This article was written for the Unz Review: http://www.unz.com/tsaker/the-donbass-is-breaking-away-from-an-agonizing-ukraine/
Tectonic shifts are continuing to occur in the political landscape of the Ukraine. Last week, following the imposition of a total blockade against Novorussia by the Ukronazis, Russia declared that she will from now on recognize the official documents emitted by the DNR and LNR authorities. This week, the Novorussian authorities have nationalized all the key factories of the Donbass. Furthermore, the Novorussians have now declared that since the Ukrainian authorities are not willing to purchase their coal and anthracite they will from now on export them to Russia. And just to make sure that they cover all their bases, the Novorussians have also declared that from now on only the Russian Ruble will be circulating in the Donetsk and Lugansk people’s republics.
Not to be undone, the Ukronazis have also taken a highly significant step: the Ukrainian Prime Minister has declared that he thinks that the irregular forces currently enforcing the blockade should be considered official border guards (as for these soon to be “border guards”, they have explained that for their main border post shall be called “nightingale” in honor of the Nachtigall battalion of the Nazi Abwehr).
Let’s sum all this up:
- The Urkonazis completely close down the unofficial border with Novorussia
- Russia recognizes Novorussian documents
- The DNR and LNR nationalize all the Ukrainian industry in the Donbass
- The Ukronazis declare that the line of contact is now to be considered a border
- The Novorussians declare that the Russian Ruble is the only legal currency in Novorussia
- The Novorussians will now export their entire production of coal/anthracite to Russia
- All the factories in Novorussia will no longer pay taxes to Kiev
I don’t know about you – but to me this sure looks like the DNR and LNR are cutting off their last ties to the Ukraine and the the junta in Kiev appears to go along with this plan.
In reality, this is all much more complicated. There is a covert war going on between the Ukrainian oligarchs Rinat Akhmetov, Igor Kolomoiskii and President Poroshensko and there is also a not so covert war taking place between the Ukronazi opposition and Poroshenko. There are also many unanswered questions left, including how and if the Novorussians will sell their production of coal and anthracite either to Russia (which Russia really doesn’t need) or through Russia (possibly concealing its real origin). This situation also begs the question of what the Russian banks will be able and willing to do to help the Novorussians. The sums of money involved are huge and there are many, often mutually exclusive, interests competing against each other. But I don’t dwell into that level right now – what is most important to me is the big picture and that big picture says “good-bye Ukraine”.
One can judge of the seriousness of these developments by the truly Herculean efforts made by the western corporate media not to notice them. Even the British Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Boris Johnson, who was in Kiev yesterday, was focusing exclusively on the upcoming Eurovision competition, and not on the dramatic developments taking place in the southeast.
In the Ukrainian context, the expression “never say never” is probably even more important than usual, but I will say that if what I think is happening is really happening, that is, if the Donbass is now de-facto cutting its last ties with the Ukraine and integrating Russia politically and economically, and if the junta in Kiev appears to have been unable to prevent the Nazi volunteers from triggering this crisis with their blockade, then this potentially means to very important things:
- The Ukronazis have given up on the concept of reconquering Novorussia.
- The breakup of the rump-Ukraine has begun.
The blockade of the Donbass was decided by a rather small group of nationalist leaders who never asked for, or received, any authorization for their actions from the junta in Kiev. Furthermore, the junta in Kiev never officially endorsed or even supported that move. But most amazingly, the junta never sent any kind of official police/military/security force to regain control of the situation. There was a group of men who, armed with sticks and baseball bats, tried to remove the Ukronazi crazies from the tracks, but they were quickly beaten back. Keep in mind that there are tens of thousands of soldiers and policemen deployed in the immediate vicinity of these volunteer units, but nobody, absolutely nobody has made a move to restore law and order.
Of course, the very notion of “law and order” is largely meaningless in a country occupied by a regime which itself is totally illegal. Furthermore, “law and order” are also meaningless in a country where might – usually in the form of a gang of thugs with Kalashnikovs – makes right. Forget “central Europe” – think “Somalia” and you will be much closer to the truth.
The Ukraine is a failed state, politically and economically. And, as a failed state, the Ukraine has plenty of armed gangs and even official armed forces, but nothing like the kind of modern and civilized military you need to take on the Novorussians who, far from being a failed state, are a young state which has just completed the modernization of its armed forces. The difference between the Ukrainian and the Novorussian armed forces is not just the result of Russian help, although they clearly played a major role, but the fact for the Novorussians having a capable fighting force has been a matter or survival from day 1, whereas for the junta this has never been a priority simply because there never was a military threat to the junta’s power. Bean-counters will tell me that the Ukrainian forces are about 2x to 3x larger, which is quite true. It is also irrelevant. What matters is whether they can mount modern, combined arms, operations and that is something that the Ukrainian military does not seem to be capable of.
What we are seeing today is not just a Ukrainian military which seems to have given up on the notion of reconquering Novorussia, it is also one which appears to be giving up on the notion of holding the country together. Right now, this is only affecting the Donbass, but pretty soon other regions are likely to follow suit, especially the south (Odessa, Nikolaev, Mariupol) which, by itself, could be wealthy and prosperous and which has no need whatsoever for Neo-Nazi rulers. There are even some separatist movements in the western Ukraine who want to get rid of all the pseudo-Ukrainian “ballast” and build a “pure” Ukrainian state in the only place where such a state has real historical roots: on the border with Poland.
This all begs the question of the future of Poroshenko and here your guess is as good as mine. The only thing which kept him in power so long is the support from the USA and EU, but with the crises (plural) surrounding the Trump administration and the political uncertainty in Europe, there is only that long which Poroshenko can use his western mentors as the base for his power. Sooner or later, somebody somewhere in the Ukraine (my guess is in Odessa) will figure out that the local power configuration is far more important to him/her than what the western politicians have to say. Again, Somalia is the example to keep in mind: for a while the western powers also had a great deal of influence there, but only until that power was successfully challenged and then everybody declared victory and fled.
Needless to say, the Minsk Agreements are as far from being implemented as ever. For the AngloZionists that enough of a justification to continue to blame Russia for it all. That will continue until the Ukraine finally implodes at which point the real negotiation will be “who will pays for the mess?” at which point Russia will probably declare that she is primarily responsible for the Donbass leaving the rest of the mess for the Europeans who, unlike the Americans, will have no choice but to pay. But that is still far in the future. Right now the question is how long can the agony of the Nazi Ukrainian regime last?
Alexander Zakharchenko predicted yesterday that the Ukrainian state would collapse within 60 days. Maybe. My personal gut feeling is that this might take quite a bit longer, especially considering the momentum of such a large country. We should also never discount a possible large-scale Ukronazi attack on Novorussia for no other reason than an expression of blind and dumb hatred. Should that happen the goal of the Novorussians will be to free the parts of the Lugansk and Donetsk regions which are still under Nazi occupation. This might be difficult – the Ukrainians have been fortifying their defenses for many months now – but I expect them to eventually succeed. At which point the West will blame Russia again (what else is new?).
Irrespective of how long this agony will last, there is no doubt in my mind that it has begun and that it is irreversible. It is actually quite remarkable that it took so long to bring about this last phase. For many months already we had many minor indicators and signs that thing were not going well, but with the de-facto separation of the Donbass and its gradual integration into the Russian economy we are witnessing a qualitatively new phase in the disintegration process of the Ukraine.
The Saker
PS: Today Alexander Zakharchenko has announced a total blockade of the Ukraine by the Donbass. The practical result from that will be that Novorussia will completely cease to pay taxes to the Nazi-occupied Ukraine.
> This week, the Novorussian authorities have nationalized all the key factories of the Donbass
Good news, good article, thanks for summing it up.
“coal and anthracite either to Russia (which Russia really doesn’t need) or through Russia (possibly concealing its real origin)”
-Tthis is a bit interesting, I considered that as well, certainly Russia does not need anything Donbass is selling, so how would Russia take Ukraine place? Would Russia buy things from Novorossiya even if they did not need it? Wouldnt that harm local workers in Russia?
Sorry for jumping in with off topic,
but this is HUGE breaking NEWS:
Noxon is forgotten with Watergate,
now we have Obama tapping Trump tower!!!
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/837994257566863360
So, Barrack, get ready for Guantanamo!
The Russians resell it back to Kiev for a markup and split the margin with a Ukrainian oligarch
One of America’s key interests in taking over Ukraine and the Crimea was that 1/3 of Russia’s military equipment is / was manufactured in the Donbass and Lughansk regions.
The taking of Ukraine was part of a multi-faceted Anglo demolition of Russia’s trade, currency, pipelines, standing and public profile, allies, armament industry and re-armament capability, whilst simultaneously taking over mineral supply control to Russia’s largest customers.
It failed in every single instance. Hilarious, if it weren’t for the ME holocaust etc that the abominable plan necessitated.
And too bad that victors write history.
Coal is a good source of energy for industry, which can be renewed. Donbas can make and sell high end air rifles, motorcycles, quality handguns, manufacturing machinery and tools, snowblowers, generators and electronic power supplies, trombones — about anything it wants to. There are workers there who understand how to make things, and are resourceful and tough. There is also an agricultural sector, and other resources and sectors. It relatively easy for a determined people to produce things when they are no longer being shelled and shot at all the time.They will find things that will work — they found a way to defend themselves and hold things together against the empire and it’s proxies and nazis.
Additionally, Donbas can produce things for its internal market — economic prosperity does not depend entirely on international trade, of course.
It is common knowledge that Ukraine was a part in the Mongolian empire, the Mongols capture Ukraine already in 1240, and Ukraine having a population without firm identity quickly adopted the Mongolian ways, as late as 1482 Muslim Tatars from Crimea swept over Kiev and left quite a mark, that is why Ukraine today wants Crimea to belong to Ukraine, Kiev is longing back to the Asiatic-Muslim yoke.
Ukraine is in its core an Asian country that does not want to be connected with the European Russia, and is instead seeking to connect with western countries where the Muslim population is growing and anything “white” or European is hated and despised by the liberal elites as well as the rapidly growing Muslim masses.
Russia itself is the last bastion of traditional European civilization against the politically correct values streaming out from the west like pus from an diseased wound. With this in mind Russia is seeking an union between all Europeans with the ultimate goal of creating a “Greater Europe” as Putin puts it – from Berlin to Vladivostok, to achieve this Russia is working traditionalist parties in the west such as UKIP, Trump, PVV, SD, Afd, FN and so on, parties that are trying to overthrow the political correct liberal elites that controls the west, and hates European conservative Russia as much as they love Asiatic Ukraine.
Asiatic Ukraine of course is horrified of a unite traditional Europe, and is therefore working with the liberal anti-European elites as much as they can to destroy Russia and the plans she has with the traditionalists in W.Europe
I can’t say I recall anything about this — 1240, and even 1482 is before my time. I did not know that the Ukrainians were so old that they lived through and remember these things — most of them I see in the videos seem to be under 60, much less over 500 years old. The country I am living in would not even exist for a few centuries after that time, so its industrial production was not a consideration. I don’t think Europe had even invented capitalism yet.
“and is instead seeking to connect with western countries”
I don’t understand how Ukraine want to be an Asian nation by connecting with western European countries — who you say they hate. Or how Europe is now Muslim or Mongolian. It all seems rather convoluted to me and far removed from people being able to just live in a decent manner, or what any of that has to do with getting manufacturing and commerce running again.
Sorry to interject. Ukraine did not exist until 1917-1918, depending on how you define the Trotskyite act of map vandalism which ‘created’ it. Here is a link to the GeoCron project which shows this clearly. Enjoy: http://geacron.com/home-en/?&sid=GeaCron690354
Banderist rubbish. Ukraine was created by an act of Trotskyite map vandalism between 1917 and 1919, depending on who you believe. What you posted is utter nonsense.
Here you go, the GeoCron de-liar for Banderist disinformed people like you. Use it;
http://geacron.com/home-en/?&sid=GeaCron690354
I’ve always found it infuriating that the free republics continued to pay taxes to the regime responsible for murdering and maiming thousands of innocent people. Why that continued to happen for so long I can’t fathom. Stopping paying them is long overdue.
If recognition of official documents issued isn’t de facto recognition of sovereign authority, I don’t know what is. I agree it’s huge. I hope that Zakharchenko knows something we don’t and the crash and burn comes sooner rather than later but I’ve been surprised that the failed state of Ukraine has made it this long so we shall see.
I see this as a very dangerous time because there will be massive resistance to full blown statehood and that resistance will come from the filth in the US and Canadian governments. The EU doesn’t worry me so much and, hopefully, they’ll be collapsing right along with Ukieland. Of course the so called “international community” will not recognize the new state/s but screw them. I would also expect a ramping up of sanctions that Russia better be ready for.
It’s getting close to now or never for other regions in Ukraine. I’ve never been able to gauge what the level of resistance really is or if whatever there is can translate into anything like a viable force willing to fight for their freedom. I’d like to hear from someone in Ukraine to see if they have any idea.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X10sABRVQs&feature=youtu.be
I”m happy to offer some hard evidence. Over 1000 people marched in Odessa on Feb. 23. There were lots of red communist flags, lots of Odessa oblast flags (red-white-yellow), some Russian flags, many flags I couldn’t recognize from Wikipedia, and just one Ukrainian flag.
Here’s what’s interesting about that march, and I think it’s new: Over 3/4 of the people did not have their faces covered, meaning they no longer fear arrest by the SBU. The courage of each of these marchers is hard evidence about what people want in Odessa. This 1000 people gave stronger proof with their presence, than any writer could provide. Of course this is just Odessa, but it’s a huge city with a major port where the Nazis never had support. Perhaps after Odessa, then Kherson, etc. There is reason for hope.
Unfortunately this does not gauge the amount of resistance within Ukraine, most of the comments under the clip identify it as a re-upload of a protest from 2014. As there has been no similar march recently, it could mean that fear has grown and resistance has dwindled.
It seemed much closer to 5 or 6 thousand people.
The Youtube comments do not support the idea that this video is from 2014.
I spent nearly an hour wading through the comments, using Yandex translate, and taking care to read the many replies. However, Youtube cuts out the older replies so I could not see all the replies.
I only saw two assertions that the video was from 2014, and one of them was from “TymchukArtCentre – Культурное АТО1” so obviously the comment is from a Kiev-oriented fan of
Dmytro Tymchuk who sits in the Kiev Rada and in the Ukie military. This ATO lover offered no evidence for the claim that it’s an old video.
In fact, I did not see any credible statement that the video is from 2014. No explanation, no nothing.
There were approximately 12 comments (I didn’t make a count) which ASSUMED the video was from 2014, but those assumptions are content-free. No one offered any facts. (Hard facts, soft facts or pretend facts, my standards can be very low when I’m starting to dig for the truth.) BTW, none of the comments seems to have come from Odessa itself.
About 95% of the comments were nothing more that emotion of the type: “Hooray for our side!!!”
along with free insults.
I only saw one comment which made me wonder because the commenter claims to have been in Odessa recently. He didn’t say the video is old. Here is his comment. The “Odessa (is) Ukraine !” tag line at the end discredited his comment as just more fact-free fluff. This is Yandex translate:
“Denis Хворостовский5 days ago
was in Odessa for winter 2016…everywhere Ukraine,flags of the right sector,a lot
of the national guard, fans of the Russian world murmur quietly in their kitchens….
Odessa Ukraine!”
The original, in Russian:
“Денис Хворостовский5 days ago
был в Одессе зимой 2016…везде Украина,флаги,правого сектора,куча нацгвардии, любители русского мира тихо бузят у себя на кухнях….Одесса с Украиной!”
If anyone saw anything in the Youtube comments that I missed, or if anyone has any real data suggesting this video is not from 2017, please let all of us know. For now, I still think the video is from 2017, and the Youtube comments do not give me reason to doubt.
Cosimo, as for your “hard facts” talk, make a simple experiment:
Replace 2017 with 2014 and search youtube, there the top 2 results are the exact same scene except uploaded 3 years ago, as sad as this is:
ОДЕССА 23 февраля 2014
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%D0%9E%D0%94%D0%95%D0%A1%D0%A1%D0%90+23+%D1%84%D0%B5%D0%B2%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8F+2014
Kirov,
Thank you for posting this information. The demonstration must have been in 2014.
I could have saved a lot of time if I had just used the search feature of Youtube instead of wading through the comments.
The 2014 Youtube is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRVUK2A0YKc
@Cosimo
Although the verdict seems to be this was 2014, I appreciate you posting it.
I think the people of Odessa have been terrorized by Right Sector and it will take a lot for resistance to get the upper hand.
Look, russian leaders are cautious, they always had to…
So they declared the recognition of novorussian documents is something temporary.
But still one question: seems to me there are plenty of donbass residents still living beyong the line of contact – and subject to all kinds of persecutions.
What about that stingy problem?
Russian aggression will most likely hit the news in a big way along with Eurovision. Great false flag moment there.
The Fed plans to raise the interest rate starting in March.
This will trigger the long expected global recession and they’ll blame it on Trump, BREXIT and Anti-immigration parties across the EU.
Also the US hits its next debts ceiling limit very soon.
nyt:
“Yellen, the chairwoman of the Federal Reserve, said that the Fed plans to raise its benchmark interest rates this month if conditions are …”
Then there are several major elections in the EU in 2017, starting with the Netherlands and France.
Juncker Has Meltdown While Debating Future Of EU: “Shit! What Do You Want Us To Do?”
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-03/juncker-has-meltdown-while-debating-future-eu-shit-what-do-you-want-us-do
It appears as if a perfect storm is our (no)future.
How do you like it on the Olympic? (The Titanic never [got] sunk. Titanic Conspiracy is REAL 2017 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRvMPc1KuJQ)
The Lady in question is doing what you do to stop a T-34 – she’s ramming re-bar rods into the tracks of the economy. Instead of a vulnerable tank, she’s going to stop the economy.
It’s political – she’s putting pressure, blackmailing Trump with a threat…since when does the Feb tell everybody what they’re going to do next month? But to what goal this blackmail?
War. She’s forcing Trump to countenance W3 – To go along with it.
Our intrepid “leaders” our ubermenchlich “elite” have absolutely no other plan because they have no other option.
When you run out of options, in Strategy, you either surrender or fight. And since everybody knows which you’re capable of, they plan for what you must do – the observers, “opponents” – see that their “partner” has only attack as an option…
Gee whiz! Does this mean that the attacker, who has been seen to have only one option, is doomed to lose the fight?
Usually. I suppose we might ask General Ripper, but he died at Burpelson AFB…right after he ordered “wing attack plan R”
If the FED declares war, it will be the war Trump has to fight and win. Sink the FED – if no other means are possible then by eradication of their buildings and assets. On the other hand, raising interest rates is a long-awaited move and desperately needed if our current monetary system is to survive. From whatever vantage point I look, the US is in deep trouble anyway.
See max kaiser, comrade – raising interest rates, which are essentially zero, will crash the dollar to trash value and stop economy flat. All ponzi derivatives will explode. That include “property values”… Unless…unless there is a victory. This “victory” is not possible. Ivan and the Chinese know what “America” has to do, and so they will prevent it. This is to say that while there “must be war” it also cannot be “won” by 4th Reich.
Yellen must raise rates at some time…and so Trump happens to be the fella…the fella that she’s blackmailing on behalf of the 4th Reich. He’ll probably go along, because although brave, he’s out of his depth, only marginally literate. And the men ’round him? Much the same, but probably somewhat delusional too – ie worse…less literate, less able…. I give it 4 week, Two weeks ago I gave it 6 weeks to “Max Q” the time when I expect things to go “bang!”
I agree that all Ponzi schemes will explode. They cannot but fail because it is their ultimate destiny. The interest rate sets the timing though. Therefore I take the announcement of FED officials as either testing the waters or hinting the money masters when to short markets. The central banks did test market reaction several times since 2008, but it would be no surprise if they are also deeply involved in insider trading.
Anyway, I guess we have to get rid of the money religion altogether to get out of this mess.
@ Kirov:
Yellen raising interest rates in order to crush Trump is a wrong conclusion from a very narrow analysis.
The Fed, plus all other interest groups, deep state, etc are fighting to save America’s financial empire.
All wars since 1970’s and in particular since 9/11 have been about protecting the US dollar debt system and bringing down competitors.
Yellen’s and Co.’s evaluation of interest rate rises are about the balance of local damage versus international damage. All US policy is built on a local/empire cost/benefit basis e.g. The US imposed, Saudi-led oil price crush killed the US shale oil boom, but the potential benefit – the crushing of Russia as per the 1980’s – was a prize greater than the cost.
Yellen has raised interest rates, and will do so again, because it acts as a neutron bomb for all other world currencies, re-enforcing the dollar as the primary reserve currency. All other currencies will bomb relative to the dollar. The local costs of doing so – housing, stock crash etc – are a price worth paying. Cos without the reserve dollar status, the US is nothing.
@ proper gander: Agreed, the US$-reserve/Bretton Woods/World Bank/IMF/BIS/WTO/SWIFT/etc. scam is all that keeps the US/NATO/Zionist Empire from collapsing due to it’s $200trillion world debt. This is why the US is so desperate to prevent oil being traded in anything but US$. But a wider view shows historically the Rothschild Empire will crash any economy if it serves their interests. If financial bubbles didn’t serve the banksters’ purposes, they would not be allowed to happen. It’s called Disaster Capitalism. And that sort of manipulation includes the previous WW’s. While not very directly connected (there was some business dealings between the families), it is an interesting item that the Rothschilds came to banking prominence as the last of the Medici overt political power was fading. The Rothschilds built a better Industrial Revolution banking mousetrap, Taylorizing it, where legions of functionaries simply “doing their jobs” insulated the ruling family from the required fraud and “wet work”.
The US$ is no longer a “neutron bomb” against “all” other currencies, just those primarily holding US$ paper as reserves. Russia and China have been stockpiling physical gold at bargain prices using artificially inflated US$ Treasury paper (plus they now have a parallel international currency/banking system in place which trades in local currencies, not just US$). The fact this dumping of US$T in the $hundreds-of-billions over the last couple years has not lowered the US$ is an indication of just how manipulated the international US$ Reserve currency system is.
That said, nether Russia nor China wants the world economy to be trashed by crashing the US$ if (and only if) there is an alternative to that and/or WW3. Only the shadow bankster Rothschild/Bilderberg/Davos crowd profit from their wars, all others pay the price in blood and wealth.
@ nice try
I agree. The Russian’s and Chinese, but mostly the former, are attempting to release the un-pinned grenade from the Bretton Woods bankers hands without setting it off. The Russians in particular have been extremely skilled and brilliant in doing this without giving sufficient cause for it being dropped at Russia’s feet. They are getting nearer to a hand over or compromise by the day, but there will be a war first, I am sure.
The alternative system is peaceful in nature: international trade agreements in local, state-owned currencies between sovereign nations is the best guarantee of peace.
Maybe.
Agreed, we must keep our energies focused on that peace, and bring as many others as we can to also turn their minds to it. If prayer can affect the results of random number generators, just imagine what 7 billion minds demanding peace and nothing less could do.
I just watched “Night Will Fall”, a documentary which completes the work of the photographers/movie techs who shot the horrendous footage as the death camps were found. The RNA of my grandfathers boils within me that the “war to end all wars” didn’t. Zimbardo and Milgram writ large, but Bernays’ disciples stepped in to be sure the horrific truth was withheld, or spun to meet the anti-Soviet agenda of the “banker’s wars” Rothschilds, Kennedys, Bushes, Rockefellers et. al.
What a different world we could be living in.
Imagine.
Yes. Eurovision definitely offers a “target rich” environment for “false flags.”
Lots of simultaneous “cover”/ distraction AND focus on Ukraine. Opportunity to revisit the reconstructed history of the Crimea Tartars (being the subject of the winning “non-political” | according to the rules | song)
Here’s an article about how the Georgia instigated hostilities were timed for when Putin was at the Beijing Olympics.
Also Sochi Olympics were cover for Ukraine/Crimea flare-ups.
Crimea, Georgia and “The New Olympic Sport”: Russia Bashing. The Fantasy of Vladimir Putin as “Vlad the Terrible” Ratchets Up…
By Felicity Arbuthnot
Global Research, August 22, 2016
Url of this article:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/crimea-georgia-and-the-new-olympic-sport-russia-bashing-the-fantasy-of-vladimir-putin-as-vlad-the-terrible-ratchets-up/5542068
And imagine if Russia wins Eurovision.
Seems to me Kremlin has finally had enough of Kiev and Putin is now speeding up collapse of Ukraine. Should have been done long time ago.
More likely indicates the increasing Trump factor with the Biden clan and insane McCain slipping past their “use by” date. If Kiev don’t hurry and collapse soon then there may not be a functional EU left to pick up the from the SS ‘Titanic’ Ukraine life rafts west of the Dnieper. NATO’s obviously gearing up for a new post-collapse eastern borderland and Trump’s signalling the Europeans will be paying for the new ‘wall’. With the failed EU experiment looking rather ‘Le Pen-sive’ … cui bono? There is only one supplier for NATO and that is Trump’s promise to the Pentagon puddle. The EU poodles will yap but their 2% tributes will serve just as nicely as the Saudi regime’s one and only function of shifting MIC inventory — it’s “the only economy (DC’s got), stupid!”
(… and what’s that Yatz rat doing these day?)
I’m not Kent, but here’s some pictures worth a thousand words to give you an idea:
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Rats+Jumping+Ship&id=2E3ECE9B2D4A25A6A2308386F7A586DEE2E9348E&FORM=IQFRBA
And it’s not just Yats. There’s a whole Rat Pack.
But what’s really sad and full of pathos is Yat’s girlfriend, Vicky. Here’s her lament, in this Cafe comment:
/moveable-feast-cafe-2017-03-02/#comment-329219
Vicky: “You get the picture?”
Obama State Dept “Yes, we see.” (from Leader of the Pack…..The Shangrilas)
Road Kill.
Living in Florida? 24 villas worth $multi-millions each. Good pay, being a US/Banderite mole, at least the PM level.
https://novorossia.vision/en/news/iatceniuk-kupil-v-maiami-24-villy/
Still running “Open Ukraine”? (NATO associated, probably a Soros Open Society subsidiary)
I believe they will use this year’s Eurovision to attack Russia publicity over and over all during the event. They’ll probably be large fascist inspired protests of Russia’s contestants. Reported all over the MSM. Some of the Russophobic contestants will call for support of Ukraine against “Russian aggression”.Also reported all over the MSM. As for “rules” against bringing politics into the event. Those will be disregarded even more than in last year”s Eurovision. It will be a “festival of hate” for Russia. I doubt the chances of a Russian artist winning the event has any traction. Unless they can find one that denounces Putin and calls for “Crimea to return to Ukraine”. That person if found,might have a chance to win.
I follow the situation in Ukraine and was convinced that is on the verge of a total collapse. So I was a bit perplexed to read, in The Duran, a very interesting analysis regarding the blockage of coal delivery from Novorussia to Ukraine, due, it is said, to an ongoing conflict between Kolomoysky and Poroshenko, such sentence: “The blockade severs lingering economic links with Ukraine while raising the impetus to accelerate integration with Russia, puts at risk the recent strong Ukrainian economic recovery,….”.
Recent strong Ukrainian economic recovery???
But if all was a mess?
“Recent strong Ukrainian economic recovery???
But if all was a mess?”
–Yes, Russian media has the same problem as Ukrainian media and NATO media. They will selectively only report negative things about their adversaries.
I have notice this sad fact, Russian media is not objective at all. It is just like all media, it is biast in its own interests. If you only read Russian media you will almost never read anything positive about Ukraine. You will spend day after day, month after month, year after year, certain that Ukraine will collapse any moment. It is not that pro-Russian media lies, it just only reports on negative things and puts the most negative spin on everything.
If you really want to know what is going on, you will have to read media from all sides. I have noticed that people that only read pro-Russian media believe Ukraine, USA, EU will collapse at any moment and Russia is a superpower.
While people that read only pro-Ukraine/NATO media thinks Russia is a corrupt dictatorship mafia state that will collapse at any moment be replaced by a “liberal-democratic free state” because that is what all Russians really want, and they think Ukraine will grow and prosper like all states under USA loving protection grows and prospers.
The trouble with your theory is that people who read CIA media may be forgiven for believing that The Ukraine has ceased to exist at all. Like a woman guilty about an abortion, may hide or bury the fetus, The Ukraine is buried… but stinking.
As for the USA, to think that the CIANN Lugenpresse in its death throes has anything to do with reality to offer, is to be further proof that the USA has effectively ceased to exist.
It goes on purely by inertia.
sorry, sir, I am south american and one need not read Russian media to grasp a knowledge that Ukraine and Usa (this last one only “as an empire”) will collapse. And that the EU with common currency is not viable. And that the sooner capitalism gets to monopolies the quicker they will b e forced to change.
And, yes, Russia is a super power becausehas what it takes to be a super power : a strong , smart leader wtih 80% approval. 2- They have everything required within their territory 3- Is better off now with sanctions than before 4- It can smash to a paste any opponent in a few hours 5- It is building up with Beijing the future world order. 5- They have in two years destroyed their enemies stragegy in Ukraine and in Syria – two priority regions the enemy had chosed to beat them…
And Russia is a superpower in the EXACT opposite way it was a banana power in Yeltsin times.
And let’s add a crucial fact: Russia has a low 20% (about) debt to GDP ratio. Compare and contrast with the US (104%).
I’m sure ‘recent strong Ukrainian economic recovery’ must have meant the Donbass part of Urkaine.
After a while here, always listening to stuff from Obama et al about how the US economy has strongly recovered, I can’t say what recovery even means any more — seems to have become another ‘magic word’ made from fairy dust.
Yes, that is accurate, if you believe the Ukrainian economy is collapsing you are as informed as those that think the Russian economy is collapsing. The Ukrainian economy is actually growing very rapidly now.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/gdp-growth-annual
The only thing growing in the Ukrainian economy, from your link, is agriculture, a fivefold increase. All other sectors are decreasing or have marginal growth. Most importantly GDP per capita PPP has also decreased. So maybe Monsanto is doing fine in the Ukraine. Ukrainians? Not really
@susano, I wouldn’t be worry too much. Sunctions are good for Russia, and if they push harder there are ways to anwswer. Putin would act accordinly. And when comes to military confrontation I recommend you to watch latest doc about Givi; there are people who found purpose of living after war broke down, you won’t find any better motivated people to face a war, the very key to sucess, on top of it my 2 cousins who are retired military pros are awaiting Mother’s call should the war start, how many more like that are there? enough to counter even green berets. I sleep peacfully.
There’s a scene in the documentary “Crimea the way back home” where Putin recounts for the interviewer some of the conversations he was having with other work leaders at time of the Crimea vote to rejoin Russia.
He says to (unnamed party, but would have to be Obama) …. | I am paraphrasing| where are you? You are 5000kms away. We are here. Why do you fight? You don’t care/know. We do know. This is us. This is Russia. We do know why we fight. He says this while tapping his heart. It’s not faux emotion.
Sums up the difference between “guns for hire ie: US military” and people fighting for their existence and their homeland.
“A portion of mankind may be said to constitute a nation if they are united among themselves by common sympathies which do not exist between them and others. This feeling of nationality may have been generated by various courses. Sometimes it is the effect of identity of race and descent. Community of language and community of religion greatly contribute to it. Geographic limits are one of the causes. But the strongest of all is identity of political antecedents, the possession of a national history and consequent community of recollections, collective pride and humiliation, pleasure and regret, connected with the same incidents in the past.” — John Stuart Mill
“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.” — George Orwell
“Stories make a place. Without stories there is no place, but without place there can still be stories. If your stories are not organically grown, but imposed on you by those who hate everything about you, then you’re virtually dead.” — Linh Dinh (“Ashland, Pa.”)
In West ethnicity replaces the political identity, but in 1st iteration of Russian Empire great effort was successful in creating Russian national identity. USSR did less well in this respect, but also raised industrial realities, won w2 and won the cold war… I will grant that, with respect to the cold war, some may disagree… But we can see the way of things…and Comrade Putin and all the advantages all have their foundations in the Soviet post war “cold war”… So, from the standpoint of an historian, since Comrade Putin is leading the Empire back to stability by prevailing over the sea peoples, the anglo saxon neocolonialist looting some call “globalisation” , this is to say that because he’s leading the re-emerging Empire to victory it must be that USSR won the cold war…
Maintaining this Russian mind is a fundamental for the Russian existential survival. Dark forces know this – and the proof? Dark Forces, essentially the Fourth Reich (I’ll leave it to you all to guess where the 4th R is home-based) spare no effort to promote ethnic, religious, political, sexual, ideas – these being poison to the political identity of Russian peoples.
“In West ethnicity replaces the political identity, but in 1st iteration of Russian Empire great effort was successful in creating Russian national identity.”
-Not really, the Russian empire was created, and driven by and for ethnic christian Russians, the various other smaller tiny ethnic groups are only part of Russia because they were conquered and brutally assimilated during colonial times, these ethnic groups are and were very small in number, I mean most individual ethnic groups are very small in number. This is one of the main reason why Russia is so large today,
,
Russia managed to keep her colonies because central and eastern Asia is largely underpopulated, there are many asian tribes there, but most have very low populations.
While UK and France colonized regions with a high population density, there only lives a few million non-whites in all of Russian-Siberia. Compared that to hundreds of millions in UK-India. Even today 95% of the population in Siberia is ethnic Russians or other Europeans ethnic groups, such as Ukrainians or Germans.
Russia today is an example of how important ethnicity is to maintain a country. If you want to keep a region, you cant just send tax-collectors, you must colonize it with your own or similar ethnic groups.
But even with so small minority groups inside the Russian empire, Russia had enormous problems with internal conflict and ethnic conflict. Especially from Muslim regions. Where many wars has been fought against rebellious muslims.
There is a portion of truth in this, both Russia and USA have fairly successfully created a “national identity”, an identity kind a separate from race or ethnicity.. In Russia a ethnic Asian can say “I am Russian” and feel that it is true, as a European from Moscow can say “I am Russian” and feel that this is true. Same in USA where a African can say “I am an American” and believe this is true and a European can say “I am an American” and believe this is true.
This “National identity” is however only on the surface and as such quite artificial. In both cases when someone says “I am an American” or “I am a Russian” an African or Asians does not come to mind, but in both cases the person that comes to mind is a blue eyed, bright haired European.
And in times of crisis this artificial identity quickly falls apart and regions starts to want to secede base on identity and ethnic conflict spikes.
So which historical narrative is the most correct for current Ukraine and the pieces it is composed of? The Banderite one? Half Russian, half Habsburg? Mix in some Polish. Lithuanian, etc.
How far back shall it go? The area now known as Ukraine was inhabited by Neanderthals for 44,000 years.. and there are some humans who carry Neanderthal genes… a homeland for genetically Neanderthal descendants?
And then there’s the endless waves of invaders, immigrants and ethnic/religious enclaves within all that to be accounted for.
So attempting to claim any national/ethnic as the legitimate Ukrainian narrative is a snipe hunt.
I will answer this…a well-run empire creates the identity by deliberate policy. Ask Peter the Great, ask Catherine…Imperial leadership, as opposed to colonial looting, is inclusive and persuades mostly organically. Violence creates large undesirable secondary after-effect. The art of Empire is the art of inclusive mind. The arts of law, education, peace, prosperity, and human happiness and good works. Watch Comrade Putin exercise this art, and learn! One feeds the “good wolf” (or “bear’!)
Politics cannot be a question of “ought to be”, it is, must be, a matter of “what can be”. For Russian Empire stability is essential that this is always in leadership minds.
Present conditions in Ukie area of “Western Forward Operating Base Kiev”, (WFOBK) are not relevant to what they will be. Why?
Because WFOBK must be abandoned in the retreat from Earth Island land mass. Retreat?
This follows the loss of FOB in Europe, which must follow either war or surrender (the war doesn’t change the history, or the outcome. It simply smashes things and murders innocents. And the war? This follows the interest rate – the economy will be the “deliberate” trigger for the whole awful process. There can be not other way, absent some outside matter – maybe a 5 km diameter rock from outer space… (do not wait for such miracles!)
After surrender of Fwd Op Bases Ukie nazi will face arrest…if they are lucky. Russia makes no secret of fact that they are taking testimony and preparing indictments. We all know how the German (and other nationality) nazi POW’s were kept for 10 years in USSR, and used to fix the things they’d smashed. I expect “our” nazi “partners” will be lucky if they get only a “tenner”.
@Stalin
What is the latest documentary on Givi? I’d like to see it.
I don’t doubt the bravery and readiness of the amazing people of Novorussia but I also hope that if the republics become a state it will bring something closer to an end of the conflict and not more of it. All of the precious lives lost are too many already. That said, I know we can count on demons like John McCain, Lindsey Graham and other chicken hawks to demand MORE WAR! I pray to God that Trump puts an end to all US support for the junta and the Nazis but I can’t guess what he’ll do. He’s too unpredictable and caved to pressure (on other issues) already.
Maybe he means http://www.fort-russ.com/2017/03/be-patient-givi-full-episode.html
March 3rd, 2017 – Fort Russ News –
‘Be patient’ – Givi: Full Episode
by Inessa Sinchougova
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_SNvKzRCeo&feature=youtu.be
Published on Mar 2, 2017
Inessa S
The 2016 NewsFront series on the war in the Donbass, Eastern Ukraine, is the antidote to the 2014 Vice series on the conflict. If you had watched the original Vice ‘documentary’ episodes, you would have consumed a large dose of US State Department propaganda, produced with an almost unlimited amount of resources. However, with the help of independent donations, NewsFront were able to create their own series which counters the US faux-narrative. This 2016 episode focuses on Commander Givi, Mikhail Tolstykh, and his Battalion, “Somali”. Undefeated in battle, Givi was murdered via an act of terrorism, in his office in Donetsk, on February 8th 2017.
@blue
Thank you and I’ll check these out. I haven’t opened the links yet and don’t know if I’ve seen them.
I watched some of the VICE Ukraine stuff early on but could not stomach the CIA/State Dept nature of it all. It wouldn’t surprise me if they received funds from either of those entities, they’re so bad. Too bad because I like their reporting style and they’ve done some good stuff like “The Farmer in Fukushima”.
@susano, Sorry I did not pass the link previously, here is the doc:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_SNvKzRCeo
@Stalin
Thank you so much and I will watch it.
I am so grateful that all of the videos exist. They become all the more valued since we’ve lost these precious people.
Thanks Saker. I am grateful to any good news in a world filled with trepidation. I worry about my relatives in that part of the world, so this makes me a little less (just a little), less tense.
I dont see anything good about the destruction of Ukraine. What other Russian ally is next? Belarus? A few cookies and we can have another color revolution? Then people blaming those nazis in Belarus? The belarusnazis? All it takes is the CIA setting up shop and distributing weapons or maybe they assassinate the Belarus leadership and blame everything on Russia?
To me the dismemberment of the allies of Russia ( Syria, Ukraine) is not good news. I do not share the enthusiasm I hear on this site for such things. This whole part of the world was once Soviet. Now it is all fighting each other with the CIA pulling the strings and carrying out assassination here and there. I am not impressed. By any of the people involved. They have all failed miserably, not just the western so called elite but even the Russian side is leaving me pretty unsatisfied.
They are all acting like dogs fighting over a big juicy bone. I wonder if anything good will be left when they are done. I hope so for people in the region. Ukrainians and novorussians alike.
Look at it this way – the historical Russian State and people are being re-united and restored over time. Those parts that were cut off from Russia by the USSR are now being reunited with the Motherland where they belong and always have. The remaining pieces are those which never fit into the Russian culture or history – these countries being basically created and stitched together by the communists to give the allusion of a widely unified USSR composed of many diverse nations. Now history is correcting itself as Russia is reborn. Yes, those non-Russian parts broken off will be destabilised and represent hot spots for years to come, but that is Europe’s problem.
Ukraine is a country in Europe.. And so is Russia btw.
Russia and the Slavic countries are not Europe prosta.
Copied from Arash’s post in another tread :
Oded Yinon’s “A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties”
Number 23:
“Iraq, rich in oil on the one hand and internally torn on the other, is guaranteed as a candidate for Israel’s targets. Its dissolution is even more important for us than that of Syria. Iraq is stronger than Syria. In the short run it is Iraqi power which constitutes the greatest threat to Israel. An Iraqi-Iranian war will tear Iraq apart and cause its downfall at home even before it is able to organize a struggle on a wide front against us”.
“Every kind of inter-Arab confrontation will assist us in the short run and will shorten the way to the more important aim of breaking up Iraq into denominations as in Syria and in Lebanon. In Iraq, a division into provinces along ethnic/religious lines as in Syria during Ottoman times is possible. So, three (or more) states will exist around the three major cities: Basra, Baghdad and Mosul, and Shi’ite areas in the south will separate from the Sunni and Kurdish north. It is possible that the present Iranian-Iraqi confrontation will deepen this polarization “.
Number 22: “The dissolution of Syria and Iraq later on into ethnically or religiously unqiue areas such as in Lebanon, is Israel’s primary target on the Eastern front in the long run, while the dissolution of the military power of those states serves as the primary short term target”.
On one hand, dissolving nations into ethno-states is the way the Anglo-Zionists destroy them. But on the other, at the same time, this is the process by which their political unity is recovered . . . by natural affinity.
So reunion of Russians in the Ukraine with RF is a worthy ambition (dissolution of the unnatural Ukrainian state), but any threat to the patriotism-based unity of Orthodox Russians, Islamic Russians and Jews
that is the RF can only be threatening and harmful.
Food for thought there, IMO . . .
— patriotism-based unity of Orthodox Russians, Islamic Russians and Jews—
Not really, I mean, yes, right now, in the showdown between NATO and Russia the unity you refer to is good. In in the end however, ethnic Russians are the ones that loses in such “union” since they could manage fine, in fact much better without the latter groups, but the latter parts could not manage without ethnic Russians.
So while I agree that right now it is important to stay united, in the long and medium run those two other groups you mention only poses a challenged to ethnic Russians. and their presence is a source of constant instability in Russia.
Your nostalgia is misplaced. Those who adhere to the ideology of Stephan Bandera or ISIS are hardly “allies of Russia” . The people of Donbass and Syria should not be condemned to live with and be abused by these freaks.
When gangrene sets in, in order to survive, the healthy part must be separated from the sick part.
You are right. This is a new modern version of the civil war that racked Russia once. I agree, chiering at the detruction of your former lands and people does not do any good. They should focus and work hard at reconciliation and re-uniting. And Moskow who played a major role at the dismantling of the great country should lead thes efforts.
R
@Thiamin
A few weeks ago, I have said almost the same : is not good for Russia, Ukraine to be sliced in pieces, they belong together (knowing their common history). Belarus is the same as Russia and Ukraine. I think Putin knows that very well, that’s why this “careful” approach. Of course, this is a speculation on my part but it may have a seed of true. Time will tell.
The CIA is going after all of Russia’s closest ally. This cannot be a good thing. Time will tell if people get together to stop this nonsense. There wont be much of Russia left if the CIA is allowed to get their way. I would love to see people coming together in this understanding that Ukrainian or Belarussians are not the enemy. They never were. For Russia to wrestle crimea away from a close ally is not what I see as a good thing. It makes other allies very nervous. Pretty soon, you end up with a whole bunch of armed neighbors at your doorstep clamoring for western support. I dont think anyone smart would push for that.
A strong Russia is needed to confront the rot of the western empire. It has to be a loving Russia though. Not one prone to stealing from allies. This will only play into the hands of the criminals that infest the west. Maybe Trump will arrest some of those criminals. They are doing tremendous damage to america as well.
Russia did not steal anything, and after the coup Ukraine was hardly a close ally, but not even that close before, comes down to it, or the situation would not have gone down the way it did, and how it is ging now. Ukraine was already a divided shambles.
Crimea was not really a part of Ukraine anyway, and Russia did not ‘wrestle’ it away: Crimeans freely chose to escape from Kiev’s terror and was fortunate that Russia accepted the restoration. How is it you don’t understand that?
Ukraine is now dead as the albatross, and there is no point in hanging it around ones neck. Whether it might find some phoenix in parts of it and rise from the ashes remains to be seen, but don’t expect anything soon.
And Russia, BTW, is on the way up while the US and CIA on the way down. The EU is the biggest losers in the West but this vicious fiasco, and Syria as well, has cost the US plenty, and will continue to do so.
I am not against Russia. I feel the best thing would be for Kiev, Minsk and Moscow to reunite. The only thing though, if it happens with tanks, the west will be able to say: Putin is evil. We must protect europe from him. Give us all your money. This is where I start to disagree.
I am tired of my tax dollars going for these stupid wars. I much prefer for Putin and the west to find other ways to settle their differences than by stealing my money.
The West already says Putin is evil. It’s not going to stop doing that. It’s going to continue lying, and making trouble and war everywhere, as it has for decades and centuries, until it is not able to or it goes away, or all people are finally so fed up with imperialism that no one will tolerate it, and make it mind it’s own business.
I wish imperialism would go away too. Sadly I think it is a global phenomena. It has existed even before america was founded. It is not a mental disease that happens only in the west. People pick sides in every conflict and pretend that their country can do no wrong. It is always someone else’s fault.
This sort of thinking has never helped us get rid of imperialism. I would think we need to have a different approach. Fix our own flaws and forgive other people for their crap also. Maybe the crumbling United-States will give us an opportunity to do this.
Don’t know what sort of thinking you mean.
Imperialism is an outgrowth of fear, partly ego, and from insecurity and the desire to exploit others (greed and lust for power), with an assumption of scarcity as a given. Not everyone has always been imperialist, but there are always psychopaths ready to take advantage of conditions. When most people are aware of this (in themselves and others) and how it works then we can make progress towards ending it. When Europe entered the stage of ‘enlightenment’ — liberalism and capitalism — it adopted a philosophy of imperialism (and mercantilism), as well as taking on a lot of hubris, and it became policy. Join the army, see the world, meet exotic people, and kill them. Note the Rome was also capitalist to a great extent (and collapsed from capitalism’s inherent inconsistency and massive debt).
It’s a matter of changing our paradigms and cultures.
@Thiamin, it’s true that when comes to Ukraine, CIA hit Russia where it really hurts, however don’t forget the fruits we pick up till now – Crimea!, thanks to CIA. Now we have situation that could spell the end for oligarchy, who would bully Russia regardless of events, peace or war. Your pessimism is misplaced, and wrong, we need turn defeat into victory like in 1945. Until now things are on track, and suffering of people is unfortunate but that’s life, there’s a price to pay, but at the end could be worth it. But we must fight and swallow from optimism.
” Bean-counters will tell me that the Ukrainian forces are about 2x to 3x larger, which is quite true. It is also irrelevant. What matters is whether they can mount modern, combined arms, operations and that is something that the Ukrainian military does not seem to be capable of.”
-But it does matter in defense does it not? Sure UAF is an mess, but the notion of NAF attacking a force that is 2x to 3x larger is absolute nonsense is it not? Even a forced conscript will fire back if it is on the defensive. If UAF is order to attack, they likely might not even get up from their trenches to obey the order. But both Strelkov and Cassad has said that the days when UAF fled as soon as they saw NAF is over, and UAF can defend.
Anyone else seen this leaked recording from Zakharchenko? Apparently he says that all the best nationalized assets and their profit will be given to an oligarch called Kurchenko and the people of DPR will get nothing or very little. Can anyone verify that it is accurate? I can’t speak Russian myself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ED76ZTvPJ8g
And here is video confirming that the leak is real. Where a journalist asks Zakharchenko what his comments about the leaked recording is, and he responds that there was no secret information in the recording and that Ukraine should get used to hearing his voice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPb6DK2jmns&t=40s
A plausible scenario is: Perhaps oligarch Kerchenko is providing the seed money to continue paying the running expenses/wages while new buyers are found for the coal/manufactured products. The people of DPR get to keep their jobs, DPR gets ownership of the mines/factories and the taxes that used to flow to Kiev and Kerchenko get a return on his financial outlay.
This cleverly sidesteps the “communist” label that would be attached by the US/Zionist media to DPR nationalizing the mines/factories.
Of course the pro-Kiv/US/NATO media would try to pick one “fact”, ignoring the full story, to demonize the DPR leadership, and by extension Putin/Russia.
In the recording Zakharchenko expresses his great concern that the best nationalized metallurgic factories are supposed to be handed the next day at 09:00 to the Moskow office of the oligarch Sergei Kurchenko under the pretext that Novorussia will not be capable to run them. He says “Is this why we are doing all this – to give it to Kurchenko?”
The 29 year (29!) old Sergei Vitaliovich Kurchenko is one of the richest Ukrainian oligarchs, owner of Veles group, Gaz Ukraine group, UMH group etc. who moved to Russia in Feb. 2014. His fortune ( about 10 bln annual turnover) he obtained by taking over multiple assets using his close friendship with the son of Yanukovich. Since 2014 he was involved in multiple attempts to take over some Crimean assets.
I agree with Zacharchenko and hope that he will manage to keep the Donbas’ treasures from the dirty hands of all sorts of oligarchs, either Ukrainian or Russian. Donetzk and Lugansk republics are diferrent in political and public structure from Ukraine and Russia and a hope for the people in both.
R
“under the pretext that Novorussia will not be capable to run them.”
This is nonsense, of course. The workers who have been running them certainly do not need a wealthy oligarch to tell them to keep doing what they have been all along and are intimately familiar with the operations. These should be worker run and managed, and owned by the people. (If they want a few hints they can get everything they need from http://www.democracyatwork.info/ — all they need for that are a few people who know English, and there other businesses around the world who operate as such.)
What the workers would need is cash to pay for materials, energy, wages, etc. while new buyers are found for the products. And bear in mind most business-to-business sales are net-30/60/90, so even if buyers are found and the products sold, it takes time to get paid.
I doubt the Donbass gov’t has the money to carry all the recently nationalized mining/manufacturing facilities, so where exactly would the cash come from? While Russia has “recognized” the Donbass citizens’ documents, doubtful such a large direct infusion of cash would be on offer.
So a deal with oligarch devils may be the only alternative to shutting the mines/factories down. The trick is to keep said banksters on a very short leash… as in no amount of financial leverage will result in ownership of said facilities for the oligarchs.
Donbas could simply issue money — that’s the purpose of fiat or script — to fund investments. Or any other country, bank, or person or company with means, could fund it, again, as investment, but it’s best of the government of Donbas did it, and it could be interest free. This is an important aspect of Donbas declaring itself sovereign (and equally for the drowning EU countries to do the same).
I’ll refer to the story by Alan Watts (zen guy) who told the story about the carpenters who showed for work and were told they could not build anything because ‘we ran out of inches’.
This would not be a huge amount needed relatively speaking — consider the cost of the wars, and such money would not need to be universally accepted on an international market. There could even be a special tax or bonds issued such as the US war bonds in WW2. The important thing, with fiat and other funding, is that it is used for productive purposes so that it is backed by future wealth created, similar to how any sound investment is, such as a farmer investing money, time, and energy to plant a crop which will later yield as much or more than was invested. Any investment is borrowing ‘time and energy’ from the future. The question is what expectations are realistic and how great are the risks (and how are risks to be covered — which is the basis for fair interest)?
All in all, it’s better to take some risks and do something than to have unemployment while factories sit idle, which would result only in loss and stagnation.
In case you missed it, Donbass is now using the Russian ruble as currency. Putin might not like Donbass forging rubles or making significant gov’t-backed bond-interest promises with them…
The cute capitalist-misdirection story about “running out of inches” has no bearing on how to properly deal with currency issuance as to not devalue all the rest of the notes already in circulation. A more accurate narrative is that the carpenters in the story would not work because they were going to be paid in Monopoly money that they knew held no value, or being asked to work for free. Or there was no lumber because no supplier would provide actual material in exchange for said Monopoly money, a promissory note for Monopoly money or for free. Or worse yet, no one could afford the houses they were to build, no matter what currency was in use.
And US WW2 War Bonds were as much about getting excess cash out of circulation as it was about funding the war. Each $ the US got in W-B’s was a dollar they didn’t have to print to cover the war costs, about $200billion in 1945$.
So my point stands that someone must be found with actual surplus assets to loan to Donbass to keep
the mines/factories operating while new markets/buyers are established. If an oligarch will do that for a cut of the profits (not all) fair enough.
Inches is not a cute story but an illustration that money is an abstraction.
They would not mint rubles, or course, but Donbas currency, and they can use both. That’s not something new — there have even been time when scrip was used locally because it was difficult to get other currency.
The only ‘real’ difficulty is in foreign exchange; if Donbas used it as money then lumber could be purchased, as well as food, and other goods within Donbas. For foreign trade an exchange rate would be established whereby those who were purchasing in, say rubles, would accept DOnabs note because they could be used for local trade. In many areas ‘merchant dollars’ are used in this way — and they tend to keep trade local, one of the reasons for its use. People can work for merchant money — an advance over barter , which can be used to buy things and services from anyone in the merchant dollar system. The only need for dollars is to pay taxes, or buy things from those not in the system. Compare to the Russian import substitution programs to counter sanctions.
Cryptocurrency, such as bit coin, illustrate aspects of this.
The ‘surplus assets’ do not have to be from some rich guy in foreign currency — there are plenty of surpluss assets in Donbas already: skilled workers who need work, idle factories, raw materials, and natural resources which can be traded elsewhere, and the growing number of goods to be made as manufacturing is given new life.
Remember, money is not wealth, but used to symbolically transfer wealth, store wealth, and account for wealth — and under financialization and banksters, to gain wealth by fraud and scams without producing any real wealth at all. Actual money, exogenous money produced by a government has legal backing from a government, and it’s value is based on trust the government will honor it, either for debts to the government or by foreigners using it for trade. Endogenous money is created by banks and is nothing more than credit and debt accounting, which is backed by only a small reserve in the central bank — and enough faith by people to accept it, as when one accepts a receipt for a deposit of dollars in a bank account.
So, do the people of Donbas have faith in their country, and willingness to support it by using Donbas currency? Yes, a system needs to set up to do these things, and that can be done. In fact, it canbe done through accounting with almost no actual printed currency, eliminating the threat of enemies counterfeiting it, as the English counterfeited Continental Dollars during the US revolution to crash it’s value — although with current technology counterfeiting is more difficult and requires some sophistication, although the EU or US could do it easily enough.
The problems are not in the principles or economics, but good implementation. Creating monetary systems and currencies has been done through all of history. There is plent of real wealth in Donbas — it’s just a matter of putting it to use, while staying out of the clutches of the banksters and enemy nations.
Your “inch” metaphor is about as sound as asking how many rubles wide a table is. Another take on a flawed premise. Give ’em and inch and they’ll take 1.6x10E13 angstroms. HAHAHA! (In a past job I was the technologist for the local college’s Metrology lab.)
Of course currency is a construct, but for it to be functional, the value must be fairly closely agreed upon by all involved and must be backed by something at least reasonably tangible. Scrip (or even small-GDP-country currency) is never as valuable as the authority issuing it would like to believe. How does a few thousand Belarus rubles sound? Or Vietnamese dong? Wiemar marks?
And since Russia is now allowing Donbass citizens to work in Russia for rubles? Donbass is better off keeping things simple with the Russian ruble until where the boundaries/gov’ts end up is established. To think Donbass will ever be a totally independent country is a real stretch. An autonomous republic within a federation, sure.
I’m guessing at this point Donbass is not as flush as you believe, (and the citizens know it) and doesn’t have a few $billion-worth of GDP and reserves to back a currency, even if only for internal use. The requirement is for liquid assets, because borrowing against physical assets (the ones just appropriated) puts the banksters back in charge, as Donbass has no independent banking system. Oh, ya, just print money and you have a bank… how silly of me!
I think the main effort is correctly focused on not getting invaded and keeping the economy moving by the simplest, most robust means available. Using the Russian ruble is the easiest, most accepted currency… if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Getting a tame oligarch to invest cash to initially cover running expenses/wages with no chance to execute a leveraged buy-out is a rational choice… as long as the oligarch doesn’t take all the profits. Just a fair ROI. If Donbass is otherwise as economically strong as you say, there should be lots for all involved, including the workers and taxes to the gov’t.
Actually, it was Alan Watts’ metaphor or analogy, not mine, but it works. Both inches and money is an abstract measure, one of length and the other of tangible wealth. The MMT people at UMKC like to use points at a ball game.
What wuld back up Donbills (to coin a term) is the very tangible wealth of the country, which is better backing than the trillions of inflated US dollars has at this point. The value of a Donbill can be set by the Donbas government as an exchange rate it will give for Rubles, dollars, or any other currency, but the agreement needed is the people of Donbas since it would primarily be used within Donbas.
By citing Weimer you show you don’t understand the situation and cause of inflation there. DO a search on ‘Randall Wray hyperinflation’ for more.
The point is, there is real wealth in Donbas: raw materials, skilled labor, manufacturing equipment, and good potential markets, both domestic and foreign. There’s no reason to suffer from self-inflicted paralysis and not to use those resources — certainly not a shortage of abstract accounting measurements. It’s not a question even of just how much real wealth Donbas has, but properly using what there is.
Did early pioneer settlers not build things because they did not have enough money? Not at all — they worked out a system of exchange among themselves, with far less real resources than Donbas has, and dealt with the real economy.
BTW, GDP is not real backing for a currency because GDP isn’t real to start with and need not represent real wealth: look at the current stock market and other bubbles and all the tranched derivatives and CDOs with the same, perhaps worthless, collateral used a dozen times over.
No oligarch is tame enough to put out money without expecting a big return — big profits and interest on credit he issues (or he would put the money somewhere else with better return) — and control of the resources — that’s how they became wealthy oligarchs. That’s what the IMF, international corporations, and economic hit men do.
Newton was also an alchemist, so no knowledge authority is always right. And while Watts may have been a good philosopher, his bent towards Buddhist utopian socio-economic ideas would not have been of much value in a war zone like Donbass. I am less concerned with the “idea” of inches than I am in the practical, standardized use of them. Unlike once being calibrated against barley-corns or thumbs, “Inches” are now officially traceable/calibrated against a multiple of a specific atomic wavelength… how much simpler our lives would be if some similar strict standard was applied to currencies. Modern currency/exchange systems are like trying to build a house or machine where the units of measurement change on an constant basis, on the strength of “news” or “demand” about items only tangentially involved in the building of that particular item. Having Donbass reinvent the currency wheel, let alone some particular economic/social version along the communist/socialist/capitalist spectrum while fighting a war is not practical.
“Wealth” (another human abstraction, no different than GDP etc.) in the form of raw materials, labour, equipment etc. that you cite is only useful if the people are able to sustain themselves while the process of combining all those unfinished elements into the products for markets still to be determined are secured, and payment completed.
Your “solution” of printing a new currency to mortgage the region’s future-realizable “wealth” while it faces an uncertain future is not wise. If financial/economic players who also operate outside Donbass have “skin in the game”, the prospect they will subvert the system against Donbass, or encourage others to do so, is far less likely. Russia is being pragmatically magnanimous, in essence financing Donbass to allow open use of R-rubles, open border travel/trade and acknowledge all official documents to ensure the citizens are not trapped in the Donbass economy. Part of the US-backed junta’s plan was to isolate/manipulate Donbass in all aspects, and having Donbills makes that easier, not harder.
Don’t think for one second that any “oligarch” who provides backing to Donbass industry is only operating in Donbass. While the temptation may be to take more than the investment is due, having Putin looking over your shoulder in such dealings is a great deterrent to greedy impulses.
A Donbill would be a weak currency and the attention/energy required to create and maintain it is better focused fighting off the Kiev junta and the domestic/international thugs who Kiev has lost control over. I doubt Kiev (or even the US/Zionists) would have the chutzpah to counterfeit (or hoard?) large sums of Russian rubles to destabilize Donbass, but Donbills? Why not… As the problems with Bitcoin and recent Wikileaks revelations show, there is no absolute security in digital transactions, so a digital Donbill is not guaranteed tamper-proof.
And whatever association (or not) the citizens of Donbass want with the Russian Federation after the junta falls will be honoured by the Kremlin. Then is the time to decide if a Donbill is the best course of action.
@ blue: A few more thoughts… big interest on credit? And where would that be? ZIRP and NIRP have been in play for a few years now… how could an oligarch demand high interest anywhere when US$/Euro/yen central banks are handing out interest-free cash like candy? Another reason to stay in the Russian ruble system, so the Russian banks setting up shop in Donbass don’t have to do the currency-exchange dance.
Russia and the rest of the BRICS+ is incrementally exiting the US$/IMF/World Bank etc. system, and what easier way than for Donbass to be reasonably insulated from the Rothschild banksters than to use the R-ruble. At least until the junta war is over.
Comparing Donbass citizens to “pioneers settlers” is silly. May as well say New Yorkers can “live off the land” like native Americans used to on Manhattan. Or any moderate-sized city anywhere go back to the barter system? Not a serious option. I’m sure there’s a lot of it going on in Donbass, but creating a currency to formalize that? When there is a perfectly good currency in use? Not worth the effort.
Weimar marks? My point was the currency was worth near zero. Not to open another line of distraction and more one-up-man-ship from you.
“big interest on credit? And where would that be? ZIRP and NIRP have been in play for a few years now”
…
Be in Greece for one, where they can’t even service the debt.
“Weimar marks? My point was the currency was worth near zero. Not to open another line of distraction and more one-up-man-ship from you.’
I hadn’t thought my comment was distraction or one-upsmanship at all.
But I have to comment here because there is no reply button for your post below. If you want to pursue it I suppose you can start up again in MFC.
This is not hanging together for me — not least that the first video’s source is Ukranian security service. The second video does not specify the first video but some ‘intercepted phone conversations’ — which could refer to any or all phone conversations.
No, it is not a secret [that the industries will be nationalized] — which is what Zak said.
There is no chain of reference / evidence here. The first video could easily be fabricated by Kiev.
The voice is Zakharchenko’s, the pronunciation, the expressions are also the ones he uses. The phone conversation runs in a logical way. And his answer in the second video is : This is not a secret information, I advise Ukrainians to get used to my voice.
Donbass despite all claims from Ukraine to be “fed” actually provided even after 2014 a 25% of the country economical return. Laments from Russians about “feeding” it in the future are also unsubstantiated. Donbass is a rich piece for grab. It is believable that Zakharchenko might have been pressed to hand those factories to Kurchenko.
R
Given that’s what was said is “factories are supposed to be handed” a complaint he is resisting, or just reporting? Who is handing them over — who has authority or power to do that? Is Kurchenko now Russian or still Ukrainian, and if the latter what returns to Ukraine or how is it different from Akhmetov having them?
There seems to a lot of the narrative which I don’t have access to or is not being told. The comment at fort Russ http://www.fort-russ.com/2017/03/1914-comes-again.html said Donbas will not get anything, and the implication that Zak was just giving away the store.
It is clear from the conversation that he is resisting to hand those factories to Kurchenko and wants to keep them as a state property of the republics. Kurchenko lives in Russia since Feb 19, 2014 and his offices are there, what is his status I don’t know. However, his business is still running successfully in Ukraine and he pays taxes to Ukraine. Interesting, isn’t it? Makes your head spinning. Dirty schemes.
R
This conversation does fit into my idea that corruption is global. There are those in Russia who drool at the prospect of getting their hands on Ukrainian assets. I was not aware of this situation but it would make sense that heroes of Donbass (like those that were killed) would not have looked kindly on the seizure of factories in their region by friendly russian mobsters.
It does explain why no one wants people to speculate about what is going on with those targeted assassinations. This whole affair stinks.
To the mods: I see the “reply” button has been removed in the sub-thread with blue.
I understand why, but at some point the competence of the person posting needs to be challenged. blue refuses to accept the Donbass currency strategy to use the Russian ruble. This is not something that will change, and blue needs to accept that, but continue to deny reality and past/current history of scrip/weak-currencies and being detrimental to the regions/countries where it has been tried is a waste of comment space.
His reference to an oligarch finding high interest in Greece is ludicrous, as in that case, high interest is an indicator of extreme high risk. Germany is having to use all its strong-arm techniques to get their “investments” back, so no conservative investor is going to do it. Agreed, there is a very small class of investors who take such huge risks, often use them to leverage other opportunities. My guess is the “oligarch” involved is choosing to invest in Donbass because he knows the risk profile he is prepared to take.
Greece presents far higher risk than investing (as is happening) in Donbass mining/industries. Ironically, for all the “wealth/infrastructure/skilled-labour” reasons blue states.
blue takes my exposition of realistic potential rationales behind the facts of Donbasss using the R-ruble and investment from “oligarchs” as some kind of fact-less opinion. The fact is, Donbass is and will continue for the foreseeable future to use the R-ruble. And the “oligarch” will invest, and Zarchenko’s concern was that ALL the profits and ownership not end up in the oligarch’s pocket. That is a reasonable concern and one which surely will be addressed in drawing up the loan agreement. The people running Donbass appear to have some brains.
And it’s not like I called blue an total idiot or worse… but he is either reading from a script or is not able to comprehend the wider consequences of his suggestions. Consequences I clearly outlined which he refuses to accept.
I assume Saker mods are coached on detecting posters who are here merely to create confusion and fill threads with noise. This form of troll will have learned direct attack tactics are not allowed, so a more subtle form is required. The Saker blog comment section is probably very high on the list of those to be infiltrated and diluted with diversionary material.
Thanks for the work you all do, it is much appreciated even when I may not fully agree.
I’m sure your running into a wordpress limit on replies … we are set to nest 10 deep and once you hit that limit no more replies … no intervention by mods … mod-hs
The Russian authorities couldn’t care less about what western politicians or their corporate media have to say: they already heard it all and it’s not like they could be demonized much futher.
I think that you are not stressing enough the negative aspect of the blockade of the DPR and LPR on Ukraine. Shortage of Anthracite is going to impact Ukraine ability to meet the electricity requirement and also will affect the metal industry further. More people are going to loose their job.
Alexander Zakharchenko position is: this economic crisis is going to destroy Ukraine more than an eventual war
Russia have stressed that it will recognize DNR and LNR passports only as a temporary measure and DNR and LNR does not nationalize business held by Ukrainian oligarchs, it only enforce external control over them. means they are not challenging ownership …yet.
To me this looks like Moscow is not ready to burn all bridges yet. These measures might be just pressure (and counter-pressure) being applied on junta in Kiev and their backers in the West.
Of course, that might change any time.
I do not of course know what precisely the nazi end of the affair is going to do about electrical power – but I know that nuclear power station NPS must be supplied via a stand-by source, generally several, these constituting emergency diesels EDD and a redundant grid-tie to a solid power grid and solid base-load.
I doubt that the NPS, without the Thermal coal power stations TPS running, ie out of coal, there will be no support network. NPS cannot be operated according to valid and reliable engineering protocols after that. They will probably run the NPS without safeties, ie without back ups. Then, if anything trips the plants…
It could be terrible. Very risky. For all the hemisphere….forever.
Ask for remarks from people who read Russian and know the Ukie grid and systems – they will know specifics and have much better understanding of risks.
Ask/look in Ukie/Russ blogs…
But I bet with myself that some competent military force is going to occupy the Ukie nukes, and soon. Probably Russian special fellas…and engineers. And sapper. The nazis may boobytrap the plants…
In addition the NPP’s have spent fuel in cooling ponds. In the event of a loss of power the water will boil off leading to spent fuel overheating with possible rupture of the rods. In this event a lot of iodine 131 would be released along with some level of other daughter products from fission of uranium. The latter may be limited due to glassification.
I hope that Zakharchenko can keep himself safe. Maybe this complete blockade will help that, although I think Givi’s killers were local Donbass people. The anti-Novorussians in Donbass should be sent back where they belong. Perhaps the Donbass needs to do some polling and find out who these people are although I’m not really sure how ….
Dear The Saker,
Interestingly Boris Johnson is to visit Moscow:
https://www.rt.com/news/379422-uk-boris-johnson-moscow/
“UK foreign secretary to visit Moscow ‘in coming weeks’ to discuss bilateral ties, Syria, Ukraine…….A lack of any meaningful dialogue with Russia on the part of the FCO was criticized recently by the Parliament’s Foreign Affairs Committee, which stated: “Refusal to engage with the Russian government is… not a viable long-term foreign policy option for the UK, because Russia is a European nuclear-armed United Nations Security Council member state……”
Hmm so they have only just realised that! They are losing in Syria and Ukraine, losing trade – infighting in the US – time to stop the tomfoolery.
Ha, ha … like the image on the post.
Reminds me of the proverbial “404” (if we can do the ‘ABBA’ mirror thing)
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/684690648759447552/YEdkK5GH.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_404
However, on a quick search someone has already do int…
http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/alexx_od/76506834/30405/30405_original.jpg
http://peremogi.livejournal.com/11347632.html
//Primarily responsible for the Donbass leaving the rest of the mess for the Europeans who//
-Russia’s are Europeans, so are Ukrainians for that matter.. I know you are liberal and in your racial ideology Europeans or “whites” are bad and rotten and thusly you want to pretend that Russians and Ukrainians are not Europeans or “whites” but instead mongols or whatever. But gez. Even a 12 year old knows that Europe is a geographical area and not a political block and that Europe contains many countries beyond those in EU, among them Ukraine and Russia.
I mean, lol. Ethnic Russians are the largest European ethnic group.
If Russia is European then so must be Mongolla, China, and even India, which are part of the same huge land mass, as is Iran, Iraq, and Saudi for that matter. Russia goes well to the east of China and Mongolia, and Korea, which are pretty much on Russia’s southern border, and about in the middle of Russia as goes longitude, but part of the same block of land. In fact Russia stretches East all the way to the US but for a few mile. So is the US part of Europe too?
I will not call my self “nightingale” anymore. Obviously, my name here was chosen after Hans Christian Andersen’s “The Nightingale”. Now, I have to come up with a new name…
Sure, call yourself “slavuj” instead. ;-)
A bird that symbolizes beautiful singing voice in Serbian culture.
And those Waffen waffles .. to hell with them.
There is a certain Soviet nostalgia among the people of Donbass and eastern Ukraine combined with elements of patriotism and Christian orthodoxy .
The seccesionist states have been officially named as “people’s republics” ( like the people’s republics of the eastern European socialist states), their legislatures are called “soviets”, they use Soviet era anthems and symbols etc. The nationalisation of industries is also a great thing, not only as a war time necessity but as a social justice policy. All Soviet Ukrainian industries were under state ownership up to 1991, and similar with Russia they were stolen with illegal means by various mafia people (“oligarchs”) during the privatization process.
Even though 26 years have passed since the end of USSR, people still remember that life was better then.
What followed USSR was dystopian for most Ukrainian people. A very powerful industrial Republic of the superpower USSR ended up as a poor Third World like country. Mafia people looted factories and became billionaires.
Millions lost their jobs. Birth rates and life expectancy declined dramatically. Countless of young girls ended up working as prostitutes.
And now Ukraine is a puppet state of NATO…..
The Donbass was lost to Ukraine in 2014. The Ukie’s can kiss it goodbye. So was Crimea, which has been apart of Russia since Catherine the Great. The Kiev junta will not have their little ‘Khazaria’. Btw, most of the members are of the Hebrew persuasion.
Another thing that doesn’t get mentioned much is the role of Mr. Kadyrov’s men from Chechnya. When violence first broke out, the Donbass peoples militias were disorganized and taking a beating. Then came the efficient, effective and experienced Chechens who organized the resistance and actually fought and caused the rout we saw in 2015. The battle for the Donetsk Airport and other such disasters for the Ukie army. Units of these same commandos are fighting in Syria too.
Interesting that them and Hezbollah are on the same team, fighting side by side. Together, a highly effective force indeed. Throw in the Syrian Arab Army, that has after 6 years of grinding warfare , been distilled down to probably the best fighting force in the world. All of which doesn’t spell good news to Israeli hegemony and belligerence. Yemen war is escalating, with what I believe will become another Afghanistan for the Saudi’s and U.S., who will at some point near, have to come and save the House of Saud from a heavy defeat that will have the throne toppled perhaps. Daesh is getting clobbered in Iraq, and there too we see militias and army gaining much battlefield experience and them too are armed to the teeth. These forces I mentioned are greatly allied to Iran.
So it comes down to a few factors. There is emerging a Pan-Arab(Yemen, Syria, Iraq and Lebanon)-Persian(Iran) alliance ,whom are allied with Russia and China(maybe even throw Pakistan, and therefore Afghanistan, into the mix).
Then you have the Saudi-U.S.-British-Israeli-Indian alliance, to whom time is not on their side.
As soon as Eurasia is integrated by China mostly, but also by Russia, then the food-gates will open and the world will start to gravitate to the new ‘system’ that humanity is so desperately wanting to evolve into. This ‘new’ system is being set up in the east as we speak. Its based on harmony, free trade, cultural exchanges, respect for sovereignty, integration and over-all, a win-win for all involved. When one looks at the Chinese and Russian people, and their history, one realizes they are not interested in ‘overlord-ism’, like todays world managers are. Who rule us with an ‘iron-rod’, either submit or face war, sanctions, subversion, ethnic cleansing and racism based on ideologies of ‘manifest destinty’, racial supremacy , radicalism and narrow apocalyptic religious beliefs. Both Zionism and Wahabbism are two faces to the same coin.
Interesting times coming up. Sorry for rambling and getting off topic.
The ‘old’ system is obsolete and inefficient.
Rambling? Hardly !
Seems like an accurate and sobre summary of the current situation and the likely future.
Well done!
yes, interesting times comes.
yesterday I was thinking that Russia has managed to practically integrate an arab army (SAA) in its system of warfare. I can not remember whether they were americans managed to do with the arabs. with western allies and Japan yes. but not with arabs. I think it is very important because it all takes place in conditions of war, in Syria.
Politic is art of possibilities. War makes possibilities. Successful Generals exploit this fact. Is not static field. Mad delusional 4th Reich “leaders” assume static field – this is what “exceptional” means in code… gods make mad to bring mortals to heel from hubris. when they say “eceptional” is evidence of proximate doom, they show the hubris to the gods, and then they show madness.
guess who loses this one?
Right…
i forgot… still a little foggy for me to explain properly… Russia brings to arab army western-like victory, ideology of warfare which brings results. the same results of which western armies may fear at some point in near future if they dare to attack Syria or allies, Iran. Iran,Syria and Hezb are learning now secrets of warfare in real combat. Israel will be just one among many. it will have to negotiate. on other side, US is just selling weapons. nothing else. but having western weapons does not guarantee to some arab army same results as that is some western army. we can see Saudi blundering in Yemen. they have everything and nothing. iraqis, they choose intl.
it could become a similar situation in Ukraine. where all that NATO weapons could become just nothing. iron without soul. timeline is very important here. conflict is frozen for too long for Kiev side.
first they were out of favour of nazi elements, now they are out of favour of nazi elements, “the west”, own people from east part of country and even Russia. they are all alone in their misery. very sad destiny for people and for country. for just one reason – they wanted to be something the are not. the universe will not help until they begin to return to what they are.
I agree with Thiamin (March 04, 2017 · at 9:10 am UTC) that the destruction of the Ukraine is nothing to cheer about, especially from a Russian perspective. From the globalist anglozionist perspective, any result that keeps Ukraine outside of the Russian world and opposed to it is good. The death of Ukraine as a nation, the continuous worsening of economic conditions forcing its population out, is a prospect that causes profuse salivation among vulture the forces waiting to get its land and resources on the cheap. They’re working on ways to change the laws that forbid the sale of agricultural land. As far as I can tell, the only thing preventing that for the moment are the nazionalists, the fear they instill in liberal lawmakers. But make no mistake, they’ll keep working on it. The messier it gets, the better for the Mamon-Satan marriage.
“The blockade of the Donbass was decided by a rather small group of nationalist leaders who never asked for, or received, any authorization for their actions from the junta in Kiev.”
The banderaites are the israeloamerican colonial army, they get their order direct from israel, or through israel’s american colony. Nothing the ukronazis do is on their own, they are fully controlled. The porkshank regime is merely a figurehead to provide cover for the nazis and their zionazi handlers.
The recent changes by Novorussia and Russia in regards to the Ukraine are no doubt in recognition of the recent ukronazi actions. I’m speculating that Novorussia and Russia would have made these changes earlier, but held off to see what the tuppence regime in the usa was planning in the Ukraine. With the recent ukronazi actions, and their official backing from the tuppence regime, it was very clear there would be no significant change by israel’s american colonials. Nor would there probably in the near future, something the Russians probably expected, so they are proceeding now as they would have had there been a clinton regime.
It is indeed inexiplacable why the criminal neo-nazi regime in Kiev has survived that long. However at the end it goes very quickly and Zakharchenko may know more, while predicting that the regime will collapse within 60 days. That is why I recommended this program on Russian TV to the Saker a few days ago and I am happy that he addressed the broader issue regarding the destiny of the two republics. Donetsk and Lugansk are de facto no longer part of Kiev and the Russians understand this very well. The West is in denial and it is good so.
The bad news for Kiev is that there is nobody to support them anymore. Germany, France are in turmoil excepting fearfully a regime change and England is after Brexit in a free fall. The Trump administration has no intention to support Poroshenko after he explicitly supported Killary. The Senate has just voted to reduce to more than half the export of lethal weapons to Ukraine. This ridiculous and artificial country is completely isolated and the western puppeteers of the Kiev coup turned into cowards and run away leaving the battle field for the Siberian bear. The inner fight for power between the oligarchs has reached new heights who behave like vultures over a dead corpse.
I suggest to consider for Poroshenko the Ceausescu’s scenario which I witnessed first hand in the weird month of December 1989.
Dr. Georgi Stankov
Well according to sputnik today…Ukraine is planning how to use a forthcoming tranche from the IMF loan….as far as it will go of course is a different answer……
US Supplying Lethal Weapons to Ukraine Likely to ‘Raise Global Military Threats’
https://sputniknews.com/world/201703041051266561-us-weapons-ukraine/
“A sum of $150 million is very significant for Ukraine’s military budget. For the first time, the funds could be used for advanced rearmament of the Ukraine military.
The legislation will be considered by the House of Representatives, and then it will be approved or rejected by US President Donald Trump.
“Despite the fact that the bill presumed a cut in US military assistance for Ukraine, US Congress wants to provide Kiev with lethal weapons. This is the key point. If the bill is passed the money must be allocated by September 30, the end of fiscal year 2017. This is a warning sign,” Russian journalist and political commentator Alexander Khrolenko wrote in a piece for Sputnik.
Previously, a bill on providing Ukraine with lethal weapons was already submitted to Congress, but the legislation was finally rejected.”
Looks like the plan is to cut back on the figurehead portion of the zionazi ukraine colony and double down supporting the ukronazis, their terrorism an provocations. The bill could ultimately fail to pass, or the tuppence regime could veto it, but, regardless, I think it represents the approach the zionazis are planning to pursue.
to chip in – my reply to Anonymous and Russian media objectivity,
In Russian media landscape you have very wide spectrum one can chose from, its opinion coverage cannot be seen in Europe, thanks to political correctness demagogy.
Recommend very good weekly analysis named:
Russian Newspapers Monitor with Prof. Filip Kovacevic
http://www.newsbud.com/category/russian_newspapers_monitor_with_prof-_filip_kovacovic/
In regards to Russian TV channels, lately I prefer and enjoy Yurij Pranko on tsargrad.tv
Юрий Пронько – Реальное время / Current Times
https://www.youtube.com/user/tsargradtv/videos
And finally, my trust to statistics published in any newspaper/or any other media is very limited.
As a example I can take the recent US unemployment data or on the another spectrum Russian Premier Minister speech few weeks ago about Russian economy.
yours, tanto
Napoleon rather impiously remarked that “one can do anything with bayonets except sit upon them.”
The militarized nazi-fied “Ukraine” may be considered to be “bayonets” – of a non-unifield set of variegate groups.
They cannot win. They are therefore only a liability to all parties…a loose cannon on deck, or should one say “cannons” – there are several….
If the friendly folks who are propping up and controlling these bayonets decide to retreat – and they must do this – then it may be that the logical thing is being done – that’s to turn the bayonets against one another and to thus bring their destruction. This may be what’s going on… Rather like flushing the commode when one leaves the WC…
Mind you, I doubt that the foregoing is the case, it’s simply what a good loser would do. Not th”murkin’ way at all!
Hi Saker
I have a question why don’t you run google ads on your site.
Regards
Are you missing them? :D
As I am not Saker, I can only speak for myself. I enjoy that this site does not use ads because it avoids spoiling our heads with stuff we do not need. Moreover, as ads can contain malicious code, I rate third-party ads as security risk. For this reason, I always use an ad blocker and strictly ignore content that gets displayed only without.
Best regards,
Marcel
You, child, are as full of it as a Christmas turkey. Disrespecting Ukraine with your nazi reference only shows how asinine you and your propaganda-ladened article really are. Sub-humans like you are lower than whale feces and your stench is just as bad.
Your post is absurd and despicable but I have passed it just to remind readers of The Saker how justified all humans are in wanting to get away from the the stinking ship called The Ukraine, and all those who are still bailing.
I include an infinitely better and funnier diatribe than yours to show more clearly just who are the ‘untermensch’ – obviously the English and their newfound Golem vassals – Fascist Ukrainians like you.
The immortal John Cleese as the ‘taunting Frenchman’.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWBUl7oT9sA fk mod.
This commenter is Ukrainian based and a nazi troll. Please could we close this conversation down as it is only feeding this individual. All their comments are going to trash. Thanks. Mod
Speaking of ‘sub-human’ (untermensch), he sounds like he is rather sympathetic to nazis, but hesitant to admit it — perhaps wants to deny that the nazis in Ukraine are nazis, despite their own readiness to identify as such (either nazis or Nazis) and carry the symbolic paraphernalia.
A troll all in all. No overt content or substance, of course, but one who has at least written with reasonable grammar and spelling. Perhaps he could someday become a ‘journalist’ and work for the Telegraph, or even the BBC? He would feel at home there.
Attacking the author rather than the logic of the article merely proves that you have nothing to add.
i) The IMF has frozen the next tranche of loans to Ukraine
ii) The IMF is talking about urgent ‘reforms’ to Ukraine land law allowing to allow foreigners to buy Ukraine land en masse (Monsanto and GMOs come to mind).
iii) Ukraine has sold arms to ISIS via Saudi Arabia. In return Saudi has delivered a 200,000 ton tanker load of aviation fuel to Ukraine. Is this for Ukraine civil airlines? More likely, it is for the Ukraine air force.
iv) There are reports that the US has already or will provide ATGMs to Ukraine
v) The judgement over the $3 billion inter-governmental loan made by Russia to Ukraine is pending. This is being made in British courts so it could go either way depending on short-term political pressures. If it goes to Russia, Ukraine has no funds to pay it back. Maybe Russia could lay claim to $3 billion of land (see i)!
Interesting analysis from The Saker. But even though I agree with most of what he wrote, I have a few worries about the Donbass situation.
Remember, the most desirable outcome of this conflict is twofold. First, that NATO absolutely does not — and never can — expand into Ukraine. Second, that no West Ukrainian ethnic-chauvinist political order is established in the Russian speaking sections of Ukraine (i.e., NovoRussia).
If Ukraine gets ramrodded into the EU — or if the EU-Ukraine integration process gets untracked and can’t be stopped — then both of my fears could manifest in that part of Ukraine which doesn’t include Donbass. In this grim scenario, the rest of Ukraine remains under the Maidan government’s sway, Ukraine gets into the EU, and NATO is quickly established in Ukraine. From there the Russian Federation’s national security is gravely undermined, and a Latvia-Estonia style future awaits some 10 or 15 million Russified East Ukrainians.
That Donbass is binding more closely with Russia — and that the rest of Ukraine is a disorganized, semi-Nazi mess — are both true. But neither truth allays my fears that EU expansion into Ukraine may happen anyway.
This news from the Netherlands I found quite unsettling:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/770520/EU-Ukraine-deal-Dutch-MPs-vote-against-referendum-approve-Kiev-pact
Thoughts anyone?
The greatest danger to the people of Ukraine I think is famine.
The way food arrives in shops and supermarkets is through a usually quite long network of transport and distribution companies.
Western supermarket systems operate a just-in-time delivery regime meaning there are no stockpiles of food in towns and cities. I imagine Ukraine’s food supply system is similar.
If that chain gets broken, for example a trucking company does not get paid this can cause loss of supplies in the shops which the public interpret as scarcity and so panic buying, which multiples the problem, begins and soon there is chaos.
It must be quite a task ensuring daily deliveries of food all over a country like Ukraine which of course has a population whose standard of living is falling anyway and now there is talk of powercuts. This is a horrendous prospect for the civilian population.
The last thing a country needs at a time like this is a failing government.
I hope I am wrong but to me and having watched events unfold in Ukraine since 2014, I do greatly fear that shortages of food supplies could erupt at any time followed by famine across the country.
In fact unless I am missing some glaring fact I do not see how this terrible scenario can be avoided.
There are about 40 million people living in Ukraine. The scale of the catastrophe a famine would cause is hard to imagine. Millions of deaths would surely occur.
Very interesting developments Saker. Thank you for keeping us informed. Perhaps the situation in the Donbass will naturally resolve itself. I pray for peace in the Donbass and Ukraine.
You can’t say that Russians will pay for Donbass and the Europeans for the rest, Russians ARE Europeans.
EU is not the same as Europe, I thought everyone execpt ukronazists knew that.
I fail to understand all this about if Russia should be identified as European, especially give the geography, and how ‘European’ was defined by those living in a relatively small part of the Eurasian continent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continent
A continent is one of several very large landmasses on Earth. Generally identified by convention rather than any strict criteria, up to seven regions are commonly regarded as continents. Ordered from largest in size to smallest, they are: Asia, Africa, North America, South America, Antarctica, Europe, and Australia.[1] In geology, areas of continental crust include regions covered with water.
[see the map https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/Continental_models-Australia.gif ]
…
The criterion of a discrete landmass is completely disregarded if the continuous landmass of Eurasia is classified as two separate continents: Europe and Asia. Physiographically, Europe and South Asia are peninsulas of the Eurasian landmass. However, Europe is widely considered a continent with its comparatively large land area of 10,180,000 square kilometres (3,930,000 sq mi), while South Asia, with less than half that area, is considered a subcontinent. The alternative view—in geology and geography—that Eurasia is a single continent results in a six-continent view of the world. Some view separation of Eurasia into Europe and Asia as a residue of Eurocentrism: “In physical, cultural and historical diversity, China and India are comparable to the entire European landmass, not to a single European country. […].”[12] However, for historical and cultural reasons, the view of Europe as a separate continent continues in several categorizations.
If continents are defined strictly as discrete landmasses, embracing all the contiguous land of a body, then Asia, Europe and Africa form a single continent which may be referred to as Afro-Eurasia. This produces a four-continent model consisting of Afro-Eurasia, America, Antarctica and Australia.
[…]
———-
If I went to the store and bought a leg of lamb, but when I got home it turned out to be just the tail, I would not be pleased.
‘How many legs does a dog have if you call his tail a leg? Four. Saying that a tail is a leg doesn’t make it a leg. __Abraham Lincoln [alledgedly]’.
How do areas of Russia which are East of China work out to be in Europe?
Europe is a geographical region; EU is a political entity. These are two different qualities of classification and abstraction, even though EU countries are within the geographical are. While grass is often colored green you can’t say grass *is* green any more than green *is* grass — one is a plant while the other is a color. When one talks of Europe or Russia it should be clear whether one is talking geography or politics, and the geography can’t be used to determine politics because politics is determined by people, culture, and law.
This sort of confusion with abstractions and language is everywhere, and can be very destructive. For instance, people talk about socialism (or communism) vs democracy, where one is primarily an economic system and the other a political system, and there is no problem at all with a democratic, communist nation. Authoritarian or oligarchical socialism is filled with internal contradictions but it is sort of possible for a while, much as democratic capitalism is sort of possible even while not sustainable — this because political economics is a system encompassing both politics and economics which, if not internally consistent, tears itself apart. Authoritarian central control, and authoritarian econo9mics, is anti-democratic (as we see in the EU).
Russia is not European — Russia is Russian, which in itself has so much variety it is difficult to reconcile, and requires a unifying political system. Russia is not only geographically distinct from Europe, but also politically distinct, and European politics, either of any one country, the EU, or of European culture, can not be applied to Russia. This is like trying to say that China, Iraq, or Libya is European — it stretches the abstraction so far it no longer means anything, and is not useful. Abstractions and words should help clarify, not obscure.
Always these endless — and, may I add, totally pointless — opinions about Russia’s “European-ness”. It’s trivial:
Russia is part of Europe as regards history, religion, language, but unlike most other Furopeans, they are no chauvinist, degenerate Euro-trash. Simple as that.
It’s not simple at all, nor trivial, despite whatever glib pronouncements anyone might make, and there is a great deal of Russia which is not rooted in Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Russia
“Of all the languages of Russia, Russian is the only official language at the national level. There are 35 different languages which are considered official languages in various regions of Russia, along with Russian. There are over 100 minority languages spoken in Russia today.[4]”
People who say Russia is part of Europe are generally trying to use fallacies and linguistic propaganda to preclude dissent from whatever political line they are pushing, and this should not be ignored or permitted to go unchallenged. Even using the word ‘European’ or ‘American’ (and unAmerican) is often for this sort of purpose.
Should we also say that the nations of South America, or Mexico are European because of history, religion, and language? Is the US European for those same reasons? We can see how such reasoning in these cases breaks down utterly.
Well, I for one did not miss the significance of this event and headed straight over to this site to see what it’s view was.
Kindly note that this post is not written to just bash the Ukraine and its people — it is to sum up several considerations in one place and, with that as background, ask a serious question : has the behavior of the Ukranians ever been different ? (By “Ukrainians” I mean the politicians there — not the mass of people. Same as with USA : neocons are parasites on us, claiming to act in our name). Compiled from old notes and subject to memory glitches/omissions.
I became very interested in the history of the Civil War in the south of Russia through collecting the stamps, mailed letters &c. from there, 40+ years ago. From reading various accounts of the history behind them, the Ukrainians’ behavior struck me as craziness compounded by greed.
Begin in 1918. They declare that Ukrainia is an independent state. Many places were doing this (Azerbaijan, Armenia, Georgia, etc.). But mere independence was not enough to satisfy them. They wanted to seize all of South Russia and rule it. They could not do this militarily, so they staged various provocations.
For example, they refused to deliver mail from the rest of Russia to Crimea unless Crimea were given to them. They similarly raised their mailing rates so that any letter, post card &c. that was sent to an address in the Ukraine had to have additional postage, paid in Ukrainian stamps (Tzarist stamps they marked with trident emblems). This obstructionism went on until they realized the Donetz Basin was so weakly defended after the German army departed, and was in such immanent danger of invasion by the Red Army (and depredations by anarchist bands of “Greens”) that Hetman Skoropadskiy had to appeal to the Don Krug to defend it. So Ataman General Krasnov sent Gen. Mai-Maievsky with a detachment of Don Cossacks there in November, 1918. It was not until the French navy occupied Odessa and Sevastopol and the Special Conference Army of Gen. Denikin occupied the Ukraine that it was finally (relatively) secure.
Instead of being grateful for their deliverance and co-operating with Gen. Denikin, Ukrainian forces continued trying to subvert the White cause by their agitations in the Kuban Krug, much like the Soros-Clinton cabal in Washington. The resulting obstructionism of the Kuban Cossack government (which refused amalgamation with the SC) became such a distraction that Denikin had to go to Ekaterinodar himself and hang the worst of them.
When is even more strange is that the Ukrainian agents there would have been hated by the Cossacks in the Ranks, who called Ukrainians (as I recall reading) “Hokols” (a term of contempt not greatly unlike “n*gger” in English). So it seems that bribery in the Krug may have overcome the natural objections to them and greased the wheels ?
The territorial ambitions of the Ukrainians are no new thing in the world and should come as no surprise ! Nor is (should be) the governmental venality there that was so extreme that the SC Government postal system, which accepted the old kopeck-denomination stamps with tridents added, demonitized the Ruble denominations, which had been stolen from the regional postal administration headquarters in great numbers before the SC forces occupied the area and could be sold at a discount to rob the postal system (which also transferred people’s money from one place to another) (the postal system in Russia was also the banking system — Rothschild private banks not welcome).
My question, then, is whether history is not simply repeating itself — specifically, whether the events of 1918-1919 were not the expression of the same design seen today ? And if so, has no one considered it significant enough to comment on it ?
I am sure somebody more familiar with the history of those years there could do a better job of this than I have, but better a poor (possibly defective) (?) one than none.
A fabulous post, talks-to-cats.
‘Behemoth’ himself (The Master and Margarita) would be purring while reading it.
You may purr too when you look at the region in question on this time-lapse map:
http://geacron.com/home-en/?&sid=GeaCron690354
Update on 3. After the meeting in Moskow Deinego anounced that DNR and LNR will not nationalize the industry in Donbas but only introduce temporary external rulling.
Saker, do you allow материться in Russian?
R
Any chance of a map delineating the likely border please?
Plus a map of those areas of Donbas still, technically, under Ukronazi control?
This most certainly does look like the beginning of the end doesn’t it, although I’m surprised there has not been another military push by the UkroAmerican forces against the breakaway republic.
Perhaps American feels, despite the murder of Motorolla, Givi and Churkin, that they do not have a reliable army in Ukraine any more, not that they ever did!
Forget Trump, he is finished, the CIA now clearly runs US foreign policy. It will be all Trump can do to hold his own in Washington with the soft coup being led by Obama, Rothschild and Soros.
Ironic really, ‘he who lives by the sword dies by the sword’, as the saying goes! America is dying by a thousand strokes of that sword.
The AngloZionists (Rothschild) are talking about America joining the British Commonwealth.
Sounds like the end game for the USA. It is all over bar the shouting!
Sounds like the end game for the USA. It is all over bar the shouting!
“Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated.” — Mark Twain
Know this guy?
https://ua.linkedin.com/in/mykola-vorobiov-222b11111
Photos:
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/10620362_784964218209676_8093161814417701491_o.jpg?oh=f25834b97d776e5922f9f4a669d4ee7d&oe=5937091B
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1234590_1036154616423967_6944979594065607765_n.jpg?oh=1585be93c4b9f48bc9e14ab68020630b&oe=5929A098
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14907085_1203799029659524_2525879466507122229_n.jpg?oh=56379bb9bb4d494a1e0bf91d6f5bcdf2&oe=592EDBB7
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/457257_374450585927710_1726831120_o.jpg?oh=33058e5775bf2e428ff7d077b70ecbb1&oe=5972A7C4
They come in all “sizes”.
Thanks to Libertine on another Forum.
Take Care
Kent
Monsanto executives must be going crazy at the thought of losing all that fertile Ukrainian farm land they thought was theirs for the taking.
If that happens, it’s not a good news for Russia.
Moscow’s strategic goal is to maintain Donbass INSIDE ukrainians borders in order to paralize Kiev and impede Urkaine to join NATO.
Thanks for the clarifying summary. Appreciate it!
I have a question. Fort Russ reported that hundreds of foreign mercenaries from USA, Canada, the Baltic States, Poland and Georgia have arrived along the line of contact with the Lugansk People’s Republic. I was a bit confused because Canadian Armed Forces just announced that they are extending their support to Ukraine with regular armed forces personnel.
So who are the mercenaries? Members of Garda, Canada’s Blackwater perhaps? (Which I read about here: http://www.globalresearch.ca/garda-canadas-blackwater-the-worlds-largest-privately-held-security-firm/5519365) According to this article, Garda won a slew of lucrative contracts in Libya, providing security for a number of international oil companies and their service providers. Aha – oil companies… Hunter Biden’s connection to Ukraine, isn’t it?
So are these mercenaries a private army (as opposed to affiliated with the regular Canadian troops – and how does that work on the ground, anyway??) And if they are a private army, who’s hired them? Kolomoiskii? Poroshenko? Biden?
Neo-Fascist Canada persists in its neo-evildoing. In spite of being found out: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/freeland-knew-her-grandfather-was-editor-of-nazi-newspaper/article34236881/
Finally serious steps to establish a new Donbas NovoRussia territory and then an independent country. A country with it own police and armed forces that won’t put up with shelling or terrorism. A country which pays no tribute to rump rulers nazis and goons.