A year after the downing of a Russian jet over Syria, another false flag attack. This time against Turkish servicemen.
An astute analyses from RoSsi BaRBeRa
Situation/Update Briefing
There’s still very little known about this incident. However, according to the Turkish General staff, today at 03:30 in the morning, an attack allegedly by the Syrian air force in al-Bab killed three Turkish soldiers and injured 10 people.
No harsh words against Russia or Syria came from the Turkish official as of now. However, Western-funded Turkish tabloids like “CNN Turk,” are running ahead of the official response of the General staff, actively circulating an “opinion,” according to which, the attack on the Turkish military coincides with the anniversary of the downed plane and it makes it not accidental, but the result of a planned act of retaliation by the Syrian armed forces of al-Assad against Turkey’s armed forces for shooting down a Russian plane.
This situation mirrors last year’s tragic events, when the same news outlets had “happened” to be at the place of ejection of the Russian pilots and the first to give “detailed” information about who attacked whom. Later, the same news outlet had injected the “correct” version of what happened in the Turkish and world media broadcast.
As we all know, peace in our relationship was achieved after president Erdogan apologized for the incident, and after people involved in the downing of the Russia jet were arrested during an anti-government coup in Turkey last summer.
Back then it became clear that this was the false flag attack facilitated by the armed and security services of Israel and the US in order to undermine good relations between Russia and Turkey.
As we also know, the presidents of these countries managed to come to understanding and cooperation and agreed not to be easily perturbed by the provocation orchestrated by the enemies.
In the context of Syria, Russia and Turkey agreed on the division lines of their actions in Syria and on the international arena. Turkey’s mandatory condition has always been not to create a Kurdish state, because its formation on Syrian territory would result in Turkey receiving a large number of refugees. Kurds when they take over territories immediately conduct ethnic cleansing of Syrians, Christians and Muslims alike. This is already happening in the North of the country. Turkey has also promised that they will accept the Assad government, and won’t make any moves towards Aleppo. All of these, ultimately, was a key agreement reached in the course of negotiations.
Turks went to fight Kurdish terrorists in Al-Bab.
This tri-lateral agreement has became a “bone in the throat” for the outgoing U.S. Obama administration and ultimately resulted in today’s events.
Given that “false flag attack” psy-ops is the most favorite method of warfare for the Anglo-Saxon intelligence services, today’s attack on the Turkish positions by alleged “Syrian” aircraft fits perfectly into the overall picture. The strike by those pseudo-Syrian air force and it’s PR could help US to trick Turkey into a very hazardous situation and to disrupt an implemented by Moscow and the Syrians their common military and political plans.
The question is why Erdogan contrary to the American expectations, acts very carefully and holds a pause.
There are several reasons:
- He understands the true nature of the incident and who is the organizers
- He was called to act “according to the common sense” by the leader of the republican party of Turkey
- Erdogan wants to avoid worsening relations with Russia
- The past summer coup attempt has revealed hidden mechanisms of foreign involvement into the destabilization of Turkey and Syria. That’s why Erdogan knows that there might be some people in Syrian government that would want to see the Russian, Turkey, and Syrian relations to sour.
For these reasons, the hysteria of CNN and others affiliated with US organizations in Turkey failed to achieve their objectives to thwart Russian military operations in the Middle East and to get Erdogan to march against our nation.
That shows that even while fleeing the crime scene, Anglo-Zionists have always try to spit in our soup.
The Turks online say that it’s still not known who was the perpetrator. But I find it uncanny that this airstrike coincided with the terrorists from the Free Syrian Army advancing along the road to Al-Bab.
#Aleppo: #FSA rebels have captured #Ajami and #Aji villages from #ISIS. #FSA has reached the #Al_Bab – #Manbij Road. pic.twitter.com/b350yDymqN
— WorldOnAlert (@worldonalert) November 24, 2016
it also happened simultaneously with the Syrian Army first advances towards Al-Bab. during which it has captured +50% of Hanano housing.
Reported by Yusha Yuseef @MIG29_ an editor for the Arab Source Al-Masadr
“EXCLUSIVE: Syrian Military source to me. Syrian and Russian Air forces aren’t responsible for the AirStike which hit Turkish Soldiers in Syria.
EXCLUSIVE:Syrian Military source to me
Syrian and Russian Air forces didnt responsible of the AirStike which hit Turkish Soldiers in Syria
— Yusha Yuseef (@MIG29_) November 24, 2016
Everyone finds it hard to believe that the jet was not detected. it can only mean one thing, that it was an American F-22
But… here comes another clue to this mystery.
As reported by the Al-Masadr news a US soldier dies due to ISIS booby trap in northern Syria
On Thursday evening, the U.S. Central Command confirmed that an American soldier had succumbed to injuries substained by an Islamic State IED (improvised explosive device) in the northern part of Raqqa province, near Ain Issa.
Previously, Al-Masdar News has published photos of US advisors and special forces present alongside the US-backed Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) in the region. At Tall Abyad further north, US troops have also built an American military base.
Following the death of 3 Turkish soldiers due to a Syrian airstrike, the Turkish Armed Forces responded with heavy artillery strikes in the Latakia governorate in support of local Islamist forces. The Turkish artillery strikes caused the Syrian Arab Army’s (SAA) offensive into the Turkmen Mountains to grind to a rapid halt just hours after it had begun.
With the SAA’s offensive in Latakia temporarily offset by foreign intervention, government forces must now explore new routes if they are to fully defeat insurgents across Latakia.
- Liberal media in Russia immediately expressed “hope” that the Russia and Turkey relations that just started getting better will go back to be very bad.
- Turkey promised to respond to the air strike on its troops
- European Parliament holts to EU membership talks with Turkey, due to Turkish government foiling the anti-government coup
For those Turks and others who still want to be a part of the West. Either you will live in a failed state with the EU and US occupational regimes like Ukraine, Libya and Iraq, or you will hold on to your countries’ independence by holding on to Russia.
@ScottsHumor @Molchan_OFF yet, the "fear" still lingers.moreover,turkish political scene divided into nato and eurasian camps after coup
— %100 milli Μήτσος (@al_attalosi) November 25, 2016
Thank you for your time
Yours truly
Scott
Everything is a false flag on this website…
Especially “Humor-ous” is the wild speculation that an F-22 was involved…since “the jet was not detected…”
Whose radar is going to detect any aircraft flying in Syria… other than powerful Russian radars with a range of 600 km radius…?…Nobody else (other than SAA) has radar on the ground in Syria…
There is no such aircraft…either fixed or rotary wing…that can hide anywhere in Syria without the Russians detecting and precisely tracking it…this was made clear by the Belgian incident where the F-16s were tracked from takeoff in Jordan and two aerial refuelings…Russian MOD presented detailed radar data including complete flight path and IFF (identification friend or foe) radio signature…
Russian radar fix on Belgian IFF transponder is particularly interesting…IFF is NOT designed allow positive identification by enemy radar interrogation…only by friendlies…
considering Belgian two-ship flight plan was not relayed to Russian side as per deconfliction protocol this was clearly a sneak attack…yet Russian electronics was able to read the license plate…only know-nothing couch potatoes fooled by farcical Belgian denial…
I’ve written here previously on the technical details of Russian powerful longwave SAM radar which is very effective at identifying and targeting any kind of low-observable aircraft…especially Raptor which is not actually very stealthy…more hype than credible capability…
Neither Syrian nor Russian side has denied the strike…it is far more likely a slap on the wrist to the increasingly adventurous Turkish operation in Syria…
And offered up as evidence of this supposed false flag is a tweet by some self-styled “Journalist-Editor” who claims to be a source of info on the SAA Tiger Division (special forces)…yet he calls himself “MiG-29” even though this Division does not have anything to do with aviation…
Really have to wonder about some of the stuff that gets thrown about like snowflakes here…
Actually, almost everyone has very good radar coverage of air space over Syria.
The Russian SAM systems and navy certainly have very good radar coverage.
The US/NATO undoubtedly has very good radars in Turkey, particularly at the Incirlik air base. They also could have good radars set up in Jordan, and in the Kurdish and government controlled portions of Iraq. As well as from airborne AWACs style planes.
The Israelis certainly have good coverage of at least the southern portions of Syria, and again could be flying AWACS over Israel and see a lot.
The Saudis have had their own AWACS up in that region at times.
I’d imagine not much happens in Syrian airspace that isn’t very closely monitored around the world.
Would you provide sources that validate your claims concerning the electronic security and detection capabilities of the major players in the Syrian conflict? You make certain claims which suggest you possess detailed information. Or ate your claims simply conjecture on your part?
I don’t think it takes a lot of reading to find that out, Charles.
flankerbandit on November 25, 2016 · at 3:57 am UTC
You wrote: “Everything is a false flag on this website…
Especially “Humor-ous” is the wild speculation that ”
We have a division of labor here. Saker writes military analytic of armed forces battles. I write about false flag attacks and other psy-ops including unconfirmed rumors.
I invite everyone to take a part in researching and solving those mysteries.
Scott. I think flankerbandit makes some valid points. Do you have a rebuttal that addresses each one?
Well, this happens when you rely on tweets from people out there affirming having accurate intelligence information and all that, when you are not in any way able to test this, and you do not know if you are being fooled/used as a “useful idiot”…..
Although, sometimes, I think that who are being taking as “useful idiots” here are the commentariat…..
Tweets for twits
Valid information required until then, speculation or propaganda for the simple minded.
“Nobody else (other than SAA) has radar on the ground in Syria…”
My understanding is the US has established at least two airfields in northern Syria. https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201610041045991523-syria-us-airbase/
Wouldn’t you find it a little bit unusual for them not to have radar there?
“And offered up as evidence of this supposed false flag is a tweet by some self-styled “Journalist-Editor” who claims to be a source of info on the SAA Tiger Division (special forces)…yet he calls himself “MiG-29″ even though this Division does not have anything to do with aviation…”
I have been reading his tweets for some time and believe them to be reliable. The emblem on his front page is of the Syrian Airforce and the pic pinned on his first post is of Major general Suheil al-Hassan of the Special forces.
Meanwhile, a gag order has been placed over the incident by the Turkish Prime Minister’s Office
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/three-turkish-soldiers-killed-in-suspected-syrian-government-air-strike.aspx?PageID=238&NID=106496&NewsCatID=352
“Really have to wonder about some of the stuff that gets thrown about like snowflakes here…”
Agreed!
WTF??
Sputnik and Jill Stein Want A Vote Recount.
Apparently the Russian news site and the Green Party candidate want a vote recount that could remove “peace with Russia” Trump and install “nuclear war with Russia” Hillary.
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/11/24/sputnik-and-jill-stein-want-a-vote-recount/
“Sputnik AND Jill Stein Want A Vote Recount.”
That heading is misleading.
Sputnik is simply reporting that Jill Stein wants a vote recount in certain key states.
Nowhere in the linked article does Sputnik itself advocate for a vote recount.
Trump is such a wondrous heroic man, bringer of peace and kindness to a world at the edge of thermonuclear war. Now I only hope Marine Le Pen wins the France elections instead of the establishment figure Fillion.. I know Fillion says pro-Russian things, but what establishment figures say has no value.. He said he would end the sanctions, work with Russia and recognize Crimea, but that will quickly change either during the campagin or after it when he gets into power and the local oligarchs contants him with bribes.
Stein has miraculously raised more than $2 million in a couple of days to finance the recount. Soros can sleep well now knowing that he wont have to tap into his Precious, his own wallet, to fund the recount /sarc
$4.6 million. It came in at the steady rate, each hour, of $160,000 increments. Traced by those who followed it, to Soros.
The results won’t be changed.
This is just part of the destabilization and program to keep Americans divided.
The entire Liberal Establishment, Neo-cons, NWO cult who are now out of power will work this color revolution, hybrid warfare against Trump, against American society, against some detente with Russia, and to prevent the entire rollback of Obama’s dictatorial executive orders.
WikiLeaks showed the connivance to sabotage aspects of the campaign, and the O’Keefe videos clearly established violence paid for by Dems and Soros were the common form of countering the will of the People.
The battle of the election has been won. The war for controlling the Republic and establishing change in foreign policy and change in the tyranny of government, as well as uniting the society is in its next stage. The election was a Second Revolution.
This Soros recount is just part of the counter-revolution. Stein is tool. She got used.
The will of the people??? 2 million votes above Trump is the will of the people! With that said, Hillary should be president based on the will of the people!
“The Will of the People” (Narodnaja Volja) was a group of Western-controlled assassins in Russia who helped to destablize the Russian Empire. Alex Jones speaks of a ‘tell’ always being included by psychopaths in their conversation and agenda. The ‘tell’ above is what I detect in your post. I want to warn you also, that your over-use of question and exclamation marks does not help the case against you. Kindly consider becoming more rational if you plan to keep contributing to this forum. – fk mod
I think you are overreacting.
I don’t think the rapprochement between Russia and Turkey is going to last as it is on faulty foundations. They are still on a collision course in several ways. Turkey is very much supporting the terrorist groups and ISIS personnel have free movement in Turkey.
Enrico Ivanov on twitter writes:
BOOM! #Syrian govt asked #Russia to officially impose a No-Fly-Zone for Turkish jets over northern #Syria. Kremlin is thinking about it.
From what I read last night the Turkish artillery attacked the Syrian forces “before” the airstrike on the Turkish troops. Most people were saying that the airstrike was probably a retaliation for that attack. Why would anyone think it “wouldn’t be”. Even the Duran is saying that Erdogan is still in league with the US wanting Assad out. There is no way ,no matter how chummy he “appears” to be with Russia that he can be trusted.
There’s a few reasons why it wouldn’t be but there’s so much speculation in this comment i’m sorry I read it.
While i’m sorry I did a reflection is – would we not just be better going out & doing something we are more sure about, like we know washing the car makes it clean?
Erdogan is playing his own game. One of the players in the multi polar world. All depends on what Russia can offer and what leverage they have, as compared to what US can offer and what leverage they have that will help or hinder Erdogan in his ambitions..
Oh yes, Erdogan and the US are in league with one another so much so that…
– the US ensured Moody’s downgraded Turkey (currency war)
-That the US has arrested the individual who facilitated trade between Turkey and Iran in order to circumvent the US sanctions against Iran
-The US backed a coup against the elected government
-Undoubtedly the US encouraged the EU to back of accession talks
– NATO is taking in the coup plotters to the consternation of Turkey
-western media is constantly blathering on about you know ‘hitler erdogan’
That sounds like a typical take down- Not a partnership
And so we should ask ourselves,”why does Erdogan” still play the game with them. Maybe because he wants to win the game,as he see’s it. Certainly he’s two-faced,but even people like that have core ideas that they want to see happen. Erdogan seems to want to recreate (though not in name) the power of the old Ottoman Empire in the region. He is “said” by many to want parts of Syria and Iraq (as well as some Greek territory) to be annexed to Turkey. He wants Turkey to be the major state in the region. With influence throughout the Middle East and even the Balkans. So if you think that way.And think of yourself as a Turkish Sunni Sultan.Then why would you want a strong ,”age old” enemy like Russia to have major influence in the Middle East. Why would you want a strong Syria with Assad in power there.Why would you want a strong Shia Crescent there.As far as I can see it makes no sense for him to want those things.So what would be his best moves.From his point of view,would be to whisper “sweet nothings” into the ears of both the Russians and the US. While doing everything he can to get what he wants for his plans.Working with the US against Assad,working with the jihadis. While making “nice” in words with Moscow.The classic “having your cake,and eating it”.The US is “satisfied”,if not happy. Because he still works with them. He can blackmail or threaten the EU,whenever he wants over the migrants (as he did today,again).He can keep Russia on the string by acting the part of the “shy lover” who just needs more wooing,”oh yes Vladimir,I love the pipeline idea.I just need more time to decide.How about the tourism and fruits,btw”. While stabbing Assad in the back by “still” supporting the jihadis in Syria.And trying to “muscle” into Northern Iraq and “defacto” contol the North of Iraq. Which,”coincidentally” just happens to be the territory Turkey would like to annex from them.
Erdogan playing Putin?
Because Putin is that naive?
I realize that is a common meme- but it’s highly doubtful
After Erdogan’s statement yesterday,that their military was in Syria to “end Assad’s rule”. I don’t think there is much of a question to his playing both sides. It also leaves “little” question left as to which side he favors actually. So lets have no more “oh no really, Erdogan,is Russia’s friend”. That “boat” of an argument started to sail in November 2015. And yesterday they got all the sails up.and left port.
That statement has already blown away on all the hot air.. no one took it seriously
Not even the Russians
http://stalkerzone.org/erdogan-declared-war-syria-just-sensationalist-spin-social-media-analysts/
The only people making hay out of that statement or blowing it out of proportion are people pushing agendas
Btw: Israel at that same time strike Syria.. Striking Damascus. Multiple firings
good thing so many were so ‘concerned’ with Erdogan’s words, rather then Israel’s missiles
Of course it’s advantageous to Israel and the remake the ME agenda that attention is deflected elsewhere
Right Uncle Bob?
http://www.timesofisrael.com/syria-confirms-airstrike-outside-damascus-blames-israel/
“Israeli jets fired two missiles from Lebanese airspace towards the outskirts of the Syrian capital, Damascus, early on Wednesday”
http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/israel/2016/december/why-would-israel-strike-near-the-heart-of-damascus
In two separate sorties, Israeli fighter jets targeted a Syrian military convoy on the Damascus-Beirut highway and a weapons warehouse outside Damascus overnight Wednesday, the London-based Rai al-Youm reported.
Think Erdogan’s bloviating was worse then repeated Israeli strikes on Syria in obvious acts of war..
Or do you just want others to think that?
@ Anonymous
“…Actually, almost everyone has very good radar coverage of air space over Syria…”
I don’t know where you are getting your information…but it is not reality-based…
Incirlik AB is located 100 km from the Syrian border…it is equipped with airport surveillance radar (ASR)…which is similar to civilian airport radar and is designed to to detect and display the position of aircraft in the TERMINAL AREA…ie the airport surroundings…
The Digital ASR (DASR) at Incirlik is provided by Raytheon and has a max “primary” range of 60 nautical miles…about 100 km…just enough to reach the Syrian border…anyone who has done any civilian flying knows that terminal radar is not very good at detecting low-flying aircraft except in close vicinity to the terminal area…so it’s basically useless for Syrian airspace…
http://www.incirlik.af.mil/News/Features/Display/Article/725752/ground-radar-keeps-incirlik-ab-adana-flying
http://www.microwavejournal.com/articles/4689
ASR primary radar is complemented by secondary surveillance which interrogates the aircraft transponder to get a more precise fix…and this approximately doubles the range…but this does not apply to military aircraft which do not squawk transponder codes…military aircraft use IFF transponders as previously stated…
As for AWACS…Nato announced in October that it would begin AWACS flights outside of Syrian airspace…flying in Turkey and in international airspace…they are not planning nor will be quite so stupid to send AWACS planes into Syrian airspace…which would be a serious violation of international law (basically an act of war) and would risk having them shot down…
Even so the flights are for reconnaissance only and are specifically NOT intended to support coalition air operations in Syria…
The Boeing E-3 Sentry radar has a claimed range of 320 km…at its operating altitude…this is not enough to cover all of Syria while flying from outside the national airspace…
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/e3awacs/
There is actually no word yet on whether these flights have actually occurred…Interestingly…the impetus for this move was the disputed Belgian incident…
http://tass.com/world/907937
There is much more to this story than has been revealed…the fact that the Russians busted the sneak attempt so decisively has clearly sent a very scary message to the coalition…again the key factor that caught them off-guard is that the Russians were able to read their IFF and positively identify the aircraft…this is a very big deal…since IFF radio transmissions are encrypted…
The fact that this story has quietly died is also very telling…quite obviously the Russians sent a sharp message about their electronic warfare (EW) capabilities…which were hitherto unknown to Nato…and quite obviously sent them reeling…
Bottom line is that the coalition does NOT have the capability to monitor the Syrian airspace effectively in any means shape or form…Awacs flights can’t be in the air 24/7…and they can’t be everywhere at once…even if they are actually flying…which I don’t know is the case…it is asking for trouble…
The Jordan Muwaffaq Salti Air Base from where the Belgian jets took off is even more poorly equipped than Incirlik…
I can say quite definitively that the so-called coalition has very little ability to detect and track aircraft operating in Syria…other than their own…
I would suggest you pick your arguments more carefully in future…
I enjoyed most of your comment, very interesting stuff. This part stuck out to me as incredibly illogical:
“…which would be a serious violation of international law (basically an act of war) and would risk having them shot down… ”
In light of our current, and recently past, easily verifiable actions, we have already done that. Repeatedly. All over the world.
So this incredibly silly assertion that international law is some kind of restraint on American actions, destroys your credibility, and pretty much undermines anything you might have to say.
Peace.
I think the point is that it had been done through proxies/by stealth in the past.
Russi is not Iraq.
Or Libya.
A war will not be risked with Russia unless enough are willing to die for the hegemon. Can’t see too many mercenaries signing up without believing they’re on the winning side.
Russia will retaliate if Russian planes are attacked by NATO/US in Syria.
‘Proportionately’ of course :-)
I don’t believe at all that an F-22 is invisible to Russian air defense systems. If the F-22 is really so stealthy, the Zios would have used this massively powerful advantage back in October to destroy all air defense systems to force their own no-fly zone, to propel the pant suit to victory.
The Saaaf and the Ruaf have denied any airstrikes on Turkish forces in Syria.
P.S The Turks r illegally in Syria and according to the UN charter can be considered as aggression against a sovereign state. That has never stopped Pax Americana and their anglo-zionist cohorts b4.
IE: Chile. Korea. Vietnam, Idonesia,Iraq, Libya, Syria, Sudan, I can go on and on.
Wake up for these vile fascist’s r going 4 broke. They want it all and to hell with humanity and humans.
The rapprochement between Russia and Turkey and generally Lavrov policy in Syria is a disaster.Turks invaded in Syria and partition the country.Second with one step forward two steps back policy and the continued ceasefire the liberation of Aleppo from the terrorist “stuck into the swamp“The Russian -Turkey rapprochement benefited only Turkey.
Byzanyines: Ah yes the Lavrov hater
It’s not only me,the Russian army and generals hate him too.I suppose that Russin army disagreed with the high treason policy and strike Turks ,like when Russia repatriated Crimea and Atlantist Lavrov was against.
I am afraid, you are completely wrong on this account. The Turkish army blamed Syrian army, yet did not say anything else. Normally, they would have threatened with retaliation.
The Russians neither denied nor confirmed responsibility for the attack.
All in all, it is more likely a little warning to Turkey for not being a little too adventurous by Russians. Just coinciding with the anniversary is, I suppose, a PR move for the Russian public
The Syrian Turkmen commander ,Alparslan Celik who ‘killed’ Russian pilot and the rescue Russian officer is free and live in Turkey.The passive Russian policy cost lives and the prestige of Russia army.
Please just stop. You are annoying with your Russia bashing.
@Anonymous
Russia bashing?
From what I can tell it’s bashing of particular Russians – there’s a big difference.
In fear of repetition – if your faith is strong then annoyance should make you think deeper and if you are correct then your faith should become stronger – rejoice & be calm.
At the minute all you seem to wish for is a hand over someone’s mouth.
Considering that current Kremlin leaders have overwhelming support from Russian people, yes it is Russia bashing. On top of that, every post by this character is a a vaiation of previous one, which again was Russia bashing. Man has agenda.
“Considering that current Kremlin leaders have overwhelming support from Russian people”
Support for waht?
If the Russian leaders cared a damn about the Russian people they would now implement the people’s decision not to have dissolved the Soviet Union.
In Russia itself 57 million were against the dissolution 21 million for from a registered vote of 106 million…forget about Trump, Stein & electoral colleges shenanigans – this was a clear and simple actual majority of all registered votes.
The Kremlin leaders can, and should be, bashed at every opportunity as the choice they currently provide the Russian people is between Capitalism and “Jurassic Park” Capitalism
With your opinion you’ll probably not appreciate the opinion of Alexandr Buzgalin here:
http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=16735#newsletter1
But you’ll probably agree that he’s no Russia Basher (and neither is Byzantines).
Israel to Defend Own Interests Amid Russia-US Efforts to Find Solution on Syria
https://sputniknews.com/politics/201611231047765427-israel-syria-crisis/
As usual, the zionazis are being vague and evasive. Pretty obvious, though, they intend to continue to be a wrench in the works.
Trump’s Son Held Private Meeting on Joint US-Russian Efforts to End Syrian War
https://sputniknews.com/politics/201611231047768695-trump-meeting-russia-crisis-syria/
This perhaps caused the israeli announcement I posted about previously.
Three Turkish Soldiers Killed, 5 Injured in Daesh Attack in Northeast Syria
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201611241047779650-turkey-soldiers-daesh/
The turks initially claimed it was daesh attack which killed their soldiers. Later they claimed it was a Syrian airstrike.
Turkey Confirms Death of 3 Troops in Alleged Syrian Gov’t Airstrike
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201611241047781941-turkey-syria-airstrike/
Their response so far has been cautious.
Ankara Warns Against Airstrikes on Turkish Troops in Syria – Prime Minister
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201611251047821988-syria-turkey-airstrikes/
“”The Turkish General Staff is investigating the incident. It is essential to determine who is responsible for the airstrike and why it was carried out. The relevant sides have been warned that any repeat of such a move is unacceptable… The incident near the city al-Bab will not impact Turkey’s determination to complete Operation Euphrates Shield,” Yildirim told the TRT channel.
Turkey respects Syria’s territorial integrity, the prime minister added, stressing that Turkey’s priorities are destroying the Islamic States (IS) jihadist group as well as preventing Syria’s de facto autonomous Kurdish-dominated Rojava federation from joining its forces between Manbij and Afrin.
Yildirim promised that Turkish forces would not head to Aleppo.
Afrin is currently an enclave in the northwestern corner of Syria, separated from the rest of Rojava by the IS, Syrian opposition and Turkish forces currently fighting in the area of al-Bab.”
Russian Foreign Ministry Spokeswoman Zakharova Holds Weekly Press Briefing
https://sputniknews.com/politics/201611241047780766-russian-foreign-ministry-press-briefing-november-24/
“Talking about the US State Department’s comments about the situation in Syria, Zakharova said that the US’ “rhetoric on so-called facts” concentrates on blaming Russia in everything that happens in the war-torn country.
Zakharova called the US State Department’s assessment of the situation in Syria ‘biased and unprofessional’: “The US State Department has a biased view on Damascus’ actions, but fails to notice crimes conducted by militants in Syria.”
She pointed out that attempts taken by the US and their allies to protect militant groups in Syria equates to aiding international terrorism.
“We believe such explicit shielding by the current US administration and their allies of these armed gangs… is just part of complicity in international terrorism,” Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said.”
Turkish-Backed FSA Steps Up Fight Against Syrian Democratic Forces
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201611241047810050-turkey-fsa-sdf-confrontation/
“The clashes between the Free Syrian Army (FSA) forces and the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) in northern Syria are becoming more violent with each passing day.
The two factions continue to battle with each other in the vicinity of the Syrian cities of Al Bab and Manbij as both sides attempt to hinder each other’s progress in the region, according to Sputnik Türkiye.
And as Turkish artillery and warplanes pound the SDF positions, the military council of Manbij now considers seeking help from the Kurdish YPG defense forces.
Zekeriya Abdulmecit, a representative of the Revolutionary Army group which belongs to the SDF coalition, told Sputnik that Turkish and FSA forces
“The territories that we liberate from Daesh (ISIL/ISIS) are being attacked by the FSA and Turkish forces. They launch strikes against our positions to halt our advance, and we hit them back. Our goal is to fight against Daesh, but we also retaliate against anyone who attacks us,” Abdulmecit said.
He also added that while SDF seeks to drive Daesh from the region so that displaced citizens could return to their homes, but the attacks carried out by FSA and Turkish forces effectively hamper these efforts.
“Turkey seeks to occupy these territories, to spread its influence and its culture across the northern Syria. For example, they already use Turkish language when teaching students in Jarabulus schools,” Abdulmecit ruefully remarked.”
The white helmets are a covert israeli-american-nato front for finance and logistical support of their terrorists operating in Syria. “By way of deception thou shalt do war”.
Not So Pure After All: ‘Black Deeds’ of ‘White Helmets’ in Syria
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201611241047791418-west-syria-white-helmets/
“Commenting on the group’s activities in Syria, mostly on the territories controlled by the jihadists, and its repeated attempts to produce fake information, Turkish political analyst and expert in the Middle East Hasan Sivri told Sputnik Turkiye that the group has an entirely different motive.
It is being used by the Western mainstream media as a tool of anti-Russian propaganda, as the Free Syrian Army project used to be until it outlived its usefulness.
“The White Helmets is one of the cover groups used by the West to finance armed groups operating, alongside other groups, in the north of Syria,” he told Sputnik.
“Similar to the Free Syrian Army (FSA) which has been used for quite a long time as a cover for the activities of various radical groups. Now when the FSA project has almost outlived itself, its place has been taken by “The White Helmets” which are being called the “civil defense,” he said.
The expert also noted that the activists of the group have one way or another taken part in various acts of intimidation in Syria, such as executions and mass murders.
The Syrian pro-government mass media has often published photos and videos proving the ties between the “White Helmets” and jihadist terrorist organizations like “Al-Nusra Front”, among others.
One of the most vivid examples, he said, is photos from the Syrian northwestern city of Idlib, when it was captured by the jihadists. They pictured the representatives of the so-called civil defense group walking along the city waving Al-Nusra banners.
Those people who have been also captured by camera while taking part in the military operations of the terrorists with arms in their hands, are being used by the Western mainstream media as a tool of anti-Russian and anti-Syrian propaganda, the expert said.
“There are reports that France and the UK are transferring considerable sums of money into the accounts of the organization however we do not see that this money is being used for any humanitarian aid to the Syrian people,” Sivri noted.
However it is being used, among others, to finance different armed groups, such as Al-Nusra Front, which ensure the continuation of the war and protract the peaceful settlement of the crisis, he stated.”
This geopolitical brawl is like chicken fight – messy, petty, filthy… We must overcome this dirty capitalist-imperialist system to get rid of this nauseous kicking on each other.
I mean, the whole world will be destroyed before any of the problems these guys are fighting for is solved…
I suspect the Russian low frequency radar systems have no problem detecting F-22s. If it was an F-22, and it was detected by these systems, just a brief hint to Erdogan of what really happened should surely seal the US/Gulen fate in Turkey – in a sane world.
@ falcemartello
“…The Saaaf and the Ruaf have denied any airstrikes on Turkish forces in Syria…”
Another fact-free statement…
Neither the Russian nor Syrian side has made any official comment on the strike as of this writing…neither confirming nor denying…the official SANA news has not run anything on this…
The only source I could find supporting this line is an anonymous Syrian AF source in a news piece by Al Masdar News…which does not appear to be a credible outlet…
also curiously the SOHC (Syrian Observatory for Human Rights)…that goofy one-man show run out of London (where else…HQ of fake news like bellingcat etc…)…is saying the Turkish casualties were from an IS roadside bomb…
However…more info is emerging on Syrian dissatisfaction with Turkish overreach in Syria…both AP and VOA are reporting that Turkey had to halt air strikes in the Al Bab area last week after Syrians locked their radars on Turkish jets…clearly a shot across the bow…although no SAMs were launched…
“…Thursday’s Turkish casualties could be a sign Damascus views Turkey’s advance so close to al-Bab as a step too far….”
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/11/25/turkey-push-for-syrian-town-complicates-anti-is-fight.html
VOA even identified the aircraft as a Syrian L-39…a popular Czech-made advanced jet trainer that also can serve in light-attack role…
“…This is a warning shot to the Turks to stay away from al-Bab. Hopefully it is just that, but it risks a potentially catastrophic escalation of the war…”
http://www.voanews.com/a/turkey-puts-warplanes-on-alert-after-syrian-airstrike-on-turkish-military/3609796.html
Turkish media has been ordered by govt not to report further…
The US position on Turkish advance on Al Bab is that they are not giving their blessing…
“…Turkey’s operations are being conducted unilaterally and not as part of the Coalition effort…” an anonymous Pentagon official told VOA…
All of this points to Russia orchestrating this delicate balance…it is clear that Turkey got the Russian green light to go into Syria to begin with…but on a short leash…
At the same time Syria is not pleased and the Russians must ensure that the greedy Erdogan sticks to the game plan…
The AP piece above gives a decent overview of the whole crazy situation…quite clearly the Russians are using the Turks for their own benefit as it diminishes US influence on the ground…since the US has mainly thrown its lot with the Kurds…who are just as much a threat to a unified Syria as to Turkey…
All of these comments blasting Lavrov and Russia being tricked by Erdogan are completely childish…Russians know exactly what they are doing…and they are succeeding…
“…’The U.S. is going to wake up in 2017 … to find that Turkey has all the local influence and all the local leverage, and we have exactly none or precious little,’ said Jennifer Cafarella, a Syria analyst with the Washington-based Institute for the Study of War…”
Quite clearly we are seeing Russia effectively smoothing out the friction here…Erdogan is straining at the leash…so VVP allowed a small sting by a pint-size L39…as well as letting Syrians paint Turkish F-16s…
The fact that it happened on the anniversary of the Sukhoi downing…and the officially-ordered media blackout in Turkey of the incident is proof that Erdo knows to ask how high when Vlad says jump…
It is a balancing act for RF for sure…but the nuances of this incident clearly show that the panicky wolf-criers here are out to lunch…
First let analyze the facts.
The Turkish Armed Forces delivered artillery strikes on Syrian government forces positions in the town of Nawara in the province of Latakia on November 23. The artillery shelling was aimed to assist Jabhat Fatah al-Sham (formerly Jabhat al-Nusra, the Syrian branch of al-Qaeda) and its allies in clashes with the Syrian army, the National Defense Forces (NDF) and the Syrian marines.
Government forces launched an offensive in northern Latakia November 23 morning in the direction of Al-Tufahiea and Tardeen. However, they have not been able to achieve significant gains against the joint militant forces, supported by Turkey.
https://southfront.org/syrian-war-report-november-24-2016-turkish-artillery-strikes-syrian-army-in-latakia/
DAMASCUS, SYRIA (3:20 A.M.) – The Turkish Army intervened in the Latakia Governorate on Wednesday when the Syrian Arab Army (SAA) launched a surprise offensive against the jihadist rebels of Jabhat Fateh Al-Sham (formerly Al-Nusra Front).
According to a military source in the Latakia Governorate, the Turkish Army fired several artillery shells towards the town of Nawara, where the Syrian Arab Army and National Defense Forces (NDF) were positioned on Wednesday.
While no casualties were reported, the heavy shelling forced the Syrian Arab Army and their allies to withdraw their assault in northern Latakia.
https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/turkish-forces-attack-syrian-army-latakia/
These 2 independent sources provide undeniable evidence that:
1 Turkey invaded the territorial integrity of Syria.
2 Turkey Attacked Russian – Syrian Government forces inside Syria.
3 Turkey a NATO member used force against Russo – Syrian government forces in Syria.
The point is NATO is challenging and confronting Russia in Syria.
What was Kremlin answer?
Moscow hopes Turkey learned a lesson from last year’s downing of Russian jet
November 24, 17:11
”{Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said} “it is very simple to mar relations, but it is very difficult to bring things back to the former level”
http://tass.com/politics/914403
So Russia got the message and needs to think twice before making the second move.
A bomb that dropped at 3:30 Am that killed 3 Turks soldiers it is irrelevant and can change nothing regarding the facts that:
NATO is using direct force supporting militants in Syria.
Russia is too weak to challenge and confront NATO in Syria.
For now NATO is using just one Aircraft carrier at Persian Gulf.
Fighter jets catapult from the flight deck of the USS Eisenhower, a thousand-foot (305-meter) American aircraft carrier, afterburners glowing amber above the blue Persian Gulf, on their way northwest to join the fight in Iraq and Syria against the Islamic State group.
The fighter jets refuel on the way before receiving from coalition partners targets like convoys, hideouts and mortar positions in IS-controlled territories such as Mosul in Iraq and Raqqa in Syria, said Rear Adm. James Malloy, commander of the Eisenhower carrier strike group.
If necessary NATO can deploy at least 5 more Aircraft Carrier Striking Groups and from Mediterranean Sea and Persian Gulf can cripple all Russian Defense Systems and destroy Russian and Assad forces once and forever.
Russia can’t make a dent on NATO unless goes NUCLEAR.
A Political solution is more likely to happen than a Hot War.
a 2:16
The last half of your comment is obviously c-n-p from an unsourced zio-gay media article. Were you too ashamed to post the link to that article[invective deleted]?
I didn’t provide a link because the location of most USA Aircraft carriers is not secret for now, and is disclosed at:
http://www.gonavy.jp/CVLocation.html
So the:
Location of Air Carrier CVN-69 Dwight D. Eisenhower, Air Wing CVW-3 (AC)
Last update Nov 23 was:
21Jul-12Aug2016, Persian Gulf
13Aug-16Aug2016, Khalifa Bin Salman Port, Bahrain
17Aug-19Sep2016, Persian Gulf
20Sep-26Sep2016, Jebel Ali, United Arab Emirates
27Sep-31Oct2016, Persian Gulf
01Nov-05Nov2016, Khalifa Bin Salman Port, Bahrain
06Nov-22Nov2016 Persian Gulf and still there.
But there are more US Aircraft Carriers located at:
CVN-68 Nimitz 21Nov-22Nov2016, EastPac
CVN-70 Carl Vinson 25Oct-19Nov2016, Composite Training Unit Exercise (COMPTUEX), Joint Task Force Exercise (JTFEX), off the coast of southern California
CVN-73 George Washington, 27 Oct 2016, returned to Norfolk
CVN-74 John C. Stennis, CVN-74 John C. Stennis, 06 Oct 2016, returned to Bremerton
CVN-77 George H.W. Bush, 03Oct 2016, returned to Norfolk
These extra 5 US Air Carrier Strike Group Could be deployed at any time near Syria if needed.
carriers are BFT…. BFT? Yea, Big Fat Target… OTAN wants to keep these targets safe…while admirals steam in circles, toot, and shout…while OTAN steams, Ivan does….
“Russia is too weak to challenge and confront NATO in Syria.”
You tell Soros and The Tribe that, LOL.
Anon @2:16
You copy and paste materials from
NOSI – Naval Open Source Intelligence™ | A digital library of …
https://nosi.org/
Planes launched off US carrier in Gulf pound IS militants … (305-meter) American aircraft carrier, afterburners glowing amber above the blue Persian Gulf, on their way northwest to join the fight in Iraq and Syria against the Islamic State group.
Is that’s your morning call assignment, soldier?
Ah, i was wrong. So it wasn’t the zio-gay media the “exceptional”, ” special”, “twice blessed” & “chosen one” was plagiarizing, but a source even worse, even more campy. ;D
Cheers Scott.
I find flankerthief stole “most convincing” prize on this thread. Snatched it from the Jaws of Deception, Paranoia, and Reckless Guesswork.
But how would I or any other layman truly know? We wouldn’t. So I wouldn’t necessarily feel obliged to decide this one in 24 seconds, hours or days.
Clear contradictions are easy to wash out, but they are all over the place and they keep on coming.
The apparent mastery of the entire range between technical minutiae and over-arching (Russia knows what it’s doing, isn’t stupid…..) reality is what convinces me to pay close attention to bandit’s comments going forward, until something radically contrary manifests (if ever).
The capper for me is the anniversary date. It sort of confirms my gut feeling that Russians are up to speed on occulted mind games, numbers, symbols and all that other psycho-weaponry in play. It’s comforting that they are not babes in the woods in that dimension of things so favored by the Evil Empire.
En garde! Watch the backs of your hooded cowls, high priests of the Illumi-naughty!
The turks are not grounded and no mention of the “air strike” on their troops in this article. Sounds like everything back to what it was before these incidents and both sides are downplaying them now. I guess we wait and see what happens over the weekend.
Turkish Air Force Hits 7 Daesh Targets in Northern Syria – General Staff
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201611251047832737-turkey-daesh-syria/
Syrian Warplanes Strike Again Turkish Military in Northern Syria – Report 25.11.2016
“Syrian warplanes have struck again the Turkish military in northern Aleppo, according to pro-militant sources.
The Turkish military camp in the village of Azraq in the Syrian province of Aleppo allegedly targeted by the Syrian Air Force on November 25. At least 1 battle tank was damaged. Casualties among Turkish military personnel were also reported.
Kenan Rahmani, a policy advisor for the so-called “Syrian Campaign” was one of pro-militant sources reported the incident.
If reports are confirmed, it will be the second air strike on the Turksih Armed Forces in northern Syria in two days.
Most likely, the Syrian air strike was a response to Turkish artillery shelling against government forces advancing on Turkish-backed militant groups in northern Latakia on November 23.”
Quote:
Source:
https://southfront.org/syrian-warplanes-strike-again-turkish-military-in-northern-syria-report/
Looks like isn’t downplaying yet, and may escalate further …
a
The Syrians may have attacked a second time, but the source for this info is not a credible one, being one the foreign sponsored quisling “groups”. Best to wait and see if this is confirmed.
There hasn’t been confirmation that the Syrians attacked a first time, let alone a second time
Kurdish media is reporting the YPG/PKK have struck 4 Turkish tanks. This sounds suspiciously like Fort Russ’s claimed airstrike part 2 or is it part 3
http://www.kurdistan24.net/en/news/aa3eea26-196a-4f64-85de-d1a3d066c906/N–Syria–Kurdish-led-forces-blow-up-four-Turkish-tanks
As stated there was no validation of a first airstrike as of yet and nothing to demonstrate a second or third SAA
meanwhile it has been confirmed that Putin and Erdogan have held talks for a second day in a row
http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.ca/2016/11/putin-and-erdogan-two-talks-in-two-days.html
All this speculation is very interesting, but nobody knows.
Just as nobody knows whether the Turkish coup had CIA backing or was entirely a false flag operation. The fact that it is considered treason to doubt the coup is a strong hint.
It is at any rate quite fanciful that Gulen rectors at universities had a large hand in coup preparations.
The problem with all these incidents is that you may think there is something fishy, but the truth never really surfaces, not even years afterwards. Even the bare facts are hard to ascertain, let alone the actors and their motivations.
DAILY SABAH ISTANBUL Published 16 hours ago
Erdoğan, Putin discuss attack on Turkish soldiers in Syria
http://www.dailysabah.com/diplomacy/2016/11/25/erdogan-putin-discuss-attack-on-turkish-soldiers-in-syria
@ Anonymous…November 25, 2016 · at 2:06 pm UTC
“…My understanding is the US has established at least two airfields in northern Syria. https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201610041045991523-syria-us-airbase/
Wouldn’t you find it a little bit unusual for them not to have radar there?…”
These makeshift strips almost certainly do not have any kind of radar…
an airfield can be anything from a dirt farm strip of a few hundred feet…to a 3 mile long monster like Ramenskoye at the Gromov Flight Test Center in Zhukovsky near Moscow…
The US has in fact expanded a crop-duster strip in Kurd-held Rmeilan in Hasaka governorate…in the northeastern tip of Syria near the Turkish and Iraq frontiers…
The strip has been extended to about 4,000 ft…which is adequate basically for light prop planes and helos…and not much more…some CNN footage here…
http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/02/middleeast/syria-isis-us-airstrip/index.html
Officially…the US says it does not “control” this field…since this would be a flagrant violation of Syrian sovereignty…
There is no chance that there is any kind of radar there…not even an ASR which costs about $10 million and is of no use here…and for spying it is basically useless beyond about 20 km…
this is not an all-weather field…it has no radio navigation and landing aids that you would see at bigger airfields designed for use in adverse weather…
No combat jet could possibly use a 4,000 ft strip…an F-16 needs 6,000 ft and an F-15 needs 8,000…even the turboprop C-130 transport requires 5,000 ft minimum…and width of 80 ft…according to the book…
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA391744
there is no way that dirt strip in Hasaka meets that requirement…
Sure a hot stick could land a Herc in probably half that distance if he really needed to…but getting off the ground again is another matter entirely…hot weather can increase “book” takeoff distance by 50 percent or more…due to decrease in air density with heat…which reduces engine power and also reduces lift on wings…thinner air…that’s why it’s called density altitude…
But this is not how operations are run…realistically the biggest fixed wing aircraft this strip could take is a Beechcraft King Air…a twin-turboprop business aircraft seating about 12…USAF operates 53 of the largest 350 model as cargo aircraft…military designation C-12…max weight is just 12,500 lb and its payload is only going to be a couple thousand pounds…depending on fuel load…minimum runway length for takeoff is just over 4,200 ft…so even that is iffy…
http://krepelka.com/fsweb/learningcenter/aircraft/flightnotesbeechkingair350.htm
So no…there is not any radar here…
Look folks… the only kind of ground radar with true long-range capability would be part of a top-tier SAM system…for Nato that’s the MIM-104 Patriot and its AN/MPQ-53 radar…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIM-104_Patriot#The_AN.2FMPQ-53_and_AN.2FMPQ-65_Radar_Set
A good comparison of the size of the ’53 compared to the Russian 30N6E found on older S300 systems can be seen about three quarters down this long page…
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Engagement-Fire-Control.html#mozTocId659890
The Russian Radar aperture size is about 30 percent bigger…and therefore more powerful and longer ranging…but this is nothing compared to the 91N6E “Big Bird” radar that is 30 percent bigger than the SPY-1 radar on US Aegis missile cruisers…
There is nothing in Nato to compare to that…and this radar is part of the S400 / S300 V battalion that is in Syria…
http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Acquisition-GCI.html#mozTocId420074
Also just to clarify a little on the awacs issue…the 320 km range on the E3C is a diameter…so flying outside Syrian airspace it is going to see to a max depth of about 150 km…in other words it can nibble on the edges…
Again…it is important to note that the Awacs kerfuffle was a response to the Russian bust of the coalition sneak attack using the Belgian patsies…it is doubtful that there are actually awacs flights near Syria…other than perhaps Israeli…
It was widely reported that the Germans nixed this assignment after the post-coup Incirlik lockdown…when German personnel were locked out…along with other Nato including US…and further…this Turkey-Germany spat is no doubt intertwined with the catfight surrounding the Turkey EU bid…
But again it is important to keep in mind the context of the coalition threat to deploy awacs patrols off Syria…which was the Belgian incident…clearly it was impotent rage…and this speaks volumes to how badly they were wounded by the Russian parry… with what will go down as an EW milestone…this was truly a very significant event…and is confirmed as such by the non-existent level of media discussion…the hounds have been slapped to obedient silence…
the coalition has been and continues to be very careful to NOT use awacs for its Syria anti-Isis strikes…as this would be seen as a huge escalation by the Russian side and would not be tolerated…
US is aware of the potential for disaster by mistake if the plane were to stray even mistakenly into Russian-protected airspace…the Russian crews manning those SAMs are deadly serious and you can be sure they have the go-ahead to fire away…imagine what the loss of a $300 million awacs ship would do to the prestige of the coalition…
Erdogan has been trying to get a US/NATO war against Syria going for the last four years. Nothing has changed, despite all this back and forth about the coup, and the “deal” with Russia.
Reportedly there isn’t even any evidence that this was an airstrike at all. If it was an airstrike, Russia would know it and so would the US. You can’t hide aircraft in Syria – it’s impossible. Between Russian radar and monitoring aircraft and drones, and US AWACS in the air, there’s no way.
This was just another Turkish or US “false flag” to gin up a war with Syria before Trump takes over and changes the entire dynamic in Syria by forcing the Pentagon and CIA to cooperate with Russia and Syria in attacking ISIS and AlQaeda.
That shows that even while fleeing the crime scene, Anglo-Zionists have always try to spit in our soup.
The Anglo American Zionist nations specialize in accusing others of the crimes that they themselves (or their stooges) has committed. Examples of these false flag “terror” attacks like the Malaysian airliner shootdown; the Britzie 7-7 tube bombing; or the mother of all false flags, Sept 11th.
Syrian Army Less Than Two Miles Away From Al-Bab City Seized by Daesh
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201611251047851569-syrian-army-daesh-al-bab/
“The Syrian army is three kilometers (1.86 miles) away from the northern Syrian city of al-Bab, seized by the Daesh terrorist group, the Al-Mayadeen TV channel reported on Friday.
According to Al-Mayadeen, the army supported by the militia managed to dislodge Daesh terrorists from six settlements near al-Bab, and it is successfully approaching the city, which serves as a base for Daesh militants, from the south-east.
The Free Syrian Army supported by the Turkish Air Force and armored vehicles is also conducting an offensive to liberate the city from south-west.”
Erdogan is a great player, and he wants to show this for other players how important regional power is Turkey. He may also waiting for the new boss in the White House – what will be Trump’s real policy in the region. Till then he will try to avoid any adventure, but not because he is so kind.
Erdogan may be a ‘great player’ but the trouble is that his game resembles nothing quite so much as it does writing in feces on padded cell walls. But I have a feeling you will agree with my post.
What I try to say is that he is using a two edged sword in a very dangerous environment. On one side is the rapprochement with Russia because of shooting down the Russian jet (which hasn’t been forgotten in Russia) and the relentless Russian actions in Syria against ISIL. On the other part is the deteriorating relation with EU. Erdogan knows that Russia and Syria have absolute legal grounds to fight any Turkish military force on the Syrian territory or any other force that hasn’t been legally on Syria. Behind EU is NATO, which keeps an eye there, because Turkey is an important member in the alliance. This gives Erdogan the “courage” if you will, to “play” in such dangerous way. Another one is the renewed good relations with Israel. The cards are indeed very complicated and who can predict what will happen in the next days, months till January and then after.
Sounds more than likely….
the news on the ground just keeps getting more interesting by the minute…
As Anonymous on November 25, 2016 at 4:11 pm UTC pointed out above… Southfront is reporting a SECOND Syrian airstrike on Turkish forces…this time reportedly setting a tank ablaze…here is the link again…
https://southfront.org/syrian-warplanes-strike-again-turkish-military-in-northern-syria-report/
If proven valid this development would be very interesting and deserving of careful scrutiny…
apparently this strike comes as retaliation for Turkish shelling of SAA troops advancing against Turkish-backed rebels in Latakia…Turks opened long range artillery fire from inside Turkish territory and forced SAA retreat…allowing takfiris to retake lost ground…here is the Southfront report on that action in Latakia which happened two days ago…
https://southfront.org/syrian-war-report-november-24-2016-turkish-artillery-strikes-syrian-army-in-latakia/
Alex Mercouris is also running that story…citing Iranian Fars News Agency…
http://theduran.com/turkish-and-syrian-forces-clash-in-syria-raise-tensions/
So what is going on…?…are we on the edge of a major clash here against the Turks…?
Mercouris seems to use this to support his theory that Turkey’s Syria incursion was never greenlighted by Putin…and now the Turk thrust ever deeper into Syria is “setting alarm bells ringing in Moscow…”
Is that really what’s going on…?…well it is hard to tell from the sidelines of course…
But I don’t think any alarm bells are going off in Moscow…and I’ll tell you why…
First I would say look at the American reaction…they are not too pleased with the Turkey ops in Syria either…as my above links to VOA and AP reports make clear…
Not only are they displeased that they can’t seem to juggle the conflicting goals of their two erstwhile puppets…the Turks and Kurds…but they are genuinely vexed that Turkey is in fact moving in a direction that benefits Russia…
Here’s how that works…the Turks have taken a number of rebel groups under their wing for Operation Euphrates Shield…the mission being to block a Kurd takeover of that crucial landbridge between Kurd cantons…so Turks are exercising definite control over the rebel capability…(although it is a fractious rebel alliance…)
For Moscow and Damascus the number one priority is Aleppo…the Turks…by directing the rebels under their control…against the Kurds which is Turkey’s main goal…means those rebels will not be available for defense of East Aleppo…
“…Ankara is unlikely to risk its rapprochement with Moscow by sending its allied Syrian factions to rescue the opposition part of the city….”…reports AP today…
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/11/25/turkey-push-for-syrian-town-complicates-anti-is-fight.html
Really I see some very tough yet delicate realpolitik going on here between Erdo and Vlad…and the increasing grumpiness of the US noises points to an alignment that they are not pleased with…
And what displeases the US most is the failure…now almost certain…of their Assad-toppling project…let’s get back to first principles here…this is what the US Job One has been from Day One…and remains so to this day…(although the Trump camp is almost certain to make a big U turn…but leave that for another discussion)…
So one has to ask…what does Erdo really want…what does he get from toppling Assad…other than a pat on the head from Uncle Sam…which is worth exactly zilch…in fact less than zilch if the US manages to carve out a Kurdish puppet statelet in Syria…
So I find it almost impossible to agree with Mercouris that Erdo is still intent on toppling Assad…what the hell for…?…didn’t Assad and Erdo get on swimmingly until the US kicked off operation regime change in 2011…remember the “zero-problems with neighbors” policy…?
Erdo is a lot of things but he ain’t stupid…he knows where his bread is buttered and it ain’t Uncle Sam or Frau Merkel that’s doing the buttering…
He’s also not likely the type to take one in the bunghole…which is the modus vivendi for those who end up on the wrong side of imperial court favor…
Sure he signed up for operation regime change at the outset and was happy to milk that cash cow until the US ditched him for the Kurds…do you think Erdo is jumping for joy at those airfields…rudimentary as they are…that US is building in Syrian Kurdistan…?…and which will be left for them afterward…?
The Kurd question is an existential threat to Turkey as a unified nation…there are 10 million Kurds there and a de facto state of civil war has been going on for decades…
If the Kurds can get a toehold inside Turkey the whole house could come crashing down…and Erdo knows that…
So what does he gain by playing along with the US-Kurd alliance…?…he gets one in the bunghole that’s what…
So quite clearly there is lots of room there for the RF to maneuver…there is most definitely an opening there…in other words an understanding between Erdo and Vlad makes a lot of sense for both…
RF wants Aleppo which means regime change is over…and Erdo wants to stop Kurd statelet on its border…in fact the greedy Erdo certainly would like to keep that slice of Northern Syria for himself…and there is a Turkmen population there anyway…
So quite clearly we can see that there is some alignment of interests there…Turkey gets a sphere of influence in the geographically vital corridor separating the Kurdish enclaves…while Russia defeats the regime change war…a huge victory…
a complete out of hand rejection of such realpolitik accommodation seems absurd…
Now when we get to the finer points…well the devil is always in the details…
you can’t please everybody…Russia is also having a hard time juggling its Syrian puppet on the one hand and the Turk ambitions on the other…and let’s make no mistake about that…Syria is fully mortgaged to the RF for the next generation at least…RF is the only reason Syria is still a country today…
But how exactly is the Northern Syria pie going to be divvied up between Syria and Turkey…?
So this is what this skirmishing is about I would say…the Turks know they are doing the Russians a favor by keeping jihadists under control and away from Aleppo city…they know this is a very big prize for Russia…and they are determined to drive a hard bargain…
And here is where Damascus might say it’s a step too far…so they start slapping the Turks with now two airstrikes…and counting…
Now the significance of those strikes…it shows that Syrian planes can operate with impunity now in their own airspace…even against the mighty Turks…
Why…?…well because what can the Turks do…?…send in their F-16s…?…not likely…they will be met with deadly force as the recent radar locks make plain…Erdo is not that stupid to order a can of whoop-ass…
The airspace is clearly controlled by the RF and that is the law of the land now…if VVP says Syrian planes can strike…they will strike…and Turkey knows this now…another lesson learned…
Look folks…I have commented in detail here on the technical capabilities of the RF air defenses in Syria…it is a bloody fortress…even a 1000-ship armada is not going to take down this fort…
So there is no use pretending otherwise…RF is in a very strong position militarily in Syria…the political and diplomatic dimension is a bit more tricky…
What we have seen these past couple of days between Syrian and Turk forces is the probing and counter-slapping that is part and parcel of this process…but nobody is going to get up and walk away from the political table as it now sits…
Eventually I would say Turkey will have to give way enough to avoid further embarrassment of being subjected to air punishment by the Syrian AF…which will only continue and intensify until Vlad says that’s enough…and separates the scrapping schoolboys by the scruff of their necks…
Hello Scott: not sure why the moderation disallowed my first comment?
I agree with you that this was a false flag. It is most likely to have been a US hit on the Turkish soldiers- air or land? Not sure.
I wrote about this yesterday at my place after reading through the news and realizing it didn’t add up at all- When it doesn’t add up- There’s a huge problem
<a href=''No Confirmation Of Syrian Strikes on Turkish Mil- One Year Anniversary Date Russian Jet Shootdown
It is not a coincidence that this occurred on year to the date of the shootdown of the russian jet
” The incident came on the first anniversary of Turkey’s shooting down of a Russian military jet on the Turkish-Syrian border.”
A message? On such a providential date?
The other day the PKK/YPG in Raqqa were threatening to quit the Raqqa campaign- Undoubtedly due to the fact that Turkey had been striking them at Al Bab
The US has made quite clear they were NOT supporting Turkey in their endeavour at Al Bab
The US reneged on the promise to Turkey with regard to Manbij
In order to appease/save their proxies the US targeted the Turkish soldiers
The initial reports had this as an ISIS strike- Including from SOHR which would have no reason to cover for SAA if they had done the deed.
The US has every reason to keep this strike on the QT-
Read up on the Adana Agreement- signed between Turkey and Syria
aargh my link attempt failed
I’ll keep it simple
http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.ca/2016/11/southfront-looking-for-confirmation-of.html
Putin Expresses Condolences to Erdogan Over Death of Turkish Servicemen in Syria
https://sputniknews.com/politics/201611251047846382-putin-erdogan-turkey-syria/
“The Turkish military said on Thursday that three Turkish soldiers were killed in an airstrike in northern Syria, although there were also reports claiming the servicemen were killed in a suicide bomb attack by Daesh terrorists.
“Putin expressed condolences to Erdogan in connection with the death of Turkish servicemen on the Syrian territory,” Peskov told reporters.
“During the talks, the leaders discussed current issues of Russian-Turkish political and economic cooperation, including upcoming bilateral contacts at various levels,” the Kremlin press service said in a statement earlier.
According to the statement, Putin and Erdogan also exchanged views on ways to resolve the Syrian crisis.
“It was agreed in particular to continue an active dialogue on behalf of the foreign, defense ministries and intelligence agencies of Russia and Turkey, aimed at ensuring a coordination of efforts in the fight against international terrorism,” the statement noted.”
It is interesting that Sputnik is still including the original turk claim by the turks about the 3 soldiers being killed in a daesh attack. Evidently, they still think the available evidence is not conclusive about what happened. So it is not even confirmed the first “air strike” took place. Nothing at Sputnik or RT about a second Syrian air strike on turk forces that I’ve seen. For now I think these are still unconfirmed news.
But whether confirmed or not, Putin, by offering sympathy, has effectively offered an “olive branch”, I think, and his negotiation with erdogan probably smooth things over, and I hope, prevented a serious flare up between Syria and turkey. But that’s only a mix of speculation and personal wishful thinking on my part. Both Syrian and Turkish forces are converging on the same town with obvious consequences should there be a third player throwing a wrench in.
BREAKING: Syrian Air Force strikes Turkish forces (PHOTOS)
November 25, 2016 – Fort Russ News –
“Three servicemen of the Turkish army were killed yesterday as a result of a Syrian airstrike in the Aleppo province, the Turkish newspaper Hürriyet has reported, citing the Turkish General Staff. The bombardment also injured 10 of Ankara’s soldiers. It has been reported that the bodies of the killed soldiers have been taken to the border town of Gaziantep for an expert autopsy.
On Thursday, November 24th, an airstrike by Syrian military aviation with Turkish troops as its target was recorded for the first time since the beginning of Turkey’s illegal Euphrates Shield operation on the territory of the Syrian Arab Republic.
A military source has reported to Russian Spring that the strike hit Turkish occupation units in the vicinity of Al-Bab, where they, together with members of the bandit formation known as the Free Syrian Army, are attacking Kurds and ISIS.
“Before the strike, the troops received several warnings that Syrian Air Force planes would bomb rebel positions north of Al-Bab. They were supposed to leave this territory of Syria,” the source said.”
Since August 24th, Erdogan’s forces have been engaged in operation Euphrates Shield in the Aleppo province without agreement from the government of Syria.”
Quote
Source:
http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/11/breaking-syrian-air-force-strikes.html
Finally a confirmation of a symbolic air Strike by Russian – Syrian Government coalition.
The damage is minimal. It looks like the S-5 57-mm unguided missiles job.
Turk military were never invited into Syria by Assad govt., so if they suffer losses I am not shedding any tears.
@ Scott on November 26, 2016 · at 1:16 am UTC
“…You copy and paste materials from NOSI – Naval Open Source Intelligence™ | A digital library of …
https://nosi.org/…”
Ha ha…Busted…
Don’t worry Scott…this gameboy is no soldier…as for Russian aces and sailors in Syria theater they are as worried about US carriers as they are about where their next cup of tea is coming from…
Latest…Reportedly Turks now claim Russia has confirmed Syrian airstrike of Nov 24…
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20161126-russia-confirms-syria-regime-conducted-airstrike-on-turkish-soldiers/
Don’t know much about this media outlet…but they claim the news comes from Hurriyet a major Turkish news outlet…although I have not been able to find a piece directly from Hurriyet saying this…
At the same time Fort Russ is reporting a THIRD Syrian airstrike on Turks and FSA..and reportedly involving Russian aircraft as well…
http://www.fort-russ.com/2016/11/syrian-air-forces-launch-third-bombing.html
The cited sources include supposed Turkish journalists from “Ahmed Haber” outlet…which could be A Haber TV…an outlet said to be associated with Daily Sabah which is said to be an Erdogan mouthpiece…as well as a Kurdish SDF source…
Now…what is to be made of the veracity of any or all of this…?
First…we can be pretty sure now that the Nov 24 strike did indeed happen and was carried out by Syria…although there has still been NO official confirmation OR denial by either Syrian or Russian officials…
We can conclude this first of all because plenty of time has passed with NO official confirmation or denial by Syria and RF…radio silence for three days…
and secondly due to the fact that Erdo did call Putin on Friday and both sides released official statements to media…the Turkish statement was picked up the AFP…
https://www.yahoo.com/news/erdogan-putin-syria-talks-turkish-soldiers-killed-172712894.html
Sputnik picked up on the Kremlin statement…saying that Putin relayed to Erdo his “condolences…”
https://sputniknews.com/politics/201611251047846382-putin-erdogan-turkey-syria/
So we know the phone call happened and can assume that neither the call nor the “condolences” would have happened if the strike did not in fact occur…
Now what is interesting is parsing the statements of the two sides…
Both the AFP and Sputnik pieces mentioned the two sides’ intention to continue “dialog” and “coordination” in the fight against terror…
Notably however…only the AFP piece mentioned Syrian sovereignty in the context of the Turk military operation on its soil…
Erdogan stressed Turkey’s commitment to Syria’s territorial integrity…”…said AFP…adding that “…Russia had previously said it was ‘deeply concerned’ by Turkey’s incursion while Damascus has called it a ‘blatant violation of sovereignty…'”
It is interesting to note that this issue…clearly the most delicate aspect of the whole Turkish op in Syria…is given no mention in Sputnik…
So what is one to make of this…the Turkish statement is paying lip service to the Syrian sovereignty issue…while the Kremlin makes no mention of it…hmm…
Of course we all know that diplomatese official statements are as a general rule bland and content-free…the hotter the potato the more anodyne the official statements…(only rarely do we get a real punch thrown…as in Konashenkov’s open warning of several weeks ago following the grave miscalculation of coalition airstrike against SAA in Deir Ezzor…of course this was duly answered by a bluff and bluster empty noise about “we will hit you harder than you’ve ever been hit before” by some cornfed US general of relatively obscure pedigree…)
Still…it is telling that the Turks appear to be the ones making quasi-apologetic noises about Syrian sovereignty…while RF pretends it is not even an issue…
To me this shows deference…even obsequiousness…on the Turkish side…
Now what about the second and third possible strikes…?
Well clearly nothing at all is being reported by the Turkish media…but this does not mean they did not happen… since the Turkish media is tightly controlled by Erdo…
If we assume the strikes did happen…would Erdo be making noises about it…?
To what purpose…?…He knows he would be weakened gravely in domestic eyes unless he could respond forcefully…ie drawing blood…a non-starter…which he well knows…
As I’ve said here before…Syrian airspace is now a VERY dangerous place to anyone who chooses to not play by the rules…
Russians don’t make empty threats like some…after Konashenkov’s warning we have now seen at least one confirmed slap-down…the Nov 24 strike…hugely symbolic timing as is inescapable to anyone…I am sure there are lots of cat-smiles now on the faces of ordinary folk across the vast RF territory…
Again…I have said this before and I will keep saying it…Syrian airspace is now a fortress…first came an S400 batallion…then an Antey 2500 batallion…then the naval contingent with ship-borne air defenses at least equaling those two batallions on the ground…Kremlin has officially stated that Syria’s own air-defenses have been “restored”…and there are plenty of confirmations about actual deliveries…although not detail on what specific equipment…
Folks…Syria is now a fully fledged anti-access, area-denial zone (A2/AD) on a strength I would estimate more formidable than what’s in place in Kaliningrad…
Let’s be realistic…Russia is fighting a hot war in Syria…openly against proxy forces of the US and Nato…The last time we witnessed anything like this was Afghanistan in the ’80s…
In fact the similarities are very strong…in both cases Russia sent a military force to prevent a determined regime change op by the US…in Russia’s backyard…
Russia skulked away from that one eventually…undone by internal inertia and fifth-columnists like Gorby…but now the shoe is on the other foot…
US is now the crumbling empire while a resurgent Russia under VVP is determined to put an end to humiliations and provocations from an obvious paper tiger…
In the words of Paul Craig Roberts…one of the most historically astute men alive today…the US hasn’t won a war since WW2…pointing out that even in Korea more than 60 years ago… a then third-world Chinese army broke the back of the US Eight Army…sacking Seoul and forcing the US forces to the tip of the peninsula…it was the “the longest retreat of any American military unit in history…a broken, defeated rabble…”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth_United_States_Army#Korean_War
PCR gives a snowflake’s chance to Nato in a conventional war against Russia today…he has said so repeatedly and makes a pretty straight case as far as I’m concerned…
In Syria today…the Russians are not going to give one more inch…their moves on the ground make that crystal clear…
Turkey being a member of Nato doesn’t concern VVP or any Russian soldier, airman or sailor one whit…
To sum up…Erdo is playing a sly game in Syria as others have pointed out here…he is an opportunistic predator…better to eat someone else’s kill than to risk life and limb catching your own…
A player like that can swing very suddenly…in fact this is the best-proven strategy in power politics through the ages…
In ww2 the US and Britain watched from the sidelines for three years while Hitler and Stalin duked it out…there is no question the “allies” would have jumped on the German side had Russia not prevailed…
And the list goes on…Italy…Romania…etc…all jumped on Red Army coattails when the wind shifted…
Erdo has been playing exactly that game…he is no dummy…at first he went with what looked to be the better bet…but now the facts on the ground have changed…dramatically…he’s not going to get stuck on the wrong side…
And there will be a losing side…make no mistake about that…despite all the diplomatic talk from Lavrov about the “impossibility” of a military solution…this is empty talk…the moves on the chessboard show clearly that the RF is playing this game to win not draw…
As far as I can see…Erdo has reached the limits of his usefulness to VVP…Turkey is certainly not a gnat militarily…but he is out of his league in Syria…this is a great-power faceoff…
it is inconceivable that even that first little slap by the Syrian L-39 would ever happen without Russian permission…
Let’s keep in mind also that Erdo has been warned before to stay on his leash…it is definitely confirmed by Turkish media that Turkish F-16s were grounded for a full week last month after Syrian air defense warnings…
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-warplanes-to-not-fly-into-syria-after-threat-by-regime-.aspx?PageID=238&NID=105489&NewsCatID=352
Now Erdo goes off the Reserve again and shells SAA from Turkish territory…bang…the reaction comes swiftly…and carrying heavy symbolism…Russia warns only once…
Enough time has gone by since the Nov 24 strike to sketch out at least a dim outline of what is happening here…tellingly the RF and Syrian side has been deliberately slow to offer even a single word…
Now comes Kumbaya talk from Erdo about Syrian sovereignty…coordination…and of course a cordial “condolence” from VVP…
In the meantime Turkish media are muzzled…while admittedly sketchy reports from the field tell us of second and third strikes by Syrian and possibly even Russian aviation…
Those are the pieces of the puzzle we have to work with…more will become clear over time…as usual…either with or without any official statements…
flankerbandit
“Notably however…only the AFP piece mentioned Syrian sovereignty in the context of the Turk military operation on its soil…
Erdogan stressed Turkey’s commitment to Syria’s territorial integrity…”…said AFP…adding that “…Russia had previously said it was ‘deeply concerned’ by Turkey’s incursion while Damascus has called it a ‘blatant violation of sovereignty…’”
It is interesting to note that this issue…clearly the most delicate aspect of the whole Turkish op in Syria…is given no mention in Sputnik…”
Actually it was mentioned in Sputnik, in a different article which I quoted here earlier:
vot tak on November 25, 2016 · at 10:31 am UTC
The article:
Ankara Warns Against Airstrikes on Turkish Troops in Syria – Prime Minister
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201611251047821988-syria-turkey-airstrikes/
From the way these incidents are being covered in Russian media, I’m leaning towards thinking that whatever actually happened, it has now been resolved.
Dear Scott!
You have been honored by Google! Breathe deep, climb up on the stage and graciously accept your ‘reward’!
Erdo comes out of the closet – Turkey in Syria to topple Assad:
https://www.rt.com/news/368601-erdogan-syria-oust-assad/
@ David on November 30, 2016 · at 5:30 pm UTC
“…So this incredibly silly assertion that international law is some kind of restraint on American actions, destroys your credibility, and pretty much undermines anything you might have to say…”
Well…”peaceful” Dave…
Your comments are highly “in-your-face”…to put it politely…
And your logic also leaves something to be desired…
My posts here are covering both technical aspects related to aviation…as well as the overall political situation…for which I am admittedly less qualified…
So if you don’t agree with my take on the political situation…it hardly relates to my “credibility” on the technical aspects…
I will pose a challenge to you…if you have doubts about my technical info then please articulate them…and I will be pleased to clear up point by point…
As for my take on the political dimension…I will just say that I have said here several days ago that the Syrian airstrike on Turkish troops would have been inconceivable without Russian permission…see comment @ flankerbandit on November 27, 2016 · at 1:31 am UTC…
“…it is inconceivable that even that first little slap by the Syrian L-39 would ever happen without Russian permission…”
This is an important conclusion that is supported by a real political expert interviewed yesterday on RT…
https://www.rt.com/news/368601-erdogan-syria-oust-assad/
The expert…a professor of international relations at Lebanese University…said the same thing…
At about the 5:00 minute mark of the interview…he says…paraphrasing here…”the Syrian air raid could not have taken place without the support of Russia itself…”
Now as for your argument about International Law and how it is no impediment to US military action…
Well this is quite true on the surface…the US will hit at will with airstrikes…cruise missiles etc…even massive ground invasions like the Iraq invasion of 2003…without any regard to international law…
However…they key point you are missing is that the US strikes illegally only when it has very little risk of retaliatory damage to its forces…in other words soft targets like Yemen…and a very long list of many more over the years…
This is not the case in Syria…not anymore…as I have explained in some technical detail…the Russian and Syrian air defenses on the ground and on the Russian naval ships offshore are virtually impregnable…this is now a full-fledged anti-access, area-denial (A2/AD) zone…
This fact is proved by the behavior of the Turkish aviation…which has declined to mount a retaliatory strike against the Syrians…quite simply because they would lose airplanes…so this is not an option…this is also reiterated by the same professor in the same clip (earlier on) where he says that Erdogan can do nothing about it…and is why he is now in a ‘roid rage…
As I have pointed to in my links to Western and Turkish media…VOA and Hurriyet…the Turks had to stop their F-16 flights in support of their Syria operations altogether for a full week last month…after repeated locks by Syrian air defense radars…these were warnings…and they have been taken seriously…
Those same sources also report that coalition sorties have also dropped off in the same time frame…so those warnings have been taken seriously…
These are the facts in the air over Syria…and it points to a very clear picture that Russians have the last word on who flies where and when over Syria…
There is of course a more delicate political and diplomatic dimension here…the RF is not simply going to start blasting coalition planes out of the sky…however it is very clear to this observer that the coalition is very mindful now that they cannot do as they please in the skies over Syria…they are on an ever shorter leash…
Thanks for participating…good luck in your peace-building efforts…
@ Uncle Bob 1 on November 30, 2016 · at 7:52 pm UTC
“…So lets have no more “oh no really, Erdogan,is Russia’s friend…”
UB1…I don’t think anyone ever thought that Russia and Turkey have suddenly become friends…
However…it is worth noting that talk is cheap…Erdogan’s bluster means nothing…just as his flattery of “my friend Putin” a few months back…”
I would also like to make an overall comment here that I think many would agree with…we the members of the public…have no way of knowing the full nature of the political dimension is in Syria…
Maybe someday when Victor Victor Papa writes his memoirs…but for now information is being released very parsimoniously by all sides…
So we are all guessing…and much of the guessing is about the wild card Erdogan…he is particularly inscrutable…
However…we can and should look at actions more than words…the Syrians DID hit the Turks with an air raid on Nov 24…(possibly a couple more…I see Erdo’s impotent rage as an indicator that is tilting the needle in the direction that those unverified airstrikes did happen…)
The Turks have not been able to strike in return…says a lot…
Now we see East Aleppo completely collapsing with speed that nobody could have anticipated even a few days ago…btw here is an excellent video showing the Aleppo military map in time sequence over the last months and days…excellent graphic and kudos to this guy…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SetPBZ9Mogc
Here’s another report expressing surprise at this sudden jihadist collapse…
http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-backed-rebels-face-rout-in-aleppo/5559552
So let’s stop and think here for a minute…Aleppo is now almost certain to fall into government control much more quickly than anyone thought…
This is huge…it literally means the defeat of the US-led coalition in Syria…boom…
At the same time we plainly see just how careful the coalition and Turks are in respect to the airspace in Syria…they are acting like they are hog-tied…
So what wildman Erdo says or does not say is not that important…the facts on the ground…and in the skies…over the coming days and weeks will tell a lot more…
For this observer I think we are seeing a historical turning point…VVP has called the empire’s bluff in Syria and has slowly and methodically painted them into a corner…only full-out victory remains…
Who cares. Turkey has invaded Syria without the Syrian government’s permission. Why the concern over a small number of soldiers when 100s of thousands have died in the war – and in part due to Turkey’s heavy support of the militants/terrorists.