First, here is the latest map of the combat situation: (for high res click here)
Second, Colonel Cassad is confirming that the Russians are finishing the pipeline which will bring Russian gas to some areas of Novorussia over the course of the upcoming winter.
Third, Cassad also confirms that while the voentorg (Russian covert military aid) is currently closed, the Novorussians command have received ironclad guarantees that in case of Ukie attack the voentorg would be fully reopened. This agreement between Russia and Novorussia was finalized yesterday.
Lastly, as you have probably read elsewhere, the Novorussians and the Ukies, which have been negotiating under the watchful eyes of officially invited Russian General Staff officers, have agreed to a demarcation line although Kiev has immediately denied that. What Kiev says really does not matter at all – they always spew nonsense – but it appears that the deal was made or is very close to being finalized.
Conclusion: all the panic about Russia “selling out” Novorussia now turns out to be utter nonsense.
The Saker
PS – important correction:
In my last SITREP I wrote:
The infighting of Novorussian political leaders and field commanders continues. At best, some of them simply ignore everybody else (Khodakovski or Cossack leaders) at worst, they openly fight each other (Bezler and Zakharchenko). In fact, Zakharchenko apparently resigned, then this resignation was pulled back.
This is incorrect. An anonymous reader correctly corrected (is this English?) me and wrote:
Saker, I am sorry but you appear to be misinformed: Bezler and Zakharchenko don’t openly fight each other, or in fact anybody else. Whatever Bezler is doing, it’s behind the scenes, and there is no reason to believe he is involved in the struggle to undermine Zakharchenko. The only field commander doing it seems to be Mozgovoi, with the full support and even encouragement from Strelkov.Strelkov and Mozgovoi are doing their best to undermine Zakharchenko, nobody else does. Strelkov seems to have fallen out with all the other senior Novorossian commanders, except for Mozgovoi.
Hi Saker
Do you have any comments on this interview, summary first from http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?236054-Ukraine-discussion-thread-Or-the-original-Butthurt-thread/page6807
The blogger and friend of Strelkov talks about what is really happening in Donbass and Novorussia.
Some short summary most important things. The brigade from Slavyansk that was under Strelkov amount to around 4-5 thousand soldiers, and basically all the heavy equipment has been taken from them, only basically left with only ak’s etc. All the equipment goes through Oplot brigade and Zaharcenko, Kononov is bascailly irrelevant.
The operation of liberating the airport is basically for no reason because some of the most eperienced fighters have died for nothing.
Zaharcenko basically holds all the cigarette and alchohol smuggling and trading in Donbass, everything goes through him and he gives nothing to regular rebel soldiers that forces some of them to become criminals to feed their families and themself.
The so called humanitirian aid goes basically to Plotnitskij and Zaharcenko personally nothing goes to private people or organizations. What is currently happening is basically discrediting the whole “Russian idea”(Russkie mir), that nobody in the future comes up with the idea about peoples republics and that they under no circumstances ar anti-oligarch.
After Strelkov resigned some of his men were arrested under false accusations and facricated crimes, some of them even called “Vlasov-tsi”, supporters of Vlasov.
Basically that the dark picture and truth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9q5FNY7E8U
JohninMK
Does anyone have any idea how the UA soldiers in the encircled areas are surviving?
JohninMK
Dear Saker
concerning the “Russian anti-oligarchical idea” eventually you do have to consider this interview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDG8vUDRFm0#t=2096
Nobody seems to grasp what’s behind this struggle of ideas between Strelkov’s circle and the current leading politicians in the young republics or rather the fifth column in Moscow.
The interview details the notably more promising one.
“Unite and Serve” instead of “Divide and Conquer”
The fact that it still didn’t resonate even in pro-Russian communities, none that I know of, anyway, makes it all the more trustworthy.
SK
Dear Saker,
I was down with flu last week which is why I have not commented on your excellent recent posts. Just a few quick observations:
1. There is no realistic possibility of Kiev resuming the offensive for all the brave talk that has been coming out of Kiev. Not only was Kiev comprehensively defeated over July and August on a scale that is still not properly understood but the economic situation does not allow it and Poroshenko knows that any renewed offensive would result in a strong Russian response. The stream of reports that issued out of Kiev during the fighting from the likes of Geletei, Lysenko and Avakov turned out to be almost entirely false. Given that this is so I don’t understand why anyone today is taking their latest claims seriously.
2. To understand what I mean consider what happened in the only important battle actually fought since the declaration of the ceasefire. This was the battle for Donetsk airport, which gone in the Novorossians favour. The junta was not even able to send its aircraft to launch airstrikes to support its troops there as it did in May – a clear sign that it has control of the airspace over the eastern Ukraine.
3. By contrast there clearly is a real risk of some Novorossian commanders launching an unauthorised offensive and I have no doubt it was in order to prevent this that the Voentorg was suspended.
4. I am afraid that Strelkov is doing himself no favours by this campaign he through his supporters is waging against Zakharchenko. I retain great respect for Strelkov’s military leadership and Novorossia owes him a lasting debt for what he did over the course of April to July but his political judgement is poor and his recent actions are misguided and unhelpful to say the least.
some nato-official at a meeting of the atlantic-council:
“The ceasefire is not holding in some areas and there could be a serious deterioration in the coming days.”
which means that they plan to attack.
Yes Novorossia is not “sold out”.
It is just NAF soldier are not allowed to liberate their own land by Russia(which is engaged in behind the scene trading with USA).Open map and see for yourself how much territory is under ukr occupation-pretty much half of DNR/LNR.
All the rumours started after Minsk 2.0. what is exactly in it-came true.Mariupol,Slavyanks,Krematorsk-for Ukraine,Peski and Avdeevki-for DNR.
Completely unneeded airpor fighting is still going on.Despite being supposedly taken every single day people keep dieing in Donetsk from artilerry strikes coming from Peski/Avdeevka and beyond.Guess who is fighting and dieing at airport?Units of commanaders who are firmly againts Minsk agreement.Nice ächievement”for traitor Zakarchenko-dealing with concurents and scoring points for election(look at me i`ve ordered airport attack to reduce shelling).Another of his ächievements”-openly attacking Strelkov in recent interview.He was NOT allowed to resign despite wanting to.Russia(or whoever in Russia is in charge of this betrayal of russian people.BTW 7 millions in DNR/LNR and another 7-8 mln in rest of Ukraine,but obviously they do not matter for people in Moskow) cannot find another person willing to sell out his own land and people,so Z. was forced to stay.His fate is already clear-in all videos NAF soldiers and commanders are saying same thing-fight till our land is liberated,already can hear even saying-our friends did not die for this “ceasefire.Bezler,Mozgovoi,Dremov,Kozicin commanding alltogether several thousand soldiers,various field commanders are firmly againts “ceasefire”promoted by Z.
Btw recent photos showing Mozgovoi wearing cossak uniform-speaks enough what is going on between various NAF commanders who are againts Minsk agreement.Z. is doing dirty job for Akhmetov&Co from one side and those in Russia wanting to restore previous status-quo of trade and profits from other side.Under his command a classical take over of all the power is going on in DNR.At the end sooner or later he will receive his reward-too many already died,too many lost various relatives,too many still living under occupation and NAF unlike Z. will not stop,will not betray thier own people inlike Z. and continue fight despite massive pressure and dirty games.
Venerdì prossimo Putin e Porosenko saranno a meno di 100 km da dove abito io, a Milano per tentare di porre fine a questa assurda guerra, per altro già persa sul campo di battaglia dall’Ucraina. Meglio trattare ora e farla finita, prima di peggiorare ulteriormente la situazione, per tutti. Anche per chi come noi Italiani, per ora sta solo a guardare.
p.s. Stasera Beppe Grillo proclamerà la richiesta del M5* per l’uscita dall’Euro dell’Italia, da ottenersi con un referendum. Usciti noi,è sicuro, l’Euro crollerà su stesso e anche la UE, con buona pace degli imbecilli Ucraini guidati da Poroshemo, che “sognavano” l’Europa..
Dear Saker,
Can you please comment on the latest on the formerly secret TTIP which is now causing widespread anger since some of its details was made public. Seems all is not going well for Amerikan plans to colonize Europe using the economic version of NATO
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29572475
—Naijaa_Boy_of_Africa
Interesting Special Report from Reuters, on Maiden,
Not what one would expect.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0HZ0UH20141010?irpc=932
This “Cult of Strelkov” is getting on my nerves. So what if he is an icon, he is absent and his supporting NAF officiers need to put a sock in it or resign. Unity of command is paramount in any conflict. Zakarachenko is doing the right thing by weeding out his influence.
Paris this PM:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10204696699357713&set=pcb.10204696700997754&type=1&theater
Anyone noticed, that RT website repealed their “Ukraine Timeline”?
Afaik two RT stringers also went to Turkey.
According to Strelkov’s spokeman, El Murid, Zakarchenko sent Motorola and Givi’s battalions, the very best of NAF, to be massacred for nothing. Bombings from Peske and other town continue. Both fighters and civilians continue to die, with no allowance for self-defence, all armour equipment removed from the battalions and kept by Zakharchenko. If this is not a sellout, then what is it.?
According to Strelkov’s spokeman, El Murid, Zakarchenko sent Motorola and Givi’s battalions, the very best of NAF, to be massacred for nothing. Bombings from Peske and other town continue. Both fighters and civilians continue to die, with no allowance for self-defence, all armour equipment removed from the battalions and kept by Zakharchenko. If this is not a sellout, then what is it.?
According to Strelkov’s spokeman, El Murid, Zakarchenko sent Motorola and Givi’s battalions, the very best of NAF, to be massacred for nothing. Bombings from Peske and other town continue. Both fighters and civilians continue to die, with no allowance for self-defence, all armour equipment removed from the battalions and kept by Zakharchenko. If this is not a sellout, then what is it.?
Strelkov is a loose canon – a real nut job. If he were any good as a military commander he would be in the Russian army instead of running re-enactments and playing at war. He just talks good – he is all mouth and should be ignored.
I really don’t understand why so many people think he some reincarnated Marshall Zhukov.
You can’t liberate the airport with your current equipment. You have to clear the tunnels underground. There are only 3 ways to clear them.
1. Flood them with gas or water.
2. Heavy Bombers with bunker buster bombs.
3 Heavy artillery with ammunition especially designed to break up hardened concrete bunkers ( in the US we call them Bunker Busters)
You currently lack the equipment to do anything but wasting amunintion and lives
Eastern women look and act so feminine compared to western ones…
Saker,
Can you comment on this report by El Murid?
http://vk.com/strelkov_info?w=wall-57424472_22846%2F5b9b21adee3a56d899
Summaries of the militia of New Russia
today at 7:05 am
11.10.14 Interview with blogger El Murid (Anatoly Nesmiyan).
“In Donetsk Zaharchenko arrested people Strelkova. Surnames Igor is not yet known. Now in the cellars of Donetsk are people Strelkova. Zaharchenko knocks of them” evidence “on the shooting. Preparing large-scale” drain “I. Brain People, too, were” stolen “and taken in an unknown direction. Among them also knock readings on the Brain.
Slavic brigade disarmed – Zaharchenko took their all heavy weapons, and now it sends them to the airport. Zaharchenko all kept on a starvation diet, even a “Hold” to militia mined everything you need for yourself, and thus discredited himself and the idea of New Russia. Although Zaharchenko has the resources and finances. The Kremlin and the Ukrainians Donetsk (Donetsk elite represented by Akhmetov and Yanukovich, etc..) Doing their best to stamp out the idea of New Russia and the “Russian world”.
Strelkova rapidly cornered or in politics. In the policy in order to make him “General Lebed.” II to stain and finish completely.
Igor Gunmen make a statement the other day. He always puts his speech, t. To. Situation changes hourly.
Shooters to come out of the “trap” is to do something unexpected for everyone. Such as its output from the Slavic, which maps all confused. Slavic team now has about 5 thousand. Pers. But it weakened, taking heavy weapons. All “goods” PX now go only carpentry and Zaharchenko. Brigades ordered to hand over heavy weapons in the “common pot.” Kononov – Minister of Defense – has only small arms. All heavy weapons concentrated in his hands Zaharchenko. Minister of Defence has to go behind the tank for Motorolla to Zaharchenko. Tank, having worked again returns to Zaharchenko. Such a war.
“Demarcation line” – this is not the last document that must sign Zaharchenko. Apparently, looking at the whole package, and he resigned. But she was not accepted, vynudildi stay, so he did the dirty work. In Donetsk, there was no man is able to sign these papers treacherous. According to the “truce” – Ukraine insists on joint patrolling of the border with Russia. Most likely, it forced Zaharchenko “resign”, t. To. – And what actually died?
There is a full-scale hard work to demonize Russian. See, what the republic they “built”: some bandyuki looters.
On the upside, considered what damage does the struggle for the Russian world through their cozy world, and decided – Russian World harmful. Overreacted to the Russian world.
Brain beginning to unite around the militias, disgruntled Minsk sink and mess things happening. “
Anon;
“Anonymous Anonymous said…
Eastern women look and act so feminine compared to western ones…
Excuse me, but is that a “racist” comment ?
And actually, I was thinking of that darling girl, after I watched the video, and I truly wonder if she could really kill someone…really….
A bit of good news on a Sunday morning. Thanks Saker.
~ Susan
Just a flip inside Russia’s Government, can result on rolling back the Red Army toward Ukraine, straight to the Dnepr River. Belarus has declared to join forces. And China may support them. They can make new “Elections”, declaring the East area (Ukraine), and start “Punitive” actions against Kiev.
They may reach Poland border, and they may ask, to trade West Ukraine to Poland, with condition Poland to give back East Prussia to Germany, and they may trade in the Kaliningrad Enclave to Germany for the rest of the Ukraine. This Political Storm, could turn upside down the United Europe, and what we need is another flip in the West, and Humanity will be vanished, and only a couple of thousands, the privileged one, my start over again from the scratch.
It only takes to watch the youtube reports, to read Itar tass, Colonel Cassad, El Murid, etc to observe that the Ceasefire is a wholesale of the best units of NAF, a weakening of NAF and the promotion of billionaire to come back and rule NR through Zak and other stooges. Shame for all those who allowed this, and it may well include Putin, no excuses here.
Poro as usual does not lie, what he signs he admits that is of no value.
the whole situation is disgusting.
Anonymous Alexander Mercouris said….
“I am afraid that Strelkov is doing himself no favours by this campaign he through his supporters is waging against Zakharchenko. I retain great respect for Strelkov’s military leadership and Novorossia owes him a lasting debt for what he did over the course of April to July but his political judgement is poor and his recent actions are misguided and unhelpful to say the least”
Contrary to your opinion above & Sakers ” anonymous reader correction” that :
“Strelkov seems to have fallen out with all the other senior Novorossian commanders”
that my friend is not the case at all.
It is no secret that the Minsk agreement is NOT popular amongst the majority of NAF Commanders & the “Frontovniks”
The real fear of launching “unauthorized offensives” by some NAF Commanders & the complete closing of the Voentorg says it all.
It also completely destroys the theory pushed by “anonymous reader”.
There has & continues to be a lot of behind the scenes infighting going on in the NAF & DPR.
One need not be neither a Marxian nor a Marxist in concluding in studying the info available in the web, that the plan is to restore the oligarchs Akhmetov and Taruta, in NR, and to create dissent among the battalions of NAF, while promoting the notion of keeping Ukr as a fictitious unit with Poro as the evident face. At the same time, inside Russia, there is a developing superposition plan of on the one hand enhancing the power of some of the oligarchs such as those punished by the AZs and even paying for their frozen assets with the state budget, while simultaneously attempting to obtain from China investment for the different much needed projects such as high tech electronics, machinery, and agricultural independence, while also declaring that the armament industry is to be privatized together with other public assets. paradoxical play all the way through, with strong reactionary elements which is impossible to fathom whether they are tactical or strategical though they may also become so. As for the participation of the Russian people, very much appears reduced to spectators,but for the voentorg which is now closed. Impossible to make anything clear of this conundrum, but the preparation underway for WW4. As how the Eurasianists indeed to act with regards to all this, a top-down policy as presently activated is tantamount to isolation of Putin if not from the support of the freshly refed oligarchs. Seems that everything is left to time to have its say, while the timing factor is crucial but NOT the whole decisive agent. How the resources and recourses of the state, and particularly its bureaucracy is no less crucial. Dugin is no fool in urging to assert the whole process of transformation of Russia as something radically grass-roots activity.
One need not be neither a Marxian nor a Marxist in concluding in studying the info available in the web, that the plan is to restore the oligarchs Akhmetov and Taruta, in NR, and to create dissent among the battalions of NAF, while promoting the notion of keeping Ukr as a fictitious unit with Poro as the evident face. At the same time, inside Russia, there is a developing superposition plan of on the one hand enhancing the power of some of the oligarchs such as those punished by the AZs and even paying for their frozen assets with the state budget, while simultaneously attempting to obtain from China investment for the different much needed projects such as high tech electronics, machinery, and agricultural independence, while also declaring that the armament industry is to be privatized together with other public assets. paradoxical play all the way through, with strong reactionary elements which is impossible to fathom whether they are tactical or strategical though they may also become so. As for the participation of the Russian people, very much appears reduced to spectators,but for the voentorg which is now closed. Impossible to make anything clear of this conundrum, but the preparation underway for WW4. As how the Eurasianists indeed to act with regards to all this, a top-down policy as presently activated is tantamount to isolation of Putin if not from the support of the freshly refed oligarchs. Seems that everything is left to time to have its say, while the timing factor is crucial but NOT the whole decisive agent. How the resources and recourses of the state, and particularly its bureaucracy is no less crucial. Dugin is no fool in urging to assert the whole process of transformation of Russia as something radically grass-roots activity.
Interesting comments by many in this thread. We are asked to comment on an obscure posting on what is in essence a generally biased and nonsensical sight involving a ‘butt hurt’ thread. Who cares? We are asked to comment on how the orks are surviving in the various cauldrons big and small. What cauldrons? If you care that much why don’t you go ask them. You will find most of them 2 meters under. Commenting on anything by BBC is a joke. Ditto Reuters. Why don’t you toss in Channel 5 in Kiev to complete the foolishness?
Anonymous 17:43: “According to Strelkov’s spokeman, El Murid, Zakarchenko sent Motorola and Givi’s battalions, the very best of NAF, to be massacred for nothing. Bombings from Peske and other town continue. Both fighters and civilians continue to die, with no allowance for self-defence, all armour equipment removed from the battalions and kept by Zakharchenko. If this is not a sellout, then what is it.?”
What massacre? What removal? What sellout? What the…..? Let me know when you speak to the good Polkovnik personally, then I might listen to you.
Janice Karzaki I presume you are an expert military analyst and are on sight at Donetsk Aerodrome. If not your comments make little sense. There is more than one way to skin a cat. Do let those with experience in cat skinning do what they have to do. In the end the orks will be tango uniform and the problem is solved.
There is zero chance of an ‘unauthorized’ assault by Opolchensya unit commanders. There is a chance of another ork attack just going by their positions all around Novorossiya but in my and other better informed than I opinions they do not have the strength to attack after the crushing defeats of August-September. If I/we are wrong and the orks have suddenly gotten some military savvy and courage and do attack the military surplus store doors will swing open with a bang and it is a distinct possibility that Mother will pull a Gruzya on the orks, in other words disarm them, spank them and send them home, to wit, out of Novorossiya. Then Mother will withdraw as she did in Gruzya.
Novorossiya will not fall and Novorossiya will not be ruled again by the oligarchs and their minions. These two statements are a given. Period.
can someone translate this?
presumably it exposes the cogweb
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umeztnxUuDE#t=388
thanks
as for the deeds of the 5th column on behalf of poro and ukr
http://z5h64q92x9.net/tr-url/ru-en.en/moskprf.ru/index.php/stati-menyu/10444-grekh-grefa-sberbank-rossii-pomogaet-ukrainskomu-voenno-promyshlennomu-kompleksu
Janise,
You forgot about one other weapon for clearing out the “orks” out of their tunnels: the flamethrower.
I’m positive Givi, Motorola, Mozgovoi et al have the will and ability to use such a weapon against the fascists. I’m poistive “Mother” can provide if/when asked.
The boys are going to be just fine. It’s the other side and their backers who need to worry.
RRH
This reminds me of the Russian tanks crossing the border clad in Harry Potter’s Cloak of Invisibility.
If the combatants were not getting paid, I’m sure it would be coming at us from more reliable sources. Same for a roaring black market in aid. Zakharchenko has done wonders getting pulverized Donetsk in shape to make it through the winter, and I don’t care where he got the money. You go, lad!
Strelkov’s futile trip to Moscow has, in my mind, discredited his self-reports of friends in high places and secret missions. He’s a camp follower. He was ditched because of the testimony of his own men.
I foresee him ending his days leading a ragtag band in a far corner of some obscure Balkan province dressed as Catherine the Great.
Cass
Cassandra Says:
Zakharchenko has responded to the resignation story. According to him, the reporter from The Expert asked him something like “Why would you sign . . .” and put to him the sellout version of Minsk item 2, and he replied that he would resign before he ever signed such a thing, the actual wording is “. . .”
So he said/she said. She is a journalist. Advantage Alexandr.
The situation at the airport is coming out in drips and drabs but I make it to be this. There are sub-basement tunnels connecting to the outside. The personnel in the tunnels are being rotated. The heavy artillery is in the woods and Givi has coordinates but nothing to fire.
I’m trying to regret every death, but it’s difficult. The people who are suffering abnormal casualties at the airport are not NAF but gung ho members of the punitive battalions The fewer the better. They might breed.
BTW, sending out a company or two to set up ambushes is an excellent way to sustain morale in the frustrating airport situation.
If AZ (I hesitate to use this abbreviation for fear someone might take it to be AngloZionist) is assembling idle artillery and sending it to the airport, this is excellent news.
“Fabricated crimes?” I saw a video of the first people into Strelkov’s HQ after he peeled out of Slavyansk, and he appears to have neglected to tidy up. He did not destroy all the death warrants, and god knows what was left in the cellar. Teeth? There are also reports that his own men have been testifying that he is a sadist.
“Off goes our leader on another of his mysterious missions.” Let’s keep our fingers crossed.
I suspended judgement on Strelkov for a long time because the esteemed Saker was in his corner, but he seemed to avoid fighting (reconnaissance and sabotage never won a battle) and there was a lot of defeatist talk about how impossible it was to go to offense, even after, in other hands, it had become a fait accompli.
Akhmetov intrigues me. He’s a much more complex and ambiguous character than Kolomoisky or Poroshenko. If he would trade Mariupol for immunity from shelling for his facilities in Donetsk, would this be such a bad thing?
Has anyone ever figured out how much chocolate per head Ukrainians would have had to eat to make Poroshenko a billionaire?
Cassandra Says:
Zakharchenko has responded to the resignation story. According to him, the reporter from The Expert asked him something like “Why would you sign . . .” and put to him the sellout version of Minsk item 2, and he replied that he would resign before he ever signed such a thing, “the actual wording is . . .”
So it’s he said/she said. She is a journalist. Advantage Aleksandr.
If there was, in fact, a resignation letter drawn up because of a policy battle, why would you think its withdrawal meant Zakharchenko had lost the struggle?
The situation at the airport is coming out in drips and drabs but I make it to be this. There are sub-basement tunnels connecting to the outside. The personnel in the tunnels are being rotated. The heavy artillery is in the woods and Givi has coordinates but nothing to fire.
I’m trying to regret every death, but it’s difficult. The people who are suffering abnormal casualties at the airport are not the best of NAF but gung ho members of the punitive battalions The fewer the better. They might breed.
BTW, sending out a company or two to set up ambushes is an excellent way to sustain morale in the frustrating airport situation.
If AZ (I hesitate to use this abbreviation for fear someone might take it to be AngloZionist) is assembling idle artillery and sending it to the airport, this is excellent news.
“Fabricated crimes?” I saw a video of the first people into Strelkov’s HQ after he peeled out of Slavyansk, and he appears to have neglected to tidy up. He did not destroy all the death warrants, and god knows what was left in the cellar. Teeth? There are also reports that his own men have been testifying that he is a sadist.
“Off goes our leader on another of his mysterious missions.” Let’s keep our fingers crossed.
I suspended judgement on Strelkov for a long time because the esteemed Saker was in his corner, but he seemed to avoid fighting (reconnaissance and sabotage never won a battle) and there was a lot of defeatist talk about how impossible it was to go to offense, even after, in other hands, it had become a fait accompli.
Akhmetov intrigues me. He’s a much more complex and ambiguous character than Kolomoisky or Poroshenko. If he would trade Mariupol for immunity from shelling for his facilities in Donetsk, would this be such a bad thing?
Has anyone ever figured out how much chocolate per head Ukrainians would have had to eat to make Poroshenko a billionaire?
Sorry for the double post. It was slow to vanish and I thought it hadn’t gone.
MODERATOR: it would be good if you caught and deleted these. Nobody would dream of calling it censorship.
Cass