Events in the Ukraine are taking a very serious turn: Poroshenko has declared that private “pocket” armies of governors will no longer be tolerated and he has now given Kolomoiskii 24 hours to lay down arms. Poroshenko’s chief henchmen – Arsen Avakov and the CIA’s Valentin Nalivaichenko – have indicated that Poroshenko has their full support and loyalty. In other words, the full power of the junta is now threatening to come down on Kolomoiskii’s head. Kolomoiskii, in turn, is preparing some kind of pro-Kolomoiskii “maidan” in Dnepropetrovsk for Wednesday. In order to prevent that, several death squads (“national guard battalions”) have been sent to the city.
Kolomoiskii
It sure looks like the freaks are really going to go after each other.
It will be very interesting to observe how this will play out. The US seems to be fully supporting Poroshenko as will most other countries. For the Empire, it might be a good moment to get rid of such a fantastically odious figure like Kololmoiskii.
Interestingly, Kolomoikii has recently declared in an interview that if new elections were organized in Novorussia he believed that Zakharchenko and other Novorussian officials would probably be reelected. Such overtures to the Novorussian leadership are a sign that Kolomoiskii is in a tough spot and that he is considering his options.
As for Poroshenko, he appears as bellicose as ever, making grand statements about everything and running around in battle fatigues. Whether that will be enough to impress a thug whose net worth is estimated at 1.3 billion dollars is unclear to me. And yet, I don’t see Kolomoiskii prevailing in this fight. Not only is the Empire clearly supporting Poroshenko, as key “power figures” in the junta, but even Russia has (reluctantly) accepted that, at least for the time being, Poroshenko was if not fully legitimate, then the real de-facto leader of the Nazi occupied Ukraine. So while left one on one Kolomoiskii would probably easily defeat Poroshenko, the fact that the latter has the full backing of the Empire will probably be crucial.
I would add that for the Empire to support the weaker party is normal, but not out of some sense of justice for the little guy, but simply because the stronger party does not need external support to win whereas the weaker party always does. This is the real reason why the Empire will always side with the minority, with the smaller group – it is easier to control. Siding with Poroshenko just makes the him even more dependent on US support.
So it all adds up: Kolomoiskii is a universally loathed figure, there is a very good chance that MH17 can be fully dumped on him (thereby providing the Empire with a face saving “out”), he is probably very hard to control and he is threatening the junta. If I was sitting in Langley my recommendation would be clear: send him to Muzychko.
The Saker
Your comment.. http://www.sott.net/article/294227-Oligarch-infighting-Kolomoisky-given-24-hours-to-disarm-his-private-army-after-storming-gas-giants-HQ
Yep. I expect a trip to Israel is on the cards – and even that might result in him being shopped to vested interests: he’d be a fool to trust Bibi.
He has Swiss passport and spends most of his time there.
RR
He lives in Geneva mostly, yes. But he doesn’t have a Swiss passport. As far as I know, he holds Cypriote, Israeli and Ukrainian passports.
Give me one shred of court-proof, hard evidence concerning MH-17 (the one youtube-vid where he admits having financed the shooting down and similar is not sufficient in front of a court) and I’ll run personally to the next police station here in SUI and will see to him being arrested.
Remember a few years ago, when Dubya Bush aka Jorge Arbuste changed his travel plans to SUI because the Geneva Cantonal Police would have arrested him on arrival?
Kolomoisky’s paperwork is being held up by Swiss authorities, at the moment. So the pressure is on him even there. His wife and children, however, have been approved.
Meanwhile, it looks like the US has quickly put together a resolution on sending over lethal weapons to Ukraine:
http://docs.house.gov/billsthisweek/20150323/MAS_087_xml.friday.pdf
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/march/23/congress-demands-war-in-ukraine/
Will these weapons be used against the separatists, or perhaps against Kolomoisky…?
The false flag expected to relaunch the war will be..some US/UK ‘instructors’ killed of course..it will be NR or RF fault even if this happen in Lviv…the perfect pretext,do not forget that the life of ONE occidental soldier is at least equal to 10.000 NR or RF ones and leads to a state of war,more sanctions,more weapons etc etc
I bet 50 eur/usd on this scenario.
Not in this situation they will run home if any get shot.
I’d take that bet. The problem with that scenario is that in Ukraine, the US position is very definitely “Let’s you and him fight!” They don’t want to get directly involved with their own personnel. Or at least, only the really, really insane ones do. Not just the few sane but even the run-of-the-mill crazy are wary enough to want to be pretty sure this stays a proxy war.
But the death of US servicepeople doesn’t call for a Ukrainian response, it calls for a direct US response. They won’t go there.
However, a few neocon crazies actually want World War 3. So they’ll arrange for the death of a few American “advisors”, hoping to sucker the US military into Ukraine. This may trigger the global conflict the neocons so dearly want.
With the US “allies” jumping ship on the AIIB, China setting up the Yuan as an international reserve currency and the end of gold fixing, the US now has the noose around its neck. Looks like those nut cases are going to go for all out (nuclear) war with Russia.
An attack on Crimea now is an attack on Russia, also if any of the pissant baltic states that the US is militarising makes an attack on Russia the US may also use that as an excuse for a pre-emptive strike.
Peter, I don’t think it’s quite an end to gold fixing: The London Gold Fixing by 4 big banks has been turned over to some other body– which is sposed to result in more liquidity, less manipulation.
I think it’s possible there’s a struggle going on between Rockefeller and Rothschild. Rothschild, thru Franklin something, owns a lot of the Ukraine bonds, so will be against the destruction of the country, but I think the US wants more destruction.
Also somebody’s killed Hillary’s campaign w mega-corruption disclosures. These appeared in Murdoch’s News Corporation media, which I think is still Rothschild controlled. Clinton’s are clearly Rockefeller-faction (He’s the bastard of Winthrop Rockefeller).
My question remains, does the downfall of the US mean a downfall of the international banking cabal and their world dominance? Or will it be the same system now using China instead of US?
That’s a good question, Penny. After the ultra-close elections in Brazil (which, in turn, came after some very color-revvy protests right before the world cup), Rousseff appointed a guy name Joaquim Levy as her new finance minister. Levy is ex-IMF and ECB. He is seen as a Soros-protegé. The thinking is that TPTB want to use Brazil to ‘infiltrate’ BRICS, either to try steer it from within, or–if all else fails–to sabotage it.
People like to see things more simplistically than they invariably turn out to be. Particular focus of USA’s gaze on Brazil is more likely to driven by be Brazil’s geopolitical vulnerability in historically the most zealously policed and “sentimental” of the US’s backyards and the one they batten down when adventures further afield go awry. The USA is cureently gaining momentum in their LAm focus (the promise of revived bolivarianism is somewhat guttering), following very overt meddling in Paraguay and Honduras, removal of the biggest thorn, Chavez, and increasing instability in Argentina & Brazil.
Regarding BRICS vulnerability, equally convincing arguments could be made for South Africa (in any event, a peculiarly mismatched member) as the wedge (well and truly under the thumb of the USA since well before De Klerk’s capitulation and secured withHani’s removal from the equation by “loan nut” Walusz. It requires only a little dot-joining to start making sense of the USA’s insane obsession with fomenting violence through their proxy in Nigeria, towards a goal of the “Sudanese option”: fragmenting Nigeria. A spin-off from prising the oil-rich soutyh off? Intact, the only truly BRICable nation on the continent and therefore an obvious threat to the USA’s SA.
Something people always forget or ignore is SA as a “half-eye”, still very much connected with the other five.
Plausible arguments could be made for India too as a wedge. The truth is the USA’s approach is certain to be multifarious and involve forked tongues, chequebooks, threats, diplomacy as they (mis)understand it, ngo subversion and all their other strategies.
Seamus, unfortunately, Roussef hired Levy as finance minister specifically to “embrace a new strategy of vastly increasing the profits of foreign and domestic finance capital, in the hope of attracting large scale investments to end economic stagnation. . . the entire economy must be directed to gaining the “confidence” of the capitalist class.
The social policies which were implemented earlier are now subject to elimination or reduction. [Cause of the econ meltdown: previous IMF agreement & strictures: read more.]
Further, there is an attempted color revolution against her in the form of a dubious corruption charge. Foreign ownership of media has been able to cause massive demonstrations w calls for her to step down, even tho recently re-elected.
Regards
“My question remains, does the downfall of the US mean a downfall of the international banking cabal and their world dominance? Or will it be the same system now using China instead of US? “
The downfall of the US will mean the end of the West’s global domination. Unlike after WW2 when there was a rising western power i.e the US to take over from France and Britain, there is no such power today. China is the rising power and it is fully eastern.
What is at stake for Western elites is the collapse of 500 years of global domination. The international banking cabal is a western cabal. Its power is contained within a western historical/cultural/imperialist envelope. It cannot break out. China will not be controlled by western economic forces, once it is geopolitically stronger than the west.
This is what makes this confrontation far more dangerous than any other since WW2. It represents not just a conflict amongst the western elites but the transfer of global power east, and the complete subordination of western elites to eastern ones. For western global power this is existential and so we should be ready for anything.
All options are on the table.
signing my name to the comment above. ;)
The West in general and America in particular will never cede their power with attempting to unleash a massive bloodbath on the world.
It’s that simple.
Western ”civilization’ believes it is God’s chosen nation and emodiment of freedom and demoracy.
Hence, they have a moral right to rule the planet against the “barbaric hordes” of the East and Global South.
This psychotic delusion is inbred among Western nations from the grassrooots people up to the elite.
Just look at how many millions of Western bastards proudly proclaimed “I am Charlie Hedbo” over the death of some mediocre satirists, while they are silent or indifferent to the mass death of 100,000s of Iraqis, Afghanis, Syrians, Libyans, and others who are on the receiving of Western covert terrorism and war.
The Sampson Option is in play.
Make no mistake.
Ngoyo, thanks for responding. I believe the internat’l banking cabal is active in the east as well. It continues to greatly hinder Russian development, as the number of rubles that can be issued is tied to the dollar. Both China & Russia are members of IMF & WTO.
I know that China’s debt is 240% of her GDP. To whom does she owe the money? Why didn’t she sell down her US treasury bonds to finance all the infrastructure?
I’m not saying there is anything wrong w all of this, but only that I would like to understand it. In the past Rothschild has had involvement in China and other Asian countries. I wd be surprised if this is not still the case.
The figure you cite for China’s debt to GDP is the total debt, not government or even external debt. Most of this debt is Chinese local governments and individual companies owing money (yuan) to Chinese state-owned commercial banks propped up by Chinese Central Bank. Government dollar reserves could not be used to repay this debt, since it is practically owed to the government, not by the government (and yuan denominated).
CRT, Thank you for a factual response. I must confess that I still don’t understand. You say that China’s local govts & businesses owe 240% of the country’s GDP to the Central govt/central bank. This is sposed to be the reason for their slowdown to a “mere” 7% growth rate.
I guess China’s Central bank must NOT be ruled by the IMF then, because it simply doesn’t allow internal creation of credit like this. But China IS a member of the IMF, so I don’t get it? What prevents Russia from creating its own credit then? According to Starikov’s online book, IMF Central Banks have the power to SUE to compel acquiescence to IMF rules– including the straitjacket on credit creation which makes foreign (Western) investment necessary. http://lit.md/files/nstarikov/rouble_nationalization-the_way_to_russia%27s_freedom.pdf
Modern Monetary Theory encourages creation of one’s own credit, of course, and is the enemy of neoliberal economics.
Penelope: Nothing prevents Russia from creating its own credit. The problem is that Russia needs US dollars to import technology and repay outstanding external debts. Creating rouble credit will not solve this problem.
China in contrast produces most of its investment goods locally and its SOEs mostly borrow dollars from Chinese reserves, which are huge. So China can actually increase investment and expand its economy simply by creating yuan-denominated credit – most of it will be spent on domestically produced goods, some will be exchanged with the government banks for dollars or euro for imports of high-end investment goods. The reason they are slowing down is not because of the debt burden per se, but because the economy has built up too much production capacity. They need to increase domestic consumer spending to catch up with the recent growth of capacity, otherwise any new investment will be very inefficient.
CRT, Thank you, that was helpful. I understand from your ciomments that Russia’s creating her own rubles for internal investment wd not end her need for dollars. Nevertheless it wd help in the general way that increasing the money supply (provided it’s used in the production of goods and services) is used by economic theory.
However, it is my understanding from Starikov and non-Russian economists that the central banks of countries labelled “developing” have their currencies linked to dollar income such that the supply of their domestic currency is inescapably linked to their dollar income. I know that this will sound counter-intuitive to you. This is the international banking cabal’s method to prevent the growth of developing economies.
Neo-liberal economic theory traps countries into borrowing hard currencies when, for the vast majority of uses their own interest-free currency will suffice.
240% is not debt but all credit to GDP. By comparison US 260% Japan 400%. China’s public debt is 30%. More than reasonable.
http://orientalreview.org/2015/03/05/the-male-nuland-and-the-us-central-asian-strategy-i/
Please read this and then comment.
Can someone speak to how this relates to the large-scale military exercises being planned in an ever-expanding area of the US – and now evidently ongoing full-time in Washington state? I am not sure what they are planning – WWIII, a tiny NWO takeover of the people of the US? I suppose if they lose the rest of the world they could plan civil war here. The psychopaths are up to something, it is clear. But what? Any thoughts?
Excellent, concise and cogent depiction of the facts. The Western ‘Exceptionalists’, being the ‘Chosen People’ of God, with a ‘Manifest Destiny’ to rule the world, forever, will NEVER cede hegemony to people they see as ‘mere Asiatics’. They will destroy the world before surrendering their rule over it.
The further back you go in the history of global conflict, it was more of a fight of how the Western powers themselves would carve up their colonies in the South and East. There never was the question of them being colonies or not, but which western power would be lording over them. The two World Wars were to a great degree wars on Russia (especially the 2nd) but also on how the power between the Western Empires would be distributed. Once the US became master and commander of the entire western world, this issue has never really resurfaced since.
The Cold War was the first fully-fledged attempt by coordinated pan-western action to keep Russia and their colonies in the rest of planet subservient.
The recent meteoric rise of China has undermined once again western dominion over the rest of the planet and in a far more fundamental way. Now, no radical and messianic revolutions are required for the oppressed nations to toss away the tyranny of the dollar, but merely building international institutions under the Chinese aegis.
And yes, everything is on the table.
If people would read Andrew Korybko’s investigative reporting on this subject you would read the US still has much mischief to make for both China and Russia within their border states. PCR recently did an article based on this extremely important relevations of new US color relevations planned.
It is way too soon for a nuclear war with all these plans to destrablize Ubekistan and China in the making.
I have the feeling the massive Western media blackout around Kolomoisky’s actions may be related to this vote of the Congress.
Meanwhile, there are signs Kiev might be seeking some accommodation with Kolomoisky: http://offguardian.org/2015/03/24/kiev-gives-ukrnafta-back-to-kolomoisky/
Interestingly, Kolomoikii has recently declared in an interview that if new elections were organized in Novorussia he believed that Zakharchenko and other Novorussian officials would probably be reelected. Such overtures to the Novorussian leadership are a sign that Kolomoiskii is in a tough spot and that he is considering his options.
In a situation such as this, I would imagine Russia and Novorussia wouldn’t mind a gang war between junta oligarchs like this looks to be shaping up to be. If the scum are fighting each other, they cant start a new offensive against Novorussia and will end up weakened and depleted again. Could even start the process of bandera demise with those Ukrainians, fed up with the banderas and their zionazi western handlers, flushing that rubbish down the sewer, and working up something more reasonable, and independent of the zionazis for the Ukraine. In fact, setting up Kolon-moishe to get that ball rolling might not be such a bad idea. ;)
Bot Tak, Good cover for other independence movements, too.
Note to editor;
Event in the Ukraine = Events in the Ukraine
Given the bloodthirsty pic of Kol next to this line; “It sure looks like the freaks are really going to go after each other.’ I would suggest adding, “It sure looks like the freaks are really going to go after each other’s throat.”
That’s just a visual thing.
The essence of life is not in the spelling. Be more thoughtful and less critical.
Peace Out.
I like the grammatical mistakes.
I don’t mind them – but why do you like them? they cause other undestandable (but futile) posting. Ultimately – a waste of time.
I think we understand what the message is mistakes and all. Would Rather have this message with mistakes than nothing.
As I said “I” don’t mind them (and would rather have them than nothing).
“We” do not all appreciate them – therefore more accurate grammar would be beneficial (as this conversation really is a waste of time).
It is an ESL thing. Saker is obviously a brilliant guy, who may have lived in the US for many years, but Russian is his first language (I think). I bet he speaks Russian at home with his family. (Hope I am not way off base here.) I think these mistakes are natural and should be left alone. Besides, to me “going after each other” is common usage and does not need to be changed, though the other could be a bit more descriptive, but both are sufficient.
The Saker has said before that he has no time for spelling/grammar corrections and does not plan to do them or pay attention to suggestions for them. So the discussion in the thread above pro and con is kind of moot.
If you want to be a stickler, it should be Ukraine, not “the Ukraine”.
Read the last paragraphs at /terminology/ to see the Saker’s take on this. THE Ukraine is correct in English, same as THE Netherlands, THE Bahamas etc
He will maybe try to launch his own DNPR 2.0?And fight against Kiev..he also controls Odessa and knows a lot about the massacre of the Union house(he was probably the main sponsor).
Ideal suspect for the West as the Saker says,just put both blames on him:MH 17 and Odessa…
But take care this guy has a lot of connections he controls a good deal of the eurocretins and neocons..
It is little known by the public,but there is..yes…a Jewish Eurocretin Parlement in Brussels(not a joke).
European Jewish Parliament:
The European Jewish Parliament or EJP (formerly known as European Jewish Union or EJU) is a non-governmental organization (NGO) based in Brussels whose stated aim is to be “a uniting structure for all Jewish communities and organizations throughout Western, Eastern and Central Europe.”[1]
The EJU-backed EJP is the brainchild of Ukrainian billionaire Ihor Kolomoyskyi.
Check this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Jewish_Parliament
And on youtube..here is ‘our friend’:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtSBZ6oTYKY
French:
Ce Parlement sera l’un des outils de la nouvelle institution European Jewish Union présidée par Igor Kolomoisky, un homme d’affaires ukrainien qui a beaucoup œuvré pour sa communauté et qui veut rapprocher les communautés juives d’Europe de l’Est de leurs sœurs d’Europe occidentale.
http://ripostelaique.com/communautarisme-un-parlement-europeen-juif-a-bruxelles.html
This guy also have very deep connections in Tel Aviv and with the neocons,probably more than Porochoco.
I guess Obama will support Porochoco with the eurocretins at least some…neocons and euro jewish eurocretins will be on Kolo side.
Interesting fight if any,as usually jews always find a ‘solution’…business is business my brother….(lol) like Dieudo says
Connections to Tel Aviv and Kolomoyskyi involvement in MH17 would join a few dots. Israel kicked off its assault on Gaza at the same time MH17 was shot down.
With the deliberate targeting of UN schools ect under cover of the MH17 shootdown (Lots of Europeans/Anglo’s killed as against “darkies” in Gaza), the two events seem to have a definite connection.
Peter
Yup
So if Washington supports Porochenko and Tel Aviv supports Kolomoisky, is that significant rift between the two? And where do the American zionists stand?
You mean the school where the “UN” sheltered a bunch of hamas terrorists? That false flag is actually real in your mind? Whoa!!!
Just in case you never heard it, HAMAS stands for “hiding among mosques and schools”.
What you also missed is that the Hamas idiots killed dozens of Arabs there in that time – because they didn’t support their terror campaign.
T2015 tells us:
Hamas Baaad
Israel Goood
Christine
Christine
Yup
No, but thanks for putting words into my mouth in your usual trollish way.
Both Hamas and the Israeli masonic elites are handled by the brits and obviously both are criminal enterprises, as anything ever created by the Empire.
Hamas is a british creation and has nothing to do with the Arabs they hold hostage, while posing as some sort of liberators for the cameras.
It is a hard fact that Hamas killed many Arabs last time around, see for example OS Daily site, they covered it in detail.
Just for you, baby ;) (don’t worry, I know your nick is fake and you’re probably some pimply youth in a dark room):
http://osnetdaily.com/2014/08/obama-un-boss-complicit-with-latest-hamas-false-flag-in-unrwa-school/
http://osnetdaily.com/2014/08/self-inflicted-massacre-at-gaza-continues-series-of-hamas-false-flags-exposed/
http://osnetdaily.com/2014/07/false-flag-busted-hamas-murders-25-gazans-blames-it-on-israel/
http://osnetdaily.com/2014/07/obamas-humanitarian-truce-collapses-as-muslim-brotherhood-escalates-gaza-aggression/
And honey (sic), always look at both sides of the coin before you say such stupid things.
The main source for the osnetdaily “articles” T2015 linked is a zionist site run by someone named Aaron Klein. Check this one out that Klein wrote:
OFFICIAL: RUSSIA PLOTTING TO START WAR ON ISRAEL. Plan includes shipping missiles to terrorist groups
Another “article” from that zionist osnetdaily site T2015 is promoting that hosted the kleinonline disinfo:
The Speech Bibi didn’t give: Is Iran planning a nuclear Tsunami bomb for Israel ?
It’s the usual debka toss.
And another:
Iran seizes strategic Yemeni city, closes in on Red sea global oil choke point
Before clicking any links to either the kleinonline or osnetdaily sites, be sure to have a very good anti-virus running.
OSNET is linking news from other sites for the most part. And yes, they are trying to show the OTHER side too, besides the usual left/right propaganda.
Whatever that has to do with the contents of the articles linked above and the related sources/links, which are easily provable.
Also I am sick and tired of your blind hate towards everything and anything jewish, it’s really boring. At least try to differentiate, for example look how Israel treats black african jews or even the orthodox semitic ones. You also don’t hate all Americans just because their 1% leadership are criminals and traitors, or do you?
You are though consequently, completely denying the role of the masonic impostors there and of the british/Vatican vassals – which makes you a propaganda shill in my eyes anyway.
I worked with a young Ethiopian Jew, the Bene Israel, a few months ago. He even wore his yamulka to work. His family left Israel because they were treated like shit.
T2015, Actually re: the way Israeli treats black African Jews–
I understand that Netanyahu was looking for an African country that he could pay to take them.
While there are some midget-minds which are not able to distinguish between “Jewish” and “Zionist”, there are many of us who are able to make the conceptual differentiation.
You’ve got the disinformationist, bang to rights, as the Poms say. A series of palpable hits, sir. I do enjoy his whinging when bested.
T2015 – interesting insight on the source of some of the Gaza casualties. Reminds me of how the priests killed by the Gestapo turned out to be the ones that the bishops did not like.
It must very convenient to dispose of troublesome people and then be allowed to score points in condemnation.
Hamas was run by mossad
I heard that, but never found anything substantial to support it. Surely they will coordinate at some level, being that both are british creations.
You want us all to differentiate between Jews and Zionists…
Yet you lump us all together as ‘brits’…..???
You’re right ! Hamas = Mossad . Israel use Hamas for counter resolutions .
An entirely mendacious apologia for brutal child murder is not a good look. Do you have similar lies for the rest of the 500 Gazan children blown to pieces by your Zionazi buddies?
Oh puh-leese, you won’t come with some purely emotional unrelated nonsense will you? Don’t forget to include some cute little animals too, looks good on TV.
The fact that many died is undisputed, but that does NOT cheange the fact that Hamas killed their own people and that they are always using human shields and hide among such sensitive targets deliberately. Well documented in many many instances, few of them linked above.
I agree that the regime in Israel are crminials, in case you missed that. I even bothered to mention the comparison to americans. But hey, why should you read when you can just parrot your completely unrelated non-points over and over again.
Of course, it would never cross your mind that those Arabs are there because the other arab countries won’t let them in? Starting with Egypt, who close those new tunnels every few weeks. Oh but move on, nothing to see here…
As for brutal child murder, how many have Obama’s drones killed just this week? I guess you don’t know.
You are a hypocrite if I ever saw one.
Bullshit! All the Israeli claims about using schools, hospitals and mosques were unverified. And if you say they are running around civilian neighborhoods, well for a country that is 10 km wide and less than 50 long. Where do you suppose they line up at? Seems the beaches with nothing on them except kids are not safe either.
And please, we saw how the great empire dealt with nothing military about it like sewage plants, restaurants, power plants, news outlets.
Hamas has to live amongst those people who are their brothers, sisters mothers, fathers, wives sons and daughters. You cant provide a single piece o evidence that they have placed civilians in danger other than just by the fact that those shells Israel uses have an error of more than 100 yards and 500 yards in damage. They only need to fire 10 shells to target the entire country.
Again just a bunch of purely emotional nonsense stemming from usual sources like Rense etc. You could at least try to provide something serious or verifiable to talk about.
Suggestion to everybody. T2015 has made it clear they are trolling, ignore it. It, and it’s several co-workers/sockpuppets (such as “old_bill”) post this rubbish to disrupt the site. And only for that purpose.
Bot Tak,
I agree with you 100 %. I saw it right away as soon as he came in this blog.
A Zionist Jew *badly* disguising himself as a “Universalist”.
Anyway, thought you and everybody would find this interesting. It will give you a broader understanding of the “crazies in the basement”.
Gilad Atzmon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ8lIsAjAvk
and a great article…
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2013/12/jewish-defenses-against-criticism/#comments
@ Vot tak: strangely I have the exactly same feeling about you, with your constant repetition of nonsensical nazi propaganda. But hey, whatever makes you feel better.
T1025, “those Arabs are there because the other Arab countries won’t let them in.”
No, T1025, the Palestinians are there cuz they live there & cuz Israel keeps taking more & more of their land.
By your logic it wd be ok for Israel to take half of the US, cuz the rest of the US could offer a home to the displaced.
2015, you are definitely a determined and mendacious apologist for repeated mass child murder. The Zionazi lie that Hamas use civilians as ‘human shields’ has been refuted by journalist eye-witnesses, the UN, UNRWA, the Red Cross, European doctors working in Gazan hospitals and various Western NGOs. On the other hand the use of human shields by your Zionazi buddies is well established. Like the cynically named ‘neighbour procedure’ where the Herrenvolk force Palestinians to enter hazardous places, in case there is an ambush. Or tying children to the front of Jeeps to deter stone-throwers, or forcing a ten year-old boy to search a bag which they feared was booby-trapped. Vicious, racist, murderous (Amnesty Listed twelve entire Gazan families obliterated by the ‘Gods Upon the Earth’ in Gaza for NO military reason whatsoever, just sheer blood-lust. With scores of children blown to pieces by your idols)and utterly mendacious monsters, rightly despised around the world, which suits them, because their anti-goyite hatred only grows and grows.
MM – look buddy, I am the one who actually lost his country to the jihadists and watrched it in real time as YOUR american buddies brought them in. Including many of your “poor arabs” from your Moslem Brotherhood friends in the corner down there, as well as Afghanistan etc.
The mentor of your Egyptian(!!!) terrorist friend Arafat was the very Mufti of Jerusalem who started the moslem nazi brigades in MY fwcking home country in Bosnia. A great personal friend of Adolf Hitler by the way.
Their sons were used to destroy my country again in the 90’s. Those idiots, imported by YOUR friends, killed many of my friends and relatives. My uncle was killed by the jihadists. I LIVED through that reality, you cheap little armchair nazi.
You can sing your song about “poor” Arabs all you want, you can call me names all you want, it’s still all just hot air. You are just stupidly repating your trained bullshit lines, still without any real content.
Since you didn’t even bother trying,. you missed that I linked several of the actual UN reports in the articles above, but hey, it’s easier to just spuot bullshit and hope that noone will ever actually bother checking. Typical shall we say?
You are not just a hypocrite but an outright nazi to boot. I feel really sorry for you, it must be a huge burden being so full of shit and so utterly stupid.
Your vulgar and abusive language does you no credit. I’m well aware of the history of Itzetbegovic as a Nazi, the use of al-Qaeda by the USA in Bosnia and Kosovo, with the KLA drug running terrorists etc, but that doesn’t change the fact that you lie, or stupidly peddle Zionazi lies to exculpate Israel over mass child murder.
We understand this is an emotive subject. You’ve both had a say, both are getting personal, both are asked to desist. Producing facts is a much better argument than name-calling.
Welcome T2015; you’re a person with real experience and apparently sincere passion. Your retorts were well reasoned and I sense you may have a lot of knowledge and perspective to contribute here.
I may not agree with some of your assertions about “masons” etc, due to my ignorance regarding your line of reasoning and associated theories, however I do I agree with you about Hamas: like you, I have “unfortunate” personal experience.
Hamas are part of the Muslim Brotherhood the same group of nuts that turned Egypt into a hellhole for Copts and normal Muslims. When I was down in the middle east on business, I got to know about an orphans/abused children’s charity. I decided to help out and would visit these poor Arab children and make regular contributions. That tipped my taxi driver (who was secretly a Hamas activist) that I had money (actually I’m just middle class but they assumed I had more substantial means). So for my concern and compassion for their Sunni Muslim Arab orphans Hamas was going to reward me by sizing me up for a kidnapping (it’s long story how i slipped their attempt, but it took the intervention of the local mukhabarat).
Hamas are semi-overt islamists, and they are brutal, except to those pedantic armchair theoreticians who’ve never met them.
Thanks. First-hand experience is always the best source.
I’d say all those groups are actually heretics going against the islamic faith, since even Mohammed himself tried to live in peace with the other groups back then in Medina, including some jewish tribes. The first Umma was not islamic at all, it was mixed.
But take care this guy has a lot of connections he controls a good deal of the eurocretins and neocons..
In order for them to “to take care” of him they have to “take him out” nicely, so that he does not talk inapropriately.
:)
Жељко из Крајине
Also yup. I doubt Kolon-moishe has a Masada complex.
And this is his Ukranian partner with whom he founded the EJP. Vadim Rabinovich, an Ukrainian businessman, politician, president of the All-Ukrainian Jewish Congress and leader of the Center political party, a presidential candidate in the elections of 2014, deputy of Ukraine VIII convocation of the Opposition Bloc.
Also a big media agent in Ukraine.
Israeli MPs visit Jews in Ukraine march 14, 2014
March 19, 2014 Vadim Rabinovich, Co-Chairman of the European Jewish Parliament, and a Chief Rabbi of Ukraine Moshe Reuven Asman, member of the European Jewish Parliament, met with the representatives of the Israeli government in Kiev. These days a delegation of Knesset, including such well-known in Ukraine politicians as Faina Kirschenbaum, Deputy Minister of Internal Affairs, Ze’ev Elkin, Chairman of the Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee and a deputy Alex Miller, is scheduled to hold meetings in Kiev and Kharkov. They represent a group in the Knesset, which is actively engaged in strengthening ties with the Jewish diaspora. In particular, all three politicians are frequent guests in Ukraine, they have a great influence on the development of Ukrainian-Israeli relations as at the level of states, so as in personal contact with Jewish leaders in Ukraine.
Conflating the “… overtures to the Novorussian leadership …” with “… a thug whose net worth is estimated at 1.3 billion dollars …” leads to wild thought that Kolomoiskii might even try to bribe someone in the Novorussian camp… Probably too far fetched…
@ Johan,
Nothing would be “far fetched” when it comes to Kolomoiskii. Nothing. Not a thing.
The man has sold his soul to the Devil by murdering innocent people.
What’s a bribe to him? Think about it.
Regards,
Carmel by the Sea
I agree.
Bribe them to do what?
Republic fighting groups have had substantial support form several Russian oligarchs, with no visible changes in their activities in favour of those oligarchs. They also have a lot of dealings with their local oligarch Akhmetov, and he is NOT the one with the upper hand in that relationship.
So what could Kolomoisky bribe anyone to do? and what can any one individual do now, in the well organised and fairly united Novorissiyan leadership?
Kat Kan,
I agree with what you say. However, Kolomoiskii WOULD at least *try*.
The man has NO moral brakes.
He could sell them guns though big guns like the one’s that came off the plane from NATO probably on a Canadian Hercules. That would be a good thing and they could help smuggle him into a Russian prison where he belongs lol.
No they have to stick with Porko the US does temporarily until he completely implodes Kolo has too much money his own bank and own army. Defections of other governor’s are already taking place they all want their own little army as well they should they need the protection. This is going to go hot…and Joe Biden’s people work for Kolo’s gas company remember they could hold him hostage…
I would suggest Putin call Washington and tell them to get their advisor’s out now and Joe Jr and Co included before another Saigon helicopter scene is spread all over the global television screens. Now that scene leaving Vietnam like that is imbricated into the national consciousness of the American people even idiots like Obama get that. That will shake him right to the core.
I suspect the only thing keeping the southern militia’s and the regular Ukraine army from joining together declaring martial law and straightening out the country, ie putting that junta behind bars, are those America advisors — maybe just let a little more bloodshed and anarchy go down before making the call, and get them yanks out.
The Southern fighters have always spoken with respect for the regular forces and of their bravery so they know they are real soldiers not fascist biker gang thugs. Then they could go about healing Ukraine and stopping the bloodshed, to hell with all the oligarch and corporations that think they have this or that coming, bad bet they lose. Set Ukraine up as a buffer state between east and west that can profit from both and get on it’s feet the way Putin suggested in the first place
So you got that Kremlin know what to say — Saigon rooftop fleeing helicopters. They will react to that as sure as the night is long.
Who knows what that demonic Kolomoiskii has up his Satan’s sleeve.
God help the innocent people in Dnepropetrovsk this Wednesday. This man has no moral brakes, no loyalty to his country ( ok well maybe some to Israel) and no control of himself in public with that foul mouth of his. Geez! so much wealth, travelling the world and it did nothing to polish his natural crude and foul public manners.
IMO….he is an *extremely* psychologically unhinged and dangerous murderer with a very evil soul. The look in his eyes tells you will stop at nothing!!!
What a loathing man. Reminds me of Satanyahu. * crosses herself*
Carmel by the Sea
One certainly hopes that in reference to the incipient Poroshenko vs. Kolomoiskii war, the leaders of Novorossiya concur that the saying “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” most certainly does NOT apply.
Wel, the Dutch can’t hold back their MH17 investigation much longer (and the UK black box recordings must be dynamite to be publicly suppressed thus far). Add various Ukrainian atrocities and the recent murder at the walls of the Kremlin plus a failed state economy at the end of its viability (gas purchases on a weekly basis and currency in free fall) and you have the need for a fall-guy. The canibals begin their work — $1.3b will make a nice meal or three until the next injection is needed. Actually my gut feel is Poroshenko is playing his last card and he’s likely to exit stage left in one of his chocolate boxes in due course.
The MH17 investigation is now delayed till dec 2015 at the earliest(it was oct last time,and june even before).
Anonymous:
The MH17 black box flight telemetry data was released in the preliminary report. The cockpit voice recorder transcript was not released, but the records of Dnipro and Rostov ATC were. MH17 made no recorded distress call per all available data, and the blackboxes immediately ceased recording.
There is an obvious conclusion to that immediately known to anyone familiar with the history of airliner shootdowns. MH17 was hit by massive amounts of shrapnel and the concussive blast from a large surface to air missile and the flow of electricty and communications data from the electronics bay under the cockpit to the recorders in the tail, as well as the capability of the cockpit radios to broadcast any message was immediately and permanently disrupted while the plane suffered catastrophic decompression. There are six relevant airliner shootdowns of pressurized aircraft at cruising altitude since 1955 – El Al 402, Libyan Arab Airlines 114, KAL 902, KAL 007, Iran Air 655, Siberian Air 1812.
The first four were shot down by interceptor fighter aicraft. All four planes were able to descend in a relatively controlled manner and continue flying after being hit by air to air missiles and gunfire. KAL 902 was hit by R60 air to air missiles and was able to make an emergency landing with minimal loss of life after flying for 40 minutes.
The last two were hit by powerful surface to air missiles (an SM-2MR and an S-200 respectively). The airliners were immediately disabled just like MH17, the pilots were unable to make distress calls or control the planes in any way, just like MH17, and everyone on board died either in the explosion or in the crash.
People can go on believing if they wish, unlike any previous airliner shootdown by interceptor aircraft, about ground attack SU25’s acting as aerial interceptors and using some sort of coordinated weaponry attack of R60’s and anti-tank gatling guns that disables the aircraft’s structure, flight systems and pilots but somehow, although designed for piercing thick tank armor, manages to only pierce one side of the thin aluminum skin of the Boeing 777 (see pictures of the left side of the cabin at the link below which show no bullet or shrapnel holes on the left side of the aircraft other than the right side of the roof and intact glass cockpit windows even after the crash), but the evidence really isn’t there for such an event.
http://nos.nl/artikel/2004822-cockpit-van-mh17-boeing-gebrogen.html
There is also an image of the recovered skin of the aircraft behind this side of the cockpit in that link, again showing almost no shrapnel or bullet holes on the right side of the airplane. The obvious conclusion is that MH17 was hit by high energy projectiles that moved longitudinally along the right side of the aircraft due to relative movement of both the airplane and the projectile “cloud”. There isn’t a reasonable trajectory for this to have been bullets to cause the damage seen. There is for a SAM. A SAM approached the aircraft from some angle from the front right and exploded above the aircraft (because the rocket fuel is spent by the time of interception, so it was cruising but dropping with the effect of gravity from above the aircraft) as the two systems intersected, leading to massive damage to the left front of the aircraft as it passed through the shrapnel cloud, as well as more minor damage to the engine nacelles. The shrapnel trajectories in the cockpit would be influenced by the relative motions of the plane (900 km/h forward), the missile (3000+/- km/h probably at around 2 o’clock if 12 o’clock is towards the tail when looking towards the plane), and the warhead shrapnel (various radial directions at 2000++ km/h).
All evidence points to either a BUK M-1 system (NATO SA-11 designation) or possibly a S-125 Pechora system (Nato SA-3) being the weapon (American AWACS detected SA-3 radar signals on July 17), and that the system detonated above and to the left of the airplane. This is not to say there may not have been Ukrainian attack aircraft in the sky that day (possibly using MH17 as a shield or to attract fire towards it or even using it as a mock target), or that the NAF is guilty of the shootdown (Ukrainian Armed Forces were conducting air defense exercises throughout Donbass explictly as part of their so-called ATO on the days before and the day when the shootdown occurred – see Ukrainian TV images of these exercises in video link below at 4:49-4:55 mark).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3MomxNHnUA
People need to be open to the truth of actual physical evidence and stop chasing chimeras. Far more would have been accomplished in independent investigations of MH17 by focusing on the extent of the aircraft debris field and likely ballistic trajectories of the aircraft material falling from the sky to delimit potential launch areas of the missile based on missle firing and detection range.
From everything I read a ground launched rocket seems very unlikely as no witnesses in a well-populated area saw the long smoke trail which would have been visible for up to 20 minutes and from a theoretical radius (limited by atmospheric dust/water vapor) of over 100 miles at 32,000 feet.
Furthermore the massive BUK is out because the “H” shaped shrapnel is both larger than the holes shown in the wreckage and causes elongated diamond shaped holes -none of which are apparent in photos of MH17 wreckage.
As I have written previously ad nauseam here, visual and forensic metallurgical analysis of shrapnel/cannon shell smears and chemical traces both in the wreckage and autopsies (pilots especially) would have shown the weapon(s) used. Within a couple of days at most.
None are so blind as those who refuse to see -it is blindingly obvious that the MH17 saga is one big cover-up.
SanctuaryOne:
With all due respect, it was a cloudy day, so a vapor trail wouldn’t necessarily be visible or obvious all over. One would also need to interview witnesses in the correct place to find someone claiming to see it. There have been accounts published in the press with people who claimed to have witnessed missile launches like this around this time. Reuters just published a piece like this. The major population centers you speak of are at least 4-5 miles from the various proposed launch sites. Its unlikely they would have heard anything more than a distant rumble, and it would have been strictly chance that anyone noticed a distant missile launch and figured out what was going on. You can’t hear takeoffs from an airport at that distance, and planes flying directly overhead only emit a low rumble audible to the ground if at lower altitudes. People in an urban area with the sounds of a town or city around them would be unlikely to notice anything from a launch or a missile flying overhead at 40-50,000 ft., especially after its 20 second burn during launch when it makes little noise.
There has never been a passenger airliner blown out of the sky instantaneously by either machine gun fire or even multiple heavy air-to-air missile (for example, KAL 007 was shot with two K-8 air-to-air missile with a 40 kg warhead [10 times larger than the R60 warhead] and continued to fly for 12 minutes).
The chariman of the Dutch Safety Board already dismissed the idea that the plane was hit by bullets back in December after examinations were made of the wreckage gathered from the site in November, confirming it was hit by fragments.
Lastly, every government with satellite and signals intelligence capability has stated it was downed by a BUK missile (US, UK, Germany, and Russia, also Ukraine, which does not have sattelites but obviously knows what was happening militarily there). The Americans immediately stated with Siberian Air 1812 that it was downed by a SAM in 2001 – we know what they are capable of detecting.
Regardless for whether it was downed by Ukrainians, the Kolomoisky Private Army, NAF Rebels, or whoever, the primary responsibility lies on the government of Ukraine, which was the one conducting a war using aerial combat operations against its own people, and it is the government of Ukraine that will ultimately legally owe compensation to the victims, seeing as the events happened within its airspace and with its military hardware.
We don’t need to make up fantasy stories like the Junta does to deflect blame from itself about Russia sneaking BUK’s over the border.
Andrew
Lastly, every government with satellite and signals intelligence capability has stated it was downed by a BUK missile (US, UK, Germany, and Russia, also Ukraine, which does not have sattelites but obviously knows what was happening militarily there).
When did the Russian government claim the airliner was downed by a Buk missile?
BOT TAK:
In the MOD presentation on 7/21 when they exposed the locations and satellite photos of the Ukrainian BUK radar and firing positions on 7/17 and demanded an inventory of Ukrainian BUK missiles and asked what the Ukrainians had learned, if anything, from their previous downing of Siberian 1812.
Not true that Russians said MH17 was downed by BUK missile. They DID say that they detected the use by Kiev forces of the radar component of BUK missile (I think in 2 different locations). It wd be usual to help the fighters pinpoint the airliner w ground-based radar.
And Russia did detect the fighters close to the airliner.
Andrew
In the MOD presentation on 7/21 when they exposed the locations and satellite photos of the Ukrainian BUK radar and firing positions on 7/17 and demanded an inventory of Ukrainian BUK missiles and asked what the Ukrainians had learned, if anything, from their previous downing of Siberian 1812.
That is not the same as the Russian government saying a Buk shot the plane down, which is what you claimed. From what I’ve seen, the Russian government has refrained from stating any certainty about the specific cause of the shootdown. Can you source a Russian government statement saying they think the airliner was definitely downed by a Buk?
BOT TAK:
Already on 7/18/14, the Russian MOD was releasing evidence regarding extensive BUK operations underway by Ukraine.
http://sputniknews.com/world/20140718/191010193.html
The 7/21/14 MOD presentation only presented a single plausible scenario – downing by a BUK M1 owned by Ukraine and positioned at Zakharoshenske. They did not state it directly, but there was no other conclusion to be drawn from the material presented.
This conclusion was reinforced by their presentation on 7/30/14 below:
http://eng.mil.ru/en/analytics.htm
This was recently reinforced by Major General Igor Konashenkov, Russia’s Defense Ministry spokesman regarding the detection of Buk M1 warhead fragments at the crash site, where he clearly states that contrary to western press reports these fragments are from missiles only used by Ukraine.
http://www.interfax.ru/russia/431042
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:b1wu_alKKqgJ:https://meduza.io/en/news/2015/03/20/russian-defense-ministry-says-media-are-lying-about-the-mh17-crash%2BRussian+Ministry+of+Defense+mH17+video&hl=en&gbv=2&&ct=clnk
Penelope:
The Russian MOD presented evidence of 9 Ukrainian Buk-M1 locations in service on 7/17 in Donetsk and Lugansk Oblasts, not 2, including 4 Kupol radars active at a fire control vehicle. Each location had multiple launch vehicles (at least a TEL and a TELAR).
The Ukrainian SU25 fighter was detected on radar at 5 km elevation and climbing and around 4km distance behind MH17 and only around 60-90 seconds after the impact (specifically 17:21:35 Moscow time). Prior to that time it was below 5 km and thus not on civilian ATC radar.
http://www.mid.ru/brp_4.nsf/0/ECD62987D4816CA344257D1D00251C76
Eyewitnesses interviewed by BBC specificially said this plane was below MH17, just like the radar tape, not at 33,000 ft.
Andrew
I looked at the links you posted from eng.mil.ru, interfax and meduza.io. None of these support what you write, nor what you claim about about what they say. This is worse than the disinfo you previously posted. Outright misrepresentation of the sources you claimed,IE: deliberate lying. Just more pindo rubbish spam, JFC, have you no pride? No sense of morality? I’m tired of this Catholic-pindo/hasbara BS. It’s late, though, I’ll demolish your duplicitous crap tomorrow or on friday.
BOT TAK:
Given that we know that the Russian MOD knows exactly what happened on 7/17 through its military radar, civilian ATC, satellites and signals intelligence, I would welcome any evidence from the Russian MOD you can provide that states something other than a shootdown by a Ukrainian BUK.
I don’t know why you and others are so adverse to this conclusion. There seems to be a pavlovian association of the word BUK with the NAF rebels.
The three previous shootdowns by the Russian military and its allies were immediately owned up to – KAL 902 and 007, and El Al 402. On the other hand, the Ukrainians tried to cover up Siberian Air 1812.
His reliance on the veracity of the US, UK, German and Ukrainian regimes is touching. If the evidence of a Russian BUK used by the resistance was open and shut, these recidivist liars and hypocrites would have been shouting the odds immediately. The idea that ‘cloud cover’ somehow stops one seeing a missile vapour trail from the ground to the sky, is very inventive, too. Ludicrous, but inventive.
There is so much that is misleading that I don’t know where to start.
Assuming 3 things, namely MH17 was shot down, the pictures of MH17 wreckage are not fake and the video of burning wreckage way in the distance and associated sky are associated with MH17 and are credible:
Firstly you have ignored the visual evidence of shrapnel holes, particularly perfectly circular ones that don’t match the heavy BUK shrapnel elongated tears which are also much larger.
The BUK is a massive rocket weighing over 1,500 lbs, that is 18′ long and reaches Mach 3. There is no ‘vapour trail’, it is powered by a solid propellent that will leave a long white trail of particles. Think Morton-Thiokol and space shuttle boosters. The noise is deafening and guess what noise also happens going through Mach 1? Check out the BUK launches on Youtube.
The sky was clear blue with only scattered high clouds and there would be hundreds of potential witnesses in the flat agricultural lands and towns within the visible and audible area. Nobody heard or saw a thing other than the miltary jets and the explosions.
MH17 was at 32,000′ not 40-50,000′. The KA-8 missile exploded 160′ behind KAL 007 so comparing warhead explosive weight is not too relevant; the plastic explosive that brought the Lockerbie Boeing 747 down was estimated at 12 to 16 ounces, infra-red seeking air-to-air missiles home on engines have small charges and typically have expanding welded rods rather than shrapnel. Commercial jet engines on pods are designed to contain ruptured fan blades etc. so unless fragments penetrated the fuselage, explosive decompression would not happen unless and until the wing tore off the fuselage.
“There has never been a passenger airliner blown out of the sky instantaneously by either machine gun fire”
List the number of attempts made, otherwise the statement is meaningless.
Also we are not talking about machine-gun fire, the Su-25 or SU-27 would have much heavier 20 or 30mm cannon with armour piercing or explosive tips.
MH17 didn’t ‘blow out of the sky instantaneously’ as it flew for some time before completely disintegrating.
You are citing those countries (US, UK, Germany and Holland) that imposed sanctions on Russia right after MH17 as having credible evidence and also Ukraine??? Really? Russia showed their satellite data.
We now learn that the USA had a satellite overhead at the time. Where’s the US satellite info?
Where are the MH17 wreckage independent forensic analyses?
Where’s the gas chromatograph report identifying the explosive? Where’s the metallurgical analysis of cannon shells or shrapnel? Where are the autopsy reports?
Delay after delay.
Where is your reference that Russia said MH17 was downed by a BUK? Fox news?
It is one big cover up and it stinks.
Sanctuary One:
visual evidence of shrapnel holes, particularly perfectly circular ones that don’t match the heavy BUK shrapnel
There are a variety of holes in the fuselage and engine nacelles. Most of them are irregularly elongated and not perfectly round.
BUK is a massive rocket weighing over 1,500 lbs, that is 18′ long and reaches Mach 3 … powered by a solid propellent that will leave a long white trail of particles. Think Morton-Thiokol and space shuttle boosters. The noise is deafening … Check out the BUK launches on Youtube.
BUK is not a massive rocket. It is tiny (although not as tiny as an R60). A massive rocket is an ICBM or a space launch rocket. My grandfather built the NASA mission control building at Cape Canaveral and we have family property very close nearby. I’ve witnessed a number of launches from a distance of 8 miles, including the Space Shuttle. It is certainly spectacular, and you’d be hard pressed to miss it at night when it lights up the sky, but it is not deafening and there is no sonic boom that you hear. I’m sure BUK is loud if you are right next to it, but as soon as you move away, the noise falls off very quickly for something so small.
The sky was clear blue with only scattered high clouds
Other than the single Ukrainian SBU photo of a BUK on a lowboy in Torez on 7/17, I have yet to see a photo of anywhere in the region that day showing anything but an overcast or heavily cloud covered sky. During the day the clouds were a variety of either stratus, cumulonimbus, or cumulus clouds, which are low clouds between 5,000 and 20,000 ft. in base elevation. This is public information available in all of the videos and photos of the day as well as satellite imagery of the weather system. Anyone who would claim that (1) separatists could see MH17 at 33,000 ft. through the clouds (Ukrainian SBU’s fake audio tapes “Birdie coming towards you”), (2) that they saw an aerial combat operation at 33,000 ft., (3) that they saw the plane explode at 33,000 ft. is lying or deluded.
flat agricultural lands and towns
If you try using Google Earth and look at the terrain elevation read out, you will see the land between Yenakieve and Saur Mogila is anything but flat. The terrain varies from 450 ft. to nearly 1000 ft. The town of Torez, for example, varies from 500 ft. to 850 ft.
MH17 was at 32,000′ not 40-50,000′.
BUK missile only has fuel for 20 second burn. For a long distance interception at high elevations, it relies on a ballistic trajectory where it is shot above the level of the target and then “falls” on top of it. Think of shooting artillery at the top of Mt. Everest. BUK is shot at a target like MH17 where range is 25 km and elevation 10 km. BUK moves at around 0.68 km per second. It would be shot to hit an elevation of 14 km at a range of around 5 km for its 20 second burn. It would then glide at speed for 20 km for a duration of 29 seconds while falling due to the effects of gravity at an ever increasing rate. In 29 seconds, gravity would accelerate it to 284 km/s downward, and average 142 km/s velocity during the duration of flight. In 29 seconds, this would cause a loss of altitude of 4 kilometers which places it at the level of its target. 14 km = 45,000 ft.
Also worth noting, such a trajectory would not take the missile over a populated area from any proposed launch site before its engine burned out, and the final seconds of burn where it is near a populated area would be at extreme altitude. No one would necessarily have noticed anything except people immediately near the launch site.
unless fragments penetrated the fuselage, explosive decompression would not happen unless and until the wing tore off the fuselage.
Why would decompression be explosive? Passenger airliners have lost whole sections of fuselage in flight and not broken apart. A few holes in the forward airframe would not cause disintegration.
“There has never been a passenger airliner blown out of the sky instantaneously by either machine gun fire” List the number of attempts made, otherwise the statement is meaningless.
I provided you the list. El Al 402 in 1955 and Libyan Arab Airlines 114 in 1973 were shot down with 20 mmm cannon fire. El Al 402 (a Lockheed Constellation) structurally failed at 2000 ft. as the pilots attempted to control it and crashed. Libyan 114 crash landed under semi-controlled flight with 5 survivors.
not talking about machine-gun fire, the Su-25 or SU-27 would have much heavier 20 or 30mm cannon
The referenced planes were hit with 20 mm cannon fire.
MH17 didn’t ‘blow out of the sky instantaneously’ as it flew for some time before completely disintegrating
The plane broke apart at elevation. The cockpit fell southwest of Rozsypne, the body, wings, engine, and tail glided to a crash at Hrabove 7 km away. That would only be possible with total structural failure at a very high elevation.
Russia showed their satellite data.
Yes, of Ukrainian BUK missile launchers in position where they could shoot down MH17.
Andrew,
Thanks for the condescending lecture on cloud types -I am a pilot.
“Why would decompression be explosive?”, you ask? Answer: altitiude; check out the effect of less than 1 lb of explosive on the Lockerbie 747.
You might get better traction with your ‘specious’ arguments on Twitter -as you can see from the rebuttals you are wasting your time here.
I am really tired of your efforts to distract and discredit. e.g. ‘There are a variety of holes in the fuselage’
Yes, no kidding, and whereas a few might just match the 1,500 cubes in a BUK warhead, none match the large size and shape of the other 4,500 ‘I-beam/ H shaped shrapnel that a BUK contains. End of story. End of discussion.
Sanctuary One:
If you are a pilot, then you should know how to look up weather imagery for a date in the past. You claimed on 7/17 it was a clear blue sky with only scattered clouds. Show us!
The Lockerbie bombing blew a 20″ hole in the aircraft (not 20 mm), and more critically, blew up the navigation and communication system, rendering the plane out of control. MH17 was similarly crippled by an explosion above and to the left side of the cockpit, exactly where you would expect a BUK missile to explode. Note as evidence the extensive shredding of that side of the cockpit with almost no damage to the right side (as I noted, even the glass windows were still intact on the right side), and also singe marks and soot on the paint.
Regarding shrapnel holes, what pictures are you looking at? In the famous photo of the left side of the cockpit, there is a clear H-shaped hole right in the middle of the red stripping to the right of the window as you look at it. There are also H shaped holes in the engine cowling. A number of pieces of debris show rectangular shrapnel holes. Photos here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/128537380@N08/
and here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/podpolkovnikvvs/sets/
and here:
http://nos.nl/artikel/2004822-cockpit-van-mh17-boeing-geborgen.html
and here:
http://www.whathappenedtoflightmh17.com/overview-of-damage-seen-on-mh17-debris/
“If you are a pilot, then you should know how to look up weather imagery for a date in the past.”
Quite the patronising comment. But there’s a problem.
Pilots look at weather forecasts to determine take-off, en-route and particularly destination, conditions. Present and future weather and trends especially are all that matter; what the weather was doing yesterday is of little or no relevance.
Andrew
The first four were shot down by interceptor fighter aicraft. All four planes were able to descend in a relatively controlled manner and continue flying after being hit by air to air missiles and gunfire. KAL 902 was hit by R60 air to air missiles and was able to make an emergency landing with minimal loss of life after flying for 40 minutes.
There has never been a passenger airliner blown out of the sky instantaneously by either machine gun fire or even multiple heavy air-to-air missile (for example, KAL 007 was shot with two K-8 air-to-air missile with a 40 kg warhead [10 times larger than the R60 warhead] and continued to fly for 12 minutes).
That is a rather disingenuous sweeping statement that distorts the facts. In both the KAL airliner attacks, the missiles exploded quite a distance from the fuselage. In the KAL 902, by the outer wing – which was blown off. The missiles in the KAL 007 attack exploded some 50 metres to the rear of the aircraft. In both cases, the cockpit was not damaged. Furthermore, the damage to KH17 shows a close dispersal of shrapnel damage. This means the warhead exploded relatively close by. A very different situation from the KAL attacks.
Your assumption that because the A-A missiles have smaller warheads than S-A missiles they couldn’t have disabled MH17 the way it was, is also disingenuous since warhead size means little in comparison to how far away the explosion is. The cockpit shows damage from a close by explosion, not a distant one. Close up, even an ordinary hand grenade (with a charge measured in g, not kg) could kill the pilots and cause substantial damage to the cockpit. On the other hand, a large warhead (such as a Buk) exploding close by, as the shrapnel pattern indicates, would probably do more substantial damage.
From last year:
Detailed MH17 damage discussion, lack of Buk sightings
This includes links to detailed photos of the damage and a map showing dispersal of the parts of the downed airliner, as well speculation to what happened after the missile strikes. Also a linked video showing Buk launches.
Nearby Ukraine fighters and comparision with KAL 902 R-60 damage.
Includes speculation about the attack tactics against MH17 and analysis of KAL 902 damage with linked photos.
It has not been definitively determined exactly what types of aircraft were detected near MH17. The one closest to MH17 was reported as of the size of a Su-25, so it could have also been the similarly sized MiG-29. That also means the type of A-A missile used could have been a R-27 or R-73.
it was a cloudy day, so a vapor trail wouldn’t necessarily be visible or obvious all over. One would also need to interview witnesses in the correct place to find someone claiming to see it. There have been accounts published in the press with people who claimed to have witnessed missile launches like this around this time. Reuters just published a piece like this. The major population centers you speak of are at least 4-5 miles from the various proposed launch sites. Its unlikely they would have heard anything more than a distant rumble, and it would have been strictly chance that anyone noticed a distant missile launch and figured out what was going on. You can’t hear takeoffs from an airport at that distance, and planes flying directly overhead only emit a low rumble audible to the ground if at lower altitudes. People in an urban area with the sounds of a town or city around them would be unlikely to notice anything from a launch or a missile flying overhead at 40-50,000 ft., especially after its 20 second burn during launch when it makes little noise.
Again, an ingenuous argument. The area is a mix of rural and small towns and fully inhabited throughout. People would have simply had to look up to see what was happening, not scan the distant horizon. Also, since it is a rural area, plenty of people would have been outside working. Being a rural area, sound carries further than in a city or busy town. And since there was a war going on, they would have been paying attention to aircraft and any other potential threat, like war sounds, given the junta’s regular air and artillery attacks on civilians. Not only would a Buk launch have been seen by many, it would also have been heard.
At the time I saw media interviews claiming they heard and saw a fighter aircraft, hearing two explosions. Did not see any interview where people say they saw a missile launch. Perhaps you can source credible interviews with locals that claim to have seen a Buk launch (reuters is not a credible source regarding this, or any other Ukrainian/Novorussian/Russian subject).
Lastly, your use of manipulative language:
There is an obvious conclusion to that immediately known to anyone familiar with the history of airliner shootdowns…People can go on believing if they wish…All evidence points to…We don’t need to make up fantasy stories, etc
Phrases like those were used throughout your comments. These are manipulative phrases used to preempt disagreement and influence people’s thinking. IE: debate tricks intended to influence the discussion away from critical analysis and towards blind acceptance of the writer’s views.
BOT TAK:
The Russian MOD stated it was an SU25, which is good enough for me to believe, and that it was first detected 90 seconds after the incident when it rose above 5000 m and that it was around 4 km behind MH17. Its highly implausible that a ground attack aircraft that has a slower cruising speed than the Boeing 777 was able to fire machine guns at the plane from that distance, hit the cockpit, and instantaneously disable the plane.
Remember, no distress call was made, the black boxes immediately stopped recording and the plane immediately began losing altitude and airspeed on radar. It broke up at high altitude, with its cockpt severing from the body of the aircraft at a great height and distance seeing as the two parts fell 5 miles apart. The cockpit fell at a ballistic trajectory from 6 miles of altitude while the main body of the plane stayed intact and fell with some lift still possible and a forward a speed of 200 km/h.
The people interviewed were near the crash site. They wouldn’t have been anywhere near the missile launch site. I’m familiar with rural areas. 15 miles is the distance between the small town my father’s family comes from and the third small town down the road. Its highly improbable anything can be heard or noticed at that distance.
The MOD never stated there was a fighter plane at altitude with MH17. They asked why it was near the plane.
The R60 is an expanding rod warhead, not a fragmentation warhead. MH17 was not hit by wire rods.
BOT TAK:
You might find this interesting, re: “Reuters is not a credible source”
http://rt.com/news/245141-reuters-witness-misreport-mh17/#.VRkS1faFp7g.twitter
The man stands by his comments that Ukraine fired a BUK, but disavows their claims of off-camera comments.
Andrew on March 30, 2015 · at 10:40 am UTC
You’re sitting on the thread. How is the weather in Langley?
BOT TAK:
Re: Weather in Langley.
I live in Pennsylvania. I wouldn’t know.
Really you are better than this. I don’t know why you can’t take the thought of my seeing the evidence differently than you.
While Pennsylvania at one time was probably the most enlightened colonies, IE: Ben Franklin and the Quakers, currently it is one of the most disgustingly bigoted and corrupt regions of the USA.
US Imprisoned Activist Mumia Abu-Jamal Hospitalized – Reports
Noelle Hanrahan, a friend of Abu-Jamal and director of PrisonRadio.org, told Philadelphia Magazine that at about 1:00PM on Monday afternoon Abu Jamal was taken to Schuylkill Medical Center in Pottsville, Penn. Hanrahan and others on social media are encouraging supporters to call the prison’s officials to urge them to allow visitations by his family.
The hospitalization has supporters especially concerned as it has coincided with arguments in federal court over the so-called “mental-anguish” law which Abu-Jamal and others have challenged as a violation of First Amendment rights to free speech.
The law is supposed to allow crime victims or their families to bring civil injunctions against offenders if their behavior perpetuates mental anguish for the victims. It has been dubbed by opponents as the “Silence Mumia” law, as it was drafted and passed just two weeks after Abu-Jamal delivered a pre-recorded commencement speech at Vermont’s Goddard College.
Abu-Jamal is serving a life sentence for the 1981 killing of Philadelphia police officer Daniel Faulkner. Until 2012, he was on death row, awaiting execution but was taken off after many years of appeals and legal challenges to the conviction.
In February, Abu-Jamal gave Sputnik his first interview following a stint in solitary confinement, in which he said that African-Americans are “living in hell.”
“We don’t have ‘equal rights,’” he said. “We have the rhetoric of equal rights used by the elites and the state to camouflage the real situation of Black Americans — one of dire, unremitting hell. Equal rights would not produce the glaringly unequal outcomes that lead to mass incarceration, poverty and death.”
Read the full interview here.
Philly Begins Posting Anti-Muslim Ads with Hitler on Public Transportation
SEPTA, or the South Eastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority, the agency that runs the rapid transit and bus service in Philadelphia and the surrounding suburbs, has decided not to appeal a federal court ruling on a controversial bus ad.
The black and white ads say “Jew Hatred: It’s in the Quran” and features a picture of a 1941 meeting between Adolf Hilter and Hajj Amin al-Husseini, a Palestinian Arab nationalist who was known for radio shows supporting the Nazis.
As early as next week, the ad will start appearing on 84 SEPTA buses and run for a month.
But a cool place for some, evidently…
BOT TAK:
Sorry, what do weird Jewish transit ads and a convicted cop-murderer have to do with me? And about Mumia, you do realize he was shot by the policeman he murdered by shooting him in the back, and found lying in a pool of his own blood with the murder weapon he owned next to him? What are you trying to convince me of regarding him? He was innocent and framed?
Andew, there WERE holes in both sides of the cockpit skin. Also the trajectory of the aircraft cannon need not have been straight across the cockpit, you know.
No one saw or heard a ground to air missile or its plume.
People saw parts of aircraft and bodies still falling, so couldn’t have overlooked plume. They saw fighters, didn’t see plume. It doesn’t get more obvious than that.
Four countries say they will not release the investigation report, including Ukraine! And they’ve excluded Malaysia, whose plane it was, from the investigation. They will not release the pilot’s autopsy showing what he was hit with. I should think that wd indicate Ukraine’s guilt to any reasonable person.
Penelope:
Andew, there WERE holes in both sides of the cockpit skin.
Can you point where these holes are in the right side of the cockpit other than the roof? Photos of it here in Ukraine undergoing salvage:
http://nos.nl/artikel/2004822-cockpit-van-mh17-boeing-geborgen.html
And here in Netherlands (scroll down) undergoing reconstruction:
http://censor.net.ua/resonance/328926/porajayuschie_elementy_rossiyiskoyi_rakety_bukm12_kotoraya_sbila_malayiziyiskiyi_boing_mh17_eksklyuzivnyyi
Also the trajectory of the aircraft cannon need not have been straight across the cockpit, you know.
The trajectory had to follow the trajectory of the holes in the skin of the aircraft to make the holes. Also, if it was from in front, the pilots would have presumably seen another plane coming towards them.
No one saw or heard a ground to air missile or its plume.
That is a very broad categorical statement. To make it true, you would need to interview a few hundred thousand people living in the area around Torez. What is your evidence for it?
People saw parts of aircraft and bodies still falling, so couldn’t have overlooked plume. They saw fighters, didn’t see plume. It doesn’t get more obvious than that.
You do realize you are talking about three geographic locations in rolling terrain separated by around 15 miles? The launch point is alleged by all parties to be somewhere south or west of the road H21. The crash site is to the north in Hrabove, and the point of the shootdown is to the west on a ballistic trajectory from the crash site. Those three points are located at elevations of 600 to 800 ft. In between is a forested rise with a ground elevation of 950 ft. People near the launch point were nowhere near the place where the missile hit the plane. People near where the missile hit the plane were not near the crash site.
Also, the day of the crash was overcast with only patches of clear sky as seen in weather records and numerous videos and photos. The cloud cover was beneath the cruising altitude of the plane, so the plane was not seen in flight or when it was hit.
And they’ve excluded Malaysia, whose plane it was, from the investigation.
Malaysia and Russia are part of the investigative team.
They will not release the pilot’s autopsy showing what he was hit with. I should think that wd indicate Ukraine’s guilt to any reasonable person.
It has been publicly stated that characteristic “H” shaped BUK warhead fragments have been recovered from bodies and luggage. This occurred already in October last year. The Russian Ministry of Defense has commented on this that it is a demonstration of the guilt of Ukraine.
http://www.interfax.ru/russia/431042
Stop the distortions please about BUK shrapnel in luggage. Here’s a Google translate below of your link
http://www.interfax.ru/russia/431042
The garbled Google “Buck” translation in the headline is using the masculine Instrumental case of “BUK” -” “Буком” meaning ‘by means of a BUK”.
The Defense Ministry called the message a lie about the defeat of the Malaysian Boeing Russian “Buck”
.
19 March 2015 Choose a date20:30
Moscow. March 19. INTERFAX.RU – The Defense Ministry of the Russian Federation criticized the Ukrainian media posts and special services of Ukraine on the availability of evidence destruction Malaysian Boeing MD-17 Russian anti-aircraft missile system “Buk”, calling it a lie.
Anonymous:
Stop the distortions? You yourself are doign so! The Russian MOD specifically denied the fragments are from a Russian BUK, and clearly stated they are of the type that would be found in the older model Ukrainian BUK. Read the last paragraph:
“These are complete lies. The double-T-shaped warheads shown in the photo belong to only one rocket – the Buk-M1 rocket, which are precisely the ones Ukraine has in its inventory. The Buk-M1-2 warheads are actually shaped like small parallelepipeds, and there’s no way any double-T-shaped fragments are part of that. So this website’s ‘exclusive’ report actually pulled the rug out from under the feet of its own sponsors.”
Why couldn’t you be bothered to quote that in your citation?
Turned out “tomorrow or friday” is monday. First a quick recap of last week:
When asked to provide proof of his statement that the Russian military claimed a Buk missile shot down MH17, andrew initially dodged the question:
Andrew on March 25, 2015 · at 5:04 am UTC
When it was pointed out to him his answer failed to answer the question, andrew did what is called in debate “changing the goalposts”, IE:
Andrew on March 25, 2015 · at 8:14 pm UTC
“They did not state it directly, but there was no other conclusion to be drawn from the material presented.”
IE: The Russians did not claim it was a Buk and it was andrew’s distortion of what the Russians were saying all along.
Furthermore, andrew posted several source links in that comment and claims of what they represented.
The 7/21/14 MOD presentation only presented a single plausible scenario – downing by a BUK M1 owned by Ukraine and positioned at Zakharoshenske. They did not state it directly, but there was no other conclusion to be drawn from the material presented. This conclusion was reinforced by their presentation on 7/30/14 below: http://eng.mil.ru/en/analytics.htm
The actual title of the report is: “Analysis of satellite imagery released on the Internet by the Security Service of Ukraine on July 30, 2014”. The report deals with falsification of previous Russian satellite info by the Ukrainians regarding Ukrainian Buk positioning and also Ukrainian falsification of other satellite images showing Russian equipment being brought into the Donbas along with other falsifications. The report is not about a Buk missiles downing MH17, it makes no claim there at all, but about the USA using Ukrainian cover for their falsification of satellite images for propaganda dishonest purposes.
Next:
This was recently reinforced by Major General Igor Konashenkov, Russia’s Defense Ministry spokesman regarding the detection of Buk M1 warhead fragments at the crash site, where he clearly states that contrary to western press reports these fragments are from missiles only used by Ukraine. http://www.interfax.ru/russia/431042 & https://meduza.io/en/news/2015/03/20/russian-defense-ministry-says-media-are-lying-about-the-mh17-crash (the original link by andrew is defunct)
Both of these are about the planting of false evidence by Ukrainians. No claims are made about whether a Buk missile shot the airliner down. None of these links posted by andrew to show “the Russians think a Buk shot down MH17” even address that question, they are mainly about debunking falsehoods claimed by the israeli-Americans through their Ukrainian puppets. That’s it. Andrew was fully aware of this when he made these false claims.
Next:
The Ukrainian SU25 fighter was detected on radar at 5 km elevation and climbing and around 4km distance behind MH17 and only around 60-90 seconds after the impact (specifically 17:21:35 Moscow time). Prior to that time it was below 5 km and thus not on civilian ATC radar. http://www.mid.ru/brp_4.nsf/0/ECD62987D4816CA344257D1D00251C76
That is literally a complete falsification of what was in the report linked. The report clearly stated the “Su-25″* was detected at 17:19, the map provided clearly shows the “Su-25” was very close to MH17 at 17:20. The position of the Su-25 at 17:21 is the last position for that aircraft shown on the map.
* Su-25: the translation is “purported Su-25” with a qualification that the radar source can not make an exact determination of the aircraft type due to its technical limitations.
This is as far as I’m going to recap, since it provides enough info of andrew’s commenting “mo”. Andrew’s comments are a variation of this well known disinfo technique:
COINTELPRO Techniques for Dilution, Misdirection and Control of an Internet Forum
Technique #2 – ‘CONSENSUS CRACKING’
A second highly effective technique (which you can see in operation all the time at http://www.abovetopsecret.com) is ‘consensus cracking.’ To develop a consensus crack, the following technique is used. Under the guise of a fake account a posting is made which looks legitimate and is towards the truth is made – but the critical point is that it has a VERY WEAK PREMISE without substantive proof to back the posting. Once this is done then under alternative fake accounts a very strong position in your favour is slowly introduced over the life of the posting. It is IMPERATIVE that both sides are initially presented, so the uninformed reader cannot determine which side is the truth. As postings and replies are made the stronger ‘evidence’ or disinformation in your favour is slowly ‘seeded in.’ Thus the uninformed reader will most like develop the same position as you, and if their position is against you their opposition to your posting will be most likely dropped. However in some cases where the forum members are highly educated and can counter your disinformation with real facts and linked postings, you can then ‘abort’ the consensus cracking by initiating a ‘forum slide.’
Worthwhile trolling analysis, andrew isn’t the only “Langley”/”justthetalk”/”freerepublic” thing here. The “je sui charlie” zio-spam and site attack was a good indication of who are these things posting here, but the infection remains, still, surprisingly, considering the supposed damage these things did.
Andrew essentially twisted sources debunking Israeli-American propaganda into supporting his own trolling supporting that very propaganda. I stopped documenting this after a couple of his comments because he uses the same sort of distortion techniques repeatedly throughout his trolling here. Andrew claims to “support the consensus” in order give itself legitimacy when it is essentially spamming Israeli-American propaganda. This kind of duplicitous trolling is a direct hostile attack on a site.
It is no coincidence that andrew’s little string of trolls coincided with the Dutch reporter who found “Buk fragments” and the reuter’s “witnesses” which miraculously came forward at the same time. Besides misrepresenting Russian debunking of the Ukrainian/Dutch “Russian Buk evidence” plants, andrew also actually had the chutzpah to use the reuters rubbish as part of his Israeli-American propaganda spiel:
Andrew on March 24, 2015 · at 8:50 pm UTC
“There have been accounts published in the press with people who claimed to have witnessed missile launches like this around this time. Reuters just published a piece like this.”
Which has been shown to be fabricated Israeli-American toss, like all the rest:
Creative Lie-cense: Reuters Accused of Faking MH17 Testimony
“When we talked about the Boeing on camera, I explained everything as I saw it. The things that I allegedly said off-camera, all this nonsense, was made up by the journalist himself. It’s all lies, because off-camera, we never discussed the Boeing, and just spoke about life, about the current situation, so to speak.” Fedotov told RT.
The Lugansk resident added that Zverev later contacted him to ask if the he had gotten in trouble for speaking with the journalist.
“The first thing that he asked was whether I had gotten in trouble. I was really surprised. Why would I be in trouble if I told him about things as I saw them? And only when my friends called me up and told me that some channel was airing footage which noted that I said one thing on camera and the opposite without the camera did I understand why he was asking me this question.”
Stating that the so-called off-camera testimony was merely conjecture, Fedotov stated that he doesn’t understand why the journalist would fiddle with his testimony. “Maybe he was doing it for his own benefit…I really don’t know what his aim was, but it looks to me like a provocation.”
RT noted that its requests for comment from Reuters on the controversy have not been responded to.
BOT TAK:
I honestly don’t understand you or the mentality you bring to this discussion. I suggest (as I have since mid-July) the evidence of shootdown history and, the dribble we have from the Russian MOD, and of the investigation itself strongly points to Ukraine shooting down MH17 with their own Buk’s during air defense exercises the Ukr’s themselves openly admit to holding at that time from a position the Russian MOD immediately pointed out to the world and you accuse me of being a CIA Jew troll???? Why? When did the NATO-US position become Ukraine shooting the plane down?
I’m not interested in responding to your ad hominem about me in any detail, simply because it is so preposterous. I’ll say again that I am a civil engineer living in Pennsylvania and working for a private company, posting under my own Christian name. If you need to verify that, email Saker and ask him to confirm.
Saker:
How did u slip in that picture of Jerry Garcia & think no one would notice?
LOL
http://ultimateclassicrock.com/jerry-garcia-birthday/
Someone remind me again—which side is Putin on?
MOSCOW, March 24. /TASS/. Russian regulatory agency in the sphere of mass media and communications, Roskomnadzor, has issued a universal broadcasting license to CNN International, a source at the satellite channel told Izvestia daily.
“It’s true that we received a license for television broadcasting in Russia over a period of ten years on March 23,” the source said.
http://tass.ru/en/russia/784493
Anonymous on March 24, 2015 · at 2:31 am UTC
Don’t you have something else to do?
Putin wants to see the Moscow maidan of next april 12th(Navalny march) broadcasted live worldwide maybe?
What a stupid decision…
Smart decision. He wants RT to be allowed in US and UK. Why be afraid of CNN?
Well if CNN broadcasts examples of “Republican Senator John McCain has threatened…….” along with all the war mongering against Putin and Russia it might be a great decision for it’s citizens to see. Putin may reach 100% approval ratings yet. see Lawrence of Arizonia speaks:
Unless they hook up a phoney studio that is right out of Langley and not really CNN but they couldn’t slip that by for long could they?
Anonymouse, Do you have the soul of he who likes censorship? I’m sure you know better.
Focus now : Putin is on the side of truth and decency.
And we are lucky we have him to speak for 99.9% against the .01% (mostly zionist).
The snakes are eating each other.
Lawrence of Arizonia speaks:
Republican Senator John McCain has threatened that the US Senate would block any nuclear deal, should the Obama administration reach an agreement with Iran.
McCain told CNN on Sunday that “we will do everything in our power to make sure we do play a role because we think that’s our constitutional obligations.”
“I don’t think they will reach a deal that we can live with,” he added.
http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/03/23/403013/McCain-threatens-to-block-Iran-deal
Anonymous, the deal to give up sanctions against Iran isn’t a treaty, so I don’t see that it requires Senate approval.
He has a mission to make amends for being a treacherous stool-pigeon while imprisoned by the Vietnamese, through eternal arrogance and belligerence.
http://novorossia.today/how-much-the-truth-costs-in-ukraine/
What does the USA strictly demand in return for their billions? According with the agreement with the IMF, about 230 thousand state workers should be dismissed in Ukraine; the cost of gas will rise 4-6 times, and the retirement age increased to 65. Setting aside manifold growth f prices of food and medicines and the fact that social payments and salaries have not only failed to grow, but significantly reduced.
Anonymous, the billions given to Ukraine from IMF are not US funds. They are global taxpayer funds, w most countries contributing. The purpose of IMF conditionalities is to shrink the economy of the debtor co9untry, so they can’t pay back– therefore opening eveything in their country to looting .
Oddly, the loot doesn’t go to the global taxpayer, but to the international banking cabal and biggest transnat’l corps. Maybe I’m missing a step in there??
Either Kolomoiski is delusional or has an ace up his sleeve. What could it be? Assassination of Poroshenko? Intervention by Mossad?
He’s given another indication of appealing to the people: “It’s notable that Kolomoysky and his court launched wholly socialist slogans concerning nationalization of unlawfully privatized property.” –Fort Russ
Yes. My guesses as well. And question … in the AngloZionist Empire, isn’t the tail wagging the dog – the Zio wagging the Anglo – rather than the other way around? And if so, how can the Empire just drop Kolomoiskii?…
Kolomoysky is Chabad-Lubivitcher, they own the universe (snide remark), currently there is a turn war internally between the tribe. Nuland, Kagan are Chabad too. He will prevail.
I am afraid he indeed will. Of note is that he uses exactly the same “vocabulary” as Nuland creature, an added flavor to the infinitely crude and arrogant universe-owning demeanor which uniquely characterizes that particular species (in the U.S. one bumps into them much too frequently).
@Johan,
I really liked that phrase—“particular species”. That was great!
Do I have your permission to copy it?
Regards,
Carmel by the Sea
@Carmel by the Sea
I just now saw your post, thank you… Yes, of course you can copy this and anything else from me (better “me”, for I’m as anonymous as it could be … though CIA would surely say otherwise :-)).
Regards,
Johan
@Johan,
Thank you! and no worries I’m # 1 missing peoples’ replies to me all the time.
Yes, we all so “anonymous” with NSA nowadays LOL
Well as long as NSA don’t go around advertising my age…. :-)
Godspeed! to you.
Regards,
Carmel by the Sea
They are still loyally waiting for Schneerson to rise from the dead.
as i told you before …… the left is a proplem ….. it’s me the Greece the person …… oooooeeeehhhhh…..
What ?
Please refrain from commenting if inebriated.
hey, this could be a real commentary from a real greek person,
and quite interesting in this context,
can we just let this be?
“can we just let this be?”
No.
don’t make a sound of that …. i am under the impression that that the people have a natural mapping ….. may i consider the Orthodox ….
\https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTei2UojmjU …..
GEODETIS…..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTei2UojmjU
Interesting times.Since they are both Jews (though Poroshenko converted to Christianity,he says) who will Israel support,if either. Kolomoisky seems to have a high profile in the Jewish community.So that might be a problem for the Zionists.And then there is Yarosh and the other fascists Kolomoisky funds.What will be their stance if he goes down and their money ends.Saker is right, he would be a perfect person to pin the Odessa massacre and MH17 on.The fact that he’s probably really guilty makes that easier.But I’m just wondering if we are seeing the beginning of a gangster war between the death squad fascists,and the junta fascists for power.I think it would be great if that happens.If they are really serious about their power struggle all Banderastan might fall apart.And the NAF could just walk in and liberate Novorossia with limited fighting.Maybe then hook up with some disaffected UAF officers and liberate the whole of former Ukraine ending the crisis.
ditto
RR
Jesus Christ… the guy looks like a demonic Jerry Garcia, can almost hear him singing “I’ll steal your face right off your head…”
I’ve never thought of Jerry Garcia as demonic, defused or scattered, sometimes, maybe. But we are all that way in the morning. You know, before coffee, vitamin c and beer:
Oops, wrong tune, should have been truckin. “coffee, vitamin c and beer” is a personal creative liberty of the line “reds, vitamin c and cocaine” in that tune.
That was your portrait ? Very nice. But should you be listening to any music from the Evil Empire ?
Wouldn’t this be more in your line ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTzZlOKnYlw
Saker
FLOR solitaria on March 25, 2015 · at 4:43 am UTC
That was your portrait ? Very nice. But should you be listening to any music from the Evil Empire ?
Wouldn’t this be more in your line ?
A typical adolescent personal attack of the zionazi/nazi webtrolling corps. I thought this kind of stuff was supposed to be filtered out now?
So you didn’t like my song… That’s too bad…
I thought it fitted your militaristic persona.
Saker
FLOR solitaria on March 25, 2015 · at 4:43 am UTC
That was your portrait ? Very nice. But should you be listening to any music from the Evil Empire ?
Wouldn’t this be more in your line ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTzZlOKnYlw
FLOR solitaria on March 31, 2015 · at 2:26 am UTC
So you didn’t like my song… That’s too bad…
I thought it fitted your militaristic persona.
When people seek out others to attack them on the web, it is called web stalking. A very common allowed tactic on Jewish run websites (like MoA, Mondoweiss, guardian cis, freerepublic, democraticunderground, firedoglake, huffhuffpost, the various msm sites, etc.) to harass those not considered “insync” with the zio-tribal pov. Sad to see this site corrupted the same way.
@ bot tak
There’s no need to be so conceited. I don’t consider you important enough to stalk you.
And I don’t see any zio-tribal pov here, but rather the opposite.
If on this site were allowed only the people you approve of, it would look like a Communist Party Congress.
ENOUGH people. Stop the personal sniping both of you.
Marines out of Ukraine Dead of Alive
In this interview Mozgovoi describes the war between Novorossyia & ordinary Ukranians as a gladiator match, which will end in mutual annihilation if the two sides do not unite against the various fascists & occupiers of their land who pit “brother against brother,” preserving only themselves. It sure would nice to see the oligarchs, paramilitaries, & various other war mongers & occupiers implode & turn on each other, reversing the scenario about which Mozgovoi warned.
http://youtu.be/RFT6_KVd_ro
IF this happens:
Kol will be made responible for Odessa and the other Nazi “business” of the past year.
The heroes/patriots/assholes in his private army will be “integrated” in the national guard/army or “punished” if they took part in those incomprehensible atrocities commited by the dungs of Kol.
THEN is the Ukraine _entirely_ free of the nazi scourge. Democratic and free of corruption – the elysium of mankind etc. etc.
WELL – now Russia have to return the Crimea.
And the poor misled Ukrainian citizens in the Donbass have _absolutely_ no reason to demand anything but returning in the open arms of freedemocratichumanrightful Kiev.
AND this Putin dude has to pay reparation for all the damage inflicted.
off for puking
Molten
“If I was sitting in Langley my recommendation would be clear: send him to Muzychko.”
It is surely only good manners to allow “the deciders” to fashion their own perceptions and strategies.
Langley’s mission/agenda is to maintain/accelerate status of “failed state” in Ukraine.
Leaving that territory ripe for looting a la Libya. Having chaos at Russia’s doorstep is long term goal.
Internal strife merely assists in this agenda.
Russia/Putin is their only hope.
Christine
As cynical as it may sound, if a ‘gang war’ breaks out between oligarchs and it looks like Kolomoisky might not have the upper hand, might it not make some sense for Moscow to (very, very covertly) back him in order to even the score and perpetuate Banderastan’s total dysfunctionality? Just a thought… a rather dark thought.
Saker:
I started writing this comment for the previous post, but it seems more appropriate here. I want to make a couple of corrections to your account of the UkrTransNafta affair and to offer some additional info about what’s going on behind the scenes.
UkrTransNafta is the oil pipeline company under state-owned oil and gas monopoly Naftogaz. Ukrnafta is the oil and gas production, refinery, and storage division of Naftogaz. There’s also a gas pipeline division, which is 100-percent state-owned.
Until recently, Kolomoisky exercised control over Ukrnafta through PrivatGroup. Even though the state has controlling interest, Kolomoisky was able to use his 42 percent stake to block votes, typically by not showing up for shareholder meetings. On January 13, the Verkhovna Rada voted to reduce the quorum necessary for a vote, effectively taking away his control. Now if he doesn’t show up, they can proceed without him.
Poroshenko didn’t replace the entire board of UkrTransNafta, nor did he do it by force, at least not initially. On March 19, Naftogaz announced that it was replacing UkrTransNafta’s chairman, Alexander Lazorko. He was Kolomoisky’s man and by some accounts was complicit in diverting oil from the pipeline system to a refinery owned by Kolomoisky that had unused capacity. The new chairman, Yuri Miroshnikov, is former SBU. Poroshenko allegedly has been working with the SBU in an attempt to dig up dirt on Kolomoisky and thus neutralize him. It’s also likely that they wanted Lazorko out well before being audited. Naftogaz announced in late January that it contracted with Deloitte, one of the world’s largest auditing firms, to review the company and its subsidiaries in preparation for selling off parts of its business to foreign investors.
When Miroshnikov showed up on Thursday to assume his duties, Lazorko refused to leave and instructed guards to prevent Miroshnikov from entering the building. Both Lazorko and Kolomoisky argued that his replacement was illegal, because he could be thrown out only if he had been charged with wrongdoing, and he had not. Miroshnikov came with his own detail of bodyguards and forced his way through Lazorko’s security. Of course, Kolomoisky blew a gasket and responded in his standard MO.
I’m wondering now whether the real point of Kolomoisky’s raid on UkrTransNafta wasn’t to reinstall Lazorko but to remove incriminating documents before they fell into the hands of SBU and Poroshenko and before the imminent audit. Miroshnikov’s appointment is temporary. Right after it was announced, Kolomoisky and Poroshenko made a deal that he wouldn’t engage in any investigations of the company’s finances but would leave that for the official audit by Deloitte. Evidently that agreement was made before the raid.
On Sunday, Kolomoisky sent armed guards to the Kiev headquarters of Ukrnafta. The reason isn’t clear. Radio Liberty reported that he said it was a precautionary measure against “corporate raiders” – the same charge he made at UkrTransNafta on Friday.
I’ve maintained all along that the impending breakup of Naftogaz is behind a lot of the political maneuvering. The split is required to meet EU rules and has been on the table for several years. It’s more urgent now, because it’s a condition of the IMF loans, and besides that, there’s a pack of drooling hyenas waiting to strip the carcass. The plan is to separate the transmission side – the pipelines – from the production and storage side. As I understand it, Naftogaz will continue as the trader (buying and selling). The European Bank for Reconstruction and Development has been working with the Ukraine government (sic) on the restructuring plan, as well as a project to modernize the pipeline system (big construction contracts!). According to the bank’s year-end report, final preparations are under way to sell off 25 percent of Naftogaz through an IPO. In other words, they’re getting close. So maybe this isn’t just a fight between oligarchs, but a battle heating up between the corporations and their respective government vassals. The fight between Kolomoisky and Poroshenko might even be a proxy war. If true, it would be a deliciously cruel irony.
Of all the divisions of Naftogaz, the pipelines have got to be the biggest prize. Can you imagine the power the new owners will have if they can control the flow of oil and gas through Ukraine? The head of Naftogaz recently was quoted as saying the bidders were lining up. No doubt, and they likely are in the country with their suitcases full of unmarked bills, laying the groundwork for the IPO. It’s also likely they are using the oligarchs (and vice versa) to gain an edge over the competition. For all we know, Kolomoisky and Poroshenko have competing “sponsors.” Time will tell.
I just read that the minister of energy yesterday ordered all accounts and deposits of companies managed by the ministry to be transferred to state-owned banks. I suppose that would constitute a corporate raid from Kolomoisky’s point of view, and maybe someone really is trying to get him out of the picture – and not just because of the threat to their political power.
Seems to me the Neocon plan has been
1) Confiscate the Russian fortress of the Black Sea;
2) Confiscate the pipeline across Ukraine, built be the Soviets to tear Europe away from the US.
A heart-warming double victory, that would have been. As the first shot has widely missed the target, the second is now being fired, but from a very bad position, indeed. If the US puts its flag on the pipeline, then Russia will simply turn it into a useless piece of infrastructure.
Already, Kolomoisky (and his Western co-investors) are worrying. He is in it to win it — not the war, he doesn’t care about military victory per si — but to keep and augment his wealth and power over Ukraine. However, the value of his (big) share of the pipeline will be doomed if the US declare victory over it. And their would go a substantial part of his billion dollar worth, down the drain.
Yes. Raw power may appeal to the most psycho of the psychopaths, but for the rest, it’s not an end in itself. It’s to gain and keep the wealth. I think Kolomoisky is freaking out because he has always considered those companies as his, but forces more powerful than he may have other plans.
Unless something has changed, the law specifies that foreign investors would be able to buy up to 49 percent in the Naftogaz spinoffs. The state is supposed to maintain 51 percent, which in theory is a controlling interest. But in any case, the U.S. flag will not be flying over the pipelines. It will be ExxonMobil’s flag or Chevron’s or Halliburton’s flag. Or, more likely, a consortium, maybe with the large European energy and construction companies, or with some smaller Ukraine partners. Moreover, the U.S. corporations are U.S. in name only. They have no allegiance except to themselves. Most of them do business in Russia, and they are still in Russia despite the sanctions (although they say they are complying and that it has reduced their profits).
That is the sickest thing about all of this. While everyone is focusing on who is in political power, who’s getting support from what government, etc., the multinationals are carving up the economic territory. Nuland and her crowd answer to them, not the other way around.
If, indeed, Halliburton’s flag — or Chevron’s, or ExxonMobil’s — gets to fly over the pipeline, it will be the same as putting the U.S. banner, right there. These are the corporations that went in, right after the Pentagon cleared Iraq and Libya. Nevertheless the debt, spun by the USGov to finance such endeavor, has fallen on the shoulders of the hapless U.S. citizen. Much more profit has to be extracted overseas and “trickled-down”, to the American middle-class; otherwise, the Judge of Natural Selection may decide to reward (some part of) the U.S. elite with the fate of Marie Antoinette.
Anyway… I reckon it would be fatal — for Putin’s image, as a remarkable statesman — if Gazprom, after all the buzz about Turk Stream plus China Stream creating the opportunity to shutdown down Ukrstream, would end up paying big transit fees to Anglo-American vulture-capitalism. It cannot happen with Putin in charge, anyway. That’s why the U.S. elite dreams him out of the Kremlin.
Correction: UkrTransNafta is owned 100 percent state-owned. The Radio Liberty story I cited has it wrong, as do many other news outlets. The confusion is likely due to similarity between UkrTransNafta and UkrNafta, in which Kolomoisky has around 42 percent control. Further confusion arises in the reference by many sources to Kolomoisky’s “control” of UkrTransNafta, which is (or was) de facto by virtue of his association with Lazorko and not due to ownership of shares. In addition, there is a complicated relationship between the pipeline company and refineries owned by Kolomoisky, giving him some real financial influence. Lazorko, according to a report in the Kyiv Post, used to head one of them.
As best as I can tell, using rough Google translations of Ukrainian and Russian sources, the issue of ordering the transfer to state banks of accounts of companies managed by the energy ministry refers to UkrTransNafta accounts in Kolomoisky’s PrivatBank — according to one source, about $86 million.
Despite the error, the gist of my comment remains the same. Kolomoisky stands to lose big if Deloitte’s audit uncovers his illegal dealings. As long as the threat of exposure was coming from other corrupt oligarchs, he could protect his secrets with blackmail. But he won’t be able to do that with Deloitte.
PQ, Thank you. Interesting. More on Niqnaq.
It seems me Kolomoysky is in the strongest position to extract the most profit from this. This is also a conflict between the Euro faction (Poroshenko) and the US (Kolomoysky). They are compradors representing fiercely competative imperialist interests. The US is challenging not just Russian Federation but also seeking to take advantage of the crumbing EU and extend its economic interests through the Ukrainian neo-colony.
Thanks you, Saker, for yet another sober and illuminating analysis. It is not clear to me why Russia should not support Kolomoiskii in one way or the other provided that he has any chance of holding out against Poroshenko whatsoever. On a less speculative note, it still seems difficult to conceive how the West make any U-turn on MH17 considering how much propaganda has been spent on it. The German left wing anglo-zionist weekly Der Spiegel just recently ran a big story claiming they had tracked down the actual Buk-launcher which, supposedly, had been brought over the border from Russia.
The really interesting question consists of why Russia is not doing more in the way of exploiting the obvious with regard to MH17. Russia can surely do better than what the military did when it presented radar evidence right after MH17 had crashed.
Aren’t there a bunch of nuclear reactors in his little kingdom there?
Are they safe?
Has OffGuardian been deemed off-limits on the Graun? – We were emailed yesterday by a reader who told us she had tried several times to post a link on the Guardian to our ongoing reportage of the Kolomoisky circus in Kiev, and each time the link had vanished without a trace just moments after posting.
More here:http://offguardian.org/2015/03/23/has-offguardian-been-deemed-off-limits-on-the-graun/
NATO Is the World’s Most Dangerous Institution –
The NATO church and the Atlanticist faith are courting disaster for the entire globe, but at least there are jobs, profits and prestige for officials to be had – Where I live (the Netherlands), if you were to call NATO the world’s most dangerous institution, a consensus would quickly form to conclude that you must have lost your marbles. Yet, without NATO we would not have a Ukraine crisis, and no speculations about the possibility of war with Russia.
Read more here:http://russia-insider.com/en/2015/03/19/4716 and here:http://www.unz.com/article/nato-and-the-two-central-conflicts-of-the-ukraine-crisis/
These guys believe their own bullshit. Which is the problem. They have not met a real enemy who can give as good as it gets for more than half a centaury and as you know the world used to have a major war every decade. When they look at Libya and how easily they were defeated and how easily Iraq was defeated because of new technology like HARM and DU armor, it has gone to their heads.
After all it is to their advantage to make the treat bigger than real life. How do you think they get promoted or bonuses and new positions. They still look at Russia like they look at Poland or China like they look at other Asian countries. After all Japan used to be a power but look how easily they were defeated. No one looks at it like it was the soviets who defeated Japan before and at the end of the WW2.
You really think the US would have had any chance no matter how many aircraft carriers they had, if they still had the Japanese imperial army intact? Even with Germany they only look at it like, well it only took us a little more than an year to defeat the greatest military power on the planet, without thinking that the soviets blunted the Germans and depleted their forces after 3 years of brutal war.
The main problem in all this is the revisionist history the West subscribe to, They just believe their own bullshit. With Hollywood movies making it seem like American special forces alone can defeat the entire Russian army all by itself. In reality American special forces got whacked and call in air power any time they face more than 2 Taliban. After all we saw American special forces in action in Black Hawk Down.. oh wait, how about the special Iranian embassy rescue..
You are correct. Zhukov’s decisive victory at Khalkhin Gol in 1939 and the Red Army rapidly moving south down the coast and the Japanese outer islands in July and August 1945 scared the pee out of Truman.
As to the ‘Iranian hostage mission’, you’ll need to ask Ollie North.
Not everyone suits green.
“These guys believe their own bullshit. Which is the problem.”
No, no, no, not a problem, but myriad opportunities.
Perhaps you have been reading Mr. Appy’s “American Reckoning”, or the recent rumblings of Messrs Cohen and Mearsheimer.
” If I was sitting in Langley my recommendation would be clear: send him to Muzychko.”
Perhaps your proposal is based on the dual notions that the question of the hour is who put the bong in the bong-de-bong-de-bong, and that ends justify the means rather than means condition the ends.
“As for Poroshenko, he appears as bellicose as ever, making grand statements about everything and running around in battle fatigues.”
Awesome … I always thought that, besides the thirst for power and money, ‘Pork’shenko always loved being the center of attention, be the west pet, as in that pathetic “Charlie march” in Paris. How would you like to be close to that bastard when he was waving to the public … A weapon, and …
Poroshenko! He doesnt realise yet that he is disposable, as disposable as Hussein, or as Kolomoiski and will likely end as miserably,..
Wonder when Nuland will get sick of Yats ,… Mr “he’s the man, Yats!” What’s your bets? 3 months? 3 years? maybe ,..an accident..?
Coincident that a German plane goes missing? . Handy media distraction for a new barrage of destructive warmongering. Malaysia was making trouble too ,…Ever read Confessions of an Economic Hitman by Perkins?
Poroshenko! He doesnt realise yet that he is disposable, as disposable as Hussein, or as Kolomoiski and will likely end as miserably,..
Wonder when Nuland will get sick of Yats ,… Mr “he’s the man, Yats!” What’s your bets? 3 months? 3 years? maybe ,..an accident..?
Coincident that a German plane goes missing? . Handy media distraction for a new barrage of destructive warmongering. Malaysia was making trouble too ,.. needed a lesson?,…Ever read Confessions of an Economic Hitman by Perkins?
@there is a very good chance that MH17 can be fully dumped on him (thereby providing the Empire with a face saving “out”
Not only.
“Russia issues arrest warrant in absentia for Ukrainian oligarch Kolomoisky
Igor Kolomoisky”, 2 July 2014, 14:14
Moscow’s Basmanny Court has warranted the arrest of Ukrainian oligarch and Dnepropetrovsk region governor Igor Kolomoisky, the Interfax news agency reports.
The court thus granted the Investigative Committee’s request for Kolomoisky’s arrest.
Earlier, the Investigative Committee brought criminal charges in absentia against Kolomoisky and Ukrainian Interior Minister Arsen Avakov. Both are accused of using prohibited methods and means of warfare, committing murders and kidnappings under aggravating circumstances and preventing journalists from doing their professional duty.
Kolomoisky and Avakov were both put on the internationally wanted list.
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/voiceofrussia/news/2014_07_02/Russia-issues-arrest-warrant-in-absentia-for-Ukrainian-oligarch-Kolomoisky-3940/
The accusation that MH17 was organized by Kolomoisky was made immediately:
“Ukraine’s False Flag Plane Shoot Down
By Brother Nathanael Kapner, July 21, 2014. @http://brothernathanaelchannel.com/watch_video.php?v=1057
Probably the evidence cannot be hidden any longer and it was decided to sacrifice Kolomoisky. He might have an close encounter with an UFB (unidentified flying bullet). It is unlikely that he would be handed in to the Russians.
One shouldn’t forget strong suspicions of Parubiy’s involvement also in both 2nd May and 17th July, and somewhat low profile since. It’s by no means clear where Sloboda / PS ‘s loyalties lie wrt Messrs P. and K. Well, put it this way, we can be certain that they loathe Mr P. and are only holding back because of the USA’s present dictates.
“Is Uncle Sam “tossing” Kolomoiskii?’
Sorry Saker, but, the way I see it, right now- The answer is …no
Comment from my place
AnonymousMarch 23, 2015 at 8:51 AM
1. Ukrainian politician and former Dnepropetrovsk businessman Oleg Tsarev says that the political and economic conflict between the country’s oligarchs may turn into outright street warfare and a new Maidan
http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150322/1019864329.html
My response
PennyMarch 23, 2015 at 9:11 AM
The new coup in Ukraine was one of my predictions for this year and it sure looks to be shaping up…. What with Kolomoisky and his thugs entering oil offices and the police/government not interfering..
I can totally see open warfare between the Oligarchs as a pretext for a coup-
it’s perfect- someone has to take charge- a good tyrant will be needed”
Therefore Kolomoisky is more vital now then ever.
I can’t believe that this is anything other than a charade intended to set off some sort of chain reaction.
Whoever is giving Poroshenko his orders, you’d better believe that Kokomoiskii is familiar with them, and is most definitely on closer terms with them than even Poroshenko (an obvious puppet).
How could it be anything else?
So how much of the Ukraine’s oil and banking business does Benny control? Can’t he bring down the country almost at will?
What are the odds that the Kremlin can work with him in a serious way? Is there any kind of deal that might make sense?
Kolomoisky wields too much power and influence for Poroshenko to take him on. I can see Poroshenko being ousted, he has no real power base, and possibly being replaced by a “unity” figure, Yulia anyone? She also comes from Dnipropetrovsk, has close ties to Kolomoisky and Yats and also the Americans. She has been very quiet recently…
A few observations on Kolomoisky.
The power of a billionaire does not come from the accounting value of his holdings, but from the economic power and output of his holdings, and especially their free cash flow. The relevant question about Privat Group and its various subsidiaries is how much money they can generate to fund activities Kolomoisky wants to undertake.
Kolomoisky holds the additional benefit of being the eminence grise behind the Fatherland Party of Julia Tymoshenko (and Turchinov) and the source of funding and power for Dimtro Yarosh and his Right Sektor paramilitary organization. These both give him sources of power in the Rada, ministerial positions, and street muscle.
By having secured for himself direct control of Dnipropetrovsk Oblast (which is probably the economically most powerful Oblast in Ukraine), and effective control of Zaporozhzia, Kherson, Mykolaiv, and Odessa Oblasts, he also has available the government resources and revenues of this quarter of Ukraine, which economically and by population is more like a third. This area also controls all seaborne trade of Ukraine. This are also has the main part of the remaining military-industrial complex of Ukraine (i.e. Yuzhmash and the like).
Kolomoisky hasn’t shown any real interest in taking control of Kharkov Oblast. The NAF has made noises about liberating Mariupol and Kharkov, but not attacking into the Kolomoisky Oblasts. An understanding with the NAF would allow Kolomoisky to redirect his punitive battalions to other purposes than blocking southeast advances by the NAF. This wouldn’t be unprecedented. The NAF has been operating under a formal agreement with Rinat Akhmetov since the middle of May concerning his holdings and the city of Mariupol.
An war between Ukraine and Kolomoisky’s regions would not be assymetrical. Kolomoisky could probably count on not only his private army, but also at least part of the Ukrainian Army brigades stationed in his Oblasts and formed of recruits from those Oblasts (i.e. the 17th, 25th 28th, 79th, etc.). Its also unlikely that the Kharkov based brigades would have any more interest in fighting the south Ukraine than they have had fighting Donbass. Also, such a fight could not be undertaken without one participant or the other reaching an understanding with the NAF.
Kolomoisky is very likely to be focused on taking control of the economic resources in adjacent Poltava Oblast, which would be fatal to Ukraine.
Mr. Kolomoisky is seeking to solve the benny and blat conundrum, being previously attuned to conflate blat with bennies and bennies with blat, and not yet fully aware of the hazards of his illusions.
Perhaps Aeschylus could have something to contribute.
If the oligarches kill each other, will the Nazis fully take over Ukraine?
I wonder at the intra-American politics of The Kolem’s effrontery: is the CIA using him to destroy Kiev’s political leadership, thus rendering the White House’s limited attempts to hold the line, even if only temporarily, moribund? If this interpretation is right, then The Kolem is nothing more than an ice-breaker for Langley.
Of course, The Kolem is disposable, but in the eyes of Washington’s hawks, a Kiev deprived of political leadership, however nominal, means there is no one there to be negotiated with. This strategy has CIA precedent, most notably in Saigon in late 1963: removing Diem left Hanoi with no negotiating partner, and Kennedy no one to help him out by requesting the end of the US military presence.
I hope I’m wrong, and console myself with the thought that I usually am.
The Euromaidaners need no enemies when they have friends like Kolomoiskii, Yats “the rat” and Petro “win the war in a few hours” Poroshenko. These men have no interest in making Ukraine any better, they are more than happy to loot the very idiots who used street power to give them their prominent positions. The NAF need only wait for a good opportunity to return their nation to the historical boundaries stretching from Odessa to Kharkov.
Do these Ukrainians really think that the west will pay billions in subsidies to fix their hellhole? As bad as the rhetoric can be from some European countries (the American lapdog governments in Poland and the UK), I doubt the average taxpayer or politician in Germany/France would be happy to deal with the never ending economic sewer of Ukraine.
If the west planned to make an open sore for Russia, they’ve failed. Instead, they now have the venereal disease which has been sucking Russian resources for the past two decades.
Poroshenko dismisses Dnepropetrovsk Governor Kolomoyskyi
That’s right!
http://tass.ru/en/world/784724
Interesting…
AND HE JUST GOT KICKED OUT OF SWITZERLAND!
http://johnhelmer.net/?p=12986
@ PQ,
Lol the only place he will be able to run is that little #%*# country in the Middle East.
Yoooou know what I mean?
Regards,
Carmel by the Sea
And, apparently he’s saying that he resigned.
http://johnhelmer.net/?p=12986
cassad just confirmed that Kolomoiskii just resigned his governorship of Dinnyprovosk and that the Ukraine is run by the American government at this point so you were right. “I can only repeat, Ukraine is not spherical horse in a vacuum” cassad reported. I didn’t think it was either.
https://niqnaq.wordpress.com/ Lots of Kolomoisky stuff including an interview.
Kolomoisky is backed by Joe Biden, Hunter Biden, and John Kerry’s Devon Archer. They lose billions of dollars if Kolomoisky goes up in smoke. So I don’t see it happening. Kiev can’t pay its pensions and its army, while Kolomoisky is a governor and well able to fund his own army. The peasants were going to rise up against the draft of women and old men anyway. Kolomoisky might be able to pull another Maiden, in which case he ends up President instead of Poroshenko. What do you think?
Biden & Co. will distance themselves from Kolomoisky if his illegal activities are exposed, and it looks like that is about to happen. Naftogaz is being audited in preparation for being sold off to foreign investors. Both of the companies he raided in the past week are Naftogaz subsidiaries in which he has been engaged in questionable activities. One of the companies was headed by a close connection of his, who was fired by Naftogaz last Thursday. The guy that replaced him is former SBU. My theory is that Kolomoisky’s raids were a search and destroy mission to get rid of any incriminating evidence. At the same time, Poroshenko has been working with the SBU to dig up dirt on him. It looks like they might have found something over the weekend. As if that’s not enough, his bank is about to go down, which means all the billions are down the drain anyway.
When Biden the Younger was appointed to Burisma last year, my first thought was that either he was going to get in on the fracking bonanza, or the company was positioning itself somehow to benefit from the breakup of Naftogaz, Maybe both. If so, they have to stay as clean as possible through the bidding process, especially given the company’s murky past.
It’s also possible that he simply has become too much of a liability due to his brazen thuggish behavior. Pyatt warned him after last Thursday’s fiasco, and he turned right around and did a repeat performance two days later.
Saker wrote:
If I was sitting in Langley my recommendation would be clear: send him to Muzychko.
I doubt it. He is not “out of the tribe”, so the worst cas scenario for him would be to downgrade to millionaire status and spend the rest of his life in Israel.
Zionism is anti-semitic. Because pretends that all jews are united in zio ideology which is wrong. For those who do not agree with zio they invented term self-hating jew. Thats all about western civilization values. If someone do not agree with mainstream ideology hates itself and must be eliminated.
Zionism IS certainly anti- semetic TO the Palestinians. They too are Semetic people.
Anyway, according to Israeli Gilad Atzmon and I quote him : ” Zionism is just another symptom of Judaism”.
Gilad Atzom – Israeli author and musician.
Carmel by the Sea
I very much fear that this is the correct move by the Empire. Consolidate the power of their primary stooge in Ukraine, and open the way for a renewed attack on Donbass.
On the other hand, will Kolomoiskii sit down and swallow this? What will other self serving oligarchs do? Oligarchs are not in it for the sake of neither Porky nor the Empire. They are in it for themselves.
Kolomoisky resigned as governor of Dnipropetrovsk in at least partial surrender. Lots more on the Kolomoisky matter at this site https://niqnaq.wordpress.com/
Excerpt:
The head of “Privat” had the choice to admit defeat and ask (like Lazarenko) for asylum in Pindostan. But he decided not to give up, and chose the most inconvenient option for the West. He gave the court case in London the political turnover. Referring to the kinship of Victor Pinchuk with Leonid Kuchma, he accusing them of recreating Ukraine’s old oligarchic regime, declaiming: “Kuchma’s Regime was characterized by corruption, nepotism and connections with organized crime.” He called for the nationalisation of all illegally privatized enterprises, and even agreed to return part of what he had stolen himself. Thus Kolomoisky put the London court in the position of having to give a legal assessment of Ukraine’s prevailing oligarchical regime. If the judges accede to this demand, the result risks casting doubt on all of the current Western policy in Ukraine.
[“Pindostan” = US]
Anon Mongoose
Please Wake me up when Igor’s Privatbank is seized.
FORTRUSS
Kolomoysky is holding Ukraine by its “Privat” parts
The Largest Bank
Experts don’t believe the government will risk liquidating Privatbank. This is the country’s biggest financial institution which holds 26% of all personal savings and 15% of assets of the entire banking system. The bank’s assets as of early 2015 were 204.6 billion hryvnya, making it the leader on the Ukrainian market. The Privat network includes 2600 branch offices, 19,400 ATMs which service 16.3 million bank cards. That’s about half of Ukraine’s payment cards. According to Privatbank information, its main shareholders are Gennadiy Bogolyubov and Igor Kolomoysky, each of whom owns 36.98% of shares, and the Cyprus firm Triantal Investments Ltd, which owns 16.23%.
~~~~
I have posted before. Ukraine is the catalyst – the place where the USD and NATO died.
If he has put this in the courts on London or wherever, at least to leave, has done something useful. These thefts to the Ukrainian people of the Kuchma era must also be debuged, although this does not exempt his own thefts and crimes.
Sanctuary One and Bot Tak, Thank you for the defense of common sense in the MH17 shootdown. Can’t imagine how anyone can still believe it was shot down by a BUK missile. The crackling noise it makes (like the shoulder-fired SAM, but MUCH louder) cd not possibly be overlooked.
I especially liked the argument that “every country w satelite reconnaisance says it was brought down by a BUK”. He completely glosses over the fact that the US didn’t SHOW the satelite evidence or even refer to it, preferring instead to “document” w social media audio.
Cheers Penelope. :)
Tks, it makes you wonder if it is an individual opinion or a more structured disinformation campaign?
Read and watch this new propaganda:
Dutch investigation concludes MH17 downed by Buk missile from Russian battery
Reuben F Johnson, Kiev – IHS Jane’s Defence Weekly
18 March 2015
“Investigators from the Office of the National Prosecutor (OM) of the Netherlands have completed the first phase of their work in definitely determining the cause of the mid-aid explosion and crash of Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 (MH17). Preliminary information leaked to the Dutch media has concluded that a Russian unit is responsible for the shootdown”
https://web.archive.org/web/20150319201238/http://www.janes.com/article/50075/dutch-investigation-concludes-mh17-downed-by-buk-missile-from-russian-battery
and today from the Hegemon’s Brit vassal megaphone:
MH17 disaster: Appeal for Buk rocket witnesses
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32120644
Note the car dealer billboard pic -now cropped to prevent identification – that was debunked months ago as being in Ukie territory.
MH17 happened in 17July 2014 and only now are they asking for witnesses? Surely it doesn’t take that long to train actors and falsify incriminating ‘evidence’?
SanctuaryOne
Notice how the media interest is synced together with each other, along with “official” announcements and “leaks” and how it is reinforced on the web by the usual spam blitz. Full spectrum dominance” is their term for it. It most definitely is an orchestrated propaganda campaign to cover up the MH17 ZPC/NWO false flag. And keep it covered up.
Yes, I must confess I am fascinated by the methods used -particularly to discredit any truth that escapes and surfaces through the cesspool of distortions.
But given the ownership of western echo-chambered messaging in media and the devotion of almost all the population to that media -especially television- how does one counter that?
Sites like this one can publish alternate media but the audience is tiny and drowned out.
Cracks appear in the Hegemon’s message occasionally but it almost doesn’t matter as there is no continuity in what people see and read.
As that master of smear and dirty dealing ‘T*rd Blossom’ Karl Rove put it, ‘we create our own reality’.
Here we go again.
The same few items of “evidence” keep being recirculated all the time as “fresh proof”.
Dutch “news” outlets have always pushed the line of “Russian BUK” including the latest one about the shrapnel that can only be from a model Ukraine never used (yeah?? have they listed all the others to positively eliminate them?) based on a fragment picked up we don’t know where, 4 months later. The previous one about a month ago was a rehash of the “smoke trail” photo. Now the official investigators come back with the BUK scenic tour video and the SBU (that is Ukrainian secret police and clearly biased) alleged radio intercepts.
BBC, Reuters and New York Times have been the loudest and most frequent pushing this line, from the word go. BBC pulled an early (July 20 or so) video where witnesses talked of fighter planes nearby. Reuters just now interviewed a man who said he heard a BUK being fired from Ukrainian territory then faked a claim that off camera he said it was actually from rebel territory (which he’s firmly denied).
Now for some facts:
* The BUK being driven around videos have been analysed to death and proven to be not taken where they supposedly were taken
* The low-loader telephone number, conveniently left on by the “dumb rebels” for all to see when doing a dangerous secret job, was traced to a trucking yard where a PHONE interview was done with someone claiming to be the owner, who said rebels had taken over the yard and stolen that truck — interview done by a single Lithuanian reporter never before or since heard of, just after a Lithuanian consul was supposedly murdered by rebels, and we know how anti-Russian Lithuania is.
* the “tapped phone calls” tape, being from the secret police of Ukraine, the country trying hardest to blame the rebels and/or Russia — has been proven to be three recordings spliced together — ONE section of it admitted by the speaker (Bezler) to have been actually spoken but referring to a different shoot-down on an earlier day
* Strelkov’s VK page announcing a shootdown was about the AN-26 shot down the day before — it was accompanied by 2 images, one of them a video, clearly showing a plane on fire in the air, while MH17 never burned until it crashed.
* the “smoke trail” image is from a different day (visible from cloud patterns) and supposedly taken by the same person who took one of the burning-plane heavy-smoke pictures from his other window — this being the AN-26 crash.
Everyone forgets there was a WAR GOING ON.
* burnt area that looked like some rockets got fired from there?? HUNDREDS of these around.
* shrapnel, fragments or anything found near the site anytime after July 26?? the area was shelled and bombarded for months afterwards, as well as wide open for anyone to walk over. Even some of the damage may not have been original from the crash — the best resource is Akkermans’ 600+ detailed photographic documentation.
* someone heard or didn’t hear the BUK being fired??? excuse me, WAR GOING ON, shells, rockets and missiles were being fired HOURLY all over the area, why would anyone think any of them is more worth remembering than any other? and if it was close, people DUCKED, not looked up. And Ukrainian army had held a whole day of BUK exercises just on July 16 (possible source of the “smoke trail” photo).
* planes flying over?? yes that they WOULD LOOK UP at, to know if they would have to duck or not, having been bombed from planes numerous times.
Back to POLITICS
A Government official in Kiev declared it was shot down by a BUK about 5 hours after the crash — and Obama and the rest of the world immediately started screaming at Russia about it. At this stage all that was known, from photos, was that the plane had broken up in mid-air.
* nobody had reported seeing a missile
* nobody from Kiev or local police had been anywhere near the debris
* none of the famous full-of-holes sections had been found or photographed yet
It could have been a bomb on board, or explosive decompression from faulty oxygen bottles or half a dozen other ways planes break up mid-air. But they knew it was shot down and they knew who by, so they said.
Nice canines
Previously the Ukrainian government brought the militias under the Ministry of Defense – what brought out Aidar protests. This step with Kolomoyski is in the same line of consolidating power and reigning in the most anarchic elements.
I guess they have little choice. If the US doesn’t want to keep pouring money into a hole some kind of order needs to be restored. They want the trouble to continue in the East of Ukraine – not in the whole of the country.
What a world we are living in. So, they are finally fallen apart?
i will like to put a point …..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTei2UojmjU ….
i am an orthodox Christian ….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG6924SXQog#t=34