The Serbian Demographic Crisis | The Vineyard of the Saker

by Wolfson

A couple of weeks ago there was a stir in the Serbian media as a UN World Population Prospect report was released.^[1] Today there are 8.851.000 people inhabiting Serbia. In 2030 there will be 8.218.000, in 2050 there will be 7.331.000 and finally in 2100 there will be a measly 5.334.000 people living there.

These numbers include Kosovo and Metohija which is now predominantly Albanian, meaning they are skewed seeing as the Albanians reproduce at a higher rate than the Serbs. A report^[2] published in 2012 by the Republican Institute of Statistics of Serbia paints a much more grim and realistic picture.

“The Serbian population is 2 years older than it was a decade ago. There are more women than men and most citizens are aged 58”

“This year’s census has shown that there are 7.186.862 people living in Serbia, 51.3% are women. Last year, not a single child was born in 1500 settlements and the total population number has dropped by 4%”

“The average age of the Serbian population in 42.2”

“Some 1000 settlements, i.e. one in five, have less than 100 people”

Three main events, have contributed to such a situation. WW1, WW2 and the NATO aggression of 1999.

World War One

World War One, while being one of the brightest moments in Serbian history from a moral aspect was a complete disaster demographically. While there is no consensus on the number of victims of The Great War, the numbers given by the Delegation of the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes at the Paris Peace Conference of 1919 are widely accepted.

The total military losses of the Serbian army were 402.435 dead during the period July 1914 – November 1918.^[3] The civilian casualties were even higher. That means that since the number of mobilized troops was 712.005, Serbia lost more than half of the men it mobilized.

The numbers are even worse where the civilian population is concerned.³

“Civilians were victims of bombings, occupiers’ crimes (mass executions), infectious diseases, lack of medicine, deportation and difficult conditions in concentration camps, forced mobilizations, hunger, etc. For example, it is noted that in 1917 Bulgarian occupiers massacred 20,000 civilians in Toplica district alone; that during three years of occupation of Serbia, approximately 182,000 persons were interned or deported to Bulgaria, Austro-Hungary, or Germany, and that of these, 80,000 died during transportation or were killed in concentration camps. Especially large losses were caused by the epidemic typhus which in 1915 alone killed 350,000 civilians.”

A total of 845.000 civilians lost their lives during this period.^[4] Before the war the number of people living in Serbia was 4.500.000 while after the war that number had dropped to 3.300.000, a decrease of 1.200.000. If we take into account the fact that Serbia would have numbered 5.200.000 in 1919 had there been no war^[5], the number of casualties is 1.900.000. A devastating blow to such a small country. The number of men lost meant that entire villages were completely devoid of male inhabitants, further decreasing the reproductive capabilities of the small Balkan nation.

World War Two

As is the case with WW1, the number of Serbs killed during WW2 is not agreed upon exactly. But it is enough to look at just one place of death and suffering to understand the magnitude of the losses sustained by the Serbian people during World War 2, and that is the Jasenovac concentration camp. The largest concentration camp in the Independent State of Croatia and the third largest in Nazi occupied Europe.

The Yad Vashem Center states that more than 500.000 Serbs were murdered in Croatia^[6], in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust one can find that some 600.000 people were murdered at Jasenovac, mostly Serbs, Jews, Gypsies, and opponents of the Ustashe regime. The number of Jewish victims was between twenty thousand and twenty-five thousand, most of whom were murdered there up to August 1942, when deportation of the Croatian Jews to Auschwitz for extermination began.^[7]

Another source is the memoir of Dr. Hermann Neubacher who noted in it that the Ustasha themselves boasted of killing a million Serbs altogether, although he thought 750,000 was a more likely number. Granted, not all were killed in Jasenovac.^[8]

And this was just one concentration camp. When one considers the ethnic cleansing committed in occupied Serbia by the Germans, the ethnic cleansing committed (with the blessing of Mussolini’s Italy) by the Albanians in Kosovo and the communist purges after the Partisans came to power, an understanding of the scale of death and destruction emerges.

The NATO Aggression

Compared to the previous two events, the NATO aggression that took place in 1999 was nowhere near as bad with regards to the number of dead. While over 2000 civilians lost their lives, 88 of them being children^[9], the real blow to Serbia was dealt by destroying its economy and infrastructure, poisoning the environment and installing pro-Western lackeys into office.

Destroying its economy and infrastructure sent Serbia back to the third world. It is estimated that the damage done by NATO exceeds 100 billion USD^[10]. NATO’s humanitarianism did not stop there. Nearly 10 tons of depleted uranium were dropped on the small Balkan country^[11] causing a drastic increase in cancer rates^[12].

Even after all this it looked as if Serbia might be able to recover, but then came October 5^th and the Western backed ouster of Slobodan Milosevic. What came after is what we see in the Ukraine today. Politicians grabbing as much as they can for themselves, a decreasing living standard and an extremely high unemployment rate.

This kind of situation contributes to population loss in two ways. Firstly, people just stop having children or limit themselves to one offspring since they cannot afford to have any more. Having children has become a luxury. Secondly, the infamous brain drain, which is responsible for 32.000 people leaving Serbia every year^[13].

The situation is dire. The regime in power in Serbia today has turned the country into a banana republic. The interests of Washington and Brussels are the only interests of the ruling “elite”, and since a strong and prosperous Serbia is viewed as a threat by these centers of power, it is unreasonable to expect the puppets to do anything.

Something must be done. The economy must be resurrected and the Serbian people given a sense of purpose. The battle is far from lost. There is a Serbian diaspora numbering in the millions that could be persuaded to return (or at the very least financially help) under the right conditions. Persuaded to return to a country of which 60% is farmable, which has an abundance of drinking water and which is rich with natural resources. A country which could become an example of social and economic welfare.

But that something must be done now. The option of waiting for things to happen by themselves is off the table since within a decade the Serbian people will no longer be able to demographically recover.

That means that if something is not done within the next decade, the people who gave the world scientists like Nikola Tesla, athletes like Novak Djokovic and revolutionaries like Petar Karadjordje might not be around in two centuries’ time.

Purple Library Guy on September 24, 2015 · at 5:51 pm EST/EDT

Frankly, I find it hard to discuss with this kind of raving. It seems fashionable around Russia and Eastern Europe, but all this “Eugenics” and “The (other race) hordes are gonna outbreed us!” stuff is really, really dumb. It’s sort of understandable given some circumstances in those areas, but basically it’s spread by fascists and it’s all about fear and failing to think through things.

There are basically two kinds of economic/political disaster, it seems. When there’s a sort of surface normalcy but everything costs too much and people are living on the ragged edge, reproduction goes down. The whole “can’t afford children” thing as mentioned in the article.
When there’s war and chaos or complete squalor and lack of any infrastructure, reproduction goes up. Everyone’s desperate, there’s no birth control, screw like rabbits for tomorrow we die; the evolution engines deep in us scream, “Maybe if we make enough kids some will make it through!”

So sure, just now various areas are probably seeing some fast population expansion. That’s ’cause they’re more toast than even Eastern Europe, which in turn is because while in most of Eastern Europe the Empire is getting what they want via vampirism, draining the blood out slowly, in the Middle East and Africa the Empire is mostly getting what they want by hacking with machetes and taking the blood as it spurts. And they’ve been doing it for a long time. But immigrants quickly adopt the reproduction speed of the places they settle, unless they get kept as an underclass with a different economic situation from everyone else (or in the case of Israel, the immigrant Jews have formed an overclass and turned the existing locals into an underclass, which is why the reproduction rates between Israelis and Palestinians are different and why Israel is always so terrified of the “demographic bomb” where they’ll be outnumbered again in time–but the irony is that if they had treated the Palestinians well the Palestinians would be breeding at the same rate they are and so it wouldn’t be a problem; they created the “demographic bomb” they fear).

Similarly, countries in Africa and the Middle East will see their population stop growing if we can get the Empire to stop breaking them. We’re all the same species. Fast reproduction isn’t some genetic property of darkies, it’s just the same kind of thing that made the Baby Boom in America, combined with little access to birth control. Thinking of little access to birth control, you know who has systematically blocked access to birth control? The Christian Right, the US government under George W. Bush, and the Catholic Church. But these people are supposedly plotting to reduce population? Please.

As to whether “technically” it might be possible for more billions to live on this planet. I doubt that’s even true in any remotely plausible sense, but even if it were it would be irrelevant. That is, “technically”, if you could have a perfect dictatorship which had perfect information about and control over food production and distribution and which forced everyone to be vegetarian and dictated portion sizes at restaurants and had your grocery shopping on a schedule, or better yet, had everyone eating at large central cafeterias, so they could know exactly how much food needed to be transported when, so none was ever wasted, and bla bla bla, then no doubt we’d waste much less food and the current bunch of people would be harming the planet less and possibly there would be room for even more billions. But that ain’t gonna happen, so it doesn’t matter.
In the real world, every year we have more “overshoot”, using more of the renewable resources than get generated. Every year we exhaust more soil, and UN organization plaintively cry that in a few decades half of it’s gonna blow away. Every year we fish out more of the sea, with the ocean now apparently down to half the biomass it had in 1970. Should I even bother to mention forests? People’s insistence on putting their heads in the sand about this stuff makes me sick.

Does anyone ever explain why exactly the big bosses are supposed to want fewer people? Have any of you people ever listened to the right wing on the subject of population and economic growth and stuff? They hate when populations shrink. They want ever more peons; they don’t care how crowded they get, how much squalor they live in or whether they’re all half starved. Far as they’re concerned, more people == economic growth, less people == economic shrinkage, fewer people to boss around, smaller reserve army of labour to keep the ones they do need metaphorically hungry (while the ones they don’t need are literally hungry). The world population has doubled in a few decades and how often do you ever see the mainstream media worry about this compared to how often they whine about population plateauing in Japan?

Furthermore, the big bosses are WHITE. Oh, not all of them, but most of them. The centre of gravity, the real dominance, is white guys who speak English. So where do we get all this stuff where there’s a “Eugenic plot” to replace all the people they’re not particularly racist against with people they are racist against? And face it, they’re not afraid of Serbians. They’re not afraid of Europeans generally. You guys are bleedin’ poodles when it comes to resisting the empire, why on earth would they be afraid of you? You think you’re special chosen ones, the ones the empire is specially paying attention to and directing all its efforts to holding you down? It is to laugh. Latin America they’re worried about, China they’re worried about, Russia they’re worried about. Most of Eastern Europe they’re controlling with one pinky finger and they wouldn’t even need that if it weren’t for the Russians nearby. And the EU is controlling itself for them.

144 Comments

The Wend on September 23, 2015 · at 2:49 pm EST/EDT

Well, well.

I am absolutely sure that Serbia can only recover if Russia helps. In the same way that Russia helped Belarus. ( Belarus is the only Slavic country which didn’t suffer demographic decline from 1991. to 2010.)

Situation is Serbia is hopeless today.

Nobody seems to care among the elites anymore. We need to enter the Eurasian union!!! We need to enter CSTO!!! There is no alternative. Russia must invest in the pro-Russian political parties here. Russia must make free media here. Russia must build that damn pipeline through Serbia!!! We are surrounded with mortal enemies. The government is repeating that Serbia must enter the EU which would be suicidal for Serbia.

Pay attention to the fact that in Serbia over 75% of population is pro-Putin and pro-Russia.

Russia betrayed Serbia in 1999. big time. It is time for Russia to pay its debt to her only ally in Europe besides Belarus.

The unavoidable first step must be this one: unification of Serbia and Republika Srpska. In Republika Srpska there is over 1.3 million Serbs. We desperately need these Serbs and their territory to officially become a part of Serbia.

Otherwise the Serbs will suffer the fate of their northern branch, the Lusatian Serbs (also known as Wends or Sorbs) who are only 60 000 now, in Germany.
- Arizona An-cap on September 23, 2015 · at 3:32 pm EST/EDT
  
  Greetings fellow Wend!
  Agreed. There are plenty of Americans who are sick and tired of the increasingly high taxes, infringements on civil liberties, and criminalization of everything here. If they encouraged anyone with any Serb or Sorb ancestry to immigrate, I’d seriously consider it – but only if Serbia embarked on a path of economic independence, based on cordial relations both with the EU and Russia. I agree also about Republica Srpska. Bosnia is an artificial country that should be partitioned between Serbia and Croatia.
  - Diaspora_M on September 23, 2015 · at 6:41 pm EST/EDT
    
    Sitting between two fires is what destroyed Yugoslavia in the first place. Always the scales of Balance between two super powers always the scale is broken when the powers clash.
    
    So what do we know is happening for sure. The West is in an unstable decline, the Russians are holding their own and the chinese are rising with stops and starts.
    
    So now is not the time to be the scales. Pick a side and stick with it. In the barfight, the guy in the middle trying to stop it always catches the worst beating… Same thing in the nation state bar brawls.
- Nemo on September 23, 2015 · at 3:34 pm EST/EDT
  
  That kind of thinking is what started WWI and got 2 million Serbs dead in the first place. Russia is having her own demographic issues, although less sever and less urgent than Serbia.
- Martin from S.E.B. on September 23, 2015 · at 3:55 pm EST/EDT
  
  @ The Wend:
  
  Perfectly said, cannot agree more.
  And of course Yeltsin has committed high treason, not only to the Yugoslavs btw, but at least equally as much to the Wostochnoslavs.
  
  However, if we are talking about treason: Not Russia started, but Tito did.
  He thought it is better to be friends with the USA and mistakenly took it for granted that the USA know at least remotely the meaning of the words (“friendship”/”mutual trust”).
  
  I sometimes wished Putin would be a little more a new Stalin (but I know that times have changed, and that the Soviet Army was much larger and this can only be improved slowly and carefully, step by step).
  
  Well, let’s hope the Best!
  Attention: Serbia is already losing the teenagers to ZioGanda/TV/Hollywood.
  
  Those aged 20-25 respond to my “Long live Yugoslavia!” with “Log live Serbia!”.
  Ok, better than nothing.
  
  But while I can confirm that many are against the damn West the little ones are wearing clothes with some slogans like “Camp David” or “I love America”.
  Sad thruth :(
  
  And many businesses/shops/grocery stores/resturants/hotels/bakeries and all that are calling themselves with western names, such as a bakery in Kikinda calls itself “Evropa”.
  When I saw that I went back and complained, but the lady replied: Yugoslavia is dead”.
  And you see more and more stuff written in latin rather than Cyrillic :-(
  
  A true miracle needs to happen …
  
  BTW: The Sorbs here in Eastern Germany were ripped off their identity when the first unified German Empire came into existance (1871) and when many new laws were created, such as affecting schools/education. I doubt that more than a few percent of them actually still understands their own language.
  
  BTW#2: The Serbs should never have permitted Albanians to settle in Yugoslavia after the experiences with half a millennium of ottoman occupation.
  In my view it can be compared what currently happens to the old EU nations to what happened to Serbia vs. Kosovo. The muslim vs. christian demographic disparity leads to our 100% undeniable sure extinction. One day Germany or France or the UK wuill be little more than Islamic Kaliphates aka Kosovo. The day will come when they will either conquer all of Europe or at least start by claiming their own islamic enclaves, as independent states. Time and biology is on their side.
  - Andrew on September 25, 2015 · at 3:11 pm EST/EDT
    
    “The muslim vs. christian demographic disparity leads to our 100% undeniable sure extinction.”
    
    Its not as if Muslims are better at having sex than Christians, so this can only result from Christians sinning by using birth control.
    
    If this demographic disparity worries you, go do something about it by becoming a father of a large family like I did.
- Republika Srpska on September 23, 2015 · at 6:15 pm EST/EDT
  
  Russia didn’t betray us. She did what she could… considering circumstances. And yeah, first thing after the death of the Western colonizers’ world ought to be our Eastern “world order.” Uniting Serbia, Rep Serbska, Montenegro and Macedonia, for starters. Then there ought to be quite a big redefining of borders in the Middle East: as you probably know, their borders were defined by France and Britain after the WW1 (infamous Sykes-Picot Agreement – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement). Most of the unrest, troubles and disorder that has been ravaging that part of the world came from there (and oil, of course). It all came from Western colonizers who were always keen on defining how the people everywhere on the planet ought to live.
  - jomo on September 23, 2015 · at 10:11 pm EST/EDT
    
    Russia did betray Bosnian Serbs. Slovenian journalist wrote a 3-part well documented and researched book about their country’s involvement in weapons smuggling and selling to the Bosnian Muslims, and Russian arms merchants were selling heavily through the Slovene’s for the Bosnian Muslims.
    Also Boris Yeltsin was used by the west to ask Bosnian Serbs to halt when they were at their peak and controlled the most land.
    
    Russians also threatened to cut off Serbia’s gas supplies for overdue bills in the run-up to Milosevic’s re-election in October 2000. At that crucial time they were issuing threats.
    
    And Russia forgave Afghanistan BILLIONS in debt but have never forgiven any debt, to the best of my knowledge, for Serbia.
    
    Russia did not help in the rebuilding after the NATO bombing when Milosevic was still in power and construction workers were working day and night – and doing a such a speedy job too that even enemy propagandist CNN was remarking on it.
    
    Now since then Russia has helped with de-mining and has help send water-bomber planes to put out some fires a few summers ago.
    
    But Russia probably made more in arms sales to the Bosnian Muslims than its ever helped Serbia financially.
    - Verami on September 24, 2015 · at 5:20 am EST/EDT
      
      “Russia did betray Bosnian Serbs. Slovenian journalist wrote a 3-part well documented and researched book about their country’s involvement in weapons smuggling and selling to the Bosnian Muslims, and Russian arms merchants were selling heavily through the Slovene’s for the Bosnian Muslims”
      
      And no doubt he would have relished writing it.
      But it wasn’t the Russian government selling the arms to Bosnian Muslims.
      Did the Slovenian journalist also forget to mention that those arms dealers, although of Russian nationality, were nearly all non- Russian Orthodox?
      Nor were they Muslims.
      
      In any case even if they had been fellow Orthodox Christians it would be hardly enough reason to accuse all Russians of betrayal.
      Especially when we Serbs have our own stellar traitors such as Srdja Popovic, Natasha Kandic, Sonja Biserko etc. or those staffing The Centre For Cultural Decontamination ( whose agenda it seems is to eradicate anything Serbian in Serbia’s culture ) and even a much acclaimed by the West women’s street theatre troupe called The Women In Black dedicated to sullying Serbian history and insulting the reputation of just about anyone who ever fought for Serbia.
    - Republika Srpska on September 24, 2015 · at 2:09 pm EST/EDT
      
      Russia did not betray Bosnian Serbs nor did she betray us – Serbs from Republika Srpska. Bosnian Serbs were ethnically cleansed by Bosnians after the war, and Russia had no part in it. Russia did not sell arms to Bosnians who you call “Bosnian Muslims”. The West and the Arab countries did (and there was no selling of anything since Bosnians couldn’t afford to buiy anything – even there you go on lying). The rest of your story are outright lies or lahf-truths as well.
  - Anonymous on September 24, 2015 · at 9:02 pm EST/EDT
    
    — Russia didn’t betray us. She did what she could… considering circumstances.
    You are quite right.
    shed
- Daniel on September 23, 2015 · at 8:14 pm EST/EDT
  
  “Russia betrayed Serbia in 1999. big time. It is time for Russia to pay its debt to her only ally in Europe besides Belarus”
  
  How can you say something foolish like that? What obligations does Russia have to Serbia at all? I will answer you, non what so ever! Russia couldn’t help it self in those years let alone Serbia. What debt are you talking about, what does Russia owe Serbia? Nothing. Russia has always helped Serbia thru history, when it was in position to do so, but to put it as you did my friend, is tasteless and rude.
  
  P.S Long live the brotherly nation of Russia, greetings from a Serbian fellow.
  - jomo on September 23, 2015 · at 10:19 pm EST/EDT
    
    Russian arms merchants were selling HEAVILY to the Croats and Bosnian Muslims. It is outlined by Slovenian journalists (who wrote a three-part trilogy on their country’s huge involvement with arms smuggling for the Bosnian Muslims).
    - Daniel on September 23, 2015 · at 10:58 pm EST/EDT
      
      I know quite a few Serbian arms merchants who did the same, so what’s your point?
- Anonymous on September 24, 2015 · at 10:28 am EST/EDT
  
  Russia has always stood for Serbia in the past, they even lost their empire trying to help Serbia. Then Tito repays it with betrayal by sucking up to the West, the 90s were the lowest point in recent Russian history, foreigners and dual citizens plundering the country of all value, now you have the gall to demand Russia should have further shouldered you despite its own suffering? Have you no shame? Besides when has Serbia ever helped Russia in her times of trouble.
  PS Russia recently backed Serbia in denying the labeling of the Srebrenica incident as a ‘genocide’ while your govt just silently sit and do nothing while the whole Western establishment demonizes Russia.
  - Verami on September 24, 2015 · at 2:08 pm EST/EDT
    
    Tito was a Croat/Slovene not a Serb.
    
    Some think it’s even possible that he may have been a complete foreigner.
    http://20committee.com/2012/07/10/was-tito-really-tito/
Daniel on September 23, 2015 · at 3:06 pm EST/EDT

We, Serbs, as a people are waiting what the outcome of the struggle between the Empire of Evil (US and satraps) and Empire of Good (Russia and others) is going to be. If the West wins, then we are screwed and the West will move towards the last phase of the destruction and annihilation of Serbs from this world. If the forces of Good prevail, then history will continue for us and we may have a chance. The biggest problem for us is the overall lethargy and apathy. The population is under a soft occupation and the process of dummification is being accelerated. Education system has been dismantled too. The current regime is a stooge of the West and, perhaps because they can smell the change in the air, has been openly serving the West whilst pretending to be friendly towards Russia. Serbs have played out the most important role in providing Russia with valuable time to consolidate. As the Western fascist phalanx were busy with bombing of Serbs across the Balkans, Russia got some valuable time to fight its inner demons and get ready for the fight that is coming. Although many Serbs have crossed to the Western camp, the vast majority still views Russia as a brotherly nation. What is scary is that the encumbent Prime Minister of Serbia openly belittles the nation and is seeking to “change the mindset” of people and even says that the Protestant way is the only way often citing some obscure Western philosophers and authors. The guy is on a mission. Perhaps the current migrant crisis will help him swap the Serbs with more valiant and to-him-more-useful Arabs as the majority of the people mass is moving through Serbia. He has been asked and perhaps ordered by mutti Merkel to settle the passing millions of Arabs in now mostly depopulated Serbia which has become a playground for the Emirs who have been buying land and other property for peanuts. God help us.
Daniel on September 23, 2015 · at 3:18 pm EST/EDT

Brother Wend, Russia did not betray the Serbs during the ’90s. If it weren’t for Russia, we would not exist today. The Americans and NATO would not have stopped until they wiped out every single one of us. Just have a look at what they have done to Libya and Syria, Iraq, Avganistan, etc.

We betrayed Russia (then part of USSR) in 1948 when we unofficially became part of NATO by standing behind Tito when he said “No” to Stalin and Russia. We have to learn who our real friends and real foes are. Methinks we are on the way to learn that thanks to the Western relentless pursuit of destruction of Serbs in the Balkans.
- jomo on September 23, 2015 · at 10:17 pm EST/EDT
  
  NATO stopped because it got what it wanted: Kosovo and had all the Serbian security forces out.
  
  And Russia was selling weapons to the Bosnian Muslims throughout the war.
  
  Russia was also sending weapons for the Croats. There was a special Croatian island for these deliveries.
  
  Of course Germany and the western countries were smuggling and financing the weapons smuggling as well.
  - Verami on September 24, 2015 · at 5:54 am EST/EDT
    
    NATO didn’t get quite everything it wanted.
    At the Rambouillet “talks” NATO demanded the right of free passage throughout all of Serbia not just in Kosovo.
    NATO also demanded that Serbia sign a waiver giving occupying NATO troops complete immunity from future legal prosecution.
    - Dragan on September 24, 2015 · at 11:40 am EST/EDT
      
      Have you noticed Verami,how Rambouillet looks pretty same as Austro-Hungarian Monarchy’s ultimatum to Serbia in 1914?
      - Verami on September 24, 2015 · at 1:46 pm EST/EDT
        
        Very much so.
        But this time Russia was in no position to help.
        Russia was bankrupt, had itself just narrowly avoided civil war and was ruled by a cabal of oligarchs, nearly all of them non ethnic Russian, who were robbing the country naked with the West’s connivance.
        Yeltsin was the figurehead leader of Russia but really nothing more than their sock puppet.
        
        But the 1999 NATO bombing of Serbia had served as a wake up call to others in Russia because by the end of that year Yeltsin had been replaced by Putin, the days of the oligarchy were numbered, and Russia under Putin was on the road to recovery.
      - Waxer on September 24, 2015 · at 1:52 pm EST/EDT
        
        Yes, it looks very similar.
        On the other hand, Dacic signed almost everything from Rambouillet a year or two ago.
teranam13 on September 23, 2015 · at 3:21 pm EST/EDT

demographics: Don’t the EU bigwigs want to put lots of Muslim refugees there? After all in that way two nation states and cultures get destroyed and dissolved into the grey leveling of the Western monoculture..With the infrastructure of both Syria and Serbia leveled there will be no chance of reconstituting these wonderful human ecosystems using the resources of those who fled abroad.
Nemo on September 23, 2015 · at 3:32 pm EST/EDT

All these European countries with aging declining urban population are going to wake up one day and discover there is no petrol to be had, food is too expensive to import and there is no one to farm the land. I guess then they will change their tune and start accepting migrants to work the land.

The most humanitarian thing to do is to abolish the “humanitarian” laws of the EU and just settle the migrants as second-class disfranchised land workers, they can have a plot of arable fertile land they can settle and work and they have to give up part of the yield in kind and this can be used to feed the cities.

I know it sounds crazy to bring back feudalism, but it would solve everybody’s problems in one strike! And in a couple of generation the disenfranchised rural population will take over the country as the city dwellers die out and turn into a minority, so it all works out at the end!

Hay I am not the one who rejected communism, so don’t blame me if your unfettered capitalism brought back feudal rule ;)
Serbian girl on September 23, 2015 · at 3:46 pm EST/EDT

When I see the pathetic and thuggish existence of some other nations I figure there are worse ways to go then follow in the footsteps of the sumatran tiger or the polar bear.
- Daniel Rich on September 23, 2015 · at 7:11 pm EST/EDT
  
  @ Serbian Girl,
  
  Q; I figure there are worse ways to go then follow in the footsteps of the sumatran tiger or the polar bear.
  
  R; Why not sprint along with the nocturnal leopard gecko, when s/he races to one of its hides, in slow motion?
  
  ‘Without darkness there will only be light, because without light I won’t see a thing.’ – Anonymous night owl.
- Martin from S.E.B. on September 23, 2015 · at 8:03 pm EST/EDT
  
  @ Serbian girl
  
  Well, but that’s also on the agenda for Serbia. Or which precise plans do you have to prevent your “elite” from forcing you into the EU, err, from making you the happiest narod on earth by permitting you to join?
  
  At that point you are equally as doomed, and as long as you don’t have any agenda to stop that from happening there is unfortunately little reason for comparing you to whatever animals. I hate it, but that’s the current situation.
  
  Closing the eyes is as little a real solution as getting drunk.
Republika Srpska on September 23, 2015 · at 5:58 pm EST/EDT

What is this? Western liberal propaganda found its way here? And I thought you said this site is not in a business of propaganda production.

On the subject, suffice is to say that only a moron would go on a breeding spree in an age and day of robotics and autoomatizations where there will be fewer and fewer jobs in the future, and even a bigger moron would satisfy Western oligarchy’s dreams and desires of committing national suicide via importing low skilled people (besides, Serbia has more than enough unemployed, she does not need to import anything: only the export misght exist as a possibility).

And who better demonstrates stupidity of the West than those products of their oligarchy known as liberals. First they admit some parts of the world are breeding in an uncontrollable and for the nature most disastrous fashion, then they go on saying how those who have adapted to their environment should now show compassion and welcome those people. It is not going to happen you mindless Western vermin. You invite those invaders to your own lands, and quit pimping the world you liberal vermin. Nobody shares your values. And I think we should all agree that English speaking world should welcome Africans. They are very compassionate people and love black fold. We are not and we don’t. After all it is the kind of Western imbecility that liberal vermin is well-known of. Leave us alone.

There are going to be 4.2 bn Africans according to UN estimations.
http://www.unz.com/isteve/the-graph-that-explains-the-2015-migrant-crisis/

And here is something interesting. According to this article (http://www.voltairenet.org/article188745.html) eurotrash are having plans to divide those refugges into 3 groups: the 1st group should apparently go to 1st tier countries (Germany, Italy, Belgium, Holalnd etc.); the 2nd group to 3nd tier countries like Poland, Czech rep., Slovakia, etc., and the 3rd group of migrants they think to settle in Serbia and Macedonia. Very disturbing. And very… european thinking of that eurotrash. Eurotrash thinks they will boss around here. They won’t.
- Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 23, 2015 · at 7:46 pm EST/EDT
  
  @ Republika Srpska
  
  My heartily regards to so called BiH !
  
  > (besides, Serbia has more than enough unemployed, she does not
  > need to import anything: only the export misght exist as a possibility).
  […]
  > You invite those invaders to your own lands, and quit pimping the world you l
  > iberal vermin. Nobody shares your values
  
  Comrade! You need to understand:
  Nobody wants them here.
  No reasonable person is inviting them.
  Nobody except some paid and/or totally zombified TV-watchers (useful idiots) is cheering them with “We love you all, WELCOME!” placards.
  
  We have about half a million(!) of homeless in Germany alsone(!).
  There are even officially still 3 to 4 million unemployed here in Germany alone, including scientists, engineers (e.g. myself and my brother) etc etc etc.
  
  NOT WE are calling for those migrants, but enemies of European civilization are.
  Those who own Merkel, the US, wallstreet, the Fed, 98% of newspapers and TV etc.
  
  Barbara Lerner Spectre calls for destruction of Christian European ethnic societies
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFE0qAiofMQ
  
  For more see my links collections, such as in /saker-appeal-for-help-do-you-want-to-actually-do-something-to-resist/#comments and /17-09-2015-crisis-news/#comments
  
  I never thought that I would one day say that, but what we need is Stalin (how he _really_ was).
  Andrei Fursov (Андрей Фурсов) on Stalin and why we need to thank him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkA5u9u3TB0
  - Republika Srpska on September 24, 2015 · at 2:30 pm EST/EDT
    
    Hi Martin.
    
    We are not from BiH. We are from republika Serbska. That Western colony is made of 2 parts: Rep Serbska and Federation of Bosnian and Herzegovina, and only part of the part of the colony named BiH (i.e. land of Bosnia) is where people who claim they are from BiH reside. There are ~ 2 millions of them, and they are mostly atheists. They got name “Muslims” from Yugoslav Constitution of 1974. you know. It’s a sham like everything else with that traitorous people.
    
    You need to get rid of Frau Merkel before she makes German people minority in your own land you know. You need to break free of Anglo-American occupation, spit on their corrupt, unhealthy liberal ideology. Time to German people to wake up too.
    - Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 24, 2015 · at 11:32 pm EST/EDT
      
      Hi Republika Srpska,
      
      I only said BiH because I enter BiH (Passport, green card, all documents blahh blah) but then that’s it. Inside “BiH” you only notice it that you entered Republika Srpska because of the slightly cheaper gas prices and the Welcome signs.
      It’s is about time that you establish a real border on your green line. But no, Dayton doesn’t permit you this. And if you attempted to do so it would mean WAR.
      
      In BiH vs Republika Srpska the situation is in terms of your border regime (lack of) very different from Donbass and PMR.
      
      Merkel: I have given up all hope that anough Germans will ever wake up to anything (other than soccer championship or beer).
      
      Also, she is not my chancellor. I live in S.E.B. and am the highest Soviet representing this nation.
      But joking aside: It’s true.
      
      No, but if I could (and I’m already thinking about and working on concrete steps) I head to Donbass or mainland Russia. However – this means personal reshuffling. Whatever – I live here on the DSL cloud. But Merkel is not my problem anymore.
      
      Bosnia: I met many very friendly people there, and most have nothing to do with Islam.
      And many share our love for communist Yugoslavia (not going into the details of Tito’s errors for a minute, as most average citizens don’t know enough about Stalin anyway).
      
      Vidimo se!
- jomo on September 23, 2015 · at 10:15 pm EST/EDT
  
  “and the 3rd group of migrants they think to settle in Serbia and Macedonia”
  
  Why isn’t Serbia closing its borders – these people are illegal aliens. Most aren’t even Syrians, and the ones that are were living in Turkey, Cyprus and other safe places.
  The true Syrian refugees are in camps or detention centers in Turkey, Jordan, etc. and don’t have the thousands of euros to pay the Turkish traffickers running this route.
  
  Serbian and Macedonia must close it.
Diaspora_M on September 23, 2015 · at 6:33 pm EST/EDT

I’m going to be uncharacteristically frank here and say the following. Russia is going to have to roll up their sleeves and wade in if they want that demographic situation to change.

When there were actual politicians and not puppets in Serbia and they asked for Russian Help, they got a token tank brigade tour as a consolation for what ended up being a wholesale systemic rape of the Serbian population.

So as the Wend said in his own way. Western Intervention wrought this and only another Intervention can undo it.

As for the Diaspora, the conditions are not there to effect meaningful change while the puppet strings are still attached. The diaspora is also looked at as out of touch and foolish often times because they don’t share in the misery. They are balked at, swindled and fleeced at every turn. There is systemic corruption and malaise that prevents reinvigotation. These people need actual hope. They have had their spirit torn from them.

So unless Papa Putin is putting the Borscht on to get them back in shape you will not get more then raspy rooting from the sidelines.

If you can bring back their fighting spirit and show them there is a future you will have your Guardians at the Gate again. Until the Russians find the will to correct that… Well what you see is what you get.
Ezra Pound's Ghost on September 23, 2015 · at 7:45 pm EST/EDT

Isn’t it racist to care about the survival of your own ethnic group?
- Daniel Rich on September 23, 2015 · at 8:22 pm EST/EDT
  
  @ Ezra Pound’s Ghost,
  
  Q; Isn’t it racist to care about the survival of your own ethnic group?
  
  R; Once the survival mechanism itself is fully understood, it will be easier to dissect and implemented.
  
  Wait a minute…
  
  Isn’t that survival mechanism something that’s buried deep in our genetic make-up? Isn’t that what adrenaline’s all about? So you still can run and flee or fight, without feeling then pain of broken bones?
  
  Hmmm, makes it rather complicated, doesn’t it?
- alan on September 23, 2015 · at 11:15 pm EST/EDT
  
  No, it is not “racist” to care about the survival of your own ethnic group. If so, let’s extrapolate – it is then racist/humanist (??) to care about the survival of the human race ?
  Please think clearly. Caring about your own is not racist, what would you call caring about your own family? is that what, racist if it’s the same race? Racism is certainly not “caring”, it is discriminating and abusing against people not of your race.
  In fact, lets turn it the other way round, say you are race X, and you care about survival of race Y, because you see that race Y is “kind of disappearing”, and you think you want to encourage them to procreate, so, is that racist ? If it is not racist because you are not race Y, why should it be racist if you are race Y to begin with?
The Wend on September 23, 2015 · at 7:47 pm EST/EDT

Fellow Serbs, don’t say that Russia didn’t betray Serbia in 1999. That is ridiculous!!!

That drunk bastard, I don’t want even to mention his name, betrayed us blatantly and shamelessly !

I want to remind everyone that his downfall happened exactly because FSB and the Russian military realized the magnitude of what has happened in 1999. over Kosovo. Putin came to power because of the bombing of Serbia.

Anyway, as for those who say that the Serbs wouldn’t even exist today if there is no Russia in this world – it is absolutely correct. (Actually, the same applies for ALL Slavic peoples, including the generally always unthankfull Poles – read today’s news about Polish decision to remove all the monuments to Soviet soldiers who liberated Poland from the Germans – http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150922/1027357750.html#ixzz3mUFE5oWj SCANDAL OF THE FIRST CLASS !!!!).

Regarding this, I recommend to all who read Serbian to look at this prophecy about the Slavs in Europe and Russia made by Dostoevsky some 130 years ago:

http://ruskarec.ru/arts/2015/08/16/slovce_o_slovenima_42681.html

It is always scary to read the genius talking about the future. Scary.
- Martin from S.E.B. on September 23, 2015 · at 8:28 pm EST/EDT
  
  @ The Wend
  
  > don’t say that Russia didn’t betray Serbia in 1999. That is ridiculous!!!
  
  No, you should ask different questions.
  Please explain to me how “Russia” can have betrayed Serbia in 1999, while Russia itself was under 99% US/Israel occupation at that time … ?
- Russian heart on September 23, 2015 · at 8:54 pm EST/EDT
  
  @ The Wend:
  “Fellow Serbs, don’t say that Russia didn’t betray Serbia in 1999. That is ridiculous!!!
  That drunk bastard, I don’t want even to mention his name, betrayed us blatantly and shamelessly !”
  
  Sorry, that drunk bastard was not Russia. Do not you dare to say that he was. He betrayed his own people first of all – the Serbs were the side effect. Russia was on its knees when Serbia was bombed. Russia was on the verge of total collapse. If you do not understand this, you do not understand anything.
  
  And another thing. On Russian message boards, people often discuss our so-called “slavic brothers”, and how they tend to always go after the highest bidder in about 5 minutes after Russians gave their lives for them. Think of Bulgarians, who participated in 2 wars on the side of Russian enemies after all that Russian soldiers did for them – dying in very large numbers to free them from the Ottomans. Sure that Serbs are going to be different?
  - Diaspora_M on September 23, 2015 · at 9:42 pm EST/EDT
    
    So where were the Serbs for those wars? You answer your own question with that preface. Push comes to shove Serbs as Serbs always side with Russia.
    
    Siding with Russia wasn’t always “best” for the Serbs but better an honest if at the time weak ally then a false friend. That dirty german in croat clothing, Tito not withstanding.
    - Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 24, 2015 · at 4:56 am EST/EDT
      
      @ Diaspora_M
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tito%E2%80%93Stalin_Split
      
      and what “dirty german in croat clothing”???
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josip_Broz_Tito
      - Diaspora_M on September 25, 2015 · at 2:07 am EST/EDT
        
        Wait, are those links supposed to make me like and accept Tito?
        
        Stalin turned out to be right in retrospect dont you think?
  - The Wend on September 24, 2015 · at 7:41 pm EST/EDT
    
    Russian heart-
    
    well if the drunk bastard was not Russia then certainly another bastard who was President of Serbia in the 90’s was not Serbia!
    
    And, yet, the whole Western world identified the Serbian people with that communist idiot.
    
    So let’s get serious, shouldn’t we?
    
    Russia betrayed Serbia in the 90’s. These are the exact Saker’s words from one of his first podcasts. Everyone knows this. It is a fact. Period.
    
    However, it is not the worst thing I have seen – Serbia betrayed Serbs in Croatia in 1995.! That was worse.
    
    As for Serbian feelings about Russia, you should know better. When Nikolay Romanov was killed, Serbian king Alexander of Yugoslavia took thousands of White refugees to our country, out of respect and loyalty to the dead tzar. Kingdom of Yugoslavia was so loyal to the Whites that it didn’t recognized USSR until 1940.! Kingdom of Yugoslavia was the last country in Europe to have diplomatic relations with USSR.
    
    As for Tito and Stalin it was another story all together. Even then, my own grandfather was imprisoned by Croat Tito’s regime fro being pro-Soviet in 1948. along with tens of thousands of other Serbs. We went through hell for our love for Russia, and I am talking about my family.
    - Nussiminen on September 24, 2015 · at 7:54 pm EST/EDT
      
      If Yeltsin “was Russia”, then the tacit assumption is that the Russian people were in love with the traitorous oligarchs. Forget about it — Yeltsin remains hated in Russia more than anywhere else. Stop sounding like a Pshek moron; it won’t do you any good.
Roda on September 23, 2015 · at 8:02 pm EST/EDT

Dear All,
The UN report is about population, not politics.
If you include politics in the equation the situation is much worse. It is clear that the NATO mafia aims at separating Vojvodina from Serbia.
Action is needed – urgent!
Поздрав,

Р.
- Martin from S.E.B. on September 23, 2015 · at 8:38 pm EST/EDT
  
  @ Roda: I think the Ruthenians are probably loyal to Serbs (no?).
  Rather the many Hungarians are potential dynamite.
  Even after 95 years a young woman (studying German as foreign language in Subotica) told me in Kikinda that she and her family cannot tell me what Serbs feel about the Soviet Union, because she and her family and their relatives and friends etc. still feel as ethnic Hungarians. This really shocked me (and it was the abrupt end of our little conversation)
  
  So if the usual suspects “prepare a mix”, then this minority would probably be vulnerable to a Maidan.
  
  BUT WHAT NEXT: Republika Srpska would of course with full right demand to finally break off the Frankenstein construct BiH, in order to join Serbia proper (how much it reminds me of Donbass/Ukraine and vice versa)..
  Then we have a chain reaction and it is doubtful that in such a scenario the war could be contained/limited to the Balkans.
  - Martin from S.E.B. on September 23, 2015 · at 8:44 pm EST/EDT
    
    Ethic structure of Vojvodina https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vojvodina#/media/File:Vojvodina_ethnic2002.jpg
    
    Vojvodina Wikipedia page (with salt) : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vojvodina
  - Martin from S.E.B. on September 23, 2015 · at 8:51 pm EST/EDT
    
    Ha! That’s why I said with salt. On the English language Wikipedia page there is a different ethnic map: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vojvodina#/media/File:Vojvodina-Ethnic-2011.GIF
    
    Whatever: Above all the central nothern part (exactly where I usually go there) – this could one day get problematic. Damn, and it directly borders Hungary. Moldova scenario to come???
    It probably could easily be triggered by those who have an interest in setting the world on fire.
    
    Does anybody know if such developments are already ongoing? :-(
    - jomo on September 23, 2015 · at 10:46 pm EST/EDT
      
      It directly borders Hungary, but now Hungary has built a border against it!
      
      Also, do you know how many of those Hungarians might be descendants of those who fled the Hungarian Revolution in the 1950’s.
      It is known that many fled into Yugoslavia and were given refuge.
      But what is not known is how many, if any, stayed.
      There are conflicting reports on this:
      
      Hungarians say they all eventually left for third countries.
      Others, including non-Serbs, claim Tito had some settled in the Vojvodina.
      
      But there are some mixed Serbian-Hungarian families and the peoples are peaceful – quite different than the Albanians who were ALWAYS causing troubles.
      
      Even The New York Times and other U.S. newspapers had reports, in the early to mid eighties, BEFORE Milosevic, of Albanians driving Serbs out of Kosovo.
      Also and a Kosovo Albanian conscript shot and killed fellow Yugoslav soldiers sleeping in the barracks. Most were non-Serb or mixed.
      - Martin from S.E.B. on September 24, 2015 · at 1:27 am EST/EDT
        
        The “border” is a fence which can be teared down in hours and completely removed in some days.
        
        So those refugees fled Hungary back then because they fled the Soviet Union and wanted to be closer to the US? Then this even more increases the liklihood that this time they run into the other direction?
        
        Kosovo: Did I ever mention Milosevic in a bad light (other than that he didn’t help Bosnian Serbs and fell in the West’s trap)?
        
        What you describe from Kosovo is exactly my saying.
        I know that the entire pretext for 1999 was falsified by the West and that the bombings of Belgrade were planned long before the alleged incidents _allegedly (but not in reality) took place.
        
        I’m completely on your side:
        
        NATO bombing of Yugoslavia 1999. / NATO bombardovanje Jugoslavije 1999.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gelCe981y0I
        
        Documentary: “Why Zasto” – NATO bombing Yugoslavia IN 1999
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxDcvhH2Ypc
        
        It is UNforgivable for all times
        But people are so damn stupid.
        Look at the Germans – their cities were under such intentional bombings of civilian areas for 4 years, now they cheer the USA. Same wish Hiroshima and Nagasaki (while in all these cases the military/industrial complex was for some reasons […] intentionally _NOT_ bombed.
        
        That’s the famous “Western Values” :-(
      - Uncle Bob 1 on September 24, 2015 · at 4:25 am EST/EDT
        
        Most Hungarians there are descendants of pre-WWI Hungarians in the region.It was known as Banat then and was part of Hungary.Though most people living there were Serbs,and Germans (settled there 2 centuries before).After WW2 the Germans fled or were expelled (many ,if not most had collaborated with the nazis during the war.Including many of the men joining the SS.) and replaced by Serbs from other areas.
        
        Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 24, 2015 · at 11:51 am EST/EDT
        
        Well, of that I’m aware. The only thing which was new to me is, that in 1956 so many Hungarians fled into the wrong direction.
        
        It’s not only about the Banat when speaking of ethnic Hungarians, those are in many hotspots (Banat was actually more special due to its ethnic German minority), but about many regions that were cut off Austro-Hungary by the Treaty of Trianon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Trianon which was a bit over the top, like the “Treaty” Of Versailles …
        
        Many railway lines were cut somewhere in the middle.
        I find that very fascinating and that’s part of the reason why I regularily visit Serbia and Romania.
        For example, let’s take Kikinda:
        
        Now the huge vast area of rail tracks and parts belonging to the gigantic train station are only a dead-end where twice per day this cute old rail-bus is rolling: http://ilovekikinda.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/pruga-kikinda-sinobus.jpg
        
        But originally it was located at the 2nd oldest railway line now located in today’s Serbia’s borders and it was an important main-line connecting Europe with the Orient, and a regular stop of the Orient express:
        
        http://visitkikinda.info/lens_portfolio/the-orient-express-in-kikinda/
        “””””The Kikinda – Timisoara railway is the oldest active railway in Serbia. It began functioning in 1857 and at first it connected Szeged, Great Kikinda and Timisoara. It was the 13th great railway built in Europe of that time. This route was taken by the famous European trains „Ostend” and „Orient Express”. The „Ostend express” travelled from London, to Ostend and then Munich, Vienna, Budapest, Kikinda, Timisoara and all the way to the Black Sea. „Orient Express” started passing through Kikinda in 1883. The Szeged – Kikinda – Timisoara railway functioned until 1952. “””””
        Now, one of the facts that make it so interesting is, because the old lines around Kikinda were not demolished but simply let alone: http://fotoki.rs/foto_vesti/vest/bila-jednom-jedna-pruga-jyufrphpul
        
        But back to Banat: Only the eastern part of Vojvodina is part of the Banat, separated from Backa by means of the river Theiss: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vojvodina_map02.png
        
        And while Banat is one such hotspot, the following map makes clear that it is far from being the only such place that has many ethnic Hungarian residents who were put outside their home country by the “Treaty” of Trianon in 1920: http://www.hunsor.se/magyar1000ev/hungarians_incent_europe.jpg
        And resulting from that Chaos there are such proposals sleeping under the surface:
        
        Autonomy Aspirations of Hungarian national communities abroad
        http://www.hunsor.se/autonomy/
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Hungarian_minorities_in_Europe
        
        Hungarians of Croatia‎ (2 P)
        Hungarian minority in Romania‎ (7 C, 13 P)
        Hungarians in Slovakia‎ (2 C, 118 P)
        Hungarians in Ukraine‎ (2 P)
        Hungarians in Austria
        Csangos
        Hungarians in Germany
        Hungarians in Romania
        Hungarians in Slovakia
        Székelys of Bukovina
        Hungarians in Serbia
        
        On the other hand you have many other small communities living as ethnic minorities in Hungary, Croatia, Serbia, Romania, Ukraine as a consequence:
        
        Ethnic minorities in Hungary: http://www.mfa.gov.hu/NR/rdonlyres/9F2D180E-538E-4363-AA5E-3D103B522E3B/0/etniang.pdf
        
        Also the Romanians would certyainly have a word to say about that, because they in fact have the largest Hungarian (1920) minority plus Banat is also split between Hungary, Serbia and Romania:
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banat
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Banat_map.svg
        
        Google for “hungarian minority” romania protests :
        
        https://www.google.de/search?q=hungarian+minority+self-governance+romania&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=w-UDVprFA8PTygPspKXwAQ#q=%22hungarian+minority%22+romania+protests
        
        So the Romanians will be careful to keep the Pandora’s box closed for all times.
        This plays out for Serbia, too. Because Romania is already in EU and NATO.
    - Wolfson on September 24, 2015 · at 6:56 am EST/EDT
      
      The Hungarians in Serbia are not themselves a problem since their numbers are declining and on average they are older than even us Serbs. The hidden danger is in the fact that the Hungarian government is giving Hungarian citizenship to anyone who can prove that they once had a distant relative living in Austro-Hungary. But in reality anyone living in northern Serbia (or Vojvodina, whichever you prefer) can get the citizenship and lots of people are doing so because they can then go to Germany, Austria etc. My personal belief is that the Hungarians are trying to empty Vojvodina of Serbs in this way.
      - Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 24, 2015 · at 12:19 pm EST/EDT
        
        @ Wolfson:
        
        Thank you for your well written alarming article!
        
        > the hidden danger is in the fact that the Hungarian government is giving Hungarian
        > citizenship to anyone who can prove that they once had a distant relative living in Austro-Hungary.
        
        Well, here I would disagree: We need to decide what is more destructive, rather than choosing whatever pleases us in the scope of our daily analysis.
        
        In Kosovo we say “it was destructive that foreigners came, settled and slowly drove out the original natives”
        (foreigners come and drive us out).
        
        Here you argue in the 180 degrees opposite way:
        
        Foreign countries give the foreigners living in in our lands free beer and free passports to drive them out of our lands.
        
        Sorry, but think clearly: This contradiction makes no sense.
        Be happy: If we had enough normal families having enough Sex then we had enough of our own who could go there and make Vojvodina really Serbic.
        
        The passport thing is something absolutely wide-spread and normal, Russia does so for all citizens of the Soviet Union (which at the moment doesn’t exist), Germany hands out such passports to anyone who ever lived in the former eastern territories or even as ancient German migrant in the Volga region, Moldova or Romania.
        
        Rather ask the opposite question: Why doesn’t Serbia have a similar passport regime (if it doesn’t have it, I have no idea) permitting any citizen of Yugoslavia (which currently doesn’t exist) to easily apply for Serbian citizenship? I think there are more than enough ethnic Serbs in other Yugoslav republics, not only in the Republika Srpska part of so called BiH.
        
        This could increase population growth and investments (as much as permitted under the still active Anti-Serbian western SANCTIONS) plus would drive out many good intelligent educated people out of Croatia and BiH, maybe even Slovenia.
  - Roda on September 24, 2015 · at 7:24 pm EST/EDT
    
    The current ethnic composition is subject to change. Albanians moved from Kosovo in January, now we have Arabs running around. Those who don’t get settlement in Germany will be sent back to Serbia, probably to Vojvodina. There goes your ethnic composition.
Stavros H on September 23, 2015 · at 8:36 pm EST/EDT

All European populations are in steep demographic decline. Every single one of them.

Some Western countries may be experiencing population growth (US, UK, Sweden, France) but that is down to immigration and the relatively high birth rates of immigrants.

Post-modernism and post-modernist values and (im)-morality are well into destroying every single European population.

Only a complete revolutionary reversal can stem this demographic collapse.
Uncle Bob 1 on September 23, 2015 · at 9:52 pm EST/EDT

Any Europeans that want to see what the US has planned for them can look at the US today as the example.When I was born, the majority ethnic population of the US was estimated at 88% today it is 64% and falling.With the smaller birthrate in Europe the fall will be much more.Unless it’s stopped “today”.You can say ,welcome to the “new” Europe my friends.
- Martin from S.E.B. on September 24, 2015 · at 1:19 pm EST/EDT
  
  @ Uncle Bob 1
  
  While I mostly agree with you here once again, please let’s not forget that the white americans are at the same time the ones who once did the same to the true owners of these lands, which are now mostly extinct or “live” impoverished, without getting respect, in Indian’s ghettos.
  
  The so called “AMERICANS” (aka white Europeans who migrated to the Americas) committed unprecedented genocide to the indigenous people(s). All under the holy banner of the all that noble church.
Avarachan on September 24, 2015 · at 12:30 am EST/EDT

Greetings from India.

All I can say is that I love Serbia and Serbian culture, and I wish the Serbian people all the best.

Saints Sava and Nikolai Velimirović, please pray for us!

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Sava_of_Serbia

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Nikolai_Velimirovic

Some beautiful Serbian Orthodox music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuVOkZTKzmA
Martin from S.E.B. on September 24, 2015 · at 1:30 am EST/EDT

EU refugee & migrant crisis: Serbia bans all cargo vehicles, goods from Croatia
Published time: 23 Sep, 2015 22:21
Edited time: 24 Sep, 2015 00:26
http://www.rt.com/news/316339-serbia-bans-croatia-vehicles-migrants/
Purple Library Guy on September 24, 2015 · at 4:03 am EST/EDT

Is Serbia in a very bad situation? Absolutely.
Should that situation be defined in terms of population? Definitely not. That’s a terrible wrongheaded idea. Look, there are too many people in the world today, far too many, and that is true of most individual countries. If the Serbian population was shrinking because prosperous people were using birth control a lot, that would be fine. The problem isn’t whether the population is shrinking, the problem is poverty, a broken economy, kleptocratic elites serving empire at the expense of their own people.

Consider: This article is saying that, as of 1919, the Serbian population was 3,300,000. And that today the ethnically Serbian population in Serbia is about 7,200,000. So, more than twice as many. And yet it then claims that if a slow population drain goes on “within a decade the Serbian people will no longer be able to demographically recover”. Give me a break. They “demographically recovered” from 3,300,000; they can “demographically recover” from 7,200,000 if it’s even a good idea.

That said, someone’s comment lower down that they need fewer people because robots is brutally illogical as well. Robots, and any other labour-saving technologies, reduce the amount of work needed per unit population; shrink the population and you still shrink the amount of work needed proportionally. Removing people is in no way a solution to problems of not enough work.

So, what is Serbia’s real problem? Empire and neoliberalism. They need to break foreign control and re-establish a developmental welfare state. I personally would be happy if it were strongly leftist, but the minimum to make things work again is classic Keynesianism and dumping “free trade” in favour of some degree of import substitution–none of which they can do without kicking out the quislings of empire, because the empire won’t stand for it. Serbia probably can’t successfully kick out the empire, at least for very long, without strong allies, such as Russia.

So. The movement Serbia needs is for a path independent of empire (US and EU), with an interventionist state that gets industry going, acts as employer of last resort, buys Serbian, and allies with Russia and the SCO. A massive oversimplification, hopefully with a lot of room for made-in-Serbia elements, but that’s the general drift of what’s needed to restore prosperity. If Serbia were to manage that, the population troubles would take care of themselves since they are the result of poverty and people fleeing a terrible place.
- Wolfson on September 24, 2015 · at 7:03 am EST/EDT
  
  The difference is that before WW1 the average age in Serbia was below 30 and today it is above 40. Back in the day people were having upwards of 3 children while today, on average, 0.85 children are born per married couple. I’m not saying that Serbia won’t be able to recover demographically, experts are saying this. Also, keep in mind that the 3.300.000 documented were only Serbs living in pre-WW1 Serbia’s borders. A much smaller territory than that of Serbia today. If you speak Serbian then I suggest you watch the documentary: Срби, народ који нестаје. Then you’ll get the idea of the severity of the situation.
  - Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 24, 2015 · at 12:04 pm EST/EDT
    
    Dobar Dan Wolfson,
    
    yes, like in all modern (not even only western) civilisations.
    Maybe it is really true that the Eugenics thugs invented the AIDS lie and keep sponsoring Gay-propaganda and mass-vaccinations to achieve their “noble” goals?!
    
    aids lie
    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=aids+lie
    
    reduce world population
    https://www.google.de/search?q=reduce+world+population&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=jucDVtDRCqSeygPgmr7oCQ
    
    reduce world population
    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=reduce+world+population
    
    eugenics
    https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=eugenics
    
    It would be very easy to get population growth going again: The Free Worl countries led by Russia and China should address the world community that HIV/AIDS is a hoax, just like 9/11.
    
    However, instead of only remotely doing so currently if you want to migrate to Russia you need to perform these ridiculous (scientifically meaningless) HIV/AIDS tests and they only let you in if you are negative.
    
    One of the many things I cannot understand, same as with 9/11.
    Doesn’t have Russia enough might to spread the Truth?
  - Anonymous on September 25, 2015 · at 3:16 pm EST/EDT
    
    Woflson:
    
    “Back in the day people were having upwards of 3 children while today, on average, 0.85 children are born per married couple. ”
    
    You write as if this were not something freely chosen by the couple. Serbia doesn’t have a forced abortion policy does it? And they don’t put birth control drugs prevent preganancy in the water, correct? So if Serbian women don’t become pregnant, its because they selfishly do not want to have children and help perpetuate their own society. There is really nothing more to this problem than people not wanting to have children. Change the birth control mentality and you change the demographics. Full stop.
- Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 24, 2015 · at 1:51 pm EST/EDT
  
  @ Purple Library Guy
  
  There would be the technical/logistical possibility for a lot more billions of humans to live together with us (although exponential growth will soon bring our human expansion to its limits, sure).
  
  Nevertheless you are a victim of EUGENICS/de-population propaganda developed and spread by the self-appointed “elites” who are afarid of us.
  
  Also: slower growth might not be a problem in theory. But you forgot disparity among peoples: Namely that other communities (Arabs, Africans) re-produce by qunatities faster than we in the so called “developed communities”.
  And this _is_ a problem!!! They will simply run us over.
  
  Therefore not only the 0.1% need to be afraid of them, but also we have a reason to be afraid.
  - Purple Library Guy on September 24, 2015 · at 5:51 pm EST/EDT
    
    Frankly, I find it hard to discuss with this kind of raving. It seems fashionable around Russia and Eastern Europe, but all this “Eugenics” and “The (other race) hordes are gonna outbreed us!” stuff is really, really dumb. It’s sort of understandable given some circumstances in those areas, but basically it’s spread by fascists and it’s all about fear and failing to think through things.
    
    There are basically two kinds of economic/political disaster, it seems. When there’s a sort of surface normalcy but everything costs too much and people are living on the ragged edge, reproduction goes down. The whole “can’t afford children” thing as mentioned in the article.
    When there’s war and chaos or complete squalor and lack of any infrastructure, reproduction goes up. Everyone’s desperate, there’s no birth control, screw like rabbits for tomorrow we die; the evolution engines deep in us scream, “Maybe if we make enough kids some will make it through!”
    
    So sure, just now various areas are probably seeing some fast population expansion. That’s ’cause they’re more toast than even Eastern Europe, which in turn is because while in most of Eastern Europe the Empire is getting what they want via vampirism, draining the blood out slowly, in the Middle East and Africa the Empire is mostly getting what they want by hacking with machetes and taking the blood as it spurts. And they’ve been doing it for a long time. But immigrants quickly adopt the reproduction speed of the places they settle, unless they get kept as an underclass with a different economic situation from everyone else (or in the case of Israel, the immigrant Jews have formed an overclass and turned the existing locals into an underclass, which is why the reproduction rates between Israelis and Palestinians are different and why Israel is always so terrified of the “demographic bomb” where they’ll be outnumbered again in time–but the irony is that if they had treated the Palestinians well the Palestinians would be breeding at the same rate they are and so it wouldn’t be a problem; they created the “demographic bomb” they fear).
    
    Similarly, countries in Africa and the Middle East will see their population stop growing if we can get the Empire to stop breaking them. We’re all the same species. Fast reproduction isn’t some genetic property of darkies, it’s just the same kind of thing that made the Baby Boom in America, combined with little access to birth control. Thinking of little access to birth control, you know who has systematically blocked access to birth control? The Christian Right, the US government under George W. Bush, and the Catholic Church. But these people are supposedly plotting to reduce population? Please.
    
    As to whether “technically” it might be possible for more billions to live on this planet. I doubt that’s even true in any remotely plausible sense, but even if it were it would be irrelevant. That is, “technically”, if you could have a perfect dictatorship which had perfect information about and control over food production and distribution and which forced everyone to be vegetarian and dictated portion sizes at restaurants and had your grocery shopping on a schedule, or better yet, had everyone eating at large central cafeterias, so they could know exactly how much food needed to be transported when, so none was ever wasted, and bla bla bla, then no doubt we’d waste much less food and the current bunch of people would be harming the planet less and possibly there would be room for even more billions. But that ain’t gonna happen, so it doesn’t matter.
    In the real world, every year we have more “overshoot”, using more of the renewable resources than get generated. Every year we exhaust more soil, and UN organization plaintively cry that in a few decades half of it’s gonna blow away. Every year we fish out more of the sea, with the ocean now apparently down to half the biomass it had in 1970. Should I even bother to mention forests? People’s insistence on putting their heads in the sand about this stuff makes me sick.
    
    Does anyone ever explain why exactly the big bosses are supposed to want fewer people? Have any of you people ever listened to the right wing on the subject of population and economic growth and stuff? They hate when populations shrink. They want ever more peons; they don’t care how crowded they get, how much squalor they live in or whether they’re all half starved. Far as they’re concerned, more people == economic growth, less people == economic shrinkage, fewer people to boss around, smaller reserve army of labour to keep the ones they do need metaphorically hungry (while the ones they don’t need are literally hungry). The world population has doubled in a few decades and how often do you ever see the mainstream media worry about this compared to how often they whine about population plateauing in Japan?
    
    Furthermore, the big bosses are WHITE. Oh, not all of them, but most of them. The centre of gravity, the real dominance, is white guys who speak English. So where do we get all this stuff where there’s a “Eugenic plot” to replace all the people they’re not particularly racist against with people they are racist against? And face it, they’re not afraid of Serbians. They’re not afraid of Europeans generally. You guys are bleedin’ poodles when it comes to resisting the empire, why on earth would they be afraid of you? You think you’re special chosen ones, the ones the empire is specially paying attention to and directing all its efforts to holding you down? It is to laugh. Latin America they’re worried about, China they’re worried about, Russia they’re worried about. Most of Eastern Europe they’re controlling with one pinky finger and they wouldn’t even need that if it weren’t for the Russians nearby. And the EU is controlling itself for them.
    - Martin from S.E.B. on September 24, 2015 · at 6:29 pm EST/EDT
      
      You did not listen to any of the leading supporters of Eugenics in the USA.
      It is not “fiction” or panicing in some “raving Eastern-European minds”.
      
      Well, after you spent a few hours researching that topic we can start this discussion from scratch. If you refuse, then I ask all other readers to do so on yt.
      
      Sorry, it is late here and I’m exhausted from the other thread. More tomorrow.
      
      https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=eugenics
Mulga Mumblebrain on September 24, 2015 · at 6:08 am EST/EDT

The thing to remember is that without a resolution to the ecological crisis of crises, by 2100 there will be zero Serbs, zero Croats, zero Hottentots and zero everybody else. One essential feature of ensuring long-term human survival is population reduction. It can be done humanely, through a ‘ demographic transition’ driven by eliminating poverty and emancipating and educating women and ensuring child survival, or you can do it the way the USA and its stooges prefer, by Malthusian methods utilising genocide, starvation, disease and civil strife. Who cares if there are only five million Serbs, or one million, or one hundred million Chinese or ten million, so long as they are living decent lives in an Earth made a Paradise for one billion human beings at most.
David of Rascia on September 24, 2015 · at 7:02 am EST/EDT

After having read this article by Wolfson and skimmed through some of the comments to it, I would like to add some of my own humble opinions and experiences on this matter.
There is no doubt that there is a demographic crisis in Serbia and that it is due to the factors mentioned in the article. It is also true that this crisis is due to a general apathy and lethargy that prevails among the Serbian people, a sense of hopelessness and despair and – even worse – indifference. People are thinking and saying out loud “Why should I stay here or do anything here, so that someone else can reap the benefits 200 years later?” When I heard this opinion voiced by a young student, I truly saw the depth of this indifference. Imagine if Karadjordje or Milos Obrenovic had thought the same way in the face of the overwhelming power of the Ottoman Empire?
People are not aware any more that such sacrifices against overwhelming odds and the will to sacrifice are what had kept the spirit of the Serbian people alive through many generations. Unfortunately, 90+ years of Yugoslavism and communism have all but destroyed the unity and the vigor of the people. The Serbian people invested themselves in the project of Yugoslavia against all reason and unwillingly, but they invested themselves completely. And the worst thing a people can do that has been battered by wars, is to throw their lot in with other peoples who are not only mentally different from them, but are also deeply ungrateful. The Yugoslav project and, afterwards, the communist project have also deeply divided the Serbian people along political and ideological lines. The sense of communality (саборност – sabornost) and unity that were evident in the Serbian people before WWI have been undermined by these sectarian divisions. This is because of the loss of religion and faith, which provided the necessary cement for national unity. (Nation, in my opinion, is deeply connected with the religion that it confesses, as it is an inextricable and immutable part of it.)
As concerns the accusations that Russia has betrayed Serbia, they are false and at best, malicious. These accusations began especially under the Communist regime, with whom the Soviets allied unwillingly and at the behest of the US and UK. (A lesser known fact is that the Soviets had better connections and more trust in the Royalist resistance in Yugoslavia.)
Russia’s sacrifice for Serbia during WWI is one of the greatest sacrifices that any one nation can do for another; it is sacrifice that is deeply founded in our common Orthodox heritage, and that is founded on love.
If there is one thing that we Serbs need from the Russians now, it is moral and spiritual support to those staunch individuals and groups who are fighting against this apathy, because the Russians cannot do for us, what we ourselves will not do.
- Mygpa Coba on September 24, 2015 · at 4:47 pm EST/EDT
  
  Perfect summary, I couldn’t say it better myself. If only the majority of the Serbs thought and acted this way…
Serb man on September 24, 2015 · at 7:44 am EST/EDT

I’m not worried. Many Serbs in Serbia will die out but I believe it is possible to reverse.
There are 2-3 times more Serbs outside Serbia in the world than in Serbia.
I have a friend who has five children, another has 4 children another has 3 mm.
I myself have two and my wife wants to have at least one child, etc.

Serbs will never die out. the world will go under before we die out and Jesus will return before we die out.

People should be more worried about the Croats or, rather, the Catholic Serbs who took the name of Croats who is a Germanic groups living near Vienna in Austria. They die faster and has less population than Serbia and Serbia sends all Arab refugees to Croatia now that Hungary has closed its borders so I hope they accelerate the process and that it defiles the Catholic Serbs in the Croatia
- Mygpa Coba on September 24, 2015 · at 5:08 pm EST/EDT
  
  “There are 2-3 times more Serbs outside Serbia in the world than in Serbia.”
  
  Absolutely ridiculous claim. So there are 15-22 million Serbs outside Serbia? Where? How did you count them? Did you find reports of those that counted them? Can you post links here?
  
  You should be worried as Serbs can die out. Don’t fool yourself thinking that Serbs have a special relationship with God which would keep us from dying out.We don’t.
  
  Also it’s not helpful to wish ill to the Croats. Serbs should work to help themselves instead of trying to harm others.
  - Rachotilko on September 25, 2015 · at 9:00 am EST/EDT
    
    You seem worthy of your chosen nickname. Besides that Serbs should wish Croats well – that would (1) create special relationship with God, (2) create hopes for ressurrection of Slavic Unity. Croats are Slavs, even if they act the way they act.
    
    Slovák zo Žiliny
aardwolfx on September 24, 2015 · at 9:55 am EST/EDT

The author of this article is not correct. He or she is another victim of Zionist atrocity propaganda. There was NOT an “extermination” program at Auschwitz as the presence of its swimming pool, cinema, post office and theatre attest. Was it a very harsh prison camp in which tens of thousands died from war time murder, rape and physical abuse? Obviously, but as an important work camp used to provide ammunition and other goods for the Nazi war machine it was in the German’s interest to have productive workers. Therefore, the later Soviet built fake chimneys and the FACT that no potassium cyanide residue has been found in the supposed homicidal “gas chambers” all affirm that the “holocaust” did not occur as described. Zyclon B was actually used to fumigate inmate clothing for their own protection from a rife and deadly wartime Typhus epidemic and the heart breaking images of emaciated inmates were largely the result of Allied carpet bombing campaigns in 1945 that destroyed the third Reich’s food transport infrastructure….if there were any real mass killings in world war II the first among our thoughts should always be the millions of slavic Russian people murdered on the Eastern front that single handedly turned back and crushed Hitler’s armies…essentially saving Europe from fascism…temporarily at least :(

Poor article really.
Harry_Red on September 24, 2015 · at 12:53 pm EST/EDT

As a Muslim, who has lived in many parts of the World, I denounce the crimes committed by the so called “Islamic” Ottoman Empire to my Orthodox Christian brothers. I denounce the crimes committed against the people of Serbia by the NATO alliance, just like the crimes committed against the people of Iraq (13 year deadly sanctions and then occupation) by the Western-Zionist alliance.

I can say honestly that the Orthodox Christian nations (Serbia, Russia, Greece, etc.) need to unite together to counter the corrupt and evil Western-Zionist-NATO alliance. Your strength is in your faith and your common history, culture, heritage. You have to unite, for if you unite you will be unbreakable.

And someday we will see a unity between modest, humble and balanced Muslims and Orthodox-Christians against the corrupt, oppressive, arrogant evil of the Zionist-Western alliance.

Together we rise, divided we fall.
rthjj on September 24, 2015 · at 5:27 pm EST/EDT

All ex communist states have demographic problems because of the 1990s destruction of the neoliberal economic reforms.

But problems also exist in western & northern Europe. There people were more inclined to overconsumption and family traditions have long collapsed. Women care about career not family.

Russia has also huge demographic problems because of the steep decline of fertility during the 1990s. The imposition of a neoliberal cleptocratic capitalism and the destruction of the soviet economy and health system caused very high mortality rates, early deaths, abortions, mass emigration. Average male expectancy was 58 during the 1990s.

I remember back in the 1990s there were many forecasts that in 2050 , Russia will only have 60-70 million people..

Sergey Glazyev wrote a book about this issue
(GENOCIDE RUSSIA AND THE NWO) in the 1990s.

Putin has somewhat improved the situation. But more needs to be done…..

Greece is now as bad as Russia and Serbia is.
Greece lost many of it’s people in the world wars and the post war mass emigration.

Now with the crisis caused by EU, young people leave, births are declining, deaths are rising. But even before the recent crisis, the country had a lot of ptoblems.

It seems that the implementation of IMF neoliberal “reforms” cause genocide in all nations.

With no job security, high unemployment, high taxes, no reliable health care system, it seems unlikely that people will get married and have families.

We need to regain our national and economic sovereignty and to reject globalised neoliberal economic policy.
Hawklord on September 25, 2015 · at 4:51 am EST/EDT

Here I must be the dissenting voice.

A population decrease is apparently a terrible thing, but I describe it as wonderful.

Most of the world’s problems such as global warming, pollution of the seas, fish stocks collapsing, the more general current mass extinction event, famines, etc., I don’t define as problems. I claim they are symptoms of a much larger problem: there are far too many people in this poor, pretty world.

Tragically, we are led by incompetent people who just do what their predecessors have done for decades. The bleat the mantra that if they improve their glorious economies, then everything else that is good will inevitably follow.

Economic ‘progress’ (which basically means having more money whizzing around at quicker an quicker rates) is largely led by population growth. Consumerism. Further, this economic growth does not benefit the average person, it only goes to further enrich those that are already stupendously rich. Youth unemployment is a record levels and getting worse, just about everywhere.

I feel it is an extra-ordinarily bad mistake to try to measure everything in terms of money. It blinds us to what is much more important.

In my own lifetime the world’s population has quadrupled, from less than 2 billion to close to eight billion now. What will the human population of planet Earth be in 2050? 2100? Where will this end? Until the entire planet’s resources are completely dedicated to human consumption? When there are no longer any such things as lions or tigers or bears or giraffes or wolves, etc., etc? That’s the future we are headed towards. Is that the future we should be bequeathing to future generations? What will they think of us if we do?

We, collectively (human beings), need to develop a much wider perspective than the one shown in this article.
- Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 25, 2015 · at 6:06 am EST/EDT
  
  @ Hawklord
  
  Sure sure, here again: The Most IMPORTANT Video You’ll Ever See Part 1 of 8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5iFESMAU58
  
  However – you forgot in your equation that different communities/ethnicities have a huge disparity in their growth rates (from negative rates to very high positive rates).
  
  But sure, if you cannot expect it to applaude this development and want something good for the human race, then you are free to kill yourself first. Maybe this helps and I’m confident someone wants your wife, house and car!
  And if you can look down from heaven in a few deacdes you will probably (by the bare numbers of probability) see that the European nations no longer exist. It will be a part of Middle East bordering sub-saharan Africa by then. Well: At least one no longer need a flight ticket if one wants some exotic experiences. Come to the Balkans _NOW_!
  
  I wish you a happy stay, enjopy! And be sure to reserve a seat in the train *lol* :
  
  https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=migrants+truth
  
  Migrant Crisis: The Footage the Media Refuses to Broadcast
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV315xqbRK8
  - Hawklord on September 25, 2015 · at 4:21 pm EST/EDT
    
    Good Martin:
    
    I watched your video links from beginning to end and they told me nothing new. Nothing. I’ve understood all of that since I was a teenager back in the ’80’s
    
    I am only more convinced that our western leaders are utter cretins, desperately hanging on to the coat-tails of a Yankee-led fantasy of world domination via their allegedly glorious military machine, their military/industrial complex, ownership of the petro-dollar, and therefore the world economy. Anyone that challenges that must be by self-definition a ‘rogue nation’.
    
    The American ‘economy’ at the end of WW2 owned half of the world’s. Now less than a quarter. Because the PTB sold their soul to globalization, which essentially means that that their manufacturing went overseas, to places where labour costs were much cheaper. Asia. India. Nike and Adidas. Places where child labour is commonplace and as cheap as chips. Where those call-centres are based.
    
    It all lacks any form of morality or principle. No sense of a society. All about money.
    
    Money is the root of all evil. About time we got rid of it and had a sensible sharing of resources. Without this insane competition for domination.
    
    Less people = more resources for all, and a better standard of living for all. Instead of the rich screwing everyone else to get richer.
- Anonymous on September 25, 2015 · at 3:19 pm EST/EDT
  
  Hawkford:
  
  “We, collectively (human beings), need to develop a much wider perspective than the one shown in this article.”
  
  Maybe so, but as far as I am concerned, my genetic lineage will be forcefully continuing into this future. if you don’t wish to see yours propagated, its quite easy to ensure that does not happen.
  
  For everyone saying there are too many people, I invite you to undertake a solution to this problem personally first before lecturing anyone else about it.
  - Hawklord on September 27, 2015 · at 6:11 am EST/EDT
    
    Sir:
    
    I am not married. I do not have any children. I don’t want any. And I am not gay. And I do not support any charities that support the explosion in human population. Instead I support animal charities.
    
    I live by my advertised principles.
    
    Thank-you.
Rachotilko on September 25, 2015 · at 8:39 am EST/EDT

Apparently, everyone is guilty, Gorbachev, the West, local puppet elites …

But what are the mechanisms of population decline ? Sure, emmigration plays a significant role. But it is undeniable that the populational collapse of Eastern Europe could not be explained by migration process alone.

Even the child-bearing age women that stay in Eastern Europe have very few children. Assuming (with good confidence) the sex drive is not dimminished, the only mechanisms that come to mind are birth-control, abortions, divorces. And we know these acts are all offfense to the Creator.

That means we – the Slavs – are offending our Creator for simple reason of our lust for luxuries. Our women and men refuse to bring children, when (their or childrens’) level of prospective comfort is not deemed sufficient.

Such a civilization deserves extinction.
- Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 25, 2015 · at 1:24 pm EST/EDT
  
  Beyond social insecurity in post-communist “capitalism”/oligopoly (nobody can afford to pay for the children) there are 4 major factors:
  
  #.0) CONDOMS!!! (due to the The HIV/AIDS lie)
  
  aids lie
  https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=aids+lie
  
  #1.) poisoning through vaccines and GMO food:
  
  reduce world population
  https://www.google.de/search?q=reduce+world+population&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=jucDVtDRCqSeygPgmr7oCQ
  
  reduce world population
  https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=reduce+world+population
  
  eugenics
  https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=eugenics
  
  #2.) pushing of Gay-Propaganda from kindergarden on
  
  #3.) porn watching
  
  Ahh, there is another factor: Destruction of familiy as a life’s goal
  Replaced by materialistic trash such as “biggest goal in life: BMW, I-Phone, I-Pad”.
- Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 25, 2015 · at 2:57 pm EST/EDT
  
  Comrades: This video (same title as another excellent song but this is a completely different one) explains why everything is getting worse. At the same time it shows a way-out, and no, it is not a mosq:
  
  Наша Родина СССР!!!
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1KZdWIjMFY
  
  Here the other one (with Putin, Soviet flag, Russian flag, “ukrainian” flag)) :
  Оргия Праведников – Наша Родина СССР
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En1TSDk1rDs
  
  So what are we waiting for?!
- Andrew on September 25, 2015 · at 6:42 pm EST/EDT
  
  Rachotilko:
  
  “That means we – the Slavs – are offending our Creator for simple reason of our lust for luxuries. Our women and men refuse to bring children, when (their or childrens’) level of prospective comfort is not deemed sufficient. Such a civilization deserves extinction.”
  
  It is really so simple.
  
  “If my people which are called by my Name, shall humble themselves and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways: then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.” (2 Chronicles 7:14)
  
  Just repent!
Andrew on September 25, 2015 · at 3:08 pm EST/EDT

Sorry, but having babies is something that is easy and fun and done privately between two people all the time.

If Serbian women can’t figure out how to get pregnant anymore or do not want to, and Serbian men do not want to be fathers or large families and have more than one or two children, how is it anyone’s fault but their own that their population is declining?

I did almost vomit when I read this line:

“World War One, while being one of the brightest moments in Serbian history from a moral aspect ”

I would think that for a country guilty of actually starting WWI via the assassination of Franz Ferdinand (and thus also guilty remotely of WWII which was caused by WWI and its aftermath) and thus responsible for the deaths of tens of millions such an event would not be called a “bright moment in history”.
- Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 25, 2015 · at 3:32 pm EST/EDT
  
  @ Andrew
  
  > I would think that for a country guilty of actually starting WWI via
  > the assassination of Franz Ferdinand
  
  I need to vomit reading this false crap.
  You confuse {being guilty of starting} with {going into a prepared TRAP and by doing so triggering/unleashing something that was prepared and staged by the Zionists, and even without conspiracy theories was in any case prepared by the military-industrial complex and weapons makers over DECADES in advance}.
  
  Here is a picture: You have a huge barrel/keg, let’s say it can hold 1000 liters of fuel.
  *SOME*body (Western empires, Zionists, others) have filled in 999,99 liters of explosives into it, knowing that Serbia will probably fill in the first cup of tea on a given day (Prince Ferdinands visit to Sarajevo was not only dumb and suerfluous, but very much a provocation, he was insane to go there in a public corso).
  
  Now, a Serb (or a false-falg agent, who knows?) threw in a cup of tea, the barrel/keg sloped over as a _reaction_ (rather than _cause_).
  So, you tell me Serbia is guilty for so and so many million deaths?
  For a cup of tea?
  
  Think again, don’t mix trigger and cause. That’s 2 different things.
  
  Butterfly effect
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect
  - Andrew on September 25, 2015 · at 4:23 pm EST/EDT
    
    Martin:
    
    “TRAP and by doing so triggering/unleashing something that was prepared and staged by the Zionists”
    
    Gavrilo Princip had free will enabling him to obtain a gun, load it with bullets, and pull the trigger. No hidden forces made him do it so that he could not chose unless perhaps we want to posit that he was possessed by Satan or some of his legion of minions. Similarly, his Serbian minders also had a free will and set in motion the chain of events that lead to Princip actually carrying out the assassination. His Serbian minder also did so because they believed this would be something great for their nation and bad for Austria who they decided was their enemy rather than their partner.
    
    “Prince Ferdinands visit to Sarajevo was not only dumb and suerfluous, but very much a provocation, he was insane to go there in a public corso”
    
    He was visiting a city recognized around the world as being part of the Kingdom he was to inherit. Why should it be insane for a future head of state to visit part of his domain?
    
    I think what you really meant to say was that he was a known supporter of federalizing Austria to give the Slavs a larger part in the government of the Kingdom, a move that would be inimical to the expansionist motives of the Kingdom of Serbia, which drooled at the prospect of carving up its neighbor to the north (and subsuming its neighbor Bulgaria to the east) by way of a general European war and subjugating all manner of people willingly or not to their own rule in their own Slavic mega state stretching from Trieste to Constantinople. And for this, he was assassinated by the Serbian cowards.
    - Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 25, 2015 · at 5:54 pm EST/EDT
      
      I wonder why someone like you with such views is actually here on Saker’s site.
      
      Or is it part of your paid job?
      That then explains how you can afford to have 7 children.
    - Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 25, 2015 · at 6:05 pm EST/EDT
      
      Thinks again who really started WW1 (even keeping aside all conspiracy theories etc.) :
      
      http://100.taitataveta.go.ke/history-of-the-first-world-war/
      
      What triggered World War 1?
      Assasination
      ferdinand archduke and wife
      
      Prince Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria, and his wife
      
      Like a trigger of a high profile weapon of mass destruction, The assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria, heir to the throne of Austria-Hungary, by a Serbian nationalist Gavrilo Princip in Sarajevo on 28th June 1914 unleashed a conflict which would come to be known as the World War I or the First World War .
      
      On 28th June 1914 In SARAJEVO; the capital of BOSNIA, a bomb is thrown to a car. The occupants of the car were none other than visiting Austria Hungary heir to the throne – Archduke Ferdinard and his wife Sophy. The bomb misses and the royal couple continues with their official visit. Few hours later the car is stopped and a gun is fired, the Austrian crown prince and princess Sophy are murdered. The assassination is reported to have been executed by a member of an assassin organization backed by a neighboring government of Serbia.
      Gavrilo Princip
      
      Gavrilo Princip- The Assasin
      
      Austria mourns, buries their dead crown prince and his wife then decides to punish the SERBIANS. unknown to any one countdown to world war 1 had just begun. On 28th July 1914 exactly one month after the assassination of the Austria’s crown prince Fedinard & his wife princes Sophy by as the Austrians claim ,SERBIAN national Gavrilo Princip, Austria declared war on Serbia in revenge.
      
      How declaring of war by Austria Hungary to Serbia turned to be a world war?
      
      The following contributed to escalation of a diplomatic crisis between Austria Hungary and Serbia into Europe’s affairs then to a global catastrophe to be known as First World War.
      - Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 25, 2015 · at 6:23 pm EST/EDT
        
        Ouch, my previous comment was mistakenly sent before spell-checking it a bit and before having added more external references. Sorry.
        
        Here the less incomplete version:
        
        @ Andrew:
        
        Let’s think again who really started WW1 (even keeping aside all conspiracy theories etc.) :
        
        http://100.taitataveta.go.ke/history-of-the-first-world-war/
        
        “””””What triggered World War 1?
        Assasination
        ferdinand archduke and wife
        
        Prince Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria, and his wife
        
        Like a trigger of a high profile weapon of mass destruction, The assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria, heir to the throne of Austria-Hungary, by a Serbian nationalist Gavrilo Princip in Sarajevo on 28th June 1914 unleashed a conflict which would come to be known as the World War I or the First World War .
        
        On 28th June 1914 In SARAJEVO; the capital of BOSNIA, a bomb is thrown to a car. The occupants of the car were none other than visiting Austria Hungary heir to the throne – Archduke Ferdinard and his wife Sophy. The bomb misses and the royal couple continues with their official visit. Few hours later the car is stopped and a gun is fired, the Austrian crown prince and princess Sophy are murdered. The assassination is reported to have been executed by a member of an assassin organization backed by a neighboring government of Serbia.
        Gavrilo Princip
        
        Gavrilo Princip- The Assasin
        
        Austria mourns, buries their dead crown prince and his wife then decides to punish the SERBIANS. unknown to any one countdown to world war 1 had just begun. On 28th July 1914 exactly one month after the assassination of the Austria’s crown prince Fedinard & his wife princes Sophy by as the Austrians claim ,SERBIAN national Gavrilo Princip, Austria declared war on Serbia in revenge.
        
        How declaring of war by Austria Hungary to Serbia turned to be a world war?
        
        The following contributed to escalation of a diplomatic crisis between Austria Hungary and Serbia into Europe’s affairs then to a global catastrophe to be known as First World War. […more there]”””””
        
        So, who declared whom the War?
        And by doing so started a chain reaction of military allianced coming into action …
        Some individual revolutionaries or Vienna all officially?
        There was no reason to declare Serbia the war, because inside Serbia the revolutionaries were alredy imprisioned and legal action against them was already started and ongoing.
        
        Wasn’t Austria-Hungary already large enough?
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria-Hungary#/media/File:Dissolution_of_Austria-Hungary.png
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria-Hungary
        
        And look how little they at the time “were generous enough” to “give the Serbs”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Archduke_Franz_Ferdinand_of_Austria#/media/File:Szarajev%C3%B3i_mer%C3%A9nyl%C5%91k_%C3%BAtvonala_1914.svg
        
        And btw, why do you believe an occupied nation has to wait until Vienna “gives them” something?????
- Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 25, 2015 · at 3:35 pm EST/EDT
  
  > Sorry, but having babies is something that is easy and fun and done privately between two people all the time.
  
  The _system_ is responsible for creating conditions which cause all that.
  If that’s too complicated for you, ok.
  - Andrew on September 25, 2015 · at 4:13 pm EST/EDT
    
    Martin:
    
    “The _system_ is responsible for creating conditions which cause all that.”
    
    BS. “The system” didn’t create any conditions that got my wife pregnant 7 times or my neighbor’s wife pregnant 7 times or my friend in town getting pregnant 8 times. None of us are wealthy or set for life with extravagant means.
    
    I did it all on my own because I like having children and enjoy making love to my wife and trust that God will provide and we will all make it through. It is not more complicated than that.
    
    People who whine about “conditions” not being right for having children are just searching for an excuse for something they really do not want to do.
    - Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 25, 2015 · at 4:34 pm EST/EDT
      
      Andrew: I congratulate you and I’m glad you have such a happy life.
      But if you had no job/income, are you sure you could pay for that lifestyle?
      
      In Serbia or Ukraine, or Russia under Yeltsin: Are you sure it has nothing at all to do with the system?
      
      rgds.
    - Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 25, 2015 · at 4:47 pm EST/EDT
      
      @ Andrew: It is not only about having enough money or having the 100% knowlege that your children will later have the right to get a good free education, a paid job, an appartment and health services and so on.
      
      I also named other aspects: materialism, commercials, all kinds of malicious advertisements.
      Little children if exposed to that dangerous dirt (such as Gay-propaganda) are still too young to know what is good and what is bad.
      
      The result: The alarming numbers this article is dealing with.
      If you say that the surrounding conditions have nothing to do with all that, then you miss to explain it in a verifiable manner. Therefore be careful before you throw with words like “BS”.
      Because that’s what falls under the category of what you are doing: Unverifyable empty claims without any reasoning.
    - Diaspora_M on September 27, 2015 · at 4:19 am EST/EDT
      
      So you fathered your neighbors children? Lol sorry yes that was base humor at its best but the sentence structure left him open for it and I could not resist
      - Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 27, 2015 · at 8:16 am EST/EDT
        
        In fact what he said was even funner, read his quote above:
        
        “I did it all on my own because I like having children”
        (no furter comment needed)
        
        Sorry, this was what I wondered about all the time …
        However – different countries, different customs.
- Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 25, 2015 · at 4:31 pm EST/EDT
  
  @ Andrew: You expect Serbia (which “Bosnia” [name comes from the river Bosna, so what does it actually stand for?] is actually part of) accepts it, that after 500 years of Ottoman occupation and evil suppression they stay passive and keep watching how Austria-Hungary takes half of their lands and you suggest they should have waited another 500 years before freeing their lands in the form of Yugoslavia?
  
  Wasn’t Austro-Hungary already large enough, mostly reaching over the lands of suppressed foreign peoples [without their own countries]?
  How many ethnic Austrians or Hungarians lived or live in Serbia (region around the river Bosna [aka “Bosnia])?
  
  It is bad enough that so many Ottoman muslims migrated there and breeded with Serbs, while forcing the native Serbs to convert to islam. That’s comparable to so called Ukraine which was under Polish-Lithuanian / Catholic church occupation for a bit too long. Compare it to a child that was bathed in too hot water for a minute too long …..
  
  In German language we have a saying: “Who wants EVERYTHING [often enough ends up in] getting/[gets] NOTHING”.
  
  That was Austro-Hungary’s mistake which led to its destruction: THEY WANTED MOOOAAAARRRRR.
  
  But wait a minute: A certain group of Zionist bankers stands behind the end of feudalism in Europe. However: Not to free us in reality, but instead to enslave us subvertedly even more than before as part of banking-neofeudalism aka “globalisation” or call it NWO.
  
  Thank Lenin and Stalin that this agenda was delayed by 70 years.
  - Andrew on September 25, 2015 · at 6:38 pm EST/EDT
    
    Martin:
    
    This seems to be some imaginative revisionist history on your part, where Bosnia wasn’t part of the medieval Kingdom of Hungary (where everyone seems to think it was located) and was part of the medieval Kingdom of Serbia and later Empire of Serbia (where no one includes it).
    
    Perhaps next you can revise how the Serbs ended up in Krajina by placing them there from time immemorial instead of as free refugees within the Austrian Empire granted permission to create border military settlements to hold back the Turks.
    
    Then perhaps you can address how it was wrong for Austria to obtain Bosnia and Herzegovina in 1878/1908, which admittedly had numerous Croats who were long time subjects of Austria and Hungary but it was right for Serbia to receive Eastern Rumelia in 1878 and Macedonia in 1913, both of which were full of Bulgarians, not Serbs.
    
    This all just goes to show the rightness of the political organization of states like Austria-Hungary and Russia, which managed to allow many nationalities and religions to harmoniously coexist in peace and tolerance for centuries vs. new nationalist states like Serbia, Germany, Bulgaria, and Italy which were constantly at war and seeking war to encompass all of “their” people while persecuting those who were of the “wrong” religion/language/ethnicity.
    - Martin from S.E.B. on September 25, 2015 · at 7:04 pm EST/EDT
      
      I’m tired, maybe tomorrow.
      But actually I already spend way too much time that I don’t have, on a daily basis
      
      Only a last quick thought: Most parts of today’s Germany east of the river ELBE were Slavic 1000 years ago, including this very place I’m sitting at (Berlin).
      
      So whatever you tell me: Everything from Bosnia to Kiew belongs to Hungary and or Austria and or Germany?
      
      Wait a minute …
      Well, I need a long sleep before I start a reply.
      Or: Believe what you want.
      
      I cannot afford wasting 5 or 10 hours per day with such foolish discussioons.
      - Anonymous on September 26, 2015 · at 1:55 pm EST/EDT
        
        Martin:
        
        “that after 500 years of Ottoman occupation and evil suppression they stay passive and keep watching how Austria-Hungary takes half of their lands”
        
        And when before 1918 was the last time Bosnia was a part of independent Serbia and for how long?
        
        The lands of Bosnia were not of course Serb, they were Turkish/Muslim in the plurality. Serbs were a majority in certain areas, but hardly in the whole province.
        
        “they should have waited another 500 years before freeing their lands in the form of Yugoslavia”
        
        And when were any of the others peoples to be subjected to Belgrade asked whether this was actually their wish? What entitled Serbia to act as the guiding force in the state organization of the south Slavs as opposed to each group being able to act on their own or continue a separate existence? Do you seriously think the present division of the south Slavs does not represent the actual wishes of most of the people? And is there reason to suppose there as a different opinion in 1918 from today among say, the Slovenes, or the Macedonian Bulgarians about being part of Serbia?
        
        “So whatever you tell me: Everything from Bosnia to Kiew belongs to Hungary and or Austria and or Germany?”
        
        No, the land belongs to those who live in it now, and those people have a natural right to speak whatever language they want and pass on such culture to their children. “To populate is to govern.” Austria was simply the state organization in that area and there was not another except Turkey until Austria herself helped give birth to Serbia and Romania by pulling them out of Turkey.
        
        In the 19th century, political matters in Europe were settled cooperatively by the great powers (England, France, Austria, Prussia, Russia, Turkey) mainly through diplomatic means, a system which avoided general wars for 100 years. It was not perfect for everyone obviously, but it was peaceful for the most part and the continent was able to undergo an amazing development, and most people were able to live unmolested and pass on their cultural heritage to their children without interference, and new written cultures were able to develop for many small peoples who had previously been illiterate.
        
        “Wasn’t Austro-Hungary already large enough, mostly reaching over the lands of suppressed foreign peoples [without their own countries]?”
        
        At the time, the various peoples weren’t viewed as foreign to the Empire, and the Empire was viewed as a natural Christian state that was the inheritor of the concept of a Christian Empire encompassing Catholic Europe. From a geopolitical perspective, of course Austria overreached in Bosnia, and this is why Vienna is a provincial backwater for the past 100 years instead of a great capital of a great empire. However, we can also see that Belgrade similarly failed in learning this lesson, and so when given a chance to rule a similar polyglot state after 1918, was unable to create a long term country out of it and similarly fell apart in bloody strife.
        
        The “smart’ thing to do in hindsight in 1878/1908 would have been to sit down with Serbia and divide up Bosnia and Herzegovina as best as possible along religious lines – Croats to Austria-Hungary and Orthodox Serbs to Serbia. Human pride being what it is, the Emperor of Austria and his government obviously thought different and the reaped the results as well.
        
        Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 26, 2015 · at 2:32 pm EST/EDT
        
        You wrote this without being aware of the ethnical and historical info I referenced a few pages down from here.
        
        Therefore I can say that I already answered your post much better than you appear to know yourself.
        The majority of inhabitants of these lands were SERBS.
        
        But read first before expecting me to write everything again! Is that asked too much?? Thanks.
    - Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 25, 2015 · at 7:09 pm EST/EDT
      
      Ah, last thing: Andrew, it was nice to finally see your emperors clothes and true colours.
      
      This now explains a lot of your earlier comments.
      Hint: You joined the wrong forum here.
    - jomo on September 25, 2015 · at 8:32 pm EST/EDT
      
      Serbs were the largest of the ethnic groups in BiH.
      
      Austria’s own census in the late 1800’s had the Serbs at over 40%.
      
      The Bosnian Muslims were just over 30%.
      
      The Croats were in 3rd place to them, and many of those Croats were Serbs who’d been converted under Catholic rule.
      
      Serbs also had a long historical population in Dalmatia/Dubrovnik, but many of these were Catholicized.
      
      There were not any Austrian ethnic native to BiH.
      
      Austria was taking the land of other ethnics.
      
      Austria was also bringing up Albanians to supplement the Muslims in the Sandzak region and was funding the Muslims after the Ottomans left.
      - Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 26, 2015 · at 12:15 am EST/EDT
        
        @ jomo: Very true! Not much to add.
        Everybody who doubts that can go even to pro-western wikipedia and then wonder:
        (I also have an old Atlas from 1908 produced in the German Empire, with ethnic maps, so if anyone wants I can scan and upload the relevant page.)
        
        http://ww1blog.osborneink.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/ethnicmapaustria.gif
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austro-Hungarian_rule_in_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina#Ethnic_relations
        
        I also remind everyone of our earlier discussions in the comments section of /on-russian-military-interventions-or-lack-thereof/
        
        Ah, one thing needs in fact to be added: Not only many (_all_!!) “Croats” were in fact once Serbs who at certain points converted to Catholicism. Also all “Bosnian Muslims” were once Serbs, a few migrants from Turkey plus the Illyrians who inhabited the Bosnian mountains before the great Slavic migration.They were later Slavicised and last mentioned separately in the 7th century.
        
        So: Serbs, Serbs and Serbs all over the place.
        No Hungarians, no Austrians.
        
        Clear now?!
        
        Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 26, 2015 · at 12:54 am EST/EDT
        
        The Austrians and Germans created the pseudo-Bosnian nation for their own geo-political purposes:
        (as they did with so called Ukraine)
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austro-Hungarian_rule_in_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina#Ethnic_relations
        
        “””””The Austro-Hungarian administration advocated the ideal of a pluralist and multi-confessional Bosnian nation. Joint Imperial Minister of Finance and Vienna-based administrator of Bosnia Benjamin Kallay thus endorsed Bosnian nationalism in the form of Bošnjaštvo (“Bosniakhood”) with the aim to inspire in Bosnia’s people ‘a feeling that they belong to a great and powerful nation'[10] and viewed Bosnians as “speaking the Bosnian language and divided into three religions with equal rights.”.[11][12] Between 1861 and 1869, Topal Osman Pasha, an Ottoman grand vizier had striven to do the same.[13]
        
        The policy attempted to isolate Bosnia and Herzegovina from its irredentist neighbors (Orthodox Serbia, Catholic Croatia, and the Muslim Ottoman Empire) and to suppress the concept of Serbian and Croatian nationhood, which were already current among Bosnia and Herzegovina’s Orthodox and Catholic communities, respectively, in the mid-19th century.[12] Croats and Serbs who opposed the policy mostly ignored Bosnian nationhood and instead sought to claim Bosnian Muslims as their own, a move that was rejected by most of them.[14][15]
        
        The idea of a unified South Slavic state (typically expected to be spearheaded by independent Kingdom of Serbia) became a popular political ideology in the region at this time, including Bosnia and Herzegovina.
        
        Certain Muslim circles in Bosnia and Herzegovina published the newspaper Bošnjak (“Bosniak”). This newspaper caused fierce discussions in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, and Serbia. The newspaper supported Kállay’s policy, whose goal was to strengthen Austro-Hungarian rule in occupied Bosnia and Herzegovina. Although Kállay’s policy was not widely accepted even amongst Muslims, Bošnjak nevertheless represented the national aspirations of some Muslims in Bosnia and Herzegovina.”””””
        
        In this light one has to view it.
        Until this day!
        
        Anonymous on September 26, 2015 · at 3:20 pm EST/EDT
        
        Martin:
        
        “(I also have an old Atlas from 1908 produced in the German Empire, with ethnic maps, so if anyone wants I can scan and upload the relevant page.)”
        
        If you have ever perused census returns by district, you would know how highly misleading maps of this sort are, since they are of the habit of coloring as “Serb” or “Croat” or whatever any region where that group is a mere plurality of the population. It would be far more interesting to show maps which give percentages for each region for each group, since few places in Bosnia was a district 100% of one group.
        
        “Ah, one thing needs in fact to be added: Not only many (_all_!!) “Croats” were in fact once Serbs who at certain points converted to Catholicism. Also all “Bosnian Muslims” were once Serbs”
        
        This is a great Serb myth, justifying in their minds their dominance of Bosnians and Croats.
        
        Those of us not personally invested in this petty conflict are aware that before there were Bosnia Muslims there were Bosnian Bogomils, who were a heretical Christian group, and the source of the Muslim population in Bosnia is to be sought first among groups such as this who were already disaffected with the Church, just as Syria and Egypt the Muslim population came mainly from converts from the Monophysite heretics, and not from the miniscule number of Arab invaders.
        
        Similarly, Croats were part of the Latin Catholic realm from the time of the Christianization seeing as they were inside the boundaries of the Roman Patriarchate and were not Serbs and never part of a Serbian state (otherwise of course, we might have expected to see them call themselves as such at some point in their history, but they do not) and were not part of the East Roman Empire centered on Constantinople. They had their own medieval kingdom, and they used the western Roman Liturgy in Slavonic as their Mass.
        
        Really, this sort of historical rubbish will get the Serbs nowhere, and it is very similar to the intolerant nonsense that comes out of Lviv.
      - Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 26, 2015 · at 12:49 am EST/EDT
        
        Ok, to stay fair I also add wikipedia links from the other perspective from the time before the Slavs migrated to the Balkans.
        
        But read yourself why they came:
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavs#Migrations
        
        “””””The Slavs emerged from obscurity when the westward movement of Germans in the 5th and 6th centuries CE (thought to be in conjunction with the movement of peoples from Siberia and Eastern Europe: Huns, and later Avars and Bulgars) started the great migration of the Slavs, who settled the lands abandoned by Germanic tribes fleeing the Huns and their allies: westward into the country between the Oder and the Elbe-Saale line; southward into Bohemia, Moravia, much of present-day Austria, the Pannonian plain and the Balkans; and northward along the upper Dnieper river. Perhaps some Slavs migrated with the movement of the Vandals to Iberia and north Africa.[58]
        
        Around the 6th century, Slavs appeared on Byzantine borders in great numbers.[59][page needed] The Byzantine records note that grass would not regrow in places where the Slavs had marched through, so great were their numbers. After a military movement even the Peloponnese and Asia Minor were reported to have Slavic settlements.[60] This southern movement has traditionally been seen as an invasive expansion.[61] By the end of the 6th century, Slavs had settled the Eastern Alps regions.
        Early Slavic states
        
        When their migratory movements ended, there appeared among the Slavs the first rudiments of state organizations, each headed by a prince with a treasury and a defense force. Moreover, it was the beginnings of class differentiation, and nobles pledged allegiance either to the Frankish/ Holy Roman Emperors or the Byzantine Emperors.
        
        In the 7th century, the Frankish merchant Samo, who supported the Slavs fighting their Avar rulers, became the ruler of the first known Slav state in Central Europe, which, however, most probably did not outlive its founder and ruler. This provided the foundation for subsequent Slavic states to arise on the former territory of this realm with Carantania being the oldest of them. Very old also are the Principality of Nitra and the Moravian principality (see under Great Moravia). In this period, there existed central Slavic groups and states such as the Balaton Principality, but the subsequent expansion of the Magyars, as well as the Germanisation of Austria, separated the northern and southern Slavs. The First Bulgarian Empire was founded in 681, the Slavic language Old Bulgarian became the main and official of the empire in 864. Bulgaria was instrumental in the spread of Slavic literacy and Christianity to the rest of the Slavic world.”””””
        
        So, one has to admit that it were wild times and the borders shifted quit dramatically from one side to the other and back:
        
        Forth:
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Serbia_%28medieval%29
        
        and Back:
        
        Kingdom of Croatia (925–1102)
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Croatia_%28925%E2%80%931102%29
        
        And Forth:
        Serbian Empire
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_Empire
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia
        
        So, Serbia has won.
        
        However, nevertheless:
        The situation in the middle of all this, at 1000 a.d.:
        https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cc/Europe_1000.jpg
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_language
        “”””” is the standardized variety of the Serbo-Croatian language[4][5][6] used by Croats,[7] principally in Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, the Serbian province of Vojvodina and other neighbouring countries. It is the official and literary standard of Croatia and one of the official languages of the European Union. “””””
        
        Everybody can easily test this on translate.google.com: past in “Croatian” or “Bosnian” or Serbian (in latin letters) text to the left, and then it makes no single difference whatsoever if you select for src-language “Croatian” “Bosnian” or “Serbian – latin letters”, it is 100% THE_SAME.
        
        There exist some very slight dialects, but they do not reflect any inner-Yugoslav border lines.
        No one can ask – call this language Serbian or Serbo-Crotaio-Bosnian.
        Response: The Slavs brought this language to the Balkans, so that’s why it must be called Serbian language (if not Bulgarian or RUSky). But in any case it is not “Bosnian”.
        Fascinating topic!
        
        Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 26, 2015 · at 1:04 am EST/EDT
        
        Very good video summarizing this:
        
        Who are south slavs?
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJaPaZq8zMM
        
        google for: southlavic gene
        https://www.google.de/search?q=southslavic+gene&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=hvEFVrGeC6HkyAOjjI6IDw
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Slavs
        
        Genetic studies on Serbs
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Serbs
        
        E-V13/E1b1b distribution
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Serbs#/media/File:HgE1b1b1a2.png
        
        Andrew on September 26, 2015 · at 9:29 pm EST/EDT
        
        Martin:
        
        Yes, it is a fascinating topic, most of all because the vast majority of men in the south-central Balkans are not genetically “Slavic”, seeing as they are not in the R1A Y-chromosomal Haplogroup, unlike most of the Russians, Poles, Ukrainians, Czechs, Slovaks, Slovenes, and Croatia (and also, interestingly, Hungary). Instead, men of the Balkans from Dalmatia, Serbia, Bosnia, Bulgaria, and Romania are typically in the I2A group along with E1B1B and J groups, while only about 15% are R1A (vs. 40-70% in most other Slavic nations). The I2A group is a proto-European group dating from long before the Indo-European arrival most closely related to the Scandanavian Tuetons (Norwegians, Swedes, and Danes) and Sardinians.
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Serbs
        
        “An analysis of molecular variance based on Y-chromosomal STRs showed that Slavs can be divided into two groups: one encompassing West Slavs, East Slavs, Slovenes, and western Croats, and the other encompassing Bulgarians, Macedonian Slavs, Serbs, Bosniaks, and southern Croats.”
        
        “Principal component analysis of Y-chromosomal haplogroup frequencies among the three ethnic groups in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbs, Croats, and Bosniacs, showed that Serbs and Bosniacs are genetically closer to each other than either of them is to Croats.”
        
        So the question should be asked who the ancient Balkans peoples actually are and how they came to speak a Slavic language and what relation they actually have to the true Slavs up north.
        
        The answers to this question are likely to be found in the answer of why their closely related neighbors, the Romanians, speak a Romance language heavily influenced by Slavonic, the presence of Aromanians throughout the Balkans, and the near absence of ecclesiastical organization throughout the region from the time of Justinian sometimes all the way into the 1300’s, as with the Romanians, and the spread of Slavonic via the Church. It seems most likely that the the Slavic invasion was not a wholesale population replacement in the Balkans, but a new dominance of new cultural elites who managed to impose their language upon the region and that one of the primary methods of this was the creation of Church Slavonic.
        
        Areas closer to the Slavic heartland up north saw a greater depopulation in post-Roman times than areas to the south, accounting for the larger numbers of Slavs in Slovenia and Croatia, and that these areas were separated from the Slavic heartland by the subsequent Hungarian invasion which saw yet another elite impose itself and its language over the natives between Slovakia and Croatia/Serbia, and similarly the outmigration of Romans to the old Dacian province in the mountains of Transylvania and beyond seeking refuge from the chaos.
        
        An interesting result of this is that the Croats (excluding the Dalmatians) and Serbs are a quite distinct group of peoples genetically while they speak the same language they share very little else culturally – Croats are westerners through and through and the Serbs are easterners.
      - Anonymous on September 26, 2015 · at 2:52 pm EST/EDT
        
        jomo:
        
        “Serbs were the largest of the ethnic groups in BiH. Austria’s own census in the late 1800’s had the Serbs at over 40%. The Bosnian Muslims were just over 30%.”
        
        Yes, and once upon a time, the whole area was Roman and spoke Latin. So should it go to Italy?
        
        It doesn’t matter what the Serbs may have been sometime in the 1800’s. Starting in the 1960’s, they decided not to have many children any more, and they began shrinking in number while the Bosnian Muslims continued growing. And if they didn’t like the conditions in 1960 or later and want to blame those general conditions for their depopulation, lets remember that no only were they the responsible governing party of the state since 1918, but they also chose to create those conditions when they upset the Austrian applecart where they were the plurality by even more than you state (43% to 32%) AND were growing faster in number than the Muslims were. So they have no one to blame but themselves.
        
        Your history is all meaningless arguments that mean nothing to those alive today.
        
        “The Croats were in 3rd place to them, and many of those Croats were Serbs who’d been converted under Catholic rule.”
        
        Please tell us about this Catholic rule of Bosnia when Croats were created out of Serbs. When was this? Because in 1879, Catholic Croats were 18% of the population, and in 1991, they were 17%. So perhaps there was some secret period of Catholic rule during Ottoman times? Or was it during period of the heretical Bogomil Kingdom in Bosnia before the Ottomans?
        
        jomo on September 28, 2015 · at 4:17 am EST/EDT
        
        You are ignoring the wars’ toll on the Serbian population as well as persecution. You ignore that foreign governments, including Muslim states have artificially supported the Bosnian Muslims. Tito and his government favored the Bosnian Muslims, while Serbs had to go abroad to have freedom.
        
        Also, it seems you don’t realize that there was immigration from the Sandzak (area that straddles Montenegro and Serbia) into BiH to boost the Bosniak population in the ’50s, ’60s, etc.
        
        I was arguing with a middle-aged Bosniak who hated Serbs, called them “bacteria”, and after several weeks of arguing it came out that his parents were from MONTENEGRO. I had said something about Montenegro and it finally came out.
        
        Bosnian Muslims usually had around the same number of children as Bosnian Serbs – well perhaps a little higher – but Serbs were leaving for jobs and Muslims from other areas were migrating to BiH.
        
        Also, many of the Sandzak Muslims have ALBANIAN stock. The Austrians were importing Albanians to that area in order to increase the Muslim/non-Serb population. Austria was using it to divide Serbia and Montenegro.
        
        So it is continued FALLOUT from foreign anti-Serb rulers/meddlers.
        
        Tito also was a special godfather to the 7th (or maybe it was the 8-10th) child born to Albanian parents in Kosovo.
        He and the government were supporting and encouraging the Albanians to have big families.
        
        Meanwhile, Serbian workers were, without their knowledge, levied a special tax, the proceeds of which were sent to Kosovo.
        
        And before Milosevic took the reigns and curbed the powers in Kosovo, the Albanians were using the Yugoslav funds to buy up Kosovo Serb property (they’d offer good prices) and get Serbs out.
        Serbs were subjected to attacks and threats, which were kept quiet or downplayed by the official government, and some would leave without selling their property for high prices.
- Serbian girl on September 25, 2015 · at 7:06 pm EST/EDT
  
  @ Andrew
  
  Having babies is done between two “people”? I always thought it required a man and a woman.
  
  Maybe where you come from it’s done differently?
  
  The common housefly has a 24h gestation period and it only feeds on sh..t
  - Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 25, 2015 · at 7:14 pm EST/EDT
    
    +1 :-)
  - Anonymous on September 26, 2015 · at 2:31 pm EST/EDT
    
    Serbian Girl:
    
    “Having babies is done between two “people”? I always thought it required a man and a woman”
    
    Yes, a man and a woman, just like I said:
    
    If Serbian women can’t figure out how to get pregnant anymore or do not want to, and Serbian men do not want to be fathers or large families and have more than one or two children, how is it anyone’s fault but their own that their population is declining?
    
    Let me add now, are you doing your part as a Serbian woman, or are you just here to ridicule me for speaking out?
Ivan Lukic on September 25, 2015 · at 4:39 pm EST/EDT

Croatian, Muslim’s, Austro-Hungarian and Bulgarian crimes against Serbian civilians in WWI are documented in detail by the famous Swiss criminologist Archibald Reiss. The armed forces consisting of the individuals from these nations behaved worse than animals in WW1. They certainly do not deserve to be called “civilised”. Croatians, Muslims, Hungarians, Germans and Bulgarians repeated even worse crimes against Serbian civilians in WW2.

But look at the current demographic statistics and projections for Croats and Bulgarians. These statistics are equally pessimistic as are the statistics for Serbs. The crimes did not help them to prosper. It seems that it does not pay to serve Western masters!
- Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 25, 2015 · at 5:08 pm EST/EDT
  
  Exactly true.
  The western freaks “know” Serbia for its alleged “crimes”.
  While in reality it was upsite down: http://www.slobodan-milosevic.org/
  
  Hopeless.
  But if somebody seriously tells me he has 7 children and doesn’t need money nor social stability for it – well – I doubt it makes a difference if you tell such people anything or not.
  
  BTW: I wonder in which neigborhood he is living if all of his neigbors have 7 or 8 childs.
  Well, I really don’t need a TV: Reality and inside and outside the www is more than entertaining enough.
  
  Serbia is like Russia: They all blame them although they are mostly innocent.
  The USA/Israel/UK/EU on the other hand are 100% vice versa.
  
  Well, leave them their “beliefs” and day-dreaming.
  - Andrew on September 26, 2015 · at 3:57 pm EST/EDT
    
    Martin:
    
    “The western freaks “know” Serbia for its alleged “crimes”.”
    
    Throughout the 1990’s, I supported the Serb side and the right of Serbs to live together in one state if they so choose, with of course the proviso that others have the right to leave such a state if they so choose. This is the concept of Self-Determination, and it should have been a relatively straightforward matter to determine it peacefully by referendum in Yugoslavia had it not been for the Yugoslav army attacking those parts of the country that no longer wished to be within it, starting with the 10-Day War in Slovenia.
    
    I was completely opposed to the foreign policy of Bill Clinton and Wesley Clark in this region and the follow on attack on Kosovo under Bush.
    
    ” I wonder in which neigborhood he is living if all of his neigbors have 7 or 8 childs.”
    
    We live outside Philadelphia in a traditional little town and there are many large families of 4 or more children in our neighborhood.
    - jomo on September 27, 2015 · at 8:46 pm EST/EDT
      
      Serbs were being targeted and attacked from the very start. The western media hid this.
      
      CNN would even show dead Serbs as Muslims.
      
      There were two Serbian children killed on a bus early in the war. During the funeral for them a bomb was thrown, and this disrupted funeral was shown on the news.
      The French TV stations showed the funeral and some people realized there were Christian symbols. A Greek American woman, Stella Jatras, noticed it was a Serbian Orthodox priest conducting the ceremony and realized they were Serbian children.
      
      She later saw the same funeral on CNN but with the priest cleverly cropped out, and with CNN saying they were Bosnian Muslim children killed by Serbs. (It was actually seeing this that she became an activist working against the lies and propaganda of the war, which continued in this vein.)
      
      So CNN used dead Serbian children against Serb and used them to increase the Muslim victim hood.
      
      Even in the movie “Welcome to Sarajevo” which was based on the true story of a British journalist who smuggled a girl out from a beleaguered Sarajevo orphanage and later successfully adopted her, they changed the girl from actually being a Serb (Natasa) into being a Muslim girl (Emira).
      And the orphanage she was at was run by a Serb woman.
      So they changed a Serbian-run orphanage with Serbian children in the crossfire of the war, into being about the poor Bosnian Muslim orphans.
Ivan Lukic on September 26, 2015 · at 4:23 am EST/EDT

Another big demographic problem for Serbs is that they integrate almost too well in Western societies. First generation of Serbian kids born in Western countries does not speak Serbian language anymore. But not only kids are problem. Even gastarbeiters who retired have difficulties going back to Serbia. I personally know several retired gastarbeiters who spend more time in Germany than in Serbia. Obviously life in Serbia is too “exciting”.
- jomo on September 30, 2015 · at 10:58 pm EST/EDT
  
  It always seemed a shame to me that the best and brightest Serbs would go to the very same countries which demonized, worked against and attacked Serbia – and continue to finance their enemies against them.
  
  I always thought Serbs should try much harder for a NATO country, especially Russia.
  
  Yet Russia doesn’t seem all that welcoming to Serbs. Russia hasn’t even shown a desire for them, and Russia doesn’t have the developed and diversified economy to interest Serbs.
  Russia has exploited Serbian construction workers terrible – often working them as slave labor and not paying them.
  
  The problem is Serbs have too many enemies – which include the most powerful western countries – and these countries have other countries go along with them.
  Meanwhile Serbs have no true and strong friends.
  
  Any support by Greece and Russia has been rather minimal and often outstripped by those same countries’ support of Serbia’s enemies or working behind Serbia’s back.
Ivan Lukic on September 26, 2015 · at 4:38 am EST/EDT

Martin is 100% right! I am 52 and I do not have any children, nor I am married. The problem is that I am unemployed and I am financially supported by my retired father. I do not even think about family and kids. Having kids in “civilised” countries is very expensive.
Ivan Lukic on September 26, 2015 · at 5:00 am EST/EDT

But probably the biggest demographic problem in Serbia are abortions. There is more abortions (on a yearly basis) that newborns, meaning that the people are not impotent, they have appetite for sex, but they don’t want kids. And they don’t want kids because kids are too expensive pleasure. We are not living in Subsaharan Africa. We must educate our kids and feed them properly and that’s not easy in a failed economy.
- Uncle Bob 1 on September 26, 2015 · at 8:49 pm EST/EDT
  
  That was (is?) a big part of the problem in Russia as well.Abortion was easy to come by.I read years ago that there were 40 million abortions in Russia at the time of the report (accumulated).And for the same reasons you stated.Children are expensive,and if you want a higher lifestyle for “you” you don’t want children (or at least many) to take up your income.We come back here to the question of “individualism” as opposed to the survival of your entire ethnic people.I don’t really know a good answer.But I do know that if an answer isn’t found we can say goodbye to the ethnic peoples of Europe.The ethnic birthrate in Europe has to raise enough to at least “replacement” stage or the population will only die out.Right now a huge chunk of any raise in Europe’s population is from immigration from outside Europe (that is true of the US as well.The major increase is from immigrants and the children of immigrants.Deduct that,and the US is almost the same as Europe with that problem).
Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 26, 2015 · at 6:41 am EST/EDT

It appears in Soviet Belarus they still remember who it must be done:

Верасы Любовь,комсомол и весна
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBgUTb6S97U

Хор Турецкого – Комсомольское попурри
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XmULFymsBg

Now let’s get that confirmed by Worldbank’s own statistics:

https://www.google.de/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp_dyn_tfrt_in&idim=country:BLR:RUS:POL&hl=de&dl=de

As you clearly see, WITH PUTIN came the return of birth rates in RF and Belarus :)
Stunning is the negative development of “prosperous” EU-Poland during the same time.
But what was it was Mr. Andrew said?

Debunked!
Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 26, 2015 · at 7:01 am EST/EDT

Err, not “who” but “how”.
But with “whom”is also not unimportant ;)

But that cannot be the reason for problems, in Serbia either, smile: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=serbian+girls

Only problem: Many of them are already spoiled by western materialism.
Some communist youth TV and school programs could change that and are IMO urgently necessary.

Not only Donbass, Russia, Belarus and Kasachstan prove this, but also PMR shows it can still work:

В Тирасполе прошёл концерт с участием российских звёзд
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7km1FqRyenc

Военный парад в честь 25-й годовщины со дня образования ПМР – 02/09/15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXCz9R3nQTI
Ivan Lukic on September 26, 2015 · at 7:45 am EST/EDT

Andrew,

You are not only ignorant but you are malicious too!

In the year 510 BC, two citizens of Athens (Harmodius and Aristogeiton) killed Hypias, the tyrant of Athens. After that, citizens of Athens erected monument for the killers and placed it at Akropolis! That is because the killers of the tyrant are not criminals but heroes. Gavrilo Princip is not a criminal that started WW1 but a hero that killed tyrant.
- Anonymous on September 26, 2015 · at 2:26 pm EST/EDT
  
  Ivan:
  
  “You are not only ignorant but you are malicious too! In the year 510 BC, two citizens of Athens (Harmodius and Aristogeiton) killed Hypias”
  
  I encourage you to reread this history so you have it correct.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippias_(tyrant)
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmodius_and_Aristogeiton
  
  “Gavrilo Princip is not a criminal that started WW1 but a hero that killed tyrant.”
  
  And how was Princess Sophie, a harmless Christian mother, a tyrant? The bully and murderer Princip, an associate of other murderers and suicides, shot her in cold blood with one of his shots.
  
  And Franz Ferdinand, what government position did he hold that made him a tyrant? What political program was he undertaking to give him this label? How was he persecuting people in Bosnia? Whose life was threatened by Franz Ferdinand so that taking his life was a justifiable act of self-defense? Please explain your cause for justifying his extrajudicial killing. Make sure you include in this justification the reasons that Franz’s children should also be punished and be left as orphans.
  
  That the Serbian nation still honors this child of Cain is why it fails to prosper. Almighty God will not bless those who glorify murderers.
  - Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 26, 2015 · at 3:02 pm EST/EDT
    
    > Almighty God will not bless those who glorify murderers.
    
    Question: How many injustices, killings, wars and related deaths happened thanks to the Habsburg family in general and Franz Ferdinand in special??
    
    Response: Killing a murderer is not murder but justice and preventing further murders.
    And his oh so innocent wife may have one day inherited the throne, therefore she is not innocent.
    Also – I doubt she would have ever been happy again in her life, so maybe for her it was better.
    
    LBNL: The first assassination on the same day had failed, but they nevertheless _continued_ their parade. Only then they got shot. Own fault one would say …
    
    The 0.1% need to be shot. Otherwise one cannot break free of them.
    Sadly this will never happen.
    - Andrew on September 26, 2015 · at 9:35 pm EST/EDT
      
      Martin:
      
      I will let your advocacy of murder as a proper course of action and state policy speak for itself. I have nothing to say in response. Everyone can read it and decide for themselves.
      
      “Agreed, it would have been smarter to kill other people along with him, too.”
      
      I do want to dispel any notion that I agree with you that killing anyone was a “smart” thing to do. I am not sure why you say “agreed” in response to me like this.
      - Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 26, 2015 · at 11:35 pm EST/EDT
        
        I don’t know from which planet you are.
        How much has this blog has changed into a zombie zone!
        
        I say it again: The only way to stop mass-murderers to continue murdering masses is by bringing them to justice. Until recently this was common knowledge here. Or are you suggesting, that instead of self-defence one should first have a democratic beer with a Cyborg who shot your wife and your child and now wants to shoot you?
        
        With the real criminals it is even more necessary:
        
        The Money Masters – Bill Still
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwqUr7PSRO8
        
        You are a troll or a fool, Andrew.
        No other options possible.
  - Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 26, 2015 · at 3:29 pm EST/EDT
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archduke_Franz_Ferdinand_of_Austria
    
    “”””” Austria-Hungary did participate in the Eight-Nation Alliance to suppress the Boxers, and sent soldiers as part of the “international relief force”.”””””
    
    […]
    
    “””””Franz Ferdinand was a prominent and influential supporter of the Austro-Hungarian Navy in a time when sea power was not a priority in Austrian foreign policy and the Navy was relatively little known and supported by the public. After his assassination in 1914, the Navy honoured Franz Ferdinand and his wife with a lying in state aboard SMS Viribus Unitis.”””””
    
    “””””On Sunday, 28 June 1914, at approximately 10:45 am, Franz Ferdinand and his wife were killed in Sarajevo, the capital of the Austro-Hungarian province of Bosnia and Herzegovina, by Gavrilo Princip, 19 at the time, a member of Young Bosnia and one of a group of assassins organized and armed by the Black Hand.[4] The event led to a chain of events that eventually triggered World War I.
    
    Earlier in the day, the couple had been attacked by Nedeljko Čabrinović, who had thrown a grenade at their car. However, the bomb detonated behind them, hurting the occupants in the following car. On arriving at the Governor’s residence, Franz angrily shouted, “So this is how you welcome your guests — with bombs?!”[32]”””””
    
    Young Bosnia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Bosnia
    
    “””””Young Bosnia (Bosnian, Croatian, and Serbian: Mlada Bosna/Млада Босна) was a Yugoslavist (Pan-Slavist) revolutionary movement active in the Condominium of Bosnia and Herzegovina before World War I. The members were predominantly school students.[1] It included primarily Serbs but also Bosniaks and Croats”””””
    
    > And Franz Ferdinand, what government position did he hold that made him a tyrant?
    
    Maybe that’s news for you, but he was the Archduke of Austria, an Empire that has occupied much of Eastern Europe for centuries.
    Here his positions: Franz Ferdinand (18 December 1863 – 28 June 1914) was an Archduke of Austria-Este, Austro-Hungarian and Royal Prince of Hungary and of Bohemia, and from 1896 until his death, heir presumptive to the Austro-Hungarian throne.
    
    Agreed, it would have been smarter to kill other people along with him, too.
    The well-known dynasties running the globe. Franz Ferdinand was in fact only a peasant compared to the real tyrants – which we will never get …
  - jomo on September 26, 2015 · at 6:54 pm EST/EDT
    
    Sophie was an accident and Austria set up their deaths.
    
    Austria did not give them any protection even though they were warned. They paraded them in an open car with no protection despite having their army and security forces occupying BiH.
    
    Austria chose a Serbian holiday to do this and was having military maneuvers on the border with Serbia – those are usually a precursor of war.
    
    Austria was itching for an excuse to invade Serbia for many years.
    
    Austria did not stop his tour even after the failed bomb attempt, and in the end drove the car right to where Princip was standing and stopped it in front of him, then it stayed stopped so he could walk right up and finally get the deep done.
    
    Austria did not like the Archduke nor his morgantic wife. Austria did not even mourn him. His funeral was boycotted.
    
    The Archduke stood in the way of a wanted war: the Archduke worried about Russia and was thinking of bringing Serbs/south Slavs as partners into the Empire.
    
    Austrian intelligence would have known of the plot and I believe was the one behind it and feeding info to the radical groups.
    
    Austria had two birds killed with one bullet with this: it got rid of the Archduke it didn’t like and got its excuse for war.
    
    And Austria was a land-grabber – grabbing land of other ethnics.
    
    After the assassination, Austrian police started rounding up and hanging Serb civilians, including women.
    
    Austria killed 10s of thousands of SERBIAN WOMEN AND CHILDREN for the one morgantic wife they didn’t even like.
    - Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 26, 2015 · at 7:56 pm EST/EDT
      
      @ jomo: You are 100% spot-correct.
      
      Thank you for making this clear.
      You are right: All these contradictions make only sense if his family sacrificed him and his wife with full intention, so to say as a mixture of JFK (to get rid of problems [Red Dollar State bank notes, his criticism regarding Israel’s nukes and his refusal to accept Northwoods against Cuba]) and 9/11 (as pretext for more wars).
      
      Because before I had wondered why they killed exactly the person who actually wanted to give them more rights:
      
      Map of the federalization of Austria-Hungary planned by Archduke Franz Ferdinand, the member states with separate governments
      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/Greater_austria.png/800px-Greater_austria.png
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archduke_Franz_Ferdinand_of_Austria
      “””””He also advocated a careful approach towards Serbia – repeatedly locking horns with Franz Conrad von Hötzendorf, Vienna’s hard-line Chief of the General Staff, warning that harsh treatment of Serbia would bring Austria-Hungary into open conflict with Russia, to the ruin of both Empires.”””””
      
      And the story about his assassination always raised my eye brows and reminded me so much of JFK:
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Archduke_Franz_Ferdinand_of_Austria#Fatal_shooting
      “””””After learning that the first assassination attempt had been unsuccessful, Princip thought about a position to assassinate the Archduke on his return journey, and decided to move to a position in front of a nearby food shop (Schiller’s delicatessen), near the Latin Bridge.[79] At this point the Archdukes’ motorcade turned off the Appel Quay, mistakenly following the original route which would have taken them to the National Museum. Governor Potiorek, who was sharing the second vehicle with the Imperial couple, called out to the driver to reverse and take the Quay to the hospital. Driver Lojka stopped the car close to where Princip was standing, prior to backing up. The latter stepped forward and fired two shots from a distance of about one and a half metres (5 feet)[80] using a Belgian-made 9×17mm (.380 ACP) Fabrique Nationale model 1910 semi-automatic pistol. Pistol serial numbers 19074, 19075, 19120 and 19126 were supplied to the assassins; Princip used #19074″””””
      
      This odd story reminds me so much of JFK, it _stinks_:
      
      John F Kennedy’s bodyguards being told to stay away from JFK
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFpPjjKdUds
      - jomo on September 27, 2015 · at 8:35 pm EST/EDT
        
        “Driver Lojka stopped the car close to where Princip was standing”
        
        How convenient. Stopping the car next to the suspicious young man with the gun, and waiting for him to walk up pointing the gun at the Archduke. And I don’t believe it was too much “sacrifice” for his family, because there’s a quote by his uncle on Ferdinand’s death in which he sounds fine, even content, with what happened.
        
        Here’s some more about Austria and Germany wanting war, their reasons, how no one in Austria seemed sad, and some of the brutality upon civilian Serbs after the assassination:
        
        “The primary proponent of this wrongheaded thinking among the military was Franz Conrad von Hertzendorf, who is said to have proposed attacking Serbia some 25 times in the period leading up to WWI.”
        http://peachmilitaryhistory.blogspot.com/2015/04/austria-hungary-collapse-of-instigator.html
        
        “I have read the minutes of the Austrian cabinet meeting which decided on the ultimatum and it is quite obvious that they intended it to be unacceptable to any country. In fact, Austria had been spoiling for a fight with upstart Serbia for ten years.
        The Imperial German government had, in effect, given Austria a ”blank cheque” of support for dealing with Serbia which would bring Russia into the war.
        It is often forgotten that, at the time, the Russian economy was booming rather like China has done recently and the German General Staff thought it would be easier to defeat Russia sooner rather than later, when it would have completed its railway system and modernised its infrastructure.” Edward Spalton
        
        The esteemed Czech-born historian Zbyněk Zeman asserts that nobody in Vienna seemed to care, and the next day crowds were seen listening to music and sipping wine as if nothing of any importance had happened. In Sarajevo, by stark contrast, Austrian authorities encouraged mob violence against the Serbs and many Serbian residents were attacked and imprisoned. Estimates of how many Serbs died in custody range from 700-2200. http://www.reformer802.com/speakerscorner/2014/07/10/neither-accusation-nor-confession/
        
        The Great war: Austrian hell for 15,000 Serbs in Arad
        http://theremustbejustice.wordpress.com/2014/03/02/the-great-war-austrian-hell-for-15000-serbs-in-arad/
Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 26, 2015 · at 9:59 pm EST/EDT

It also belongs into this thread, because THIS IS SERBIA RIGHT NOW:
It shall give you a first taste who is respectless here.

Watch these images and then wait until Mr.Salaam blames me for “spreading hatred”:

Muslim migrants violate Christian cemetery in the Serbian-Croatian border area
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vKLgfxxpVE
Ivan Lukic on September 27, 2015 · at 11:05 am EST/EDT

Austro-Hungarians were officially warned by Serbian Government about possibility of attack on Archduke. They disregarded the warnings because they wanted war at any cost! In fact Serbia did not want war and was not ready for war. Serbia was one of the few countries that did not want the war. But almost all other European nations (including Russia) wanted war and needed war. The reason for this is that there was great threat of socialist revolutions in all European countries, so capitalists needed some big distraction to prevent socialist revolutions, and what could be bigger distraction than war. In the case of Russia, instead of preventing socialist revolution Russia get one! But such is the nature of big wars, you can not plan everything in advance.

Essential reading:

John Zerzan, Telos 49, Origins and Meaning of World War I. New York: Telos Press Ltd., Fall 1981.
- Martin from Soviet East-Berlin on September 27, 2015 · at 12:52 pm EST/EDT
  
  > In the case of Russia, instead of preventing socialist revolution Russia got one!
  
  With Germany it was the same, that’s why Germany unexpectedly lost the war which it almost won at first
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Brest-Litovsk
  
  even despite the involvement of the USA after the staged Lusitania false flag (to justify to the USA’s public joining the war, a kind of Pearl Harbor or 9/11).
  
  But the German Empire ironically harvested their own seeds (once directed to destroy Russia) :
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiel_mutiny
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosa_Luxemburg#German_Revolution_of_1918.E2.80.931919_and_murder
  
  It is very unfortunate that there was soon a counter-revolution in Germany.
  This was worse than if Germany had won WW1, because now Germany was still not a communist country but the evil western bankers were still unsatisfied because neither Russia nor Germany could be enslaved as they had intended.
  
  And this made them want and prepare (Verditc of Versaille) for WW2 from day 1, as continuation of WW1.
dulebg on September 27, 2015 · at 8:21 pm EST/EDT

Visiting any public place, such as: streets, public vehicles, non-food shops, coffee-bars, theater and concert halls, holiday places on Mediterranean coast – one could conclude that only young people live in Serbia.

Parents are in free will exile in their homes, in front of TV-sets, trying to earn in all the ways they know, saving the money from their pensions, in fact – financing theirs children extended childhood. The only places where old men can be seen are: food markets, bank and post offices for paying bills, and the secret manufactures that have not been destroyed by global production.
kosta on September 28, 2015 · at 12:59 am EST/EDT

So how is this demographic crisis any different than the entire west and Japan???

Even in the USA the birthrate has fallen just below replacement levels.

In Greece the low birthrate coupled with the skyhigh suicide rates of young men makes Serbia look as if they are having a babyboom.

The solution is simple but the people reject the solution.
- jomo on September 30, 2015 · at 10:53 pm EST/EDT
  
  The U.S. population and Japan’s are still RISING. If you read carefully it’s that the rise is not as high as it was before.
  
  But Japan is very densely populated. And U.S. doesn’t need the migrants to fill its empty west. In the past the U.S. was advertising for people from Europe to settle its west – the U.S. was even claiming higher rainfall totals and better climatic conditions than actually existed in its west and northwest.
  
  Many immigrants who came to settle those areas faced a rude awakening.
  
  Also with Japan and the U.S. you have a lot of robots and mechanization, so they don’t need the workforce as much as before.
Sam on September 29, 2015 · at 7:09 pm EST/EDT

All Nations infected with Western ‘enlightenment’ suffer from demographic decline (which is a virtual genocide).
‘Freedom’ and ‘individuality’ directly lead to rejection of duty and obligation to ones people and Nation. One of the duties being rejected is parenthood.
For this Western civilization is toxic, self destructive, and will inevitably destroy every people that adopt it.
zaka on March 23, 2018 · at 11:02 pm EST/EDT

Ty for information