by Alexander Mercouris
It seems the German intelligence agency the BND has provided a Bundestag committee with a report that once again attributes the MH17 shoot down to the NAF.
The report has not been published but for me the single most interesting thing in it is that it apparently finally demolishes the theory that MH17 was shot down by a BUK system secretly transferred to the NAF by the Russians. We are back it seems to the theory that the NAF shot down MH17 with a BUK missile system it captured from the Ukrainians.
There are a number of points to make here:
1. At the time when MH17 was shot down the western media were in full flood that the Russians were responsible. All sorts of stories circulated about how a BUK missile system was supposedly secretly smuggled by Russia across the border and supplied to the NAF, which the NAF then used to shoot MH17 down. These stories played a key role in influencing western public opinion against Russia. The Germans forced other EU states to impose sectoral sanctions on Russia on the grounds it was responsible for the tragedy because it was arming the NAF. The stories of a BUK missile system being secretly smuggled back and forth across the border (and films supposedly culled from social media supposedly showing it doing just that) undoubtedly played a part in giving credence to these claims. The BND has now admitted that the Russians were not involved in the shooting down of MH17 and that MH17 was not shot down by a BUK missile system smuggled by the Russians across the border. It turns out therefore that all those stores that gained so much attention and which did Russia’s image so much harm were untrue. I wonder whether sectoral sanctions would have been imposed on Russia if it had been known then that those stories were untrue.
2. By saying that MH17 was shot down by the NAF using a captured BUK missile system, the BND is contradicting what the junta said at the time and is still saying. The junta still denies that any of its BUK systems have been captured by the NAF. By contrast the BND now admits that what the Russians were saying in July – that they did not transfer a BUK system to the NAF and that they were not involved in the shooting down of MH17 – was true.
3. The BND has also apparently admitted that the “evidence” the junta produced supposedly culled from social media was fabricated or falsified. This is important because it is the first western admission of the fact that the junta has lied. Up to now no western government or agency has ever called into question anything the junta has ever said. Of course if the junta falsified or fabricated evidence about MH17 it might have done so about other matters (eg. the Kiev snipers or the Odessa fire).
4. There were some reports before the MH17 tragedy that the NAF had indeed captured a BUK missile system. It is difficult to say how credible those reports were. As I have previously said, given that the capture of such a system would have been a considerable coup, one might have expected the NAF to make more of the fact by publishing photographs of the BUK system they had captured. That however never happened. Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence but I would still like to see some convincing evidence that the NAF really did have a BUK missile system in its possession (and a crew able to operate it) before I accepted the fact. Uncorroborated claims denied then and since by the Ukrainians and made in the midst of an armed conflict when all sorts of exaggerated claims are made are not sufficient evidence and do not prove anything. In the absence of such evidence all I can do is note (1) that the NAF continues to deny that it had or was operating a BUK system when MH17 was shot down and (2) that no evidence exists or has been made public which refutes that denial. .
5. The media reports about the BND report say that the BND has shown such evidence to the Bundestag committee and that supposedly it includes satellite imagery. The evidence has not however been made public and again one has to ask why? It is scarcely believable that there is something so secret about the way this evidence was collected that prevents it from being made public. The Russians and the Chinese certainly know everything there is to know about how the western powers collect imagery and other intelligence from their satellites. It is not as if publishing this evidence is therefore going to compromise any intelligence source or capability. Why then the secrecy especially over an issue of such importance? Whether the western powers want to admit to the fact or not, their refusal to make their evidence public casts doubt on how much weight this evidence really has.
6. In the absence of publication of this evidence (which would allow it to be properly examined and tested) it remains impossible to accept any claims based on it. There have just been too many cases of western intelligence agencies assuring us on the basis of “evidence” kept secret of the truth of things that turned out to be false. Recent examples include the false claims made by all western intelligence agencies including the BND about Saddam Hussein’s non-existent weapons of mass destruction, the wrong claims of massive Russian slush funds hidden away in Cyprus, which actually originated with the BND, and the denials last year made by all western intelligence agencies including the BND that the Syrian rebels have used sarin gas, which a UN report has since admitted they almost certainly have.
7. There is one point about MH17 I do however wish to make.
On balance and despite the fact that the body of one of the passengers was found wearing an oxygen mask, I still think the most likely explanation for the tragedy is that MH17 was shot down by a BUK missile. I realise others (eg, Petri Kohn) disagree. I am not technically qualified to decide the question.
I am however concerned that some people are trying to reduce this issue to a false binary of SU25=junta versus BUK=NAF. That is precisely what the BBC for example sought to do in a recent Panorama programme.
The attraction of insisting that MH17 was shot down by a SU25 is that in that case only the junta could have done it since no one says the NAF had an operational SU25 capable of shooting MH17 down. The danger of insisting that MH17 was shot down by an SU25 is that if it does turn out that MH17 was in fact actually shot down by a BUK missile, then some in the west will treat that as proof that it was the NAF that shot it down.
It is nothing of the sort. It cannot be said too strongly that as of now there is no proof that at the time when MH17 was shot down the NAF was in possession of either an operational SU25 aircraft or an operational BUK system, whereas there is conclusive proof that the junta was in possession of both. Until the BND or some other western intelligence makes evidence public that proves the contrary that remains the position.
I would like to know why Russia hasn’t shown its evidence about what happened to MH17.
Yes, I know that they presented a very quiet conference on the matter, covered here by The Saker.
I’d also like to know why Russia doesn’t reveal all that it knows about 9/11. Imagine what difficulties 9/11 truth could cause for the Atlanticists…
davidius
Evidence? The newspapers don’t need prove. They only need a hint and then they are going to blame Putin again.
I’m puzzled. Watching You Tube you can easily see that a Buk (SA-11)then it is lunched, gives a very distinct smoke trail. And nobody seem to have seen the smoke trail.
I’m writing from Sweden. They are looking for a sub. Russian they say. They won’t find any. The army wants more money. An old trick.
They had a picture of a man that they thought was sptznak. It turned out to be a man fishing trout.
An editorial in the largest newspaper accuse Putin for being a fascist. They are really low.
More on the ‘Ebola’ Plannedemic:
truth finally leaking out, because of the TIME elapsed since they first floated this pig, & because their desperate efforts haven’t made it stick anywhere (except locally in those mainly 3 west african countries, but no photo of any victim anywhere so far has shown the classic ebola symptoms, a clear UNpossibility in this age of ubiquitous cellphones)
US Bio-warfare Laboratories In West Africa Are The Origins Of The Ebola Epidemic.
By Aggeliki Dimopoulou
Could Ebola Have Escaped From US Bio-warfare Labs? American law professor Francis A. Boyle, answers questions for tvxs.gr and reveals that USA have been using West Africa as an offshore to circumvent the Convention on Biological Weapons and do bio-warfare work.
Is Ebola just a result of health crisis in Africa – because of the large gaps in personnel, equipment and medicines – as some experts suggest?
That isn’t true at all. This is just propaganda being put out by everyone. It seems to me, that what we are dealing with here is a biological warfare work that was conducted at the bio-warfare laboratories set up by the USA on the west coast of Africa. And if you look at a map produced by the Center of Disease Control you can see where these laboratories are located. And they are across the heart of Ebola epidemic, at the west coast of Africa. So, I think these laboratories, one or more of them, are the origins of the Ebola epidemic.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article40012.htm
Several very credible military sources have stated that there is evidence in the high def photography that bullet holes abound in the cockpit area.
Do BUK’s fire bullets? Not that anyone knows.
The mask one passenger. Where’ the photo of the body? Did any recovery volunteers see the mask on a body? If one mask was down and on a person, other masks would be out, exposed, perhaps still hanging from the overhead. We saw none of that.
Bloodless corpses. We have multiples of those.
Expert analysis of what might have happened, we have from the Russians.
We have seen no satellite imagery. No radar imagery. and we have heard no voice between tower and plane.
So, the Ukies have covered up the incident from beginning to end. The Ukies have tried for months to blast the evidence at the sites of the crash for months. The Ukies bombarded the experts going through Donetsk.
The Dutch are covering up. The Germans are lying. The Australians are making empty accusations.
The Americans are stone-silent.
All because the militia did it?
Common sense says the Ukies did it.
The have all the credentials for the crime. They are the stupidest assholes on the face of the earth. They are incompetent military people. They are murderous political people. And they will do anything for American dollars.
They would have shot down a Ukie airliner if told to do it.
The facts of the existing evidence on the ground from rational experts who know what air-to-air missiles and bullets do to planes, how planes break apart and fall, what blood in the cockpit means, how BUK’s work, and how all the OSCE and International Aviation folks are deaf, dumb and blind but agree the militia and the 800 volunteers who identified each corpse location across 15 sq. kilometers of Novorossiya did an honorable job.
And why have no team gone and finalized the site, reconstructed the airplane or used Russian help just 50 kilometers away to get a professional forensic investigation done?
The West did it. Paid for it. And everyone with a scintilla of common sense knows it.
Put up or shut up. You got satellite photos, radar and voice, put up or shut up.
We have the experts, the photos and we know the big lie when we see it, hear it and it keeps changing its tone.
Next, we’ll hear that the pregnant lady raped and strangled in Odessa fire in the Trade Union building was into kinky sex and self-immolation.
And the Militia has that in its operational handbook as steps 1 and 2 for battle plans.
still no release of the Kiev air control tower recordings. So, I call bullshit.
Do you believe that the only evidence produced so far, the Russian evidence of a fighter plane tracking the MH-17, was forged?
Why are you not impressed by the analysis of the MH-17 shootdown by the Russian Union of Engineers? I’m not an engineer, so I can certainly believe that it has faults I missed, but has it been debunked anywhere?
I wish people would stop saying “Where’s the proof?” and substitute “Where’s the evidence?” They are not the same thing, and it is much stronger to say there is “no evidence” (when that is the case). It is also valid to say that when there is “evidence” that has already been disproved (not just challenged) or laughed out of court.
I find it easy to believe that the resistance had a BUK and the argument that they would crow about it is nonsense. It would be their topmost military secret. It’s a dream scenario that the enemy thinks he’s outside your range and he really is not due to acquisitions he doesn’t suspect.
The resistance has been hunting materiel in every repair depot they know about, and if there are lots of BUKs in Ukraine they might well have found an inoperable one, as was claimed. It is unthinkable to me that if they managed to get it operational they would blab it.
What is decisive to me is the behaviour of the parties afterwards. The US has a launch-detecting satellite in stationary orbit above Ukraine. I agree with the Saker that the conventional excuses for withholding evidence do not apply. The US has pictures and there is only one reason it will not display them.
This is a good analysis of where the the German Intelligence Report takes us.
Very interesting that it has fallen to this branch of Western Intelligence to shape the narrative. It is obvious that details challenging the attempted false flag narrative (i.e. Russia was to blame) have started leaking out and that eventually more evidence will surface at variance with the attempt to blame Russia.
I see this report as an attempt at damage limitation to the credibility of those who ‘blamed Putin’ immediately the disaster happened. Some slow learners apparently still want to ‘shirt front’ President Putin.
So US intelligence doesn’t have to eat its words or front up with the evidence they claimed they had.
So we have a shift in the narrative (acceptable so the nasty ‘terrorists’ can still be blamed), in preparation for more revelations yet to come .
Damage limitation and controlling the new narrative!
The day before the MH17 shootdown the Junta was making claims that it’s AN-26 shot down (at high altitude – beyond MANPAD – 26kft IIRC) – was shot down by a russian fighter jet – this claim makes it entire feasible that the junta would deploy AA (such as buk) to counter the supposed russian fighter jet thread.
As opposed to the various russian claims, this claim by the junta prior to the MH17 shootdown, provides a credible suspicion to possible activiation of SAM units. And as we know – the ukranian SAM units are inept (e.g. shootdown of passenger jet over black sea a few years ago) in normal times – and all the more so during the junta era.
I’ve followed the MH17 story in detail from about 3 hours after it happened.
The BND report contains no new information. It is yet another re-assessment of known and guessed data, all of which has been used in various combinations to support all the other theories. In every case the theories have been political, ie aimed at blaming one party or another for political reasons. This report is no different.
The political aim of this report seems to be to back-pedal from the “Russia did it” hypothesis, to open the way for sanctions against Russia to be reduced, without too much loss of face. There’s no new-found love for Russia involved, it’s just the huge hurt the sanctions are putting on the German economy, which already very close to full recession.
WHO HAD WHAT:
BUK — NAF was publicly reported as having a BUK on June 26.Their PR machinery was not as well developed then as it is now, so they had no photos of it — as the don’t of many other valuable equipment captures even today. No pictures is not proof they didn’t have one. Naturally after being accused of using it to commit mass murder, they’re wise to deny having had one. The junta is denying NAF had an operational one (a) the unit which gave up that BUK would have sworn they disabled it before abandoning their post and (b) Kiev needs it to be so, so that Russian help MUST be implicated, otherwise they can’t blame Russia.
NAF commander Bezler has recently claimed junta had a BUK unit stationed only 60 km north of the crash site. Photographic evidence of this will emerge in due course, but of course will not be proof of having been used against MH17.
SU-25 — This is a Russian idea “proven” by some weak radar images, in an attempt to place blame on Kiev, in retaliation for Russia being accused. They can’t prove the negative that it wasn’t them, so proving it was someone else is their only defence. The background to this is numerous (pre-MH17) statements by Donbass residents, including in videos, that the junta “regularly” hid their planes behind civilian jets, to discourage the rebels from shooting at them for fear of hitting the jetliner by mistake.
When it was shown in social media that SU’s can’t reach that altitude, the figures for their operating ceiling were suddenly raised to high enough in every version of Wikipedia (since reverted). Everyone missed the news that 3 weeks before MH17, Ukraine had placed two MIG-20s back into service, and these have the necessary ceiling and range of missiles.
Alexander’s point is a valid one
“..I am however concerned that some people are trying to reduce this issue to a false binary of SU25=junta versus BUK=NAF…”
People who are looking at it from a cui bono point of view do believe it was the junta….the subsequent behaviour of which does not show them horrified by the idea of killing innocent civilians. To find it was shot down by an SU-25 would be clear-cut proof, but this is wishful thinking. Even if fired from a aircraft, it WAS A MISSILE — the damage says so, and multiple witnesses said so — they heard the explosion.
So it’s back to the analysis of the “high energy objects” found in the bodies of the pilots and one passenger. Will these show what type of missile they came from? will the non-disclosure agreements allow this to ever be made public? if it turns out to be a BUK, who and how will discover which BUK? back to square one.
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/10/20/germans-clear-russia-in-mh-17-case/
A source who was briefed by U.S. intelligence analysts told me that some analysts had concluded that the rebels and Russia were likely not at fault and that it appeared Ukrainian government forces were to blame, although possibly a unit operating outside the direct command of Ukraine’s top officials.
The source specifically said the U.S. intelligence evidence did not implicate Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko or Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk but rather suggested an extremist element of the armed forces funded by one of Ukraine’s oligarchs.
Kolomoisky???
I realise they like to call themselves BND to obfuscate and that many fall into the trap by referring to them as “German”.
I suggest the content of the “information” proferred is of minor significance at this point in the process; the major significances lie in the whys of timing and coordination.
As to the content perhaps a reminder of Pinocchio’s nose might be appropriate.
Let the opponents embroider – the more embroidery, the more opportunity to unpick.
I disagree with the idea of the plane shot down by a Buk. The numerous 3 cm holes, both entrance and exit, in the left cockpit panel from below the side windows, to me says the airframe was shot down by another aircraft. It is known that there were two orc SU25 very close to the plane and the SU25 can, indeed, operate at the height of the plane for short times.
Novorossiya did, to the best of my knowledge, capture one missile launcher but it is unknown if the unit was serviceable and even if it was, there are 5 other vehicles that make up the entire system. It is physically impossible for the captured launcher to acquire and negate a target flying at the height of MH17.
here a link how this “news” was launched:
http://hinter-der-fichte.blogspot.jp/
(sorry in German only)
here a link how this “news” was launched:
http://hinter-der-fichte.blogspot.jp/
(sorry in German only)
here a link how this “news” was launched:
http://hinter-der-fichte.blogspot.jp/
(sorry in German only)
here a link how this “news” was launched:
http://hinter-der-fichte.blogspot.jp/
(sorry in German only)
On point 7, you have more than a point. The SU-25 was used in the manipulation to encourage the shoot down. For a single telar it would seem like a large military transport/bomber being escorted by fighter jets. Question is did Ukies fire at the plane and leave a trojan horse near the front line for the NAF to pick up or did NAF have legitimate reasons to target and down an aircraft that would have been seen by the telar as a transport or bomber on another white phosphorus raid? Was Strelkov’s twitter account hacked like Medvedev’s at the right time?
On point 7, you have more than a point. The SU-25 was used in the manipulation to encourage the shoot down. For a single telar it would seem like a large military transport/bomber being escorted by fighter jets. Question is did Ukies fire at the plane and leave a trojan horse near the front line for the NAF to pick up or did NAF have legitimate reasons to target and down an aircraft that would have been seen by the telar as a transport or bomber on another white phosphorus raid? Was Strelkov’s twitter account hacked like Medvedev’s at the right time?
For political reasons, the BND cannot blame the Junta.
Blaming Russia would be politically costly, at a time when Germany is trying to turn down the heat.
Therefore, the NAF makes the most convenient scapegoat. But because so far it doesn’t look like the evidence is there, the report in essence says “you’ll have to trust us.”
[from Blue]
It’s impossible to accept anything the US, NATO, etc., say as ‘evidence’ since they regularly lie and make stuff up.
Then there is story as reported, vs what the BND actually, said, vs what it actually thinks it knows, vs what it actually knows, and so forth — none of which can be assumed to be accurate or the same things.
Just look at the article in Spiegel:
“Unambiguous Findings
Evidence obtained shortly after the accident suggested the aircraft had been shot down by pro-Russian militants.”
Unambiguous … suggests! Talk about oxymorons — any sort of morons, who think suggestions are unambiguous. It’s poppycock. It’s not ‘evidence’. Now spiegel says ‘unambiguous evidence’ says something, but what it then says is that photos were manipulated, and that says nothing about actual events — just the propaganda. The story is useless — it’s proves nothing at all. Just that someone said someone said someone said…
Give that 4 instantiations when you see Parry’s story.
Still no serious or credible investigation — or investigators.
Nope. I’m not excited at all over this.
__Blue
The BND has no ‘credibility’ ,and the only political fact derivable from this story is that the German government is increasingly turning its back to Russia.
@ Anonymous who said “..A source who was briefed by U.S. intelligence analysts told me that some analysts had concluded that the rebels and Russia were likely not at fault and that it appeared Ukrainian government forces were to blame, although possibly a unit operating outside the direct command of Ukraine’s top officials…”
You are quoting an article by Robert Parry. He always has some nameless secret intelligence source in his stories. The last one he had alleged the US had images of “the” BUK with soldiers in UKRAINIAN UNIFORM and beer bottles lying around. Must be pretty accurate high-res satellite to pick the uniform (in a war where everybody wears whatever they can get, the official Army included).
The one consistency here is, this latest secret informant is also blaming (some) Ukrainians. In each case, you will note, the “intelligence briefings” are also full of “possibles” and “maybes” and “likelies”. So they are just the GUESSES of these mystery invisible people. Take Parry’s stuff with a big spoon of salt.
If it was deliberate, there was only one aim — to make the shooters hated. The rebels were hated terrorists already. The best victim would be Russia, in order to get MORE HELP FIGHTING THEM. No oligarch personally had much to gain by NATO involvement against Russia.
That old shootdown in 2001 was a genuine accident — on a training exercise they missed the practice target,the missile kept going, eventually homed onto the passenger plane more than 20 miles away (ie almost out of range).
If this time was deliberate, then the Malaysian plane was directly targetted – it was the only one in the area with a substantially European passenger list (creating local outrage) but a safely distant country of origin (creating no military response).
= = = = = = = = = = = = = =
@ lepxii said…
“.. The day before the MH17 shootdown the Junta was making claims that it’s AN-26 shot down (at high altitude – beyond MANPAD – 26kft IIRC) – was shot down by a russian fighter jet…”
The pilots didn’t say Russian jet. That is an assumption somewhere along the line. They said the thought “air to air missile” meaning NOT A MANPAD (ie bigger missile and they were too high for a MANPAD to reach). That I believe was actually the BUK held by the rebels…which after MH17 they obviously had to deny having.
But if Kiev feared it WAS A Russian jet, then they’d fire up some BUKs of their own, right? and practice the radar location and get the wrong thing? Maybe. Maybe. But they’d have the full 5-unit set-up and NOT make such a mistake. Maybe. Unless they fired on purpose because it didn’t answer the IFF, ie didn’t have “friend” identification…..as of course no commercial plane would. So maybe still an accident.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = =
@Anonymous with “..Was Strelkov’s twitter account hacked like Medvedev’s at the right time?..”
No, it was his account. The boast was accompanied by images of the AN-26 being shot down, so that’s what it would have referred to. Sensible to wipe it, as soon as it became obvious everyone was thinking it was about MH17.
There, you see, people. Anything can be turned to prove anything. It’s called confirmation bias….if what you see “matches” what you already believe, other equally possible explanations won’t even occur to you.
Dear Alexander,
It seems to me that German intelligence are releasing that Russia had nothing to do with MH17 only but still refraining from the truth as who shot it down and how because it would expose their allies etc. whom they have supported.
All the sanctions after MH17 were therfore done falsely and it is a get out for German business and other EU countries who are suffering.
However, I don’t expect any apologies :(…..esp. from the shirt fronting idiot who calls himself the Prime Minister of Australia!
Regards,
Veritas
Anonymous said…@ 21 October, 2014 14:28
“the only political fact derivable”
Inhabiting the space that holds that these truths are self-evident?
Hay Mr. Mercouris,
why would you pay such attention to a known lyer BND, aka another ZIA outlet?
Have you ever heard of their blunder with the so-called “Serbian Operation Horseshoe”, aaka, “Potkova”
in Kosovo, which turned to be nothing but a fraud serving its purpose during the bombing campaign against Serbia in 1999?
Here is an excerpt from a page that talks on the topic, & is taken from the zionazi trial against the Serbian nation as a whole, specifically, from Slobodan Miloshevich trial’s transcript, aka, the IGTY court in the Hague inquisition:
“Page 32956
12 Q. You mentioned two spellings of horseshoe there, one in Croat. If
13 you could just, for the record, spell that, and then the Serbian word for
14 “horseshoe,” if you could just spell that.
15 A. The name was published at the press conference and used throughout
16 by Minister Scharping as “potkova.” “Potkova” is a Croat name for a
17 horseshoe whereas the Serbian name would be “potkovica.”
18 Q. Any other direct information that you are able to give concerning
19 this — this matter of Operation Horseshoe? You told us about Kajdacsy.
20 Anyone else that you spoke to about it concerning the validity of it as a
21 plan?
22 A. I spoke with General Naumann about this. I quoted him in one of
23 my articles, too, and he said unequivocally that NATO had not taken this
24 material when Minister Scharping had offered it, because A, no second NATO
25 partner was willing to confirm its validity; and B, because I quote
Page 32957
1 General Naumann, it was more analytical material, in inverted commas. I
2 also had a telephone interview with Ms. Del Ponte’s predecessor in office,
3 Louise Arbour, also gave material to Minister Scharping and I published a
4 quote where Louise Arbour told me that she would have taken this had it
5 been a proper operation with a cover page and a stamp and a signature.
6 That would have been a smoking gun for her. But as it was, it was nothing
7 but a nice bedtime story.”
https://listserv.buffalo.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=JUSTWATCH-L;43e5b49b.1201
On another site someone was doubting anything the reporters say is true, eg the sighting of the BUK in Shniznhe and tanks filling at gas station etc.
So I found this funny video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rz-uYcrRww
The funniest bit is how the attendant treats it like totally normal.
Again, if it was a BUK, where are the photos of the missile’s smoke trail??? Surely SOMEONE would have taken pics, and surely military intelligence (choose your favourite country and insert here) would have picked it up?
4. There were some reports before the MH17 tragedy that the NAF had indeed captured a BUK missile system. It is difficult to say how credible those reports were. As I have previously said, given that the capture of such a system would have been a considerable coup, one might have expected the NAF to make more of the fact by publishing photographs of the BUK system they had captured. That however never happened.
——
Totally agree. If the NAF had captured a BUK it would have been featured prominently on Col. Cassad’s blog with the cute little plush toy front and center as were shown on dozen of photos on his site in Aug. and Sept.
A captured BUK would have been immediately newsworthy for propaganda purposes.
Any report on MH17 is garbage without released transcripts of the ATC tapes. Which I personally believes Putin is keeping in his back pocket for future use to embarass Obama, Merkel and the EU.
My guess is since Maidan every communique has been vacuumed up by russia.
I too have been following this murder case since just a few hours after the shoot down. I believe the most credible evidence on who shot down MH17 comes from the consistent eyewitness reports regarding the fighter jets trailing the doomed plane. I have also seen a video of a BUK being launched which had a signature white smoke tail that no eyewitnesses saw. Even more conspicuous than the smoke tail, however, is the overpowering sound the launch makes. The fact that not one single witness has said he/she heard such an explosion is indeed evidence that there was no such explosion. As for cui bono, just a few hours after the shoot down, Israel launched its ground invasion of Gaza. Also, whereas the day before the shoot down the EU was reluctant to impose further sanctions on Russia, the day after the EU was lockstep with the U.S. Must be just a coincidence.
More on the ‘Ebola’ Plannedemic:
Here is another article on weaponized Ebola
http://rt.com/news/197500-us-army-ebola-weapon/
WHO HAD WHAT:
BUK — NAF was publicly reported as having a BUK on June 26.Their PR machinery was not as well developed then as it is now, so they had no photos of it — as the don’t of many other valuable equipment captures even today. No pictures is not proof they didn’t have one.
—-
I don’t understand that logic (not critical of your thoughts on this Kat Kan).
If the NAF had a BUK we are to be expected to believe the one and only time they used it was so they could down a commercial jet liner?
That only makes sense if the NAF were the same dead ender nihilists that ISIS are.
I don’t know diddly about war materiel, but these weapons aren’t as easy to use as picking up a gun, pointing and shooting. That was some precision firing.
Cui bono? Did the NAF get the ATC tower to alter the plane’s route and drop in altitude for the kill shot?
It was Ukraine trying to shoot the plane down so it would fall over Russian territory. Those fockups couldn’t even commit a false flag correctly.
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/10/20/germans-clear-russia-in-mh-17-case/
The source specifically said the U.S. intelligence evidence did not implicate Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko or Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk but rather suggested an extremist element of the armed forces funded by one of Ukraine’s oligarchs.
Kolomoisky???
—
Which oligarch has the racket on air travel? There’s your villain
I read that the Green Party rep who was one of the men that the BND was supposed to have briefed.Says they didn’t present evidence at the meeting after all.Debunking the claim that they did show the parliamentary committee proof.
This whole MH17 tragedy may never been solved to the public’s satisfaction.More than likely the West and the Russian’s both know the truth. But neither is presenting real credible 100% proof to the public,why I don’t know.I have ideas of why one side or the other wouldn’t want to,but both,that’s the mystery.
Personally,at first I thought it was a mistaken shootdown by my side (the NAF).But the more I hear the more it points to the junta.And I certainly hope that is the party responsible.
So what do we really know right now beyond doubt.Really very,little but a few things are known.
1.According to both the West and the Russian’s.Russia didn’t do it.
2.The NAF did announce days before they had captured a BUK.The junta on the one hand denies it.And on the other hand,some in their military admit it.But claim it wasn’t operable.
3.Pictures show,and Russia claims.That the junta had several BUKS in the area at the time of the shootdown.And the Russians say their radar showed they were turned on a little while before the shootdown.
4.The SBU posted a video claiming to prove the NAF did the shootdown.But it was posted “before” the shootdown.
There are many other claims,evidence,whatever out there as well.But these four are beyond question things we know to be true.The others true or not are open to question still.
Is the real issue the downing of the plane by whichever means? Or the redirection of the plane over the war zone?
Clearly it is the latter, as the amount of money needed for the CIA to bribe a starving Novorossian SAM crew in hopes of framing Russia is less than pocket change.
But could Russia redirect the plane over Novorossiya? No, only the New World Order could do that.
Germans doing their own lets blame the ones who cant help themselves. I trust the Germans far less the AZ’s themselves. Good to see it is not just me that thinks the US is the biggest sponsor of Terrorism and instability in the world. None of the pip squeaks like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or Turkey would fund, train and send terrorists all around the world if they knew they would get clobbered without unkle Sammy to protect them from sodomization.
Is The US Government The Master Criminal Of Our Time? By Paul Craig Roberts
This is official confirmation of Dr. Boyle and Dr. Broderick’s reports that the US government has conducted ebola experiments. Perhaps the vaccine was not effective, and those on whom the experiment was conducted came down with ebola and perhaps also employees in the US bio-warfare laboratories located in Africa where the experiment was conducted.
It appears that the test consists of giving an ebola vaccine and then exposing the unaware person to ebola, apparently an engineered version for bio-warfare. Whatever the tests are, it is clear that Boyle and Broderick in their articles below are correct that experimentation with ebola by the US government is underway.
The US is a Leading Terrorist State By Noam Chomsky
“TeleSur” – An international poll found that the United States is ranked far in the lead as “the biggest threat to world peace today,” far ahead of second-place Pakistan, with no one else even close.
On October 14, the lead story in the New York Times reported a study by the CIA that reviews major terrorist operations run by the White House around the world, in an effort to determine the factors that led to their success or failure, finally concluding that unfortunately successes were rare so that some rethinking of policy is in order. The article went on to quote Obama as saying that he had asked the CIA to carry out such inquiries in order to find cases of “financing and supplying arms to an insurgency in a country that actually worked out well. And they couldn’t come up with much.” So he has some reluctance about continuing such efforts.
The article opens by citing US operations “from Angola to Nicaragua to Cuba.”
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article40026.htm
Germans doing their own lets blame the ones who cant help themselves. I trust the Germans far less the AZ’s themselves. Good to see it is not just me that thinks the US is the biggest sponsor of Terrorism and instability in the world. None of the pip squeaks like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or Turkey would fund, train and send terrorists all around the world if they knew they would get clobbered without unkle Sammy to protect them from sodomization.
Is The US Government The Master Criminal Of Our Time? By Paul Craig Roberts
This is official confirmation of Dr. Boyle and Dr. Broderick’s reports that the US government has conducted ebola experiments. Perhaps the vaccine was not effective, and those on whom the experiment was conducted came down with ebola and perhaps also employees in the US bio-warfare laboratories located in Africa where the experiment was conducted.
It appears that the test consists of giving an ebola vaccine and then exposing the unaware person to ebola, apparently an engineered version for bio-warfare. Whatever the tests are, it is clear that Boyle and Broderick in their articles below are correct that experimentation with ebola by the US government is underway.
The US is a Leading Terrorist State By Noam Chomsky
“TeleSur” – An international poll found that the United States is ranked far in the lead as “the biggest threat to world peace today,” far ahead of second-place Pakistan, with no one else even close.
On October 14, the lead story in the New York Times reported a study by the CIA that reviews major terrorist operations run by the White House around the world, in an effort to determine the factors that led to their success or failure, finally concluding that unfortunately successes were rare so that some rethinking of policy is in order. The article went on to quote Obama as saying that he had asked the CIA to carry out such inquiries in order to find cases of “financing and supplying arms to an insurgency in a country that actually worked out well. And they couldn’t come up with much.” So he has some reluctance about continuing such efforts.
The article opens by citing US operations “from Angola to Nicaragua to Cuba.”
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article40026.htm
Cassandra Says:
I do not like this one bit. There is nothing new here at all. We always knew the U.S. had satellite images.
Did they supply them to the Germans to help stem increasing skepticism?
Or is it just a message? And if so, what does it say?
Maybe “We’ll let you off the hook if you ditch the resistance?”
After several weeks of hunting trophy photos and reports, I have concluded that NAF and Russia have been telling the truth all along. Russia has not been giving any kind of military assistance to NAF. Russia’s assistance has been limited to the white trucks and to a failure to crack down from their side on border crossings. And even this policy has changed.
Russian people for various reasons have spontaneously mobilized to send whatever help they can find to the resistance, including army surplus if they could find some, I suppose. I would think the obsolete equipment found on both sides in Ukraine could be picked up for $10 and a Big Mac at a storage depot.
Russia’s prestige will take a hit if Ukraine winds up with the Donbass, but few around the world will know or care how much preventable suffering and death Russia was willing to watch from the sidelines.
I mean, my God!, she turned back a donation of 100 winter jackets.
To assess the allegations of the BND it is important to know its history. It was the BND that hired Bandera to wage a covert war against the USSR after 1945. Therefore I have no doubt that the BND continues to collaborate with Ukrainian nazis(see for example the German spies that were caputured in Slavyansk in April). The BND is the renamed nazi intelligence service “Fremde Heere Ost” that took part in “Operation Barbarossa”. The chief of the BND(the nazi general Gehlen) and his personnel was mainly the same it was under Hitler. After being hired by the CIA Gehlen falsely portrayed the USSR as a huge threat for the US to advance his career. He was the only US source of intelligence on the USSR at that time and played an important role in instigating the Cold War. The BND also played a crucial role in the destruction of Yugoslavia by backing the Ustashe after WW2 and provided false information(“Curveball”) on WMD before the Iraq war.
If Russia has any sense they will immediately come out and blame this on the CIA/NSA.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-20/anti-petrodollar-ceo-french-energy-giant-total-dies-freak-plane-crash-moscow
“Anti-Petrodollar” CEO Of French Energy Giant Total Dies In Freak Plane Crash In Moscow
Three months ago, the CEO of Total, Christophe de Margerie, dared utter the phrase heard around the petrodollar world, “There is no reason to pay for oil in dollars,” as we noted here. Today, RT reports the dreadful news that he was killed in a business jet crash at Vnukovo Airport in Moscow after the aircraft hit a snow-plough on take-off. The airport issued a statement confirming “a criminal investigation has been opened into the violation of safety regulations,” adding that along with 3 crewmembers on the plane, the snow-plough driver was also killed.
Kat Kan said…
No oligarch personally had much to gain by NATO involvement against Russia.
Are you kidding me? Are you really that naïve?
A few points to consider:
-According to numerous reports Svoboda (and Right Sector) has been funded by Kolomoisky since at least 2012. Moreover he has publicly supported Svoboda since 2010. Consider the incongruity of that – a committed Zionist supporting an anti-semitic organization.
-Kolomoisky has raised his own mercenary army, complete with the BUK missiles. He finances and contols the Azov Battalion; the Aidar Battalion, the Donbass Battalion, and the Dniepr Battalion (of Odessa massacre fame). These battalions are composed of neo-nazis, mercenaries, Blackwater, ex-isreali commandos, etc. They have committed most of the atrocities in eastern Ukraine.
-According to leaked tapes, Kolomoisky was behind the Odessa massacres, the event which catalyzed the revolt in eastern Ukraine. Prior to that there was talk of federalism.
-Kolomoisky is the governor of Dnipropetrovsk. It is his personal fiefdom where he rules with impunity.
Dnipropetrovsk is also where the regional air traffic control centre is located. It is where Kolomoisky’s aviation
business is located, giving him complete access to all areas of operation.
(According to Federal Air Transport Agency (Rosaviatsiya) head Alexander Neradko: “When the plane disappeared from the radar screen it was the responsibility of an air traffic controller of the Ukrainian Dnipropetrovsk air traffic control center”. So if the plane was intentionally diverted it came from there.)
-.He has already publicly defied Poroshenko during the cease-fire negotiated in June between the EU, Russia and the Ukraine because it did not serve his interests.
(Oligarch Kolomoysky going to “finish off” militiamen in east Ukraine despite ceasefire
http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_06_21/Oligarch-Kolomoisky-not-going-to-obey-Poroshenkos-plan-and-will-finish-off-militiamen-in-any-case-8563/)
-He also just happens to be the beneficial owner of Burisma Holdings, Ukraine’s largest private gas producer (VP Biden’s son appointed to its board of directors), which has large holdings in the Donbass and surrounding area. So the stakes for him are huge. (Burisma has recently started fracking operations in Slavyansk, the center of a massive shale gas deposit of 3.6 trillion m3.)
-Pavel Gubarev, Acting Head of the Mobilization Department for Ministry of Defense of the Donestk People’s Republic, today 4th August 2014, stated “We will not allow making the land of Donbass a fracking field for Western companies. We will not let them turn Donbass into a plundered desert”. (note: this is the Pavel Gubarev who wants to confiscate oligarchs assets and who just happened to have recently been the target of an assassination attempt)
-Leadership of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic said property of Kolomoisky would be confiscated.He has already lost his consideable assets in Crimea.
The United States has banned several Hungarian citizens from entry and alleged that they were engaged in or benefiting from corruption, prompting the Hungarian government to call for a show of evidence.
Prime Minister Viktor Orban’s government has clashed several times with the European Union and the United States over reforms that critics said harmed some foreign investors and weakened the system of checks and balances in the former Communist satellite.
“The U.S. Department of Justice has established an anti-kleptocracy unit to expand capacity to pursue cases in which ill-gotten wealth overseas is found to have a U.S. connection,” the U.S. Embassy in Budapest said on its website on Saturday.
“Certain Hungarian individuals have been found ineligible to enter the United States as the result of credible information that those individuals are either engaging in or benefiting from corruption,” the U.S. Embassy statement said.
Interesting. 1. Hungary is part of blossoming puppet democracies, member of EU and NATO. 2. Hungary has own legal system and they know what to do, the do not need help 3. USA is angry and interfere in internal affairs of Hungary. 4. This is very good step to make more enemies. If USA think Hungary will bow…well those countries have experience with Soviet invasion.
Breaking paradigma or dogmas is a sin
fk germany.they are suffering from stockholm syndrome.what a joke.too busy building cars to realise their past.like a puppet show with US pulling the strings.where r the french? looks like US $ is keeping everyone subservient…until SHTF.the irony that russia is the real beacon.but its not ironic it has always been like that we just fell for the propaganda..we live and learn..Russia,amazing statesmen
The BND report, which was not made public, rested according to the press at least partially on space reconnaissance that is on imaging satellites.
Which makes it necessary to remind a number of facts, for proper context:
1. Germany doesn’t have military imaging satellites
2. NATO doesn’t have military imaging satellites
Meaning that those satellites images in the BND report can only have been American in origin. Had they been French images, the information would have been confirmed from Paris, which is presently keeping mum on the topic.
Therefore the BND has used satellite images provided by the USA.
3. In 1990, to overcome Saudi King’s reservation on allowing deployment of US forces on Saudi territory, the US president George HW Bush gave him satellite images showing Iraqi armor units massed at the border, ready to invade the Saudi kingdom. Then, King Fahd agreed on US military deployment.
It turned out later that those satellite images were fakes.
4. In 2003, to overcome international reservations on granting UN approval on the projected US invasion of Iraq, Colin Powell displayed to the UN Security Council satellite images showing Iraqi mobile biological weapon labs. Reservations were maintained, because of France with Russia and Germany acting against such UN approval.
It turned out later that those satellite images were fakes.
5. One reason why France was so confident in rejecting US satellite images later emerged… very simply, French military imaging satellites were not seeing those Iraqi bioweapon labs!
6. Incidentally, late last August, when satellite images emerged purportedly showing full Russian armored units in the Donbass, French military leaked information that reason why France was not so enthusiastic was that… well, again, French imaging satellites were not seeing all these Russian armored units!
However, the French government decided not to make a fuss this time, by contrast with 2003. This is a different brand of French leaders we have now at our helm… unfortunately :-(
Now of course, God only knows who shot down MH17. God… and the perpetrators. Donbass separatists are one possible culprit, albeit by far not the most probable when compared with Ukrainian maidanists.
And of course, even habitual liers and cheaters occasionnally tell the truth from time to time.
So those US satellite images provided to BND MIGHT be genuine, by contrast with usual.
It’s just that… how to put it… I wouldn’t bet the farm on it.
Anonymous said…@ 22 October, 2014 08:11
“It was the BND that hired Bandera to wage a covert war against the USSR after 1945.”
Perhaps a misrepresentation through omission of the roles of CIC,”British intelligence” and subsequently CIA, and a type of self-imposed blindness through limiting field of vision.
You do cite various insurgencies in various forms and locations under GLADIO – which is generally restricted to Italy – but omit others of perhaps more relevant concern as say the Forest Brotherhood in Lithuania, the Ukrainian civil war 1941-approx 1949 and the sterling efforts of Mr. H.A.R. Philby and others.
These might have led you to the following questions regarding Stepan Bandera of present utility.
1. Who carried out the hit?
2. Who facilitated the hit?
3. Who were complicit in the hit?
4. What was the purpose of the hit?
5. What was/is Munich’s significance then and now?
It is bad manners to remove someone’s asset without their knowledge.
Great article. I just want to add the following.
The Buk hypothesis is totally without merit. There is simply no way in the world a fragmentation blast is capable of producing neatly aligned round holes at regular intervals as seen on the wreckage of the downed Malaysian airliner:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxBNE99IAAEYZAa.jpg:large
Now combine this with the fresh eyewitness accounts mentioning one or two fighter planes flying in the vicinity of the doomed Malaysian Boeing moments before hearing explosions.
MH17 was a false flag event. The perpetrators couldn’t use a Buk missile, since they could not assure the “politically right” airliner would be hit. Moreover a Buk launch would have been next to impossible to do covertly within the rebel-held territory.
Great article. I just want to add the following.
The Buk hypothesis is totally without merit. There is simply no way in the world a fragmentation blast is capable of producing neatly aligned round holes at regular intervals as seen on the wreckage of the downed Malaysian airliner:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxBNE99IAAEYZAa.jpg:large
Now combine this with the fresh eyewitness accounts mentioning one or two fighter planes flying in the vicinity of the doomed Malaysian Boeing moments before hearing explosions.
MH17 was a false flag event. The perpetrators couldn’t use a Buk missile, since they could not assure the “politically right” airliner would be hit. Moreover a Buk launch would have been next to impossible to do covertly within the rebel-held territory.
Buying or flying Boeing is likely the unhealthy option.