I won’t make this one long or analytical. I am sure that somebody will do that within the next 24 hours. But I will say this: the Ukrainians blackmailed Russia over gas, and that created North Stream and South Stream. The Bulgarians decided to cave in to the Eurobureaucrats and that created today’s deal with Turkey. For 63bcm. Which happens to be the maximal output of South Stream. But that is all short term. The long term is this: Russia is creating a unified gas distribution network which will be able to send gas from anywhere in Russia to any part of the Russia border.
[Sidebar: The real market for Russian gas will not be a dying EU economy, but the growing and energy hungry mega-market of China. Russia is also selling China it’s top-of-the-line S-400 missiles which is a nightmare come true for the US and Taiwan. And all of this involves huge sums of money, immense projects and a deep strategic alliance for decades into the future.]
As for Turkey, this “faithful” NATO member and US ally, it was more than happy to backstab the EU which had denied it membership for decades. Not only did Turkey sign a deal with Gazprom, it also agreed to have Russia essentially built its entire nuclear industry. Russia and Turkey also agreed to boost trade and tourism. Politics is politics, but business is business. Nothing personal here, but Uncle Sam can go and… well, you know what :-)
As for the clueless Europeans, they appear to be literally speechless. Especially the clueless Bulgarian and Serbian politicians who look like idiots and will have to do a lot of explaining to their own people.
The German economy is hurting because of the interruption of trade with Russia and Merkel is in very hot water. Just like Hollande who has to explain why France is now looking at huge losses over the Mistral debacle.
The way I see it, not only did Russia not lose anything, Russia achieved two crucial things: she now firmly put Turkey into her corner (not a trivial achievement if you look at the issues of the future of Iran and Syria) and she created a situation in which EU sanctions only hurt the EU. How one can present that as a defeat for Russia is beyond me.
As for the bad old USA, they are busy sabotaging their own shale gas industry and undermining Saudi Arabia by keeping the oil prices down. What kind of long-term strategy is that? It is sustainable?
Finally, while the Empire still talks about sanctions, Russia is busy buying gold. Lots of gold.
You might wonder what Kiev is doing. Cutting it’s gas consumption in half (leaving a large part of the population without heat or hot water) and stealing the pensions from the people of the Donbass. But Kiev has nothing to worry about, Lithuania promises to help :-)
So you still think Russia is losing this one?
The Saker
Fresh smart moves by Putin in the geopolitical field
What do they mean
http://failedevolution.blogspot.gr/2014/12/fresh-smart-moves-by-putin-in.html
I feel sorry for Serbia.
in fact, it seems very strange as an amateur are the United States and the European Union on its strategy … is just bizarre
I’m speechless!, I thought walking away from the Mistral paperweights would be the next strategic move!
Yet another chess move in bending “South Stream” into Turkey!
Turkey is a NATO member which is interesting in itself. Accordingly, i’m a bit worried about turkeys reliability as a partner with and definitely after Erdogan. So far turkey and specifically him have been shunned by the west (and eu) so i see his motivation. After him it is a toss up. You know they are coming for him (color revolution). I guess that being said turkey’s got bigger balls than bulgaria but then again who doesn’t. Serbia should pay attention to turkeys EU history. I am interested if turkey can reposition themselves to be not as anti-assad now that their gas problem may be resolved. There have been articles about isis being logistically assisted by turkey and obviously this would be a place to start (or specifically stop). I can see this happening and turning their back on Saudi but i can’t seem to buy turkey being friends with Iran. It would definitely stabilize the region if turkey joined Syria, Russia, (Iraq ? because of US influence) and Iran in combating ISIS and would give a Sunni face to that coalition as a result lowering recruiting prospects for ISIS based on sectarian hate.
Yes, I too would wonder about Turkey’s reliability….but surely Putin has taken that into consideration…also, innocent until proven guilty is part of Putin’s strategy.
In economic terms I easily see this as the right move for Turkey.But in political terms I’m more concerned.Turkey is a bit schizophrenic,it has fair relations with Iran.And growing,as we see,relations with Russia.But on the other side, it is in bed with the Sunni cause to destroy Assad,Russia’s ally.And seems to look the other way,or even aid ISIS,against Syria and Iraq.Again,friends of Russia and Iran.While I’d like to see them leave the “dark side” and come over to Russia’s side,or least be neutral.I’m not sure how that can happen, considering their other interests.
Uncle Bob
Unfortunately Russia does have her back to the wall. They could ride out the EU/US sanctions eventually but domestic politics at home would not allow it, hence the Turkey deal.
Turkey was never a NATO member out of need. They just took advantage of the situation.
Interesting times but this time the common man has access to an unfettered news source … the internet.
The internet is a game changing entity that the west is still struggling to come to terms with and so far it is failing.
Washington, Brussels or NATO can make all the press releases they want but often as not they are being met with derision and ridicule.
Who won? Who lost? Everyone involved has lost so far. We will know in March who won.
Dave.
Could you clarify your remark about “clueless Serbian politicians”? I was born in Bulgaria and I am only too aware of what a servile, traitorous bunch BG politicians are, but I had been under the impression that Serbia was resisting EU pressure re: sanctions and South Stream.
That said, don’t hold your breath waiting for Bulgarians to hold the scumbags accountable or to receive an exlanation. Bulgarians as people have perfected the ability to replace one set of unaccountable scumbags with worse set of thieving and unaccountable scumbags, even as they get poorer and poorer and ever more desperate. According to the latest survey, 78% of Bulgarians are Russophiles, yet they managed to elect another set of Russophobe scumbags in October. To say that today I feel humiliated is an understatement. I love my place of birth, but for years now humiliation, anger, incredulity, and shame are almost daily companions. Today, Bulgarians paid for the “privilege” of being a colony.
This seems to be something like a dangerous “check” for anglozionists…
Should we expect them to be good loosers?
I suspect the Russian access to the Med was discussed as part of the Turkey deal. I dont know what conditions exist at present but having an ‘ally’ at that choke point cant hurt.
Like Saker I will wait for the deep analysis to come in the next day or two, and it will be juicy for sure – there are a mass of ramifications in this move. I would like to add one extra perspective to this situation.
I listened to Dmitry Orlov’s interview that was linked here recently (yesterday?). What made the transcript excerpt was his conclusion that Russia will do things suddenly, without any warning, because that’s the Russian style – not to threaten and reveal position, but simply to act (as Saker has long told us).
What didn’t make it in a transcript was Orlov’s statement that Russia as an economic force is not going to compete with China over mass consumer goods, or with Germany over industrial products, but that where Russia really excels is in major projects – dams, pipelines, infrastructure on a geo-political scale. I find both these concepts echoing loud as a bell throughout this whole Turkey story.
Orlov’s interview is here:
Russia’s Patience is Wearing Thin
We are moving into that gratifying period for the armchair supporters of the good guys where Russia will reveal by stages the conclusions it has reached from the events of this year. I’m already impressed.
I had posted another article on how Russia could stabilize the Ruble using Gold but we know that wont happen without a regime change in many Russian institutions connected to the IMF and US
FED. But they are doing the next best thing. Since the Russia government controls the budget and revenue from exports.
We already know Russia was buying all the locally produced Gold for many years now. But we ignored it because….
Very few people understand what Putin is doing at the moment. And almost no one understands what he will do in the future.
Putin is not shouting about it all over the world. And of course, he still accepts US dollars as an intermediate means of payment. But he immediately exchanges all these dollars obtained from the sale of oil and gas for physical gold!
To understand this, it is enough to look at the dynamics of growth of gold reserves of Russia and to compare this data with foreign exchange earnings of the RF coming from the sale of oil and gas over the same period.
Not so long ago, British scientists have successfully come to the same conclusion, as was published in the Conclusion of the U.S. Geological survey a few years ago. Namely: Europe will not be able to survive without energy supply from Russia. Translated from English to any other language in the world it means: “The world will not be able to survive if oil and gas from Russia is subtracted from the global balance of energy supply”.
Thus, the Western world, built on the hegemony of the petrodollar, is in a catastrophic situation. In which it cannot survive without oil and gas supplies from Russia. And Russia is now ready to sell its oil and gas to the West only in exchange for physical gold! The twist of Putin’s game is that the mechanism for the sale of Russian energy to the West only for gold now works regardless of whether the West agrees to pay for Russian oil and gas with its artificially cheap gold, or not.
China recently announced that it will cease to increase its gold and currency reserves denominated in US dollars. Considering the growing trade deficit between the US and China (the current difference is five times in favor of China), then this statement translated from the financial language reads: “China stops selling their goods for dollars”.
Thus, China will replace all the dollars that it will receive for its goods not only from the US but from all over the world with something else not to increase their gold currency reserves, denominated in US dollars. And here is an interesting question: what will China replace all the trade dollars with? What currency or an asset? Analysis of the current monetary policy of China shows that most likely the dollars coming from trade, or a substantial chunk of them, China will quietly replace and de facto is already replacing with Gold.
In chess the situation in which Putin has put the West, led by the US, is called “time trouble”.
Thus, Russia poses a real threat to the American model of petrodollar world domination.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/article/grandmaster-putins-golden-trap
Turkey now has a door opened for it to go SCO. And for it be a major hub for Eurasian Economic Belt development.
Also, NATO can’t twist its arm about anything.
And Russia just bought Syria some more time.
So, it looks like that evil ex-KGB man has “poisoned” the Hegemon’s plans. He’s stuck the Bulgarians with their own umbrella, too.
Damn, he’s a dangerous GO player. The Norwegian’s have the top chess player, but Russia
holds ‘sente”.
I don’t understand why Bulgarian and Serbian politicians blackmailed Russia over South Stream. They are losing jobs, profit from transit of gas and opportunity to reduce dependence on Ukrainian sick terrorist regime (South European countries depend on Ukrainian route for 80-100%).
Serbia also was making obstacles in Russian humanitarian center in Niš and increased pressure on Gazprom’s profitable energy business in Serbia which gives Serbia 15% of state budget income. Why they doing this, basically shooting in their own foot?
I came across a video of Serbian foreign minister Dačić making “speech” during his recent visit to Argentina. Is these people who represent Serbia today?
Inteligente,muito inteligente o senhor Putin acabe com o ramo sul e os países da europa oriental que seriam beneficiados pelo mesmo vão se queixar com bruxelas por suas políticas erradas e assim a discordia e descontentamento destes países afetados por estas politicas kamikazes da união européia vão querer pular fora deste navio que vai de encontro com um iceberg
This is all fantastic news for a long game… Russia will hurt short term but as Russians they will say it is all bad, but it is not! It is bad for Russians wanting ipods for ever nook and cranny. But for quality of life which is not materialistic only, this would in effect increase the quality of life for a large number of people in the world. Everyone only looks at themselves.. But imagine this, for people making $5 or $10 a day, how can they ever find a better life if all their money goes on transportation and food? Energy costs are the bulk of what one spends their money on. China dont have a problem with high gas prices because they export so much but other countries like India have really slowed down because they cant afford to buy oil for $100 a barrel. This might not seem like much but look at it this way, if you have to spend $2 of that $10 a day on transportation, you are spending a major amount on trying to find way to buy oil. An extra $1 means it directly adds to the GDP in many other ways. That money is not sent to the Saudi kings.
This is where it gets interesting.. Since for growth, energy costs are a big part of making or growing anything. Europe would have to pay over $10 for US gas and around $20 for gas from Qatar.. They were paying less than $5 for gas from Russia. If Europe is spending $100 to build a TV at $20 gas and China can build it for $50 and India for $50.. Europe is going to lose market share everywhere on the planet except in Europe. US wont care because they will always get cheap stuff form everywhere..
Europe just slit their own throats. Maybe thats what the US wanted.. for the EU to be a protectorate of the Empire.. It was the tactic the British used in their colonies, India which is surrounded by water on 3 sides did not have any salt. The only salt was sold by the British. So a country that could produce salt instead bought that very same salt for 10 times the price. So the British got rich and colonies got poorer. That only works for the Empire and it looks very much like the EU is an anglo saxxon colony now. They might have the highest standard of living at present but in 50-100 years, With energy prices twice what others on the planet are paying, they will end up just like how the British slowly destroyed the worlds largest industrial base in the 1700’s to make it a poor desolate country with no industry and utter poverty..
And when people say India is such a miserable place and you are European.. Just imagine that.. Your children will be living in their own miserable place in 100 years.. because if a country that had a 3rd of the the worlds industrial capacity to pretty close to 0% in a few hundred years, its not magic.. It can only happen from within.. Traitors in your midst who undermine your own.
Putin against out maneuver Obama again. He makes Obama Osama look like a kid playing at politics.
What if this is some sort of trap or stalling technique, just like Erdogan’s “reconciliation” with the Kurds (while allowing ISIS to attack the Kurds in Syria from Turkish territory)?
Erdogan has been one of the principal causes of instability in the Middle East in recent years, allowing the same type of Islamic extremists that fought Russia in Chechnia to pass through Turkey’s borders into Syria. He’s also sent weapons to Islamic extremists in Nigeria.
Turkey supports Ukraine as well, and was trying to stir up trouble in Crimea from the very first stages.
Also… this Russian technique of “not threatening, but simply acting” is effective at surprising the other side, but it doesn’t allow the EU public the time to make a decision about their leaders. Maybe the South Stream battle could have been won if Russia had bothered to spent the time on a strong PR campaign, with the Turkish deal there as a clear alternative for the voters.
On the other hand, despite all the potential negatives – I’m guessing that Russia feels it doesn’t have much time to waste, and has to move quickly.
The Russians are playing the ziofascist west the way Israel plays them.
“As for the bad old USA, they are busy sabotaging their own shale gas industry and undermining Saudi Arabia by keeping the oil prices down.”
Precisely what Israel wants. The USA being Israel’s premier colony, what the USA does is a good indicator of what Israel will be having the rest of their zionazi colonies doing soon after. The USA is the zionist testbed now, Britain been long replaced.
вот так
William Engdahl: Religious wars have historically been the most savage of all wars and this one is no exception, especially when trillions of dollars in oil and gas revenues are at stake. Why is the secret Kerry-Abdullah deal on Syria reached on September 11 stupid? Because the brilliant tacticians in Washington and Riyadh and Doha and to an extent in Ankara are unable to look at the interconnectedness of all the dis-order and destruction they foment, to look beyond their visions of control of the oil and gas flows as the basis of their illegitimate power. They are planting the seeds of their own destruction in the end. –
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2014/10/24/the-secret-stupid-saudi-us-deal-on-syria/
Many probably don’t realise this, but Russia is Turkey’s largest trading partner. From CIA figures:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/tu.html
Exports – partners:
“Germany 8.6%, Iraq 7.1%, Iran 6.5%, UK 5.7%, UAE 5.4%, Russia 4.4%, Italy 4.2%, France 4.1% (2012)
Imports:
$242.9 billion (2013 est.)
country comparison to the world: 22
$228.6 billion (2012 est.)
Imports – commodities:
machinery, chemicals, semi-finished goods, fuels, transport equipment
Imports – partners:
Russia 11.3%, Germany 9%, China 9%, US 6%, Italy 5.6%, Iran 5.1% (2012)”
While a member NATO, and a long term political toy of western aggression against the east, Turkey is dependent on both the east and west economically.
Russia is being consistent in that they separate politics and business when their business partner agrees to do the same. This is part of the “Putin strategy” of dealing squarely with other countries. It’s quite obvious the current Russian guv has studied the mistakes of the previous Soviet guv with regard to foreign/economic relations and is putting what they learned into practice.
Leave the dogma to the dogs and the “with us or against us” queens, and work on more practical approaches. The zionazi west, being hell bent on controlling the world, no longer has that luxury. Their world is built upon total control. With them, one is in all the way or it’s “regime change” time.
вот так
EU should eliminate Merkel (physically or not)and turn 360 degree around to Eurasian. But only “alive’ human beings can do this, not walking “zombies”.
“This [Ukraine] conflict is not to be solved militarily. This would lead to a military engagement with Russia which would with certainty not be a local one. On the other side, one cannot say: Because we cannot solve [this] militarily, we cannot solve it at all… What do we have now for means? We have the question of our economic strength, and now we are asked to accept also disadvantages for ourselves by the sanctions. However, I believe, economic power is already a strength of the western states, and, therefore, we should use them at this point – but not as an end in itself. Now there is the question: How long must one wait?.. I have there quite a sure feeling that the basic direction is right and that the biggest danger is that we can be divided – in Europe or also in the world.”
http://johnhelmer.net/?p=12232
Its obvious that this Turkey deal is a big win for Russia and I have come to expect Putin to run rings around Obamerkel & co. What is more interesting for me is where this leaves Syria and whether Turkey is signaling a major shift.
Turkey can offer Russia far more than Syria. But in my heart of hearts I don’t believe Putin would stab Assad in the back, he does seem to have principles.
Which opens a very interesting question. Is Erdogan, having been ill treated by NATO, the EU and the US for so long, switching sides?
The EU has been leading Turkey down the garden path for a few decades now. While the US is busy setting up Kurdistan right on Turkey’s border. Meanwhile, Erdogan is threatened with coups and color revolutions at home. Perhaps given that there is now another Caliph in town Erdogan has given up his neo-Ottoman dreams and is willing to deal with Syria/Assad.
This deal is either a minor geopolitical tremor or an earth shattering megaquake. I don’t see any in between.
Yes its a big win for Russia in the sense that Russia gets to sell its gas and Europe gets egg on its face. But if thats all, it does not change the geopolitical landscape.
On the other hand if Turkey switches sides …! I can’t imagine the Turkish military allowing Turkey to do so, but we can dream. Is it possible that Turkey may even leave NATO?
Serbia is essentially an occupied country and ruled by NATO-bred and controlled traitors and the usual ilk of globalist lawyers and buerocrats. Stop wondering, just accept the fact – there is no Putin there, nor any voyvodas from times long gone.
This is an interesting development for sure.
Me being just the casual observer, I see two things most of all
a) On one hand, Turkey is something like the main antagonist to Assad and that way also to russia. Having their nuclear energy sector developed by russia and striking such a major gas deal somehow contradicts this conflict. Maybe some kind of agreement has been found on the future of syria. But even if, the NATO status of Turkey sure makes the military situation and any agreements on the political future of syria kind of dubious…
b) a great move against the EU and NATO as well, most of all, it seems to me, against germany. Erdogan sees himself as the major player in the middle east, and he’s so obviously dreaming of a new golden turkish era and of himself as the great sultan of it all. Now, he’s got some means to pressurize the EU and Germany economically, because if they want russian gas, they can get, but have to negotiate with their unloved ally ;-). That will be a pain in the ass compared to the former deals with russia, I’m sure! Also, giving Erdogan the means to rise somewhat higher in his dreams of a grand turkish sultanate, they make turkey more of an unreliable NATO member, pursuing their own goals in the ME and not NATOs. Being a direct neighbor, I’m sure, regarding turkey becoming a loose cannon, russia counts on their more direct influence because of geographical proximity (compared to the US).
Who knows what Erdogan might do next? Maybe on night a divine inspiration tells him to cancel NATO base contracts ;-)) lol.
Interesting development, I can’t make much sense of it, though.
An article on Russia and Ukraine.
http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/46680.html#more-46680
In the context of ramifications for the Middle East – and especially Israel-Saudi, there is a radically different possibility than that contained in Saker’s statement:
As for the bad old USA, they are busy sabotaging their own shale gas industry and undermining Saudi Arabia by keeping the oil prices down. What kind of long-term strategy is that? It is sustainable?
Tyler Durden has that couplet precisely the other way around, ie that it is Saudia Arabia(in cahoots with Israel) that is seeking to destroy the US Shale/Fracking industry.
The scientists conclude that Europe cannot survive without Russian gas.
The US politicians interpret this to mean that the only solution is regime change in Russia, which will open the door to the many corporations who wish to plunder Russian gas reserves, along with everything else there.
Question is, when do the Russians come to a full understanding that the West has no real intention of ever working with them? Such a realization will make it necessary to change basic strategies.
In other words, victories and losses in this environment are only tactical battles as a prelude to war. Russia needs to understand that the only dim hope it has of preventing nuclear war with the US is to undertake some dramatic economic move, such as shutting off the gas to Poland and the Baltic States, or perhaps all NATO member states. This would be sufficient to get the US stooges there removed from power.
Of course, the danger is that it could lead to war, too, if the stooges manage to stay in power. However, it is a larger risk to continue to play the gentleman’s game with the west, because this will allow them enough time to pass the Ukrainian Freedom Act through the US Congress, which will make Ukraine a “major US non-NATO ally”. This will effectively make Ukraine a NATO member state, bypassing internal NATO resistance to such a move. Once this gets into full gear, the neocons and fools running the US government will rapidly move the US towards direct military conflict with Russia.
While we are are all waiting with bated breath for Pepe Escobar or William Engdahl to write another one of their amazing analysis commentaries on this Most Incredible “Pivot of the Century 3.0!”, here are my 2 centavos!
Pivot 1.0 was bit.ly/1vDChHi Pivot 2.0 was the Russia-China’s Altai Pipeline!
President Putin just killed four birds with one pivot!
[1] He saved the South Stream Pipeline (finances, materials & engineering costs already spent)!
[2] He screwed the EU’s energy needs!
[3] He just added a new Russian LNG (liquified natural gas) Central Hub in the Mediterranean!
[4] He just saved Syria once again!
How President Putin saves Syria, I must admit, goes to an astute commentator on RT.com:
///Another brilliant business coup by Putin. The Pipeline in the Black Sea, with the scrapping of the “southstream” pipeline thru Bulgaria, would have been sitting idle. Now, they can simply re-direct the pipeline to Turkey. This way, Pipeline is not wasted Money, and it can be completed. Turkey also a bigger customer than Bulgaria, Hungary, Austria combined. Also, this, in the long-term for Turkey, give it a dependable source for Oil [actually Russia gas], and now Turkey support for Saudi Interests in Syria may change as a result. I wonder how the Saudis are taking this. Their gambit in Syria was to give the Saudis a direct pipeline thru Syria to Turkey. Which is why the Saudis support the so-called “free” Syrian Rebels vs. Assad in the first place. For the Saudis, it isn’t about removing Assad for Political reason, it is about Oil. They desire to supply Turkey, and take the business away from Iraq and Iran. For the Russians, can they trust a guy like Erdogan?///
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
I think you’re a bit misinformed as are some of the people commenting in relation to Serbia. First, Serbia did not, I repeat, did not blackmail Russia not it is in a position to do so. Serbia continuously supported South Stream unreservedly. In fact, Serbia resisted EU pressure to impose the sanctions against Russia using the dependence on Russian gas and trade in general and that such sanctions would bankrupt Serbian economy. Another issue is Serbian sensationalist media that was claiming Serbia was raising the issue of the price Russia paid a number of years ago for its national oil and gas company at the time. It turned out that Serbia simply does not have the money it owes Russia for supply of gas and those journalists made up the story about attempts to renegotiate the price paid. This is not a blackmail. Ukraine owes 200 times more, yet Russia is still supplying Ukraine with gas. So Serbia is the biggest loser in all of this, as it has no way of getting enough gas now, yet it has put everything on the line to support South Stream and Russia.
This is something that I touched upon last month.
http://lepontduhadu.blogspot.fr/2014/11/blog-light-at-end-of-pipeline-eng.html
Really it is all down to an ever increasing blinkered attitude imposed by the EU Elite. There is an french expression, autres chats a fouetter, in other words, Russia has other fish to fry in this world of ours. The EU already quibbled over Nord Stream’s capacity, tossed out the Nabucco project and now eagerly running into the arms of the US & Qatar. Russia is seeing the EU for what its worth, an Washington play pen and consequently it cannot be garanteed a reliable market.
Prices for EU produced items will shoot up, the EU market will shoot itself in the foot. Some commentators are quick to say that the US will gain an advantage by pulling in the EU with the TATFA. This is bad newes, if the NAFTA has set the standard. There are already moves to not only freeze EU wages but to lower. A case in point both Greece & Spain.
As far Turkey is concerned, it needs to be watched like a hawk. It’s support for ISIS has not dminished & Ergodan is already receiving adverse publicity from the pro Washington media. It could go in any direction.
Very good move from Russia with implications at many levels. The end user customers will pay the transit fee through Turkey instead of through Bulgaria and the pipeline will be much more secure on land (except from terrorism) and easy to repair if it breaks. The underwater pipeline in a thousand feet of water in the Black Sea seemed like a risky way to bypass Ukraine. This is much more secure. If they want to revive the South Stream in the future, they can pipe it overland through Crimea and then a short distance underwater to Bulgaria or Rumania.
Don’t forget that Turkey has been rebuffed by the EU for decades and that process has not stopped. Turkey wants, like Russia, to find a place in the world. I suggest that Russia and Turkey have reached an agreement about that place. Erdogan and Putin will have had much in common in terms of their worldview and this commonality will underpin the more difficult parts of any coming integration.
it’s a little bit harsh about serbia…yes, the current government are bunch of idiots but serbia can’t do anything if bulgaria says no against south stream…serbia can’t jump over because bulgaria is coming first on its route…
@alien Tech.
About salt you say none in India.
himalayan salt count?
In answer to a Bulgarian born @ 03:40
Things are exactly the same in Serbia as you put them in your words. It shames me also. But it makes me glad that there are more,as Saker put it submarines in the desert,out there. Be more mindful of the media you watch.
War on truth is strong in these ones.
@ anon 04:46
Yes they are. They hijacked our country and paralyzed the people thru,what it comes down to,fear. There are people resisting,they are not many. It is our time now to live in troubled times. We are yet again under attack. Read the Bulgarian born from above. It’s the same,word for word.
As we can now see,the EU is totally controlled by the US policy makers.
before the EU or the Eurozone,the origonal grouping was called the EEC(European Economic Community)also
called the Common Market.
The majority of people in Britain did not want to join,the government
refused to have a referendum,after all business interest really ruled.
Mission creep morphed this organization into a monster,an economic union became a military union,expanding NATO,all buying weapons from UK/US,France etc.
With the degree of control that the US has over the EU,it seems obvious to me that the EURO was a US creation,to allow total control of the currency of all member states.
They can and do,wage war financially,if a country steps out of line the forex can be used to damage the offender.
While America has the privilige of printing the worlds currency supply
they have free money.
With free money they can subsidize any failing gas or oil extraction company,that they wish to survive.
With free money the US can make any
politician,in any country,a billionaire.
If that country has opted out of NATO,buy the entire goverment!,sorry for Bulgaria but the politicians hope to retire in comfort.
The free money system created this Hegemony and the leaders are all trying to do bilateral currency swaps,bypassing the dollar.
Constant war by proxies,is the only thing keeping the west going,what was the first thing Obama said in the Baltic visits?
“you guys need to upgrade your defence capabilities to protect yourselves from that agressive Vlad!”.
Yeah sure!…
NSA/GCHQ spying plus free money buying power = compliant politicians,so now we know!.
The 40+ nations that agreed to the ‘Bretton Woods’ system in 1944 sold the entire world to America,now Russia and China and ‘partners’ are taking the world back!.
The clueless “EUpeans” (to coin a word) lost big time! There are fools, then there are dolts, then morons, dunderheads, then at a higher level there are idiots – but the pinnacle of idiocy is represented by the EU folks.
The south stream decision is causing shock waves in Europe. For a start a closer relation between Russia and Turkey breeds sheer terror in Greece and Cyprus. They will absolutely have to react by themselves coming closer to Russia as a means of self preservation and that means NATO cracking up, it means a huge reduction of American influence in the East Med.
watch out for Cyprus President visit to Russia in January, watch out for possible General Elections in Greece in February that could absolutely turn the whole political situation in Europe.
Angela Merkel’s political control over Europe is disapearing fast.
srad
“Europe just slit their own throats. Maybe thats what the US wanted…” — i.e., Nuland’s “fcuk the EU” cookie comment I assume…
Some thoughts on the Russia-Turkey deal and beyond:
1. Some are raising doubts over Turkey’s reliability. Well, by any stretch, I think we can all agree that Turkey is far stronger, more independent and mindful of her own interests than any EU member. Yes, that includes England, France and Germany. I don’t think anyone needs to argue over that.
2. What is most crucial here, is not so much that Bulgaria and other EU-minions are left out in the cold, but the simple geographical fact that any conceivable alternative that the EU may have to Russian gas has to go through Turkey. With Turkey now jumping on the Russian ship, the anti-Russian machinations in the West are thrown into disarray at best.
3. The third crucial aspect here is that Turkey has been a NATO cornerstone since its inception. Moving so close to Russia makes that anti-Russian bunch look even more ludicrous than before.
Beyond the Russia-Turkey gas deal, which also includes nuclear power stations, trade and tourism, we also had an agreement of direct currency exchange (Brazil and Uruguay also made a similar deal yesterday) The anti-dollar foundations grow stronger by the day.
The other crucial developments in the last period for me are:
1. The recent collapse in the price of oil. As always with “markets”, this is part fundamentals and part speculation. While this fall in the price of oil will hurt Russia in the short-term real bad through massive revenue losses, the same fate awaits just about everyone who sells oil, a long list that also includes the western supermajors like Exxon, Chevron, BP, Shell, Total and ENI. Even more crucial, is the extreme exposure of US shale to low oil prices. While we get to hear a lot in the mainstream press about break-even points around $80 or $70 or whatever, the truth is probably far worse than that. The fact is that shale producers had been burning cash even with oil at $100/bbl plus. But it’s not only shale that is in danger. Even more exposed are Canadian tar sans production which is probably even more expensive than shale oil.
2. The collapse in the value of the ruble. This is probably the best that the Anglo-Zionists can do against Russia. While the fall in the value of the ruble is presented as a catastrophe for Russia in the MSM, things are far more nuanced. Let’s start with the negatives of the ruble collapse:
a) Increase in inflation for Russian consumers and producers for western goods.
b) Making it far more expensive to service foreign debt to western institutions (double-edged sword though)
Positives:
a) Boost in domestic Russian production. A process that is already underway, but will require further investment to be sustained, not an easy task under current conditions.
b) Far less demand for EU and US goods. The AZs lose even more market share in Russia.
c) Increase in the ruble value of all Russian commodity exports. The fall in the price of oil, is remedied by the rise in the value of the dollar.
d) Further proof (if any were needed) that Russia must build firewalls to protect herself from western pressure.
Dear The Saker,
Russia has basically let the EU reap what it has sown. Nuland’s analogy comes to mind ;).
Oh well – no skin off the Russians nose and the USA has got exactly what it wants a subservient and destroyed EU……
Looks like the crazies are trying to go after Azerbaijan now….it never ends…..waiting to see what they will do to Turkey…..
Rgds,
Veritas
To me this is a game changer — if it all goes through. And it’s pretty positive for Russia.
On the other hand, the ruble continues to crash and I was just reading that the Russian government now anticipates its economy will contract by 0.8% in 2015.
It’s hard to get the truth out there. Of course the mainstream media is all lies, but I feel like pro-Russia bloggers try to spin everything positively, even when Russia is obviously in trouble.
I listened to Orlov’s interview. While he may be right on several points, for him to claim that Russia is not at all impacted by sanctions is absolutely ridiculous. It also puts into question his credibility, honesty and integrity.
putin relies on turkey which has backstabbed all her allies several times in last 5 years and who is main sponsor,besides anglos controleld saudi, of terorism and isis in fight against russian ally syria?
Putin has a higher chance to rely on Bulgaria than on treacherous turks.
yes usa lsoes on shall frackign but that woudl eb blessing in disguse especially from usa and anglo point of view russia can be weakened to such an extent as Russia has shown herself to be.
chess player putin has been fully defeated and no amount of cover will undo that.
putin must have acted soon or at least not intervened on minks agreement-he is a loser .
this from a rossophile and pro putin camp
the very fact that Russia made a deal with turkey means that Russia lost badly. and finds herself so pressed that she is catching at any straw.
instead of eliminating traitors like medvedev and lavrov and others inside kremlin putin is wasting time on external enemies to be bribed by any means-that does not work.
Serbia did not deserve this!
We are the only European country which refused to vote against Russia regarding two resolutions in UN this year.
The problem in Serbia is the media. Russia does not have enough money to make RT channel in Serbian language. They are only starting the radio channel next year.
All of Serbian media is in Western hands. Yesterday, they wee blocking thousands of comments on South Stream in which people were condemning the EU, Americans and Bulgarians for what happened, They have a professional army of Russia-haters (who represent something like 3-5% of population)who were bombarding the forums with comments which blamed Putin for what happened.
And today – the Serbian media are pretending like if nothing happened !!! We just lost billions of euros, 300 000 people will not get jobs on South Stream, basically we lost our future, and they are writing about problems with football supporters and similar nonsense.
But the people KNOW! And they did not deserve this. When the South Stream was “opened” last year, the journalists asked the peasants on whose farm the pipeline was supposed to be build if they are going to ask the state for some kind of compensation. And the peasants answered: “We do not want any money, we just want Russians to be here !! “
So this is a tragedy for Serbia.
The Wend.
I want to touch upon some comments already posted on here:
1. The Greece/Cyprus issue in relation to Turkey and Russia.
While both Greece and Cyprus have benefited heavily throughout the centuries from Russian pressure against Turkey, they have never managed to return any kind of favor (I am Greek-Cypriot myself) Greece has been somewhat more independent lately, but Cyprus is now under the rule of a rabidly anti-Russian party called DISY (Democratic Rally) which is also under the full influence of the Anglo-Americans. While most of the Greek population tends to be pro-Russian and anti-American, a very loud and sizeable minority are obscenely Russo-phobic, especially in Cyprus where the right wing party simply cannot comprehend that Russia is not communist anymore.
2. Turkey unreliable? Well, they are not unreliable if their interests are served. They have demonstrated their ability to resist the west on several occasions in the past 10 years or so. Be it the Iraq war, sanctions against Russia and now this. The amount of hatred that Erdogan receives from the MSM is indicative of his value to Putin.
3. The sanctions against Russia and how much they are hurting. Anyone that says that they are having no effect is clearly deluded, but we also have to acknowledge that they present a window of opportunity for Russian reform towards an independence from western finance. In any case, the biggest problem currently faced by Russia is the falling price of oil and not the sanctions. As many intelligent commentators have noted, this can only be a temporary situation and will wipe put lots of Canadian and Us production.
4. The falling ruble.
The falling ruble is not an unmitigated disaster for Russia. Like I said above, it brings both positive and negative developments. Having said that, I am also in agreement with Sergey Glaziev who has been highly critical of the Russian central bank and its policies. I believe that Russia must soon impose currency controls of the Chinese type and abandon the “neoliberal” romanticism that has caused so much hardship for Russia in the 90s and even now.
5. On this “economic growth” frenzy that seems to dominate the media. A temporary fall in GDP (which has still not materialized) does not mean very much. If the underlying economy is sound, which in the Russian case it most definitely is, then you can expect to bounce back very quickly. We should worry about Russia’s economic growth in the next decade or so, not the next couple of quarters.
Hundreds of thousands of people in Switzerland eat cat and dog meat, particularly at Christmas,
http://www.newsweek.com/not-just-christmas-swiss-urged-stop-eating-cats-and-dogs-287378
http://www.gold-eagle.com/article/grandmaster-putins-golden-trap
http://sputniknews.com/analysis/20141128/1015267390.html
http://www.opednews.com/populum/pagem.php?f=Ukraine-War-Driven-by-Gas-by-Mike-Whitney-Assad_Imperialism_Markets_Oil-141201-666.html
http://novorossia.today/editor-s-choice/the-bear-hug-of-europe-and-its-consequen.html
http://vladimirsuchan.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/how-eu-sacrificed-ukraine-to-banderite.html
To the Wend
‘sigh’
so true but this is how the bulldozer revolution got pulled off.
Yet you could duplicate the scene in most european countries, such as France with the Mistral class.
We are all sleepwalking. many countries will loose out but that is the harsh reality of being in the EU, or wanting to join it. There will come a time when the negatives start to build up, like a pressure cooker.
What’s Russia next move going to be?
China – ticked
Turkey – ticked
Iran _ ongoing
??
Idon’t why there is such a fuss about the Turkish gas pipeline, it has been on the books for a while. All timing I suppose.
A bit OT, but relevant to the bigger picture IMHO:
“US limits Russia’s access to modern technologies — Russian scientist. The expert says there is a common plan to push Russia as far as possible from modern technologies, not only target specific projects.”
http://en.itar-tass.com/non-political/764465
While the article relates specifically to Russia’s participation in a particular international space project, World Space Observatory – Ultraviolet, you can see the handwriting on the wall. The US is trying to isolate Russia in general, has openly, publicly said the same repeatedly. Trying to turn it into another, very large Cuba, if it can. While I doubt they can succeed (the deal with Turkey an example of a failure, they are not likely to give up anytime soon, any more than with Cuba.
Saker, what do you make of the profile of Merkel published in the New Yorker? I came across a review of it that I found to be spot on, at http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/11/links-113014.html#comment-2363000
What are most populated Serbian forums? Can you provide some links? I want to read them.
I read b92 and Blic comment section, they are mostly anti-Russian. I don’t understand this. What Russia ever did bad to Serbia? Russia lost hundreds of thousands lives in XIX century to release Bulgarians and Serbs from Turkish rule. Russia sacrificed it’s Empire and it’s Tsar in WWI to save Serbia. Russia sacrificed dozens of millions of people in WWII to release whole Europe from Nazism. And now she gets this? Russia is “bad”, but EU – most of which are the same NATO criminals who bombed Serbia and illegally detached Kosovo – is all of a sudden “good”? Even Guardian’s (which is one of the anti-Russian Zionist propaganda bullhorns) comment section is less anti-Russian than these Serbian forums.
Konuzin was right: “Има ли овде Срба?”
Turkey is also a very good stop off I could imagine for flights to Crimea from southern europe, north africa, so maybe Aeroflot will open up this route seeing as this would bypass any eu sanctions , then Crimea northwards opens up to more of Rus-last couple days remember Kiev banning aeroflot routes over ukraine. Tourists, cargo etc…..also could Crimea be another end of the china “new silk road” too-presumably after new bridge is built? Cos maps currently show using landbridge to Crimea route.Noting that proposals take it south of Black Sea , via Turkey to cross the Bosphorous??? , it is a train route?, wonder how they are going to do that. New pipeline meets new silk road together in Turkey? Co-incidence? Then Rus gas etc could travel eastwards too back along the route? Also Rus has an oil pipeline from Moscow to Turkmenistan, where the new China silk road will pass by? Cuts off oil supplies from Saudia Arabia etc ???? Consolidates gas and oil supplies to whole of north Indian areas, Pakistan?
South Stream no more. Hello “Turk Stream.” Turkey will capitalise on Europe’s stupidity and control Russian gas transit
Red Pill Times
Excerpts:
Winners:…
Russia: … Russia can stop dealing with the losers that make up the EU.
Turkey: Disrespected and teased by the EU for decades, Turkey will now be a major energy transit hub to Europe, and beyond. Should South Europe need gas, then it has to deal with Turkey now. Suck on that Brussels!
Losers:
Ukraine: You are about to see Ukraine turn into a rump state. Once gas stops crossing through Ukraine pipes, the country will become a wasteland of nothingness. They fell hook, line and sinker for the American/EU fairytale. With Turk Stream a reality, Ukraine has lost its strategic energy significance, and the fairytale is in fact a horror freak show.
Bulgaria, Serbia, Austria, Italy: All these EU countries would have made big time revenue, and employed lots of people in need of jobs, by being links in the South Stream chain. Now they will have to pay the Turk Stream toll booth to secure their energy needs.
Greece: …After 8 years of austerity, Brussels really f**ked Greece big time by blowing apart South Stream.
Brussels: They sold out the prosperity and security of Southern Europe so they could appease their US masters…
Има ли овде Срба?,
yes that is exactly what I was talking about. Do you know how many of my comments yesterday were published on B92 page? None!
Try serbiancafe.com, political forum.
Btw, it is even worse with Šešelj coverage since he returned from the Hague. They pretend like he is not here. I have to watch his interviews on internet only, and he is giving like two television interviews a day, and he is absolutelly brilliant.
This is like a nightmare. We thought in the 90s that it cannot be worse then Milosević media control. Objectively, in his time there was 10 times more freedom of speech and media then today.
The Wend.
but the Völkischer Beobachter believes that the end of South Stream project is a defeat of Russian aggression and a huge victory for European diplomacy
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/02/world/europe/russian-gas-pipeline-turkey-south-stream.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&bicmp=AD&bicmlukp=WT.mc_id&bicmst=1409232722000&bicmet=141977352200&_r=0
Question for anyone who cares to try to answer: How difficult is it to repair undersea pipeline that’s been ‘accidentally’ damaged, perhaps in numerous sections?
Re: “. . . USA, they are busy sabotaging their own shale gas industry and undermining Saudi Arabia by keeping the oil prices down.”
Not sure if it is USA undermining Saudi Arabia or vice versa. The current low oil prices will be putting frackers out of business and forcing consolidation of the industry. We Americans may have to import more oil again if enough of them go out of business.
Of course you are right, Saker. Obama, Merkel, Hollande and Cameron are acting like the four stooges, blundering into one another with seemingly no workable plan.
I don’t know how they did it, but the west has cratered the oil price to make Russia suffer – and suffering it is. I think they know Russia cant say much, as it uses its gas as a weapon against its neighbours, so it is learning oil can be used as a weapon against it.
Saker writes:
“As for the bad old USA, they are busy sabotaging their own shale gas industry and undermining Saudi Arabia by keeping the oil prices down.”
Opec (i.e. Saudi) is the one pushing down oil prices. Saudis themselves said they are happy with oil at $70/barrel. Opec just decided not to cut output.
How exactly do you come up with this being the doing of USA? Oh, I see – a secret deal, right?
You cannot just reduce everything to a simple duality “angloZionist vs. world”. This is american style thinking – see how far that gets you.
The way I see it, not only did Russia not lose anything, Russia achieved two crucial things: she now firmly put Turkey into her corner (not a trivial achievement if you look at the issues of the future of Iran and Syria) and she created a situation in which EU sanctions only hurt the EU. How one can present that as a defeat for Russia is beyond me.
Turkey isn’t in Russia’s corner. Turkey is mainly doing business. It is still killing Syria as we speak. I see it as a two faced country that pretends to stand-up for it’s own interest against the USA but in reality 100% pro-Zionist entity. Not to be trusted at all.
One can say, it’s a defeat for EU and a win for Russia in the short run but, for the long run, it is hard to tell. Most of the countries that are truly affected by it, are weak and generally the public are inclined towards Russia rather then EU. But overtime this can change. Politicians can blame their troubles now all on Russia and they will.
This will have great potential losses for the weak economic countries involved. Weak economies = weak countries = more pliable leaders/people.
Death of the South Stream is without a doubt a 100% win for USA.
So you still think Russia is losing this one?
Prolonged suffering will play in their hands.
Dave – “Who won? Who lost? Everyone involved has lost so far. We will know in March who won.”
Snap! It’s hard to tell how this will play out. But the 100% winner so far in this is USA.
This is a good move, but causes very sensitive losses to my country (Hungary) at the same time.
@Sam(AntiNWO)
This deal is not a 100% win for the USA. Far from it. The US has just been slapped very hard in the face by a major ally Turkey. Turkey, a NATO member, is not just doing business. This is deliberate, in your face for the whole world to see, bucking the US sanctions/isolation drive against Russia. Its a major humiliation for the US. The US just has not noticed yet that its parading around with no clothes on. Eventually this will sink in.
Meanwhile Russia will still get to sell its gas to Europe. Notice that a hub to supply Europe will be set up on the Turkey Greece border. Except now the Euros will get to fight over who gets the transit and the gas.
And Turkey may well jump into Russia’s corner because it has always dreamt of being the energy transit hub between Europe and the east. This deal has just brought that dream into the realm of the probable. But with Russia as a partner not the US/NABUCCO white elephant project.
Like Russia’s smart agri sanctions, this deal creates more fault lines within the EU. At the same time Russia also stuck a knife in the US. They announce that they will get into LNG. What do you suppose this does to investors hoping to wrest the EU gas market from Russia and supply it with LNG from the US or Qatar? Tough!
Anonymous T1 said…
Question for anyone who cares to try to answer: How difficult is it to repair undersea pipeline that’s been ‘accidentally’ damaged, perhaps in numerous sections?
Many years ago there was a cyclone at Townsville in the far north of Australia. Water supply suddenly stopped to Magnetic Island, a small island a few miles away — the cyclone had caused enough turbulence in the water to break the pipeline.
This was VERY shallow water, shallow enough for police scuba divers to follow the pipeline to find the break. The weights were removed from a longish section, so the section could be raised and a large new piece added. It was then lowered again and a join made underwater to the other end. It took several weeks for it to be fixed. (All this from memory, I was there at the time).
Black Sea is very deep, up to 2000 metres in some places. The pipe would have to be joined on the surface and lowered. Any undersea work on it would probably have to be with remote controlled mini-submarines. It would also have to be stronger, to withstand the external pressure.
LOTS LOTS safer to have the pipe run on solid ground, even with the higher risk of “accidental” damage.
================
A simple story about Bulgaria, from a Donetsk journalist, possibly written as a warning for local consumption
http://novorossia.today/editor-s-choice/the-bear-hug-of-europe-and-its-consequen.html
I think the people there are in such a stupor from malnutrition, they can’t see a way to stop their thieving government. It would take some friendly funding to get any opposition strong enough to win an election.
==============
On another forum I casually mentioned a hope Serbia can escape becoming a full member of EU, only to have a commenter tell me how well off they are and how austerity doesn’t exist or doesn’t hurt. Didn’t sound like a paid shill in other respects. So a lot of public education needs to be funded there, too.
Forget the brother-slav line in both places. Go straight for the being starved to death angle.
This deal disturbs
me greatly, and it should disturb
all Europeans, Turkey is a very
belligerence state, they can’t even
get along with fellow Muslims,
imagine how they feel about
Europeans. I understand what
Russia is doing and I don’t blame them, to a certain extent Russia
is playing into the Neo Conservative criminal hand, who are always allied with Turkey and Isarael as tag team partners. I would be very interested to see Sibel Edmonds take on all of this now, she knows their game very well and has written about it for a decade almost. “european” politicians just screwed Europe. Europeans constantly allowing themselves to be used by the NeoCons and now picking a fight with Russia for no good reason, it is all Israel, the NeoCons are Israel, if you do not know that you do not know what is happening. How can Turkey be a reliable partner considering everything that is happening now with Syria, this is madness. It will be worse than Ukraine in the future. I am a bit of a student of all this criminality, been following the NeoCon scum for years, Sibel Edmonds is a key person here,
greater than Pepe or the other
great authors mentioned here,
she was the leader, they themselves will tell you this, the Turkey/Israel/UK/US/NeoCon gang
is her expertise. ATC = AIPAC.
All high level NeoCons despite problems with Israel, Turkey and Israel are allied, support and lobby for Turkey. Europe is next,
after Ukraine, Russia, Syria. The chaos is coming to your street.
” I read b92 and Blic comment section, they are mostly anti-Russian. “
Don’t despair.
What you posted only makes sense
if you maybe take into account
b92 moderation and trolls maybe,
everywhere comments sections are
manipulated and in many cases
shut down totally because people
are far more aware of what is happening now than ever before, even in near past, first it was the madness in Syria and then Ukraine,
the average person is picking up on this, not just the well informed
from online.
I made the previous long comment on the NeoCons, this is going to burn Europe and they will feel it. I strongly believe Russia planned this as a contingency, if we can predict problems for countries no reason why the stakeholders can’t plan for them considering the enemy of Europe is transparent and easy to predict. This will wake up all
Europeans, and the traitors are probably worried about reaction now.
On that other planet, NYTimes calls the Turkey gas deal a “diplomatic defeat” for Putin and “a rare victory for the European Union and the Obama administration”.
It is a hilarious read. Fantastic how far something can be spun. Somehow the South Stream was a result of Europe resisting Putin’s aggression over Ukraine.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/02/world/europe/russian-gas-pipeline-turkey-south-stream.html
Bulgaria and Serbia so far have insisted Russia should talk before acting, but talk with EU. So they’ve not woken up to the bit that THEY can tell EU to go jump about this.
http://rt.com/business/210655-south-stream-bulgaria-president/
Which reminds me, because it mentions it. NUCLEAR. Russia is going around building nuclear power stations, when US would really much prefer nobody had them in case they wok out how to turn them into bombs. Countries joining the EU find that suddenly their Soviet nuclear stations are “not up to standard” and have to be replaced with much more expensive western-owned forms of electricity generation. (In Ukraine they’re making sure it’s substandard by talking them into buying fuel from Westinghouse, which doesn’t work correctly in the Russian-designed plants)
Turkey is the winner. She keeps doing whatever she wants, supports Ukraine and strikes deals with Russia, is an industrial free zone for European industries but does not respect European standards, support ISIS against Assad but keeps her special relationship with Iran, supports hard-line Islamism but the Pope bows down in the Blue Mosque. Now she gets gas and royalties in exchange for tantamount to nothing.
Russia is half winner half looser. She shows Europe that she can check her stupid “pressure” but puts herself in Turkish hands. Where is Russian gas supposed to go from Turkey? To Arab States who can’t afford or simply don’t need it? To Europe again? And what happens with next Erdogan’s waltz turn? The suicidal European attitude deprives Russia of her natural partner and forces her to put her resources into the hands of unreliable partners like Turkey or hungry and selfish giants like China.
Europe is the loser. They loose gas, energetic security, and a good deal of money for the States involved. Now they loose also their freedom and finally their face.
[from Blue]
When your enemy is shooting himself in the foot, do not interfere.
>>>>>>Serbia did not deserve this!
>>>>>>We are the only European country which refused to vote against Russia regarding two resolutions in UN this year.
I completely agree, брате. :-(
But the geography does not help at all. Without a land (or even sea) bridge, Russia cannot work with its loyal sibling Serbia if countries like Bulgaria and Romania (and Ukraine!) prefer life as EU poodles.
On the other hand, I cannot see that Russia’s turn to genocidal terrorist-sponsor Turkey as being anything other than a failure in the long term. It’s hard to see that Russia won anything substantive here.
OH NOOOO
Just heard on radio, Poroshenko is coming here to Australia next week.
If he comes to Sydney I’ll go out and protest, so help me, though I’d need to get a wheelchair to do it.
I hope he meets a redback spider.
Nah, that idiot Abbott is going to fawn over him and join him in 3 choruses of RUSSIA EVIL.
ggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Anonymous said…
“I don’t understand why Bulgarian and Serbian politicians blackmailed Russia over South Stream.”
Very simple: both countries are occupied by Nato. EU too. Among prisoners there is a hierarchy. Western EU capos have considerable power over much lower Häftlinge (german for the detainees of the concentration camps)of the Eastern EU. It is a terribly sad view but I can’t escape it. Take a good look at behavior of EU in Bosnia and Herzegovina and Kosovo. Sapientis satis.
Regards, Spiral
Seward said…@ 02 December, 2014 16:03
” they are not likely to give up anytime soon, any more than with Cuba. “
Why would anyone want them to give up soon?