This article was written for the Unz Review
Russia has often been in the news over the past years, mostly as the demonized “Empire of Mordor” responsible for all the bad things on the planet, especially Trump’s victory over Hillary Clinton, the Russian intervention in Syria and, of course, the “imminent” Russian invasion of the Baltics, Poland or even all of Western Europe. I won’t even dignify all this puerile nonsense with any attention, but instead I will focus on what I think are important developments which are either misunderstood or completely ignored in the West.
First, a few key dots:
1) The Russian intervention in Syria
There are so many aspects of the Russian military intervention in Syria which ought to be carefully studied that I am confident that many PhD theses will be written on this topic in the future. While I have mostly focused my work on the purely military aspects of this campaign, it is important to look at the bigger picture. To do that, I will make the admittedly risky assumption that the civil war in Syria is pretty much over. That is not my conclusion only, but also an opinion voiced by an increasing number of analysts including a Russian general during an official briefing. With the fall of Aleppo and now the latest Syrian-Hezbollah-Russian move to cut off the US controlled forces from their planned move to the Iraqi border, things do indeed looks pretty bleak for the terrorists, the “good ones” and the “bad ones”. In the Syrian-Russian-Hezbollah controlled areas, normal life is gradually returning and the Russians are pouring huge amounts of aid (food, medical supplies, mine clearing, engineering, etc.) into the liberated areas. When Aleppo was under Takfiri control it was the center of attention of the western media, now that this city has been liberated, nobody wants to hear about it lest anybody become aware of what is a huge Russian success.
Even more impressive is the nature of the Russian forces in Tartus and, especially, in Khmeinim. The Russian military TV Channel “Red Star” has recently aired two long documentaries about the Russian facilities in Syria and two things are clear: first, the Russians are going to stay for a very long time and, second, they have now completed an advanced resupply and augmentation infrastructure which can accommodate not only small and mid size aircraft and ships, but even the immense An-124. The Russian have dug in, very very deep, and they will fight very hard if attacked. Most importantly, they now have the means to bring in more forces, including heavy equipment, in a very short time.
Again, this might be a premature conclusion, but barring any (always possible) surprises, the Russians are in, Assad stays in power, the Takfiris are out and the civil war is over.
Conversely this means that: the USA lost the war, as did the KSA, Qatar, Israel, France, the UK and all the other so-called “friends of Syria”. The Iranian, Hezbollah and the Russians have won.
So what does all this really mean?
The most radical consequence of this process is that Russia is back in the Middle-East. But even that is not the full story. Not only is Russia back, but she is back in force. Even though Iran has actually made a bigger effort to save Syria, the Russian intervention, which was much smaller than the Iranian one, was far more visible and it sure looked like “Russia saved Assad”. In reality, “Russia saved Assad” is a gross over-simplification, it should be “the Syrian people, Hezbollah, Iran and Russia saved Syria”, but that is how most people will see it it, for better or for worse. Of course, there is more than a kernel of truth in that view as without the Russian intervention Damascus would have probably fallen to the Daesh crazies and all the other Christian or Muslim denominations more or less wiped out. Still, the perception is that Russia single-handedly changed what appeared as an inevitable outcome.
The Russian success was especially amazing when compared to the apparently endless series of defeats for the United States: Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Libya, Pakistan and now the latest mess with the Saudi blockade against Qatar – the Americans just don’t see to be able to get anything done. Just the contrast between the way the US betrayed Hosni Mubarak with how the Russians stood by Assad is a powerful message to all the regional leaders: better to have the Russians on your side than the Americans.
2) How Russia transformed Turkey from an enemy to a potential ally
To say that Turkey is a crucial ally of the US and a vital member of NATO is an understatement. For one thing, Turkey has the 2nd largest army in NATO (the US being the biggest one, of course). Turkey also holds the keys to the Mediterranean, NATO’s southern flank and the northern Middle-East. Turkey has a common border with Iran and a maritime boundary with Russia (over the Black Sea). When Turkey shot down a Russian SU-24 bomber (with US complicity) the situation became so tense that many observers feared that a full-scale war would break out between the two countries and, possible, the NATO alliance. Initially, nothing happened, the Turks took a hard stance, but following the coup against Erdogan (also with US complicity), the Turks suddenly did an amazing 180 and turned to Russia for help. The Russians were only glad to help, of course.
We will never really know what role the Russians really played in saving Erdogan, but it is pretty clear, even by his own words, that Putin did something absolutely crucial. What is indisputable is that Erdogan suddenly moved away from the USA, NATO and the EU and turned to the Russians who immediately used Turkey’s ties with the Takfiris to get them out of Aleppo. Then they invited Turkey and Iran to negotiate a three way deal to end the civil war. As for the Americans, were not even consulted.
The example of Turkey is the perfect illustration of how the Russians turn “the enemies into neutrals, neutrals into friends and friends into allies”. Oh sure, Erdogan is an unpredictable and, frankly, unstable character, the Americans and NATO are still in Turkey, and the Russians will never forget the Turkish support for the Takfiris in Chechnia, Crimea and Syria or, for that matter, the Turkish treacherous attack on their SU-24. But neither will they show any external signs of that. Just like with Israel, there is no love fest between Russia and Turkey, but all the parties are supremely pragmatic and so everybody is all smiles.
Why does this matter?
Because it shows how sophisticated the Russians are, how instead of using military force to avenge their SU-24, which is what the Americans would have done, they quietly but with great resolve and effort did what had to be done to “de-fuse” Turkey and “turn” it. The day following the Turkish attack Putin warned that Turkey would not “get away with just some tomatoes” (referring to the Russians sanctions against Turkish imports). Less than a year later, the Turkish military and security services got almost completely de-fanged in the purges following the coup against Erdogan and Erdogan himself flew to Moscow to ask to be accepted by the Kremlin as a friend and ally. Pretty darn impressive, if you ask me.
3) Russia and the “Chechen model” as a unique case in the Muslim world
Many observers have commented in awe at the miracle Putin and Ramzan Kadyrov pulled-off in Chechnia: after the region was absolutely devastated by two vicious and brutal wars and after being a “black hole” for assorted terrorists and common thugs, Chechnia turned into one of the most peaceful and safe parts of Russia (even while neighboring Dagestan is still suffering from violence and corruption). I won’t revisit it all and describe all the dramatic changes in Chechnia, but I will focus on a often ignored aspect of the “Chechen model”: Chechnia has become an extremely strict and traditional Sunni Muslim region. Not only that, but it is also one which has basically comprehensively defeated not only the Wahabis themselves but also their Wahabi ideology. In other words, Chechnia today is unique in that this is a Sunni Muslim culture which is strictly Islamic but with no risk whatsoever of being re-infected by the Wahabi virus. It is difficult to overstate the importance of this unique feature.
In the 1990s most of the Muslim world supported the Wahabi insurgency in Chechnia in a completely knee-jerk reaction I call “wrong or right – my Ummah”. This is largely the result of the very sophisticated AngloZionist propaganda aimed at the Muslim world which completely distorted the truth about the conflict taking place there (the same happened in Bosnia, by the way). Nowadays, however, the “Chechen example” is attracting a great deal of attention in the Muslim world and the personality of Ramzan Kadyrov is slowly becoming somewhat of a hero. Even the Saudis who financed a great deal of the Chechen insurgency and who threatened Russia with terrorist attack during the Sochi Olympics, now have to be very courteous and “brotherly” with Ramzan Kadyrov. The truth is that the Saudis are directly threatened by the “Chechen model” because it proves something the Saudis want to categorically deny: the traditional and strict Islam does NOT have to be Wahabi or, even less so, Takfiri.
Think of it: the biggest threat to the Saudis is, of course, Iran because it is a powerful, successful and dynamic Islamic Republic. But at least Iran is Shia and that, in the minds of some Sunnis, is a grievous heresy and almost a form of apostasy. But the Chechens are potentially much more dangerous to the Saudi ideology – they are anti-Wahabi (they call them “shaitans” or, literally, “devils”) and they are willing to fight anywhere in the Muslim world to counter the “good terrorists” supported by the CIA and the House of Saud. Time and time again, Ramzan Kadyrov, and many other Chechen leaders and commanders, have repeated that they are willing to fight for Russia “anywhere on the planet”. They have already been deployed in Georgia, Lebanon, Novorussia and now they are fighting in Syria. Each time with devastating effectiveness. They are true Muslim heroes, recognized as such even by the non-Muslim Russians, and they want absolutely nothing to do with the Wahabis whom they hate with a passion. As a result, more and more people in the Muslim world are expressing their admiration for the Chechen model.
The Chechen model also is noticed and hotly debated inside Russia. Russian liberals absolutely hate it and, just like their western curators, they accuse Kadyrov all sorts of unspeakable crimes. Their latest invention is that homosexuals are jailed and tortured by Chechen security service. This kind of stories might be taken seriously in San Francisco or Key West, but they get zero traction with the Russian public.
Chechnia is ideally located to influence not only the Caucasus but also other Muslim regions of Russia and even Central Asia. The large number of Chechens in the Russian special operation forces also makes them very visible in the Russian media. All this contributes to the high-visibility and popularity of a viable traditional Sunni model which is the exact opposite of what is happening the EU. Let’s compare the image of Muslims in the EU in Russia.
A couple of important caveats first. First, the picture was not always quite as rosy, especially not in the 1990s when Chechens were seen as thugs, brutes, crooks and vicious terrorists. Some Russians have neither forgotten nor forgiven (and, of course, some Chechens still hate Russians for what they did to Chechnia during the two wars). Second, this table compares what I call “ethnic Muslims” in Europe, meaning people coming from Muslim countries or families but who are not necessarily true, pious, Muslims at all. In fact, most of them are not. This is why I put “Muslims” in quotation marks. When I speak of Chechens, I refer to those conservative Chechens who support Kadyrov and his strict adherence to Islamic values. So, in a way, I will be comparing apples and oranges, but I do so because I want to show the greatest contrast possible and I believe that these apples and oranges play a crucial role in the development of the societies they live in now.
| “Muslims” in the EU | “Kadyrov Chechens” in Russia |
| Seen as alien/immigrants/”others” | Seen as neighbors/locals |
| Seen as disruptive of the local culture | Seen as representing a conservative/traditionalist strand in the Russian society |
| Seen as potential terrorists | Seen as the prime victims of, and allies against, terrorism |
| Seen has disloyal to the native people | Seen as the most loyal defenders of the Motherland |
| Seen as criminals and hooligans | Seen as “law and order” types |
| Seen as lazy welfare leeches | Seen as hard-working and skilled businessmen |
Again, these are not scientific findings, they are not backed by careful opinion polling and they do compare apples and oranges. So take them with a big bag of salt. And yet, I think that what this table shows what are deep and contrasting trends inside the EU and Russian societies: the EU is on a collision course with the Islamic world while Russia is not. In fact, Russia represents a model of how a (nominally) Christian society can coexist with a large Muslim minority to the benefit of both communities. Russia also represents a unique example of how two very different religions can contribute to the development of a *joint* civilizational model.
Now an attempt at discerning the future
So let’s connect the dots above: First, Russia is arguably the single most important actor in the Middle-East, far eclipsing the United States. Second, Russia has successfully built an informal, but crucial, alliance with Iran and Turkey and these three countries will decide of the outcome of the war in Syria. Third, Russia is the only country on earth where Sunni Islam is truly safe from the Wahabi virus and where a traditionalist Sunni society exists without any Saudi interference. Combine these three and I see an immense potential for Russia to become the force which will most effectively oppose the power and influence of the Saudis in the Muslim world. This also means that Russia is now the undisputed leader in the struggle to defeat international Takfiri terrorism (what Trump – mistakenly – calls “Islamic fundamentalism”).
The AngloZionist rulers of the Empire have been very clever, if also very short-sighted: First they created al-Qaeda, then unleashed it against their enemies, then they used al-Qaeda/ISIS/Daesh to wreak havoc on a number of secular regimes just to “re-shape” a “new Middle-East” and now they are finally using al-Qaeda/ISIS/Daesh to set the West on a direct collision course with the entire Muslim world (1.8 billion people!) which will prevent the imperial slaves, that is all of us, the common folks living the the EU and USA, from ever looking at the real cause of our problems or, even less so, overthrow our rulers.
Thus we see the disgraceful and, frankly, stupid propaganda against Muslims and Islam as if somehow there was a real Muslim or Islamic threat. The reality, of course, is that all those Muslims who do represent a real threat for the people in the West are invariably associated with western security services and that since 9/11 the vast majority of terror attacks have been false flags. True, there were some apparently “real” (that is: undirected by western special services) attacks, but the number of victims in such, frankly, amateurish attack was minuscule and blown out of proportion.
Just like the “thug life” musical propaganda in the USA resulted in large numbers of US Blacks being killed, mostly by shooting each other, so the “Islamic terrorist” hysteria in the media will result in a few genuine terrorist attacks. But if you add up all the numbers you quickly realize that this paranoid hysteria is completely out of proportion with the real danger.
Somebody wants us all the be afraid, really afraid.
Sadly, this hysteria has affected many, not only in the official Ziomedia, but also in the so-called ‘alternative’ media. The result? Just as the rulers of the Empire need it, the West and the Islamic world are now on a collision course. Who is your money on in this clash? Just take a look at the clowns we have for leaders and tell me that the West will win this one!
The West will, of course, lose this war too, but the consequences of this defeat are not the topic of this article. What I am trying to illustrate here is that the West and Russia have taken to radically different approaches to the challenges of an increasingly more influential Islamic world. I would compare Russia and the West to two swimmers caught in a powerful riptide: the West is determined to swim directly against it while Russia uses this riptide to get where she wants. Again, who do you think will fare better?
But this is not just about the West anymore, this is about the multi-polar world which will replace the current AngloZionist hegemony. In this context, one of the most interesting processes taking place is that Russia is becoming a major player in the Muslim world.
Only 10 to 15 percent of Russians are Muslim, that amounts to about 10 million people. Most Muslim countries are way bigger. And since 85 to 90 percent of Russians are not Muslims, the influence of Russia in the Muslim world cannot be measured by such relatively modest numbers. However, when we consider the central role Russian Muslims play in the Russian policies towards the Caucasus, Central Asia and the Middle-East, when we take into account that Russian Muslims are mostly Sunni and very well protected against the virus of Wahabism and when we recall that traditional Sunni Islam has the full backing of the Russian state we can truly get a sense of the unique combination of factors which will give the Russian Muslims an influence far in excess of their relatively modest numbers.
Furthermore, the Russians are now closely collaborating with Shia Iran and with (mostly) Hanafi Turkey. Most Chechens belong to the Sha’afi Sunni tradition and about half are adherents to Sufism. It might be because Russia is not a majority Muslim country that she is the ideal place to re-create a non-denominational form of Islam, an Islam which would be content to be Islam and with no need to subdivide itself into competing, sometimes even hostile, subgroups.
Russia only has an observer status in the Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) due to the fact that she is not a majority Muslim country. Russia is also a member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) which brings together China, Kazakhstan , Kyrgyzstan , Russia , Tajikistan , Uzbekistan , India and Pakistan. Let’s look at the approximate number of Muslims in the SCO countries: China 40’000’000 , Kazakhstan 9’000’000, Kyrgyzstan 5’000’000, Russia 10’000’000, Tajikistan 6’000’000 , Uzbekistan 26’000’000, India 180’000’000, Pakistan 195’000’000. That’s a grand total of 471 million Muslims. Add to this figure the 75’000’000 Iranians which will join the SCO in the near future (bringing the grand total to 546’000’000) and you will see this stunning contrast: while the West has more or less declared war in 1.8 billion Muslims, Russia has quietly forged an alliance with just over half a billion Muslims!
Russian nationalists (as opposed to Russian patriots) did try their best to infect Russia with her own brand of Islamophobia, but that movement was defeated by an absolutely uncompromising stance by Vladimir Putin himself who went as far as stating that:
“I need to say that, as I have repeated many times before, from its beginning Russia had formed as a multiconfessional and multiethnic state. You are aware that we practice Eastern Christianity called Orthodoxy. And some theorists of religion say that Orthodoxy is in many ways closer to Islam than to Catholicism. I don’t want to evaluate how true this statement is, but in general the coexistence of these main religions was carried out in Russia for many centuries. Over the centuries we have developed a specific culture of interaction, that might be somewhat forgotten in the last few decades. We should now recall those our national roots.”
Clearly, as long as Putin and those who support him remain in power, Islamophobia will have no future whatsoever in Russia.
[Sidebar: while this is never mentioned anywhere in the western literature, there are real political prisoners in Russia and there is one group of people which the Kremlin has truly persecuted on political grounds: the Russian nationalists. This topic would deserve an article on its own, but here I will just say that since Russia is a state where the rule of law is official policy, the Kremlin has to resort to some creative ticks to jail these nationalists including accusing them of “attempting to overthrow the state by using crossbows” (I kid you not!). Nationalists are often persecuted on charges of violating laws against hate speech, for distributing extremist literature, etc. Basically the authorities harass them and try to disrupt their activities. Again, the western champions of civil rights and various Putin-haters never speak about these very real political persecutions in Russia. Apparently western human rights organizations live by the motto of the “Angel of Death” of the French Revolution’s infamous “terror” period, Louis Antoine de Saint-Just, who famously declared “pas de liberté pour les ennemis de la liberté” (no freedom for the enemies of freedom). It is clear that as soon as Putin came to power he immediately realized the potential danger to the Russian society posed by these nationalists and he decided to clamp down on them every bit as hard as he did on the Wahabi recruiters and neo-Nazis propagandists in Russia.]
Furthermore, Russia has now become the most influential member of the SCO which represents the strategic interests of over half a billion Muslims worldwide. In the Middle-East, Russia has made an amazing comeback – from a quasi-total departure in the 1990s to becoming the single most influential player in the region. Russia has successfully convinced two very powerful potential competitors (Iran and Turkey) to work together and now this informal alliance is in a very strong position to influence the events in the Caucasus and Central Asia. At this point it is already clear that what we are seeing is a long term process and long term strategic goal of Russia: to become directly involved in the struggle for the future of Islam.
The struggle for the future of Islam
The Islamic world is facing an immense challenge which is threatening its very identity and future: the Wahabi-Takfiri ideology. That ideology, by its very nature, represents a mortal threat to any other form of Islam and a moral threat, literally, to every non-Takfiri Muslim living on the planet. The Takfiri ideology also represents a real existential threat to all of mankind, very much including Russia and Russia cannot simply sit back and wait to see who of the AngloZionist West or the wannabe Caliphate of Daesh will prevail, especially since the two are also loacked in a weird symbiotic relationship between the western deep state and special services and the Takfiri leaders. Furthermore, assuming the West is willing to seriously fight terrorism (and so far there is no sign of that whatsoever) it is also obvious that Europe is useless in this struggle (due to an acute lack of brain, spine and other body parts) and that the USA, being protected by large oceans, are not facing the same threat as the states of the Eurasian landmass. Russia therefore has to act on her own, and very forcibely.
This is not a struggle which will be determined by military means. Yes, being willing and capable of killing Takfiris is important, and Russia can do that, but at the end of the day it is the Takfiri ideology which must be defeated and this is where the Russian Muslims will play an absolutely crucial role in the struggle for the future of Islam. Their status as a minority in Russia actually serves to protect Russian Muslims simply because there is absolutely no possibility whatsoever for any type of Wahabi Islam to gain enough traction in Russia to threaten the state. If anything, the two wars in Chechnia are the best proof that even in the worst possible conditions Russians will always hit back and very hard at any attempt to create a Wahabi state inside, or next to, Russia. President Putin often says that Russia has to sent her forces to fight in Syria not only to save Syria, but also to kill the many thousands of Russian citizens who are currently in the ranks of Daesh before they come back home: better to fight them there than to fight them here. True. But that also means that Russia will have to take the ideological fight to the rest of the Islamic world and use her influence to support the anti-Takfiri forces currently struggling against Daesh & Co worldwide.
The future of Russia and the Muslim world are now deeply intertwined which, considering the current disastrous dynamic between the West and the Muslim world, this is a good thing for everybody. While the leaders of the AngloZionist Empire are using both Russia and the Muslim world as bogeymen to scare their subjects into submission to the international plutocracy, Russia will have to become the place where the Islamophobic myths will debunked and a different, truly multi-cultural, multi-religious and multi-ethnic civilizational model offered as an alternative to the monolithic Hegemony dominating the world today.
Modern secularist ideologies have given mankind nothing except violence, oppression, wars and even genocides. It is high time to kick them into the trash heaps of history where they belong and return to a truly tolerant, sustainable and humane civilizational model centered around spiritual, not materialistic, values. Yes, I know, for the media-brainwashed zombies out there religion is not exactly associated with the ideas of tolerance and compassion, but that is just the inevitable consequence of being exposed to particularly nasty and hypocritical forms of religion. That, and a basic lack of education. These things can be remedied, not so much by debating them ad nauseam, but simply by creating a different civilizational model. But for that Russia and the Islamic world will need to look inside themselves and focus on healing their own (still numerous) pathologies and dysfunctions (especially spiritual ones) in order to create such a spirituality-centered alternative to the Almighty Dollar. In the words of Saint Seraphim of Sarov, “acquire a peaceful spirit, and around you thousands will be saved”. I think that this is a future worthy of fighting for.
The Saker
Breaking News:
Syrian AF jet shot down by US-Coalition south of Raqqa.
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201706181054746884-usa-coalition-shoots-down-syrian-aircraft/
And–
Iran fires missiles into Deir ez Zor ISIS targets in retribution for ISIS Teheran attack.
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201706181054746460-iran-syria-missiles/
So, the US is getting the wider war it wants.
And it will be a missile war.
Russian missiles will soon be added to the mix.
I think the recent show of Iskander tests in Russia and Kazakhstan is a signal of what ground to ground force may be coming.
Mattis and McMaster want to defeat Iran and Russia right now. They think they can turn the Syrian War from defeat to victory.
And the aim of the first round is to get Assad into a direct Syria vs US conflict. No more proxies.
Regime change is their first step. Then Russia and Iran left with a lost war.
Russian relationship to Islam is the same as Islam relationship as to any christian Europeans be it London, Berlin or Moscow, Muslims will rape white christian Russian women and colonize Russia by immigration and high birthrates.
Just like they do everywhere. Naturally liberals will tell Russians that that Islam is good for Russia and that Russia needs more Muslims, much more Muslim immigration from Asia, and that without Muslim immigration Russia will collapse, that Islam and Russia are deeply connected and that Islam is a religion of peace except for a few extremists, the exact same lines every European hears from liberals, no matter if it is USA, Germany, UK or Sweden. And while liberals spew their lines, civil war, mass-rape and ethnic displacement of the native populations continues in every European country.
Removed. Please stay on-topic. Mod
Muslims will rape white christian Russian women and colonize Russia by immigration and high birthrates.
Reading these words I just wonder if you realize how totally stupid and ignorant your comment will look in the eyes of most people who read this blog. For a second, I thought of removing it, but then I realized that it has its value because it shows the kind of aggressive ignorance Russians and Muslims will have to deal with in theirs struggle not only against evil, but also against plain and simple stupidity.
And while liberals spew their lines, civil war, mass-rape and ethnic displacement of the native populations continues in every European country
Setting aside the typical hyperbole of the militant ignoramus, what is happening to Europe today is *entirely* self-inflicted, a grand case of karma on a continental scale. It was all predictable, and many indeed have predicted what would happen, including the late Col. Gaddafi which the Europeans overthrew in an act which will go down in history as one of the most idiotic ever.
As for the rapes, they would not have happened in the Europe of before WWII. But now, in the Europe of Conchita Wurst you reap what you sow – a continent were man can’t even defend their own women. Feminism triumphant indeed!
European men ought to travel to Chechnia to take lessons in “how to respect your women and act like a man”. Come to think of it, European woman also ought to travel to Chechnia to take a few lessons in “how to be tough and respected yet feminine and beautiful”.
Imagine that – Muslims giving lessons to secular Europeans on how to act like real men and women! Wouldn’t that be a sight!
:-)
I grew up in the American South, just before and around the time of the civil rights movement.
What’s striking to my ears is that this is exactly what the racists in the South used to say about African-Americans. This apparently is fill-in-the-blank in terms of the claims by racists. Those _________________ will rape white women and ________________ will over-populate society due to their high birthrates.
This previous commenter of yours did apparently only get about 66% on the racist training test because they did not memorize the lines about ______________ all being criminals and thieves.
Standard boiler-plate stuff from racists I’m afraid. And as always, it only works with people who’ve never met any of the _________________ . Because as always, when you get to know real human beings you find that they are much the same as the rest of the humans you’ve known. Some good, some bad.
The Saker:
You’re stepping into the trap of the xenophobes.
1. Yes, there have been rapes.
2 No, they aren’t on that large scale as represented by those xenophobes.
Setting aside the typical hyperbole of the militant ignoramus, what is happening to Europe today is *entirely* self-inflicted, …. It was all predictable, and many indeed have predicted what would happen, including the late Col. Gaddafi which the Europeans overthrew in an act which will go down in history as one of the most idiotic ever.
As for the rapes, they would not have happened in the Europe of before WWII. But now, in the Europe of Conchita Wurst you reap what you sow – a continent were man can’t even defend their own women. Feminism triumphant indeed!
It’s true that smashing Libya into pieces caused even more refugees. Without the destruction of that country there would still have been refugees – stopped at the borders of Libya. The articles of Peter König – you can read them on your own site – provide lots of insights into the interrelation of our Western capitalism with its supply chain and the losers at the other end of the supply chain. Can you guarantee that all of your material possessions had been produced under fair conditions (starting with obtaining the raw materials and ending with the means of production)? The US and Europe caused for quite some suffering on the African continent. Land-grabbing by large multinational agribusinesses also causes for people to flee in desperation. The Swiss company Nestlé holds water rights in areas where already impoverished people live. Additionally it pumps the last remaining drops out of the earth, so that previously existing wells don’t work anymore. Dumping the overproduction of European farmers – in order to keep prices in a profitable range – onto African markets doesn’t help their local farmers as well. Were you willing to live and raise a family in such and environment? If I were facing such a decision I might decide to move to some different place (maybe even to a place where I would be able to support remaining family members).
With regard to the pussyfication of Europeans I would recommend you to have a very close look at the snowflakes in the US, with all their safe spaces on campuses. In Europe you’re still free to make some inappropriate “explicit” statement, whilst you’re facing litigation in the US – sexual harassment.
Do you remember all those headlines about rape in the US army or several cases of campus rape in the US not that long ago? Japanese women aren’t really fond of all those GI’s. (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/japan-us-military-related-rapes-deaths-okinawa/). As far as I have heard from acquaintances dating in the US works differently than in Europe. According to those acquaintances having sex at the third date seems to be okay. Europe is different in that aspect. Meeting for a third date is not an invitation for sex on the woman’s site. I’ve witnessed myself US guys grabbing asses of European women. Thanks to feminism those girls were able to tell those guys to xxxx (censored).
Imagine that – Europeans giving lessons to uptight Americans on how to act like real men and women! Wouldn’t that be a sight!
I almost forgot: Excellent article.
“Thanks to feminism those girls were able to tell those guys to xxxx (censored).”
Nope. I have never described myself as a feminist, but the chap who grabbed my behind got one blade of a pair of office scissors through his hand.
Old fashioned femininity teaches a woman to smile sweetly and offer medical assistance while the offender is trying to remove the old-fashioned hat pin from his whatchamacallits.
Feminism did NOTHING for women, but turn them into whiny blobs of protoplasm without a shred of agency.
Every single skill I have was taught to me by men – literally from milking cows to arguing a difficult case in court. Now I am doing the teaching and my job includes teaching young women to be women and young men to be men.
With regard to the pussyfication of Europeans I would recommend you to have a very close look at the snowflakes in the US, with all their safe spaces on campuses. (…) Do you remember all those headlines about rape in the US army or several cases of campus rape in the US not that long ago?
You are 100% correct! My daughter is on one of these campuses and she regularly reports that they are filled with creatures whose gender is impossible to guess and who act like overcooked noodles. It’s all true. As is your comment about rape in the US armed forces. But what you are missing is
1) US campuses are far from representing the USA. Much (most?) of the country still is populated by much “simpler” and thus healthier people. As soon as you leave the big cities and go to small towns you get a much tougher and traditional societies were self-reliance is nurtured alongside a strong community feeling.
2) The US military is far from representing the USA. This is especially true on the level of the private solider many of which see the military as a way to stay out of jail. True, there is a culture of “kill, kill, kill” which fosters violence and rapes but, again, just the fact that military units are a *mix* of people makes them very different from US small towns were people are bound together by a common history.
My point? The US society is as sick as the European one, agreed. But us campuses and military bases represent extremes which are not representative of the rest of the USA. The kind of actions with immigrants committed in Germany would be met with a volley of gunfire in many US towns, especially in the southern states.
Cheers!
The Saker
For the people who cannot directly form a view of the new pussyfication, I would like to give a 5-minutes video about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCtv4O9tv1g
Meet and greet the ‘social justice warriors’. We have them in Europe too.
(My personal favourite is that whining woman about the ‘gender of the airco’)
I’m glad my son studies at a Technical University. They are somewhat more down to earth there.
Greetings, Rob
Small town U.S.A. is best U.S.A.
well done Saker for not taking it down,remember thats what they want you to do it’s a form of self censorship!
I browse both left and right wing press, in a variety of languages.
Do not read left-wing press and blogs if you want to be informed about islam; do not read right-wing press and media if you want to be informed about climate change.
“Muslims will rape white christian Russian women and colonize Russia by immigration and high birthrates.”
LOL. Stupid!
I am a Indonesian muslim. I live in Russia for 3 years. There is nothing to do with your statement. We live peacefully, respect each other between Orthodox Christian and Muslims. We often give some gifts each other.
I didn’t know what to think when I read his comment, as a muslim who has followed false flags in Europe, the so called rapists were all false flags, meant to demonize muslims.
My explanation is different: the rapists were ‘Muslims’ in the sense that they came from Muslim countries or families, but they were in reality secular folks. As somebody who lived right next to a big mosque most of my life I can attest that the mosque-attending Muslims are the single most law-abiding, courteous and polite people I ever met (well, with the exception of Muslim diplomats some of whom were rather arrogant). Alain Soral in France calls these pseudo-Muslims “Islamo-racaille” or “Islamo-thugs” as opposed to real, God-feating, faithful. He makes the point that no Muslim goes to the Friday prayers in the morning and then proceeds to participate in a gang-rape in the afternoon and he is 100% correct.
The problem is that the word “Muslim” can be seen as meaning an ethnic/social category and a religious one. I am quite sure that there was 0% Muslims getting drunk and raping women in Europe simply because that both such actions are strictly haram. But it is true that 100% of these rapists came from Muslim countries, had Muslim names and would say that they are Muslim when arrested.
Then, of course, we have the Takfiris which are also “Muslim” in some sense even though they want to convert or murder any and all Muslims who do not agree with them. And the Saudi Wahabis are “Muslims” too, even if their brand of Islam would have remained a minor offshoot of mainstream Islam had it not been for the US CIA and the “brilliant” idea of unleashing them against the Soviets in Afghanistan.
This is why we need to carefully define what we mean by “Muslim”. Unless we do that any statement such as “Muslims do X” or “Muslims are guilty of Y” can be BOTH true and false, depending on what we mean by “Muslim”.
My 2cts.
Cheers!
The Saker
“…the rapist were ‘Muslim’…”
Reminded me of something
‘When Imam Ali ibn Musa Ridha (peace be upon him) was requested to make his way to the city of Toos (present-day Mashhad) and was ordered to be the heir-apparent of Mamun ar-Rashid, a group of the Shia came to see him and requested permission to enter into his presence. The Imam asked his servant who the people at the door were, to which the servant replied, “They claim that they are the Shia of Ali.” The Imam did not give them permission to enter into his presence. This event continued on the second day, third day, and so on. For a period of two months, every day they would come, ask for permission to see the Imam, to which he would not give them the permission. On the final day, this group of people told the servant, “Tell the Imam that if we are to return back to our home town after being in the city of Toos for two months, and the people ask us if we had a chance to visit the Imam or not, and we tell them that he did not give us the permission to meet him, then no one shall respect us.” The servant went to the Imam and told him what these people said, and at this point, the Imam permitted them to meet him.
After they entered into the presence of the Imam and wanted to sit, the Imam did not give them the permission to sit down. These people protested and said, “O Son of the Messenger of Allah! What have we done to you that you are acting in this way towards us?” The Imam replied to them, “You claim that you are the Shia of Ali, whereas the true Shia of Ali are people like Imam Hasan, Imam Hussain, Abu Dharr, Salman, Miqdad, and Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr. These people replied, “We ask forgiveness, what else can we say?” The Imam replied to them, “Say that you are the lovers of Ali.” When the people said this, then the Imam ordered his servant to show these people kindness. (Bihar al-Anwar, volume 65, p. 157)’
http://www.islamicinsights.com/religion/clergy-corner/the-true-followers-of-ali-ibn-abi-talib.html
Sometime we aren’t even entitled to our own titles, I should have chosen a diff pseudonym
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2011/10/25/the-doenmeh-the-middle-easts-most-whispered-secret-part-i.html
Are the Wahhabi actually Muslims, or are they a sort of mixture of Judaism and Islam, or are they Jews pretending to be Muslim – or what?
It seems that Turkey is also dominated by some such mixture?
I agree, Saker, but we should not rule out the possibility of these incidents of sexual harrasment is a provocation. In Germany they experienced that about 1000 young men from Muslim countries, simultaniously decided to go to the same concert and assult women. -If a small group of say less than 50 did this, I could accept that it was young men with a secular mind-set, who got drunk and had misunderstood the cultural codes in Western Europe (not wearing niqab does not mean “free for all” here), but when 1000 do the same, there has been an element of coordination. And to coordinate 1000 people takes an organisator. In other words, someone wanted this to happen.
Who? That is answered by asking: To what end, what came out of it? And that would have to be increased islamophobia. Increased islamophobia means further isolation of particularly young men from Muslim countreis, who will be alianated and fell that they are left outside society (more than young men usally do). -They will then be more open to the Daesh recruiters, who will provide them with an explenation to their situation, and a remedy (fight for Islam).
I am not saying that this is how it happend, it is just a possibilty, but I am saying that it should have been investigated further. -Because, in Germany, it was too organized to be seen as something that “just happend”. The extent of the incidents in Sweeden also seems similar.
And thank you for not deleting the islamaphobic comment, it is far better to allow them to shout their bit, and then refute them.
The German police publishes an annual report on crime.The report for 2016 lists crimes by migrants, by country. If you look at violent crime by migrants, you see a mix of Muslim (Turkey, Syria) and Christian countries (Poland, Romania). But the countries of the 2512 migrant rapists are all Muslim countries, with Afghanistan at the top.
(Source: Bericht zur Polizeilichen Kriminalstatistik 2016, page 89-91)
Dear Anonymous.
Let me paraphrase well known citing:
The Christian comes to a guru and tells: Muslims killed my son. I don’t know what to do.
The guru answers: Find a child, a child whose mother and father was killed and raise him as your own. Only be sure that he is a Muslim and that you raise him as one.
…just think about this … put your self in place of these people … slowly observe your live while raising this child … look at the people who will not understand you … at all odds you and your child will go through …
Nothing is more truthful for Christian faith than doing like this. Nothing is more truthful for Muslim faith than doing reverse in the same spirit. And nothing is more truthful for an Atheist than doing this in the same spirit.
When child is raised, perhaps she/he be able to answer to you comment better …
http://www.moviequotedb.com/movies/gandhi/quote_29107.html
You confuse immigrants with the Muslim native populations of Russia such as Tatars etc. there are many mixed marriages that hardly fit your idea of “rape”; these families have same number of kids as other Russian families:1 or 2. Few if any animosity between Russians and these ethnic groups. There is a concern about labor immigration from Tajikistan and other Middle Asian countries that formerly were parts of the USSR and Russian Empire; but for God sake, they come to RF for work, not welfare money. Thus their status is very vulnerable which makes them be more careful about how they “behave themselves” (not very well, unfortunately). They settle in Russia, all over, but most of them speak Russian even if rudimentary, and share some common cultural treats with RF citizenry based on their, in fact, “Soviet” origins, and foremost, they work meaning they merge into society benefiting from its wellbeing. The flood of Islamic immigration into Europe will stop instantly as soon as EU insane politicians cancel welfare for non-citizens. I mean, cancel them for legal residents, too, at least for those who are not married to citizens, and don’t work. Vote these clowns out of power.
Very interesting and informative article! The contrast between the insightful statesmanship of Putin (which comes through so clearly in his talks with Oliver Stone) and the bizarre and dysfunctional lunacy of western leaders could not be greater. Russia is emerging from the terrible suffering and trials of the 20th Century as a true leader and exemplar of a more just and peaceful world. I say this as an American deeply disappointed in the quality of our national leadership.
Thank you all for your insights. Regarding the “quality of our (American) national leadership” I am not only deeply disappointed, I am utterly horrified. A former game show host (an actor) and crooked real estate developer with the most sordid past imaginable is “president”. He is surrounded by a cloud of simpering sycophants that at times horrify me even more. The freight train from hell has pulled into the station, dear friends, and you don’t really want to see or smell what kind of toxic sludge is getting dumped off. Meanwhile insane agendas are being driven forward that are guaranteed to make anything that has happened so far pale by comparison. Brace yourselves–Hell isn’t something in the future, it is here and now. I strongly suspect that I am not going to make it through these crazy times. I have learned that when judgment day happens, the innocent are swept up and punished right along with the guilty– and with that in mind, I conclude with a quote from Arthur Silber: “We have murdered an entire country, and an unconscionable and entirely unforgivably huge number of innocent Iraqis. We have murdered them, without even the merest shadow of a justifiable reason. Remember it for next time. And unless our entire world-view is challenged and rejected, there will be a next time. This is the single fact of which you can be absolutely certain.”
In response to point 1) and the recent Qatar brouhaha; In 1980 Saddam Hussein was tasked by his Western Masters with the destruction of Iran, with the prize of getting a hold of Iran’s Oil and Gas wealth as bait. When it became obvious by 1988 that he failed, it then became only a matter of time for his masters to dispose of him for his failure.
Likewise, Qatar was tasked with (in concert with other Western Bankers forces) overthrowing Assad and destroying the integrity of the Syrian nation with the prize of a gas pipeline to Europe as bait, and now that Qatar and its allies have failed, perhaps the Western Masters have decided it is now time to dispose of another agent who failed in accomplishing his orders.
Good point about Hussein, but I think the template gets broken with Qatar. I think it is more likely that Qatar itself has seen the future and made its own shift to the other axis. It sees from the Syria experience that it can never have its own pipeline rammed through that country, and understands that actually Iran and Qatar could cooperate with the largest gas field in the world, which they share, and have a pipeline to Europe in cooperation with the winners of this struggle – Iran, Syria, Turkey, Russia, Lebanon (and eventually, we trust, Palestine) – and the rest of the multi-polar world. For this, it is being punished by Saudi Arabia, the US and Israel – but all three of these nations are on the wrong side of history, and we already see their failures to subdue Qatar.
I and others have surmised this switch by Qatar, but Pepe Escobar in his brilliant latest article seems to take this as fact, just by the way.
It’s a funny old world when things go multi-polar.
One quick question:
You have said previously that any true believer is necessarily a fundamentalist: those who don’t believe are damned by their unbelief. How does this provide a model for a tolerant society? By false consciousness on all sides? A rictus grin of forced politeness to those we know to be cast into everlasting damnation by the one true God they turn their back on?
I believe that Orthodox Christians and Muslims, while both being very conservative are tolerant of each other. Except for Takfiri-wahabism.
What a great article! Brought me to tears.
Right now, there is a need to outline a new concept of the Eurasian society for the next hundred years. I would use this article as a roadmap.
In regard to your question, Lindsay. “How does this provide a model for a tolerant society? ”
Take as an example the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, which is a political. economic and defense union that has been built on the same spiritual and philosophical principles that the Saker formulates. As you can see these principles are able to unite nations of almost entire Eurasian continent.
http://eng.sectsco.org/news/20170609/289274.html
These principles are harmonious with our societies and our people. Gradually an entire Eurasia, with the exception of the European peninsula, will be united by them.
Russia is a Heartland of Eurasia. Russia is also a model for a tolerant society. It’s simultaneously democratic and traditional. It’s religious and secular. It’s a Christian country that is a home for Muslims and Buddhists.
The intolerance is coming from one direction, from the liberal camp of militant Trotskyists. After living under Trotskyists’ dictate for over a century, we are truly done with them.
You have said previously that any true believer is necessarily a fundamentalist
Correct. Moderation is something needed in a bowel movement. When discussing God and any other absolute then only a total commitment to the Truth will do: “So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth” (Rev 3:16)
those who don’t believe are damned by their unbelief
When did I EVER say anything like that?!
How does this provide a model for a tolerant society?
Three reasons:
1) If there is no God everything is permissible
2) Only submission to God makes us truly free
3) God is the only reality – all else is illusion
By false consciousness on all sides? A rictus grin of forced politeness?
Don’t you see that this kind of hypocrisy, in fact, any kind of hypocrisy, only makes sense when you do NOT believe in an all-Seeing and all-Knowing and ever-Present God? For a believer being hypocritical is self-defeating :-)
to those we know to be cast into everlasting damnation
We know no such thing. Only God knows what happens inside each individual soul. This is why He commanded us not to judge
the one true God they turn their back on
Turning your back on the only Reality is punishment enough. There is no need for more.
What a sad and deeply mistaken view you have of religion. I sincerely feel sorry for you.
The Saker
To be excluded from God’s love for all eternity is to be damned.
To avoid such exclusion, certain duties, practices and beliefs in this life are stipulated.
The various religions each stipulate duties, practices and beliefs that are not mutually consistent.
Each such religion believes that adherents of other religions are turning their backs on the stipulated duties, practices and beliefs, and are therefore damned. This is perhaps consistent with tolerance of a sort. (The liberal version of tolerance does not deal in such absolutes. It does not envisage an eternity of unendurable torment for those who disagree with its definition of what God requires of us.)
For a true believer there is a duty to convert the unbeliever. Anything else (like tolerance of their error) is hypocrisy and a failure to do God’s will.
The three reasons for thinking fundamentalism a good model for a tolerant society?
1. is simply false.
2. has an nice air of paradox but may simply be incoherent.
3. is a bare assertion and as such not up to the task of persuading anyone not already persuaded; it does not warrant belief even in those who already believe it; in a previous piece, your attempt at a more substantial argument was to tell us that you feel that there is this thing called Love.
At the very least, you have not provided any coherent reason to accept the conclusion that the only civilised alternative is a society that is founded on the precepts of one religion but tolerant (in some attenuated sense) of others. A range of other options is surely imaginable.
“I pity you” and such like is best left in the playground.
Most of your categorical statements are just strawman arguments.
All I can say is that you know very little about religion, and most of what you think you know you don’t understand. That won’t change unless you realize that you need to *learn* about this, starting with the basics.
“You are just ignorant” is, alas, on a par with “I pity you”.
they sure are both equally true
As it happens, I have been studying religion as many years as you, although perhaps practising fewer.
you have no idea what you are talking about here :-)
If “straw man” then easily refuted – wouldn’t take much longer than telling me I’m ignorant and to be pitied. It would also be altogether more constructive. Hey-ho.
Yeah, but I have better things to do :-P
“You don’t know what you’re talking about” is a playground retort (like “you’re one with bells on” and “my dad’s got a bigger…” and…). I’ve noticed it applied more than once here, to deflect any invitation to debate from anyone not avowedly religious. You “have better things to do” than explain or defend what you assert. What then? Your assertions are to be taken on faith? Take it or leave it? Surely you think them more robust than that? I know that you have extolled the virtue of the faithful cloistering themselves. We’re finite and fallible. A closed mind is not an asset.
Few notions are more abused than ‘tolerance’. In modern parlance it means ‘you must never tell me that my whims are not the only truth and go FY if you do’.
In one of the Oliver Stone episodes with Putin, Putin talks about creativity and how as a CEO of Russia there is a certain flow to each day in whom he meets and what is said in order for his purpose or daily work of art to be finished. I think he was telling Stone why he could not necessarily “be on time:” or take “time off”. Would an artist stop painting a picture just because it was dinner time? he said.
This the urge that will inform the human future.
a Poem from Hafiz
The Same Suntan
Burn every address for G-d.
Any Beloved who has just one color of hair
One gender, one race.
The same suntan all the time,
One rule book.
Trust me when I say,
That man is not even
Half a god
And will only
Cause you
Grief.
Extraordinary Brilliance!
I ask readers to go to Google Earth, and see for yourselves what Grozny (Chechnya) looks like today. Totally re-built on the direct orders of Putin. High rises, beautiful mosques and now every Chechen has a better standard of living. The young , upon marriage, get an apartment from the authorities, and it truly is a success story indeed.
Let me add that Muslims and Slavs, the ‘Russ’ have been fighting and dying together since many centuries ago. Astute Russians know that the Muslim Golden Horde of the Mongols, under both Ozbeg Khan, and Berke Khan(both devout Muslims) marched together with patriotic Slavic Russ princes known as the ‘Muskovites’, against enemies internal and external. Together they repulsed and reversed deep incursions into Russia proper by Lithuanians, swept aside the barbaric Khazars, subdued traitorous Russian nobles who wanted to sell out Russia proper to the west, returned Crimea to Russia and essentially made Russia whole. After all was achieved, the Muslims handed Russia back to its true peoples, the Slavic Russ and their wise, patriotic princes and nobles.
So, in a lot of ways, Islam paved the way for what Russia is today, the age that brought Ivan, Peter, Catherine and finally Putin.
Now, Russia is returning the favor to the traditional Muslim world. In effect, coming to the rescue of a rather ill Muslim world infected with Takfirism and Wahabism. I believe Russia and Putin were literally heaven sent. The bond between the Eastern Orthodox Russian peoples and Muslims who are traditional will get more and more stronger as Muslims worldwide are increasingly finding voids both scholarly and governance by todays corrupt Muslim regimes like Saudi Arabia, and even Al-Azhar university is weak and rendered ineffectual by Saudi money and blackmail of the Egyptian government.
He who wins over the traditional Muslim world will win in the 21st century. That’s whats at stake, and I firmly believe the Russians and Chinese understand this precisely. Wahabism and Takfirism are not as mainstream or powerful as some may think. Its still a fringe section of the Islamic world. And once the Wahabi tools of the west get eradicated in Syria and Iraq, Wahabism and Takfirism will have suffered a serious blow.
Both Islam and Eastern Orthodox Russia have the same enemies, share the same interests and will only get closer together. Back in the 80’s , Muslims were taught to despise all things Russian because we were told they were atheistic and anti-Islam. But that doesn’t jive anymore, as we Muslims are waking up to the fact that the Eastern Orthodox are the true Christians today and a lot like us Muslims in many ways.
As for the clash of civilizations, between the west and Islam, this is instigated and perpetrated by Talmudic Khazarian-blooded Jews who essentially rule the west. Its their game, but it will be a losing proposition.
How on earth is the west going to subdue the traditional Muslim world when they cant even subdue a few guys wearing beach sandals and bed-sheets in Afghanistan? 17 years and no real results to speak of.
We know full well who the diabolical folks are who drag our great religion into the mud on western media. We understand whom these people are who sow discord and animosity among peoples. And once the details of the ‘Grand Bargain’ being hatched up in Washington, Tel-Aviv, London and Paris, the Islamic world will take it as a supreme insult. The House of Saud and Trump, Netanyahu want to essentially sell out the Muslim people by getting us to accept Israel the way things stand now, with no concessions for the Muslim Ummah. We Muslims are paying attention, believe me.
We understand full well that for these said Jews and their western Christian Zionist lackeys, its a zero sum game, nothing short of a campaign of annihilation they have planned for us and are in the beginning stages of implementing. So lets wait for the ‘Grand’ announcement, and it will alieniate the vast majority of the worlds Muslims, as we firmly believe in justice and our Quran tells us to fight oppression in all its forms. The Muslim world will then gravitate to Russia, who shows us respect and brotherhood.
Great article Saker, as always I’m with you my friend. Salam. God bless.
Wa aleykum us saalam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh to you, my friend, Ramadan kareem and Allah hafiz!
The Saker
Barak Allahu feek. Thank you Saker.
May our supreme God ya hafiz on our peoples whom together will strive in solidarity, peace and justice. May Allah solidify the mutual respect and brotherhood we share. Ameen.
Asalam wa alekum wa rahmet Allahu wa barakatu. Take care. And be excited about the good things to come.
Quran-Surah(Chapter) 5- Al Maeda
(76) Say: O People of the Scripture! Stress not in your religion other than the truth, and follow not the vain desires of folk who erred of old and led many astray, and erred from a plain road. (77) Those of the Children of Israel who went astray were cursed by the tongue of David, and of Jesus, son of Mary. That was because they rebelled and used to transgress. (78) They restrained not one another from the wickedness they did. Verily evil was that they used to do! (79) Thou seest many of them making friends with those who disbelieve. Surely ill for them is that which they themselves send on before them: that Allah will be wroth with them and in the doom they will abide. (80) If they believed in Allah and the Prophet and that which is revealed unto him, they would not choose them for their friends. But many of them are of evil conduct. (81) Thou wilt find the most vehement of mankind in hostility to those who believe (to be) the Jews and the idolaters. And thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe (to be) those who say: Lo! We are Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud. (82) When they listen to that which hath been revealed unto the messengers, thou seest their eyes overflow with tears because of their recognition of the Truth. They say: Our Lord, we believe. Inscribe us as among the witnesses. (83) How should we not believe in Allah and that which hath come unto us of the Truth. And (how should we not) hope that our Lord will bring us in along with righteous folk? (84) Allah hath rewarded them for that their saying – Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide for ever. That is the reward of the good.
-Here, Allah(God) speaks of the humble Eastern Orthodox Christians who are indeed humble and patient in the way of God. Not the arrogant Christian denominations of the west, whom are indeed carrying the torch of Zionism among other false courses. This of course is my personal way of interpreting it, may Allah guide me in the right direction.
Inshah Allah.
Lovely article – Saker sees beyond the fog, quite refreshing in this world of information(lies) overload and confusion.
Interesting statement of Putin’s – “some theorists of religion say that Orthodoxy is in many ways closer to Islam than to Catholicism”
It’ll be interesting to look up what precisely those ‘theorists’ have been saying about Orthodoxy and Islam. Whether that might mean culturally, or structurally, or somehow doctrinally? I highly doubt it’s the latter, so I infer that it means that like Islam, Orthodoxy doesn’t have a central figure such as the Pope to unify them. So emphasis is then placed on the State apparatus as the binding factor. Which would be true for both Russian Orthodox and Russian Muslims.
Given how the Vatican is currently too closely and openly aligned with the globalist left, and given Pope Francis’ penchant for undoing doctrine much to the horror of faithful Catholics, I don’t believe the Russian Orthodox are ignorant about his character. We of course also know the influence of Islamic politics over the Eastern/Western schism. Would Russia and Russian Orthodoxy see Islam as a better religious/political ally than the Catholic Church? Under the current climate, I couldn’t blame them. Many Catholics even view with suspicion the ‘half-resignation’ of Benedict XVI, which if true could point to the possibility of Francis being an Anti-Pope. But that is for a future Council to investigate and judge.
It all seems to fall into place in light of the prophecies of Fatima. Even Vladimir Putin sounds more faithful and God-fearing in the Oliver Stone interviews where he stood up against gay marriage, while the Catholic prelates overwhelmingly cower in fear, or are likely homosexual infiltrators themselves.
I pray God reunites and heals the schism under the direction of the Holy Mother of God, so that in fulfillment of prophecy Russia may be converted and become a blessing to the world.
Interesting statement of Putin’s – “some theorists of religion say that Orthodoxy is in many ways closer to Islam than to Catholicism”. It’ll be interesting to look up what precisely those ‘theorists’ have been saying about Orthodoxy and Islam. Whether that might mean culturally, or structurally, or somehow doctrinally?
Neither. Doctrinally, a SUPERFICIAL look at Orthodox/Patristic dogmatics vs Latin/Scholastic dogmatics would give the IMPRESSION that Orthodoxy and Catholicism are closer to each other than Islam and Orthodoxy. However, a more profound analysis would show that there is an infinite and uncrossable chasm separating Orthodoxy from BOTH Islam and Latin/Scholastic dogmatics. I would be tempted to say that the three religions are dogmatically equidistant but that makes no sense since dogmatic differences are, by definition, absolute. There are no “small heresies” and “big heresies”, there is only orthodoxy (small ‘o’) and heterodoxy.
However, civilizationally, in terms of ethos or discourse, Orthodoxy is much closer to Islam and even Hinduism than it it so Latin Christianity (I once even wrote a Master’s thesis on this topic!). Orthodoxy is mystical, ascetic and existential. When we disagree with Muslims we disagree using a common language. It is my subjective feeling that Orthodox Christians especially share a common vocabulary with the Shia and the Sufi, probably less so with the more legalistic forms of Sunni Islam. With the Latins we have to re-define each word as we don’t even have a basic vocabulary in common. Worse, when we use the same words we really give the a profoundly different meaning.
For example, you immediately bring up concepts like the Pope as a unifying figure. To an Orthodox Christian that very concept is infinitely absurd, not even worthy being refuted, since the only criterion of unity for an Orthodox Christian is unity in belief (orthodoxy) and unity in practice (orthopraxis).
The Latin left the Church 1000 years ago, without ever as much as a look back, and for the past 1000 years they have worked to distance themselves even further from their ancient and now totally forgotten roots. We quite literally have nothing in common any more, not even the very basic building blocks of our theology or daily spiritual struggles. In the word of Saint John the Theologian and Evangelist “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.”
As for Muslims, yes, we have our fundamental and irreconcilable differences (I explain them here: /russia-and-islam-part-eight-working-together-a-basic-how-to/) but we are all children of the same history and we have lived side by side for centuries and while our RULERS and STATES have often gone to war with each other, there is no inevitability in this conflict (I explain that in this podcast: /saker-podcast-13-sakers-views-on-islam/).
The very nature of the Papacy makes it an existential threat for us as it always only had two choices to offer to us: subjugation or extermination. Sure, nowadays the badly beat up and weakened Papacy is trying to regain some influence by pretending to want a brotherly relationship with pretty much any religion out there, Orthodoxy included, but most of us are too well read to fall for this primitive and temporary deception. History has taught us a lot, even the recent one and we all feel the Latin “love” coming towards from Poland or the Uniat Ukraine (the Ukraine, by the way, is a creation of the Papacy, for which we, Russians, are not exactly grateful to the “Holy See” for).
The best we can hope for (and for some reason never get) is just for the Latin to finally just *leave us alone*. If they did that we would really be infinitely grateful for it. But even as far from Russia as Fatima the Latin’s just don’t seem able to friggin forget about us. They are still focused on Russia and the rest of the Orthodox world as if it had anything else to offer to them that a reception into the Church by baptism…
And since the Popes have now declared that they are waiting for the same Messiah as the Judaics (whom we AND the Muslim believe will be the AntiChrist/Dajjaal) I am not holding my breath. The Latins will only leave us finally be after the Last Judgment. Until then, we will be struggling against all their attempts at subjugating us, ad majorem Dei gloriam, of course.
The Saker
This is interesting what you said.
I would say that the same is also true in Catholicism, that there are no small or large heresies. Heresy is heresy. Truth is truth and errors are errors.
But as many well note, the current Catholic clerics, dating to the 1900s, have been trying to soften their language. This could be attributed to the Vatican II Council and emphasis on ecumenism rather than conversion as Christ commanded. There is much turmoil within the Catholic Church, a spiritual schism if you will, between Traditional Catholics and what is often called the Novus Ordo sect if we were to divide all into two camps.
One of the conflicts is precisely over the precision of language. Are you familiar at all with what Pope St. Pius X condemned as ‘Modernism’? Essentially a new form of sophistry that masks heresy under the guise of orthodoxy. A forked-tongued manner of speech where the closeted heretics affirm what they deny and deny what they affirm all in the same sentence. Like doublespeak. Rather than answer straightforward questions of morality etc. they will instead devolve into over-long flowery diatribes, disobeying Christ’s instruction to let their ‘yes’ mean ‘yes’ and their ‘no’ mean ‘no.’
This seems to be at the root of the current crisis that Catholic Church faces, though these same men will deny that anything is wrong even as the house burns down around them. Again this gets into the prophecies of Fatima that from what information we can gather alluded to an apostasy that the Catholic Church will face, that involves dangers facing the dogmas of the faith, the occurrence of a bad Council, and the destruction of the liturgy. That the Church will face in itself a ‘suicide’ self-inflicted by its own members. Benedict XVI being one of the last to have read the buried 3rd Secret alluding to the future where the Church will be reduced to a remnant, and undergo a ‘Passion’ of its own where all will seem lost just as on the day the Apostles fled when Christ was handed over to be crucified.
This sort of imprecise language or at times outright heresy has been seen in the words and official Papal documents put out by Francis. But he is only the latest incarnation of a manifestation of Modernism that has long been running where the words used by unfaithful men do not mean what they once did. Like a legalistic sleight of hand, they change the definition for themselves while keeping the veneer of the orthodox sound and form.
So if I have understood you correctly, the reason that Orthodoxy has more in common with Islam, comes down to the commonality of the meaning and precision of the words as they have long historically and culturally been used? So if the Western Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox come together then the hurdle that must be overcome is the linguistic definitions used must be ironed out without the intention to deceive under guise of language barriers and nuances. Essentially dialogue and coordination is easier thanks to a common tongue and cultural heritage.
While we will not agree now over the issues of the Papacy I will just add my thoughts that aside from of course the unity in belief (orthodoxy) and unity in practice (orthopraxis) which is correct, that in order for this to occur means naturally that we gather together in all practical forms in order to have that unity of belief and practice. Just as councils of the past declared, and historically we know that the Western and Eastern sides were in communication with each other to try and make this work, made more difficult under the Eastern occupation of Islam, whereas the Papal Crusades eventually pushed them back, as well as conflicts interests of power with regards to the Emperor and the like which are too detailed to get into here.
But in the end Christ is of course the head of His Church. Our King. And regardless of how much we like to emphasize multiculturalism and democracy now, that does not change in Heaven. Christ is still the King over Creation which every nation and monarch or leader on Earth must bow to. And His Kingdom is modelled on that of the Davidic one of Israel. He as the Head. His Holy Mother as the Queen, and thus just as with Israel, a representative of the King with the power to command, open and shut the doors of the King’s household, this we see as the duty given to the principle Apostle – St. Peter, and his successors. This remains true even as the current present-day occupant does all he can to precisely change that, ironically, to something akin to that of the Orthodox. A decentralization from the Papacy (except when it’s convenient for him to exercise that power), and more emphasis on individual separated local Bishops councils, who would all contradict one another and in practice lose unity of both belief and practice, which is what is occurring over Amoris Letitia, the document where Pope Francis seeks to destroy long-held discipline over divorce and remarriage, again ironically, as one modernist Cardinal Kasper has stated, to try and get closer to what the Orthodox do for allowing second-marriages, though it goes destructively further…
These things we see as what the Mother of God at Fatima referred to as the “errors of Russia” (aside from of course the errors of Marxist Communism) that would spread throughout the world leading to war, and culminating in a divine chastisement by God. A final battle against the Devil, that would begin over marriage and the family. Something that can only be averted by a miracle.
While you might say that you just want to be ‘left alone’, for us the commission still remains that to go out and look for the lost sheep and to bring all to Christ under one faith, one practice, one head who represents Christ on Earth as a visible order, no different than in Biblical Israel or the Temple and the successors of Moses prior to the fulfilment of the old Covenant and the opening of the new one.
If you get the time I would look forward to more articles from you on the cultural perspectives of Orthodoxy in Russia and its relationships to its neighbours and Islam. Thanks.
’…. for us the commission still remains that to go out and look for the lost sheep and to bring all to Christ under one faith, one practice, one head who represents Christ on Earth as a visible order….’
Why is so dificult to You to accept *leave us alone*?! Ortodoxy is incompatible with Papacy, which, by the way, you never will give up, so we can only say goodbye to each other. Look in past, for example, look what Catolic church has done to Serbs in Croatia in WWII. Official doctrine was 1/3 of population (most brutaly) to kill, 1/3 to CONVERT, and the rest to expel. Even today, those Serbs who rest in Independant Croatia are under enormous preasure, they even today hide from neighbours when visit ortodox church in Zagreb. And You talk about some ecumenism. Finally, catolisation of Serbs in Croatia undergo all the time, today to.
A quote:
According to Milojko Budimir, President of the Association of Croatian Refugee Associations (http://srbin.info/2014/04/22/pravoslavci-iz-hrvatske-vise-se-ne-izjasnjavaju-kao-srbi/ 22.04.2014.): extremely worrying that a large number of those who celebrated the Orthodox Easter in Croatia were no longer pronounced as Serbs, and pointed out that it has information that from the war (1990 – 1995) to today in the territory of that country 30,000 Serbs have been converted.
Budimir said that the recently retired Metropolitan of Zagreb-Ljubljana, Jovan, had the information that 30,000 Serbs were converted in Croatia after the Operation Storm in 1995. He stressed that the results of the last census, which Serbs have largely renounced their national identity, are especially worried about.
– Especially worrying is that at the last census, of the 200,000 listed, about 40,000 declared themselves Serbs of the Ortodox religion, and 160,000 that they were only Orthodox faiths. This means that, after forming the so-called Croatian Orthodox Community, it is for the Serbs to point out that they are Croats of Orthodox faith – Budimir warned.
So, please: *leave us (ortodox sheeps) alone*.
Wow, what a response from Saker!!! Thank you dear Saker for clarifying with this response.
Truth be told, my wife and I have muslim friends who we have much more in common with than protestant or catholics!
Most traditional people with traditional family values can and do unite together against the godless, sinful apotasized western world!
Friends, lets be honest. When the western world produces the likes of Clinton, Trump and Epstein we know that is is doomed. God will not tolerate sodomy for long.
I will gladly stand united with anyone who resists antiChrist.
Love to all!
Johnno:
We of course also know the influence of Islamic politics over the Eastern/Western schism. Would Russia and Russian Orthodoxy see Islam as a better religious/political ally than the Catholic Church?
There isn’t just a Eastern / Western schism. There’s also a Western / Western schism. 2017 marks 500 years the publication of the Ninety-five Theses. Despite some ecumenical marriages you’ll hardly find Catholic priests who will marry a Catholic to a Protestant. Protestants are also denied to be godfathers of children born to Catholics.
It seems to be some Catholic thing that Russia has to be consecrated by the Pope (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consecration_of_Russia). A while ago I had seen some documentaries on youtube about this topic. Another strange thing was that those documentaries and many commenters were so focused on Mary, mother of Jesus. She seemed to be even more important than Jesus. Shouldn’t be the main focus on Jesus and God?
The involvement of the Catholic Church in the banking sector (Vatican Bank) is irritating. It’s also odd to read about all the real estate possessions of the Catholic Church. Contrary to assumption that apartments are rented to those in need to affordable prices, the Catholic Church participates in the game of rent extraction. They’ve also been involved in a publishing company and in a book chain (selling sex toys as well). The aforementioned facts don’t imply that the Protestant Church is any better (inviting war criminal Obama as speaker to the Protestant Church Congress).
Maybe there’s some truth to the speculation about the Whore of Babylon Mother (Catholic Church) of Harlots (Protestant Church). Maybe the Whore of Babylon is even the Christian Church itself with the Harlots being the offspring (Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants, Baptists, …). Many institutional Churches have been guilty of fornication with the wealthy and powerful, instead of providing assistance to those in need.
Well, the schism between the Orthodox and Catholicism is not as comparable to that of the Protestant revolt.
The Orthodox still have Apostolic Succession of priestly orders, still hold dogmas in union with Rome, and also importantly still observe the Sacrificial Liturgy and the actual True Presence of God in the Eucharist.
Luther rejected all this. The most that can be said is that the Lutherans and every further rupture of Protestantism right down to the numerous separate dis-unified sects calling themselves Christians are at least validly baptised for the most part and maintain some dogmas of the faith.
While the Catholic Church has made outreaches to the Protestants in the spirit of ecumenism and even gone to lengths to deceptively censor itself on doctrine and even destroy its own liturgy to make it more appealing to protestants, the Orthodox have been spared this travesty. By God’s own designs this could be an inevitable blessing. Whereas the current Pope actually celebrates the anniversary of Protestantism that tore Christianity apart and which continued to splinter after every man could be his own Pope just because he finally had a translation of the Bible.
So rightfully I must say that marriage between Catholics and Protestants be discouraged because if neither spouse believes what the other believes then the marriage will be practically difficult especially when it comes to raising children, though protestant/catholic marriages in a Catholic Church can occur and be valid and even get along, though this is usually because you’ll find that neither one of them really actually cares about their religion, so even the Catholic side is usually more Protestant than Catholic anyway. Though there are exceptions. And a Protestant cannot obviously be a godfather to a Catholic child because a Protestant obviously does not hold the Catholic faith and therefore cannot swear an oath before God to raise the child a Catholic. So it is entirely sensible for both sides that this is a bad idea on every practical level. That’s just how it is so I don’t see this as anything controversial to say.
With regards to Fatima, it is not strange that documentaries discussing it are focused on Mary, because it is after all about an apparition of Mary and it would be strange not to discuss her and her role. Both the Eastern and Western Apostolic Churches rightfully revere her and both hold common doctrine about her importance. As did also Martin Luther for that matter. Her importance and role is also borne out in Holy Scripture, as the living Ark of the Covenant and the Queen of Heaven in Christ’s Kingdom modelled on Israel’s Davidic kingdom. The Mother of the King is the Queen. She is sent as an ambassador on Earth by Christ Himself who for His own purposes wishes that we establish devotion to her. The idea being that like the saints, she intercedes on our behalf along with our prayers. This is a role the Queen played as the Mother of Solomon highlights when she petitioned the King on behalf of others. And Mary, as both the Catholics and Orthodox hold, is the highest of all human creatures being free from sin and is the greatest of the saints.
A time comes when the wickedness of men grows so great, that God Himself refuses to hear their prayers and lamentations. See the first chapter of Isaiah if you do not believe this. But at times, an intercession is made by someone God does love and respect. Like Moses for example who routinely begged for mercy for the Hebrews. So too, Christ, who loves His Holy Mother, makes her an ambassador to plead on our behalf to Him. Unlike the Protestants who believe the heresy of ‘faith alone’ without practice and reject the Sacraments and Priesthood Christ established, Catholics and Orthodox in addition to our prayers to Christ, knowing we are poor sinners unworthy of God’s generous love and affection, also invoke the aid of the saints and Mary who are already perfected in Heaven to speak on our behalf before God’s throne where the prayers and intercessions of the Saints are offered before Him as Incense (See Revelation). Protestants also do this when they ask for and pray for each other. The Saints in Heaven are members of the Church Triumphant and are more alive than we are and likewise also want to help us get into Heaven.
I am well aware of the various scandals within the Catholic Church. These scandals are as old as Judas Iscariot. Part and parcel of being in the Church on Earth. The tares and the wheat grow together. As for speculations about the whore of Babylon, these are as numerous as there are divided tens of thousands of Protestant sects all holding their own individual heresies and personal interpretations. This could well extend to the borders of Rome and the Vatican as physical places. After all, Fatima implies apostasy in Rome when its 3rd Secret begins with the words “In Portugal the Dogmas of the Faith shall always be preserved…” The rest of the text has never been revealed. And apparitions have long warned about the corruption in the Church and amongst the priesthood. Anyone who reads anything about the End Times in Revelation is well acquainted with it. It wouldn’t be the first time the Papacy had to get the heck out of Rome, or the first time there was confusion over who the real Pope is. This confusion is only likely to get worse and grow like an avalanche going downhill.
This is why there is no human action that can reverse where we are headed overall, as all of you are aware over the insanity of America’s and the MSM’s actions. It is diabolical. At some point it would be entirely useless to continue dialogue with a force that has no desire save to see you subjugated and destroyed and lies about anything no matter how absurd they sound. No politics. No diplomacy. No economic or environmental planning is going to help us out of this situation. It is human sin, and humanity is in a spiritually schizophrenic state, and no doubt the Devil will do all he can to destroy the Church on Earth and mar her and make the image of the Bride of Christ as unrecognisable as the Whore of Bablyon. Fatima still places emphasis on the Papacy and the Bishops of the world who are united to him. The Consecration of Russia is first and foremost as act of obedience to God’s wishes, and is a solution that is based solely on an act of faith in God alone; like Moses being instructed to stretch his arms over the Red Sea. God for his own divine purposes wishes to make Russia an instrument of His will. Who are we do deny Him just because we might be American or European? If God wants to anoint David, we do not ask for Saul.
So those of us who follow the full Message of Fatima leave the details to God’s wishes without regard for global politics and globalist human plans the way the current Vatican is obsessed with. Though we do follow world events from a related interest. We understand that God will heal the world only through a divine Miracle. We’ve had precedent for this before, like in Mexico with Our Lady of Guadalupe with St. Juan Diego and the miraculous Tilma and the miraculous conversion of millions of natives to fill in the numbers of the Church to account for the millions who would be lost due to the Protestant revolt.
But indeed, as you rightly point out, our Churches have overall been corrupted, and are guilty of fornication with the devil and princes of this world. We live in truly apocalyptic times.
@Would Russia and Russian Orthodoxy see Islam as a better religious/political ally than the Catholic Church?
This is indeed a very delicate question which beset Russia (and her thinkers) for centuries. It amounts to questioning the mission of Russia as upholder of the Christian Truth and protector of the Church which she assumed through her Baptism: “Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven” (Matthew 10:32-33).
It puts in question the Truth of Christianity altogether if we put it on equal footing with beliefs that denies it. This should be the yardstick with which to measure the attitudes towards Catholics and Islam or Judaism.
Western Christians, with all their distortions of the Christian Truth, did not yet throw overboard the central tenet of Christianity that “the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth”…”the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name” (John 1).
“These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth” (John 17:1-17)
The Quran, which is the foundation of ‘undistorted’ by the Wahabists Islam, explicitly and emphatically rejects that Truth, moreover it condemns the ones who uphold it. It is frankly troubling to see that one can expect a sincere rapprochement as long as Muslims are encouraged to stick to these fundamental beliefs of their religion. I can see that some Muslims already rejoice that the Orthodox look ‘a lot like us Muslims in many ways’. But if it is to ever be a ‘unity’ it must be in proclaiming with one mind “The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, the one in essence and undivided Trinity”. In other words Muslims should go through the regenerating waters of Baptism.
On the other hand, it is no less true that the ‘West’ is on the brink of totally rejecting the Truth of Christianity.
No ‘conversion of Russia’ to Catholicism (as is the wrong interpretation of the message of Our Lady of Fatima), would stop it, but the ‘conversion’ of the West to the wholeness of the Christian Truth, which is still kept unadulterated in the Orthodox Church.
Islam also has its part in this affair, considering it’s influence over the schism, encouraging it in order to prevent any further military threat from the Western Church to save the Eastern part it conquered. Fatima was the name of one of Mohammed’s daughters. But the area of Fatima was not named after her, but a Moorish Princess of the same name, daughter of the Muslim prince of Alcácer do Sal, who was captured and fell in love with a Christian knight. She converted and was baptized as Oureana. This same muncipality of Ourem, named after her was where the visions of Fatima took place. So it is fascinating how the Orthodox, Catholics, Muslims and Russia are all central players here with regards to Fatima’s prophecies and current world affairs.
With regards to whether it is the Orthodox or the Catholics who need to reconcile, I would say that it is both. The unification with Orthodoxy to the Catholic Church under the Roman Pontiff, which is why at Fatima the Queen of Heaven requested the Pope and the Bishops united with him to together perform this Consecration publicly. Not the Pope alone, and not the bishops by themselves. But rather them under his command.
As well as that the Catholic Church, now in a state of widespread apostasy in its ranks, return fully committed to orthodoxy. That is by upholding everything infallibly taught, and also strengthened in practice and in spoken word. Something that it started to more outwardly reject with the non-binding ‘pastoral’ Vatican II Council in favour of Ostpolitik and Ecumenism and the softening of its tongue to the Truths of the faith. Which is why Vatican II declared no new dogmas and is likely why the 3rd Secret was kept under seal to be revealed in 1960 as it referred to it. But Pope John XXIII, an optimist of worldly affairs, decided to bury it and convene the Council left unfinished by Vatican I, which Pius XII didn’t want to do knowing there were heretics amongst the ranks of the bishops. But John XXIII would only see his schemas thrown out, Modernists hijacking the Council, and apparently died in bed crying for the Council to be stopped, so they say…
Paul VI further lamented the state of affairs after himself bringing a suspected Free-mason Anibale Bugnini back, after John threw him out, to create the Protestantized Novus Ordo Mass. He cried that the results of the Council instead somehow allowed the smoke of Satan to infiltrate the Temple of God. Then there is the curious case of John Paul I who died within a month of his election, having been told by the Fatima Visionary Sr. Lucia herself that he would be elected Pope long ago, and is said to have stated afterwards that he wanted nothing to do with the Vatican, because the devil was in the Vatican. All this time Communist infiltrators were entering the seminaries as the Church was further along in its opposition to Russia under John Paul II on behalf of his native Poland. These began to occupy influential places in the seminaries and amongst the ranks of the bishops and are credited for the creation of Liberation Theology that tried to marry Marx and Christ together.
While the Orthodox Church has maintained a large part of Tradition that the Catholics also held, at least on paper and by infallible council if not in practice by many heretical clergy, the Orthodox have kind of been stuck in the past according to Orthodox commentators who say they lacked an Emperor to convene a Council as some say is required, and some will even say that in theory it is possible to even now accept even what Catholic Councils after the schism defined, though they cannot just declare it so, and there remained contested issues such as the Filioque etc. which were resolved at a time and then broken away again over a long and complicated history.
This is why I believe the only way to put this whole issue to rest is that the Consecration actually be done as requested without any silly excuses from the Vatican and let the chips fall where they lie either in favour of the Catholic Church’s or of Orthodoxy’s position. Whatever the miracle is to be it will settle the matter for us all.
According to some sources, it seems a Russian Ambassador on behalf of Putin actually inquired about this with Pope Francis, but was roughly told “We do not discuss Fatima.” Given that there are many curious doubts about Francis’ election and Benedict XVI’s abdication. We know that Francis has an ecumenistic bent that is contrary to Christ’s commission, and this refusal might be in part because he himself hates the idea of conversions and believes in some Free-masonic invisible One World Religion where in some mysterious way all religions are united and that God saves everyone regardless. No doubt he probably imagines he is appealing to the Orthodox in this way, but his overall heretical belief also extends to the Muslims, the Protestants and other religions, and thus in an attempt to please everyone, only ends up pleasing no one, and most importantly offends God Himself for violating the First Commandment.
I do not see any progress between the Orthodox and Catholics under him, assuming he is the Pope with conspiracies aside. Perhaps he or another will fulfil that released vision released by the Vatican about a Bishop in White with the appearance of the Holy Father being gunned down in the streets of a ruined city. The Vatican alleged that this was the 3rd Secret even though it is demonstrably not according to the many testimonies concerning it, nor can John Paul II be made to fit the fulfilment of that vision as the Cardinal Secretary of State tried to impose, but as per Cardinal Ratzinger that interpretation was not something officially stated for Catholics to believe.
The Mystery continues… and we are all in this hell. May God deliver us.
Inshallah (God-willing), we the Muslims and our Orthodox Russian brothers will unite not only into an alliance but into a true brother-hood of mutual respect and friendship.
Only a strong bond as this can truly unit nations to fight side-by-side with one another and to sacrifice and die for each-other.
Any-other type of alliance based only on pragmatic economic and political interests is not enough to truly form an alliance where people fight and die with one another against the Evil Corrupt Western-Zionist alliance.
We the Muslims and our Orthodox Christian brothers are not afraid of dying for our people, for our regions, for our freedoms and dignity. We have proven this in the past and we will prove it in the future.
The Chechens who are fighting for truth and justice, and against the oppressors….they are truly the example of what Muslims are like who are willing to fight and die for the cause of justice.
Our religion of Islam makes it compulsory to fight in the form of the pen, with words or with the sword against oppression, against injustice, against corruption, against hypocrisy. The fact that the Arabs have abandoned this principle…..is what has caused their devastating situation they have found themselves in, this is of course with the help of the Western powers.
Curious to know what will come out of Saudi war on Qatar. Already Turkey wants to send its troops to Qatar Iran offered her to use its air space, Found a new ally in Russia…let’s see.
Excellent article Saker. Lucid and coherent. The fightback against despicable Wahhabi inspired takfiri (kharijites) has begun.
Muslim birthrate is around 5 times greater than UK average. This is not a matter of hate but of fact. In the area in which I live the white population is moving into minority currently. This makes me angry, I admit, though I direct my anger at our “crap” (I apologise for the expletive) government. In our country the “rape” problem is serious; though this has as much to do with political correctness: The cultural Marxist poison in use all over the European political space to enable the Kalergi agenda of 1922. Chancellor Merkel herself is a holder of the Kalergi prize.
Unlike most Europeans, while seeking a path I read the Quran, along with Daoism, the Christian bible, and some budhism. I settled for God. He has my love and my faith. My path has led me to refuse the “middle men” and to simply live my life and do no harm.
My view is that this world should have no borders. Period. Slavery should end. Period.
Men are as men do.
My friend, I am sure that you would be singing a different song if 40 to 45% of the population of Russia were Muslims.
You know this as well as I do.
It’s okay when they comprise 10 to 15%, but when they get up to about 40% is when things start to change. Just look at Bosnia and Kosovo.
Of course, that is why Russia will never take Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, and the other “stans” back in.
Russia will be content to control them as much as possible (which is okay, because otherwise the USA would build military bases there), but if Russia were to take all of them back in, even with their immense natural resources, they would bring the Muslim population up close to 40% of the total, and then… well… let’s just hope that never happens.
This world needs Russia and China – they are the only two countries who are keeping the world afloat today. Without Russia and China, the world would become a nightmarish hellhole worse than 1984.
Your dreams of a tolerant future are just that, dreams. You can try to be compatible all you want, but after a certain point your compatibility will become your weakness.
You know this better than I do.
Agreed, were Russia to remain a democracy, then a 40%+ Muslim minority would force Russia to implement Sharia law, no more vodka and no more pork.
So that is the likely prospect with democracy, but what does the situation look like with an Empire?
With an Empire, the vote doesn’t count, so it does not matter how many Muslims live in the Russian Empire. The vote is not in the Koran so it might in fact even be anti-Islamic. With Empire the Muslims can be legislated to their own areas where they can practice their own traditional ways, so they can’t invade traditional Russian Orthodox territory. With Empire all that is expected is service in the armed forces and the payment of taxes, if the Russian Muslim’s don’t like it then they can move to Western Europe where Sharia law will reign, except there they’ll have to accept Jewish overlordship.
So its a win-win situation for both the Orthodox and Muslim Russians, the Orthodox will have more soldiers available to defend the realm and the Muslims will have better governance, health services and economic prospects.
A very balanced and informative read, Saker.
One suited in tone for the Ramadan season.
Thank you.
It is certainly interesting to compare the Chechen 2.0 reconstruction as a values-based and focused non-Wahhabi Sunni emergence.
One only needs to compare the right-centred male-dominant culture with the degenerate situation described (I assume somewhat correctly) in Germany under Merkel’s EU-eunuch ‘PC’ model to see the difference in outcomes.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-18/germany-police-powerless-against-middle-eastern-crime-gangs
The ‘future’ of a lot of things is in the balance now (more so now perhaps then normal) — and the long game is the right one, imo.
Growing organically step-by-step (i.e. non ideologically) towards the the right mix of diversity and variety based on common principles of peace, respect and tolerance (& trade) is the way to go.
As a now 60+ white anglo-male who studied religions in the ’70s; eventually adopted the Islamic (largely Sufi) framework in the ’90s; and suffering the usual discriminations in work and life still had time for numerous adventures seeking knowledge and wisdoms of various cultures (my local is not too distant from Indonesia, a very tolerant admixture of the type you describe above) I can say what you write rings true. Not only could one then see the likely directions and malaise setting in during the 70-80s in the Western domains (e.g. see this for a useful deconstruction — http://podcasts.joerogan.net/podcasts/bret-weinstein ) but also the only most useful starategy being one of sittiing it out and ‘surviving’ in one’s local environment to effect the very words you conclude with — “acquire a peaceful spirit, and around you thousands will be saved” (Saint Seraphim of Sarov). And with special attention to intergenerational issues.
My only close contact with the Orthodox world you speak of was through the bard G.I. Gurdjieff whose writings in those times led me to see things differently and eventually find the ‘rope’ to begin the climb out of the well. One thing comes to my mind from now somewhat distant memories: that of his (Gurdjieff’s) thoughts on the three basic sexes. In German there is male, female and neuter, although in English the usual male-female binary predominates. In his way of describing he alludes to ancient traditional societies and one of these stories involves the notion that properly orientated and organised males and females have specific active and receptive (respectively) roles and responsibilities. And more importantly in our current context, the ‘eunuchs’ (my label for the 3rd sex) need only get out of the way and sit separately so as not to interfere. And by ‘eunuch’ I mean those who are cut off from their sexual biological identity by some means or another. Whether this is a physical thing or a psychological/psychic blockage below the ‘Hara’ centre is not important here.
What is material is that we now live in times (at least in the degenerate West) where these eunuch types are now dominant in the control rooms and interfering with the natural and organic emergence of the sustainable futures. Men and women of responsibility for the future cannot think straight. What is behind this state of affairs I’ll leave to the imagination. I’ve yet to read a better expose of the fundamental dynamics of the challenges before us.
What has become more clear to me (and hopefully others) is the fundamental issue of forming a new narrative from this mess. One that can see healthy contrasts between the hypocrisies of the UK-May and German/EU-Merkel ‘constructions’ and what you set out clearly here between Russia- Putin and Chechen-Kadyrov. What we need is a universal definition of what the criminal-classes are doing and how/why. Then each domain can act according to what works for them and their cultures. The criminal classes running the USA today, established as the elites, emerged from the prohibition gang cultures and clan warfare clearly described as emerging today in the ZH ‘Berlin’ article (linked above).
That Wahhabism is at the core of the rot in Islam today is not hard to see if the eye is trained well. That it is a lie (or at least the Bush-hand-holding Saudi elite) is clear — one only needs to understand the role of gold in signaling this: these so called muslim men in their gold braided dresses (thobes) and alleged golden toilet seats signal to all what their core values are — simultaneously to the other criminals that they are top/dominant and to the religiously aware that they ignore the apparently wise prohibition on males in Islam adorning themselves (like women) with such. This the Truth is displayed on the faces of these false hypocrites for all to see. Only ignorance and msm can obscure it through distraction and promoting gangster values.
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2011/10/25/the-doenmeh-the-middle-easts-most-whispered-secret-part-i.html
Perhaps the Saudi “royal” family are not actually Muslims at all?
Ideology and adherence to religious morals will not save Russia from the menace of capitalist globalisation.
Resistance is ineffective without taking control of the economic system and rejecting neoliberal capitalist globalisation. There is no hope without economic sovereignty and a popular/national/state control of the means of production.
Sooner or later, Russia will have to decide. Either to break free from the globalised capitalist economic system or to fully integrate as a vassal.
A return to a neo-soviet economic model and practices is a possible answer. But who will manage to do it?
Don’t overlook the invaluable role of former US President Obama, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, and the other idiot neo-cons such as Senator John McCain in making all this possible.
A cabal of crackpots and cranks who upended decades of US policy, supported radical Islamist “moderates” to overthrow the regimes of staunch allies, and created the chaotic conditions which Putin’s Russia skillfully exploited.
For US imperialists takfirism is a tool to destroy any movement or state that could threaten Western colonialism and capitalism.
“Cold War, Holy Warrior
Ike was president. Washington was desperate for Arab allies. Enter an Islamist ideologue with an invitation to the White House and a plan for global jihad.
…
For an organization established as a secret society, with a paramilitary arm that was responsible for assassinations and violence, to be characterized as a harbinger of a rebirth of Islam may seem odd. But such a view was entirely in character with U.S. policy at a time when virtually anyone who opposed communism was viewed as a potential ally. Whenever I interviewed CIA and State Department officials who served in the Middle East between World War II and the fall of the Soviet Union, they would repeat, almost like a catechism, that Islam was seen as a barrier both to Soviet expansion and to the spread of Marxist ideology among the masses. “We thought of Islam as a counterweight to communism,” says Talcott Seelye, an American diplomat who, while serving in Jordan in the early 1950s, paid a visit to Said Ramadan. “We saw it as a moderate force, and a positive one.” Indeed, adds Hermann Eilts, another veteran U.S. diplomat who was stationed in Saudi Arabia in the late ’40s, American officials in Cairo had “regular meetings” with Ramadan’s then-boss, Muslim Brotherhood leader Hassan al-Banna, “and found him perfectly empathetic.””
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2006/01/cold-war-holy-warrior
Beautiful article, hanks Saker!
Everything that is said about Russia and Islam is worth gold.
Everything that is said about the West and Islam – not so much.
The main problem: calling the West the West is at this stage in history not meaningful anymore.
Actually it is misdirection. It is wrongly assuming and promulgating the idea that there are intact well-defined nation states with functioning political, judicial, economical, educational systems. This is unfortunately not the case anymore and wishful thinking at best.
To have a chance ‘to save the West’ we have to start thinking and analyzing in completely new terms, with novel models about politics, economics, and everything.
I am surprised, actually shocked, that this is not done more.
The United States for example, can much more accurately and meaningfully be described as a corporation along the lines of say the British East India Company than as a nation. ‘Governance’ expresses the current legitimization of the chain of command much more precise than ‘Government’, etc.
I hope younger researcher start thinking along these lines even if there is money in it. Only this way, young friends, can you be at the service of your people, your nation, the Western world.
Make no mistake, in the West there is no way for a Putin to come accidentally to power and safe the day. Stop dreaming right now. The scandalously under-investigated structure I currently call Zion is the guarantor of that.
Wow! I am mezmerised by the depth and clarity of this profound piece. I will be sharing it far and wide as an ecpression of gratitude.
Comment on Turkey-Russia
I think US had the Russian ambassador assassinated to sabotage relations between the two countries. Luckily it didn’t work and they were able to move past it leading to the pretty successful Astana peace talks.
When I see orthodox christians (in Russia and Greece) entering their churches with respect and grace and behaving different from latin christians I can clearly see a resemblance with real Muslims. That is one thing they have in common.
And: both believe there is only one God! So it must be the same One! Why isnt it possible to tell it to them? There is just a different approach to worship his One God
Andre Vltchek on June the 14th wrote the following article :
“U.S. “Jihadi Express”: Indonesia – Afghanistan – Syria – Philippines”
In this paper, he is stressing the influence of Indonesia on the terrorism (Wahabi-style). In his meeting an Afghan alumni, it is obvious that this man, concerning his faith, is not accessible to rationale, he sees his enemy as being communist or from Shia. It looks like, that in Indonesia (the largest muslim country) people are being indoctrinated by the Wahabi ideology and the Western media, therefore an almost infinite source of future terrorists.
I don’t see how Kadyrov would be able to reverse that tendency. So I think the Saker is somehow too optimistic.
Let’s avoid talk about rape; let’s talk religion instead.
In The Netherlands a man damages a cross by the roadside. https://www.1limburg.nl/gemaskerde-man-met-kapmes-gaat-helemaal-los-op-kruisbeeld
In Germany someone damages sculptures of saints http://www.wn.de/Muensterland/2016/11/2588612-Zerstoerte-Skulpturen-Polizei-vermutet-religioes-ideologischen-Hintergrund
urinates on crosses https://www.merkur.de/lokales/erding/gedenkkreuz-wird-wurfobjekt-6279180.html
and still in Germany, someone cuts down crosses on mountaintops.
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/muenchen/wolfratshausen/vorkarwendel-gipfelkreuz-am-schafreuter-erneut-umgesaegt-1.3237533
In neighboring Austria “a man” cuts down or damages five or so mountaintop crosses.
http://www.krone.at/oesterreich/gipfelkreuz-hasser-schlaegt-erneut-in-tirol-zu-eben-erst-erneuert-story-537814
In France a muslim woman decapitates a statue of the devil. http://www.renneslechateau.info/una-mujer-arabe-decapita-al-diablo-rennes-le-chateau/
And in Italy a refugee destroys statues http://www.ilgiornale.it/news/cronache/raid-contro-i-cattolici-roma-ghanese-sfregia-quattro-chiese-1313197.html
This one has got video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PBUnsD8xO0
So how would this be solved in Russia?
passerby:
You can’t hide your intentions.
Even before the so called refugee crisis cemeteries had been vandalized.
In 2013 Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (FAZ) reported about South Eastern European crime gangs stealing metal from cemeteries and thereby causing great destroying (http://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/kriminalitaet/metalldiebstahl-auf-friedhoefen-altmetall-statt-totenruhe-12309057.html).
Early 2016 a 25 year old got convicted, because he stole several metal grave panel, which had been under protection of historical monuments. He had caused a damage of more than 300000 Euros (http://www.n-tv.de/panorama/25-Jaehriger-gesteht-Diebstahl-vor-Gericht-article17221746.html)
Do you really think someone with a different faith (other than Christian) cut down crosses on mountaintops? Why don’t you try to imply Buddhists, Sikhs, Jews, Taoists or Atheists as perpetrators? Following some agenda? I know of enough fellow Germans (of Christian heritage) who had engaged in vandalism (scratching their name or symbols into park benches and tables or even school tables with a pocket knife).
Whilst whining about the crosses on mountain tops, you conveniently forget to mention that alpinist Reinhold Messner told the press that there shouldn’t be any crosses on mountains at all. You forgot to mention crimes of “good” Christians as well. I’ll help you in this regard:
In 2016 more than 900 attacks directed at refugee accommodations occurred – that’s the number for Germany only (https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article160655659/Fast-1000-Anschlaege-auf-Fluechtlingsheime-im-Jahr-2016.html and http://www.taz.de/!5370050/).
Last year (2016) more than 3,500 attacks on refugees ocurred in Germany (http://www.dw.com/en/more-than-3500-attacks-on-refugees-in-germany-in-2016-report/a-37719365).
Two years ago (2015) German hospitality and tolerance made headlines in the British tabloid Dailiy Mail when it titled one of its articles: Refugees from war-torn Syria claim racism in Germany is so extreme they want to GO HOME as growing unrest and anti-Muslim feeling sees attacks on foreigners soar (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3179916/Refugees-war-torn-Syria-claim-racism-Germany-extreme-want-HOME-growing-unrest-anti-Muslim-feeling-sees-attacks-foreigners-soar.html).
With regard to your topic of religion I would like to add that Mulims belive in Jesus (he is seen as an important prophet). Buddhists don’t, Thaoists don’t and – probably unnecessary to mention – Atheists don’t as well. There are a few Jews who believe in Jesus, the majority don’t. The Israeli daily newspaper Haaretz reported in 2004 that Christians want Jews to stop spitting on them (http://www.haaretz.com/christians-in-jerusalem-want-jews-to-stop-spitting-on-them-1.137099).
Whilst typing those lines I thought about which party to elect that makes the lives of my tolerant fellow Germans better. If you’re trying to turn back time in your way (with the scapegoat replaced by another religion this time), I’ll screw you by voting for FDP (they’re extremely pro business, anti Union as well as anti workers rights, anti social benefits, for more privatization and finally for immigration of University educated foreigners).
P.S.: I would be grateful if the moderation would point out which aspect of this comment doesn’t comply with the board rules.
correction:
… thereby causing great destroying
should be:
thereby causing great destruction
I am hoping that Russia will exert some Christian spiritual leadership on China before the Pope is let in. I like the multi-confessional bit about the roots of Russian civilisation. But what about the recent Yarovaya Act which outlawed evangelical Christianity? How can this be justified? Also Russia had in a generation changed the Chechen Muslims such that they now have a reputation of being hardworking and good businessmen? This is indeed a revolutionary and hitherto unheard of success. How did Putin do this? Care to share a few pointers?
China got her atheism from the former USSR i.e. communist Russia. China is still stuck in it while Russia is enjoying a multi-confessional civilisation. Russia is responsible for China’s atheism which will likely cause immense problems for her people in the future. Could Russia give China a bit of help out of her eventually ruinous atheism? Maybe send missionaries to China to establish a Chinese Orthodox Church there.
The Communists in Zhongnanhai will have none of it.
There is one God for them: ideology of uniparty Socialism, which is not about economics, but about Rule.
They get away with it because it delivers stability.
Nothing the Chinese people fear more than social instability.
They have traded off democracy for stability.
And the Communist Party benefits.
But they are not doing much else with Communism. Never did.
It’s about pure Power to rule from a Centralized dogmatic system.
It works for China and now they have some benefits to show for it.
Yeah, good point the get away with it because it delivers stability and prosperity. But will it last? And if cannot last, disaster follows because the population is unrestrained by belief in a just almighty God who is also their Creator to whom they can at least pray. In an atheistic system, once the system fails, it’s every man for himself according to what he thinks is right…for himself that is. China had seen this happened many times in its long history – arguably during Mao’s cultural revolution and certainly during the warlords era in the 1920s. I think Russia can and should help in the spiritual aspects of China’s development.
Fantastic article. Excellent and compelling arguments in favor of smart policies that fit the known saying: Собаки лают, а караван идёт
This is a genuine question hoping for an answer in a similar spirit:
What is it your fundamentalist theocratic state would require of its citizens, while tolerating their different creeds, that makes it other and better than a liberal state under the rule of law?
I believe there is no definitive answer as to what kind of rule the state should use. Even if you include spiritualism in it let alone try to solve it from materlalistic point of view alone. Quest for that answer is what matters. And what should be the virtues of that society as in what way they would influence the society is the crux of the matter.
Start from absolute freedom fallacy. If i am free to do whatever i wish how will that influence the society if i am perhaps a psychopat? So freedom should be restricted. Instead of leading a discussion where the line should be drawn let us instead talk about oppression instead and how it is bad. That exactly is the situation where the west leads world into and has been for (insert here personal view,mine is measured in centuries) time.
If you ever felt Christianity is hypocritical you were not alone. I felt it also. Curious chain of events led me to Philokalia. Then after studying it for some time i understood that materialistic view of the world lacks at least one “dimension”. Even a glimpse of it humbled me. Then you understand the talk about absolutes. Otherwise it is just a mere definition. Then all those thoughts about hypocrisy melt away.Your approach shows clearly that you do not believe in such things. Whether you invested your belief in something else entirely or you just don’t believe in anything is not the point. Point is that it is pointless to discuss richness of colors with someone who choose to keep his eyes closed. Until that time comes that he chooses to open them.
Have you ever given thought about the power of belief? And why is it that many who renounce its power publicly actually want you to believe them and to believe in them. And all that without a shred of, all powerful (as is hailed) evidence? With usual disclaimers. To be announced later, on the verge of proving, give us some more time, around the corner, top secret,… Or worse, outright lies now. Some time ago we at least had some half truths and semantics but now they are even done with that.
What is important here is that Muslims and Orthodox can cooperate because we understand that another “dimension” exists and we agree on most of principles. On those we do not agree we are ordered to find a peaceful way to coexist. In gamers slang we are playing life on higher difficulty.
It is interesting to note what denominations used religion as a tool for conquest and forced conversion and sadly, instead of denouncing them they embrace them and make of them saints and heroes.
Lindsay, my spirit cannot stretch further than this. I hope that one day i could stretch more but this is my limit now. Hope this helps
Dragan
Thank you.
I’m not guilty of thinking there is such a thing as absolute freedom which any individual can claim a right to.
I am not so impertinent as to say that any Christian, or Muslim, or…, is hypocritical in their profession of sincere belief. (I do think they are as fallible as me.)
My question has to do with the claim that a just (and tolerant) society can be built only on religious faith, and in particular fundamentalist religious faith.
It is not obvious how a fundamentalist society which nonetheless truly tolerates dissent can differ in any practical discernible way from a liberal tolerant society where those of each faith are free to live in their faith and to think others in error.
What would be different in the proposed theocracy which tolerates unbelievers? Are the unbelievers to be second-class citizens? Is the law to be constrained to be consistent with some authority’s interpretation of the scripture of some one particular faith? How do fundamentalists “tolerate” the infidel without feeling duty-bound to try to save them from what they “know” to be the consequences of infidelity?
There are some who have “better things to do” than explain (although there is time enough for screeds on “pussyfication”(!)). For your reply I am genuinely grateful. It was thoughtful and considerate. I do not think it quite answers the question, but 1. I’m fallible and may simply be missing the point and 2. as the blogger’s retort and your thoughtful response both indicate – I’ve not made myself at all clear.
Thank you again.
Lindsay,belief is a curious thing. It alters your perceptions. It really does. Belief does not need evidence! They are on the opposite sides of the spectrum.
If two people of opposing beliefs meet (any belief not just religious) and they cannot agree in bare minimum (for any reason) then there can be no discussion. They both make clear that they will not change their views for anything (which is not a bad thing by itself) but they then go a step further and try to influence but at the same time refuse to be influenced, then there is nothing to talk there. One is trying to convert the other who already stated that he will not do that. It leads nowhere. Most of us has been there and it is not pleasant. If we catch even a whiff of it we walk away. There is a distinction here if a person doing it is aware of it or not. But patience is not limitless although it is a virtue.
Now, beliefs should be analyzed. To see where they lead to. The discussion need to be honest as possible and with fewest emotion possible. Where emotions surface, reason take a dive. Reason, no matter what enemies of religion state is highly used in religion.
Religious view vs liberal at its basest is tradition vs something new. Tradition does not hide from analysis. It has its bad things but it has good also but it can be analyzed, there is material. Changes in tradition are not unheard of and at this point tradition at least need to be recalled correctly. Changes of tradition are rarely heard off. Total change is a new paradigm. Problem with that is that it cannot be analyzed. There is no material to be analyzed, it has never been tried before. Or worse, it has been tried and it brought disastrous results but, believe me, this time it wont. It brings us back to religion again witch is sole proprietor of faith. It boils down to theft. Extolling the virtue of evidence and denigrating faith while begging for your belief and evidence are nowhere to be seen. Deception, nothing more. A brazen one at that.
How could the religious society work better then a liberal one? A consensus based on virtues of the faith. Take Ten Commandments for example. It is common sense for majority of this planet. You could trace almost any failing of humanity to not following them. Liberalism, just as any ism that negate God or try to subvert the religion are not new societal systems, ideologies or whatnot but direct opposition to religion and are fighting for you faith all the while negating the relevance of it. Deception again. Faith does alter your perception, after all.
I hope we will continue this talk, although i probably did not answer your question but for that you need to be more precise and not so vague.
Dragan
“If two people (or communities, I would add) of opposing beliefs…” (Re-read your whole paragraph.)
And
“How could the religious society work better then a liberal one? A consensus based on virtues of the faith.”
This is precisely the question. A society based on the the virtues of the faith – indeed, a society based on a fundamentalist version of the faith – yet it accommodates communities within it of opposing faiths, of mutually inconsistent beliefs? “Most of us have been there and it is not pleasant.”
It is not difficult to envisage the requisite tolerance in a liberal society (“liberal” sufficiently vague and unspecific) – separation of church and state, rule of law and equality before the law etc. etc.
It is not clear how it would work in a fundamentalist theocracy. (I’m not claiming to know that it is impossible.)
In other words, it is not obvious that the conclusion of the article can be true. How is a fundamentalist theocracy a better foundation for toleration than a liberal democracy (or anarchist republic or any number of other possibilities, some more practical than others). The author declines to explain.
By the way, I am always startled when someone says something like, “Belief does not need evidence!”. I know that there is a long tradition of fideism in many religions (and, ironically, many philosophers have argued for it). I still cannot understand why anyone would do what they wouldn’t dream of in any other circumstances, and trust to blind faith to deliver the truth in what is potentially the most important decision of their life – I have no rational grounds for belief, but I’ll believe it anyway (because…? because what?)
Also, a tradition is something that changes over time (despite the claims of any one generation or sect to maintain the pure original form). And liberalism is not in any form I have seen argued for “total change” or “a new paradigm”.
We talk and come closer to understanding what the other intends to say. A pity some others are too impatient or thin-skinned to try – it seems to me that such discussion could only make the original article the more interesting and valuable..
Lindsay, religious society based on virtues of faith is the thing i am arguing for, not the theocratic state although i would not exclude it, i am not advocating that. You are opposing exactly that.
Consensus is something the majority agrees to. Liberalism is something that the minority advocates.
Mutually inconsistent beliefs? Maybe. But remember as long we agree that we disagree and try not to influence each other but engage in a dialogue to better understand each other… Fundamentalist believer is now used as a derogatory term. But it was not always so. You either believe or you do not. That is the meaning of fundamentalism. Now that meaning is distorted.
Do you expect that the majority of the people on the planet that have a tradition (highly influenced by religion) that tells them not to kill,steal,rape,traditional marriage… will accept that? To change the moral code of the entire nations is a social engineering. Let us call things by their proper name. That is not to say let us keep aberrant behaviours such as stoning, murdering, beheadings and such. But such extremism and intolerance was never in the religion to begin with. Problem we are dealing here with is that there are groups that try to hide behind religion to do exactly that and telling the world that God commanded them to do so. Take Vaticans crusades and Ottomans jihads for example, i personally see them as same. Regarding Ottomans, someone here mentioned and some others but i will not go there for my knowledge there is limited.
God commanded us to be kind to each other, respectful,mindful, calm, hard working, loving faithful, loyal… and to multiply. I see no problem with that. You?
You know of the two Chechen wars? You know that Muslims,Orthodox and others there now live in peace? You know that the Muslims in Bosnia staffed SS division Handzar during WWII and slaughtered Orthodox Serbs? Yet, my fathers best man was a Muslim,just a quarter of the century later in that same Bosnia. During the 90’s it happened again and yet we are living in peace now. Tenuous yes but that is due to wahabi influence. Those that hide behind religion.
You see, it is possible to live in peace and relative harmony and we do not need anything new to do that. History saw those cycles numerous times. Their roots are at an individual level (fallible man and women). Those cycles were overturned and it will be again.
Just to reach a better understanding, you said:
“In other words, it is not obvious that the conclusion of the article can be true. How is a fundamentalist theocracy a better foundation for toleration than a liberal democracy (or anarchist republic or any number of other possibilities, some more practical than others). The author declines to explain.”
Now, tell me where does Saker advocates theocratic state? What in your words is the conclusion of the article? And final, why is it obvious that it cannot be true.
To be honest, his every word is golden in my opinion.
Dragan
You are absolutely right about one thing: there is no mention of theocracy. I allowed myself tabloid caricature to make a point in few words – and ended up, I think, with straightforward misrepresentation. I used “theocracy” as shorthand in opposition to “liberal” (“sufficiently vague and unspecific”). What the article actually says (with, it should be noted, a comparable caricature of “secularism”) is:
“Modern secularist ideologies have given mankind nothing except violence, oppression, wars and even genocides. It is high time to kick them into the trash heaps of history where they belong and return to a truly tolerant, sustainable and humane civilizational model centered around spiritual, not materialistic, values.”
The spiritual values referred to, as is clear from several other articles on this site, are those of fundamentalist Orthodoxy. I do not use “fundamentalist” as a derogatory term. It is the term the Saker uses. Society is to be centred on the values of fundamentalist Orthodoxy. This is not a theocracy. But it is government founded on fundamentalist Orthodoxy. This may be a good thing or it may not. It may be practical or it may not. It may indeed be a “return” as the article says or it may be a myth or ideal. My question remains, how can a society founded on fundamentalist Orthodox principles deliver toleration of those who are not Orthodox and those who reject Orthodoxy? How is such a society better equipped to deliver toleration than a liberal alternative (equally hypothetical)? I think we should stipulate that “toleration” does not mean something like dhimmi status but full equality of citizenship.
It is painfully obvious that “liberal democracy”, like the “Christianity” (Catholic or Protestant) it succeeded as the ideology of the West, has provided cover for slaughter and pillage. It does not follow that liberal democracy is not a viable least-worst to aim for, or that its failure necessarily leaves Orthodox fundamentalism as the only alternative. This has to be argued for, and has not been, at least so far. The Saker’s words may indeed be golden (I read them for a reason). Perhaps we just need more of them addressed to precisely what the rhetoric means.
(As a footnote: you notice that you say (and I am caricaturing again) “such and such is religious” and “such another is false religion” and “God commanded this” and “the majority think that”. Who is to decide what is truly religious and what is falsely done in the name of religion? Who is to decide what it is that God has commanded? And how are we to determine what the majority think on every question of our social arrangements, and how (if at all) are we to determine how much protection the minority get from the majority’s preferences? It is not obvious, for example, that setting someone or some institution up as God’s authority (and therefore not to be questioned) on these matters and having society live according to the precepts of this authority is a good idea. It is not obvious how it could be implemented. Savonarola and the Ayatollah soon had to make concessions to the mundane just as did the Jacobins (and indeed the church in Jerusalem and the Pauline church and…). What is a sufficiently fundamentalist alternative? How is the society to be founded on Orthodox principles if there is no authority to say what those principles are? What happens when there is disagreement? These are questions, not attempted put-downs.)
Lindsay, Secularism and liberalism were at work a lot of time and they made a caricature of themselves sufficiently enough. You should confessed that tabloid caricature attempt and reasons behind them when Saker called you out. You may have continued your dialogue with him.
I accept your questions as such not as put-downs. What you fail to see at this site is an attempt at a dialogue. Noble quest. Saker gives his views from Orthodox perspective, others from theirs and it is allowed. What we are discovering is that we agree on most points. We are forging consensus based on shared values of our beliefs. I am amazed at the amount of similarities we share. I am also amazed with the volume of lies and obfuscations we were bombarded with, in my opinion just do prevent that kind of dialogue.
This process has just began or it is just continued, which is more likely. Why it would be better? For one it has support of more people then any other. So, it is stronger in the long run. And it showed its strengths regarding the issues we are discussing.
How it would be organized? Stick around and look for yourself. Better yet, participate. But understand that this process is not yet at an organizational level. It is at a consensus forging level. If your questions are deemed inappropriate do not get offended. Foundation plans are not yet agreed upon and discussion regarding arches is premature and deemed distracting at this point.
Your questions regarding the authorities and Gods Commandments are on spot. For us who believe it is obvious though. Forced conversions, offensive wars, imposition of culture and tradition are prohibited by religion. They were used by some though. That is the glass thru which you discern who should have the moral authority. You mention unquestioned religious authority. You are right, just look at those in history and their results. Spiritual guidance and leading by example is the way to go. Live what you preach otherwise you are a hypocrite and unworthy. Protection of minorities? Tough one. If the minorities in question are artificially created and used to disrupt society? Or genuine ones who had their right to talk for themselves was usurped by those same who want to disrupt society? Or others?
That question is used a cuckoo’s egg for so many times in the past that we must look at it closely. Let us look at it from a perspective of a religious person. Sodomy is a sin. You may sin, it is your choice. Freedom of choice can not be overstated. But you should not be allowed to propagate your ideas. It goes against our belief. So we have a conflict of beliefs sooner or later. Here i must be honest. It is against our belief but what kind of response is required, where the line should be drawn? We know story of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Old Testament, but New Testament? Is it told but i am not acquainted with? Possibly? We are ordered to multiply but how imperative is the freedom of choice there? Should we be reacquainted with them? Certainly! Should we share them with others? Off course! Problem that arise here is the clash of materialistic and spiritual views. What one accept as a fact is dismissed by other and vice versa. How should we settle that? That is a real issue also and often dismissed at the start. I as a believer would like to see that issue settled. Especially in the light of theft of a concept of faith, distorting it and using it against itself. Which is a real issue but dismissed out of hand by those that claim materialistic views but are spiritual and according to my understanding servants of the Devil. Many who not pay attention to details or who believe that world is just material fall prey to them. Believers are not immune but at least understand and accept that evil exist in this world. Here i will allow myself a quote. “The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled is to convince the world that he does not exist.”
How it should be resolved peacefully? Honestly? I do not know. But if we opt for separation, sodomites die of within a generation. Would they accept it? Even then what? If not, why should we support them among us? Equal rights? They are not if we have to support them as a minority with special rights, after all they do not contribute to the society as others-they cannot have children. On the other hand there are some that can but choose not to. What with them? Hypocritical if we do not acknowledge their existence,birthing and upbringing among us also. How to resolve the issue? My take is that we should silence the loudmouths first, on both sides, so that we could talk. Relearn what we have forgotten or learned wrongly. Not about sodomy but other things. Prayer for some, reason up emotions down for all. Right now we are all denied that atmosphere by the known culprits and are trying to raise awareness about that at the same time.
We should keep our beliefs, but we are called to solve problems that exist among us. Although, some of them are artificially caused, some are not. You see a future need of compromise from believers. I see a distillation of faith, separating wheat from chaff(much needed) or, more likely, getting to know your religion at a deeper level that certainly exist but you were not aware of. Religion is a guide, not a set of rules. Not that there are no rules. Believers might not be able to compromise on certain things. We accept that some things are not meant for us to know but to follow. We might catch a glimpse here or there that will fortify our belief but for that you need faith not just intellect.
“In the words of Saint Seraphim of Sarov, “acquire a peaceful spirit, and around you thousands will be saved”. I think that this is a future worthy of fighting for.”
Thank you for this dialogue, the opportunity to test myself and forgive my behaviour, it was not worthy. I wrestled with many temptations during this conversation i admit. Failed at many times, maybe all. But you helped me to discover where to fortify myself. Faith is a path after all and i am weak.
This is not to say that we should end this conversation. We found more questions than answers. What shall we do with them?
Dragan
I am going to read what you have said again, because it is (for me) a very useful response to my questions.
I will take pity on the moderators and not in turn respond at length. I hope that we can pick up this conversation again later.
I do want to say something in my defence.
You say that the project is still at the stage of consensus-building. You say that the Saker “called me out” for my caricatures.
There was no caricature in what I said to the Saker. I did not, I think, use the shorthand I used with you (although I did talk at a superficial level, where practicalities of social organisation are involved, and di not attempt to touch on anything at any deep spiritual level, which would have been presumptuous of me).
What I attempted – to clarify what the practicalities would be – has a bearing on what you call the consensus-building. The Saker’s reply to me (I refer in particular to his points 1 – 3) was motherhood and apple pie for believers and mumbo-jumbo for the unsympathetic unbeliever (I am not myself so entirely unsympathetic). For it to be anything more, the Saker has to be willing to thrash out the meaning of what he is saying, not just with those who enjoy the warm feeling of being among the chosen few who know, but also with those on the outside who are sceptical or uncomprehending. Why? Because the Saker believes that what he has to say would benefit us all. As a man of goodwill, he has therefore surely taken on the task of persuading us.
I will now go back to re-read our exchange. Thank you.
@Muslims and Orthodox can cooperate because we understand that another “dimension” exists and we agree on most of principles
We may delude ourselves that we agree on the principles, but the Devil is in the details. In the details of how to apply the principles. In fact we do not agree on the principles either. This continues to be a dangerous delusion.
Wiz Oz,
Islam and Orthodox Christianity will only get closer. It’s a ‘natural’ flow of things. We have a lot in common with the Orthodox. Why? Because the Orthodox and Muslims are spiritually and culturally similar. We can come to a mutual understanding on the issue of the Trinity. There is a lot of history between both peoples that intertwine and show promise for the future for said peoples.
Aside from ‘Jesus is the literal ‘Son Of God”, we both show very high esteem for Mary, blessed mother of Jesus. In fact, Jesus is(and I say ‘Is’ because we Muslims don’t believe Jesus to have died, but resides in Heaven at the right side of God, waiting for the commandment to return to earth and deliver humanity from the Devil and his legion.). But Muslims also believe that blessed Mother Mariam, to be one of four women who are blessed to enter Paradise first, no judgement or questions asked. The others being Asia, wife of the Pharoah, and the two others are Khadijah, and Aisha, wives of Prophet and Messenger, Muhammed. Btw, Muslims believe Jesus to be both a Prophet and Messenger. We also believe God sent to humanity 124,000+ Prophets, but only 5 Prophets and Messengers(taken together of course) . They are , Noah, Abraham ,Moses, Jesus and Muhammed. These beliefs can accommodate dialogue and mutual respect and understanding between the Orthodox and the Islamic Ummah(Body). In fact, it has always been so. Islam (see the Islamic Golden Horde) controlled most of the Russian Federation at one point in history, yet, there is no documented proof of forced conversion(as we Muslims believe there is no compulsion in religion). No documented proof of ethnic genocides or massaces(see the mass murder/annihilation of all living men, women, children and even animals when the Crusaders took Jerusalem in 1099 A.D.)
The Bolshevik Khazarian Jews who perpetrated the bloody revolution of 1917 went after the Orthodox Church in Russia with an evil vengeance, all but bringing it to a comatose state. The said Jews instantly went on to try and destroy Russia’s culture, religions, and state. Aside from the faux Muslim Ottomans, there has been a long history of brotherhood between Islam and Orthodox Slav Russia. Since the days of Peter the Great(who had a personal guard detachment of Muslims) and Catherine the Great, who had deep respect for Islam and Muslims, her personal guard aswell as a sizable amount of elite troops were Muslim.
The troops brought in to literally save Moscow in 1940(when Germans were at the gates), were brought in from eastern provinces of Russia and the Islamic countries to her south, were again, majority Muslims. The Battle of Stalingrad, a large force of Chechen, Cossack and other Muslims were sent in and managed to turn the tide. Muslims and Orthodox fighting and dying together, as one peoples, against evil. And it will be the same in the foreseeable future. It is happening now, in the Donbass, where Mr. Khadyrov’s elite troops volunteered to go and ‘fix’ the situation. And they did. The Donbass militias were very inexperienced and were taking a beating, until the Chechens showed up and organized them. The rout of the Ukrainian forces at Donetsk Airport and the shredding of Ukrainian Armored division in Debaltsevo was the work of a united Orthodox and Muslim effort. Now the Ukrainians are in no mood for more. Even with huge logistical support from Nato/U.S/Israel. Muslims and Orthodox fighting and dying together for a noble cause. Has been this way for centuries. The two wars in Chechnya were an anomaly, and Mr. Khadyrov acknowledged that it was a conspiracy hatched be the Anglo-Zionist entities.
People of the west refer to themselves and there world as a Judeo-Christian society. That in itself is an oxymoron, due to the basic fact that Jews don’t believe Jesus was anything but a cursed man, a sorcerer. And blessed mother Mariam was a harlot who slept around with Roman soldiers. Jews can barely hold their contempt for Jesus and sometimes go out of their way to disrespect Jesus, Mariam. We have all seen the creature called Mrs. Silverstein say she ‘would kill Jesus again, if she could’ on national T.V. And she is hailed as a comedian. And we all know of the ignoramus Larry David urinate on a portrait of Jesus on a show in the U.S. called ‘Saturday Night Live’. Again ,he is also hailed as a cutting edge comedian. Yet not one peep from the cowardly western masses. You will Never hear of a Muslim disrespecting Jesus or Mary, because then a Muslim will have rejected his religion.
So, who stands to benefit from one another, Muslims-Orthodox, or Muslims- Judeo/Christians?
So get used to it, the bond between Islam and Orthodox Christians will only solidify and get stronger.
The West, in their shortsightedness, are themselves pushing the Islamic world into the arms or their brothers, the Eastern Orthodox.
Especially when ‘Zionism’ , and the support it gets from western Christians gets even more and more blatant.
Bored Muslim,
I am afraid that you become a boring Muslim. Muslims delude themselves that their ‘show of esteem’ for Mary and the repetiton ad nauseam that we should be grateful that they do us the favor to recognize Jesus as a prophet, is suficient for a ‘geting closer’ to the Orthodox. But it is precisely the question of the litterality of ‘Jesus the Son of God’ and his real death and resurrection that divides us essentially. There can’t be unity but in Truth. And the Truth is that Jesus is the Son of God litterally.
Good article.
My compliment, nothing to add :-).
The Saker wrote that the table that compares “Muslims” in the EU and “Kadyrov Chechens” in Russia doesn’t contain “scientific findings, they are not backed by careful opinion polling and they do compare apples and oranges.” If he’d explained what the table is based on then his argument would’ve been more compelling.
He wrote, “Russia is not a majority Muslim country that she is the ideal place to re-create a non-denominational form of Islam”. I’m no expert but according to the only Chinese Muslim who I once talked to, Islam in China is already non-denominational, and Chinese Muslims don’t consider themselves Shiites or Sunnis. Again, this may be the opinion of just one Muslim.
The West in on a collision course with the Islamic world, but it is on collision courses with Russia and with China too. Isn’t the first collision course much less serious in comparison with the latter ones?
What does it mean that the West is on a collision course with the Islamic world? For example, is the West going to attack the Islamic world, which includes countries like Indonesia and Saudi Arabia? How would the Islamic world respond to the collision?
Simon Chow wrote in a comment, “China got her atheism from the former USSR i.e. communist Russia. China is still stuck in it”. IMHO atheism in China means something very different from what it means in the Christian world. Confucius was rather atheist, if you ask me. China has been undergoing tremendous changes. I think it is too early to say that it is stuck with atheism, or anything else for that matter.
@TNY. Confucius cannot be said to had been an atheist. When asked about the afterlife, he just replied that there is so much to learn in this life that he do not have enough time to ponder about the afterlife. That’s why the spiritual aspects of Chinese civilisation is not developed.
What a beautiful article, thank you so much Saker.
I want to add a few things, also to some commentators here.
I beg to differ slightly that the war in Syria is as good as over. Don’t underestimate the poisonous powers of the toxic marriage of the US and the KSA.
They apparantly have some plans with the future of Raqqa, and the future of the Kurds remains to be seen. Turkey will never allow a Kurdish statelet in Syria. Then they will attack.
That Russia and Chechnya managed to get in good neighbourship again, is indeed a huge archievement. That 15% of the population is muslim, but live peacefully among other religions, is an example.
But you cannot compare that to the situation in Europe. Russians with its muslim population have a tradition of ages living together, in Europe this is just for decades, and they are immigrants.
While Chechens excel in e.g. the military (I’ve seen a documentary about a soort of Olympic Games between special forces, it was won by a Chechen group from the Spetznaz), large parts of immigrant groups are unemployed.
E.g. under Moroccan youth in my country, 65% of them doesn’t finish school. Unemployment among subsaharan immigrants is 80-90%, even after 10 years staying here.
They live often close together in certain parts of the city, and still feel connected with their homeland, while enjoying the social welfare. My guess is, that a Russian muslim consideres himself a Russian.
The wahhabi style is broadly teached in mosques here, with many imams paid by Saudi Arabia. You are absolutely right that we should make a difference between Takfiri and Wahhabism and the traditional Islam. Add to that, that by hundreds of raids on mosques in both France and Germany massive amounts of weapons have been found, and then you may understand that I am worried.
Please understand as well, that many rapes and attacks are kept out of the press. I couldn’t find the link anymore, but on the average 10 times a day a German is attacked by an immigrant with a knife. I don’t believe that bomb attacks are false flags.
I don’t think the Russian approach will work here, especially not within the framework of the bureaucratic monster of the EU with waning influence of states and pussy leaders (I’ll make an exception for Viktor Orban and Vaclav Klaus).
We’re constantly flushed with humbug like ‘diversity’ and ‘tolerance’ and ‘connection’. Words without meaning and effect. After the bombing on a concert in Manchester, Katy Perry started crying on a stage and said that ‘we should hug each other more to drive away terrorism’. This woman cannot be saved anymore.
And, for Americans I want to say too, that unlike in the USA bearing of arms under civilians is largely prohibited.
I want to put a short comment too on commentator ‘bored muslim’.
First, your intelligent comment was absolutely not boring to me ;-)
You stated, that the US Forces have nothing gained in Afghanistan after 17 years. Indeed, that is quite some time for the best military in the world for not archieving military goals.
But, they are there mainly for another reason. They guard and control the heroin production, thereby gaining billions of illegal money that can be used for all kinds of operations outside congressional overview. Afghanistan produces 80% of the heroin of the whole world.
Adding to the comment about NATO being in Afghanistan. It is not just for heroin but to have bases to contain Chinese and Russian strategic influences in Central Asia and MOST IMPORTANTLY to foster the destabilization of one of Imposter Israel’s obstacles: a nuclear armed Muslim country! They have been quite successful and they have many Mir Jafirs and Mir Saddiqs to pick from.
About ‘containing’ and ‘influence’ you might have a point. But, in fact the Taliban has quite a say in this tribal country that has never been conquered by a foreign nation. Would you consider this successfull after 17 years of presence of American forces? In fact, the central government has only power in Kabul, and only at daylight. And even then, these ‘accidents’ happen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7NpJXOTiMY . Just a handshake of ISIS (well, that’s what they claim).
I don’t see your point about ‘destabilisation’ in order to prevent the forming of a nuclear armed muslim nation. I have no fear that Afghanistan will get nuclear arms in the near future.
If that is the issue, on which you might be right, the American troops are in the wrong nation, but also too late.
The only muslim nation that I know with the possession of nuclear arms is Pakistan (I rule out Iran, I don’t really believe that they have nuclear bombs).
Rob:
Please understand as well, that many rapes and attacks are kept out of the press. I couldn’t find the link anymore, but on the average 10 times a day a German is attacked by an immigrant with a knife. I don’t believe that bomb attacks are false flags.
The alleged suppression of news is not an entirely novel topic. You can read a lot of that stuff in the media of so called “patriots”. Maybe that link you’re writing about had been on the web site called political incorrect (favored and supported by zionist Mr. Broder). At least in the case of the attack at the Christmas Market in Berlin the German intelligence service (Verfassungsschutz) seems to have been involved. A so called undercover agent (V-Mann) allegedly took the alleged perpetrator to Berlin (http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/anis-amri-v-mann-fuhr-terroristen-mindestens-einmal-nach-berlin-a-1129993.html). Other news sources reported that the German secret service (BND) had been warned by Moroccan intelligence services (https://www.morgenpost.de/berlin/article209035813/News-Blog-Lkw-faehrt-in-Weihnachtsmarkt-Neun-Tote.html).
With regard to the suppression of news, someone should point out all the cases of crimes of “patriots”, are mainly dismissed as minor crimes (painting a Swastika onto a wall, greeting with the Hitler salute, …). Those crime statistics are blurred by purpose, otherwise it would be obvious that there’s a large percentage of genuine racists living in Germany. How many people outside of Germany actually know about the NSU (Nationalsozialistischer Untergrund), their crimes (exploding a improvised bomb in Cologne, killing 10 Muslims and one Greek with a Czech made gun, killing a female police officer and severely wounding her colleague, committing several bank robberies, …). The case of the NSU is far from solved. There are still many inexplicable mysteries surrounding this case. Authorities are very hard trying to hide the real truth. For more than four years the court hearings in the case of the NSA is dragging on. It’s hidden in plain sight, but hardly noticeable. Many people already have forgotten about it. On rare occasions some magazine reports about the inconsistencies with several of the killings and those allegedly involved. In one case of the murders the possible participation of an undercover agent (V-Mann) is tried to obfuscate as hard as possible. Witness testimonies of employees of the intelligence service (Verfassungsschutz) are contradicting. Even the investigation of the suicide of two of the three members of the NSU group had been severely botched. Files, containing information about the NSU group had been shredded hastily. The whole case raises more question than it attempts to answer.
As to the crime statistics of people with with a migration background, they’re severely flawed as well. The statistics are excessively blown up by adding administrative offense (for example by leaving the area where they’re legally obligated to stay within). Another problem with those statistics is that they don’t distinguish between people who hold German citizenship and those who’re refugees or asylum seekers.
As long as there are no honest statistics it’s difficult to get a clear picture.
In my point of view one aspect seems to be for sure: The powers that be are trying their best at dividing the people. If the losers of the system (those with migration background and those without) would realize that they’ve been screwed by those higher up, they might start to join forces and revolt.
One of the most dangerous banks in Germany (maybe even the world) is Deutsche Bank. Look at the value of its shares. It’s declining. I’m pretty sure that bank will pull down Germany and Europe and the idiots in Berlin will try everything to rescue the large shareholders instead of paying the mandatory refunds (maximum 100000 Euros) to savers. For those higher-up the food chain it would be delightful to see the deplorable (native and migrant) to engage in infight, rather than to be on the run from those that got screwed.
It’s not only in Germany that critisism about muslim criminality is suppressed.
But sometimes someone is crying out loud. See for yourself this article about a Swedish police chief that is simply saying ‘Please help us, we cannot handle it anymore’: http://www.pi-news.net/schwedischer-polizeichef-helfen-sie-uns-helfen-sie-uns/
In Sweden – a thinly populated country- every day 13 women are raped by immigrants. Just the officially reported ones, the actual rate might be much higher. They are simply sent home by the police after reporting. After South Africa Sweden has the highest rape rate in the world. A Swedish women has a chance of 25% to get raped by an immigrant.
Arab and African gangs are battling each other, and Swedish women colour their hair black and only leave their houses in groups. In Norwegian cities it’s not much better.
And Jean-Claude Juncker just opened another bottle of fine wine, and declared to his table audience that Europe definitely needs ‘more EU’.
Rob:
I’ll quote from my first response to your post: Maybe that link you’re writing about had been on the web site called political incorrect (favored and supported by zionist Mr. Broder).
Now you’re posting a link for me to read that refers to the web site political incorrect (pi news). Are you kidding me?
No, I’m not kidding you.
But in the meantime (because I found as a part of a larger article some time ago in another language), I have tracked it back: https://de.gatestoneinstitute.org/10503/messerverbrechen-deutschland
Let me correct myself: not just germans are the victims. But there is an explosion in attacks with knives, so much is clear.
Rob:
No, I’m not kidding you
At first you quote pi news, despite my prior information that they’re untrustworthy. Now you’re posting a link to some Gatestone Institute. Public information about that institute says it all. Especially the surname of the founder hints at her motives. Additional information shows that her family belongs to the supporters of two settlements in the West bank (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nina_Rosenwald). That shady organization you’re referring to is a right-wing think tank.
At this point I would like to add some information regarding pi news. When that Norwegian terrorist Breivik went on his shooting spree, the members of the blog were excited, because they thought that some Muslim was shooting up the summer camp of the Norwegian Social Democrats (http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/a-788472.html). A Muslim terrorist and a few less Social Democrats would’ve been a win-win situation for those pi news guys, but their excitement should fade soon, when they learned that it had been one of their sympathizers running amok. That web site gets donations from the Jewish Defense League (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politically_Incorrect).
Next time you should try to use reliable sources, instead of spreading Zionist propaganda.
Based on bloodline I could easily get an Aryan certificate – even the Greater Aryan certificate. Let’s hope that history will never repeat itself, not even similarly repeating (with a different religion as scapegoat) itself. Politically I’m not noticeable, but if push came to shove and I would be forced to make a decision I might consider to infiltrate those circles who’re trying to split the German society. And by the way: I’m not remotely in favor of LBGT – I accept their choice, but don’t want to be bothered by them. I’m pretty sure that many of the participants and supporters of pi news don’t meet the requirements for being a German.
Thanks. An interesting analysis with which I substantially agree. The Empire is starting to ‘publicly ‘ crumble in the eyes of the great unwashed Western ‘deplorables’, etc. I suspect that the rest of the World, even Australia, is having reservations at a public level.
Thank you for sharing such a thoughtful and informed perspective. I wanted two send the article to Russia-phobic friend of mine, but I think she will point out that Chechnya was spelled with an i and therefore the author doesn’t know what he’s talking about. I think you’re very well informed. What’s up with that i? 😉
The Cretaceous-Crusader-Zionism did not just launch a crusade against Islam, but also against Orthodoxy.
Beautiful and accurate observations. Thanks Much.
Underlying the raging controversies about “Islam” is the “leaven of the Pharisees”, that Christ overcame and warned us about.
Today, this leaven has been planted and nurtured in Islam, Christianity & other isms.
This leaven has been refined over the last 2000 years to become the Talmud. The Talmudists took over the Roman Church, took over Islam and have taken over America to use as a weapon against the whole World…..Fire from heaven if you don’t submit.
The US has officially adopted this mentality and is applying it to millions of people…. it’s called the Noahide code, and is the opposite of Christ’s Perfect Gospel of Peace & Life. True Muslims follow the same God as True Christians.