It has been my recurrent effort on this blog to try to explain the likely reasons why Russia has not intervened so far in the war between Banderastan and Novorosiia. I notice that those who see signs of “betrayal” or “sellout” by Putin are long on accusations but very short on specifics. Unlike the excellent article which I recently posted as a “must read”, the folks who are busy accusing Putin of betrayal stop at the very short term: send guns, send men, impose a no-fly zone, strike this or that unit, etc. Fine. And then what? It is that “then what?” which our armchair patriots systematically shy away from. Besides “then what?” the other issue which these armchair strategists shy away from is “what if?”. What if the Bandera freaks really open up with everything they have, out of spite or out of retaliation, and what if they really flatten Kramatorsk, Slaviansk or an entire neighborhood of Donetsk? What if the dead at this point turn from tens or hundreds into the many thousands? Those who mistakenly believe that the junta forces have already used “massive artillery strikes” should look up the concept “огневой вал” which is often translated as “artillery barrage” which, while not incorrect, does not even begin to convey the meaning that it has in Russian military doctrine. Rather than to give figures, just take a look at these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7Zslwq4dxk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAtQq5tAxs0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIpW7BuaPZ4 (shows Ukrainian training)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UNsqONPtGo (shows various systems)
My point is this: the Ukrainians have the systems needed to *really* flatten a town and they are trained to do so. So what if they do that? Then what?
Of course, Russia has the means to rapidly destroy the Ukrainian artillery units in the Donbass, but that would mark yet another escalation of the conflict. Then what?
Or what if the US orders Poroshenko to “request” the protection of NATO? And what if NATO does something really dumb like the initial deployment of the 82nd Airborne to Saudi Arabia as part of Desert Shield? Why do I call “Desert Shield” really dumb? Because unbeknown to the American public, the 82nd AB was put into a very dangerous situation: this light infantry force was deployed as a “tripwire” force meaning that if the Iraqis crossed into the KSA they would have to engage the 82nd and that meant attacking the USA. Brilliant? Hardly. The 82nd is a light infantry force which has zero change against the large Iraqi tank formations. The *hope* on the US side was that US airpower would be enough to stop the Iraqis. And it was just that – hope. Years later, I think it was Dick Cheney who was asked by a reporter what would have happened if US airpower would not have been enough to deter Saddam and if the 82nd had been butchered. You know what he replied? “We would have had no other option to to use our nuclear weapons”. So finally the truth came out: the White House was ready to take the risk sacrifice the 82nd AB and it was “hoping” that the US would not have to use nukes. I don’t know about you, but seeing Imperial leaders “hoping” not to use nukes really scares me.
So what if Obama (whose Administration must have an average IQ lower then George Bush Senior one’s by at least 20 points!) puts down a “tripwire” force along the Dniper and what if the Ukrainians organize combat operation or even military strikes from behind this tripwire force? Then what?
One more example? Sure!
It is not unreasonable to suspect that maybe 15%-20% of the folks living in the Donbass/Novorossia region are not pro-Russian at all and that they support the junta. This is a big area with, if I recall correctly, something in the range of 7 million people living in the Donetsk-Lugansk region, so even 10% of 7 million is still 700’000 people supporting Kiev. From these 700’000 let’s take on 10% capable of fighting (70’000) and let us assume that only 1/4 of them would be actually willing to seriously fight. That is still 17’500 men willing to fight in just two region of a much bigger south-eastern Ukraine. That is way more than the IRA ever had in its ranks. That is even more than Hezbollah has today!
Speaking of the IRA – remember how the Brits deployed in Northern Ireland to officially restore peace and security? (If not, see the “Operation Banner” entry on Wikipedia for a quick refresher). That also seemed like a no brainer at that time. It turned into a prolonged nightmare.
I could multiply such examples ad nauseam but you get my point: unlike some of our wannabe strategists, Putin and his Russian Security Council members have to consider the full-spectrum of possible “what ifs” and “then whats” before taking a decision to intervene. And I haste to add that a covert intervention is dangerous too: if, so far, Kiev has failed to capture a single Russian “agent” or “operator” this does not mean that this might not happen and that would be a political disaster for Russia. And if you think that the SBU could not catch itself in broad daylight you are right – except that in this case the Ukrainians would just be the arm of the US CIA/NSA who, you can be sure of that, are the one using all their formidable means to locate any Russian covert activity in the Ukraine.
I won’t even address the comments of some lunatics who are seriously suggesting that Russian should nuke London or any other such stupidities. I conclusion I will just say this: like it or not, there is a consensus in Russia right now that a direct intervention would be a huge mistake. As for covert aid, we can only speculate about it, but I do notice that the Novorossiia Defense Forces seem to regularly “find” “abandoned” weapons just of the type which they need most. As to those who constantly demand a Russian intervention in the Donbass I will say this: unless you can support your calls for intervention with all the appropriate “what ifs” and “then whats” – don’t bother posting them here as you are only making yourself look amateurish and irresponsible. If you are such a hero – grab a gun and go fight yourself, but don’t tell others when/how they should die.
The Saker
вот так said…
FEMEN participated in the Odessa massacre.
Nothing new as can be seen in this blog article,
http://www.les-crises.fr/caroline-fourest-les-femen-ne-sont-pas-nazies-ah-bon/
Nat
An analysis of the Luhansk bombing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzdTYHC67sM
CS
Dear Nora,
“They’ve really got us bc our electoral choices… really aren’t, they just play to the ginned-up differences between us. On substantive issues they’re pretty much all for the same thing, Ukraine being the latest case in point, Social Security coming up next, etc.”
After the episode of Monika Lewinsky, Bill Clinton gathered all his team and announced the bombing of Slav. You should have seen the body language of Al Gore. The poor man.
I am not sure if I still have forgiven Ralph Nader, a Lebanese descendant. He ran as an Independent Candidate in 2000, taking away much needed votes from Al Gore. However, Ralph was right and still is right till today, as you mentioned above, “On substantive issues they’re pretty much all for the same thing,…”
Best regards,
Mohamed.
wizoz
05 June, 2014 10:59
referring to Lucifer…
Sort of related to my comment on the OTO
Something my husband has pointed out to me and I have given further thought to
We are supposed to ‘believe’ that Lucifer is evil-
Yet….Lucifer the light/knowledge bearer can’t be evil when he brings the light and the knowledge
So are we supposed to believe that knowledge and enlightenment is ‘evil’
Then we have “God” being the only one killing/smiting everyone.
And encouraging the people to kill one another
Bringing that up to today:
This whole scenario makes me think of the way propaganda is used to demonize the person/nation who is actually being wronged.
Like the US blaming Russia for the situation in Ukraine
When the hand of NATO/US is the destabilizing force
What’s up with that?
It stinks of mind control, transference and staying child like and dependent… not good
As I said in another thread, the easiest strategy would be to just assasinate the top five nazi leaders and the coup-gov honchos. followed by a communication saying “Whoever takes the job, will suffer the same fate”.
That would end the whole thing within a single day.
WizOz said…
“But I am sure that you will not fail to notice the “coincidence” of the Orthodox view with the Native American one.”
I don’t think that Natives believe in the “Original Sin”. Why would Merciful and Compassionate God punish human being from Adam to Jesus for thousands years for someone else sins.
And, from Jesus till the Judgement Day, the same Merciful and Compassionate God will keep on punishing those people who don’t accept Jesus being their Savior for someone else sins.
Even those who accept Jesus being their Savior, if they are not from Orthodox, then they are damned in Hell too.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
Nora said….,
“And thank you re: the power of the Power of Whisper. I don’t think it’s enough though.”
Dear Nora,
According to brother Saker Blog, and I quote Roger Waters:
“Each small candle lights a corner of the dark”
Best regards,
Mohamed.
Nora said…,
“You just blew me away about the Goethe though …. I was always so frightened of the Devil that I guess I was incapable of viewing him as a construct or literary device. Now I’ve *got* to go back and re-read it!”
Haha, you need to get away from Greek/Roman concept of Zeus gods, and get back to Semite Jesus (as).
Where you think that Anglo-Zionists comes from? From Lucifer, from Worship of The Devil, from Black Masses.
People think there is no chance to get into Heaven what they might do, then they might as well serve the Devil. All those aristocracies committed in the Name of The Devil.
It is the control of Jews on the Anglo-Zionists.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
Mohamed and WizOz,
This material about Lucifer is absolutely fascinating! We poor, poor, ignorant Westerners just haven’t a clue, and kept building error upon error upon error. I am truly astounded at how far astray we’ve gotten — even the best of intentions don’t matter if you’re building on a faulty foundation. It’s almost funny, too (in a weird sort of way), because I’ve spent a lot of my life figuring that a lot of the Bible somehow got lost in translation — but I honestly thought thought it was Romans, early on to avoid the charge of deicide and then later at the behest of Constantine trying to establish hegemony.
I have SO much learning to do!
Reinforcing it, although I think this is as much a product of the particularly toxic combination of a repressed society run by a very isolated and reactionary group of religious, there is this horror: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/06/03/bodies-of-800-babies-long-dead-found-in-septic-tank-at-former-irish-home-for-unwed-mothers/?tid=sm_fb Now Native American children were equal-opportunity brutalized in those damned schools, mostly Catholic in Canada but secular and Protestant as well as Catholic here. And I’m old enough to remember the hideous stigma on girls “who went wrong” (and the too-often-fatal back-alley abortions that often resulted), so I can kind-of get the Magdalen Laundries… up to a point but certainly nowhere near a lifetime of slavery! Otoh, this just defies credulity, and the heart, she breaks. But how could ANYONE with ANY faith at all, however erroneous, commit these sins? I’ll tell you, I just know I’m going to gag, or worse, the next time I hear an Irish cleric inveigh about “the sanctity of life” ! I shouldn’t tar ’em all with the same brush, of course, it was just one house of one order of nuns, but still… I cannot even imagine any Orthodox or Native American group being the least bit capable of this kind of horror at all, let alone on this scale.
Penny,
YES!!! That Syrian turnout, and the results, are truly inspirational. A lesson to all.
Nora said….,
“So basically (I hope I’m wrong) we’re talking 15 years minimum to purge D.C.”
Dearest Nora,
Americans are not dumb, they like everyone are way above their heads in debts.
Before, anything good happens we need to get rid of NRA and the concept of Killing. Unfortunately, there has to be some more deaths before people wake up.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
P.S. I am not sure, you did say somewhere that you are a gun owner. So, was my wife’s father (God rest his soul in peace), but he used to keep his hunting guns half dismantled in the house and the bullets hidden safely somewhere in the shed.
Another good (and lengthy) explanation of why Russia doesn’t foolishly rush into Ukraine:
http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com
Telling headline in Pravda-on-the-Potomac this morning (Washington Post, buried on A10):
“Ukrainian forces abandon two outposts after battle”
———————-
“Retreats in east come just days before inauguration of new president”
It looks like even in the belly of the beast they are beginning to recognize defeat.
Mohamed,
I remember thinking that at the time re: Clinton. Never did like Perot but I was convinced at the time that if you just pressed either Clinton or Bush 41 slightly, they’d both sell their mother. And I don’t blame Nader for Dubya — he turned into too much of a narcissist for me to be comfortable voting for him but Gore lost all my respect for caving the way he did re: Florida. I figure someone had something B I G on him and used it and the rest, as they say, (choke) is history. Obama may be being threatened or blackmailed also, of course, but he’s as amoral as Clinton, and equally narcissistic also.
Part of the problem is, running for office and functioning well in office, regardless of the office, involve two radically different skill sets. Elizabeth Warren and Dwight Eisenhower are the only two examples I can think of who manage/managed to be good at both. sigh.
A (MUCH) shorter campaign season might help, but only if we somehow get Citizens United overturned (ha ha ha).
Anonymous 05 June, 2014 09:47
Is no Russian TV available in East Ukraine anymore?? Do people have cable or is it broadcast?
Something the Russian government could sponsor: Put some powerful TV transmitters near the border. Get some materials printed, make some CDs/ DVDs. set up a powerful radio station, with excellent discussions and background information a la Crosstalk.
Call it ´Radio Really Free Europe´!
Set up well updated websites with good, lightly moderated forums. Find a translator to put Sakers relevant materials on a website in Ukrainian/ Russian. Use articles of ´famous´ people. Let the people speak up!
In Holland during WWII many underground resistance movements produced small wwekly newspapers to keep hopes up and inform the population
Penny said….,
“Bringing that up to today:
This whole scenario makes me think of the way propaganda is used to demonize the person/nation who is actually being wronged.
Like the US blaming Russia for the situation in Ukraine
When the hand of NATO/US is the destabilizing force
What’s up with that?
It stinks of mind control, transference and staying child like and dependent… not good”
Very well said dearest Penny, my regards to your husband.
Yes, the mind control by the Anglo-Zionists of the “sheep”, or should I say the “goats”.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
Mohamed,
Yes, we have guns. Unloaded, locked and safely stashed, with ammo hidden elsewhere. Mr. Nora used to hunt and trap until, as he says, he outgrew it. But he always gave his prey a fighting chance: no tree-stands, salt-licks and all that. He’s a good shot, I’m so-so a best (poor vision and osteoporosis don’t help). We do have groundhogs though, and they are incredibly destructive critters with no known predators; they’ve eaten our well-pump wires and keep trying to undermine both the barn foundations and another shed. Since we’ve got cats, we can’t trap them, so guns are the only option. I can always tell by the look on his face whether he killed one, and he prays over each one he kills. Used to be proudly NRA, until it went from an educational organization to a marketing one, ginning up sales by making everyone terrified of blacks and The Guvmint. Against whom, btw, I don’t care how much weaponry you’ve got, you still stand approximately the same chance as those people in their hospital beds the other day.
Me, I pray over roadkill and tell bugs I squish in the garden that I’m sorry I have to do it. (Out of the mouths of babes: a six-year-old Caribbean girl was telling me one time how some friends of hers were squishing pill-bugs and how much it bothered her, because “They’re part of God, too.” I’d never thought of that — and have never forgotten it, either.
The western countries, led by the US, seem to have no compunctions about causing misery and death for other people who are just pawns in their games. Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan are just the most recent adventures whereby ordinary people are killed, impoverished and turned into penniless refugees. It’s as inhuman as it can get. If they can’t annex Ukraine then they’d probably be happy to see an ongoing state of chaos there so as to tie down the Russians. It has nothing to do with what’s good for the Ukrainians, of course. So far the Kiev regime seems to be relying more on things like airpower which requires a smaller number of better trained personnel. That might mean that they can’t trust the average person under their control to follow orders. Apart from the flamboyant and noisy nationalist groups of the western areas whose bark seems louder than their bite, the masses might be reluctant to become cannon fodder for some murky group of people. At least, so far; there’s probably plenty of people scheming on how to change all that.
@Mohamed
Concerning Dante and his Divine Comedy.
Dante puts ancient and islamic philosophers in the first circle of Hell, where however there is no punishment, but only a strong longing for God, without hope of seeing Him until the End of Time.
The reason for this is that all of these people, however rightful (they are called the “great spirits – spiriti magni”) did not receive the Baptism – with them, this circle (Limbo) hosts the babies who died before receiving the Sacrament.
There is nothing but admiration for the islamic philosophers Averroe` (Ibn Rushd) and Avicenna (Ibn Sina), as well as for Saladino (Salah ad-Din) – as well as for the great philosophers and poets of antiquity.
However Dante believed that Islam was an heresy of Christendom, as did many of his contemporaries. Therefore Mohammed and Ali punished alongside the people who sowed discord.
As for the islamic sources of the Divine Comedy, it seems quite established that Dante knew al-Kitaab al-Mi`raj, which tells the vision (or according to some, the journey) of Mohammed to Jerusalem and to Heaven.
I have not found convincing evidence, however, that he knew either the Quran or other alleged sources of inspiration, like ar-Risaalat al-Ghufraan.
Best,
astabada
Two neglected reasons for no direct Russian intervention:
1. Russia, like Germany, will always have a deep psychological complex due to a heavy moral burden from the past: invasion of a couple of neighbors before, in and after world war(s). Even if death toll was much smaller compared to Germany, the scars are more recent: Hungary (1956), Czechoslovakia (1968) and Transdniester (1992). Poland (1981) could be mentioned too, as the attack to Warsaw by eastern block paratroopers was canceled at the moment of planes departure thanks to Jaruzelski’s coup. In the case of Afghanistan (1979), Chechnya (1994) and especially Georgia (2008), commitment to a mutual treatise or self-defense arguments can be brought, but they still caused huge and lasting damage to Russia’s outside look. Coincidence or not, I just saw US president’s speech at West Point, where he underlined and condemned Russia’s past wrongdoings against its European neighbors. Even if US is not quite in the right position to make moral judgements, it’s better for Russia to be forewarned about the risk of boosting resentments which have already been strongly cultivated there by (western) media trusts, along with a crave for “revenge”. Fortunately, former orthodox slavs (Czech and Slovak) recently refused military bases on their land, but others happily guest them and what’s more, their leaders push for “tough action” (like obedient dogs prompted to growl at an enemy).
2. The (orthodox) Christian rule is:
Revenge yourself and YOU will be the one who’s punishing the enemy,
Turn the other cheek and GOD will perform the punishment.
Indeed, if you don’t reply to an agression, GOD himself is the agressed one, and His revenge is much more dreadful. As Jesus said: “live by the sword, die by the sword”. One thing is for sure: if Russian leader continues to follow the counsel of his spiritual father (starets), he will win.
P.S. Funny, media seems to quit calling the separatists “terr’ists” (i.e. some insects to be crushed, not talked to), they became “insurgents”, i.e. well-organized military group to be seriously taken into account and dealt with. It means they already won a critical part of the war and gained a deserved respect by their bravery, and also that negociations could come sooner than expected.
Visitor
Nora said….,
“This material about Lucifer is absolutely fascinating! We poor, poor, ignorant Westerners just haven’t a clue, and kept building error upon error upon error. I am truly astounded at how far astray we’ve gotten — even the best of intentions don’t matter if you’re building on a faulty foundation. It’s almost funny, too (in a weird sort of way), because I’ve spent a lot of my life figuring that a lot of the Bible somehow got lost in translation”
Dear Nora,
Regarding Lucifer and Virgin (no virgin is mentioned) in Isaiah. According to my Jewish Friend since TaNaKh is the Jewish Scripture therefore no one has a right from other faiths (especially Christianity) to twist their scripture for their own purposes.
According to him the prophesies in Isaiah has to do with King of Babylon and they all have come true before the birth of Jesus. A young maid gives birth to a child, who eventually kills the King of Babylon. Therefore, the reference of “Morning Star” is for King of Babylon and no one else.
In Judaism, there is an Angel, who is in good standing with God and whose job is to tempt mankind with the approval of God. His job title is satan (noun: adversary) to mankind. Basically, this Angel goes on his job on God’s bidding.
If you remember that with Job, Ha-Satan was there too. “Ha” in Hebrew is “al” or “el” in Arabic, and it is the definite article “the”.
Thus:
Ha-Satan = The Adversary.
Ha-Shem = The Name.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
The reason why Russia wouldn’t ‘enforce a no fly zone over Novorussiya is because that will bring NATO warjets into Kiev. Is that what the anonymous person thinks a god idea?
@ Mohamed.05 June, 2014 13:02
Extremely off topic….Sorry, but, with all due respect, because we have many viewpoints, mine agnostic, but this sounds to me like blasphemy!
All (?) religions have their blind spots, but the believers strive for wisdom and truth. Older religions, like the Nordic, Roman or Greek, or foreign religions, like Hinduism, Buddhism, Vodou, or Animists might seem very different, but are just different viewpoints (hint: ´the Gods´ en Goddesses are angels or demons).
´Where you think that Anglo-Zionists comes from? From Lucifer, from Worship of The Devil, from Black Masses.´
If you mean by ´devil´: ´the Mammon´, extreme greed and hubris, like:´I´m doing Gods work´ (Goldman Sachs CEO Blankfein), I´m OK with it. But black masses? Where can I attend one?
´Even those who accept Jesus being their Savior, if they are not from Orthodox, then they are damned in Hell too.´
So You say that even most good people, much better people than me, all go to hell?
That makes me not even wanting to go to heaven; I´ll go where my friends are, and have a party or even a revolution in Hell!
(The theological dillemma behind my rant is: how can there be any goodness in hell?- because then it is no hell anymore)
astabada said…,
“There is nothing but admiration for the islamic philosophers Averroe` (Ibn Rushd) and Avicenna (Ibn Sina), as well as for Saladino (Salah ad-Din) – as well as for the great philosophers and poets of antiquity.
…………….
have not found convincing evidence, however, that he knew either the Quran or other alleged sources of inspiration, like ar-Risaalat al-Ghufraan.”
Dear astabada,
You are absolutely right about Dante’s admiration for his Islamic philosophers friends. And, I am pretty sure that he got the idea of 7 levels of Hell from these friends.
“However Dante believed that Islam was an heresy of Christendom, as did many of his contemporaries. Therefore Mohammed and Ali punished alongside the people who sowed discord.”
Again, no doubt what Christianity thinks about Islam. But the type of language he used, show pure hatred and nothing else. Same hatred and language is shown by Rabbinic Talmud in regards to Jesus and Mother Marry.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
BobS said…
“(The theological dilemma behind my rant is: how can there be any goodness in hell?- because then it is no hell anymore)”
Couldn’t agree more! ~:)
Best regards,
Mohamed.
Dear astabada,
Dante and his Islamic philosophers friends must had lots of discussions on Islam, and Islamic view of Heaven and Hell.
I wonder, why he choose Hell for his topic rather than Heaven. Must have had to do with his fanaticism with Lucifer.
In Islam, God is Unconditional Mercy and Eternal Mercy, and therefore Heaven has 8 levels, one more level than Hell. And, on Judgement Day more people will go to Heaven than to Hell.
Slowly, slowly the people of the Hell will climb up to the Heaven and one day the Hell will be destroyed.
One day, after long, long eternity the Heaven will perish too!
Best regards,
Mohamed.
I found it interesting…
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-04/putin-hillary-it%E2%80%99s-better-not-argue-women
Sigh…
Beside the psyops the idiotic chatter about “the devil” doesn’t really improve the signal to noise ratio (you know who you are!)
hardcore,
Did your helpful comment make your day? I hope so.
You do know you can scroll right by comments and conversations that don’t interest you, right?
Mohamed,
Well, as far as your Jewish friend is concerned, he can have the Masoretic Text! It’s a big, big part of the reason Western Christianity got so off base. The Septuagint is far older, and authentic, while it’s the Masoretic that got “twisted for their own purposes”, though of course you won’t get real far telling him that!
Now that’s very interesting about Satan vs. Lucifer — we were always told they were just different names for The Devil. And Mr. Nora asked about Job last night after reading what you’d written. (I of course had to tell him I hadn’t a clue but would try to find out, but I haven’t had time to dig into it yet.)
This is all so INCREDIBLY fascinating! And to think, if I hadn’t come here, I still wouldn’t have a clue. That just sort of blows me away, for real.
@Constantine,
Why would have Constantine adopt Christianity in order to establish hegemony when he was already hegemon? The cult of the Roman Emperor was the sign of Roman hegemony for a long time and Christians were persecuted because they did not participate in the cult (in actual fact they did not bring sacrifices to the Emperor but they were praying for him and the Empire – keep in mind that the Jews were exempted from sacrificing to the emperor but they never incured any persecution for that).
@Well, as far as your Jewish friend is concerned, he can have the Masoretic Text!
Indeed our friend Mahomed is all to often off the rails when he tries to put us in our place.
@ Visitor: last time I checked, Czech and Slovak were catholics, not orthodox.
For the religiously confused bunch: islam is to orthodox christianity what protestanism is to catholicism.
@ Mohammed: you are selling some sort of luciferian Gnosticism, which is as we know the religion of the “enlightened” one-eyed one-worlder bunch. A “real” moslem would most probably lynch you for heresy.
Nora said…
“Well, as far as your Jewish friend is concerned, he can have the Masoretic Text! It’s a big, big part of the reason Western Christianity got so off base. The Septuagint is far older, and authentic, while it’s the Masoretic that got “twisted for their own purposes”, though of course you won’t get real far telling him that!”
Dearest Nora,
My friend is a Jew and believes in TaNaKh the real thingy. To Judaism there is no such thingy as Old Testament. They have their Original Scripture in their Original Hebrew Language. Jews despise for someone taking their Scripture called, “TaNaKh” and calling it something else.
They don’t have such thingy as Old Testaments and New Testament. For him there is no such thing as Septuagint vs Masoretic.
“Now that’s very interesting about Satan vs. Lucifer — we were always told they were just different names for The Devil.”
Satan is not a proper noun, it is a noun and it means, “adversary”. In both Judaism and Islam satan is an adversary of mankind.
In Judaism:
1. No Original Sin.
2. No fallen Angels.
3. No Devil.
4. No Snake(s) as Devil.
5. No Trinity.
6. No human beings can be God, as Creator cannot be Creation.
7. Any, many more.
In Judaism, there is an Angel, who is in good standing with God and whose job is to tempt mankind with the approval of God. His job title is satan (noun: adversary) to mankind. Basically, this Angel goes on his job on God’s bidding.
“And Mr. Nora asked about Job last night after reading what you’d written. (I of course had to tell him I hadn’t a clue but would try to find out, but I haven’t had time to dig into it yet.)”
Job 1: King James Version (KJV)
1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
WizOz Said…,
“@Well, as far as your Jewish friend is concerned, he can have the Masoretic Text!
Indeed our friend Mahomed is all to often off the rails when he tries to put us in our place.”
The Jews believe in TaNaKh the real thingy. To Judaism there is no such thingy as Old Testament. They have their Original Scripture in their Original Hebrew Language. Jews despise for someone taking their Scripture called, “TaNaKh” and calling it something else.
They don’t have such thingy as Old Testaments and New Testament. Therefore, they don’t have such thingy as Septuagint Text vs Masoretic Text.
Basically, the Christians have stolen the TaNaKh and turned into Septuagint Text vs Masoretic Text thingy.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
Dearest Nora,
Below is what my Jewish friend has written about satan:
“Similarly, Christian interpretation of the stories and events in Hebrew Scripture is primarily retrospective–reinterpreting Hebrew Scripture from the doctrinal Christian views they adopted and preached. This includes the Christian view of Satan as trickster and tempter and opposed to G-d. However, in Judaism, no being can oppose G-d in the manner ascribed to the Christian Satan. You are correct that, in Judaism, Ha-satan (the Adversary) is understood as merely one of G-d’s ministering angels with the task of acting as His prosecuting attorney before the Throne of Judgement, and for testing Man’s faith–but only where and when G-d directs him. He cannot act independently of G-d (see the Book of Job 1:12 and 2:6). No angel can.”
Best regards,
Mohamed.
Nora said…,
“The Septuagint is far older, and authentic, while it’s the Masoretic that got “twisted for their own purposes””
Dearest Nora,
Also, the Septuagint was twisted too. According to the myth, the 70 translators only translated The Torah (first five books) of the total TaNaKh. The rest of the TaNaKh was supposedly translated within 2 to 3 centuries, and some parts even didn’t.
To understand above, you have to take certain things into account:
1. The Status of the language at that time. The language at the time didn’t contain the short vowels and other grammar. Therefore, these 70 translator must have memorized the whole TaNaKh.
2. Hebrew was a dead language then. Only the Rabbinical knew the Hebrew language and knew the TaNaKh by heart.
3. There was not much paper available at that time. Not much ink, not many people who knew how to write.
4. Each of these Rabbinical must have known Hebrew language, known the TaNaKh by heart and must have also known very well and be fluent in Koine Greek.
5. Another myth or legend tells us that they were 72 translators instead of 70 (LXX) translators.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
Anonymous said…
“@ Mohammed: you are selling some sort of luciferian Gnosticism, which is as we know the religion of the “enlightened” one-eyed one-worlder bunch. A “real” moslem would most probably lynch you for heresy.”
Dear Friend,
Seems like you are confusing Dajjal with satan.
It further seems that you don’t know Islam very well neither the Holy Quran. The last chapter 114 of the Holy Quran, which describes satan.
114:1 Say, “I seek refuge in the Lord of mankind,
114:2 The Sovereign of mankind.
114:3 The God of mankind,
114:4 From the evil of the retreating whisperer –
114:5 Who whispers [evil] into the breasts of mankind –
114:6 From among the jinn and mankind.”
http://quran.com/114
Best regards,
Mohamed.
@They don’t have such thingy as Old Testaments and New Testament
If the Old and New Testaments are “thingies”, what is the Coran? A “thingummy”? Or a “thingumabob”? A “whatchamahoozy”? You name it.
Wonderful article glad I found you’re blog I agree with what you are saying I pray that Putin remains as is. If he for any reason enters Ukraine He will be treated as the new Hitler Ms Clintons words. I have to say Putin has earned this Canadians deep respect for his every move it must be very hard watching his people being slaughtered by those animals…
In all these one-sided Putin-must-stand-firm-and-intervene-militarily to save the Russians in Ukraine analyses and macho talks, that Putin has blinked and gives the impression of weakness to the West, there is no reasonable and balanced appraisal of what immediate reality Putin is facing. Yes, in fact, faced with the most Draconian economic reprisal from the West, (that these analysts never deal with) he is, in the short term, playing this complicated game from a position of real WEAKNESS. He has to and is, first and foremost. to worry about many millions of his own citizens and understands full well what a traumatic economic damage the West can impose (and his detractors don’t) which most certainly can destroy many years of his hard-earned economic progress. There has already been a flight of $200 billions from Russia even without some serious sanctions. It is really sad, that Putin’s detractors worry, very emotionally, about the 7 million ethnic Russians – who, by the way, should rise up en mass instead in these small numbers, in their own country Ukraine – than the 144 million Russians in Russia and not do more substantial analyses of what-ifs and then-whats of the consequences of his overt military confrontation in Ukraine. By the way, would not his direct intervention promote the position of some of the irredentist movements in his own Russian Federation to seek direct military help from abroad?