From the reports coming out of the eastern Ukraine it appears that a real, coordinated, attack has been launched on Slaviansk. The attackers use the following tactic: a group of men in plainclothes (Right Sector? Foreign mercenaries? SBU?) attack a checkpoint pinning down the defenders. The checkpoint is then surrounded on both sides by armored personnel carriers and heavily armed infantry. Mi-24 helicopters approach from the air and a heavy joint attack of all forces is launched. Assault-rifles, 23/30mm guns, unguided/guided rockets, anti-tank weapons, mortars, snipers and grenade-launchers are engaged. At this point the defenders have no other option but to try to withdraw under fire and the checkpoint is taken.
This time around the junta means business.
That is not to say that the defenders do not resist. At least one Mi-24 has been reported shot down by machine-gun fire over a river and the junta has confirmed 4 fatalities on its side (compared to 10 fatalities amongst the defenders).
I personally very much doubt that the defenders of Slaviansk had the time, manpower, expertise or equipment to adequately prepare the center of the town for a determined assault. The Chechens in Grozny had plenty of experienced combat engineer/sapper specialists, many months of preparation time and access to basically all the military equipment of a full Soviet army (left for them courtesy of the Eltsin-Grachev team) and that allowed them to turn downtown Grozny into a fortress. In contrast, there are very few well-trained specialists in Slaviansk, they have had almost no time to prepare, and most of their fortifications appear to be hastily improvised.
So far the number of civilians casualties appears to be limited, mainly because the checkpoints were established at the entrance of the city. But if the combats move in, the defenders will have to use the advantage offered by taller buildings for their defense at which point the attackers will have no other choice than to open fire upon large, residential buildings, possibly filled with civilians unable/unwilling to evacuate. Basements are also going to become a place to seek shelter for both armed defenders and civilians. In other words, the amount of civilians killed will very sharply rise of the attackers attempt to take control of downtown Slaviansk.
An increasing number of commentators are pointing to the upcoming May 9th as a crucial symbolic date at which something big could happen. I don’t particularly like the notion of mixing symbols and the planning of military operations, but I have to say that in this case the commentators might be correct, if only because the offensive in the eastern Ukraine will reach some kind of breaking point in the next week or so.
Keep in mind that for all the courage of its defenders, Slaviansk is a rather small town, especially compared to cities like Donetsk or Lugansk which are a much tougher nut to crack not only because of their seize, but also because of the likely number of trained and well-equipped combatants. I cannot imagine that the Ukie commanders seriously think that they could repeat in Donetsk and/or Lugansk the same thing which took them so much time and efforts in Slaviansk. I can therefore only conclude that their real goal is to bait Russia into an intervention (for a discussion of the logic for such a move see here).
In the meantime, the propaganda war is heating up. In a rather clumsy attempt to explain the large amount of pro-Russian comments on various websites Business Insider has accused Putin of creating a Russian version of the notorious Israeli hasbara teams alleging that Putin is paying people to post pro-Russian propaganda in comments (can somebody please point out to the folks in the Kremlin the small “donation” button on the left of this page? So far, not a single Ruble or Hrivna has ever been donated to this blog. Not one). As for the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, it has published a White Paper on Human Rights violations in the Ukraine which you can download from here (in Russian) and from here (in English). However, since the Ministry of Foreign Affairs servers are notoriously slow, I have also made this document available for download here (in Russian) and here (in English).
Lastly, the situation in Odessa is simply surrealistic. Following yesterday’s massacre not a single neo-Nazis has been arrested, not one, but many tens of pro-federation demonstrators have. Some of them have been freed when the prosecutors office was surrounded by an angry mob demanding their release. Now the big “scandal” is not, as you naively might have imagined, that it took a mob to release the victims of the neo-Nazi massacre, no, the “scandal” is that these victims were released at all. See, the authorities have charged them with “mass disturbances resulting in fatalities” and “murder” and they are now forming special “arrest teams” to hunt down and re-arrest all those whom the crowd had freed. Predictably, the official narrative about the events wobbles between the “Russian agents” and “terrorist separatists” explanation. More interesting is the fact that Avakov (the junta warlord in charge of internal security) has fired all the commanders of the Odessa police which, no doubt, will further endear the junta with what is left of the Ukrainian police forces). Needless to say, the neo-Nazi Right Sector organization has not been punished, nevermind banned, and tonight their are holding yet another Nazi-style torchlight parade.
Stay tuned, kind regards,
The Saker
вот так said…
The zionazis at zoogle have marked vz.ru as an “attack site” now.
In Firefox:
Click Tools > Options > Security tab
Make Block reported attack sites and Block reported web forgeries boxes are emprty (unchecked).
All your security software is designed to be used against you during moments like this.
Anonymous said…05 May, 2014 23:28
“Instead of zoogle try this excellent service:”
http://translate.yandex.ru/
Thanks. A little hard to figure out at first due to the language problem (mine), but it works well.
Everybody else, thanks for the responses. It seems that zoogle was playing their little game in some places, and not in others. Once I found all the sites being blocked at the vz site and unblocked them, the zoogle translator worked normally. Having played with the Yandex traslator, I think I like that better, anyway, so bye bye zoogle censorware. :)
BTW http://www.vz.ru/ is the link I’ve been using to The View. Someone asked about that.
Kiev’s military move in the east is a diversionary tactic. The real target is Odessa.
Right Sector working on behalf of the government is trying to terrorize the local population into submission.
If American mercenaries (Greystone) are in the country they’re probably in Odessa and I suspect Spetsnaz are also there.
Daniel Rich,
Thank you for the thought! The chief of our tiny rural fire department has one of those APC thingies — looks pretty hysterical when they’re “fighting” a downed wire… I personally think that’s just the MIC selling off stuff no longer needed for Iraq or Afghanistan, made possible in rural America by Homeland Security grants (yes). And all that ammo I would guess is in preparation for more urban or suburban protests, Occupy v.2.0 or whatever; you’ll note the Feds backed down completely when faced with Bundy’s (now dueling) militias. It’s pretty well known that people in rural areas have guns and are only too willing to use them, while Leftish urban and suburban protesters are not known for the same possessions or proclivities. Plus, it’s far less efficient to go door-to-door, if it ever comes to that, out in the country — are we really worth the effort? I’m much more worried, frankly, about how people will react, not just here but nation-wide, if drought-related food shortages really get severe. During the Depression, communities banded together and helped each other; now, not so much and I can see real chaos and violence coming from that. Also, I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw another government-sponsored false-flag operation somewhere in the US if our Demonize Putin Now project doesn’t seem to be working as well as planned.
Also, I checked out that site you recommended, and was really blown out of the water by how Hitler accomplished his economic, well, miracle. It made such sense, though I also think he got support from various foreign banks (Harriman Brothers, Prescott Bush and the like) and industrialists. And I can certainly see how eliminating banking as a middleman domestically would work so well — and why the whole idea is a threat to all established banking interests. However, while I think the guy’s been over-demonized, I’m not much into reviving his reputation: he was still pretty darned nasty imo. The German people, otoh, have gotten a very raw deal for a very long time, collective-punishment-wise, and that’s just not right.
May 9th symbolizes victory over fascism. If the resistance can be crushed by then, fascism will have won, so the parade should be cancelled.
OK, more seriously, Mark Sleboda posted something along the lines of “Putin said he would back the resistance if massacres or violence against civilians occurred. If he doesn’t, he loses my support.” That is how many of us feel. It would seem to be a betrayal of those who have been resisting; now they are looking at 20 years in the gulag under a very fascist regime. Was it all a bluff to try to get a better deal in negotiations? If so, that is just the usual scummy stuff we see from NATO politicians.
Paul
They’ve understood that people like those shown in this video belong to almost a different species.
No, they are confused and they’ve accepted to glorify and do evil because of what they were taught to believe, but they are people just like us. Your comment is just as bad as what they are saying.
The real disappointement for me as a Catholic was a Greek Catholic priest leading their procession. The Ukrainian Greek Catholics have never understood their role needed to be reunification of the Church, not division of Ukraine and Russia.
True Christianity was rushing to save the life of the helicopter pilot who moments earlier had been flying a gunship over Slavyansk. There has been precious little of that from them.
Its a shame, because if it weren’t for their glorification of Naziism and its Ukrainian helpers and their vilification of Russia, the Svoboda Party would be a reasonable choice for a patriot. Its clear almost every other party in Ukraine has simply been utterly corrupt.
An excellent article on Chris Martenson’s site:
http://www.peakprosperity.com/blog/85369/warning-ukraine-flashpoint
While you are at it you might want to check out his ‘The Crash Course’:
http://www.peakprosperity.com/crashcourse
This course was my introduction to money and economy several years ago. I haven’t come across any better explanation of both anywhere else. Give it an honest try and you’ll understand why we are where we are today.
Я
The View (vz.ru) is now working normally, so I guess they contacted zoogle, or zoogle simply stopped blocking them. Could have been a test of a new way to block sites? Again, many thanks to everybody who responded and offered advice.
And speaking of possible tests…
http://ktla.com/2014/05/05/faa-says-u-2-spy-plane-triggered-airline-service-disruption/#axzz30u0Plzd4
FAA Says U-2 Spy Plane Triggered Airline Service Disruption
Could the Americans have been testing some sort of jamming equipment? I wasn’t aware any of those old aircraft were still air worthy.
Old Ez said…06 May, 2014 00:23
“CNN reporting 1,000s of US troops to hold military drills in Ukraine in July 2014.”
That could be a cover for all sorts of very nasty mischief. I hope their “Ukrainian” quislings have been unseated by then to prevent that.
@Andrew: for me as a Catholic was a Greek Catholic priest leading their procession. The Ukrainian Greek Catholics have never understood their role needed to be reunification of the Church
(…) if it weren’t for their glorification of Naziism and its Ukrainian helpers and their vilification of Russia, the Svoboda Party would be a reasonable choice for a patriot.
Unreal. I first began writing an outraged response to you, but then I realized how futile that would be. Truly there is nothing in common between us, no chance to communicate. Not until the Second Coming.
The Saker
Interesting news about Yandex. The head of Yandex Ukraine cheered the Odessa massacre over the weekend. Yandex disavowed his views, saying they were his alone. Monday:
Глава «Яндекс. Украина» решил покинуть компани (The Head Of “Yandex. Ukraine has decided to leave the company)
http://vz.ru/news/2014/5/5/685317.html
“An hour ago Sergey decide that you no longer can remain public face of the company “Yandex. Ukraine”. Sergey goes on leave for an indefinite time, the duties of the General Director will be executed by another employee “Yandex. Ukraine”, – told RIA “news” the representative of “Yandex”.
Having been publicly disgraced, Petrenko will probably move on to Israel, or the USA, depending on his affiliations, where he will start up a new search service for pro-zionist neo-nazis, with help from Nuland and the zionazi banksters.*
* I joke about the latter bit, but given the state of zionazi-nazistan, that sort of thing should be expected.
“Let’s say that Obama and his neocon advisors wanted to conceal what they’re really up to. Let’s say they felt they needed an excuse to justify NATO expansion, to block further EU-Russian economic integration, and to transform Ukraine into an anarchic, ungovernable failed state controlled by external powers. Let’s say Obama’s goals are not really altruistic after all, that he doesn’t really give a damn about democracy or freedom; that the real motive is the “pivot to Asia”, the dismemberment of the Russian Federation, the seizing of vital resources, and the control of China’s growth. So how does one achieve those goals without hoodwinking the public?
They don’t. “
Mike Whitney is focused on Obama this time and pulls no punches: he out-and-out calls the President a liar and co-conspirator.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/05/obamas-bloodbath-in-odessa/
Dear Saker and friends:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ1ohsissjE
This is a wonderful song by the late Bobby Darin.
Enjoy!
Lindka
@Lindka: BEAUTIFUL!
Thanks so much, I had never heard of Boddy Darin or of this song. I *love* it. Thanks, you fixed my most aggravated mood tonight and thanks to you I will get a good night of sleep :-)
Cheers, thanks, good nite!
The Saker
I have got a very good report (in autotrans) that says the cop who managed police tactics with the red armband Pravy Sektor thugs in Odessa was not sacked, but promoted. I should think the same would go for his men. Saying they were all sacked has to be pure disinfo.
Avigdor Eskin is Dugin’s rep in Israel, along with 2 other Kachists. A bunch of Kachists would not be an asset.
I would suggest Carlos the spanish air traffic controller in Kiev is a waste of time. If Russian planes were crossing Ukraine airspace, Kiev & Washington would have been yelling about it. But I am very excited to think that the Russian air force has flown some air assets into Crimea. I’m thinking paratroops. It had better not just be a display team for May 9!
CNN: “Thousands of US troops in Europe will jojn 7 major military exercises in the coming weeks, in Germany, Georgia,the Black Sea, the Baltics, and in Ukraine, where in July, 11 nations, including the US, will train together.” Better get this over before then.
Dear Saker,
You’re more than welcome. And thank you for your diligent work in keeping us all informed!
Lindka
@Rowan Berkeley said…CNN: “Thousands of US troops in Europe will jojn 7 major military exercises in the coming weeks, in Germany, Georgia,the Black Sea, the Baltics, and in Ukraine, where in July, 11 nations, including the US, will train together.” Better get this over before then.
Haste can lead to ruin.
This “conflict” needs to be frozen. Freezing it puts the EU & US on the hook to pay for the disaster that they caused. Time is on the Russians side.
“An increasing number of commentators are pointing to the upcoming May 9th as a crucial symbolic date”
Well thank you. I am the first and only one that have suggested this as far as i can see, at the beginning of your previous post.
Because it makes perfect sense doesn´t it? US took twice the advantage of the Olympics to attack Russians and Russian interests (Georgia & Ukraine) and how wouldn´t they incl. McCain & Co love to hit Russia (with Nazi´s no less) and make it look weak in the eyes of it´s allies while she is celebrating the Victory Day? It´s so fucking predictable for the United Snakes of America, who didn´t had any problem instigating Beslan & Odessa, to do that and turn up the heat even further no matter what the bloodbath. Russia can´t affort another S.O (grad rocket batteries have been reported) and wont allow it either. If the US imposed Nazi junta dont back down now and they wont, Russia must do what it has to do but in a more sophisticated manner i presume.
Mikhas.
Saker:
I think you misunderstood what I wrote?
I was disappointd as a Catholic watching the 12 minute video linked above to see a Ukrainian Greek Catholic Priest leading a procession of Right Sector Nazis chanting Glory to muderers like Bandera. The Ukrainian Greek Catholics never cease to disappoint me as a Catholic. They should be people who would help unite Orthodox and Catholic again, and they should help unite Roman Catholic Europe and Orthodox Russia and help unite Slavs across the Bug in one faith. Instead they divide the Church and support nationalist murderers. Its not hard to see why Stalin forcibly supressed them. I think I mentioned in another thread how a Greek Catholic priest in Crimea found himself in trouble after the retrocession in March for having decorated his rectory with religious icons AND a picture of Bandera. I just do not understand such people. How can you be a man of Christ and also worship a modern Pontius Pilate?
I am not a European, I am American. Svoboda in its platform is anti abortion, pro family, pro natality like our Republican Party. Why is it parties like this in Europe are always linked to Nazis? You see it in every country. Is there any other Ukrainian party which takes a social conservative position on these issues? It seems there is no mainstream party in any European country against abortion, divorce, sodomy, and for people having more children. How can someone who wants to see a future for their country or people vote for a party that supports widespread abortion? Especially in a country like Ukraine which so desperately needs more children. It is so sad that they continue to kill hundreds of thousands of unborn children a year there. This is why I say I understand why people would support them out of a sense of patriotism they have been taught. That is actually very easy to understand, and we should not call such people sub-human or say they are like animals. They are people like us. It is much harder to understand common people supporting a corrupt group like that around Timoshenko who want nothing more than to rob them blind. Her own allies helped put her in jail, not just Yanukovich, and now she is back pulling the strings of the government.
Last I heard the US military doesn’t use AK-47s
Is Texas Home to a Secret CIA Weapons Facility? Camp Stanley Orders Over Two Million Rounds of AK-47 Ammunition
http://www.globalresearch.ca/is-texas-home-to-a-secret-cia-weapons-facility-camp-stanley-orders-over-two-million-rounds-of-ak-47-ammunition/5380584?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=is-texas-home-to-a-secret-cia-weapons-facility-camp-stanley-orders-over-two-million-rounds-of-ak-47-ammunition
Rough day. Supreme Court refused to hear NDAA challenge. The world’s largest terror operation now can label any US citizen a terrorist, lock em up and throw away the key, without access to lawyer, judge, or even know why. And Ukraine takes a big turn for the worst. Yikes.
(continued)
The entire Ukrainian identity is an artificial construct of the German and Austrian Army High Commands from a hundred years ago. Before that time, there were no Ukrainians, just Rusyns or Russians if you will, a matter of slight pronunciational changes. I have an Encylcopedia Brtiannica from 1913. It does not even mention the word Ukrainian, because such a word and ethnonym did not exist. Many Ukrainians who came to America did not even “discover” they were Ukrainian until the 1930’s when the word spread to Little Russian Church’s here. The Slavs of Galicia were the unfortunate guinea pigs in a successful experiment to see if the East Slavs could be split apart through artificial ideology. What is really wrong with the Right Sector people is that they have forgotten or never been taught that they are also Rusyns and instead taught to hate Russia, which is really a hatred of who they themselves are. You cannot reeducate people by shooting guns at them. It would be a very good question to ask why East Germans were able to be changed from the most virulent Nazis into regular people during the Russian occupation from 1945 to 1989, but Galician Ukrainians were not. Something has gone very wrong, and now there is a Slav Civil War.
If this all makes you upset because I don’t express myself eloquently, I am sorry. That is why I don’t have a blog like you. Please don’t think I am on the opposite side from you, I am not. I do not support Ukraine Nazis.
But what I won’t do is call them animals and say I hope Russia kills them all. What I hope is that they come to recognize their common humanity and culture with their neighbors and repent their bigotry and bloodlust. It is possible if they are shown this is what they really want and they come to desire it. They just need reeducation in who they are. Even if they have forgotten the name, they are Rusyn too, and heirs to the glory of Rus.
@ New Insight,
Thank for sharing the link. Unflippingbelievable.
Rowan Berkeley said…06 May, 2014 03:29
“I have got a very good report (in autotrans) that says the cop who managed police tactics with the red armband Pravy Sektor thugs in Odessa was not sacked, but promoted. I should think the same would go for his men. Saying they were all sacked has to be pure disinfo.”
That info has been discussed by Russian bloggers quite a bit. I posted a lot of this here:
Ukraine SITREP – May 4nd, 22:29 UTC/Zulu http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/05/ukraine-sitrep-may-4nd-2229-utczulu.html
Starting about a third into the comments, I wrote several posts with at least a dozen site links, some which connected that death squad sod to the red armband infiltrators, along with a lot of other information that’s just now starting to make it past the language, and zionazi censorship, barriers.
18+
3 parts of video recording of the events in Odessa on May 2.
Total recording duration is about 4 hours:
http://youtu.be/ZEab0L9BODg
http://youtu.be/Mscbu8QG8Ss
http://youtu.be/rsViVUr1CbY
http://ersieesist.livejournal.com/813.html
About Odesa massacre in english
News articles in the west are slowly changing their tune, as indicated in this article. http://consortiumnews.com/2014/05/04/another-nyt-sort-of-retraction-on-ukraine/
This is a short, to the point piece from AMTV’s Christopher Greene: UKRAINE: USA Will Lose World War 3.
AMTV is Alternative Media TV.
Chris used to work in finance and quit when he saw the lies of Wall Street and Washington.
He has summarised very well the facts about Ukraine straight and his analysis/conclusion about the waning US power accurate.
Chris is calling on all Americans and Europeans to consider what they are doing in Ukraine, why their governments are interfering there and what any US/EU soldiers that may be in Ukraine are fighting for.
Some Americans, like Chris, are fully awake and aware of what their government is doing, and are working hard to enlighten others.
All hope is lost.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po5bAtY6c9M
I suppose many of you have seen the pictures of the (at least 100)victims of the Odessa massacre. I hadn’t until now. I’m a tough old bird but it took all the grit I have to look at page after page of burned bodies, many killed first by assassins already in the building when they were driven in, others–from the blisters and grotesque positions–almost certainly burned alive.
For those who haven’t seen these pictures, you can find them in “Globalresearch” at Globalresearch.ca/globalresearch.com
“American Democracy” comes to Odessa. It’s hard for me to imagine that professional killers, probably Americans, possibly Israelis, were not involved.
Every day that Moscow refuses to act the toll mounts, the inevitable showdown becomes more dangerous.
Tom
An interesting analysis by MoA:
Ukraine: U.S. Campaign Stuck Without Russian Intervention And German Support
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article38404.htm
вот так: It was indeed your links that led me to the excellent story about the red armband teams, and the policeman (named in the story) who managed their rather complicated and deadly deception.
Found this link with video of the odessa massacre
http://scgnews.com/odessa-massacre-evidence-the-mainstream-media-wont-show-you-warning-disturbing-footage
Guy, what is this???
This video suggests to me that the Kiev-freaks want to make a counter-referendum on May11 to merge Dnipropetrovks, Donetsk and Lugansk regions?
Is this true?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCqCuN6E-7o
They’ve understood that people like those shown in this video belong to almost a different species.
===============================
They are possessed, that’s all!
@ Saker
I see that a precedent comment of mine has not made trough moderation. It was about this egregiously stupid law just passed by the Kremlin:
http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_05_05/Russia-introduces-criminal-responsibility-for-whitewashing-nazism-9615/
Don’t know what was wrong about my previous comment and I would like to. If you don’t mind…..
I would also like to get your take about that law, because I consider that kind of stuff seriously ill-conceived. This is mine:
http://houseofmaedhros.wordpress.com/2014/05/06/quoque-tu-vladimir/
Maedhros:
I would also like to get your take about that law, because I consider that kind of stuff seriously ill-conceived.
In general I support freedom of speech, press and thought and political freedom.
Regarding the rehabilitation of Naziism, one must consider that with respect to Russia, the Nazi’s considered Slavs as subhuman garbage to be rooted up, enslaved and killed, and that they did succeed in killing probably 25 million Slavs in Poland and Soviet Union, including the older brother of Vladimir Putin. It would be the height of absurdity to tolerate people who propose as a political program to kill you.
Ita the understatement of the century to believe that given such a past, the toleration of promotion of Nazi ideology or any rebranding of it (from German/Aryan Supremacism to Russian or Slavic or White Supremacism) to make it acceptble to Slavs is appropriate in Russia simply because of the freedom. People knew in 1933 that this ideology was a death cult and we know it today also.
In a pluralistic society, political parties and political leaders which call for the death, expulsion, expropriation, deracination, or enslavement of other populations as a political program cannot be tolerated. This precisely the problem we see today sprung forth in Galicia and Maidan, but that we have seen for 23 years in Estonia, Lativa, and Lithuania towards Russians who are left stateless; in Yugoslavia through a bloody civil war; in a variety of countries around Europe who continue to oppress non-conforming minority groups and deny their right to self-identification and to raise children after themselves.
At one time, the Russian Empire and the Austrian Empire ruled the entirety of Eastern and Central Europe and managed to allow all manner of different people to live together and flourish as themselves in their own cultures with normal freedoms of speaking and teaching their own languages, cultures, and religions. Russia (and Kazakhstan) is now the last outpost of such tolerance in Europe/Central Asia that has not been atomized and cleansed of minority national groups, seen all naguages beyond the national language outlawed, and infested with the poison of Englightenment Nationalism spewed by the French Revolution and its bastard child Naiism. Up until February 22, 2014, Ukraine was another such outpost, and as recently as 1999, Serbia was also still such a place.
123abc:
This video suggests to me that the Kiev-freaks want to make a counter-referendum on May11 to merge Dnipropetrovks, Donetsk and Lugansk regions?
Several villages in Donetsk have declared an intention to break off Donetsk should it leave Ukraine and rejoin Ukraine by becoming part of Dniperopetrovsk. The oligarch billionaire in charge of Dniperopetrovsk has proposed that this referendum take place at the same time. I saw it on the news a couple of days ago, don’t remember where.
Its clear the billionaire Taruta has utterly failed in anything he was supposed to accomplish in Donetsk, so from Kiev perspective, why not?
One must keep in mind the relative percentages here. In 1991 independence referendum, only 35-40% of Crimea and Sevastopol City voters vote for Ukraine, but it was 65% in Donetsk, Kharkov, Lughansk, and Odessa Oblasts. In the rest of Southeast Ukraine, the percentages were 75%, as also Kiev City.
The recent referendum in Crimea 79% voted for Russia (96% of 82% who voted, the rest sitting on hands), so 20% points of electorate changed their minds from 1991. Applying a similar percentage change of mind in the other provinces, suggests that in a free vote, only Donetsk, Kharkov, Lughansk, and Odessa would support to leave Ukraine or join Russia. It might be close in Zaporizhzia (73% voted for Independence), but would lose everywhere else. No surprise, the amount of unrest and locations of unrest follows this vote history.
Just because Dnieperopetrovsk (and Mykolayiv, Zakapattia, and Kherson) vote for Yanukovich and Party of Regions/Communist Party and speak Russian does not make them believe they are Russians or want to be Russians under Putin. Don’t forget Tymoshenko and Yarosh both come from Dnieperopetrovsk. In many of these areas, the Party of Regions only got a bit over 40% of the vote.
In reality, the easy half-half split of the country proposed by Novorossiya idea will never happen. Too many people in the middle between Donetsk and Lviv could go either way, and it should be clear by now Donetsk and Lviv will not live together in peace any time soon since they are now killing each other. Given that Crimea is already gone, Ukraine will be one of the following:
1) Current borders, possibly minus Donbass (current rebellion contained scenario)
2) Current borders, minus Donbass, Kharkov and together Odessa City, Dnister valley, and Budjak (and Transnistria) as an exclave like Kaliningrad (maximum leave for Russia scenario in a free break-up, and also maximum Banderastan)
3) Current borders minus Banderastan (independent west of 1939 border) and Transcarpathia independent, to Slovakia or Hungary (this is the minimum Banderastan scenario, and sees remaining Ukraine stay independent and in CIS, but maybe with EU affiliation)
Its obvious Rump Banderastan west of the 1939 border wants to be a Nazi state. The question is how much of the rest of Ukraine values its identity from the Galician project to stay with them vs. falling back under Russian sway.
@ Andrew
It’s clear that you haven’t really read my take on the matter.
I thank you for reminding me about the official mythology of our world post WWII. My problem is that I beware propaganda, no matter its origin.
So sure, Nazis killed 23 millions of Slavs (during the war), but Russians (Bolsheviks) killed many tens of millions more Slavs (BEFORE the war).
Sure, Nazis persecuted shamelessly the Jews in a horrid attribution of collective guilt, but the World Jewish Congress called for a holy war against Germany already in 1933 and a pious Jew at that same time wrote down the only documented “final solution” in a book called “Germany must perish!”. It’s an interesting book, you should read it.
Today you have that kind of legislation in almost every western Countries, but that do not prevent them from supporting the Nazi scum in Ukraine, isn’t it?
It only serves to persecute common people and historian in the West if they challenge the official narrative, pointing to FACTS and COMMON SENSE.
How Russia today can pretend to fight against the Demonocratic Empire, if she adopts exactly the same tools used by that Empire to justify itself, if she is willing to share the same mythology and enforce that mythology manu militari?
I can stand the devil. The devil is the devil, what else can he do?
I can’t stand the hypocrisy, the evil and the lies posing as the good guys. That makes me vomit!
As an aside, living in Riga I have no news of poor persecuted Russians forced to speak Latvian or hide. Not that there have not been problems and regrettable actions by Latvian governments, but nothing that cannot be resolved using constitutional procedures.
Actually it’s me who have to “fight” against pious women to make them understand that they are in the Church of Christ, not in the Russian church, against people who seems to genuinely think that God speaks Russian, against church news perpetually written ONLY in Russian.
I have seen Russians persecuted in Ukraine or in Georgia, not here.
And behold, those persecutors have the full support of very civilized western Countries, ALL OF WHOM have very civilized legislation against supporting Nazism.
I beg again: give me a break!
I live in a post-mythological world, as everyone should.
@Andrew re: Greek-Catholics,
The Uniates are anti- Russian by definition. The reason of their creation was to split the Orthodox Church and the Russian peoples as well. The Union of Brest 1595-6, followed closely the elevation of the See of Moskow to the rank of Patriarchate, which gave it a greater weight in the whole Orthodox World, weakened by the Islamic rule. The Russian Church was the last bastion of Orthodoxy (this was the real sense of the Third Rome theme). Shortly after the Union, the Polish Commonwealth in cahoots with the Papacy invaded Russia in order to increase the hold of Roman Catholicism over the Eastern Orthodox Russians (Smutnoe Vremya).
The role of the Unia was and is not to “unite” the divided Christendom, but to subordinate the Orthodox to the Catholics, Russians to “Europeans”. The Uniates are permanently worked out into an anti-Russian frenzy and self-righteousness. Unfortunately they are the “useful idiots” who do the wet jobs. One can hardly expect that they would have a change of heart.
Maedhros:
Russians (Bolsheviks) killed many tens of millions more Slavs (BEFORE the war).
Russians =/= Bolsheviks.
I am very anti-Communist, but its hard to find evidence of mass death by even the millions in the Soviet Union outside of the famine year of 1933. You don’t see it in Soviet Union censuses.
A great mythology has been promoted in the west by Trotskyites who became Neoconservatives once in NYC. They inflated their own well justified persecution in the Great Purge into millions of innocent Slavs being murdered for decades. And the Galician Ukrainians, especially the Nazi emigre community of Galizien SS, Nachtigall, and OUN, who claim the 1933 famine as some sort of holocaust of themselves even as they lived securely in Poland at the time, and even as the famine hit Southern Russia just as badly as Eastern Ukraine.
You are welcome to demonstrate the claim of tens of millions of murders in Communist Russia from some sort of statistical source.
I am not interested in persecutions of the Russian Church and its priests, or more about the 1933 famine. We all know that. Tell the where, when and how of tens of millions of murders and show it in the numbers.
And please don’t start in on the Gulag. Everyone sentenced to the wrong side of jail bars thinks they are in a concentration camp and a persecuted innocent. We got Castro’s “gulag” in 1980 in South Florida and boy would we love to give them back!
the only documented “final solution” in a book called “Germany must perish!”. It’s an interesting book, you should read it.
I’ve read it. It was Theodore Kaufman, and written in 1941 in the US, not 1933.
persecute common people and historian in the West if they challenge the official narrative, pointing to FACTS and COMMON SENSE.
The legislation should be about promotion of Naziism as a political ideology by a party. I am for free historical investigation, and if people want to be deniers or revisionists, that is up to them and their own beliefs in their heads.
How Russia today can pretend to fight against the Demonocratic Empire, if she adopts exactly the same tools used by that Empire to justify itself, if she is willing to share the same mythology and enforce that mythology manu militari?
Russia will fight the empire by becoming more Christian, not by allowing Naziism to flourish. At the right time, Russia will be truly converted and then rescue the rest of the world and return it to the true faith.
living in Riga I have no news of poor persecuted Russians forced to speak Latvian or hide.
Its an abomination that the Baltic countries are allowed to leave hundreds of thousands of Russian’s stateless and without citizenship.
Church of Christ, not in the Russian church, against people who seems to genuinely think that God speaks Russian
Again, salvation of the west will come from Russia and the conversion of all her people to lead the rest of us. I have no problem with these innocent Church ladies.
those persecutors have the full support of very civilized western Countries, ALL OF WHOM have very civilized legislation against supporting Nazism.
Yes they support it, and it appalIs we who find ourselves completely voiceless and powerless. I am American and a son of the west. My heritage is Denmark, Switzerland, and England long back. I am appalled by the course of the West over the past 25 years (and since 1968). I feel my world has gone mad and lost all it stood for in pursuit of filthy lucre, sexual hedonism, perversion, and drugs. When we were worrying about the Bomb and Commies we really should have been worry about the Pill. We’ve lost our soul.
@WizOz: thanks for having a patience and calm which I don’t have.
@Andrew: I did understand your post fully. You just did not understand my reply and I simply cannot find it in me to discuss that one more time. I will just point you to these three:
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-geopolitics-of-ukrainian-conflict.html
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/02/ukrainian-nationalism-its-roots-and.html
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/02/follow-up-to-my-post-about-roots-and.html
And I will conclude with this: in its 1000 year long history the Papacy has always had one single goal: to assimilate or eliminate the Church of Christ and the Orthodox people. In the past by genocide, today by the “Ecumenical dialog of love” – but the goal never changed. There is no difference between the Croatian Ustashe and the Ukrainian Banderists. The hatred you saw in Odessa is one which you have *always* shown to us since we refused to submit to your Frankish empire. When you speak of “union” we hear “apostasy” or “genocide”. Thus no dialog between us is possible and there is nothing to discuss. Either you assimilate/murder us all or you don’t. And you won’t since even the Gates of Hades cannot prevail against the Church.
Our only message to you is: Christ is Risen!
The Saker
Saker:
No, I don’t think you understood my post at all. The Union of Brest has been one long fail from its very beginning and its use by Poland in its struggle against Russia from 1600 to 1800 right up to its modern day incarnation blessing Galacian Nazis. You would have thought somewhere along the way these people would have done a little introspection and tried to see where they went wrong, especially as they watched their little world gradually shrink to nothing after it started with all of Belarus and West Ukraine. From where they started, they should have been able to bring the influence of Russia upon the papacy to reform had their enterprise had God behind it, or rather had they conformed their minds to divine things instead of earthly conquest and nationalist self-worship. The papacy has needed nothing but reform since at least Carolingian times, as it has always admitted itself.
You are welcome to call me a fool for thinking we can live together again. That will remain my belief. I am not calling you to apostasy. I want you to convert us, and most especially want you to convert Rome back out of politics and to being the head of the whole Church. That can only happen when the eastern Church learns to “speak” Latin, or better yet, Frankish, as you say – to teach the faith such that the westerner can hear it and believe it. The Russian Church in the past has made a few tentative steps in this direction, but needs to do more. However, nothing can happen until the east decides that it wants to be Apostolic towards the west, and this can only happen when the east steps out of the attitude you yourself expressed in your post. This is why I say when Russia is converted, then it can save the west from itself. And the west has never been more open to the east than it is right now. The harvest is waiting to be brought in because the failure of the western system has brought it to “ultima in mortis hora”.
The Gates of Hades are threatening to prevail the longer you and others like you keep your 10 talents buried in the ground.
I will tell you what gives me hope that I am right. On the south side of the Carpathian Mountains are a peaceful people who call themselves Rusyns. These people believe the true faith but also live in peace with Rome despite endless provocations from the west and despite numerous defections back to Orthodoxy out of frustration with western stupidity. They taught me to sing in Slavonic and about St. Gregory Palamas, who already solved the east-west problem 700 years ago, and about St. Seraphim of Sartov and many others. Most of all they did not try to make me a Rusyn, but accepted who I am and that just as they are Russian Orthodox Catholics, I could be an Western Catholic Orthodox if you understand how I use those terms. They welcomed me in, but most of all they sent me back out to speak truth in my own culture. If you could be as they are from the opposite side, you could convert the world.
Everything needed is already done. It just takes now men of an apostolic mind who want to bring in the harvest. You could be one of them if you wish.
@ Andrew
From 1918 to 1920 the number of priests in Russia went from 360,000 to 40,000. I’m speaking only of priests and only two years here.
For the rest, it’s vain to provide anything because “not even if someone came from the dead they would believe”.
You see, my friend, the problem is that an insuperable chasm divide us; there’s no way you can understand, as the West has everything upside down.
(I guess that even the Jews and all the other people in Nazis’ concentration camp were just on the wrong side of the jail bars, isn’t it?)
You’re right, the West has lost its soul. But it’s not something that has just happened, it all did begin a millennium ago, when the Franks finally conquered the Patriarchate of Rome and all West and made it to break away from the Church, i.e. from Christ, i.e. from God.
And without repentance, there’s no way back. No way!
The union is just that single word away. Repentance.
It would suffice that the Pope would repent, confess his errors and ask for the Church to welcome him and his Patriarchate back in the Communion of Christ.
The Church would cry for joy, a million fat calves would be killed to celebrate the return of the lost sheep.
To anything different the Church cannot answer anything else but what the Apostles did answer to the Sanhedrin: NON POSSUMUS!
Because the Church cannot blaspheme the Holy Spirit, i.e. the Truth.
As the Rome Patriarchate did and does!
It’s the only sin that cannot be forgiven.
P.S. – of course, the stubbornness in the error of the Popes and Vatican hierarchies does not mean that everyone willing in the West cannot ask for and be welcomed back in the Church.
Every single person in the West can do it.
Don’t blame the Church if they don’t. The Church is always there, waiting and eager to lovingly welcome you back.
Do not expect any change from the Church; the Faith was given once and for all. No reforms ever needed!!!
You have to change, not the Church!
@Andrew: Maedhros is 100% right when he writes:
“The union is just that single word away. Repentance.
It would suffice that the Pope would repent, confess his errors and ask for the Church to welcome him and his Patriarchate back in the Communion of Christ. The Church would cry for joy, a million fat calves would be killed to celebrate the return of the lost sheep.“
No amount of “reforms” will reunite the Papacy with the Church of Christ from which it separated itself almost 1000 years ago. Just like the Prodigal Son could not “reform” himself but only say “forgive me Father for I have sinned before the Heavens and before you!”. But that will never happen. Individuals here and there, yes, but the Papacy as such never becomes of its immense 1000-year old pride. Imagine the man who dares to call himself the Vicar of Christ on earth humbly asking for forgiveness and re-admittance from the “Photian schismatics”. Never. Hell will freeze over before that happens. Hence the total genocidal hatred for the Papacy for the Church – it is the same hatred with the Pharisees felt for Christ and the same hatred the Judaics feel for the Church. Even you still speak of “reunificaton” as if one could bring together heresy and Orthodoxy. You admit that the Papacy was wrong since Carolingian times, and yet you hold on to it even though you must be aware that the true Church of Christ never disappeared, not for 1 second, and that it fully preserved “that which the Lord gave, was preached by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers. On this was the Church founded”. The end of this quote by Saint Athanasius, by the way, is “and if anyone departs from this, he neither is nor any longer ought to be called a Christian”. Yes, the Fathers would not even recognize the Papacy as “Christian”, that is easy to prove. Ask yourself a simple question: which of the Papacy or Arius had the biggest dogmatic differences with the Church?
Saint Nicholas, whose very existence the Papacy now denies as a myth, slapped Arius in the face at the First Ecumenical Council. Can you imagine what he would do to a modern Pope (whose infallibility dates from the 19th century only)?!
As I said, there is nothing to discuss, nothing to negotiate, no compromises to be sought. The Papacy will forever use all its worldly powers to deceive, convert or murder us while we wait for the Parousia to stop that persecution.
The Saker
Saker,
“Hence the total genocidal hatred for the Papacy for the Church – it is the same hatred with the Pharisees felt for Christ and the same hatred the Judaics feel for the Church.”
OMIGOSH! Now I get it! I certainly saw the symptoms, I’ve been observing and lamenting them my entire life. And I’ve been learning about its treatment, if you will. But thanks to your one simple sentence (okay, I’m American and therefore rather dense), I just saw the Western disease as a whole: etiology, symptoms, course, and treatment.
THANK YOU!!!
Maedhros:
everyone willing in the West cannot ask for and be welcomed back in the Church. Every single person in the West can do it. Don’t blame the Church if they don’t. The Church is always there, waiting and eager to lovingly welcome you back. Do not expect any change from the Church; the Faith was given once and for all. No reforms ever needed!!! You have to change, not the Church!
How can I be welcomed back into something I never left? Are you saying I am not baptized? When did I personally go into schism against you and yours?
How can I join something which tells me to become a member I must throw off my culture and become Greek or Russian? Can English and Germans and Danes not be saved? I look, but I do not wee a Western Orthodox Catholic Church anywhere. Where is an Orthodox Church using Roman liturgy and Latin or Germanic language. Surely you don’t say St. Gregory’s Mass is invalid, do you?
I do not understand the reticence of eastern Christians to claim the title Catholic. They most certainly did up through the 1800’s, but in this century, just like invention of Ukraine and Ukraine people, and changing Roman people into Greeks has been invented the Orthodox Church which does not call itself Catholic anymore. This is extremely troubling.
These issues are very confusing brother, and troubling. I hope you can see why so few in the west join with you.
The Church needs but one change, to welcome the west. It is not a matter of the Papacy absorbing the East, but of the East absorbing and reforming the Papacy. All of the Papacy’s troubles started when the Romanian Empire abandoned her and left her to be her own power in a West without any political unity or center. She took on a temporal character she should have never had in this vacuum and things have never been the same since, and cannot be the same until the Empire relieves her again of this burden to great to bear.
You well know that the Romanian Empire is no more and that her place at the center of the world has been taken by Moscow and Russia which can never fall. This is the foundation of all geopolitics, and it is why the littoral communities of Latins and Franks have always had an innate “Drang Nach Osten” to find and come to the center of the world.
Russia needs to turn her focus outwards to the west and south instead of inwards to the hyperborean regions of Siberia and Tartary. When Mother Russia looks out she will see a world that needs her moral leadership and source of unity. When she realizes the enormous burden being asked of her, she will understand this can only be carried out through assistance of the Church and her sources of grace. When she converts like Jonah and accepts her mission to the world, she will understand that she can only provide the leadership the world and especially Francia (or the Atlantic Community if you will) needs by offering her treasures in the Latin and German tongues and in line with the disposition and character of those various peoples which are of course as different from the Russians and East Romans as are those of the Chinese or Indians.
This can only be done by absorbing the Papacy under Russian political leadership and using its religious administration to provide the treasures required by the world from the spiritual heritage of Russia.
Hence: Conversion of Russia -> Conversion of Papacy -> Conversion of World
It is the exact opposite of the Atlanticist hubris of Overthrow Papacy -> Invade Russia -> Rule the World
Maedhros:
From 1918 to 1920 the number of priests in Russia went from 360,000 to 40,000. I’m speaking only of priests and only two years here.
As I said, we all know about the dreadful persecution of Mother Church at the start of the revolution. The same thing happened in Spain..
For the rest, it’s vain to provide anything because “not even if someone came from the dead they would believe”.
The years of war from 1914 to 1921 were as sorrowful and bloody as 1941 to 1945.
Outside of war, and the dreadful 1933 famine in Southern Russia and Ukraine, the Soviet Union never suffered from negative population growth of even a small amount. Hence, tens of millions were not killed apart from the wars. You can’t have millions killed out of a population of 200 million and not suffer slow or negative growth, and the numbers would be very clear in the Soviet Population Pyramid of 1990, which clearly shows severe dips around 1918, 1933, and 1943 and nowhere else.
It would also not make sense that if a regime had killed off just 1 million per year or 0.5% of its population per year for 20 years from 1921 to 1941, that during a foreign invasion of say, Nazis, she would be able to find national unity and defeat the invader when 1 of every 10 people had been murdered by the state apparatus under threat by invasion.
I guess that even the Jews and all the other people in Nazis’ concentration camp were just on the wrong side of the jail bars
The point is not that innocent people are not or have not been imprisoned, but that to the unrepentant guilty who always maintain their innocence and say every jail is a new slavery/holocaust/gulag, etc., anything short of letting them loose is the worst persecution of all times. Solzehnitsyn, bless him, went to jail for sedition in wartime. He suffered, but he didn’t go to jail because of capricious arbitrary persecution for the sake of taking pleasure in bloodletting and suffering by others. Humanity was not meant by God to be caged like animals, and does not take well to the experience. It always projects outwardly the worst possible take on why its freedom is being denied – persecution!
Both the Gulag and the Concentration Camps held many criminals as well as innocents. So do American jails. Because someone innocent suffers does not make the criminal a martyr.
“Andrew on 07 May, 2014 23:38 said…
How can I join something which tells me to become a member I must throw off my culture and become Greek or Russian? Can English and Germans and Danes not be saved? I look, but I do not wee a Western Orthodox Catholic Church anywhere. Where is an Orthodox Church using Roman liturgy and Latin or Germanic language. Surely you don’t say St. Gregory’s Mass is invalid, do you?”
Dearest Andrew,
At what point Jesus (as) and his disciples ever had discourse in Roman liturgy, and Latin, German or English language?
Best regards,
Mohamed.
“Nora on 04 May, 2014 17:19 said…
Mohamed,
Thank you — that is just fascinating. Are you familiar with Kamal Salibi? I read his work years ago and a lot of it made a lot of sense. I think I’ll dig around more on this but it probably won’t be for a while as I’ve got a few other books that are requiring a whole lot of thought! I will get to it though; it’s just sooo fascinating. And that feminine noun thing is very interesting — I know there were gods and goddesses in the folk religions before monotheism; perhaps ilah/eloh denote a god that has feminine as well as masculine characteristics — I mean after the idea of one God came into being? Just a wild guess, of course, so probably just. plain. wrong.”
Dearest Nora,
I never heard of Kamal Salibi. Did Google him and he seems fascinating. Have to read more about him.
The language doesn’t have “It”. So everything is either masculine noun or feminine noun. The adjectives and adverbs have to match the nouns for gender for gender.
Home Red = Beth (masculine) Hamar (masculine).
Car Red = Siyara (feminine) Hamra (feminine).
Thus, God cannot be “It”. It is also disrespectful to call God, “It”.
Also, in Islam God doesn’t have a gender, therefore the proper usage for the third person is “He” and not “She”. The same rule applies if the gender is unknown.
A Jewish friend of mine, I once told her when you put short vowels in YHWH, it becomes “O’ He”. Meaning, “O’ He Elohim”. And, that God doesn’t have a name, and if He did, then He will become a commodity belonging to that culture. I reminded her when Moses (as) asked God His Name. God replied, “I am, I am…..”. God didn’t say, “YHWH”.
She replied that “YHWH” contain all constants and Jews are not allowed to insert short vowels when they speak or write God. I replied to her that the whole TaNaKh (OT) was written in constants and did have short vowels, until after the Holy Quran was descended. She freaked out.
There are two Arabic languages. The old, old and Modern (street) Arabic which is still written without short vowels and the Quranic (Classical) Arabic which is taught as linguistic in Universities to all students regardless of their faith. It has full fledged grammar taken from the Holy Quran.
Remember, Quran was descended in 6/7 century. And, from Quranic (Classical) Arabic the short vowels were inserted into the TaNaKh in 12th to 15th century. However, no short vowels were inserted into “YHWH” due to their belief.
You can Google it.
Please see my below response to WizOz too.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
“WizOz on 05 May, 2014 01:29 said…
So the assertion that Jesus was a Judaeus is not Hasbara. Let’s not confuse the matters. And try to understand that the Quranic interpretations of Christian Scriptures are irrelevant. Scriptures.”
Dearest WizOz,
Please see my above comments to Nora.
As I have mentioned earlier that it was my personal translation and had nothing to with Quranic interpretations.
The MSN not only demonize Islam and Muslims, but it also demonizes Prophet Mohammad too. He copied everything from the Bible and he got the stories wrong, claiming 1 Billion Muslims being brainless. And as, most of the scientific advances are not product of Islam.
Don’t forget Moses, Jesus and Mohammad are all Semites and they spoke the same language. In fact, contrary to the common belief Arabic is much older language than Hebrew. There were Arabs throughout Middle East due to Ismael’s 12 Tribes, when Moses was wondering for 40 years. In Hebrew the plural is made by 1 way only, is by adding “im” at the end of a singular noun. In Arabic, the plural is made more than 20 from a singular noun. In English it is about 5 ways. Go Figure!
The language Jesus spoke was Aramaic, a sister language of Arabic. As I have mentioned earlier, Hebrew was dead during Jesus’ time, and revived from Arabic during the 19th century. You will not find original “New Testament” in Aramaic, you will only find the original “New Testament” in translated form in Roman language.
The Holy Quran is very careful mentioning the Banu Israel and Yehud, making the distinction clear as water between them. There is no genealogy of Jesus in the Quran.
However, Quran does mention that Marian (Mary (as)) family is called, “Imran”. The third chapter of the Quran is called, “Family of Imran”, which is the second largest chapter of the Quran. Also, chapter nineteen is called, “Mariam”, again one of the longest chapter in the Quran.
My sister is called, “Batool” meaning “Virgin”. Both my maternal and paternal grand mothers were called, “Marian”. All there of them named after Holy Virgin Mary (as).
I remember once discussing with one of my Jewish friend, and he claiming that there was no “Batoola – Virgin Girl” mentioned in Isaiah in TaNaKh. He said that OT was intentionally mistranslated. He even went as far as claiming that Isaiah was not the last chapter in TaNaKh, and that chapters were rearranged in OT to create the prophesy of Jesus.
The die is cast, when 200 hundred years from now a Muslim will claim that Mary was a Virgin. A Christian will answer him, “Try to understand that the Quranic interpretations of Christian Scriptures are irrelevant Scriptures.”
When I married my wife of 38 years, my father-in-law gave us a Bible KJV as wedding present. To my in-laws it was blasphemy to believe in any other Bible beside KJV. Today, they believe in NIV. Day and night difference in both versions. Each printing has different versions.
Like, I said earlier that there is a concentrated effort to erase Jesus from history. This is one of the reasons, Syria was attacked so viciously. The disciples of Prince of Peace Jesus (as), who speak Aramaic live there before the advent of Islam. Today, there is a concentrated effort to erase them.
BTW, if Emanuel means, “God with us”. Then Israel means, “Ever Lasting God” and Ishmael means, “Hearing God” and so forth.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
Dearest WizOz and Nora,
The divinity of Prince of Peace Jesus (as) was removed from NIV when it first was suggested by the committee. I remember the uproar then in comparison to KJV. Eventually, the divinity of Jesus was relegated into footnotes in NIV.
The way from day one the Holy Quran is preserved till today, is from memorization and not from written. Today, as in the past the full Quran is memorized my millions of Muslims world wide. Every years, in the month of Ramadan, throughout the world the competitions are held for the best memorizes.
Subtle changes can be made to Quran from printing to printing. However, this memorization serves as checks and balances from subtle changes in printing. I Remember, Saudi Arabia once claiming that they should be the only country allowed to print Quran. The Muslims were in uproar. One has to be very careful from printing to printing.
200 years from now, when all three of us will be dead, the “Virginity” will be removed from OT as the claims are already being made as I mentioned earlier. Then, there will be a concentrated effort on Holy Virgin Mary’s (as) character.
The die is cast. When 200 years from now a Muslim will claim from Holy Quran about Mary being Virgin. A Christian might response, “Try to understand that the Quranic interpretations of Christian Scriptures are irrelevant. Scriptures.”
I remember, “Misquoting Jesus” written by Bart D. Ehrman, when a Muslim asked him about Jesus and his disciples speaking Aramaic and not Greek/Roman. He was asked, did he considered this translation effects into his research? Bart D. Ehrman acted like the Muslim didn’t know anything and just ignored him.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
@ Andrew
How can I be welcomed back into something I never left? Are you saying I am not baptized? When did I personally go into schism against you and yours?
How can I join something which tells me to become a member I must throw off my culture and become Greek or Russian?
============================
If you are in communion with the Pope, you are NOT in the Communion of Christ. It’s that simple.
You did not do it, he did, a thousand year ago, and you are in communion with him.
I am Italian, or better Neapolitan (a people destroyed 150 years ago by the Savoy masonic invasion of the Kingdom of Naples and Sicily); do you think I did throw off my identity and culture and become Russian when I asked for the Church to take me back?
What I was I am! Only in communion with Christ now, not with a ludicrous “vicar” (as if Christ was dead, think of it).
Of course, a change is required. That change is exactly REPENTANCE, metanoia in Greek and means just that: to change.
Pride is the name of the main obstacle to that change.
You can find Orthodox churches in every western Country, not so numerous as here in Latvia, but you can find them if you want to, in England, in Italy, in France, in Germany, in the US, Australia, everywhere.
You shall not have a parish next door, but there are, and most of them serve the Divine Liturgy in local languages too (not in Latin, of course, why should they?).
As for me, I prefer by a long shot the Liturgy in Slavonic more than any other language, Italian included, even if I don’t understand a word of Russian.
I don’t understand a word of what they say during the Liturgy, yet I understand everything. I know the Liturgy, that’s enough.
There are a lot of jurisdictions, but I’d advice the ROCOR, the Russian Church Abroad, because of the universality it represents. It’s by far the most numerous and harbors almost one hundred nationalities (of course, the most numerous is the Russian).
But that’s pretty much up to you or, maybe more, to the geographical circumstances (namely, the most near parish). In any case, once in communion with one you are in communion with all of them (at least the canonically legitimate ones).
Just, avoid Constantinople like the plague. They have completed the journey from Constantinople to Istanbul, well directed by Langley, Virginia.
The most revered Patriarchate is a disgrace today, after a century of infamies to the Church of Christ.
God will judge them!
Finally, to dispel any doubt about the terms of the struggle, please welcome a rabid demonocratic in his own words:
http://agora-dialogue.com/rex-carl-bildt-thinks-eastern-orthodoxy-is-main-threat-to-western-civilisation/
And yes, Carl, you are right!
Until we stand, you will not enthrone the Beast.
Bet the ranch on that!
Hi Maedhros,
Were did the Christians got the concept the satan being a Devil?
It is not in the TaNaKh (OT). If it is can you please give me the quote?
And, that Elohim is in constant war with Lucifer?
In fact, Lucifer is not a Hebrew name. It is a Greek/Roman name. No Lucifer is mentioned in TaNaKh (OT). If it is, please quote it to me?
It both Hebrew and Arabic, satan means, “adversary”. Satan being the adversary of humans in both Judaism and Islam.
In Judaism, satan is an angel who is in good standing with Elohim, and whose work is to temp humans. He does this with the explicit command of Elohim. Judaism has concept called, yetzer (ha)ra and yetzer tav, which has to do with the story of Jacob, when Elohim changed his name to Israel.
In Islam, Iblis who was not an angel was the enemy of Adam and Eve. In Islam, it is our “Free Will” which is the satan (adversary) within oneself, like yetzer hara and yetzer tav in Judaism. The only power given to satan is the “power of whisper”.
One cannot underestimate this power, it is within individual self, telling one to do bad/evil. The adversary within oneself constantly whispering to do bad/evil.
Or it can be groups, such as in the case of German War Machine, The MSN, The Hasbara, or as George Orwell nicely explained in his book called, “1984”.
Peace,
Mohamed.
“I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.”
This is the Word of God.
And it’s the indisputable teaching of the Church that Satan is THE devil.
It’s part of the fundamental differences we have, my friend.
Please understand that OT has only a residual importance for us Christians. Apart from the Prophets and the Psalms, we have no business with most of it. And when we have, it’s only through Christ’s words and teachings as Litmus Test and the Church’s Fathers interpretation as guidance.
Even the Law is accomplished and overcome by Christ.
We are the sons of the New Covenant.
“In Islam, it is our “Free Will” which is the satan (adversary) within oneself, like yetzer hara and yetzer tav in Judaism. The only power given to satan is the “power of whisper”.”
We are not so far here, but only in the sense that our free will can choose the evil. But evil is not within ourselves, there’s no evil inside any of God’s Creation.
“He saw that it was good.”
In us there is the power to choose, anyway, because we were made in His likeness; so we are free, as He is absolutely free.
Therefore we can choose to follow “Satan’s whispers” and do evil.
Evil is just separation from God, it has no autonomous ontological subsistence.
Satan can only whisper because the only power has over the Creation is only that what we, the only creatures who unite the material with the spiritual, give him.
(apart from a few cases when God concede him that power, according to His inscrutable plan)
“Maedhros on 09 May, 2014 17:46 said…
Satan can only whisper because the only power has over the Creation is only that what we, the only creatures who unite the material with the spiritual, give him.
(apart from a few cases when God concede him that power, according to His inscrutable plan)
Dearest Maedhros,
I fully agree! :)
“Maedhros on 09 May, 2014 17:46 said…
Evil is just separation from God, it has no autonomous ontological subsistence.
The creation is never separate from God, not even in hell. God is in hell, as hell is God’s domain too. There is no such thing as Lucifer’s domain. Everything belongs to God and to Whom is our return.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
That separation is a state of the Creation, not a physical something outside the Creation, and it leads to Its destruction, because no thing created can subsist by itself, separate from God.
“Maedhros on 10 May, 2014 18:07 said…
That separation is a state of the Creation, not a physical something outside the Creation, and it leads to Its destruction, because no thing created can subsist by itself, separate from God.”
Dearest Maedhros,
Yes, very true! :)
Nothing can subsist by itself, even stones, mortar and bricks. God is the ONLY RABBI.
He is the Only Nurturer, Nourisher, Cherisher, Sustainer and so forth.
lol. I am happy to say we speak the same language. The religion is same. We approach it differently.
Amen Rabbi,
Mohamed.