I often get very interesting emails from my readers and friends. This morning, I got this from ‘G’ (emphasis in red added):
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id
I just cannot believe how outrageous statements like these go unquestioned. Instead of being questioned regarding her sanity–she is after all committing America’s nuclear forces to the defense of a country with which we have no treaty obligations to and is of absolutely no strategic importance in the defense of the US–she is allowed to go and make even more ridiculous assertions about how Iran acquiring nukes will destabilize the middle east as other countries might then want nukes and things will get crazy. Well, what about Israel’s nukes? They are what? A “stabilizing” influence? Are the others not supposed to want nukes? Why wouldn’t they want a deterrence against Israel’s nukes?
Why doesn’t anyone question her assertions and the premise that Israel is somehow important to the US?
Commentary: This is baffling indeed. ‘Mind-boggling’ is an even better description. See, when a country is willing to use nuclear weapons against another country this *by definition* means that is is willing to take the risk, however small, of being itself destroyed by a retaliatory nuclear strike. Now, it is rather clear that Iran does not have nukes at all, that it has no intention of ever getting them, that if it had them it would not use them against Israel (or any other country) since they would clearly be only useful as a deterrent, and that if the USA was to nuke Iran the latter would not have the delivery systems to retaliate against the US. Would that mean that the USA would be safe?
No.
Again *by definition* using nuclear weapons against a country with nukes necessarily implies that the targeted country will do anything to defend itself or to retaliate. This could include the Iranians using a re-flagged cargo ship or a civilian airliner to bring a nuke inside the USA. They could even have a nuclear device in their UN mission in New York. However unlikely any of that would be, this is a risk which a President ordering the nuking of Iran would have to consider before giving the go ahead. And that clearly shows one thing: Hillary is willing to risk literally *anything* for Israel. She even wants *NATO* to join in the nuclear war. Why would that be?
The reason is painfully simple: this is what the Israel Lobby demands before allowing somebody to become President and that, in turns, proves that the Israel Lobby will only allow a traitor to the USA (somebody who puts the interests of Israel above the interests of his/her own country) to get into the White House.
The USA has allowed itself to become hijacked by a foreign power which cares very little about American national interests; all it wants is the use the USA for its own national interests (however mistakenly identified). The crazies in power in Israel will defend their interests to the last drop of American blood and the entire political elite in Washington has signed off on this.
Said it so clear, vin. perfect!!
I am learning day by day, the nature of the US political landscape, and It seems to be this: Most of the US voters have primary allegiance to a sports club like political party image, where the only tie to political ideas are hollow slogans, either-we are for: “freedom” “national greatness” or “for the little guy” or “civil rights”. The boundary of political discourse is rigidly set by the clique that runs both parties and runs the press. Axioms are that “National greatness” is the yardstick that we measure the success of a country. “Isolationism is a recipe for war- Should have stopped Hitler at Munich you know. see see !!!”. This sea of ink has shaped the national conscience for 50 years now, and the Neocons that wish to hijack the entire country need to only recast their message as a duty which the citizens in the US must not shirk, or face some kind of historical dishonor of our sacred heritage that has been ginned up and internalized.
The media can control the spectrum of political exposure, and the left is all for national greatness too. Leftie, Rightie, both want to work the levers of national power of the worlds only “superpower” to their private and public ends. The power is in the shadows, the cloakroom, the world of funding, revenge, returned favors, blackmail, making common cause people who can make or break people- thats what we are- most of it under the radar of public scrutiny in any depth.
So here we sit. 4000+ dead, 20,000+ seriously wounded, many many more than that mentally damaged, many more stop-lossed into broken marriages and damaged lives, Oil prices skyrocketing way over 100$/bl, US and Israel the pariahs of the world, 12 billion a month causing debt that will crush the country heading for a recession.- and obama, the best bet for the war issue, a sure ticket to socialism, from which we will probably never recover. Sure I’m bitter!
Yet
1) No political option (somebody we can vote for) can offer disengagement from the entire Middle East, including the root position ending our knee jerk support for Israel.
2) No national media, print or electronic, of any real size, is allowing a real serious public discussion of this option. This is because of stong-arm tactics in the Jewish controlled press and media.
3)Our Religious institutions are for the most part, intimidated into not considering a recast of our Middle East foreign policy because they are cowards, and don’t want to be called anti Semites or truly believe that we are commanded by God to support Israel to cause Bible prophesy (or their take on it) to be fulfilled.
Here we stand, like some pathetic Gulliver , held in harness by this tiny powerful minority, and like a Jackass in a Hailstorm, we have to stand there and take it.
I am getting angry over absurd bondage in which we find ourselves. Some Jews get the blame where maybe they don’t deserve it, but then again, I consider the Jews I know. What would they do, to keep Israel a Jewish state, and not just another secular democracy? The answer, I think, is that they would have no qualms about lying the US into the war Theater,placing the US in a position to menace Iran and Syria, Israel’s chief regional foe.
Would they say- no we must not prevent a fair discussion of the alternatives in the US press, because that would be- say- wrong? Doubt it.
Their identity as Jews, their Religion, their tribe, their culture,their family, their friends and their true national fealty would hold few things off limits in the pursuit of “securing the Realm” for Israel. They can’t say this. We can’t accuse them in public of this. Most average American Voter types see all of this Middle East involvement as Revenge for 911, in some nebulous manner. They are not told of the huge post 911 support for the US, in Iran and throughout the Arab world. The US pushed them away, because “We” wanted to make an enemy of all Islam, to put us in the foxhole with Israel. Who knows about the spectacle of the “dancing Israelis” (google it) Who can dare ask the question qui bono, and earnestly discuss the issue in the MSM?.
We lie here, helpless and gagged Gulliver. Like a Draft Horse with a harsh bit in it’s mouth, and a midget jockey on his back, our cultural institutions put the consideration of certain foreign policy options OFF THE TABLE.
Peter Saker, America is a plutocracy. A series of networks. A networks of networks where policy is determined by constantly shifting alliances between the networks.
I suspect you have friends in the lobbying business. I would ask them how it works in Washington.
Still, I was stunned to see Hillary implicitly threatening {nuclear} massive retaliation to protect harsh dictatorships like Saudi Arabia and the Gulf tyrannies (seamingly without conditions.) I can’t imagine Senators Lugar, McCain, Biden, or any one else from America’s foreign policy establishment saying something as blatent as that.
And what is she doing saying “massive retaliation.” She can say all appropriate means or some other language. Most Iranians probably dislike Khamenei, and hopefully will succeed in establishing a free democracy in Iran at some point. I don’t think they might like the language.
KSA’s money has corrupted Washington and bought a lot of influence. Is it only my imagination, or are the KSA and Israeli lobbies starting to collaborate.
As you can tell, I am not a fan of the Gulf state royals.
http://www.antiwar.com/roberts/?articleid=12730
I can hope for some grass roots backlash, but without any sort of press coverage ,it would be like the proverbial tree falling in the forest. What does it matter. Without somebody to vote for, what does it matter that a few people are disgusted and angry at being sold out, and even more angry that we have to keep our mouth shut or lose our job. Never! never will you work for Sam Zell and write an editorial like vin wrote. How could our founding fathers imagine that we would be held hostage like this. Sometimes people say its over oil, but thats baloney. If we ever found a way to make Arab oil irreverent, maybe an alternative would arise if the price rises high enough, it would just remove the only restraint we now have on being 100 percent in the zionest neocon ZOA bag, with no oil consequences. The Saudi Arabian royal family is such a US toad, and Kuwait too, that it gives the neocons hope that everybody in the region will eventually kneel. Read the Atlantic magazine article about Israel this month, and you can see how passionate is the love for Israel amount the Jewish elite in this country. To think they could not rationalize their perfidy toward the US be saying- well we are just a plutocracy anyway so-
why can’t WE, American Zionist Jews, control the levers of power in the press, entertainment, and political power, and feel no shame at suppressing debate on possible alternative Middle East postures, and buying/bullying political power? Hell- tha’t the name of the game- right?
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/977085.html
Israel is curse one world, and on the US in particular. Now we see a future president, willing to roast the children of some Israeli foe in a nuclear war, based on some evidence of almost certainly questionable provenance. Before who did what to whom, we are willing to be, for the second time, willing to commit mass murder of a civilian population to cause Hezbolah to stop giving Israel indigestion as it attempts to digest the meal it swallowed in 67.
What do I want. Return to pre 1991 hands off. Let Israel face Iran and work things out for themselves. India and Pakistan face each other with rancor, and the US has faced the USSR like wise. Never, other than the US in world war II, has anybody committed nuclear mass murder from the sky. We should be a force for making the contemplation of such use shameful, but we can’t and won’t because of our legacy of feeling we get too choose an excuse, and then it’s ok.(They started it, or It saved lives, or they would surrender what could we do, or We were good afterward, or They were very bad…) Michael Scheuer has it correct on Israel . Buchanan sometimes does. Maybe McPeak, an Obama adviser, will get it if he is not fired by huge forces at work in any real administration.
We can’t have a national debate in the press if the people in the street only hear what the media decide is allowable. They do their duty as it’s explained to them, to advance world democracy and make the world safe for– something or other.
No point complaining Saker. You need to work on gradually accumulating power and influence in Washington and in other free democracies through your own lobbies, and alliances with other lobbies. It takes, patience, money, and sophistication. Don’t expect shortcuts.
Many communities have done it, the Taiwanese lobby, the Chinese lobby, the Mexican lobby, the Canadian lobby, Cuban Americans, sugar cane farmers, Saudi Arabia, the pro ethanol lobby (the ethanol lobby is very powerful.)
That “IS” the way the game is played in all large plural free democracies.
“Still, I was stunned to see Hillary implicitly threatening {nuclear} massive retaliation to protect harsh dictatorships like Saudi Arabia and the Gulf tyrannies (seamingly without conditions.)”
umm…. anand, Clinton was pledging to protect ISRAEL in a (very) hypothetical situation, not KSA. You do know that…. don’t you???
The reason should be clear to anyone but you: voicing any sort of concern for a Muslim Arab country would barely win Hillary a single vote and would likely lose her very many. Feigning concern for Izzreeel won’t neccessarily win her votes as such (most Americans are unconcerned about the ‘security’ of an insignificant Levantine ethnocracy and certainly will not – openly – go to war on its behalf) but AIPAC, whose support is indispensable in an election year, will countenance no independence from presidential candidates. Which is OK, since such independence is not offered.
Hilary’s a hawk.
When are we going to forbid lobbyism in the US? It would solve so many issues in this country.
We also need laws for The People, and not laws to defend the corporations. We need a country that treat its people like electors and not like subjects.
You need to work on gradually accumulating power and influence in Washington and in other free democracies.
Free democracies Anand? Give me a break.Big money lobbies are a wing of plutocracies. As you said, “america is a plutocracy.”
NOT A DEMOCRACY
Anand: AVATAR of Bloviation
We need to consider the implications of laying our country defenseless to the effects of a waterfall of foreign or money. Foreign includes money from people who have a personal loyalty foremost to Israel or some other country. Unrestrained international capitalism provides a convenient medium for such people to operate and without any check on their purchases of the press and political parties, you can easily lose your country. We are lost – gone. Russia under Putin said to the oligarchs (code word for Jews) that tried to buy up Russia, oil, press, politics etc, same targets as in the US, not on my watch. – With a heavy hand, he stopped them, and to this day, and is wildly popular in Russia. He saved Russia from this sort of predation, but he does use state power to handle press critics.- not much different from using a press that can be purchased for chump change in the US to do your political will. Capitalists in the West sometimes see their political foes like George Soros, plunder the world as in in England in ’92 and in Southeast Asia in ’97. I love Ron Paul but he has no appreciation for the damage this sort of criminal gang can do once all check is removed when they control the bulk of the press and both parties. Putin won one. Like a sheep that sees one of his fellow sheep escape the wolf, even though he himself is caught, some comfort can be found. Putin is a stateist, but the tyranny is local, and I always prefer local to global tyranny, with the hope that moderation is possible. Nowadays, this sort of neocon Zionist cabal is really a criminal gang, shape shifted into a religion, a country (Israel ), a culture, a tradition, … and we can’t object to one facet without the old AntiSemetic – Dryfus crap. Frankly I’m holocausted out. Forget the poor persecuted Jews number. I grieve for my country now.
peter saker:
“The boundary of political discourse is rigidly set by the clique that runs both parties and runs the press.”
Am I the only one in the whole USofA who notices that political discourse between GOP and Democrat supporters is limited to calling each other names, most popular being “lib” and “con”?
I sincerely hope that people are seeing, with McCain campaigning for USA presidency in… Israel, with Hillary offering to nuke Iran to protect… Israel…
I hope that people get see who the American politicians are REALLY pandering to and whose interests they are protecting.
Hint: it is not American citizens, or at least citizens with only one nationality.
Yes, obligatory blogspam – for more vitriol, snazziness and analysis, see my blog.
By the by
WHO is peter saker and can he please do a guest blog post on my blog?
Hillary threatened to Nuke Iran to protect KSA and the other Sunni Arab dictatorships.
Their influence in Congress is amazing (the Gulf States). And their influence in other free democracies is also immense.
Israel is a tiny country with 6.5 million people. Why the big fuss about them one way or the other?
Vineyard, what truer friend in the world does Serbia have than Israel. As a pro-Serb, why don’t you also try to reach out to Israel? Is it just the temporary passing cloud represented by the transient Israel-Shia tiff? It is true that Israel has this stupid tiff going on at the moment with Iran and Iran’s Lebanese allies. But the friends of the Shia and Israel (for example me and I hope many of you) should work to bring the Shia and Israel together against the common enemy, the Takfiri. Let us remember that Israel was the only country in the world to back Iran against the wanna be anti-Christ Saddam. Israel furnished substantial weaponry to Iran, only part of which become popularized by the Iran Contra scandal. {BTW, I backed the Iran Contra transactions. I presume that many pro-Iranian people here had the wisdom and judgment to back the Iran Contra transactions. (Saddam was clearly the bad guy.)} Israel also had the wisdom and judgment to correctly back Amal (Lebanese Shia) in the Lebanese civil war in the late 1970s and early 1980s.
We all know that Israel does some crazy things like segregated settlements. Yes they should stop those stupid things. But to be fair, most countries around the world do stupid things too. Let he who has never sinned cast the first stone.
It is best to engage Israel as a close friend and ally. As a friend we should try to gently persuade Israelis to act in their own interests and in keeping with their own noble values by doing right by the Palestinians.
Go Israel. Go Palestine. Go Hamas. Go Iran. Go Lebanon. Let us unite and crush the Takfiri. Zawahiri just had another Q&A response session where he blasted Hamas and Hezbollah (for spreading the rumors that AQ did not commit 9/11.) AQ and Hamas have had many gun battles with each other.
Let’s get with the program, and not be distracted by our minor differences.
My concern is the crippled media discourse in the US and the
corruption of the political process in the limited scope of regarding
the discussion of Middle East foreign policy. A lobby of powerful Jewish
interests, JINSA, ZOA, …, want a Jewish state from the River Jordan
to the Mediterranean sea. Their idea of national greatness, to
restore the Realm of Zion as in the days of king David or beyond.
The set of such people in the US, in positions of power in the
media and politics, are my concern, because my concern here is the
effect we see on the institutions in the US. Israeli or French or
other Zionists are not my concern. Even the Palestinian cause itself,
as pathetic as it is, in not my concern. The US had its period of
Manifest destiny, and England, and Russia, Japan. … and every problem
in the world should not be our (the US) problem. So then, what of
the Anand position, a.k.a
Rodney King. Assuming Anand IS an American, he will not speak out
against the stranglehold of American Zionist Jews on the press and
both parties because he does not want to aid the enemies of
Israel. So then ,being not exactly an advocate of militant settler
Zionism, he is guilty of subornation of it. Well, the lookout that
does not pull the trigger, the person guilty of subornation of
perjury, and other silent co-conspirators are not innocent either in
the enterprise that has left the US institutions broken and freedom compromised.
Between three and five trillion dollars is a cost says Paul Crag
Roberts. This does not include the coming war against Iran that these
little scamps have planned. Not including the corruption of the US press
which is unable to debate the issue. Not including the crippled
ability of both parties to field candidates with any choice for the
voters. Not including 4000 dead Soldiers so far, and 20,000 plus
seriously wounded. Not including the stain on the name of the in
world, supporting this little devil in the Middle East with arms and
in the UN and with foreign aid, suppressing the plight of the
Palestinians. Our press seems like the old Soviet press in the
crude propaganda smell to it.
Israel itself has a more balanced press
http://www.countercurrents.org/pa-cook140503.htm
HaCohen is living in Israel and writes for antiwar.com
http://antiwar.com/hacohen
I would not be so angry if we could get some of these columnists in
the Chicago Tribune or Sun times, or even the Defender, Streetwise,
— anywhere the man in the street could escape from this relentless
drum beat of Zionist propaganda. On the radio we have clear channel
owned by guess who. TV? totally Israeli Settler movement occupied
territory. Ron Paul was the target of this crowd and successfully
stopped him for now, but Ron Paul had to couch his arguments in “it’s
really better for Israel, and would allow them to do what they need
to do for their dreams of manifest destiny if the US got some formal
distance between the US and Likud. This equivocation was not enough
apparently. Huckabee money showed up to splinter the conservative
vote, and the republican debates featured everybody up there laughing
at Ron Paul, literally. Paul got much less exposure minutes in the debates,
and was successfully marginalized as a kook. I am much more of a
Economic Nationalist that Ron Paul, more like Buchanan probably, and
you can see how the “Congress is Israeli occupied territory” and “The
only people beating the drums for war (the 91 Gulf war) is Israel and
their allies in the congress” made lifelong enemies of guys like
A.M. Rosenthal of the New York Times, that went after him for
years, and they buy ink by the barrel. The Gulf war at least WAS debated,
and only won by 6 votes I think. The hammer came down after that on US
freedom of the press. No longer would the lobby have to roll the bones in a
fully debated congressional vote with a spectrum of voices being heard. Now- in both parties and the press- the fix is in.
“Hillary threatened to Nuke Iran to protect KSA and the other Sunni Arab dictatorships.”
No she did not. You made that up.
“Israel is a tiny country with 6.5 million people. Why the big fuss about them one way or the other?”
I dunno. You are the one who said you wanted your child to grow up to be just like Israel (really, Anand did say this!)
BTW is it a boy or a girl?
Peter Saker, I am an American and agree with you on the importance of campaign finance reform. I don’t like the influence of all lobbies, including but not limited to the Israeli lobby, on the American political system.
I do believe that we share a common humanity, and that the problems of some cannot be separated from the problems of all in our interdependent world. That does not make me less of an American.
Peter, the Israelis should stop the settlements. Several good Arab Americans and Iraqi Americans that I know are quite upset by it, and I respect the sensibilities of these and many of America’s friends about Israeli settlements.
Irish eyes, I don’t understand the deep fuss about Israel. Israel is much admired in India and Asia more generally for many things. Including its tenacity, economic achievements, and ability to survive in a hostile neighborhood. Israel is perceived in most of the world as an underdog surviving against great odds. Israel’s ability to influence America is also greatly admired around the world (what spunk from a tiny and seemingly insignificant nation.) At the same time, most of Israel’s admirers strongly disagree with Settlements and believe Israel should retreat to the 1967 borders.
Irish eyes, this might seem contradictory, but it is true. As you know, India buys billions of dollars worth of weapons from Israel. Israel and India engage in joint training exercise on Indian soil (probably in Kashmir, although neither party talks about it.) India is also one of Israel’s most important trading and investment partners. High tech firms in both countries work very closely together. Most of India’s 1.2 billion residents are good people. The fact that many admire Israel (while not agreeing with Israel on many issues . . . actually, few Indians that I speak to know much about Palestine one way or another, but I believe that if someone told them about it, I believe they would disagree with these Israel on many issue) suggests that Israel can’t be all bad. Indians are renowned for their virtues and their association with Israel is a testimony to Israel’s own values.
Ditto for Japan by the way. Japan and Israel are becoming closer. So is Israel and Malaysia. Both Japan and Malaysia are good countries. Their goodness blesses Israel by association. Russia and Turkey are other close Israeli allies.
Irish eyes, I am not white washing Israel’s many mistakes, or Israel’s failure to live up to its own values with respect to the Palestinians. I am asking you to open up your eyes. Israel has many friends and allies other than America. Please think about why this is the case.
As an aside, I am often surprised at how pro-Israeli anti-American Indians are. I suspect this is true in many other countries too.
If Israel were to return to the ’67 borders, dismantle all the west bank settlements, and tell the American Likudniks to jump in a lake, I would say the rosary in kneeling in the street, Praying for the citizens of Israel to stay safe behind the green line. Syria and Iran would follow suite I bet. This is an impossible dream. We all know it. American Zionists are the most militant. We have two states, Israel and Iran, founded with a Religion as their defining core, vying for regional supremacy. Jews would view the secularization of Israel as the end of the world, and will throw the US under any bus to prevent this. I think the one state solution, the destruction of Israel as a sole Jewish state, making it just another democracy, as the only way I know to bring to bear the full potential US propaganda leverage against non democratic apartheid states. My only goal is to free the US from the coming regional war with Iran. All I want to do is to remove the US from the region and return to a pre 1991 posture in the Middle East. That’s IT. Israel has about 10 years to digest the West bank. They are afraid to death of Iran and Hizbolah, not because of nukes, but because they will actually fight Israel in territories and Lebanon. Nobody else in the region will do that.
Israeli American Zionism is a bone in the throat of the USA. Somehow or other we need to find a way to dislodge it.
“Israel has many friends and allies other than America. Please think about why this is the case.”
Not sure why I should think having ‘friends’ in the US is a good thing, but the fact is most Americans couldn’t give a toss for Israel and are completely indifferent to its existence. Of course fools like the Clintons are bamboozled into prostrating themselves at the altar of Zion, not because they love the country but because the absurd nature of lobbying in the US gives them no other option. I, however, know that you are far too naive to understand or admit that.
BTW you never answered my question about your child called Israel.
Peter,
“We have two states, Israel and Iran, founded with a Religion as their defining core”
This is not true. Obviously Israel is founded on the Jewish religion and ‘ethnicity’ but Iran existed as a secular state long before the Islamic Republic did. Or Israel did for that matter. I suspect it will endure long after both of the others are a footnote in history.
Hillary is out of control. The way she turned on the Palestinians suddenly in 2000 is just so Hillary.
Papa Bush didn’t mind standing up to the Israelis. (He was backed by the Arabist lobby of course.)
Don’t expect that from Hillary.
Actually, McCain is likely to stand up to Israel (as a friend . . . I too am a friend of Israel) much more than Hillary or Obama. Hillary will stand up to them least. I am not her fan.
Being friends with powerful groups inside America and other large free plural democracies is very valuable. Israel is amazingly good at it, to its own credit.
Israel has also done an amazing job lobbying inside India. A friend of mine works for the American Jewish council lobbying top members of the Indian political class. No one does it as well as Israel.
Irish Eyes, most countries would kill to be as good as Isreal in lobbying other large important countries (Japan, Germany, Russia and Turkey also jump to mind with respect to the powerful pro-Israel lobby.)
Peter, Israeli paranoia is only part of the problem. The other part of the problem is the many sunni arabs (and some Shiites it pains me to admit) who are strongly committed to the destruction of the state of Israel.
Israel has to reach out to the Palestinians. The Palestinians will also have to help protect Israel from Israel’s many very dangerous enemies. Palestinians have to protect Israeli citizens who choose to live in the Palestinian state. In fact the Palestinians should encourage the half million Israeli citizens in the West Bank to become dual citizens and to continue to live in a Palestinian state. All Israelis who want to live in, visit, or do business in Palestine should be treated respectfully as brothers and sisters. All holy cites need to be protected. Palestinians should do all in their power to protect Israel from Israel’s enemies. In return, Israel should withdraw to the 1967 borders, and offer the Palestinians a Marshall Plan to make Palestine more successful than Dubai.
Just imagine how powerful and successful Israel and Palestine would be as close allies.
Israel has to treat the Palestinians much better. But, there is a reason Israel is so paranoid.
Anand you’re crazy. Imagine a Palestinian looking up at an Israeli settlement that he could not visit, at a Israeli security road he would be shot for even approaching, at a concrete wall erected around his town, at the roadblocks maned by Israeli soldiers who are unconstrained by anybody or any reason in how long they man detain or stop the line, at the confiscated land the Palestinian farmers fathers father farmed, being taken, at wanton destruction of olive trees and any assets it pleases the settlers to destroy, Israel is economically strangling and economically isolating these small Palestinian islands – Settlers want Palestinians gone, or at least diminished in every way, like Indians on a reservation in the US but much much worse. This is a brutal a subjugation as South Africa ever contemplated. 6 million people in a outdoor prison, walled in and marked for destruction. You go on about partnerships, but it’s self serving nonsense. – and you must know it.
OK that said, I don’t want the US to wade in there in any capacity. One Obama supporter, Susan powers, said at one point she wanted the US to actually occupy the west bank and fix this injustice. So you going to vote for him then?
Not me- I just want OUT of the entire mess. Massive disengagement.
So you don’t think the Iranian regime is a theocracy? The mullahs make the final decisions there. you’re just plain wrong. I see Iran and Israel as both founded with Religion as their core principle. We should not be involved in the Middle East at all.
“I too am a friend of Israel”
No! Really? I would never have guessed.
But why do you persistently refuse to answer my questions about your adorable baby called Israel? Is it growing up to be just as cute as the place you named it after?
Anand- you have to face up to it. Zionist Jews are, for the most part, meaner than snakes. You, on the other hand, are either lying or deluded.
Suppose, somehow (and this could not really happen) that Obama got elected. He is a political creature too and his Susan Powers advice to occupy the west bank would not be possible politically .Suppose it was though. Imagine those nasty Russian settlers agreeing to be part of a majority Palestinian state, dismantling their fortress settlements, abandoning their privilege, opening their special Jews only security roads, tearing down the walls around the Palestinian villages, giving back the stolen land. Sure– The US marines would end up shooting some of the RIGHT people(the imperious settlers). The majority of Palestinians would be overjoyed. The settlers — Haganah II. They fought the Brits for a Jewish state, and the West Bank Settlers and Jews from green line days would fight the Americans.They are good at being terrorists if they need to be to win. Your vision of a secular state on the West Bank, shared by both cultures would make you a target too as a collaborator. You then, with your fairy tale West Bank visions, might have to decide too.
These settlers, particularly the Russians, are hard men with the dream of a greater Israel, and you know that.
They are bullies in the US to the extend they need to be, to keep the US in the Doug Feith ZOA JINSA radical settler camp. In Europe, where there are more Arabs and a freer exchange of ideas, old professors like Robert Faurisson need to get beat up from time to time.
There we can see what the Zionist Jews will do if they need to.
http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/printer_26543.shtml
But whatever it takes, they will do to their hapless host countries. Israel is a nightmare idea. Plunk down 5 or 6 million Jews into a sea of Arabs, take their land, and expect them to kneel- Use all the propaganda muscle and international money from Jews around the world to make the dream of a greater Israel a reality, or at least not fail. “Next year in Jerusalem” yall.