This article was written for the Unz Review: http://www.unz.com/tsaker/musings-on-two-of-the-dumbest-wars-the-us-has-ever-fought/
No, this won’t be about Grenada, Panama, Iraq, Somalia, Haiti, Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan or any other US military war of choice which, while dumb, could at least result in some kind of appearance of victory, no matter how feeble (say, against a few Cuban engineers armed with AKs in Grenada). Today I want to share a few thoughts about the two wars the US has been engaged in for decades even though they never, ever had a chance to win: the war on drugs and the war on guns.
Shocked that I would put these two wars in the same category?
Think again.
True, the war in drugs is something the (so-called) Right loves. The war in guns is the favorite of the (so-called) Left. Granted. That is one difference I won’t deny.
But the rest?
First, both wars are based on a logical fallacy: that an object, an item, is the source of evil. This is why politicians on both sides (let’s just pretend that there are, really, “sides” in the US official political spectrum, even if there are none) love them. Put yourselves in the shoes of a US politician and ask yourself what you would prefer: to deal with a complex problem (violence/addiction) which has its roots deep inside human nature and which is exacerbated by the very nature of our society, the society which has put you, the putative US politician, into a position of power and which now dangles the promise to let you join the select club of the ruling 1%ers or to simply ban an inanimate object by voting “yea” on a piece of legislature?
Think of all the risks a US politician would take if he/she wanted to deal with the real issues, especially those who are either rooted in, or the result of, our deeply dysfunctional social and political order. And think how smart, courageous, principled and even heroic you, the politician, would look if you took a “tough stance” against drugs/guns? All you really need to do is make sure first is whether your constituents suffer from drugs-phobia or gun-phobia and, voilà, you are a hero! Simple and very, very effective.
Second, both wars are easy to explain to the dumb and ignorant. Let’s be honest here, as a politician you need to mostly cater to the left side of the Bell Curve with some attention given to the center. Not only do smart folks tend to distrust politicians, but they also like to reach their own conclusions, often based on lengthy research and the analysis of complex arguments. To make things worse, smart people often tend to be anti-authoritarian – individualists who favor free choice over state enforced laws, rules and regulations.
Third, both wars are easily fueled by the fear factor: “drug warriors” have a phobia (in the sense of both hate and fear) of drugs just as “gun warriors” have a phobia of guns, which means that rather than rationally analyze the issue, their position will be emotionally driven, free from all the complexities of real life. A politician will always prefer an emotional argument over a rational one because only emotion generates the kind of unthinking loyalty a politician needs to secure his/her power base.
Fourth, both wars are a bureaucratic and financial bonanza. Why? Because these are wars which will never, ever, be “won” and that, in turn, guarantees not only a steady streams of dollars, but even the creation of specialized agencies such as the DEA or the ATF whose very existence will depend on never winning the war on drugs/guns. A bureaucrat’s dream come true!
Fifth, there is also a much more subtle but no less important aspect of the war on drugs/guns: they make it possible to easily detect potentially disloyal elements. Drugs users, especially, since they break the law to consume their drugs, have already crossed the psychological line of deliberately breaking the law and disobeying the doxa of the state and society and they are much more likely to engage in other forms of disloyalty (such as engaging in various forms of crimethink) than law abiding citizens. Legal gun owners in the USA are extremely law abiding (In Florida and Texas, permit holders are convicted of misdemeanors or felonies at one- sixth the rate that police officers; source), but a lot of them are also fiercely individualists who do not like to rely on the state for their defense and who often even believe that the 2nd Amendment was crafted with the specific intention to allow citizens to resist against a state turned authoritarian (of course, illegal gun owners are, by definition, felons and criminals who are extremely disloyal to anything but themselves). So, in a way, the use of drugs or the possession of weapons is a good way to, shall we say, “screen” for those elements who could turn out to be potential trouble makers.
Of course, at this point in time gun owners have it much, much, better than drug users. Alas, there never was a constitutional amendment protecting the right of each citizen to ingest, smoke, inject or otherwise consume any substance he/she wants simply because at the time of the drafting of the Constitution that freedom was an self-evident truth (wars on booze and drugs happened much later). In fact, the list of right specifically granted to the state was assumed exhaustive and the state could not engage in any legistlation not specifically authorized, while today we see the exact opposite of that: whatever freedom is not expressly protected is fair game for the millionaire lawyers sitting in Congress. But considering the very real risk of a Hillary Presidency soon, the 2nd Amendement might well be soon eroded to such a degree as to become unrecognizable. Even the Republicans have an ugly record, especially at a local level, for passing all sorts of petty and dumb regulations which gradually but constantly limit the constitutional right to keep and bear arms. In some jurisdictions the mere possession of a firearm is already considered a felony while others try hard to make self-defense a crime in almost all circumstances. So yes, the 2nd Amendement is still there, but barely, and if Hillary gets to nominate the next Supreme Court Justice it might be gone soon. Besides, what the gun-haters failed to achieve in the courts, they have already achieved in a cultural sense where, for example, a revolver is seen by many as an “instrument of murder” rather than a home-defense tool, a hunting tool, a sports tool or just a harmless symbol of freedom (historically, free men were allowed to carry weapons, slaves were not).
I want to make it clear that I am not comparing guns and drugs by themselves. I am only comparing the rationale and methods used by the regime in Washington to wage a war on these otherwise completely different things.
Now let’s engage in a little thought experiment.
Let’s imagine that Congress decides to legalize all drugs and guns overnight: all drugs, medical or recreational, would be come available over-the-counter in any store willing to sell them and the right to bear arms would be completely protected under “Constitutional carry” guarantees. What would happen next?
Some will say that the US would turn into a gigantic war zone where millions of citizens sky-high on PCP and crack cocaine would begin shooting each other with assault rifles and that all those not busy murdering each other would be lying around terminally stoned. Do you believe that too?
I don’t.
For one thing I believe that the number of people using drugs or owning guns would change very little. Sure, there would be a short-term novelty effect, but soon the numbers would stabilize. Shootings and overdoses would also remain pretty much at the same level as today. What would drop dramatically and immediately would be crime rate, not so much because of the deterrent effect of an armed citizenry (just like today, most folks do not go around carrying a firearm) as due to the fantastic effect of a complete collapse of the illegal drug market following a legalization of drugs.
[Sidebar: A friend of mine is a detective in the Daytona Police Department. He used to be in Narcotics for years. I recently asked him what percentage of crime in Daytona is drug-related. He said “almost all of it”. It turns out that not only does the trafficking in drugs result in a huge share of the violent crime in Daytona, but that most burglaries, thefts, break-ins, etc. are also committed by drug addicts. And even though drug traffickers and users cannot legally obtain a gun (convicted felons don’t have that right in Florida), drug dealers all pack firearms (even if most of their guns are in very poor condition or even broken, and the felons themselves very bad marksmen). The truth is that if drugs were made legal the size of US police departments could rapidly and dramatically be reduced and that the remaining small force could go back to “normal”, civilized, police functions rather than fight the kind of military war in drugs with APCs, helicopters and SWAT teams they are engaged in every day.]
My point?
Simple: mainly to show to that those who want legalize drugs (the so-called “Liberals”) have much more in common with the defenders of the 2nd Amendement (the so-called “Conservatives”) than they think, and to show to those cherish their right to keep and bear arms that they, in turn, have a lot in common with the “potheads” they are so-willing to condemn and put in jail. At the end of the day, it makes absolutely no more sense to authorize drugs/guns and ban guns/drugs than it makes to oppose abortions and support the death penalty. Just as life is either a sacred value or not, so is the freedom of each person to decide for himself/herself how he/she chooses to live. It all boils down to a few simple questions: do we feel that it is our right to curtail the freedoms of our fellow citizens because we do not approve of their choices? Do we believe that inanimate objects can, by themselves, cause such evils as violence or addiction? Do we believe that it will ever become possible to eliminate weapons or mind-altering substances from our societies? And, most importantly, do we believe that each individual ought to have the right to answer these questions for himself or herself, or do we believe that the state ought to enforce its choices on the rest of us?
The Saker
War on drugs simply means the elite must keep producing and protecting the manufacture of drugs and promoting the use of drugs.
War on guns… in Aussie we had that after the April 1996, Port Arthur massacre. A ‘lone gunman’ shooting spree resulted in 35 people dead and 23 wounded. The massacre shook Australia to its core and triggered laws that reduced gun ownership. The historic Port Arthur is a former prison colony site in Tasmania – and on that fateful day was packed with families of tourists.
But surely, the dumbest war ever waged is the ‘war on terror’ … which should read as the US continual War Of Terror.
You sort of left out the part that there hasn’t been a mass shooting* in Australia since (there were 13 in the 18 years prior to Port Arthur) – but, and this is a big but, the incidence of violent assault, aggravated burglaries and home invasions has sky rocketed, and guns are still available if you know the right people and have enough money – both of which describe hardened criminals, the sort of people not afraid of handing out violent assaults, or committing aggravated burglaries and home invasions…
*a mass shooting is defined in Australia as 5 or more dead not including the gunman
And that event was actually another “false flag”, planned well in advance.
“Why do Australians oil their gardens? To keep their guns from rusting”. Reports have shown that even in states with full gun registration where the “authorities” supposedly knew everyone who owned a banned gun, the number of banned guns actually turned in was at most, only a third of the ones on the books. In the states without full registration, the estimates were even lower. Most guns actually turned in were broken or cheap, low quality “junk” guns, and the owners often used their compensation to go buy still legal high-power bolt-action target or hunting rifles and shotguns.
“When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns” – all the gun bans and laws accomplished was to bring to pass the making of hundreds of thousands of new Australian outlaws.
Of course mass shootings stopped, because the PTB had accomplished the goal of the false-flag shootings of getting semi-auto firearms “banned”. Probably the same PTB that make big bucks off of the black-market for semi-auto guns.
This drivel has run its course but you can’t know that. If driving 100 mph in a school zone is outlawed, only outlaws will go 100 mph in school zone. Use your intellect instead of NRA slogans purchased from Madison Ave.
On guns: As long as the Pindos blow each others’ heads off in ever larger numbers at ever lower ages, I’m kind of pleased. Gun-toting Pindos are but a manifestation of their war-mongering, genocidal Zionazi rulers: Extremely violent, bloodthirsty, and hateful reactionaries all along the line.
To put this psychotic infatuation with firearms among the Pindos into a most sobering perspective, one only has to compare the genuine revolutions in, say, Russia and China to the utter bogus “revolution” by the God-awful Euro-squatters in North America. To wit: Did the downtrodden Russian and Chinese masses run around shooting all and sundry as a prerequisite for making revolution? The hallucinations of Euro-squatters making “revolution” by killing off an innocent Native population are not only totally anathema to plain human decency; they are a threat to the entire species. As matters stand, the only advantage of firearms-for-all in the US is the potential to finish off US society from within (ending the entire settler project, in effect). This is exactly the danger that some saner voices are trying to address, but to gung-ho reactionaries addicted to violence, that’s certainly an affront of the very highest order imaginable. Consequently, the US will continue to enjoy shooting sprees of ever nastier proportions, which is a good thing in my view.
On drugs: Especially in the context of the US, chemical substances are not the issue; anti-civilizational, outright psychotic misculture is as it is the staple diet of the entire population.
To summarise: The phoney “war on guns” is no war at all. It’s just a way for the Pindo to show full commitment to continued US degeneracy and, amusingly, decomposition. The “war on drugs”, by contrast, involves massive imperialist coercion, lawlessness, and propaganda since its target is Third World countries and peoples that need to be cowed — it’s essentially a constituent part of the “war on terror”. It is most definitely not an accident that self-styled apostles of freedom such as the Pindos rage and fume about their sacred firearms but are just fine with the US government’s wars of oppression abroad.
“As long as the Pindos blow each others’ heads off in ever larger numbers at ever lower ages, I’m kind of pleased.”
Kinda “violent, bloodthirsty, and hateful”, dontcha think?
There are various terms of abuse you could put in place of “pindo” and your comment would not be posted. Question is why such a comment is okay directed at Americans.
“Did the downtrodden Russian and Chinese masses run around shooting all and sundry as a prerequisite for making revolution? ”
They sure did! They did it on a scale that was beyond the capabilities of a sane and civilised person to comprehend.
Si
Of course. Actually, Stalin had already killed Avogadro’s number of people when he came of age. The sky is the limit!
Idle curiosity, I suppose – but what have the last two comments got to do with what went before?
Alex
I answered the question which had been asked.
Taking the subject a little further, an illusory distinction is being made between large scale criminal violence identified as “genuine revolution” and large scale violence identified as “utter bogus “revolution” “. In reality they are one and the same. Uncivilised. Not able to be defended by a sane and rational person.
Siotu
Siotu, you botched it just marvelously. Equating the Russian and Chinese revolutions by and for the people of two oppressed countries tormented by imperialist war to a bunch of greedy Euro-squatters hellbent on land-grabbing, genocide, and enslavement admirably proves the Soviets very right indeed: Bourgeois ideology is a manifestation of mental illness.
Nussimen
There is no difference between large scale criminal violence and large scale criminal violence. There is no difference between looting, impoverishing, starving, raping, injuring, torturing and killing other people versus looting, impoverishing, starving, raping, injuring, torturing and killing other people. Sure, some make excuses, present rationalisations, generate fictitious narratives, lionise a warped aesthetic or intellectually twist themselves attempting to justify some occurrences of large scale criminal violence as opposed to others. So what? In reality they are but examples of the same thing. They remain massive crime. Promoting or supporting such is beneath you, just as it is beneath any sane and civilised person.
Siotu
Siotu
Nope. Still lost.
Nussiminen gleefully said he’s happy for Americans to kill each other, the younger the better. He also thought it added to the glee to call them “pindos”.
My question was why such hateful comments are deemed acceptable.
I still don’t see how your remarks are an answer.
You may…
Ah, I think I’ve got it – your comment was a direct response to Nussiminen and not to my question!
… Doh!
Hi Alex
Yes. That’s what occurred.
Moving on. You did enquire about whether such hateful comments are acceptable. I’ll respond to that by confirming I don’t support such sentiment. It is not acceptable. Prejudicial collectivisation of entire populations, of races of people, of groups identified by some non-fundamental attribute or other, for the purpose of hatred and being singled out for violence to be applied against them is wrong. Always.
There is a whole lot of suffering in this world presently with no good reason to increase it.
Siotu
An American wants some reality he/she turns on a reality show. If they get sick of watching reality they can keep up on the latest news on one of Murdochs infotainment channels. If they get hungry they can grab a Big Mac coloured with the same pretty cosmetics used for face paint, nicely scented with scents developed by the perfume industry to smell like food.
The US has lived for so long, so far from reality that its collapse will be spectacular. That is if it doesn’t start launching nukes like a takfiri suicide bomber.
Can the stable hands and veterinarians keep Caligula’s horse on its feet and talking until the elections? What happens if the horse cannot stay on its feet until then? What happens if the sick horse puts in an appearance but does not win?
Pat Lang at his blog said he had asked officers reasonably high up the food chain why Russia was a threat. Although they all believed Russia was a major threat to the US, none could state why.
Even the US military is far removed from reality.
Any grass roots type organisation in the US has their media managers and marketing section to market their product. Any appearance of internal unrest and Trojan horse NGOs are sent in to handle and control and defuse or make a laughing stock of the agitated sheep.
Reality will be harsh for inhabitants of the US. But only if the world survives the coming months.
good one, Peter AU!
Just one issue with this – addiction.
Guns are not addictive substances. Drugs are. Guns do not alter consciousness. Some drugs do.
So I have to disagree that the issues are comparable in effect should laws be liberalized.
The question of how to deal with addiction is not dealt with by either liberalization or crack-down.
The former could just as easily widen the pool of addiction (and increase mental and physical health issues) as reduce violent crime. Or it could simply generate a black market in even more dangerous drugs as the core issues – poverty, greed, marginalization are not addressed.
When coke became popular with the affluent, crack appeared in the streets. The affluent priced the poor out of the market and they were left with a much more dangerous adulterated product.
Given the controversies and concealed harms around even legally-available pharmaceuticals (painkillers, Prozac etc.), I can’t see how giving Big Pharma an increased market share will solve addiction, much less the underlying issues. It will become just another profit centre.
That the ‘war on drugs’ is failing does not make legalization of known addictive ( and sometimes psychotic) narcotics the solution: the fundamental question of why people seek temporary ‘oblivion’ is not addressed.
And, since crime always pays, I can’t see the warlords/drug kingpins simply accepting a loss of revenue: they will respond with even more lethal ‘highs’ and other forms of criminality (kidnapping, prostitution/human trafficking, mercenary hire).
However I do agree that the issues that drive people to addiction are complex, and that the current approach is not helping.
Part of the complexities of addiction is that drug induced addiction is something of a myth.
http://www.brucekalexander.com/articles-speeches/demon-drug-myths/164-myth-drug-induced
Addiction isn’t the only factor.
Drugs influence behavior and rarely for the better.
Ever tried to ‘reason’ with someone high on coke?
Or noticed the contraction of emotional range?
Having been around a group doing coke – affluent, fussy about quality, not ‘crack-heads’ – I can tell you it’s not a pretty sound. Prolonged use in my observation leads to psychopathy. It’s not called the ‘devils dandruff’ by medics for nothing.
As for addiction – that is very real, as I have directly witnessed myself working in rehab.
Uh, did you even read the link?
As Kratoklastes and the others point out, there’s a lot more going on in the head of an ‘addict’ than just the drugs.
Your personal experience indicates some very troubled individuals for whom narcotics perhaps provide some sort of release or escapism.
Dealing with drunks and those abusing prescription drugs is no fun either. Whatever their problems are, they are medical more than criminal but at least those using legal drugs aren’t criminally penalized for seeking relief.
Finding real solutions for these people’s real problems can be more easily addressed without a profiteering crime and punishment industry getting in the way under the smokescreen of drug-induced addiction, perpetuating the problem and their industry.
A.T.
You are right.
Addiction is a choice.
Siotu
Physiology says otherwise. The good industry had a long history of adding addictive substances to processed foud for precisely that reason: sugar being the most obvious.
Addiction is no more a ‘choice’ than your sex.
What is a choice is whether or not you decide to do something about it.
Eimar
Your are exactly wrong.
Consider. You have no choice about which sex you are. “You am what you what you is.”
On the other hand you have choice about what actions you undertake. For example, in order to obtain and consume a recreational drug a person has to undertake a series of directed actions, each of which requires conscious thought, the evaluation of alternatives, the making of a decision, conscious direct action and finally the evaluation of how each decision and action builds toward attaining a particular goal- in this case, getting drugs to consume. At any point along this chain a decision not to proceed can be made. The person has the ability to make a decision to change goals, to reverse direction, to modify behaviour, to alter strategy or evaluation, to undertake alternative course of action. In other words, to make conscious choice and act upon it. Addiction is a choice.
Siotu
Tell that to the kids.
Oh wait – they ‘choose’ their addictions too!
What about alcohol?
We all know how it was when it had been banned. Explosion of criminals…
Even opiates (heroin, opium) are not so addictive as is alcohol. You can not die when you have stopped taking drugs. What is in opposition to alcohol if you are addicted. You can check in all books from Criminalistics – subject in Law Schools.
But somehow no one talking about banning it again… Maybe because ban on something had never stops people from doing it. See story of Eden;)
So what is the purpose? Money…
Think about it for second. Why 1 ounce of plant, which grow everywhere and regrow every year or even every few months has more value than 1 ounce of silver?
Because it’s banned…
So “addiction” to money is a problem and major reason of violence and crime.
There are so many holes in your argument about addiction, that it is difficult to know where to start.
First: there is abundant evidence that ‘addiction’ is far less pharmacological than was previously thought. As the ‘Rat Park’ study showed, the initial research on addiction was profoundly flawed because it kept the test subjects isolated and in surroundings that were akin to a prison. (You do realise that all the ‘studies’ that purport to adduce evidence of the addictive evils of cocaine and heroin were performed on rats, yeah?). Making the rat’s life and surroundings more social almost completely removed the ‘addiction’ potential of cocaine and heroin; even better, taking an addicted rat raised in a ‘prison’ and putting it into Rat Park – with heroin on tap – resulted in the rats still ‘kicking’ heroin.
Second: there is historical evidence from the returning soldiers from Viet Nam – some 20% of service personnel in Viet Nam used heroin regularly while ‘in country’, but on their return to a normal life more than 95% of them simply stopped using it. Again, there was a very high correlation between continued drug use after Viet Nam, and squalid living conditions – the causation clearly goes “shít life -> drug use”, not the other way around… in other words, a shítty life Granger-causes drug use, not the other way around.
Third: ever heard of Portugal? They decriminalised everything in July 2001 – literally everything, including crystal meth, crack, and heroin – and 14 years later they have vastly reduced rates of drug addiction, HIV infection, and the other ills associated with ‘hard’ drugs. (I bet tens of thousands of Portuguese die from smoking cigarettes, though… and additional thousands from the adverse effects of long-term alcohol use).
As to the crack/coke dichotomy: crack (and now, meth) is a specific, predictable outcome of the War on Drugs.
Creating a higher-potency drug is a predictable supply-side response to the increased risk of apprehension: dealers can carry more ‘doses’ (and more dollars-worth) of product in a smaller space, and can more readily ditch it if they are about to be apprehended.
Everybody with an IQ above 50 knew that would happen – just as it happened during alcohol prohibition (suppliers concentrated on spirits; breweries went bust, and organised crime were sure as hell not bringing beer across the Canadian border).
It is one of two Iron Laws of Prohibition of any good with inelastic demand:
People need to understand The Iron Laws of Prohibition.
(1) a ban on any product for which there is inelastic demand will, a fortiori, cause the creation of versions of the product with
higher potency;
greater variability in potency;
more adulteration; and
lower quality control
(2) a ban on any product for which there is inelastic demand will, a fortiori, cause the entry of organised crime in the supply side of the market for the product.
(3) the more vigorously prohibition is enforced, the greater the extent of (1) and (2) – for the simple reason that vigorous enforcement will drive out the relatively-compassionate suppliers first, leaving only the hard-core maniacs.
Anyone who supports prohibition, supports those outcomes – because they are inexorable, predictable consequences of the policy.
No supporter of drug prohibition can ‘pretend away’ those outcomes.
People like to kid themselves that their support for prohibition does not include support for police militarisation and brutality; more-potent but less-reliable street drugs; more violence; more petty-theft and property crime; and more drug-related misery. But those things would not exist without the policy, and the policy is a core ‘driver’ of those things.
Kratoklastes
That is a very interesting post. Well worth the time to read and consider. Thank you for it.
Siotu
I would more interested in how the heroin-use by GIs in Vietnam contributed to the mindset that led to such atrocities as Mai-Lai.
And that’s just one.
I suggest you also research the effects of Captagon on the head/choppers of the M.E.
As I have already stated, addiction is just one issue.
The coked-up behaviour I witnessed was in peace-time. And that of oeople for the most part reasonably well-socialized.
Thus the issue of mind/behaviour changes is not going to be solved by legalization – the harms are inherent.
Read ‘El Narco’ for an education. The writer has decades of experience in Mexico of the drug cartels. Yet does not propose wholesale legalization is any solution.
Two questions I’ve wanted to ask for some time:
Why insist on an a-historical reading of the 2nd Amendment (i.e. ignore what the drafters intended it to mean)?
What are the gun laws in Russia?
(As a footnote, making drugs legal is not “leftist” or “liberal” – Milton Friedman was an advocate.)
Russian gun laws are quite strict and the vast majority of legal guns are smooth-bore. You are required to hold a smooth-bore licence for five years before you can acquire a rifled weapon. Magazines are limited to 10 rounds. Annual inspections are made of gun storages. Mental issues, addiction and poor eyesight immediately disqualify you from possessing firearms. You must be a Russian citizen aged 18 or older to gain a licence (valid for five years) and complete a gun safety course before applying for the licence and each renewal.
There are about six million registered firearms and an estimated 12 million unregistered firearms. Certain high-powered rifled weapons may not be stored at home and may only be kept in the armoury of a licensed shooting range.
Do you think this makes the right to carry a gun one of those Western values we all revile? I dunno.
Alex, if you are addressing your question to me, then I don’t think that the right to arm bears is a Western value to cherish. I’m fully in favour of strict weapons control. I served as a Gunnery rate for many years, was a Weapons Mechanic, LGDO (Local Gun Direction Officer), RCO (Range Control Officer). I don’t fear guns, but I fully understand how destructive they can be and why they need regulation.
Steven,
Excellent answer.
I didn’t intend to interrogate you, but that’s the way it reads.
I’ve read that Russians use high powered air guns instead of regular firearms as the regulations are not as strict on those weapons.
Firearm regs were loosened in 2014 to allow firearms for self-defense, to the chargin of some members of the Russian public.
https://www.loc.gov/law/help/firearms-control/russia.php
http://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news/article/russia-right-to-use-firearms-extended/
I don’t believe that is the case. Pneumatics are limited to 25J and are classified as smoothbores, however I believe that the age limit to possess pneumatics over 7J has been raised to 21 due to misuse of “non-lethal weapons”. Pneumatics are popular because ammunition is much cheaper and they are quieter, important when hunting small game and vermin.
My God. I agree with this entirely.
People just don’t seem to understand how fundamental the War on Drugs in particular is to the police state that is taking shape around us, not just nationally but globally. The War on Guns too.
“So yes, the 2nd Amendement is still there, but barely, and if Hillary gets to nominate the next Supreme Court Justice it might be gone soon. ”
So the Number 1 problem in the States is legislation making. Why on earth is legislation this millenium based on a High court interpretation of a 1787 constitution? Why can’t they just re-write the laws according to what modern politicians decide? (Same for most legislation)
Once you outlaw privately owned artillery (which pretty much everyone agrees on), surely the logic flows down to the tiniest hand gun or even knife. And vice versa, if you allow handguns, why not tanks rolling up and down the street?
On drugs – well I’m unemployed today. If I could get heroin or cocaine for $2 a day would I start to take them? Hell with benefits I could probably have a great time for the rest of my life and never use my 2 University degrees again. Is that a good idea?
And if not how are you going to price drugs in a legal market? Farmers in S America producing openly in fields without being sprayed. Factories in Columbia run openly operating large scale, with no security costs. They will be as cheap as chips as they say in England and S Korea.
Saker concludes without falling on one side or the other but just some leading questions:
“Do we believe that inanimate objects can, by themselves, cause such evils as violence or addiction?” Well of course YES.
“Do we believe that it will ever become possible to eliminate weapons or mind-altering substances from our societies?” Guns YES – they barely exist here in the UK. Mind-altering substances, including coffee and alcohol are controlled according to the views of voters and politicians. Why not stronger drugs? YES.
And, most importantly, do we believe that each individual ought to have the right to answer these questions for himself or herself, or do we believe that the state ought to enforce its choices on the rest of us? BASIC question in Economics or Law. it depends on Externalities!! Coffee is OK, heroin isn’t.
Finally we know that the US is incapable of legislating on some topics, and gets itself into a great mess. We know that the US is fighting black drug use, not white drug use which makes policy a complete disaster. We know that Gun use in rural areas is entirely different to Gun use in urban areas (and perhaps requires different laws). And we know that the CIA uses drugs money to support terrorists where it wants to overturn governments in Asia, and to support right wing gangsters when it wants to maintain non-communist governments in S America.
But all that means is that the US is incompetent in what it does, not that Gun shooting or drugs taking should not be fought against.
There was also the War on Alcohol. That worked very well for some people.
Both “wars” are quite logical from the POV of a zionazi. The war on drugs was to remove the Jewish mafia’s completion in the illegal drug business and the attempts to disarm the citizens is to prevent those citizens from taking up arms against their zionazi slave owners (the way the Cubans did)
Now granted the pindo regime bs officially said to, and regurgitated by, the zio-gay media about these “wars” makes them look like absurd exercises, but since when does zionazi/nazi PR match anything close to reality.
One could mention the example of Portugal’s decriminalization (or maybe it was legalization?) of drugs, which reduced the country’s social problems due to illegal drugs.
I can obtain any drug I want at just about anytime, and yet I have no interest in doing so. That’s the case for most people in North America who don’t use recreational drugs. Legalization is the obvious solution to the drug war.
One thing/obstacle that our good Saker does not mention here is that, (believe it or not and I won’t try to convince you), the highest level of government contains the really large-scale drug dealers of cocaine and heroin. The drug war is the way the government eliminates out the competition and favors the dealers who work for them. Truth!
In Canada we have legalization of cannabis pending, due to arrive in the spring of 2017 under the current Liberal government.
In anticipation of this, the largest manufacturer of cannabis in the country has been established by the head of finance of the Liberal Party. Fancy that!
Similar events are taking place in other jurisdictions – generals running legal grow ops in Colombia, the Jamaican minister of Justice in Jamaica, etc.
And Soros has spent a fortune on the campaign to legalize weed.
Uruguay was forced to become a giant weed factory by Rockefeller/Soros to ‘sav it’s economy.
I will bet my bottom dollar the strain sativa will be genetically-modified, patented and ultimately, weed will be corporate-controlled.
For this reason, I only favour a decriminalisation for home-growing/consumption, with sales remaining illegal.
None of which addresses the effects – that will come only with education.
I am personally highly suspicious of the move to legalize a substance with known ‘pacific’ effects, not to mention the increased risk of psychosis.
A more tractable, docile population – ie exploitable – looks like the objective.
Ask the Chinese about opium – and what widespread legal availability did to its population.
Insightful article Mr. Saker, good points all. Is it not heinous that the statists seem to be self endowed with such imaginary powers over all, even creation to make plants and the people who use them illegal, taking freedom and lives in the process, one is either free or a slave and most Americans adore their gilded cages. In my opinion all representative government must be eliminated for humanity to be truly free, the only hope is direct democracy where the people decide on almost everything via referendum and the politicians become technocrats simply to implement the will of the citizenship with little to no decision making abilities.
It may be worth pointing out that investigatory documentation going back several decades has shown that the CIA maintains an independent and illegal role in securing drug trafficking. Profits accrued to the CIA from these activities have then been used as off-budget funding sources for the Agency. For the share of profits going to the actual cartels, investment advice is provided to channel their profits back into financial markets.
It seems there’s a war for every conceivable situation. Did anyone say we live in a war culture? When Russia stops this current empire’s war on herself (thanks to her superior guns), there will still be thousands of other more subtle wars to deal with. This vineyard (read love) will have a job for a long time to come; well, 75 years at least.
A commenter above introduced a third war: the war on terror, and the idea that it is actually a war of terror. So with guns and drugs. It’s really a war of guns and a war of drugs.
The Love Army takes on war itself, the chief expression of evil. When love replaces war, the problem of drugs and the necessity of guns, and a thousand other ills, will also be handled.
The idea of having the government of the USA fighting a war on drugs is like thinking the Nazis would have a war on swastikas. As a Mexican, I have to laugh about the candid naivety of my anglo friends when they ask me about all of those colourful stories of Mr. Chapo: “he is the biggest drug trafficker ever!”, he is “one of the richest men in the world!” “he manages to fool all that anti-drug effort of the most powerful country!”, etc. I really thought it was very obvious that Mr Chapo has a much more, but really much more powerful boss that sell his products on the other side of the border with a price increase that ranges from 200% to 10000% more, depending on the substance. That powerful boss of Mr Chapo, is obviously an USIan, that has a free pass to launder all of those billions of drug money in Wall Street, together with the funds he/she/them receive from Afghanistan, Colombia, Bolivia, etc. and other charming enterprises like arm trade or human trafficking worldwide.
In the meantime, we put the nearly quarter million death, the displaced and you get your prison population growing, while the bankers celebrate with cocaine the ridiculous fine they got for laundering billions of drug money.
Exactly right. “Make a law….make a business.” In this case, the narco-trafficking business on the one hand, and the hydra-headed security business on the other.
Regardless if there is a war or no war on “items”…….The US is a godless corrupt society with break-downs in the family system and is enslaved to corporations and money lenders who have legalized for example the wide spread use of alcohol (killing 88,000 people annually, third preventable killer of the US population).
Alcohol Use in the United States:
Prevalence of Drinking: In 2014, 87.6 percent of people ages 18 or older reported that they drank alcohol at some point in their lifetime; 71.0 percent reported that they drank in the past year; 56.9 percent reported that they drank in the past month.
Prevalence of Binge Drinking and Heavy Drinking: In 2014, 24.7 percent of people ages 18 or older reported that they engaged in binge drinking in the past month; 6.7 percent reported that they engaged in heavy drinking in the past month.
Alcohol Use Disorder (AUD) in the United States:
Adults (ages 18+): 16.3 million adults ages 18 and older (6.8 percent of this age group) had an AUD in 2014. This includes 10.6 million men (9.2 percent of men in this age group) and 5.7 million women (4.6 percent of women in this age group).
About 1.5 million adults received treatment for an AUD at a specialized facility in 2014 (8.9 percent of adults who needed treatment)5. This included 1.1 million men (9.8 percent of men in need) and 431,000 women (7.4 percent of women who needed treatment).
Youth (ages 12–17): In 2014, an estimated 679,000 adolescents ages 12–176 (2.7 percent of this age group7) had an AUD. This number includes 367,000 females (3.0 percent of females in this age group7) and 311,000 males (2.5 percent of males in this age group).
An estimated 55,000 adolescents (18,000 males and 37,000 females) received treatment for an alcohol problem in a specialized facility in 2014.
Alcohol-Related Deaths:
Nearly 88,000 people (approximately 62,000 men and 26,000 women9) die from alcohol-related causes annually, making alcohol the fourth leading preventable cause of death in the United States.
In 2014, alcohol-impaired driving fatalities accounted for 9,967 deaths (31 percent of overall driving fatalities).
Economic Burden:
In 2010, alcohol misuse problems cost the United States $249.0 billion.
Three-quarters of the total cost of alcohol misuse is related to binge drinking.
https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohol-health/overview-alcohol-consumption/alcohol-facts-and-statistics
Main Types of Crimes Associated with Alcohol
Although the most common alcohol-related crimes we tend to hear about are cases of drinking and driving, there are a variety of other major offenses that result from excessive alcohol intake. Some of the most common alcohol-related crimes include:
Robberies
According to a study completed by the NCADD, 15% of robberies in America (about 197,000) were committed by offenders who had been using alcohol.
The average number of violent victimizations each year totals to about 11.1 million, with 128,790 incidents in which the offender was using alcohol.
Sexual assaults and rape
37% of rapes and sexual assaults (about 149,000) were committed by offenders who had been using alcohol.
Aggravated assaults
27% of aggravated assaults (about 509,859) were committed by offenders who had been using alcohol.
Simple assaults
25% of simple assaults (about 1,445,304) were committed by offenders who had been using alcohol.
Intimate partner violence
Nearly two-thirds of victims who suffered intimate partner violence (these include a current or former spouse, a fiancé, a boyfriend, or a girlfriend) stated that the offender had been using alcohol prior to the incident.
3 out of 4 incidents in spousal abuse were reported to have had an offender who had been drinking at some point earlier.
Victims have reported an estimated 457,000 alcohol-involved violent victimizations between victims and offenders who share an intimate relationship.
57% of female victims of intimate violence occurred when the offender was using alcohol.
Homicides
Federal research shows that 40% of convicted murderers used alcohol before or during the homicide.
https://www.alcoholrehabguide.org/alcohol/crimes/
The list is endless……..
“The list is endless……..”
And of course when pindoland outlawed alcohol during prohibition all that terrible nastiness just simply disappeared.
Also some of those statistic appear to be seriously skewed. For example:
“56.9 percent reported that they drank in the past month.
Prevalence of Binge Drinking and Heavy Drinking: In 2014, 24.7 percent of people ages 18 or older reported that they engaged in binge drinking in the past month”
Which would mean that half of the people who drank something containing alcohol last month engaged in binge drinking. Anybody who lives in the real world would know that is total horsesh*t.
In Quebec, and perhaps in many other Canadian provinces 99% of drug trafficking is controlled by the Mossad agents.
While the Saker makes interesting points I suggest this be read before any final conclusions are reached about the war on drugs:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/MENA/TATUM/tatum.html
What that suggests most definately is that the “war” is actually a protection racket to ensure that the profits go where they are supposed to.
These seem to me quite different subjects.
Drugs is a complex problem. They vary from alcohol and marihuana that are rather innocent to very problematic drugs like heroin. I bet that few Chinese – with their memory of the opium wars – will support this plea for complete freedom. In my opinion this is – just like prostitution – a discussion where there is no black and white and the best “solution” is a complex policy that on the one hand imposes limits and on the other gives some freedom. And the optimal mix may be different in different countries and at different times.
As for guns: the US is a very violent country with much more victims of gun violence than in other countries. Statistics about harmful effects of restrictions don’t convince me. Transitions towards less guns will always be difficult as the most peaceful people will be the first to turn in their guns. I am not impressed by statistics that registered gun owners commit less crimes. First of all crime is related with poverty and registered gun owners will not be the poorest people. Also, if you want to commit a crime it is not very smart to do that with a registered gun.
the US is a very violent country with much more victims of gun violence than in other countries.
Gun violence in the USA is 99% the result of either drugs or gangs. Remove those two and the USA is far less violent than most developed countries. You are assuming a causality where there is only a correlation.
Gun violence in the USA is 99% the result of either drugs or gangs.
That just shifts the question to why such violence is so much worse in the US. The abundance of guns perhaps?
Nope. Because as soon as you remove drugs and/or gangs you get millions of guns out there which do no harm to anybody :-)
Gun violence in the US is a Pindo trait; no more, no less. Without any drugs or gangs, gun violence in the US would still be second to none by far. Make no mistake: To me, the death toll in the US from gun violence is a most promising sign of ethic cleansing on the part of the Exceptionals; most notably so when the perpetrators go for the schoolyards.
And no, the US is not “far less violent than other developed countries”. The US population in its entirety celebrates and revels in violence in general, and war in particular. Care to elaborate on the relative peace and tranquility as compared to other developed countries?
You find mass-murder of schoolchildren ‘ethically’ satisfying?
Frankly Nuss, at times you sound no different from genicidal maniacs like Israel’s Shaked.
well, I lived in Switzerland (full of guns) and the USA (also full of guns). I can attest that once you remove gangs and drugs the levels of gun violence in the USA and Switzerland are very similar: microscopic.
From the point of view of weapons, the two countries are very similar, even though the recent anti-gun legislations in Switzerland have viciously curtailed the rights of the law-abiding Swiss people to own a gun (and very few Swiss have a carry permit). Again, the anti-gun lobby is restricted in its attempts to ban guns by the uniquely American 2nd Amendment. But for how long? Much will depend on the outcome of the Presidential elections in the USA.
I’m not going to pretend to be an expert, but…
I thought the FBI statistics showed gangs to be involved in half of gun crime. Do drugs unrelated to gangs really account for forty nine out of the remaining fifty percent?
Citing Switzerland is surely not all it takes for statisticians to tease out the causality?
“Well, I lived in Switzerland (full of guns) and the USA (also full of guns). I can attest that once you remove gangs and drugs the levels of gun violence in the USA and Switzerland are very similar: microscopic.”
No, you cannot attest that, and here’s why:
You have a, shall we say, somewhat “romantic” view of Pindo society, with a clear emphasis on bourgeois lawfulness. The problem here is that the “drugs” which Pindos are particularly addicted to are greed, deadly violence, and megalomania. It’s a matter of Pindo national consciousness with a highly prevalent legacy of genocidal settler colonialism and imperialism, further reinforced by a violently insane omninpresent “popular” — actually corporate — fascist and militarist US misculture. Switzerland, by contrast, is a peaceful country without this built-in, even openly celebrated, moral degeneracy. Absent any (chemical) drugs or gangs, the US death toll from gun violence would still be second to none by far.
Again, it’s very instructive to look at the most violent thing there is in politics: revolutions. As I have already explained, the appreciation of violence and oppression reflects what constituted the revolutionary act itself. On this basis, guns-for-all make perfect sense when your “revolution” amounts to premeditated land-grabbing, racist genocide, and enslavement = revolution by greedy invaders and oppressors. There are absolutely no other circumstances in which a suchlike approach wouldn’t amount to instant revolutionary suicide as it would mean doling out arms to your mortal enemies right in front of yourself.
Among the developed countries, it is only the Pindos that have to deal with shooting sprees as an everyday reality. Psychotic nations have a certain something, mind my words.
Dumb wars or just insanely clever twisting in the application of law against its spirit? Both abuses of Federal control freak culture have broad social support and roots in common sense.
Guns for a ‘well regulated militia’ implies some level of control over gun ownership aimed at ensuring gun owners are minimally prepared to participate in a ‘militia’.
Founding Father Benjamin Rush warned against ‘medical tyranny’ and advocated for medical freedom to be included in the Constitution.
http://thefederalist-gary.blogspot.ca/2012/11/a-founding-father-warned-about-medical.html
It has been argued by law professor Daniel A. Farber that medical freedom exists under the ‘Silent’ Ninth Amendment under unenumerated rights, although the position is thought to be overambitious. Presumably this includes the right to ‘self medicate’ in the pursuit of happiness.
http://www.alternet.org/story/50404/the_'silent'_ninth_amendment_gives_americans_rights_they_don't_know_they_have
http://www.motherjones.com/media/2007/05/retained-people
The American People have more options to protect their rights than they suspect and only lack awareness of the possibilities.
A.T.
Ah that magic word “implies”. Legal fraudsters have used that slimey trick for generations. Interestingly enough they have even used it to assist with the gutting the US Constitution and before that the Articles of Federation and before that the Declaration of Independence and before that…., not to mention dilution of the Common Law. But hey, if fraud is the game, slimey brings not shame.
The 2nd amendment clause in the Constitution did not state that the ownership of guns be regulated for ANY purpose, including that of forming a militia. It states, “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” Now that is exactly the opposite from your implication. Read it again and carefully. It says that “the right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed”. That is the fundamental principle enumerated. It is a right of people to bear arms (that is, to own them).
Now from that point (the establishment of the right to bear arms- a private property right) it is possible to progress to consideration of a militia. Who is it that makes up the militia? Its membership is not drawn from the military or from the government or from the occupation forces or the tax authorities but, rather it is of the people. It draws its membership from those free people who chose to join it and bring their arms with them. THEY are the persons necessary to bring security to the free state. If they are not free, then it is not a free state. If they can’t own their arms, then for them there is no security and they are not free.
The notion of what a well-regulated militia actually is was well understood at the time the Constitution was developed. There was no “implies” about it. They framers wrote of what they had just experience of. By the term well-regulated, they meant the opposite of a disorganised rabble, the opposite of brigands or looters or even mercenaries and military contractors. They saw a militia as an organised, disciplined, morally consistent group of volunteers, of freedom seeking common people of good (a principle which was well understood and much in currency given the expensive war they had so recently engaged in with the British Empire).
In conclusion, the US Constitution does not allow for federal government control over, or limitation of, the right of the people to own arms, not even for the purpose of minimal preparation of a militia. Indeed, if it were the case that the right to own arms was limited by state control in order to ensure “gun owners are minimally prepared to participate in a ‘militia’ “, then that militia would not be a militia of a free people, it would be a branch of government controlled people. Secure for the government perhaps. Hardly free.
Siotu
The drug war was started by the Nixon administration to go after the counter-culture. The CIA uses the drug trade to finance its activities and thereby avoid congressional oversight. Where the CIA goes– Laos, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Central America, the drug trade usually follows. Historian Alfred McCoy is the expert on this subject.
(By the way, in the invasion of Grenada, the number of medals awarded to soldiers exceeded the number of soldiers. In how many wars has this happened?)
Excellent considerations and dissection of the issues involved. I may add another war, possibly more insidious, if not more calamitous or devastating than the others. I refer to the war on health. More insidious for, unlike drugs or guns, its official title conceals an Orwellian lexical ambiguity, undetected and unperceivable by most. For the war on health is advertised, paraded and promoted as the war on illness, an endeavor that would be sacrilegious to question.
Medicine shares with (organized) religion the property of unimpeachable authority. The Pope is the prime minister of God, the priest is a local authorized administrator of the primeministership.
In medicine there is no pope, though the cabalistic apex of the medical-pharmaceutical combine fulfills a similar function.
The war on health is as equal a source of astronomical profit as other wars, and it is a major contributor to the Gross Domestic Product (3 trillion $ in 2013).
Although every now and then a doctor, attacked by remorse or similar, bursts out denouncing the immense abuse and plain charlatanry associated with most ‘treatments’, the un-doctored citizen is not expected to have or to expose a tenable contrary view – for he lacks ‘authority’.
In the instance, I write this note after about two years during which I occasionally volunteered as a translators for patients, at sundry hospitals and clinics.
My conclusions are horrifying. Part of my job consisted of listing the drugs prescribed and used by the patient. Surprising was not so much the length of the list (from 5 to 40), but the unquestioning willingness by all to partake of poisons, referred to as ‘medicines’, whose noxious effects have often to be counteracted by ingesting yet other ‘medicines.’
The history of stratagems practiced by the medical establishment, supported by willingness to credit than ability to prove them, has yet to be written.
The administrations of Lucretia Borgia, daughter of Pope Alexander V and reputed mistress of poisons, were probably safer.
I just finished reading an open letter to the Italian AMA, written by a courageous and very reputable doctor. It curiously escaped the censorious net of the local MSM. The title is telling, “Medicine is false, it is only an instrument of power exerted by the Multinationals of Health. It does not cure illnesses but removes the symptoms generating new diseases.”
And he continues with a list of typical and topical horrors. The concern by Benjamin Rush (a ‘founding father’), as pointed out by A.T. was a premonition.
On balance, I think that Shakespeare was right when he has Timon of Athens, a skeptic on medicine, say to two robbers passing by, “Trust not the physician, his antidotes are poison, and he slays more than you rob.”
There’s also something you forgot regarding drugs.
If done right, they can allow people to “wake up” from some nonsense in our society by reconnecting with our spiritual side. They would see through useless wars, the monetary system induced violence and the way they are exploited for no good reasons. You don’t need drugs for that but they can definitely make it happen.
They also break most current “economies”. Who would spend a lot of time and work to buy a new expensive car one doesn’t really need where a 5 USD MDMA pill is a far more satisfying experience?
“Although they all believed Russia was a major threat to the US, none could state why.”
No doubt quite surprising, if correct. The top brass is with very few exceptions the stratum in Western capitalist society most ideologically committed to wanton reactionary violence and chauvinism. Be that as it may — the correct answer anyway is that Russia escaped Western neoliberal genocide and destruction to the point that now it is the West which is drowning in its own neoliberal/neoconservative excrements. Might be too painful for a Pindo to admit or even to understand.
One who argues for libertarianism in America must surely find the laws of Russia oppressive.
I personally do find Russian drug and gun laws totally oppressive and useless.
I also don’t like many Russian policies about copyright and the Internet.
Living in the West has clearly “infected” me with libertarian values :-)
Saker
This was a thought provoking article. I have passed its link on to other people for them to read and consider. Thanks for publishing it.
I read your comment to Alex and am curious about Russian copyright law. Could you elaborate on this topic. I am not familiar with Russian copyright and IP law.
Thank you
Siotu
Dear Saker,
Keep the thought-provoking articles coming (in addition to the always penetrating analyses of geopolitics).
(I’m pretty sure libertarianism verges on the incoherent in any society – almost an oxymoron.)
Alex
“I’m pretty sure libertarianism verges on the incoherent in any society – almost an oxymoron”.
Indeed, we can’t have that. It is why the people require prohibitions and wars imposed upon their lives.
Siotu
Siotu,
Curious notion – if not libertarian, then imposing wars.
Alex
Either you leave other people alone to make their own decisions and live their own lives, or you impose prohibitions upon them with the necessary consequence that should they refuse to obey you, then you initiate violence and war against them.
Siotu
Reminds me of Margaret Thatcher and her fatuous, There’s no such thing as society.
Alex
You make my point.
Margaret Thatcher, enforcer of prohibitions, initiator of violence and, ultimately, bringer of war. Exactly what people don’t need.
Siotu
siotu
I hear the moderator groan, but I’ll selfishly drone on…
You think you made a point? I think we’re circling without landing a punch.
Any society depends on its members observing its rules and customs; and any member of a society is a product of its rules and customs.
Once libertarians concede the need for laws, they have surrendered their position and joined the rest of us in trying to negotiate checks and balances.
As I say, a libertarian society is almost a contradiction in terms. And Margaret Thatcher’s assertion that there is no society, only individuals, is fatuous.
Sounds like the same post-modern pic n’ mix we’re all confronted with.
Alex
Quoting you, “Once libertarians concede the need for laws, they have surrendered their position and joined the rest of us in trying to negotiate checks and balances.”
It is not apparent where you got that from. It appears you have confused some lawless form of anarchy with Libertarianism. It certainly is not consistent with what Libertarianism is. You ought to read up on Libertarian Legal Theory, as what you write is not correct by any means. There is a vast body of writing on the subject. Some of it is extremely interesting.
The position of Libertarians is that that each must interact with the other by negotiation, voluntary trade and only by means exclusionary of initiations of force, fraud, coercion or violence. If it is found that someone disagrees with you, then while you may attempt to negotiate with that person or persuade them, you do not have a right to force them to act according to your preference.
Here, some examples.
Villiami has decided he wants to go back to the islands. He has a car he decides to sell. He has looked after it and made sure everything is working AOK. It is clean and has been well serviced all its life. He decides that he would like to get GBP 45,000.00 for it. So that is what he advertises- car for sale, price is GBP 45,000.00 (and of course he includes information about what sort of car it is, its mileage, features, present state of repair and all those sorts of things in his advertisement).
Along comes Sarchimoto. He is interested in the car. He look it over and decides, why yes, he would like to have it, but he only has GBP 30,000.00. He makes an offer to Villiami, who declines to transact at GBP 30,000.00. Now, Sarchimoto has some choices. He can further attempt to negotiate with Villiami (perhaps he tries to arrange a time payment scheme, or vendor finance, or he puts a deposit on the car while he runs off to arrange a loan for the balance he needs to make purchase, or he offers some goods in exchange as part of the transaction, whatever). Alternatively, he can decide the car is too expensive and walk away. If the two of them come to a deal then they may execute it and the car becomes the private property of Sarchimoto, with the money becoming the private property of Villiami. If not, then Sarchimoto walks away and the car remains unsold. Then Sarchimoto keeps his money and Villiami keeps the car.
Of course, Sarchimoto could be very bad and try to get the car by pulling a trick on Villiami (like secretly coming back later to superficially damage the car so he can fool Villiami into parting with it for less than he originally wanted). He might try threatening Villiami in some way (like telling Villiami about what his cronies could do to Villiami’s daughters- since they will not be returning to the Islands, hence available to injure). Perhaps he could try to steal the car, or he might even attack Villiami with a weapon in order to get him to hand it over.
In the Libertarian society Sarch is not to undertake any action that involves the initiation of force, fraud, coercion or violence against Villiami. His choices are negotiate or, if he can’t make the deal, walk away. He treats Villiami as another individual, same as he is. He does not treat Villiami as a target who can be robbed.
Another example.
Navneet is a known user of recreational drugs. Navneet’s neighbour happens to be Sarchimoto. Sarchimoto does not like drugs at all. He believes they are evil. He knows that Navneet is a regular user. When he sees Navneet he can attempt to persuade Navneet that drugs are immoral and that he ought not to be using them. Perhaps he might try negotiating with Navneet by offering to pay for Navneet to attend a recovery programme or some such. If Navneet agrees to forgo his drug consumption all is well and good. On the other hand should Navneet decline to do as Sarch would prefer, that is the end of the matter. Sarch can’t threaten him with loss of property, physical harm, lock him up in a cage or assault him or kill him.
In the Libertarian society Sarch is not to undertake any action that involves the initiation of force, fraud, coercion or violence against Navneet. His choices are negotiate or, if he can’t make the deal, walk away. He treats Navneet as another individual, same as he is. He does not treat Navneet as a target who can be coerced.
The Libertarian society does not do without restriction or law. It is very clear what the restrictions are. In fact they are in many ways much more restrictive than what is existent in many locales presently. What is allowed is that each individual gets to choose how to live his or her own life and make his or her own decisions freely so long as he or she allows same to others. That means, what Libertarians call the Golden Rule is always in effect, no initiations of force, fraud, coercion or violence.
Contrast this approach, an approach which many people already live by, with that of Thatcher. She dealt with people by initiations of force, culminating in war. Such an approach does not bring about civilised society. It can’t since it is the very anti-thesis of civilised.
Siotu
P.S. BTW, you ought to read Thatcher’s comment in context. She was not being fatuous. She was raising a serious point (not that it redeems what she did).
Siotu
The libertarianism you describe and the “lawless anarchy” you disparage have much in common, not least in their ahistorical utopianism. No society has ever worked on their principles. What first distinguished troops of humans from troops of other apes? A smidgen of altruism and an ability to learn, from which followed a process of cultural evolution (or a cultural arms race) – customs, norms, ritual, roles, rewards, punishments. No society can ever work without coordination and cooperation. Its individual members must be able to cooperate. Every society enculturates its individual members to that end. Its individual members are defined by their social roles. Your parable assumes this. Yet the conclusion you draw is that the only law is that each decide his own law, as long as so deciding does not stop someone else deciding his own law, as long as etc. A little realism will tell you that there would be no pounds sterling, no buying and selling – indeed, no communal building of delayed-gratification technology such as a car. And even if there were such a thing, If one party happened not to have been brought up a good libertarian, he might simply beat the other party senseless and take his car – and the party of the second part (a good libertarian) on coming back to his senses would have to decide whether to negotiate (!) or walk away. Hobbes’ nasty, brutish parable is a fiction. So too is your Noble Savage (with automobile) libertarianism.
I have read Margaret Thatcher’s comment in context. It is fatuous. It is in fact worse than fatuous.
Siotu
I meant to say…
There’s only so much a moderator can take. So thank you for an interesting exchange. You can have the last word, if you want it, and if the moderator has the stamina.
Completely agree.
I also wonder what child-care/protection woujd look like in such a scenario.
I predict a Pitcairn Island.
IIt’s always seemed to me that guns are to liberals what drugs are to conservatives. Liberals respond to the real damage that guns do as factors that exacerbate (but do not cause) destructive behaviors is the same way conservatives have responded to the real damage that drugs do in exacerbating destructive behaviors – with the impulse for prohibition, enforced by the law and its armed agents, the police. Quick, pass a law! Call the cops! has become a virtually automatic reaction of conservatives and liberals alike, according to their various tastes.
See in-depth analysis of gun rights from a left viewpoint:
The Rifle on the Wall: A Left Argument for Gun Rights.
States with Republican-controlled legislatures have reduced legal restrictions re: gun ownership. Here in Florida, the Republican-controlled legislature enacted a law a couple years ago that prevents any county or city from enacting its own gun restrictions. Hillary has not said anything about restricting 2A and those who make such claims lack credibility.