by Asia Teacher for the Saker blog
A failure to understand why empires decline is also why history keeps repeating itself. As the US elite led elections continue what lessons can the US learn from the Roman Republic about its own decline?
From the complex dialogues of ancient philosopher Plato and ‘The Republic’ in which he laments the end of Athenian democracy as it turns into an empire, the lessons provided include observations that progress is cyclical, not linear. That instead of viewing democracy as an endless development of improvement, societies exist in a time frame of prosperity, domination, complacency and eventually a decay which heralds a demise.
The inevitability of eventual collapse means Plato viewed democracy as a system which tried to prolong itself by whatever means possible, yet also warned of populism producing anarchy, in which an excess of freedom produces chaos resulting in the desire for an oligarchy to provide security and stability.
Similarly, in a desire to prevent the consequences of populist voting, Plato in turn echoed the warnings of his mentor Socrates and the pessimism of voting for an ideology that existed without the competency of education or any knowledge of consequences. In a country with a 14% illiteracy rate, does that sound familiar in the US as it starts to vote in charlatans and demagogues as returning Messiah’s and Gods, or indeed, in those other 20th century societies containing cult personality leaderships?
Ordinarily, countries take a millennium to evolve, eventually producing their own unique norms and values which in turn produce a general consensus of beliefs. Conversely, the United States arose as a designer created society against colonial rule by European monarchs and as a unifying force chose unrestrained materialism and greed within an armed population free from government interference. However, remove the materialism and opportunity for greed and the same anarchy appears in the US as it did in the final days of Rome. Indeed, the recent storming of Capitol Hill by the mob resembled an obituary rather than an event.
No doubt principled men, the founding fathers were also aware of the dangers of democracy, influenced in turn by the cynical philosophy of Hobbes and the uncompromising protestant doctrine of Calvin. Further, that the constitution drew heavily on the ideas of the Roman Republic in an effort to prevent a repetition of British monarchist rule including a similar senate and two man vice-president ‘consuls.’ Nevertheless, the fear of democracy ensured that “We the People” remained at a safe distance from government by an antiquated Electoral College of political representatives. This ensured the wealth and estates of the elites remained protected from both government and the alternative populist revolutionary ideas of that era. The idea that an individual could own wealth free from government interference and without the intervention of absolute monarchs sent by God was in itself a revolutionary idea.
Contrary to popular opinion, the founding fathers held a deep mistrust of the ‘tired, poor, wretched refuse and huddled masses yearning to breathe free.’ Founding Father Roger Sherman wrote that,
“the people … have as little to do as may be about the government.”
Meanwhile, Gouverneur (sic) Morris who wrote the preamble to the constitution went further and added,
“The mob begin to think and reason, poor reptiles … They bask in the sun, and ere noon they will bite, depend on it.”
A century later, Lincoln already foresaw the future when he noted,
“At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? If it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad …”
The ‘danger’ Lincoln foresaw is the systemic failure of a society using laissez-faire capitalist economics as an ideology in which everyone and everything becomes a marketable commodity.
The purpose of a socially engineered society was to produce a feeling of optimism, an invincibility not only of country or the future, but also on an individual level and this level of delusional optimism produced the cult behind the beliefs. We can call this the cult of the self, or the me, me, me society; the terms express the individual as a higher power dependent on materialism in which each attempts to create a status based on wealth. The failure to promote critical thinking turned an economic system into an ideology. Teaching people what to think instead of how to think is an indoctrination that removes the historical perspective and concentrates on the present. In other words, it removes politics and the causation of social problems and places the results onto the individual. Consequently, this in turn produces the beliefs of limitless opportunities, the sky is the limit, everything is possible and when it doesn’t happen, cult personalities appear as saviors and demagogues. Yet the language used to describe the illusion bears no resemblance to the political, social or economic reality.
Leaving aside the current myths of the U.S. as a “shining beacon of light” or the “indispensable nation”, weren’t the 20th century German, Soviet and British empires also considered exceptional in their era? The shared commonality of those who live within empires is an inability to understand they share similar characteristics and illusions of a superiority doctrine. Currently, the majority U.S. population are under the same indoctrinated beliefs as the previous others.
However, that eventually narcissistic and greedy politicians, bankers and corporations became status symbols of success and viewed poverty as individual failure was inevitable. Less than three centuries after its founding, the Wild West returns to American streets (and on other streets in the world), in which killing each other now resembles a national pastime, tent cities become the norm and health for tens of millions is a crowd funded commodity, in a country that has only been at peace for two decades since its founding. In a country that once sent man to the moon, Antifa ‘Red Guards’ and the cultural Marxist BLM patrol the cities as dissent becomes censored and half naked men walk the streets waving pink flags. Indeed, the recent events as the mob attacks Capitol Hill is more of an obituary than an event in a country in which Lady Gaga and Kim Kardashian have more followers on twitter than the total votes cast in the 2016 elections!
Eisenhower in his farewell speech in 1961 warned America about the threat of its “military-industrial complex.” Whilst Carter, in reference to China in 2019, told President Trump that the US is “the most warlike nation in the history of the world …” In effect he was saying that while the US had spent three trillion on needless wars in three decades, China had spent zero and that’s why it was racing ahead.
Can the ramparts of the Homeland Defense Act keep the barbarian hordes at bay and can the demagogues behind “change you can believe in” or “MAGA” save the empire?
The transition from a US Republic to a Roman Empire contains the same updated tribute transfers of wealth from nations in the form of the modern petrodollar and internally, the same political corruption and mob anarchy on its streets.
The ancient gladiator games now involve arming weaker nations, referred to by President Trump as “Sh**hole countries”, as modern day plebs weaned on government provided bread and reality TV show circuses cheer on the blood sports from the comfort of their armchairs.
In today’s Roman arena Iraq fought NATO and the US military assisted the Saudi’s bomb Yemen into pieces as the mob roared HOO-RAR. The president gave a thumbs down and American corporations led by Wall Street moved in to deliver the coup de grâce.
The modern day act of slavery is still alive and kicking as the Empire’s elite fill their industrial complexes with a slave army of defeated countries low wage foreign workers and their own incarcerated millions.
The Romans worshipped the Gods of Jupiter, Juno and Minerva. The US Gods live on Wall Street. The stock market is their altar and the dollar the idol to whom they pray.
The CIA replaced the conquering Roman legions that once enlarged the Roman Empire, producing a similarly re-occurring nightmare in its own backyard and in those of others across the world. Forgotten atrocities or dismissed as irrelevant? Moreover, the CIA is a large part of the military and industrial complex ‘swamp’ who help provide the U.S. with its first-world lifestyle in a post-industrial era.
In conclusion, from the great intellectuals of a previous era emerged the physicist Einstein, literary Steinbeck and NASA space scientists. Conversely, into the millennial pseudo-intellectual abyss devoid of critical thinking or empirical evidence entered beliefs, opinions and conspiracy theories.
The only hope left for America is to abandon its paranoid hatred, competitiveness against the outside world and indoctrinated beliefs of a God given right to rule it and find its place in the world community before it implodes. Or in a nuclear age, explodes. Historically, neither US polarized political extreme ever succeeds and remains the graveyard of empires.
Asia Teacher is UK citizen, retired teacher, English plus Social and Political Science.
Your article was spot on until the final paragraph:
“The only hope left for America is to abandon its paranoid hatred, competitiveness against the outside world and indoctrinated beliefs of a God given right to rule it and find its place in the world community before it implodes. Or in a nuclear age, explodes. Historically, neither US polarized political extreme ever succeeds and remains the graveyard of empires.”
This is unfortunatelty incorrect. The only hope for America is several generations of bankruptcy, where it is so poor for so long that it cannot afford to concern itself with outside affairs.
While I think the bankruptcy scenario is likely, I would hope that our elite as they see their grand scheme of control through digital currency, digital ID, agriculture and energy control, being resisted by world population and zone 2 cooperation, they do take the path to world synergy.
In addition, I would like to point out that the majority of the people in the US, the other 99% or even 80%, are not narcissistic, war seeking, individuals. We live in a society governed by a lawless govt, which is determining our path. We don’t like it, and have to figure out to wrest control back if we even can. I think the Afghanistan withdrawal and failure to defeat Russia and conquer the world through dna altering vaccines has woken up the world and I hope all start to resist the US goal of profiteering off all citizens of the world.
Great article by the way.
Yet, hope springs eternal in some corners. As I and many have not written off humanity, even though the dark period we are transitioning currently looks bleak. I can deal with a new economic structure. My main concern is if the west drops the nuclear option. We all die and the planet.
The US Declaration was written in 1776 to convince the landless farm boys and indentured servants to fight and die for the richest men in the Thirteen Colonies in their war against the British Crown.
When the war was won against the British, the US Constitution was written to protect the rich landowners from the landless farm boys and indentured servants.
Howard Zinn’s book, “A Peoples History Of The United States”, does a good job of going through what you describe.
In the history of the world, I wonder if any great power has come back after falling as far as the US has?
“, I wonder if any great power has come back after falling as far as the US has?”
Great question.
I guess it depends a bit on how one defines “fall”.
Take Rome (as the given analogy).
How many ups & downs did it survive? Many, many.
The “conflict of the orders” ( 500 – 300 ish, BC ), 2nd Punic War, Mithridates, the Italian war, the collapse of the Republic…. The list just goes on & on.
However, times have changed.
The US seems to be suffering dementia.
It’s elites are corrupt in all the wrong ways.
Worse – competitors are emerging slowly willing to ignore the US out of existence.
As they have realised, you simply can’t deal with a nation so willing to lie & cheat, & treat you with utter disdain.
So the US “fall” is undoubtably a real danger – & blessing.
The simple answer is No.
No great power in 500 years has come back once it begins its decline. The US believes it can break that pattern using the “scientific method” and due to its ideology, can never admit it is going to fail.
See: The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers: Economic Change and Military Conflict from 1500 to 2000, by Paul Kennedy, 1987.
Ray Dalio preaches the same point.
China has returned multiple times from collapse, occupation and balkanization.
The key reason is a strong Han ethnic identity.
The US will never reunify if it ever collapses because the peoples aren’t unified nor do they share a strong identity. It will resemble the collapse of the Roman Empire when it collapsed and fractured into the European nations.
Heterogeneous societies always break down into homogeneous ones.
” Antifa ‘Red Guards’ and the cultural Marxist BLM patrol the cities ”
“as the mob attacks Capitol Hill”
Are you sure about this? Those things looked more like media pseudo events to me but then I don’t believe that people have stopped conspiring.
Will the US accept the inevitable and decline quietly like the USSR and the British Empire before it, or go the way of the Third Reich as the politicians shout “confidence is high” and fight to the bitter end in a nuclear age.
I doubt it. I think only the skillful cooperation between Russia and China have a hope of returning the US to the successful republick it once was. And saving the world in the process.
Current events strongly suggest the latter. Plus there are still war crimes to sort out for the last twenty years (at least) of military activities, as I’m sure US leadership is well aware. The inevitable US collapse is guaranteed to be as long and messy as they can possibly make it.
The USSR did not quietly accept its decline, it imploded under failed coups, economic collapse and regional ethnic separatism.
Based on its support and participation in the war in Ukraine it does not appear that the British Empire has accepted its decline at all. One would also have to define when the British Empire ended. Was it the beginning of the end when they lost the war to their colony in America? Did it end with the Indian rebellion in 1857? Or was the end after WWII when it was clear the emerging superpowers were the USA and the Soviet Union? Maybe it was when the countries in the Middle East revolted in the mid-1900s. Whenever the British Empire ended, it ended because it could no longer control its colonies, not because it went quietly into that good night.
Most likely the US empire will end the same way most empires end, throwing a temper tantrum and then collapsing under its own weight. The US will not start a nuclear war because the bankers who control the US would lose too much money and investment possibilities in the countries that were nuked. You should not conflate the people in the US (who have no desire for global hegemony) with the globalist billionaires currently controlling the US.
sir you over think this.
the usa is a republic NOT a democracy. which is to say the public votes for representatives who then are suppose to represent them in congress. what in fact has happened and has happened to EVERY other republic throughout history is wealth concentrates upwards and eventually reaches a point where an oligarchy forms who then buys the representatives the people elect.
today its called campaign contributions, stock tips, etc.
in this way the oligarchy comes to control the government and its institutions and makes policy for their own benefit until the whole thing implodes.
its comes down to money and power for the oligarchy and little to do with other nations. greed is the name of the game and nothing changes because human desire never changes.
there is no repair for the usa at this point except government death and economic and perhaps currency collapse and then the people will slowly pick up the wreckage and decide how they want to reorganize themselves and what kind of nation they want to have going forward.
the story is the same over and over throughout the centuries, the usa is merely the latest cautionary tale.
Below just 2 snippets from “Asia Teacher is UK citizen, retired teacher, English plus Social and Political Science”
that prove beyond a doubt that he/she/it still has no idea what is going on in Slumville, USSA.
“the recent events as the mob attacks Capitol Hill”
“In a country that once sent man to the moon,”
One more: “Conversely, into the millennial pseudo-intellectual abbys … (of) opinions and conspiracy theories.
To: not you either
You hit it out of the park, scored a three-second mike tyson knockout with your post. Good job. I was waiting with great anticipation for his viewpoint about those evil 19 arab Muslims that not only did 9/11 but, magically, were able to crumble 3 buildings with 2 planes.
Sometimes the greatest gift one can give a writer or artist or scientist (etc) is a critical analysis of what he created. In this case, the author would be well-advised to consider how his own critical comment of others, viz., “pseudo-intellectual abyss devoid of critical thinking,” might apply to his own writing.
Plato means nothing anymore. The west is dead. That’s why the Democratic Party here in the United States can engage in all kinds of wanton and open criminality, acts that were unthinkable and unacceptable only a generation ago.
Forget about “Liberal Democratic Socialism” here in the United States. Forget about “Communism” here in the United States. Forget about “Totalitarianism” here in the United States. These just words. And they are meaningless. What is happening is much, much, worse. Forget about your words. None of this stuff can exist in the kind of pervasive, endemic, and epidemic chaos that is currently been let loose upon the world.
Yeah, you can say that the propaganda was worse back in the 1950s, but the United States was a local hegemony back then. The whole idea of “Total World Domination” was an alien concept to the American people and the west.
Back then the Russians “loved their children too.” Sure, the United States and the west only picked up where Germany left off after 1945 but “So what?” The United States and the West were still content to be known for being thought of as a world power; without actually being a world power.
Today things are much different. The United States and the west treat Russia and the Russian people as sub-humans. Where have we heard this nonsense before?
Confiscation of private property? Sanctions. Confiscation of a country’s wealth? Proxy wars. The Rule of Law? Harassment of private citizens? The hysteria of unrelenting lying, cheating, stealing, two-timing, cold-heartedness, mean-spirited, home-wrecking “loserdom.”
The United States and the west today: You will have a job (a house, a home, a family, inalienable rights, your money, safety in your property and possessions), until somebody doesn’t like you. And then you will not.
And we are supposed to be afraid that the Russians have nukes?
To blame-e
Re: “The United States and the west today: You will have a job (a house, a home, a family, inalienable rights, your money, safety in your property and possessions), until somebody doesn’t like you. And then you will not.”
Actually, the situation is far worse than you describe. If only it were until, “somebody doesn’t like you.” At least in that case you would be able to stay away from people, live your life. In fact, it is until the paper dollar is transmuted into CBDCs. At that point, the control over all people — all of humanity in the west — shall be so total that one will beg for the return of society as it now stands in its present deplorable condition.
A generation ago I wrote a treatise for a University class on the fall of the Roman Empire. My thesis devolved around the closing of the frontier where the minds of the people that were outward looking, now turned inward looking to find only hedonism and greed. When the mind turns inward to confront itself, it falls into a cesspool. While the frontier is open, people are engaged in expansion and development which draws the strongest, most durable and adaptive and fires the imagination of those in heartlands. When the frontier closes, imagination and new thoughts die, we are here again. There is no Hadrian’s Wall, nor Germanic Forest, nor Parthian’s to the East – but there is a boundary a few miles above us that is not easily breached.
See Moscow, third Rome and the idea of a Russian world. Funny no one here talks about what democracy is like in Russia or what’s wrong there :)
“See Moscow, third Rome and the idea of a Russian world. Funny no one here talks about what democracy is like in Russia or what’s wrong there :)”
The thing is, unlike the case with the Satanic U.S. “government,” Russia isn’t trying to take over the world; funny so many people can’t seem to grasp that important distinction.
That’s a judgement you’ve made based not based on fact, what is a satanic “government” even, just some bad guy spooky words. Fact remains every country has it’s faults, just because the U.S sucks doesn’t mean Russia is any better. One of these countries is literally fighting a massive land war and protests are completely outlawed, is this not a sign of something wrong or is that completely fine for you?
Are you referring to Ukraine fighting the land war and the protests are outlawed?? You didn’t answer the Harolds remark re:distinction.
The distinction made that one is a satanic government trying to take over the world is by far just an opinion. How much territory has the US taken from neighbours in last 60 years? And the West in general? You know the citizens protested against keeping colonies and reduced the size of their countries? Sure Ukraine is a terrible place right now, they cannot protest because they’re fighting for survival are you saying Russia is in the same state of existence as Ukraine. Both US and Russia suck here because they are expansive empires, you’re just fine not criticizing Russia and blasting US because of your bias. And just to confirm you are okay with Russia not allowing protests — because Ukraine doesn’t allow them..
Excellent article. I use the same references when speaking about the decline of the U.S.
I will add that a major issue with the creation of the U.S. constitution was omission of term limits for congress and the Senate. This would have hampered the ability of special interests to buy lawmakers and also create laws that benefit themselves. It also creates a mindset of aristocracy that the founders for the most part were determined to eliminate. Major shifts in foreign policy from the Boxer revolution, Spanish- American War, ect. It appears that the Federal Reserve act was nothing more than the special interests to wage war without the need to pay for it. Take away Fiat currency and the ability to have massive debt and the U.S. would not be able to have 700+ military deployments, unnecessary wars, CIA chaos, and unfettered power.
The education system in the U.S. fails to teach philosophy, history, finance among a massive list of other arts and sciences. The slaves were prohibited from reading so they wouldn’t be a threat. The typical U.S. citizen or should I say “consumer” is nothing more than a debt slave who actually owns nothing while thinking that they are #1. Hence you have Trump saying that comment about Haiti.
I tell my sons who don’t have debt but live modestly and don’t want for their needs. Who has more? The people who live in the McMansions and drive new cars all the time but work to make payments or you.
The only thing the American consumer has is believing all the BS being fed to them as they lost 50T from 1970. The sad depressed debt slave that is many American people only have their blood and circuses in the form of human misery of other countries because it makes them feel better about their sad existence.
I remember being at check point Charlie back in the 80s. The Americans had to have a class on how not to be an ugly American before there East Berlin tour.
Trump never actually said it, but Haiti is objectively a shithole. Look at a satellite image of the island of Hispaniola, you can tell where the border between Haiti and the Dominican Republic is by the obvious deforestation on the Haitian side.
Interesting thoughts/ideas, but not my cup of tea.
As a moral relativist, I don’t prescribe to the “moral failings” of a society as the cause of its decline. Both Rome and the US declined/are declining as a result of their economic decline.
I’m much more an advocate of Joseph Tainter’s “The Collapse of Complex Societies” concepts of its all about economic thermodynamics not moral failures. Societies decline because the marginal returns from investment in complexity – meaning the returns currently available – inevitably level off and then decline, while the marginal costs stay the same or even increase. It has little to do with bad decisions as there are simply no “good” decisions to be made.
It’s why societies in decline never come back.
See: “The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers: Economic Change and Military Conflict from 1500 to 2000”, by Paul Kennedy
The author might be surprised to read that Lincoln, whose party was a descendent of the Federalists, was very much aligned with the industrial elites in the U.S., supported unfair tariffs to protect northern industries, and even represented the railroad interests for over 25 years against landowners and other entities. See De Lorenzo’s masterful “The Real Lincoln.”
One thing that I pondered a while ago was what is the best type of govt. My conclusion was a Monarchy under a great King until the moronic heir takes over. The cause of the morons are usually the result of the hands off parenting by the monarch. Time is love it seems.
It seems the collapse of all forms of human govt. is eventually inevitable because of pesky human nature.
Everything comes to an end because of we are imperfect as human beings. When the virtue of a people goes away so does the govt.
Its interesting that you note “teaching people what to think instead of how to think is an indoctrination” and “the millennial pseudo-intellectual abyss devoid of critical thinking or empirical evidence entered beliefs, opinions and conspiracy theories” but fail to recognize that the government controls the education system in a rare nod to socialism in the US. The education system is not the product of capitalism, greed, or individualism. It is the product of governmental incompetence.
“The only hope left for America is to abandon its paranoid hatred, competitiveness against the outside world and indoctrinated beliefs of a God given right to rule it.” Its all the rage today among lazy bigoted opinion writers to falsely slander 330 million people in the US as if they all think and act the same. Are you including the people who immigrated to the US this year, are they full of paranoid hatred as well? What about people who came to the US ten years ago? Are all the black people in America full of this competitiveness against the outside world? Is it the muslims who live in the US who have the indoctrinated beliefs of a God given right to rule the world? If you came to the US today you’d be hard pressed to find one person who wants America to rule the world except in Washington, DC. The people in the US are the same as the people all over the world just trying to hold a job and raise a family in a decent house with opportunities for the same for their children.
Your best argument was that “societies exist in a time frame of prosperity, domination, complacency and eventually a decay which heralds a demise.” This is true and is based upon human nature. Once people become financially comfortable and no longer have to worry about their basic needs (food, shelter, clothing), they then become complacent, apathetic and ignorant. This then allows the worst kind of people, (the narcissists, the nihilists, the sociopaths and the psychopaths) to rise to power. Which ultimately leads to the collapse and end of the empire.
You don’t offer any solutions other than America should “find its place in the world community” whatever that means. A real solution would be to return to industrialization similar to what China does and what Russia is returning to now and what made the US an important nation to begin with. The benefit of industrialization is two fold: 1 – the people have good jobs that enable them to create something worthwhile and 2 – a country with useful products it can trade is unlikely to go to war with its trading partners. What we do know does not work is the current system that Michael Hudson calls ‘finance capitalism’ where an oligarchy of elites/bankers raids a country, sells off all its means of production and then exploits poorer nations to replace the lost production with cheap labor. Add in the dollar as the world’s reserve currency and the elites/bankers make more money by simply selling/exporting debt. The rich get richer and everyone gets poorer.
Is it likely that the US can escape its fate at this point? No. The “elites” have succeeded through their media and politicians in dividing the people so they are fighting each other rather than the actual people who have created the problems. Most likely, the US simply collapses under a failed economy and governmental mismanagement. The “elites” will simply move on to the next target country while the politicians will desperately try to hold onto their little fiefdoms. While there will probably be some attempts to change the people’s focus to external targets including potentially wars, ultimately the US will devolve into a Balkans like situation with groups of neighbors fighting each other and hunting down politicians and bureaucrats to extract revenge.
What emerges on the other side remains to be seen but the best case scenario involves a mix of an agricultural and industrial society. What type of government is largely irrelevant as they all exist simply to retain their own power. Only when someone invents a form of government that can keep the society existing “in a time frame of prosperity” but does not then lead to “domination, complacency and eventually a decay which heralds a demise” will we break the cycle. And that may simply not be possible thanks to human nature.
The author has many commendable points, but his unlabeled reliance on basic Marxian dogma leads to false conclusions. He wants the US to succumb to absorption by The Borg, and demand we abandon human nature for the global community.
Yes, the USA, Inc.’s global empire was a tragic mistake, much akin to other megalomaniacal forays of the past, but it really never served the US population, who were individually freer and more prosperous before the advent of those aspirations by “great men”.
I agree we need to eschew those trappings ensconced in Imperial Washington and stick to our own knitting, as it were. Engage in trade globally as mutually advantageous, avoid military adventurism entirely, and be a wise and sober friend to all nations of good will. Devolve power back to the states so that the people can self-govern, while leaving the central government the power to act only where there are genuine national interests, defense, matters of interstate commerce, consistently applied rule of law, etc.
Beyond that, we do not bow before a new global empire, that too, will fall of its own weight in due time.