- Heavy fighting around Slavyansk increasing in tempo for the last 3 hours. Slavyansk under assault from 7 areas. Artillery is being used, at least one apartment building is burning in one of the outlying towns under assault.
- Self propelled arty, Msta-S reported, 15.2 cm howitzer type, are on the move with all their support echelons. Tanks are on the move, some heading for Slavyansk, some Donetsk.
- Grad batteries are on the move, direction unknown.
- Numerous BTR’s are on the move, mostly right sector troops on them.
- At least one Sukhoi ID’d in a bomb and rocket attack.
- Mi24’s were supporting two of the Slavyansk attacks until dark.
- Looks like the full assault. Going to be a long night.
- The man in this photo is no Ukrainian soldier although photoed in Donetsk Oblast. BTR is obviously Afgan or Irak service with the metal screens all around. Only seen the one, photo is from RT of all places with no comment, BTR has been seen in several vids as has that one soldier.
- Two foreign journalists get killed by arty, their Russian translator, a women, almost dead and their driver badly wounded. The Video was up on YouTube and gone in minutes. Near Slavyansk.
- Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics have declared the creation of Novorossiya union.
- 145 delegates from the Odessa, Nikolaev, Dnepropetrovsk, Zaporozhye, Kharkov, Kherson, Donetsk and Lugansk Regions have announced the creation of a pro-federalization Popular Front which now unites all of the Ukrainian regions East of the Dniepr river and on the Black Sea coast.
Saker Message:
I have never seen the acronym ‘arty’ before and assume it is a military one and means ‘artillery’?
Psychiatric hospital partially destroyed by the ucraynian army after bombardments of Semiónovka village, close to Slaviansk.
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdPNxlyohRs
IMO this clip of the Italian mercenary (which EuroMaidanPR laughably insisted was just an Italian-speaking Ukrainian soldier — where’d he learn, Rome while working as a waiter?) hasn’t received the attention it deserves. The clip where the captured guy grunts ‘I’m an American citizen’ wearing a SOKOL (Falcon) uniform of Ukrainian special Interior Ministry troops looks like it was faked by the rebels or in Russia, if for no other reason than there is no context to it or where in the Donbass it was filmed.
However, as I said in the previous thread more exposure of non-Ukrainian combatants fighting for Kiev is inevitable.
American Kulak
Does that soldier in the picture have some sort of band on his well-creased left sleeve?
Dear The Saker,
http://rt.com/news/161336-foreign-journalists-shot-ukraine/
It looks like an Italian journalist is dead along with Russian translator. French journalist wounded but alive.
Itar-tass has the same information but deaths aren’t verified yet.
The lifenews journalists are free. Thanks to Chechens.
Looks like things are continuing to deteriorate for the Junta.
Rgds,
Veritas
Hmmm… “escalation across Donbass” … and today (the 25th of May) there is supposed to be an “election” in “Ukraine” :-? :-)
My heart is just breaking for these people. Here is the original:
https://m.facebook.com/pgubarev/posts/873162949377118
The Yandex translation, part 1 of 2:
Paul Gubarev
1 hour ago near Donetsk, Ukraine
AN OFFICIAL STATEMENT
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Donetsk national Republic and Novorossia
About the military conflict between the new Russia and the government of Kiev
and the so-called “elections of the President of Ukraine” on may 25, 2014
on may 25, 2014 on part of the territory of the former Ukraine will be held the so-called “elections of the President of Ukraine assigned the actual government of Kiev.
In this connection, the foreign Ministry DND and Novorossia authorized to state the following:
1. Following the Declaration of Sovereignty and the Referendum on may 11, 2014 two republics Novorossia – Donetsk national Republic and Lugansk people’s Republic is a sovereign, which came together in the unification process of creating a new sovereign European federated States of Novorossia.
2. The actual government of Kiev, declared on elections of the President of Ukraine, may 12, 2014, the date of summarizing the results of the referendum, is the aggressor against in DND and LNR, and his forces, and armed groups – the occupying troops. We are authorized to state that we are at war with the actual government of Kiev. While we are not at war with the state of Ukraine, as he did not recognize and do not accept for actual Kiev by the government the right to represent the state of Ukraine, the head of which, except the self-determined Donetsk and Lugansk regions and the Crimean autonomy, before the end of his term in February 2016 is Mr. V.F. Yanukovych.
3. Besides the troops, subordinated to the actual government of Kiev against DND and LNR currently fighting punitive forces with participation of Ukrainian and foreign mercenaries, subject to the actual government of Dnipropetrovsk, headed by Mr Kolomoisky, who, according to the available facts, not directly report to the government of Kiev, while his allies, and mercenary forces and gangs of different subordination, including armed groups of mercenaries from third States. Last allows to speak about the fact that international aggression against the new Russia, which under the UN Charter, includes shipments of armed mercenaries.
4. Authorized to curl that on the territory of Donetsk national Republic and Luhansk people’s Republic cannot take place, and will not be held no elections of the President of Ukraine”, and the results will have on our territory legal consequences. At the same time, we must warn that in the occupied the actual government of Kiev area, such as svatovsky district, where armored vehicles and troops of the Kiev government, such a vote could be held, and the results are used for propaganda purposes. We’ll also assume that the allies of the Kyiv government – NATO countries and the EU, as well as a fully joined the views of the OSCE – recognize the results of these elections, and will take steps to legitimize the new regime.
part 2 of 2:
5. We assume that the expectations of some politicians to pacify the aggressor after the elections are false, and receiving a semblance of legitimacy Kiev mode will not bring the troops, but on the contrary — immediately undertake new military offensive in the East. Foreign Ministry DND and Novorossia obliged to warn all the politicians, and all States to prevent any actions to legitimize the aggressor. In this case, they may have to bear a responsibility for committed by Kyiv war crimes, namely the promotion of incitement of a war of aggression, crimes against peace and international security, for the continuing war crimes Kiev regime against the norms of the Geneva conventions, against prisoners, the wounded and the civilian population.
Our evaluation is based on facts. Pay attention to the statements of the two main favorites of this election. So, Y.V. Tymoshenko stated their desire to burn out the Russians with weapons of mass destruction. Her wish was soon embodied in Odessa and Mariupol, where, under the orders of her companions were used chemical means of warfare. In regard to these facts, including on-demand our foreign Ministry, already initiated by the Organization for the prohibition of chemical weapons (OPCW) has the name: “the Mission the fact-finding possible use of chemical weapons” in the cities of Odessa and Mariupol. P.A. Poroshenko may 23, stated the need for the continuation of the war in the East, and promised mercenaries, ready to kill the population of Novorossia salary of three thousand dollars, and an additional one hundred thousand dollars for the funeral. Please note that these statements are not a campaign slogan – Ukrainian soldiers do not want to fight with people, and the number Kiev mercenaries invade to us from the West is growing daily.
6. In this regard, we were surprised to hear evaluations made in Moscow, where the elections were called “a step in the right direction”. We encourage politicians Russia again carefully consider their position. Can there be a “step in the right direction” actions leading to a tightening of war? Can there be a “step in the right direction” promotion and legitimization of the regime, which has already proved its ability to go to any war crimes, including the use of WMD and the execution of wounded right on the beds occupied hospital? Can, eventually, be a “step in the right direction” promotion winners in Kiev Nazi rise to legitimate the election of its new Fuhrer?
Perhaps, policy Russia build against the new authorities of Kyiv some illusions. We assume that these illusions will be destroyed on may 26, 2014, when the lists of victims of war and committed war crimes will be replenished with new and new facts. But in this case the blood will be on the conscience of everyone who directly or indirectly supported the elections on may 25.
We call upon all politicians immediately to distance themselves from these illegal elections, to condemn them, and in a certain way to make a statement about the non-recognition of their results.
The politicians have remained exactly one day to distance themselves from Kiev regime and conducted the “elections”, so new blood and new victims of war were laying on of conscience. Sure that the people of Donbass not believe any more krokodilom tears about the “innocent victims” and rescue condolences, wherever they were heard. We appeal to all persons having authority must warn all who hastily indicated their support for this dangerous for peace event: deny these elections now or you will share responsibility for all their tragic consequences.
ok, part 3 of 2… (!)
7. Foreign Ministry DND and the new Russia is confident that the military adventure of the Kiev authorities will suffer a crushing defeat, the aggressor will incur the deserved punishment, and all war criminals will appear before the international Tribunal for the former Ukraine. Expressing its commitment to the world, call upon all States to contribute to the achievement of lasting peace, the case of reining in Kiev aggressors.
The Collegium of the foreign Ministry DND and Novorossia,
in coordination with the State Council of Novorossia
on may 24, 2014
Kerry:
“You just don’t invade another country on phony pretext in order to assert your interests”
Obama:
“We are confronted with the belief among some that bigger nations can bully smaller ones to get their way — that recycled maxim that might somehow makes right.”
And now, Rear Admiral John Kirby after the coup in Thailand, calling off military exercises:
“our own democratic principles and U.S. law require us to reconsider U.S. military assistance and engagements,”
Yeah, right.
Honk
Well, somehow I blew that: could have sworn I got that third part in but it doesn’t seem to have appeared, so let me try again:
7. Foreign Ministry DND and the new Russia is confident that the military adventure of the Kiev authorities will suffer a crushing defeat, the aggressor will incur the deserved punishment, and all war criminals will appear before the international Tribunal for the former Ukraine. Expressing its commitment to the world, call upon all States to contribute to the achievement of lasting peace, the case of reining in Kiev aggressors.
The Collegium of the foreign Ministry DND and Novorossia,
in coordination with the State Council of Novorossia
on may 24, 2014
The Ukraine Crisis: Is the Worst Over?
While challenges certainly remain, there is reason to be hopeful in the long run.
Rajan Menon
May 22, 2014
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/the-ukraine-crisis-the-worst-over-10512
Since November, when Ukraine’s political turmoil reached a critical point, we’ve seen a flood tide of punditry that can be described as follows: Lots of gloom, dollops of doom. It’s time for some (cautious) optimism. For internal and external reasons, Ukraine appears to have turned the corner
If the election is cancelled for any reason Russia will be blamed. They’re trying to get Russia to send a few Iskander missiles across the border so they can cancel the election.
The west thinks Poroshenko is going to negotiate.
There is a news blackout and a comment ban about Ukraine in the UK where I live, I am British.
I am used to commenting on The Guardian, and linking on the comments to your analysis, but since yesterday it is not possible to comment anymore.
What surprised me was that not one single article on the front page of The Independent about Ukraine.
As The Independent is owned by the Oligarch Lebedev, I was wondering if what is happening in Ukraine is in fact an Oligarch war against the Ukraine Public, and so Lebedev is helping with a coverage and comments ban.
Very strange situation.
Hi Bill, this is petjes, fellow commenter on Guardian CIF, or at least I was as my account has now been disabled and Ive been banned. I was already being premoderated anyway but I really must have touched a raw nerve with the last post I managed to sneak through (an article from voice of Russia stating that fbi and cia agents were among the 600 odd killed by the Sloviansk self defence forces), and next thing I knew my account has been disabled and my profile deleted. So much for the “democratic” and “free speech” loving west. They have really overstepped the mark this time and for theife of me I honestly cannot understand why president Putin seems to be going along with the charade of the sham presidential elections.
I mean a few weeks ago a huge force of Russian military was mobilized ready to go teach these fascist scum a lesson and then next thing you know Russian forces are being withdrawn from the Ukrainian border and Putin is saying the electipns are a “step in the right direction”. What the fu*k is going on ? The Russians are going to have make a stand sooner rather than later as you cannot coexist with these sharks. I think president Putin is not so naive as not to realise this, so just what is he playing at. Is he abandoning fellow Russians in the east and souteast of Ukraine to the tender mercies of the kiev junta ?
There is a news blackout and a comment ban about Ukraine in the UK where I live, I am British.
I am used to commenting on The Guardian, and linking on the comments to your analysis, but since yesterday it is not possible to comment anymore.
What surprised me was that not one single article on the front page of The Independent about Ukraine.
As The Independent is owned by the Oligarch Lebedev, I was wondering if what is happening in Ukraine is in fact an Oligarch war against the Ukraine Public, and so Lebedev is helping with a coverage and comments ban.
Very strange situation.
Ukraine has started demanding money for the release of detained Russian journalists. A court in the city of Dnepropetrovsk ruled to release Stepan Chirich, a producer of Russia’s NTV television channel, as soon as the Russian side had agreed to pay 150,000 hryvnias (about 13,000 USD) for his release, Russia 24 TV news channel reported on Saturday.
http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/733160
Going, going and it’s all gone;
“Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics have declared the creation of Novorossiya union.
145 delegates from the Odessa, Nikolaev, Dnepropetrovsk, Zaporozhye, Kharkov, Kherson, Donetsk and Lugansk Regions have announced the creation of a pro-federalization Popular Front which now unites all of the Ukrainian regions East of the Dniepr river and on the Black Sea coast.”
Very interesting, today’s post at MoA wherein B cites the Brookings Institute, a major “Western” Think tank, Admits Defeat.
“There is simply no viable alternative for Ukraine than to cooperate with Russia and to pay the price that is necessary to do so. That is why Russia is just sitting back and waiting for that simple truth to become evident.”[,]
“The neocons had planned this attack on Russia via Ukraine and Crimea and they, again, failed. That does not mean that the issue is over”
Follow the money, isolating Russia, not a chance:
As former US Treasury official, Dr. Paul Craig Roberts observes there is the International Economic Forum being held in St. Petersburg, Russia.
Putin’s Threat Just Stunned U.S. & Europe
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2014/5/23_Paul_Craig_Roberts__Putins_Threat_Just_Stunned_U.S._%26_Europe.html
[.] “One of the advisors to Putin had publicly complained that Washington had put unprecedented pressure on American and European countries not to attend. But it turns out that present at this forum, which began yesterday and continues today and tomorrow, there are official delegations from 62 countries, and the CEOs of 146 of the major companies in the world….[.]
For example, the heads of BP, Total (SA), Shell, Exxon, Phillips, Caterpillar, they’ve all gone to the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum, despite Washington’s pressure.”
“So what we are seeing is that it’s OK to cooperate with Washington’s absurd foreign policy, until it starts to affect the bottom line.”
Anon Mongoose
I had trouble with that link to Paul Craig Roberts at KingNews (there’s a hyphen between 2 underscores between the words “Roberts” and “Putins” in the link but it doesn’t carry across in the text that Anon Mongoose posted.
Here’s a Bitly link I made for convenience:
http://bit.ly/1k5CjMY
Evidently most of the interview is audio and not quite ready at the website yet. But the “threat” came from Putin’s speech today, which I will have to find.
Roberts says Putin delicately threatened that Russia will not tolerate Ukraine in NATO.
Putin also indicated to the big business leaders present (but not in these words) that EU leaders were acting like puppets, that US pressure to stay away from the conference was over the top, and that the western policy of ignoring Russia’s legitimate interests and diplomatic representations would result in trouble if it continued.
Here is more:
“
This vid is only part of the stream. Around 29:25 you hear a damn close artillery/mortar hit. Then they got hit. They just called an ambulance casevac for a woman (italian translater?) because of injuries (shock and a neck injury). A woman start screaming. A guy asks for a knife. Asks where she’s bleeding from. Possibly the same Italian reporter as was speaking on the vid you posted previously?
Handling the entire team ANNA-NEWS!
Dear viewers , subscribers , readers and supporters simply !
Sorry to inform you that the channel “News-anna” Information Agency «Anna-news», has been open for a long time on the platform of the pro-American site “YouTube”, blocked for ” inappropriate content in the video .” This happened after the publication of the video where Slovyansk junta ruthlessly shoot civilians ! Our main theme https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz-GqIBiv-4 coverage of the Southeast, including the National Guard fighters mayhem ! By ” coincidence ” that happened 10 hours before the start of illegitimate elections on May 25 in the Ukraine !
Doubt ” pure coincidence ” of this phenomenon does not occur , as in the same way our junta blocked the channels created by similar pro-American site “Ustream” before the referendum in Donetsk and Luhansk, as well as our occupation authorities was not too lazy to crack once all our information Public pages and social networks !
We are touched by this amount of attention given to us by the tireless self-proclaimed fascist power and hasten to upset her , saying that all the important materials that have been published on our static channel ( including video captured during the battle of the trench Slovyansk in prof. Capacity) will be reuploaded to a new channel : “youtube.com / user / tvnewsfront”
Friends ! Please ! Much to ask ! After reading , do repost or post at this petition ! Let everyone know what methods enjoys junta not to give us cover events such what they really are .
We really need your help!”
https://www.facebook.com/TruthfromUkraine
It seems as if “the government” in Kiev do everything to clean up before the “election”. They kidnap people in broad daylight because they have a different political opinion than them.
A woman from Crimea told me that all the inhabitants of NovaRussia has been warned that if they do not participate in the election today, they will be executed. Many are afraid.
http://www.marxist.com/fascist-gangs-attempt-to-kidnap-borotba-activists.htm
About NATO in Ukraine:I do not know if there is some truth in this, but it is interesting.
https://twitter.com/nastia_yuriy/status/464403375455756288/photo/1
from:
https://www.facebook.com/DonbassRevolution
http://misssing-link.livejournal.com/527734.html
https://www.facebook.com/574477605978934/photos/a.574480652645296.1073741828.574477605978934/606985682728126/?type=1&theater
The American people are cowards. They don’t deserve to be free, and in fact that don’t deserve to live. And I say that as an American. If you are an American today, and know even a part of history from Wounded Knee through Guantanamo Bay and Odessa, you better realize that ‘law’ and ‘money’ don’t matter. You will either act on behalf of the people, or you will be wiped off the face of the earth. And I hold myself to that standard, act for the revolution or die.
For Mr Putin’s speeches, please check the following link.
http://eng.kremlin.ru/transcripts
The site hosts a continuously updated collection of Mr Putin’s speeches. (translated) It generally takes about a day for the latest speech to come up.
grieved 01h55 said:
“Evidently most of the interview is audio and not quite ready at the website yet. But the “threat” came from Putin’s speech today, which I will have to find.”
Here you have transcription of the whole thing, starting with Putin’s speech, and followed by the interview done by CNBC anchor Geoff Cutmore.
http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/7230
.
To any readers who may comment on large mainstream sites, please pass on support from America to Novorossia. There is no doubt they are going to win, and their humanity, courage and independence is really shining through. I think they will end up with a society/government more advanced than Russia or the US. They did it before about 100 years ago. Despite massive NATO propaganda and astroturfing, I can tell on a lot of sites that there is a significant percentage of Americans that are not buying the shit. And especially the youth and the left around the world are getting more into it, and today’s proclamation of Novorossia is a turning point. So I say, right on, and please pass it on. And USA, your time is up. Thanks.
The zionazis at youtube deleted the account of ANNA News in their usual zionazi-gay hasbara way. See:
США агентству ANNA-news: «Ваш аккаунт (newsanna на YouTube) отключен навсегда»
http://anna-news.info/node/16342
ANNA posted a list of antimaydana sites:
Чёрный список антиукраинских интернет-ресурсов (Black list of anti-Ukrainian Internet resources)
http://anna-news.info/node/16339
Each has a description:
http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/anna-news.info/node/16339
Cant vouch for all of the sites, some listed I know are useful.
I still want to know how Poltava, Chernigov, and Sumy will fit in this picture. They are east of the Dnieper, share a border with Russia, and yet are mostly Ukrainian by language and culture. In the past, the popualtion was generally pro-Western/Kievan, but things have been very quite there since March. This whole Novorossiyan movement does not mention them, but from a geopolitical/strategic standpoint I assume the land and people there will come into play if things start picking up in Kharkov and Dnipropetrovsk, however long it will take.
Honestly, except for the farthest western areas of the Ukraine (and maybe not even them), I cannot see how this can end with out Russia reabsorbing all of the country over the next thirty years or so. To leave things to fester is too great a risk, and I don’t see NATO’s resolve and fighting abilities improving over time. It will be an ugly process, but it will correct a mistake made back in 1991 when Yeltsin and Kravchuk splintered their nations apart without any thought of future implications.
At the very least I hope that before the end of this century, Russia manages to achieve true stability and prosperity, that which was so shamefully denied it in the 90’s by foolish neo-liberal scheming. When I think of the lost opportunities for American/Russian cooperation and the erosion of political liberty in North America and Europe, it makes my blood boil.
There is a story very much worth reading and is an eye-opener at the following-
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2014/05/the-chaos-engulfing-eastern-ukraine.html
Some newsie was reporting on the methods of the Donbass battalion in a small rural village in eastern Ukraine. Speaking of the Separatists, the Kiev-appointed administrative governor stated “I don’t have the authority to forgive them” which tells you all you need to know about what to expect from them.
The locals know by now that they either fight these thugs or go home and wait for them to be collected from their homes. All Kiev seems to know how to do is either cajoling the locals or promising terror if they do not comply.
As an aside, I have read that Kiev is giving Ukrainian volunteers short training courses and sending them east to fight the resistance. Apart from providing extra numbers of loyalists, I wonder if a secondary reason is to provide the hard-core Right Sector thugs cover for their operations the same way that they used those football supporters as cover in the Odessa operation.
The more the numbers, the harder it will be to identify any war criminals after all is said and done, especially since the typical Donbass uniform seems to include face masks – just a thought.
Please, Bot Tak, Crazy Ivan, or anyone who is reading the russian-language blogs, give us some real-time updates on what is happening to Slavyansk! Obviously there is a massive blackout operating throughout the mainstream media, including the Russian MSM. I know the bastards are shelling Slavyansk, and I very much fear they may start, or may have started, rocketing it. The point about the rockets, be they Smerch or whatever, is that the bastards can level a whole city block with one salvo. So what is going on there, tell us, please!
Not fans of Diebold
http://rt.com/news/161332-ukraine-president-election-virus/
Regarding deleted youtube videos: There is a useful extension ‘- click YouTube video downloader’ allowing youtube videos to be saved easily. I do this for any interesting videos that I suspect will be taken down
Russian journalists were ‘kept in dug-out, tied up with sacks on heads’.
http://rt.com/news/161372-russian-journalists-detention-lifenews/
I am unable to understand what the Kiev rulers are thinking. That they are ‘mad’ does not explain anything. How can they continue to enrage Russia like this — do they have a plan?
Putin’s warning discussed around 7:20 — 11:30.
http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2014/5/25_Dr._Paul_Craig_Roberts.html
Audio at:
http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2014/5/25_Dr._Paul_Craig_Roberts_files/Dr.%20Paul%20Craig%20Roberts%205%3A25%3A2014.mp3
Any news from the front?
I woke up late because I´m sore throat. I have to go to vote, but not before come to the blog to see how people in the Donbass is.
Last night did not look very well for them….
Nicely and tidely stacked ballot papers inside the ballot box…
https://twitter.com/oliviernfehr/status/470511510926929920/photo/1
NATO/EU = Evil
I am unable to understand what the Kiev rulers are thinking. That they are ‘mad’ does not explain anything. How can they continue to enrage Russia like this — do they have a plan?
Plan as stated openly in Atlantacist press is to enrage Russia and force a reactive response that can be spun as Russian agression within Ukraine, thereby justifying a NATO occupation of Ukraine (and Georgia and Moldova) and future punitive invasion of Russia/Belarus.Kazakhstan/Armenia by NATO leading to the overthrow of the Putin government and break up of Russian Federation into 21 more manageable and most definitely occupied statelets leading to Atlantacist domination of the geopolitical hinge of the world – the northern Eurasian landmass. The land will then be flooded with tens of millions of Chinese, Turks, and Muslims, while Russian people will be exposed to a continuous slow demographic genocide unti they are reduced to small pockets of picturesque Rus arctic states like the days of Novgorod and a Ukie/Rusyn statelet in Galacia/Volyn neither of whom will ever again dream of their own day in the sun. All land of any value, such as black earth farmland from Odessa to Almatay, will be given to more docile and stupid peoples who can be relied upon not to question Anglo-American masters, unlike Rus who are clearly to clever and too smart to understand that their assigned station is to lick boots of Anglos and Germans and participate in new democratic culture of sodomy.
Call it FALL BARBAROSSA if you wish. That is the plan.
Andrew,
You’re probably right, that is our (delusional) plan. But that doesn’t necessarily mean we’ll succeed. At least since WWII, we’ve never picked on anyone our own size. Also too, Putin’s a whole lot smarter than anyone on our side, probably smarter than Obama, Biden, Homeland Security and the State Department put together. Just compare and contrast:
On the one hand, a violent, foreign-sponsored putsch, warlord-oligarchs paying thugs and foreign mercenaries to commit hideous atrocities, killing journalists and preventing news coverage, shelling people about to vote, and using for that vote the very same easily-controlled Diebold machines that gave Bush his 2004 victory.
And on the other: Putin’s speech at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum, http://eng.kremlin.ru/news/7230 He knows what he is doing. And the question isn’t which option corporatists and politicians would choose, it’s how they can safely make that choice. My guess is slowly, in small pieces, and very carefully. But choose it they will.
This is a small snippet; the rest is even better.
“I am pleased to welcome here today our traditional old friends and new guests too, the heads of major Russian and foreign companies, representatives of leading international business associations, everyone who has long-term, strategic priorities with Russia and who shares the idea of partnership in the interest of global development.
We value highly this desire for cooperation and dialogue. We value your independent and responsible position that is free from short-term considerations of the moment.
Consistency and openness are always met with reciprocal steps and mutual trust. Trust is above all about finding compromises, mutually acceptable solutions, and working and acting together. This idea is the main theme of this year’s Forum – Sustaining Confidence in a World Undergoing Transformation.
The world is indeed changing very fast. We are witnessing colossal geopolitical, technological and structural shifts. The unipolar model of a world order failed, and this is clear to everyone today, even to those who still try to operate within the familiar reference system, try to maintain their monopoly, dictate their rules in politics, trade, and finance, and impose their cultural and behavioural standards.”
how Poltava, Chernigov, and Sumy will fit in this picture. They are … mostly Ukrainian by language and culture. In the past, the popualtion was generally pro-Western/Kievan,
In the recent past, this area and Kirovohrad were united in politics, culture, and language with the East, not the West.
http://dy1m18dp41gup.cloudfront.net/cdn/farfuture/qilyua3fl5uV0gFdE_K9_kneUR-agdLp5UQ5Dm31myE/mtime:1391567627/files/Map%20of%20langues.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/Ukraine_presidential_elections_1994,_second_round.png
As a result of Ukrainian linguistic and statehood propaganda in the educational system, this area has gradually been reattached in its dominant loyalty to be more like Galacia and less like Donetsk.
This whole Novorossiyan movement does not mention them, but from a geopolitical/strategic standpoint I assume the land and people there will come into play
They come into play because a neat 50-50 split of the country is likely to be impossible.
except for the farthest western areas of the Ukraine (and maybe not even them), I cannot see how this can end with out Russia reabsorbing all of the country over the next thirty years or so. To leave things to fester is too great a risk
You are correct. The best outcome in terms of geopolitical stability is the remergence of a united Rus – “Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, together” as the chant goes.
In the history of Civil Wars, they rarely end with one side successfully crushing the other completely, and the best way of ending them to maintain peace is that the losing side be defeated, but left with some rump statelet they can claim as a moral victory. For example – the Chinese Civil War, with the nationalists exiled to Taiwan, or the Anglo-American war of independence, with Loyalists exiled to Canada.
Where one side is completely crushed, it often ends up that they rule the political entity that defeated them because they are united as a bloc against the center and can align with whatever side of the main political entity offering them more at the time. See for example the behavior of the southerners in the US or the Boers in South Africa, where both groups effectively rule the state which defeated them by remaining united and switching loyalty as needed. In Ukraine the implication is a stable Ukraine in the interests of Russia requires what Vladimir Zhirnovsky stated – dettachment of what was taken in 1939 – Galacia and Volyn, and possibly Vinnitsyia as well, to give a moral victory to Banderastan. A stable pro-Russian Ukraine would include the Russian and Surzhyk speaking areas and not include West Ukraine. This would be a Ukraine able to identify with the Russosphere and to end its schizophrenia.
When I think of the lost opportunities for American/Russian cooperation and the erosion of political liberty in North America and Europe, it makes my blood boil.
Any man who can think, when considering on the one hand the proposal by Gorbachev of a “Common European Home” from “Vancouver to Vladivostok” that could have been launched with peaceful tri-polar leadership (Anglo-America, Franco-German Europe, and Russia) and worked towards common development of the northern hemisphere in the interests of its peoples, and now considers on the other hand what has actually happened cannot but sit back and cry or be angry.
This proposal hinged on the recognition of the need for each global power to pull back from the center – Europe. Anglo-America would need to be content with being the US, UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. “Francia” would need to be allowed to come into its own through dissolution of both NATO and the Warsaw Pact, creating a buffer sphere from Spain to Tallin, and including both the Scandanavia North and the Orthodox South in Europe. Russia would have limited itself to the core Rus/Orthodox lands.
Interesting story for journalists: how The Guardian acts as an agency of the police state. Currently conducting what amounts to a news blackout and disallowing comments, this pattern has occurred several times before at key moments in the conflict. Relentless biasing of language, willful misrepresentation of widely agreed on facts is a common pattern. Uniformly anti-Russian. Recently ran an editorial accusing commenters of being Russian trolls, but failed to point out the massive NATO trolling. The Guardian is a good case because it has to maintain the patina of ‘left liberalism’. Could be a good story for an enterprising journalist, it’s all on the public record and their journalists are probably available for interviews.
Andrew,
“Any man who can think, when considering on the one hand the proposal by Gorbachev of a “Common European Home” from “Vancouver to Vladivostok” that could have been launched with peaceful tri-polar leadership (Anglo-America, Franco-German Europe, and Russia) and worked towards common development of the northern hemisphere in the interests of its peoples, and now considers on the other hand what has actually happened cannot but sit back and cry or be angry.”
Whew. Yes. That is very well-stated, and boy does it hurt. Putin says pretty much the same thing in that speech above, only looking more forward than back.
Also, just as an (irresistable) aside, I’m pretty sure thinking women would agree with you too! :~)
http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_05_25/Voter-turnout-in-Ukraines-presidential-polls-exceeds-38-4661/
Over at Kyivpost, they are bragging about this as “record” turnout, as if 40% of the people voting after 7 hours on a Sunday is something amazing. Enthusiasm is of course very high in Western Banderastan.
It looks like the boycot is on in the southeast. Odessa and Kharkov and showing a noticable lack of enthusiasm, and Donetsk and Lughansk show negliigble voting.
When you watch what is unfolding on the ground in Donbass vs. what happened there two weeks ago, it is amazing that no one comments on the cognotive dissonance of a Ukraine government that claims 70% of the people support it, but which will be lucky to get 15% of them to vote in its elections, while we all just witnessed a supposed referendum that was a farce according to Kiev where 75% of the people came out to vote and showed 90% in total opposition to Kiev.
There was plenty of violence and armed terror two weeks ago, including actual murders and continuous fighting, but somehow a huge referendum was organized and held. Meanwhile, Kiev just can’t seem to pull it off …
The head of the Ukrainian Central Electoral Commission also said that polling stations had opened at 7 out of 22 electoral districts in the Donetsk Region
“In the Donetsk Region, 7 out of 22 electoral districts started to work. But not all of polling stations are opened,” he said.
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/733190
This is worse than Kiev was predicting, by about half. They were previously claiming over half the electoral districts woudl open in Donetsk. Now its 7, and not all are fully functional.
Saker you are often conjecturing what will happen next. How will “fate” intervene counterintuitively in this fiasco, that is the question? “Thing are never what they seem.” There is a human fallibility pride error factor when attempting to intervene with the course of the flood, it will not flow as it is willed by any mortal no matter how much correxit is spilled over it. hopefully it will be just, though currently unknowable?
Musings of one the opponents.
http://www.eurasiareview.com/25052014-ukraine-holds-cards-still-need-play-analysis/
My Godfather’s family is from Sumskaya Oblast. Believe me when I say, they have zero love for Ukraine.
@ Anon 12:52
It’s not just the Guardian. After leaving a few comments on Canada’s National Post site (which uses Disqus) – and believe me, the comments were not even remotely troll-like, simply critical of other commenters’ “opinions” – I had my whole account marked “Spam”. At least that’s how I understand it, because from then on, nothing would appear and all my comments were automatically “spam”. I didn’t know Disqus was even doing that.
So, what it looks like to me is that, at least on some media platforms, any comment perceived as “pro-Russian” (or simply critical of the official “story”) will be marked as “spam” and deleted. The posters will be called “Putinbots,” ridiculed, and their accounts blacklisted. So much for free speech.
NATO/EU plan for Russia is; to isolate, destabilize and wipe off the map.
It is worth reflecting on why the Empire used and uses Nazis in Ukraine, and Al Qaeda type Islamists in Syria. The answer I think is that more “moderate” types do not cut the mustard. Some Ukrainian whose ambition is to be a business student in the West as a preparation for being a neoliberal predator of the future is not going to put his health and safety on the line by attacking a police barricade. A blood and soil Nazi type might. In Syria, someone in Western pay who wants to be part of some collaborator regime running a projected future Syria has to face up to the fact that this dream can be realised only after confronting Bashar Assad’s well-equipped army which has not disintegrated. People in it for the money or future opportunities (ie. typical Western collaborators) are not motivated to take major risks in the here and now, and the “moderates” in Syria have proved to be rather poor fighters, hence the dominance of the armed opposition by Al Qaeda types motivated by Sharia law, the prospect of 72 virgins if they get killed etc.
@Saker or any honest thinkers on here
Is the battalion “Vostok” essentially Chechen mercenaries financed by the RF/ Kadyrov? There are several video on YT of Chechens at block posts in Donbass and slaviansk, and no verifiable/ definitive videos of captured American/ western mercenaries. Strelkov and Bes are Russian military officers not Ukrainian, whereas Battalion Donbass, Pravy Sektor and other militias opposing the separatis are Ukrainian. I’m confused, who is invading who’s country? How is it even credible to pretend America is the invading power in Ukraine when all the leadership on the separatist side are either Citizens of the Russian federation or Its agents? How are the Americans who aren’t even native to that region succeeding in manipulating Ukrainians to bleed for America’s interests while the native separatists need to import Chechen mercenaries. This is the moment when all the competing propaganda smoke screen falls away, when it counts most to stand up and be counted- and it’s becoming only too obvious that Ukrainians are stepping up to fight, bleed and die for the integrity of the Ukrainian state, versus foreign mercenaries and agents acting on behalf of Russia who pretend to represent the interests of the indifferent population of the south east. Novorossiya??Where are the Ukrainian fighters in the separatists ranks? Are there not enough Ukrainians willing to risk life and limb in a population of millions? Or are they simply not believers enough to bleed for the separatist cause?
St. Petersburg/Strelna – Russian President Vladimir Putin on Saturday said Russia’s action in Crimea had been a “proportional” response to Ukrainian action.
“We believe that there was an attempt to speak to us in a language of force, and so we made a proportional response, acting within the bounds of the same logic. But I hope that this will never again be the case under any circumstances anywhere,” Putin said at a meeting in St. Petersburg with the chiefs of global news agencies.
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/putin-says-russian-action-in-crimea-putin-russian-action-in-crimea-proportional-response-to-ukraine-behavior-putin-russian-action-in-crimea-proportional-response-to-ukraine-behavior-349208.html
Well, that explains that then. Some speak a lot and threaten. Others act and do.
If anyone can give a summary of what these guys are saying it would be much appreciated.
In the army grows rebellious mood becquse of horrible living condition
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RamH-3GicpU
The link came from https://www.facebook.com/southfronteng which has some bits of fresh information.
In Odessa, the national assembly have passed “Odessits against elections without choice”
The rally led by Artur Grigorian, who introduced himself a coordinator of resurgent political movement “Kulikovo Pole”.
He urged the citizens of Odessa to boycott the elections and seek a referendum.
and
The Ukrainian media is posting pictures of the referrendum on the 11th of May in Gorlovka, claiming, that they are from today’s presidential elections.
Thanks,
Brian
So the difference at this stage of the conflict, as a MOA commenter noted, is that the West revealed the extent of its media control. Popular perception of the information war expanded exponentially at the time of the Odessa massacre, and I believe that was crucial. So going forward, it’s more clear every day that we have to rely on underground media. Just as the comment boards at the Guardian are manipulated, Reddit has been compromised big time, Youtube and Google are engaging in pro-NATO political censorship, etc. So we have arrived at a state of affairs at which the general population now understands intuitively that in many ways, the situation in the West is not unlike the worst aspects of the late-stage Soviet reality.
@anonymous @ 16:48
You think like the State Department. You can’t use your pliant, completely not-credible corporate news/propaganda services to block out any critical coverage of your puppet regime (go ahead and deny they are blocking out nearly everything,I dare you) and then claim that you don’t see any “credible evidence” for criticism – in the same corporate media. This is just like seizing power by violence, then killing, beating or exiling all of your opposition out of existence, then claiming to have a “democratic election”. I’ve seen dozens of pictures and vids of what I am 99.99999% certain are US Based/supplied/recruited/paid mercenaries. Conversely, I’ve seen or heard nothing except the innuendo and accusations you’ve slipped into this post for any “Russian/RF mercenaries”..whether Chechen or not (with the laughable exception of a completely discredited New York Times fraud-story which even they retracted). Not even that braying jackass John Kerry is attempting to paint the Eastern uprisings as “Russian Intervention” any more..Not even those Ideological gargoyles representing the United States at the UN are attempting to do that anymore….because there is not a SINGLE SHRED of evidence for it, and not even the US, which spies on every square inch of the earth, can produce any..
Both in France and Denmark far right win elections to European Parliament.
God caught us confessed.
I hope left wins in tha south of Europe, if not, I´m thinking to exile me in the International Space Station.
Francis Boyle, professor at the Illinois College of Law, stated:
I’m afraid they could make the situation worse, based on Bosnia’s precedent. I was Bosnia’s lawyer during the war against them by Serbia and when Bosnia held elections, soon thereafter the whole situation degenerated into a civil war and genocide. So, I’m afraid things could get a lot worse from what they are now. These are really Potemkin village elections setup by Obama and NATO to provide nothing more than a fig leaf of legitimacy to the neo-Nazi junta in Kiev. So, I can’t say I’m very optimistic about what is going to happen here.
Read more: http://voiceofrussia.com/2014_05_25/Elections-in-Ukraine-will-make-things-worse-not-better-expert-0152/
Noam Chomsky commented on the ‘democratic’ process in the Western world:
“The goal of elections now is to undermine democracy. They are run by the public relations industry and they’re certainly not trying to create informed voters who’ll make rational choices. They are trying to delude people into making irrational choices. The same techniques that are used to undermine markets are used to undermine democracy. It’s one of the major industries in the country and its basic workings are invisible.”
((´_´))
those interested, go read this:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/23/down-with-western-democracy/
@Solerso
http://youtu.be/0omw-soszSE
http://youtu.be/XsHEs7nWg4g
http://youtu.be/bxFhlgSvjUg
Just typical local citizens of Donetsk pic.twitter.com/EhJuEJN8Ll (https://twitter.com/AndrijUKR/status/470541047840649216)
No need for all that hostility comrade solerso, just trying to ascertain when an invasion of someone else’s country isn’t an invasion, however brotherly and friendly the reasons behind the annexation might be. Anyway those are just a few of the video evidence common place on YT today proving a significant proportion of the actual shooters on the separatist side are foreign to Ukraine and are agents of RF. And I think most people on here accept that Strelkov is a Russian officer as is Bes. If you deny that fact, I’m open to your evidence to the contrary, in addition to your video evidence of all those blackwater American mercs shooting up Ukrainians in Ukraine, as the Chechen “Vostok” battalion did- that is shoot members of Ukrainian “Donbass” battalion, in Ukraine. Kindly correct me.
Poroshenko wins in Ukraine.
Saker and guys,
What are your thinkings about this
( I´m very sorry but I could only find it in Spanish:
http://cort.as/A1oI
Robert you can take religion out of the selection process entirely. The recruits are getting cold hard cash, in amounts that would only attract the most desperate and/or ignorant.
This is a lovely video, which shows the people’s gratitude for the self defense army. The video also shows how well coordinated this army is. They seem professional in their behavior.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZefpTNul1E
Here the results of European elections in Spain:
http://www.publico.es/
http://www.publico.es/522996/debacle-del-bipartidismo
A percentage is a relationship, a relationship to a base.
Don’t specify the base if you want maximum propaganda impact as happens regularly – even to sell shampoo and toothpaste.
No one knows the base or probably ever will.
Anonymous @ 16:48.
FWIW I don’t think the claim that there are or are not Russian forces involved on the anti-Kiev regime really matters except for this: why can the west claim this ad-nauseum and use it to frame the issue entirely… To the point that a government that came to power through violence – the late stages of Maidan were run by a mob of “cop-killers” (to use an American phrase) far as I could see – can so succesfully be anointed legitimate to the point that it’s immediate response to peaceful protests in the east – violence and suppression – doesn’t even appear ironic.
(Sorry, convoluted.)
That implies a mind-blowing level of control of the narrative IMHO. We are incredibly easy to run herd on, especially when the place is obscure to most of us and the rhetoric is on the hot side.
The legal issues of who invaded / undermined who seem a little academic in the face of that. Was the NED acting as a foreign agent for instance? I’d say so having read it’s head describing Ukraine as the “great prize.”
Even better, as Stephen Cohen said: I hope (!) Putin has agents on the ground in Ukraine. If there’s no way to communicate or influence them then the situation would only be that much more dangerous.
Anonymous 16:48, 20:19
You are of course entitled to your opinion. But if you choose to swallow whole anything from Euromaidan PR, the NYT or anyone else purveying canned talking points from Soros’ Ukraine Crisis Media Center, there’s really no point responding to anything you say. Either you haven’t figured out how to evaluate data (cui bono, for starters), you’re deliberately purveying bad data/misinformation, or you’re just trying to provoke an argument. I doubt you’ll convince anyone here, but go ahead and try.
Part 1 in reply to 25 May, 2014 16:48 and subsequent — yes there is no hard core indisputable evidence of American mercenaries in action in Ukraine (if you accept that this video allegedly from Kharkov is a fake) such as an American being verifiably captured with his credentials shown to the world by Donbass rebels.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFBU4GwBa1s
However, Der Spiegel is a well-respected publication and they would not have picked up the Welt am Sonntag report about 400 American Blackwater type mercenaries fighting (there emphasis not mine) the ground in Ukraine in addition to the dozens of CIA and FBI agents in Kiev without confirming it with their BND/German government sources.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK9gMhRZA2U
Recall that the rumors and Russian government allegations about Greystone/Blackwater operating in Ukraine began with the deployment of these oligarch-funded personal bodyguards dressed not in Ukrainian uniforms but Blackwater-type regalia in Donetsk back in April. At the very least these are Ukrainian elite internal troops with NATO country equipment and training:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2576490/Are-Blackwater-active-Ukraine-Videos-spark-talk-U-S-mercenary-outfit-deployed-Donetsk.html
I consider positive identification of Americans or Brits either training Ukrainian troops or actually directing them near the battle front in Southeastern Ukraine only a matter of time.
More in Part 2 including the European (Italian) mercenaries and barely Russian speakers with heavy Baltic or other non-Slavic accents.
American Kulak
Part 2 reply to the guy who said ‘there are 100s of Russians fighting alongside the Donbass resistance and among its commanders, where are the Anglo-American mercenaries fighting for Kiev?’
http://shaltaibaltai.deviantart.com/art/In-Slovyansk-Ukraine-arrested-Danish-mercenary-451799435
The above comes from Anna News Service and in their report they claim to have positively ID’d at least one Danish mercenary who served in Iraq and is apparently a sniper in Ukraine. Note the sniper training in light of the mysterious and apparently foreign origin of some snipers that German TV confirmed shot BOTH Berkut riot police and Maidan fighters in Kiev.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdPNxlyohRs
We also have the above footage of a ‘Ukrainian’ National Guard uniform-wearing soldier speaking fluent Italian to Italian journalists. There is also another clip which is more difficult more to locate on YouTube showing non-Slavic looking Ukrainian National Guardsmen. They are confronted by the angry locals and reply to them in very broken Russian outside of a village.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DIOfm5r8v8
These men appear to be either Europeans, South Africans or Americans of undetermined origin. My best guess would be Balts. Please note during the Donbass Battalion raid on Krasnoyarmsk which resulted in the deaths of two unarmed protesters on May 11, several Donbass members refused to answer questions shouted in Russian or Ukrainian and in English as well, suggesting they did not want to speak with There is also the presidential decree issued by Turchnynov granting immediate Ukrainian citizenship to any Polish or Lithuanian national who serves in the armed forces of Ukraine. I cannot find a source on that report but will soon. If that isn’t a dead giveaway that NATO member citizens are fighting alongside Ukrainian forces, what besides the photograph of a Lithiuanian patch on a Urkainian National Guardsman is? Relevant background here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuanian%E2%80%93Polish%E2%80%93Ukrainian_Brigade
Thus unlike the other commenters I won’t deny that the vids EuroMaidanPR, those mostly lying pack of Banderite hyenas put out, happen to be correct in one case — some of the fighters alongside the majority Ukrainian citizen uprising are in fact Russians, Chechens or South Ossetians. But in light of the overwhelming evidence of foreign involvement in advisory and everything but direct combat roles outlined above, my reply to you sir is so what? Russia has a border with Ukraine, Denmark, Italy and the United States do not.
American Kulak
@Nora
I’ll endure all your accusations without protest, if you’ll but disprove the statements I made. Or this basic question-Are Putin’s/Kadyrov’s mercenaries justified in murdering Ukrainians in their own country or not?
@anonymous @ 20:19
Thanks for your reply @20:19 troll provocateur anonymous .I looked at your “proof”..a couple of grainy very short vids of Caucasian men, a couple of them bearded, in rag tag cammos (like they came from wal mart or something)..I saw the laughable New York times hack work (not linked by anonymous)about “Spetznaz” in the Donbas, which even those lying, arrogant purveryors of state department PR sheets retracted and I thought nothing could be so pathetic until I saw the CNN “report” on this sinister “VOSTOK” brigade. It is an ad hoc “self defense unit” from somewhere in the anti fascist regions in the east. The one guy they talked to said “he had fought in Chechnya”…CNN lyingly reported that he said he was Chechen..(let’s assume it was a lie, it would be too much of a stretch to assume US corporate media made an honest mistake). One guy. One truck. NOTHING ELSE. There remains no evidence, not one shred, that “RF” forces are fighting in the east of Ukraine. You flatter President Putin, troll provocateur anonymous…..your crap seems to rely on that report as if it were verified gospel providing very short very grainy, worse ,completely decontextualized vids of some guys in cammo..they might be “chechen fighters” …they might be Michigan militia..Whoever they are they are not there on the Orders of “RF” authority. Please, no one take my word for it. By all means DO VIEW annonys vids (at 20:19)….They are pathetic.
@anonymous @ 05:07
You can leave, if having to back up your drivel is “unendurable” for you. In fact, until you can provide some proof for your ludicrous claims and accusations , proof that doesn’t come from some You tube entity that calls itself the “Maidan PR office”…then I suggest you do…No really comrades…his videos link to something on youtube called, are you ready for this “the Maidan PR office” ( or Bureau or something else whimsical like that in a NAZI sort of way)