STEPHEN COHEN: Well, I think you’ve emphasized the absolute flaw in at least the American—because I don’t follow the European press that closely—the American media and political narrative. As a historian, I would say that this conflict began 300 years ago, but we can’t do that. As a contemporary observer, it certainly began in November 2013 when the European Union issued an ultimatum, really, to the then-president, elected president, of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych, that “Sign an agreement with us, but you can’t have one with Russia, too.” In my mind, that precipitated this crisis, because why give a country that has been profoundly divided for centuries, and certainly in recent decades, an ultimatum—an elected president: “Choose, and divide your country further”? So when we say today Putin initiated this chaos, this danger of war, this confrontation, the answer is, no, that narrative is wrong from the beginning. It was triggered by the European Union’s unwise ultimatum.
Now flash forward to just one month ago, about the time I was with you before. Remember that the European foreign ministers—three of them, I think—went to Kiev and negotiated with Yanukovych, who was still the president, an agreement. Now, the Russians were present at the negotiation, but they didn’t sign it. But they signed off on it. They said, “OK.” What did that agreement call for? Yanukovych would remain president until December—not May, when elections are now scheduled, but December of this year. Then there would be a presidential election. He could run in them, or not. Meanwhile, there would be a kind of government of national accord trying to pull the government together. And, importantly, Russia would chip in, in trying to save the Ukrainian economy. But there would also be parliamentary elections. That made a lot of sense. And it lasted six hours.
I’ll be short. Firstly Mr Putin said – “if they only try to shoot women and children!”.
Then, Messrs. Lavrov and Putin decidedly and ad nauseam repeated RF was not going to enter/invade Ukraine (pay attention to diplomatic language).
Now, Mr. Lavrov pointed with His finger the culprits of Ukrainian mess (US loons) and conformed Russia will eventually move into Ukraine (pay attention to diplomatic language) what means in the light of all events it will happen sooner then later (not “it would”).
You (readers) and me are impervious to the Western propaganda so what was the purpose of all the Russian games with the West if they knew very well the West would do anything to implode/explode Ukrainian crucible?
Sigh.
The time is right, having the Ukrainian thugs concentrated in several camps (I’m not talking about Ukrainian Army, they will not fight their brothers).
But the move must be quick in two directions Kiev-Odessa and Charkov-Crimea.
Great interview. I noticed that Lavrov confirmed that the zionazis were about to do to Crimea what they did to Kiev. The USN construction contracts for Crimea show that Sevastopol was intended to be a USN base eventually, so their hysterical reaction to seeing those plans scuppered by the “polite armed men in green” is indicative how much they had wanted Sevastopol.
Another thing is Lavrov stressed how the Americans immediately sabotaged agreements after signing them. As Lavrov said, they “pocket their gains, and then do not follow through with what they had agreed to do” (paraphrase). They falsely accuse the other side of practices they themselves were engaging in, and they beginning adding new demands, falsely claiming the agreement was about those, too.
This is exactly how Israel negotiates and applies agreements they agree to. The USA has always been dishonest about applying agreements it makes, but with the Israeli influence now securely emplaced in the American establishment, one can see the USA slowly becoming fully israelisized, taking on the “israeli personality”, if you will, in how it conducts all its affairs.
I am struck by the look on Lavrov’s face, and somehow reminded of a couple hundred years of Indian chiefs who likewise saw things clearly and spoke truth to power while we lied, cheated, killed, blamed, broke our word and… “won” damned near the entire continent.
Meanwhile, in other news, “The far-right extremist Right Sector group has relocated its HQ from Kiev to the southeastern city Dnepropetrovsk, said it’s nationalist leader Dmitry Yarosh who has been put on the international wanted list by Russia. According to him, it’s easier to monitor the situation in eastern Ukraine from Dnepropetrovsk.
Yarosh also denies using tycoon’s funding “in politics.” However “when there is ongoing war we are not against them funding the army,” he noted.”
“The practice of regime change through color revolutions and destabilization practiced by the US can currently being seen in countries all over the world including Ukraine, Venezuela and the Serbskaya Republic. Russia has faced the entire US color revolution architecture and thanks to its strong security services was able to successfully fend off this form of attack on sovereignty. Smaller countries and territories like the Serbskaya Republic however are very vulnerable to the manipulations of USAID, Transparency International and the entire group of organizations and NGOs that the West uses to manipulate countries to submit to its hegemony. The most effective weapon against these organizations is transparency and informing the public about their nefarious activities. Stephan Karganovic, the President of the Srebrenica Historical Project, discussed these issues with the Voice of Russia and actually named those responsible in the Serbskaya Republic…”
Saker, Thanks for posting the interview. The more I see the Russian leadership, the more impressed i am by them. He’s thoughtful, serious, and diplomatic. He’s old school. There aren’t many of his type left, and none to my admittedly meager knowledge in the US.
The bad news is that my wife, who is highly intelligent and an incredibly decent and caring person, thinks the Russian government are all Stalinists, and no different from the US. I of course ask her where she gets her deep understanding of Russia from, and the response is that I can’t possibly be unbiased because the government offered me a car and driver last time I was in Moscow. So there.
Not to bore you with family disputes, but just to show how hard it is to change mind sets. She thinks all governments are crooked, which for all I know may be true. She doesn’t understand that they have and represent national interest. She was educated by nuns. Maybe that’s the readon. I dunno.
It will be a small “battalion” if made up of nazis from the Donbass region since it’s doubtful the turd will find many there. This is simply cover lies for nazis imported from the western half of the country being sent to the east to terrorise the people there.
Lavrov pinpoints the “cognitive dissonance” Saker talked about very nicely and with lots of examples. As he rightly remarks: This is not about Ukraine” essentially.
Global Research News and Roots Action claim the TPP meetings are also secretly planning to censor the Internet through forcing ISPs to monitor use, censor content and remove websites.
Can this be verified? It would be a logical next step: propaganda, weapons and the willingness to use them against anyone, anywhere, are the Empire’s only real strengths. Speaking of which, just consider the firepower assembled here:
Lavrov made a strong speech. I felt that he made a a mistake in Geneva by, in effect, letting the West “set the table.” He should,I thought, have insisted upon someone (like an eastern gov pushed out by a coup appointee)be seated as well as the a rep from Kiev. Parity. If the West had said “only under the Russian umbrella”, well maybe. But a flat “No” should have meant no meeting.
Whitney, writing in Counterpunch, had some things right, but his “Putin must bide his time” conclusion was way off base. It was (by my lights) an error not to move on border oblasts in early March when keeping Kiev away could have been virtually bloodless. The longer events fester the more chaotic, and probably bloodier, the situation will become.
Possession was everything, but the chance for a lightning campaign (like the Indian takeover of East Pakistan)is gone. A succession of garrison mutinies might be a game changer, but that’s unlikely without near certainty of Russian backing and it would still leave a fragmented area with near tribal control of various cities and areas.
I can see why Lukashenko is chary of moves that would leave western Ukraine as a new country. But seeking an equitable settlement, given western intransigence and duplicity, seems to me like “sniffing down an empty hole”.
(auto trans) “SDF Sloviansk detained American journalist Simon Ostrovsky, reports “Interfax” referring to the national mayor Vyacheslav Ponomarev.
According to him, the reporter having dual citizenship – U.S. and Israel, the informant was “right sector.” Ponomarev said that Ostrowski kept under normal conditions and are regularly fed…”
The Israeli citizenship means Mossad. He may also be working for the Americans, but Israel is where his loyalty is. His connection to pravi sektor is further evidence of direct Israeli covert involvement in the Ukraine who are working with the worst of the nazis there. Nothing new about zionists and nazis being on the same team. They are natural allies.
(SANA is often blocked, so I’m posting the whole article)
Apr 23, 2014
Damascus, (SANA) Deputy Foreign and Expatriates Minister Dr. Fayssal Mikdad discussed with Head of the Joint Mission of UN and Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) Sigrid Kaag the latest development regarding Syria’s chemical weapons.
Mikdad said that the great accomplishments in terms of upholding Syria’s commitments as for the chemical weapons treaty were the result of the seriousness of the Syrian government and the constructive cooperation and coordination with the UN and the OPCW.
He said that what was accomplished in Syria concerning chemical weapons, especially finishing the work of transporting chemical weapons outside Syria places responsibility on the international community to work diligently as to clear the Middle East of the weapons of mass destruction.
He said that at the time when Syria was fulfilling its obligations towards this issue, there were countries known to all that continued supporting the armed terrorist groups, distorted the truth about cooperation between Syria and the Mission, and are still working on politicizing this file, launching allegations that toxic materials were used in Syria.
Mikdad added that the purpose of these allegations is to cover the facts that are revealing the involvement of these countries, mainly the US and Turkey, in using toxic materials against the Syrian people in Khan al-Assal in Aleppo countryside, the eastern al-Ghouta in Damascus Countryside and other areas.
He stressed that these campaign also aims to overshadow the achievements made by Syria regarding the fulfillment of its obligations needed to complete Syria’s membership in the OPCW.
Al-Mikdad refuted as baseless the allegation made by the US, France and Israel on using toxic materials by the Syrian Arab Army in any of the Syrian territories.
For her part, Kaag expressed satisfaction over the great success and over Syria’s fulfillment of its obligations, adding that the victory was the result of clear Syrian cooperation with the mission, adding that the work was completed on time despite the difficult security conditions.
Earlier on Tuesday, the OPCW said that Syria has handed over 86.5% of its chemical weapons.
There’s a rather horrifying item on a Ukrainian web site, in Russian: http://www.e-news.in.ua/news/8176-obratnyy-otschet-vtorzhenie-na-yugo-vostok-neminuemo.html , dated April 21 (Monday), entitled Обратный отсчёт – вторжение на Юго-Восток неминуемо. “Payback — Invasion of South East Inevitable”. It lays out in some detail the Kiev regime’s 3-step plans for invading the South-East. It’s too long to translate in detail (2 pages 12 point). People that understand Russian should read it themselves. What stood out for me are the following:
The Ukrainian Armed Forces will be used to blockade the “mutinous” provinces. A strict passport regime will control all movements to and from the blockaded strong points.
In the meantime, Americans anti-partisan and counter-terror specialists from Greystone Limited have trained members of “special commands” a 3-week course at the SBU Training Center. The special commands are composed of fighters sent from the the National Guard, and Maidan activists. There are believed to be comparable groups recruited from the Right Sector. These groups are to seize and liquidate the leaders and activists of the mutineers.
The Americans have deployed on the boundaries of Donetsk and Lugansk provinces a radio intercept system permitting any telephone or radio connection using normal security to be read, in order to determine the mutineers’ plans and dispositions.
All mutineer strong points except Donetsk and Lugansk cities will be stormed at the same time, by one of 12 groups, each 400 fighters strong, each with a helicopter group and a detachment of armour transferred from the armed forces. All strong points will be brought under control in the space of several hours. Within two days all captured places will be “cleansed” of mutineers, Russian mercenaries, and FSB agents. Afterward the storm groups will function as internal troops to police the places captured. Then the mutineers in Donetsk and Lugansk will be given an ultimatum to lay down their arms and surrender. It’s assumed that after the attack they will no longer decide to hold the provincial centers, and will hide themselves.
The plans were provided to the web site by “a patriotic officer of the SBU.” The time of the operation was to be set during the visit of Joe Biden to Kiev.
[So there you have it. The mask has dropped. The agreement, like any with the West, was just for a breathing space, to get the necessary forces in place.]
That is horrifying indeed. I pray this is just a rumor, but it sure would explain Lavrov’s ashen face. And again, if you just look at the little “exercise” performed at this year’s Boston Marathon I alluded to above… I shouldn’t be surprised, it’s what we always do, but it never gets any easier to acknowledge or watch in action. Mr. Nora just remarked that they can grab it, and kill people, but never necessarily be able to hold it, or govern — otoh, They. Don’t. Care. Cargill, Monsanto and Chevron *might* care but I suppose they can always take tax write-offs instead.
HI Saker! that was an excellent interview I had some excerpts of it up at my place, my hubby came across at Itar Tass,but, I must add the video to the post, with thanks to you for bringing it to my attention cause it’s worth watching
Mr Lavrov’s interview came at the right moment. It was a veiled warning to the US.
In turn, from military point o view, I hope Russians know army is for defensive purposes (BTW, any attack can be regarded as pre-emptive defensive move), not as a tool for revenge when some of their citizens have been killed.
From this point of view I expect strong assault on Ukrainian territory 2-4 hours before Ukrainian units would start to move from their bases to their designated areas of operation.
There’s no sense running cities’ streets after sotnia thugs and eliminating them one by one.
That scenario presented in the article pointed by Mikhail II 21:55, is not going to happen, for sure.
@Saker- “Bottom line – the freaks in power in Kiev and the USA *know* that the eastern Ukraine is lost for them, and the purpose of the imminent attack is not to “win” against the Russian-speaking rebels or, even less so, to “win” against the Russian military, it is to trigger enough violence to force Russia to intervene. In other words, since the East is lost anyways, it is much better to lose it to the “invading Russian hordes” than to lose it to the local civilian population.”
You’re so blinded by your desire to see Russia defeat the USA somewhere…anywhere…sometime, that you overestimate Russia’s strength and durability by a factor even the Kremlin dare not presume. The only way Russia will take eastern Ukraine is if the Kremlin can guarantee there’ll be no real fight. They want some pliable accomplices who will let Putin bluff his way in without too much Russian blood and treasure in exchange. Has it not occurred to you that the Ukrainians might hate Russia enough to violently resist occupation once Putin backs up his threats with action and moves to support his paid mafia in the south and east of Ukraine? There are already rumblings in Crimea as the confused citizens begin to wake up to the reality that Russia isn’t rich enough to quadruple their pensions like they naively believed, and that the ruble is worth even less than the hryvnia/ UAH. Putins blitz in Georgia in 2008 is about all the Russian military is capable of because unlike you, they dread the nightmarish vision of their conscript army crumbling in the face of 4th generation guerrilla warfare. The only sustained campaigns of note undertaken by the vaunted “green men”, besides scaring toothless old civilians into submission, were little Chechnya and Afghanistan. Both exposed the feet of Clay of Russia’s “mighty” military machine. It’s easy to intimidate weaker neighbors with 3day shock campaigns, but Russia’s military dreads the guerrilla. America is bleeding your economy even now, when all we’ve heard are threats and feints from Putin, plus a couple of unfortunate drunks killed here and there, just imagine the Russian military in a quagmire in Ukraine, with every neighbor with a score to settle funding a relentless terror war from all directions, and color revolution in Moscow – get the picture Saker? The Kremlin’s hesitation to advance into Ukraine despite the obvious baiting of the Americans is sufficient proof of the cold fear the Kremlin oligarchs feel despite their outward show of bravado and tough talk. So far that’s all there’s been, talk… Crimea was a theft engineered with the complicity of the pro Russian political class without any real resistance. You might be one of the few sycophants deluded enough to not see the yawning abyss awaiting Russia in Ukraine. I for one, can’t wait to see these tough guys get tested and proven- I was a grunt in Iraq, Afghanistan, and everywhere in between so statistics on paper mean little to me, I’ll consent to Russian regional supremacy when they survive a real bloodletting.
This would appear to be a clear warning to the Ukraine military.
It will undoubtedly have the desired effect if the number of defections/desertions that occurred last week is any indication of the actual thinking of the Ukraine military.
Presumably those who deserted last week had the very real prospect of war crimes at the fore front of their minds.
The world is turning and the US will eventually be unseated – hopefully the international community will call upon those US officials to account for their crimes against humanity over the past decades.
Wow, the ‘grunt’ from failed Iraq and Afghanistan invasions by the US really underestimates the Russian people and their resolve.
The comments display the failure to critically analyse information and events as they unfold. Somewhat typically for the now under-educated and misinformed US public of today.
It is also some real-time evidence of the “invincibility complex” the misinformed US public are beholden to at this point in time.
The ‘grunt’ should understand that the US empire is now is currently experiencing catastrophic failure in its economy and soon thereafter everything else.
They are however misconceptions commonly held not only in the populace, but in the most senior levels of the administration that exists only for the benefit of the ultra wealth elite, for who the ‘grunt’ put himself in harms way.
May the ‘grunt’ never have the misfortune to face a hostile Russian military, for they are not Iraq or Afghanistani civilians.
The extent to which the US people have been brainwashed in absoutely staggering…
Anonymous 02:10 “The extent to which the US people have been brainwashed is absoutely staggering…”
Yes. It’s actually rather comical, close to Shakespearean-level buffoonery, or it would be if so many lives didn’t hang in the balance. But these poor deluded souls — armchair warriors, enlistees who saw and did awful stuff and desperately need to believe there was a good reason for it all, those who had their paltry brains sucked right out of their heads by hate-filled talk-radio jocks, retirees who just keep clinging to a Morning In America, or even earlier era, that never happened quite the way they “remember” it, and the millions more on both sides of the left-right divide who just aren’t interested in questioning anything they’re so comfortable being spoon-fed — these people still make up most of America. And they’re not just dupes, they’re willing dupes. How likely is it, when they’re finally jolted out of their complacency, that they’ll either see things clearly or act appropriately, whatever that may end up being?
He packed a lot of information into the 1/2 hour interview. I think the Russians are now “gloves off”. Best way to deal with the psycopaths of the NWO/USG/EU/NATO.It was interesting to hear him reveal more about Iran talks – I have heard of this behaviour from the USG b4 in all their “diplomatic” negotiations.
Rgds,
Veritas
p.s. It seems the reaction to the interview is full on attacks now in the South-East :(…..
Croatia and Russia
STEPHEN COHEN: Well, I think you’ve emphasized the absolute flaw in at least the American—because I don’t follow the European press that closely—the American media and political narrative. As a historian, I would say that this conflict began 300 years ago, but we can’t do that. As a contemporary observer, it certainly began in November 2013 when the European Union issued an ultimatum, really, to the then-president, elected president, of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych, that “Sign an agreement with us, but you can’t have one with Russia, too.” In my mind, that precipitated this crisis, because why give a country that has been profoundly divided for centuries, and certainly in recent decades, an ultimatum—an elected president: “Choose, and divide your country further”? So when we say today Putin initiated this chaos, this danger of war, this confrontation, the answer is, no, that narrative is wrong from the beginning. It was triggered by the European Union’s unwise ultimatum.
Now flash forward to just one month ago, about the time I was with you before. Remember that the European foreign ministers—three of them, I think—went to Kiev and negotiated with Yanukovych, who was still the president, an agreement. Now, the Russians were present at the negotiation, but they didn’t sign it. But they signed off on it. They said, “OK.” What did that agreement call for? Yanukovych would remain president until December—not May, when elections are now scheduled, but December of this year. Then there would be a presidential election. He could run in them, or not. Meanwhile, there would be a kind of government of national accord trying to pull the government together. And, importantly, Russia would chip in, in trying to save the Ukrainian economy. But there would also be parliamentary elections. That made a lot of sense. And it lasted six hours.
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/4/17/we_are_not_beginning_a_new
Crazy Ivan says…
I’ll be short.
Firstly Mr Putin said – “if they only try to shoot women and children!”.
Then, Messrs. Lavrov and Putin decidedly and ad nauseam repeated RF was not going to enter/invade Ukraine (pay attention to diplomatic language).
Now, Mr. Lavrov pointed with His finger the culprits of Ukrainian mess (US loons) and conformed Russia will eventually move into Ukraine (pay attention to diplomatic language) what means in the light of all events it will happen sooner then later (not “it would”).
You (readers) and me are impervious to the Western propaganda so what was the purpose of all the Russian games with the West if they knew very well the West would do anything to implode/explode Ukrainian crucible?
Sigh.
The time is right, having the Ukrainian thugs concentrated in several camps (I’m not talking about Ukrainian Army, they will not fight their brothers).
But the move must be quick in two directions Kiev-Odessa and Charkov-Crimea.
Hey Saker, is it possible this was the us/eu plan all along, to split ukraine and force the russians to enter in the east of the country?!
Great interview. I noticed that Lavrov confirmed that the zionazis were about to do to Crimea what they did to Kiev. The USN construction contracts for Crimea show that Sevastopol was intended to be a USN base eventually, so their hysterical reaction to seeing those plans scuppered by the “polite armed men in green” is indicative how much they had wanted Sevastopol.
Another thing is Lavrov stressed how the Americans immediately sabotaged agreements after signing them. As Lavrov said, they “pocket their gains, and then do not follow through with what they had agreed to do” (paraphrase). They falsely accuse the other side of practices they themselves were engaging in, and they beginning adding new demands, falsely claiming the agreement was about those, too.
This is exactly how Israel negotiates and applies agreements they agree to. The USA has always been dishonest about applying agreements it makes, but with the Israeli influence now securely emplaced in the American establishment, one can see the USA slowly becoming fully israelisized, taking on the “israeli personality”, if you will, in how it conducts all its affairs.
вот так
I am struck by the look on Lavrov’s face, and somehow reminded of a couple hundred years of Indian chiefs who likewise saw things clearly and spoke truth to power while we lied, cheated, killed, blamed, broke our word and… “won” damned near the entire continent.
Meanwhile, in other news, “The far-right extremist Right Sector group has relocated its HQ from Kiev to the southeastern city Dnepropetrovsk, said it’s nationalist leader Dmitry Yarosh who has been put on the international wanted list by Russia. According to him, it’s easier to monitor the situation in eastern Ukraine from Dnepropetrovsk.
Yarosh also denies using tycoon’s funding “in politics.” However “when there is ongoing war we are not against them funding the army,” he noted.”
http://rt.com/news/kiev-clashes-rioters-police-571/
Somewhat OT:
US regime change attempt underway in Republika Srpska – Stephan Karganovic
http://voiceofrussia.com/2014_04_23/US-regime-change-attempt-underway-in-Republika-Srpska-Stephan-Karganovic-6185/
“The practice of regime change through color revolutions and destabilization practiced by the US can currently being seen in countries all over the world including Ukraine, Venezuela and the Serbskaya Republic. Russia has faced the entire US color revolution architecture and thanks to its strong security services was able to successfully fend off this form of attack on sovereignty. Smaller countries and territories like the Serbskaya Republic however are very vulnerable to the manipulations of USAID, Transparency International and the entire group of organizations and NGOs that the West uses to manipulate countries to submit to its hegemony. The most effective weapon against these organizations is transparency and informing the public about their nefarious activities. Stephan Karganovic, the President of the Srebrenica Historical Project, discussed these issues with the Voice of Russia and actually named those responsible in the Serbskaya Republic…”
вот так
Saker, Thanks for posting the interview. The more I see the Russian leadership, the more impressed i am by them. He’s thoughtful, serious, and diplomatic. He’s old school. There aren’t many of his type left, and none to my admittedly meager knowledge in the US.
The bad news is that my wife, who is highly intelligent and an incredibly decent and caring person, thinks the Russian government are all Stalinists, and no different from the US. I of course ask her where she gets her deep understanding of Russia from, and the response is that I can’t possibly be unbiased because the government offered me a car and driver last time I was in Moscow. So there.
Not to bore you with family disputes, but just to show how hard it is to change mind sets. She thinks all governments are crooked, which for all I know may be true. She doesn’t understand that they have and represent national interest. She was educated by nuns. Maybe that’s the readon. I dunno.
Right Sector’s “Donbass” battalion to assist crackdown on federalists in eastern Ukraine
http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_04_23/Right-Sectors-Donbass-battalion-to-assist-crackdown-on-federalists-in-eastern-Ukraine-4679/
It will be a small “battalion” if made up of nazis from the Donbass region since it’s doubtful the turd will find many there. This is simply cover lies for nazis imported from the western half of the country being sent to the east to terrorise the people there.
Lavrov pinpoints the “cognitive dissonance” Saker talked about very nicely and with lots of examples. As he rightly remarks: This is not about Ukraine” essentially.
The zionazis are not going to like this:
Russia says Visa, Mastercard should pay ‘security fees’ for possible disruptions
http://rt.com/business/154188-russia-payment-system-insurance/
Personally, I think Visa & Mastercard should also be fined the amount their disruption cost people and businesses.
Global Research News and Roots Action claim the TPP meetings are also secretly planning to censor the Internet through forcing ISPs to monitor use, censor content and remove websites.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/secret-plan-to-advance-global-internet-censorship-isps-to-act-as-internet-police/5378905
Can this be verified? It would be a logical next step: propaganda, weapons and the willingness to use them against anyone, anywhere, are the Empire’s only real strengths. Speaking of which, just consider the firepower assembled here:
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/04/23/pers-a23.html
And imagine yourself in opposition.
Lavrov made a strong speech. I felt that he made a a mistake in Geneva by, in effect, letting the West “set the table.” He should,I thought, have insisted upon someone (like an eastern gov pushed out by a coup appointee)be seated as well as the a rep from Kiev. Parity. If the West had said “only under the Russian umbrella”, well maybe. But a flat “No” should have meant no meeting.
Whitney, writing in Counterpunch, had some things right, but his “Putin must bide his time” conclusion was way off base. It was (by my lights) an error not to move on border oblasts in early March when keeping Kiev away could have been virtually bloodless. The longer events fester the more chaotic, and probably bloodier, the situation will become.
Possession was everything, but the chance for a lightning campaign (like the Indian takeover of East Pakistan)is gone. A succession of garrison mutinies might be a game changer, but that’s unlikely without near certainty of Russian backing and it would still leave a fragmented area with near tribal control of various cities and areas.
I can see why Lukashenko is chary of moves that would leave western Ukraine as a new country. But seeking an equitable settlement, given western intransigence and duplicity, seems to me like “sniffing down an empty hole”.
Mossad spy caught in Sloviansk.
Задержанный в Славянске журналист из США оказался информатором радикалов (Detained journalist Slovyansk U.S. turned informant radicals)
http://www.km.ru/world/2014/04/23/protivostoyanie-na-ukraine-2013-14/738224-zaderzhannyi-v-slavyanske-zhurnalist-iz-s
(auto trans) “SDF Sloviansk detained American journalist Simon Ostrovsky, reports “Interfax” referring to the national mayor Vyacheslav Ponomarev.
According to him, the reporter having dual citizenship – U.S. and Israel, the informant was “right sector.” Ponomarev said that Ostrowski kept under normal conditions and are regularly fed…”
The Israeli citizenship means Mossad. He may also be working for the Americans, but Israel is where his loyalty is. His connection to pravi sektor is further evidence of direct Israeli covert involvement in the Ukraine who are working with the worst of the nazis there. Nothing new about zionists and nazis being on the same team. They are natural allies.
Pinpointing (diplomatically put) “cognitive dissonance” in Western Media:
Robert Parry: America’s Staggering Hypocrisy
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/03/04/americas-staggering-hypocrisy/
Mikdad: Int’l community should shoulder responsibilities regarding clearing region of WMDs
http://sana.sy/eng/21/2014/04/23/540613.htm
(SANA is often blocked, so I’m posting the whole article)
Apr 23, 2014
Damascus, (SANA) Deputy Foreign and Expatriates Minister Dr. Fayssal Mikdad discussed with Head of the Joint Mission of UN and Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) Sigrid Kaag the latest development regarding Syria’s chemical weapons.
Mikdad said that the great accomplishments in terms of upholding Syria’s commitments as for the chemical weapons treaty were the result of the seriousness of the Syrian government and the constructive cooperation and coordination with the UN and the OPCW.
He said that what was accomplished in Syria concerning chemical weapons, especially finishing the work of transporting chemical weapons outside Syria places responsibility on the international community to work diligently as to clear the Middle East of the weapons of mass destruction.
He said that at the time when Syria was fulfilling its obligations towards this issue, there were countries known to all that continued supporting the armed terrorist groups, distorted the truth about cooperation between Syria and the Mission, and are still working on politicizing this file, launching allegations that toxic materials were used in Syria.
Mikdad added that the purpose of these allegations is to cover the facts that are revealing the involvement of these countries, mainly the US and Turkey, in using toxic materials against the Syrian people in Khan al-Assal in Aleppo countryside, the eastern al-Ghouta in Damascus Countryside and other areas.
He stressed that these campaign also aims to overshadow the achievements made by Syria regarding the fulfillment of its obligations needed to complete Syria’s membership in the OPCW.
Al-Mikdad refuted as baseless the allegation made by the US, France and Israel on using toxic materials by the Syrian Arab Army in any of the Syrian territories.
For her part, Kaag expressed satisfaction over the great success and over Syria’s fulfillment of its obligations, adding that the victory was the result of clear Syrian cooperation with the mission, adding that the work was completed on time despite the difficult security conditions.
Earlier on Tuesday, the OPCW said that Syria has handed over 86.5% of its chemical weapons.
M. Nassr/ H. Sabbagh
It gets even more interesting as miners go out on strike in Lugansk region:
http://www.marxist.com/ukraine-lugansk-strike.htm
Tony Blair calls on Western powers to ‘co-operate’ with Russia to fight radical Islam despite Ukraine crisis
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/tony-blair-calls-on-western-powers-to-cooperate-with-russia-to-fight-radical-islam-despite-ukraine-crisis-9277152.html
There’s a rather horrifying item on a Ukrainian web site, in Russian: http://www.e-news.in.ua/news/8176-obratnyy-otschet-vtorzhenie-na-yugo-vostok-neminuemo.html , dated April 21 (Monday), entitled Обратный отсчёт – вторжение на Юго-Восток неминуемо. “Payback — Invasion of South East Inevitable”. It lays out in some detail the Kiev regime’s 3-step plans for invading the South-East. It’s too long to translate in detail (2 pages 12 point). People that understand Russian should read it themselves. What stood out for me are the following:
The Ukrainian Armed Forces will be used to blockade the “mutinous” provinces. A strict passport regime will control all movements to and from the blockaded strong points.
In the meantime, Americans anti-partisan and counter-terror specialists from Greystone Limited have trained members of “special commands” a 3-week course at the SBU Training Center. The special commands are composed of fighters sent from the the National Guard, and Maidan activists. There are believed to be comparable groups recruited from the Right Sector. These groups are to seize and liquidate the leaders and activists of the mutineers.
The Americans have deployed on the boundaries of Donetsk and Lugansk provinces a radio intercept system permitting any telephone or radio connection using normal security to be read, in order to determine the mutineers’ plans and dispositions.
All mutineer strong points except Donetsk and Lugansk cities will be stormed at the same time, by one of 12 groups, each 400 fighters strong, each with a helicopter group and a detachment of armour transferred from the armed forces. All strong points will be brought under control in the space of several hours. Within two days all captured places will be “cleansed” of mutineers, Russian mercenaries, and FSB agents. Afterward the storm groups will function as internal troops to police the places captured. Then the mutineers in Donetsk and Lugansk will be given an ultimatum to lay down their arms and surrender. It’s assumed that after the attack they will no longer decide to hold the provincial centers, and will hide themselves.
The plans were provided to the web site by “a patriotic officer of the SBU.” The time of the operation was to be set during the visit of Joe Biden to Kiev.
[So there you have it. The mask has dropped. The agreement, like any with the West, was just for a breathing space, to get the necessary forces in place.]
NYT Retracts Russian-Photo Scoop
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/04/23/nyt-retracts-russian-photo-scoop/
Mikhail II 21:55,
That is horrifying indeed. I pray this is just a rumor, but it sure would explain Lavrov’s ashen face. And again, if you just look at the little “exercise” performed at this year’s Boston Marathon I alluded to above… I shouldn’t be surprised, it’s what we always do, but it never gets any easier to acknowledge or watch in action. Mr. Nora just remarked that they can grab it, and kill people, but never necessarily be able to hold it, or govern — otoh, They. Don’t. Care. Cargill, Monsanto and Chevron *might* care but I suppose they can always take tax write-offs instead.
Why is it, that every time a US official makes a trip to Kiev, the regime launches another assault?
Last week it was the CIA director, now it’s Biden.
http://www.e-news.in.ua/in-ukraine/8492-pravitelstvennye-voyska-na-vostoke-ukrainy-v-lyuboy-moment-mogut-pereyti-v-nastuplenie-video.html
HI Saker!
that was an excellent interview
I had some excerpts of it up at my place, my hubby came across at Itar Tass,but, I must add the video to the post, with thanks to you for bringing it to my attention
cause it’s worth watching
Crazy Ivan says…
@ Nora 23 April, 2014 22:26
Be at peace.
Mr Lavrov’s interview came at the right moment. It was a veiled warning to the US.
In turn, from military point o view, I hope Russians know army is for defensive purposes (BTW, any attack can be regarded as pre-emptive defensive move), not as a tool for revenge when some of their citizens have been killed.
From this point of view I expect strong assault on Ukrainian territory 2-4 hours before Ukrainian units would start to move from their bases to their designated areas of operation.
There’s no sense running cities’ streets after sotnia thugs and eliminating them one by one.
That scenario presented in the article pointed by Mikhail II 21:55, is not going to happen, for sure.
ICH has a full transcript of the interview here –
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article38317.htm
@Saker- “Bottom line – the freaks in power in Kiev and the USA *know* that the eastern Ukraine is lost for them, and the purpose of the imminent attack is not to “win” against the Russian-speaking rebels or, even less so, to “win” against the Russian military, it is to trigger enough violence to force Russia to intervene. In other words, since the East is lost anyways, it is much better to lose it to the “invading Russian hordes” than to lose it to the local civilian population.”
You’re so blinded by your desire to see Russia defeat the USA somewhere…anywhere…sometime, that you overestimate Russia’s strength and durability by a factor even the Kremlin dare not presume. The only way Russia will take eastern Ukraine is if the Kremlin can guarantee there’ll be no real fight. They want some pliable accomplices who will let Putin bluff his way in without too much Russian blood and treasure in exchange. Has it not occurred to you that the Ukrainians might hate Russia enough to violently resist occupation once Putin backs up his threats with action and moves to support his paid mafia in the south and east of Ukraine? There are already rumblings in Crimea as the confused citizens begin to wake up to the reality that Russia isn’t rich enough to quadruple their pensions like they naively believed, and that the ruble is worth even less than the hryvnia/ UAH. Putins blitz in Georgia in 2008 is about all the Russian military is capable of because unlike you, they dread the nightmarish vision of their conscript army crumbling in the face of 4th generation guerrilla warfare. The only sustained campaigns of note undertaken by the vaunted “green men”, besides scaring toothless old civilians into submission, were little Chechnya and Afghanistan. Both exposed the feet of Clay of Russia’s “mighty” military machine. It’s easy to intimidate weaker neighbors with 3day shock campaigns, but Russia’s military dreads the guerrilla. America is bleeding your economy even now, when all we’ve heard are threats and feints from Putin, plus a couple of unfortunate drunks killed here and there, just imagine the Russian military in a quagmire in Ukraine, with every neighbor with a score to settle funding a relentless terror war from all directions, and color revolution in Moscow – get the picture Saker? The Kremlin’s hesitation to advance into Ukraine despite the obvious baiting of the Americans is sufficient proof of the cold fear the Kremlin oligarchs feel despite their outward show of bravado and tough talk. So far that’s all there’s been, talk… Crimea was a theft engineered with the complicity of the pro Russian political class without any real resistance. You might be one of the few sycophants deluded enough to not see the yawning abyss awaiting Russia in Ukraine. I for one, can’t wait to see these tough guys get tested and proven- I was a grunt in Iraq, Afghanistan, and everywhere in between so statistics on paper mean little to me, I’ll consent to Russian regional supremacy when they survive a real bloodletting.
This would appear to be a clear warning to the Ukraine military.
It will undoubtedly have the desired effect if the number of defections/desertions that occurred last week is any indication of the actual thinking of the Ukraine military.
Presumably those who deserted last week had the very real prospect of war crimes at the fore front of their minds.
The world is turning and the US will eventually be unseated – hopefully the international community will call upon those US officials to account for their crimes against humanity over the past decades.
@24 April, 2014 01:11
Wow, the ‘grunt’ from failed Iraq and Afghanistan invasions by the US really underestimates the Russian people and their resolve.
The comments display the failure to critically analyse information and events as they unfold. Somewhat typically for the now under-educated and misinformed US public of today.
It is also some real-time evidence of the “invincibility complex” the misinformed US public are beholden to at this point in time.
The ‘grunt’ should understand that the US empire is now is currently experiencing catastrophic failure in its economy and soon thereafter everything else.
They are however misconceptions commonly held not only in the populace, but in the most senior levels of the administration that exists only for the benefit of the ultra wealth elite, for who the ‘grunt’ put himself in harms way.
May the ‘grunt’ never have the misfortune to face a hostile Russian military, for they are not Iraq or Afghanistani civilians.
The extent to which the US people have been brainwashed in absoutely staggering…
Anonymous 02:10 “The extent to which the US people have been brainwashed is absoutely staggering…”
Yes. It’s actually rather comical, close to Shakespearean-level buffoonery, or it would be if so many lives didn’t hang in the balance. But these poor deluded souls — armchair warriors, enlistees who saw and did awful stuff and desperately need to believe there was a good reason for it all, those who had their paltry brains sucked right out of their heads by hate-filled talk-radio jocks, retirees who just keep clinging to a Morning In America, or even earlier era, that never happened quite the way they “remember” it, and the millions more on both sides of the left-right divide who just aren’t interested in questioning anything they’re so comfortable being spoon-fed — these people still make up most of America. And they’re not just dupes, they’re willing dupes. How likely is it, when they’re finally jolted out of their complacency, that they’ll either see things clearly or act appropriately, whatever that may end up being?
Dear The Saker,
He packed a lot of information into the 1/2 hour interview. I think the Russians are now “gloves off”. Best way to deal with the psycopaths of the NWO/USG/EU/NATO.It was interesting to hear him reveal more about Iran talks – I have heard of this behaviour from the USG b4 in all their “diplomatic” negotiations.
Rgds,
Veritas
p.s. It seems the reaction to the interview is full on attacks now in the South-East :(…..
Thank you Mikhail II for your post of Ukrainian web site, in Russian: http://www.e-news.in.ua/news/8176-obratnyy-otschet-vtorzhenie-na-yugo-vostok-neminuemo.html.
It seems it is all happening today from what I can see on RT…..:(