Appeal by Viktoria Shilova, a politician form the Donbass region:
Saker Message:
Appeal by Viktoria Shilova, a politician form the Donbass region:
If anyone has any connection to that woman or her YouTube account get her to delete the video straight away. She sounds like a ranting harpie.
She may be making good points but nobody is going to listen to her unless they already know her and are predisposed to agree with whatever she is saying.
She will persuade nobody with that video.
And for those who might argue with me about this, remember that the ‘how’ we communicate is at least as important as ‘what’ we say. Her tone and body language threatened me from her first words.
This is a war and people are being killed. Really. And you feel threatened by a lady’s words and body language? Try Disney Land vor a change.
I would not like to get on the wrong side of her! Seriously, a great message, will promote this video.
-There is also talk now of Right Sector [Note: Praviy Sector] issuing a 48 hour warning to the Kiev Junta [Note: Confirmed], that they will stop fighting and march on Kiev if their demands are not met!-
I do want to warn for this kind of publications.
It may aswell the opposite will happen.
Good luck Novo!!
Truth is beauty and beauty is truth!
Great video. Well said. Bravo.
Saker, you need to read this, a first class analysis of the background.
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article46930.html
JohninMK
Anon 20:30,
Yes the other right sector leader got assasinated a few months ago, by proberly by kiev junta (after some arguments).
Mostly this leader (Yarosh) will be “dealt with” also the same way.
But this is one of few times i actually root for the neo-nazis.
Best is if neo-nazis (right secor/svoboda) opens up a second front in west ukraine.
The junta cant attack on two fronts (and atleast not without the neo-nazis hooligans).
The neo-nazis is the juntas “falesafe” for holding armytroops in check. (Extortion, killing, shelling any army troops who abandoned their positions. Making it hopeless for alot of armypeople to desert/run away).
Without the nazy thugs in the rear, it will be much harder for the junta to hold their own army in line.
Sorry lady it’s too late now,
Ukraine has died in Odessa.
Waving yellow & blue flag and asking people to stop fighting is just like waving red flag in front of a bull asking him to calm down.
Ukraine is dead and nobody can do anything about it any more.
End of story.
The are loosing and they know it. Two questions for anyone peddling this kind of stories:
1. Where were you last winter?
2. What did you personally do, then and now, to protest situation and defend constitutional order?
And please, do not try to switch flag nor unbutton one more. These will not work on those who are going through hell of Donbas.
To Dusty 20:01
Have you ever been the victim of the war? Or being the victim of the desperate situation?
Or are you just trolling here………?
Dusty is the classic liberal archetype. Perception and incrementalism under all circumstances up to and including extential threats. Liberals are utterly worthless in revolutionary settings and it’s best to ignore them until the battle is won.
I would pay money to see Local Deputy Lady use her harpie witchcraft and kick Dusty’s keister in a UFC type match. Local Deputy Lady needs to run for president. She should produce another video, educating people over there to look west, far west, to help spread the blame.
@Dusty what the hell is a harpie? She sounds alright to me – she might not be familiar with slick public relations spin but she makes appeals with a genuine nature.
Ultimately this is a tragedy – ukranian men and civilians donbass are dying for a regime composed of psychopathic oligarchs and nazi soccer hooligans.
Those in Ukraine that can see through the partisan ethnic politics need to unify their voice and get the scumbags out of government and into courtrooms facing judgment for abuse of power, war crimes, etc.
dusty why don’t you make youtube videos then lmao.
what a silly critique
Wow. Courage, passion, facts. I’m proud it was a woman speaking up like this too — very, very proud indeed. So dusty, I could not disagree with you more — not only did she do an excellent job, people absolutely will listen.
Unless they don’t want to, of course, bc they’re too tied in with the Junta and those who control it. I.e., those who are battling hard to maintain the brutal, thieving and utterly destructuve Anglo-Zionist Empire. If the shoe fits…
Viktoria Shilova (Виктория Шилова) is a member of the Dnipropetrovsk City Council and Oleg Lyashko’s Radical Party. A Maidanite rat if there ever was one.
Wikipedia
VKontakte
Video recorded August 13. Original here:
Виктория Шилова. Хотят ли украинцы войны?
The Ukrainian Civil War has now killed 22,000 people, including 6,000 civilians. The loses of the Ukrainian army and irregular forces are 12,000 killed and 7,000 wounded.
***
Who is “dusty” @ 20:01 anyway? This is one of the strongest statements I have heard for ages!
Dusty=Troll Troll=Dusty
dusty, people get emotional because in all likelihood, they have lost someone – or more than one, in particular an INNOCENT civilian – to a murdering traitor working on behalf of foreigners.
I’d like to see YOUR video, after someone close to you gets killed by your Government, which calls civilians ‘terrorists’. On the other hand, perhaps you are one of those people who are simply defficient in HUMANITY, and empathy. Has that poroshitko been reading goebbels?
She is of course, quite right. How the Ukrainian army, nay, war CRIMINALS, can deliberately target civilian areas with imprecise GRADS, shelling blocks of flats etc, killing people in wheelchairs, and the elderly, those who are the least able to flee and are dependent on others, not to mention the children and babies being killed…neo-nazi thugs they are, and the idiots are naturally too stupid to see that they are being used, and will receive the blame, if they do not die in the meantime.
As for you dusty, go to youtube and look in the eyes of the lady with the red top, who was more than likely murdered in Luhansk on June 02, and come back here and report your feelings on seeing that. I bet you won’t though.
Dusty,
You are a sore looser. The lady is Great. This.is.a.call.to.arms. No more “negotiations”. Go Novorossia! You have everything to gain. And we all look up to you and cheer for this success.
Dacian
For those readers, who want a quick heads up on what’s going on in the Ukraine, they need to
understand it in the context of the American blueprint, the Project for the New American Century, signed off by the neocons and the likes of cheney, which describes in essence what the US needs to do to remain, and retain, its status as THE world’s (military) superpower, this century, while pursuing its goal of ‘national interests’ meaning of course that the Yanks will do as they please regarding the world’s resources, with emphasis on the ME and the Caspian area, and I might as well throw in the survey done by the USG in Afghanistan describing its mineral wealth at $1 trillion. (But leave out Unocal and the pipeline). Those who believe it was about obl should stop reading now, and go and watch those disney cartoons.
Then of course, there’s the EU, which wants to expand eastwards, and suck up those countries,
formerly of the USSR, of the Eastern Partnership, into the EU (eventually), joined to the US
militarily through NATO.
There is more to this than that, but that’s the most important, at this stage. Besides, it would
take too long, but what is happening in the Ukraine is the detail, and guess which pawn is being played at the moment, and what often happens to them, sadly. However, I’m somewhat more optimistic for the Ukrainians…
Coldtype,
Dusty is a troll, plain and simple. He could be a Conservative, Liberal, Nazi, Zionist, whatever: what’s crystal clear is that he’s invested in the AZ Empire and doing its bidding. Liberals may be fools and a lot of them are still clearly flummoxed by Obama but it wasn’t Liberals who supported the Iraq War and called everyone who opposed it a traitor — or have you forgotten? (Lots and lots of Conservatives seem to have very poor memories on that and somehow have convinced themselves they were against it all along. Bull Bleep — I remember.) I might add that this whole mess is a Neocon project, and those guys who planned it and carried out are anything but Liberal. So cut the crap about Liberals, or take your hate elsewhere. Also too, Patriots talk a good game, but where are they when they’re needed, like right now in Ferguson? * crickets *
Hello, in novoros.info, a site in which Edward Limonov contributes to, it is already posted two articles. Privy Sector appears as putting Poroshenko under an ultimatum. Or he concedes to their demands, or they withdraw from the frontline and march to Kiev. So, it very much seems that the fascists demise may be accelerated by their own power struggle.
Good!
@Dusty
…remember that the ‘how’ we communicate is at least as important as ‘what’ we say.
Bwah.
I am picturing a hasbara nerd troll terrified of beautiful women and powerful truth.
After four months of fighting and killing of innocent civilions now the rats start evacuating the sinking US-ship. Where were they when the killing started?
Thé vidéo is perfectly fine and Dusty”s comment is just weird.
But concerning negotiations: at this point the only negotiations that can be made would be along the lines of how the victims will decide the fate of the nazi leadership.
All those pigs must be handed over to the people of Luhansk and Donetsk .
All oligarchs’ property confiscated and managed by the workers of these places.
I believe that time is running out for these nazi scum. An appeal has to be made urgently to the anti-fascists in Ukraine: Do not send your sons to kill innocent people. Your greatest enemies are in the Verkhovna
Rada. Take up arms against them. Expropriate all their wealth and let the workers of Ukraine manage it. Arrest all foreign mercenaries and kick the NATO garbage out.
This is a matter of urgency!
This appeal will surely reach loud and clear to much of Europe as well.
Afterall, not all Ukrainians or Europeans are nazi lovers.
OK, but how was she six months ago or even six years ago? She was fairly stridently Ukrainian nationalist, wasn’t she?
It may take courage to say what she did, and, if so, she deserves credit for that. But the current disaster in the Ukraine was not that hard to see for many years.
Besides, the problem is not that Ukrainians wanted war, it is that they didn’t want peace enough. They were too busy jumping to prove they weren’t Russian and burning Putin in effigy.
Viktoria Shilova (Виктория Шилова) is a member of the Dnipropetrovsk City Council and Oleg Lyashko’s Radical Party. A Maidanite rat if there ever was one.
If this is true, as I suspected, that means that she is worried about the NR forces breaking out past Lug and Don, certainly as far as Dniep, where she is located. So, she is telling Kiev, “Be smart and cut your losses now when you are still ahead.
Better late than never, I think.
Of course, someone could ask where she was and what she’s done all this time, but after all even St. Paul did keep the assassins’ cloaks when the Jews stoned the First Martyr.
Repentance is always possible, and sincere repentance means always resurrection.
What really matters is the Truth and this woman is saying the truth, and she is saying it in a powerful way.
From the teaching of the same St. Paul: we’ll take what is good from anybody!
P.S. – I strongly suspect that all the body language analysts have the same body language when they report: they sit on a WC!
Ladies and gentlemen the video made by the woman above is not designed to persuade me, or you, of anything. We are already converts.
Her task is to persuade others to a similar point of view as that held by you and I.
Look at the video in THAT light. Better yet, turn off the subtitles and just go by her voice and body language. You’ll soon see the point.
Some of you are saying that the message she is trying to spread is not needed, that the ‘truth’ is obvious. It isn’t. A few people in the region surrounding a couple of relatively remote cities might think as she does but millions and millions of ordinary people do not.
So, as a thought experiment, try this: recall the last time that anyone persuaded you of anything by screaming at you.
When was it?
OK, now we know, NEVER!
And that’s the point I was making.
Her words, written down might be sweet and soft as honey but if they are delivered as a rant and at a scream then they mean nothing.
There’s a time and place for a rant. Hitler learned that many years ago and others have followed – the purpose is to hyponotise the audience, not to persuade and even when looking at such speeches we can see that the speech is a performance, it has rhythm, timing – tempo. No matter what the cliche might be from 10 second clips, a ten minute rant does no good at all.
So, if you want to see people like her getting a message out to the world, persuade the messengers to moderate, to be somewhat like their audience, to relate to the audience and not assault them.
And maybe, just maybe, get the speakers to speak in an aural environment that does not encourage the harshness of the speaker’s voice.
Oh, one last thing a harpy or harpie is an angry and unpleasant woman.
courageous (and gorgeous) woman! however I don’t believe her life expectancy is very big, unfortunately…
dusty,
Once again, your concern is touching. Or not. But as a woman, I find your intense discomfort with this video, erm, interesting. Please do get some help. Or conversely, if you really do care as deeply as you claim to, a good way of working through your discomfort would be to make a video yourself. Show us how you think it should be done!
I’m not too sure I’d call her speech a ‘rant’ by a ‘harpy’, that’s a bit over the top, don’t you think, Dusty, old chap? Sounds to me like she’s pretty upset and sees what is happening in Novorossiya to both sides. She’s not in a state of the art sound studio with mixers for her voice and 25 makeup people fluttering around in the background, she’s in front of a bleedin’ glass door.
My translator, who speaks fluent Russian, English and Ukrainian, listened to the entire speech. As can be expected there is some dialog that was missed in the captions but basically the captions get the gist of what she said.
Ya see, Dusty, old man, women get upset a lot more and a lot quicker than we men, and women also have far longer memories than we mere men have. They are also more forgiving than we men are…..to a point.
Women give birth to us, they are the ones who nurture us through infancy, childhood, the teen years, young adulthood. They are the ones who help us with school work, teach us all the niceties of life and living, in essence civilize us. And they are the ones who weep for us when we return on our shields, they are the ones who wash the blood and dirt off us, they are the ones who wrap us in the burial cloths, they are the ones who weep over our graves. It is women who shed tears over the senseless killings, it is women who weep when they see a young mother torn to pieces with a dead child in her arms, it is the women who cry over a young couple cut down in their prime whilst riding bicycles on a deserted street, it is women who wail at at the sight of the dead father and his two year old daughter killed by a random Grad shot, it is women who weep over the charred and dismembered corpses of soldiers from both sides.
This speech is not a screaming rant, it is a relatively measured and emotional plea to STOP IT! STOP IT! STOP IT!!
The war will not stop. While it is the women who suffer more than we men in war, it is we men who fight and we men who remember the fighting and all we have seen. We are the ones who get the blood lust in our eyes and we are the ones who turn that blood lust in to victories. The price has been hideous and in the end the price will be far higher than the price already paid. The time for negotiations is past, long past. For Novorossiya it is now victory or death. I have no doubts as to what the outcome will be.
Anonymous said it correctly:
Dusty=Troll Troll=Dusty
Dusty=Troll Troll=Dusty
Dusty=Troll Troll=Dusty
Get the idea, Dusty, that Trolling is a Zero Sum for Trolls on this very smart blog?
You failed.
OK, so let us get this straight – just so we understand each other.
As long as people agree with you, as long as ‘groupthink’ is maintained, then we are all OK.
At the point where groupthink is threatened by another viewpoint, whether valid or not does not matter here, then the new perspective is a threat to groupthink and thus the speaker is to be attacked?
So, lets look at what I wrote about.
Did I criticse the ideas of the woman?
No I did not.
Did I say she spoke untruthfully?
No I did not
Did I criticise the presentation?
Yes I did.
So, please answer a question, think about it because your answers will be instructive in respect of your ability to think independently.
Remember this: in the final analysis, your most powerful weapon, the best survival tool that you have is not a gun, not a knife, not even food and water. Your most powerful survival weapon and tool is your ability to think.
Without independent thought every other asset that you have is valueless.
So, here’s the question:
Do you believe that the presentation of an argument influences the ability to persuade an audience to a new point of view?
YES/NO
A corollary:
Do you believe that first impressions are important (even if you wish that they were not!)
YES/NO
=============================
OK, assuming that you chose the correct (and it really is!) answer then you agree in principle with what I posted above.
To the second, assuming you chose the correct (and again it really is!) answer then, again, you agree with what I wrote above.
So, given all that, what do we learn from this?
Well, we learn that there are people here who, for one reason or another choose to adhere to a groupthink mode of cognition. You reject ideas that you believe do not fit the chosen mode of the group and, quite correctly in the context, attack the bringer of such challenges.
The problem is that by engaging in this kind of groupthink (unthinking?)you are making yourselves open to manipulation as opposed to persuasion. You will accept a bag of ideas because of their source and thus authority without examining them and that is antithetical to survival.
Examine ideas, consider them in the light of your knowledge (not beliefs, faith or opinion) and choose to accept or reject them on that basis alone.
I am no troll, but do not expect me, or any thinking person to fall into the trap of groupthink. Unless my thoughts and ideas are being challenged every day I am not learning. Same, same for you guys.
dusty,
Let’s do try this again. Yes, you objected strenuously to her non-verbal presentation, and of course non-verbals always matter quite a bit. But after making those rather obvious points, you’re now complaining about group-think.
Yeah, you got hit hard by a lot of people but you might look for other reasons as to why. I.e., let’s examine your own contribution to said hits. What could possibly explain that number of people, from a variety of positions, backgrounds and points of view, all calling you a troll? Could it possibly be a good combination of the effect of your post (which, despite your putative intent, came across as “OMG! OMG! Don’t take her seriously! Don’t let anyone else see it! OMG!), and the bulk of your other posts, which likewise look far more like concern trollery than anything else. I also seem to remember you said you’re from some Eastern or Central European country and yet when Auslander repeatedly asked you about that sport where people run down a field kicking a ball, you, erm, called it soccer.
So no, I wouldn’t call it group-think, I’d call it individual awareness on a fairly large scale. I.e., nice try but no go.