ISTANBUL: Russia-Ukraine talks outcome
Russia has agreed to meet Kiev half-way, agreeing a Putin-Zelensky meeting could be held if a finalized peace treaty pre-approved by foreign ministers from both nations is presented simultaneously, Vladimir Medinsky said.
The official described the Istanbul meeting as “constructive” and said his delegation had received a clearly outlined position on what it sought to achieve.
Russia’s MoD also announced it was drastically reducing its military op in parts of Ukraine, including near the capital, Kiev. The ministry cited “the talks moving into the practical dimension,” as the reason for the change.
Russia’s top negotiator Vladimir Medinsky has disclosed the key points of Istanbul talks:
▪️Ukraine is ready to become a neutral state, unable to own nuclear weapons, with internationally guaranteed independence
▪️Guarantees will not be extended to Donbass region and Russia owned Crimean Peninsula – which would make Kiev formally abandon idea to annex them militarily
▪️Ukraine would be unable to have any military presence – including NATO and Russian forces
▪️Russia does not oppose Ukraine potentially joining the European Union
▪️Kiev is requesting for final treaty to be formalised by Russian and Ukrainian heads of states
Follow the presser here: https://t.me/rtnews/22903
It seems the psyop started with 4 anonymous sources to the Financial Times, cue aide Medinsky & Deputy Minister Fomin, is this an Atlanticist coup forming? Lavrov, Shoigu, ready to arms!!
Frankly, this feels like capitulation to USA/West by Putin and team. Does Putin even think that Ukraine’s ‘guarantees’ or Western ‘promises’ , written in ink, are believable? Seriously?
If that’s all this war was for, then the loss of lives of many young Russians in the army were in vain. The economic repercussions of Western sanctions on Russia would not be worth it. Russia appears to be weak and actually lost this conflict, no matter how hard Putin or Lavrov spin the narrative. Looks like Russian military IS weak in conventional warfare and Western ‘propaganda’ of massive Russian casualties and resilient Ukraine army IS true? Multipolar world order died even at its embryonic form -which country would even dare challenge USA/Washington hegemony? For some scrap paper of a peace treaty, Russia was willing to undergo such humiliation, almost a pariah state .
I now wonder if Putin miscalculated when he started this war? He probably miscalculated the support for Russia in east Ukraine. Miscalculated Western and Ukrainian army resolve. The idea of a ‘Humane war’ is also a tremendous weakness. He miscalculated internal rebellion or collusion with the West by Atlanticist elites within his own Government? Or perhaps Putin himself is a crypto Atlanticist and faux nationalist, he could’t accept being thrown out by his Western ‘partners’? Or he miscalculated the support he would get from ‘more than allies’ China? I myself am ethnic Chinese but China seems to be lacklustre in the support for
Russia in this war with its ‘strategic neutrality’. Perhaps China preferred a less confrontational response to the West rather than an outright war, perhaps China felt Putin was reckless? Perhaps China felt even Russia + China are currently not that strong nor have enough cohesion and trust to form a formal alliance to challenge and have a true all out hybrid war with the West -that the timing was incorrect and Putin was too impatient?
It just looks bad and weak on Putin/Russia’s part. The liberals in Russia will see this as a weak Putin and might foment regime change. Nationalists would likely be disappointed with a weak Putin and think he betrayed their cause. They too might want regime change. This has a potential to destabilize Russian internal politics -to the glee of Biden and the West.
To me, this is a big letdown by Putin. He shouldn’t start a war to try to make a deal with a proxy when the real masters are not part of the deal and can never be trusted. He should start a war to win that war, knowing the cost of losing = destabilization of Russia +regime change. I supported Russia and this is really disappointing. What was Putin thinking?
Just my opinion.
You have listed my thoughts verbatim
I really can not comprehend anything that came out of this sham of a peace negotiating meeting
Even if Russia wanted to reduce some of the Army from the Kyiv oblast, there was no need of broadcasting that.
It is taken as a sign of weaknesss
The West is now shouting for the last 2 weeks that the Russian Army is this paper tiger, and whatever respect the World may have for the second strongest army in the World is now in tatters.
If they can not defeat a puppet like Zelensky, imagine how they can take on the might of the USA and its European puppets.
If Russia agree to anything with this puppet regime, it will really justify this statement from USA that Russia is just a big Gas station with nukes
On the other hand the EU has completely refused to pay for gas in Rubles, and I am getting a feeling that Russia will not switch off the tap and will make a compromise.
The fact that Russia would be able to turn Lviv into a Grozny 2.0 at any time they want to, makes me disagree with you.
I think this proposed deal is exactly what the Russian sides wanted in the first place which is also precisely what Washington does not want. With a settlement the orgy of hatred generated by the Imperial propaganda organs will deflate just as it did with Russiagate. Any agreement along these lines puts a stop to Washington’s attempt to strangle Europe and Russia both.
As long as there is some level of careful monitoring of NATO attempting to reconstruct the Ukrainian armed forces then those of us who are against the Empire are in a good place and we can return to overthrowing the neocons from government and media.
When Russians decided to go in this action they had to be aware that only outcome must be CAPITULATION of Banderites.
Everything else would be defeat of Russia.
But victory cannot be achieved with 150 000 soldiers. Ukraine is way too huge country.
They have to send much more armies to quickly finish this.
Because last two weeks russian advancing has became too slow
Kadyrov was right saying that negotiations were not needed. But I understand that some political theatre must be.
CAPITULATION ONLY.
Everything else would be political disaster for Putin, Shoigu and Russia.
Mykolaev and Odessa must be taken without mercy.
@ J L Borges
Before that is Dnipro, smacked at the center of Ukraine, a pivotal point to go West, North, or South. Just take a look at the map.
Lone Wolf
Everything east of the 28th meridian has to be taken. Anything else would be a Russian defeat. Then may Poland or whoever take the rest. The continued existence of the state “Ukraine” would be a Russian defeat.
Another question is why Putin would require payments for gas in Rubel if they are about to sign an agreement which would lead to an end of the sanctions anyway. All this looks quite fishy to me. Did the Turks threaten to open a second front in Aserbaidschan? Or are the Russians just pretending to be ready to sign in order to make it difficult to sell a false flag attack? I am a bit at a loss.
Sanctions will not end. The War Party wants Iron Curtain 2.0
That’s the point, if EU refuses to pay rubles for gas, they’ll want a quick end to the conflict to not suffer economically from being cut off gas. No more meddling in the diplomatic talks.
We need to keep our pants on, we don’t know the details at this time. I doubt seriously that the Russians have dropped the need for denazification, or that they have capitulated on Ukraine being used as an instrument of the West to harm Russia. Let’s wait until we have some reliable information.
In the bigger picture, All the major centers of power know that the war, however big or small or widespread, will yield a different world after it. This of course isn’t just about Ukraine, but the future of Russia, Europe, USA, China, West Asia, among others as centers of power in the future. They are positioning themselves to end up in a favorable position after* the war/wars have ended.
I’m not a political expert, but from my perspective:
– Russia needs above all to form the Union State, and do a good job on it. This means integrate all the post-soviet republics except the B3, and achieve both a good defensive military footing and good relations with neighbors this time around. This needs to be done before Putin leaves office. In my opinion, this is why the anglos are pouncing…they deeply fear this prospect.
– Europe wants to become its own superpower, no longer a puppet of the USA & UK. For this it needs energy supplies and other imports, and it needs a market to export to. Europe wants an alternative to America controlling its ability to export, import, and act with strategic autonomy. Of course by “Europe” I mainly mean Germany and France, but hey.
– China wants free of the island chains into the deep blue sea. It wants Taiwan, it wants to boot USA out of the Asia Pacific, it wants to retain good relations with as many countries as possible while achieving the rest. It wants import security and export security, and strategic autonomy as well.
– America wants to deny Russia/Union State, Europe, China, and the RoW of the ability to import, export, and act geopolitically as they see fit. And it wants to rob their wealth on the long term and sustain this status quo indefinitely.
The resolution for the after-war peace is written between the lines, the trouble is getting from the old normal to the one everyone (except the anglo countries) wants. Obviously the anglos aren’t going to let it happen without a fight. But the anglos aren’t militarily dominant enough to keep a lid on all the pots boiling over at once.
Something* has to give and we as civilian observers can’t see the domains where the action is happening. Especially in anything close to real time. Maybe* years after the fact will we have a decent understanding of what is happening right now, in all its complexity.
My major concern is that the anglos will play a Sampson option.
If the USA stages a false flag chem/bio attack by Russia against Ukraine, and then the USA’s response is to assassinate Putin, or something of similar significance….maybe they start sinking Russian ships in the North Atlantic, where they need a secure route to Europe? These people are crazy, powerful and have a lot to loose.
They know Putin can and will destroy their empire, rebuild the one he is from that their empire destroyed, and have them tried in The Hague for their crimes against humanity.
I pray for Putin and the people who’s lives are taken or destroyed by the war. I pray the outcome of all this is a more peaceful, prosperous, fair world.
The “New York Times” is spinning Russia’s decision to reduce attacks in the northern part of Ukraine as a sign of flagging military strength. It’s more likely a tactical decision that allows for deploying forces elsewhere. The Western media want the world to believe that anything short of complete subjugation of all of Ukraine will represent a failure for Russia.
What a nutty bunch of overreaction we see here.
The Russian negotiators say that for the first time, the Ukraine has given them something that they can work with. No more, and no less. Nothing else is important.
Now, let us see who is caving.
The Ukraine and its negotiators have no agency. We all know that they are fingerpuppets for Washington. Yet, we see that they handed over a document that could go toward a peace treaty. (The details are for major future work).
The two areas where Russia said they will reduce their military operations … Lets go and see what Shoigu said just a few hours ago:
💬 “In general, the main objectives of the first phase of the operation have been achieved. The combat capabilities of the Ukrainian Armed Forces have been significantly reduced, which allows us to focus our main attention and main efforts on achieving the main goal – the liberation of Donbass.”
Shoigu and his troops will decimate or significantly reduce the Ukrainian nazis. (Denazification)
Who is caving? Who do the Ukrainian negotiators speak for?
Sanctions, you’ve heard Lavrov and others .. sanctions were coming no matter if the Russians danced twenty jigs. The only thing that could have avoided sanctions was Russia caving to the west and becoming a lapdog.
I ask you again, who is caving? Who do the Ukrainian negotiators speak for?
Besides cleanup and mopup, Russia has won this war.
Exactly. A lot of posters here still assume Ukrainian negotiators have any agency. They should know better at this point.
Spot on, Amarynth.
César, Júlio
Agree.
Attending negotiations is good PR.
Russia will never change their aim to de-militarize and de-nazify Ukraine.
Never underestimate Putin and his team. They will go all the way, as planned.
Totaly agree with you Amarynth. I’m amazed by all these idiots and bloody morons
We’ll see. However the reaction in the Russian websites I monitor is largely negative. Are they idiots and morons too? I also note that whoever runs “Southfront” has referred to the results of the talks as “alarming”.
spot on.
Neither side is sincere.. but all’s fair in love and war.
For Russians, it buys time while nazis continue to be ground into pieces in Novorossiya. It creates division among AZE – the saner faction will fight the false-flag faction, thinking Russians may cave and should be given time, etc.. It changes media narrative to “Russians yield to Peace” rather than Russians bombing maternity hospitals, kindergartens, beauty parlors and Kalashnikov-wielding sexy babushkas.
Russian overall demands are not changed one iota – it is surrender or be destroyed and dismembered.
This is just a shallow agreement to discuss the inflexible Russian requirements. It buys valuable time for Operation Z.
And the response to “something they can work with” presented by people who have after all broken agreements before is Russian troops moving away almost immediately from Kiev, allowing the Zelensky government to claim victory. This troop movement is claimed both by the US and by the Ukrainians. I don’t like to believe them and generally have not during this thing.
The immediate response I am noting from Russians on the Web is “Minsk III”. And that might be optimistic. Minsk I and II went nowhere. At best I think Russia might have to do this again in five or ten years and go in even harder. At worst it as well make Zelensky the president of Russia. Or someone similar.
I thought the Ukrainians killing one of their own negotiators was a sign of weakness. After watching Medinsky in action, I am not so sure.
Amarynth, couldn’t agree more. I’m aghast at the conclusions the commenters are jumping to and the disparaging remarks relating to Putin/Russia about coming to an agreement. I’m actually really optimistic about this, I have confidence Russia will attain it’s objectives. I have great admiration for how Russia is handling this, militarily and diplomatically!!
Count me in to your opinion!
I am baffled by the hysterical reactions I see here before reading any official info and then – reading between the lines. Even by the Saker himself.
“Besides cleanup and mopup, Russia has won this war.”
Bullsh*t. Not everything can be a western PSYOP, wake up.
Russia has not won, it caved. What’s worse, it caved half-way to victory.
If we are going to be BS’ing around, I will for sure claim that you are the bigger BS’er :-)
Be patient grasshopper. You ‘aint seen nothing yet.
Just a hunch, but if the change in commentary (for the worse) over at Zerohedge since the operations began in Ukraine last month are anything to go by, it follows that they would be also instructed to swarm here when articles/topics such as these arise. Demoralization campaign.
Thank-you for that!
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast
·
4m
I don’t know how serious I should take negotiations between an alcoholic from the Russian Ministry of Culture and a Ukrainian who looks like a hobo.
Well, that is who the respective sides have put up to “negotiate”. Irrespective of their personal characters, it is necessary to look at the results – the reaction of the Russians to the first Ukrainian proposals that are not obvious BS or merely about humanitarian corridors is to move troops away from Kiev. Quite a major step, even if Medinsky has just stressed that it is not a complete cease-fire.
Western mainstream media outlets habitually refer to Ukrainian nazis in softer terms like “right-wing nationalists.” However counter-intuitive this might seem, nazism is not nationalism. If anything, it is the opposite of nationalism. Here’s why.
Zelensky is the new Hitler, and nazis are globalists.
https://readingjunkie.com/2022/03/29/zelensky-is-the-new-hitler-and-nazis-are-globalists/
I’m surprised at the number of comments on the Saker blog eagerly calling this piece of news a massive defeat of Russia and/or suggesting the deal ought to be taken for the purpose of ending the wall. It would make sense if they were pro-Western bots in disguise eagerly awaiting the opportunity to pounce. If not, then it’s unsettling.
Now a few comments about the negotiations in question. I think the Saker himself and many of the people who regularly follow his blog and post comments are aware of the following:
1) War and diplomacy go hand in hand. The latter (during ongoing war operations) serves the purpose of political maneuvering
2) Ongoing negotiations don’t mean a genuine willingness to sign a treaty that would lead to the cessation of hostilities. This makes us refer back to the point above.
Russian leadership, at this point, is well-aware of the fact that the Ukrainian side is not a sovereign actor and not capable of reaching a genuine, lasting agreement with Russia. If that’s been the case, we would not be in this situation, Russia would not need to intervene at all. The impossibility of reaching an agreement is further reinforced by the fact the Kiev regime is now dominated by radical elements. When I said Ukraine is not a sovereign actor most of you will know what I’m talking about – Washington would not let its puppets abide by any agreement signed. Minsk treaters should serve as a perfect example.
As for the military implications and the MoD’s announcement that it would ‘dramatically reduce’ offensive operations near Kiev, we might interpret it as an official indicator of an already evident fact that Russia intends to clean up Mariupol and then proceed to neutralize the entire formation of UA forces in the Donbas. Having achieved that, a relatively swift collapse of Ukrainian resistance would be a likely outcome.
Scott Ritter has already addressed the military implications in a Twitter post:
https://twitter.com/RealScottRitter/status/1508826601198436352
In short, there’s no excuse for defeatism.
Even if it was a matter of pro-Western bots waiting for the opportunity to pounce, why is now an opportunity? Moving troops away from the enemy capital is not an obvious sign of victory after all. And if it was from a need to clean up Mariupol or Donbass, why not introduce more troops from Russia?
it might be better to see how this plays out but Kadyrov’s obvious misgivings are shared by me, and I suspect others, including Russians. And not the kind of Russians who support the “West” either.
Medinsky is a traitor, or more precisely has always been on the wrong side
Negotiations in Turkey – which is in war with Russia because it supplies Ukraine with drones – 7s by itself ultimate betrail of the soldiers and people of Donbass who sacrificed their lives. Hope the fifth column will be defeated at the end….and that the end is near
I think, this sitrep should have been delayed, until a clear and analyzed translation, including a profound comment on what means what, who said what and what’s a proposal or an agreement.
On this blog, we have people of many nations and tongues and automatic translations,that do no right to the subject.
It’s especially difficult to comprehend, when someone writes to us, about comments from a third party, about what a fourth party proposed.
As far as I’m concerned, I’m taking this as a delusional proposal of the Ukraine and the proper answer should be: “Sign on the dotted lines,what is the unconditional surrender.”
Negotiations are a smoke screen for Russia to redeploy and take the south and east. Russia does not trust Ukraine to uphold it’s part of any agreement after Minsk. Russia is buying time to consolidate it’s gains set the stage for the eventual partition of Ukraine.
The puppet Ukkie/’Muricun regime is trying to buy time before it’s collapse. Will the DEMONS in sheep’s clothing see the writing on the wall? I doubt it. The “west” is in their death throes, so expect a MASSIVE false flag, to be blamed on Russia. Probably biological. 300 ‘Muricun labs scattered throughout the world says so.
Yesterday the brutal torture of russian POWs
Today this ridiculous proposal and the weak presentation of russian delegation……?
Difficult to understand
Possible coup attempt inside the Kremlin?
It’s not hard to buy a person, be that Shoigu or Lavrov. And Putin is too old to retain any influence.
Medvedev also might be involved, he is young enough to make a change. Although, he was one of the most vocal “patriots” lately.
I don’t know, we must now give time to time.
Yeah. Smells like. Medinsky and “his team” performed unbelievable poor and unprofessional. This opens door for speculations. Medinsky’s weak presentation at this so called meeting fits all conventional traitor types
There’s a coup inside your brain.
⚡️Pushilin: DPR will consider joining the Russian Federation after the liberation of the entire republic
The withdrawing from the capital could be a strategy to draw the Ukrainian army into a less populated area. ( as seen by the comments the Ukrainians will think they won and start chasing the retreating Russians to end up in a trap)
@ ariadna
Earlier I posted a comment on the poor performance of the Russian military in Ukraine who target civilians but keep fumbling again and again and hitting military objectives instead.
I also mentioned the similar pitiful record of the Russian “wet job” secret service agents who fail to kill their designated victims with lethal neurologic agents which they frantically smear on the targets underwear and on the doorknobs, and pour them in their tea and water like so many Mr Beam.
It appears that they tried to poison Abramovic while he was helping the peace negotiations but, because he was actually not present there, they only managed to give him a face peeling:
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/03/ukraine-smoke-and-mirrors-around-poisonous-peace-talks.html#more
I think you’re here to replicate disinformation. We have enough with the MSM presstitutes out there to have it imported here. Do you actually work for Bellingcat?
Lone Wolf
Totally missed opportunity to free the entire Novorossiya back in 2014/2015 with way less of an effort; then Minsk 1, then Minsk 2, and now this “deal”?! How many times should Russian “grand chess players” be fooled by the west to feel any shame before their very people? This reminds me of Milosevic’s “tactics” and “victories”: resist, resist… and accept the defeat at the end claiming yet another “victory” Zionazis will walk away from this “deal” rightfully chuckling with glee!
https://twitter.com/RealScottRitter/status/1508813631311466496?t=FQc8yAgf2bRFIA5oN3d5NA&s=19
A truly excellent thread discussing the current state of the war in Ukraine, and the Russian changes, which many in the west have interpreted as signals that the Russians are losing.
Posted in Intel Slava Telegram channel
https://m.vz.ru/politics/2022/3/29/1151039.html
Russia has taken two steps towards peace
In any case, the current round of talks between Russia and Ukraine does not mean a change in Moscow’s plans, Russian presidential spokesman Dmitry Peskov said. “As for the fate of the negotiations, this is a really interesting question. Today or tomorrow we will understand whether there is something promising or not. Otherwise, the special military operation, and denazification is one of the goals of the operation, continues, “ he said.
———————–
I posted about the same above.
/sitrep-russia-ukraine-negotiations-further-details-revealed/#comment-1055356
“…I am not concerned about the not mentioning of denazification during the negotiations, that is one of the special operations’ objectives, not subject to negotiation. I posted a comment yesterday about it, replying to a comment from another poster re: an article from FT stating Russia “no longer demanding denazification in Ukraine…””
———————–
Lone Wolf
Sputnik News (Ukraine, Russia, CIS & Baltics)
Russia will put forward counter initiatives after considering Ukraine’s proposals – Medinsky
All the theses announced earlier were Kiev’s proposals, not the provisions of the treaty.
According to the head of the Russian delegation, there is still a long way to go to prepare an agreement between Russia and Ukraine on mutually acceptable terms.
De-escalation in the Kiev and Chernihiv directions does not mean a cease-fire – Medinsky.
So it begins…….
Ukraine might as well Surrender now because by the end of the process it is going to be one.
A lot of people on the Board have shown distress over this news. But I suggest reading this twitter post by Scott Ritter on this precise same topic.
https://twitter.com/RealScottRitter/status/1508813631311466496?t=FQc8yAgf2bRFIA5oN3d5NA&s=19
As per Shoigu, the special operation continues uninterrupted “until the set goals are achieved.” Having depleted the combat potential of Ukrainian army, the main goal is the liberation of Donbass.” Great timing for Shoigu to come out with strongly reassuring words.
https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/14213297
Shoigu announced the fulfillment of the main tasks of the first stage of the special operation in Ukraine
According to the head of the Russian Defense Ministry, the special operation will continue until the set goals are achieved.
MOSCOW, March 29. /tass/. The main tasks of the first stage of the special military operation in Ukraine have been completed, during which the Armed Forces of Ukraine suffered significant damage. This was stated by Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu on a conference call on Tuesday.
“First, about the progress of the special military operation of the Russian armed forces on the territory of Ukraine. In general, the main tasks of the first stage of the operation have been completed. The combat potential of the Ukrainian armed forces has been significantly reduced, which allows us to focus our main attention and efforts on achieving the main goal – the liberation of Donbass,” he said.
According to Shoigu, ” The Armed Forces of Ukraine have suffered significant damage.” “Air supremacy has been won. The air force and the air defense system were almost destroyed, ” the Minister said.
He said that 123 of the 152 aircraft that were in combat with the Armed Forces of Ukraine before the start of the operation were destroyed, 77 of the 149 helicopters, and 152 of the 180 long-and medium-range air defense systems.
“The country’s naval forces have ceased to exist. All formations of the ground and amphibious assault forces suffered significant losses, ” Shoigu said.
Set goals
The special military operation in Ukraine will continue until the set goals are achieved, Shoigu said.
“The Russian armed forces will continue a special military operation until the set goals are achieved,” Shoigu said on a conference call on Tuesday.
According to him, during the special operation, the Russian military is actively helping the population of the Luhansk and Donetsk People’s Republics and Ukraine to establish a peaceful life.
“We are actively providing humanitarian aid to the population of the LPR, DPR and, of course, Ukraine. 684 humanitarian actions have already been held. 6,079 tons of cargo were delivered to 210 localities, ” Shoigu said.
————————–
Lone Wolf
Mr. Medinsky forgot to mention that he was just voicing the Ukrainian proposals to the Russian delegation. That opened the hell of anger in Russia and big part of Ukraine, judging from many blogs and hundreds thousands comments. People from Ukraine mostly concerned that russia is going to trow them away again. – Опять бросили ?
I was very distressed by this press conference, too. Especially looking at the trembling faces and hands of both Medinsky and the military representative.
Mr. Medinsky later clarified this point.
Whether Russia will agree or not to these outrageous proposals is very questionable. Probably not. Otherwise, it is going to be the stupidest of the stupidest Minsk 3 event. Or even the neutral status wih guarantors of Yanukovitch.
RT – Then we have to ask why Medinsky and the other one were there at all, if they are not competent.
Valid question.
I am more concerned about the Ministry of defense decision re Kiev, and anouncing it publicly. The attack on Kiev was stopped two days ago and part of Russian forces headed to territories on the left bank of Dnepr river.
Smells like when Milosevic THROW KRAJINA SERBS UNDER THE NATO BUS.
Medinsky and “his team” performed unbelievable poor and unprofessional. This opens door for speculations. Medinsky’s weak presentation at this so called meeting fits all conventional traitor types
Ukraine being admitted into the EU would present the EU with one hell of a headache. It might even hasten the demise of the EU. It would be like a cow with really sore teats inviting another ravenously hungry ( and sharp toothed ) critter to suck away at an already crowded ‘feeding station.’
This prelim agreement – as communicated – smells of Russian weakness. Should this be signed Putin will be gone within one year and the Empire will be all over Russia like rabid hyenas.
People are over reacting on Russia’s response to Ukraine’s written proposals. Here is from RT’s article.
“Medinsky explained the announcement of a de-escalation on the approaches to Kiev, among other reasons, by the fact that key decision makers are based in the capital.
Russia’s top negotiator also underlined that there is a difference between de-escalation and ceasefire.
“This is not a ceasefire, this is our desire to gradually come to a de-escalation of the conflict, at least in these areas, …. and we understand that there are people in Kiev who need to make decisions,” he said.
“We don’t want to put this city at additional risk,” Medinsky stressed.”
There is a long ways to go to reach a settlement, which Russia wants. The special operation ” continues.
That still leaves quite a lot of Russian speaking people in South and Eastern Ukraine tied into a new Ukraine that can join the EU. Given how the EU is now a satrapy of the USA, that probably means that those Russian speakers will be cut off from their cultural heritage, indeed told to hate it.
It’s quite hard to see how joining the EU is compatible with Ukraine being neutral economically.
Key is asking European voters (the political prostitutes will sign Ukraine up unquestioningly) whether they actually WANT Ukraine to join. Especially seeing as how Ukraine has ordered Germany to destroy its entire industrial heritage through cutting off Russian gas.
The people who matter aren’t the politicians, it’s the citizens. If I were a German seeing standard of living being destroyed by Ukrainian nonsense, I wouldn’t call them friends, let alone allies. I’d call them best friends of the enemy…..
I am assuming that if these peace talks go well, then Russia will miraculously be able to sell gas to the EU again.
The de-Russification of Ukraine is galloping, although, it would seem, much further:
“A draft has been submitted to the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine to ban the activities of the Russian Orthodox Church, seize real estate and other property” …
@voenkorKotenok
Sounds like trustworthy negotiating partners for Russia – not.
Ukraine should just surrender now and save lives.
By the time the negotiations are over it is going to feel like one. Russia will get everything it asks for.
I trust Putin to follow up on everything he promised. He never bluffs.
My only concern is that he tries to rebuild ties with the Western companies that sanctioned Russia and cheered on the attack against Russia.
He should kick them out of Russia for good. Pivot towards Asia and sell everything in rubles.
My fear is when this over trade will just return to normal. I feel that would be a HUGE oppertunity missed.
That’s my only concern.
Southfront on Todays Negotiations:
ALARMING RESULTS OF ANOTHER ROUND OF NEGOTIATIONS BETWEEN UKRAINE AND RUSSIA
Moscow’s possible consent to the Kiev’s proposals may mean the Russia’s unconditional military and diplomatic defeat.
https://southfront.org/alarming-results-of-another-round-of-negotiations-between-ukraine-and-russia/
Frank, don’t know how many times one must say something, but please do not post links to southfront. Everyone knows where it is. It is sanctioned by the US State Department.
@ Frank
I’d say you’re always posting “alarming” headlines with a negative tone, mostly innuendo to the subject at hand, with subliminal (and malicious) implications, without making any contributions to the debate. What’s your point?
Lone Wolf
His point is he has no point, much like the US-NATO-Ukrainian administrative circus.
Obfuscation is his trademark.
Just another useless eater!
Ukraine joining the EU😅are they taking the piss? Sounds like it. Putin is finished if he doesn’t take Kiev
Kadyrov said this yesterday. Russia should have sent him to the negotiations. The irony of a Chechen being more loyal to Russia than many other Russians is breathtaking:
Ramzan Kadyrov, in his TG channel, expressed his personal opinion about the negotiations with Ukraine and the tasks of the special operation.
“I think that these negotiations will be of no use. I believe that we must completely finish what we started – to destroy Bandera, Natsiks and shaitans. Only then you need to decide what to do next.
Kadyrov said that in the shelters abandoned by the nationalists, the fighters find medals, grenades, chevrons and uniforms that the opponents left in a hurry. He noted: “The brave Ukrainian soldiers are throwing even the old people, with whom they used to hide behind themselves, like a human shield. Our fighters have to provide them with all the necessary assistance and evacuate them to a safe place. The worst thing is that such an attitude towards civilians on the part of Bandera criminals is widespread. In the near future, we will deliver the Ukrainian people from the violence inflicted on them by their own government. Not a single war criminal will escape our inevitable punishment!”
Kadyrov_95
The escalation by NATO to the point of being willing to use nuclear weapons to “protect” the Ukraine I do not think was thought as extremely likely. Of course the NATO team also calculated by hurting the Russian Federation fiscally that there might be a change of governance. I think it is feasible that a body double or several exist for Putin. The long table is a clue. Oligarchs meeting with Putin know him. From a distance though plausible deniability is this was Putin. It may be that a collective leadership exists using the image of Putin as a Potemkin Village
And yet, on the on the other hand, https://twoplustwoequalsfournews.wordpress.com/2022/03/09/is-the-russia-ukraine-conflict-being-perpetrated-by-a-new-world-order-that-is-already-in-control/
LDNR anouncing that they are going to have a referendum to join Russia. Did they know that the liberation of the whole of Ukraine might not be in the plans of Kremlin and decided to prevent what happened to them for 8 long and horrible years?
A lot of firing going on in Odessa, according to someone there. Another front developing?
Odesa needs to be taken, thus completely cutting Ukraine ( and NATO) from access to Black See.
Ukrops mined the Black See ports, but because they did with their left feet now those mines are everywere from Mariupol to the Bosphorus. The fishing stopped, the see transport stopped, all vessels endangered…Who is going to pay all those losses?
A large force is moving on Nikolaev. This is the next logical move. You can’t take Odesa until you take Nikolaev. Why do you think there has been so many artillery and missile strikes on this city? Ukrop has taken massive losses in Nikolaev itself and after the idiotic attempt at a counter attack on Kherson.
Meanwhile there has been a huge build up of Equipment in the Kursk/Belgorod area by Russia. Bigger than what has been committed to the operation to date. Obviously that is intended for Kharkov, but I would not discount Sumy.
Apparently these are the Ukraine proposals.Add them agreeing to Crimea being part of Russia, ensuring the wishes of the people of Donbass and the end of the Nazi scumbags and we are almost there! Also,very important
must be the unhindered prosecution of the Ukrainian war crimes and action over those bio-labs.
I see a lot of assumptions being made here. It is important for people to recall, that two times during the Syrian Campaign, the withdrawal of Russian troops from Syria was officially announced including by Putin himself. In fact, after such statements, the grouping of the RF Armed Forces in Syria increased and operations intensified. I suggest we wait for real events on the ground.
Yes Cyric,
I trust him to complete his promises.
He never bluffs.
Ukraine might as well surrender now and save lives.
By the time these negotiations end. They’ll wish they had surrendered. Russia will get everything it asks for.
Putin knows he holds all the cards.
Well, if this turns out to be subterfuge, all power to it.
Basically the same report is coming from Armstrong:
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/war/ukraine-russia-peace-talks-will-sanctions-be-lifted/
Weeks ago I asked was it possible for Russia to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Now we know the answer ,yes they could. From what we see today the Atlanticists in the government have won. And now the big question will be if Putin’s government will survive for much longer.Every time I heard that there were going to be “peace” negotiations going on my heart almost stopped. Because I knew if Russia would be thrown it would be there. And I wasn’t wrong. After all those dead,wounded and tortured soldiers and civilians,they come to this.And the nazi regime stays in power to kill some more.
If anyone thinks that those hyenas and their Western masters will keep their word they are wrong. No matter how they try to spin it,NATO and Ukraine will be popping the corks if this works for them. And the world (including China) will see this as a Russian defeat. They say that war is another form of politics. That means to win you must win both the military and political parts of a war. Russia’s military is winning their part of the war. But as we see today,the political part of the war is helping the enemy to win. The famous US saying “you can put lipstick on a pig,but it’s still a pig” comes to mind here.
There were 6 Russian demands as I remember at the start,1.Demilitarization of Ukraine,2.Denazification of Ukraine,3.Neutrality of Ukraine,4.Ukraine to recognize Crimea as part of Russia,5. Ukraine to recognize the LDNR as independent countries,6.the legal use of the Russian language in Ukraine. The only one of those demands Ukraine says they agree to is the one on Neutrality,and only with guarantees from NATO states and others.And that is one they said they would be willing to discuss before the SMO started.There is no way to spin that into a win for Russia,I’m sorry,but there just isn’t. If this ends without,at the very least those 6 demands being accomplished its a defeat.
Point 4 of the Ukranian proposals is quite incredible.
“Russia no longer requires the denazification of Ukraine during the negotiations.”
After spending over a month denying they were nazis.
That is propaganda gold for the Russians.
Machine translation (Yandex) of Colonel Cassad article “on the negotiations”. I have edited it in a few places.
—————————————–
About my personal position regarding negotiations with the Nazi regime in Kiev.
1. Negotiations can be held to discuss the terms of surrender on the basis of acceptance of all the demands put forward earlier (Crimea, LDNR, demilitarisation, denazification, neutrality, termination of discrimination against Russians and the Russian language).
2. If it is necessary to make additional efforts to achieve the goals set by military means, they should be applied, since the Russian Federation has used, frankly speaking, only part of its resources, conducting essentially a limited military operation against the enemy, which has already rolled back to the stage of total mobilisation.
3. Negotiations can continue as long as they do not interfere with the planned development of operations of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation to achieve the objectives. The actions of the troops can be stopped only upon the conclusion of an agreement on the acceptance of the requirements of the Russian Federation or within the framework of local humanitarian tasks to save the civilian population.
4. Failure to achieve at least part of the set goals is likely to mean just another postponed war in the medium or long term. You can also be sure that concessions on the main objectives of the operation will have negative consequences within the country.
5. The position in the negotiations should not be softened, but tightened, making it clear that delays in negotiations and acceptance of the requirements of the Russian Federation will lead to the emergence of new mandatory requirements.
6. The Cold War with the United States and NATO will not stop, regardless of how long it will continue in Ukraine. Leaving Ukraine under the control of the American puppet regime, we cannot say that the threat to the country has been eliminated.
7. The refusal of the United States and Ukraine to conclude peace on Moscow’s terms should lead to the emergence of new state entities in the liberated territories with a government loyal to Moscow with the option of further admission to the Russian Federation or a Union State.
https://t.me/boris_rozhin/37655
Regarding the consequences, Medinsky’s statements can be summarised as follows…
A call from the Old Square. (My note – not sure what this refers to)
– Tell Medinsky to read it out as if we are ready to accept it.
– It will be done.
A few moments later
– Well, fuck it! Well, did you see, did you see?!
In general, if someone wanted to see the reaction of society to some sort of Minsk-3, then today it was possible to watch. So to speak, a teaser. (My note: Boris Rozhin who runs the site is apparently commenting on the negative reaction among the Russian commentariat.)
Cassad on the negotiations: to discuss the terms of surrender, previous acceptance by Ukraine of Russian objectives for the special operation. The twits from Medinsky and Kadyrov are funny. Cassad is not a fan of Medinsky, or negotiations, I gather.
https://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/7525707.html
About my personal position on the negotiations with the Nazi regime in Kiev.
( Collapse )
1. Negotiations can be held to discuss the terms of surrender on the basis of accepting all the previously put forward requirements (Crimea, LDNR, demilitarization, denazification, neutrality, ending discrimination against Russians and the Russian language).
2. If it is necessary to make additional efforts to achieve the goals set by military means, they should be applied, since the Russian Federation has used only a part of its resources, leading in fact a limited military operation against the enemy, who has already fallen back to the stage of total mobilization.
3. Negotiations can continue as long as they do not interfere with the planned development of operations of the Russian Armed Forces to achieve their goals. The actions of the troops can be stopped only upon the conclusion of an agreement on the acceptance of the requirements of the Russian Federation or within the framework of local humanitarian tasks to save the civilian population.
4. Failure to achieve at least some of the goals set will most likely simply mean a delayed war in the medium or long term. You can also be sure that concessions on the main objectives of the operation will have negative consequences within the country.
5. The position in the negotiations should not be softened, but toughened, making it clear that delays in negotiations and acceptance of the requirements of the Russian Federation will lead to the emergence of new mandatory requirements.
6. The Cold War with the United States and NATO will not end, no matter how long the Cold War in Ukraine continues. Leaving Ukraine under the control of the American puppet regime, it is impossible to say that the threat to the country has been eliminated.
7. The refusal of the United States and Ukraine to conclude peace on Moscow’s terms should lead to the emergence of new state formations in the liberated territories with power loyal to Moscow, with the option of further admission to the Russian Federation or the Union State.
https://t.me/boris_rozhin/37655
Regarding zradoperemog, Medinsky’s statements can be briefly described as follows…
Call from the Old Square.
“Tell Medinsky to read it out as if we’re ready to accept it.”
“It will be done.”
A few moments later
– Well, fuck it! Well, did you see it, did you see it?!
——————————————–
Lone Wolf
I have posted the same, plus an extra line at the end. Rozhin and most of his commentators are not keen. I share his opinion.
I am afraid that there is somebody in Kremlin who doesn’t understand how western mind works. Specially the mind of the western ruling class.
In the so called “western civilization” or “free world”, any sign of humanism. any mercy is considered as weakness.
Being weak, of reluctant to kill, means amoral in the cultural west, means that you do not deserve to live. Then you will be crushed, as Mrs. Nuland said to Lavrov. If unable to kill, you will be killed, very soon.
If anybody have the possibility to pass this information/warning to anybody in the ruling circles in Russia, I beg him/her to do so.
Read — China’s take.
https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202203/1257144.shtml
Saker and others
Does Russia monitor pro-Russia blogs and comments?
Are they getting feedback through intelligence on what pro-Russian people across the world, in Ukraine and in Russia think about this sham of a peace proposal and the press handling by inept Russian representatives?
As for gas for ruble, only two days are left and the whole EU has categorically rejected the proposal
I am wondering what compromise will come out of that front.
I would be surprised if they do not monitor it, although propaganda warfare directed at the Anglosphere is certainly not their forte. They do pay attention to Russian-language propaganda and must be aware that today goes down like a lead balloon.
I don’t know about the fighting aspect (I am nearly 60) but frankly even I could do a better job negotiating for Russia than Medinsky.
EU is NATO, officially stated in the Lisbon EU treaty.
Article 42
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2009_2014/documents/sede/dv/sede200612mutualdefsolidarityclauses_/sede200612mutualdefsolidarityclauses_en.pdf
https://www.upr.fr/liberation-de-la-france-de-lunion-europeenne-frexit/l-union-europeenne-est-subordonnee-a-l-otan/
Very big mistake if Russia ever accepts this.
I am just an amateur observer, no expertise, however this seems to me to be still in the early stages of negotiation and we remain a long way from any meaningful agreement or treaty, certainly one that could be signed by the Russian Federation with any confidence. Perhaps these latest moves are motivated by Western panic at the potential implications of the Russian economic counter-measures, particularly gas for rubles, and by implication, gold.
The Western MSM is making much play of Russia’s statement about stepping down activities in some areas; nothing to say that activities won’t be stepped up in other areas, e.g Odessa.
As for a rump Ukraine (Rump-raine?), or Galicia, or Banderastan, or whatever we wish to name it, joining the European Union; not a chance! First of all, Turkiye will kick up an almighty fuss, having been led a merry dance over its membership candidacy for many years. Secondly, and I know I am out on a limb here, I don’t believe the EU will survive as an organisation in the long term – there are many internal financial stresses that are likely to tear it apart. The ‘gas for rubles’ policy will only pull harder on these stress points.
With this bunch wailing, who needs enemies?
SmoothieX12 weighs in:
2. There is a huge misunderstanding, fueled (surprise, surprise) by Western MSM and some uber-patriotic Russian outlets that Russian-Ukrainian talk in Turkey somehow “stopped” Russian operations. Nothing could be further from the truth.
a) Head of Russian delegation Vladimir Medinsky merely articulated Ukrainian side’s proposals, but NOT Russian position. He also stated that Moscow will review them and will give the answer sometime later (in Russian);
There is more: http://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2022/03/few-items-tuesday.html#disqus_thread
I guess those that attend this war as spectators feel sore that their team is not doing exactly as they wanted their team to do.
My biggest surprise through all of this, was to really realize how deeply nazi culture had infected the west. We all know that some were rescued by the western forces after the 2ndWW and that they had/have an influence and it is generational. But how big it was, I could not have known.
Now there is an inkling.
My second biggest surprise through all of this, was to realize how very shallow the support for Russia really is. Fair weather friends, wanting to be entertained. I think the changes that we are into now, will be entertaining enough. Bye bye hegemon.
Well my friends, let me tell you the bad news now. Russia will stop this war, and your entertainment will stop. You better find something productive.
There were others who said so in all these furious-paced comments. I thank you and commend you.
I think the implication that I and others who have expressed disquiet are impregnated with Nazi culture or that support is “shallow” or that we enjoy the war is deeply unfair. I must note in passing that judging from the Russian Internet, quite a few Russians feel the same way.
If it is a matter of enjoying war, Russia could face it all over again in four or five years anyway, under worse conditions than now. So our “enjoyment” if he wants to call it that will continue.
One thing that might reassure me personally would be if Medinsky is replaced. Because that individual just exudes defeat. And if people are disquieted maybe it is because he is such a poor diplomatic choice.
When the complaints start up, not about Atlanticist supporters but about the “uber-patriotic”, something is likely to be up.
But I will take a rest from commenting here, personally. I sincerely hope I am wrong.
Now, I did not say that, or imply that. I told about what was a major surprise for me.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_eiWyqaua7
Negotiations in Turkey, more fog of war (with Glenn Diesen) The Duran
These clear spoken and informed commentators given a credible take on the likely status of the negotiations. Western media is laughable.
Russia must carpet bomb and destroy all of remaining UKR.Sorry but people had well enough time to leave the conflict since one month.
Otherwise if there is some partition or even worse RU troops returning to mother land, believe me in no time you will get the biggest NATO base in the world in the remaining UKR.They can print trillions if needed, it is a total war with the West, they will never ever accept defeat whatever the costs, losing face means regime change, system(neolib)collapse, they will come back even in small llov banderastan with nukes.
Since when does kiev, the US/UK/EU/NATO gang respect any treaty, paper they signed etc?
Minsk 4 or Minsk 141 no way.
Project nazi Ukraine must be finishef the hard way like it has been done for project nazi Germany.
EU, G7 and co refuse to pay in rubles, ok guys good luck for 10 years of economic depression all this for your pathological whore US behaviour and slavey.
It is the final combat: or regimes changes in Brussels, Berlin, Paris, London and D C or in Moscow, Delhi and Beijing.
Talking about regime change, Pakistan(”we are not your slaves”) is next according to media today(pepe Escobar confirms).
Mexico, Brazil and Serbia( Croatia is cutting RU oil to Belgrade tonight).
They will not settle for less than WWIII. EU is ideology, they will double down even if they face severe consequences(oil, gas,food, migrants by millions coming from Famine Africa etc..)
Sleepy joe collapsing popularity reaching its lowest ever (40%).
Ruble value against USD/EU gained almost 10 % in one day closing at 84.
All the losses since day one almost recovered.
Why such a rush?
1. The meeting in Istanbul resulted in a proposal from Ukraine. Russia wants to evaluate it and then respond. From the ground of the war time ist in favor of Russia. So now they evaluate and evaluate.
2. the movement of troops away from Kiev was plausibly explained by Scott Ritter on Twitter. The AFU is no longer mobile due to the destruction of the fuel depots. They have nowhere to go.
3. Ad denazification: it can only refer to a certain level of leadership. Nazification was initiated from above and not from below, it was not a grassroots movement. A large part are fellow travelers, who for whatever reason (fear, greed, anger, poverty, national identity, stupidity..) participated, but have no extreme ideological motivation. The attraction of such brutal movements in certain social situations is nothing new.
This is on Col Cassad’s Telegram site. Now ask ourselves is only one of these acceptable.And especially if that one is even only “kind of” fulfilled:
I remind you of the officially announced goals.
1. Recognition of Crimea as part of Russia.
2. Recognition of the DPR and LPR as independent states.
3. Demilitarization (this item is successfully completed in fact)
4. Denazification
5. Neutral status of Ukraine.
6. Constitutional refusal to join NATO.
7. Repeal of discriminatory laws regarding the Russian language.
8. Ending discrimination against the Russian population in Ukraine.
Ukraine joining the EU would mean it is not neutral, as the EU acts as a block with sanctioning and other hostile measures. Even Switzerland is not officially part of the EU. Being neutral should mean neither NATO nor EU. It doesn’t mean they can’t have trade and other agreements with the EU.
Also they leave out that Ukraine hasn’t given up on trying to get Donbass and Crimea through “diplomatic” means. I read that part from another source. I don’t see why RT leaves that out.
Ukraine hasn’t recognized Crimea’s referendum, and one which was done with no killing or ethnic cleansing, and for a place which wasn’t even part of Ukraine until 1954, and that by a dictator’s (Khrushchev’s) decision and no vote nor wish from the people.
It is much too early for Russia to stop as Ukraine is still sending missiles at the Donbass and even over the border into Russia. Russia needs to destroy this capability.
There’s nothing on the prosecution of those who perpetrated the Odessa massacre or other tortures and crimes these past 8 years.
Also if you have the U.S. and NATO staying for DECADES in the countries where it fought wars, why should Russia agree to leave after several weeks and allow things to work their way back to how they were before.
No way these terms are settled on. No guarantee for the independence of Mariupol? After all that suffering and fighting? No way. Russia is going to demand Mariupol become independent at the very least. Plus oversight of Ukraine’s neutral status will have to be agreed on and Kiev will likely never let that happen.
amarynth on March 29, 2022 · at 3:31 pm EST/EDT
With this bunch wailing, who needs enemies?
Dear Amarynth,
I very much appreciate your opinion on sundry subjects, however, with all due respect, I believe you’re overreacting to those who overreacted before you, to the news on the Turkey negotiations.
In general, most people who post on this blog come here not to be “entertained,” as you suggested, as if this war were a computer game. I don’t believe either they come here as “spectators” to celebrate the carnage as in a Roman coliseum. Most posts I read, are people who are concerned about a) the present and future of Russia; b) the people of Donbass; c) the future of humanity.
Most posters are concerned about the nazification of the world, and forward their own countries as examples, reason they are rooting for Russia on this special operation, hoping the cleansing of Ukraine will have an effect on Europe and beyond since, as the Saker stated just recently, this war is about the denazification of the planet. I don’t believe any of us who expressed our disappointment with the way the result of the negotiations were announced, and I am among them, are here as spectators for entertaining.
I thought your first intervention on the subject was balanced, and sobered up some of us who failed to look at the big picture. The way the announcement was framed and portrayed, was not helpful in giving us the full narrative of the arrangements behind the negotiations. In the background, we are all weary of the misinformation campaign against which we filter reality day in and day out, and that factor counts at all times in the equation. We are also accompanying the Russian/LDNR/Chechens in their campaign to exterminate the remnants of the nazi scum in Mariupol and other places, and a sudden announcement of slowing down the special operation to allow a space for negotiations, felt like an unexpected, unannounced, bucket of Arctic water on our backs.
Please take all of that into account in your judgment, and you will have a more balanced view of posters’ opinions. It is easy to hurt people, like the poster who replied to you and stated will stop posting here. His privilege, he might have a thin skin, nevertheless, we all have our reasons to be here, and none of us like to be downgraded to “spectators” being here for “entertainment.” In general, your comments are balanced and provide a perspective into whatever subject is on the thread, however, lately I have noticed your reactions to other posters, and they seem to come from someone on a short fuse. Though sometimes justified, as with the idiot who complained about “There are no comments yet,” tiredness also can turn any peaceful character into an explosive one. Given the role you play here, I don’t think you have too much leeway to explore that side of yourself.
In peace,
Lone Wolf
Did I overreact Lone Wolf? Almost certainly. I was shocked to my shoes with the mob crying Bad Russia. Without good information, although a few posters tried because some of us understood it as much as is possible. It was like trying to guide a tsunami.
But nothing one could do would stop the Bad Russia storming. Very few questions, just a mad jumping to conclusions.
As I posted this up this morning I already had the feeling that we will get a response from some kinda like – how in hell do you want to deprive me of my war? The first posts poured in so soon after this was posted that there was no way that those posters could have listened to the small presser or even looked at the few lines posted with attention. It was a kneejerk – one poster suggested that we were being ‘swarmed’. That is what it felt like to me.
And what shocked me more, is that everything was forgotten – for example … Russia must take Kiev or what about the territory gained?. Did we forget that Russia does not want the Ukraine? and ‘taking Kiev is nowhere a stated objective. And Russia is not trying to gain territory.
People posted requirements like wish lists. There are only two .. demilitarization and denazification. So, everyone worked with their dream outcome and the reality was forgotten.
Did I overreact. Yes! You are 100% right. The pacing of comments was so furious, that very few even read what came before. I tried to keep up reading but I could not even keep up with just reading at the furious pace comments came in. Should I have overreacted? Probably not.
@ Amarynth
Keep up the good work. Don’t forget to rest.
Cheers.
Lone Wolf
If we consider that the objective from the beginning has not been Ukraine but that the hegemonic will of the United States and its allies in Ukraine has been skillfully exploited by Russia, with the aim of an large- scale attack on economy, it seems to me that the situation makes more sense. Oil deals with India are at the end of the week, exchanges with China are intensifying, ruble is stabilized, Russia is putting external adversaries in a more delicate situation to provoke an escalation of the conflict, and inside Ukraine the army has been taken for a long time and can ‘t do anything.
So check. The economic bomb is dropped and time is now playing in favor of the Russians, the risk of external intervention or false flag is less important in this situation of possible status quo. As when he was preparing his troops at the border, Putin seems to be waiting behind a solid defense for the next move from the adversary, to decide in which direction to advance.
It was the mainstream occidental press that was skilfully exploited, by legitimizing the aggressions against Russia to make it the symbol of the undeniable power of the West, it carried out a formidable propaganda operation to legitimize Russian economic decision as no being mere revenge, when everything seems to indicate that economic confrontation was precisely what Russia wanted all along. Moreover, the mainstream press has legitimized the loss of confidence in the dollar by carefully reporting the daily illegal confiscations of Russian funds or assets, and by reporting on the travels of American diplomats to the four corners of the world to bribe or threatens opponents to their hegemonic vision. Nobody would have listen to the Russians if they had reported the facts themselves. Who listened to the Afghans? The Western media and governments have made themselves more unpopular than they already were to finally perfectly justify a situation that will make them even more unpopular, a major economic crisis in the Western zone, and all this for the benefit of the Russians and the Chinese, and their allies.
The Russians seem to have done what no one had succeeded in doing before them, that is to say, to challenge the hegemony of the dollar, and to have succeeded in placing the main responsibility for it on the West. If we consider that the economic component is fairly well underway by Russia, it seems to me that the major risk would not be the loss of Ukraine, the country had fallen on the 2nd day, the problem would be that faced with the inevitable economic catastrophe looming in the west, the globalists are choosing the worst course of action, escalating the conflict even with the unpredictable risks that might entail. In this sense, Russia by supporting a possible diplomatic resolution of the conflict is gaining time and blocking a little “the diagonal of the fool”. As she seems to have done from the start.
If you doubt Russian solidity right now, listen to their leaders and compare their speeches to those of Western leaders. For my part, I have not seen any doubt or contradiction in the Russian discourse since the beginning of this conflict. The West has unwittingly clearly revealed that it is on economic war whith China, Russia and most of the rest of the world. If that’s what Russia wanted, so it has already accomplished part of the mission it set for itself. Russia sacrified a pawn, but has gain a more solid defense and a very good strategic position. What this last 4 weeks reveal clearly to majority, it’s that the world is more multi-polaire every day. And that’s occidental propaganda media and their corruptly governments, against their interests, who claimed it to the all world every day.
By the way, if Russia had made obligatory the payment of gas and oil in rubles before the war, the west would have declared economic war on it or a war under false flag as it did in Iraq… It is It is possible that it was to prevent Russia and China from offering an alternative to the dollar in the exchange of raw materials that the Occident had been preparing for several months an attack in Ukraine to destabilize the area and perhaps even invade Russia.
Regarding Abramovich’s so-called poisoning and blinding, maybe it wasn’t the Russians or the Ukrainian’s, instead it was the Ghost of Sunny Liston.
Talk is cheap and despite the Ukrainian’s faint attempts at good will, Russia needs to push for unconditional surrender and on her terms only!
Anything else will be seen as failure and delay tactics as the West has already said they’re going to continue to support a rump Ukraine with arms and political support.
The Russians hold all the cards and can dictate the tempo so no need to rush to talks when the junta in Kiev has no real desire nor motivation to halt the conflict let alone enact laws renouncing Nazism, Anti-Russian discrimination nor recognise reality that Crimea and LDNR are Russian territory!?
The West lies, steals and cheats any chance it gets so finish the battle and to the victor go all the spoils, otherwise expect to see the same fait as the naïve Serbs who in the 1990s held all the territory and strength only to see is dwindled away through endless negotiations and so-called goodwill of the West and its proxies!
Cant trust the west!.
The operation needs to demilitarize ukraine, denazify, and sadly divide westujraibe from ukraibe.
If the last step is not done, then the westukraine crazies will just continue with tgeir crazy indictrinations of the youth and tge people and other programs.
And without Donetsk and Lugansk, the etnic russians will always be a big minority in ukraine bc of westukraine.
If history have told anything… NEVER trust tge west. Tgey will just regroup and prepare for an even heavier attack.
Continue to get rid of gas etc. So they can punish russia better in 10 years.
And will get even better grip on indoctrination of anti-russia in tge west.
And will prepare 24/7 for a new better attack on russia.
Maybe next time they will coordinate more successfull attack on all fronts (belarus, asjerbadsjan, georgia, and kazakhstan falseflags. And maybePutin is no longer around so they hope a less strong leaders that they can much easier overrun.
NEVER trust the west.