I am sitting in front of my computer and watch the movie “The Burn,” by Arkadii Mamontov, about the May 2nd Odessa massacre. The movie is very well made and I hope that somebody will subtitle it in English. It shows a lot of video footage of various events, which all took place last year. Scenes include the intercepted telephone calls of local Ukronazi leaders, the smiling faces of the young Ukrainian girls preparing Molotov cocktails, the applause from the crowd, with the Ukronazi lynch mob approaching the square where the anti-Maidan demonstrators had their tents. Two things in particular amaze me: the absolute burning hatred of the Ukronazis for the “separy” or “colorady” (the anti-Maidan Ukrainians) and the fact they are all speaking in Russian! Not a single word is uttered by these Russia-haters, in their beloved Ukrainian language.
And I ask myself – are these Russians or not?
I suppose that it depends on your definition of Russians. For me, a Russian is any person who loves, and cares for Russia. It is not an ethnicity or a language, but a “civilizational realm”, just like there are Indian or Chinese civilizational realms. By those criterions, these Ukronazis are not Russians.
In that logic, history is literally irrelevant.
Let’s imagine an imaginary people who lived for 5000 years on an island with no contact with the outside world. And yet, one day, some of them, for whatever reason, decide to declare that they are a totally different nation, with nothing in common with the rest of the islanders. They invent themselves a language, a history and some ersatz of a culture. It is all utter nonsense, of course, and any historical investigation will reveal this fraud. But even if all their founding myths completely contradict the historical record, even if their language is completely artificial and invented, and even if their entire claim to a separate identity is based on nothing, nothing at all, there is one thing which cannot be impugned, one thing which is undeniably real: their seething hatred for their own people, culture and history. That hatred by itself does not need to be based on anything, it can appear ex nihilo and no amount of logical demonstrations will weaken it.
Superficially, one could look at the footage of the Odessa massacre and say that these were Russians killing Russians. But this is a deeply misguided view. Because of “russian-ness” or “being Russian” is something which originates in the soul and identity of a person, then you cannot be Russian and hate Russia. Even if you come from 100 generations of “pure” Russians (whatever that means), you cease to be ‘Russian’ the moment you start hating Russia. You become a Russian-speaking Ukronazi.
There is also another crucial difference between Russians and Ukronazis. You can watch any Russian TV show, read any article, and watch thousands of hours of footage made in the streets of Novorussia or Russia proper and you will see the same thing over and over again: people moved by love. Love of their country, love of their people, love of a socially just, social order, love of the memory and examples of those who gave their lives in defense of freedom.
Che Guevara once wrote: “Let me say, with the risk of appearing ridiculous, that the true revolutionary is guided by strong feelings of love. It is impossible to think of an authentic revolutionary without this quality. This is perhaps one of the great dramas of a leader; he must combine an impassioned spirit with a cold mind and make painful decision without flinching. Our vanguard revolutionaries must idealise their love for the people, for the most hallowed causes, and make it one and indivisible. They cannot descend, with small doses of daily affection, to the terrain where ordinary men put their love into practice. ” The Che wrote this about Cuba, but it very much applies to Novorussia today: the Novorussian revolution (that is what it is, of course, a revolution) is moved by love.
Compare that with the Nazi-occupied Ukraine I call “Banderastan”:
How do you burn cops who are ordered to stand down and not fight back?
How do you gouge out the eyes of an already wounded cop?
How do you shoot your own demonstrators?
How do you betray every pledge you make?
How do you rejoice at the sight of people burned alive?
How do you take pride in shelling your own people, all civilians?
How do you voluntarily accept to be a foreigner’s puppet?
How do you massacre hundreds of foreigners, who just happen to fly across your airspace?
How do you deprive your own people from basic necessities to fight an unwinnable war?
How do you spend all your time, day in and day out, lying, lying, lying and then lying some more?
How do you so sell – literally – your own country, people and culture to foreign vultures?
You do that when you are moved by a burning, raging, seething hatred.
But where does this hate come from? Centuries of oppression and vicious ‘russification’? Hardly, one cannot oppress for “centuries” something which was only born 100 years ago. The famous “Holodomor”?! Nope. Every single nation of the Soviet Union did suffer terribly under the Soviet rule, not just the Ukrainians. I would add that the historical record shows that the Ukrainians were over-represented in the Soviet political system and that they had it better, not worse, than the rest of the Soviet people. So what is the cause of such hatred?
Could it be that deep inside themselves they know that they are a fraud? That their national identity has no positive expression? That Ukrainian identity is nothing more than ‘russophobia’? Can you imagine how humiliating it must be for them to only score “victories” against unarmed civilians? Or how it feels when your national Parliament declares that Russia is an “aggressor state” and Russia simply ignores this? Or how these nationalists feel when they look at the “score board” of the Ukrainian nationalist movement: the Ukrainian People’s Republic (1917) was a total disaster, as were the equally short-lived Hetmanate and Directorate. Then, after the usual Polish meddling, the “independent Ukraine” was finished. It took the “independent Ukraine” only 5 years to end in total chaos by 1922. It reemerged in 1991 as the richest ex-Soviet Republic. This time it took the Ukrainians over 20 years to completely destroy all the immense human and material capital the Soviet Union had built: first came the “glorious” independence, followed by a no less “glorious” Orange Revolution and it all climaxed in an even more “glorious” Euro-Maidan. Now the country is ruined, broken up into at least 5 regions (Crimea – gone, Donbass – gone, and South, Central and West regions) ruled by local feudal lords. Russia, in the meanwhile, has achieved an economic miracle and is probably in the process of achieving a second one, all this, while staring down the entire Western Empire. Yeah, if I was an Ukronazi, I would probably also hate Russia.
Banderastan today, is a spiritual, intellectual and moral cesspool, filled with hatred, ignorance and envy. Paradoxically, it is this dark and nasty nature, which makes it so un-Russian, so truly alien to Russia and to the Russian people. In a sad and tragic way, the Ukronazis have achieved their dream – they have created an anti-Russia, a polar opposite of the Russian civilizational realm.
What we are seeing today in the Donbass, is similar to what happens when you mix matter and anti-matter, it is a clash of Russia with anti-Russia, and it results in a volatile rupture, an implosion which has already claimed many lives and which will claim many more, before it is finally over.
It gives me no joy, no Schadenfreude, to see how ugly, nasty, vicious and depraved this rump-Ukraine has become. When I think of Kiev, the “mother of all Russian cities,” as it has been known since antiquity, occupied by Nazi freaks, I think of the words of the Scripture about the “abomination of desolation standing in the holy place” and I only feel an immense sadness.
I hope and pray that there will be enough love in Russia to overcome this hatred and that one day the Ukraine will recover her past identity and glory. Yes, for the time being, Darkness has really completely engulfed this land, but as long as the Donbass remains unconquered, there is still hope. As long as there is love and truth anywhere in the ex-Ukraine, the Nazis have not won. I take immense solace in the fact that after over a year of hateful anti-Russian propaganda and after an endless series of ugly provocations, there *still* is no anti-Ukrainian hatred in Russia. This fact, somehow unnoticed by most, is almost miraculous by itself. The junta in Kiev has literally done everything conceivable to enrage Russia, and yet there are no anti-Ukrainian feelings in Russia at all.
It will take a lot of love and compassion from the Russian people to rescue whatever will be left of the Ukraine, by the time the Nazis are fully defeated. Nobody else will do it, least of all the EU or US, if only because they themselves suffer a sharp deficit of love or compassion.
Until that day comes, Russia will have to protect her people from the hateful maniacs which have taken over the Ukraine and her soul, from the contagion of hatred. I believe that she can do it.
The Saker
It’s rare to find oneself agreeing with every point in a given article or editorial, well, this one did it for me: A very insightful analysis on what factors have lead to such a distorted, psychotic, and hateful state in Bandherastan. Also a very well put description of what makes a true member of a given civilization or nation: it’s not blood or language, it’s primarily culture, ethos and spirit.
Finally the points on love and the very mature, sophisticated and confident way the Russian population has reacted to the idiotic way the trash in Kiev are trying to induce hatred, are right on the mark. The way to crush the designs of instigators is to transcend their provocations and focus on the end goal: taking intact and with least destruction that which the instigators wish both sides to destroy. Doing that delivers the bitterest of defeats to them.
Great article.
Psychotic is the word, 3 Cents.
According to Putin, the reason why this particular brand of nationalism breeds so much hatred is long-standing, deep-seated suffering. Trauma, in other words. One recalls Putin’s reply to writer Sergei Lukyanenko (Direct Line 2014), who said “Sometimes I think Ukraine is cursed” (this bit seems to have got lost in transcription)
– Vladimir Putin: You know, Sergei – may I call you Sergei? -, I don’t agree with you. … I can’t agree that Ukraine is a damned land. Please don’t use this expression with regard to Ukraine. Ukraine is a long-suffering land; it’s a very complicated community and a long-suffering one in the direct sense of the word. Nationalism and even neo-Nazism are experiencing a resurgence in western Ukraine. But you know well the history of this territory and its people. Some of these territories were part of Czechoslovakia, some of Hungary, some of Austro-Hungary and some of Poland, where they were second-rate citizens never full-fledged citizens [but were in fact] were second-rate citizens. [Therefore] something has always been growing in their heart of hearts. were… We should help them… as much as we can. [That’s] the role of a good neighbour and the closest relative.
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/20796
Through these words, Putin translated Russia’s incapacity to hate – as he did again during this year’s Direct Line, when he asked people never to consider any country as an enemy, and more recently yet, when he told of the absence in his parents’ heart of any hatred for German soldiers, with his mother finding excuses and attenuating circumstances for them…
Therefore, there will be no anti-Ukronazi hatred: only compassion and love.
Clearly ,president of Russia is very intelligent person very different than rest of western politicians everyone should find out long time ago.He think a step( maybe more ) ahead of his adverseries. This must drive crazy theirs psycho-analysis intel services..He is patriot and Christian in his heart(his mother must have great influence on him).He also genuinely love animals-this should prove he is definitely not- bad person- and who still doubt about him just watch his over 3hrs. Q/A to general public.
@ 3 Cents,
Q; A very insightful analysis on what factors have lead to such a distorted, psychotic, and hateful state in Bandherastan.
R; Does that also explain the Apartheid State’s identity crisis?
In spite of being an atheist, when I finished reading this, I felt like saying … Amen!
Nice article by Saker, I agree.
I allow me only 2 remarks.
As I know: In Russia there already is hate against Ukraine, there is even hate against people of Novorussia. Read some blogs and comments, it is obvious and disturbing.
What I miss: what made of Ukraine the black hole of Europe? Long before Maidan and cookies and USD millions of Nuland. The very sick idea of bolsh(j)ewism. Was it not worth mentioning?
It is oh-so convenient to blame “bolsh(j)ewism” for the plight of both Russia and Ukraine, but one must be reminded that Stalin and his henchmen were bureaucrats AND dictatorial, and there was next to nothing in the Marxism Lenin learned that would allow dictatorship anywhere. The “dictatorship of the proletariat” slogan was just that – something that could not possible be realized in a peasant and non-democratic empire like Russia in 1917, or even 1977. Lenin himself cut off relations with Stalin before his death, but could not remove him from office, because by then Stalin had jammed the Politburo with his “disciples” and boot lickers. This regime, whatever you wish to call it – dictatorship, deformed bureaucracy, criminal putsch – did not represent Bolshevism, and could not stand on its own for long without critical economic and political help from Europe or the United States. This was acknowledged by Lenin and Trotsky, but they did not follow through on this analysis by realizing the “Bolshevism” could not last long under those circumstances. Stalin the monk-in-training and sociopath converted to bureaucrat realized a longer lasting regime at the expense of citizens of his “empire”, European “comrades” who were sacrificed to defend the Soviet Union at all costs (not build their own “revolution”). This travesty cannot be called socialism, communism, or any “ism” except Stalinism. It is convenient for Russians to use this as an excuse to build another oligarchy, but this stupid idea will not build a nation worth of understanding its own history.
To “the master”
I read Russian blogs much more than any English sources, and I am a psychologist. Let me now say that the emotion you are describing is not hate. It is frustration, annoyance, anger, even disgust and pity, but it is not hate.
Aleksander Solzhenitsyn, as devoted to Russia as any. had this to say:
More than half a century ago, while I was still a child, I recall hearing a number of older people offer the following explanation for the great disasters that had befallen Russia: Men have forgotten God; that’s why all this has happened.
Since then I have spent well-nigh fifty years working on the history of our Revolution; in the process I have read hundreds of books, collected hundreds of personal testimonies, and have already contributed eight volumes of my own toward the effort of clearing away the rubble left by that upheaval. But if I were asked today to formulate as concisely as possible the main cause of the ruinous Revolution that swallowed up some sixty million of our people, I could not put it more accurately than to repeat: Men have forgotten God; that’s why all this has happened.
What is more, the events of the Russian Revolution can only be understood now, at the end of the century, against the background of what has since occurred in the rest of the world. What emerges here is a process of universal significance. And if I were called upon to identify briefly the principal trait of the entire twentieth century, here too, I would be unable to find anything more precise and pithy than to repeat once again: Men have forgotten God.
More at http://www.roca.org/OA/36/36h.htm
Men believe they ARE gods.
It was Nietzche who understood the consequences of that – that’s what made him crazy.
Not just Nietzche…. pretty much all of us …insanely partaking in the destruction of the planet, in the insane belief that what we inflict on others we can escape ourselves.. Blowback I think its called.
I respect Solzhenitsyn enormously, for a lot of reasons, principally for his courage. He was unequivocal in stating that the cause of this insanity was spiritual in origin. Consequently so must be its healing. Pretty much a voice in the wilderness these days.
Similarly Tolstoy claimed the source of our problems was spiritual ( The Kingdom of God is within you , 1893), a work that was both banned, and widely ignored. Suggestions that reality is the handiwork of God and that we who think we think separately from God can create but illusions, has never been popular…
The “Rus-sians” that live in the area called Ukraine can only recover once the fascists are defeated.And the people are free to be “Rus-sian” again.Throughout their history they have shined as part of the Russian peoples.The writers,musicians,soldiers,political leaders,that have come from that area have been some of the finest “Rus-sians” have produced.But they shined as “Rus-sians”,as who they are.Its the un-natural freak-show since 1991 that has brought those people down to this level.For that I blame the enemies of Russia that started this freak-show in the 19th century.Then the fascists,and other ultra-nationalists that tried to build their power on a Russia-hate.The former Ukrainian governments that played to the fascist nationalists for election votes.And finally the US/EU/NATO for using this evil to attack Russia with.Its time for the freak-show to close down.The Rus lands contain a population of 200 million.Allowing the rise of nazism there,being used against them,puts at risk the lives and futures of those peoples and their 1000 years old history together.No matter the struggle,and cost,allowing the triumph of Russophobia there would be worse.
That hatred is a triumph of the Hegemon. It is perfection. It is unlike anything so well managed, not even the Khmer Rouge manipulation of the very young, or Mao’s Cultural Revolution and its use of the young as Red Guards nor the madness of the Third Reich and Hitler Youth has been so effective.
But then, it cost billions ($5 Billion they brag). And it has taken at least 23 years, but we know the West has nurtured to keep alive fascism in many places for 70 years.
So the incubation has been for many generations.
We are seeing the paroxysm now in Ukraine. They are devouring not only Russians but their own.
Russians will blunt it, crush it and eventually, it will extinguish itself. Hate so white hot cannot last.
It is good that it is so profoundly insane. Like any white hot flame it cannot last.
And no better group of humanity than Russians to face it down. No better group of Russians than Ukrainian Russians to defeat it.
God knows how this ends. He has trusted the right saints to fight these devils.
Many moons ago, I had an aquarium with beautiful tropical fish. It was my Dad’s and mine home science project. I studied this fish. I learned how to take care of them. We got books, and equipment. We set up an underwater castle and lights.
One day my Ukrainian friend came over. While I was getting ready to go out and play, my Ukrainian friend took and dumped my Mom’s perfumes, creams, makeup into the aquarium. My beautiful enchanted underwater world was dead within munities.
This Ukrainian child found intolerable that someone else owned something so beautiful.
This 7 year old child was so filled with hate, rage, and jealousy that it had destroyed the object of its jealousy. It decided to kill and executed its decision on the spot. Afterwards, it acted like absolutely nothing had happened.
Seeing my fish to die had become a childhood trauma that never heals.
Since then I see this child-murderer in the eyes of every Ukrainian I meet anywhere in the world.
I wouldn’t let the Ukrainians to touch your aquarium, if I were you.
Scott, I can see how that would have been like knife to the heart.
But a 7 year old does NOT KNOW. A 7 year old has not reached the age of reason. Without the aquarium there he would have smeared the makeup all over a table, “cooking” or “painting”. Possibly he’s smeared makeup on cats or dogs with no ill-effects.
And you have acquired a hatred for a whole people, based on this one horrible incident. ” I see this child-murderer in the eyes of every Ukrainian ” is a visceral reaction, one you cannot help, one that is not based on reality — and you know it but can’t help it.
Maybe this incident can help you come to understand how some childhood incident may be behind SOME of the hate being shown in Ukraine today. Or worse, some incident in a parent’s or grandparent’s life that they told, when the child was at an impressionable age which has forever prejudiced him against Russians. Subconsciously. Kids brought up on stories of eating grass to survive, of neighbours dragged away and killed…. are going to notice and maximise everything bad about the “others” and ignore or dismiss as accidental anything good about them.
Sad to say, this is especially bad among emigres. People who grew up on stories of hate and atrocities, without actually meeting any of the “others” to find out they are just normal people — like all the OUN-UPA raised generations of Ukrainians in Canada and USA. They are brought up to hate, to feel their people are victims, to want revenge.
This is true for descendants of Ustasha, too, and of German SS. Obviously they remember their actions as justified, and will pass on those excuses, together with lurid stories of atrocities committed against them while playing down any they committed.
The same is going on today among everyone in the former Yugoslavia (I was very happy to see some of them start to talk in neutral tones on two recent articles here, but they can’t all do it without serious mediation.).
Kat Kan, do you have kids? I am going to guess that you don’t, otherwise you wouldn’t claim that a seven year old doesn’t know right from wrong, i.e. that hurting animals is wrong.
Re: the “same” going on today among everyone in the former Yugoslavia; by “same” I take it that you mean the hatred. Everyone? For real, you have some statistical data to back that up, or you talked to half a dozen people and formed your general conclusions? And they can’t all do it without serious mediation? And you’re going to be the mediator? Spare me the patronizing.
“,,,among everyone in the former Yugoslavia…” everyone as in people from all “sides”, not every single person. You just need to see some of the comments here every time the subject comes up. “THEY committed atrocities, WE were only defending ourselves”. “We are innocent victims THEY are natural born killers”. Drag in some wartime and earlier incidents, all the way back hundreds of years, as their evidences (some of which I already know from hearing it while growing up, thank you) …. clear proof there was enmity and motives of revenge pre-existing, something the Balkans are as well known for as Sicily is.
To break such a cycle, people need to talk facts, which they do not have full access to while they are taught only “their side”. They need to listen to the “other side”. Without always wanting to come to blows about it. Some here were starting to listen to each other. It gladdened my heart to see it. I hope Saker’s Vineyard may prove a peaceful enough place to let them keep doing it, here where they can see how lies are told everywhere to divide people.
Everyone my arse. I am from yugoslavia and you are simply either badly misinformed or simply a liar.
It’s well known who the nazi proxies ther were and still are. Just look at the croatian flag, hymn or the military salute for example, which are all from the ww2 nazi croatian state.
Same goes for bosnian jihadis (google for handjar SS division) or the albanian nazis.
Stop selling bullshit, doesn’t work for the audience that’s not totally clueless.
How did proxies become proxies? both in WW2 and in more recent times? what was there for the Evil Empire to build on? and 100% of those people are like that, are they? for example, do you believe all Ukrainians are now (suddenly) Nazis just because they are not speaking up against them? what happens if they try?
What happened to all the Croatians and Bosnians who died? did they shell themselves, like the people of Donbass do?
The question is how did everyone get to where they were (mentally and geographically both), became what they became, got to do what they did. That will never be answered while “THEY were always evil” is considered a sufficient answer by anyone. And while anyone thinks the blood on his own hands is just water, if it’s the blood of an “evil one”.
In this particular case, religion only. Catholic vs. orthodox vs. moslems. Of course, the whole thing was driven by Germany and Vatican (Croatia) or by US, Turkey and Iran (Bosnia) or by US only (Kosovo). Nothing yugoslav about it at all, if it wasn’t for foreign orchestration and imported mercenaries, we wouldn’t have had any wars there.
Otherwise yugoslavs are genetically one people (except for the rather recently imported albanians that is). Corats and Serbs are thoroughly intemixed and about one qarter is coming from mixed marriages. Bosnian moslems are former Serbs and Croats who took islam under Ottoman rule.
“… while “THEY were always evil” is considered a sufficient answer by anyone”
seems like you have been talking to some extremists. Most common people there feel no hate towards any side, it’s as always just the “elites” and the 5th column who made it possible. Say less than 2% of all people.
No hate maybe. A lot of bitterness and feeling of being victims. If there are victims, there are also perpetrators. And then we hear the “Ustasha” , the lurid descriptions of atrocities, who was more cruel than which other…. and the whole being duped and used by outside forces is glossed over. Hardly a week goes by that I don’t see, here on this blog., someone mentioning dreams/hopes of getting this or that territory back. (How? one day they’ll just drop it in your letterbox???) Then the arguments start over whose territory that really was, and when, and who took it off who back then….
Better if everyone looked at what the Empire is trying to do in Vojvodina and find some way to prevent it.
@ Kat Kan
“No hate maybe. A lot of bitterness and feeling of being victims.”
Bitterness for being victimized?
We are still victimized by the Empire and are very touchy when someone try to tell us,after we went thru just last 100 years,that we should just let it gone. Those that are pursuing Vojvodina and Sandzak narrative in Sebia are telling us just that.
We are not allowed to even discuss the topic of history without being labeled ultra radical rightists or something to that effect.
That does not mean that we should not take our country back from those who are using the “Enemy” narrative to stay in power as is now in Serbia the case. As is happening in the Baltic states now and Poland. And in Ukraine until Empire reactivated those old hatreds which were never properly addressed.
But those preventing us are telling us that we should just stop talking about our dead. That is not acceptable! Silencing of the dead twice is not acceptable. First by killing them and second time by forgetting their death.
Dialogue is possible only with those who respect our sacrifice and our dead. I am ready and willing to respect deaths and sacrifices of others. But i also ask the dead to be counted,named,buried and remembered. Of all sides and by all sides. Those unwilling to do that…with them there can be no dialogue. We do not need more dead. We had enough.
No hard feelings Kat Kan but we here are touchy about that topic.
I explained above who the proxies were, thus it’s also very clear who the victims were. Trying to turn the perpetrators into victims is just sick and obviously will not work. Noone in the world will believe that for example Albanians were any “victims”, that’s simply preposterous. They’ve been there less than 100 years to begin with and more than a half came illegaly from Albania and were not born in Yugoslavia at all.
I see no danger in Vojvodina, being that it’s 80+% Serbs there. There are no problems with Hungarians there either. I think that’s just nonsense.
On the other side, with such a fifth-column government we have in Serbia, everything is possible. I personally would want to separate from them as well. I see no change coming, since the people have absolutely no means to do anything. Serbs will unfortunately yet again have to endure and survive, but survive they will – that’s a given. Even 600 years of ruthless Ottoman rule and forceful islamization couldn’t destroy them, this is a walk in the park in comparison.
As for that bitternes – my cousin from Serbia has a croatian girlfriend and right now lives in Zagreb with her, no problems. And I know many other such cases. As said, the common people don’t feel any real hate and bitterness beyond the personal losses, we always got along just fine. It’s just the top 1% serviong the foreigners and the 2-3% of gullible low-IQ idiots who feel and nurture that hate and bitterness.
I understand your point..but on this site we should explain own thought without insult each other…this site should be different than any site which you visit….
Well said Mygpa. The children who murdered young James Bulger didn’t know what they were doing either. Phttt!!!!!
Sorry but no – a 7-year old knows more than enough, also about death. I knew when I was four.
If he doesn’t, he is already a little psychopath. His parents certainly did everything wrong or are psychos themselves.
Why do they not charge 4 year olds and 7 year olds as adults???
Would a kid that age, if not specifically taught, know what would kill fish? do you realise that even plain ordinary tap water can kill some fish, even ones that are not salt water varieties?
Of course it is the fault of his parents that he was not brought up to keep out of other peoples’ property when he is visiting.
@ SCOTT what did he/she actually say to indicate he was jealous? or that he was INTENDING to kill them? You refer to him as a friend. You had the fish for some time. Was this the first time he’d seen them? How did he get opportunity to dump “all” those things in without being stopped? he got a sudden attack of rage which lasted just long enough to find and take something to kill them with? intentionally to kill them?
“…it acted like absolutely nothing had happened….” was anything said or done by any adults? if so, what? which adults, yours or his/hers?
Scott, I am in no way trying to trivialise your pain. But I am not sure about the motives you assign, without more detail. Others here seem to have accepted this as a deliberate murder. You clearly believe it was. How much of that opinion comes from your trauma?
This is not a phillosophical question. If a 4 or 7 year old enjoys torturing flies etc., you can be sure that he will be perfectly capable of beheading people as an adult. It is a simple fact of life, confirmed by real experience.
Even the science confirms this, if that’s more to your taste – not that it means anything in reality. Until short time ago, the science was sure that the Sun orbits the Earth.
We have no evidence of this kid torturing flies. This kid put some stuff into an aquarium which led to the death of the fish. Did he/she know it might? did he/she intend that result? We DO NOT KNOW. But you’re all quick to judge.
Are you guys familiar with the concept of the continuum — murder – manslaughter – justifiable homicide – accidental death – legal/judicial killing? You cannot ASSUME murder from the body being dead.
The deaths traumatised Scott, I well believe it. That still does not make it murder. Or does that now depend on how hurt the survivors were? so if nobody gives a damn some “unhuman” got murdered, that isn’t murder anymore (cf police killings of blacks in USA)?
This is very very important. Especially when we are trying to understand why people hate enough to kill on purpose and to do so with maximum cruelty. Is it unprovoked? is it revenge? is it revenge for something that happened? something they just believe happened? Journalists and politicians are turning up dead – is it murder? identified perpetrators of the Odessa massacre are turning up dead – is it murder?
Yet “kill them all” is repeatedly offered, on this blog, as the final solution to rid Ukraine and Europe of Nazis. Where have we heard that wording before?
“You cannot ASSUME murder from the body being dead.”
If the head has a big bullet hole in it, it’s rather easy to determine it was murder. again, you are talking hollow phillosophy. That’s got nothing to do with hard reality.
Execution by firing squad.
Stray bullet in crossfire.
Self defence.
Soldier in war zone.
Soldier in live-fire exercise.
Suicide.
Hunting accident.
Someone playing with a gun they thought was not loaded.
If the head has a big bullet hole in it, you can fairly safely rule out natural causes, and that’s just about it. Murder is unlawful INTENTIONAL killing.
So then, what is “your” idea for dealing with the homicidal nazis in Ukraine? As I’m one of those that, A. doesn’t consider all Ukrainians as nazis.Only a small powerful minority.And B. believes that those not killed in the fighting or fled,should be imprisoned or executed.I’m curious about what you think should befall the murderers of men,women,and children of Novorossia and Odessa.
I remember being 7. I would never have done something like that, first getting into someone else’s things, such as perfume and makeup, and secondly doing anything to someone’s fish. I was not that unusual — most all other kids my age would have known this was wrong, and that a kid who did that was not normal — was one of those ‘weird kids’ who was a trouble-maker. This might be expected from a two or maybe three year old, but not 7.
Now, maybe he was atypical for Ukrainians too – I could guess so, but there was something wrong with that kid or his upbringing.
From the way Scott avoided specifying the gender I think it may have been a she, explaining the interest in the makeup. Of COURSE it should have known (but would have had to be taught to know) to keep out of other people’s things without permission. We just have not been given evidence that the intent was to kill or harm the fish, that’s all I said.
Scott’s trauma from the shock has made him react to all Ukrainians as if they are killers. It is tragic that he still has to carry THAT all his life. Perhaps he can lose some of that by re-examining what happened that day. Perhaps not. But worth a try?
Will you ever stop equating ustashas with everybody else, you con professional?
Who is going to do the “mediation” in order to make us all “neutral” after so many atrocities have been committed against us Serbs within the last quoter of a century? Fake “humanists” & Con jobs like yourself from the NATO special psychological war departments?
The only thing worse than the war profiteers are the antiwar profiteers such as yourself.
What exactly do you mean? TO live now with the scum as if nothing has happened?
No, no, & no! No “neutrality” can exist between victims & the forth zionist reich executioners.
Those who propagate some “normalcy” amongst us — after effectively a genocide against Serbs, conceived a century & a half ago by Disraeli & carried out by the Austro-Hungarian empire, then by the Nazis, & finally by their logical descendents from NATO, is successfully brought to the end – are our worst enemies!
Maybe you need to rent the movies “Mississippi burning” In the movie FBI agent Gene Hackman tells his young partner about his childhood in Mississippi.. His family lived beside a black family on a farm . Both families were poor. One day the black family brought a mule to the farm and the next day the mule was dead. Hackman’s father could not accept that a black man should be better off since he did not have one. The moral of the story they still shoot blacks in America for being black. .
Hollywood movie. What makes you think it ever happened?
Reading racist comments on pretty much every mainstream media website.
Good point but it was loosely based on the FBI investigation into the murders of three civil rights workers in the U.S. state of Mississippi in 1964. I suppose you question that KKK did not exist and they did not lynch, burn property and kill animals. of black people. Lets ignore the KKK , US as a nation came into being by killing others, natives, blacks, and Mexicans in their thousands. This was not just incidental it was a policy. What happened to Joe Winters is not just one example , there were thousands of Joe Winters. He . lived in the black part of Conroe I think Taxes and worked at one of the sawmills outside town. In the early 1920s, he was married to a woman named Anna but he also had a girlfriend – and she was white they burned him alive. Others were roasted on a spit as the good Christians looked on.
There was an article recently on ‘Counterpunch’ about that same type of ‘lynching’ during the 30’s in the south.
It was referred to as ‘Spectacular lynching’ crowds of white people enjoying the suffering of others.
The same kind of diseased minds that enjoyed the spectacle of ‘traitors’ being hung,drawn and quartered in england,or skinning alive of jews in france.
disgusting!
That doesn’t say anything about Ukrainans – any 7 year old can do hurtful things and in years they will learn to distinguish between good and evil.
But that memory wil tell something about you – can you say that you have no prejustice against Ukrainians?
“Since then I see this child-murderer in the eyes of every Ukrainian I meet anywhere in the world.”
How do you recognise a Ukrainian, never mind every Ukrainian you meet?
The emigration of Ukrainians was largely encouraged by events, and those who introduce themselves as Ukrainian tend to be more likely to have been subject to different encouragements than others who emigrated from Ukraine.
Scott… I feel your pain
Kat Kan… when I was 7 yrs old I sure knew right from wrong.
..and it’s not always the ‘parent’s fault’ – that is a cop out.
Have a good look a kids playing and in particular your own grandkids and you will see what others here are saying.
I can see a frighteningly lot of stupid behaviour with no idea of the consequences. It is a miracle so many kids survive to adulthood. And many actions may lead to unintended consequences, too. .
For right and wrong to be an issue, the person must KNOW the likely results of his actions. So far we have no evidence of such knowledge or such intent. We cannot infer motives from results. This applies to everything.
USA: “they attack us because they hate our freedom” just as an example.
“because they hate our freedom”
Dubya was partly correct, he should have said “because they hate our freedom to impose our will and so increasingly they will fight against it.”
That was the view of Rumsfeld and others.
Absolutelly correct
Not correct at all. This was just one more “Big Lie” applied to massage the “Big Ego” of American so called exceptionalism. Clinton , when asked about his relationship with Monica he responded by saying “I did it because I could”. The same is true about the 50 or so wars that USA has been in since WWII. .
“depends what your defintion of “is” is.
Bill Clintons defense for his Monica affair.
Bill Clinton represents MICRO America ‘ He did it because he had the power to do it” on a MACRO level USA destroys nations and kills innocent people because they can since there is no one out there to stop them. They create tribunals for others and exonerate their criminality by self righteousness.
Consequentialism is very problematic, and we often can not know what the results of action will be with certainly, but this is not the same knowing right from wrong, which is based on general principles and standards. I may not know the results of moving objects in someone else’s house from one place to another but I know it’s wrong because it isn’t my house and I have no business touching their stuff, or disrespecting them and their rights like that.
If another kid has a toy I have no business playing with it without asking even I think I won’t hurt it simply because it isn’t mine. That’s basic kid level ethics.
Scott, Kat Kan, and several others. I saw this thread hours ago but could not get to it because of a work deadline. I consider it one of THE best, deepest most fundamental threads I have ever seen in my short months of looking and posting a bit. Why? Because, for better or for worse, we human beings are formed primarily (not 100%….there is hope, even some very few with horrendous childhoods became good or even great men or women…) in our “formative years”. So particular thanks to Kat Kan for hanging in there to the end of the thread despite deep eruptions from some very wounded and indignant people from several tortured lands. Are they right? Partially, no doubt! However, I see in Kat Kan more of an impulse to clarify and bring forth PRINCIPLES congruent with the Saker’s theme (Love vs Hate) than I see in the outraged posts taking exception to a few of Kat Kan’s minor points expressed in some general way using a particular geography or ethnicity as examples to illustrate principles. “All generalizations are false.” (including this one), so Kat Kan’s points can be attacked on any number of pretexts, but who is helping develop the PRINCIPLES that have any hope of breaking the cycles of pain, killing, hatred, etc?
Otherwise, the big picture that resonates with the child in me ( I can recall countless perceptions that I had as a child, that while not fully developed, were kept in memory, and further developed, many kept, a few discarded, as I developed….) is that this area of psychology is absolutely critical to comprehending the current evolutionary challenge facing mankind: Here we are, possibly days, weeks or months from going extinct, due to WHAT??? In a nutshell due to the infantile ego run amok. Obviously, I am not referring to a single person who posted, none of whom are remotely responsible for the risk of a planet-wide extinction event. I am not even referring to the hateful persons in leadership or among their dupes in Western Ukraine. I am referring to the satanic international game masters orchestrating events, especially in the seat of Empire, whether they be based 1-300 years ago in Britain (Bentham, Palmerston and Tony Blair especially come to mind….I particularly wonder what sort of psychological or sexual buggery was used on him in his youth, to produce such pathological lies and “murder most foul”…..) or the last 100 or particulary the last 30 years right here in the USA. The Psychology of Evil, so far as I can see is nothing much more or less than the Infantile Ego to the exclusion of the rest of the Universe, including its creator, or Generative Principle, if you wish to avoid religious terms and stick to terms of pure reason. What is Evil? The particular, always the particular at the expense, or exclusion, or hatred of the universal boundary conditions restricting the Infantile Ego’s insistence on Me, Me, Me, (or We, We, We in more dangerous, collective form) in hatred of the restrictions of even the boundedness, by Natural Law, of the Universe itself.
A bunch of really, sick, sick kids, sick enough to pull off 911 to achieve the New Pearl Harbor they stated that they needed to corral a bunch of ignorant yahoos into being their American slaves in a New, Moral Piece of Shit American Empire.
Also, I thank the Saker for giving new meaning to “From Russia, With Love” phrase in this century’s culture. Let’s wrest it away from the cinematic creators of that degenerate MI-6 agent in the movies from a few decades ago. Perfidious Albion. Watch out for their cultural warfare. Especially from their Hollywood outpost. Not much love coming out of that cesspool. Bit plenty of satanic infantile shit. They call it “Mainstream Entertainment”. I call most of it a sewer of child abuse dedicated to perpetuating fantasies of the infantile ego to be captured by the much bigger infantile egos of the Atlanticist elites.
There’s a lot of evolving and growing up to do, but I believe it is happening, and though they seem only a precious few, there are too many people becoming too smart for the Empire to “win” and force defeat on the human species. No time to rest on laurels, though. Maintain urgency and finish the job, and pull off an evolutionary leap forward for all mankind. What a terrific time to be alive!
Psychopaths can be made, but in most cases they are born like that. Total lack of compassion is a genetic defect.
You might like to read “Political ponerology” by Lobaczewsky, pdf is available online. Also “Mask of sanity”. These two books are spot-on.
Appreciate the reading suggestion. Took a brief look on line. On my list now. Always a good idea to refine and sharpen one’s general knowledge and instincts with a sharper focus, with the help of others that have gone there first and report a bounty of potency and insight to be gathered. I guess i was too tired to put any name, even “anonymous”, but the moderator apparently put it through anyway. Thanks, T and MOD.
Fantastic post.
Because the root of all this is the destruction of family to facilitate the eugenics/depopulation agenda.
I don’t know how the genetic charlatans have managed to con the TPTB into an ‘evolutionary Great Leap Forward’, but they have.
Join up the dots and you will see what I mean.
The New Athenians don’t know ‘bugger’ (pun intended) about the limitations of scientific method – or genetic determinism. That’s why it’s gotten so dangerous. That’s why we are witnessing this psychotic hubris/nihilism. They believe they will survive anything.
But I also think the backlash is underway – and will soon be unstoppable.
Your post is just one of many submarines in the desert coming up for air..:)
Eimar, do you think they believe they will survive anything or do you think they believe that their tradition of evil must survive or else neither they deserve to live nor anyone else should, because otherwise their identity of superior position would be lost, which would be worse than death and extinction, because it signifies defeat of their will to power, their sine qua non of existence itself, for them? Therefore, they must risk all. Or, horrors!, slide off the pinnacle of Mt Olympus and be absorbed amongst the great unwashed rabble of mere expendable mortals?
Perhaps more study of famous conversions would be fruitful. Thinking of St Peter and Augustine of Hippo. But though degraded earlier in their lives neither was exactly Tiberius or Nero, then later a saint. Are there more extreme conversions from evil to good, I wonder?
Too bad these weren’t available when you were growing up:
http://www.neatorama.com/2013/08/06/Straitjackets-and-Other-Control-Toys-for-Unruly-Kids/
This story is very sad.
Perhaps this family left their home and many who had to do that are traumatized.
But when one sees this happening in every ukrainan, that exactly is rassism, i am sorry to have to say that.
Well done!
“I take immense solace in the fact that after over a year of hateful anti-Russian propaganda and after an endless series of ugly provocations, there *still* is no anti-Ukrainian hatred in Russia. ”
John Thefft, Vicky Nudelman, Robert Kagan and Geoffrey Pyatt should take note.
The western anglo fascists always created an anti-entity to a main adversary they wanted to fully conquer or control, Pakistan as opposed to India, certainly “israel” a zionazi outpost as opposed to peace, stability and development in the region and indeed “Ukraine”.
Is there a link to the movie “The Burn” or any other reference to this film on the Internet?
I don’t speak Russian. Perhaps Russian-speakers may correct me or comment on this.
At YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRr-VETg1CE
And the same at link below. With a little patience, at this link a player and the documentary will load and play:
same video for those without Youtube
Comment under this one says “The film is dedicated to the events of May 2, 2014, occurred in Odessa. Then, in the town house unions Ukrainian nationalists burned dozens of people. The deceased Odessans, among them were old men, women, and even teenagers, were defending their right to speak in Russian, and the right to wear a St. George ribbon.”
There are interviews and footage of the May 2 events. (47:52 in total).
Quite moving, with footage I’d not before seen. A translation would be (once again) valuable and greatly appreciated.
Overhangs in preview wrap to the margins once submitted. But I fixed it for you the fancy way, plus added translation of the comment. Happy to help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRr-VETg1CE
The actual movie “The Burn”. In Russian. A lot of interviews, but most with split screen images as well.
================
Long documentary, full story, some very 18+ content. Original footage subtitled including words of participants, where heard. Commentary all in writing. Some interviews with participants. Uses the shorter less graphic after-even walk-through footage.
Documentary (part 1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whqQCx6RXkY
(close to 2 hours)
Documentary (part2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8hOpZyVydc
(close to 3 hours)
Couldn’t help but remember from José González’, Killing for love:
Gonzáles is talking about romantic love, but only god and Freud know what goes on the deep dark souls of those that prey on Ukraine right now.
“Even if you come from 100 generations of “pure” Russians (whatever that means), you cease to be Russian the moment you being hating Russia. You become a Russian-speaking Ukronazi.”
Same holds true for the so-called “anti-Germans”. In another time this sort of “Germans” would have become hard-core fascist thugs, but today they hide behind an ultra-leftist smoescreen which to hide their infamy.
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Germans_%28political_current%29)
You’re aware the anti-Germans are all ‘anti-fascists’ ? You’re aware the different Saker blogs are stuffed with ‘anti-fascists’ contributors and commenters? Do you now realise how sick this ‘community’ is?
you and a pig both have legs, are you a pig? Similar argument, just because the Saker community believe that Yugoslavia and Serbian crisis are wrong, does not make us the so-called anti-Germans…
I am fine with you continuing your argument and admitting you are a pig…
The Saker community is obsessed with “fascists” in a fashion that can only be labeled as religious, it is well beyond the boundaries of the rational.
And thanks for the insults.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc9oBTkCgAk
Hi, Anon, it is a good clip, but please, in the future, add a few words about the link, otherwise it is a risk that the post goes automatically to spam.
I think civil wars have a tendency to becom more cruel than war between nations. Perhaps it is a feeling of betrayal that triggers the hate?
Rudolf Steiner has said that the sudden change in a group of people such as the Dutch pulling away from the Germans, and the Portuguese pulling away from Spain is a manifestation of a higher being that comes and resides within the smaller group and they suddenly want to leave. All folk groups have a higher being, an archangel that is their guiding spirit and that’s why the entire folk behave similarly. And sometimes a new archangel will come to a smaller group and they will suddenly feel like leaving.
So taking this into consideration I think the Ukraine is justified in wanting to leave mother Russia.. Even Donbass wants its independence.
But …
Sheikh Hosein quoting the Qu’ran, and Rudolf Steiner have predicted that the antiChrist is incarnating soon. Perhaps he is already here as a human being, but only a child still. Who knows ? Yet it has been prophesied.
I know the Orthodox Church says there’s no hope of survival from the ultimate antiChrist, but I would guess there’s more than one of them. And even in the Apocalypse of John, the demise of the planet is not orchestrated by the dragon and the beast and the false prophet, although they are mentioned as being defeated. The demise of the planet is actually accomplished by angelic beings. So this incarnation is not an indication of the end of the world.
Getting back to the Ukraine, the higher archangelic being that I mentioned as coming to reside within the Ukrainian people, that as a group of people are basically the same race or nationality or ‘folk’ as the great group and yet want to break away…well, in this case perhaps this higher archangelic being is being interfered with by another being. An agent of the antiChrist.
Rudolf Steiner calls this antiChrist, Ahriman. This is the name Zarathustra, or Zoroaster gave to the darkness. In the olden times people actually saw the darkness as a being, and the light also as a being, Ahura Mazdao.
Ahriman is a very powerful being, But in His great wisdom God has appointed Ahriman a part in humanity’s evolution. We must go through this incarnation of Ahriman and learn from it.
Christ said that we must “Know the Truth, and the Truth will set us free”.
As difficult as it is, this incarnation must happen for the evolution of man. What we do here at our dear Saker’s is come to know the truth. This evil that we’re witnessing cannot hurt our eternal spirit, even though it can certainly hurt our mortal being. As long as it is recognized for what it is. That it is evil. People must come to ‘Know the Truth”.
Rudolf Steiner has also said that the Slav people have a ‘double’. Steiner covers this in a few of his more than 6000 lectures. This double is like the shadow of the real Slav human being. All people have a double, but the Slav human being has it in a way that holds a future evolution within it, as the whole Slav race is destined to lead the culture of the planet in the next epoch. I think we’re witnessing this dark double in the Ukronazis,
Even though there might be a new archangelic being residing within the Ukrainian people, the behavior of some of them is truly demonic. So, combined with the coming incarnation of Ahriman and the possibility of the interference with the new folk spirit of the Ukraine by a lower being who is a ‘messenger’ of Ahriman, this is what is happening in the Ukraine today.
There are “natural” breakups of groups throughout history,you are right.But in the cases of the Dutch and Portuguese,it was just that,organic,peaceful,centuries long process of division.It wasn’t like in Ukraine’s case a plot started by outsiders, to take regional differences within a nation and manufacture a whole “new” people out of that.As I’ve said before you could in the same way divide Bavaria from Germany,or separate the South of France from the North of France. If based on the same criteria used with Ukraine.
I would not call Lenin an outsider.
His mother was Khazar. He worshipped hatred and anything Russian.
I wasn’t referring to the communists,(Though you could possibly make a case there as well) I was referring to the Austrians,Poles,and later Germans.That built a “Ukrainian” nationalism to divide and breakup Russia.Starting in the 19th century.Though with the Poles the idea was there centuries before. Their biggest error was to concentrate only on the noble class.Had they worked on the peasants they might have succeeded.But to do that they risked inciting the Polish peasants.And that they weren’t going to risk doing.
His -Lenin- grandfather been Jewish faith-his father school inspector was not(convert),but his wife was jewish….
Ann, all those books are just metaphors. And obviously misunderstood even at the top level of the respective religions, let alone the political motives for certain interpretations.
There will never be such a thing like some anti-christ in flesh. It’s that simple.
Steiner was a theosophist and sold some utterly crazy ideas over the years, also did lots of flip-flopping in his views etc. IMO, his writings are utterly worthless bunch of mumbo-jumbo, geared to cater to the new-age crowd. It was big business even back then.
Your primary anticommunism/antisovietism is a shame!
Definitely not so. So-called “Communism” of the soviet flavor was simply a fascist dictatorship in its very worst form.
I guess you did not have the “pleasure” to live under a communist regime, because if you had, you’d never want it back.
Well, I do.
And I disagree with your characterization of Soviet Union.
And I am not the only one.
Some people wish Hitler back too, for what it’s worth. Tell that to those tens of millions murdered by the Cheka etc.
You are spewing Western propaganda. There were no “tens of millions murdered by cheka”. Members of my family suffered from persecution in Soviet times, but they were smart enough to understand the complexities, and not to fall for simple and misleading
one liners.
CIA makes the CHEKA look like liker Boys Scouts of America.
We have never had a communist government on this planet never. There were attempts to create one. The Paris Commune, Allende’s Chile, and Lenin, for a short time attempted to create a communist state. All the rest of the so called communist states were “labeled Communist” to discredit Marx and democratic socialism. The Corporate Capitalists hammered home the Negative aspects of Stalinism both before and after WWII to shame people so that they would reject a collective society. . During WWII Stalin became our favorite “uncle” .-uncle Joe. Propaganda can do wonders since common people lie so if you repeat a lie frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it..
USSR like all other so called communist states were nothing more than “state Capitalism” . The workers in these societies seldom enjoyed the surplus value of their labour , and neither do the workers in Corporate Capitalist societies. A degree of political and economic democracy exists in both society, but only for as few. .
Rick Wolff says that saying Stalin was communist is like saying the Westburo Baptist Church is Christian: there’s nothing to stop people from labeling themselves [or others] however they want to, despite being much different from what the thing really is.
in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN9jSTM28Zw
Richard Wolff, “Taboo Broken: New Critical Writing About Capitalism”
merrimackcollege [53 minutes]
Published on Apr 24, 2015
Richard Wolff is Professor of Economics Emeritus at University of Massachusetts, Amherst and a Visiting Professor at the New School University in New York. Wolff’s recent work has concentrated on analyzing the causes and alternative solutions to the global economic crisis. His groundbreaking book Democracy at Work: A Cure for Capitalism inspired the creation of Democracy at Work, a nonprofit organization dedicated to showing how and why to make democratic workplaces real.
About half of Russians would disagree:
http://sputniknews.com/russia/20130208/179305284.html
There’s a chart on Levada Centre’s site which shows support for Soviet/free-market capitalism/”current” systems over the years. Since the 1990s, support for the Soviet system has hovered consistently around 50%, while the free-market capitalism’s support dropped precipitously in the early 1990s to under 30% and never recovered.
If the Soviet system comes back in Russia in some form, Russians would not mind. The main obstacle to it isn’t the public opinion, but that Russia’s ruling elites are happy in capitalism and don’t want to go back.
Also:
http://rt.com/politics/brezhnev-stalin-gorbachev-soviet-638/
I can’t find it right now, but I also saw a Levada Centre poll from the early 2000s in which Russians were asked to vote which was the best historical decade. Around 50% chose the 1970s as “the best time to be alive”. Look back at the art and culture that was produced in that period in the Soviet Union (art is always a reflection of society) and you may see why.
Comparison of the entire Soviet system with Naziism (as you and the Maidanites in power in Kiev are trying to do) is completely ridiculous.
Bullsh*t. I was born and lived in the USSR, and you do not know what you are talking about.
I really recommend Michael Parenti’s book “Blackshirts and Reds” to anyone who fell under the western propaganda spell that commis and fascists are the same. Could not be further from the truth.
Of course they are the same, the differences are purely of cosmetic nature.
In both you have:
– ideology that is “holy” and above any individual rights, equaling religion
– there is no private ownership but for the oligarchs/Party
– all industry, land etc. belongs to and is controlled by the state (as opposed to real communism, where it should belong to the workers commitees)
– suppression of any political opposition by means of violence and skewed laws
– mass murder of people who didn’t pray on the altar of the Party
– indoctrination of youth through schools, media etc., directed and strictly controlled by the state. Be it the “pioneers” or the “Hitler Youth”, all the same
– same methods of propaganda and lies regarding everything and anything
And on and on… simply said, Stalin’s country was pure fascism, or if you want it state capitalism of the worst kind. Remember that Mussolini defined fascism as state capitalism, he should know best since he was the inventor.
Italian fascists also started as peasant/worker movement, Hitler’s party was named national-*socialist* etc.
No country ever had real communism. And the term means BEFORE the usurpation of the movement through well-known british/american agents Lenin, Trotzky and co. The only country where there was at least a hint of communism was Yugoslavia (for a short time after WW2), which was never part of the Warszaw treaty and even almost had a war with Russia in the 50’s. But that system didn’t last long either and was also far from perfect.
What are you discussing here comrade–communism vs. Nazism or Stalin’s dictatorship vs. Nazism.. Regardless of which one you are comporting Nazism comes out as a disgusting human failure
Nationalism is a type of psychosis, in this case it should be called “Ukieosis”, which is a condition of self-hatred. Post-Soviet Ukraine was murdered at the Maidan last year and now is splintering uncontrollably into many pieces. I wonder how the devil got into their minds? Blue and yellow flags and tridents everywhere. The tax collector cannot be far behind.
Nikolai:
Nationalism is no more a psychosis than is love of one’s own family above other families.
A true nation is simply an extremely extended and simultaneously inbred group of people. It just as logical to have more attachment towards ones own nation before other nations than it is to have more attachment to ones children, spouse, cousins, grandparents, etc.
The psychosis comes from making one’s love of ones own people or family something that becomes detrimental to others.
The devil got into their minds with $5 billion dollars, various demonic agents, weapons and training, a bunch of cookies, and probably some drugs.
All of that you mentioned.The most important being the “propaganda” portion.The root cause in creating this new younger generation of fascists is the education and media propaganda that has infected Ukrainian youth since 1991 (and a little before,in the late 80’s).It is those age groups that staff the Right Sector and other fascist groups there.The Empire spend a lot of money “buying” the media and producing anti-Russian pro-fascist propaganda over those years.It is going to take a complete purging of that from Ukraine at liberation.A whole new truthful historical education program.And the purging of all the Western bought media in Ukraine to cure the infection before they infect the next generation as well.
Well said, Saker. Love and compassion are the foundations for keeping the darkness at bay.
If the foundation is poorly laid then all construction effort will fail.
Foundations need to be built upon.This building process is guided mostly by the states we live in, and the State is represented by those in office. Process of building somehow always end up being corrupted and we go back to foundations. But foundation gets damaged with each failed attempt at building.
So, problem of building need to be addressed.
How to properly end a civil war in a manner to, at least delay another? What measures to be taken?
Punishment is a must, but a line need to be drawn. At maximum penalty,prison sentences and amnesty. Not all are willing participants. Even though they had a choice.
Education. Rooting out existing revisionism and vigorous watch for any future attempts. Teaching people how to think,not just making drones out of them.
Forcing the unity narrative. Absolutely wrong way. Unity must come from individual himself. Any forcing is wrong. But a law must be obeyed.
In the end we see that building of a state(s) after the civil war is a very perilous process.
I refrained myself from mentioning negative influences. Because these are out of our hands. Darkness exist and it will try to usurp the building process. It is the nature of it. Destroy,usurp,corrupt but never to create.
Whoever wants war,may he find it in his home.
Besides the strong support in Donetsk and Lugansk for those fighting the junta.There are people all over the other regions of the former Ukraine that oppose them.I don’t think we can gauge the true levels of support for the junta overall,because of the oppression in Ukraine.But if we can guess from the pre-coup figures in the Southeast,80% opposed the junta.
I doubt that has changed.What has changed is people’s ability to show it.As for the Center and West,the junta has more support.Maybe even the majority,at present.But with their fall much of that would evaporate.And as was posted in the past,we will see many people “remember” how really they opposed them all along.
The defeat of the junta,would allow all the pent-up dislike of them and the Bandera to come to the surface.The end of anti-Russian 24/7 propaganda in Ukraine.And a re-education campaign would bring back the natural feelings of Rus unity in the land.At least in Malorus and Novorossia.The regions most Russian in history.
It might be that parts of West Ukraine would never recover their kinship in the common Rus family.And that would be a shame,but it might just have to be that way.Though it is possible that they too,with the economic benefits showing through unity,and with re-education cutting through the Russophobic lies they’ve been fed for years might rejoin the Rus peoples as well.That is still to be seen.
Secret Record Revealed In Austrian Court- Yanukovich Pressured Into Union With Eu By Nuland, Threat To Imprison Firtash.
The wicked witch strikes again – http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article41763.htm
Very interesting article. If true Firtash needs to ask for asylum in Russia (or somewhere,anywhere, out of reach of the US).He knows too much for them to not want him silent.There is a link on that article to another article that might explain part of the US’s interest in him as well. Its about his Titanium holdings in the former Ukraine that they might be after.
As a side note those Titanium deposits,like much of the mineral wealth in the former Ukraine is in Novorossia.
http://johnhelmer.net/?p=11371
This is how people without a soul can be pushed to act. What a person their soul with them can experience as grief and as a transformation through grieving for what’s lost, someone alone from their soul can only take as a literal death. Their wish for a transformation becomes a death urge, which they try to do to others for the fear of dying themselves. I wonder if there may be enough adults and culture strong enough to instruct these not-yet-persons without identity and souls lost that their fight is about saving and bringing back their soul, to be able to live as mortal humans with intactness, so instead they think this is about power and that you “win” by killing. Hopefully the Russian soul and the soul of the land are big enough to help.
Another documentary about Odessa:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuJavr1xvBc
I sould say several things about it.
First be warned that it contains disturbing images(burnt bodies, people jumping from the building…)!
Second: Unfortunately it is in Bulgarian and I cannot find any version with English subtitles. I am not sure how much of the people who understand Russian can understand Bulgarian to a reasonable extent, still I think it is a very well done documentary and it is worth sharing even if a limited number of people could understand the language.
About the documentary. I’ve been thinking of sharing it with you for a few days now. It was created by Bulgarian(actually she is half Bulgarian and half Russian) journalist Elena Yoncheva, who over the years has covered numerous conflincts throughout the globe.
It starts with the Maidan and ends after the Odessa events. I was actually shocked that it made it to being aired on national TV, since it seriously chalenges the official government stance here in Bulgaria. That is the second reason I wanted to share it, because it is significant, that there is still resistance to the pathological propaganda.
Lastly I want to appologize for the overly long post. I hope it will be useful.
Cheers to all
A lot of interviews, with locals, real people, not “experts”. From the little I can make out, it should be fairly accessible for Russian listeners.
What a beautiful article, The Saker.
If only people could see it the way you do, it might save the Ukraine.
It really is a choice between the Light and the Dark, just as it is for the Israelis and the Americans. War depends on the demon ‘Other’ as the architects know only too well.
The hate in the young people – who should be full of idealism and ideas – is, I believe, related to drug use, especially coke. Couple this ‘euphoria’ with a (mindless) ’cause’ and you have murderous mayhem..
On a more positive note, the recent attacks by the UAF on the Right Sector battalions – observed with ‘astonishment’ by the Donbass militia – suggests a hardening revulsion for fascism. Even if the orders came from Kiev – Poroschenko is terrified of Yarosh, and with good reason – I doubt the attack was motivated by any desire to protect the president: they haven’t forgotten the D’so cauldron.
Most of the Minsk violations have been by the volunteer battalions, not the UAF.
My ‘dream’ is to see the militias and UAF take back their country and re-set the Ukraine as a federation, with beautiful Kiev as the crowning jewel. They have a template in the RF and no doubt many able and willing advisors – Lavrov in particular – to help.
Both the UAF and militias have common cause in ridding the country of oligarch-blight, now in the process of selling the Ukraine off to transnational corporations.
Aim to reclaim seems like a good slogan to me.
Eimar, in this clip on vox-populi-evo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M51HOM97olQ
Alexander Zakharchenko answers a question:
“What about the people in Odessa?”
“When they call for us we will help them!”
->>>To Lvov->>>
@All In Good Time:
Great link, thanks! Really happy to see Zak tired, but lucid and determined.
And your handle is great too!;)
I don’t know how long ago this is from, but if recent it looks like he has not been staying off his injured leg, and he is as much tired but in pain from it. A few months after I broke my shin (age 19) I went to an IEEE trade show and walked around on it all day, and ended up in a lot of pain as it bent under the strain since the bone was still soft. He’d probably be better using a crutch or two instead of a cane — keep the weight off more.
But thinking isn’t much affected, and it is up to the people in the cities to initiate actions before the troops muster to help. ‘When the students are ready the muster appears!’
In the meantime, however, Donbas troops should be taking out the bombarding artillery — which seems to be mostly the Nazis, and maybe Porosenko is hoping that will help his situation.
Zakharchenko also recently called on all Ukraine, but specifically naming several nearby regions such as Kharkov, that they may join Novorossiya anytime they want, just say the word. Sort of like calling for membership in a new club. But in reality, calling to join in overthrowing the oligarchs, join in standing on their own feet. Sating we are on the same side, we are not enemies with you.
And that’s how it must go, if they ever join again. It would be Ukraine joining Novorossiya, not the other way around. Novorossiya doesn’t mind other people, other languages, they help them celebrate their own anniversaries and are proud to have them living there (eg Greeks, Armenians). .
But Russia could be in a similar predicament if things had gone a bit differently. Russia had a functioning KGB with an officer corps to try to hold things together. And Russia had more logical borders. The Ukraine had the same oligarchs and no national purpose or really anything. So the thieves in charge used the ideology of Ukrainianism. Makes perfect sense. And the West brought gasoline to the fire.
So are these Ukrainians that different from the opposition in Russia? They are angry that they don’t have what people in France or Germany have – but many of them don’t really know that much about the West in the first place. It is just a dream. And then there are those who are merely degenerate and think they can have more fun in the West.
Also, the young in the Donbass, Odessa, and Kharkov are also full of those who hate Russia. It is simply brainwashing, and their big brother in Russia watched and did nothing.
Can I say “I feel Your pain” free after Clinton without a smirk?
Prolly naaah…but for what it’s worth…
I have one thing to add. One thing, wearing many faces, colors, shapes through the times ours and our fathers. One thing.
Take Maidan.
What started as a righteous uprising against the system of oligarchy – supported by the “people”, of which I am part, I contend – went berserk and eating it’s own tail, financed by the same oligarchy “it aimed to destroy”…:)…Let me point out one thing: these oligarchs are jewz – MAINLY.
For the neocon crazies, who nurses & mediates the kindling of ongoing genocide WORLDWIDE in all the spheres of it’s influence – jews again in overwhelming proportions, and – quoting Uljanov, an other kike – their useful idiots.
I could anal-ize, quote, reason, argue, but what is the point? You ALL know the score. ALL of You, the facts are @ Your fingertips. One can bring a horse to the water…
You do not need to count all the feathers on a duck to find out if it qualifies.
I AM a self confessed National Socialist. Tha funny word overused for it nowadayz is for it Nazi. I AM also what is described as racist. Yes, I do prefer the company of my racial brethren. We are a colorful and diverse people.
And Yes, I am a Russian/Hungarian mongrel nazi racist for Putin, who lived all across the angloshpere, who, if God provides, would like sometime to visit distant and diverse parts of our planet. Visit. I’d like them to stay diverse, and do not want to see the golden arches of anything there anytime in my lifetime.
oh..,.
Back to the ONE thing: it is the jewz, stupid.
Want to know what is going on?
Re-read the endgame section in the learned elders of zion, and see if what Ford said about it still fits. Then read the Foundation trilogy from jew Asimov. There You got Your road-map which supposed to get You mosey up back to the coral…:)
As such. I will now throw down this pen, and with wary heart pick up the AK 47/74…
14 words. One thing.
Russia – the center of the UNI-verse!
FALSE jews, you mean. Mostly aryan, blonde, blue-eyed mid-east-european jesuits and freemasons.
By the way, I think you’re at the wrong site here. Try rense or MOA or some other similar nazi infestation, where people know nothing and can swallow any sort of stupid propaganda. We’ve been past that red herring long ago here, bar a few hardliner idiots.
Oh and your elders of zion novel was written by a french jesuit, which is well-known in informed circles.
That is what zombification is. I think Strelkov is right when he says that Ukrainian TV uses NLP technique. They have Russian father and mother, barely or even don’t speak Ukrainian (artificial language) at all, yet they hate Russians, use derogative terms towards them etc. Kiev is a Russian city, where 90% people speak Russian in their everyday life. Whole Ukrainian army speaks only Russian. When officials from Kiev tried to speak Ukrainian before them, soldiers simply didn’t understand, so they had to switch to Russian. Even top Ukrainian politicians and many journalists speak primitive Ukrainian. When you see them, it’s obvious how hard for them to think in Russian and then translate everything to Ukrainian.
Ukraine is an artificial nation with artificial language and fake history created by the West with only one purpose – to divide Russia.
This map shows how Ukraine in todays borders was created.
I’m reminded by the one liner:
Hatred is like taking poison and expecting the other person to die.
Ukrainians have existed for a long time. But Ukraine has not. Today’s Ukraine is a sorry mess of borderlands swept into one state, to act as the buffer for all its previous masters. This clearly is not working.
First please look at this map, indicating when today’s bits and pieces got added.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Simplified_historical_map_of_Ukrainian_borders_1654-2014.jpg
Another version of this has been overlaid with who they voted for in 2010 — very clearly showing they’re not thinking the same.
http://observationalism.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Ukraine_historical_vs_electoral_2010.png
Then use one of these to locate the historic old sections,. which this article neatly and briefly explains — where the actual people came from, what they called themselves, who their masters were if any. Sadly not all have dates on them but it still gives a good idea how the territory got chopped and changed over the centuries.
http://reconsideringrussia.org/2014/05/15/historical-geography-of-ukraine/
And indeed many/most of what we today call Novorossiya and Donbass were never Ukrainians. They were Russians. However, they are living on the same land they’ve “always” lived on, so they have every right to be there. It’s just that their land, with them on it,. got swept into the Ukraine conglomeration
The people of the west are trying to force their view of “being Ukrainian” onto a lot of people who never were (themselves included but this the first time in centuries that they’re in an independent country to call their own…. to they want to MAKE it their own, in their own image.). We can’t expect these to be, or to like, Russians, as they never were.
Another couple of interesting maps. First is languages of Ukraine from Kiev National Linguistic University
Second link is 2010 election results.
http://newcoldwar.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Languages-of-Ukraine.png
http://gondwanaland.com/mlog/files/500px-Ukraine_ElectionsMap_Nov2004.png
The language map is excellent. I know that study. It was based on thousands of interviews, the researcher marking the degree of departure from full Ukrainian or Russian. It is quite different from self-reported language maps, some of which show huge variation in very short time periods, clearly depending on how the question was asked (first language? native language? language spoken at home?) and political considerations.
I’ve seen videos where the reporter asks in Russian and the people reply in Ukrainian. And others where the NAF fighters switch to Ukrainian amongst themselves. There are many mixed marriages, so how do they answer “language spoken at home”?
A more accurate Russian/Ukrainian language map can be seen here based on useage on the internet on vKontakte.
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-ukraine-russia-cyber-war-is-heating-up-2014-3
Kat Kan:
Ukrainians have existed for a long time. But Ukraine has not.
That is completely backwards. “Ukraine” existed for a long time as the name of the border region of Russia (Ukraine = Borderland) with the Kingdom of Poland. It is the same name as the portion of the Austrian Empire Military Frontier Province of “Krajina” in modern Croatia. Ukrainians as an ethnonym were invented around 1914. The people before that called themselves Russkij (Rusyn = Russian) or Kazak (Cossack).
And indeed many/most of what we today call Novorossiya and Donbass were never Ukrainians.
In the Russian Empire Census of 1897, most of the population of Novorossiya was noted as speaking “Malorussian”, not “Great Russian”. In Yekaterinoslav and Kharkov Provinces (modern Dnipropetrovsk and Donetsk and Kharkov Oblasts), the ratio was 4:1 in favor of “Malorussians”, in Kherson Province and Odessa city together (modern Odessa and Kherson Oblasts), the ratio was 2:1. Only the cities themselves were majority Russian speaking.
Did you see my maps?
There were assorted borders and assorted territories with various names at different times. And of course people of various ans mixed ethnic origin and even more mixed language and wholesale moving around of people. And different rulers and new names for the same areas. I would not expect anything less in a borderland.
People may be different ethnic origin than the language they speak. Typically the new arrivals would be the ones to adopt the language of the (more numerous) locals. Later they might also adopt the cultural history (eg German origin Polish nobility or Finnish origin Russians). Everyone is mixed, anyway.
You are right that a “Ukraine” existed. Was it the same area as today? no. Same people? no. New people were added. Several times. Outsiders at least called them Ukrainian, internally they thought of themselves as various other things. Many, not all, spoke a dialect of Russian, increasingly mixed with other languages as you move west, to where they had regular contact/rulers with other languages. Today they are trying to meld all this into a common identity, minus the very Russian part, as that has been chosen as the anti-Ukraine, the “what we are NOT”.
Kat Kan:
Yes I saw the maps. They aren’t accurate. The idea of a state province of Ukraine comes from the German General Staff in WWI. Lenin formalized this within the USSR after the conquest of Ukraine from the White Army and the repulse of the Polish invasion (mostly). There was no Ukraine in 1654 nor was there any province of that sort in the Russian Empire.
Most of the new arrivals to Novorossiya who went to the new cities were majority Great Russian speaking. The Malorussian speaking countryside, with a smattering of other ethnicities, represents the native people to the land and the movement of nearby Malorussians and Cossacks from up the Dnipr and Dnistr Rivers down river towards the coast as the farmlands were secured by the Imperial Army. Great Russian speaking farming settlers at that time tended towards moving into the Don and Kuban and east into Siberia, and not into Novorossiya. Its simpler to colonize new farming settlements closer to the origin colony.
There was less of a difference between Malorussian and Great Russian at that time, as so many Polish loanwords had not been inserted into the language as of yet to create Ukrainian. Malorussian was much closer to what is today Surzhyk. The predominance of Russian in Novorossiya today (80-95% useage) comes from the imposition of standardized modern Russian through schooling and media on what was essentially a dialect. It is no different than what happened to Low German in Germany or the the south italian dialects in Italy. People speak their dialect informally and otherwise use the standardized form of the language in reading, writing, and formal contacts. This accounts for the Ukrainian Catholic Church only adopting modern Ukrainian language in 1960.
Kat Kan
Why don’t you write your own blog?
You obviously have a ‘wealth’ of information that you like to ‘share’ with others in a rather superior tone.
Perhaps the UkroNazis are Hungry Ghosts?
From Wikipedia (edited for brevity)
Hungry ghost is a concept in Chinese Buddhism representing beings who are driven by intense emotional needs in an animalistic way.
Hungry Ghosts are often depicted as emaciated human beings with bulging stomachs and inhumanly small mouths and throats. Eating is painful and no matter how much they eat, they are always hungry even when their bellies are full.
I have no idea if in the mythology, there is a way out of the abyss for Hungry Ghosts.
Jung would probably explain it as an archetype from the racial unconscious, in this case, a folk memory of famine. The bulging belly is a sign of malnutrition. The tiny mouths represent the danger of consuming food in the advanced stage of malnutrition, with the cure becoming the killer.
The Chinese who believe in them are both fearful (of the ghosts hunger) and empathetic to their plight.
The ambivalence makes sense to me.
re: realm of the hungry ghost is a realm of addiction and compulsive-obsessive psychological state. I have friends who, overweight, will eat a full meal and then be stuffing with junk food one or two hours later. Being afraid to be human –to feel fully the pain in the heart center of compassion or grief–is the root of it. Food that does not nourish? That is the food product that is devel0ped in the USA to stimulate something called “the bliss point” and to keep people hungry for more and more and yet more.
Same goes for drugs : I watched a young man on Christmas Day abuse and lose his family ( wife and little girl) —high on oxycotin he was. Hungry ghost . Inability to be intimate with others makes for a psychotic culture which can kill others and rationalize it all away if people even bother to think through their hungry ghost haze.
The ambivalence of the Chinese is fascinating. There’s a great line in the film Excalibur when King Arthur (in his period of rule when famine, war, and pestilence ravage his kingdom) describes how he feels:
“I cannot live, and I cannot die”.
(Mordred eventually solved that little problem for him)
one can only outwardly hate something with such vituperate bitterness if one first hates oneself, it is a projection outward, away from the self which couldn’t cope if such enormous self loathing where to be acknowledged. It is also this self hatred which allows them to become such easy prey to the US and NATO, westerners who deep down inside feel the same self loathing and practice this loathing on their own peoples by persecuting them with austerity. No sane, caring, compassionate structure could ever treat its people the way that western capitalism treats its own, especially the poor, the sick, the disabled and the old. A vacuum where love has no place, the Ukronazis simply recognise ‘self’ in the seething hatred of the US &NATO – uncompassionate, naked greed, lust for money, material possession and personal status to shore up the shoddy, amoral, empty center, vacant of any belief. The moral crisis of the west is not that it believes in the wrong things but that it believes in nothing. Perhaps for the Ukronazis it is better to believe a lie.
A beautiful article by the way.
Well put!
Also congratulations to LB for the one liner:
“Hatred is like taking poison and expecting the other person to die”
These hatreds have been nurtured and fostered by the US and Canada since operation ‘paper clip’.
The surviving Banderistas used against the soviet ‘ally’, fed clothed and equipped by the US,never put on trial for war crimes in west ukraine and finally taken back to Canada and the US for later use.
Their descendants we see today perpetrating attrocities with the full connivance of the other ‘allies’,just as complicit now as they were in the 30’s with Hitler.
Hopefully they will be eradicated this time around, because they will never admit that they are wrong.
In the end it comes down to how children are raised. Read Alice Miller, Lloyd deMause, Arthur SIlber, Carl Rogers, John Bradshaw…
When children are raised so as to make them crazy, then we get crazy adults.
Nobody else will do it, least of all the EU or US, if only because they themselves suffer a sharp deficit of love or compassion. LOL excellent summary.
It’s hard to hate “Ukrainians”… Just like its hard to hate a moth flying into the fire, simply because its instinct is to love that fire which will kill it. Brainwashed by years of education, one looks at West Ukraine’s education and all one can feel is pity…
In times like this, I want to remember my Ukrainian grandpa, who in 1930-s ran away from his native Khmelnitsky region to Urals before they could get him and his family by force. These were not some “Russians” who wanted his (the only one in the village) stone house and job of a principal in the local school. These were his neighbors.
He volunteered on the first day the war started, while he didn’t have to: as a Math and Physics teacher he had a deferment. I remember talking to him during Perestroika, and asking him: why did you volunteer to defend the country where you had to run and hide for your life? You must have had so much resentment towards Soviet government. I though, grandpa was stupid. Well, it was me, who was brainwashed by the Perestroika propaganda.
Another thing, that I could not understand, was him saying that “at the front, Hohly were the worst traitors”. How could he say that? He was 100% Ukrainian, who spoke the language perfectly, read Lesya Ukrainka and Shevchenko, and would sing Ukrainian folk songs at every party after a glass of horylka.I can clearly see now what he meant. I never been so close in my life to understanding my grandfather’s life as I am now after the events of the past year.
Another point I want to make is that I came to understand that the only reason we could have the WWII replay in Ukraine is that it was never properly de-Nazified after the war, like Germany was. The Soviets glossed over the Baderite atrocities. From what I was taught in school, it was all Germans’ fault: not Romanians’, who occupied and committed atrocities in the region where I am from, not Banderite ukronazis’. We would only hear some stories from the old people who lived through it. Officially, we were all brothers and sisters, at least, that is what we thought. Evidently, the other side never got over their hatred. Silly me, while here in US, I made friends with some of the children of those who left with the Germans, because they “were afraid of the Red army” (wonder, why?). I thought, this is the new generation, they know better. Now my former friends are on the forefront of stoking hatred towards the “Russians”.
Until the shameful past is discussed and condemned by the whole nation, Ukraine is destined to continue its decline.
This is interesting what You say, but let me get it crystal clear – because it WILL get down to it – Do You personally prefer a UKR allied to Russ or NATO?
Are You prepared to work in factories making war supplies against Your own White People be they slavs or slavs?
Me, being a Nacional Socialist, can…@ this point do not such a thing.
I abhor the fratricide going on in Novorussia, On both sides. I weep for the Ukrainian losses as well…f**k!!!!!
Yet….
Maybe war is the only way way for a community to express it’s sovereignty .
I would like to be a part of such peoples – be they Ukrainian or Russian(who in my mind are the same, since I am one of them).
I am HORRIBLY, DETERMINATELY and ENDLESSLY ASHAMED of the Pravy Sector..
They are named Nazis.
Well, they are not .
I claim to be one and my principles are:
I stand for my family
I stand for my town
I stand for my county
I stand for my people – which – before mass immigration – stood – race.
Person to person today.
We ARE a tribe. Practice it!
NOW!
…and feel no shame. We have jus started to play a game we are not even included in…
Bloody game it is…but it i not true, that we have just made members, Made a mistake.
WW I
WWII
Sort of kind…fratricidal, profitable, displacement of a sort.
Cui bono?
Hi there,
I hope that this is satire, but these days it’s hard to tell…
So just in case:
You say: “Are You prepared to work in factories making war supplies against Your own White People be they slavs or slavs?”
Are you seriously a Russian nazi, who is sorry for the Ukrainian nazis for not having realised that they direct their hatred in the wrong direction? Like: “Burning people alive for fun is a great pastime, but please do not burn white people and or slavs or slavs.”
I am not kidding, please tell me.
And if you are serious, can you please tell me what being a national socialist exactly means for you?
However, I think the actual questions is: “Are You prepared to work in factories making war supplies?” PERIOD
And the wider question is: “Are you prepared to believe that there is such a thing as war?”
Not like in: “Most people say there is civil war in Ukraine and martial law might be declared.”
More like: “He caught me off-guard. I might have been a little hang-over. He turned the corner at the wrong time and startled me. I shot him right in the face… He was fourteen, unarmed, on his way to school… … But you see, it was war!”
Or like: “Why? … Well, we just drop the bombs where they tell us to. … Ok … A children’s hospital you say? … Yeah… we didn’t know that. … … There must have been something going on, otherwise they would not have told us to drop bombs there… … … No, flying at this altitude at these speeds you cannot really tell what’s going on. We just drop the bombs… … I mean all I do is push a button at the right time. It’s not my fault, I didn’t kill them on purpose! We had no choice. You cannot save everyone. This is war.”
Or even: “It was a fair battle, we all came out shooting. They all came out shooting. Some made it, some did not. I made it and somehow we won… I did not want to kill them, but this is war…”
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS WAR BEFORE GOD!
There is only interaction between individual human beings. Armed with reason and bound by conscience.
The idea of war is a parasitic, virulent and infectious insanity.
Please rid yourself of it, if only for your own sake.
In the United States we are familiar with the same pathology in the form of the Ku Klux Klan. It preys on the vulnerability of young white people who have low incomes, poor prospects, poor education, low self-esteem, etc. Some supposedly “authoritative” person comes along and tells them it’s all the fault of the black people, a white man can hardly get ahead because the *n-words”* are getting (imaginary) privileges. Even baser impulses come into play. The propertied classes are behind it, in order to keep the oppressed divided among themselves.
“There is nothing new under the sun.”
Banderite fervor of the kind described in this article and illustrated in the picture, is a tribute to the enormous advances made by the science of mind control/manipulation in the last 100 years or so. It is possible that no other science has advanced so much in this period. Things in this respect will only get worse. Children who grow up literally glued to iphones, ipods and so on from a tender age will be a new kind of humans.
I often think the whole human species may very well be some kind of ludic experiment by a very clever but also sadistic demi-god, one whom I would like to great with a kick in the balls. This bastard Experimenter has given the subjects of his experiment the ability to experiment also on themselves through the science of mind control, a mise-en abime kind of feature that amuses him greatly.
Aside from all that, the deliberate chaos and terror of the current Banderite mind control experiment was greatly helped by the remarkable incompetence of Soviet leaders in configuring this former Republic, especially Khrushchev, as well as the remarkable imbecility of the Gorbachev/Yeltsin duo in allowing the totally artificial boundaries of that Republic to be the basis for the formation of a new country, leaving the entire Novorussia area in the company of banderites that had been nurtured by the US since the end of WW2.
In no way would I defend Yeltsin.I think he was a total disaster (most every Russian I’ve heard says the same).But when Ukraine got independence I remember reading he said the borders needed to be amended to give the Russian speaking regions the chance to rejoin Russia if they wanted to.And his Western masters came down on him over that, so he changed his mind and let Ukraine keep those regions.Another horrible mistake as we see today.
Lol check this finnish guy seems to be on a crusade against anything Russia, hes sounds completely brainwashed. Scary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv1GBArE3dE
He sounds like he’s drunk or on drugs to me. Got through about 1/2 of it and lost all ability to focus on the video — I got distracted by my breathing and the sound of the grass growing outside.
The alternative view is explained by Oleg Matveychev as Ukrainians and Russians are basically from and in the same world, but oligarchy has poisoned the Ukraine more than Russia.
“This category is, alas, quite numerous and clustered around the oligarchs who appropriated the national wealth in the course of predatory privatization, which, thanks to the rich in these twenty years, and now want to bring all the people are ready for the start of the European “democracy,” only to West closed its eyes to the way it was received their wealth, recognized their own. And to facilitate the task of the people is best divided into hostile groups and leads to the west part, devoid of national consciousness.
Ukrainian and Russian oligarchs are not on opposite sides, common interests are much greater than the differences. The only problem is that the Russian authorities of their half-hearted and social support they have; In Ukraine, they have twenty years in power and hold in their hands powerful instruments of mass brainwashing.
Our common national task patriots of Russia is not in the “gathering lands” in the primitive interpretation, and in the “gathering of the people” for the common struggle against the oligarchic system, with all its attendant phenomena of the system: corruption, the loss of traditional values and national betrayal. This fight is not for the Crimea, not at the New Russia, but for the entire Ukrainian people.”
http://matveychev-oleg.livejournal.com/2194672.html
If everyone in that movie speaks Russian, and no one at all ever speaks Ukrainian, then haunting thought occurs,—could this Odessa massacre have another “false flag” operation, just to stir up
the hornets’ nest so to speak,—and the perpetrators might be not really Ukrainians?
We recall that earlier, Strelkov himself confessed that he was instrumental in triggering the armed
conflict in the Donbass, and otherwise, but for his and his groups’ interference, everything would have likely calmed down.
We get the impression that the Novorussians are essentially neo-stalinists and neo-monarchists whose “heroes” are Ivan the Terrible with his rule of rampage and Josef Stalin with his similar rule
of terror and mass murder,—so their objective, and the objective of those oligarchs behind them,
is to revise the laws in Russia so as to create, eventually, a North Korean type society with a kind
of “royal dynasty” on top, then a kind of “aristocracy”, and the common rank and file people would be just like in North Korea,—very strictly controlled, regulated and impoverished “serfs”.
Their eventual objective would be to oust Putin & Co. as still not strict enough, not controlling enough.—Ultimate question: Are neo-stalinism and/or neo-monarchism the indispensable components of this so-called “Russian world” that is being hailed here?—One cannot help notice the subtle and not so subtle approval and praise for Stalin even on this website.—Regardless
of Stalin’s leadership “genius” like sacrificing the lives of millions of his own subjects, or killing off his seasoned military officers as part of “preparing” for the war with Germany, or his intent, no doubt, if he could get his hands on the “capitalist class” or “upper classes” of France, Germany, Italy, Britain, America, to just do to them what was done to the tsar and his family, and do to all the clergy what was done to the clergy in Russia.
Anonymous, have you only just started to follow this issue?
About 95% of people in Ukraine speak Russian. All schools taught it. Most business is done in Russian. So is university education. Ukraine was in the Soviet Union until 23 yea4rs ago and still did most of its business with Russia until llast year and several million Ukrainians work in Russia. They SPEAK RUSSIAN as their everyday language. Some of the wildest pro-Ukraine anti-Russia politicians can NOT SPEAK UKRAINIAN. . Forget silly false flag theories.
Strelkov big-notes himself, likes to think he’s the “father of the revolution” or something. Several thousand armed people were already fighting in several cities when he came on the scene, he just organised them a bit..
“…We get the impression that the Novorussians are essentially neo-stalinists and neo-monarchists whose “heroes” are Ivan the Terrible with his rule of rampage and Josef Stalin with his similar rule…,” you are definitely on another planet with that one. They have order, peace, fairness and justice in their own territories, which they are rebuilding from scratch. They are fighting AGAINST the rampaging of the neo-Nazis and against being genocided by what was their own government.
They have ZERO to do with society or government inside Russia, which happens to be a different and separate country. Look at a map sometime. They certainly don’t plan to oust Putin, who is being a good friend to them.
“…One cannot help notice the subtle and not so subtle approval and praise for Stalin even on this website…” Unlike you, we do not see the world in black and white. Stalin did a lot of very bad things, and Stalin killed a lot of people, true. A LOT. He also managed to win a huge war, in which Germany was openly trying to invade and occupy Russia. Many of the Novorossiyans (and other Ukrainians) lost grandfathers in that war and are rightfully proud of their achievement in winning that war.
Nobody wants Stalin or anyone like him back again. That is one reason the Donbass/Novorossiya people are fighting the Ukrainian government, which is openly intent on killing them all, just to free up the land they’ve lived on for hundreds of years.
But everyone there sees the Soviet times as creating the base for their present wellbeing (or chances for it) by industrializing Russia and Ukraine. And everyone knows how much worse off they were when the Soviet system broke down. Back then they sometimes had to queue for things, because they were rationed. After, they could not afford to have children. At all. Births dropped by more than half for ten years. Family-loving people have to be VERY desperate to choose to not have children.
Don’t come back to post nonsense again, please. Find out a few facts, and don’t express opinions on things you clearly know nothing about.
Well, as I recall, in this Novorussia, there was a rash of assassinations and attempts at assassination, like even involving Mozgovoy. Of course, then came a rash of suspicious suicides
in Ukraine itself.—It goes to show that war produces government by rage and terror, everywhere,
so now Ukraine is veering toward stalinism [here meaning, paranoid deadly purges in the ranks of one’s own side], and Novorussia was probably stalinist from the start.
Who really benefits? Neither side. This is the dumbest war of the 21st century thus far, what has been going on in the Donbass area.
“Well, as I recall, in this Novorussia”
You truly are a total know nothing!… a wiseacre!
We are just 10 days away from the 2014 referendum on statehood, for the peoples Republics of Donetsk and Lughansk,collectively known as Novorossiya.
A secession from a totalitarian fascist led coup,promoted by the USA.
Funded by USAID,George Soros ‘Open Society Foundation’ and backstopped by the US state dept. and the US congress.
Vicky ‘Cookies’ Nuland with the assistance of US ambassador Geofrey Pyatt now rule in Kiev.
Please read a years archive before returning to irritate the grown-ups,
@Anonymous.
I don’t know if you are a troll or just someone with a comprehension problem. Maybe there’s no real difference?
Kat Kan gave you a clear precis of the situation in Novorossiya and why it arose. If it wasn’t for the fact that the oblasts were initially part of the ‘Ukraine’, the plight of the Novorossiyans would be politically identical to the Palestinians.
A state that turns rogue, to the point of setting out to deliberately depopulate one of it’s regions has relinquished any pretension to sovereign legitimacy.
If you lived in a nation whose democratically-elected, if flawed government was overthrown by foreign-funded violence, and a junta installed would you sit idly by? Would you not fight for your survival?
Perhaps you wouldn’t. But just because you would be content to be dispossessed/enslaved/eliminated doesn’t mean that others would.
Which is why, unless the junta backs off, they will face the consequences.
I don’t think you will ever understand the way regular posters view the situation on this site: there are others which would probably make more sense to you.
Try the Guardian.
Many in the West forget one of the cardinal maxims for a free society ” A government legally exists,only by the “consent” of the governed”.The junta never had that “consent” in the Novorossian regions.And certainly they don’t have it today.If as Westerners we believe in our own maxims,we need to support Novorossia.
Much keeps being said that the modern Ukrainian language is “artificial” and “invented”,
and some persons really seem to be foaming at the mouth over this issue.
Pray tell,—so where from and how did the modern Russian language appear?
Who were the original speakers of the original modern Russian language?
Frankly, we recall reading that the modern Russian language was largely the invention
of the writer and poet Pushkin. Or at best, it was presumably the language spoken in some
limited region around Moscow, or maybe St. Petersburg. And it got imposed everywhere by imperial fiat and central imperial support. Yet that is not “artificial” and “invented”?
Well, nowadays, what you have over there is overwhelming pressure from the English language
so that you have “Ukrenglish” and “Russenglish” spoken and written.
By the way,—standing up for the Ukrainian language should not mean “hating” the modern Russian language. The only big flaw in the modern Russian language is that its names for calendar months
are not Slavonic-origin as they are in Ukrainian but are rather a kind of mangled Latin names.
We stand for Slavicizing as much as possible. Avoidance of the “Ukrenglish” and “Russenglish”
deviations, where English words are slavishly adopted. “Ukrenglish” and “Russenglish” just like
“Spanglish” cannot be the basis for any serious literature or articles of science, theology, philosophy.
But neither the Ukrainian nor the Belarussian languages should be reduced to the current plight of the Irish Gaelic, Scottish Gaelic, Welsh and other Keltic languages, which due to persecution and suppression by oppressor cultures in the 1700’s and 1800’s are now marginal minority
languages with a dubious prospect for long-term survival.—The same holds true, it looks like,
for the Belarussian language.
You say “,,,We stand for Slavicizing …” Who is “we” ??? or do you always speak in the plural?
The names of the months in Ukrainian are POLISH names.
What is your source to say that the Ukrainian calendar names are “Polish”?
These names [in Latin script] are sichen-January, liutyi-February, berezen-March, kviten-April,
traven-May, cherven-June, lypen-July, serpen-August, veresen-September, zhovten-October,
lystopad-November, hruden-December. —The Belarussian language also uses indigenous
Slavonic calendar names, which are not the same as Ukrainian [and presumably “not Polish”].
I do not know the exact forms for the Polish names. But you know, just because a name or word
is “similar to” does not mean it is “derived from”. For instance, in Ukrainian there are two ways
to say “thank you”. One is “spasybih” which is similar to the Russian as I understand, but is it
derived from? It means “God save you”. The other way is “diakuyu” which is similar to the English
“thanks” or German “danke” or Polish “dzienkuie”. So is the Ukrainian form now from English?
Or German? Or Polish? You see the similarities but also differences. All these languages are
actually related, being from the so-called Indo-Aryan group, and I think the linguists actually place
all the Slavic languages into the so-called “satem group” that includes Iranian, or Farsi.
—And yes we sometimes speak in the plural just for better style. But we aren’t pregnant!
“We” is not better style. “We” implies you are speaking for a number of other people. In that case it is useful to specify who you are speaking for. Otherwise if giving your own opinion please use the singular.
Where did you read Pushkin invented the Russian language? what did people outside of “Moscow or maybe St Petersburg” speak before that?
It actually took a very long time before Pushkin was accepted as a great writer. That’s because he wrote in Russian and no one understood it until they first learned Russian — there needed to be a whole program for it set up in schools so the children could read him — like how they have Latin courses so kids can read the great classic Winny Ille Pooh.
‘We” must refer to the royal we, or a wee mouse in his pocket. Or the others in the trolling room, or his multiple accounts set up by the D.O.D. It could not be a grammatical mistake since it’s already established the author is a leading expert in linguistics.
Someday people will also learn a standardize Ukrainian as soon as the great poems in get around more, such as
twas brillig, n da slithy toves
Did gyre n gimble in da wabe:
All mimsy were da borogoves,
N da mome raths outgrabe.
In Polish they would be close enough:
Styczeń
Luty
Marzec,
Kwiecień,
Maj
Czerwiec
Lipiec
Sierpeń
Wrzesień
Październik
Listopad
Grudzień
I hope I did not screw it up.
This all suggests that prior to introduction of the Roman/Latin calendar from Western Europe,
the Slavs altogether had their indigenous names for the calendar months, basically similar,
with regional variations.—I bet the Muscovite Russian area also had its own variants before the introduction of the Christian calendar, so just go back to basics with the names.
The people of the Muscovite area may have been Finns, speaking Finnish, and then when they
became Christianized by Slavonic missionaries and rulers, they became Slavicized in terms of their
language as they lost their old religion and culture.—Something like that happened in Prussia,
where the Old Prussians, a people similar to Lithuanians, lost their original language, religion, culture once they became Christianized by the Germans, and they became Germanized.
—By the way, if the original people around Moscow and that area were Finnish, and not Slavic,
there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. There seem to be still a lot of tribal Finns in that area.
Racially they are white, like Europeans, even many redhaired like Kelts. That’s what can be seen.
Actually the Slavic tribes that settled in the Moscow region are said by scholars to be related to similar Polish Slavic tribes in that era.They have done DNA tests that show that.I’ve always found that ironic considering the Russophobia in Poland.
Actually, also, it would still be better to use Slavic names, like Polish,
than names totally non-Slavonic, like Latin [in mangled form].
For instance, it would be better to use “richpospolyta” instead of “respublika”
given that “rich pospolyta” would be the literal Slavonic rendition of the Latin “res publica”,
—and who cares if that would be like in Polish, as long as the root is Slavonic.
When a new object or concept is adopted from another people, it is usual to take its name as well.
When something totally new is invented, it is up to the inventors to make a name for it. In English this is usually done from Greek and Latin roots. These are then adopted into other languages and criticised for being English borrow-words. .The German language tends to translate these with German root words. Usually the pronunciation is kept (more or less) and the spelling changed to local phonetics.
The borrowed name is usually in use long before any language-purity authorities find out about it; by then it is too late to force another novelty onto people by translating the now-familiar new name.
Kat Kan
please… your information is sometimes excellent… however your tone is becoming boorish.
this is Saker’s blog, not yours.
Hmm,
This will be relating to many posts above, hence I am not going to be to specific.
I said it before and I am going to repeat it again: I am not Slav, but I was blessed to learned some of them and some very well. Therefore I find some of the uneducated comments very insulting to Slavic people.
This is actually funny. When I was taking Russian Language I met a guy from what was then known as Ukrainian SU. And I quickly picked up on his “Ukrainian” pronaunciation of “G’s”. They simply called them “H”. Shortly after, during my classes I decided to say things like him, and immediately my teacher corrected me: “we speak Russian here and not Ukrainian”. Well there is little bit more to Ukrainian language than that, like polish words “mispronounced” and latin “i” instead of corresponding russian letter, etc, etc, …
Sometime ago I happened to talk to a Croat, and I started to show off my “slavic” Macedonian, and he who was using Serbian said to me “this is “Egeyski not Makedonski”.
Mind you, I knew that because modern “Macedonian” from FYROM is nothing but Serbian, thanks to Tito. “Similarly to Ukrainian with regards to Russian “Egeyski” contains many Greek words with Slavic pronunciation.
It6’s actually funny, watching many pictures of things left around in Novorossia after battles, how stuck in XVII century all Ukrainian nationalists are. Things like “Buława – Bulava?” the haircuts, etc.
Putin promoting “love” for the Ukrinians, is natural, because he knows and hopes that sooner or later majority of them will back in Russian sphere.
I could say more, but …
Thank you for that!.
Oles’ Buzina who was murdered recently, mentioned a similar kind of phenomenon in the 1800’s and 1900’s.
People on the ‘borderlands’ aka ‘ukraina’ were peasants who thought they were speaking Russian.
It was the same in the English language area…..100 years ago people in Lancashire,Yorkshire,Derbyshire and the west country of england spoke a dialect so ‘broad’ as to be an almost separate tongue.
Example “If thee do owt for nowt,thee do it for thy sen”
Now it is very different.
F*** you I’m first.
Thank you, anon.
Your contribution is especially valuable because it is not your native language. You don’t sound like you learned from phrasebook records, but studied formally. So you know the grammar of several languages, you know the differences and similarities, much better than any native speaker, who would normally know only one.
Generally as people moved into new lands, they learned new words. They’d find new things (animals, plants, tools maybe) and adopt the local people’s word for them; failing that they’d invent a new word. Then they’d pick up words from other language neighbours, perhaps through trade, or intermarriage. So a language would eventually split into several related ones, and even within those there may be dialects.
Large areas would not speak the exact same language, until centrally organised general education became widespread. The rulers usually insisted, besides they sent the teachers and textbooks.
There seems to be an expectation that a “nation” should have its own language., Hence all the near-identical languages in the former Yugoslavia, each State deciding what versions of words they would use as “really ours.” There may also be spelling changes or major changes like latinising a Cyrillic alphabet (not entirely off the cards for an eventual European Ukraine).
This “own language” concept is why Ukraine wanted to ban Russian. It5 matters not that many “Ukrainian” words are of Polish origin, it matters much that they are NOT RUSSIAN. This is necessary for them to cease being Russian, to be themselves, their own nation.
What you call living in the XVIII century is more of this… going back to times with less Russian influence, reviving customs or fashions to differentiate themselves. Some of the accompanying “foundation myths” seem far fetched, but historical accuracy is not only unnecessary but counter-productive for distinguishing themselves from peoples they share so much history with. The also need these new definitions to UNITE the various parts of the country which had very different ethnic origins. See the history of the origins on the map I posted at
/us-and-them-a-study-in-hatred-and-love/comment-page-1/#comment-98393
Actually in case of Ukrainians, it’s those who controlled the territory that forced the locals to speak their language and imposed their customs and culture.
I suggest watching Polish movie “Ogniem i mieczem”, which is based on the famous Polish book and talks about Ukraine “kresy in Polish” in about 1650. It explains a lot of things happening today.
Yes, it could go both ways. Forcing a change of language (and often a change of religion) is a way for a new ruler to enforce “unity” on newly conquered territory. Done subtly, it eradicates the people’s own cultural cohesion, to make them accept their new station in life. Done roughly, it reinforces the culture, albeit secretly and underground; the very secrecy and accompanying victimhood/resentment serves as a strong unifier, which can form the basis of rebellion even generations later.
When whole peoples move onto new territory and settle there, they are in close daily contact with the original inhabitants, so are more likely to adopt their language and customs, at least partially. Usually there is inter-marriage, too, and a new “nation” may be born. Empire builders don’t often inter-marry with their slaves/serfs.
Language revival, even if quite artificial, then becomes of major importance in any independence project. A prime example is Hebrew, which was dead as a spoken language for about 1500 years, revived from written (religious and literary) sources in the 19th century as a way to provide a common language for Jews from various parts of Europe, who spoke various local dialects. Today it is one of the official languages of Israel.
This lady offers a personal solution to linguistic difficulties (in her case, French – or ‘French’):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA7MnagtACE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Dear the Saker,
http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150505/1021741267.html
Seems the crazy Oleh Lyashko keeps the hate going…..the man is an idiot.
It is very sad but hatred and jealousy are very ugly and these people seem souless and devoid of any love – they may speak Russian but their heart isn’t. Frankly, I don’t think the EU needs or wants this type of person and are slowly waking up to the fact.
From memory weren’t a lot of them high on some drug at the time too in their “energy” drinks?
Rgds,
Veritas
Yes Veritas,the ‘energy’ drinks and the after effects are very similar to the behaviour of ‘crack heads’
Crack cocaine is a highly volatile mixture.
The users have a very short fuse,prolonged use results in severe self harm…scratching raw!…itching…
just wiki the symptoms.
Yuck!
My two cents, if you don’t mind:
1.) Language is the most important factor for the identity of a people because it is the common tool of a people for describing reality (that works much better in German: das gemeinsame Werkzeug sich die Wirklichkeit begrifflich zu machen.) That does not necessarily mean that humans who speak the same language automatically belong to the same people, but humans who do not speak at least one common language cannot be part of the same people. (That is btw the reason why the EU by the very nature of the entities it wants to govern has to be a dictatorship.)
2.) Hatred of people one does not know is a lunacy (Wahnsinn) of usually collectivistic nature that in my experience needs ignorance and misery to thrive.
My father moved to the middle of “East-Germany” about twenty years ago. Roughly to halfway between Hamburg and Berlin. My father and his girlfriend in their mid-forties soon became known as the young couple in town. There are vast swaths of land around there where almost everyone who could has packed their bags and moved long ago. The ones who stay behind… Well, they are essentially leftovers. And have a reputation for being stupid and Nazis or at least very conservative (which in Germany automatically makes you a Nazi).
And they really are stupid and borderline Nazis. Not most of them of course but especially the young ones. Who feel that they have been betrayed. That somehow they did not get the chances they deserved and that it must be someone else’s fault. It cannot possibly be their own fault.
At this point I think it is very easy to tell them:
“Of course not, it is THE ENEMY’s fault. You are a perfectly wonderful human being and deserve much better. If you do exactly what I tell you, we will beat THE ENEMY.
You will never have to feel bad about yourself again, if you believe exactly what I tell you. Get a badge, grab a gun and go do some justice!”
As opposed to:
“Well, you see… It is mainly your fault. And your parents’ and a lot of politicians’ who were in office around the time you were born. It is their fault too, OK. But look around you and look in the mirror. You are a stupid, ugly failure and nobody wants you. Most of your old friends moved away and make a living someplace where playing x-box and tuning cars for twenty hours a week each is not the hallmark of coolness. Get a job, get a life, go study and earn some hope, you miserable piece of shit!”
And for the ignorance part: I remember that a guy, maybe eighteen, from the next village who used to drop by my father every now and them came over when I was visiting and we had a beer and a little chat.
He knew I lived in Hamburg and said that although Hamburg must be nice in many ways, he would not be able to stand it with all the Turks and how did I cope? I asked him how many Turks he knew personally and he replied almost insulted: “None, of course!”
I find that again and again. It is quite hard to hate people you know, unless they have insulted you personally or you are insane.
I guess in the Ukraine it must be pretty much the same. Miserable, pitiful misguided failures who in their self-pity unconsciously choose their own destruction rather than facing reality but are willing to take everybody else down with them in the process.
Suicide bombers basically.
Well put Martini.
You write very clearly,thank for the insights.
There are some very good commenters on this blog…stick around!
cheers.
Right for a nugget of gold! Not just 2 cents. Ugly wide world phenomenon.
From newborns to nation states, we trust similarity. But does that mean we must hate difference? by Marek Kohn
http://aeon.co/magazine/philosophy/marek-kohn-us-and-them/
Also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Elliott
Many people might be disturbed to learn how much of our behavior rests on evolution, neurochemicals, brain configuration, and other physical conditions — operating under statistical mathematics and robotically like zombies or with ‘monkey brains’.
For an infant’s genes to propagate it must first live long enough to reach sexual maturity, and that depends on recognizing and associating with others which will be supportive of it’s life — mom, family, kin and tribe, who in turn support the infant and child as a vehicle for shared genes.
I’ve read some things about how cats, and presumably other animals, behave differently towards others of their species according to what smell tells them about kinship relationships — but humans don’t have the same ability of smell so rely on other cues. Yet, group selection — passing on genes the same as (or different from) one’s own — is a large factor in behavior (even in humans selection of mates) — based on the ‘selfish gene’ and maximizing odds of propagation. We are not really quite ‘human’, ‘intelligent’, or ‘civilized’, and only part way evolved towards that, largely working with rather primitive ‘animal’ (or more fundamental form) motivations, and limited ‘free choice’ unless culturally developed.
It seems to me that there is only one solution. A genuine ‘Peoples Revolution’ in Ukraine to take back the country from the Junta and it’s western sponsors. There is no dream world here in Europe for the Ukrainians, that died a long time ago when Poroshenko and the junta went to war. The quicker the real Ukrainians understand this the better for the whole of the country and, potentially, the whole world.
As for love Russians appear to have for their Ukrainian brother and sisters …. it is misguided …. too much blood has run. it will take many decades to get over this problem, if ever, and we can be sure the western powers planned it this way.
Having known and met enough Ukrainians here in the UK I can honestly say they are not to be trusted. Mostly they are descendants of those who were given clemency, asylum, safety from the Soviets at the end of WWII. Little more than children of Banderites and they have grown 70 years of hate for Russia and have passed this down the generations !!!
In 2012, well before Maidan, I attended a music concert at a folk music festival in the UK wearing a t-shirt bearing the symbol of the CCCP. A Ukrainian group of musicians referred to me, publicly, as a ‘Russian Spy’ and pointed me out in the crowd. Already the rot had started here in the UK !!!
Don’t be fooled that the Ukies living close by, particularly in the UK and USA, are nice people. Their ancestors were potentialy Nazi collaborators and many fully support the current junta. Much like the Irish ex-pats who moved to the USA and subsequently provided financial support for the IRA for many years during the time of the ‘Troubles’. Also the deaths of many of their motherlands citizens and the boys of the British army.
If only we could find a solution to these troubling times …. Peace and laying to rest of all the old antagonisms is the only way forward … God bless the diplomats of Russia and all people who support them in their fight for stability in the world. Left to the west alone the world will be in ruins for our future generations!!!!
Great post, Saker. I really enjoyed it. All true.
Наше дело правое. Победа будет за нами.
Such vicious hatred comes as a result of conversion, & there is nothing that a convert hates more than those from his people who haven’t converted yet, because they constantly remind him of the fact that he (the convert) is nothing more but the scum; a worthless sellout who sold a century for a year.
Inwardly, he is aware that there is more to life than the dinner he exchanged for the faith & culture of his very ancestors, & as a mirror of his treason, they have to be exterminated in order to make his act of treason “meaningful.”
Therefore, By definition, converts are always on the enemy side; in fact, the enemy’s most cruel & effective weapon. Reason? Because they want to look like the enemy, they have to “prove” their allegiance to the enemy’s identity, i.e., be “more than” what the enemy itself is.
The other consequence of conversion is the fact that the converts–despite their greatest efforts against those they are coming from–are never accepted completely as equals by the enemy they fight for; at best, they always remain his caricature.
How do they do these things? The answer lies in Psychopathology. Saker, you’ve said it before, many of these haters are sociopaths/psychopath’s (using the term interchangeably). There’s a great book on the subject called POLITICAL PONEROLOGY, which is about what happens when psychopath’s take over the government of a country, such as the U.S./Anglo Zionist Empire or Ukraine. The answer is the terrible evil carnage that you describe. The point is that if we don’t understand the phenomenon, and very well, then we’re always a step behind trying to understand in human terms that which is essentially not human at all. They are after all, in essence, inter species predators. It’s time for humanity to wake up before it’s too late and a much deeper mass understanding of psychopathology is a big part of the picture, in my humble opinion. Of course, I do understand that Russians got a big lesson in this during the Soviet Era. That’s one of the reasons why they are in the Vanguard now, I also believe.
The U.S. has a thousand military bases all over the world. It took a lot of bribes and arm-twisting to accomplish that. Russia is going to have a thousand love-bases all over the world. When their naval vessels make port calls, they will be greeted with flowers and cheers and the local people will blow kisses because the Russians want to spread love and good will instead of threats and hate. It sounds like a joke, but, no, this is very serious.
Everywhere John F. Kennedy went, from Mexico, to France, to Ireland, etc., he radiated pure love and people all over the world responded in kind to him. He was wildly popular all over the world because he genuinely loved humanity and it showed. His kindness and humility showed. He was the real deal. You just can’t fake that kind of charisma. Vladimir Putin once said that love was the meaning of life, so he is definitely on the same page as JFK.
I would very much like to be as optimistic as you concerning the future collapse of Ukraine.
However I often think of the French Revolution of 1789 which saw the advent of the Republic (as opposed to Monarchy). Lots of people were probably thinking at that time that such a system would and could not last. But it survived through two emperors and three kings, and the Republic finally came out as an undisputed regime a century later. Who would have thought in 1790 that the Republic would survive and eventually win ? It was probably unthinkable for the vast majority of the French and for the whole of Europe.
“Every single nation of the Soviet Union did suffer terribly under the Soviet rule, not just the Ukrainians”
_______
How? By receiving education, medical care and appartments for free, I suppose. Bettre not to write at all then to write bullshit.
All those things came after the war. At the start, 1920’s 1930’s, it was very brutal for a lot of people, and millions were killed. Some on purpose, moved to gulags or outright killed; whole villages shifted elsewhere to struggle opening new lands or working in the new factories; others died from famines caused by drought compounded by gross mismanagement. Secret police keeping everyone in line and anyone objecting or questioning just disappeared….
Then 20 million died in the war, AT LEAST, including millions of civilians whose cities were blockaded or villages got in the way of the tanks.
The jobs, education, apartments, medical care, came after the war, rebuilding the damage. Very few people left now who remember the bad times personally, BUT the reputation for killings and gulags and purges sort of stuck, even though Stalin died 61 years ago and everyone after him concentrated on building, not killing. (Of course to hear some in the US, they seem to think Stalin was in charge right up until Putin took over).
I have been trying to wrap my head around the fact of human cruelty and the consequences of ignorance from my earliest days. I do think that the roots are deep in human mind and culture. I do not think it wise to fall into polarizing narratives, however emotionally thrilling.
It seems to me that many of the irrational negative affective emotions spring from a bent ethology. Human development depends on love, touch, community, culture, so many things. We do much of our development outside of the womb. There are stages, and times when if the specific development is thwarted, it can be manipulated to a lesser end. For example, if a goose has their hearing prevented, so they cannot hear the chirping of their goslings, they will turn the considerable aggression they would normally use to defend their little ones, and will peck them to death.
So, modern consumer alienated humans are manipulated to a high degree. As Dylan wrote, speaking of our young men, “their minds have been mismanaged with great skill, so that all they believe are their eyes, and their eyes, they just analyze…” We are trained out of empathy, love and compassion to a great degree, or may exhibit those qualities to a narrow slice of society, excluding the whole of the human community. I do think, (and I was raised in California) that european culture, is both imperialist and rooted in child abuse and feudalism. We just haven´t got the equanimity and balance thing right yet. How to have respect for all humans and the biotic community as a whole. A child who is brutalized will need a world of support and effort to not become one who brutalizes in his or her turn. I recommend Derrick Jensen´s `A Language Older than Words´ for a poetic and powerful elucidation of this dynamic.
I strive to keep my sympathies for all people, especially those who behave badly from ignorance, and I do believe in restraining them from further depredations, and also in redemption. As long as there is breath of life, one may awaken to higher levels of awareness.
I think there are probably a majority of Ukranians who are quaking in their boots at the lawlessness and terror loose in their homeland. Just as there are many citizens of the USA who are not in the least in agreement with the vicious trends in their government at home and abroad. It is up to us to stop the poisoning of our food supply, the theft of our resources, the bombs sold and dropped onto innocents.
To quote the same song I mentioned earlier, ” there´s a woman on my block, she just sits there as the night grows still, she says, who´s gonna take away his license to kill?” Somehow, the solution resides in each and every heart, how can we release our prejudices and hatreds? How can we learn to manifest in our lives the great teachings of Love ?
I myself have rejected parts of the culture I was born into. We each have the task of sorting the good cultural aspects to amplify and pass along, and leave behind that which does not have a good result. All of our institutions (in the USA) need a serious redesign, a transformation. They are all corrupt and dysfunctional.
The problem is that the more disruption, war, disorder, displacement of populations that the empire causes, the more bent ethologies, the more people driven to despair and revenge, the more cultures are shredded, the more human ethologies are bent. One thing that has given me hope over the years is the degree to which oppressed peoples can maintain their dignity and culture in the face of horrible repressions, like the South African blacks, American blacks, and the Palestinians. We have much to learn from them, and we must act.
love is Christian word they use while bombing people.
religion of love and religion of peace
bomb the Hindu because he stands on his feet
“Can you imagine how humiliating it must be for them to only score “victories” against unarmed civilians?”
This is also a portrait of USA, their masters, and ameriKKKan people are proud of it.
Why are the russians so kind to these beasts? like the russians say “гнать их ссаными тряпками”.
Let the dirt poor west ukrainian kurvas descend further into the grave they’ve dug up for themselves.
All 100% of mass media in Ukraine is under control of the jews. Maidoun is the result. As for the dirt poor Galichina beasts , like the russians say ” гнать их ссаными тряпками” , they are the real “vatniks” if not now , will be soon.