Note: “vatnik” is a derogatory term used in today’s Ukraine to describe people in Donbass and other South-Eastern regions as well as anybody supportive of the ‘Russian World”. The word ‘vatnik” means an overcoat padded with cotton (“vata”) habitually worn by agriculture and construction workers in early and mid Soviet times. It is quite warm but hardly fashionable. The reference is to the supposedly primitive nature of the people that would wear such a garment. People of Novorossia are now proudly call themselves “vatniks” as do many Russians. In this case, ‘Vatnik’ is also the callsign of Sergei Vasilevskii, a well-known military expert, author, journalist and member of the military intelligence service of the LNR.
by Sergey Vasilevsky
Translated by Eugenia
Recently, I received yet another message from “the other side” in Ukraine. The gist of it: “When will you come to deliver us from Poroshenko and Co?”
I understand the logic. People first jumped at Maidan, then voted for Poroshenko, then subsidized “ATO” (Anti-Terrorist Operation – translator’s note), and now received their salaries, compared them with their utility bills, and suddenly saw the light. And started crying: “Come and help us, brothers from Novorossia!”
This is understandable. What is not understandable is why this is our business. When we fight to defend our land and take back the remaining territory (of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions under the Ukraine’s control – translator’s note) – this is one thing. But why would we go on the offensive, ruin our heavy weapons and lose people, all of this to bring happiness to people that are awaiting rescue lying on the couch?
An offensive operation usually results in losses an order of magnitude higher than that in a defensive one. And if the Ukrainian military generally does not need that war, the Right Sector and the National Guard, with nothing to lose, will fight to the end. According to you, we must go and die so that two still incomplete regions liberate the remaining twenty two?
If you start – we will help. But nobody will do your job for you.
You have it easier in many ways. In 2014, I have seen people at block-posts firing back from old double barrel single-shot hunting rifles at helicopters, for which even a machine gun is nothing. You have it simpler as far as interesting military hardware is concerned.
As far as I know, at a Ukrainian black market, AK-74 (Kalashnikov assault rifle designed in 1974 – translator’s note) can be bought for 1,500 grivnas ($1 ≈ 25 grivnas – translator’s note); ammunition for it – 1 grivna a piece, or 1,000 grivnas per case. If fired in single shots, this will be enough for a long time. A sum of 2,500 grivnas – it is reasonable money to defend one’s right to life.
By and large, you don’t have a choice. The current authorities will drink your blood until you are dry. That was the reason they grabbed power in the first place.
The first rule for a critical situation: if a fight cannot be avoided, hit first. If you start, we will support you. Will attack from both sides, create cauldrons. We do, thank God, have enough experience to chop the Ukrainian forces in cauldrons.
But nobody will be doing the main job for you. Two still incomplete regions will not be sacrificing their armies to liberate the remaining twenty two regions. The Ukrainians are not beautiful princesses imprisoned in a tower by the Green Snake – Poroshenko.
You put him in office yourself – it is up to you to get rid of him. And if you are serious in your intentions – help might come from a direction where you least expect it.
Source: https://topwar.ru/102447-vatnik-ukraincam-zachem-nam-osvobozhdat-vas.html
Polls show there is very low, to none support for a Russian incursion into Ukraine by the Ukrainian people. Not even in Kiev occupied Donbass does the majority support a Russian incursion.
That, I think is something all pro-Russians must accept, while USA generally lost in Ukraine, there was one field they have totally won in, and that is popular opinion, Ukraine is now a new Poland, it used to be pro-Russian but today Ukraine is hysterically anti-Russian, and not just the elites, the average Ukrainian too.
Sure Ukrainians hates their pro-NATO government, but they hate Russia more. And even if this pro-NATO government was overthrown, another pro-NATO, anti-Russian government woudl take its place.
And yet two recent polls in the former The Ukraine, now Ukropian Nulandistan, have shown that most Ukrainians would like Putin as leader (2015) and consider Yanukovych as ‘best leader’ in their short history (2016).
Source is.
With pleasure:
1.
https://www.sott.net/article/299572-Ukrainian-poll-fail-84-would-entrust-Putin-to-lead-Ukraine
2.
http://www.pravda.ru/news/world/formerussr/ukraine/02-08-2016/1308606-yanukovich-0/
The first one is something, but it was just a web poll, the other one I cannot read.
Use the Force, Luke!
https://translate.yandex.com/translate
Online translations are so awful. :( So awful :(
Apologies. I did not realize that it was Russian only.
The second link says (my rough translation):
“A poll by Ukrainian Mass Media on the occasion of the 25 year Jubilee of Independence. Question: Who was the best leader of Ukraine since then?
Yanukovych 33%
Other 30%
Kuchma 20%
Poroshenko 6%
Yuschenko 4%
Kravchuk 4% ”
Understandably this is not going to quickly appear in English. The overlords may not like it and The Ukraine looks ridiculous enough already.
I am quite confident that these polls are no better or worse than those in the USA on the topic of the coming elections.
A, yes, thank you, I have actually read that somewhere before. Do you know if the poll was a proper poll or a call in poll? Because a call in poll would have a similar problem as the webbpoll.
All polls are problematic in one way or another. As are all elections. What can you do? Increase the margin of error by 5%? Sure. Why not?
I found some of that stuff in English: http://www.pravdareport.com/news/world/ussr/ukraine/02-08-2016/135181-ukraine_yanukovych-0/
Ukropian nulandistan lmao
Which polls were that? I suspect there are a lot more people that want liberation,but who if asked in a poll “do you support Russian troops invading Ukraine”. Aren’t stupid enough to say “yes I do”.And the next day get a visit from the local SBU or Right Sector terror squad. The Odessa massacre is still a fresh memory. I don’t really think there is a “real” need for Russian troops.There is need for Russian bribe money. And Russian volunteers.And Russian equipment and training for local Ukrainian fighters.But with those tools,the local Ukrainians could do the job. And overt Russian troop support shouldn’t be needed.
Well, if that is so then no need for Russia to apologise. Finishing off once and for all this nonsensical “country” (Ukraine) populated by Kosher Nazis and honorary Euro-trash would be a Sterling Service to the whole of Europe. Fascists are cowards that instantly sense the danger when confronted by determination and resolve.
“honorary Euro-trash”
-Spare us your bigotry anti-white, the only nazists here is PC-trash such as yourself
There are few things more ridiculous than the knights of “White Identity”!
Indeed there are quite a few things more ridiculous such as knights of “Black identity”, “hispanic identity”, “muslim identity”, “indian identity”
You should get a nick: so we know who is spreading racist hatred. As long as minorities follow the law and make some effort to contribute to society they are fine neighbours. You and the similar minded can expand your horizon by going on vacation in a Latin country or learning to appreciate the music.
Bigotry is one big distraction, culture wars 2.0, so our governments can get away with their plundering and warmongering.
This does not mean I´m in favor of inviting the whole 3rd world into the west.
You are not inviting anyone. You are just helpless. Who are you to invite anyone anyway?
[personal invective removed~mod] I said, “In Favor.” [caps removed~mod] of inviting, not inviting, and which powerful overlord are you anyway???
(@ Mod : Apologies for the shouting, hopefully it is allowed in context…) [No need to shout here – and no, it’s not allowed in any context~mod]
@“hispanic identity”,
Actually, the hysteria about the loss of the “White identity” is an American Anglo-Saxon phenomenon (tinged with large swathes of ‘British Israelitism’), where the WASPS feel threatened by the former slaves (it is ultimately a hidden inferiority complex). It is not really applicable to Europe, and least of all to Russia. Even the so called ‘racism’ of the Nazis was a graft of the Anglo-American really biologically racist (neo-Darwinist) theories onto a sense of cultural superiority of Europe (derived from its Christian-Hellenistic foundation).
Thank you. That was a pleasure to read and I learned something.
PC? Who? Me? I’m a firm supporter of Russia, Stalin, and Putin — and I would be just elated to see Russia nuke the psychotic West. If that is PC by your standards, then interesting times indeed!
No nukes please. Ever heard of MAD (mutual assured destruction)?
…just cut off them completely gas so those russophobic morons maybe start thinking…..
posted last week-anna -news saying 20000 recently went from ukraine to russia as emigrants-sensible people methinks.
Cant compare Poland and Ukraine. The first one has had a traditional hystorical way to become a nation and a state. The second was artificially created from Russians to fight Russians. Not to sy less Ukr territory was created by Lenin and Khruschev – before them there was no such state or nation as Ukrs.There were Russian ethnic groups who were under influence of Lithvinia, Poland and AustroHungaria.. The central Ukr national idea is “We are not Russians!”. The methods of thinking that have been inflicted in schools and the massmedia stemfrom the methods of sects – baptists, penticostal and alike. Ukr nationalists created with the same sect model.. Ukr idea is destructive in nature – the language artificially created from surzhik – one of the versions of a villagers dialect with new words created as long as the do not remind russian words. Therefore it sounds unintelligent and majority people in Ukraine like to use their hystorical language ie Russian. This destructive sect wont last long. So, we cant compare a State with a Sect, Poland vs Ukrs
The comment is approved with reservations. While no violations of the basic terms have occurred, the commenter should be advised about the storm of protest that can happen when assertions such as these are made. One wonders, are these your own opinions, or, assertions that can be supported by citation to a reputable source? Thank you for reading and contributing to The Vineyard of the Saker.
“/…/traditional hystorical way to become a nation and a state.”
Most beautiful convolution — the Poles are just as hysterically Russophobic historically as the Ukro-trash. The Russian language, however, is not “hystorical”; it’s the silly joke of “Ukrainian”.
Perhaps this article could illuminate something. Only, it is in Spanish, and I am not able to translate it right now or even some excerpts with this phone.
Just too much that I can post something and add some links.
I hope some at least will find it very interesting on the “Ukrainian issue”:
“The Ukraine liberate itself”
https://culturaproletaria.wordpress.com/2016/10/25/ucrania-se-libera-1918/
This was a letter written by Staling on December 1, 1918 and published in “Nacionalnosti Zhizn”/No.4 and “Pravda”/(No. 261 with some modifications).
He writes about the fact that Ukraine for a long time is object of imperialists exploitation, already before the revolution by France, Belgium and England, the endless humiliations and trials suffered by Ukraine during the usual Austro-German occupation and Stalin calls them already then the imperialists of Austria and Germany.
The exploitation concerns coal, metal, etc. then by huge enterprises in Ukraine.
Also uninvited visitors were the Anglo-Frence with their occupation of Ukraine and indicated them also as “slavers from England and France.
And he proclaimed in this article that “The real sruggle in Ukraine is still ahead”.
This is only an extract.
If anybody is interested in the complete article of Staling about the situation in Ukraine in 1918 she/he will let me know.
Sources?
This is an excellent call to arms. People in the West should understand it applies to them as well…
Russell, are you going to try and get Graham help with his personal security? Thanks.
Cheers Tex. Glad to know you are alive and kicking. Good luck!
Schadenfreude where it’s absolutely appropriate!
Jumping, drooling, and panting Ukro-trash at the Maidan dearly yearned for Instant Heaven courtesy of the tender, loving care of George Soros and his “European values”. If I recall, there was quite a big demonstration shortly after the Maidan circus promptly demanding wage hikes to Western European levels. This splendid act of delusion to the n:th degree was, quite likely, inspired by the handsome money (and eatables) doled out by the Zionazis to start the putsch.
Well, it’s definitely telling if even you have lost faith in the horrible You’re_a_peon Union. Excellent — now it’s time for you to start showing some real nationalism for a change and show some respect for Yanukovych who, correctly, refused to sign the colonial treaty you fought so valiantly for.
Indeed, a week or so ago, Ukrainians voted Yanukovych “Best President of Ukraine”. Not surprising, since he was heading for a victory in the upcoming elections of 2014.
Which is why the CIA/USSD/Mossad acted quickly to throttle democracy in The Ukraine, for the foreseeable future, on the Maidan.
http://www.pravda.ru/news/world/formerussr/ukraine/02-08-2016/1308606-yanukovich-0/
I agree with much of his thinking. But think there are a few other points to make. Without liberating the rest of Ukraine. The remaining Donbass can’t be safe “ever”. As long as there is life in the fascist junta they won’t stop their attacks on Donbass. Its not a case “you leave us along,we leave you alone”.Even in Crimea we see a never ending fear of terrorist attacks. And while certainly,Crimea is far better organized and protected. The attacks still continue. Without any sign the Ukrainian fascists plan on giving them up.If they are willing to risk that in Crimea.They are surely even more inclined to risk that in Donbass. Even if they don’t (for now) fully attack. They shell Donbass constantly,killing or injuring people almost daily.They infiltrate terror gangs to set bombs,and murder people. There is no true security. And the fascists show no intention to stop. The liberation of Ukraine is important,not just to liberate the people in the other regions.But as importantly,if not more so,for the safety of Donbass itself.
Having said that. The question is how to start the liberation.Unlike in Donbass,the other regions are cowed by terrorist groups.And by the secret police (SBU).We have seen groups try to oppose them in several areas.And they’ve been killed,imprisoned,or forced to flee.Donbass itself has many people from other Ukrainian areas that fled there for protection and to fight as part of the NAF. My suggestion is the same one I’ve given before.Form a “government in exile” which “could” rally support all over Ukraine.Infiltrate “your own” teams into other areas for sabotage and anti-regime activities.That is the first start to liberation.But again I will reiterate,”without liberating Ukraine,Donbass and its population.Can not be safe from attacks”. And the same goes for Crimea.
Crimea, you are wrong. The price to be paid for touching Crimea is enormous. The peninsula is Russia. Home of the Black Sea Fleet. It has tens of thousands of elite troops, aerospace, marines, S400 defense, and tactical nukes,
The notion that it is under threat because some bozos went to sabotage some installations near the border is extrapolating a tiny event into war plans. Hardly.
Auslander, our friend from Krim, can assure us of the insanity of any Ukie thrust at Crimea.
As for an uprising, it needs support. All the major cities where an uprising might occur are controlled well. Certainly several levels of “leaders” have been eliminated by SBU and Nazi battalions.
Perhaps, we can hope for it to occur in concert with a counter-offensive if the Ukies ever attack. But now it looks as if they never will. The Ukies are very effective at their campaign as is, lose very few men to the Donbass return fire and inflict psychological damage as well as real human and infrastructure damage under the present terms of engagement-disengagement.
Easy to say ‘rise up!’ If they heard the sound of helicopters coming or tanks rolling thunder into Ukie barracks and block posts, they might grab pitchforks and knives. Short of RF or Donbass troops coming, they are enslaved in fear and violence.
Sorry for a delay in replying, Larchmonter.
There will be no trouble in Krimu or Sevastopol. Yes, it is possible to activate the odd small unit or two to do some damage but there will be nothing of any major import. This peninsula and this city is nothing but a huge village where everyone knows everyone. We are not stupud, anything untoward is noted and handled.
Auslander
Author
Never The Last One https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ZGCY8KK
An Incident On Simonka https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01ERKH3IU
Congratulations Auslander.
I will buy kindle versions as soon as I stop traveling at the beginning of November.
It looks interersting. I met some people who were close to the events involved in the disarming of the Ukrainian navy at Sevastopol, in 2014 I guess it was. I was there in 2015. This will remind me of them.
I didn’t say they would succeed (or massively attack) Crimea. I don’t think they are that stupid,unless ordered by the US to attack. Its terrorism,and the constant threat of terrorism,I was talking about.A drip,drip,effect,on people. Probably every attempt they try will be stopped. But in the trying,over and over again,will lives be lost and people injured.Just in the last one two Russian soldiers were killed.Sooner or later with enough trying, losses would go up.That was what I meant ,that the rule of the junta in Ukraine was a permanent threat to Crimea.
Good ideas, Bob, but I question where a government in exile might set up. If anywhere in the west, it would be suppressed by it’s host government. If in Russia, it would be ineffective in gaining credibility in the west.
I think that regime change in the west is the only way by which Ukraine will be resolved. Let’s keep our fingers crossed.
It doesn’t need to gain credibility in the West though. It would be targeted at gaining the support of Ukrainians. The West is a lost cause. Gaining credibility with them is impossible as long as they are under the US’s control.But among Ukrainians a government in exile.Whether siting in Russia ,or even better in Donbass. Could be seen by Ukrainians in all regions as “the alternative” to the junta.And used to rally support against the regime.
@ Uncle Bob
It makes good sense to have a gov in exile and Yanukovych has legitimacy to claim the right – and apparently the popular support – to form it. But would the Kremlin allow it?
There I think lays a lot of the problem. The schism inside Russia I’ve discussed before, paralyzes constructive actions being taken to solve the problem of fascism in Ukraine. Until that is overcome I don’t know if its possible to solve that problem.
Quite apart from the possibility that such appeals for help might very possibly be staged by the CIA, to lure the unsuspecting Novorossians (and, with exceptional luck, even the Russians themselves) into actually attacking. Then NATO could join the fight with everything it’s got, and turn Donetsk and Lugansk into Gaza – if not Sabra and Chatila.
I don’t think that Russia could be provoked to intervene, they tried to play this card but without success. Ukraine’s leaders are blaming continuously that the Russian military is actively taking part in operations in Donbass but in vain. We talked about that many times before. Somebody – and that is not Russia – has to make the first step.
NATO has no intention of facing war with Russia over Ukraine.They will “milk” this crisis for all it is worth.But if the junta falls,other than sending “volunteers” (maybe) and equipment (more than likely). They would never send serving NATO troops.They realize that WW III would erupt if they did.And their countries would suffer the brunt of the fighting. More than likely including nuclear strikes.They may talk tough. But the thought of “mushroom” clouds covering the EU is a great way to see reason very quickly.This has been a huge “bluff” from the start. If they could control Ukraine without fighting,certainly they are going to go for that.But if it came to war.Other than them willing to fight to the last Ukrainian.They have no other answer.
Polls show there is very low, to none support for a Russian incursion into Ukraine by the Ukrainian people. Not even in Kiev occupied Donbass does the majority support a Russian incursion.
That, I think is something all pro-Russians must accept, while USA generally lost in Ukraine, there was one field they have totally won in, and that is popular opinion, Ukraine is now a new Poland, it used to be pro-Russian but today Ukraine is hysterically anti-Russian, and not just the elites, the average Ukrainian too.
Sure Ukrainians hates their pro-NATO government, but they hate Russia more. And even if this pro-NATO government was overthrown, another pro-NATO, anti-Russian government woudl take its place..
Polls in a fascist state do not mean much. Russia is an independent nation which a rarity in the world these days. Poland is a chained vassal state to the 1776 rebels. Poland does not have much to offer to Ukraine as an example as a vassal to a nation thousands of miles away. Russia as an independent nation will be a better example to Ukraine than Poland in the future.
“You put him in office yourself – it is up to you to get rid of him.”
The CIA put him into office.
This is your business, because Ukraine is your soft underbelly, it makes you very, very vulnerable. It is your business also, because in the 80 – 90s you by foolishly jumping in your big cities for “glasnost”, “perestroika”, “democracy” , jeans and gum and electing Yeltsin, his daughter Tatiana and her lovers Boris Berezovsky, Boris Nemtsov etc. scumbags (you elected them, didn’t you?), deliberately or stupidly let your safety belt of Soviet republics and countries from the Warsaw pact fall apart, you even pushed them hard to NATO. You were amongst the first to apply to NATO membership, NATO just did not take you in. So, this is your business and a huge problem and you must find the best way to solve it.
R
I love how you try to turn your snapshots into a marathon movie.
You are a regular Bernardo Birdolucci.
There is a lot of truth there in what you said.Huge mistakes were made then (Putin even talked the same). But that was then,this is now.Now its time to undo the mistakes. And not let them be the policy again.
The point is that this their business and they have to work to solve the problem.
R
Hear, hear….
Reading the majority of the comments that deal with Ukraine, it is obvious that those „experts“ dearly hate everything „Ukrainian“. I am not Ukrainian, nor Russian, nor American nor from EU, but any thinking person knows that the huge majority of Ukrainians struggle just to keep on living on day-to-day basis (those in the Donbass and other SE parts, of course, too). They do not decide on anything, nor they ever did. It is grey-area and the life in any war-torn country is not black and white, as it surely seems to be to the „couch-warriors“ and „instant patriots“.
I second your thoughts completelly. The blame is on the Western hegemon, but nothing can lessen the Russian responsibility for allowing the Maidan to happen.
We read so many articles and comments bragging about how Putin and FSB knew everything about the coup in Turkey, how they warned Erdogan and so on…… how come they didn’t do anything to prevent this in Ukraine? It seems easier to have a network of agents in a former soviet republic, then in a second-strong NATO-member country, doesn’t it?
And when the other former members of Warsaw-block see what happens with Ukraine, what do the Russians expect them to think? To stay loyal to „Mother Russia“ to the death, though the mother is not a mother, but a step-mother, who’ll let you down the drain in an instant if she can earn something by that?
Russia is not a fair player, not by a long shot. I suspect that Russia cut the deal with USA and Iran, and we see it unraveling in the ME. We will see it in the Balkans, too. Choosing between USA and Russia is not choosing between good and bad. It is choosing between two bads!
Just wait and see.
[I am not Ukrainian, nor Russian, nor American nor from EU, but any thinking person knows …]
Oh yes, Shlomo, we know!
Lovely answer++++
Former Yougo?
We wait and will see Russia coming out on the top
Putin plays them all making them look
like totally brainless zombies
I very very much agree with you Sergey. Thank you for writing this.
wishful thinking. thats all. never going to happen. first 20 million ukrainians flooding germany with their brand new visa free travel rules. then we see where its leading.
dont put up your hopes. “ukrainians” are lazy , asocial and for the most evil faschists. if they where not, they would have risen long ago. did i forget some. yes. “ukrainians” are stupid. and thats a fakt. sorry my language here. and god bless
It’s not true that the people from the occupied regions of Novorusia ley on their couches and wait to be set free. Problem is that occupator has destroyed any organized resistance, like in Odessa, and it is now impossible to build a new one, without a help of Russia (or even China?)
That’s not what he claimed; it’s the Ukros, not the Novorussians, that lay on their couches awaiting free lunches (rather than liberation).
“And if you are serious in your intentions – help might come from a direction where you least expect it.”
;D
I would like to know about the differences in general national character and culture between Ukrainians and Russians.
It is not exactly a ‘difference’ in cultures.
There is no such thing as Ukrainian culture.
There is such a thing as Russian culture.
Both cultures have the same roots, Kievan Rus which was essentially a rolling scrum between lords (Boyars), elected officials, church officials, and a Grande Prince (if you could keep it) that lasted from about 800AD to the Golden Horde invasion of about 1240 AD. The Horde ruled till about 1480 AD and left their mark not so much in culture but in a unified form of central government with some aspects of that existing even till today.
During the collapse of the Horde, the principality of Moscovy played their cards better by making and breaking alliances with the Horde at key times and rose to power over the other principalities to form the new center of Russian power and therefore culture.
Scratch a Slavic Ukrainian – or a Slavic Russian – and you will find Kievan Rus. However, the Russians are not so much a single unified people as some think, like China there are a multiplicity of ethnic groups. My comments apply only to the Slavic tribes.
You cannot deny that the capital of Rus’ moved north to Moscow some twelve hundred years ago. So a Russian reacts differently when you try to scratch one, and most unlike a Ukrainian. If you scratch a Ukrainian, who has been chasing Khazar, Austro-Hungarian and German Nazi sticks for centuries, he may roll over and start panting. If you can get him to stop jumping up and down in expectation of a shiny, new Zionist EUSA stick!
The difference between Russians and Ukrainians has been brought up on the Saker before. The one guy’s apple cart story explained it best. A Jew finds a cart full of apples, he takes some for himself and his family and sells the rest. A Russian finds a cart full of apples, he takes some for himself and his family and gives the rest away. A Ukrainian finds a cart full of apples, he takes some for himself and his family and then takes a bite out of every remaining apple to make sure that no-one else can have any.
Also the Chernobyl disaster was mentioned, the Ukrainians stood by and watched, then Russians arrived on the scene and promptly flung their bodies into the inferno to stop the meltdown.
So Russians and Ukrainians are the same people, but they have different attitudes.
Much of the Ukrainian opposition to the coup probably fled the country already.
My take is this: it would be better for USUkraine to implode, that is, by now I had expected the USUkrainians to have at least protested at the energy price increases – and maybe they still will if they can’t afford to pay the bills for a (really) cold winter, yet I expect it will be relatively mild again.
So, I think it would be best to wait up to 3 months; by then, hopefully Trump will be in the WH, and poroSHITko’s support gone.
Novorossiya should then concentrate on getting back its territory; forget kiev, who’d want to take that shit place, and have to deal with crazy zombies? Let it fall (eventually).
Then there is this, is it true? http://dninews.com/article/korchinsky-berlin-poroshenko-agreed-yield-mariupol-and-kharkov
And, doesn’t kiev want to increase military spending by 29% in next year’s budget? Cuts will have to made, causing more resentment, until they have had enough.
I agree with the tone of the article: why should someone else do the work for Ukrainians? Lately, I have been posting comments on this subject. Except that I say: dont wait for Putin to save you.
Because I dont think it works like that. Someone has to do their own part to liberate themselves. The russian secret service, the CIA or the Ukraine secret police, none of them want to liberate anyone. Their business is control.
One important factor is that people are not all the same. Some folks wont listen until someone physically beat them with a stick. Others can be talked to but still need a strong government to make them function properly. Another group of people are evolved to the point where they can actually think for themselves and they are not easily broken by the system.
So, I have been saying, lets find our own answers. Lets not wait for Jesus or Allah, Buddha or Obama. It is our own evolution that matters, others cannot do it for us. I get a lot of angry comments when I say stuff like this. Well, too bad. Jesus is not coming to save you. He showed you the way now you have to walk on the path.
It does not have to be complicated, being peaceful and respectful might be enough to change your world. It can thwart the secret color revolutions going on everywhere. Even if only one person evolves to the next level, it makes it that much harder for those hybrid wars to be successful.
I do not see any serious intention to start a movement of resistance: may be they regret the loss of the Russian bribes, but nothing else. To me (I am not Slavic) they look lazy, spoiled, without any moral convictions, unreliable, ready to sell themselves and anyone else to the highest bid. I would not want to have them around.
Sure there are other ways for the citizens of Ukraine to get rid of the gangsters, instead of taking up arms. This call can by used as a “proof” that Russia is instigating armed conflict in Ukraine and don’t think it helps to “stop the Empire’s war on Russia”.
Since the regime was born in violence. I don’t know how else you think it will fall. As to the other part. There have been countless statements from others like what he said. It won’t have any more affect on the West’s option of Russia .I’m just hoping it has an affect on Ukrainians.
what a great piece of literature – its adorable – I wish I could be there. Someday, DNR and LNR will have Russian passports – anyone wanting to be alive in Russia, instead of being dead in North America or Europe – should go and join the army – kitchen help or whatever – before the war starts.
It simply horrifies me that if I were to join a National Guard here in North America, I would be fighting on the wrong side.
If I could figure out a way to transport 5 horses and 3 huge dogs to Donbass, and to show up there with at least $6000 dollars, which is what Russell Bentley thinks a person should bring with them, if they want to go and join Donbass – then I would do it without a doubt.
The other interesting place to live in the world right now, is of course, Syria. I wold gladly go there too, if I could figure out the same problem as what is stopping me from going to join Donbass.
And people who don’t have these problems that I have, in moving to a new location, and who are miserable in their lives wherever they are now living, are like the western Ukrainians that the author of this article is talking about
MOSCOW, October 24. /TASS/. Russia’s Investigative Committee has opened criminal cases against six commanders of the Ukrainian armed forces complicit in the shelling of civilians in southeast Ukraine, Investigative Committee acting spokeswoman Svetlana Petrenko told TASS on Monday.
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Ukrainian Chief Prosecutor Yuri Lutsenko
Kiev opens criminal case against Russian defense minister, other top officials
“The Russian Investigative Committee’s Main Investigation Department for Investigating Crimes Related to the Use of Prohibited Methods and Means of Warfare has identified the commanders of units of the Ukrainian armed forces, which subjected civilian infrastructure facilities and civilians in southeast Ukraine to artillery fire,” the acting spokeswoman said.
In view of this, criminal cases have been opened against commander of the 57th separate motorized brigade of the Ukrainian forces Colonel Sergei Sirchenko, commander of the 17th separate motorized battalion of the 57th separate motorized brigade of the Ukrainian armed forces Lieutenant-Colonel Alexander Shcherbinin, commander of the 10th separate mountain assault brigade of the Ukrainian armed forces Lieutenant-Colonel Vasily Zubanich, commander of the 55th separate artillery brigade of the Ukrainian armed forces Colonel Sergei Brusov, commander of the 30th separate mechanized brigade of the Ukrainian armed forces Lieutenant-Colonel Ivan Garaz, commander of the artillery battalion of the 30th separate mechanized brigade Major Sergei Martsenyuk, and also against unidentified persons of these units, the acting spokeswoman said.
“The investigation sees the signs of the crime stipulated by part 1, article 356 of Russia’s Criminal Code (“The Use of Prohibited Methods and Means of Warfare”) in their actions,” the acting spokeswoman said.
Subject matter of criminal cases
According to the investigation, on April 17, 2016, Sirchenko, Shcherbinin and other servicemen of the 57th separate motorized brigade of the Ukrainian armed forces conducted aimed artillery fire from heavy armaments against civilian infrastructure facilities other than military objectives in the village of Zaitsevo in Ukraine’s Donetsk Region, which partially damaged three houses, a humanitarian aid distribution center and caused bodily harm to a woman uninvolved in the armed conflict.
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On June 15, Zubanich and servicemen of the 10th separate mountain assault bridge of the Ukrainian armed forces delivered artillery fire from heavy weapons with high destruction capabilities against the territory of the populated areas of Krasnogorovka and Staromikhailovka of Ukraine’s Donetsk Region, as a result of which two civilians uninvolved in the armed conflict were injured.
On July 7, Brusov and other persons from among servicemen of the 55th separate artillery brigade of the Ukrainian armed forces delivered aimed fire from heavy weapons against civilian infrastructure facilities in the village of Zaitsevo in Ukraine’s Donetsk Region, as a result of which no less than 30 houses were damaged and two civilians received injuries of various gravity.
On July 19, Garaz, Masrtsenyuk and other servicemen of the 30th separate mechanized brigade of the Ukrainian armed forces used heavy weapons to shell the territory of the Kuibyshevsky and Kievsky districts of the Ukrainian city of Donetsk and also the village of Yasinovataya of Ukraine’s Donetsk Region. As a result, eight houses were partially damaged and four civilians received wounds of various gravity.
“The investigation believes that in all the cases the Ukrainian servicemen acted in violation of the provisions of international legal acts guaranteeing the observance and protection of the rights of civilians during armed conflicts of non-international nature,” the Investigative Committee acting spokeswoman said.
Investigative and search measures are ongoing to identify all the circumstances of the crimes that have been committed, the spokeswoman added.”
More:
http://tass.com/politics/908388?_ga=1.226041562.1531488177.1475662548
Monday, October 24, 2016 – 14:41
The Kiev businessman and the former deputy of the Verkhovna Rada Mikhail Brodsky, Yulia Tymoshenko’s ally for some time suggests to hold a referendum and peacefully separate from Donbass.
“Perhaps I’m going to introduce a new idea now, but Ukraine has lost this war. Russia has attacked us, has rigidly taken away the Crimea. We have let the Russian Federation to seize the Crimea without war,” Brodsky said.
“Perhaps we should hold a referendum like the Czech Republic and Slovakia did. Let’s hold a referendum in Ukraine and in Donbass and decide that we, let us assume, peacefully drift apart. Do you think it’s a bad idea? Yes, Donbass is originally the Ukrainian territory, but I don’t want my children and grandsons to be at war, I don’t want those who are defending our country to be killed and crippled,” he added.
DONi News Agency
Monday, October 24, 2016 – 12:31
Russia in not seeking to end the Treaty on Friendship, Cooperation and Partnership with Ukraine and is willing to develop friendly ties with Kiev, said the Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov.
“The Russian side’s main task at the moment would be taking actions aimed not at the cutting of the bilateral relations, but at preserving them, creating conditions to revive the development of friendly and active connections between the two states and peoples,” Lavrov was quoted as saying in a letter to Duma deputies by the Izvestia newspaper, reports Sputnik.
At the same time, the minister expressed concern over Kiev’s current actions directed against Moscow.
DONi News Agency
but if the former ukraine is lost-is it worth getting back???????
“Fort Russ Exclusive Interview with Serbian volunteer in Donbass”
http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/10/fort-russ-exclusive-interview-with.html
Thanks Elsi, interesting!
Ongi etorri!
Totally agree with Vatnik!!
No one can do a revoluton on behalf other people. The “to-liberate peple” must say celarly fist that their intentions are to be liberated. This is a lesso USSR learned in 1918 in Poland (they wanted to bring socialism to POland, whereas Poles did not want socialism).
In 2015 there was an exchange of impressions between an Ukrainina irregular combattant and Comrade Mozgovoi (rest in peace). The Ukrainian said that “all of this is shit, we are fighting for oligarchies, lets unite Western and Eastern Ukrainians (Novorossians) anf fight to get rid of oligarchies!”. Mozgovoi answered to that fake rhaetoric with “we already did get free of oligarchy and your masters want to put us again below them, we are defending our freedom whereas you are fighting for whom that wants to impose us again oligarchy. You and we are not in the same position”.
The first rule for a critical situation: if a fight cannot be avoided, hit first.
That’s what the Germans did on June 22, 1941.
Viktor Suvorov this Summer in Russian:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgHkmxIJItY
For Americans, C-SPAN2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj9Geqf3LB8
I suppose you are saying that the Russian leadership, being certain of multifaceted aggression by the USA since the 1918 invasion of Siberia when they committed widespread atrocities against the defenceless Russian people in that region, and also certain that the current official USA policy is to prevent any power to challenge its dominance in world affairs and that Russia has been declared a threat to USA’s global interests and dominance, therefore reaching the logical conclusion “that a fight cannot be avoided”, is entitled to incinerate the USA at the earliest opportunity it sees fit.
I regret to say that I have also reached that conclusion: the USA must be destroyed if ever peace will reign on earth. I would prefer that the Russian scientists would develop a weapon capable of eliminating only the “bad apples” in the USA (all politicians, neocons, Zionists, military and intelligence personnel, banksters, capitalists, millionaires, mass media barons and all their followers and lackeys) but considering that all those “bad apples” encompass pretty well most of the population and the few decent USA citizens wouldn’t mind being “collaterally damaged” for the sake of a better world, and taking into account the likely possibility that no such weapon could be invented, I have to accept the inevitability and necessity of that course of action. With glee.
It’s a fairy-tale story old Steinbeck told in his forgotten novella. “The Moon is Down”.
But the story tells a truth about occupations, and the gradual creation of conflict that occupations bring about. Some may wish to read it – it’s in print.
In the fullness of time this aberrant situation with the uk-o-nazis and their stooges in charge of a pretend state can only be the natural precursor to their removal. That’s the natural curve of history. And obviously only the people can do this. They will fail if nobody helps them. The republics and (I bet) Russia will help. Russian history suggests this to me. Further, It is boilerplate doctrine that no insurgency can survive without the support of a state actor. Russia cannot tolerate a win by nazis, a route and the murder spree that would come with it, can she?
I do not, quite see a “call to arms”. I see a trial balloon. If this bears fruit now, that will develop. If it does not, then the time’s not yet quite ripe. Balloons will rise until they find fertile earth.
Bear in mind that the Nazis control the uk-o-nazi puppets. Those, the Nazis, are watching. If their servants face justice, then the Nazis will be terrified, if you take my drift.
Ah, well, they have made a war. Now they will find, if history guides us, that it is full of unintended twists, turns, loops, and especially delayed secondary aftereffects (DSA’s). These often overwhelm even the finest plans and best military establishment. Pity…
Pax.
his Poroshenko said at a meeting with journalists of leading Ukrainian television channels on Sunday, October 23rd.
According to the president of the Maidan, all who stand today against the Minsk meeting on the settlement of the military conflict in the Donbass, in fact abandon the Crimea and Donbas. “We ceasefire is beneficial. Minsk – is the path to peace. As the president as guarantor of the integrity of the state, I will not let anyone throw Ukrainian territories as the Donbas and the Crimea “, – said Poroshenko. And he threatened: “If Ukraine will come first from Minsk – forget about sanctions. If Ukraine would violate the Minsk agreements – forget about the coalition. ”
Interestingly, this was the only position Poroshenko after the meeting, “Norman Quartet”, held on October 19 in Berlin. Drastically change the rhetoric of the Ukrainian president in the run sequence of points of the Minsk memorandum. Before the Berlin meeting he repeated: first, full control the border in Donbas, and only after the elections, now admits that after all first choices, and then Ukrainian border control.
According to Western media reports, at the meeting in Berlin, German Chancellor Angela Merkel at each attempt Poroshenko balk, leading him into a corner “5 minutes” and something hot cram “tête-à-tête”, after which the President of Ukraine ceased resistance. Maybe it really scared lifting sanctions against Russia?”
http://www.anna-news.info/node/66731
Implementation of the warring parties so-called “road map” for a peaceful settlement in the Donbas can last for five years. So says the former deputy chief of the General Staff of Armed Forces of Ukraine, Lieutenant-General Igor Romanenko. This he said in an interview to journalists of Kiev.
As the general said, “road map” – a series of actions performed, painted by date, with the prescribed penalties for non-compliance. “In particular, if Russia does not fulfill its obligations, in December will raise the issue of strengthening sanctions,” – said Romanenko. He stressed that Ukraine should go peacefully, because of the huge military superiority of the Russian Federation, but in the meantime strengthen the APU and the time when this will work in Ukraine.
“The implementation of the road map for the Donbas may be delayed for five years. This is my assumptions. They agreed that the countdown goes from November this year, “- said Lieutenant General Romanenko. (They – “Normandy format” in Berlin on October 19 – Ed.).
We recall that on October 19 in Berlin met “Norman Quartet”: German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Russian President Vladimir Putin, French President Francois Hollande and President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko agreed to establish a “roadmap” for the implementation of the Minsk agreements to resolve the military conflict in the Donbass.”
http://www.anna-news.info/node/66737
Ukrainian President Poroshenko Monday, October 24 introduced the new Chief of the Intelligence Service of Ukraine Ministry of Defence – Major General Vasily Burba. “There is no doubt that this appointment will give a new impetus to the work of military intelligence of Ukraine”, – said the president.
38-year-old Vasily Burba graduated from the National Academy of Security Service of Ukraine as a lawyer. For a long time worked in the Security Service of Ukraine, he is a member of the fighting in the so-called “ATO” in Donbas.
Appointment Burba immediately caused a wave of disclosures from all sides. Some Ukrainian “patriots” accused him as a member of the acceleration euromaidan where Burba appears as one of the mid-level performers. Other accused as a person associated with drug trafficking in the area of ”ATO” and the murder of the head of the Joint Mobile Group to combat smuggling.
It is known for one thing: Basil Burba – old “office” President Yanukovych frame times. He even awarded the Order of Bogdan Khmelnitsky III degree Burba Major Vasily. It is August 23, 2011. Overall – a rapid career: over 5 years to grow from major to major general, it is very necessary to “get into the stream.”
http://www.anna-news.info/node/66736
all google translate
With 3161 violations of the cease-fire during the past week, including 2477 with heavy weapons, and the assassination of Commander Motorola last Sunday, Ukraine seems determined on resolving the conflict in the Donbass by means of war rather than the Minsk agreements.
This continuing escalation, which has seen the number of bombings increase of 133% in two weeks, has left 12 dead and 14 wounded (five of them civilians) in the People’s Republic of Donetsk (DPR) alone during the past week. On the Ukrainian side, the figures are even worse. In 10 days, the Ukrainian army has had at least 40 dead and 100 wounded, just in the southern part of the front, in attacks against the positions of the army of DPR.
To these losses must be added the 45 non-combat losses of the past week, including 14 deaths, mainly due to improper handling of weapons and friendly fire, and the 25 losses of the Azov regiment, which is seeking new volunteers to replace them.
At the same time, Kiev has sent 80 French and Italian mercenaries to Kramatorsk, and they will surely soon head to the front to replace the recently fallen Ukrainian soldiers.
Unable to mobilize its people, willingly or unwillingly, Ukraine is reduced to bringing in foreign mercenaries, in total violation of the Minsk agreements.
In Kiev onChannel 1, Vitaly Koupry, Member of the Rada, called for making the Donbass a hell on earth in order to make the people leave (I would remind the gentleman that this is no more nor less than a call to commit genocide and war crimes), showing once again the true face of power in Kiev, a power that still relies heavily on the Nazi factions and battalions like Pravy Sektor, that have severely beaten children in Kharkov, for the mere fact of speaking Russian. Some of the child victims had broken ribs or a broken jaw. The police have offered no comment and seem in no hurry to do their job to find and punish the perpetrators of this attack.
It must be said that when the site Mirotvorets — openly supported by the SBU and the Ukrainian MP Anton Gerashenko — offered a reward for killing, capturing or injuring the journalist Graham Phillips ($ 2,000 death, $ 1,000 wounded), for simply being on the side of Donbass, but no sanctions are taken by the authorities, we understand that in Ukraine the law is no more than an empty word.
Because after several journalists have been killed in Ukraine, calling so publicly for a murder, shows the impunity in Ukraine for those who silence dissent. The opportunity for the international community to cover itself with more shame with its silence.
And it is not the Normandy format meeting that was held in Berlin on October 19, that will improve the situation. Indeed this meeting gave birth to a charade.
The various parties, managing to agree on practically nothing at all, brandished a roadmap as the ‘result’ of the meeting in order to save face. For the Minsk agreements were already a roadmap for the peaceful resolution of the conflict in the Donbass; then they create a roadmap to implement the roadmap which has still not been applied, the very image of the snake biting its tail. Without any real desire in Kiev to implement what was signed, this roadmap will remain as useless as the Minsk agreements it is supposed to help implement.
Since that meeting, the escalation continues with 446 violations of the cease-fire by the Ukrainian army, and two more wounded civilians in the last 24 hours. And in the speeches of Russia as the People’s Republic of Donetsk, exasperation and anger are felt more and more.
Their patience has reached its limits, despite their best efforts not to inflame the situation, and this is where lies the danger not only for Ukraine but also for the world.”
http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/10/kiev-talks-in-berlin-escalates-in.html
KIEV, October 24. /TASS/. Ukraine’s leadership is considering Prosecutor General Yury Lutsenko as a possible successor to incumbent President Pyotr Poroshenko in the event the latter’s rating drops too low to run for another term, a Ukrainian lawmaker said on Monday.
“Lutsenko is Plan B for the current Ukrainian leadership seeking to stay in power. He is being prepared to succeed Poroshenko in case his ratings are too low to run for a next term. Lutsenko is working on this project,” Sergey Leshchenko, a member of Ukraine’s Verkhovna Rada (parliament) with the Pyotr Poroshenko Bloc, said in an interview with the 112.Ukraina TV channel.
“In a span of several years, Lutsenko will run for Ukrainian president using his post of prosecutor general for self-promotion and as a tool to obtain contacts with influential people to enroll their support at the elections,” he said.
Earlier, Leshchenko also announced his presidential ambitions. Under the Ukrainian constitution, the next presidential polls are to be held in the spring of 2019.
More:
http://tass.com/world/908447?_ga=1.28057340.1531488177.1475662548
25/10/2016 – 8:00
EU leaders have canceled dinner with Poroshenko without explanation | Russian spring
President Petro Poroshenko of Ukraine “desperately sought” an invitation to the October EU summit, but did not work out. President of the “European” countries are not invited, as the press-conference in Moscow, said Russia’s permanent representative to the EU Vladimir Chizhov.
He stressed that from the Ukraine three years tired of all: “Not only the official Brussels, and European public opinion is tired of Ukraine.”
Indicators of fatigue Chizhov called the reduction of news about Ukraine in the general information flow and the fact that Poroshenko ignored at the EU summit: “We observe this and to reduce the information field on the Ukrainian subjects, and such details: despite desperate attempts to get an invitation to the summit, Poroshenko so before the summit, and has not reached “, – said Chizhov.
Moreover, according to the Russian diplomat, announced in advance Poroshenko dinner with the leaders of the European Union was canceled without explanation.
“Although the reason is obvious: it” successfully “on the planned meeting time,” Norman Quartet “in Berlin. Poroshenko was kept at a certain distance from Brussels – at the meeting of the leaders of the parties of the European People’s Party. In Brussels, he met only with NATO Secretary General “, – said Chizhov.”
http://rusvesna.su/news/1477371725
Poroshenko in Berlin agreed to the surrender of Mariupol and Kharkov – Korchinskiy | Russian spring
Negotiations “Norman Quartet” in Berlin turned into a total disaster for Ukraine – Petro Poroshenko actually “leaked” Donbas in line – Kharkov.
This broadcast «UkrLife» said the former leader of the right-wing UNA-UNSO * Dmitry Korchinskiy.
“Everything went according to the worst scenario for us, and if it is implemented, we will lose not only the now-occupied part of the Donbass, and almost all the Donbass. In fact, according to the agreements reached, the artillery assigned to 50 kilometers from the demarcation line and the missile systems of volley fire discharged from 70 to 120 kilometers.
This means that we lose Mariupol, Bakhmut, Severodonetsk and a number of cities for which, in fact, all the time and there was a war.
There is no doubt that in the case of the breeding side opposite side of infiltrating his military “gray zone”. Once this plan is implemented, there will come Kharkov turn. Then a couple of years to war again in Minsk agreement, and so gradually be converted into the DNI the whole territory of Ukraine “, – said Korchinskiy.
PolitNavigator
Good article!
It is my opinion that a big part of the problem is the people from the Ukraine that live in the west. In Canada they are very vocal in their support for war. You might say they can’t wait to fight to the very last Ukrainian. Of course from the comfort of their safe clean wealthy towns and farms. NATO uses them as mouth pieces. They fool no one but the foolish. They get a lot of money funneled into their orgs.