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Secretary Kerry and Foreign Minister Lavrov Meet in Moscow

14582 Views December 16, 2015 Speeches, Statements and Interviews The Saker

Tagged
  • John Kerry
  • Sergei Lavrov
  • Syria

44 Comments

  1. Uncle Bob 1 on December 17, 2015  ·  at 12:23 am EST/EDT

    I wish the English subs hadn’t all of a sudden cut off during Lavrov’s answers to questions. It would have been interesting to hear what he thought about the Saudi Syrian opposition meeting. And the groups they gathered together. That I think may be the breaking point of the ceasefire talks. The US and Saudi’s will certainly try to include terrorist groups in those talks. And I don’t see Syria agreeing to that.

    • blue on December 17, 2015  ·  at 12:34 am EST/EDT

      Video from US DoS — I guess Lavrov said something the US doesn’t want people to hear.

  2. Anonymous on December 17, 2015  ·  at 1:14 am EST/EDT

    So, a climb-down on Syria, and now the US has just called upon Turkey to withdraw from Iraq:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-16/dramatic-reversal-us-vice-president-biden-calls-turkey-withdraw-its-troops-turkey

    Are we seeing a policy adjustment on the part of the US/NATO?

    • zweistein on December 17, 2015  ·  at 12:04 pm EST/EDT

      Despite uncountable big-mouthed statements by all the ‘movers & shakers’ in the NATO camp, what options does the US really have beyond the airy-fairy media-scape?

      The war in Syria was won by Russia and Syria on the very day the Russian Air Force landed in Latakia nearly three months ago. And the whole world watched, mouth open.

      A very painful defeat for exceptional ones, for sure. But there are many more battles to come.

      The Daesh Road Show, co-produced by the CIA. MI6 and Mossad, is already moving via Libya and Mali to the rest of Africa. Maybe to Central Asia.

      The Russians are ready. I hope that China and Iran are too.

    • A Critic on December 18, 2015  ·  at 9:59 am EST/EDT

      I was wondering the same thing myself. Why did Kerry go to Moscow? Just to flap his lips? It wouldn’t be the first time but *if* the US was to change course, going to Moscow would be the first step. The second step might be to pull out of Incirlik, like, pulling F-15s out of Turkey, which just happened.

      On the other hand, Washington is making noise about “we’re not on the same page with Russia!” and “Kerry be damned, we hate you Russia!” So, who knows, but it’d be foolish to bet that the US gave up on trying to own the planet.

  3. Anonymous on December 17, 2015  ·  at 2:14 am EST/EDT

    Something big is brewing. First, after meeting with Putin, Kerry backtracks on the US “Assad must go” stance. Second, Biden just called on Turkey to withdraw from Iraq. Finally, the IMF has recognized Ukraine’s $3 billion debt to Russia as official and sovereign. Something huge went down at that meeting in Moscow.

    • Uncle Bob 1 on December 17, 2015  ·  at 2:53 am EST/EDT

      Maybe,but when your enemies start to act “friendly”. I think its time to make sure the safety is off your pistol. I’ve seen too many mafia movies to buy the friendly act from the US.

      • Anonymous on December 17, 2015  ·  at 4:18 am EST/EDT

        I think exactly the same.

        “Their tongue is a deadly arrow;
        it speaks deceitfully.

        With their mouths they all speak cordially to their neighbors,
        but in their hearts they set traps for them.”

        • Ana on December 17, 2015  ·  at 1:19 pm EST/EDT

          Yup – in order to regain the initiative the US will need a blindside….

      • Ivan on December 17, 2015  ·  at 5:07 pm EST/EDT

        Well, if you look at it from a pragmatic perspective then there are no friends, they maybe just made a real deal that solves some of the big issues between US and Russia.

        The US will of course also get something out of it, we just don’t know yet to what they have all agreed.

      • TooLegit2Quit on December 17, 2015  ·  at 11:53 pm EST/EDT

        For what it’s worth, I’ll add my voice to this choir…

        I have very little faith on these latest seemingly ‘positive’ developments.
        I don’t like them, not one bit.
        USians bearing gifts cannot be trusted. Period.

        But as ever… I hope I’m wrong and brighter days lie ahead for us all.

        -TL2Q

    • alan on December 17, 2015  ·  at 5:21 am EST/EDT

      yes, US has removed their F15s as well from a Turkish airport. no idea what’s going on.
      If all these actions are trust-worthy, then it could only be because Obozo finally found out that neocon hawks has been doing their own policies behind his back and decided to stop it before whole world blows up??

  4. srad on December 17, 2015  ·  at 2:23 am EST/EDT

    Amazing stuff just happened!
    Us reversed completly their Syrian policy, reversed their Ukrainian policy, severely distanced them selves from Turkey, incapacitated IMF in Ukraine, maybe eurozone in general including Greece and UN just given Iran the green light!
    All within 24 h!

    One could believe that Putin is a highlander and he lives forever!

    • vot tak on December 17, 2015  ·  at 4:11 am EST/EDT

      srad

      “One could believe that Putin is a highlander and he lives forever!”

      Didn’t you know?

      Is Putin Immortal? The Internet Loses Its Mind Over the Question

      Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20151217/1031870020/immortal-putin.html

      “In fact, supporters of the thesis that Putin is almighty and immortal have launched a story that their president is a mythical creature that resides on our planet for hundreds, if not thousands of years,” Disclose.tv has declared.”

      ;D

    • Ann on December 17, 2015  ·  at 5:24 am EST/EDT

      Kerry isn’t USA…he’s one aspect of it.

      • zweistein on December 17, 2015  ·  at 12:08 pm EST/EDT

        Kerry is a chameleon. When in Moscow, he talks like a Cossack. When among neo-cons, he talks like a chicken-hawk.

  5. Red Ryder on December 17, 2015  ·  at 2:52 am EST/EDT

    The US wants to control things and Turkey is a problem. Getting them out of the way is a minor inconvenience. Turkey will obey.

    They will bring in the Saudi coalition to do the same trouble-making, so they lose nothing.

    The US goal is 3 Iraqs, so Iran only has the south, Shia area. For Syria, the idea will be to divide it with a Kurdish area and an area for opponents of Assad, the Sunni opposition.

    What is unknown is how much of Syria Putin wants for Assad and the future. If he has plans of the pre-2011 borders, then the US will really have a problem. ISIS is going to be destroyed.

    The question is will it all be moved to Libya and Afghanistan and Iraq or will it be sent into SA to destabilize the kingdom? Chaos is the US game. The junior hegemon to control the ME will be Israel (already nuked up, loves to use the IDF, and now has huge gas field off-shore and oil in the Golan Heights. (That belongs to Syria, but will there have to be war to get it back or will Putin work some deal for Syria?)

    The next phase of global hegemony is for the Hegemon to use proxy junior hegemons. In Asia, it will be Abe’s Rising Sun Imperialist military. In the ME it will be Israel. The EU and NATO serve to contain Europe and Turkey and its Turkic connections were supposed to be used in the regions of Europe and Eurasia where locals could be used against Russia.

    The US would then work in Africa to collapse China’s inroads, and in Latin America where both Russia and China have connected. Argentina is already lost, Venezuela is crippled, and Brazil is being destabilized.

    Ultimately, destroying the BRICS, crippling the EAEU, and containing the OROB of China, the Eurasian-Silk Road dreams would be ended.

    Could the US tie down and drain Russia in Syria?
    The dumping of the US oil reserves on the market is to drop the price into the 20-25 dollar a barrel range. That would cause another 1% or so negative GDP, keeping the recession beyond 2016 in Russia and causing real pressure on military and new weapons development.

    Syria is more than a battlefield. Iran has been very slow to see the total geopolitical containment that Syria divided provides unless the Hegemon gets an Iran that obeys.

    The feckless Obama and weak Kerry are not the thinkers and shapers of the Hegemon’s power.
    The momentum and the means (terror and chaos) are still in favor of the Hegemon’s goals.

    The AFRICOM command will keep North Africa and the rest of the continent a war zone for decades. It is a huge playground for proxies and special covert operations.

    In the minutes I’ve been writing this, I see the news that the US is withdrawing some planes based in Incirlik Air Base, Turkey. 12 F-15s. Ostensibly to make room for coalition planes.

    So, you see, the US foot print is being substituted with local proxies.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-3362804/US-pull-warplanes-Turkey.html

    • Diaspora_M on December 17, 2015  ·  at 6:28 am EST/EDT

      I don’t think it will be all roses as you imagine them to be R.R. How about you toss some negatives in there eh? You’re always such an optimist….

      Now that a li’l sarcasm is out of the way. Should I just kill myself or wait for the reciprocal Russian nukes to fall on me?

      • Anonymous on December 17, 2015  ·  at 7:33 pm EST/EDT

        I just look at things without preconceived notions or hopes.

        The multipolar evolution is really centered around financial matters. Currency, balance of trade, trading blocks, foreign capital flows, and control of natural resources.

        The component of military aggression, military containment, military bases, missile defense systems, Internet-cyber warfare, vassal alliances are separate Hegemonic tools of power.

        The first group is well under change because of China’s wealth, the new investment banks of the AIIB, NDB of the BRICS, the connection of EAEU with OROB of the Silk Road and the synergy of China and Russia.

        The chaos machines of the US and NATO and now Japan are perpetual motion machines of war, conflict and special operations (by professional militaries and/or contractors). These will continue as I indicated across many regions of undeveloped Muslim regions, emerging economies and destabilized nations (including parts of Europe).

        • Red Ryder on December 18, 2015  ·  at 12:42 am EST/EDT

          The above Anonymous was me. Beg your pardon for the slip.

          • Diaspora_M on December 18, 2015  ·  at 8:15 am EST/EDT

            It is all well and good I recognized you from the tone and content of your message.

            Still your analysis tends toward a grizzly end that seems inevitable. I prefer to consider the possibility that Murphy’s law might work in our favor from time to time.

  6. mmiriww on December 17, 2015  ·  at 3:00 am EST/EDT

    Dont know if this is real or Photoshopped… Its a potent message if real..

    The Russian people actually tricked French Senator Yves Pozzo into holding a white t-shirt with the slogan across it while he was visiting the nation last year. The phrase even made it into Wikipedia, but it was later removed after people unsurprisingly took offense to it.

    Last week’s disgustingly racist scandal finally broke the patience of the U.S. Embassy in Moscow, which had been silent despite all of the vulgar anti-Obama assaults in Russia. The high-end Bakhetle supermarket chain displayed cutting boards styled as the 2016 calendar that, according to Chinese horoscopes, will be ‘the year of monkey.’

    “It is disgusting to see that such blatant racism has a place on Russian store shelves,” Will Stevens, the spokesperson for the US Embassy in Moscow wrote on his Twitter.

    “The product features a family of monkeys,” AFP reported, “with an image of Obama’s face superimposed onto that of the smallest primate.”

    http://madworldnews.com/putins-message-obama-airbase/

    • Outlaw Historian on December 17, 2015  ·  at 7:55 pm EST/EDT

      Ah, seems to be a shortsightedness by the manufacturer since George W Bush, Cheney, Colin Powell, Condolezza Rice, and Karl Rove weren’t included in the primates. Surely, the US Embassy wouldn’t have objected if they’d been included.

      • A Critic on December 18, 2015  ·  at 10:18 am EST/EDT

        Ah, seems to be a shortsightedness by the manufacturer since George W Bush, Cheney, Colin Powell, Condolezza Rice, and Karl Rove weren’t included in the primates.

        You seem to be confusing primates with reptiles.

  7. C I eh? on December 17, 2015  ·  at 3:36 am EST/EDT

    Russia wins?

    U.S. pulls F-15 fighter jets from Turkey

    The U.S. is withdrawing a dozen F-15 fighters from the key Turkish air base of Incirlik, less than two months after their arrival.

    The fighters — six F-15Cs from the 48th Fighter Wing and six F-15Es from the 48th Fighter Wing — will be returning to Europe. The U.S. will still maintain a dozen A-10 Warthog close-air support fighters at the base, located about 100 miles from the border with Syria.

    The six F-15Cs from the 48th Fighter Wing arrived at Incirlik on Nov. 6 to help protect Turkish airspace.

    http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/2015/12/16/12-usaf-f-15-fighters-returning-raf-lakenheath-turkey/77419528/

    F-15Cs are air to air combat only, long in service and still America’s top fighters. One can imagine Putin telling Kerry, if ISIS is the target, why send your very best fighters? Who are the F15’s meant to threaten?

    Russia has won this argument and the US will withdraw these 6 plus 6 more F-15Es multirole/ground attack fighters from Incirlik airbase (leaving who knows what else) while Biden apparently backs Iraq PM al-Abadi and the US tells Turkey to get out of Iraq.

    Really and truly.

    US says Turkey must pull unauthorized forces from Iraq

    http://bigstory.ap.org/c239a9097c6342099f09ead384b694f7

    Back to the begining of the bombing campaign, September 30, Russia’s objective was to stabilize the situation for ally Syria, block a NATO-Turkey-Israel invasion and possibly to reverse military momentum ahead of a negotiated political settlement.

    Mission accomplished, sort of anyway.

    On the ground both sides continue mobilizing seperately whilst pretending their efforts are cooperative. The Syrians are winning turf but must be careful not overextend themselves. The offensive must continue as the Russian-Syrian coalition further stabilizes an adequate and defensible beach head — still awaiting bearded Siberian reinforcements from the east.

    Have no fear, Iranians will come in large numbers in 2016. Thierry Meyssan’s recent article says nothing about them but he is in close contact with pivotal Iran. His silence speaks volumes. If he says an army is coming then there’s reason to believe it.

    You can be sure, the Russians and Iranians are doing privately what the Saudi salafi-nutjob coalition are doing publically. In occupied western Novorussia locals are readying themselves for a hard winter plus maybe an uprising. There will definitely be problems with EU gas deliveries this winter and Russia won’t be blamed. Zio media have overplayed that record and no one will listen nor will they have enough electricity to waste on high def digital propaganda.

    As soon as the weather gets cold the Ukies will default to their national pastime of extortion. EU citizens could very easily be made to revolt and Russia might be needed to ride to the rescue, or else EU leadership can freeze like Nazi-ckles. I predict Russia will soon find itself being forced to ‘save’ Europe from catastrophe by smashing the Ukie junta as far as Odessa. That would be logical and give the Nazi freaks somewhere to go. Thereafter Russia could kick the ZIo-Uniats around for another thirty years if it is their most ardent wish.

    Without concrete Iranian support Russia would be virtually alone against the world in Syria and definitely have no other choice but to make a tactical withdrawal. Since this is not happening and Putin is not sucidal, it is reasonable to conclude an Ayatollah surprise is well on its way.

    Or else Putin has help from Aliens.

    • Anonymous on December 17, 2015  ·  at 6:40 am EST/EDT

      Is Putin receiving help from aliens? Maybe he is (no joke): http://exopolitics.org/is-russia-using-weapons-developed-with-extraterrestrial-help-in-syrian-civil-war/

      • Carmel by the Sea on December 18, 2015  ·  at 6:27 pm EST/EDT

        I believe Putin is helped and has been put there by God Himself.

        “and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? “—Romans 8:31

  8. vot tak on December 17, 2015  ·  at 4:41 am EST/EDT

    Agree with those expecting a stab in the back will accompany that friendly pindo smile and handshake. The zionazis and nazis running that colony wouldn’t have it any other way. Duplicity is their religion.

  9. Emmanuel Goldstein on December 17, 2015  ·  at 4:47 am EST/EDT

    Something big happened all right….perhaps VVP showed them with hard evidence that he really does know what is going on, and now has the means and advanced technologies to do something about it and the GlobalDom game is about to run into the sand…….

    • zweistein on December 17, 2015  ·  at 12:22 pm EST/EDT

      It’s nothing of the sort. It is simple decency, intelligence and a bit of Russian humor.

  10. Anonymous on December 17, 2015  ·  at 4:50 am EST/EDT

    @Anonymous on December 17, 2015 · at 2:14 am UTC

    Something big is brewing. First, after meeting with Putin, Kerry backtracks on the US “Assad must go” stance. Second, Biden just called on Turkey to withdraw from Iraq. Finally, the IMF has recognized Ukraine’s $3 billion debt to Russia as official and sovereign. Something huge went down at that meeting in Moscow.

    Somehow I don’t have a good feeling too from this SUDDEN meeting with attendance also of Mrs. Nuland, the snake

    Unfortunately I have somehow same feeling as @Uncle Bob 1 on December 17, 2015 · at 2:53 am UTC

    There is something very fishy going on and we just have to hope it is going to have a good end and the sober brain will vin

  11. mmiriww on December 17, 2015  ·  at 6:05 am EST/EDT

    SAA in Jobar making use of aid provided by rich countries…
    https://twitter.com/sayed_ridha/status/677142360870928384

    The video shows why the going is so slow in the mountains.. These guys had years to dig tunnels under rock so not even bunker busters would work. New batch of TOS sure helps in situations like this.

    SAA take control of Sheer Al-Sahab & Mt 793 in Latakia countryside overlooking Al-Sermaniyah in Al-Ghab Plain
    Syria RPO-A Shmel Thermobaric rockets used by NDF/SAA in Jabal Al Nuba against rebels /JN.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AayuHEMfz1A&feature=youtu.be

    Terrorists in syria..
    Photos of North Caucasian group Ajnad Kavkaz, possibly in Idlib
    https://twitter.com/Weissenberg7/status/676945669584756736

    Looks like SyAF is already using the base for missions..
    Longer video from Kweires airbase in #Aleppo shows L-39 been loaded with what looks like OFAB 100-120
    https://twitter.com/Ald_Aba/status/677238830920019968

    Iranian-built SBIG/DIO Hadid HM-20 122 mm MLRS based on Mercedes-Benz NG 2626 in Southern #Aleppo
    https://twitter.com/Ald_Aba/status/675053314355122183

    62 KDP Zrevani forces killed by ISIS close to Bashiqa, including 4 senior officers.

    During meeting between president Putin & General Soleimani, Russian president called IRGC Quds Force Commander as “my friend, Qassem”.

    Shiite allies of #SAA #NDF. #ShiaMilitias #ShiaMuslims #Squad arrives in Syria from Iraq and Iran.

    https://twitter.com/IvanSidorenko1/status/677359019057614848

  12. blue on December 17, 2015  ·  at 8:58 am EST/EDT

    http://sputniknews.com/russia/20151217/1031880586/putin-annual-press-conference.html
    WATCH LIVE: Russian President Holds Annual Year-End Press Conference
    12:00 17.12.2015Get short URL
    Topic:
    Putin’s 2015 Annual Year-End Press Conference (4)
    07700
    Russian President Vladimir Putin is holding a major end-of-the-year press conference, addressing the nation’s economic concerns and issues on the international agenda.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=58IHMW1g2J0
    LIVE: Putin holds annual presser in Moscow [English translation]

    [english on audio right channel]

  13. Pat on December 17, 2015  ·  at 1:07 pm EST/EDT

    Pat … thesaker.is apprciates comments that are thought provoking and informative. This comment was your vitriolic personal opinion of Mr Lavrov. Future comments of this style will be sent directly to trash … mod-hs

  14. Hamis on December 17, 2015  ·  at 1:19 pm EST/EDT

    All I see is a man trying to decieve his enemies into letting their guards down. So now that the enemies have decided to come close, I hope Putin stays more alert than ever.

  15. RayB on December 17, 2015  ·  at 4:37 pm EST/EDT

    Re: “something big is happening” here……….

    Oh yaaaaaaaah…….. But exactly what?

    A.Either Obama and the American empire has blinked first in the face of V V Putin’s Russian might and is now backing off and down from a major confrontation with an angry (nuclear armed) bear.

    Or else B. It’s just stepping sideways and out of the way as a tactical strategy (as was seemingly done with Minsk) to save face and to avoid being being critically mauled, while it passes over the task of doing all of it’s dirty work against Syria and Iraq to it’s favored terrorist sponsoring subcontractor Saudi Arabia and Qatar and their newly formed 32 “Sunni Islamic” gulf states alliance, ready to fight it’s own creation if you want to believe it.

    So WTF? Now we have a total of three separate alliances (ostensibly) fighting ISIS terrorist in the middle east composed of the 65 US/NATO lead countries from the west and now (supposedly) another 32 (Sunni) Arab League states from the east (totaling some 97 states) working separately and at cross purposes if not directly against the Russian/Syrian/Iranian+Hezbollah alliance which is actually the only one doing the real work of eradicating IS in Syria and the terrorist menace to the rest of the world.

    Excepting for considerations of diplomacy and playing along with the empires game, why doesn’t Putin just tell them all to f-off and get the hell out off Syria while Russia and the SAA & Iran & Hezbollah actually get’s the job done, else they’ll just have to blow all of the “alliances” uninvited jet bombers out of the air over Syrians sovereign sky’s with it’s newly installed S400 and other aerial missal defense systems.

    Meanwhile after Russia’s verbally made it’s displeasure’s clear about having it’s jet bomber downed by Turkey over Syria (an act fully supported by NATO and the USA) and having now given the US some 4 forewarning hints to date of it’s nuclear capabilities and resolve to defend itself, I’m hoping to God that Noble Peace Prize winning Obama (and company) have finally realized that Putin’s exposing their proxy terrorist games and nuclear first strike bluffs, and that as supreme commander of the most powerful nation on earth, Obama’s not keen on leaving his office and post having himself started world war 3 (and the last world war), nor happy at the prospect of himself being radioactively vaporized in the processes.

    Meanwhile we’ll all have to wait and see what further damage he’ll try and have his proxy terrorist armies inflict on the people of the middle east and on the resistance in the Ukraine as well as on the heart of Russia herself.

  16. AGS on December 17, 2015  ·  at 5:18 pm EST/EDT

    WOW. It’s crazy how fast things can change. In the twinkling of an eye. Been waiting and watching for several years. Was an early commenter here. After a while seemed appropriate to be silent. And watch for signs that the worm had finally turned. For me yesterday was it.

    Kinda funny. In my head I’d been planning relocating to Russia. Cause moral sanity has been squandered and destroyed by US gov’t. So why not live in a country that promotes qualities America once valued? Then I realized. Russia doesn’t want a bunch of idiot Americans to emigrate. Russians stayed and endured years of abuse by Bolshevik-fukwits. Why let Americans escape to Russia after allowing these same ZOG-fukwits take over a once decent nation?

    So I’ll stay put. Where my ancestors lived for the past 250 years.
    Because when rats and vermin infest your home. You don’t pack-up and move in with a neighbor. Just cause you’re too lazy or stupid to protect your home. But a good neighbor helps you find the vermin. Clean out infestations. Remove the debris. And encourages you to go back and take care of your property. And be good neighbors in return when others need similar help.

    Russia is helping America clean out the vipers.

    So as much as I’d like to move to Russia. Cause Russians are very cool these days. I’ve decided to hang-tough and endure. Broom and rat-trap in hand. My ancestors sacrificed for me to be here. I owe them.

    Oh. And I’m gonna write-in VVPutin on my ballot next November. He’s done more for America than any US politician. And he deserves THIS Americans’ gratitude and vote. So thanks.

    P.S. I have sons. They will NEVER harm Russians for Anglo-Zionist fukwits. You have my word.

    • Outlaw Historian on December 17, 2015  ·  at 8:04 pm EST/EDT

      What do you think of Putin endorsing Trump given your idea that Russia is trying to help deal with the rats and vipers?

      • blue on December 17, 2015  ·  at 9:05 pm EST/EDT

        I had to look that up. From what I see what he said was not exactly an endorsement, but rather a ‘maneuver’ with comparison to the other candidates, and maybe Putin figures he has the guy’s number and knows how to deal with him — as opposed to the chaotic psychopaths who are running and part of the establishment loony bin. Putin’s thinking is subtle.

      • A Critic on December 18, 2015  ·  at 10:42 am EST/EDT

        You should go watch the video again because I was watching it live and Putin most definitely did not endorse Trump. The question was something like “if Trump was elected, do you think you could work with him?” The answer was “yes, he’s a businessman and I think I could work with him” which is a far cry from “I love Trump and you should elect him!”

    • Jim of Olym on December 18, 2015  ·  at 4:48 am EST/EDT

      If I can’t have Putin (since he wasn’t born here according to the Constitution) I’ll take Bernie for seconds. He has problems but he seems to be the ‘best of the rest’.

  17. Human 2.0 on December 18, 2015  ·  at 8:18 am EST/EDT

    re: “Something big is brewing”.

    Boring times looming ahead for WW3 cheerleaders.

    No biggie.

    • WW3 Cheerleader Incarnate on December 18, 2015  ·  at 7:03 pm EST/EDT

      @ Human 2.0

      Hmm. Which one was it … life is then not worth dying … or … death is then not worth living…

      • Human 2.0 on December 19, 2015  ·  at 3:04 am EST/EDT

        Dunno..

        As far as oriental lore is concerned, when pursuing mental massage one may either opt in for ‘interesting times’ or a ‘happy ending’..

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