By Unorthodox Black Sheep VN for The Saker Blog
Analysis On Vietnam Relationship with The Super Power Countries (With My Own Theory)
(Title Image is Created By Me)
[1. Public Apologize To Saker Readers: Before beginning the article, I want to admit that I am truly wrong on the part “China and US mess up Soviet Support to Vietnam during 1960s” when I response to comment Richard Spratly in my reports “Let Be Honest About Paracel Islands And Spratly Islands” and I horribly apologized for confused you guys on the 1960s part. This is a part I heard from my history teacher about 9 to 10 years ago. I just noticed when I have a conversation with my acquaintances, and they point the 1960s part is wrong. However, I also learn more from my mistake that they tell me that the teacher who tell me about the 1960s part is possible confused the Vung Ro Incident with Ping-Pong Diplomacy. According to Vietnamese Intelligence information from 1973, they tell me that the Ping-Pong Diplomacy did not only ties the relationship between US and China but also it was a secret deals. First, China will stop the Soviet support to Vietnam in the land and US will stop Soviet support in the sea. Second and finally, China would claim a large area of Pacific from China to Midway island (about half of Pacific if I calculate correct). Now, let begin with my report.]
2. I am truly grateful on Mr. Saker for putting my reports on the blog, and you guys the readers for reading my reports despite the fact that my grammar skills is horrible. I am really grateful on the Greanville Post for their attention on my late report “The Hidden Power of Pro-US Facion In Vietnam” and their effort on editing and fixing my super horrible grammar. Please if my grammar is highly hard to understand, just ask me at the comment section and I will do my best to help you guys understand what I try to says.
3. You guys can freely posted my reports whenever you want. If you guys find my reports have so much grammar errors, so I discourage you guys to use my reports because I know no one want waste their precious time to figure out what I say, edit and fix my grammar (LOL).
4. If you guys don’t mind, I decide to quote the information from any source I found because I find out my bad grammar skills can give some people headache if I write with my own words.]
Vietnam-China Relationship:
We already know that Vietnam and China is hostile to each other right now on the South China Sea. However, two countries still try their best to maintain peace in the land especially the border between two countries. According to “Vietnam, as next ASEAN chair, urges China to behave in S. China Sea”, Vietnamese Deputy Foreign Minister Nguyen Quoc Dung said:
“”You have seen what China has done a couple of months before in Vietnam’s EEZ. Of course, it’s a blatant violation of our sovereignty. But Vietnam…did exercise self-restraint and finally China withdrew from the EEZ, but I am not sure if such kind of thing will not happen again,” Dung said.
“What China did was very alarming and also a kind of threatening. Not only Vietnam but also other countries see the potential of being threatened in the future,” he said.
Dung said China has almost completed its reclamations of artificial islands and has militarized those features.”
From this information, we can noticed how dangerous China is in the South China Sea by their actions in the EEZ. Moreover, there are some proof to prove that Vietnam and China are clashing at each other right now in the South China Sea. According to “As coastguard boats circle, Vietnam prepares for bigger challenge in South China Sea”:
“This week in Ho Chi Minh City, Nguyen Minh Hoang, a major general in the People’s Army of Vietnam and member of the National Assembly, gave details of the months-long stand-off during a community meeting.
In response to questions about Vanguard Reef, Hoang said the Rosneft rig was operating as usual although there were more than 40 Chinese and 50 Vietnamese ships in the area.
While finding a diplomatic solution to the stand-off was Vietnam’s top priority, Hoang did not rule out taking the Vanguard Reef case, and Vietnam’s other South China Sea disputes, to the United Nations or the international courts.
Vietnam has repeatedly clashed with China, which claims more than 80 per cent of the resource-rich waterway as its own.”
Look like some Vietnamese is pissed off right now they decide to “bring it on” with China. Some acquaintances tell me that Vietnam Coast Guards are currently ramming with China Coast Guard right now. MOFA Spokesperson Le Thi Thu Hang had responsed to Haiyang Dizhi 8 so directly to demand them withdraw from Vietnam water territory.
China is currently building the border wall or the border fence or the border barrier exactly between the two countries in case that the war can be triggered between two countries for some reason only god know. You guy can view the video about the border wall:
See Directly Vietnam-China Border Wall-LangSon Travel (CẬN CẢNH BỨC TƯỜNG BIÊN GIỚI VIỆT NAM TRUNG QUỐC – LANG SON TRAVEL)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYKuR_jcgzc
Border Walll Seperate Vietnam And China And Bac Xa Binh Lieu Border Road (Bức Tường Biến Giới Ngăn Cách Việt Nam Trung Quốc Và Đường Vành Đai Biên Giới Bắc Xa Bình Liêu)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozi8I4ddR4o
I know the fence also has the gate or door but I still think this is the sign of incoming war between Vietnam and China but I am not being paranoid about this. Vietnamese is paranoid so much about the war is coming thank for the border wall.
In conclusion, Vietnam and China hostile to each other on South China Sea.
Vietnam-US Relationship:
US-China trade war had many great impact to Vietnam economic, there are many countries, that includes China, had moved or considered to move their factories to Vietnam. This is Savills report:
The list of large groups relocating factories from China to Vietnam
US have began to move many factories from China to Vietnam. According to “U.S. Imports From Vietnam Soar As Chinese Factories Simply Move Countries”:
“Imports from China, however, declined 13.9 percent.
In 2018, Vietnam’s largest export to the United States was electrical machinery. The U.S. imported $11 billion worth, plus $7.2 billion of knit apparel and $6.2 billion of footwear, according to the Office of the United States Trade Representative.
Amid rising trade tensions between Beijing and Washington, the Trump administration has said that tariffs will force companies producing in China to relocate factories to nearby countries.
“My expectation is a lot of this business will be moved from China to other places in the region,” Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said while speaking before the House Financial Services Committee on Wednesday.
And that appears to be what’s happening. News reports have noted anecdotal evidence of the shift, with business owners and analysts saying they’ve seen the relocation of companies’ manufacturing facilities to Vietnam.
Zhejiang Hailide New Material, which makes industrial yarns, told investors last year it would set up a factory in Vietnam to avoid tariff hikes. Hl Corp, which makes bike parts, also said last year that it was moving production to Vietnam in hopes of evading tariffs. And GoerTek, a producer of Apple’s AirPods, also plans to move production to Vietnam.”
From this, we can find out that US and its lackeys are try to turn Vietnam into new factory. This is not good in long term if my understand on economic is right. According to “Vietnam gains ground in shift from China”, Vietnam also gains some profits when Google and Apple, and other ones move to their factories from China to Vietnam:
“The magnitude of the shift from China to Vietnam is hard to measure, in part because multinationals are keeping their moves discreet to avoid upsetting delicate government and supplier relationships in China.
But Vietnam’s trade numbers, not least its record $39.5bn surplus with the US last year, suggest a significant realignment is under way, as do anecdotes from companies, consultants and suppliers in Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh City.
Apple recently began trial production of its AirPods in Vietnam, according to Nikkei. Amazon and Home Depot are among the retailers that have stepped up sourcing in Vietnam recently, according to Vu Ngoc Khiem, country director for Global Sources, a consultancy that links global suppliers to buyers.
But trade experts said Vietnam is limited in how quickly it can lure manufacturing orders from China.
“Global supply chains are complicated,” said Adam Sitkoff, executive director of the American Chamber of Commerce in Hanoi. “There are a lot of players and a lot of workers involved, and you can’t just pick up and move from one day to the next because of tariffs.”
Bac Ninh, a densely settled region of factories, malls, chain restaurants, housing for migrant workers, and other ex-urban sprawl, is the country’s smallest province but has attracted $18.2bn of foreign investment in recent years from Samsung, Canon and Nokia, according to Mr Quat.”
Many Vietnamese, especially the unemployment about this, were happy about this because the factory can give them jobs to make money. According to “All the reasons ExxonMobil may leave Vietnam”, there are rumors that China are pressuring ExxonMobil and Vietnam Government stop working on Ca Voi Xanh project, also known as Blue Whale:
“First, ExxonMobil is an American oil major with the power of the US government behind it. The logic was that China may have pushed Spanish energy exploration and production company Repsol out of Vietnamese waters, twice in the last two years, but to do so to an American oil major would be unthinkable.
Second, the Blue Whale project is situated just outside of China’s notorious nine-dash line map. Though ExxonMobil and its partners would likely tap a certain amount of gas inside China’s self-proclaimed jurisdiction due to its proximity, its location nonetheless would purportedly offer the project another level of protection.
Third, it also seemed that China would not want to upset an American oil major that is integral to the global oil and gas sector, particularly since China is increasingly dependent on energy imports to drive its manufacturing-driven economy.”
The rumors had caused so much outrage in the Vietnam social medias. However, the rumor is true when Vietnam successfully invited Russia come to harvest.
According to “U.S. Security Cooperation With Vietnam”, Vietnam also receive fund on military from US:
“In March 2018, the U.S.S. Carl Vinson visited Da Nang, Vietnam for a historic four-day port call. Sailors participated in cultural and professional exchanges during community service events, sports competitions, ship tours, and a formal reception aboard the aircraft carrier. This visit was the first by a U.S. aircraft carrier in more than 40 years.
The Department has also authorized $22.5 million in Direct Commercial Sales (DCS) to Vietnam from CY2014 – CY2018, with nearly $11 million of that total coming in the last two years.
From FY2013 – FY2018, Vietnam received over $56 million in bilateral State Department-funded security assistance under the Foreign Military Financing (FMF) program. FMF funded the transfer and refurbishment of a former U.S. Coast Guard cutter to Vietnam under the Excess Defense Article program. This was the first major defense transfer between the United States and Vietnam, and is currently the largest vessel in Vietnam’s military inventory. FMF has also funded the acquisition of 24 45-ft Metal Shark fast patrol boats, the first 12 of which have been delivered as of April 2018.
From FY2015 – FY2018, Vietnam has also received $26.25 million in FMF funds under the Department’s Southeast Asia Maritime Security Initiative (SAMSI) regional FMF account which is designed to enhance maritime domain awareness, increase the presence of partner countries in their own territorial waters, and help them to maintain the rights and freedoms specified under the international law of the sea.
The Department of Defense also provided Vietnam with over $16 million in additional assistance in FY2017 and FY2018 to assist Vietnam in enhancing its maritime capacity.”
However, Vietnam still maintain its policy “Four Nos”, and they don’t let US set any military barracks in their country. Vietnam stills try to main their neutral position in the world.
According to “U.S. Seeks Stronger Defense Relationship With Vietnam”, Randall G. Schriver explained:
“Schriver said the U.S. and Vietnam share a common interest “in promoting a rules-based order, protection of sovereignty, individual rights of countries, no matter their size and our shared concern that there’s a potential erosion of a rules-based order, one that has allowed all nations in the Indo-Pacific to rise and prosper.
“We share a view that for the Indo-Pacific to continue to flourish, each nation in the region must be free to determine its own course within a system of values that ensures opportunities for even the smallest countries to thrive and be free from the predations of strong countries,” he continued. “In short, for Vietnam, what we want is a strong, prosperous, independent Vietnam, nothing else.”
The predation to which Schriver referred is by China.
“The region is increasingly confronted with a more assertive, confident China that is willing to accept friction in the pursuit of its interests,” he said, citing China’s militarization of islands in the South China Sea as an example.”
Let me correct here little bit, the reason US want to have military cooperate with the Vietnam because US does not have any experiences on fighting China like Vietnam. In my own conclusion, US just wait and watch with popcorn and soda two countries kill each other then they will finished the survive one.
From my observation, look like Vietnam-US relationship same to Vietnam-EU relationship or relationships with any first world countries is mostly on economic because Vietnam government does not have ability to create jobs for their people so the foreign factories is the only way can save Vietnamese from being unemployment. We already know that US, same to other first world countries, has very low blue-collar workers with the good skills. However, the thing will bring to Vietnam the long term or short term, bad or good result, I don’t know because there is no discussion on the topic, and majority of Vietnamese believes this is good for them because they need jobs but I am being skeptical about this.
Vietnam-Israel relationship:
You guys can review more the history of Vietnam-Israel relationship in the link:
http://www.mofa.gov.vn/en/cn_vakv/nr040830134623/nr040920144424/ns070925132521
In my own opinion, Vietnam-Israel relationship is pretty secret, and both countries seem don’t want anyone take notices on their relationship so much so they keep the topic “low profile” as much as they can. Majority of Vietnamese media (almost 100%, I think so) never report any single news about the genocidal war crimes of Israeli military to Palestine. According to “Israel Said 32 Countries Confirmed They’d Attend U.S. Embassy Gala. Here’s Who Really Came”, Vietnam also secret vote open U.S. Embassy in Jerusalem, also means accepting Jerusalem is capital city of Israel, and Vietnam make excuse that “they did not have plan to come yet”. This is the proof:
(Credit: According to “Vietnam: Israel’s closest ASEAN partner”:
“The most important development in Israeli-Vietnamese military cooperation was the 2012 visit by Israel’s Ministry of Defense general director Udi Shani and representatives from SIBAT Defense Export and Defense Cooperation to see potential prospects in Vietnam.
A plan was subsequently made by Israel Weapon Industries Ltd to open a light-arms plant with an investment of over $100 million. The plant helps to manufacture and to supply Israel’s AS advanced version of the Galil infantry rifle.
The most recent development took place early this year when the Vietnamese government purchased an air defense missile system to enhance its air defense capacity. What is also remarkable is that Israel’s Air Defense and Air Force Service conducted an English course for its units assigned to receive, manage, and exploit these new weapons and equipment in Hanoi in April this year.
Given Vietnam’s large military and obsolete weapons systems, Israel could be expected to play a considerable role in upgrading the country’s defense systems and its technologies. Thus it is not surprising that last year the two countries signed an MoU on defense cooperation and Israel has opened a defense attaché in Vietnam.”
The video from report above is got deleted. This is the dailymotion link:
Vietnamese girls in Israel Army
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=326_1427221398 (Deleted)
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1uizc (Still Work)
I truly don’t know how many Vietnamese immigrant from my country come to serve Israeli army because there is no document about this. I also heard that Israel also allows US citizen to join the Israel military.
During the 2018, there is the booming of news that describe how relationship Vietnam-Israel is so suddenly without reasons, and right now there are not so much news about this. You guys can google “vietnam-israel military cooperation” and you will see that most of news about Vietnam-Israel is around 2018. According to “What’s in the New Vietnam-Israel Defense Dialogue?”:
“During the meeting, both sides took stock of where defense ties were and also considered areas for further development, while also discussing a range of regional and international issues of interest. The range of topics covered during the dialogue included cybersecurity, defense industry, and personnel training and education, according to official Vietnamese accounts.
Commenting on the significance of the dialogue following his separate meeting with Adam, Vietnam’s Defense Minister Ngo Xuan Lich said the results of the meeting would help both strengthen trust and understanding between the two sides and also open up more opportunities for defense collaboration in new fields. He also underscored that Vietnam’s defense ministry would help facilitate the implementation of agreements already signed as well as propose initiatives and new aspects of cooperation as well.”
According to “Israel Aerospace Industries closes $160m drone deal with Vietnam”:
“The Heron UAVs being supplied to the Vietnamese will be able to operate up to a range of about 350 kilometers over periods of up to 50 hours and be able to carry payloads of up to a quarter of a ton – all according to the mission on which it has been sent.
The deal has finally been agreed after a protracted period of uncertainty and delays. According to one of the reports, the deal has been achieved after the personal intervention of Ministry of Defense director general General (res) Udi Adam.
IAI declined to comment on the reports.”
Look like both Vietnam and Israel don’t want anyone get attention on the deal. However, not all Israel weapon made is good like Vietnamese military officer expect. According to “Vietnam Has Buyer’s Remorse after Purchasing “Israeli” Anti-Air Missiles”:
“An unnamed Vietnamese military source told the well-regarded Russian international media outlet TASS that his country was considering abandoning its plans to purchase more of “Israel’s” SPYDER surface-to-air missiles after they reportedly malfunctioned in the country’s tropical environment, which comes just days after India voiced similar concerns about its newfound military-strategic partner’s anti-tank Spike missiles for the exact same reason. In the course of half a decade, “Israel” rose to become the world’s tenth-largest weapons exporter during the five-year period between 2012-2016 according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), which noted that 41% of the self-proclaimed “Jewish State’s” sales were to India.”
Look like Israel’s weapons work only in Israel not in Vietnam. However, according to my acquaintances, the problem had been solve right now, and Vietnam still purchase Israeli weapons as much as they can. Vietnamese today from high to low positions have very high opinion to Israel due to their help on Vietnamese military like how Soviet helped Vietnam in the past, according to my acquaintances, and thank to the “Jews is smart” propaganda.
During the December 2019, there is a news that Israel also help Vietnam on airline development. According to “Isralis Ambassador To Vietnam: I Was Impressed By Bamboo Airway’s Services”:
“The Vietnam – Israel direct route is being researched and promoted by some Vietnamese airlines.
“The Middle East market including Israel is one of the potential markets but it hasn’t been exploited because of several reasons. Currently, Bamboo Airways is seriously researching, exploring and deploying the first steps of preparation to actualize the idea of the first direct route connecting Vietnam – Israel”, Deputy General Director of Bamboo Airways Nguyen Ngoc Trong said.
The Deputy General said that the Airline is aggressively promoting the negotiation and cooperation with the Embassy of Israel in Vietnam, the Vietnamese Embassy in Israel, the Civil Aviation Administration of Vietnam, and airports in Israel, etc. to quickly exploit the operation of a direct route connecting Hanoi – Tel Aviv, a city in Israel having a lot of Vietnamese residents, with a wide-body Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner, as early as QII/2020.
In the initial stage, Bamboo Airways plans to exploit Hanoi – Tel Aviv direct flights with the frequency of 3 round trips/week, which will be gradually increased according to the number of passengers. After the flight route is put into operation, the flight time from Vietnam to Israel is expected to reduce by 40% – 80% – a reduction of to 9 hours.
Appreciating the efforts of Vietnamese airlines, Ambassador Nadav Eshcar affirmed that he would fairly and greatly support all carriers in operating the direct flight.
“In my opinion, Bamboo Airways is currently the most suitable Vietnamese airline for exploiting a direct route between Vietnam and Israel,” he said and explained that the biggest obstacle that all Vietnamese airlines currently facing is the complicated procedures which take a lot of time and money.
The Ambassador believed that Bamboo Airways is an airline with an impressive development. In particular, the Carrier has successfully exploited 30 domestic and international routes within 10 months of operation, while still ensuring the quality of service at every stage.
Especially, the model of a private airline allows Bamboo Airways to be autonomous in mobilizing resources, developing business plans, thereby significantly reducing procedural issues for new flight routes.
“I have flown with Bamboo Airways when I was on my business trips or traveling with my family, and I was impressed by its 5-star-oriented service. Bamboo Airways is currently one of my favorite airlines. I hope the Carrier will keep maintaining and promoting this strength in the future,” said the Ambassador.”
About the Bamboo Airway, some people tell me that Bamboo Airway is in fact was a Chinese Company that is working in Vietnam under the coverage of FLC Group, Vietnam Company. I don’t think they have any reasons to lied to me about this so I will said that the Ambassador Nadav Eshcar use the double talk, praise both Vietnam and China for some political reason.
Unfortunately, I cannot find more anymore information on Vietnam-Israel relationships (At least right now). Let me tell you one of the most insane thing I heard from some people who had ton of knowledge on Vietnam-Israel relationship: “Israel sells and helps Vietnam on military today like how Soviet Union sold and helped Vietnam on military in the past.” I look like WTF!!!!????? They will not be confident to say the thing like that if they understand their Talmudist ideology. Most of the Vietnamese I know for some reason, they praise Israeli so much like they praised Russian in the Cold War. They are confident enough to tell that the Jewish Elites considers Chinese Elites a threat that need to be eliminated soon as possible, and Vietnam is the best partner in the war against China.
Vietnam-Russia Relationship:
Thank gods, there are still many Vietnamese officials in the Vietnamese military who are sane enough to recognize how cheap and high quality Russia weapons are. Despite the fact Vietnamese medias have throw Russia under bus whenever they since the 2014 until now, especially the 2016 US election, Russia, for some reasons, still trust Vietnam in some contents. I have to thank “Anaam” for providing me two link on my latest report.
According to “Gazprom approved to develop 340MW gas-to-power plant in Quang Tri”:
“The prime minister assigned the MoIT, the MPI, and other relevant authorities to guide Gazprom EP International B.V to complete administration procedures for being granted the investment certificate.
Previously, Gazprom exploited gas reserves at two fields namely Bao Vang and Bao Den. As a result, the total gas reserves exploited by the company amounted to 57.88 billion cubic metres. The company decided to invest $1.32 billion to develop rigs and an oil pipeline system to transport oil to the mainland and generate 500 million cubic metres of gas per year. However, after consideration, the investor saw that the investment capital is too high, thus, it switched from gas to electricity sales.”
According to “Vietnam wants to step up cooperation with Gazprom: Party official”:
“Binh, who is also Secretary of the Party Central Committee, spoke highly of Gazprom’s strategic cooperative agreement and long-term investment in Vietnam.
Markelov said Gazprom wants to become a prestigious partner of Vietnamese oil and gas companies.
Bilateral partnerships will further develop as Gazprom and Vietnam Oil and Gas Group (PetroVietnam) are scheduled to soon sign a new strategic cooperative deal for the next 10 years, he said.”
Gazprom is not only company that come to work in Vietnam but also Rosneft too. Vietnam also let Russia Rosneft state company come to South China Sea to harvest oil and gas, and that made China angry but Russia ignore China.
According to “China warns Russian firm against drilling oil off Vietnam”:
“BEIJING: China today warned Russian oil firm Rosneft and Vietnam against conducting oil exploration in the disputed South China Sea, also claimed by Beijing, without Chinese government permission, saying any such move would affect bilateral ties, regional peace and stability.
“I noted the report,” Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Lu Kang said here while responding to a question about reports that Rosneft Vietnam BV – a unit of Russian state oil firm Rosneft – was drilling oil in an area of the South China Sea(SCS) also claimed by China.
The report said Rosneft Vietnam BV is drilling at LD-3P well about 370 kms from Vietnam which reportedly is located “within the area outlined by China’s nine-dash line” of the SCS.
Lu said, “I would like reiterate that any country, organisation, enterprise or individual should not conduct exploration or development activities in waters in China’s jurisdiction without the permission of the Chinese government”.”
According to “Exclusive: As Rosneft’s Vietnam unit drills in disputed area of South China Sea, Beijing issues warning”:
“In March, Vietnam halted an oil drilling project in the nearby “Red Emperor” block following pressure from China, sources told Reuters.
That block is licensed to Spanish energy firm Repsol, which has asked Vietnam to pay compensation over the issue.
The Vietnamese foreign ministry did not respond to a request from Reuters for comment.
Rosneft had no consultations with the Kremlin on drilling in the South China Sea, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said on Thursday.
“As far as we know, the company has already made a statement that it works exactly in line with the obtained licenses,” Peskov told a regular conference call with reporters.
Fearing repercussions and pressure from China, Rosneft Vietnam had wanted to begin drilling with as little attention as possible, despite the statement by its parent company on Tuesday, the sources said.
On Thursday, its parent company said its drilling in the block was within Vietnam’s territorial waters, and in accordance with Vietnamese legislation.”
For some reason, Russia still keep helping Vietnam on harvesting oil and gas and Russia even ignore China complain. We don’t know how long Russia can help Vietnam when China keep rambling about this. According to “Vietnam’s Strange Ally in Its Fight With China”:
“While no one expects Russia to deploy an armada from Vladivostok to challenge the People’s Liberation Army Navy, China has plenty to lose if it plays its hand too strongly against Rosneft. China’s Belt and Road Initiative, with its lofty plans to connect Eurasia, must carefully thread routes through what Russia considers to be its backyard. Some $7 billion of Chinese wealth has already been strategically placed in Ukraine, which remains locked in an undeclared war against Russian forces in its east. Georgia, whose ties with Russia have long been poisoned, has also flirted with the Belt and Road. China is also spreading its largesse among Russia’s friends in the Eurasian Economic Union, and an ambitious project to link Kazakhstan with Belarus is already underway.
Keeping the peace between two powers requires substantial give and take and inevitable conflicts that must be addressed quietly as spheres of influence are established and reinforced. As a result, joint Russian-Vietnamese oil drilling off the southern Vietnamese coast is almost definitely on the negotiating table.”
From the information above, we can understand that Russia oil and gas companies are helping Vietnam so quietly, like Vietnam-Israel relationship, they don’t want to be get attention so much. Russia keep rejecting China pressure. Moreover, “Vietnam-Russia Bilateral Ties Deepen, Boost Investment” also describe more on how Vietnam-Russia relationship work:
“Russia’s main exports to Vietnam include grain crops, food products, mineral raw materials, and metals. Russia is also the largest supplier of military arms and equipment to Vietnam – equipping the country with modern high-tech weapons for security and defense.
Vietnam’s main export to Russia includes electrical engineering products, mobile phones, textiles, food and beverage, and coffee. Of the most important pillars of Russia-Vietnam economic ties is the energy (oil and gas) sector. The agriculture and food, and tourism industries are also becoming increasingly important in the bilateral trade and economic relationship of the two countries.
Vietnam has 22 investment projects in Russia which are worth nearly US$3 billion. One of the biggest and most notable Vietnamese investment include TH Groups’ US$2.7 billion in dairy farms in the Primorye region.”
According to “Deputy Defense Minister Visit Spotlights Russia-Vietnam Military Ties”:
“That has been evident over the past year or so as well, whether it be developments on orders of Russian equipment or visits and exchanges. Indeed, the official count by the Vietnamese defense ministry is that both sides have so far been carrying out more than 70 defense activities, including 12 as part of Vietnam Year in Russia and Russia Year in Vietnam.
Last week, the defense relationship has been in the headlines again with the visit of a high-ranking Vietnamese delegation to Russia. The delegation, led by Phan Van Giang, who serves as deputy defense minister and the chief of the general staff of the Vietnam People’s Army, was on an official visit to Russia that lasted from August 13 to August 19.
The visit consisted of a series of interactions. In terms of meetings, the delegation met with a range of top Russian officials including V. Gerasimov, the chief of the Russian general staff. Per the official account by Vietnam’s defense ministry, during the meeting between Giang and Gerasimov, the two sides reviewed the state of their bilateral ties to date, including aspects such as education, training, exchanges, and military technical cooperation.”
Vietnam also try to buy Russia submarine as much as they can to build and modern their navy with the tactics hit and run. According to “Vietnam tests hi-tech submarines as navy expansion gives China food for thought”:
“Vietnam will soon have a credible naval deterrent to China in the South China Sea in the form of Kilo-class submarines from Russia, which experts say could make Beijing think twice before pushing its much smaller neighbour around in disputed waters.
A master of guerrilla warfare, Vietnam has taken possession of two of the submarines and will get a third in November under a US$2.6 billion deal agreed with Moscow in 2009. A final three are scheduled to be delivered within two years.
While communist parties rule both Vietnam and China and annual trade has risen to US$50 billion, Hanoi has long been wary of China, especially over Beijing’s claims to most of the potentially energy-rich South China Sea. Beijing’s placement of an oil rig in waters claimed by Vietnam earlier this year infuriated Hanoi but the coastguard vessels it dispatched to the platform were always chased off by larger Chinese boats.
The Vietnamese are likely to run so-called area denial operations off its coast and around its military bases in the Spratly island chain of the South China Sea once the submarines are fully operational, experts said.
That would complicate Chinese calculations over any military move against Vietnamese holdings in the Spratlys or in the event of an armed clash over disputed oil fields, even though China has a much larger navy, including a fleet of 70 submarines, they added.”
According to some people I know, Vietnam is currently have the powerful submarine army that good enough to scare China navy away from Vietnam sea territory. From this, we can understand that Russia is the only country that Vietnam can ask for helping in building navy military to against China Imperialism, and the only country that don’t fear China. In conclusion, Vietnam and Russia still have good relationship to each other especially in military (look like more on Navy) and economic (look like more on oil and gas).
This is my own craziest theory: US, and Israel want Vietnam become A WATCHDOG on China and Russia helps Vietnam in order to give a hidden warning to China. From my own knowledge, I will explain with each country:
US wants to turn Vietnam into their new factory that can make US products to them. Vietnamese today trust US so blindly, and they always think that US will protect Vietnam from China. I am not surprised that Vietnamese want their own country become a vassal state of US due to the myth “US’s vassal state always rich and have happy life than anti-imperialist countries.” US need to weak China first so they can destroy China because China will be weakness in both economic and military after the war with Vietnam even if they win Vietnam. US also does not want to lose their new cheap labors, and a new place that willing import trashed every year for money, of course.
I think Russia help Vietnam because they want to give a warning sign to China: WE ARE WATCHING YOU AND DON’T TRUST YOU ENTIRELY, CHINA. China is just best ally to China because they have strong border to each other not friendship. I theorize that Putin will never forget China betrayal on Soviet Union when China Invaded Soviet Union in 1969 (they accused Soviet invaded China but I believe that China invaded Soviet), China funded Mujahideen during 1980s. I mean how can Russian military officers can forget China crime against Russia. I believe Russian will not forget China betrayal and they must being skeptical on China. China may possible so some potential in South China Sea so they entrust Vietnam more than China. Helping Vietnam is also message to China from Russia that China should know how to behave and Russia is not fool.
Israel secretly considers Vietnam a useful animal that need to be feed and train to die for their master due to their Talmudist Ideology. Jewish Elites is considering Chinese Elite a thorn in their eyes. China and Israel are playing double faces to each other right now so they need a slave or animal that has experiences to fight China: Vietnam. This is reason why Israel secret help Vietnam like Soviet helped Vietnam, seduced Vietnam in emotional way so Vietnamese will become good Goys that will die for their new Jewish Master.
I also (try to) believe that Vietnam right now try to maintain their neutral position as much as they can like what they have done before 2013. With the neutral position, Vietnam don’t give US, Russia, and Israel other reasons to hate, but cannot tell the country trust Vietnam entirely, of course. Vietnam can use the relationship with three countries above to pressure China to know how to behave in South China Sea (I hope I’m right this time).
I hope my analysis help you guys understand about Vietnam relationship with the superpower country and I hope you guys can give me feedback as much as you can.
Here we go again, CIA facts.
First there is no Nike, or Columbia Sportswear? Why? All Jewish familys based in USA, billionaires that do all manufacturing in Vietnam sweatshops.
Sure lot’s of companys since trumps tariffs came into play, have moved to Vietnam, that’s the plan all along, Israel owns Trump, they put him in power, they wanted to expand the price of real estate in Vietnam, they were early investors, this is what Zionists do “BUY LOW, SELL HIGH”
The south-sand islands ( spratlys by cia-talk, aka east-india-company ) plan to build a deep water port, dual ownership paid by China, managed by Israel.
See China seems to think that the best way on earth to manage the Anglos is to own, the Chinese know that Israel controls USA with AIPAC, they feel that Israel can control all anglo-goy nations on earth the same, that’s why China has hired Israel to ‘manage’ their assets all over the earth, in exchange the Chinese PLA will provide support and safety for all Israel Navy worldwide.
Thank you so much for your “comment”! Now everyone know that China is very opportunism in many ways, and China is not anti-imperialism (China is incoming imperialism).
Firstly – I prefer your grammar to anything you could substitute it for. I like your grammar mistakes – they are easily understood and please don’t worry about them…they’re AWESOME
And this is very well documented article and its interesting. I didn’t know about Israeli weapons…so again Israel fails the good country test…selling Vietnam weapons that don’t work…hopefully VN won’t buy US F-35s…
I don’t agree with you about China and Russia….those two countries trust each other. The only country closer to Russia’s heart is Syria….closest of allies….but that is Russia protecting Syria not the other way around….
China will not attack Vietnam even if the mosquito Vietnam will attach China…they are different animals and actually connected with umbilical cord that Vietnam denies. Silly VN
Thanks for your work and your humility. Its all news to me.
I agree with you everything!!
China will not attack Vietnam even if the mosquito Vietnam will attach China…they are different animals and actually connected with umbilical cord that Vietnam denies. Silly VN
I think I should add one detail: Vietnam cannot invaded China but Vietnam can defense itself from China.
Thank you so much for your kind word!!
Best Regards,
Unorthodox Black Sheep VN.
Ann,
Neither Russia nor China trust each: international affairs are not carried out based in emotions and sentiment, both Putin and high level chinese officials (at valdai) have underscored this point by pointing out that they are not “allies” but partners. In fact, it was the chinese delegation head that refused to be cornered (by an enthusiastic and naive Russian reporter) into stating that China and Russia were allies, he quite bluntly refuted this and truthfully said we are partners in certain areas that is all.
What Unorthodox Black Sheep VN has pointed out in this article (China’s own hegemonic behavior and ambitions and others is valuable and necessary to break the exaggerated thinking that had become prevalent here (some time back); ie., that China was the global savior, a paragon of virtue and other nonsense about their new found win-win altruism. The global savior role being foisted onto China and the lazy cowardly expectation that implies “Let China do all the heavy lifting in breaking the Empire’s hegemony” is something the Chinese rightfully chafe against and reject.
Much of the Vietnamese hatred against the Chinese was manufactured during the French colonial era, especially after the ban on the Chinese alphabet.
The information about this is incorrect. Vietnam-China relationship is very complicated, and Frech colonial is not the reason for Vietnam hatred on China. I suggest you should read:
/special-report-vietnam-between-the-us-russia-and-china/
Banning on Chinese alphabet is not the main reason. Vietnamese-Chinese word or Chữ Nôm (𡦂喃) was very hard to learn than Chinese original word, and the only learning method is parrot learning. Ho Chi Minh began to use the Latin-Vietnamese alphabet because the alphabet easy to learn, remember, useful for pronunciation and it was necessary to save people from being not know how to read and write.
Re: Hill
Vietnamese’s hatred of China runs much deeper than a measly 80 years, give or take, as a French protectorate. It may be hyperbole, but we Vietnamese have a specific term for it: The Thousand Years Yoke (ách ngàn năm đô hộ). More so than any country, we know very well of China’s true ambitions. Do you think the Chinese have ever forgotten about their “sick men of Asia” period? They have not.
so you think china is imperialism too?
Their history consists of nothing but imperialism. I know there are many people on this forum who drink the kool-aid of Godfrey Roberts and Pepe Escobar who don’t agree with me, and that’s fine.
Is Vietnam history consists of nothing but imperialism?
@anonymous Jan 15 3:12 am.
Irrelevant if Vietnam ever exhibited imperialist tendency (Champa/chaam) or not, that is sophistry and attempting to change the subject.
The point being contended was China’s imperialist or hegemonic behavior against the Vietnamese and ever other state they could bully. It’s only because this fact is being denied and some want to, irrationally, only look at China thru rose tinted glasses that China’s record in this area is even being brought up.
Hey everyone, my typo:
“China may possible so some potential in South China Sea so they entrust Vietnam more than China”
should be:
“Russia may possible see some potential in South China Sea so they entrust Vietnam more than China”
My bad!!
“Nobody dies” does not excused Chinese imperial actions
According to the BBC, “an estimated two million Vietnamese civilians were killed, another 5.3 million injured and about 11 million, by US government figures, became refugees in their own country” (emphasis added).
Vietnam has apparently excused the U.S. for killing so many Vietnamese.
So perhaps China should kill several million people in Vietnam and poison the land for generations to come with Agent Orange? You would excuse China for doing that?
Dear Sir/Ma’am,
Please concentrate on the content. I’m talking about the current event not past. I know AngloZionism is more brutal than China.
My point here is China actions in SCS can cause people die in the future and war too. So this is reason why we must prevent any incoming dangerous in the future.
Nobody dies -> someone dies.
@Unorthodox Black Sheep VN
I’m talking about the current event not past …. My point here is China actions in SCS can cause people die in the future and war too.
You mean Agent Orange will not be killing anybody or creating monster babies any more? So you are worried about future dead Vietnamese caused by China, but you aren’t worried about future dead Vietnamese caused by the Americans ?
@Cyril
You mean Agent Orange will not be killing anybody or creating monster babies any more?
Please don’t put the word into my mouth, I don’t understand why you angry like that. I never said anything like that. What you say should be appied to pro-US Vietnamese, not me.
Look, what China are doing right now is very dangerous and Darwin Award. In fact, US even trolled China and Vietnam with the dash line in movie “Abominable” during the October 2019. The movie, in my opinion, is the proof to show that Chinese elites is really arrogant so they truly don’t understand that the movie is just make Vietnamese hate Chinese more. If Chinese elites is not arrogant, then they had removed the dash line from movie. US, from my own observation, is trying to provoke two countries to kill each other. That why China must change their behavior around SCS to gain more trust from other countries especially Vietnam. No matter Vietnam win or China win, both country will suffer so much on morale, economic, life, etc. and US will come to finish the remain one. Trust me, I see the deadly US intention.
Am I the only one to find cognitive dissonance above?
@Sh0tek
I agree with you that it is cognitive dissonance. It is crazy, I know.
Excellent response Unorthodox Black Sheep VN!
Hey everyone, one more bizarrie typo:
“China is just best ally to China”
should be
“China is just best ally to Russia”
My bad!!
It is strange that Vietnam hates China for ramming a fishing boat, though no Vietnamese died in that incident.
However, Vietnam loves the U.S. even though the U.S. killed an enormous number of Vietnamese and poisoned the land with Agent Orange.
I find this very puzzling. Can you explain this?
Please:
Chinese ships chase Vietnamese fishermen away from Vietnam’s waters
https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/chinese-ships-chase-vietnamese-fishermen-away-from-vietnam-s-waters-3992519.html
Hanoi: Chinese ship rams, sinks Vietnamese fishing boat
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2019/03/08/hanoi-chinese-ship-rams-sinks-vietnamese-fishing-boat/
China prevents Vietnamese fishermen from recovering sunken vessel
https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/china-prevents-vietnamese-fishermen-from-recovering-sunken-vessel-3992345.html
I had checked and all of them is true. “Nobody dies” does not excused Chinese imperial actions.
About Vietnamese pro-US mindset, I will talk more in my future report.
Amarynth is correct in her reading of Russia’s policy towards Vietnam. If push comes to shove, Russia will not fight China over Vietnam.
During the Sino-Vietnamese border war the Soviet Union basically stood back although it sent military ‘advisors’ and materiel to Vietnam. Of course, Russia is not the USSR but the same calculus applies. Vietnam and even the ASEAN region itself is not of very great importance to Russia, certainly much less important than Central or Northeast Asia. The region is too far for a land power; more important, Russia has no vital interests in the region notwithstanding Russian oil and gas investments. One proof of this is Russia’s willingness to vacate Cam Ranh Bay after the lease ran out and Vietnam upped the rent.
Russia engages with the region of course but mainly for commercial rather than geopolitical reasons. China makes noises when Russian O&G companies collaborate with Vietnam in the South China Sea. One could hardly expect it to keep quiet after proclaiming the SCS as its own but as far as I know O&G exploration goes on unhindered.
This is just my own theory. This is 2nd Cold War now anything that crazy and illogical can be happen. I don’t say just I am correct about this, but who know, so just put mine in consideration.
Really, Vietnam rams Chinese fishing boats as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-spwog6Je4
https://time.com/2847104/china-says-vietnamese-vessels-rammed-its-boats-1416-times/
And fishermen are known to tell big stories.
I am sorry if such a deep sinophobia exists in Vietnam. And I am sorry if Vietnam forgot the terrible terrible war.
On the water though, there is a rule – I don’t know if this rule is written down anywhere but it is very well known to anyone that has ever spent time on boats. This is the “Law of Tonnage”. In other words, if the other guy is bigger than you, you better get out of the way first and fast.
Vietnam is in a way trying to use this rule by building a bigger and stronger fishing fleet
https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/vietnam-advances-plan-protect-disputed-maritime-claims-stronger-fishing-fleet
The SCS is disputed waters between a number of ASEAN countries. It is a very old dispute that became hot when China declared the 9-dash line. Then things calmed down a bit and this last year this dispute became hot and again the US interfered as there is a negotiation for a Code of Conduct between the disputing countries in the SCS. This Code of Conduct is almost complete and expected to be done in 2021. It is very complex trying to make all the competing interests happy. And of course, minerals and oil play a part. (It is actually even more complex than the negotiation for the JPCOA with Iran).
https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/article/2186449/explained-south-china-sea-dispute
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/11/03/asia-pacific/politics-diplomacy-asia-pacific/beijing-says-ready-work-asean-south-china-sea-code-conduct/#.Xh2ZlRt7mUk
China insists that this dispute has to be solved inside of the region and with all the ASEAN countries. I agree with China here, given the fact that the US, Japan and Australia fleets of Freedom of Navigation armadas, threatening everybody in the area, is increasing both in frequency and size.
One thing that I was happy to see, in the first UNSC of the year with Vietnam having the chairmanship, their Foreign Minister made a good speech and his language told a big story. Whereas the western countries droned on about ‘a rules based international order’, the Vietnamese foreign minister came straight out and said No, International Law must be obeyed. ‘Rules based international order’ is of course code language for obeying the current hegemon. These speeches are important because they show future policy.
From business people I hear that it is very difficult to take any kind of manufacturing from China to Vietnam, as the infrastructure and supply chain does not exist as well as in China. But this move to Vietnam as a manufacturing base may also change – we will see if this week the Phase I US/China trade deal is signed and fwiw.
I’ve watched this area for a long time even before I saw John Pilger’s slow, but excellent documentary, The Coming War on China.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDl9ecICIYg
But Russia pressurizing China for Vietnam? Or ‘saving Vietnam’ from China in one way or the other? I don’t know so much about that one and it does not sound plausible analysis to me at all.
My husband has actually sailed those waters, and one time got stuck in a typhoon where they sat for 3 days with only a small steering storm sail up and trailing things to reduce their speed. Wild waters.
@amarynth
Really, Vietnam rams Chinese fishing boats as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-spwog6Je4
https://time.com/2847104/china-says-vietnamese-vessels-rammed-its-boats-1416-times/
And fishermen are known to tell big stories.
Ma’am,
I have to criticize you on this one. Do you know that you go full “whataboutitsm”?
I never said that Vietnamese is innocent in the SCS. The video you send to me is about 6 years ago. What Vietnamese Coast Guard do is just a very small payback to China imperialism action during 2014. Who did create the mess first in 2014? China, of course. Do you ever see Vietnamese come around China sea territory and sink Chinese fishing boat? No, of course.
I always try to find the most recently incident (2018, 2019, and now 2020) to prove my point meanwhile you will use anything that fit you belive without question them.
Vietnam airs video of Chinese ship ramming fishing boat (2014)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSj_TPKwINk
Do you just accuse the victim of Chinese ramming liar???? There are many video show that China is always the one ram Vietnam first. Everytime is eyewitness. I even go around ask people about this.
Vietnam rammed China 1416 times in SCS??????? ROFL. You literally belived anything China said without even question their claim.They can make up the number you know.
Ma’am, I know you just try to explain that China is not imperialism country but the link you give me, in my opinon, just make China like a thug.
amarynth, I may be wrong but I think it appears Unorthodox Black Sheep VN (rather than Vietnam) is trying to dispute those islands. As you posted in last cafe, all countries has sign the agreement and there is a official dispute channel should anything else arise in the future. I have also ask if he lobby china directly but no reply.
So, is Unorthodox Black Sheep VN official representative of Vietnam? If so, why is he here on some public forum insisting china is imperialism like everyone MUST see that and follow? That china is so dangerous and it will invade Vietnam? but he said himself Vietnam can defend herself – so whats the problem? not enough fish for Vietnam ppl? If he is NOT in official Vietnam representative, then everything he ‘discuss’ here is his personal opinion or bias.
I then have asked if he is a fisherman or knows somebody that is in the ramming incident and suffer direct loss but there was no reply to that. So what exactly is the point here? that we must agree with him that china is imperialism and he pray china will repent? If so – okie he wins and good luck.
China will repent to Unorthodox Black Sheep VN! China is imperialism and china is evil! Happy? You win again!
I am sorry I still dont get what he is trying to achieve here. China may invade surrounding countries, thats a possibility I cannot rule out. But that is so outdated dynasty thinking, even USSA and CB dont do no more. They just loan the country a odious debt and written the loan without exit clause and ever looping never get out of jail. Who invade another country these days (other than USSA)? Rather than sharing his personal opinion china is imperialism, why not talk about how the Vietnam young generation can lift their consciousness and leadership to make Vietnam a better country so NO other surrounding country (not just china) will even dare to invade? Those who want to invade Vietnam, is not just china, as all other surrounding country may and today, now, USSA is clearly imperialism. Is USSA invading Vietnam today?
Anonymous on January 14, 2020 · at 8:08 am EST/EDT
Don’t try to smear me, I think I answer you right? I have answer you before. How the hell I can disputed the island by posting my report and comment in the blog??? Don’t be paranoid.
Remember, you started your first post in Saker with asking us to look into the corruption inside Vietnam,
now suddenly you are just saying to everyone, ‘china is imperialism’ and nothng else.
What happen?
So do you want to help Vietnam? Or you want to defeat china imperialism as you call it?
You can do the first one since you are vietname citizen.
But unless you can go to china and talk to the china gov and force them to change their policy, then there is no discussion. You are just sharing your opinion, ‘china is imperialism’ and nothing will change, EVER!
SO we are really just wasting our time here.
Do you agree?
Again, I ask you, sincerely, do you want to help Vietnam’s corruption (like you first publish here in the begining)?
Or you want to somehow (I dont know how) challenge and defeat china imperialism? How you think you can defeat china imperialism? Let’s hear it.
“Remember, you started your first post in Saker with asking us to look into the corruption inside Vietnam,”
Yes, and the corruption manifest was also written of in its varying forms, if I remember rightly, but is necessary to expand out from the corruption to attempt the peripheral vision. Also helpful is to keep Vietnamese history, traditions and the character of its people in mind.
The nature of the corruption is important, how to understand this, from where are the sources of influence achieving their greatest impact ?
Everything is global, so think globally, connect the interests of world centers and countries of power.
@Mia
I can even provide more examples of how corruption work in Vietnam. I know corruption from daily life not from propaganda.
Point on, It seem this guest writer is projecting his own nationalistic impression of China. I am missing his point? All that i have read is typical Vietnamese generalization and fears of China and definitely historically driven. it also reminds me of what nationalist Indians say about China very biased and crude and lacks historical and factual evidence. BTW Russia has alot more to gain with China then Vietnam. Recall they have a Comprehensive Strategic Partnership of a New Era. The highest level bestowed between countries. Vietnam not so much. Russia understand, as big powers, that is China’s region of influence and interest. they will stay out of it,
Have the Vietnamese already forgotten?
– the My Lai Massacre – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre -,
– the Napalm girl – http://100photos.time.com/photos/nick-ut-terror-war – and
– the victims of “Agent Orange” – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo_vqIS78FE
(You can change the video’s subtitles to English)
My love towards Vietnam is eternal like to mother Russia, Srbija..how you can not love those hearts full of sincere hope and devotion to their country.
Im also immortal fan of vietnamese ganja..what a genetics inside one area..now can only remember VN Black, Nah Trang..lovely!
Or perhaps should we think about Vietnam – China relationship and try to find similarities to that of Finland – Russia. The rate of population and strength is about the same scale. And history? Much talk about short period of war but forgetting that long time of peace and co-operation. Vietnam is for China a buffer state just like Finland is to Russia. No military basement of Empire there and most of issues have been solved. And as almost all Finns do know it was Russian Empire which created the nation called Finland and gave them that status. Not Swedes.
FWIW, back in the late 1990’s in a Saigon newspaper,
( there were different ones aligned to different parts of the government: Army, Party, etc )
not sure which one,
there was an article praising an Israeli general – maybe M.Dyan – again, not sure.
Seriously, wtf – the Vietnamese are praising the Israeli military ?
You could see the political corruption, ( obsequiousness ) way back then too.
Two more data points:
Speech by PAVN officer to college teachers – VN wont break ties with China – punchline ( paraphrased ) look after your students: remember Russia, first thing Yeltsin did was cut college pensions.
( can’t find a link to an article about this, was sometime in mid 2010’s )
After 1979, VN sold American military spare parts to Iran
( from soldier of fortune magazine, late 1990’s )
>“Schriver said the U.S. and Vietnam share a common interest “in promoting a rules-based order, protection of sovereignty, individual rights of countries, no matter their size and our shared concern that there’s a potential erosion of a rules-based order, one that has allowed all nations in the Indo-Pacific to rise and prosper.
This term ‘rules based order’ should alarm everyone. It really means the U.S. makes the rules everyone else must follow. But the U.S. does not have to obey any rules. Those ruling the U.S. don’t care about any other country’s sovereignty, individual rights or prosperity. Not even for their own citizens. This prosperity of the west which so lures those of other nations is more of a facade. It is disappearing rapidly.
This issue with China and the South China Sea needs to be solved. There are laws internationally governing how far our from the coasts any country can claim as their own. It is not legitimate to simply start building islands in the middle of a vast sea and then measure out from the shore and claim all that area as their own. It is sounding like the belt and road have some serious obstacles to overcome if it is going to be a success and result in peace and prosperity. Have the Vietnamese forgotten some of the industrial products the U.S. introduced to your country so many years ago? Wonderful products like agent orange and napalm?
I don’t need to say anything about Israel. You already understand them.
Russia has been a good friend for so long. China is your next-door neighbour. The two countries need to find a way to get along. As for the others, they should be kept at arms length as not having the interests of Vietnam in mind.
“There are laws internationally governing how far our from the coasts any country can claim as their own. It is not legitimate to simply start building islands in the middle of a vast sea and then measure out from the shore and claim all that area as their own.”
Wrong, wrong and wrong.
1. “There are laws internationally governing how far our from the coasts any country can claim as their own.”: No, there aren’t any laws governing how far a nation can claim sovereign on an island from its coast. If there is, US won’t be able to claim Hawaii, Guam, and UK can’t claim Falklands, and France can’t claim…, and Japan can’t claim…
2. “It is not legitimate to simply start building islands in the middle of a vast sea…”: wrong again. It is legitimate to building islands on reef and islands that belong to a nation. More than one hundred countries in the world have been doing it, including almost all claimants in South China Sea.
3. “…and then measure out from the shore and claim all that area as their own.”: You have it totally backward. China claimed those islands and reef first, among all other nations. As allowed in UNCLOS and stated in point 2 above, any nation is allowed to do land reclamation on islands and reefs of their sovereign. The dispute is not about land reclamation or EEZ, the dispute is about sovereignty, which is beyond the purview of UNCLOS.
I know those laws are confusing to lay persons like you. Just want to point out the mistakes since I am commenting to the author here.
@ d dan
so it appears china pass the legal requirement, but do you think its fair?
yes I know ‘fair’ is a emotional and personal word here.
Just seeking your opinion since you are the only one here the room with legal expertise, it seems. Thanks!
Yes, that is exactly why China ignores UNCLOS in this case – UNCLOS is not designed for this event. This issue gets complex as I’ve said before, UNCLOS is on an international legal basis very thin to start with. That is also why China ignored the arbitration that The Phillipines brought – jurisdiction over sovereignty.
https://carnegieendowment.org/2016/08/24/chinese-views-on-south-china-sea-arbitration-case-between-people-s-republic-of-china-and-philippines-pub-64397
There is a bigger issue though, and that is the Western Interference in the region. It must be difficult for Vietnam to try and remain fairly independent while all these types of ‘storms’ swirls around but, they must negotiate within the region. For the peace of the world, they must do that.
One other issue – Back to the fishing boats playing bumper boats. The writer calls it whataboutism. I think it is just a way to discourage anyone to look at the bigger picture – and this is not a criticism – we all play the card we are dealt with.
The bigger picture here is that fishers bump one another always for the slightest reason – This is not an issue unique to Vietnam and Vietnam cannot cry – The Chinese are only bumping our boats ans we are the only victim. So whatabout it.
Fishermen fight ferociously.
Last year, the scallop wars – Britain and the French – They actually bumped one another out of the way and brought stones on board and pelted one another with stones.
The previous year, the Cod wars – UK and Iceland.
And you can find fishery wars all over and regularly.
So, this whataboutism is to put forward that Vietnam is not unique in fishing ‘wars’. Our writer perhaps want to put that forward, but it is not so. This is not meant as a criticism, but a look at the wider perspective. There is still time to negotiate this one peacefully. I hope Vietnam negotiates very hard for their rights.
@amarynth
Ma’am,
I’m so sorry for misunderstand your point. I call whataboutitsm because I truly thought you are being unhealthy protective to China. From your comment above, you are not. You are right and I agree with everything you say.
Best regards,
Unorthodox Black Sheep VN.
@ Craig Mouldey
I suggest you should read this to understand more about Vietnam neutral position:
/special-report-vietnam-between-the-us-russia-and-china/
Hi everyone,
I sorry for my “China is Imperialism” comment get you guys attention from the content of my report. Please concentrate on whole content of my report, not Vietnam-China only.
Best Regards,
Unorthodox Black Sheep VN.
Unorthodox Black Sheep VN, I wont speculate to your personal motive or what kind of person you are,
but PLS DO consider this with open and rational mind –
→ IF china is imperialism, READ CAREFULLY!
→ IF and IF china is imperialism, according to you,
→ then everyone here will know, china WOULD NOT just take those few island, china will take the whole of vietnam, then Laos, then Thailand, then Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia, then Tibet, then Mongolia, then even Russia. THAT’S IMPERIALISM! Imperialism like the old british, they invade all the country in Asia, NOT just few tiny island.
→ second, as other experts here has try to reason with you, if china is imperialism, then china won’t even bother to setup internatinal law framework and sign the peaceful dispute channels. China would just send navy, and even arny into your country. Now that’s imperialism. Just like USA is doing everywhere this days. Any country they feel threaten, they just send aircraft carrier there, sanction the country, and pass law in their congress, the president and everyone in the country is ‘terrorist’. That imperialism. China has not done any of that but offer a peacful dialouge.
So either 1) you have no idea what you are talking about, 2) you have a different definition of ‘imperialism’ or 3) some other personal hidden agenda here (good bad or ugly) it is not in my place nor interest to judge so you dont have to worry what I think of you.
READ CAREFULLY again, if you, Unorthodox Black Sheep VN, in sincere in this discussion.
If china is imperialism,
you are saying china will not just stop at taking those few island alone.
You better pray for your country,
china does not take over vietnam!
China’s imperial ambition will NOT stop at few tiny small island alone!
China has vast army and weapons enough to counter USA, why stop at few island?
Do you understand what I am asking you to consider/learn here?
btw you preface you post here as your ‘theory’ so you are saying you can be wrong. (the definition of ‘theory’ mean you are testing but you can be wrong)
I wish you and the ppl of vietnam well.
China is an imperialism country, the problem that they are extremely bad to become imperialism.China want to become imperialism with the Great Han ideolog. China does not take few island in SCS because China does not have chance yet. Read again the Great Ten Campaign in the last 18th century and begin 19th century when other imperialism went around and kill people. China will do it in the future.
1. They are waiting to do it. Soon or not soon. They are building Chinese version of “Israel Settlement” in Africa, they are building aircraft carriers, the ship that is used to attack the defenseless country according to Saker.
2. Do you notice that Chinese navy go around other countries sea territory? Nobody will accept the China dash line, deal with it. There is no such thing China peaceful talk, Chinese peaceful talk=being inferior slave of Great Han. Today, imperialism is not only mean kill people but put the country knee down on economic too. Read:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_chauvinism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinicization
Yes, I know wikipedia is CIA tool but two link is good to review.
In conclusion, anti-imperialism should not idol China.
You can keep screaming I am a CIA, Sinophobic, etc. anything you want. I don’t care.
Like it or not, China is imperialism.
Dear Unorthodox Black Sheep in VN,
I greatly appreciate your article, and all of the replies you have made with care, humility and respect.
I see that you are sincere and wish the best for all parties, unlike many who take one (imperialist) side over another.
The natural history of China is to rule all of the world, as the Han Chinese see it, and they have good reason to see it that way, but problems repeatedly develop when people of an identity take so much abuse that they would rather die together than take more abuse. These people are often Chinese, too.
Sun Yat Sen was more wise, but he got cancer and died before his work was done properly.
Ho Chi Minh was also more wise than he is often portrayed by one side or the other. He was a Vietnamese Nationalist, in my view, seeking the American help after WW-2, which the OSS had given during that war, but the American imperialists at the top overrode the advice of the OSS on the ground.
It is a necessity of survival to play the interests of empires against each other. It is expensive, but being colomized is more expensive and humiliating.
My father was a US Marine Major in Vietnam, coming home just before the first Tet offensive, when I was 8 years old. His mother grew up as an American missionary child in China from 1908 -1914.She was greatly influenced by those years. I still have some of her nice old Chinese things.
I am influenced by His Holiness the Dalai Lama, who some accuse of being a CIA asset, but he has a difficult role to play to serve his people, and I know he is a true spiritual teacher because of his influence on me, both in person, immediately when he looked in my eyes in 1991, and smiled, and by my study of his teachings, which I apply.
It is very hard to keep the interests of all life forms in one’s heart. It is easy to choose one side.
Putin and Lavrov are masters of diplomacy and balancing interests.
I may now have offended everybody, but maybe not…
Thank you so much for your kind word and great information!!!
To me, Ho Chi Minh is a True Patriotism and Mysterious Figure (due to some blank part of his history).
The problem I have with the Sinophilia here that they always use “Vietnam is imperialism” to excuse China imperialism behavior. The different is Vietnam choose not to become imperialism country and China choose to become imperialism right now. China (Chinese Elites) is really pretty opportunism, they play “many faces” tactic with every country good or bad, and they will do what they had done in the past like funding Polpot and Mujahideen in the future, soon or not soon. I am in fact I hope I’m wrong but China behaviors in SCS and apologitic on China imperialism from Sinophilia just reinforce my “Sinophobia” opinion.
Best Regards,
Unorthodox Black Sheep VN.
@ Anonymous on January 15, 2020 · at 3:33 am EST/EDT
By the way, watch:
Chinese Imperialism In Ecuador
https://youtube.com/watch?v=JVpDWYjM6hQ
Chinese Imperialism Rises in Africa
https://youtube.com/watch?v=rXPTRtsxQ3I
China is not Socialist: A Few Points
https://youtube.com/watch?v=vKFr1IP1TQQ
Keep denying if you want. Your Sinophilia behavior is very entertainment to me.
By the way, I am a powerless “peasant” with no agenda in the blog. I can go around and ask people in my country to confirm the information.
Another example:
/the-hidden-power-of-pro-us-faction-in-vietnam/#comment-734250
Unorthodox Black Sheep VN, you have done an excellent service here by pointing out and opposing the absolutely obvious sinophilia (as you term it) by certain commenters and even article writers (like Pepe Escobar) here. I tend to use the more blunt term: sinosycophancy. Either way such tendencies clouds objectivity, and hurt the intellectual quality of this blog site: thankfully this is not as prevalent as it used to be. Also thanks to your articles and comments the blog has brought more balance and facts onto the table.
What some don’t understand is that being a fanboy or uncritical is more harmful to chinese than anyone else (it’s also lazy and unfair to the Chinese).
You bring up very points that western neocons have contempt for both China and Vietnam and would love to encourage conflict that damages both countries. And you are also correct that the current belligerent unsophisticated and arrogant attitude amongst some of the more hawkish members of China’s policy makers is playing right into the hands of the slimebag warmongering weasels in neocon thinktanks.
@Anaam
Thank you for your kind word, Anaam. If you curiousity about the “Pham Van Dong Letter 1958”, and “Vietnamese Geography Text Book 9th Grade Class 1974” , you can review my explains why two things are not proof to prove that “Vietnam approve Paracel Islands and Spratly Islands” belong to China same to South China Sea.
/moveable-feast-cafe-2020-01-10/#comment-743552
Best Regards,
Unorthodox Black Sheep VN.
China has been at war with Vietnam off and on for close to if not more than 2,000 years. Vietnam won’t submit just like they refused to submit to America and the French. They are the toughest gurella fighters in the world next to Korea. The BRI and the Maritime B&R are close partners with Russia and its EEU and EAEU and the SCO and it seems they would be the best economic partners except for the 2,000 year history of mutual animosities.