It has been my recurrent effort on this blog to try to explain the likely reasons why Russia has not intervened so far in the war between Banderastan and Novorosiia. I notice that those who see signs of “betrayal” or “sellout” by Putin are long on accusations but very short on specifics. Unlike the excellent article which I recently posted as a “must read”, the folks who are busy accusing Putin of betrayal stop at the very short term: send guns, send men, impose a no-fly zone, strike this or that unit, etc. Fine. And then what? It is that “then what?” which our armchair patriots systematically shy away from. Besides “then what?” the other issue which these armchair strategists shy away from is “what if?”. What if the Bandera freaks really open up with everything they have, out of spite or out of retaliation, and what if they really flatten Kramatorsk, Slaviansk or an entire neighborhood of Donetsk? What if the dead at this point turn from tens or hundreds into the many thousands? Those who mistakenly believe that the junta forces have already used “massive artillery strikes” should look up the concept “огневой вал” which is often translated as “artillery barrage” which, while not incorrect, does not even begin to convey the meaning that it has in Russian military doctrine. Rather than to give figures, just take a look at these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7Zslwq4dxk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAtQq5tAxs0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIpW7BuaPZ4 (shows Ukrainian training)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UNsqONPtGo (shows various systems)
My point is this: the Ukrainians have the systems needed to *really* flatten a town and they are trained to do so. So what if they do that? Then what?
Of course, Russia has the means to rapidly destroy the Ukrainian artillery units in the Donbass, but that would mark yet another escalation of the conflict. Then what?
Or what if the US orders Poroshenko to “request” the protection of NATO? And what if NATO does something really dumb like the initial deployment of the 82nd Airborne to Saudi Arabia as part of Desert Shield? Why do I call “Desert Shield” really dumb? Because unbeknown to the American public, the 82nd AB was put into a very dangerous situation: this light infantry force was deployed as a “tripwire” force meaning that if the Iraqis crossed into the KSA they would have to engage the 82nd and that meant attacking the USA. Brilliant? Hardly. The 82nd is a light infantry force which has zero change against the large Iraqi tank formations. The *hope* on the US side was that US airpower would be enough to stop the Iraqis. And it was just that – hope. Years later, I think it was Dick Cheney who was asked by a reporter what would have happened if US airpower would not have been enough to deter Saddam and if the 82nd had been butchered. You know what he replied? “We would have had no other option to to use our nuclear weapons”. So finally the truth came out: the White House was ready to take the risk sacrifice the 82nd AB and it was “hoping” that the US would not have to use nukes. I don’t know about you, but seeing Imperial leaders “hoping” not to use nukes really scares me.
So what if Obama (whose Administration must have an average IQ lower then George Bush Senior one’s by at least 20 points!) puts down a “tripwire” force along the Dniper and what if the Ukrainians organize combat operation or even military strikes from behind this tripwire force? Then what?
One more example? Sure!
It is not unreasonable to suspect that maybe 15%-20% of the folks living in the Donbass/Novorossia region are not pro-Russian at all and that they support the junta. This is a big area with, if I recall correctly, something in the range of 7 million people living in the Donetsk-Lugansk region, so even 10% of 7 million is still 700’000 people supporting Kiev. From these 700’000 let’s take on 10% capable of fighting (70’000) and let us assume that only 1/4 of them would be actually willing to seriously fight. That is still 17’500 men willing to fight in just two region of a much bigger south-eastern Ukraine. That is way more than the IRA ever had in its ranks. That is even more than Hezbollah has today!
Speaking of the IRA – remember how the Brits deployed in Northern Ireland to officially restore peace and security? (If not, see the “Operation Banner” entry on Wikipedia for a quick refresher). That also seemed like a no brainer at that time. It turned into a prolonged nightmare.
I could multiply such examples ad nauseam but you get my point: unlike some of our wannabe strategists, Putin and his Russian Security Council members have to consider the full-spectrum of possible “what ifs” and “then whats” before taking a decision to intervene. And I haste to add that a covert intervention is dangerous too: if, so far, Kiev has failed to capture a single Russian “agent” or “operator” this does not mean that this might not happen and that would be a political disaster for Russia. And if you think that the SBU could not catch itself in broad daylight you are right – except that in this case the Ukrainians would just be the arm of the US CIA/NSA who, you can be sure of that, are the one using all their formidable means to locate any Russian covert activity in the Ukraine.
I won’t even address the comments of some lunatics who are seriously suggesting that Russian should nuke London or any other such stupidities. I conclusion I will just say this: like it or not, there is a consensus in Russia right now that a direct intervention would be a huge mistake. As for covert aid, we can only speculate about it, but I do notice that the Novorossiia Defense Forces seem to regularly “find” “abandoned” weapons just of the type which they need most. As to those who constantly demand a Russian intervention in the Donbass I will say this: unless you can support your calls for intervention with all the appropriate “what ifs” and “then whats” – don’t bother posting them here as you are only making yourself look amateurish and irresponsible. If you are such a hero – grab a gun and go fight yourself, but don’t tell others when/how they should die.
The Saker
hi saker
i like your blog i follow it very carefully
i think if us is in ukraine it’s nothing like iraq, syria etc…
the us backed coup d’etat in kiev means direct war against russia
ukraine is not a middle-eastern country, it is more than a former soviet republic. from a geo-political point of view ukraine is russia and a nato military presence in ukraine is a western occupation of russian land
in other words, the us determination to bring war at russian edges could be the start of the wwIII. americans believe they can win i don’t know if by economic attrition or by nuclear attack but if they’re in kiev they really believe they can win
peter
Putin has already beaten the U.S. in an astounding and brilliant way.
Get this into your head, THE ANNEXATION OF CRIMEA WAS A CASUS BELLI. Think back. Some stupid North Vietnamese gun boat sailed within 10 miles of a U.S. cruiser in the Gulf of Tonkin and a war started that cost the lives of 50,000 American soldiers and hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese.
Russia annexed Crimea with Russian troops no matter how polite they were, after a carefully orchestrated neo-Nazi putsch by the U.S. in Kiev. The U.S. was not caught with its pants down. It was caught with its pants nowhere in sight. Think, please think of the quantity and quality of the Russian intelligence that permitted this to take place.
For proof? Just look at the “Western” media: Putin is the Anti-Christ, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, you name it. I’ve never seen a propaganda effort to match it in my life.
The main event has already occurred. That is why there is such a commotion and so much big talk.
It’s over. Putin will never, ever do anything that could even be construed by a madman as a casus belli now. He won.
Fragment of the interview with A.Fyodorov:
https://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2014/06/01/my-major-interest-has-always-been-psychological-warfare-and-this-is-a-doozy/
….
A: Let’s examine the situation in Lugansk and Donetsk. You know where we’ll start? A lot of people are asking, “Where are the Russian forces?” A colleague of mine has a neighbor from Ukraine, working in Moscow on some construction site. He happens to be from Slavyansk. He says angrily: “When are the Russian troops going to be there?” Our colleague asked, “Why?” He said: “My children are there,” in Slaviansk, “my wife and parents.” So he asked: “What are you doing here then, on a construction site?” Earning money. “You want guys from Ryazan to go and die there, while you’re earning money here?” He was offended by that question.
Q: He has to pay his bills somehow.
A: I know. He was offended. Now they’re not talking.
Q: Why such a reaction? We’ve had similar conversations with many people. They don’t want to fight a war for their lives, for their families. They want someone else to do it for them.
A: Because for 20 years they’ve been making vegetables out of people.
….
Let me say if I desire a Russian response it is not because I relish thoughts of war and am an armchair commando.
In fact I am a borderline pacifist and cannot even consider war justifiable unless restricted to the very severe restraints of the Christian Just War construct.
Perhaps I want a Russian response because I am appalled at the human suffering in the Donbass.
Perhaps I want a Russian response because I favor self-determination over tyranny and detest fascism.
Well. If I read some posts here…if I desire a Russian response, then I am a coward because I do not go and fight myself. Then I am also foolish because Father Putin knows best.
Please consider. Not all of us can volunteer. Some have family responsibilities. Some are old and/or have physical limitations.
So we cannot share our thoughts?
And maybe some who favor the current non-intervention are just making justifications for their own timidity.
I pray Putin does know best. Certainly he knows more about the situation than I.
But I am just dumbfounded by his inaction.
And here my good commenters is the grave danger: separatist victories reported in the “Western” press. How many of them do there need to be before we see NATO troops in Ukraine?
Border Guards Defeated
Can everybody just stop burying the rebels already. First of all, they are not dying like flies. Strelkov’s unit losses so far have been low. Many more civilians have been killed than actual militia. Even during yesterdays Ukrainian Army attack it was 7 dead and 10 wounded, which is a lot compared to their previous losses – thus Strelkov’s reaction. Today it is only two wounded. The Ukrainian Army, NatGuard etc. losses are much heavier, measuring in hundreds. There were relatively substantial losses at the Donetsk airport (around 30 dead in one truck), but the operation was a huge screw-up, which was admitted today by the Vostok battalion commander Khodakovsky. At the moment the DPR and LPR militia is getting bigger in numbers, better organised and better armed. At Slavyanks they have also shot down not just a number of helicopters, but apparently also two Su-25, which has lead to the planes not flying any lower than 3 km and thus not hitting their targets. This does not mean that they can withstand a Ukrainian attempt to flatten a city, and they still lack heavy weaponry and aviation. But overall the situation is far from catastrophic at this point.
Why Russia is silent –
Good insight, will need to use google translation as it is in Russian.
http://m.kp.ru/daily/26239/3121485/
Nora said…
“I owe you a sincere thanks from the other day. I’m so glad you understand, and agree. And 39 years is pretty darned impressive!”
Dearest Nora,
You don’t owe me anything, it is I, who enjoy your excellent posts and keen mind. Yes, we had our ups and downs in those 39 years, and hopefully there will be some more. ~:)
The concept of Lucifer in Christianity is really troublesome. In both Judaism and Islam, satan is a noun, which means “adversary” of mankind. In Islam it could mean “evil adversary”.
In TaNaKh in Isaiah, King of Babylon is mentioned as “Morning Star”. This has been intentionally mistranslated in OT as Lucifer, which is not even a Hebrew name.
In Islam only power given to satan is “power of whisper”. Don’t underestimate this power, it can be your heart (mind), your friends and/or enemies. Few good examples of this power is:
1. German War Machine in WW2.
2. The Current Mass Media, CNN and so forth.
3. As described by George Orwell in his book called, 1984.
God tells us in the Quran that satan has no power over God’s Abdis (Worshipers, Servants, Slaves). It is us who give this power to satan. And, in the Quran God tells us, that “satan plans, and God plans”, then as usual the Quran ask us a question, “Who is best of the planner”.
If you want to know Lucifer, then I believe a good book is “Faust” by Goethe. I believe he was a Muslim. Randy Newman has done a double CD on “Faust”, where Randy plays the Devil and James Taylor with his beautiful voice plays the Lord.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
Putin them in their place again! Looks like Putin’s had a few words of wisdom for the West.
http://rt.com/news/163676-putin-ukraine-french-us/
On Russia, defense, sovereignty, and opposition parties:
Amid the tensions concerning the latest $1.6 billion military deal that France will supply Russia with two Mistral helicopter carriers, Putin said he hopes the two countries will continue to develop their ties.
“Overall, our relations in this area are developing well, and we would like to continue strengthening them – in aviation, shipbuilding, and other sectors.”
“A policy of expansionism and conquest has no future in the modern world. We’re confident that Russia can and should be a partner with its traditional allies, in the broad sense, now and also in the future.”
“Any country that becomes a member of a military alliance gives away some of its sovereignty to a supranational body. For Russia, this would be unacceptable. As for other countries, it has nothing to do with us. They have to decide such matters for themselves.”
james said…
“To support my view, I reference this short video of Putin a few years ago which demonstrates clearly his views on protecting civilian lives-
Measure your success by non-fired missiles”
Dearest Friend james,
Blessed are those who are peace makers. God bless you and thank you for such an excellent share.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
It’s the first time I comment even if I’m a long time reader. I am grateful to the Saker work but this time I am disappointed because his arguments are weak.
According to his arithmetic the combat pro-russian forces should be of about 140.000 (17.500:10%=x:80%). Where are they?
And please, please, stop saying that US leaders are all dumb. They are cynic, criminal, but not dumb! Please, please stop thinking that if Cheney did say a thing he would have done it!
For those of you that can read Russian, there is a brilliant interview of Mr. Putin with French newsman on French TF1 (http://ria.ru/politics/20140604/1010726831.html ). It’s much too long to translate, I’m sure excerpts of it will be out in distorted form before long. But Mr. Putin is clearly the only adult statesman at the gathering. Amazing person.
Putin about Hillary Clinton :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN8mpBO86Ac
I agree with Lucky, maybe because I am Serbian myself.
However, lets see what happens next.
The Wend.
Saker,
I totally agree with your analysis.
But the emotional side of me would love to see Russia ‘kick ass’, bloodying the nose not only of the Ukie fascists, but of their Judeo-liberal handlers.
This is not the moment, you’re right. But as the Irish say, our time will come. The emotional ones in our camp simply (simplistically) want it sooner than later — despite the strategic disadvantages.
Some commentators are arguing for limited Russian involvement, saying that Russia should act in the same criminal matter as NATO and the US always do. This is a reflection of a Western mindset.
Peacekeepers, No-Fly Zones, humanitarian interventions & corridors, and proxy wars are all Western tools of destabilization and escalation. Russia will not destabilize or escalate. Russian tanks will only move to enforce a permanent political outcome – what ever that is. (The Saker earlier argued that the new border can only be drawn on the Dnieper.)
Crazy Ivan, they can’t move because a N Reactor (or multiples) will be dropped as a provocation and blamed on Russia.
I think this whole thing would already be done with but for the N’s.
N reactors are an albatross around the neck of civilization and it will take 200 to 300 years to suck the poison out. If humans fail at this, a little bit longer.
The fact that putin still talks of anglos controlled mortal enemies england and its satellite usa and europe as partners and traditional allies shows that putin is not only delusional but has turned mad.
Russia with such leadership which wastes time in pleasing and justifying its own exisxtence to the mortal enemis is a pathetic site and doomed for destruction within 1 to 2 years
I have to say, Putin is brilliantly working on US’s European allies. I still think drop a few bomb on battalion DombAss and others, or give them means to do so.
Here I have link to insignificant Igor (God I can not stand you people here so disrespectful for the people putting their life at front line), I like to this specific page because I love the song here: http://vk.com/strelkov_info?w=wall-57424472_1377
I hope you are right saker. I hope Putin know the best. Most of all, I wish people of South east the best.
Anglos are confident. That Russia thinks toobmuch what if and when rathervthan acting and taking Initiative-that is why west can dare attack Russians at neighbourhood of Russia,
As Paul Roberts saod 3weeks ago Russia lost chance to act and take east Ukraine within 2 Weeks of coupe_all just to explain herself to her enemies as good boy,
Rusdia is really doomed because of her naivity and stupidity,
@maedhros 16:55 june 04
I couldn’t agree with your following point more:
With all due respect, this is not an analysis, it’s a rant, and that’s all its value: next to zero, but maybe even less.
That’s despite the fact that I too believe that Russia should not take the bait and invade Ukraine, but not for reasons Saker has outlined (which seems to be based on the emotion of fear rather than strategy).
Most definitely if the EU is supporting and arming fascists openly, Russia, out of pure self interest should continue to open spigots of covert aid to turn the screws on Kiev and the psychos in Brussels. Right now the Kiev forces are taking a hiding from rhe Donbass forces, each day greater and greater numbers of men join the donbass forces, meanwhile the boneheads in Kiev are forced to press-gang young men into service as well as begging foreign recruits from Europe.
Your reasoning calling out the fallacy of folding before someone has even called your bluff is spot on. Being scared of the Kiev thugs catching a Russian operative as excuse for inaction is bad strategy because criminal liars in Brussels, Kiev and their media whores will make this accusation whether or not this happens or not, and if it were that crucial to their propaganda efforts theyd plant one of their own operatives there and claim he’s Russian irrespective of the facts.
@Mikhail II:
Zerohedge has some of his comments from that interview here:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-04/putin-hillary-it’s-better-not-argue-women
Love.That.Man. I admit it. :-D
For those that havn’t seen it there’s a brilliant summary of Putins talk with the French Media at RT
http://rt.com/news/163676-putin-ukraine-french-us/
What he says makes so much sense, and contrasts with belligerent rhetoric coming from the likes of NATO, that the latter looks like childish temper tantrum stuff. That alone is enough to guarantee it will be suppressed by the western MSM. What if war were declared and nobody turned up??
Anonymous 21: 55
He ruled with an iron hand.
He put an end to the dreams
Of so many in every land.
He had a chance to make
A brand new start for the human race.
Instead he set it back
Right in the same nasty place.
Wonder who wrote that… And you do know where, and with whom, the Koch family made their fortune, don’t you? Obama, btw, was welcomed by the entire planet for the simple reason that He. Was. Not. Dubya. And George Soros is hardly the only oligarch financing this crap — there are plenty of Republicans up to their eyeballs in it also. It’s an American effort, totally bipartisan. Don’t believe me? Name one Republican of national stature who is AGAINST what we’re doing — mind you, not simply critical that Obama’s not doing enough, but genuinely opposed. Just one. And Ron Paul is retired, so don’t even bother — but you can take a good look at his waffling sellout son. I don’t like the Dems either, but the Republicans and Tea Patriots are worse. Ask a couple of them now holding office what they think.
If we’re going to change this, we’ve got to work together against ALL of them. Dumping on one side only is hardly the way to go.
Assuming as Mr. Fyodorov said that Ukraine is now already occupied by US through mercenaries (he told clearly – if Ukrainian Army did not intervene when the armed groups arrived to Ukraine it meant they agreed to the occupation by foreign forces, here the US military forces) so asking NATO to help the US Army would be legal.
================================
This statement is beyond idiocy!
I believe some of the commentators advocating Russian intervention are working for the other side. The neocons have been dreaming of a Russian invasion of Ukraine for a long time.
==============================
I believe you are on Kaganites payroll, trying to spin as their most cherished desire what in fact literally terrifies them: Russia getting serious and starting offering them the same partnership she’s receiving. There’s only one thing which will exact some respect by Mad Dogs: a Mad Bear!
For those who can read french, this article, published in 2008 is more than an analysis. It’s a prospective analysis of the Ukrainian crisis. You’ll understand why Russia do not intervene “officially” in Easter Ukraine. A must read… Now, if someone wish to translate it in other languages that would be a tremendous help to better understanding the (very dangerous) present crisis.
http://contreinfo.info/article.php3?id_article=2294
” The 1 Billion fund sought Mr. Obama would be called the European Reassurance Initiative and would require congressional approval. it would pay for added military exercises in Europe, including Navy deployments to the Black and Baltic seas. It could be used to aide the militaries of countries such as the Ukraine…etc.” WSJournal 6/4/14 pA6. Well, let us see if the so-called Libertarians show their mettle in the US Congress in this debate.
There have been several important replies/comments on the last few posts – first Bot Tak’s information on the Russian/Ukrainian border: if Kiev loses control of sections of the border that is a major development.
Second there was a comment about the response of an eastern Ukrainian citizen to the question of why he wasn’t volunteering – he had to work and was expecting someone else (Putin) to intervene and ‘save’ his region.
Third was lostinukr sergei’s report on his friends and relatives thoughts and opinions – oblivious to the suffering of their fellow citizens in the east and a lack of clear information on what is actually happening including the truth about the Odessa massacre (and probably the Maidan sniper shootings) and the bombing in Lughansk. Kiev is controlling the media for good reason – the truth is a fearful thing here.
The poster who pointed to A. Solzhenitsyn’s ruminations on Ukraine was spot on. The wreckage of the USSR left many unresolved issues in Ukraine (and elsewhere) that independence has done nothing to resolve. From my wife’s contacts in Kiev and conversations with the diaspora here I can attest that they overwhelming view Russia as the cause of their problems – even Russian speakers who have little in common with western Ukrainians and are not ‘nationalists’ by any stretch. They have little competent information on what is happening and believe the propaganda despite their natural cynicism and contempt for politicians and government functionaries. I have seen an online comment by a Kiev resident about how dull and stupid were those he met when traveling in eastern Ukraine – “they will believe anything” he offered as an explanation for their separatist inclinations.
These divisions are real and indicative of deeply held prejudices. Intervention by Russia would be to step into a minefield. These issues must be resolved within Ukraine, by Ukrainians. Russia cannot fix such problems, even if so inclined. People must wake up to the reality of their situation – or not – and commit their personal energies to finding a solution, whether that means taking up arms or some other course of action. Some in the east have chosen. Most Ukrainians have not.
These are my thoughts.
the pessimist
Just a little encouragement for everybody here:
http://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachrichten.de/2014/06/04/absage-an-obama-slowakei-will-keine-nato-truppen-staitionieren/
It’s German, but here’s the Bing translation:
“The Slovak Premier FICO graciously rejected the offer by U.S. President Obama to commit troops for NATO on Slovak territory. He claimed they had had bad experiences with the Red Army in August 1968.
“After the Czech Republic, Slovakia has also rejected the stationing of NATO troops offered by U.S. President Barack Obama . ‘I can not imagine foreign soldiers in their own bases right in our country’, Prime Minister Robert Fico said Wednesday in a press conference on the issue after the offer of the President. FICO said that since the invasion of Soviet troops in 1968, there were special sensitivities in his country.
“Obama promised a stronger NATO presence to those Eastern European Member States of the military alliance which felt threatened in the Ukraine crisis by Russia. For this purpose, one billion dollars was to be provided. The Czech Prime Minister had then declared his country would not ask for any deployment of troops and would not call for a reinforced military presence in NATO in Europe either.”
And if you think that’s good, wait to you read the comments–all praise for the Slovaks!
– Seamus Padraig
@ Observer
That’s despite the fact that I too believe that Russia should not take the bait and invade Ukraine…
===========================
gh
I’m not supporting any invasion, what’s the need for an invasion now?
I want her just to level a bit the
ground and start repaying those people with their own money.
Let’s discharge a few Iskanders to the right places and issue an apology immediately after: “Sorry guys, a fat finger… was just trying to call home with my mobile on the desk….”
After all, it’s not less plausible than their bringing freedom and democracy or pretending there’s a legitimate government in Kiev.
“technical issues” leading to need for gradual reduction in pressure of E»W flow of gas from midsummer onwards?
New Crosstalk.
Excellent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgpraIHljJY
– Bic
In reply to 04 June, 2014 16:41, the Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl thing — I am seeing this scandal start to get MSM legs in ways that Obama’s obviously criminal use of the IRS to go after the tea party and other political opposition ahead of the 2012 elections has not gotten.
Same deal for Benghazi, which was never about a video but about massive gun and MANPAD running from CIA-seized warehouses full of Gaddafi’s hardware to the Syrian jihadists. Picking up a non-Saudi source of light sweet crude and introducing a central bank after stealing Gaddafi’s gold were just the first two objectives, the third was equally important of using Gaddafi’s paranoid 40 years of arms acquisition to create a gigantic arms dump for the Syria rebels to use to overthrow Assad. The reason TPTB are using the Bergdahl thing to pressure Obama is because they can try to scapegoat their former puppet and partial front man Obama for all the f ups of the CIA, NSA and shadow/4th branch of government over the past several years (including US defeat in Afghanistan) that have contributed to the BRICs/Russian resurgence and the spectacular rise of anti-EU and anti-DC feeling across the world.
Regarding Bergdahl again, watch out for some Greystone or other military contractors to be listed as having ‘died repelling a Taliban kidnapping attempt to capture more Americans to swap for prisoners at Gitmo’. This of course will bolster the Fox News Narrative of Obama as the paintywaist librul who looks weak to the whole world, when in fact the contractors who died ‘in Afghanistan’ actually were killed by a MANPAD shootdown or NAF mortar assault 2,000 miles away from Afghanistan in Eastern Ukraine!
I’m telling you guys, if there’s a sudden surge of Greystone KIA or ‘training accident/helicopter crash in Afghanistan’ deaths, that’s surefire evidence in plain sight that Lavrov, Der Spiegel, Bild am Sonntag et al weren’t kidding about Greystone US mercs fighting (and dying!) in SE Ukraine.
American Kulak
1) Thank you Saker for reminding us how desperately D.C. and NATO want Russia to launch air strikes or directly invade, and for hinting at what close observers of these comment threads have noticed for days: there are many sincere commenters here hoping Putin acts quickly, but also more than a few very professional looking and subtle ‘concern trolls’ whom I suspect could be traced back to Gliesching, Germany, Tampa, Florida or some other EURCOM/CENTCOM ‘information warfare’ US Cyber Command hub, as well as Kiev.
The banksters/NWO are clearly convinced that they’ve cleverly set up the ultimate LOSE-LOSE for Russia whereby either Russia stands by and watches Novorossiya forces get crushed or Putin directly intervenes with at least air and cruise missile strikes on Ukrainian targets, inevitably killing civilians and shifting the story from Ukrainian bombing of Ukrainian citizens to Russia’s Blitz and the plucky Ukrainian people resisting it.
The sheer weight of the ferocious commenting saying ‘f Putin he’s a loser’ or ‘LOL Putin is hanging the people who believed in him out to dry’ (Yulia Joffe’s line, which makes me almost 99% certain that it’s been NATO/DC approved) tells me the NWO/banksters are as desperate as ever to provoke undeniable official Russian intervention or induce despondency among all who pray for the junta’s defeat.
Even the Luhansk air strike with the EuroMaidanPR, Taras Kuzio and Thainer psychos shamelessly lying about it being a MANPAD explosion until finally admitting it was an ‘air strike gone astray’ today leads me to think there are wheels within wheels. That is the lower level minions put out stupid talking points, not knowing what else to do, while the higher level provocateurs used a Georgian or South African merc pilot to bomb downtown Luhansk (other Russian sources say the pilot radio chatter was caught by Russian listening posts 35 miles away across the border and that the pilot spoke Russian).
American Kulak
From Abraham/Avarachan:
Dear Saker,
1) You’ve mentioned in the past that Pres. Putin has survived a number of assassination attempts. Could you provide details of the attempts (to the extent prudent)?
2) Do you think Hugo Chavez was assassinated?
4) If small countries know about the above, then why do they come to the U.S. for U.N. meetings (etc.)? Don’t they know the risk?
5) How does Russia deter the assassination of its top officials?
Thank you very much for your time.
FEMEN participated in the Odessa massacre.
Активистка Femen участвовала в бойне у Дома профсоюзов в Одессе (An activist of the Femen participated in the massacre at the House of trade unions in Odessa)
http://lifenews.ru/news/134460 (trans) http://translate.yandex.net/tr-url/ru-en.ru/lifenews.ru/news/134460
See also this article:
Fake “Feminists” of Femen Participated in the Odessa Massacre
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2014/05/19/18755970.php
And these photos:
“Photo: Femen leader Ievgeniia Kraizman participating in the May 2nd Odessa massacre. She was part of the group of Maidan fascists who burned alive, shot, strangled, and beat to death 116 anti-fascist protesters on that day. The two accompanying photos shows her in other Feman actions.”
http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2014/05/19/external.jpg
“In 2011 Femen leaders Inna Shevchenko, Sasha Shevchenko, and Victor Svyatski can be seen at a small picket against Belarus. Flying over their heads is the red and black checkered flag of UNA-UNSO, a far right paramilitary group that merged with the neo-Nazis of Right Sector during the Maidan riots. Standing right next to Inna Shevchenko and Sasha Shevchenko is one of their Femen comrades holding a banner that is clearly marked with the logo and name of the neo-Nazi Svoboda party. The Svoboda banner reads, “Long live independent Belarus. Freedom for Ukraine”, “No to red terror”. Of course, these are absurd slogans for Svoboda, a neo-Nazi group that calls for executing Ukrainian Russian intellectuals without trial and endorses Nazi collaborator and mass murderer Stepan Bandera as their hero. As the Femen held Svoboda banner suggests, another campaign of Femen has been against the deformed workers state of Belarus which has avoided many economic problems found in Ukraine by continuing to maintain a planned socialist economy since the days of the Soviet Union.”
http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2014/05/19/image019.png
http://www.indybay.org/uploads/2014/05/19/image020.png
The Indybay article documents the connections between FEMEN and the American/Israeli “regime change” orgs and FEMEN’s association with the Ukrainian bandera nazis.
Thanks to anonymous at 21:55 for giving me the opportunity to post another of Pete’s songs – this one is pretty poor sound but the enthusiasm is infectious – I really hope anonymous will reconsider his assessment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=RDujzKk_4WBsE&v=ujzKk_4WBsE
If Mr. Seeger were still with us (he was a very hopeful ninety plus year old man when Obama came on the scene – we were all hopeful, do you remember? The whole world was hopeful!) he would be with all who suffer in the horrible wars of this still young century. I am proud to be his kind of American.
If I had a hammer, I’d hammer in the morning
I’d hammer in the evening all over this land…
It’s the hammer of justice
It’s the bell of freedom
It’s the song about love between all of my brothers
All over this land
In the madness of war someone had to be a true American.
Pete Seeger was.
Antoine,
Linky no worky, malheureusement.
the pessimist,
To what extent do you think that, in addition to the language and confessional differences, social class (either actual or aspirational) may be a factor in here? What I’m getting at is, if the workers in the Donbass are content being workers, but those in the West (particularly of course Kiev but also other areas) see themselves as, what, “beyond” that, either en-route-to or actually having achieved (even impoverished) middle class? Call me naive, but I have a hard time believing anyone really thinks Russians are stupid!
2) Nonetheless despite all the NWO’s Hell-spawned efforts to either induce escalation up to or including nuclear WW3 or despondency as the false alternatives, I am feeling more optimistic today.
The NAF clearly either acted very professionally alone or more likely had HUMINT/SIGINT ‘help’ in identifying the weakest link among the Luhansk border crossings and it would appear once the leaders of that particular UKR border guard outpost were taken out or bribed dozens of their UKR border guard subordinates all said ‘f— it’, took off their uniforms and left with great relief on their faces.
Reports that Russia has offered sanctuary to the border guards families away from Right Sector reprisals and even the hope of jobs in the Russian Federation border guards service (possibly in the Caucases or on the Baltics away from Ukraine) tells me Putin’s people are still looking for less kinetic ways to subvert the Ukrainian regime and keep the border wide open for increasingly lethal (to the UKR Nazi Guards/Right Sector and their air support) and broad humanitarian assistance/evacuation of elderly and children to Russia (with every evac shown on RT to the world as the victims of Kiev’s war to further embarass the Beltway fascists).
In essence, GRU and the FSB’s Border Guards service appear to have successfully helped the NAF to open a wide open corridor for humanitarian and military supplies to roll to Luhansk, at least at night when air attack from UKR forces will be more difficult and convoys can be guarded by ZSUs/MANPADs (with the explicit hint to the Ukrainian pilots that their superiors won’t be able to tell the difference if they’re blasted from the skies by an IGLA or a S-400 while performing a night bombing run). Thus the NAF has its own ‘Ho Chih Minh Trail’ that just like the original isn’t just for foot or animal traffic but heavy truckloads of ordinance — including hopefully radar guided truck-mounted ZSUs and SAMs that will prove devastating to the UKR Air Force and soon force Kiev to turn to Polish, Baltic or South African merc pilots in desperation as crews/plane losses mount.
American Kulak
3) Strelkov and his men — like Chuitkov’s forces at Stalingrad — do not need to WIN so much as HOLD a point where they are. Strelkov and Slavyiansk are the anvil. Lugansk and Donetsk cities with their much larger manpower are going to be the HAMMER. I saw a tweet today pointing out that Strelkov’s top deputy commander is a specialist in AIR DEFENSE. That should tell you what awaits Kiev’s pilots — including night vision goggle equipped spotters, radar guided ZSUs and even radar-guided truck portable SAMs — when they fly the deadly skies soon.
Strelkov holds while offensive and SAM forces are built up in his rear areas of Donetsk and Lugansk — including finally some large mortars and even pocket arty/WW2-vintage Katyushas that can be towed into position and used to hammer Karachun hill and finally silence those guns.
Neither airpower nor ground obstacles can hold a border. Only MEN can do that. Forcing the surrender of the UKR border guards
especially all of those with local (read: families relocatable to Russia) ties will force Kiev to send more loyalist Nazi Guard/Right Sector troops just to plug the gaps, making fewer available to besiege Donetsk or Slavyiansk, and also opening the NatsGuard/PS convoys up to getting shredded in rebel ambushes planned using Russian SIGINT and SAT intel. Last but not least after weeks of us speculating here based on Juan’s reports that Kiev has been ‘stashing’ casulties and hiding them from its public and the world, confirmation:
https://twitter.com/llessa80/status/474310518359212033
Ukrainian language report that ‘Dozens’ of Ukrainian forces wounded medevaced from Donbass to Kiev DAILY
If we can deduce that Kiev is losing dozens of men a day and UKR morale is in the toilet, how much more do ya’ll think Putin knows about specific UKR commanders who will either defect, surrender or stand aside as the Nazi Guards scream for help when the rebels launch a Stalingrad-style counter offensive to encircle the besiegers and force Kiev to capitulate to peace talks with the DNR/LNR or send even less motivated conscripts literally at gunpoint?
The darkest night is just before the dawn. This goes out to the defenders of Slavyiansk:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA2arvEeZlc&list=UUJK-4qSaHCbi4M_nYmLu6Eg
Song of the Dnieper (appropriate for those who will drive the fascist enemy to that river once again)
American Kulak
American Kulak,
An emphatic YES! to everything you said except Obama using the IRS to go after the Tea Party — more Dem/Lib groups were affected than Repub. Also, the clearest politicization I’ve yet heard of was Dubya’s folks not just delaying/denying but actually REMOVING an Episcopal Church’s tax exemption for — you got it — daring to stand up for peace and against the Iraq War. Now *that* was truly outrageous! I don’t pity Obama though for being scapegoated — He. Totally. Deserves. It. It’s just that he’s not the only one.
How the hell can we get rid of these monsters short of a small nuclear device in D.C.?
juliana,
Me, too! And when he sang “This Land Is Your Land” at the Inauguration concert, he made sure to sing the “forbidden” verses, too:
As I went walking I saw a sign there
And on the sign it said “No Trespassing.”
But on the other side it didn’t say nothing,
That side was made for you and me.
In the shadow of the steeple I saw my people,
By the relief office I seen my people;
As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking
Is this land made for you and me?
Nobody living can ever stop me,
As I go walking that freedom highway;
Nobody living can ever make me turn back
This land was made for you and me.
Some few musings about Femen (the source wants to remain anonymous for obvious reasons):
“The source of the funding for the organization, which has been reported to be paying double to triple the average wage in the Ukraine, which has been confirmed by subsequent research. The second is the battles that it has been picking or more precisely which group and country it has notably left out of its burlesque-style protests: jews and Israel…there was a rather belated announcement in December 2013 of a Femen chapter in Israel…(but)There is none of the trademark Femen violence against religious symbols: no burning Torah scrolls, throwing copies of the Babylonian Talmud into pig pens, no running naked through Hasidic neighbourhoods and so forth… From what is known about their funding: the key player appears to be an individual named Jed Sunden. Sunden is a Brooklyn-born American jew who founded a major Ukrainian newspaper/media company; KP Media (which owned the Kyiv Post till 2008/2009 for example), and also is an active part of the Ukrainian jewish community. Sunden was the man who ‘discovered’ Femen and it was he who began to give them the oxygen of publicity (and notoriety) for their topless protesting in the Kyiv Post”.
Who funded Plutser Sarno, Voina, Pussy Riot? Can anyone seriously believe that “The collective had no income, philosophically rejected salaried employment and the use of money. Its members lived a DIY scavenging ethic and putatively “made the lifting of food and drink from supermarkets …a form of art”, as Wikipedia suggests?
Interesting comments over the last few days about repression of protests by Ukr Army conscripts’ mothers in W and Central Ukr; any further details available?
Hi Nora,
I didn’t mention language – all those I spoke about speak Russian. It is not class – my wife’s contacts live in a working class area of Kiev and life is a struggle for them (and getting more difficult). The commenter speaking about those in eastern Ukraine was probably middle class. There is also the feeling of superiority (similar to New Yorkers) common to those who reside in Kiev. Its not that they think ‘Russians’ are stupid, just that the rest of the country is populated by bumpkins. The criticism “they will believe anything” applies just as much to the commenter as to those he was referring to in this case. Or rather, people tend to agree with that which reinforces their own bias and believe those who think otherwise are fools or ignorant.
Another factor is that young urban dwellers tend to feel that any nostalgia for Soviet times (more common the in older generation) is ridiculous backward thinking. Soviet = Russia
= the past. The transition caused terrible hardship and that is what most younger people recall.
The Maidan protests were possible in part because there really was/is widespread discontent/anger with a corrupt political system. Many people have friends and relatives who work in or have emigrated to Europe, and there is a common sentiment (in Kiev) that they would like Ukraine to be considered a ‘European’ country. They resent the visa restrictions on travel. Most people were not aware of the fine print in the EU association agreement and simply viewed it as a step on the path to membership in the EU – not understanding that the terms were quite harsh and Ukraine would never be allowed membership without drastic changes that would take many years to effect, if they could be. It is easier to blame Russia than to take ownership of the real problems that confront Ukraine and the personal sacrifices that would be required for real change – just look at the population here in the US! Same problem.
Read the Solzhenitsyn piece if you haven’t (think the link is in comments on previous post).
just my impressions.
the pessimist
Good additional risks assessment analysis from 2009.
http://www4.carleton.ca/cifp/app/serve.php/1490.pdf
It was asked how many people in Ukraine might support/sympathize with Donbass/Novorossiya.
One possible way to look at this is to compare the election results of different regions from the 2012 parlimaentary election. For breakdown, assume Party of Regions/Communists are passive/active support for Novorossiya, Fatherland/UDAR/Radical part are pro-coup, and Svoboda is radical Nazi. Then we have the following percentages (won’t add to 100 because of minor parties)
Russia
Crimea+Sevastopol: NR = 73%, Coup = 20%, Nazi = 1%
Donbass
Donetsk+Lugansk: NR = 83%, Coup = 10%, Nazi = 1%
Novorossiya
Kharkov+Zhaporizhia+Odessa+Mykolaiv: NR = 61%, Coup = 29%, Nazi = 4%
Dnipropetrovsk+Kherson: NR = 54%, Coup = 39%, Nazi = 5%
Northeast Ukraine
Kirovohrad: NR = 40%, Coup = 48%, Nazi 6%
Poltava+Zhytomyr+Sumy+Chernihiv: NR = 34%, Coup = 51%, Nazi = 7%
Transcarpathia: NR = 36%, Coup = 48%, Nazi = 8%
Southwest Ukraine
Vinnytsia+Chernivtsi+Cherkasy+Khmlnytski: NR = 27%, Coup = 57%, Nazi = 9%
Rivne+Volyn+Kiev+Kiev City: NR = 22%, Coup = 56%, Nazi = 17%
Ultima Banderastan
Lviv+Ternopil+Ivano-Frankivsk: NR = 7%, Coup = 53%, Nazi = 35%
These percentages are not hard and fast, but they give a good idea that in much of Ukraine, between 1 in 5 and 2 in 5 people might symapthize with the Novorossiya idea without any need to question their existing ideology.
They also show dramatically, why Crimea and Donbass found the wherewithal to offer active resistance while Odessa and Kharkov have not. In Donbass, potential coup supportes are outnumbered 8 or 9 to 1. In Kharkov/Odessa, the split is 2 to 1.
@ American Kulak
Your facts included in the latest 3 part comment are worth making it a separate post.
Not everyone must agree with your remarks about others’ beliefs or understandings but the facts should be known to the broadest scope of readers of the blog.
From me – thanks!
For those who search for good translator, there is another good service:
ABBYY Lingvo-Online
http://www.lingvo-online.ru/ru/Translate/ru-en
Good for word(s) and expressions.
US lamestream media now admits border in Lugansk region is wide open and 11 crossings may have to surrender or risk assault with families begging the commanders to let their loved men go home rather than die trying to hold points against overwhelming assault:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/04/witness-to-a-ukraine-rebel-breakthrough.html
American Kulak
American Kulak:
other Russian sources say the pilot radio chatter was caught by Russian listening posts 35 miles away across the border and that the pilot spoke Russian
Of course he spoke Russian. All intelligent people in Ukraine speak Russian everyday. Russian Ebonics, aka Ukrainian, is language of western peasants, trash collectors, and street sweepers. Even the coup-sters all speak Russian everyday.
Much to the distress of the Ukrainians, they can’t get the people to actually use the fairy-tale lanaguage.
Conheço dois ucranianos aqui no Brasil.
Os dois são filhos da puta, não querem saber de trabalho.
Os dois casaram com mulheres brasileiras em Portugal, fizeram filhos.
Porque vieram de longe, falam muito sobre “Euro”, “como é bom lá”, “como é a neve” etc..
Trabalhar que é bom, nada!
As mulheres que trabalhem.
Profissão dos caras:
“marido”.
Saker, te juro, é tipo dos caras que eu mandaria voltar nadando para Europa se pudesse Kkkkkkkkkkkkkkk.
Proftel.
From the comments at the guardian, but worth repeating here
List of killed in Lugansk the day before yesterday,
(by artillery fire – at the block post, by SU-25 fire – down town, on 02.06.2014)
1. Anton Akimov – block post.
2. Dmitry Nikolaevich Kulish, 1975 – block post (погранотряд)
3. Vladimir Andreevich Kostukov, 1971 – down town
4. Inna Alexandrovna Kukuruza – down town
5. Alexandre Alexandrovich Gizay Гизай – down town
6. Woman without relatives. – down town. (no one claimed her, buried unknown
7. Nina Alexandrova Dolzhenko, 1955 – down town
8. Sergey Nikolaevich Polezhaev, 1964 – down town
9. Natalia Victorovna Archipova – down town
10. Galina Anatolievna Cercass, 1967 – down town
11. Andrian Vladimirovich Ur – block post
12. Vitaly Jurievich Bulatov, 1961 – block post
13. Nikolay Vasilievich Borodin, 1961 – block post
These are buried.
30 are said to be wounded on the 2 June as well, also a mixture of defenders of the block post on the road in approach to the town, and there down town by those SU blasts, Su was firing at the square in front of the Town Hall.
So it’s a mixture of workers of the Town Hall, who walked out, and those who sat in the. kind of a mini-park, a lawn in front.
SU-25 pilot’s name is most wanted now in Russian-Ukrainian blogosphere.
Nora,
We can agree to disagree on that particular point re IRS. Past presidents — LBJ, Nixon, Clinton have all done it and gotten away with it, and Cheney’s people probably at least discussed it. I don’t know the tax exemption being pulled from the anti-war church story but IMO imposing the 501c3 status on churches and restricting their political speech thus is an infringement on their 1st Amendment rights anyway, as long as churches or any other religious orgs don’t donate directly to politicians they are free to do or say whatever peaceful advocacy they like.
The bottom line: if the elites who put Obama in office (just like Dubya, Clinton hell every POTUS since Wilson and T.R.) are going to ‘Nixon’ him they sure won’t do it over something as pffff as the IRS scandal. I still see Nixoning Obama as a remote possibility but the elites’ goal is to make him a non-entity politically so he will go along with whatever they have left in their bag of tricks to create maximum chaos prior to 2016-17.
I do see the Sgt. Bergdahl case as possibly an opening and certainly a kind of propaganda mcguffin around which all sorts of disinfo ops may be organized, i.e. claim several Blackwater/Greystone dead yet to be revealed died in Afghanistan instead of the truth that they died in Ukraine. Bergdahl to me seems a very confused young man but I understand why he did what he did but the calls of him being a traitor who fought alongside Taliban don’t seem supported by any real evidence.
Also at least I’m glad those who normally swallow whatever rubbish EuroMaidanPR or Tymchuk out are starting to ask questions or mock the really stupid theories Kiev presented for the 2 June Lugansk air strike. Tymchuk is still promoting the ‘it was a Russian false flag’ narrative hard claiming the Russian air force stole Ukrainian IFF, as if they would need that stuff to penetrate wide open air space only 35 miles from the border! Tymchuk had to realize nobody would think Russia would bother making a Ukrainian MiG-29 or Su-25 from Crimea flyable when Russia has plenty of its own. Anyway at least the shifting narrative underscores nobody except a few idiots believes it was an RPG, MANPAD shot into an HVAC unit, or other moronic theories put out there.
http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.nl/2014/06/ukraine-needs-to-come-with-really-good.html
Anyway my main point was that with the opening of the border in Lugansk territory even the pro-Kiev shills are getting nervous that more humiliating defeats are in store for the ‘ATO’ soon and images of 100s of surrendering Ukrainian soldiers won’t easily be spun away by the likes of Thomas Thainer or other trolly morons. The ‘OMG Putin must…do…something…now’ campaign will also lose steam if it becomes clear very large quantities of materiel are rolling across the border by the truckload and darn near every NAF trooper is going to have his own IGLA S soon.
R,
AK
You know it’s really bad for the banderists when the MSM (AP) writes:
“Pro-Russian insurgents captured three government bases in eastern Ukraine in a series of humiliating defeats for the beleaguered armed forces on Wednesday, as the president-elect promised new initiatives to help end the mutiny in the country’s industrial heartland.”
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/militants-killed-ukrainian-troops-injured-23984915
“Blessed are those who are peace makers. God bless you and thank you for such an excellent share.”
(“Measure your success by non-fired missiles”)
Thanks Mohamed. The psychopaths, the agents Ahriman, love to engage other psychopaths and/or enraged victims of psychopaths in war. It all helps their ultimate goal of destruction of mankind.
Their real and only enemy in the end are the peacemakers because they deny them the substance of their addiction – destruction. Everybody else feeds their addiction.
Thanks for you comment Nora.
Where-wolf left an amazing comment on the previous thread. I didn’t have time to comment on it then. It is worth repeating here-
Where-Wolf said…
Most of the people who visit this blog recognize the Anglo-Zionist elites have declared war on humanity. These people are literally psychopathic monsters. They are our first and only true enemies but try as we might, we will never reach them. They can neither be influenced nor turned. They will pursue their genocidal goals to the bitter end and it’s important for all of us to recognize this and adjust accordingly.
The next group of people are those who operate the system on their behalf. Most of these people are not our true enemies although many of them act like it. It is these people who must be targeted and turned against our monstrous overlords.
Almost every single one of you knows or comes into contact with some of the people in this second group. Police officers, soldiers, journalists and politicians amongst many others all have friends, families and neighbours. It’s time we told them what we think. Tell them what they are doing is wrong. Feeding their own families at the expense of other people’s families is immoral.
Target them!
All crimes are possible when good people do nothing. If you consider yourself a good person then you should already know your responsibility. You can no longer meekly lower your head when they walk into the room. Find an opportunity and confront them one on one. You will not help your case by making a scene. It is sufficient that these people know that you see them as a part of the problem. If others others tell them the same thing it will undermine their ability to do evil. Most of them have a conscience but they’re almost never forced to deal with it. Now is the time to let them know and make them uncomfortable.
Some of you still kid yourself and accept the lie that everything will turn out OK. Whether this is because you believe in our human ability to solve our problems rationally or because you believe that god is on your side, either way, you are a fool.
Stop playing this game according to their rules. Stop hoping that someone else will do what is necessary. The only thing that matters is what you do.
Which also means Faith without action is a fucking joke.
And YES! I’m a hypocrite, just like YOU. So what?! That’s the lot of us poor human slobs. If your own hypocrisy bothers you then it’s a sign of your decency but if my hypocrisy is the problem then I’ll see you in hell. That’s where we’re headed so deal with it. You don’t have a choice.
Prepare yourself and know what you’ll say so that when you do get the chance you can TELL THEM WHAT YOU THINK!
04 June, 2014 07:54
Last note of the night, from @gbazov (a Twitter feed I’d recommend as a reliable source along with @NinaByzantina):
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s218u6
Strelkov’s deputy says majority of his force are Ukrainians, some volunteers from Russia including one guy from Moscow, and a Russian volunteer snuck across the border on foot with a compass
https://twitter.com/gbazov/status/474389603839791104
Nazi Guard having to pull back from Krasny Liman (Red Ravine in Strelkov’s translated dispatches?), probably fearful reinforcements were on the way. Another possibility is chopper shootdowns are making it very hard for these more isolated outposts to get supplies reliably, they may have feared running out of food and truck supply convoys getting lit up.
https://twitter.com/gbazov/status/474375912457134080
Finally, if this is the authentic recording of UKR Su-25 pilot who bombed Lugansk, Russia’s equivalent to NSA has been very busy on the border and GRU has almost certainly positively ID’d this pilot (at last one witness says he knows this guy’s voice but won’t make the name public) and can send ‘we’re coming for you guys’ warnings to both him and his colleagues by means besides DHL/Federal Express…
The tide is already turning. Either the NATO mercs unmask and start operating more in the open as undeniable Italian/US/UK/Balt/Nordic/Polish troops, massive bombardment of civilian areas is ordered to further provoke Russia (God save the men who defy such criminal orders), or the Army units in the field may start deserting once their Right Sector blockers/minders are killed in large numbers.
American Kulak
@American Kulak
Wheres the recording of the su-25 pilot?
Good post. Too many fools forget about the “what if, then next” scenario, up to and including country level. The results are usually horrendous.
I agree with Saker. Russia should not intervene militarily. The “What-ifs” are just too scary to contemplate. Also this would be playing right into the hands of the US/EU/NATO plans. The top planners of the Novorossian forces and Strelkov aren’t idiots. (Russian intelligence either.) I’m sure they have some sort of contact with the Russians. I just cannot image ZERO contact. But of course this has to be kept absolutely secret because US/EU/NATO is desperately trying to get proof. If proof is found it would be a political disaster. On the other hand, I also agree with Observer who commented, “Being scared of the Kiev thugs catching a Russian operative as excuse for inaction is bad strategy because criminal liars in Brussels, Kiev and their media whores will make this accusation whether or not this happens or not, and if it were that crucial to their propaganda efforts they’d plant one of their own operatives there and claim he’s Russian irrespective of the facts.” Yes, exactly! But Strelkov will probably continue to deny any support, because think about it, his forces wipe out Ukrainian Army, NatGuard etc. without Russian support, without air power or artillery support! (seems they are doing that now!) While the Ukrainian Army, NatGuard etc. get huge support from US/EU/NATO? They have air power, artillery, tanks (MREs?) Man! that just tells you that the Donbass forces are committed, resourceful and fighting for their lives. Great PR, I mean who doesn’t like an underdog? So, I say keep “finding” these so-called “abandoned” weapons and make it seem as if the NDF and Strelkov’s forces are fighting with limited resources and winning! The world will eventually side with the underdog fighting fascist forces! Shit maybe we will even see a force similar to the “Lincoln Brigade” of Americans who helped the Spanish fight Franco’s fascists! Well, maybe not…
Mohamed,
Thank you again, and you know I always look forward to your comments for the very same reasons. And yes, marriage definitely has its ups and downs! :~) I guess it would be boring otherwise, huh? Now for Lucifer, which means Bearer of Light in Latin, for whatever that’s worth. Now that I realize my King James Version was based on some serious mistranslations, I’m a little reluctant to quote from it much, you know! But what I was taught — again, for whatever that’s worth, since we Westerners have obviously been misled (inadvertantly for the most part, I think, but still misled) — is that he was God’s favorite, but fell because of his pride. The “power of whisper” is a wonderful concept; it sure says what needs to be said right now about our media/government complex, now doesn’t it? And the Quran reference reminds me of an apocryphal Native American proverb where a young man comes up to his elder and asks, “I have two wolves fighting within me, one is Good and one is Evil. Which one will win?” And is told, with elegant simplicity, “Whichever one you feed.” Goethe’s Faust is an AMAZING book! For some reason, I decided one time that reading Mr. Nora’s copy, with one page in German facing the page in English, would be a good way to re-learn the German I was taught as a small child. Well, I want you to know, I did read it, and got it, and kind-of relearned my German, but the story totally stuck with me and the German disappeared again VERY quickly! If I read it again, I’ll definitely stick to the English… ;~)
the pessimist
“It is easier to blame Russia than to take ownership of the real problems that confront Ukraine and the personal sacrifices that would be required for real change – just look at the population here in the US! Same problem.”
I think you nailed it. And we really need to work on OUR own stuff — maybe it’s easier to blame our (entirely blameworthy) leadership than to take ownership of the issues we’ve *let* divide us and make the personal sacrifices WE need to make in order to get this country back on track.
Wow. It sure is easier to blame them, than fix US! Whew. Where do we even start? We should, you know. For Ukraine’s sake and everyone else in our line of sight even more than our own.
American Kulak,
I remember that church situation like it was yesterday — I just couldn’t believe my eyes when I read it in Episcopal Life, I think it was. As I said, that was the worst one I’ve ever seen. And yes, it’s always, always wrong, no matter who does it.
And for all my getting on your case, AK, I’m really struck by your grasp of, well, pretty much everything *but* we Leftish. Your Bergdahl suspicions strike me as brilliantly on target and I think you see the Lugansk border dealie correctly too.
God I wish we could figure out how to stop these bastards. (OUR bastards, I mean; those Ukies would stop instantly if we could just change our leadership, or somehow manage to change their minds on a few (ahem) things. (Well, ok, a WHOLE LOT of things.)
But how?
G’day BobS,
Good point.
The dirty fingerprints of the NED and the CIA were all over the Tiananmen Square ”Student Spring”.
For instance see also:
The USA’s decades long warfare against China (Parts 1 & 2) at http://abundanthope.net/pages/True_US_History_108/The-USA-s-decades-long-warfare-against-China-Parts-1-2.shtml
And: Tankman Tiananmen Massacre (Rare Documentary) Part 1 – http://abundanthope.net/pages/Political_Information_43/Tankman-Tiananmen-Massacre-Rare-Documentary-Part-1.shtml
Blessings,
Ron
****************
Nora said….,
” And the Quran reference reminds me of an apocryphal Native American proverb where a young man comes up to his elder and asks, “I have two wolves fighting within me, one is Good and one is Evil. Which one will win?” And is told, with elegant simplicity, “Whichever one you feed.””
Dearest Nora,
Yes, I have heard the elegant simplicity of Natives regarding two wolves. My wife mother is one half Native. So, my half breed children are Native too! With pride!
I believe “The Power of Whisper” is mentioned in “The Controversy of Zion”.
To me Goethe is really poking fun regarding the concept of Lucifer in Faust. Also, his poem about 3 days, Jesus being trapped in Hell.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
Nora said….,
“God I wish we could figure out how to stop these bastards. (OUR bastards, I mean; those Ukies would stop instantly if we could just change our leadership, or somehow manage to change their minds on a few (ahem) things. (Well, ok, a WHOLE LOT of things.)
But how?”
Dear Nora,
You are already doing it, especially with two things:
1. “Power of Whisper”, the good one. Educate the masses by spreading the Word.
2. With “Power of Pen”, again the “Power of Whisper”.
Keep up the good work! ~:)
Best regards,
Mohamed.
Why Couldn’t Russia impose a “Hummanitarian No Fly Zone over the Donbas..its not as if there isn’t a mountain of US created precedent for it..BTW Russia will take over the rotating duties of UN security council chair in this year.
I think Russia should take out Ukraine’s weapons manufacturing plants in the East and Central parts. Russia should use strategic missiles or bombing runs. Then it should arm the anti-Kiev puppet resistance with anti-aircraft weapons and batteries.
elurop @Anonymous
“The US will say: “F..k the what ifs, Poroshenko’s troops will be marching on Crimea”.
“Those sissies would not dare. That would be a Death wish if they do. Who would in a right mind would open a second front?”
Some data to add to context, although not omniscient.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l_jsvf1Jfg
Sorry, Saker.
Putin isn’t even participating in non-violent resistance.
He sold those people out.
Some more insight into why a direct Russian invasion is off the table + why the CIA and Right Sector are so arrogant and confident in their attempt to hold even eastern Ukraine as part of an extremely anti-Russian land area:
There are two psychoses rampant in the Eastern Ukraine population, which together compete with the mentally healthy portion of people as a majority in many places.
The first psychosis is that of the young and mostly female Maidan supporters. They were 25% of the East Ukraine population during the Maidan and are mostly liberal progressive types as college girls are prone to be. These people are mostly clueless about history and realpolitik and they KNOW they no nothing. For instance, they are shocked and surprised at the very idea that America may have wanted to aggressively expand NATO to force regime change in Moscow. Nobody ever told them this concept. This makes it easy for an older person to talk with them and set them straight. Obviously, Ukr TV isn’t trying to set them straight and Russian TV is banned from the regular airwaves. The Americans and Ukrs are terrified of east Ukrainians being exposed to pro-Russian concepts.
The second psychosis is more insidious and dangerous for those who want to see a pro-Russia eastern Ukraine come out of this conflict. Among the 75% of east Ukrainians who were anti-Maidan, were many conservatives who are like American neocons. Putin would have expected these people to immediately and loudly oppose the new coup gov in late February and to even ask Russia for at least some covert help.
They were outraged by the coup but, because they have a misguided sense of patriotism, they considered the uprising of the Crimeans with Russian help to be WORSE! This doesn’t make sense to a healthy mind. These conservatives tend to be the loudest in proclaiming that Right Sector does not even exist and did not perform the Odessa Massacre.
A 35 year old conservative woman explained this to me this way:
“Imagine a violent Democrat coup in Washington DC and the outrage it would cause among Tea Party members. Now imagine that Mexico takes advantage of this outrage to quickly grab Southern California, saying Southern Californians want no part of the coming civil war.”
She asked “Wouldn’t you drop your enmity for the coup government in DC to concentrate on fighting Mexico to win California back?”
I immediately answered “No, of course not. Land I don’t personally own means nothing compared to being ruled by those who put themselves over me by force.”
She was surprised by my answer. She fully expected me to say that the sanctity of LA and San Diego as American cities meant more to me than whether or not a new government in Washington was democratically elected or had a few neo-Nazis in it. She thought I would give my life to recapture Los Angeles from Mexicans while taking orders from a leader who had just removed the person I voted for from the White House.
And then a cold chill ran down my spine.
I realized that maybe the majority of US Republicans are such gungho
“patriots” that they would probably make peace with Occupation Wall Street usurpers, who had just taken the White House and Congress by force, in order to go to war with Mexico over the sanctity of San Diego as an American city.
Neocons don’t mind taking orders from Democrats.
Love of flags and national anthems is, unfortunately, still a huge problem with this world.
So there are too many conservative people in eastern Ukraine who should logically be on Putin’s side but who are on the opposite side.
The pro-Russians can still count on the main thing, however, and that is that the number of people willing to fight and die to stop federalization is less than 10,000 for the entire country.
Great article, Saker. I agree Russia shouldn’t take the bait, but don’t think they need just ‘sit it out’ either.
There are lots of things Putin can do. There’s no point negotiating with US, but the weak link is the EU, and there’s fertile ground there for him to work on. US wants them to up defence spending and impose more sanctions – both of which will lose them money. US is chaining them to a bunch of uncontrollable neo-nazi thugs, and the world is beginning to notice. With countries already restless and looking for referenda to get them out of EU, Merkel and co cannot afford to do anything too unpopular.
So EU wants ‘out’, but it can’t openly go against the US, and it can’t be seen to ‘back down’. They need Putin to give them an escape route – a position where they can claim victory without it actually costing them anything. The 3 top dogs (Merkel, Hollande and Cameron) will want the chance to talk to Putin without the US – and (oddly enough) that’s exactly what’s just about to happen.
There’s a lot he can offer them. Eg:
1.Crimea – Offer a second referendum on whether it wants to return to Ukraine – but with international observers and by the book. Putin will still win – Crimeans will know exactly what Ukraine will do to them of they go back – but his position will then be unassailable in international law. The UN’s own charter supports the right of self-determination, and if the referendum’s legal then he’s good to go.
Result = Putin and Crimea get what they want. EU get their ‘escape clause’ to save face – they can say ‘Why didn’t you do it legally the first time? This is all we were ever asking’. US gets bugger all and serve them right. If Ukraine winges about compensation Putin can make a very easy ‘goodwill gesture’ to shut them up. He can concede Ukraine loses out by no longer getting its ‘Crimea discount’ on gas, and agree to compromise on the price in future. I suspect he’s already planning to do this, which is why the Gazprom negotiations are dragging on, and why they set the new price so high in the first place.
2. East Ukraine – What Putin can’t do is ask the ‘rebels’ to disarm. They’d be slaughtered and he knows it. What I hope he can do is trade, and promise to guard his borders if both sides declare a ceasefire for negotiations. Ban-Ki-Moon has already said Ukraine should use ‘exclusively peaceful means’, and EU will see it if US doesn’t. For the people of Novorussia, Putin can ‘pressure them’ by threatening to close the border to refugees. It’s essential he makes some kind of ‘threat’, or it’ll look as if they were acting on his orders all along, but it’ll also give EU their escape clause, so they can say ‘Putin has at last conceded he must help control the rebels’.
In the last resort, if US still refuses to accept this, Putin should say he holds Obama personally responsible for any harm befalling the people of Novorussia if they disarm – and US won’t dare take it. Not even US can control Right Sector, and those dogs of war have well and truly slipped the leash.
And then? Maybe negotiations will achieve the federalism the people of Donetsk and Luhansk really want, but if it doesn’t we’ve now set up Plan B. With the precedent of Crimea safely in the bag, how about another referendum…?
Beyond that, who knows? With Crimea in Russian hands the US may not even push for Ukraine to be in NATO – instead of being an asset it will have become a vulnerable entity on Russia’s borders. If they do push for it when Putin has said it’s a red line then US will appear as the warmongers. They are, of course, but they don’t like people knowing it.
Putin will have a cleverer plan than anything I can think of, but I’m just listing some of the options he still has available. No, he shouldn’t take the war-bait, but I think all is not lost just the same.
6. Woman without relatives. – down town. (no one claimed her, buried unknown
So sad.
Вечная память
Mohamed,
Wow, your kids are really lucky — such wonderful backgrounds! I hope they appreciate it. What tribe is your wife? You just blew me away about the Goethe though (btw, my kids had a guinea pig they named Goethe — but not after the writer, after a street named after him that had a wonderful playground!). I was always so frightened of the Devil that I guess I was incapable of viewing him as a construct or literary device. Now I’ve *got* to go back and re-read it!
And thank you re: the power of the Power of Whisper. I don’t think it’s enough though. They’ve really got us bc our electoral choices… really aren’t, they just play to the ginned-up differences between us. On substantive issues they’re pretty much all for the same thing, Ukraine being the latest case in point, Social Security coming up next, etc. If it didn’t cost so danged much to run for office, maybe decent (un-beholden-to-others) candidates could stand a chance, but the sell-outs are the ones who’d have to vote to change the system they’re benefitting from! George Carlin, who saw these things as clearly as they can be seen, refused to vote — and I just might too if my “choice” in 2016 is Hillary vs. Jeb — but that doesn’t change things: they couldn’t care less. And old-fashioned political organizing (REAL, non-Obama political organizing, I mean!) started at the ground-level, literally going door-to-door and *asking* people what the issues were that really concerned them, then got the interested ones involved, helped identify neighborhood/local leaders, maybe guided them a bit or suggested strategies to achieve *their* goals, etc. But it always started out locally and then as people got into lower-level offices, they moved upwards to county, state, etc. And. We. Haven’t. Got. Time. To. Develop. All. That. Even with the wonders of the Internet, however long we’ll have it, I’m thinking we’d need two full election cycles AFTER we get our Left-Right act together — *and then* we’d still be a tiny minority of freshmen in Congress with an infinitesimal chance of fielding a presidential candidate in all 50 states. So basically (I hope I’m wrong) we’re talking 15 years minimum to purge D.C. Also, there are ALWAYS sell-outs, victims of threats or blackmail, spies, provocateurs, etc. It’s a dark, gloomy morning and setting this out hasn’t exactly made it less so, unfortunately. I’m just stumped.
@Lucifer,
Dear Nora,
You are right to be reluctant about the overemphazising of Lucifer in Western culture. See what Wikipedia has to say about:
“The term appears in the context of an oracle against a dead king of Babylon, who is addressed as הילל בן שחר (hêlêl ben šāḥar), rendered by the King James Version as “O Lucifer, son of the morning!” and by others as “morning star, son of the dawn”. The Latin word Lucifer, corresponding to Greek φωσφόρος, was used as a name for the morning star and thus appeared in the Vulgate translation of the Hebrew word הֵילֵל (helel) – meaning Venus as the brilliant, bright or shining one – in Isaiah 14:12, where the Septuagint Greek version uses, not φωσφόρος, but ἑωσφόρος. As a translation of the same Hebrew word the King James Version gave “Lucifer”, a name often understood as a reference to Satan. Modern translations of the same passage render the Hebrew word instead as “morning star”, “daystar”, “shining one” or “shining star”. In Revelation 22:16, Jesus is referred to as the morning star, but not as lucifer in Latin, nor as φωσφόρος in the original Greek text, which instead has ὁ ἀστὴρ ὁ λαμπρὸς ὁ πρωϊνός (ho astēr ho lampros ho prōinos), literally: the star the bright of the morning. In the Vulgate Latin text of 2 Peter 1:19 the word lucifer is used of the morning star in the phrase “until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts”, the corresponding Greek word being φωσφόρος”.
The Orthodox Church never believed in the fundamental wickedness of the man, in the augustinian “original sin”, in the necessity to “correct” his nature by violent means, through the agency of the representatives of the “City of God”.She never believed in the permanence of Evil, which is only a default, a mistake (the greek word for sin is hamartia “to miss the target”), a voluntary straying from the path which leads to God and the deification of the man through the Grace of God, Who in His infinite love calls all men to sit at His wedding Feast. The man erred when he listened to the spirit of Satan, and it is worth reminding that in the orthodox (and popular) worldview Satan is only a minor demon, a “little devil” who feeds and fattens on man’s delusions and paranoia. In Orthodoxy Satan never grew to the status of Lucifer, the fallen “prince” of the angels, as it did in the Western World, as a result of its pride and snobbery. He firmly remained the stupid one, at best the rheumathic “gentleman” of Dostoevsky, whose most cherished desire was to “give up all this superstellar life, all his ranks and honours, just to become in flesh and spirit some eighteen – stone merchant’s wife and light candles in church”. His favourite ground is not the battlefield, but the market. He does not conquer Man’s soul, but buys it. In the Rumanian folktales the devil is always outsmarted by a “prost” (simple) man and put to do good works. “A part of that eternal force which, wreaking evil, fosters only good” as Goethe’s Mephistopheles put it.
But I am sure that you wil not fail to notice the “coincidence” of the Orthodox view with the Native American one.
Andrew mentioned this:
“One possible way to look at this is to compare the election results of different regions from the 2012 parlimaentary election.”
Some stats here (visuals in french)
http://www.les-crises.fr/politique-ukrainienne-mai-2014/
Nat
HI Saker:
well that was a very worthwhile read. It’s interesting to read to thoughts of others with regard to Putin intervening
First of all- why specifically site Putin? As opposed to Russia? Or Russian gov? Is it because people have bought into the ‘cult of personality’ built up around Putin without consciously realizing it?
I don’t know
I also find the waiting for a saviour/hero concept floating around in that Putin should do this and Putin should do that talk
Another point of contention for me personally- because we shouldn’t wait for ‘heroes’ to ‘save us’- we should all be our own heroes and heroes to our family/community/etc
This is again a long term conditioning which elites have created to keep us dumb, down and dependent- Burn some new brain pathways is what I say :)
It seems that what NATO/US wants is for Putin to intervene- any excuse to justify all the lies, propaganda and manipulations that have been flooding the NATO media.
The people who suggest Putin intervene should answer these questions-
-Why should Putin/Russia do exactly that which is desired by NATO?
-Why do you want Putin to give NATO that which they desire?
I don’t know what should be done. Except for this- The eastern Ukrainians chose a path for themselves, that was bound to come with repercussions, it is their path to walk now
What has come or will come there way in the form of assistance- they know or will know soon enough
The rest of us can speculate and that’s about it
Regarding Syria- what a turnout!
The Syrians are a brave lot.
I had some stuff up at my place and someone mentioned an article at Voltaire on the turnout in Lebanon- It was huge, I was stunned to see the pics- Again, they are up at my blog. The NATO media was claiming 100’s were out, but it was very obviously tens of thousands. For two days they lined up
The lebanese military beat some of them with batons and still they lined up
The Syrians are most certainly an inspirational lot
Nora said…,
Now for Lucifer, which means Bearer of Light in Latin, for whatever that’s worth.
Hi Nora,
John Milton’s Paradise Lost is nothing but disrespect to God. Basically, it is a story of Greek/Romans gods Zeus.
Dante’s Inferno is from Quran. He gets the idea of 7 levels of Hell from Quran, along with 7 deadly sins.
Then he add two more levels, making a total of 9 levels. In level 8, he puts Prophet Mohammad (saws) and Imam Ali (as), the rightful heir of Mohammad, with some very foul language. And, at the bottom level in level 9, he puts Lucifer himself.
Dante gets the idea of 7 levels of Hells from his Muslim’s Philosophers friends, who preserved the work of Greek Philosophers. He puts them all in the level 1 of the Hell.
Best regards,
Mohamed.