Unreal. But true. It appears that France will really not deliver the Mistrals to Russia and will pay 1.1 billion Euros in refunds and fines.. I was pretty sure that this was all bluff and that the French would hand them over within *weeks* of declaring that they would not. Not even I could imagine the Hollande government so terminally stupid. But then, they are hardly alone.
In this case, the entire Empire is doing something fantastically stupid.
Let’s set aside the economics which are pretty clear for everybody. Let’s look at this decision from a military point of view.
Let’s begin by remember that the decision to get the Mistrals was a political one, opposed by many, possibly most, Russian Navy commanders. Mind you – there is nothing wrong with the Mistrals, they are superb and very capable ships. The point is that they are not well adapted to Russian conditions except for in the Black Sea. The plan was to send one of them to the Pacific Fleet to provide a “Green Water” power projection capability and serve as a command ship. There were rumors that the 2nd one would be going to the Black Sea Fleet. In the first case, this would have required a lot of very expensive modifications. In the 2nd case, this would have been easier, but remember that these ships were ordered when Crimea was still in Ukrainian hands. Now with Crimea back under Russian sovereignty, Russia basically “owns” the Black Sea so the addition of a Mistral would have been an “okay” to have, but nothing more. I would also note here that Russian ports (docks) are not adapted to this kind of ship and adapting them would also have required major investments.
One of the strongest arguments for the Mistrals was the fact that Russian shipyards simply did not have the time and capability to deliver such advanced ships and, especially, as fast as France. So these ships were purchased first and foremost as part of the strategy Medvedev and his Atlantic Integrationists to forge stronger political, economic, technological and military ties with the West and, second, as a (very controversial) “stop gap” measure.
But just the West’s economic sanctions proved to be a blessing for the Russian agriculture and a strong incentive to reform the Russian economy, the non-delivery of the Mistrals will be a absolute blessing for the Russian Navy which will now get 1.1 billion Euros to built exactly the ship it wanted all along! And you can be absolutely sure that the Russians now have the full plans and schematics of every single screw on the Mistrals and the docks which built them and that the ships Russia will build now will be similar, but much better adapted to Russian needs than the original one.
I will give credit to Hollande for one thing: if he would have tried not to pay back Russia and Russia would have been forced to go to court for many years, he would have damaged France’s reputation even further. But still, the loss is a huge one for France. I also feel sorry for the folks who built these superb ships and who will not see them sail under Russian flag because setting aside all the economic and military arguments against the purchase of the Mistrals, it would have been quite a sight to see them with Ka-52s on their deck.
The Saker
Maybe Hollande can get Saudi Arabia to buy them.
@Lysander Spot on! Arab petro-states are the dumbing ground for expensive western weapon systems.
Saudi just bought 3$ billion worth of weapons for Lebanon from France, including 3 corvettes. Egypt ordered Rafale jets from France to be paid for by Saudi money.
Saudi navy as a whole is French-orientated with La Fayette class frigates as their major warships, but at 16k tonnes the Mistral is a different class of beast and I doubt Saudi would buy it (or the west would want to have such an effective weapon).
“dumbing ground”
Whether intentional or not, coinage of the week! Thank you. 8-)
Russia continues to sell US the RD-180 engine which powers the first stage of United Launch Alliance’s (ULA) Atlas 5 rocket, which is used almost exclusively to launch American military satellites and other government payloads. This contract is worth millions to the Russian MIC. As for Saudi Arabia unless some changes have taken place recently they are purchasing billions of dollars of weapons from Russia including various modifications of combat helicopters, T-90C tanks, armored vehicles and anti-aircraft missile systems. The deal approximately totals $2 billion. Saudi Arabia will purchase Mi-171, Mi-35 choppers and T-90C tanks until the end of this year according to recent reports.
Naaah….. NATO will buy one to give it to the Tcheque Republic & the other one maybe Switzerland will buy it !
Yeah, it can sit next to the Czech ballistic missile boat in Slapy… ;-)
There goes France from the arms market permanently.
Yep! and one competitor less to worry about, by both the US of A and the Russian Federation, Arms Manufacturers.
Also what is worrying though that this kind of attitude is in line of a Major War in the making like the 1st WW.
Similar actions were taken by the Warring factions I remember that warships ordered by Turkey were NOT Delivered.
Everything that is happening now is a build up to war. I have read too much history and it is depressing as although technical knowledge is built upon, human nature never changes. Even now with the amount of written history we have, the world (US) is again building up to world war.
This war, with nuclear weapons? each war is different from the last and more devastating.
But that is human nature/character. The psychopaths always end up in a position of power somewhere in the world.
At the moment they have power in the US that has become institutionalised and will not be changed through elections. Apart from the slight chance of revolution in the US we are headed for the war to end all wars literally.
Don’t worry Peter.
There’s no nuclear war coming – it’s just “low-level” continuous war. They need the MIC profits to continue funding purchase of those super yachts. Nukes would taint the air they breathe. Good grief, they don’t want cancer until the jab is ready for them which prevents that.
I agree, you hit the bull’s eye.
60/40 bet. Going on history, 60% chance of going to nukes. Going on accumulated knowledge, 40% chance of not going to nukes.
Even a conventional world war would destroy our civilization. The degree — and, essentially, the speed — of destruction caused by a generalized world war would have greater impact in the economy than climate change. The contenders would fight until the economy could not produce enough food, and repair and replace high-tech weapons. After that, large armies would collapse and warlords, organized criminal entities and self-appointed jihadis would be roaming the Earth and pillaging everything that could, still, be of any use.
Before the 3rd industrial revolution, a large part of the economy — including the primary sector (the extraction of natural resources) — were not capital intensive. After a conventional WWIII, there would not be enough physical capital to reboot the (capital-intensive) economy. We would fall straight into a second medieval period.
There would not be any safe haven for the current elites to take refuge, either. Picture their gold and land being stolen, with their daughters kidnapped by warlords, to legitimize the theft. It all happened before, when the Vandals and other Goths crossed the Rhine river and laid waste the whole of the Western Roman Empire.
“…I remember that warships ordered by Turkey were NOT Delivered”.
Slightly different, as Turkey was already in the German camp. As Britain was still trying to maintain the “two-power standard” whereby the Royal Navy would be stronger than any two other navies put together, it would have been foolish to give two state-of-the-art battleships to Turkey, which would use them to block the Dardanelles. (Nobody knew in advance that naval minefields and the Turkish Army would suffice for that). And Germany would not have had to send Goeben and Breslau to strengthen the Turkish navy.
Slightly different, as Turkey was already in the German camp.
Not so. Turkey was a neutral power on August 3, 1914 when Britain requisitioned the two British-built dreadnoughts bought and paid for by Turkey and due for handover on August 2, 1914. The British has never refunded Turkey the purchase price.
I wrote “in the German camp” deliberately, not “allied with Germany”. Moreover “[t]he Ottoman Empire joined the Central Powers in the war with the secret Ottoman–German Alliance signed in August 1914”. (Wikipedia).
I am glad there are People here that know their stuff.
Still as a Greek I am grateful they did not hand them over to Turkey on the other hand
IT IS A LESSON ONE NEEDS TO LEARN.
That also didn’t save my wife’s great uncle from being killed in the early landing of the Dardanelles.
History is fascinating, and your ally won’t necessarily be nice to you afterwards. ( Britain Instigating the Greek Civil War 1944-49, did not deliver the wish of the Greek Cypriots Union with Greece, even though they ruled both places in reality).
The 1st WW had eliminated 4 of my wife’s Great Uncles from the family of 10, (9 boys and 1 girl)
The Oligarchs (Banksters) though did win anyway.
The banksters will always when, they control the flow of mana.
But surely the situation was fluid. The region could have turned either way. The Gallipoli campaign should have been Blitzkrieg a generation before its time, relieving the pressure on the Western Front. Surplus warships were to blast up the Dardanelles, so colonial troops could then garrison Turkey. But the attack was called off after one French cruiser hit a mine. The commanders then decided to secure the shores first. Realising the danger, the Germans rushed weapons to the Turks, who had one of the century’s great military commanders. So the land campaign failed, degenerating into the same trensh warfare it was supposed to avoid. Moral? You don’t always get what you want.
This I think is the exactly the point. Not delivering these ships does very little to reduce Russia’s military capability. In fact, in the long run it is probably good for Russia. What it does do is kill the credibility of France as an arms dealer.
The US isn’t concerned about Russia having these ships, the US is concerned about France competing with them in the arms market.
… as the Politburo of Nazi-clique that has taken over the US-administration many decades ago has decided unanimously.
Good news in my opinion. I shook my head in disbelief when I first heard Russia is buying these ships from France. However, I think there’s an error in this report. France is not paying penalties for the breach of contract, they are basically just returning the money that Russia paid in ADVANCE.
“returning €800 million and paying compensation for other expenses totaling €300 million”
So, basically Russians were just refunded, adding few hundred thousand on ‘other expenses’
I think RT is trying to soften how the French refusal sounds. Instead of saying “France RETURNS money to Russia” They write that France pays.
I hoped Russia would sue France over this as they probably could as this looks like a breach of contract. So there should be 1 billion that Russia already paid + roughly the same amount as penalty. (not delivering on big projects like this costs a lot of $$$$)
But anyway, I am glad that they will get money back. I heard someone on the Russian side saying that these Mistrals were not properly equipped for northern seas and that they planned to build improved versions themselves (two of these).
It would be even better if this money is spent elsewhere – the last thing Russia needs now are assault ships and any type of carriers.
Go for:
– S400 & S500
– SU-35 & PAK-FA
– Iskanders & ballistic missiles
– T90MS ‘Tagil’ & all armor built on Armata platform
– Ka-52 & Mil Mi-28
All of above are some of the best Russian weapons and generally some of the best in the world. Produced domestically and in DESPERATELY SMALL NUMBERS!!!
Russian engineers come out with the best projects and working prototypes and end up building several units.
Going for carrier fleet is in my opinion a mistake, especially now when Russia is going to be pressed harder than ever. They will never outspend USA & Co. So don’t try to beat them in their own game.
You’re correct about US military spending, but there’s a huge difference between spending for global force projection and defending one’s own territory.
I’m seeing ‘The Art of War’ being played out, sadly from the wrong shore.
you’re funny T1…I feel the same way…I’m trying to figure out how to move to Russia…in my dreams…
Make sure you’re in the top 20% of earners before you go – the rest have got worse off since 1990.
If not you could be be advised to stay in Canada.
I beg to differ.
Anonymous, the one you link is from 2011 – 2012 not exactly up to date. But at least they asked 165,000 people, perhaps a tiny bit more representative than the usual polls, which ask maybe 1300 and claim it to represent all of a country, even as large as the USA.
All these polls are useless, because they are measuring 1000 interpretations of “happy” “satisfied” etc and a lot of answers depend on precisely how the questions were worded. Different wording on the same people will give different results (there is a whole industry built on this, as well as numerous academic careers).
Wealth and income comparisons over time are probably more realistic, as they’re taken from official statistics that cover everybody. Meaningful nation to nation comparisons are not possible though, as each measures these things differently.
Substantial parts of these two ships were made by Russia in Russia.
Does this mean that France just bought Russian military hardware ? Moscow makes a profit.
Somebody trespassed on the Mistral while at dock and downloaded the French computer programs that run the vital operations. Was it Putin ?
I may be mistaken, but I thought the press mentioned that hard drives were taken.
So right, I stand corrected
http://rt.com/news/209891-mistral-ship-equipment-stolen/
@teamputin[ my mistake for originally editing …. regards :-) ]: Which parts exactly were built in Russia?! Maybe there was plans to install Russian hardware once the ship was done, but I doubt France would buy Russian hardware and then resell it to Russia, that just doesn’t make sense….if you have sources for this please share
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistral-class_amphibious_assault_ship#Russian_purchase
http://militaryrussia.ru/i/284/547/UDZlH.jpg
@Team Putin: I stand corrected! I thought the Russians contribution would be weapons, radars and such systems, but apparently Russians shipyards built big chunks of the ship…..this deal never made any sense from the start.
And what/who are you Team Putin? France bought? Was it Putin?
Yep. Putin sneaks around in after hours (when he has clocked of as president) personally involved in espionage operations.
I’m not sure where you are coming from?
As to the suggested shopping list, I’d add subs. Lots of subs.
Yep – lots & lots & lots of subs.
Let’s give these oligarch b**tards more moey/power, keep growing the MIC everywhere.
It’s what they want&need.
Local A&E department just closed down here (UK) but lets update trident @£100Billion.
You have been duped.
Yes, but for each sub you could buy a whole lot of any of the things I listed.
Also, Russia is actually doing a good job with submarine fleet. Borei and Yasen class are coming up. It goes somewhat slow, but steady. New Diesel-electric subs are also laid down and some are currently in shipyards.
Russians doesn’t need a huge blue-water navy as they are not trying to replace USA as a world policeman.
Instead tit-for-tat Russia should go for asymmetrical response.
So we have USA spending countless billions for ‘invisible’ aircraft. One F35 is ~140+ million $ (who knows if the price will rise even more as there are numerous problems still) ; on the other side a whole batallion of S400 systems is ~500 mill $. And you can be sure they are better value than 2 and a half airplanes, especially if you are defending.
Same goes for aircraft carriers VS anti-ship missiles.
Another example:
Awesome British Challenger 2 tank costs a whooping 6,3 million dollars. But then this:
“The Challenger 2 is often touted to be one of the best protected tanks in the world.[8] The turret and hull are protected with second generation Chobham armour (also known as Dorchester). But in spite of its platinum reputation, the Challenger 2’s front underside hull armour was defeated by an RPG-29 despite being augmented with an ERA package in the infamous August 2006 attack[9] in Iraq” As reported by British Telegraph.
What’s the price of single RPG-29 rocket? 500$? 1000$?
Russians can’t afford another arms race, not should even try – they have an answer for western military. No way to out-produce or outspend NATO. Russia already has best solutions that are much more cost-effective than western counterparts.
Surely the front underside has been a chronically weak part of all tanks ever manufactured. You can’t armour everything equally heavily, or you wind up with something far too heavy. Tank tactics manuals have always stressed the importance of keeping that part unexposed by staying on reverse slopes in the presence of anti-tank weapons.
True what you said, of course. But my point is – if the West (USA, GER, UK, FR) has super-heavy tank, don’t try to beat them by building even heavier tank.
Challenger 2 ………. 62.5 t
M1A2 Abrams …….. around same (+ little more with t.u.s.k)
Merkava Mk.4 ………65t
Leopard 2A7 ……….67.5t
Instead, introduce them to: Kornet-D/EM
He doesn’t shy from fat girls like those MBTs. ;-)
I would not be at all surprised if Russia did sue France for compensation, at a later date.
small beer cf Russia ordered to pay $53B over Yukos.
Who is able to make Russia pay?
Quite right. Also, from the political point of view buying helicopter carriers plays right into the American propaganda about “aggressive Russia”. I don’t see how those ships could play any role in defending Russia – they’re more the kind of thing Western imperialists would want for beating up more or less defenseless countries.
Exactly. Just recently I read some American political/military analyst (I think it was in Newsweek) stating – if Russia is to built a fleet of super-carriers, they would certainly seal the fate of US dominated world order. Riiiiiight!
What happens to the ship hull section that was Russian built?
I wanted to see the Russians saw off their part of the ships and let the rest sink into the French waters.
France: brand name of “surrender” is now the brand name for Non, nous ne pouvons pas, No, we cannot.
Douteux: Unreliable.
@ Red Ryder,
Q; France: brand name of “surrender” is now the brand name for Non, nous ne pouvons pas, No, we cannot.
R; Not before long and the streets of Paris will be filled with people carrying placards and wearing Tee-shirts with the unbeatable slogan, ‘Je Suis Mistral‘ plastered all over.
‘Je Suis Mistral’
Best line…
Red Ryder, I’m French, what do you think I feel when I read your comment ?
I did not address the French people. The comment is addressed about the government.
It is good for people who cannot control their government (nearly all) to understand that their government is not their country, any more than they as individuals are their country.
Thus, take no offense. I have to suffer all the stones thrown at America for the horrors inflicted by a runaway government. So, too, America’s slave holder history, massacres of Native Americans and various abysmal conflicts engineered in my fellow citizens’ behalf publicly or secretly.
Don’t take personal what is not personal.
I look forward to the French people who go to the streets for all sorts of social issues, to go to the streets to demand normalization of relations with the great people of Russia.
Honor demands correct action not anything less. Deliver the Mistrals and tear off the shackles of the Hegemon. That would be something that would demonstrate France as a brand of righteousness.
Putin clearly stated this is a new age of sovereignty for all nations. France needs to claim hers. And French people should demand Hollande be a sovereign leader. He took a good step when he went alone to Moscow to beg Putin write Minsk 2. Then he “married” Merkel and has been a woos ever since.
He alone among Western leaders went to the Armenian memorial and was there with Putin.
So, encourage Hollande. He can always live out his life after doing the right thing in safety and honor in Russia.
The CEO of Total (French oil corp.) was a man of honor. Sadly, he died in an accident. But he stood up to the sanction regime.
Doing the right thing is easy.
Take no offense, dear French friends. I love the language, the culture and have I regard and high hopes for your nation.
It’s your government, as with all of us and our governments, that is the culprit.
About your “France, brand name” for surrender and other couch potato bullshit…. Well, many Frenchs did actually surrender, while many others died; but they were kind enough to do so only when the last Briton had left the scene and was safely returned home.
Another great western nation did not surrender because (perhaps) at the moment, they had no issue with Hitler and Co, and waited quietly another two years to join the fight.
Have you any name for that Mr Ryder?
Even though FDR had been heavily implicated in stirring up the Poles to refuse any concessions, Germany to insist on those concessions, and Britain and France to declare war on Germany if it and the Poles went to war. FDR made it clear that the USA would certainly be right there to back them up – then he quietly slid away and waited for Europe to be engulfed by chaos.
American methods have not changed as much as you might think. They were similar in the days of Teddy Roosevelt, and President Polk who decided Mexico was much too big and needed a trim. And the many presidents who just knew that the best thing for the native Americans would be to vanish from the Earth. (Ask a native American – if you can find a live one – how many treaties the Great White Father kept with them. You’ll find that’s a great big fat zero).
Fredric…you come into a room fighting don’t you ? Lighten up…his comment was supposed to be funny and it is funny….can’t you take a joke ?
Totally agree. The French have sacrificed their industry and workers like pawns for the US empire. Vive la Russie!
In answer to your question about the hull sections made in Russia.
The French company sub-contracted those sections to a Russian company who were paid for their construction, so ownership of them is with the French. Normal commercial practice.
Russia should ask for payment in gold rather than Euros
I know right? The e.u. now prints €60 Billion à Monthey out of thin air… and that is what Russia wil accept in lieu of tangible, useful goods.
Once again,sad. Truly sad for those of us who had placed great hopes in Putin, but began seeing the light a few months ago when it became obvious the guy is out of his league.
Putin is so far ahead of these western “leaders” that you thought him to be behind.
He’s doing laps around them.
He’s playing 3D chess while Obama plays tiddlely winks.
you are dead right!
Charette, I don’t understand your point. If Russia wants tangible, goods, they can convert it almost immediately after receiving payment. Your drawing conclusions from the fact the Russia is accepting euros is not logical. You reduce your own credibility with posts like this.
By “convert it almost immediately,” you mean buy something from the EU. Between the sanctions and the Eurozone’s throttled production [i.e. austerity], how easily can Russia buy something with those euros?
I think Hornet means convert to gold. Correct me if I’m wrong Hornet.
“Convert to gold”? Okay, who is going to trade away their gold for euros? I’m sure Russia can find some takers, but over a billion euros worth?
Could be gold, could be anything else that is not covered by sanctions. Point is, while the Euro is legal tender, Russia can spend it, convert it to other currencies, etc. Right now, neither the euro or the USD are worthless.
“Who is going to convert their gold for Euros?” Forgive me, but do you understand how markets work? How do you think Russia buys gold now?
True, the Euro and USD are not worthless yet; it’s just that this is a little like the game hot potato. The people left holding those monies when the music stops will be in for a bad surprise.
And I figured Russia was buying gold with rubles or dollars. Russia’s still producing stuff to back the ruble, and the Petrodollar will be in effect for a while longer.
charette
Truly sad for those of us who had placed great hopes in Putin
I wasn’t aware that Israelis and other zionazis had placed such high hopes on Putin. :D
Indeed. As a side note, it’s interesting that they can print 60 billion a month for private banks, but not 20 billion total for Greece because Greece is threatening to start using their money to help, you know, actual people instead of bankers.
Exactly. The EU is a prison and we EU ‘citizens’ are prisoners of NATO. Even the so-called neutral Irish. Heroes in 1916 denigrated to drones of the bankers in 2014. Appalling how we have become acquiescent to all our fathers fought against.
Armchair generals, experts in hindsight? I look at the Russia of the nineties and the Russia of Putin.
Your user name reminds me of another word, charlatan.
What Ideology do you profess to?
Russia today as utopia? No.
Putin. Putin was an unknown that come to power when all we heard about Russia in the western MSM was Russian mafia.
US empire will be remembered in future history, but their so called presidents will not.
Putin will be remembered in the history books.
For one man to take Russia from what it was in 99 to what it is now is a historical feat.
you had previously been posting re success of USA economy?
“For the first three months of this year Mcdonald’s closed 350 stores and is planning to close other 350 by the end of the year.
Fast food giant recently announced of closure of 350 poorly performing stores this year and added that 350 stores were already closed this year in the US, Japan and China.”
http://english.pravda.ru/news/business/24-04-2015/130364-mcdac-0/
While I’m the first to denigrate the US economy (whose apparent growth of late has required a good deal of statistical sleight of hand and number-fudging), I find it hard to see the closure of hundreds of McDonalds as a bad thing.
Even better to take Euro’s and buy gold. The longer this game is played – the more desperate will be for gold when the music stops. China is doing the same thing. They own trillions of FRN’s and are quietly ridding themselves without causing a panic. The frenzy for real assets will come soon enough. IMO, the time for any rational solution to the Fed/Isreali/City of London policies passed after 2008.
2008 when these were ordered seems like a long time ago in the light of what has happened since.
In fact a lot of president medvedev decisions of that time, buying these ships and stopping the s-300 to iran seem really shot sighted looking at things today.
Russia can use the money to pay its own workers to build Their own ships.
I do feel sorry for the workers at the ship yard as they have continued to work and now it’s all for nothing.
I hope they don’t face redundancy
I’m going to wait for someone to compose a litttle ditty, using as a template the theme song from Gilligan’s Island, but of course with nouns substituted throughout to commemorate the central characters this.
PS:
I expect to finally see some drastic action over this in russia, starting with as a minimum Lavrov unfriend-ing Hollande from his FB.
What I heard is that the extra money is not fines, but compensation for various expenses, because Russia has decided to be nice about it.
But of course this is better for Russia with money and reason to increase their building facilities, which will further make Russia independent of EU nonsense, as well as getting more suitable ships. Maybe Russia can even use the new facility to make ships for sale.
‘Sanction’ also means
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sanction
1. Authoritative permission or approval that makes a course of action valid. See Synonyms at permission.
2. Support or encouragement, as from public opinion or established custom.
If some other NATO country buys them I wonder if it will discover that half of it uses an old Russian size system (Arshin? http://survincity.com/2011/01/old-russian-measure-of-length-weight-volume/ ) instead of metric and repair parts will be very expensive or hard to get? Will they have to learn Russian and Cyrillic to read the labels on the controls and the repair manuals? And wait until they find the open can of rotting sardines the Russians left under the radiator! Could it be used as a floating casino or amusement park? Will these be christened with a bottle of French whine?
I’m sorry — that’s a silly post, but considering the circumstances it’s hard to avoid being silly — the story just puts one into that mood. I keep thinking I’ll wake up and people will ask why I didn’t realize this was a dream when such absurd and laughable events kept happening, which should have tipped me off.
To add to the sanction silliness: how about Government sanctioned poison, AKA booze?
Perhaps Russia could use some of the EU1 billion and dump it on the market which would depress the Euro and then they could buy the Euros back at a cheaper price? Rinse and repeat. After they get tired of that after a while they could buy some real gold (not paper futures)?
I wonder what carrot/stick the Hegemon used? After rethinking many times I heard India was dumping the French Rafale jets and going with Russian ones -not sure if that is still true or not. If it is it might explain a few things. Does anyone know the status?
Well, another point on which you were wrong. A few others and I had claimed from the beginning this would happen.
Seems you guys really don’t get the empire. Perhaps reading Soral’s “understand the Empire’ would help?
Ha ha ha! I hadn’t read the last paragraph… damage French reputation even more… ???
The French have sold more armament in the last four months than they have in the last fifteen years… despite the mistral repercussions you guys were forecasting…
All this grasping at straws is kind of sad really.
Charette,
Your attitude displayed in your postings are so rude and negative.
You always put other posters down
You make this an unattractive sight to visit. As your constant negativity makes me wonder why you come here?
Why don’t stick with the mainstream media where they agree with you how terrible Russia, as this is all you ever say.
As I’ve stated several times already, I come here for the occasional good analysis or comment. Khazin for instance is objective and his analyses are typically very good, even if it’s not always hat you want to hear.
What I find interesting here is that you posted your comment in response to a comment in which I posted a FACT.
So it is not a question of being positive or negative: it is a FACT.
it is anglosaxon war on the rest of the world.
5 evil eyes with centre of satan at london is plotting all this.
I’ve never denied this. What I’ve criticized is lies pretending they are not winning. Because, unfortunately, they are.
You want to bury your head in the sand?
This isn’t a war on Russia – it’s a race war, the oligarch’s versus the rest.
Step out of the shadows.
Actually sorry to say but Charette is right. The French just did a huge sale of Rafales Airplanes to India.
( From Moderator: thank you for your contribution – happy to have your input. If, however, getting involved in such an argument, would you kindly post the appropriate link to the news? Regards )
But I also dislike Charette’s “schadenfreude”.
And Egypt. And Ukraine. Also, the UAE and other Middle East countries are looking into buying massive amounts of rafales.
Plus Royal Caribean placed orders to have two cruise ships to be built in the Saint Nazaire yards.
Etc., etc.
It’s not a matter of schadenfreude, it’s a matter of being objective and not misleading people.
i find all this wishful thinking extremely harmful.
“massive” amounts. Nobody wants that overpriced fighter from an unrelieable source.
Trolling along
Well, obviously Egypt and India do. And others are negotiating big orders.
India only wants them to reverse engineer the goodies: transfer technology on the cheap.
Egypt is the beneficiary of the murderous gulf dicktators who have a french fethish for weaponry, but not for cars.
Bentleys for pilots, Rafales for SiSi, or is it IsIs who winds up with them.
The point is France IS selling armament, [ ].
And as I’ve stated, they had not sold that much in a very long time.
yes being ostrich like lavrov or may be he is outright traitor is not going to help Russia.
if putin had understood the intentions of anglos controlled west as it seems from his interviews then it is even more criminal to not prepare for massive and big military war and media war at least by 3 years ago.
they knew what the score is then why not any preparation/
why be in delusion about a scrap of paper from nato to guarantee no attack on Russia from missile shield ?
and why backstabbing at least 4 to 5 allies in their difficult times?
/
Hey, don’t you understand we are not supposed to ask obvious questions here? Because we are “trolls” if we do?
But you are right. Hoe come grand chess master did not anticipate any of this a few years back?
http://russia-insider.com/en/washingtons-mistral-fiat-flattens-french-arms-industry-sukhoi-flies-high/5690
…
India has essentially annulled it gigantic arms contract with France for the purchase and combined construction of 126 Rafale fighter planes; the Indian Prime Minister agreed to buy only
36 of them during his visit to Paris last week, a responsible government source stated. Instead, India will buy 127 fifth generation Russian fighter jets.
…
Well, that’s the Russian spin. Better cross check your references and read what the Indian press, for instance, has to say on this: namely that this will lead to other orders.
India Economic Times and Reuters confirm Russia Insider information. The order for Rafales went from 126 to only 26.
Here is the link:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/mmrca-deal-government-may-scrap-20-billion-project-for-126-rafale-fighter-jets/articleshow/46913876.cms
you were asked politely to provide links…..
what? I thought the Rafale has had a huge success but in fact it seems the opposite?
No they sold 36 after blowing the “big” deal for 120 fighters with India. Russia will sell them 126 fighters and make alot of money.
Haven’t you heard The heroes of Ukraine are broke.
Egypt , where’s the cash.
The slimey Saudis spent 3 billion on weapons for Lebanon, procured from France. Nice friends those Saudis.
Rafales: 36 or so planes sold to India is hardly a huge order. It was supposed to be an order for 120+. FRA being subservient to the Cabal is the reason the deal is small, mostly insignificant.
Mostly insignificant? This deal is worth more that the Mistral deal. Plus the argument here is that obviously Franceis still selling armament despite the claim that the Mistral debacle would change all that.
But after all, it’s not just France reneging on legal contracts… Iranians and Syrians probably know full well what I’m talking about.
Charette, I study the Indian military, and I’ve followed the MMRCA contract closely. It is extremely unlikely that the total Rafale order from India will exceed 63 planes. (Frankly speaking, I am not certain that any orders for more than the 36 already announced will go through.) Any way you spin it, that’s a large reduction from the 126 specified in the Request for Proposal (RFP). Indian analysts definitely noticed the non-delivery of the Mistrals.
Also, it should be noted that the Rafale order was linked to Airbus’s announcement that its outsourcing from Indian companies will rise, by 2020, to an annual $2 billion from the present $400 million.
http://www.business-standard.com/article/news-ians/airbus-assures-modi-2-billion-for-made-in-india-roundup-115041100592_1.html
Egypt buys 24 rafale jets for nearly $6 Billion:
http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2015/04/12/modis-flyaway-french-deal/
In other words, the French just sold for nearly $20 billion worth of rafale jets.
What were you guys saying about the mistral deal hurting France’s armament industry again?
Stop being a b*tch.
If you have valid points to make, then make them without polluting the board with snarky, passive aggressive nonsense.
i thought I could leave the charlatans at the guardian where I usually do battle and come here for some peace and quiet like an oasis in the desert.
Looks like I was wrong. Armchair generals? What could you do without them?
Charette, what would you do if you took over the Russia of 99. One person in a country of 100 and something million where corruption ect was endemic? This is not a group, or a section of the population coming to power but one person.
To expect that one person could turn 1999 Russia into some form of utopia or garden of eden, you really are delusional Charlat.
“what would you do if you took over the Russia of 99”
Get rid of those guys in the administration, reinstall the administration of 1917 and make sure the capitalists of Bolshevik Capitalists of 1924 didn’t return:
http://makealeftturn.blogspot.co.uk/p/how-marxist-were-bolsheviks.html
“…[]…From 1924, however, and the rise of Stalin to the leadership of the party, theories such as ‘socialism in one country’ were fundamental breaks from the Marxist heritage of the party. A new ‘class’ of bureaucrats developed that acted like a capitalist class and exploited the working class once more. In 1928 the first ‘Five Year Plan’ indicated that the new emphasis was on capital accumulation. The so-called ‘Old Bolsheviks’ were discredited, arrested and/or executed. Workers’ rights were withdrawn and workers resumed their subordinate role. The state was strengthened as the leaders sought economic and military power. In short, there had been an internal counter-revolution that had given up the ideas of Marx and returned to capitalism, albeit in a new form.”
@Anonymous 10:01 April 26, 2015
Re “Charette is right” France just closed a huge deal with India to sell Rafales.
You are totally and utterly wrong. India Cancelled a $20Billion Strategic deal with Rafale and reduced it to a non strategic, tacticald deal worty only a quarter the original contract: reduced to only $4Billion, which is smaller than France’s deal with Egypt. Indian PM Narendra Modi personally stuck this cancellation down Hollande’s throat, Indian officials stated that they wanted to reduce risk exposure to $20Billion given France may not honor the deal in the future such as what happened in the Mistral deal with Russia. The $4Billion consolation (loser’s prize) was akin to a pat on the head you give an a-hole after you’ve given him a swift sharp kick in the ass (canceling the $20Billion deal = swift sharp kick in the ass for Hollande and the French establishment).
Anon: thank you for your contribution but, to not allow much room for rancor in what may become a complicated back-and-forth, would you kindly link to the information? Regards
Nope, Anonymous. The Indians reversed their purchase of the French planes. They’re going for Russian instead.
Sorry, I was referring to the sale of 36 Raffles recently announced to great fanfare in the French press. But then the commentators here set the record straight thankfully (i.e. that t went from 126 to 36)!
http://rt.com/news/253181-putin-interview-us-militants/
“Putin accuses US of backing North Caucasus militants……[]…The president named the doubling of Russia’s GDP and tripling of the average income among his top achievements over the past 15 years.”
cf http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/11/russia-rich-richer-poor-poorer
“…[]…But most Russians can only stare in envy at the super-wealthy with their Bentleys and dachas. According to the report, income inequality between the mid-1980s and the mid-2000s has increased eight times more than in Hungary, and five times more than in the Czech Republic.
The huge gap between rich and poor “largely negates the economic and social achievements of recent years,” the HSE report said.
Yasin added that the study indicated there were “two Russias”. The wealthiest fifth of the population received a pay cheque equivalent to 198% of its value in 1991, while the poorest fifth made only 55% in real terms. In total, 60% of the population has the same real income or less than the average 20 years ago.”
Budapest avg monthly income $500-600 w very high taxes. Gasoline is $8/gallon.
Hungary has no middle class, only rich or poor.
Russian avg monthly income before latest US fiscal attacks, in December 2014 $838.
Now $660.
I’m always suspicious of articles that won’t give you actual numbers, but speak of “8 times the increase” or whatever. But what can you expect from the Guardian.
Russia is doing very well for a country which escaped being a virtual colony of the US only 15 years ago.
I’m always suspicious of analysis referring to “averages”. The 1% of the 1% love that – it hides the truth of the massive inequality in society.
Ruissia is doing very well for 20% of it’s population and ok to good for 20% of it’s population and badly (worse than under the “fascist” commis) for 60% of it’s population.
Maybe the current administration are worse than the other fascist?
Russia doing well? – undoubtedly, for some.
No different to “the West”
@Anon: “60% of the population has the same real income or less than the average 20 years ago”
That’s not the entire picture. In spite of the picture you’re trying to make, Russians have a very high home ownership rate, higher than the USA or Canada for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_ownership_rate
In the United States the bottom 20% is on the same real income as in the 1970. The next 40% are about level with 1989.
The majority of income growth in ALL industrialised nations has been at the top levels, because so much of the growth is from “investments” rather than wages… and only those who have money left over after living expenses can afford to invest. Most of the investment is not in physical goods but in financial instruments, ie stocks, shares, futures etc.
Just an Observer
Don’t feed the troll. What sound does a troll make; is it oink, oink? About as welcome as a pig at a picnic. Seriously, Moderator. Haven’t we had enough of this one?
I posted facts. You always post ad hominems: the type of stuff a moderator is supposed to moderate.
You don’t want to have an honest debate?
Here’s another fact for you: France put the Rafale on the market for export in 2001.
It had never sold any until about six weeks ago, with both orders coming from countries supposedly fighting the empire.
And Dassault’s CEO has said other orders are being negotiated.
The CEO of any serious corporation is paid to be positive and cheery even when the realty is otherwise. He is trying to make positive a disappointment. India will not buy anything else from FRA until FRA leaves the the lap of the US Elite. That’s the carrot in only buying 36.
Is India’s former diplomat Bhadrakumar a paid troll?
http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2015/04/12/modis-flyaway-french-deal/
If Libya’s Muammar Gaddafi were alive, we could have asked him how the French get around authoritarian rulers and tin pot dictators from the developing countries who carry fat cheque books in their pockets while traveling abroad. As the dreamy picture in the Hindu newspaper immortalizes the moment for historians of Indian diplomacy, the French leadership went the whole hog to make Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit memorable.
( more ) – see link above
Dear Moderator, please log Charrette’s IP and ban him permanently. There’s no discussion possible with him, he’s a troll, he’s massively focused on disrupting this site at the moment, and he’s killing threads.
When serious commentators with a track record here announce they’re leaving the thread, because of the trolls then maybe it’s time to get a ruling from Saker, or maybe run a poll so regular commenters here can vote to get him banned?
This is war, Charrette is a weapon of war, and Saker’s most engaged readers are the victims of this warfare.
Thanks for listening.
Thank you Grieved. My sentiments exactly. A most unpleasant creep, paired w one of the anonymice.
I agree with Grieved and Blue…
too much noise from ‘Charette’…
UAE Restarts Rafale Talks With France
http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/air-space/strike/2015/04/19/uae-restarts-rafale-talks-with-france/25870693/
Charette, India has ordered 272 Sukhoi-30 MKI’s (Russian). By way of comparison, India has ordered 36 Rafale’s (French).
I think we have, and we don’t need all the dysinformation from these trolls. I think also the suggestion that posters need to log on with something other than ‘anonymous’ should be seriously considered — that alone would not reveal any private information, but could help clarify discussions.
The problem with dysinformation is that it should be corrected rather than left unchallenged so readers don’t think it is valid — and that takes up time, energy, and page space.
It is clear that Charette is a troll and clogging the writing space is what he is paid for. He should be completely disregarded. Don’t waste your time in answering him.
Well, I’m out of this thread — too much noise and dysinformation to sort through, taking too much time and energy — a big reason I don’t regularly frequent sites like RT and other troll-filled blogs any more. Life is too short.
On the off-chance that you are joking, here’s a link that discusses a process that ends with the earth not being at the centre of the universe (but that was the general view up to 17th century)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Center_of_the_Universe
The truth is out there – or is it?
Exactly so, Blue. Hijacks the whole discussion.
Cui bono? What’s in it for France? What kind of thumbscrew does the U.S. have into Hollande? Very odd decision indeed.
Even more stupid Saker,they will have to pay(french gov)5 millions eur/monthy just to get them in ‘shape'(maintenance)in the harbour.Imagine the total cost.But the real cost is not there only.A lot of non nato vassals countries will now be reluctant(Brics)to buy anything french(I’m mean big orders not perfume or wine of course),because they will think twice before.One big winner here,of course the US which are selling their weapons,patriots like hotcakes to their archi vassals puppets like Poland and the Baltics.So stupid they don’t even buy ‘european made’but on the other side they agree to receive the rain of money which comes from the EU(subsidies).
Hollande l’idiot utile….like all ENA politicians(they are all,right of false left).
I’m not sure any other nations will be put off by Hollande’s blatant obsequiousness to the USA; they are aware of the fact that it is a punishment aimed at Russia only and anything they buy will have no problems. I wish it were otherwise but that’s my opinion for what its worth. I’m sure the US will reward their little French poodle.
Hollande is so busy mollifying the Gaystapo anyway that he cannot think straight anymore.
With the ruble now lower,this will make a big amount of money in RF.Or they will put this cash in the CB reserves,just in case…it will compensate a bit for the sanctions.
Finaly France is paying for her own sanctions twice..lol
Since these ships were designed for the Black Sea, perhaps France could sell them to fellow NATO country Turkey, and then Turkey could be persuaded to do a deal with Russia out the back-door, so to speak.
@JJ Joseph: I love how people refuse to read, but nonetheless are more than willing to comment. The Mistral is a class of ships, France already has 3 of them. Explicitly in the article the Saker states the Mistral is NOT suitable for the Black Sea. Most importantly all seas are more or less the same, ships are not designed for seas they are designed for missions (some are designed for climates).
@JJ Joseph: didn’t mean to troll you Joe, I apologies; just a bit tired…I guess I better go to bed :)
Sorry Saker!
“all seas are more or less the same”
Actually, they’re not. The Treaty of Montreux imposes a size limit on foreign warships accessing the Black Sea. The Mistrals are over the 15,000 tonne limit – OK for Black Sea nations, but a non-Black Sea nation couldn’t bring a Mistral through the Turkish Straits. In addition, the Mistrals aren’t open seas warships, they’re much too small, smaller than a standard container ship. The only NATO nations that might be interested would be France or – wait for it – Turkey.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits
Non-Black Sea state warships in the Straits must be under 15,000 tons. No more than nine non-Black Sea state warships, with a total aggregate tonnage of no more than 30,000 tons, may pass at any one time, and they are permitted to stay in the Black Sea for no longer than twenty-one days.
Although the treaty is often cited as prohibiting aircraft carriers in the straits,[12] there is no explicit prohibition on aircraft carriers in the treaty. However, the tonnage limits in Article 14, which apply to all non-Black Sea powers
Thank you so much SAKER for bringing us the news about what is really going on in the world.
You are doing mankind such a great service! Make God be with and protect you!
Increasingly I feel as if I am living in an asylum run by the inmates, except that in the current situation these inmates are intelligent and evil and recognize no boundaries for their actions.
I cannot believe that French citizens would tolerate 1.1 billion of their money being wasted and the reputation of the French ship builders being tarnished in this manner. I’m not French but I am still disgusted by such insane stupidity. I am so grateful that there is a Putin and Mother Russia to stand strong against these evil forces. May they both persevere!
It’s not so much an asylum as an animal farm run by the world oligarchs.
In the link it says, “Poland will buy $2 billion worth of helicopters form the French” to compensate for the sale falling through??
If France cancels this sale this it means NATO still has lots of funds or they fear the US. Either way it’s not a good sign.
Amazing to me that France should have been so willing to advertise their subserviance to the US.
Dances With Bears has its usual crop of faintly amusing stories, including
Poland’s continuing to back away from the Ukrainian war entanglement. So Israel’s trying to blackmail them w threat of renewing demand for Jewish reparations for WWII.
http://johnhelmer.net/?p=13204
Meanwhile how war party in Washington is losing E Europe on other fronts too.
http://johnhelmer.net/?p=13176 At least 25% of Czechs are anti-NATO; their little mechanized parade was shunted out of downtown.
Couple of Kolomoisky stories; he’s investing in Cleveland & Pitsburgh.
What’s really telling is that both rt.com and sputniknews.com do NOT have this story on their front page!
http://rt.com/news/253161-france-russia-mistral-ships/
More banker insights:
For Nazi Industrialists And Hitler’s Banker “All Was Forgiven”
‘In recent years, there has been much shock and stunned reactions among the general public as one after another banker avoided any prison time, despite perpetrating (and benefiting from the subsequent bailout) the biggest financial crisis know to mankind’
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-04-26/why-nazi-industrialists-and-hitlers-banker-all-was-forgiven
IMO, somewhat interesting if one desires an intro into Lucifer’s capos of this world.
Dear The Saker,
I thought it was a 1.5bln Euros pre-payment return:
http://tass.ru/en/world/791592
http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150424/1021331476.html
So if its now 1.1bln then Russia has lost 400.000 Euros? I can’t believe Russia would take a hit esp. as they have lost a lot of money in penalties. Russia gave France a face-saving way out.
The RT article cites French sources – the Russian articles have a different figure. I wonder which is correct and if the US will scupper this also.
Rgds,
Veritas
France plans to pay back costs for the Mistral helicopter carriers ordered by Russia if they are not delivered, returning €800 million and paying compensation for other expenses totaling €300 million, French media reports citing government sources.
from Deepresource
The local french real estate market is tanking. We have negative interest rates in Swizterland on ten year federal government bonds, so you would think local Swiss would be snapping up cheap neighboring real estate.
Wrong!
The Mistral affair has left most observer with a strong negative sentiment for business development in France for the rest of Mr. Holland’s term.
The French sold a radar system to Saddam which was disabled by satellite when the US invaded Iraq. Nearly everything that France builds has a disable function from a satellite as dictated by the US. I wonder if the Mistrals were also equipped in this fashion. The reduced sale of the Raffale to India contained a very tight production schedule and a deadline for fly away as a group. The French may not be able to achieve this. India will keep changing the deal as they have done in the past.
Could you provide details regarding this? Thanks in advance.
I found quite a bit of evidence in the past which I will try to find and post. A quick response is a reference to the following article: http://sputniknews.com/politics/20150211/1018111141.html
Avarachan,
This is in reference to your question by way of a movie classic. You can download ‘The International’ for in insight into the game as it’s played.
Here’s a quote from the movie:
Umberto Calvini: [In explaining the “true” nature of banking in the world] The IBBC is a bank. Their objective isn’t to control the conflict, it’s to control the debt that the conflict produces. You see, the real value of a conflict, the true value, is in the debt that it creates. You control the debt, you control everything. You find this upsetting, yes? But this is the very essence of the banking industry, to make us all, whether we be nations or individuals, slaves to debt.
Mind you – there is nothing wrong with the Mistrals, they are superb and very capable ships.
They look like flat topped ocean liners to me – massive floating aluminum beer cans. :D
For their size, what they carry is rather small. Rather like that embarrassingly ridiculous aircraft carrier the RN is planning to build. These are “pork barrel” ships. They are profit producing mediocrity, like WW2 pindo escort carriers. Good for capitalist oligarchs, but simply bloated, overpriced, fat targets in modern warfare. A Russian design would cost vastly less, be much more reasonable in size vs capability comparison and exponentially more effective in its role.
Originally, there were to be 4 of these ships built for Russia, two in France, and two in Russia. The Russian built ones were quickly cancelled. My understanding the reasoning behind the purchase of these “white elephants”, besides the political ones of achieving economic ties with France in order to influence French quislings to be more reasonable with Russia (and less subservient to the ZPC/NWO freakshow), and freeing up Russian slips and labour for other production, was to gain access to some new French construction techniques. So in that area, I agree with Saker, the Russians definitely got the tech they sought, so for Russian needs, the Mistrals are surplus now.
Incidentally, the French (or rather their zionazi handlers) played right into Russian hands, much as “massa” did with a Russian-Israeli drone dealing a few years ago. The Russians contracted with Israel for some drone production (essentially for similar reasons as with the French for the Mistrals), the Israelis played their expected childish games, the Russians took the tech, terminated the contract over the Israeli dirty dealing, and moved on, leaving the Israelis pretty much looking stupid.
Saker, it seems that you need to answer a very important question. Why in the world would Russia order the construction of any ships that do not meet their technical specifications? You say the Mistrals are not well adapted to most Russian conditions and would have required a lot of very expensive modifications. This appears to be nonsensical.
It’s the spin. Every time Putin gets slapped in the face, it somehow becomes an amazing Putin strategic move.
Now, I would not care if it weren’t giving people false hopes.
News flash… the economy of the U.S. Is not going to collapse any time soon…
Anonyme
Is that how “anonymous” is translated by your Hebrew to English inhouse web translators? ;D
I thought you left w your team-mate, Charette. Go away.
Saker has addressed this before, more than once. In fact, some commenters here have addressed it as well. Suggest you read a bit, you will find the answer.
Bucko, Medvedev ordered; he’s pro-Western, probably eager to do business w ’em.
Reich Admiral Doenitz and US Admiral Rickover had something in common: their contempt for the survivability of surface ships in the face of attack by submarines.
The Soviet Union instead made the mistake that the Kaiser and the Fuhrer did. It seems that the Russian navy is doing the same. They are enamored with the prospect of using sleek battleships, and projecting air and land power from the sea.
The purpose of the Russian navy should not be to project naval power to hostile shores; but rather to disrupt -perhaps even destroy- the US Navy. Aircraft carriers, amphibious landing ships, and heavy cruisers will prove to be even more vulnerable sailing under Russian or Chinese colors that they will be under American ones.
Arthur Brina
Doenitz operated from a position of desperation and illusion. Rickover operated from a position of realism. For that realism, he was essentially fired and sidelined in the ZPC/NWO oligarch’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” navy. A USN carrier task group is basically dead meat if they are near a Russian (Soviet in Rickover’s time) sub, now this also applies if they are within missile range of Russian SS missile forces, whether mounted shipboard, or on land, or by aircraft armed with AS missiles. The rest of your comment about the Soviet union naval strategy is regurgitation of neocon/fascist propaganda. IE:
They are enamored with the prospect of using sleek battleships
Pathetic.
If it were this easy for Russia’s navy to sink America’s Navy, why bother at all with the charade of letting the Americans run the worlds oceans? Or perhaps it’s another of Putin’s masterful chess moves and cunning plans to let the U.S pretend to run the oceans till they self destruct from boredom. The American Navy doesn’t only consist of carrier groups you and surface platforms, they have every weapon/ platform Russia possesses in addition to those carrier groups. They don’t operate in isolation, which means sink a single battleship and it’s the last act the state responsible will execute before being sent back to the Stone Age in a hail of nuclear missiles. The same applies to American bases in all those host countries they occupy. Dreaming if ways to kill them off is the same as dreaming of how many ways to trigger a claymore mine with the business end facing you, it’s your funeral.
BH– I hope this is true. Veterans Today does put out some plausible disinfo, so it’s difficult to know if this particular story is true or not.
Discussing VT is a dead end:
http://www.voltairenet.org/article185860.html
Thank you BH & Paul II. That was lovely on Voltaire.
The time of the battleships practically ended with WWI, in which they did not do much anyway.
Illustrative example but it’s flawed because VT is a certified disinformation cite. I used to talk to a guy who contributed to that site often, he’s one of their main contributors. A personal friend of Gordon Duff, one of the original founders/moderators of the site. This guy is one of those crackpots who have been dreaming of destroying the U.S government since the ’60’s. That entire site is a honey trap for America’s disaffected extremists who fantasize about impotent schemes that never amount to much besides serving as a cathartic group therapy for those lost souls. He told me the intelligence agencies infiltrate these groups from the moment they gather enough members to register on the radar, then guide and manipulate them with false but good feeling info like the one you cited. He was in his 70’s and had seen enough of this to know the futility of putting faith in such sites or movements that claim to oppose the government within the belly of the beast. All that to say if there was any real veracity to this tale, VT would be the last to know of it, not to mention it would be classified to all but the pentagon. I even heard a version that claimed the U.S service men on board the vessel resigned their commissions in utter disgust at the humiliation the unarmed Su-24 had dealt their warship. Anyone who has served in the U.S military since the 9/11 knows it’s silly to assume it’s some kind of democratic entity where soldiers get to vote and resign because they’re disgusted. It might be a Slavic frame of mind or concept to sacrifice a paycheck for intangible words like honor and embarrassment, but it is laughable to project that unto the American psyche. Those soldiers will wade through neck deep blood to keep the comforts their families enjoy from the military industrial complex. And after the carnage they’ve wrecked the world over, only the naive could buy into such a childish fairytale.
It’s an implausible story at face value. Unless you’re ignorant of the system that is the American death machine.
It’s an implausible story at face value. Unless you’re ignorant of the system that is the American death machine.
hear hear!
what’s the name of this guy ? And the editor, can’t recall his name…Kevin somebody is a good guy….so its maybe the same with VT as with RT….some good some bad
Putin stated in Crimea the way home, that Crimean land based defences were locked onto the ship, that then knew they were being targeted, and retreated.
Typical {…}
[MOD: You have been told before, I hope you don’t have to be told again. It is against to rules to make ad hominem attacks. Please stop sniping at other posters. If you have nothing constructive to add to the topic discussion, say nothing.]
ComfortingThought on April 27, 2015 · at 3:07 am UTC
They don’t operate in isolation, which means sink a single battleship and it’s the last act the state responsible will execute before being sent back to the Stone Age in a hail of nuclear missiles. The same applies to American bases in all those host countries they occupy. Dreaming if ways to kill them off is the same as dreaming of how many ways to trigger a claymore mine with the business end facing you, it’s your funeral.
This may be news to you, but your navy no longer uses battleships. :D
The Russians would not attack a pindo/[G]ATO naval vessel without intending to go full nuclear WW3. That means a glowing planet and cockroaches at the top of the food chain. Your threats of sending Russia back to the stone age in that context are meaningless. I realise, though, that American “exceptionals” (or those who want others to think they’re such when posting comments, IE: websayanim) like to portray everything American as invincible, but reality has long proved otherwise.
BOT TAK, You say, “The Russians would not attack a pindo/[G]ATO naval vessel without intending to go full nuclear WW3.”
Why do you say that? Are you saying that in a limited engagement US ships are sacrosanct? To sink or obliterate one is certainly a serious step, but I don’t see any reason to assume that it’s necessarily equivalent to “nuclear WWIII”.
If a US ship fires on a Russian ship or on Crimea or other part of Russia, certainly they must know that Russia will fire back.
In fact, I think the real reason that US didn’t bomb Syria after the false flag chemattack was the presence of Chinese & Russia ships offshore, threatening to do just that to any US bomber.
Sorry, I don’t really know much about warfare. Perhaps you’ve a reason to say what you did. If so, please tell; always eager to learn.
Penelope on April 28, 2015 · at 5:03 am UTC
Why do you say that? Are you saying that in a limited engagement US ships are sacrosanct? To sink or obliterate one is certainly a serious step, but I don’t see any reason to assume that it’s necessarily equivalent to “nuclear WWIII”.
I think for either to directly attack each other, as in attacking each other’s ships, such as that, would initiate WW3. I think that is understood by both sides, and I think this is why neither has attacked each other’s ships, and also why neither would think about openly doing so. As of now, both sides know they not could prevail in any worthwhile manner from a nuclear war, this MAD doctrine still means they do not attack each other directly. That means they do not attack each other’s naval vessels without going full tilt.
Krasnodar submarine just been launched, fourth out of six, and Admiral Grogorovich just gone for sea trials, first out of six frigates to be built.
Saker,
Below is a link that talks about the US role in the Chechen war. I think it is important in light of Putin revelation of the US involvement in that area.
https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/prisoners-of-the-caspian-part-one/
But Erica, the link is pure lies. 9/11 was an inhouse job, with some help by the Israelis. Boston Marathon was a hoax; unlikely anyone was hurt in it. The Chechen brothers were patsies.
Unfortunately most of the photographic proof re Boston Marathon has been deleted from the web, but there’s still a lot of text if you search for it.
regards
Saker, moderator, I am considerably upset about the continuing denial by Penelope of innocent victims in Boston, when normally we are compassionate to these people for example Vanya and Kristen in Donbass plus thousands of others,
re “unlikely anyone was hurt in it”…………an example of truth denial big time surely, how can we hold ourselves up to the world to be credible by complaining of trolling but letting this disinfo continue……….
eg
Boston police Officer Lauren Woods said she helped perform chest compressions on 23-year-old Boston University student Lingzi Lu, whose whole body shook and whose eyes “kept rolling in and out”.
Lu was placed in an ambulance, but was almost immediately removed when a paramedic determined “she was gone” and chose to save the ambulance space for someone who could be helped.”
“With an artificial limb clearly visible below her skirt, Roseann Sdoia said she saw two flashes of white light and then realised she no longer had a leg.
Prosecutors showed the jury a gruesome photo of her mangled leg.”
“Prosecutors called 17 witnesses over three days, mainly victims who lost loved ones or limbs in the explosions. ”
“Jury weeps as father of marathon bombing victim Krystle Campbell pays tribute to his daughter and shares her childhood photos at Tsarnaev sentencing
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3049601/Heartbreaking-childhood-photos-Boston-Marathon-bombing-victim-Krystle-Campbell-shown-jury-penalty-phase-begins-convicted-murderer-Dzhokhar-Tsarnaev.html#ixzz3YUjACZj8
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook”
“A man who lost his legs in the Boston Marathon bombings has testified that he locked eyes with one of the bombers just before the attack.”
etc etc
a straight forward google search, not “most photographic proof has been removed from the web”.
“Mods, this person is wrong, i demand actions to protect my belief system”
JJ,
There may have been some real victims in Boston, but there’s much to wonder about as well. So much, that one can’t help but cast doubt on the whole episode.
Though a little disorganized, an exhaustive collection of anomalies at the “bomb site” can be seen at: http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/ (about halfway down the page).
The “Great Chase” for the perpetrators leaves much to ponder as well. IOW, whatever the real carnage (and I’m sure Penelope has great sympathy for any real victims), it is clear that there were purposes in play beyond the popular story of the “Chechen Terrorists”.
The 7/7 bombings in London are full of similar anomalies, and 9/11 is anomalous from start to finish.
The MSM doesn’t confine its lies to Russia, you know. You may want to investigate the sources from which your beliefs spring.
Erebus, thank you so much for the link. This is at least part of the photographic material that had gone missing from other sites. I haven’t had time to review all of the material yet.
I think that it can be very difficult for people to avoid being carried away by the media when it appeals to our natural compassion and empathy. Especially when one is not familiar w ‘crisis actors” who are routinely used in these hoax incidents.
For example, JJ felt that possession of an artificial leg guaranteed that the injury occurred in Boston. Actually, amputee-actors are routinely used in training of rescue personnel.
Thanks again for the link; really useful.
Glad to be of service, Penelope.
I thought of GlobalResearch as well, but figured some pictures would have a greater impact and they’re disappearing, as you say. It’s a pretty obscure site so perhaps not visited by many and may last a little longer.
BTW, thanks for the link to Reginald Little’s article in the Saker Analysis thread. A little too late to leave comments on that thread, but there is mnuch in the article to comment about.
JJ, I’m very sorry that I can’t show you the photographic links that expose the Boston bombing as a hoax. In order to see thru the lies and “Hollywood” aspects of any of these incidents it’s necessary to closely scrutinize them soon after they occur cuz the telltale evidence and the discrepancies are always swept off the net pretty quickly.
I could describe to you an immense amount of material which I saw & reviewed repeatedly, but you wouldn’t believe any of it. You were emotionally moved by the material that you saw & (perhaps understandably) have decided that that’s reality.
You cite the Daily Mail. I doubt you can find truthful stories about Russia on the Daily Mail. So can you see that they might lie to you about other things too? The purpose of the corporate media is to manufacture your consent.
my God, delusional, trial is taking place in your own country.Must be plastered all over your own US news or have you ignored all of that too? Perhaps you could have tested your own beliefs and actually gone to the trial and listened to the witnesses. I wish I could have. I can’t believe that the whole of the US justice system perhaps is a fake, which it would be, if one extends your logic.Delusional.
The entire US ‘justice’ system is fake.
Plea bargaining achieves a 98% conviction rate.
At over 2 million prison inmates,USA has the biggest prison labor racket ever!
Just like the MIC,with a federal prison in every state,sometimes more, provides employment,cheap prison labor and a permanent underclass upon release and lets not forget the State run prisons.
The fake 13th amendment? ‘No person can be enslaved except for having commited a crime’….therefore nearly everything a black person did could be a crime.
Like leaving an employer without permission!.
Walking along the railroad tracks etc etc.
All historical,documented fact!
Not sure to whom you’re addressing “in your own country”, but I am not American and am many 1000s of km from the USA.
Anyhow, a single corrupted case requires a very limited number of corrupted individuals, and “the whole of the US justice system” need not be “fake” to allow a few cases critical to the state’s agenda and narrative to pass. This is all too common in the history of states, and the US is not “exceptional” enough to avoid it.
Did you actually look at the link I gave above with anything resembling an open mind? If you did, I’d be pleased to hear your critique. If not, you’ll understand that your comments will be given the respect they deserve.
JJ, I really do appreciate how shocked you must feel cuz you’ve not previously considered the possibility of the boston bombing being a hoax.
Regarding the court hearing, I’ll give you just one link. http://www.globalresearch.ca/boston-marathon-bombings-guilty-verdict-exposed-as-a-gross-travesty-of-justice/5442240
If you will reflect a moment I think you probably already know that the US court system is corrupt; we are unable to convict a single financier for the malfeasace that caused the 2008 crash, among many other things.
If you feel you are willing to look at other material pointing out the many contradictions, etc in the bombing story, go to globalresearch.ca. Half way down the page on the left is a search box, type in ‘boston bombing’. It has at least 20 articles on the subject.
Globalresearch.ca is an incredibly reliable Canadian site of some years duration. I should have thought of it as a repository of at least text in the Boston bombing matter. I use the site for all manner of research. It’s an incredible resource.
I’m sorry you’re dismayed, but America is being run by criminals.
Penelope, was 9/11 real? or was it a hoax? did it happen or did they just do a movie and disappear the buildings by magic?
It happened, right? (not quite as they say but it happened). Right?
You yourself say “I’m sorry you’re dismayed, but America is being run by criminals”.
So if a government has already shown itself able and willing to kill 3000+ people for a political benefit, why can’t you believe they’d kill and injure mere 100s ?
Really and truly, it is just SO much easier to set up a real bomb, than it is to organise such a huge scenario with actors. Don’t forget for movies in Hollywood they get 2 or 5 or 10 chances to do it again if it’s not right the first time. Far easier (and cheaper too) to use a real bomb and find some patsies to place it.
KAT KAN, You say, “So if a government has already shown itself able and willing to kill 3000+ people for a political benefit, why can’t you believe they’d kill and injure mere 100s ? ”
You seem to be saying that because 9/11 was a false flag (an actual event blamed on the wrong party), the Boston Bombing cannot have been a hoax (a nonevent).
My beliefs about both events are based on the evidence available.
Your posts are usually very logical but you seem to be unable to entertain the possibility of conspiracy. In the past you have insisted that 9/11 cannot have occurred both as a plane-strike (I say missile) and an explosive demolition– because the demolition alone wd have been more frightening.
Now you say Boston cannot have been a hoax because an actual event wd have been easier to pull off. Maybe it’s easier to get crisis actors if they know that no one is to be hurt. Maybe it’s useful to the criminals who plan these things to find out which law enforcement, media and other personnel are corruptible.
If you honestly follow any one of the “incidents” that occur you will find that it is a conspiratorial, planned event.
You certainly did not read the article. The article is about US involvement in the Chechen and Georgian conflict. It talks about Cheney lobby on Congress and the oil interests.
If you bother getting past the 1st paragraph you would have realized that.
Now, I am bringing attention to this article that was written in 2013, because it supports Putin’s comment on US involvement in the area, and the training the US has done of the “opposition”.
The article helps identify some of those key players.
” first and foremost as part of the strategy Medvedev and his Atlantic Integrationists to forge stronger political, economic, technological and military ties with the West”
Never spend scarce military budget monies on a political move! These ships offer the Russian Navy no real advantages. Russian fleets are defensive in nature, and sea denial. They are to protect Russian Waters from NATO advances. For this, a strong Naval Air Arm, a strong anti ship Missile force, Hunter Killer Submarines, anti submarine and anti aircraft cruisers, mine warefare vesseks, are a better fit. Russia made a foolish move to please the west and send badly needed money and jobs to feckless France, Medvedev was made a fool of by the West. That billion can build another top of the line nuclear submarine, and make the Russian navy much stronger. France can scrap them and make cans for dog food and vegetables.
Hollande – for quite some time now – I suspected he was just playing the “good cop” in the Ukrainian crisis.
Don’t forget, he’s a “Young Leader” of the ‘French American Fondation’. That’s telling.
And, during the month of July last year he honored Mr Barroso (former head of the European Commission) with a high french distinction. Discreetly, of course! This isn’t something wildely known, but here’s the proof :
Barroso – Grand Officer of the Legion of Honour by Holland
July the 9th, 2014. Yeah, on the height of the OTAN-Russia crisis. With Mr Barroso being well know for only pushing US interests in Europe. That’s also very telling.
The EU is truly an Empire in disguised if you look around. Once in it, you can’t exit. Everything – politics, economics, etc…- are under Brussel’s thumb. It’s very, very hard for a country to have an independent policy. South Stream, Mistral, Bulgaria, etc…
And the people from the EU don’t even benefit from it. This is a Totalitarian Space for the benefit of a small elite!
I posted many messages on Hollande playing the good cop part in the last few months and of course I was called a… Troll.
There is no E.U.
Each former European sovereign nation is 100% controlled by Washington
You’d think any former FSB guy would know that… unless that former FSB guy isn’t truly what he wants us all to believe he is.
charette…you and your many comments are history you fu*** troll you’re a goner…
“…the Russian Navy which will now get 1.1 billion Euros to built exactly the ship it wanted all along! And you can be absolutely sure that the Russians now have the full plans and schematics of every single screw on the Mistrals and the docks which built them and that the ships Russia will build now will be similar…”
Make up your mind Saker; do they want something different or are they building something similar?!
The Russian Mistrals were going to use off-the-shelf component to reduce price, so I doubt there is any tech there that would be of value, the value is in the industrial capacity of the French docks not the end product.
I’m not at all surprised (just disgusted).There was no way that Russia would get the ships.I can’t believe anyone thought they would.Seriously,Russia needs to start understanding how the Empire works. Once you are their enemy and they turn the propaganda against you,there is no going back without a major,major upheaval.If you look up “vindictive” in a dictionary it will say “see the US” highlighted there.Once Cuba escaped their clutches they have spent 56 years and 10 President’s terms punishing them for defying them (and they aren’t through yet).Every action the US government takes is seen through the lens of domestic politics.Their propaganda has now made Putin into a Hitler redux,and Russia into “a nation of slaves” and a people “under his spell”.That is just the way it is in the Empire.There is no “multi-polar”,there is “you are for us or against us”.Almost from the day the US was born,it has seen itself as “destined” to rule North America “from sea to shining sea” in a “manifest destiny”.And along with that to dictate to all countries of the America’s.The Monroe Doctrine (telling any outside country to stay out of Latin America or get war with the US.It was the US’s turf and no one else better interfere) was in force for over a hundred and fifty years and continues in new form today.Now the Empire isn’t satisfied with that and nothing less than global domination will do.You can see it in their policies,in their propaganda (military commercials portraying the US military as a “global force for good,and the US navy as ruling the sea lanes”).The French ships were the tip of the iceberg.As soon as I saw them talked about in the propaganda feed I knew that Russia would never get them.People thinking differently really need to listen to people with experience under Empire propaganda.Their MO is always the same,demonize,degrade,then attack.They can be stopped,it is possible.But not by just refusing to recognize the signs at work.You defeat them by standing up to them.And making counter-moves against them.If they think they have you scared or backing down.Like a shark smelling blood they will be on you.
Looks like Ukraine’s EU membership is officially dead. Also Germany & France are apparently pressuring Kiev to adhere to Minsk:
4/24/15 The European Commissioner for Expansion and Neighbourhood Policy, Johannes Hahn has put an end to a year and a half of Euromaidan propaganda. “In the next 10 years there will be no EU expansion,” – he said at the Third East forum in Berlin.
4/25/15 As reported by Niqnaq: “European diplomats urge Kiev to fulfill the requirements as stipulated in the Minsk agreement on ceasefire in the East of Ukraine, reports the Financial Times. Warnings from Berlin, London and Paris come in the eve of the summit EU-Ukraine. Recent comments by European politicians speak of a strong desire by the EU to improve relations with President Putin, even if it means “to annoy Kiev.”
“German diplomat Stefan Meister said that the representatives of Germany are negotiating with both sides of the conflict, but especially with Kiev, because “if the Ukrainians don’t fulfil the necessary requirements, the Russians will be able to renew the conflict.” Pres François Hollande has also called for “full implementation of the Minsk agreements,” reminds the author. And a representative of British diplomatic circles told the publication that Ukraine needs to implement the agreements “in order not to give Russia room for criticism.”
https://niqnaq.wordpress.com/
Dear Saker
Just prior to the Mistral issue, France was fined $9 billion over some infractions of sanctions on Iran, Sudan and ?Cuba.
An unprecedented whopping amount – duly heisted out of BNP Paribas.
No doubt the hefty fine imposed made it clear that the contract cancellation fee a great deal less than the punishment would cost.
The warships will be sold on to Poland or some other ‘approved’ buyer – and France will recover some costs.
I cannot help but wonder about Je Suis timing too – just when Hollande was making utterances of sanctions should be lifted off Russia.
http://tinyurl.com/q4torgg
Dee, I find it really hard to make sense out of the timing when evidence indicates that at least part of the “attack” was a hoax. That is, the execution of the policeman on the sidewalk was clearly a hoax. The other shootings? Who knows? The investigator on the case was apparently suicided too.
It seems therefore almost certain that elements in France’s own govt must have participated, so it throws into question whether the event was meant to intimidate the govt.
Parts are clearly a hoax:
Liveleak still has an uncensored copy of the video. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bc6_1420632668
There is a black cue line in front of the car at the beginning. When the shooters return to the car a 2nd cue line at right angles to the first has appeared. There are white cue marks by the navy blue car’s tires. There is a black cueline by the van. You have to pause playback frequently to see these details.
-The execution itself is totally nonconvincing, bloodless.
-Video of the print shop shootout taken from on-air has appeared on Youtube. It’s called “Busted! Fake Bullets”. It depicts one of the cops engaged in the shootout as firing his weapon repeatedly at the backs of his fellow-officers, with copious unrealistic white smoke, characteristic of blanks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Res6sCptdY4 Busted! Fake bullets
-When one “culprit” is shot dead at the kosher deli, it looks as if he’s pushed from behind w his hands tied together (no gun) http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article40731.htm Wait for the slow motion.
-police identified them cuz they left an ID in the abandoned car.
These are just a few of the highlights of the phoney aspects of this “incident”
And in mere days, millions of people are on the street with placards ‘Je suis Charlie’ and conveniently 40 politicians linked in solidarity,on a side street,pretending to lead the march.
All very planned and organized, a la….Boris Nemtsov.
Compare all that with 12 prominent deaths in Ukraine in 2 months,’Je suis Oles’ Buzina’?
Like the Boston job, brothers known to the police are not taken alive if possible
Anonymous on April 27, 2015 · at 5:51 am UTC
I absolutely agree Je Suis was a Gladio / Mossy piece of theatre.
What was the motive and cui bono being relevant.
Potential widescale ethnic / race riots? A lot of destabilisation?
A ‘settler’ recruitment drive by that Sayeret Matkal trained assassin leader?
(who Hollande asked not to attend, but who turned up anyway .. was put in the back row of the street theatre parade but pushed his way to the very front …. then after a dinner that Hollande walked out on – addressed a Synagogue congregation with impassioned invitation to go be eternal colonising soldiers for the Homeland … the congregants responded by singing La Marseillaise …while Bibi stood beaming like Napoleon just crowned Emperor of France :) )
However – the massive fine imposed on France for breaking sanctions surely does have some baring on the Misrtal matter.
Dee, you said, “I absolutely agree Je Suis was a Gladio / Mossy piece of theatre.
What was the motive and cui bono being relevant.”
I always think in questioning the motive, “What happened as a result?”
In this case, there was a dramatic attack on free speech. Truly mind-boggling, since the whole “Je suis Charlie” meme was in defense of free speech. Also, like in Boston, people were acclimated to seeing military performing police functions. And I think all of these incidents– the real ones and the hoaxes– are what Webster Tarpley calls “a strategy of tension”. People who are periodically frightened are apt to see even a rights-trampling govt as their protector.
Btw, Webster Tarpley has an excellent online book about false flags generally & 9/11 in particular. It’s called Synthetic Terror.
Regards
Penelope…if I didn’t already have so many books I would get that one…I read his book on Bush senior…great book
Ann, You don’t have to buy “Synthetic Terror”. The first edition of it is free, online. I found valuable Webster’s descriptions of the parts/members of a false flag, discussion of how it’s set up, etc.
Regards
Great news out of Saudi Arabia re Yemen ground attack: In anticipation of the order to invade Yemen, the whole Saudi army went AWOL! The story is by Finian Cunningham on Strategic Culture, so s/b reliable. It is sourced to Fars News Agency (Iranian state media) I had heard some time ago that the ground forces were mostly Yemeni nationals, but don’t know if this is true.
Story: http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2015/04/26/thousands-of-saudi-forces-flee-bases.html
Excerpt: ” Almost 4,000 Saudi forces fled their border bases in anticipation of Riyadh’s order for launching a ground assault on Yemen, European diplomatic sources said on Sunday.
“The intel gathered by the western intelligence agencies showed that the Saudi military forces have fled their bases, military centers and bordering checkpoints near Yemen in groups,” diplomatic sources were quoted as saying by Iraq’s Arabic-language Nahrain Net news website.
The European sources said that the Saudi forces’ mass AWOL forced Riyadh to declare ceasefire and dissuaded it from launching ground attacks against Yemen.
Other reports also said that over 10,000 soldiers from different Saudi military units have fled the army battalions and the National Guard.
Experts believe that the Saudi army lacks strong morale to launch a ground invasion of Yemen and such an attack would be considered as a suicide for Saudi Arabia.’
Penelope !!! You are the greatest of all commenters !! that’s hysterical…did it say why they went AWOL ?
Ann, They went AWOL in anticipation of the order to begin the ground attack. You know how the the press has been telling the world that Saudis wd soon put boots on the ground? Well, the boots didn’t like the idea, chose to run the other way.
Just like ComfortingThought above – yeah, right, they all ran away:
“…I even heard a version that claimed the U.S service men on board the vessel resigned their commissions in utter disgust at the humiliation the unarmed Su-24 had dealt their warship. Anyone who has served in the U.S military since the 9/11 knows it’s silly to assume it’s some kind of democratic entity where soldiers get to vote and resign because they’re disgusted. It might be a Slavic frame of mind or concept to sacrifice a paycheck for intangible words like honor and embarrassment, but it is laughable to project that unto the American psyche. Those soldiers will wade through neck deep blood to keep the comforts their families enjoy from the military industrial complex. And after the carnage they’ve wrecked the world over, only the naive could buy into such a childish fairytale.”
Saudi army collapsing?
Just like the coward English army of 325,000 fled Dunkirk with full knowledge that Hitler had secretly agreed with evil chuchill to let the fleeing English pass back to their cold wet dampy miserable England.
This story looks a bit better on that,.
This falls in line with what is generally known of the Saudi military, and the wider Saudi society. There’s zero support for the regime in the rank and file of either of them.
Nasrallah hit it when he said this could be the end of the House of Saud. Their Yemen adventure will expose their flaccid privates to all. Pretenders to a phony throne, the luckiest will buiy their way to their hideouts in Paris, London, NY while the less lucky will serve as patsies for the real perpetrators of 9/11.
That’s why 14 nations voted to block Houthi supplies. A power vacuum in Saudi Arabia will create uncertainty beyond imagination. Nobody likes the House of Saud (well, maybe the Israelis) but likewise nobody wants the absolute chaos in the world’s #1/2 energy supplier that would follow the Saud regime’s collapse. Not even Russia.
I had sent an obscure news item to Fort Russ about a month ago which stated the Mistrals would be sold to “a Baltic state” instead of Russia and asked for comment. I guess that won’t be necessary now.
How would these two ships do in the Baltic i wonder? I’m guessing the French will have to make a sweet deal (with more money of the French taxpayer) to make such a sweet deal possible.
Medvedev doesn’t get the full import of “Western integration” as it pertains to the CIS: not as an equal but as a piggy bank for a debt-based monetary (slave) system that needs to be constantly expanding or it will suffer a catastrophic deflationary crash followed by hyperinflation. Compounding interest guarantees there will otherwise not be enough money to meet ever-expanding interest payments.
Tom, The Baltic is an inland sea & there must be a lot of ice in winter, maybe not suitable for these ships. I think there’s a group of southern countries also called “the Baltics”, tho not on the Baltic sea.
Close. Balkans, not Baltics. Think former Yugoslavia.
Strictly speaking the Baltic is not an inland sea, but connects to the North Sea and Atlantic Ocean via the straits of Oresund. Due to its lower salinity and high latitude the sea however does freeze, and many countries set up ice-roads during mid-late winter so that you can drive your car to offshore islands. In fact many famous battles have occurred when countries like Russia or Sweden marched their armies over the sea ice to invade an opposing country (March across the Belts 1658, Attack on Umeå 1809, and so on).
The Baltics specifically refer to Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania which lie to the east of the Baltic Sea.
Sorry about the correction, but its important to clarify this rather important geographical information.
Terry & Aristides: Thank you, I have been trying to figure out forever why there were two groups of countries called the Baltics. NOW I get it: One is Baltics & the other Balkans. Glad you cleared that up for me.
One Billion is big money to you and I, but chicken feed to nations. Or even large companies. For instance, Apple or Google make that much in a week.
However, Russia is better off without the Mistrals. They serve no useful military purpose for a country without an overseas empire to control. They did have a potential emergency use purpose in the event of an earthquake or severe storm causing major damage and casualties on the outlying Pacific islands such as the Kurils, Kamchatka (not technically an island) and Sakhalin where they could act as rescue and hospital ships. They could also serve the same purpose for international goodwill assisting other countries struck by disasters. I doubt Russia will build their own versions as they just don’t need them now that Crimea is back in the fold. An unsinkable aircraft carrier in the middle of the Black Sea.
Could you mean “the Balkans”?
Tom…Saker said Medvedev is a Gazprom man….money in his pocket … “that’s all folks'”
Those Mistrals were probably brimming with NSA and CIA spy devices, so not having them in Russian hands is probably a good thing.
Maybe Russia were going to let them set in port, take them apart and reverse-engineer a ship to their own liking?
Now they can be given to that SLC, Israel and be used to inflict misery on the native Palestinians.
In contrast to some people on this forum, I like to express my concern about banning posters for ‘trolling’. Whilst this website belongs to The Saker and it is his to do with as he will – until he specifically decides otherwise – this remains a publicly accessible place for the exchange of ideas, thoughts and ideologies. That is the _entire_ purpose of a forum.
If we begin to ban people who vigorously defend their beliefs, de-facto censoring their voice, we become no better than what many of us have criticised Western Media for. Yes its annoying when someone comes here and disrupts our discussions with a dissenting view. Yes it is aggravating when they act in a rude and abusive manner. But you never improve the situation by flinging mud back or requesting they be shut up.
I believe, perhaps fallaciously, that the majority of posters here are well educated folks seeking other viewpoints and news sources, so that we can try to understand the current state of world geopolitics. Most of us seem to be respectful, insightful and open-minded, leading to creative debate rather than destructive criticism. It is better to respond to trolling by the polite presentation of counter-evidence and a welcoming nature than closing our minds. We should lead by example.
Take a page from Sergey Lavrov and always be open to discussion, no matter the idiocy or abuse. Banning is a slippery slope which eventually results in an in-bred crowd, dangerously cut off from other perspectives or any hope of opening the minds of others.
/moderation-policy/ This is the moderation policy we follow. It’s in the first person from when Saker did it on his own. We never censor on basis of beliefs, but do expect them to be expressed with reasoning and some sources for claimed facts, not in the form of mocking the others. Big big difference between “I disagree because…” and “haha you idiots to believe that….”.
You have to realize “Aristides” that troller are not there to exchange ideas. Their function is to prevent the sharing of bone fide ideas and analyses.
Personally, when I identify a troll, I skip to the next set of comments or, if the trolls are not controlled, I simply leave the site. This is their goal. They succeed to the extent that someone does not stop them from polluting the pound.
As the saying goes: There was a pool of rose water. A dog felt in, polluting it.
Comment to moderators: Thank you for your vigilance and your contribution in trying to keep the pool free of pollution.
in the absence of a report flag, if you wish to draw special attention to something, reply to it but mark your reply ATTENTION MODERATOR (on a separate line) and give your reasons. We only see single posts, not the context.
euro is fake money, of course they are paying…
Dear The Saker,
Was this sabotage? – close to Belarus/Ukraine border:
http://rt.com/business/253309-russia-europe-oil-supply/
The timing just seems a bit suspect…..
Rgds,
Veritas
“… these ships were purchased first and foremost as part of the strategy Medvedev and his Atlantic Integrationists to forge stronger political, economic, technological and military ties with the West …”
Right!
Incidentally, Medvedev is still the clerk-in-chief of Russia. Till when?
Johan….when Medvedev will be gone is when the Eurasian Sovereignists overcome the 50 – 50 balance with the Atlantic Integrationists…Saker’s covered it innumerable times… Medvedev was part of the picture when Putin was given the presidency….
They won’t deliver the boats
They will not deliver the money
or only a mere fraction of it
“Putinland is supporting ” terror” in Novorussia”
“So Putinland gets sanctions”
Including the boat money – no refund
few days ago
“France is ready to support Ukraine in the fight against organized crime and in the strengthening of domestic security, says a joint declaration signed in Paris on Apr.22 by presidents Francois Hollande and Petro Poroshenko, TASS reported.
“The presidents of the two countries welcomed France’s consent to train Ukrainian sappers to defuse self-made explosive devices,” the document says.”
Staying neutral-fearing the situation will deteriorate? Realising civilians need protecting from SBU,or right sector -incl partisans-?
Or protecting Poro and right sector?
Slightly off topic,or miles off actually.but I have been reading the tin-foil-hat brigade/preppers version of the upcoming Jade Helm operation.
[MOD: sorry, too far off, this is way into reptilian masters territory… This blog is about real world geopolitics, not someone’s prophetic dream in which ISIS is run by China. ]
T/F hat off.
XbNB
Fair enough,just an alt view,not my own
I’m glad saker picked you to do the moderation. You go about your business in a very intelligent and non personal manner, and I respect you for that. My counter to your post about the Su-24 was meant to assist and guard you from precisely this sort of prepper/ reptilian crackpot fantasies. It’s the same crowd that bought up all the guns in the ’90’s before the Oklahoma City false flag. This is who populate VT and I’m glad you are prudent enough to have taken my comment as it was meant, without malice. Thanks.
Thank you, also on behalf of the other mods. We all need to see some disinformation to be able to recognise it. But some are too far out.
But XbNB is a regular poster ????
XbNB… I would have liked to read that….too much control on this one I think…
http://exiledonline.com/the-war-nerd-this-is-how-the-carriers-will-die/
Fyi and amusement.
Here’s my take on the Mistral Affair from a few months back:
http://journal-neo.org/2014/11/20/the-mistral-affair-breach-of-contract-or-hostile-act/
Basically, I do not believe that the French will pay back the money either.
Its also difficult for us to follow whether putin is going to deliver the S 300 missile system to Iran and Syria. It changes from one week to the next
Militarily speaking, Russia alone already scares the hell out of NATO. Add China’s military to the Russian forces and NATO is helpless. Even with NATO, the US is now in check and they know it.
Russia is not a nomadic third-world country like the US is use to bullying.
Will that $1.1 billion be deposited in an account that is subject to USA sanctions?
I will believe Russia gets the money back when Russia actually does get the money. The French (or anybody else who is a client of USA) cannot be trusted.
It will be fun to see how the French set about trying to dispose of those two white elephants. Maybe the Americans would like to buy them to add to their already huge collection of enormous lumbering naval targets.
In my opinion the non-delivery of the vessels to Russia may mean something more dangerous than simply following Yankees orders: it may be an indication that really the Yankees and their vassals (France, Canada, UK, etc.) actually has the war against Russia as a real possibility, and would not be appropriate arm the enemy.
I also imagine if were not discovered some secrets about Russian technology and weaponry in this whole process. I remember the “disapear” of computers on one of the ships …
AFAIK there was little if any Russian technology on the ship to steal or copy. Everything was to be added once they were safely in Russia. The ‘theft’ was of data on the ship’s navigational computer, it could have been commercial espionage, no-one know
Saker ..
I follow your website and your thoughts regularly and whereas I agree with much of what you say and learn from most of the rest I would like to add an overview, greatly simplified on purpose however.
The following……Russia in a general sense has been a fair weather friend and harsh landlord to many of her neighbors historically . Because of a rather naive attitude regarding the West she has made subsequent bad turns and misjudgments. A lot of this is evidenced even in Putin’s actions and he is generally the more realistic end of the spectrum I speak of here.
The Mistral buyback is typical as is the S-300 deal and the .The Yemen and Libyan abstentions can make anyone wonder…It does not take a genius to figure out the West plays…’two for me …one for you’…. at every turn.. The rhetoric about playing chess does not change the results of these dealings.
I do agree up to this point with you in regards to the Ukrainian gambit ..
regards
g………..
I will give credit to Hollande for one thing: if he would have tried not to pay back Russia and Russia would have been forced to go to court for many years, he would have damaged France’s reputation even further. But still, the loss is a huge one for France. I also feel sorry for the folks who built these superb ships and who will not see them sail under Russian flag because setting aside all the economic and military arguments against the purchase of the Mistrals, it would have been quite a sight to see them with Ka-52s on their deck.
Yup. The mighty ones do everything that people don’t come together. The old story always new: divide & rule. The populations of the EU & the USA are paying a high price.
I’d like to recall the fact that after 9/11 there was for a short time the axis Moscow-Berlin-Paris unanimously opposing the Iraq war.
It seems to me that it is Putin himself who decided not to accept the Mistrals any more during his annual interview with all the country.
Because of the delay in delivery? Sort of ‘keep your rotten tomatoes’?
Saker, how do you figure Russia pretty much owns the Black Sea? I wish it were so but I see hostile & NATO countries on it’s shores, as well as Crimea, Russia.
Sometimes, I think you’re too sanguine in your assessments and outlook. Hope I’m way wrong.
That’s great if the Russian naval hierarchy didn’t want these ships, anyway. It’s a pitiful sign, though, that France didn’t have the backbone to honor the contract and that they’ll get an even bigger contract from Poland (which I don’t doubt was organized by the US). It just shows how bad it is in Europe and how so many countries are completely Uncle Sam’s bitchez, still.
Maybe the French need to remember why they built “Pont Alexandre III”?
As a veteran of the US Navy I was always scratching my head over the Mistral purchases. Capital ships like these only make sense if Russia was going to act like the US and attack third rate nations close to the sea and far from land based forms of power projection.
Totally useless against any modern navy and a sitting duck for any modern sub or air-launched antiship missile. Better to take the money back and build a whole bunch of smaller but highly capable long and short range missile launch platforms.
The Mistrals aren’t large ships, only 15,000T. And the Black Sea isn’t “open seas” with 100,000T US aircraft carriers lurking over the horizon. Most large warships can’t access the Black Sea. But you’re right – the Russian military likely has a better plan in the works.
I think I’ve read somewhere that the keels of both Mistrals were built in Russia and delivered to France to build the rest of the ships. This means Russians still own those bits of the Mistrals.
I wonder what would happen if the Russians asked for them to be returned…?
I posted this opinion on RT too. The French are not going to pat the €1.1 billion, the American tax payer is. All the hee hawing by the French was used to conclude negotiations with the DOD.
I doubt that France is paying anything. Somehow the bill is probably being paid by Uncle Sucker and the US taxpayers.
Alternative Working Headline: “Expanding Upon Tradition, French Surrender Military Ship BEFORE Manufacturing It”
Russia most probably doe snot need those. Good riddance. They are power projection tools, Russia is in anti access denial business. Good that not only money ain’t wasted but some interest is comingg as well.
Well at least they are paying, unlike a few others that consume without payment and then go forward blackmailing you.