Dear friends,
There are two stories which I am very interested in:
The first one is the story of the “Basij thug sniper on the roof who is not on the roof but on a motorbike who is not a sniper after all but who was shooting with a small caliber handgun“. It is quite possible that the government is trying to cover up something here and is lying about this small caliber handgun thing, but I very much doubt this. They are, after all, raising the issue of Neda’s murder at a time when this issue is quietly running out of steam. Then, a *small caliber* shot to the heart is something which is typical of a professional assassination. A small caliber is easy to hide, is quiet, very accurate and does the job very well, but only in the hands of a highly trained shooter. This story deserves all the scrutiny it can get. (did I mention that small caliber handgun is a favorite Mossad assassination weapon?).
The second story I am interested in is the story of the “fake Basij” recently arrested. Same disclaimer as above – could be just spin and damage control by the government. My questions here are: have the Basij deployed in Tehran been given weapons or not? That should be easy to verify. Second, has the local press revealed anything about the identities of the arrested individuals?
In particular, I ask those among you who either speak Farsi or have contacts in Iran to please help me and get me as many details as possible.
We *know* that Neda was NOT demonstrating. All sources agree about that. We also know that she was NOT close to any demonstrations. All sources agree about that too. We also know that the images of her wearing green (the color of this “color coded revolution” have been doctored (that has been admitted by all sources too). But none of that is a “smoking gun” (literally). But if we could only get a confirmation that what killed her was a small handgun round we would have an absolute certitude that this is a false flag assassination.
I ask you to please make a real effort, use all your contacts, to try to establish what the autopsy report on her death said.
Needless to say, the corporate press and the Left-leaning free press will now hush up this story. Considering how much indignation and outrage (not to mention how little cool logic) they put into Neda’s death, I don’t expect anybody to come up with a mea culpa. So the ONLY chance to find out is, I believe, the local press in Tehran (either paper or on the Fari Internet). I don’t understand Farsi and I don’t have personal contact in Iran.
Bottom line: I really need help here.
Many thanks in advance,
The Saker
A particular: here’s a report from the BBC site about the shooting, reportedly from the doctor that was next to Neda in her last moments of life. Here’s what they say:
The doctor who tried to save an Iranian protester as she bled to death on a street in Tehran has told the BBC of her final moments.
Dr Hejazi also told how passers-by then seized an armed Basij militia
volunteer who appeared to admit shooting Ms Soltan.
He doubted that he would be able to return to Iran after talking
openly about Ms Soltan’s killing.
“Anti-riot police were coming by motorcycles towards the crowd.”
[…]
“Suddenly everything turned crazy. The police threw teargas and the
motorcycles started rushing towards the crowd. We ran to an
intersection and people were just standing. They didn’t know what to
do.
But later he saw protesters grab an armed man on a motorcycle.
“People shouted ‘we got him, we got him’. They disarmed him and took out his identity card which showed he was a Basij member. People were furious and he was shouting, ‘I didn’t want to kill her’.
“People didn’t know what do to do with him so they let him go. But
they took his identity card. There are people there who know who he
is. Some people were also taking photos of him.”
Is just me, or there are too many things in this version that are too unlikely?
My dear Saker and others,
Your faith in the official versions of the ultras in power in Iran is really commendable!
Whatever they say, however fantastic or orwellian, you will believe it at face value and parrot it to exhaustion. Give me a break! Now this government is seeking to blur and erase the crime clues. There were certainly more deaths, but this one was filmed and has caused global outrage. So here they come, the vote-rigging experts telling the world that just like that there was a professional killer in the scene of the crime hired to kill that girl…
Come on, come on! Don’t be gullible! The Doctor who witnessed the killing has been formal about it, and his version is absolutely plausible, as an honest doctor who is risking permanent exile for the sake of truth, and you still give more credit to the vile fantasies of a bunch of bureaucrats! Even the words or “President-re-elect” Ahmadinejad demanding a “probe” already frame the script, by stressing foreign involvement…
Of course they needn’t speak of the other other dead, presumably there was a CIA-agent behind each demonstrator, who were also foreign agents btw according to the authorities, but there was no hype with their deaths, so the only one they will bother to blame third parties is Neda…
Poor Neda: she was killed by a thug, and now she’s killed for a second time by the thug’s bosses.
And you my friend are seeking farsi-speaking comments, I guess from the official media in Iran, as all the others are obviously working for foreign governments.
For sure, the rigged elections have been declared by the government’s officials the “healthiest” of the Islamic Republic history! Wow, this is Orwell’s Newspeak in full steam!
You’ll be surprised when the truth is known, far away from so much cooking.
Enrique
@Enrique: please read this
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2009/06/sniper-or-biker.html
and, please, PLEASE, consider the source: Ynet news, not exactly an Iranian government source.
Now, if you accept that there were doctored photos, then please give me a LOGICAL reason to assume that only that is fishy in this story.
Lastly, if it turns out that she was killed by small caliber handgun fire, are you STILL going to insist that she was shot by Basijis?
If you want an intelligent discussion of this topic, I will be glad to have it here, but if all you can contribue is sarcams and mantric repetitions of the “official” version, then you are wasting everybody’s time.
For whatever it’s worth to you, I can tell you as a former professional military analyst who researched other similar cases, this entire “Neda murder” thing has *all* the signs of a carefully staged event. Of course, you can dismiss my opinion as being an expression of a “pro-regime iranian agent” or of a naive idiot.
Frankly, I don’t give a damn about what you think, no offense intended. Just stating a fact.
Baseej do not carry any arms, they carry riot weapons such as batons and shields if the situation is volatile. The only people with guns are the Police and the Revolutionary Guards.
Side arms are never held by the Baseej simply because they are always in public and hence carrying them could turn into a nasty show of aggression if a situation gets out of hand.
There is a report somewhere which was released a day after the murder of Neda stating that there were no arms given to the Baseej militia during the entire period of the protests. Something which was actually stated in the Western Media not any Iranian source.
Iran is going to do a full investigation about the death of Neda , Im sure the enemies of Iran are behind such an horrible crime .
alex , the BBC has showed its true colors , take their stories with a pinch of salt .
Enrique Ferro said…”Your faith in the official versions of the ultras in power in Iran is really commendable!
Whatever they say, however fantastic or orwellian, you will believe it at face value and parrot it to exhaustion. Give me a break! Now this government is seeking to blur and erase the crime clues….”
Enrique,
It is obvious that you consider the Iranian government guilty as has been charged by the West, and therefore in your mind there is no need to question the versions of the Neda story being propagated by the Western media conglomerates….
Yet, others like myself prefer to question everything propagated by the Western media conglomerates and Western government talking heads because of the fact that I know they have propagated so much disinformation in the past that I cannot bring myself trust them and their sources…
This does not mean that I automatically trust everything that the Iranian media and government reports either, but what it does mean is that I am open to whatever appears to be more plausible considering other pertinent facts involved such as the fact that the West has been involved in ongoing covert operations in Iran and looking for every reason it can to justify enacting even more sanctions against the Iranian government to apply pressures on the Iranian people to overthrow it. So pardon me if this appears to be an ideal situation that just happens to play into the hands of the Western government own axis of evil….
Just because Obama has been saying that he is willing to talk to Iran doesn’t make it into a reality that has already been taking place ….
Saying you are willing to do something and actually doing what you are saying you are willing to do are two different things…
Don’t you find it the least bit strange that Obama already decided to wait until after the Iranian elections to talk to the Iranian government? AS if maybe he was waiting for some kind of change to happen…
Do you think that he was waiting for a possible covert overthrow?
MM
@anonymous1: Baseej do not carry any arms, they carry riot weapons such as batons and shields if the situation is volatile.
How sure are you of this? This is important, because if this is a fact, then those who do believe that a Basij was guilty would have to explain why he had a weapon.
Now, a Basij could have been specially issued a weapon I suppose, but that would mean that he was given a special mission, like shooting somebody, but that in turn begs the question of whether it is more plausible that the government or the opposition staged a carefully arranged muder of a good looking girl, does it not?
Or maybe it was not a Basij, but a policeman who has a gun. But then what about the fact that some alledged eyewitnesses say that not only was the *Basij* captured (and RELEASED?!?!?!), but then even had a photo of his ID. So if a Basij was captured (and RELEASED!?!?!?!??!) and his ID was photographed, WHERE IS THE PHOTO? But if that part is true, then it was not a cop, now was it?
This story has more holes than the best Swiss cheese….
@Alex
Is just me, or there are too many things in this version that are too unlikely?
Interesting is thats the doctor sit 3 days later already in London.
In an interview i have read that he was only for business in tehran.
@ vineyard
2 links what germany thinks.
but one link is unfortunate in german(where business people complain that they will lose business,especially gascontract,with the way how germany handle the crisis.
http://www.german-foreign-policy.com/en/fulltext/56257
http://www.german-foreign-policy.com/de/fulltext/57562
If you think the other comments/links made you doubt the story. Have a read of this http://thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=10979
The Doc gives two different accounts!
VS
This video report will interest you.
(though not about Neda)
http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2009/06/28/iran-not-a-twitter-revolution/
“Son of Iranian Shah: I know the moment will come when I will return” (video). Wow, we’re all excited.
@Anticapitalista: your point?
@Alex: I don’t think that the son of the Shah will return anytime soon, at least not as a monarch, but isn’t there an irony that objectively the Left is now cheering for the very same forces which the Iranian plutocrats count on? LOL!
@Afghani: one link is unfortunate in german
No problem, I am fluent in German. Thanks for the links!
VS
Did you watch the video?
My point is that the reporter questions a lot of what you have posted here about the demonstrators in Iran.
@Anticapitalista: yes, I did watch the video and, frankly, it is not in any way different from what the, shall we say, “majority opinion” has to say about these events. I just watched another video this morning, by Pepe Escobar, this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgNuKsCfi5Y
Which is even more lyrical.
The fact that I am in a minority for doubting the ‘official’ narrative about the elections, about the demonstrations, about Neda, etc. is hardly news to me. Though I am rather disgusted with the Left for being so easily conned, I am not in the least disturbed by being in the minority.
Many years ago I learned about the interesting work of Solomon Asch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asch_conformity_experiments) and I promised myself that I would never let a “majority opinion” over-ride what my own eyes and common sense tell me.
Frankly, since I have yet to see a SINGLE piece of evidence that the election was stolen, or a SINGLE coherent and credible narrative about the circumstances of Neda’s death, I feel rather good in my (relative) “solitude”.
I am not in the least attracted by the infantile narrative about the “freedom loving youth” versus the “theocratic Mullocracy” as a substitute for logic and facts. The latter is bullshit when it comes from the Right (Bush’s axis of evil comes to mind) and it is also bullshit when it comes form the Left.
Cheers!
VS
Except that the video link I sent you also questions the official Western narrative of events as well as the ‘official/government’ Iranian narrative that you have swallowed hook, line and sinker.
The left has not been conned (or at least a substantial part of it) in recognising the discontent in Iranian society from within the ruling elite as well as outside it and the intervention of forces way out of the reformist’s control.
The fact that you take it as given that just because Fox news ‘supports’ the demonstrators it must mean that the mass of demonstrators (and sections of the ruling elite in Iran) are being manipulated by forces in the USA and Israel.
This is just absurd and an insult to all those in Iran fighting for democracy and independence from both US/Zionist imperialism and the rule of the Iranian theocracy.
On the whole the left has quite clearly shown its opposition to US imperialism, Zionist colonialism and against any attacks on Iran (military or sanctions) whilst at the same time supporting a genuine democracy movement in Iran.
We have nothing to be ashamed of.
@anticapitalista: We have nothing to be ashamed of
Oh yeah?
How about fully buying into the claim that the elections were stolen even though there was exactly ZERO evidence for that?
How about supporting a friggin color-coded “revolution” headed by a former Khomeini minister (involved in the worst excesses of the Khomeini years!) and a notoriously corrupt billionaire?
How about accepting the various narratives (plural!!) about Neda’s death without even so much as a short pause to produce one single critical thought?
There is one thing in which the Left is correct: there is a substantial segment of the Iranian population which is fed up with the Islamic government and which wants change. I have no argument with that. But that substantial segment is a MINORITY and the blind support this minority gets from the Lefties, combined with the utter disdain for the very existance of the MAJORITY which does want to live in an Islamic Republic show how hypocritical the Left is towards the very concept of “democracy”.
Of course, when I speak of the “Left”, I am primarily talking about the “petit bourgeois kind of marxists”, the kind that the French call “la gauche caviar”. Folks like Chavez did not fall into the trap and immediately understood what was going on.
There is a cultural imperialism in the Left which arrogantly assumes that national liberation cannot come from an Islamic regime , nevermind that Hezbollah – which also fully supports Khamenei – proves beyond any doubt that the most effective and powerful national liberation movement on the planet is Islamic and Shia and pro-Iranian.
That is the biggest reason for the Left to be ashamed of itself: it’s *cultural imperialism* and arrogance towards other cultures and towards religion in general.
“Mullah bad! Secular good!” and anybody questioning this dogma is a “supporter of the regime”.
Typical Stalinist “logic”. God thing you guys can’t slap an article 58 on me and send me to the Gulag…
Greetings, VS.
I don’t believe that the Iranian demonstrations were the same as the colour revolutions at all.
There is evidence of the elections being rigged. Just because you don’t agree that they were, doesn’t mean there is no evidence. Anyhow, rigged or not, this isn’t the underlying reason for the demonstrations. Sure Mousavi used it in his battle within the elite to strenghten his hand (and his supporter’s within the elite).
This opened up a gap for the masses to express their discontent with the regime.
I agree with you that many on the left have got it wrong when it comes to Islam and movements such as Hamas and Hezbollah. You also know that the Marxists that frequent Lenin’s Tomb do not have a cultural imperialist outlook and have had sharp arguments with other Marxists who start off attacking Islam, Hamas, Hezbollah etc. We actually had a physical confrontation in Thessaloniki on one of the demonstrations for Palestine in January with the Palestinian Authority supporters (Abbas and Fatah) as they tried to prevent anyone shouting slogans in support of Hamas.
The left is a lot more than old worn out Stalinists!
Oh and on that I find you last paragraph quite funny as the Stalists that would put you in a gulag actually agree with your assessment of what is happening in Iran!
Have a read of this article;
Iran and Leftist Confusion-by Reese Erlich.
commondreams.org
@Anticapitalista: read Eric Walberg’s article (the one I just posted on top of the blog). He sums it all up very well. But then, if you actually believe, like Reese Erlich, that Chavez “simply got in wrong” and “exactly backwards” then nothing Eric wrote will convince you otherwise.
Bottom line: in this conflict, it’s Ahmadinejad and Khamenei who are on the “left”, who are for the masses and who are against the Empire. The other side only wants to live just like the Americans do. More relevantly, the other side lost the popular vote and cannot accept that. Rafsanjani and his Guccis are using these “useful idiots” with their silly green color to protect their billions.
How ironic that the so-called Left is totally unable to see a class struggle when it actually takes place!
Anyway,
I side with Nasrallah and Chavez. You can side with the rest of them.
VS
VS,
I side with Nasrallah and Chavez against American imperialism and Zionism, but they are wrong when it comes to the recent events in Iran.
Ahmadinejad and Khamenei are far from being on the left. Just because they spout anti-Zionist and anti-US rhetoric doesn’t make them on the left, in the same way that Mousavi is no leftist. Both Ahmadinejad and Mousavi are anti-American imperialism and anti-Zionist. There is no way anyone who is pro-US/Israel would get even 1% of the vote in Iran.
The conflict is not between pro and anti-US forces (cleverly orchestrated by the Zionists and USraelis he.. he.. he), but between different wings WITHIN the Iranian ruling class on how best for Iran to proceed. Both have an agenda of further attacks on the Iranian masses via privatisation. Mousavi and his lot think it is best to achieve this with some sort of ‘reform’ to open up Iranian society with economic and political ‘openings’ (like Gorbachov’s perestroika and glastnost) whereas Ahmadinejad wants to limit the process or at least slow it down.
I side with the working masses of Iran independently of both wings of the ruling class. It is weak, but the recent events will have helped them to develop their own political existence against both Ahmadinejad and Mousavi and of course the USiraelian empire and for a workers and socialist solution.
@Anticapitalista: [Chavez and Nasrallah] are wrong when it comes to the recent events in Iran.
How come? You know something they don’t? Or maybe they are not principled enough to take a stance honestly? Or maybe not smart enough?
I say that they know more than you or I, that they are not the kind of people that would put expediency over principles, and I say that they are the smartest and experienced politicians out there.
You are kidding yourself that you side with Chavez and Nasrallah just as you are kidding yourself when you think that a majority of Iranians did not vote for Ahmadinejad. You are also kidding yourself when you think that the demonstrators what freedom or democracy when, in reality, they want *capitalism* and the right to indulge that is promises.
You are, however, correct in comparing Mousavi to Gorbachev (or, better, Eltsin). Just like Gorbi brought down the USSR and sold out to the Empire, so will Mousavi.
And I tell you, the Middle-East simply cannot afford to lose the Islamic Republic of Iran which is the linchpin of the entire resistance to the USraelian Empire. Khamenei and the IRGC have what it takes to stand up to the Empire, the other guys are for sale. That’s how simple it is. And if you deny that, you are also kidding yourself.
But Chavez and Nasrallah understand that perfectly. They know that Rafsanjani and his (pseudo-) “reformers” are Iran’s variant of Glasnost and Perestroika and they know that the world cannot afford that and that the people of Iran don’t want that.
But most tragically and comically, you are blind to the fact that the poor in Iran support Ahmadinejad, massively. First and foremost, because he is one of them, then because his policies help them, then because he, unlike Mousavi, actually took the time to reach out to them, to campaign all over the country to explain his vision. You, the self-declared Marxist, cannot see the HUGE role classes are playing in this struggle only because you fail to see that the Iranian working happens not to share your political views.
As for me, I don’t share the religion of these masses, nor their culture or their language. Yet, you dismiss me as a “supporter of the regime” solely because I reject the official narrative about this election and the murder of Neda. In your world, the Iranian masses trust Mousavi and I “support the regime” – nevermind if any of that has any basis in reality.
This “ideology over reality” might provide you with a certain comfort level, after all, it is simple and reassuring. But it puts you on the wrong side of the barricades.
So don’t come here telling me that you side with Nasrallah and Chavez (or the masses of Iran, for that matter). That is fundamentally dishonest. How could you be with them when they are so clearly against you?
You are objectively a supporter of what would be a cataclysmic disaster for the entire Middle-East (and the rest of the planet). That is your right, I suppose, but you should at least promote this cataclysm with open eyes if that is what you stand for.
The thing is VS you look at politics and political action from a top down approach. The role of the masses in political action is secondary to the role of great or not so great leaders whether they be Chavez, Nasrallah or Ahmadinejad on the one hand and the scumbags of Western imperialism such as the US president and the (republican) guard of the old Bush era.
For you the masses are just manipulated like sheep and cannot control their own destiny.
Where did you get the info that the poor support Ahmadinejad? There is evidence that this was not actually the case, especially in the towns and cities (Iran is a very urban society). I’m sure that many of the poor did actually vote for Ahmadinejad and I’m also sure that many Ahmadinejad voters participated in the demonstrations for greater democracy (the report from Reese Erlich mentions this).
Nowhere in my posts did I say that “the Iranian masses trust Mousavi”. I made it clear that they went well beyond Mousavi’s politics.
A cataclysmic disaster for the Middle East is to support the repression of the democatic opposition in Iran. If Iran is to be a stalwart against Zionist aggression and US imperialism in the region, then it needs people who are prepared to do that. The regime of Ahmadinejad limits that potential.
@anticapitalista: For you the masses are just manipulated like sheep and cannot control their own destiny.
Hey, I am not the one who came up with the concept of the Party as the vanguard of the people :-)
Nowhere in my posts did I say that “the Iranian masses trust Mousavi”.
tss, tss. Can’t have it both ways. Either the election was stolen or not. If it was, then the masses voted predominantly for Mousavi which, I presume, is an expression of trust. Or they did not, in which case the election was not stolen.
You know what proves that your approach puts ideology over facts?
How rapidly you (the collective Left) jumped to the conclusion that there had been fraud and that the election had been stolen without even taking the time to get the details about the vote count, much less so the time to analyse it all carefully.
Let’s face it: you sided against the “Mullahs” on a knee-jerk ideological reaction to Ahmadinejad’s win by 11’000’000 votes (try faking that!).
The rest is all rationalizations…
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