The pace and effectiveness of the Russian Air Force (well, technically they are now called AirSpace Forces or ASF so I will refer to them as RASF from now on) has the western military experts in shock. Not only are the number of sorties per day about 3 times as much as a US or NATO country could achieve, but the Russian airstrikes are amazingly accurate even though the Russians are flying at over 5000m above ground, well out of reach of man portable air defense systems (MANPADS). They are even flying at night and in bad weather. This is even more puzzling considering that most of the work, at least in quantitative terms, is done by old SU-24s (first deployed in 1974) and SU-25 (first deployed in 1981). In fact, most of the missions in Syria could have been executed by these to excellent but, frankly, ancient aircraft and the main reason for the presence of the brand new and extremely advanced SU-34 is to test out the airframe and its systems (and since the Turks shot down the SU-24, to provide credible air-to-air self defense capability where needed). So what is the deal here? How did the Russians achieve these apparently quasi-miraculous results?
With something called the SVP-24.
But first let me give you some background, a bombing 101 crash course of sorts.
The original bombs of “WWII” technology were simple gravity bombs. Airplanes dropped them by roughly aiming through a basic targeting system and they fell more or less on target. For carpet bombing this was adequate and for precision bombing this was not ideal, but considering the slow speed or aircraft and their low altitude that was okay. However, with the increase in the speed of aircraft a one second delay in releasing a bomb could easily result in a miss by 600-800 meters, if not more. Furthermore, some reinforced targets needed a direct hit (command posts, bridges, etc.). Two main type of guided bombs were developed: laser-guided and TV guided.
The laser guided bomb work very simply: the aircraft (or ground spotter) “paints” the target with a laser beam, and the bomb has some (limited) ability to glide towards that easily distinguishable spot of light. The TV guided bomb also operates in a simple manner: the weapons system officers centers the bomb’s TV camera on the target and glides the bomb towards it. As long as the bomb is within a specific “envelope” (speed, altitude, angle) the bomb will hit. Or not. Because even one small cloud puff can result in a major loss of accuracy which, again, with the speed at which these aircraft fly today can mean hundreds of meters (if that topic interests you, see this Wikipedia article).
The advent of satellite guidance ushered a new era for guided weapons. For the first time it became possible to use GPS (or, for the Russians, GLONASS) satellite signals to guide a bomb to a target. Not only were these satellite guided bombs more accurate, they also did not depend on good weather conditions. Their main problem was that they were very expensive to manufacture. The other problem is that most weapons stores were full of thousands of cheap and old unguided bombs. What to do with them?
The Americans came up with an elegant solution: the JDAM. The Joint Direct Attack Munition kit was a way to convert “dumb” (non-guided) bombs into “smart” (guided) bombs by attaching a special kit to them. You can read more about this in this Wikipedia article. This made it possible to use old bombs, but this was still not cheap, roughly 25’000 dollars a kit (according to Wikipedia).
The Russians came up with a much better solution.
Instead of mounting a kit on an old bomb and lose the kit every time, the Russians mounted a JDAM-like kit, but on the airplane.
Introducing the SVP-24:
The SVP-24 system
SVP stands for “специализированная вычислительная подсистема” or “special computing subsystem”. What this system does is that it constantly compares the position of the aircraft and the target (using the GLONASS satellite navigation system), it measures the environmental parameters (pressure, humidity, windspeed, speed, angle of attack, etc.). It can also receive additional information from datalinks from AWACs aircraft, ground stations, and other aircraft. The SVP-24 then computes an “envelope” (speed, altitude, course) inside which the dumb bombs are automatically released exactly at the precise moment when their unguided flight will bring them right over the target (with a 3-5m accuracy).
In practical terms this means that every 30+ year old Russian “dumb” bomb can now be delivered by a 30+ year old Russian aircraft with the same precision as a brand new guided bomb delivered by a top of the line modern bomber.
Not only that, but the pilot does not even have to worry about targeting anything. He just enters the target’s exact coordinates into his system, flies within a defined envelope and the bombs are automatically released for him. He can place his full attention on detecting any hostiles (aircraft, missiles, AA guns). And the best part of this all is that this system can be used in high altitude bombing runs, well over the 5000m altitude which MANPADs cannot reach. Finally, clouds, smoke, weather conditions or time of the day play no role in this whatsoever.
Last, but not least, this is a very *cheap* solution. Russian can now use the huge stores of ‘dumb’ bombs they have accumulated during the Cold War, they can bring an infinite supply of such bombs to Syria and every one of them will strike with phenomenal accuracy. And since the SVP-24 is mounted on the aircraft and not the bomb, it can be reused as often as needed.
The SVP-24 has now been confirmed to be mounted on the Russian SU-24s, SU-25s, Tu-22M3 “Backfires” and the Kamov Ka-50 and Ka-52 helicopters, the venerable MiG-27 and even the L-39 trainer. In other words, it can be deployed on practically *any* rotary or fixed wing aircraft, from big bombers to small trainers. I bet you the Mi-24s and Mi-35Ms deployed near Latakia also have them.
Here are what the various parts of the SVP-24 system look like (photo from the MAKS Air Show in Zhukovsky):
The SVP-24 proves, yet again, the good engineering, especially good military engineering does not have to be expensive or flashy. In practice the introduction of the SVP-24 in the RASF resulted in a net reduction in operating costs.
In conclusion, I will note that things are not always rosy and perfect in the Russian military either. In fact, the company producing the SVP-24 had to sue the Russian Ministry of Defense for unpaid money and there was a great deal of opposition inside the MoD to the SVP-24 (probably due to the influence of corrupt competitors). Eventually all problems were resolved, the SVP-24 is being deployed in huge numbers, but it took a long and hard battle to get to this point. So, just like in the USA, corruption in the Russian military remains one of the worst enemies of the armed forces.
Anyway, I hope that you have found this digression “under the hood” interesting.
Happy new year to all, all the best for 2016, hugs and cheers,
The Saker
Very interesting indeed and Thanks.
Same here. Thanks and Happy New Year everyone !
compared to JDAM-like kits the disadvantages are that
1. the accuracy suffers a little bit as the SVP has to make more assumptions on things such as pressure and wind speed the dumb bomb will encounter after it is released.
2. The pilot has to fly within a narrower envelope compared to the pilot delivering an on-ordnance guided package.
1 is dependent on the mission. and RSAF has other toys for those missions so this isn’t a big deal.
2. this is more of a problem. its not impacting RSAP right now as the Daesh has no real air defense up where the RSAF is flying except those condom balloons (!), but against a determined and well equipped foe with real AA capabilities this can become an issue.
In any case this is a brilliant solution balancing cost and benefits. So very Russian. love it.
“2. this is more of a problem. its not impacting RSAP right now as the Daesh has no real air defense up where the RSAF is flying except those condom balloons (!), but against a determined and well equipped foe with real AA capabilities this can become an issue.”
Against such a foe, they would not likely be using these “dumb” weapons, but “smart” weapons instead. So that is rather a moot point.
Maybe. Although another nice thing about this system is it’s so passive, seems awfully hard to use any countermeasures against, short of blowing up the GLONASS satellites (I think the Americans would also have a lot of problems if you blew away the GPS satellites). So it could be handy against a sophisticated opponent in that you don’t need to worry about them catching you painting their thingie with a laser and blocking it with aerosols or something.
Definitely an interesting technology to know about. This still doesn’t explain the tempo of the operations; presumably the Russian planes need a lot less maintenance than equivalent NATO planes. Seems to me there is a tendency in American designs nowadays for a certain oversophistication for its own sake; which is to say, ten gajillion points of failure.
” seems awfully hard to use any countermeasures against, short of blowing up the GLONASS satellites (I think the Americans would also have a lot of problems if you blew away the GPS satellites).”
This is ballistics, a well known computational problem. With computers computing the 3D space of a possible attack ‘window’ of every known craft in a defense zone would not be hard. One would not need to blow up sats to defeat the system.
Another problem with this system is that it would be all but ineffective against a moving target unless the target was moving at a constant vector.
But I admit it is clever.
Well, sure, if we’re including “blow up the bombers” as a countermeasure, then that kind of by definition works against any strike method that involves bombers dropping bombs. I’m not sure it would be so easy to figure those ‘windows’ as you say, though. After all, a bomber can approach from any direction, at different heights, different speeds, and loose the bomb while climbing, steady or dropping; those windows could take up a lot of vectors. How much would limitations of this method really simplify the problem of finding an approaching bomber?
But exactly the same applies to the Jdam bomb, still SVP-24 can interface with all others system on the plane, radar, FLIR/IRST and TV camera and so determine target coordinates by itself.
Still not a full capacity to hit target on the move, but it means that a slight change of position of the target doesn’t oblige the mission to be scrapped.
This is the reason they can have such an operational tempo, just doesn’t need to know the exact position before starting : they get a call from SAA and made the rest with their onboard system insead of losing hours to get precise data from coordinations center.
Since this is a very cheap approach (I would think you could put the app to calculate the drop point on a smartphone, not sure why all that equipment shown in the picture is needed) I don’t see why you can’t use it with drones. This would allow to make very accurate but very cheap bombs that can be delivered in drone swarms without risk to pilots – even stealth drones (see e.g. https://twitter.com/PressTV/status/782271775577079809 ). Can even be used against aircraft carriers (together with cruise missiles like the one that hit the UAE HSV-2 Swift today – see https://twitter.com/GhorbaniSadegh/status/782296358044704769).
So the russians developed a cheaper version :-) one system for all boms vs one system per bomb
Unfortunately for the Corporates, it means less money. So West can’t have that!!!
thanks. The most recent articles ( including South Front) about the Russian military have shown an emphasis on flexibility and precision–the same things that the English used to beat the Spanish armada which came lumbering in for over-kill. ( their version of shock and awe) . I think Russian command and control and logistics are also more efficient and perhaps the intelligence is even more accurate overall in the mid East. “Too many cooks spoil the broth” in the Western military effort. Plus the head chef has no appetite for the fight.
The Armada failed due to micromanaging but more importantly due to equinoctial gales.
I heard recently that it was also because much of it was a rush job with substandard materials after Drake did a major raid on the Spanish coast and particularly the port of Cadiz the previous year, destroying a bunch of ships and building material including particularly a massive amount of barrel staves, difficult to replace, which seem to have caused significant supply problems for the Spanish.
Barrels were a weirdly important supply bottleneck in medieval times–hard to make but key for transporting and storing a whole range of food and drink.
From the description I wasn’t able to guess how this thing can possibly work without attaching something to the bomb itself. In other words, I don’t understand “And since the SVP-24 is mounted on the aircraft and not the bomb, it can be reused as often as needed.”
Am I really to assume that by measuring every force and knowing every momentum and speed at initial conditions, that a precision hit can be made … strictly by dropping accurately?
You should familiarize yourself with this game called “Basketball” where the players throw this roundy, bouncing thing through a metal hoop with a net attached to it, and they hit it (almost) every time…quite accurately in fact…there was this Michael Jordan fellow who was quite famous for computing when’s the best time to make the shot…famous in his time (you should google him).
No, what Todd means is, is the guidance on the bombs set at the time of release or is there some provision for the bombs maneuvering after release? One could have some fairly cheap electronics on a dumb bomb allowing for a programmed maneuver to be set at the time of release without putting an entire satellite guidance system on the bomb.
or is there some provision for the bombs maneuvering after release?
No, none. Once released, the bomb fall like a typical dumb bomb – by gravity and velocity.
The basketball example of K above is a very nice way of explaining it
In a simple explanation, this works like solving the ballistic problems from first years of physics (what is the trajectory of a stone of certain weight thrown at a certain angle and with a certain initial speed). Every artillery officer from the first world war had to learn the basic principles. But strong winds effects might change the trajectory sometimes. But I know there are also small modules with small jet engines attached to bombs (or artillery shells). They have GPS module incorporated and are activated in the last stage to perform fine guidance.
What I am very curious about is what kind of Integrated Circuits are the Russians using. Their semiconductors industry is quite small and lags behind, unless they have a very secret one that no one knows about.
They are barely catching up in the microprocessors fields by licensing ARM’s cores (which is a UK company). Check the Baikal project.
Thing about microprocessors though is that the technology has reached the point where even something “primitive” is so tiny its weight doesn’t matter and powerful enough to do an awful lot. If you have a special-purpose gizmo like that one, presumably you can run something like a bare-bones Linux, command-line only, with only the device drivers for the actual gizmo itself and only the libraries you need to run the specific aiming software. Pare away all the slop you need to run a modern desktop and hundreds of different programs and masses of graphical stuff, and what remains is comparatively tiny. Seems to me the challenge would be writing top notch targeting software–but I doubt it would be a huge bulky program by modern standards.
An asic — application specific integrated circuit — would not need even simple Linux (which is general purpose). An embedded circuit can run a washing machine, coffee pot, engine, welder, book binding machine — or drop bombs. If you need to change it you can write a new embedded program (can use a ladder diagram program or similar, and cf programmable logic controllers) and burn a new ROM or reflash the flash memory, and it doesn’t need what is commonly called an operating system. This stuff has been around for a long time, is well understood, and the level of general vs specific can be adjusted when designing it. These can be much simpler than even a minimal Linux kernel, no device drivers, and with smaller hardware — a single chip with everything needed on it. Not that a small general purpose computer would not work or be too big, but it’s probably overkill.
Blue that was a terrible, unintentionally misleading and incorrect explanation. You would not use an ASIC as the core of such a system as as the SVP – it is not a washing machine.
Such a system would use general purpose microprocessors, computing platform and a real time operating systems in the mission critical portions. The idea of using an ASIC and rom is an unsustainable, poor design and expensive for a complete system like this. They can continue to add capabilities to the system thru software upgrades and modular hw add-ons. An ASIC in mission critical applications is mostly used for a fixed repetitive relatively simple task that is computationally intensive when executed on a general purpose CPU; I.e. used in components of a system, not the core. The calculations involved in the SVP are not computationally intensive (straightford physics). Neither is the volume of inbound data so large that an even a low end old gen RISC processor couldn’t handle it.
An example of ASIC use would be appropriate for ECM and phased array radar, where data volumes are very high and computational speed critical (some low level tasks are too heavy even for some DSPs – there an ASIC makes sense).
In consumer electronics ASICs mau make sense for simple tasks when you divided the cost development and producing the chips over a large volume: again the SVP hardly has those volumes – a max of a few thousand units, plus it’s a moot point it’s requirements are different.
It would not be overkill to use computing platform for this system, it would be a requirement. Also, for mission critical military systems such as this they wouldn’t use Linux for the mission/time critical functions! They’d use an RTOS for the core & control subsystems.
This reminds me of you lecturing an Arab Muslim guest writer, Noureddin Shami, about Islam. That was a sensible as this posting.
Technology has come a long way since Gemini, whose computer was not as powerful as my old XT. ASIC are quite capable now, if hooked up to the proper inputs and outputs.
You can even get a whole system on one chip
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/System_on_a_chip
What I said is accurate. It can certainly be done.
As you said “The calculations involved in the SVP are not computationally intensive (straightford physics). Neither is the volume of inbound data so large that an even a low end old gen RISC processor couldn’t handle it.”
ASIC is real time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemini_Guidance_Computer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application-specific_integrated_circuit
https://aerospace.honeywell.com/products/microelectronics/application-specific-integrated-circuits
http://www.baesystems.com/en/download/1434554725957.pdf
BTW, Shami is not a Muslim — he said so. (And he did not even specify he was an Arab, or where he was from. Maybe Indian or mixed and named after a distant relative or friend, and could be living anywhere — he did not specify, and listed no outstanding qualifications. In any case, )
Ahh… I see in one of his messages Shami does say he is an Arab.
No Blue,
You are as adept at technology as you are in the nuances of the Arabic language, Islamic theology and monetary policy.
The fact that you could not understand the point being made says volumes about the delusion that you can acquire an engineering degree or any other expertise by reading Wikipedia articles.
Re:
ASIC is real time
????? That is a non-sequitur. My hand is real time, what the heck has that got to do with it? A general purpose CPU is realtime if you implement a realtime scheduler (via non maskable hw interrupts) in your code or if the OS implements it. Do you understand the concept of realtime in computing? Obviously not.
You also confuse SoC with ASIC, a general purpose CPU can be incorporated in an ASIC, a GPU can be implemented in an ASIC, so what? What’s that got to with anything? – again a non-sequitur.
Where are the economies of scale? What of a hardened RTOS over your cavalier Linux comment? What of military engineering standards? What of EMF/Environment hardening? What of flexibility, maintainability and upgradability, what of field repairs? What market are you designing to? –> price sensitive mass market or mission critical reliability and performance sensitive end product? Without a doubt you don’t seem to know the drivers, requirements and standards used for producing military electronics systems
Referencing Wikipedia articles in a blind and rote manner and throwing terminology around without understanding it only underscores a lack of personal knowledge and experience (therefore expertise) on subjects where you claim to make such definitive statements.
There is nothing accurate about your statement.
You are also wrong when you state that Noureddin Shami is not Muslim and that he is not an Arab. Again, you are wrong on all counts. He is both Arab and Muslim, it was one of the core points of his article (being a Muslim).
In fact, it is particularly strange that you would not know that Mr. Shami was muslim since he states he states it several times throughout his article and even in a specific comment to you (in response to your ridiculous insistence that you (who neither speak Arabic, have no expertise in Islam, nor any experience in the current opinions in that culture) knew more than Mr. Shami (who is a muslim & arab and is part of that culture) about how significant the opinions of neophyte covert to Islam and author, Karen Armstrong is to Muslims.
– This brings us to the disturbing conclusion – that you did not even read the article you commented on so vociferously: you posted 32 comments out of a total of 217 comments on that article (14% of all comments). Yet, you don’t seem to know the fundamental premise in the main article nor comprehend simple facts the author directed at you.
That smacks of trolling.
Well, they have more than that, i.e :http://www.multiclet.com/,
Elbrus from 2015:
price about 3000-4000$ for whole tower (includign mothermoard). performence: 200 Gflops
Intel Itanium 9300 from 2011 (the last version is just 9500):
price $2000-3900 just for processor only
performence: 93 Gflops
Double win of perfomence. Calculation of Mhz is to figure out the perfomens is level of very beginner for review.
Baikal and some more
That’s actually very poor performance, price/performance, for these days, and 180nm architecture would have huge size (over 100 times the surface of a current cutting edge 14nm dye, for the same transistor count), power and heat dissipation costs, specially for airplanes, where all that is limited and priceless; today you can have dozens of Tflops for the same price and lower operational cost: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLOPS#Hardware_costs
Please take into consideration that Elbrus is manufactured within 90 nm tech just to fit it’s special purpose requirements for use in S-300 and S-400 missile systems.
Russians have already developed and tested 28 nm 8 core 1.4 GHz 250 Gflops Elbrus 8S chip of non-Intel architecture.
http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73032/
Interesting, too bad its all in Russian.. Guess it is not MIPS or ARM either. It is not difficult to design a CPU and now everyone knows 28nm tech.. The problem comes with power draw.. It is very difficult to have acceptable level of performance and low power usage. In space apps, that means usage for 25 years instead of 10 years. The use spent trillions in developing it do no one can ever catch up with that. But for most things it don’t matter. Also would be much harder to hack without knowing how it works. Although 40 years ago the soviets were at the same level as the US and in fact with tubes the soviets were much more advanced and for something’s you still have to use soviet stuff.. Like those space suits..
Russians has their own CPUs. Check Эльбрус-16С and Эльбрус-32С.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%AD%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B1%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81-16%D0%A1
Even though they are not so powerful as their western analogs, they are much more powerful than new Chinese CPUs.
I once got a basketball in the hoop from the halfway line…i just thought i could do it…but never again succeeded….
I’m not so sure Michael Jordan was required to throw his basketball at a target 35000ft under himself through 3 or 4 layers of air moving in different directions.
This article makes the assumption that Russian air strikes in Syria have been accurate. The drone footage of the bomb strikes shows that it is anything but.
Compare to how a sniper work. The air pressure, humidity, and such is known fairly well, as is the charge and weight of the round, velocity, drop of bullet from gravity, The path of the bullet is strictly deterministic if all the factors are known — basic physics. The bullet is completely dumb but if the sniper is skilled and the equipment accurate, the the bullet hits the target.
So think of these planes not as a cheap plinking rifle, but as a sophisticated, computer operated, highly accurate, sniper rifle. (And don’t be surprised if you find there are sniper rifles and other arms using similar technology.)
A sniper can make an educated guess at the time of firing as to wind speed and direction,a based upon several factors; wind blowing in his left ear, dust being kicked up from the road and blowing left and right, temperature is 32 Centigrade. A pilot is disconnected from ANY ability to make such adjustments and I doubt the Russian system is anywhere near as accurate as a JDAM. Cheaper, yes … that’s the Russian way.
The AIRCRAFT does the “educated guess”. The planes using these weapons have radar. With that radar, they are able to measure ground track and ground speed. They are able to read aircraft true heading and airspeed. Calculating the difference between those gives you the wind speed and direction AT ALTITUDE. Now yes, indicated airspeed is NOT true airspeed, but true can be calculated from indicated and the rest of the parameters available on the AC. And wind speed and direction is NOT likely to be constant over the entire flight of the bomb from release to impact. But then that’s why the accuracy is ~5 meters instead of less. If you need to put a couple of proton torpedoes down the exhaust port of a Death Star, this probably ain’t gonna work. But if you’re shiitecanning some oil tankers, well…
Todd, I believe you are correct, and that something is missing, and perhaps confused in Saker’s description. One just needs to consider the physics of the problem to understand that.
If a bomb having non-variable aerodynamic characteristics is released at a point in space with an initial velocity (that of the aircraft), it will follow a trajectory that will be further influenced by aerodynamic forces (especially wind), and it will impact a particular point on the surface below. That same impact point can be achieved with different bomb trajectories. However, each trajectory requires a specific set of initial conditions. That is, each release point requires a specific release velocity. It is not true that an aircraft flying an arbitrary trajectory will at some time satisfy all the required conditions. So, it is not plausible that an aircraft can simply fly within an “envelope”, and by accurately controlling release time, be assured of hitting a target.
On the other hand, an automated system could control the trajectory of the aircraft and accurately release a bomb at the right time. The best known early example of such a system was the Norden Bomb Sight. The SVP-24 might be a more sophisticated example of such a system.
Additional discussion here:
http://www.russiadefence.net/t4646-precision-guided-munitions-in-ruaf#131231
Some points:
– The pilot does the targeting (an advantage).
– The bomb-sighting function does not depend on GLONASS.
– Most accurate targeting is done optically (visible, IR).
– RADAR targeting probably available.
– Preset coordinate targeting (GLONASS) possibly available.
– Excellent CEP due to integration with aircraft systems. (Ostensibly better than pod mounted systems)
– CEP (of course) increases with target distance.
Very good points and very technological ones (unlike some hurraaay poster that swallow everything without thinking more deep about the subject). If the bomb has absolutely no extra guidance devices incorporated inside, the plane has to drop it at a specific location in the air, based on all the initial parameters, including the speed of the given plane and it’s angle of movement versus the target. This is pure physics. If the plane misses that particular location in the air, the needed speed and the needed direction, the bomb will be off-target by a big amount, therefore it won’t that smart anymore.
Maybe the plane has some sort of “ejection device” that gives an extra impulse to the bomb and controls the direction in which this impulse is pointed (although, based on some pictures, it looks like most of the bombs are simply attached to the wings and just simply released).
Or maybe the bomb has something that changes a bit its aerodynamics (therefore the flight path) or small fins for extra guidance. Or internal small jet-engines, small impulse generators (small powder explosions perpendicular to the axis) or gyros well placed that start to spin in such a way to change direction of a flying object. These modules can be activated either shortly after release or shortly before the impact. I would tend to believe that’s the case and that this aspect is conveniently not mentioned here.
These extra guidance modules could be much cheaper than american counterparts. Because most of the costs in US go in the deep pockets of so called “MBA managers” and lobby people (swindlers) instead of the actual engineers. Maybe these module communicate only for short time with the plane itself or with a GLONASS satellite. They might derive their power from a small battery for a short period only.
If you really want to read serious stuff rather than half scientific and half amateur stuff plus speculations, here are some links about shell guiding modules called Compass (Russian ones) and Excalibur (the american counterpart). Indeed, the price difference is very big, but mostly because over 50% of the profits for the US case goes into “deep corrupted pockets”. They are used in artillery shells, but the principle can be applied to air-dropped shells, too.
http://survincity.com/2011/06/guided-missiles/
http://survincity.com/2012/05/right-on-target-russian-guided-bombs/
http://survincity.com/2012/09/whatever-shot-all-in-the-goal/
http://survincity.com/2013/10/ibc-compass-has-developed-glonass-navigation-2/
For specific answers you might enjoy reading word for word “The Dambusters” by Paul Brickhill.
That does make sense.. I saw a SU25 fire 3 missiles that hit 3 buildings and SU24’s drop 2 bombs which hit 2 buildings.. So it does seem to work.. What is even more interesting is, the bombs/rockets are dropped at the same time. Which I dont get.. If its a panted target you cant do multiple targets at the same time.. Like when they took out aloosh they took out 3 buildings at the same time. All the US videos I seen it is a single target at a time, but I have not seen the fat bombs the US uses which leaves a cloud a thousand feet up.. Even the parachute->rocket based bunker busters Russians use seem to have much smaller explosions, which is also weird, why use a parachute? and then use a rocket after it hits? Seen like 3 videos of those bombs with little parachutes not much bigger than the bomb itself..
mmiriww
“What is even more interesting is, the bombs/rockets are dropped at the same time. Which I dont get..”
But were they? Several bombs released a fraction of a second apart from each other would appear to be released at the same time. At the speeds these aircraft are flying, such a perceived “simultanious” bomb drop could result in quite some difference in where these bombs hit the ground.
A pic is worth a thousand words.. Dont piss off the Russians… Did erdo piss off the russians..
https://twitter.com/LowlandsSN/status/681865847074353152
Very clever and efficient. But it all depends on the GLONASS satellite(s). I suppose that, if a war ever heats up enough that satellites are destroyed, things will have gone past the point of no return.
Yes, but the destruction of GPS/GLONASS by any one side will be viewed as the initiation of WWIII by the other side. Also, right now only 2 countries could even contemplate such an option: US and Russia. China did some ASAT work too, but they just don’t have enough launchers.
please watch this video for satellite info –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYP2xpjppdI
from Tazhit’s article – very amazing.
Doesn’t it work both ways? If Glonass is taken out, within seconds Russia will take out GPS and that Galieleo stuff. So all Smart bombs will sit in their home.
The rescue of Syria by the Russian Air Corps and auxiliary troops, (which has enabled the Syrian Armed Forces to rally), is one of the greatest military achievements in history. It is comparable to the Russian victories at Moscow, Stalingrad, and Kursk.
I wish to post a short informational missive about a microcosm of American Political Culture. Today’s “NY Times” informs about Chicago’s Mayor, Rahm Emanuel, who was the American president, Hollywood Obomber’s -Chief of Staff (2008-2010). Let me translate the above sentence, to English. “Zionist Land Thief (and dual citizenship holder), Emanuel, directed the day to day operation of phoney, and unconstitutional acting (literally) President of the USA, Hollywood Obomber.” For 2 years, Emanuel directed (ran) the government of the United States.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/29/us/mayor-rahm-emanuel-cuts-trip-to-cuba-short-after-police-shooting-in-chicago.html?ref=todayspaper
In 2011,, Rahm Emanuel was anointed Mayor of Chicago, which is, after NYC, America’s most important city. Emanuel is a member of the Liberal Democrat gang. Shortly after his anointment (anointment in America, means= placed into political post after having real opposition removed, and, then winning an election against a certain to lose weak opponent – as will happen in the 2016 Presidential electoral circus, with the anointed H. Clinton).
As Mayor of Chicago, Rahm Emanuel has attempted to bust the Teacher’s Union and lower the wages of the teachers, and covered up for dozens of Police murders of, mostly, African Americans. So much for the differences between liberal dems and neo-conservative republican gangers.
Furthermore, Mayor Emanuel’s Chicago government has reportedly paid out more than $100 Million in settlements to victims of police brutality; while, in every case, the Policeman, who killed the individual, has been found innocent of any wrongdoing, and returned to work. Chicago’s taxpayers foot the bill for this legalized and well financed, terrorist brutality; Emanuel does not pay the victims out of his own pocket.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiQw8-wu4HKAhVLaT4KHc5jB5UQFggfMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fchicago.suntimes.com%2Fchicago-politics%2F7%2F71%2F167182%2Fcity-pays-heavy-price-for-police-brutality&usg=AFQjCNFbFHbtMbjpndRfs2Grvk3jHk9ntw&sig2=NwTh0nylAaotVmerOooeCA&bvm=bv.110151844,d.eWE
On to my home town:
The previous Mayor of NYC, Americas largest and most important city, Michael Bloomberg, bought his election by spending $1 Billion of his own money. He purchased his reelection, cheaply, by spending $300 Million. This true Zionist American Oligarch then proceeded to violate the City Constitution by purchasing a 3rd term.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=18&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiA3L-awoHKAhUKJCYKHfqZC9YQFgh7MBE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2013%2F12%2F30%2Fnyregion%2Fcost-of-being-mayor-650-million-if-hes-rich.html&usg=AFQjCNGCmjUew8KBY4MWNxzgAG4nEJ0k2A&sig2=INPK9wpDisKHshoRf83Ckg
And for flavor:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjt5bbWwYHKAhVH7yYKHd6rAtUQFggnMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2015%2F07%2F28%2Fnyregion%2Fformer-mayor-bloomberg-buys-london-mansion-for-25-million.html&usg=AFQjCNFbOESN70vp_T3v20fF-JZAT6Dv3Q&sig2=gddVwqvNPcfcDl_K_C4mgg&bvm=bv.110151844,d.eWE
These are 2 small examples of America’s phony ‘democracy.’ Moral Corruption, and access to enormous quantities of (apparently) Jewish money, are the only requirements for those who wish to establish a political career. Dual citizenship is common. I wonder what the other country Bloomberg and Emanuel have citizenship in?
*I admit to guessing with Bloomberg’s having a second citizenship, but no guess with Emanuel and tens of thousands of other important political and business Oligarchs.
Saving the best for last: Back to Chicago:
Because of the huge outcry from Chicago’s citizens about the city’s fascist Police Brutality, Rahm Emanuel and his family had to end their vacation -in Cuba- and return home to deal with the incredible anti-human scandal. Do you get it? Vacationing in Cuba. I guess the Cuban authorities have absolutely no standards for tourists, no matter how corrupt, or implicated in racist murders they may be.
I know the last question on your minds. Of course no politics was discussed by high ranking Zionist American Power Elite (C Wright Mills’ term), Rahm Emanuel, with members of the Cuban heirarchy. You all know that -No Marxist Lemonist Vanguard leader from the Cuban government would give Rahm Emanuel the time of day. Absolutely not. Under no circumstances. Can’t a Zionist American Oligarch Land Thief have a quiet vacation with his family?
For the Democratic Republics! Including the one we have to restore in America!
Your assertion that Emanuel is a “liberal Democrat” could not be farther from the truth. Emanuel is so far to the right that many, if not most in the Democratic party consider him a Republican. He is credited by many for pushing Obama farther than he otherwise ever would have gone in the conservative direction.
In addition to being a near-Nazi he is, like so many conservatives, personally nasty and duplicitous as well.
Well…. a lot ‘liberal Democrats’ now are pretty much Republicans wearing tutus and some makeup, while Republicans are now fascists with tutus and makeup. It just depends on which wing of the loony bin they sleep in before they go into the exercise yard to raise hell together. Eisenhower and Nixon look like liberal pacifists compared the psychos in government now. They might almost be Ukrainian politicians, and they are supporting those ‘Yats is our man’ there. I had to toss out some food covered in green mold last night — it looked like Washington.
Jack,
“Your assertion that Emanuel is a “liberal Democrat” could not be farther from the truth. Emanuel is so far to the right that many, if not most in the Democratic party consider him a Republican.”
Wake up! Get off the political labeling of ‘Right’ v ‘Left’ brainwashing. It’s not whether or not you are ‘right’ or ‘left’ that counts, but whether or not you are Right or Wrong. Marx is dead; leave him buried.
There are no essential differences in ideology or behavior between the ‘Lib dems’ (so called-left), and the Neo-conservatives (so called-right). Dems & Repubs are 2 branches of the same Zionist imperialist electoral circus game. No matter what the political gangs promise, or which of them is allowed to win the election, they all function the same; they all serve the same masters.
What essential political differences are there between Emanuel, (dem gang), and Bloomberg (republican gang)? Or Obomber, or Bush? None!!!
If you intend to vote for H Clinton (who will be the dem gang candidate in 2016), instead of any repub ganger, just say so. Or, if you support dem gang (imperialist-socialist-leftist Sanders, who has voted to fund both Iraq Wars, the War against Afghanistan, and the entire Zionist government budget, stolen land settlements in Palestine, and the Zionist military, not to mention the American military and 16 Secret Agencies, just say so.
Sanders is assigned to give hidden dem gangers political cover, as they can pretend sympathy for some kind of imperialist socialism, and pretend to be some kind of progressive, and then let themselves be ‘forced’ to vote for H Clinton, as she will be the dem gang nominee. And all dems know that-the worst dem ganger is better than the best repub ganger!?!?
Say it ain’t so Joe -er Jack.
Right vs. left certainly does still matter. It’s just that Republican vs. Democrat mostly doesn’t; I agree with blue about the distinction there. And that disease, of parties that call themselves more “left” but are right wing in every structural or economic issue, has spread to Europe as well; you look at “Socialists” in France or Spain or social democratic parties in Germany or Italy or whatever, and they’ve long ago given up and joined the right in kissing the asses of their masters with the billions.
The real left meanwhile is all but nonexistent in the US. But left wing thought is still important, because right wing thought can’t come to grips with what the problem actually is–what imperialism is actually for, for instance, who benefits and why. It’s all about capital and the bozos who have it, it’s been all about capital since Marx’s time and little has changed.
US did a fallujaha on ramadi.. By bombing the advancing Iraqi army they stopped them for the few weeks required to evacuate most terrorists out of the city and now they flew out the headchopping clerk of the outfit on their blackhawks..
The SDF only killed like less than 2 dozen IS troops at the dam and the city they took.. Seems the only ones fighting are the ones who dont have any place to go or were left behind and woke up to find everyone else had gone.
For a bunch of women haters they have used more than 85 suicide bombers in the last few months.. why the women would volunteer would be a good question to ask.. Which also seems more the the number of IS male members that has died fighting in the last few months.. and far far lower than the number of IS members who lost their heads at the hands of IS.. Maybe if you leave them alone they will just kill themselves off..
Thanks for making the New Year look more promising and for the early Orthodox Christmas gifts of knowledge.
Technology is a wonderful thing, even sometimes in the worst of circumstances.
The technology of love is a wonderful thing in all circumstances, and in vineyards of love, sweet wine indeed.
Very interesting low flying Russian attack helicopters rocket attack on IS positions in Mahin in the desert..
I dont understand what I am seeing other than they fire like 20 rockets at a time? it does seem to hit a large area..
https://twitter.com/Hamosh84/status/681869555774451712
US bombing in ramadi, huge explosion..
https://twitter.com/Hamosh84/status/681262165765033989
See the rats scurry once the bombs hit.. They only got like 6 trucks even with multiple bombs. They need a better strategy to take out so many trucks or bigger bombs.
Russian airforce targeting ISIS oil trucks on it’s way to Turkey again TODAY.
https://twitter.com/Hamosh84/status/680374109948260352
It depends on the size of the ordinance, isn’t it? The ideal way to take out Truck convoys would be Cluster bombs or Thermobaric ones may be.
Strafing would be most efficient but expose airplane to ground fire. An equivalent of the C-130 ground attack plane would be better since it can fly at a higher altitude. Armored helicopters with Gatling gun type cannon would be the best, but the oil tankers are too far beyond their range currently.
thank you
but??
EKATERINBURG, December 29. /TASS/. Russia’s Kurganmashzavod, the country’s sole manufacturer of infantry fighting vehicles, is balancing on the brink of full stoppage over debts for natural gas consumption.
READ ALSO Russia’s newest Armata, Kurganets-25, Bumerang armored vehicles to be fielded in 2016 Russian Army to receive another batch of Kurganets-25 platform vehicles in early 2016 Russian Defense Ministry to get more than 200 new BMP-3 armored infantry vehicles Russia’s land troops to buy 11,000 armoured vehicles and 14,000 motor cars till 2020
Kurganmashzavod, which is part of Tractor Plants Group, has been able to repay only about 20 million rubles ($280,000) out of a total debt of 55.5 million rubles ($780,000) to Gazprom mezhregiongaz Kurgan, a subsidiary of gas monopoly Gazprom. “Considering the payment, which has been made, and also a guarantee letter provided to Gazprom mezhregiongaz Kurgan on further debt payment, no new restrictions on gas supplies to the enterprise in 2015 are planned,” the gas supplier’s press office told TASS. Kurganmashzavod produces seven modifications of infantry fighting vehicles purchased by three dozens of countries and standardized chassis for various armament systems. Kurganmashzavod signed a long-term contract with Russia’s Defense Ministry in 2015 on the delivery of several hundred modernized IFVs to the Russian Army.
More:
http://tass.ru/en/defense/847583
Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:34
Foreign Planes Dropping Military Aid for ISIL in Kirkuk
http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13941008000580
TEHRAN (FNA)- Iraqi security sources disclosed on Tuesday that the ISIL Takfiri terrorist group has received military aid and other supplies dropped by unknown planes near the city of Kirkuk, Northern Iraq.
“After the US army’s special heliborne operations in Southwestern Kirkuk, unknown planes dropped military supplies and other aids for the ISIL in the Southern part of Kirkuk,” an Iraqi security official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, told FNA on Tuesday.
The official did not disclose more details about the identity of the planes, but said that it might have been US or Turkish.
map here is mid-2014, but any areas/borders vary depending whose version they want to show:
http://yalibnan.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Iraq-Kirkuk-map.jpg
A wonderfully informative article. Thank you.
US – dumb people, with smart bombs vs Russia with smart people and dumb bombs? : )
US people are no less smart than others. They may even be starting to roll back the MIC…
https://www.rt.com/usa/327395-darpa-mule-robot-google/
I see it that with so much corruption in the USA – that is USG/Big Biz but in this case with the military companies – projects like the F-35 are NOT first and foremost for the defence of the USA, but to make money, as much as possible. Consequently the contractors don’t care if the F-35 is a world beater, which it clearly isn’t, it’s about making money, and the Russians must know this, and laugh, while fear grips the hearts in the Pentagram, as they know their current weapons systems don’t match the Russians’.
So nevermind the difference in military budgets of the 2 countries, for the USG to really take on Russia (conventionally) would be hugely embarrassing.
Without getting into a long fight on who is pro-Putin or anti-Putin. I’m just going to post this link and shake my head in disgust saying, “Kudrin ,Karl, Kudrin”.
“Putin and Medvedev In Talks With Alexei Kudrin Over His Return”
http://fortruss.blogspot.ca/2015/12/putin-and-medvedev-in-talks-with-alexei.html
Very interesting and sound article. Thank you, Saker.
The following questions/observations come to mind:
– Apart from the use clever bomb aiming technology, it’s equally astonishing how long this relatively small squadron has been upholding such high rate of sorties since the operation began on 30 September. The aircraft involved have turned out to be really reliable and effective, absolutely disproving any Western narrative about Russian designs perhaps being good on paper but badly put together in practice. This observation pertains to all types involved, from the oldest Su 24 Cold War work horse to the newest Su 34 super high tech fighter/bomber. Russian aircraft engines in particular, much maligned in the West, seem to be proving their worth.
– Equally astonishing is the apparently small number of personnel that is present on the ground
at any point of time. Surely there is some rotation but that does not make it less astonishing what
the RASF is achieving in terms sorties flown and ordnance dropped relative to resources used.
– Even more astonishing is the low rate of helicopter losses. The only one lost was a CSR helicopter that flew into the midst of the enemy after the Su 24 had been downed. Now, compare that to the war in Afghanistan when Soviet helicopters were shot out of the sky at rates much higher than that. It would be very interesting to know what happened to make helicopter operations much safer. Are helicopters simply staying out of harms way? That, however, would appear to render them ineffective. So,what is going on here?
Are you implying that Russians are better engineers? Engineers in the free world have additional (and more important) variables befitting their excellence, namely the maximizing of profits of the offshore entities that produce said armaments.
Do you *really* think that *money* makes people more clever and efficient ?
I believe chimmy’s point was that when a company seeks to maximise profits they may do so at the expense of e.g. number of hours before an engine requires an over haul resulting in engines they need to be overhauled far more frequently due to shorter service intervals.
Are you implying that Russians are better engineers?
I am implying no such thing. I am clearly and unequivocally saying this :-P
As for your profit motive, I will reply by one short word: F-35
Now go to your room and play there, and let the adults talk, okay?
Are you being unfair?
I’m no engineer, but I recall a conversation with a very talented one in the UK who stated that present day engineers could design and build, eg, a road traffic bridge to carry 50k vehicles per day. Said bridge would require rebuilding or reinforcements with traffic in excess of 50k per day. Victorian (UK) building would have over engineered. Perhaps US commissioning policy needs to be addressed? Maybe the engineers are just as talented as in Russia?
I think he was being sarcastic.
I’m pretty sure chimmy was being sarcastic. You missed the joke if I’m not mistaken.
To fit a similar equipment like the one from the picture inside a plane, it will need to be done with good quality and performance small-volume electronics.
I have a hard time to get an idea about the status of microelectronics industry in Russia. From public information, I see that they mostly advanced by doing partnerships or getting some licences. Compared with cutting edge microelectronics in the west, Russia is still quite behind.
They don’t have their own home-grown microprocessor(s), they don’t have their own technology to fabricate IC’s (they got some technology from ST Microelectronics and AMD through partnerships). I keep hearing about Thales avionics in their planes, but Thales is mainly a french defense company. How good are Russians at making their own high quality sensors (infrared, temperature, optical …) ? Let me know if you find out real good information about that (and not the final systems).
What is the status of Russian home-grown software, hardware and robotics industry.
I keep looking as a reference point to the national owned investment company called RUSNANO, who strangely enough is ruled by …. surprise … surprise … Anatoly Chubais … the one who sent hundreds of thousands of Russians in their graves during the so called “shock therapy” of 1990.
Now he is a big hot-shot in charge with the cutting edge investments of Russia. What an irony.
Well, if you browse through the portfolio of Rusnano, you will see they are very much dependent on partnerships with mostly Germans, Americans, Israelis.
It’s hard to believe it, but there is a theory that Jews secretly enabled the impressive recovery and growth of Russia during the last 10-15 years. They helped Russia in secret, while undermining USA in parallel. They also ignited the industrial and technological transfers to China (these are facts and not speculations) with whom they struck a deal many years ago (this is a speculation). Wasn’t the Jews who make sure Soviet Union and USA are kept in balance for the entire period of the last century ? Seems less known, but it was them who pumped money in the industrialization of Soviet Union (read the research books of Antony Sutton). There are some proofs that entire factories were built in Soviet Union by american engineers and corporations.
In the end, for a bit of intrigue, do some research about Astana, the new capital of Kazakhstan. This city has a rather enigmatic architecture and symbolistic (all religions of the world have some representation there). I think I did read here that Nursultan Nazarbayev was one of the ideological founders of Eurasian Union. The geographical location of Kazachtsan is also quite good in the case of civilazational shift from USA plus West Europe towards Euro-Asia.
What if everything we see now in geopolitics is mostly a show of smoke and mirrors to hide other “tectonic movements” ? Is the war in Syria really about that silly pipeline from Qatar … ?
Your comments are just another trite version of the Obamma theme “They don’t produce nothing!”. It would seem obvious that they do produce remarkable weapons and space technology – but most of all – the average Russian has more gumption and courage in their index finger than most yanks could ever aspire to.
DavidB, where did you see that I wrote “they don’t produce nothing”?I asked clear questions and gave clear and documented examples. I asked clearly about manufacturing semiconductors.
I am not blindly praising USA, but they still have a technological advantage and have a system that produces cutting edge innovations, no matter how weird that might seem.
Chinese and Indians (best allies of Russia) are still flocking to USA in their hundreds of thousands, it’s a fact. Why they don’t go to Russia. That’s something this website should answer.
The implication that the Russians cannot produce high technology was quite clear in your posting. As far as Chinese in Russia go I provide the following quote: “The Moscow Carnegie Center, the only organization to launch an independent study, claimed that there were about 250,000 Chinese in Russia in 1997. The Interior Ministry has claimed that there are 2 million. Other estimates place the Chinese population at 5 million. ” I cannot speak for Indians but I do know there are huge numbers of Asian immigrant workers in Russia. Americans have this ridiculous view that they are the centre of the universe and that no other country is even worthy of comparison. The actual truth is that you enjoy your privileged position solely due to the fraud that is the petrodollar. Once this has gone the USA will not be able to spend printed dollars ad nauseam and believe me – that’s when the game will be up.
I do not deny that the USA does produce high tech innovations but you also have problems putting these innovations into workable and most importantly reliable weapons systems that can operate under extreme adverse conditions. There appears to be a fixation that “high tech” can solve all problems and grant the US unassailable superiority in all weaponry. This may have worked against pissant Arab states but I believe you will get a very big shock if you ever take on Russia and China.
It have no matter whom design and produce microships.
The Russians can get them from Asia. And they do know how to put them together and create a weapon system.
They also know how to write software.
People whom think production microships matter is living in la-la land..
Another cliche, every body laugh at Russian car.
But as far as military hardware goes, T-90 and how robust they are adverce climate condition is astonishing.
Dismissing how critical is to manufacture your own microchips proves that you live in the la-la-la-land … Without the complete set of registers and compilers that can only be created by the ones who make those microchips, you are blind in using them. I did some research lately and even Rogozin acknowledged how critical is the semiconductors industry for Russia space, military and industrial complex. For their space program alone in 2014 they acquired from USA about 2 billion $ worth of integrated circuits. They made priority number one in 2015 to replace microchips with home-produced ones (although I am yet to discover what kind of IC designing SW tools they are using because the professional ones belong to american companies only). For your own personal enlightment, most of the IC’s from China are produced by subsidiaries of american, european and taiwanese companies (even if it might be written Made in China on them). China tried to create their own semiconductor companies for the last 10 years with modest results. Now they are desperate to buy some american semiconductor companies from the open market, but someone is keeping a close eye on them and is not allowing it. Microchips are the foundation of every high-tech system: come up with some improved performance or new functions embedded inside and you can shake an entire branch of high-tech products. If the american companies will pull out of China over-night, the Chinese economy will tank like a rock. But the fact that they don’t move out (in fact, it’s the opposite: they invest more and more) despite starting salaries being already only 2-3 times lower than in USA (but already much higher than in Eastern Europe, for example) speaks a thousand words about what is really going on behind the scenes. What game is China playing and what role that she have ? Coming back to Russia, they finally placed huge resources to make 2 home-grown microprocessors/microcontrollers: one is Elbrus (using proprietary architecture) and the other is Baikal (based on ARM). We’ll see how the flashing star Elbrus does in mass production (using TSMC from Taiwan).
When I see amateurs like you and others commenting here with so much confidence although they know nothing, I start to doubt very much about the true quality of what is said around here.
@MD and others commenting on Russia’s microprocessors or lack thereof.
First of all Russia has always made their own semiconductors for obvious reasons.
Second, why reinvent the wheel when you can reverse engineer whatever, this is what Chinese have been doing since the original IBM PC in 1980.
Jump forward, 30 or so years. Since the advent of Open Source Linux everyone started using this since everyone has access to the source code, which can be modified, and I do not doubt that some countries circumvent the GPL licensing and create their own unpublished code.
ARM core is nothing but a software, which is proprietary and therefore many companies, countries buy the license to use the idea. After they buy the license they dump this on their own silicone (chip- PLD => Programmable Logic Device) which contains all sorts of additional peripherals, which are required for the application. And ARM based devices can be extremely fast.
As a point of interest I will add, that IEEE annually released the data on member’s salaries, and here is a clincher in the early 2000’s the highest paid were Iranian educated people. I do not know how is it now.
Regards
@MD
I think you are wrong, because as far as I know, Chinese government owns majority shares in all the western subsidiary companies in China. And the Chinese know-how (employees) stays.
How cost effective would be to pull out all the heavy equipment back? Not to mention misplaced document copies.
There are dozens of companies making microprocessors.. The big ones are in the US but that does not mean others dont make them. And it is true the US spends a lot of money on advanced design and process. But the consumer and business environments are entirely different than military or space applications. China might not be able to make super computers.. Which require advanced microprocessor design but for anything else they are far enough. Taiwan is much further ahead than China and so is Korea.. And in some areas Korea is even more advanced than the US or Japan. It is the cost that makes it difficult for anyone to break in. It costs exponentially more to make a new design than the old one before it. So by now the cost is like 500 billion $’s for next gen microprocessors.. Who has that kind of money? Not even Intel.. But you can use CPU’s from 10 generations ago to do pretty much everything. The Chinese are using intel cpu’s for their super computers and so are everyone else.. The US can stop that.. But then in 10 years you will see others catching up. But Intel also sells tens of billions in CPU to china.. By not selling, they are also shooting themselves in the foot.. that 500 billion has to come from somewhere… And software like anything else can be developed.. Decades of experience does matter but not as much as you think.. China at one time was the most advanced country in the world, Then India was.. Europe until the last 300 or so years was on the levels of undeveloped Africa.. And in 100 years they over took everyone else and subjugated the planet. True that neither china or india had any wish to rule the planet so we will never know if they ever could have. But their armies and technology was more advanced on an exponential scale compared to europe.. And every western military officer learns about some 2000 year old dead chinese guy to learn basic military strategy..
See it is not just the US that got to where they are.. Everyone else helped.. China is 2nd largest market for Apple.. It is not just China that will tank…
@mmiriww
So true. Let me add that currently China owns the fastest Supercomputer in the world, as well fair share of the top ten ones. Keep in mind that most of those modern supercomputers use Linux in parallel processing mode coupled with extremely fast blade computers (blade is just an expression for panel mounted computers designed for that purpose only”.
I just checked if I am spreading falsehoods. Luckily for me I was correct the stats are here:
http://www.top500.org/lists/2015/11/
You realize that the USSR landed a robot on Venus? Actually 2 of them that took pictures.. The only pictures we have of the surface of Venus..
Where is the US probe? For some reason the US thinks it can colonize a planet and make it into another state using the laws of the sea.. So they are after mars..
The USSR had, and Russia still has, world class capability in opto-electronics.
As for microcomputers – the SoCs one finds in Chinese landfill android smartphones could probably suffice. Although, designing and small-scale manufacture of custom SoCs is no biggie these days, unless you want to use bleeding edge processes.
Mass production and obtaining high yields and low cost is much more difficult. And the Americans are not particularly good at that either – TSMC beats Intel at that (one reason ARM remains dominant in the smartphone).
http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/73032/
Russian 8 core 1.4Ghz 250 Gflops processor of their own non-Intel architecture
Only Russian-made components are allowed to be used in Russian weaponry for their own military.
haha
Baikal-T1
Эльбрус-16С
;)
Great piece, Saker; you don’t always need sophisticated kit to make a big leap forward in capability – not if you have a great idea.
You explained very clearly how the Russians converted old bombs to accurate semi guided bombs. This is a typical Russian solution – low cost engineering which explains how a country with 1/6 USA’s expenditure on the military operates in a cost effective manner far surpassing the yanks. I might add that with all their gee whiz technology the yanks still manage to miss targets and routinely bomb their allies?
What you didn’t explain is how the Russians manage to fly 3 times the sorties the west can. I believe this is simply because the yank pilots are over paid powder puffs. In a real war the human factor will tell – man for man the Russians will prevail over the overfed, overpaid, under-educated yanks – the Europeans will not even matter.
DavidB
The Russians having fewer “powder puffs” piloting their aircraft could well be factor in their higher sortie rates than pindos do. But I think the main reasons are Russian aircraft require less down time between sorties and the Russian-Syrian military intelligence people locating terrorist targets are better at their jobs than pindos and find more legit targets (IE: not weddings) for the aircraft to strike.
Ground crew, ground crew, and aircraft design. The easy part is flying. Much more in keeping an aircraft airworthy and in the air.
Correct. Russian aircraft have a much better mean time between failure to begin with, but they are also much more rugged and easy to maintain. Also, Russian weapons – all of them – are designed to operate in tough environments (dust, debris on runways, humidity, etc.) whereas western weapon systems, especially aircraft, are fantastically fragile. And yes, the Russian solider (including the pilots) are used and accept much harsher conditions than their western “top gun style” counterparts.
One more thing: normally, you put 2 aircraft per target, so they cover for each other. The Russians in Syria did that for about 2 weeks, but after that they began flying solo. They now even put 1 Russian aircraft for 2, sometimes 3, targets. This is harder and more dangerous, but this also spikes the number of hit targets dramatically.
Bottom line: these guys are some mean mofos who are in Syria to really, seriously, fight and kill as many Daesh freaks as possible.
Which reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRIsC764Nn4
Cheers!
The Saker
My thoughts exactly. Hope they have those S-400s turned on in case the Turks decide to have another go at backstabbing.
Loved the video
The problem of the US bombing indiscriminately, including their allies, is not a technological problem. They’ve been like that since WW II, when they were notorious for bombing allied troops. My Grandfather, in the Canadian forces in WW II, told me how when the RAF flew overhead they’d all cheer and wave, but when the Americans flew overhead they’d run for cover because you never knew what those guys would bomb. One time he was in a convoy that was camped in a square and some American plane started machine-gunning them; shot up one side and along the next before flying off. He was in the third side; different positioning and I might never have been born, courtesy of the US air force.
The problem is that the Americans don’t give a damn and they feel like they’ve failed if they didn’t bomb something. It’s a cultural/psychological problem. They’re going to keep on doing it until they stop being psycho cowboys.
that’s not fair. American pilots are returning to base without bombing Isis, so they are incredibly disciplined and show great restraint.
Hahaha … “powder puff”… :-)))
Remember when a single unarmed Su-24, using the latest Russian electronic warfare complex, totally disabled the “Aegis” combat management system on the U.S. destroyer “Donald Cook” on 10 April 2015 in the Black Sea – and then “buzzed” over the destroyer’s deck twelve times, each time simulating a missile attack on the target :-?
The poor “USS Donald Cook” then put its tail between its legs and fled in panic to the nearest Romanian port. Where 27 (twenty-seven) ship’s brave crew members immediately signed letters of resignation :-!
Illustrates to you the stuff … er, puff the Land Of The Free servicemen are made of :-)
Very interesting and obviouse once you think about it, keep up the good work and let’s hope the SAA & RasF finish the scum in Syria sooner rather than later
Thanks for the description of how SVP-24 works, Saker.
USA Dumb bomb kit: $25,000 per bomb, say 10,000 bombs, bombs cost zero: 25,000 x 10,000 = 250,000,000. 1/4 of a billion vs Russia reusable plane kits. What are they per plane?
Breaking news! ( heard in the radio news, Basque Public Radio):
“Shootout against tourists in Daguestán”.
“The Russian government has decided to close the Red Square ahead of the New Year celebrations, arguing that it is to record a television program, but it is believed to be because of the threat of terrorist attacks”.
Sputnik article today…fith gen rus plane to be fitted with new advanced photonic radar systems……..
This is the only note I could find about the shooting in Daguestan ( silence in the Russian media ). It appears to have happened around last midnight:
http://www.efe.com/efe/espana/mundo/un-muerto-y-diez-heridos-en-tiroteo-contra-turistas-daguestan-rusia/10001-2800417#
Thank you Saker for very interesting article!
So much for western clichés about Russians – that they are lazy, inefficient, un-organized, not creative, can’t make anything, e.c.t., e.c.t….
I think that single, biggest difference between Western and Russian Military is its intended use – Western Armies are made to fight colonial wars in far off lands, against poor people without means to defend themselves. So westerners have a luxury of undisturbed logistical support. That’s why they can afford to use delicate machines needing a lot of maintenance in the specialized workshops in ideal conditions.
Soviet \ Russian military was always prepared for defensive war on own territory. In such war military technology must operate in the improvised \ primitive circumstances. It must be robust, simple to operate, repair and maintain.
Here is interesting documentary about Russian Air Force seen through American pilot’s eyes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fkvTyCs8tM (Mind you, it was filmed during Jeltsin years, the deepest crisis…).
I also notice that Western Air Forces concentrate last few decades on the development of multi roll Aircraft, while Russians have more types of specialized planes.
It is interesting to compare effectiveness of NATO bombing of Yugoslavia with 1000 airplanes, against Russian bombing in Syria with 50 planes…. It might cool some western hot-heads a bit…
@ biggest difference between Western and Russian Military is its intended use
The biggest difference has been defined by Viktor Suvorov in his 1982 book ‘Inside the Soviet Army’. He used to teach at a certain military school in America. He presented once the American tank such and such, and the Russian tank such and such and asked the audience to tell which one seemed better. The Americans invariably designated the American one because it had more space inside, had automatic transmission, air conditioning, etc. whereas the Soviet one was less comfortable inside, had manual transmission, no air conditioning. Instead, it could carry more rounds, the narrow space permitted a better maneuverability of the gun, the absence of air conditioning installation lightening the tank, permitting additional armor, the manual transmission permitting to restart the tank manually if stalling, the simplicity of the design permitting the use of spare parts taken from other wrecked in the battle. But it was very uncomfortable! the reply came. “Gentlemen”, replied Suvorov, “that’s the difference, Russians do not conceive war as a walk in the park”.
How does this device improve the sortie rate?
Saker, didn’t Russians had systems similar to SVP-24 even before?
I was watching documentary the other day about MIG-25 and pilots description of automated bombing routine sounded similar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pxtQhOFqAU
So long as there is competent control of the airspace the SVP system is a great solution. But quite honestly is like the Norden bombsite upgraded to GPS. The disadvantage is this. If the OP For that is to be targeted can reverse engineer the solution set of the system. Hence any flight pattern conforming to the ‘window’ can be engaged and presumably destroyed before reaching the ‘window’. For the defender that is computational child’s play.
The solution set can be infinite, though.
@MD: I won’t waste much time on you.
You can thank Davidb (who is totally correct) that he is so polite and patient.
Russia and China are well-known for their IT hackers btw.
Many of whom go to the West due to fake FIAT $$$, because the only “value” behind these dollars after the fall of Bretton-Woods under Nixon is the brutal US-military’s occupation of most of the globe. And only that’s the reason why those average citizens believe they need dollars rather than Rubles, because until now they can buy more of the more or less useful materialistic stuff from one of the bloody dollars, than from a Ruble.
_They_ all together from all over the world co-authored all your wonderful “smart” western gadgets. So it is naive to think these technologies were solely engineered by “Americans”.
p.s. Many foreigners are also moving into the opposite direction: Because Russia still has highests standards Universities which were already famous during Soviet titems. And although the quality of teachings is way higher, prices are only a fraction, compared to the USA (were every student is a JP-Morgan slave no matter if he ever gets a degree or not).
For advancement you need money and in that respect the US is so far ahead as #1 it is not possible for anyone else to even come close.. Just small universities like texas A&M have like $50 billion in reserves.. Forget the likes of Stanford who have their own particle accelerator.. Now that dont mean they are the best, but they do spend a lot of money in research compared to everyone else. A lot of ideas were developed elsewhere but they were made practical by the US because they had the money for it. The Stealth technology is a great example.. How does a guy from india get to develop something almost impossible by using a trillion bucks to develop it.. Dreams like that can only become reality in one place..
Just as an example, the Indian IIT is a top class institution, it accepts only the top 0.01% of students.. Their courses are on par with any other top university.. Except they are missing one thing.. Money.. for research… Hence their quality has been dropping.. Compared to MIT or Caltech which spends billions on development… So there is no way for IIT to ever catch up with MIT and the like even if the students are maybe more capable.. They just dont have the funds to experiment with out of this world futuristic technology.. And unlike some high school of Hispanics and blacks beating them well…
On the other hand a place like Saudi Arabia seems to have some of the top universities in the world.. They are funded by private sponcers.. Who can hire the best from everywhere.. So the quality of education is top notch but they have limited number of students to work with. But some of them are also top notch, I had never seen people who got 4.0 gpa’s before.. They only got 3.8 in SA but 4.0 in the US.. So it shows that spend enough money and it does matter.. China seemed to have learnt this.. They are spending vast sums of money to develop students aptitudes and innovations. Ofcourse they cant ever dream of spending the amounts that the US and SA spends per student.. Many US companies became so rich by patents which the university sells.. And last year I saw some guy donate over 200 mil to the university,Duke university is not even heard of by many.. But even they have like $20 bil in reserves..
Now maybe you get an idea why the US is so hell bent on copyrights and patents… The very same places which educate their population makes a killing on the work of students and staff.. and everyone in power went to one ofthose very same schools.. And thats another thing.. Unless you also went to the same school, forget about getting into upper management.. Even the worst will fly past you if you went to the proper education system..
http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings-articles/world-university-rankings/brics-countries-qs-world-university-rankings
It is like the story of the T-34 tank. The T-34 possessed an unprecedented combination of firepower, mobility, protection, and ruggedness. Although it was “inferior” to the German Tigers, its very simple design (like the later AK) permitted to be produced in vast quantities, at a quick pace and low cost and annul any “superiority” of their German better counterparts. Most interesting is that the Germans had no clue that it was produced and its appearance on the front-line was a total surprise. It was then, as today, the delusion that Russian military, science, technology were just hot-air balloons (did not the “West” always dismissed Russian achievements as “Potemkiniads”? and always at their own peril?).
SU34 dropping bombs, from release to hit…. takes 20 seconds or so..
Moment Russian SU-34 warplane carried out airstrikes on Sheikh Maskin town, Daraa – Dec 29/2015
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5NCvJ0-BRI
Russian resurrection machine.. Rumors of cheney and mccain already booking flights..
Russian man gets drunk with friends, drops dead, miraculously comes back to life inside the morgue freezer, and then heads off to drink (again) with friends who were mourning his death. Upon opening the door and seeing his dead drinking buddy alive and well, one of the men fainted, the paper reported.
http://mashable.com/2015/12/30/dead-russian-man-comes-back-to-life/?utm_cid=mash-com-Tw-main-link#F3o_YbpYH8q8
T90 fires flares and makes TOW go off target… Guess it works…
Very Interesting video. Rebels TOW ATGM deviated by a white smoke. IR Smoke grenade?
Missile launched at 0:18, unidentified flash/explosion generate a white smoke at 0:29, missile goes down at 0:30 and explode.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff7Whq2j1Xo
It’s great the Russians are getting good results from this system but it leaves much to be desired. Even the cherry-picked vids shown by Russian MOD show mist bombs missing their targets by plus or minus 50 meters, often more. The Russians try to compensate with multiple strikes, or by bracketing the target with several bombs from ine aircraft but this isn’t particularly effective. Watch those strike vids closely, you’ll see what I mean.
Far too many of these jihadi rats are living to fight another day. Still more effective than anything the US has done, although that’s a deliberate policy if this administration not a technical shortcoming. If our govt wanted to pulverize ISIS they could have done so already.
“… If our govt wanted to pulverize ISIS they could have done so already…”
Yes, they could destroy them but don’t want to. (US govt made ISIS).
Talking about military technology, I would say that this Russian system is very good solution for a mission at the hand. It is not perfect for all possible situations. If needed, they can use other systems for very high-value targets.
NATO systems allso have weaknesses. During bombing of Yugoslavia by 1000 aircraf, they couldn’t inflct any serious damage to YU Army. (But they were very succesfull in destroying YU infra structure and terorising civilians).
They sure blew up a lot of decoys (balloons), though:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/377943.stm
Hey Saker,
I just stumbled upon an article in an Austrian magazine called Contra where they reference your article on the German language Saker site.
Get this: they explain that a Russian technology called SITREP is so powerful that the whole of NATO is terrified:
(Highlight is my own)
Your situational reports are being mistaken for the latest Russian technology – Darth Vader would be so proud of you!
Inevitably, they turn Russia’s increase in military power into an argument to increase NATO’s military budget (as per German NATO General Hans-Lothar Domröse), but by now NATO will point at anything to argue for a higher budget.
Cheers,
Marco
Marco, this was so fun. Unfortunately, this thread is quite old, so few people are visiting it now. If you like you can post it one more time in one of the newer SITREP or Military Review threads.
hahaha,with a relatively small defence budget,compared to that of the USSA,see what russia can make
cool read.
Dear Saker,
Thank you “teesicha” for your patient approach to Russian-American relations. It appears you have achieved a small measure of success as the Washington whiz-kids, who with absolute certainty “know” what Putin and Russia are after (world domination – not just equal participation). President Obama phoned President Putin to wish him a Happy Orthodox New Year (perhaps a few days tardy). Is this a thaw? Are we seeing finally what we have done in Iraq and Libya, even if one agreed with the WMDs or the advancement of free speech and democracy there. How wonderful and hollow these words ring, as we consider the average family of Joe Sandalmaker on the streets of Baghdad or Tripoli. Today he sits on a pile of rubble with occasional electricity and heating/cooking oil, and his family has malnutrition and little hope. Fourtenn years ago he and his children had a future and there was structure in their lives – even if there was a crackpot leader the US couldn’t in any way abide, but Joe had found a way to live with.
Saker, can we ever get it through these foreign policy heads that a multipolar world is inherently more stable than a unipolar one? Even Henry Kissinger believes this in his new book “World Order”. Please hang in there!
This is a typical example of the lateral thinking of the great Russian engineers. The therm ‘lateral thinking’ described by Edward de Bono in the book of same name.
Based on the abundant videos being proudly released by Russia of their bombs MISSING, I’d say the accuracy is pretty much crap.
3-5M accuracy? More like 15-25M.
their bombs hit their targets, the crosshair you see in vids from drones does not mark the intended target but the center of the view field of the drone. When the crosshair moves, it means basically that the operator is requesting the drone to maneuver to make the designated point the new center.
how did they hit zahran,if they’re not accurate?
Well thanks to the Russian, the earth still survives.
Shows more importantly that Russia utilises ‘technology planning’ to achieve a specific and superior outcomes via technology. They deploy their resources to achieve this and the end result is a workable and robust military system that serves a purpose – financial and other intellectual resources are allocated to that task.
The US uses ‘financial planning’ which is founded on a number of myths. The key one is that throwing more money and innovation/R&D will deliver superior outcomes – it will not (neither in the military sphere or business). The US Industrial Military Complex is driven by budgets and budget outcomes. The concern of corporations is to extract as much budget from the US taxpayer as possible. Hence the development systems that have a nebulous connection to military reality and what the enemy is doing – JSF, Zumwalt Destoyer and even carriers that are obvious targets for hyper-fast missiles, torpedoes, etc.
The Russians and US both have fine engineers but the two different approaches deliver very different outcomes.
Very interesting. Thank you. A novel russian approach.
I did some research on the SVP-24. You are right about the SVP-24 allowing accuracy that no bomber flying 5,000 meters above earth could do. WW2 bombers usually flew much lower and slower to bomb. I’ve seen videos of Tu-22M3 bombers flying far above the clouds, and they delivered accuracy that no bombers could do without such systems itself. During Vietnam, B-52s were flying so low that you can see the trees and the flames from the bombs. These Tu-22M3 are flying well above 5,000 meters, and their accuracy is more then sufficient to destroy any targets. It’s definitely a game changer for the Russians, and I bet it helps out a lot in Syria. We know the Russians don’t brag about their stuff like the US does. Even a leaked NATO report admitted that the Russians are delivering accurate airstrikes and resulting in more work than the whole US coalition combined in Syria
Unless I am mistaken most Russian bombing was carried out with the aide of drones over or near the target. Another dog source inputs for the bomb aiming device. Also unlike the US coalition the Russian Coalition would have had reliable intelligence on the ground supplied by Assads forces. Another input from the ground regarding wind speed and himidity etc. The US coalition had virtually no ground intelligence that was reliable.
Only the Su-24, Su-25, Su-33, and Tu-22M3 have been confirmed to carry the SVP-24. The MiG-27 isn’t even in service. While I’m sure the system could be mounted on the type if desired, the VVS don’t operate any MiG-27s, and there are relatively few export customers.
That’s really fantastic- russian enginiers
did great job!!! mathematical school in Russia always was fantastic … !!! They always did cheapper
but more effective than at west.
So, it’s a toss computer. The US has had these since Vietnam but the quality today is much improved of course. The USAF and USN have this functionality integrated into weapon systems/ fire control etc.