the direction of formerly-jailed Prime Minister Timoshenko.
According to other rumors, the black box for this crashed Malaysian Airlines flight was taken by Donetsk separatists. A spokesperson for the rebel group said this black box would be sent to the Interstate Aviation Committee headquartered in Moscow.
The First Deputy Prime Minister of the self-proclaimed People’s Republic of Donetsk, Andrew Purgin, stated that the flight recorders of the crashed aircraft will be transferred to Moscow for examination.
Sources say the Rebel group leadership hopes this would confirm the Ukrainian military actually shot down this aircraft. This was reported by the news agency Interfax-Ukraine.
ETN statement: The information in this article is independently confirmed and based on the statement of one airline controller and other tweets received.
#13 – A Brief Well-Made Presentation Regarding Ukraine’s Manufactured Evidence
Video: Paul J. Watson – “Evidence to Frame Russia For MH17 Shoot Down Fabricated?”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMgIpC-bCfQ
#12 – Analysis from an Aerodynamics/Physics Standpoint – Ukrainian Army Responsible
RESUME OF ANALYSIS: What all this means is that if a BUK rocket was launched from the territory controlled by the Militia, the Boeing would have fallen much further to the south-east – i.e. will into the Russian territory. Otherwise, there would have been not time to detect the aircraft, perform electronic capture and launch the rocket. If this was a BUK, and not a jet fighter, then it is most likely that the launch was made from the territory controlled by the Ukrainian army, and the rocket was sent “chasing after” the airplane.
Original: 4yma3iy LiveJournal
I am not an aerodynamics specialist. I am a radioelectronics expert. Nevertheless, I specialize in aviation. If there are aerodynamics specialists here, please critique away.
Initial Data: the plane’s elevation is 10,000 metres, speed is 900 km/h (or 250 m/s).
Judging from the photos from the site of the crash, where all the pieces lie together in one place, it appears that the plane fell as a whole (i.e. some fragments may have broken off, but the fuselage remained intact). So, the aircraft well “as one piece” – i.e. it did not break apart in the air.
Accordingly, it must be considered as one body, the speed of which has a very large dependence on air resistance, particularly given the design features and its intended use.
The time of a body’s free fall:
T = sqrt(2h/g)
Thus, from a height of 10,000 metres, a body will fall:
T = sqrt(2*10000/9.8) = 45 second – HOWEVER! – this applies only in vacuum.
At the same time, the downward velocity when falling from this height is:
V = sqrt(2gh)
This speed will equal 442 m/s – HOWEVER! – this, once again, applies only in vacuum.
In real-life conditions a fall happens with a certain maximum speed, at which the force of air resistance becomes equal to the force of gravity. For a person’s body, for instance, this speed is equal to 40 m/s. For a bullet, this speed is approximately 50 m/s (depending on form and mass). Given the plane’s mass and its enormous size, let’s take this speed to be 40 m/s.
Accordingly, the plane would have been falling approximately 250 second – let’s round it off to 4 minutes, which is quite close to what happened.
Let’s accept that the reduction of horizontal speed also occurs pursuant to a linear equation with certain acceleration.
The vector of the force of front air resistance is directed against the speed of movement, and its magnitude is proportional to characteristic area S, density of the environment ρ, and speed V squared:
V=C((P*V^2)/2)*S
For the aerodynamically well-designed body of an aircraft, Cx < 0.3
Let’s calculate the force of air resistance at the speed of 250 m/s
0.3*1.26*250*250/2*50=590кН
The mass of Boeing 777 = 300 ton (in equipped state)
It means that horizontal deceleration due to air resistance would be 590/300 = 2 m/s^2 – just as I suspected (however, this is at the maximum speed).
Now, let’s take our favourite highschool equation:
X=(V1^2-V0^2)/2a
Given the nonlinear nature of deceleration, divide it in half – and we get 31 kilometres.
Let’s consider the strike distance of the rocket. Maximum strike distance of AGM-86 ALSM rocket:
At the height of 30 m – 20 km
At the height of 6,000 m – 26 km
The chance of a successful strike: 0.6 – 0.8
This distance should not be mistaken for the distance of detection.
Map: Yellow Pin to the West = Estimated Rocket Launch Location; Yellow Pin To the East = Crash Site
What all this means is that if a BUK rocket was launched from the territory controlled by the Militia, the Boeing would have fallen much further to the south-east – i.e. will into the Russian territory. Otherwise, there would have been not time to detect the aircraft, perform electronic capture and launch the rocket.
If this was a BUK, and not a jet fighter, then it is most likely that the launch was made from the territory controlled by the Ukrainian army, and the rocket was sent “chasing after” the airplane.
#11 – Changing MH17 Route From July 14, 2014 to July 17, 2014
Screenshots of Flight Paths of MH17 for July 14-17, 2014
#10 – Eyewitness Recounts a Fighter Jet and 3 Explosions When MH17 Was Shot Down
Audio Recording Link: Cassad Net
Transcript of the Eyewitness Phone CallI
have a single sheet of paper that fell from the plane, with fresh blood – you can see it. Baggage also fell, further, in the area of the Petropavlovka settlement – there are fragments there. There is a group in VKontakte that already posted photos with pieces from the Boeing. Also, beyond Rassypnoye, near Terrikon, there are corpses. There were people there, and they saw it all.
I saw, personally, that there were 3 explosions. The first, the second and the third. So, after the first explosions I went up on the roof and saw that a plane was falling – it was already almost at the ground. There was an explosion, a black cloud, and two parachutists were descending – one was descending on his parachute on the wing. The second was flying down very fast – like a stone. And that is what I saw.
However, at that very same moment, a jet fighter was departing in the direction of Debaltsevo. It was over Rassypnoye and was flying toward Debaltsevo. How I understood it.
#9 – 11:53-12:40 – July 18, 2014 – Information Regarding the Boeing from Igor Strelkov
– regarding Boeing 777, Flight MH17:
Igor Strelkov: According to the information received from the people who collected the corpses, a large number of the corpses are “not fresh” – these are people who died a few days ago. I cannot vouch for complete accuracy of this information – of course, we will have to wait for conclusions from forensic specialists.
– “Somebody of course must have been piloting this plane, which, to boot, would be impossible to leave. The theory that the plane was full of dead people is, of course, breathtaking; however, it does not seem to make sense.”
Igor Strelkov: First of all, not all the people in the plane were dead prior to the fall.
Second, a large quantity of medication, including blood serum and so forth, was found in the airplane, which is not characteristic of a regular airliner. It looks like there was some kind of special medical cargo on board.
Third, I do not insist on anything (for now). It’s just that only moments ago I spoke with two individuals who personally gathered the corpses after the crash (both of them are from Shakhtersk and arrived at the scene less than half an hour after the catastrophe). I am writing exactly what they told me. They emphasized that a large number of the corpses were “completely bloodless” – it’s as if their blood clotted long before the catastrophe. They also remarked that there was an overwhelming putrid corpse stench, which was also noted by many locals – a smell like that could not have formed in half an hour in any weather, let alone in the cloudy, temperate weather we had yesterday.
Fourth, while I am usually very suspicious of any “conspiracy theories” myself, but the 18 of our fighters that were poisoned with chemical weapons at their positions in Semyonovka, the executions of the militiamen’s family members and all other “small joys of Ukie patriots” have convinced me that the Ukrainian government is capable of any villainy.
The pilots were, of course, perfectly alive – the entire cabin (and the front part is well preserved) was literally bathed in their blood.
#8 – Ukrainian Military Reports to Poroshenko That Rebels Have Not Captured any BUKs
According to Vitaliy Yarema, in an interview to Ukrainskaya Pravda, military officials reported to President Poroshenko immediately after the shooting down of Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777, Flight MH17, that the rebels have not captured any BUK systems from the Ukrainian Armed Forces. This is further confirmed in a statement by the Ukrainian Ministry of Defence, published on June 30, 2014.
Further Information: “Militias do not have Ukrainian Buk missile system – Ukraine general prosecutor”
KIEV, July 18. /ITAR-TASS/. Militias in the self-proclaimed Donetsk and Luhansk people’s republics do not have Ukrainian air defense missile systems Buk and S-300 at their disposal, Ukrainian Prosecutor-General Vitaly Yarema told Ukrainian Pravda newspaper on Friday.
“After the passenger airliner was downed, the military reported to the president that terrorists do not have our air defense missile systems Buk and S-300,” the general prosecutor said. “These weapons were not seized,” he added.
Ukrainian Interior Minister Anton Gerashchenko said on July 17 that the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 airliner had been downed by an air defense missile system Buk.
The Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 airliner on the way from the Dutch city of Amsterdam to the Malaysian capital of Kuala Lumpur crashed in Ukraine on Thursday. All 298 people abroad the airliner died in the crash.
#7 – Eyewitness States Two Planes Following MH17, One Of the Craft Shot Down Boeing
Video: Father of Eyewitness Tells of the Crash of Boeing MH17 Over Ukraine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPcbFJSGk7E
Transcript of the Video
Narrator: Who shot it down? Today it was shot down, on [July] 17th.
Narrator: Continuing. The village of Grabovo. How was it? What did you son tell you?
Father of Eyewitness: Well, they were sitting there, on a hill. And, from behind the clouds … two airplanes were flying … one of the came out from behind the clouds.
Narrator: Military planes emerged?
Father of Eyewitness: Well, he does not understand. Then, with one shot, they shot down the second. And that’s it. The second plane, he says – with one shot. There was one shot and that’s it.
Narrator: And the one that was shot down was the civilian one? …
Father of Eyewitness: And two … one fell down, he says, and the second too … I did not bring my phone here, so I can’t call him.
[in the background] Ah, he saw a jet fighter … Of course …
Narrator: The village of Grabovo, in the Shakhtersk district. One the approaches to Grabovo, it fell. Keep looking for remains. Everything is burning. Aluminum has melted. All the casing.
#6 – Analysis from Anatolii Sharii
Video: The Tragedy of Boeing 777
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzcKcyHG_CY
Transcript of the Video
If we try to forget the shock that I, along with my beloved Netherlands, are currently experiencing over this tragedy, and try to make sense of this situation unemotionally, as much as it can be possible, then the very first steps of the analysis of the fate of this flight inspire very terrifying, saddening thoughts.
A Ukrainian journalist, Olga Bondarenko, identified this information and the two of us, as we are together at the moment, came to certain conclusions. The following is provided to you without commentary.
[the following is screen text]
The flight path for July 15, 2014
The flight path for July 16, 2014
How it flew on July 17, 2014
Here is where it was shot down
Let us overlay the flight path onto the map of Ukraine
This is the regular flight path
The flight path on July 17, 2014
The deviation from the regular flight path
An unidentified flying object enters the area where they should be no aircraft
Who shot down the Boeing?
condolences …
#5 – Video Material From the Site of MH17 Crash via LifeNews
Video: Exclusive Footage from the Site of Boeing’s Crash
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfsV7ZcF2oI
#4 – Possible Alternative Video of MH17, Right Wing on Fire (via Vaughan Fomularo)
UPDATE: Dann Peroni (@roamer43) The video “#4 – Possible Alternative Video of MH17, Right Wing on Fire (via Vaughan Fomularo)” shows a clear blue sky, while in all other videos showing the crash site the sky is overcast!
Video: Malaysian Airlines plane being shot down LIVE! (July 17 2014)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKIlueJg4cA
#3 – Examining the Tickets and the Passports of Passengers of Flight MH17
Passports are hole-punched – this is what is done to passports when they are cancelled.
@McFaul @gbazov The date on the ticket? Holes on the passport? What is it? pic.twitter.com/RxJBeob9dy
— Татьяна Кузьмина (@nika4888) July 18, 2014
#2 – Comparing the Form of the Wing in the Video with the Wings of Boeing
@gbazov clearly the wings of the plane in the video are not the ones of a Malaysian Boeing 777 pic.twitter.com/oH9L4WjFqF — Crimea&East (@IndependentKrym) July 18, 2014
#1 – Video Purporting to be that of MH17 is Actually the Video of An-26 Shot Down Earlier
#FLASH #IMPORTANT – THIS —> https://t.co/e0FiVFdAM2 IS NOT #MH17, it’s most likely the An-26 (sound, elevation, form of the wing). PLZ RT. — Gleb Bazov (@gbazov) July 18, 2014
Now, this is obviously not for the ADHD afflicted audiences. Apart from that, this a FREAKING TOP NOTCH WORK!!!!!! Thank you!
Thanks for this excellent digest of emerging reports and analysis. The case for USA/Kiev Junta terrorism as opposed to resistance error grows more and more convincing.
If anyone has a moment, wouldn’t mind a precis of this
(Borodai on the crash)
dead bodies could be infected
The ticket reads Bali, it is an onward flight ticket from KL.
Physical evidence posted here suggests MH17 was actually hit by an AIR-TO-AIR missile – not SAM: https://www.facebook.com/TruthfromUkraine/photos/a.1462094710680543.1073741828.1452285018328179/1522011961355484/?type=1
Original in Russian: http://bobik-57.livejournal.com/1335504.html
This would tend to implicate Ukie air force…
On a (somewhat) unrelated note, Wolfstreet believes that, over the long term, western sanctions might actually have some beneficial impact on Russia.
Is it not an amazing coincidence that one Malayan plane MH370 ‘disappears’ in March, and then ‘another’ Malayan Boeing 777 is shot down, and it is reported that the people/corpses showed signs they had died previous to being shot down?
Forensics of the highest order are called for.
I completely agree. Statistically for the same airliner to have such bad luck twice…even if they aren’t the bodies of Mh370 I do think both incidents are connected.
EU supports the fascist junta with a police mission.
“DRAFT CIVCOM ADVICE ON THE CRISIS MANAGEMENT CONCEPT FOR A CIVILIAN CSDP MISSION IN SUPPORT OF SECURITY SECTOR REFORM IN UKRAINE
…
CIVCOM emphasised the crucial importance of a Ukrainian lead on,
and buy-into, security sector reform efforts at all levels, and across the country. All EU assistance to Ukrainian civilian security sector reform will have to take Ukrainian needs and EU interests into account. To ensure a comprehensive approach, this assistance should be carried out in full coordination through the EU Delegation fully respecting various competencies and the Mission ́s chain of command.”
http://www.statewatch.org/news/2014/jun/eu-council-civcom-ukraine.pdf
http://www.statewatch.org/news/2014/jun/eu-council-crisis-management-ukraine.pdf
This is just superb, all in one place. The reasoning based on real data reminds me of Hersh’s articles on gas attacks in Syria and the work of MIT folks on the radius of missiles used (which was 3 miles inside rebel lines in Damascus). This paragraph is very persuasive: “The launch is alleged to have been made from Chernukhino. The maximum distance of the launch is 16 kilometres. The aircraft fell between Snezhnoye and Torez. That’s 37 kilometres, which is 20 kilometres more than the maximum possible point at which the plain could have been hit. You know, even a plane with turned-off engines can’t glide like that. But the trouble is that the aircraft was not whole.”
Advice to Putin and the Militia:
Win the war. Disintegrate Ukraine.
The Victors write the history.
Everything less is failure and doom.
Oh, one more thing: the West are not your partners. Maybe some of the businesses in the West are good partners, but none of the governments are.
Did anyone come to the Eastern Front in WWII and partner with you?
They want you all dead and gone.
Remember that when you speak about them.
They are your ‘nimicu’, as my grandfather from Corleone would say. “enemy”
Sun Tzu:
It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles;
What is essential in war is victory, not prolonged operations.
Speed is the essence of war.
Maybe is better to clarify the date of 18-July on a connection ticket (before it becomes embarrassing ): it’s normal practice to get at the start of a multipoint aerial trip all the tickets. It’s quite obvious that was a ticket for the next day flight from Kuala Lumpur (Malaysian time).
Also, if we start going down the slippery path of claiming the bodies were dead already and if we end up with a lot of angry relatives from Holland recognizing bodies, it will be a very bad blow to the image of Strelkov. I’m aware of the existing similar plane somewhere in Israhell for several months waiting for a false-flag, but if this is not case now ?
I will advise the rebels to make as many pictures as possible, record all the names of passengers and any potential proof of internal/external explosives. Try to get mobile phones that are not damaged. There might be pictures if there were fighter jets escorting this plane. I definitely would have taken pictures if fighter jets were around my plane.
This does not convince as an true investigation would.
For instance modifying creation date is ver easy, at least zith a Mac and probably Linux (don’t know for windows).
And the falling path as to take care of the wind, earth rotation and inertia at 1000 km/h.
Proof that is not the separatists is that the dog did not bark : US satellites did not record the place at that time, the dog is saying.
This report is overdoing it a bit.
– Dead bodies: so what happened to the passengers who were in the plane and still alive when they entered?
– blood: first time I hear it
– location: Torez is right at the entrance of the cauldron and the region has been bombed quite a bit by the Kiev air force. So rebels would have good reasons to put air defense there.
“…a large quantity of medication, including blood serum and so forth, was found in the airplane, which is not characteristic of a regular airliner. It looks like there was some kind of special medical cargo on board…”
That’s a rather strange and ominous discovery. Sounds like someone might have been transporting bio-weapons? Those folks on the ground should approach the site with extreme caution and not touch any of that “blood serum”.
What if there were people on board that plane who were bio-terrorists? Might alter ones view of events. And potentially why the plane was targeted. Wonder where (or at whom) that “blood serum” was headed? Very strange indeed.
One hopes killing all the people on board a flight — to target a few — would not be necessary. EVER. Unless something on board was so dangerous that the only alternative was to destroy the plane. Wasn’t there a recent Hollywood movie about a virus outbreak? Curious. Non? This entire story gets more bizarre by the hour.
I don’t believe the Novorussian resistance fighters are responsible for this incident. And frankly, I sort-of doubt the Uke’s did it either. Perhaps those with proxy-status for Kiev. Only a handful of folks could do this and not be outed immediately. US, Russia, Israel, China. Doubt if its the Chinese. Ummmmm…
Gleb Bazov
Fantastic job putting that material together. The most odd thing is what Strelkov said about some bodies having been dead for several days and the decay smell. Even the ZPC media picked that up:
Rebel leader gives bizarre account of plane crash
http://news.yahoo.com/rebel-leader-gives-bizarre-account-plane-crash-182256709.html
If it was just a couple people, an explanation could be they were transporting the bodies of deceased Malaysians back home burial? As for loading the airliner up with recently dead people, it doesn’t make sense, and people would have noticed, unless the dead were loaded in the baggage compartment. But why do it at all?
The medical supplies, blood serum and such could be related to that there were a lot of people involved in an AIDS conference on the plane. It could be materials they shipped along for that, or related to AIDS work where they were going. See:
On Board the crashed Boeing were several well-known Dutch scientists
http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/itar-tass.com/proisshestviya/1327640
“The HAGUE, July 18. /Corr. ITAR-TASS Vitaly Chagin/. On Board crashed in Ukraine Boeing were several well-known Dutch scientists and researchers. According to the publication DutchNews, they went to Australia for a summit on issues of HIV-infections…”
The canceled passports could be explained by this:
Сбитый “Боинг” перевозил дипломатическую почту (Downed “Boeing” was carrying pouches)
http://lifenews.ru/news/136895 (trans) http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/lifenews.ru/news/136895
“In victim of the crash of the airplane there were eight kilograms of official correspondence.”
A copy of the cargo manifest at the link shows 8kg of “diplomatic mail”. The canceled passports could be part of that mail, being returned to Malaysia? If the passports belong passengers listed as being on the plane, then obviously that wont explain why they were canceled.
вот так
This cnn video is also suspicious to me. I saw this yesterday early afternoon on their website. I don’t know when did Cnn first air it on TV. My first thought after watching the video is: Hmm, the person shoot this video seems was waiting there for the plane to fall and to explode. The second thought is: how could CNN get this alleged amateur so quickly? And this shooter must be a pro-western person to deliver this video to cnn, and this person is at war zoom in eastern Ukrain.
I think the investigation team should definitely investigate the original shooter of this video
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2014/07/17/wolf-vo-malaysia-airlines-mh17-impact.cnn.html
False Flag . Sì, è plausibile.
Non sarebbe la prima volta, anzi è la prassi, ricordiamoci l’undici Settembre. Grazie per le informazioni contenute nell’articolo, ma che mi potete dire sulla notizia trapelata sulla Voce della Russia dove si dice che il Target era l’aereo di V. Putin appena transitato nei paraggi. E’ vero, vi risulta? Grazie e ciao a tutti, Claus
This cnn video is also suspicious to me. I saw this yesterday early afternoon on cnn’s website. I don’t know when did Cnn first air it on TV. My first thought after watching it was: Hmm, the person shoot this video seems waiting there for the plane to fall and to explode. The second thought was: how could CNN get this alleged amateur video so quickly? This shooter must be a pro-western person, has the channel and awareness to deliver the video to cnn, and he/she must be at war zoom in eastern Ukrain. what the chance for that to happen at that place?
I think the investigation team should definitely investigate the original shooter of this video
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2014/07/17/wolf-vo-malaysia-airlines-mh17-impact.cnn.html
Just heard an “American spokesperson” for the WH on BBC saying that Obama should indeed come out with a statement assigning blame because “We already know what happened. Sure there should be an investigation, but the militia admitted to doing it.” and then more about how now maybe people in various countries will wake up to the threat posed by the Kremlin’s aggressive plans. Its all too perfect. BBC commentators also say militia is losing the conflict.
They have their narrative and are sticking to it. They must believe that contrary evidence either doesn’t exist or can’t be brought forward in a timely fashion.
I was so hoping that the truth, what ever it is, would come out in this case – now I doubt it will. Who was it that commented about the Moscow subway crash as an omen?
The picture of the pregnant woman in Odessa, strangled on an office desk, is the same Achilles’ heel as the free fall collapse of WTC7.
Doesn’t make sense, you say? The West Ukrainian Fascists [WUF} have shown and proven to have no heart [conscious/whatever you want to call it] and are able to kill people in cold blood [wounded men in hospitals/family members of deserters/etc.].
If the anti-Kiev forces did shoot MH17 down, I expect them to step up to the plate and admit their mistake [use what happened to the USS Liberty as a template if you choose not to]. For the time being, the ‘cui bono’ question leads me to believe that WUF benefits from this murder, not Strelkov and his wo/men.
As the families, friends and loved ones of the 298 passengers and crew must be heartbroken, my sympathy goes out to them. They must feel horrible and at loss.
also, listen carefully to the background noise of this video. It’s sounds to me like heavy truck engine, not the engine of ordinary car.
http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/world/2014/07/17/wolf-vo-malaysia-airlines-mh17-impact.cnn.html
Thank you Gleb.
The VOR story below was published June 29.
Donetsk militia takes control of Ukrainian anti-air installation
http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_06_29/Donetsk-militia-takes-control-of-Ukrainian-anti-air-installation-1561/
Someone at Rossiya Segodnya made a stupid mistake when they chose to publish this story. It was specifically reported as a tidbit in the Western press shortly afterwards. Sorry I can’t remember the source (maybe the BBC) but it stuck in my mind because the Anglo-Zionist press NEVER reports Russian tactical successes without an alterior motive.
And… voila!
All perfectly timed to distract from the latest Israeli crime spree.
More evidence that shooting down the airliner was an intentional act by the banderivtsy.
Минобороны зафиксировало работу РЛС ЗРК Украины в день авиакатастрофы (The defense Ministry has recorded a radar operation ZRK of Ukraine on the day of the crash)
http://lifenews.ru/news/136881 (trans) http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/lifenews.ru/news/136881
“…The press service of the defense Ministry reported that the route, which flew on 17 July Boeing 777”, as well as the place of his fall fall into the affected area of two Ukrainian batteries of anti-aircraft missile complex long-range s-200 and three batteries of anti-aircraft missile complex medium-range Buk-M1.
As noted in the Department, Russian radio devices for 17 July recorded the work of the radar station “Dome” battery Buk-M1″, stationed in the area of the settlement Style 30 km South of Donetsk.
This station is designed to provide radar information command posts of air defense formations and units of the air defense and control points of interest air defense systems, equipped Buk ‘ and ‘ tor.
The defense Ministry stressed that the technical characteristics of anti-aircraft missile complex “Buk-M1” allow the exchange of information on air for between batteries of the same division. Thus, the launch of rockets could also be carried out with all batteries stationed in the locality Avdiivka (eight kilometers North of Donetsk) or Gruzsko-Saranskoe (25 kilometers East of Donetsk).
Experts say that the aircraft at a height of 10 kilometers can be shot down by missiles launched by type complexes s-300 or “Buck”. Self-propelled anti-aircraft missile complex “Buk” is designed to hit targets at altitudes from 30 meters to 14-18 kilometers. on 16 July the armed forces of Ukraine was relocated in Donetsk region division “Buk”…
Malaysia Airlines MH17 plane crash in Ukraine LIVE UPDATES
http://rt.com/news/173628-malaysian-plane-crash-ukraine/
“13:07 GMT:
Ukraine’s traffic controllers ordered the Boeing-777 to lower by 500 meters when the aircraft entered Ukrainian airspace, says a statement on the Malaysia Airlines official website.
“MH17 filed a flight plan requesting to fly at 35,000ft (10,660 meters) throughout Ukrainian airspace. This is close to the ‘optimum’ altitude. However, an aircraft’s altitude in flight is determined by air traffic control on the ground. Upon entering Ukrainian airspace, MH17 was instructed by Ukrainian air traffic control to fly at 33,000ft (10,058 meters).”
This order to lower their altitude probably was to allow banderivtsy Buk systems a more sure chance of a hit on the airliner.
вот так
Whatever the outcome of the Malaysian airliner incident, it demonstrates a danger in Putin’s soft policy toward Washington’s ongoing hard intervention in Ukraine. Putin’s decision to respond with diplomacy instead of with military means to Washington’s provocations in Ukraine gave Putin a winning hand, as evidenced by the opposition to Obama’s sanctions by the EU and US business interests. However, by not bringing a quick forceable end to the Washington-sponsored conflict in Ukraine, Putin has left the door open for the devious machinations in which Washington specializes.
If Putin had accepted the requests of the former Russian territories in eastern and southern Ukraine to rejoin Mother Russia, the Ukrainian imbroglio would have come to an end months ago, and Russia would not be running risks of being framed-up.
Putin did not get the full benefit of refusing to send troops into the former Russian territories, because Washington’s official position is that Russian troops are operating in Ukraine. When facts do not support Washington’s agenda, Washington disposes of the facts. The US media blames Putin as the perpetrator of violence in Ukraine. It is Washington’s accusation, not any known facts, that is the basis for the sanctions.
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/17/sanctions-airliners-paul-craig-roberts/
Downed plane could alter course of Ukraine fight.
Yes, it could, Mr. Jim Heintz in Moscow, but first you have to start with some ff-ing honest and unbiased journalism. You already know who did it, don’t you?
You certainly put a lot of effort into this, and I doubt very seriously if you’re on anyone’s payroll to do so. I appreciate your efforts very much, as a skeptical American with many Russian friends.
SitRep Lugansk in photos.
You won’t need translation. No Children Should See this!
Lugansk 7-18-14
This is not an outrage in the West. The Hegemon feeds on the blood and bodies of innocent citizens.
44 killed today.
44 people were killed, 215 wounded. Among the dead one child, among them four children.
Attention! Information without regard to victims and destructions on July 18.
Civilians:
Killed 44 people
including children – 1
The wounded – 215 people
including children – 4
Destruction:
Apartment houses – 46
Home private sector – 195
Social facilities
School – 3
Kindergartens – 12
Bus station
Pharmacy warehouse
Objects of the industrial sphere
Factories – 5
Warehouse of finished products of private enterprises – 10
Shops – 18
Including supermarkets – 3
Catering – 2
Closed 60% of urban markets.
Objects of life support of the city
Invalid trolley – 10
Trams – 5
Municipal buses – 3
Route taxi – 40
Contact electric lines – 10 km
Power lines – 19 km
Road – 17000 sq.m
Boiler – 6
Power substation – 11
Water supply – 4
To provide medical assistance to the population lacks 150 doctors and 250 nurses.
The impression I have is that Russia has the time in his favor, but the U.S. and its henchmen
are also using that same time to do the most damage possible and raise
public opinion in their favor, thus the West with public opinion in their favor they can
take the attitude they want. For example, placing NATO troops in the Ukraine, arming
the regime impostor Kiev with modern weaponry, and from this whole situation from
for seeking confrontation back to Crimea. The scheme impostor Kiev has sworn that
will bring back the Crimea. They say Moscow is hoping that the lack of gas
the weight of the civil war, lack of money Kiev will make the regime collapse.
The U.S. is dumb enough not calculate this??
Wait or not wait, what the damage will be greater future for Russia?
Thanks to everyone that worked on this time line and only time will tell us the truth.
It appears that YouTube encode their videos upon uploading according to UTC minus one day. This isn’t the original meta data that the uploaded video contained. I don’t know whether that’s discoverable.
It appears that YouTube encode their videos upon uploading according to UTC minus one day. This isn’t the original meta data that the uploaded video contained. I don’t know whether that’s discoverable.
Seems to me like the main aim is to use this as a way of negotiating a temporary ceasefire to save themselves from battlefield defeat. After investigation team leaves, violence will resume.
Below is final tweets of Spanish air traffic cntrl at Kiev when plane downed. His acct @spainbuca since erased from Twitter. Parts verified still in cache form:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:twitter.com/spainbuca … via @wmiddelkoop
Part translation. Cut Spanish to fit 4096 char limit:
CHRONOLOGY OF @spainbuca’s TWITTER FEED
10:21 – 17 de jul. de 2014 Autoridades de kiev, intentan hacer que pueda parecer un ataque de los pro-rusos
“Kiev Authorities, trying to make looks like an attack by pro-Russian”
10:24 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“warning! It can be a downing, Malaysia Airlines B777 in ukraine, 280 passengers”
10:25 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“[Miitary] has taken control of ATC in Kiev”
10:27 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“The Malaysia Airlines B777 plane disappeared from the radar, there was no communication of any anomaly, confirmed”
10:30 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“Plane shot down, shot down, shot down, no accident”
10:31 – 17 de jul.
“Kiev have what they wanted, I said in the first tw [Tweets], Kiev is responsible @ ActualidadRT”
10:35 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“An accident that is not quite normal, they are threatening us in the same tower of Kiev airport”
10:35 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“they will take from our phones and others stuff at any moment”
10:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“Before They remove my phone or they break my head, shot down by Kiev”
11:12 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“We have confirmation. Plane downed, Kiev authorities already have the information, downed, we are calm now”
11:13 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“What are doing foreigners with kiev authorities in the tower? Gathering all the information”
11:15 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“When possible I´ll keep writing”
11:48 – 17 de jul. de 2014
The B777 plane flew escorted by Ukraine jet fighter until 2 minutes before disappearing from the radar,
11:54 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“If kiev authorities want to tell the truth, It´s gathered, 2 jet fighters flew very close minutes before, wasn’t downed by a fighter”
12:00 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“Malaysia Airlines B777 plane just disappeared and Kiev military authority informed us of the downing, How they knew?”
12:00 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“7:00 minutes after [plane dissapeared], the downing was notified, later our tower was taken with foreigner staff, they still here ”
continued …
Part II of Carlos” Twitter feed.
I’d say this is proof.
(Some important stuff cut to fit 4096 char limit:)
12:01 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“all this is gathered in radars, to the unbelieving, shot down by kiev, here we know it and military air traffic control also”
13:15 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“Here the military commanders manage and support it could be military following other orders , but no, the pro-Russian”
13:29 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“Interior Minister knew what the fighters were doing in the area, the defense minister didn’t.”
13:31 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“Military confirm It was Ukraine, but still does not know where the order came from”
13:36 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“Days ago I said here, kiev military wanted to rise against the current president, this may be a way, ordered by timoshenko [following timishenko orders]”
13:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“The fighters flew close to 777, up to 3 minutes before disappearing from the radar, just 3 minutes”
15:17 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“military control now officially [say] the plane was shot down by missile”
15:23 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“Government has the official report signed by the control military authorities in Kiev,,,, [plane] shot down”
15:26 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“The report indicates where the missile had come out [from], and specified is not from the selfdefence in rebel areas”
15:34 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“Military radar collected data from missile fired to the plane, civilian radars didn’t”
15:36 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“military high command did not gave the order to fire the missile, someone screw it ine the name of ukraine”
15:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“For those who do not know, Let’s say, there are military under the orders of the defense minister and military under the orders of Interior Minister”
15:38 – 17 de jul. de 2014.
“The military under the orders of Interior Minister knew what happened all the time .”
16:06 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“Military commanders here (ATC) control tower, confirm that the missile is from the ukranian army,”
16:07 – 17 de jul. de 2014
“military commanders that knew it and others didn´t ,”
(stuff cut)
It seems that this s*it with blaming MH17 downing on the rebels won’t fly, at least not in Europe.
Unfortunately that means more attempts at escalation with WMD: bio, chem, nuclear.
I have this feeling that soon will see announcement by Kiev putschist of a discovery in the West of mass grave of civilians killed by the “terrorists from Donbass”.
Srebrenica/Houla moment in Ukraine coming in 1, 2, 3, …
False flag is obvious, but so many confusing facts!!! Cancelled passports? Old dead bodies mixed with fresh ones?
Glad thay Ukies junta did themselves in with that internet dating, though! We all knew it was FF, because not even for a moment I believed Russians or militia would do that. But too many other details make the picture extremely confusing…
Nice analysis but there is no need for that. BRICS IMF is announced, next day US imposes new set of sanctions against Russia, another day and all the western media have a new story to blame Russia.
Once you reach the real motive, everything is simple.
Now wait for the false flag involving China.
Sadlyvpropagandavwar is won not on facts but perception.
Russia ha habit of her victory snatched by Anglo plotters everytime for simple reason that Russia never has any plan or is too slow to react.
With these events, the best way to divine the truth is to study the exact forms of propaganda co-ordinated across the zionist controlled mainstream media. Edward Bernays was the zionist father of all modern forms of propaganda and PR, and his methods can be seen in daily use at the BBC, Guardian, NYT, CNN, Reuters, AP, AFP etc, etc.
A false flag will have an official narrative, well worked out far in advance and co-ordinated with the controlling editors of all major news outlets. Look how the BBC accidentally announced the free fall collapse of WTC7 long before the controlled demolition was actually triggered.
For the longest time, the mainstream media has described rebel claims of shooting down significant numbers of Kiev military aircraft as complete lies. Now, the BBC etc are falling over themselves to tell the sheeple how common it is for the ‘rebels’ to blow planes out of the sky. The narrative is turned from ‘black’ to ‘white’ (1984 style) with the assumption that the sheeple won’t even notice.
Anyone with an IQ in double figures will understand what Team Obama has to gain from ordering Kiev to shoot down this airliner. When Iran was finally beating US backed Iraq in the Iran-Iraq war (started at America’s behest in revenge for the so-called Iranian hostage crisis), America didn’t hesitate to Holocaust an Iranian civilian jet full of passengers, to send a warning message to the leaders of Iran.
The USA was built on literal genocide, and the USA was the only industrialised nation to make widespread use of slavery within its own borders. Many European nations participated in the vile slave trade, but their own populations would never accept significant acts of slavery at home.
America’s most powerful leaders have always been rock-solid supporters of eugenics and so-called racial ‘science’. Bill Gates is a leading figure in the movement to reduce the Human population, using any possible means, to Two Billion. Shooting down an aircraft full of innocents has less significance to US elites than their daily bowel movement.
Now the thing about a false flag is that no intelligent, well-informed person ever believes the official lie, but this doesn’t matter because the lies are aimed at the general population- always as part of a far bigger full-spectrum demonisation process. Look at how Russia was treated over the recent Winter Olympics by the zionist controlled mainstream media.
It is easy for a fool to say “sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me”. The words being aimed at Russia are vastly more effective than any military weapon that NATO could currently deploy. Russia is equal to any direct military attack. However, the West’s use of propaganda is the most corrosive method ever witnessed in Human History.
Putin refused to act cleanly, and simply liberate Novorussia- a massive mistake sold to Russia by many so-called supporters. Now the West can jab, and jab, and jab, and jab and jab whenever they perceive a chink in Russia’s ‘armour’. No matter what Putin says or does, the experts in the West can ‘spin’ the choice into a clear ‘negative’, and strike a sneaky blow.
The West encourages its opponents to be ‘clever, clever’. To use thousands of words finding arguments against the only course of action with any chance of defeating the monsters of the West. Even this false-flag exploits such psychology. Friends of Russia are going to waste millions of man-hours ‘debating’ all the ‘facts’ of the false-flag, neatly bogging themselves down in an activity that gives victory to the West.
Instead, the false-flag should be formally recognised, and fully accepted as proof of the absolute evil of those that rule the West. Time-wasting debate that the monsters crave should be ended. Russia, Putin, the rebels and supporters should consider the most effective response to the counter the ruthless evil of NATO/EU/USA/Kiev before it is too late.
@McFaul @gbazov The date on the ticket? Holes on the passport? What is it? pic.twitter.com/RxJBeob9dy
The pic doesn’t show MH17 on the ticket. Am I missing something?
Sara Firth: I resigned from RT today. I have huge respect for many in the team, but I’m for the truth.
She quits over reporting about plane crash. I admit I will miss her. She was one brave reporter spending lot of time in Middle East, especially Syria.
Here is a possible false-flag scenario:
Ukrainian leadership decides to get the rebels and Russia into a trap, irrespective of if these rebels have or not high-altitude rockets (but if the rebels had it, the plan will work even better).
Step1:
UKR moves some BUK units in places where they can seem as being fired from the rebels (just in case).
Step2:
UKR might also use some potential moles infiltrated with the rebels and give them a tip that a military transport plane will fly protected by 2 jet fighters.
Step3:
UKR advised by some foreign entities picks the malaysian flight as the bite. They tell the malaysian air crew that the flight is being diverted for security reasons more north while also being escorted by two military jets, just in case. The malaysians might not know exactly where Donetsk is and they will just believe the ukrainian authorities (in case one of them realizes they fly right through the middle of Donetsk, the ukrainians could lie to them saying they will be diverted even more to the north, to avoid it; this only needs to take place a few minutes, anyway).
Step4:
Meanwhile, on the ground, we might have both fighting forces watching these 3 planes. The ukrainian one, as part of the plan in case the rebels don’t fire any BUK missile. But it might be possible that even rebel forces look at this trio of planes which can be considered as a military one because the 2 jets.
Step5:
One of the forces from the ground fires a rocket. If it’s the rebels, plan will be 100% success. Even if the rocket misses, one of the fighter jets will fire at the plane and finish the job (they only need to rpove some rocket was flying in the area at the time, after all).
If they need to use their own BUK system, plan is 50/50%, a lot will depend on the media campaign.
Even Russia can be easily trapped in such a evil plan (a commercial plane coming from Ukraine escorted by military jets in such a way that it seems to look more like a military transport or spy plane).
This is why I think Russia should really stop playing silly games and place all the cards on the table. When I say silly games, I mean all these efforts to please EU, all this gas given for free to Ukraine.
Because the opponents of Russia are willing to resort to some of the most devious methods, Russia will always be at a disadvantage if it doesn’t play a though game will the cards of the tables: no more half measures, half senteces, halft truths or childish approaches. This is a real existential war now, it’s not some cheap theater on the stage: people and nations are going to be destroyed forever.
It’s time to point fingers in the open, to deliver clear messages that even propagating lies into media can and should be considered an act of war. This is how the undecided people are being embarked now on one side or the other. It’s much better to speak the truth crystal clear now and attract the honest people on your side. Let the enemy pick the opportunists, the cowards, the liars and the hypocrites.
Anonymous said…18 July, 2014 23:31
“Sara Firth: I resigned from RT today. I have huge respect for many in the team, but I’m for the truth.”
Same MO as the other two zionist moles. How many more of these zionist moles are embedded in Russian and other media not controlled by the ZPC? Definitely house cleaning time.
вот так
@bot tak 00:21
Next person stabbing RT in the back will be Bill Dodd (an obvious saboteur), then that lying spoiled brat CIA sleeper cow Abby Martin.
RT is riddled with sabotage, some of their reporting is so stupid it can only be the work of sabotage or incompetence: Eg: yesterday they kept reporting that the Ukies had audio tape evidence that the rebels had shot the plane down – how utterly stupid of RT, if you can’t substantiate a report, normal media protocol requires that you don’t report it, yet those idiots at RT kept reporting it as fact that the Ukies had intercepted rebel communications that proved the rebels shot the plane down. Today we see from Gleb Blazov’s translations that the tape was a fake. Do you know how damaging it is for RT to propagate the BBC’s talking points?
Nice going you dumb infiltrated amateurs at RT! The next time you hire someone you might want to run a background check on them with your intelligence agencies before you slip on another imperial banana peel.
Russian TV interviewed some experts who said 1) damage shown in one image of the wreckage was NOT caused by a BUK, and 2) it takes a minimum of 6 months specialized training to operate one and up to 5yrs to pecome expert. (aside from the obvious that Kyiv’s reliance on a bogus video suggests their incompetence.
Nardami
@Nardami 01:50 re RT
Guess what? Yesterday we had a fat drooling fraudster by the name of Chris Hayes (claiming to be an expert) stating the BUK system is so simple that “it’s a point and shoot” system requiring hardly any training. Worse, this drooling fraudster implied that the self-defence forces did it (presenting no evidence of course). BUT IT GETS BETTER: Those idiots at RT had this same drooling “expert” on today implying the same garbage, can you believe that? The English language part of that network is so heavily infiltrated by moles that it’s mind boggling, in combination with incompetent management based in Washington DC and you have an Atlantic Integrationist’s wet dream. RT rewards a guy that whored himself to the BBC slandering Russians by outright lying that untrained rebels could point and shoot down an airliner with a BUK system. RT rewarded this guy by giving him more airtime, can you believe it?
Saker if you have any contacts with RT (Mark Svoboda), can you convey these anomalies to your contacts?
There are two claims that I just can’t understand, as they seem to diverge:
1. Why would they place many dead bodies on the plane? So that it would look even more grotesque and push further sanctions / war actions against Russia? And how would the airline not know about it?
OR ELSE: If those dead bodies are from the MH370 that disappeared months ago, so it was them who downed that plane?
I just don’t get it.
2. Were they actually trying to hit Putin’s plane, how come no one noticed it was another plane? If there were jets up there, they would know that it wasn’t in fact Putin’s plane.
AND if there were jet fighters escorting the MH17, how come no one from Malaysia Airlines talked about it so far?
These two narratives just don’t match.
Since the shoot down – the popular zerohedge.com blog has been down or attacked. The site is popular and constatntly exposes the corruption of the USA govt, NWO, Ukrian coup, theft of gold from Ukraine, Libya and other countries, global banksters and elites. They are trying to shut down web sites that expose the corruption.
@ALL
Dear Friends,
I wish could participate in the discussion (and provide more analysis), but time is of the essence. Fact is, I have been confining myself mostly to translations, a very different approach than I took during the Syrian CW crisis. I am happy the work has been of assistance Several of you here (and elsewhere) have questioned the use of the next-day ticket screenshot. Allow me to explain:
1) the screenshot comes from a tweet, which also contained a photograph of multiple cancelled/expired passports – that is what drew me, not the next-day tickets;
2) if you notice, I only commented on the passports issue, not on the tickets;
3) the tickets issue is a red herring – in that I agree with those that questioned the use of the photograph.
Kind thanks,
Gleb Bazov
I am reminded of Sandy Hook. First of all, it has been demonstrated that the AP photos that were used in the press following Sandy Hook were posted on the AP website between two days and several years in advance of the event. Also, there are no birth records for any of the victims at Sandy Hook and the entire event may have been a DHS fraud. It also appears actors were brought in to the scene to be interviewed as grief-stricken family members. It is astonishing to see the lengths they will go to to perpetrate fraud upon the people. Fascinating to contemplate the possible connection between the two Malaysian planes. Nothing is beyond them.
Here a summary of events:
http://deepresource.wordpress.com/2014/07/19/mh17-the-flying-lusitania/
Dutch
You write: “Yes, one rocket will rip the casing, cause depressurization, and will kill a lot of passengers. But it will not break up the airliner into pieces. Given certain conditions, the pilots may even be able to land it.”
Are you sure? I have read that the on-board bomb which brought down Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie in 1988 caused little damage even to some suitcases in the same baggage container, and only directly damaged a small section of the hull. But the resulting decompression was enough to cause the whole aircraft to disintegrate and disperse over 100s of km2. Have I misunderstood something?
Based on amateur video of the plane falling down nearly intact
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKIlueJg4cA
Photographic and forensic commentary showing evidence of strafing
http://bobik-57.livejournal.com/1335504.html
Evidence of use of chaf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUltrf8n_vA&list=UUQ7a7Q4EN-OY1mdyanRs-3w
Eyewitness account and much conjecture
What follows is speculation. Tymoshenko has some loyalty in the military. She wants to dethrone Poroshenko. A rogue operation was planned by the people supporting Tymoshenko and a rogue fighter plane fired Air to Air Missile on both the doomed MH17 and the two Ukrainian jets escorting the MH17. These two released chaff and one bailed out of his plane as eyewitness on the ground reported hearing three explosions, seeing two planes going down and one parachute.
I don’t have a complete analysis of the bloggers but sometimes it appears that some comments on “propaganda” are based on perceptions that the target audience is the “Anglo-Saxon” audience especially the “United States”.
From mental mapping I can understand such apparent self-absorption and so can others.
Quite a few non “Anglo Saxons” understand English whilst having been socialised in different cultures.
Part of this socialisation includes perception of audio-visual data.
What do you think some non Anglo-Saxon’s perceive when Psaki, or some RT America productions such as The Big Picture, Politicking, Boom Bust, Breaking the Set, and Larry King Now are given a platform?
Some are much taken by the works of Bernays and Doctor Goebbels.
However Dr. Goebbels organisation lost and had limited ideological effect on the periphery – which became larger and larger as a consequence of his organisation.
Mr. Bernays was of limited facility to limited audiences.
However if you are subject to mental mapping this may sound illusory and misguided.
To build disease resistance exposure in an attenuated form is an advantage.
Even a small missile (the BUK rocket is usually configured with a 40Kg proximity fragmentation, not penetration, warhead) can bring down a large aircraft if it hits the control circuits.
Any update on the where the black boxes are?
My opinion is that this disaster was not caused by Russia. Little to be gained from it.
There’s practical reasons why I doubt it was down to the rebels. (BTW, what’s that about red noses = training munitions? Also, if BUK units can be linked up so that control can come from a unit in a different geographic location does that not imply that the ability to control and fire the rockets is at the discretion of the command and control structure – which would, unless the rebels have a lot of knowledge, remain with Ukraine military?)
However, it looks as though the Russians may be getting to place where they can control proceedings.
For a start, I very much doubt that Putin and his government prefer the armed rebellion over ceasefire and a negotiated outcome.
It seems that, for the first time the Russians may be getting traction in terms of the language used to describe what is going on in Ukraine.(CF. the OSCE statement on the air crash).
If I were Mr Putin I’d be using this opportunity to push an agenda whereby the fighting stops and talking starts. This incident is like a shock during a bad dose of hiccups. The shock interrupts the pattern of behaviour and it does not restart.
In addition, amid bellicose talk from the west there seems to be a move toward re-framing the discussion of the event of the crash; perhaps I am wrong and I am just seeing a few token, less strident, voices.
Some of the descriptions on the net of bloodless corpses, bioweapons, etc. at the crash site do not seem to me to fit in with the concept of the Russians using spoofing techniques to prevent Putin’s flight being shot down by faking the ID of MH17. If MH17 was really just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and a regular commercial flight, and the whole scenario not preplanned, then why would there be any anomalies?
In my opinion, one of the first things to check at the crash site should be the serial numbers of the planes engines etc. to verify which plane really crashed. With reports of MH17 being cancelled on July 17 (http://www.flightradar24.com/flight/mh17) there is some doubt about whether the real MH17 even flew that day. http://jimstonefreelance.com/
There is more evidence of the M17, Malaysian plane crash in Ukkaine that it was a False Flag planned in Washington, by Washington. The Ukies could not possibly have planned and executed such a complex, pinpointed, tragedy. Evidence that has been so carefully hidden that presently Google is making sure by changing it’s posting policies that news of that evidence can be deleted before ever hitting the public again as it di right after the ‘incident’. There has been news out that the manoevers needed by the two small Ukraine military jets were so complicated only the best military US pilots could accomplish the False Flag mission correctly and get way. The US pilots were wearing Ukraine uniforms.
The Malaysian passenger plane was brought down first by a Ukrainian Buk missile located on Russian air radars as on a Kiev controlled area near the trajectory of the doomed plane load of mainly Netherlanders. The ICC s located in Netherlands. The plane was a False flag thought up and designed by US aviation experts and psycologists for major impact and message. The two Ukraine military jets that steered the damaged plane after it lost altitude, killing all passengers, to where the dead passengers were to be ejected over the roofs of the small village where the wreckage was found, were piloted by US military aviation crack pilots, the best, dressed in Ukraine uniforms to complete the false flag accusations that the Ukies did it, flew those two key small planes, fired the shots that split open the whole plane while in the air about 200 feet above the sleeping village. The momentum then landed the shattered plane in the field of war where it was left in for weeks..to be looted of evidence …in order to so terrify Europe it would sanction Russia exactly like the US just did. Done.
The evidence was not manufactured by Ukraine. The ‘false flag’ was not manufactured nor thought up by, Ukraine. The Buk was fired by an US expert, the two Ukrainian jets that steered the damaged passenger plane were piloted by two US crack jet pilots, the very best, dressed in Ukie uniforms to perfect the False Flag, which in order to be effective had to easily expose what it intended: such ‘accidents’ would occur to all countries who did not obey Washington without question. The draconian US problem, the EU must sanction Russia for what it was clearly not doing so the US electorate would believe Russia must be invaded and it’s power eliminated by a world war. Germany had just refused to sanction it. Angela was leading the EU. As the evidence was clearly manufactured to any who looked, from EU terror, EU sanctions on Russia, our brother European who won WW11 all alone,were begun, now totalling 5 rounds of them. In forced response, Russia has sanctioned back only two rounds, the latest last week.