It is always tricky to try to get a sense of what is happening in a country by parsings its media as there is often a big disconnect between what the talking heads say and what most of the people really feel. And yet, this can a useful exercise in the following circumstances:
A) The media is pretty tightly controlled by the regime in power at which point is can be analyzed to see what kind of “consent manufacturing” or “opinion massaging” is being performed. For example, most wars are normally preceded by media vilification campaign against the other side. Thus, observing such a vilification campaign can be considered as an “indicator” or even “warning” of a possible military attack, especially is other indicators and warnings point to the same eventual outcome
B) The media is more or less independent from the regime, but primarily linked to the national elites and their agenda. Here again, because these elites, by definition, have power and access, they can use the media to put pressure on the formal leaders of the country. Think of the Israel Lobby and its use of the US media to promote the wars on Iraq, Iran and Syria.
C) Finally, the media can be more or less “in tune with” the general public and its concerns, hopes and ideas, at which point it can offer a good insight into what is going on.
Regardless of which of the models above applies to Russia (for what it is worth, I personally think that it is a mix of the three), it is, I strongly believe, very important to note the following fact: three of the most popular shows on Russian TV have increasingly become strident in their outrage over what is happening in the Ukraine, over the US’s hypocrisy and over the need to put a stop to the atrocities committed by the Ukrainian junta. These shows are:
- Sunday Evening with Vladimir Soloviev (Воскресный Вечер с Владимиром Соловьевым)
- Politics with Petr Tolstoi (Политика с Петром Толстым)
- News of the Week with Dmitri Kiselev (Вести Недели с Дмитрием Киселевым)
I think that it is worth saying a few words about these shows.
Sunday Evening with Vladimir Soloviev:
This show is hosted by a very famous personality, Vladimir Soloviev, who is a very interesting guy. Soloviev is a Jew, and he is not shy about reminding his audience about it, who was even elected as a member of the Presidium of the Russian Jewish Congress. He is also a Russian patriot who categorically denies that there is anti-Semitism in Russia, much less so state sponsored, and he is a very outspoken supporter of Putin and his policies. He is categorically opposed to the junta in Kiev and to Ukie neo-Nazism and he does not mince his words about them. He has several shows where in often invites very controversial personalities, including Zhirinovsky, which he very skillfully interviews. While Soloviev’s style is definitely “popular”, he is also very smart, quick to think on his feet, well read and outspoken to a degree few Russian journalists dare to me. His position on the Ukraine is simple: he as a Jew and as a Russian has zero tolerance for Ukie nationalism, neo-Nazism or Banderism. He is a determined and total enemy of the new regime.
Politics with Peter Tolstoi:
I would describe this show as a somewhat more sophisticated version of the previous one, possibly addressed at a more mature audience. The host, Petr Tolstoi, and his co-host, Alexander Gordon (another patriotic Russian Jew), are more soft spoken in their style, but they are also no less anti-junta and anti-Nazi than Soloviev. Their show regularly has guest from the Ukraine, including high visibility ones like Oleg Tsarev or representatives of the self-declared popular republics of Donetsk and Lugansk.
New of the Week with Dmitri Kiselev:
Kiselev is often see as the “voice of the Kremlin” which has recently appointed him to run the newly created official Russian media agency “Rossiia Segodnia” (which in English translates into “Russia Today” but which should not be confused with the RT TV Channel run by Margarita Simonian). Kiselev is a very outspoken critic of the West for which he is absolutely hated by the western media which accuses him of homophobia, anti-Semitism, propaganda, lies, etc. Unlike the two previous shows I mentioned, “News of the Week” is what is called an “author’s news show” in Russia, a mix of news and personal commentary. It airs on Sunday evenings.
The first thing which I noticed is that the two first shows which, in theory, are weekly shows have for a while no run special editions on a regular basis. For example, Soloviev’s “Sunday Evening” show can now regularly be seen on week days, sometimes several times in the same week, besides its normal Sunday airtime. Clearly these shows are in a full overdrive mode.
Second, it is hard to convey here the level of absolute rage, disgust and frustration of most of the hosts and guests about the situation in the Ukraine. Furthermore, those few representatives of the pro-US Russian “liberal” non-system opposition (too small get make it to the Duma) or the representatives of Yanukovich’s “Party of Regions” who dare to show up often end up being literally mobbed, if not by the hosts, then by the other guests. As for the hosts, they politely but mercilessly rip apart all the arguments of these two categories of guests. Pro-junta guests from the Ukraine, they don’t dare show up on these shows anymore (they tried in the past, and got mercilessly destroyed each time). Kiselevs’ show being more of a newscast, he does feature statements or interviews made by pro-US or pro-junta people, but they are always followed by a blunt rebuttal of their arguments and a passionate denunciation of their hypocrisy.
I took these three examples because of their high visibility but this also applies to the rest of the Russian TV media. Even those channels (like Ren-TV) or journalists (like Tatiana Mitkova) who used to be very “democratic” and “liberal” have radically changed their tune. Now they are almost on the frontline of the anti-junta and generally anti-western journalism in Russia. Oh sure, some liberal leftovers from the past (like that ugly old fart Pozner) still have their shows on air, and some TV (Dozhd) or radio (Ekho Moskvy) stations still parrot the “Psaki” narrative, but they are clearly struggling to survive and their audience is becoming smaller and smaller.
So what does that all mean for Putin?
Contrary to some of the “armchair strategist” who post comments here about Putin of selling out, being a coward or a hypocrite, something in the range of 80% of Russians support him and his handling of the events in the Ukraine. So far, his personal position and authority are as rock solid as ever. However, watching the amazing evolution of the Russian TV over the past few months, I come to one of three possible conclusions:
1) If hypothesis A above is correct, then the Kremlin is engaged in a massive PR campaign to prepare the Russian public for a military intervention in the Ukraine.
2) If hypothesis B above is correct, then there is a very influential segment of the Russian elites which is engaged in a campaign to force the Kremlin to militarily intervene in the Ukraine.
3) If hypothesis C above is correct, then there is such a groundswell of outrage and disgust in the Russian public opinion that the Kremlin will have no other choice but to militarily intervene to stop the terror operations of the junta.
As I said above, my personal feeling that the reality of Russian media today is a mix of A+B+C, in which case there is a gradual coalescing of anger and determination taking place on all levels of the Russian society which will eventually result in a Russian military intervention against the Ukrainian death squads in Novorossia.
All this is to make the following point: when I wrote yesterday that the “crazies”, as I called them might, well get what they want (a Russian military intervention) – I really meant it. I still think that this would be very bad for Russia, the Ukraine and Europe, but that does not mean that I am oblivious to the fact that it might happen, very soon in fact.
My sense is that Poroshenko or, more accurately his puppet-masters in Washington, have just a few days left to stop the so-called “anti terrorist operation”. From the recent meeting in France, I get mixed messages. Merkel and Hollande probably would prefer that this insanity stop now. But Obama and his puppet-masters? Simply put, and no matter how hard Putin might try, there are provocations which the Kremlin simply cannot ignore.
Today I heard that there are already 12’000 refugees just in the Rostov-on-the-Don area. That means that the real numbers are way higher. Furthermore, the Ukie Air Force is now using cluster munitions and deliberate attacks on local towns and villages which are pretty much getting flattened or, at leas, burned to the ground. And I did get a confirmation that the Ukrainian death squads have executed wounded combatants in a hospital near Kramatorsk. In the meantime, Putin has informally met with Poroshenko in France, the (completely incompetent) Russian ambassador to Kiev has returned from his “consultations” in Moscow and he will attend the inauguration of Poroshenko. While I fully understand what the Kremlin is doing (denying the US the kind of “enemy” it wants) and while I fully support that goal, I am also aware that this policy cannot be sustained much longer and that something will have to happen soon, very soon. Right now, my personal hunch, my guesstimate, is that the US will over-rule the EU and that Poroshenko will not only continue, but even escalate the junta’s terror operations in the east and southeast. If that is indeed what happens, Russia will intervene, there is, alas, no doubt in my mind at all. How?
What a Russian military intervention might look like
Russia might pretend try to get a UNSC resolution supporting a peacemaking operation of the CSTO in the Ukraine, if only just to make sure that all legal options have been exhausted. Then I would expect to see a no-fly zone declared over the Donetsk and Lugansk regions, combined with the opening, by force if needed (it will), of humanitarian corridors towards these regions. At this point I expect the Ukie junta to fold and run, but if some units do not, they will be destroyed. The purely military phase of this intervention will take no more than 24 hours and will more or less stop at the administrative border between the Lugansk and Donetsk regions and the Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk and Zaporozhie regions. If directly threatened, of course, Russian forces could strike deeper inside the rest of the Ukraine, targeting missile/artillery positions or enemy airpower (in the air or on the ground). At this point I would expect some EU leader to do what Sakozy did in 08.08.08 and travel to Moscow to agree to a ceasefire which Moscow would accept. Once the situation in the Donbass is more or less stabilized, I would expect Russia to pull out most of Russian forces, probably “forgetting a few “goodies” here and there, not unlike what happened in South Ossetia. Finally, and especially if the EU continues to allow the US to imposed its insane and counter-productive foreign policy (or what passes for it) on Europe, I would expect Russia to recognize the People’s Republic of Novorossia and provide it with security guarantees (again, the model of Ossetia and Abkhazia applies).
Again, I would prefer if a solution could be found without an overt Russian military intervention, but obviously that does not depend on me. The Americans are stuck, they have failed at everything, and they have no other choice than to engage in a idiotic media campaign to convince the world that “Putin has blinked” and that “Obama is a tough President”. This is quite ridiculous, of course, as this is not about a John Wayne style “blinking exercise” but about the future of the European continent. But the European politicians are so corrupt, so spineless, so mediocre and so incompetent (remember how Boris Johnson, Mayor of London called some of them “great supine protoplasmic invertebrate jellies”?) that they will probably let the Americans decide the future or Europe for them.
I hope that I am wrong, but chances are that a Russian military intervention will happen in the not too distant future.
The Saker
Putin is starting to look pathetic. The trip to Normandy – where Americans always proclaim that it was them who won WWII – was ridiculuos. Any Russian President should customarily boycott the event, unless afforded a speech ( where he could highlight Nazi marches in today’s Baltics and Ukraine, apparently condoned by the USA).
I supported Putin 24/7 during all these years. Starting to re-evaluate it. He had all the momentum in the world after Crimea. Now squandered.
On May 29th Alexander Dugin wrote that a change of mind has occurred in the Kremlin and hinted that a Russian intervention will start in 10 days. Yesterday he said that he expects the “Donbass problem” to be solved over the course of next week. He may be wrong. He wants an intervention and humans have a tendency to overestimate the likelihood of the outcomes they want. If a decision really has been made, why would anyone blab to Dugin about it?
It’s not impossible though. Remember that time many weeks ago when troops started moving, but were then called off and an exercise was declared? Putin was probably hesitating then. He may come to hesitate again. And then do it. Or not.
I believe your analysis is spot on. I do not believe, however, that Putin’s upcoming military intervention will play into the hands of the west (even if western politicians think that is what will happen), nor despite most learned opinions a couple of weeks ago. Putin has had to wait until more of the atrocities and murder of the evil puppet-master’s puppet regime came into the light of day. I think it is obvious each day to more and more people of the world that Putin has taken the high road consistently since this mess started. Anyone who actually looks for truth realises the Ukrainian people are expendable and the west and their oligarch buddies are completely inhuman. The fact that the high road also leads to war is sad but necessary. Any other course will diminish the power that Putin now wields on behalf of goodness. He bears such a tremendous responsibility and deserves all our prayers and support.
I think Putin’s strategy is very smart. He is trying to do everything he could not to intervene and letting the Ukraine government to do the stupid things. So in case he does intervene, he will have the most of the support from home and sympathy from Europeans. If he is lucky and plays right, this could be the end of NATO.
I think there are probably two major reasons that He doesn’t want and shouldn’t to intervene.
1, Economic burden of owning the Ukraine is too big.
2, Alienating Germany and other European.
If military intervention is to inevitable, he should wait until enough European public feel disgust by what Ukraine government’s behavior and enough outrage in eastern Ukraine at their Kiev government.
As for the US government, owning the Kiev government is too big economic and political liability, the only way out for them is to get Russia involved.
so what is he saying to Obama?
Showdown in Ukraine – 7 dead – Page 119 – David Icke’s Official Forums
My sentiment on looking at Russian language satellite TV via Hotbird is that Russian news media (as opposed to the current affairs prgrammes you quote) changed a gear after 21 February. It went into war mode. RTR had a regular round up on the Ukranian crisis which was wholly focused on creating an aggressive mood. The Ukranians did give them ammunition, of course but there were things that went the other way that RTR ignored. I think RTR did this on instructions from some faction in the Kremlin. Let us not think that the Russian government thinks as one about the Ukranian issue (Medvedev made a strong return for a while). However, when in Russia I live in the provinces, far from Moscow. I am the only non FSU foreigner my monoglot Russian friends have ever met. They are mostly from families that had higher social rank in the USSR (former town clerk for community of 50k people now works as jobbing builder for example). They are dying for a fight. Like the Grannies in Donetsk, they seen to think that a fight will give them the USSR back. They make A satelite and chaos (Sputnik i Pogrom) look very liberal. Most vote communist. The news feed for the younger ones is SaveDonbass and Russkaya Pravda. I think they represent most of Russias underemployed and disappointed. Those in good jobs with a future ahead do not want conflict in Ukraine.
Taking over the D & L oblasts in their entirety is foolish. The countryside is Ukranian. Donetsk and the surrounding cities are half Ukranian. Only in Lugansk and the surrounding cities is there a large preponderance of Great Russians. Can there be a population exchange between D & L? At least of the Grannies and the underemployed retired officers? It’s a thought experiment not a recommendation.
Sadly…events seem to be heading in the direction of Russian intervention. When Right Sector and National Guard thugs are rounding up male citizens between 18 and 40 — and shooting wounded in hospital — then the rubicon has been crossed. (Bet those guys rounded-up wish they’d joined Strelkov, rather than waiting around for Junta to find them…). That said — it’s all very VERY sad. The blood is on Obama, Nuland, EU and Anglo-Zionist Neo-Con filth. AGS
I think that Putin is currently using his black-belt judo skill to feint in order th draw the Anglo/US/NATO/CIA/GCHQ (AUNCG) elements into action. After this happens, Russian forces will be morally justified in a warlike reply.
Let us hope that sober minds prevail in the West!
Solntseff
(living in Canada)
Crossvader, Russia is facing a big recession. Putin has more substantial issues to deal with than romantic nationalists in another country. He is the President of the Russian Federation not the Fuhrer of the Great Russian folk. Stopping Ukraine taking the Russian economy even further down is the biggest concern. The second fastest growing big economy right now is the UK, not a developing country and its manufacturing led(China’s still ahead). The climate has changed. Russia is at full employment and full capacity. What’s left of its technical base is still in the 1970’s. Productivity has to go up. The means to acheive this is foreign investment. Putin is damned if he doesn’t (mount a useless symbolic invasion of Lugansk) and damned if he does. It’s the price of annexing Crimea. There’s always a price.
@SoarIntoTheSky
BS psyops fail!
It is the EU that has backed itself in poorly planned Cluster-f-ck in Ukraine. Thats why Nuland had to intervene to try to clean it up, but her incompetence made it worse.
Russia holds all the cards. All Russia has to do is WAIT and the Junta and Willy Wonka PARASHencho will implode.
If actual military intervention is necessary all he has to is unfetter the covert operation and ramp it up an order of magnitude, then lie and deny shamelessly about it’s existence (like his counterparts in the Anglo-Saxon world always do). At the same time Putin take credit for Kievan defeats to placate his own electorate (while still denying any involvement to Western Propaganda outlets) – Exactly the way the neocon trotskites in the West do it.
Your economic argument is false. Due to Russia’s well developed energy sector and ability to export greater and greater amounts of fuel as well as collateralize these sales, they dont need Western investment as other economies.
Russia can have it’s cake and eat it too, and there’s nothing that the Eurofacists in Brussels and bunglers at the US State Dept. can do about it.
An overt attack is not necessary for Russia to meet it’s humanitarian and security objectives, a covert operation offers them far greater freedom to achieve the same as well allowing them to carry out extra-judicial eliminations of the forces leading, arming and funding the Ukrainian death squads (something a regular army can not do due to international conventions).
Russia/Putin has laid all the groundwork to implement a major covert intervention: wide open supply corridors due to neutralized border posts, Refugee evacuations and accomodation to show the world the barbarity of the EU and their Junta henchmen. Transfers of sophisticated AA, Anti-tank and anti-artillery into the hands of the Donbass liberation forces. In addition, he’s instructed Russian Intelligence and legal bodies to gather evidence of war-crimes and atrocities to be used against those players in the West who think that they are impervious. He’s put all the pieces in place: All he needs to do is scale it up.
If that leads to escalation by the autocrats in Brussels in the form of direct intervention, well then Russia can take appropriate overt action. But why jump the gun now?
Putin is sending out confusing signals imho.
Putin and Poroshenko also agreed that there is “no alternative” to “peaceful political means” to resolve the conflict in Ukraine. Speaking at a press-conference later on Friday, Vladimir Putin told journalists that he welcomes Poroshenko’s “positive thinking” on resolving the Ukrainian crisis and his position that the bloodshed “should be immediately stopped.” He, however, did not give any details of the plan, saying that journalists should ask Poroshenko himself if they want to know more.
and here having a joke with Obama?
Elysee Rencontre entre Barack Obama et Vladimir Poutine en marge du déjeuner des Chefs d’Etat #DDay70 4h ago • Share
@EVERTYBODY:
Putin has just made a cautiously optimistic statement about Poroshenko. He said that Poroshenko wanted to stop all combat operations in the East and that he had a plan to do so. He said that Poroshenko has shared this plan with Putin but that it would be for Poroshenko to make it public. Still, Putin cautioned everybody by saying that it is one thing to present a plan in France, and quite another to present it in Kiev . He concluded by saying that if such a peace plan was implemented then this would open the way for a comprehensive reassessment of Russian-Ukrainian relations including their economic ties.
So it appears that Poroshenko, Merkel and possibly Hollande are trying to do something to stop the US plan, but that Putin is very dubious about whether they have what it takes to go from words to concrete action.
A lot of well-informed sources say that Poroshenko controls nothing anyway, and that the local CIA station chief is taking all the decisions. So if, like I think, Obama and his puppets will over-rule Merkel and Hollande, then a Russian military intervention will happen.
“Anonymous” above quoted Dugin as saying that the intervention will happen in 10 days. I am not a big fan of Dugin, but that sounds about right to me.
The Saker
One thing for sure, if Putin decides there is no alternative but to use a show of force against the US-sponsored forces in Ukraine, he will have mentally prepared himself to go the whole way to defend Russia should the lunatics not take the hint.
saker all is well but it is better if russian intention are not disclosed.
“Donetsk and the surrounding cities are half Ukranian.”
The Donetsk and Lugansk regions are overwhelmingly Russian-speaking. I’d say over 95%. When the census asks people what ethnicity they belong to, a Russian-speaking Ukrainian citizen can go with either Russian or Ukrainian based on his current opinion of local politics or just his mood that day.
24% of Crimeans called themselves Ukrainians in the last census. Yet according to Pew, an American polling firm, 88% of them recently wanted the Ukrainian government to recognize their referendum (the one that reunited them with Russia). Only 4% did not want their referendum recognized. The rest were undecided. I guarantee to you that in the next census the percentage identifying themselves as Ukrainians will be at least halved.
If a person feels himself split between two identities, or belonging to both of them, what sort of events can push him into a single identity? Attempts to ban and demonize his native language, airstrikes against civilians like him – stuff like that.
The jdea that only economic losers in the former USSR are nostalgic about Soviet days is a Western fantasy. You’d love if that were true, so you just assume that it is true. Trust me, there js a lot of nostalgia at all levels.
What sort of plan could they have cooked up? If they were any sort of sensible they would conclude that the situation of the far right having all the guns, and holding the government to ransom whilst receiving 1% of the vote was unsustainable. Kiev, Donbass and Russia have to be rid of them for their to be any possibility of peace IMO.
Putin shakes hands with Porosenko (piggy son in Russian – my own nickname for him), the news from today hint that Putin somehow managed to influence the situation positively and maybe there won’t be an intervention after all.
But in all cases, this right to intervene will be used only in the worst case scenario. Which has not yet kicked in.
I guess the only observation worth adding is this.
The atrocities being committed by CIA-financed Neo-Nazi criminals can only, realistically, have one goal: drawing in Russian troops.
There can be no other goal. Uniting Ukraine? Obviously not. Putting Ukraine on its feet economically? Obviously not.
No, this is the bully’s provocation. But bully’s don’t do well when someone stands up to them.
Putin’s intelligence, I believe, is excellent. He knows where everything is and where everyone is. He can act. I don’t know what he wants to do.
My friends
my heart hurts very much when I realize where we are and where we are heading.
I pray for all the people involved on all sides that the madness of hatred and agression may pass as soon as possible and a peaceful period may the ensue !!!
Saker, Dugin said “10 days” on May 29th, 8 days ago. So he meant this coming Sunday. Here’s the text:
http://m.vk.com/wall18631635_2884
And yesterday he implied that this will only affect the Donbass.
http://m.vk.com/wall18631635_2930
He said that his hopes for the rest of eastern Ukraine are pegged on the fall of this year, when IMF and EU austerity will start to bite and more regions will succumb to unrest.
War bleeds a country to death. Be it financially, physically or otherwise. One can defend oneself and be morally right, but in an attack, the defense of righting a wrong does not equate a win. The dustbin of history is littered with the carcasses of those who have tried. I don’t know Putin and I most certainly can’t read his mind. The only option left [to me] is to geustimate his [in]action/s. I’m not good at chess, but I most certainly would not move my queen [the combined armed forces] out into the open and expose them to attacks from all sides. I would use the Ukraine as a ‘boat fender’ [for the time being] until the USS ‘We Keep FF-ng U Over’ has sailed home.
I still think even Obama might be on board with a plan to wipe out rightsector now thatthey are geographically isolated away from the kievcrowds that ran interference for them previously. Obama should understand the GOP is also out on a limb and they can be crushedby getting them to scream for Russian blood while not understanding how horrifying and disqualifying that is to intelligent independents libertarians and trueconservatives. The Dems will win if they subvert neocons.
Dear Saker,
Who is the Chocolate King, but a boy of Putin. And, where does he sells most of his Chocolate, beside Mother Russia.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
Sadly, Saker, I think you are correct.
I’ve been around for a few moons and I’ve never seen the war drums beating so loud in USA and EU as now. Are they crazy, mentally deranged, or just plain stupud?
They have made the huge mistake of underestimating both Mr. Putin and the new Russian armed forces and, most important, the Russian People.
My sources say that Pyatt specifically told chocboy to get on with the job and get it done in their little meeting before chocboy left for Normandy. Chocboy will not stop even though Mr. Putin gave him an out at Normandy. I told VCO on 01 December, the day I also told her Yanukovich would loose to the coup d’etat, that Tyagnibok, Poroshenko and Yarush, all of them, would not stop, they will never stop until we kill them.
I agree with Saker in that the Russian Army will stop first at the boundaries of Donbas Republic. Most of the Uke army will surrender en mass. Right sector and perhaps a few Ukes will fight. They will die. The Uke Air Force will cease to exist the first day. The pitiful remains of the Uke Navy will cease to exist the first day. Humanitarian aid will at the same time pour in to Donbas from Russia and China. Yes, China.
Within a week Mr. Putin, faced with still continuous provocations from Kiev and EU/UK/US, will be forced to move west to the Dnepr. With more provocations the Russian Army and Navy will then take the south coast all the way west to Moldova and in the process free Odessa from the right sector terrorists.
The steady stream of supply flights and replacement airframes from Poland and the FRG will be given a binary solution. Stop or go down in flames. They will try a flight or two, Mr. Putin will do what he said he would do, and the flights will stop.
All this will be done to a screaming crescendo from EU/UK, USA and that military powerhouse Canada. To no avail. Sanctions will be piled on from The West and the EU economy will go deeper in to the toilet than it already is. Many of the EU citizens are seething as it is against the idiocy of their political masters. Some heads may roll if all this comes to pass.
All this prediction is being made by a man who sits on his balcony and watches the Russian Black Sea Flot sitting at quayside. If US decides to pull a ‘Copenhagen’ on the flot they will find an empty harbor but we, sitting 1000 meters from the quays, might have an interesting moment or two. At the first sign of Russian troops crossing the border VCO will be outta here, up to the Krimea Steppes until the dust settles.
Thank you for your very imformative posts, which I’ve been following closely for the past week. I hope you are right that Putin still has a hidden strategy. The battle for the freedom of Novorossiya means more to me than you can imagine, even though I am thousands of miles away. It affects me in very concrete terms. But today I am demoralized and disheartened that Putin apparently has praised Poroshenko’s attitude. Putin’s great power came from his integrity. How can praise of Poroshenko be a sign of integrity? I would appreciate your deeper insight into this, as I need a bit of encouragement right now. Thanks again for your wonderfully informative sitreps and commentaries. Very sincerely, Someone from Across the Water.
My guess is that he is trying to do the right thing on surface to win even more moral support around the globe, which has been quite successful so far. It is quite stunning and puzzling to some degree that how many people around the globe are sympathetic with Russia.
Apparently some of the militia members/active helpers from Krasny Liman actually decided to stay behind, go home, and… probably pretend they’d had nothing to do with the whole thing. Turned to be an extremely unwise decision. Now most are either dead or have been taken to the same dungeons in Izyum that the Lifenews journalists were first brought to. Hopefully it will cure the desire to “just go home” in the future.
Thank you for your very imformative posts, which I’ve been following closely for the past week. I hope you are right that Putin still has a hidden strategy. The battle for the freedom of Novorossiya means more to me than you can imagine, even though I am thousands of miles away. It affects me in very concrete terms. But today I am demoralized and disheartened that Putin apparently has praised Poroshenko’s attitude. Putin’s great power came from his integrity. How can praise of Poroshenko be a sign of integrity? I would appreciate your deeper insight into this, as I need a bit of encouragement right now. Thanks again for your wonderfully informative sitreps and commentaries. Very sincerely, Someone from Across the Water.
Soarintothesky (20.00),
Russian economy doesn’t have to stagnate because 50 Russians cannot travel to Riviera.
It started to stagnate well before Crimea, because the price of oil is stagnant. Russia’s near total dependence on the price of oil is its biggest problem.
And joining WTO – Putin’s crowning blunder – is what cemented it.
Historically, there never was a single country in the world that became fully developed without shielding its industry from onslaught of cheap imports, sometimes for a very long time. Russia is no exeption. Either it exits WTO and resorts to bilateral trade agreements that benefit it directly – or it will forever remain just a supplier of hydrocarbons with some auxiliary indusries, and not much else.
I believe Putin’s calculation was that Russia would attract whole bunch of chemical plants because of the abundance of cheap feedstock, but since that didn’t happen and won’t happen, WTO membership is worse than useless – it’s harmful.
——————————-
UK, of course, is NOT growing. The nominal GDP may be rising, but since Brits cook their inflation statistics (just like Americans do), the growth is way overstated. Real GDP deflator is around 5 percent, not 1 percent the official data suggests. Therefore even 5 percent headline growth number is just a stagnation. Everyone in Britain, except for Cameron and Osborne, know that. There is not enough lipstick in the world to make that pig look good.
UK finances are a horror show, and the main reason why Brits are so reluctant to put kibosh on inflow of Russian money. Total stock of debt of 600% of GDP is unprecedented for a major country, and a perfect chokehold on British economy. It’s not going anywhere.
Another issue is that of western lunacy. They love war, they love and need “splendid little wars” but have a way to get stuck in big wars every now and then. It was Nikita who saved the world–and Cuba as well–in 1962. Without NK, with any normal face-saving leader, we would have had WW3.
A safer solution to the problem would be to deliver modern equipment and advisors.
Oh, ye heretics… Have ye forgotten how bad, how really, really bad Mother Russia, really, really is? Russian propaganda machine ‘worse than Soviet Union’. Brought to you by your trustworthy friends over @ the BBC…
OMG, I’m going to be violently ill…
@Daniel Rich
Bridget Kendall of the BBC is a decrepit fat over-the-hill Russian speaking MI6 operative that specializes in denigrating Russia and especially Putin, i wouldn’t take anything that comes out of that slut’s mouth seriously. She is totally without credibility and the link you provided is pure propaganda filled with British sour-grapes and poorly masked feelings of Britain’s accelerating inadequacy.
Poroshenko has not yet taken office. The recent escalation in violence by the army are being directed by a government with Svodoba Party and Right Sector elements. These guys are not likely going to be part of Poroshenko’s government. He has to tread very cautiously if it is in fact his goal to settle peaceably with the Russians.
Right Sector still has thousands of activists in Kiev and they could cause him some serious problems.
To summarize, the recent escalation in fighting is just the last spasm by the neo-nazi elements before they are removed. Poroshenko will try to bring the war to an end. Who knows if he can pull it off.
“Crossvader, Russia is facing a big recession.”
Russia is a lot healthier economically than any Western country. It has next to no debt (0.12 of GDP I think). Its Western rivals are drowning in debt. Yes, the standard of living in France or Canada is higher, but Russia has a better trajectory.
As the Far East develops further, the world will need more and more energy. That must mean higher energy prices.
“mount a useless symbolic invasion of Lugansk”
Economic considerations aren’t driving these sorts of decisions, but if we do look at the economy, there IS a potential long-term upside. For the past 23 years the oligarchs have been milking the Donbass without investing in it. A more responsible approach (which we can expect from Putin) can return that region to its former industrial glory.
Here’s what we in Amerika see from the so-called liberal press.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/putin-poroshenko-had-awkward-meeting-155410879.html
Saker I do believe you are on the right track and it’s not going to be long before Putin does step in. The bombing of not only citizens and destruction of power grids and water systems is what Amerika has done all around the world. If you can’t win the whole prize then leave nothing behind that’s usable. The neo-con cycle-0-paths war cry.
Thanks Juan for the update.
Poroshenko will have to go to the moderate generals and tell them to put a stop to the offensive. He needs to speak to the people. This video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwAarAn7Q5E shows that the people, even in Lviv, will support him. Going against the empire is dangerous but if he doesn’t do it he will be in trouble and the death of his campaign manager has made that clear.
The oligarchs are terrified of Novorosoiya. Their property will be nationalized. They know the offensive won’t work and it’s time to try something else.
The Austrian papers report that President Putin will visit Vienna on June 24th and will also meet Poroshenko there on that date. After all the rabid anti-Russian propaganda in which they have been indulging they seem a bit conflicted about this visit now.
Personally I am glad at this sign that my country’s timid politicians are not completely captured by the NATO propaganda, and hope it will be a successful visit (unless events intervene, as the Saker indicates.) BTW our Ambassador in Russia, the widow of our former President Klestil, is half Russian herself and has long had good relations with President Putin.
Under the circumstances I would fully understand if Russia intervened to protect the civilians population of Novrossia, I just hope that the conflict can be contained within Ukraine. All those warships, new planes, tanks travelling around the continent were sent for just this eventuality, I fear.
Whatever happens, I hope that the monsters behind the current atrocities will find their rightful punishment, all the way to the top.
Dear God.
We are so incredibly evil. Mr. Nora’s a really laid-back kind of guy and I don’t think I’ve ever seen him this mad about anything. I went out to the gardens to give him this SITREP and he just stopped and glared, said he could scream, swore a bit and then spat out, “This is no different from rounding up Jews and Gypsies — and we’re doing it!” How very convenient of us to call Putin Hitler.
But another thing we’re doing — and this time I mean *us* here on this blog: we’re waiting for Putin too, right, or the Novorossiyans to really give ’em hell. WE’RE waiting, just like we’re accusing THEM of doing, and really of course we all know it’s the Empire’s aggression and the EU’s spinelessness that’s MAKING this happen.
So let’s US do something: how about writing a letter to your local newspaper with a little background information and, say, 3-5 recent Donbass atrocities of your choice. Our leaders are hopeless, but that’s not to say that everyone who reads a newspaper is. If you can just get a couple people to start thinking, and digging around for real (non-MSM) data, they’ll talk to others. It may not be enough to stop things but at least you’ll have done *something* rather than merely bemoaning the hellishness of what is being done in your name and with your tax dollars.
Anonymous 17:26
“And if a single syllable of what he reports is false or misleading, he is an agent provocateur.”
Huh? Why? It’s a bit of a truism, that “fog of war”… Could lead to many honest mistakes, don’t you think? But for some reason you’re already spreading slurs on this particular person. I find that rather curious, to say the least. (There’s another truism that comes to mind, perhaps: if it doesn’t fit, turn it around…)
N. Solntseff,
“Let us hope that sober minds prevail in the West!”
sigh. Name one.
¢ Crossvader 06 June, 2014 19:17
> Any Russian President should customarily boycott the event, unless afforded a speech ( where he could highlight Nazi marches in today’s Baltics and Ukraine, apparently condoned by the USA).
> He had all the momentum in the world after Crimea. Now squandered.
Your idea is not without sense but I think he wanted to speak with few politicians personally. Perhaps if Saker was right it was Mr. Putin’s sort of the last probe on European intentions, thinkings and in possible political developments had the military confrontation started.
Regards
jo6pac said:
“Here’s what we in Amerika see from the so-called liberal press.”
The author is Armin Rosen. I am familiar with his Yahoo! articles on Russia. He’s your typical Trotskyite Jew who’s 100% behind American imperialism, as advanced by his tribesmen in the Deep State. That he supports American ‘values’ being spread around the world is not surprising at all.
Hello from Canada.
The 70th anniversary of D-Day is today so I just wanted to send out a sincere “thank you” to anyone here who is from any of the former Soviet republics and the many other countries for the massive contribution your parents and grandparents made when our countries fought together against the Axis forces during WW2. Hopefully the world will never have to endure such a conflict ever again.
In my opinion,Putin hasn’t made any miscalculation since the start of this immensely foul and evil regime change by the Khaganate of Nulands ( borrowing terminology from Pepe Escobar). The civilians massacres have been extremely tragic but they were bound to happen with the thugs in the central government.
In response to Crossvader, I disagree that Putin did a mistake by attending the D-day commemorations. To me it appears that this was his last significant opportunity to engage in a definitive dialogue with the various interested parties and to gauge their intentions, both declared and undeclared, especially after he was kept out of the G7 meeting.
As stated by the Svedborg,his cautious appreciation of Poroshenko might give us a glimmer of home that he could turn the tide or at least halt the proceeding, buying some vital time for diplomatic dialogue.
If it didn’t work out, then we must brace ourselves for a precise and surgical intervention by the Russians and the scenario could be something like suggested by the Auslander although I would think that it would probably be fast and accurate.
Mr President Sir(Putin),
A great number of people in this world are looking up to you and hoping that you would stop this barrage of insanity, hatred and death created by the Empire and I am hopeful that you wouldn’t let us down.
@ A_Chinese 06 June, 2014 19:46
> If he is lucky and plays right, this could be the end of NATO.
I’m sorry but another “if” from the infinite series of “ifs”. You __must__ take into the equation intense activity of the US.
> I think there are probably two major reasons that He doesn’t want and shouldn’t to intervene.
> 1, Economic burden of owning the Ukraine is too big.
That’s the main problem with those who support Mr. Putin “waiting” until Ukraine will be worth __zero__ (completely ruined).
Assuming the dire end of the state there would show someone who would have to take the burden on its shoulders. That is why I reproached the Saker and other pro Putin readers – why to destroy the country first then what? Waiting until Kiev regime would come to Kremlin on knees begging for help? Why not to save the country now? Every thinking human being know that Ukraine needs help and someone will have to do it. EU? NATO? The USA? Stop kidding yourselves.
> 2, Alienating Germany and other European.
How long Messes Lavrov and Putin and Peskov and others have to explain Russian stance on military,world politics and security, world economics etc.? How long yet?
Let it be up to the Germany to decide what they want – either they succumb to US danger of rape them or they will start walking tall and treat both themselves and their EU seriously. Someone once said “enough is enough”. Let the Germany shows she is able to learn.
> If military intervention is to inevitable, he should wait until enough European public feel disgust
Can you evaluate the period of time? With EU being medially brainwashed?
> As for the US government, owning the Kiev government is too big economic and political liability, the only way out for them is to get Russia involved.
What do you mean? Have you defined US goals in Ukraine? Another problem with those blindly believing in Putin is underestimating Americans, their soft and hard power and their resolve to achieve their goals – usually if not always stepping on people and peoples (nations).
Regards
Less dramatically, a revealing piece in an obscure journal by a Guardian reporter in which he criticises his editors – to the shock of no one remotely familiar with that Round Table paper and its richly cynical history -for acting as stenographers for Washington’s Kievan Nazis:
http://www.wwd.com/menswear-news/lifestyle/m-lost-and-found-in-ukraine-7697990?full=true
The West are desperate for Putin to go into Ukraine so why would you play into their hands? History has shown that you never do the very thing they desperately want you to do
The D-Day Sideshow 70th Anniversary has seen a great deal of moronic boasting by the Western MSM sewer inhabitants asserting that it represented the ‘turning-point in WW2’ etc. The denial of reality, that the ‘Western Front’ was a sideshow, that the war was already won, by the Soviet Union, that the ‘Allies’, if faced by the even a portion of the huge German forces fighting on the Eastern Front, would not have got out of their boats, let alone off the beach, is, as in all things, psychopathic. Unfortunately the West’s narcissistic demand to always be the centre of attention, and utter contempt for the efforts, sacrifices and achievements of non-Westerners only grows more lurid as the West sinks into the sewer of its own moral corruption.
Obama, of course, set the bar high for filthy hypocrisy. He bellowed some lie about the soldiers’ sacrifice so that the USA or the West(it was the old ‘we’)would not need to wage war in the future, or some such malarkey. Not in Western Europe, where class war has sufficed, but in every other corner of the planet the USA has not ceased being at war since their Nazi friends, who they so generously gave refuge to after 1945, were defeated by Soviet power and immense sacrifice.
Tellingly, in France, one of the most thoroughly Zionist controlled states on Earth, the Holy Holocaust was wheeled out for ritual obeisance. Funnily enough, there was no mention of that other Holocaust, occurring at exactly the same time as the Nazi genocides, the Bengal Famine that killed between six and ten million (nobody knows how many, because, after all, these were merely ‘Asiatics’)a horror that Indian historians firmly attribute to deliberate English policy.
Paul 06 June, 2014 21:20
Thanks and that’s about all we see here from the so-called liberal press and I’m sure if I did watch tb it wouldn’t be any different.
Honour to the Red Army veterans and the Western veterans of D-Day.
I watch every episode of Vladimir Soloviev’s show. I have never seen him support Russian military intervention in Ukraine. And if I interpret him correctly, then he defends non-intervention, but he also defends the right for intervention if things go catastrophic.
This is also sums up my hypothesis. The goal is to defend Russian policy of non-intervention and at the same time to prepare Russians for intervention in Ukraine. So that all options are on the table. No doubt the “west” is also watching and analyzing Russian media, so it’s also a signal to them that Putin has all options, and more importantly, that whichever option Putin chooses, he will have the full support of Russians.
Personally what I would like to see, IF a) Russia will intervene, b) Russia is sincere about it and c) it doesn’t entail too big of an additional risk for the Russian armed forces, would be something like this: Russia could make a public video stating their case openly. Specifically, it would have Putin explaining to the people of the world exactly why they are doing this, namely, because of the killing of civilians in eastern Ukraine (insert real footage here). Western media could be targeted (because they have done nothing but lied, and this could be shown explicitly) and also the western politicians (because they have been weak puppets not up to their duty). The situation could be explained exactly, and specific conditions could be given (the anti-terrorist operation must end by date X) or there will be specific consequences (the operation will continue until condition Y: any ukrainian units taking part in the attack are destroyed, or a no-fly zone is imposed, or a humanitarian corridor will be opened). The beauty of this would be that, as far as I can tell, only the truth need be used (contrasting the decades of lies of the u.s. for going to war). Since the Ukrainian or European governments were unable to stop the massacre (despite their words to that effect), this message should be directed more to the people of Russia, Ukraine, Europe and the world. This video would probably go viral very quickly and be seen (via social networks) by a reasonable section of the world’s population, and maybe even get through the stupor of the (non-Saker-reading) western people and make them sit up and (finally) think. This would also be fair to the world, since the risk of WW3 starting from this operation would not be negligible.
@Anonymous 21:49
An excellent suggestion, if and when it becomes necessary.
Perhaps he should add that his legal team will consider Media owners and their management complicit in war-crimes and conspiracy to enable mass-murder if their organizations are shown to censor evidence of war crimes or sanitize the actions of war-criminals. Wouldn’t that be a great fantasy?
Remember Putin’s the same guy that assured the West that no Russian troops would intervene in Crimea. Yet, we all know, how quickly Putin’s Polite Men in Green secured Crimea: While the arrogants idiots in State Dept were slapping each other on their backs congratulating themselves on grabbing Ukrainian, Putin launched a brilliant silent bloodless Blitzkrieg to secure Crimea militarily to allow the people of the region the political breathing space to vote for their reunification.
Putin and Poroshenko just met in Normandie.
Had a little talk and seemed to get along quite well, despite their previous disagreaments.
Putin had an unformal talk with Obama too.
There will be no direct Russian intervention in Donbass.
For Russian-speaking readers:
http://www.newsru.com/world/06jun2014/putinporosh.html
As I wrote before, the DPR people gonna get backstabbed and then it’ll be business as usual…
You’re wrong to assume an absolute: “there will be no direct intervention in Donbass” based purely on a single platitude made in France. Direct Russian intervention in Ukraine depends entirely on the situation and context going forward.
Putin’s covert support will continue (he’s winning). He will not stab the people of Donbass in the back based on a single press release. It’s his main leverage against a group who built their empire mainly on breaking treaties and murdering their trusting victims when they let their guard down.
If Putin was so cowed/cajoled by the West, then he’d also reverse course on de-dollarizing his Energy contracts; that’s the REAL threat that gets the West into psychotic state of aggression. The fact that he hasn’t given any concession on this far more serious issue, tells you he isnt intimidated into giving away Ukraine.
If doesn’t directly intervene but steps up covert support how is he stabbing anyone in the back?
Dear Saker,
FYI Boris Johnson is the same school as Cameron and Osborne. He plays the buffoon, but is no different to the rest of the Bullingdon Boyz of his era. His tousled hair is the equivalent of Tymoschenko’s braids – a PR gimmick.
@ BOT TAK
Off topice: as discussed in another thread – Donald Sterling’s last laugh: Tax-free $2 billion Clippers sale.
A direct Russian military intervention would be deadly dangerous. It would escalate the situation and trigger God knows what moves from the other side. The adults on both sides must know that it is vital at this point to DE-escalate.
Those both in the West and in Russia who are calling for escalation and attacking anyone advocating diplomacy or compromise as weak or traitors should be ignored for the idiots that they are.
If Russia does decide to intervene, and I pray to God they don’t one possibility might to be to invoke R2P at the Security Council. The West would no doubt veto but Kosovo set a precedent for overriding the veto and taking military action regardless. The obvious R2P would be a no fly zone over Donetsk and Lugansk regions. Definitely not Russian Army boots on the ground in East Ukraine.
This is why the 1999 war and the recognition of Kosovo in 2007 was so dangerous. It created a disastrous precedent and chickens may be coming home to roost.
What needs to happen is a ceasefire and negotiations on some kind of autonomy for the eastern regions, preferably a federal Ukraine. IF Kiev is prepared to at least discuss the possibility Moscow should be prepared to offer a very generous discount on the gas and write off the old debts (they’re never going to be paid anyway)
Daniel Rich.
“I would use the Ukraine as a ‘boat fender’ [for the time being] until the USS ‘We Keep FF-ng U Over’ has sailed home.” Very good points indeed, but I’m having trouble right now thinking of a time that ship of state has *ever* sailed home without inflicting maximum damage. Am I just drawing a blank? Have we, ever?
Auslander,
“Are they crazy, mentally deranged, or just plain stupid?”
Yes.
Still hoping against hope for a peaceful solution, and praying for you, yours and not-yet-and-hopefully-never-gonna-need-to-be-yours.
At today’s press-conference in Normandy (video 10:21, in Russian) V.V.Putin demanded investigation of the crimes of the Pravy Sektor in Ukraine – including these which he mentioned explicitly:
1) shooting Ukr troops who refused to attack their own people;
2) shooting injured people in a captured hospital;
3) Odessa
The fact that Russia has intelligence on these incidents is no surprise. Significant is that he made such specific, public accusations, and signalled that he is determined to see justice served.
I concur with Auslander’s sentiment – I can’t recall such bellicose rhetoric (regarding a major power like Russia) from Washington, statements that leave little room to back away without it looking like surrender. Obama’s speech in Poland where he said that the West would never accept the Russian annexation of Krim seemed to me to be very dangerous – Putin/Russia will NOT back down there, so what is the intent? God help us all.
the pessimist
I once read a book about Saddam Hussein by a man who knew him. Saddam really believed in private that if he followed the rules of Americans, he would be spared. He got rid of his weapons of mass destruction and was killed by the US anyway. Clearly appeasing the West is bad strategy.
I fear Putin has fallen into this trap. Surely he had studied in detail the recent history of Iraq.
Why then does he appear to be making the same mistake?
Do you know of any way for a person to get a message to Putin?
Person Concerned about Novorossiya
I know things like this don’t matter in the big scheme of things, but I can’t help but laugh at “”Obama is a tough President”.” The contrast between Obama straining at his 8 pound barbells and making a tough guy squinting face for the cameras and Putin’s vigorous work out routine of judo and swimming. I know such comments typically invite the accusation that ‘you traitor American you’re rooting for Putin over your President’ or at least of juvenile action movie concepts of ‘manliness’ but that isn’t the case.
The only group of people I’m rooting for here are the citizens of Donbass to find a way to live in peace, one way or another.
As for Russian intervention, it seems to me the globalists have always tried to force Putin’s hand with one atrocity after another, while using the large NATO exercise in Lviv region planned for next month to create a deadline in the Kremlin’s mind. If understood correctly, NATO first claimed to call off then pressure was apparently brought to bear and now it’s on again.
Seems the NATO calculation is Putin would not dare directly introduce ground troops while NATO troops are active and armed in Ukraine, even if they’re 300 miles to the west near the Polish border. On that note my thanks again to Juan for all he is doing getting the truth out to the world despite the fog of war and undoubtedly vast pro-Kiev disinfo operations underway including trolling/demoralization propaganda throughout many Russian language threads.
Last but not least, per our Spaniard air traffic controller friend ousted from Kiev, I expect some Polish language websites and alternative newspapers to start reporting on missing pilots thought shot down over SE Ukraine within days.
American Kulak
Maybe Kiev has a ‘Plan B’, in case the American push fails to evoke a Russian shove. If they can’t inveigle a Russian invasion, perhaps they hope to simply frighten opponents in the east into fleeing to Russia. Thus they get rid of them and let them become a burden to Russia.
@ Auslander 06 June, 2014 20:37
> I agree with Saker in that the Russian Army will stop first at the boundaries of Donbas Republic.
I’m not pro Putin (time is on his side) or anti Putin (why he does not intervene).
Every such division implies well defined prime set of goals. Help now or later? Do it by Russia or give the failed state to revive to somebody else, etc.
I assumed only one goal in all my calculations and that is the basic cause we are on opposite sides (of a triangle).
I am deeply convinced that first and utmost one is to physically destroy National Guard and Right Sector units as long as they are mobilized and thus exposed.
My nightmarish visions sow me whole Ukraine taken hostage by ultra nationalist which would be done by diluted into social fabric on all levels.
You are intelligent to explain you step by step what it would mean for the state and the people of Ukraine.
Every level of social lives would be imbibed with nationalism the worst of all, identical to that which created Volyn genocide and others.
In the light of the above ideas such issues like wedges between NATO and USA, EU and RF, USA and EU, fall of $, unipolar vice multi polar world are important, but not as much as making things tidy in the cross point of Europe, Asia, Middle East and Africa.
First one (here Russia, alas, she allowed herself to the corner, not my fault) has to get rid of the explosive geographical point and its fuzes – ultra nationalist, fascists and the cut-throat activist from Ukraine.
Russia must take whole Ukraine. Annihilate thugs not worth to live, make necessary political changes, make elections and then withdraw.
Any partition or other murky solutions not based on my radical and bloody assumption will not resolve the Ukrainian issue and other global political issues.
Nora, in the propaganda sewer that is the Australian MSM, this week we have had a slag (my apologies to iron-making waste)called Anja Niestadt or some such, from the ever odious Human Rights Watch, asserting that the ‘atrocities’ in Novorossya have been committed mostly by the secessionists, and that evidence of Banderista death-squad operations have been ‘faked’ and ‘photo-shopped. And an (expletive deleted) called Anna Reid of the hard Right shit-rag ‘Economist’ asserting, with lip-curling arrogance and contempt, that Russia is the aggressor in the entire Ukraine fracas, and that the fascists in the Maidan were a tiny minority.
It put me in mind, yet again, of how arrogant lying has become not just acceptable, not just ubiquitous but mandatory in public life in the West, in just a few decades. I well remember when lying was considered a bad thing, but now our ‘leaders’ lie openly and always, then lie about their lying. They are joined by the Rightwing MSM, where the lying is allied to vicious, ever growing, fear and hate-mongering, with the Murdoch cancer leading the way.
I was reminded, too, of one of the springs of this behaviour just yesterday. Our current Federal regime, the most evil in our history by a long distance, has just switched long held bipartisan policy concerning the Occupied Territories in Palestine, to drop the word ‘occupied’ in line with Judeofascist demands, but out of step with virtually every country on Earth. The most evil regime the most pro-Israel- now that makes sense. The ABC decided, not to present a voice pointing out our isolation, but a prominent local Zionazi liar, who gave a tour de farce of arrogant, and these creatures do contemptuous arrogance like no others, lying, with no countervailing voice to point out his serial lies, one after the other. I was reminded while listening, that utterly contemptuous and brazen lying really began with the Judeofascists lying about their actions, allied of course with total MSM complicity, and the immediate mobilisation of the ‘antisemite’ slur whenever they are confronted over their assault on the truth.
Interesting reading, but why should putin not just wait?
he can support the donetz force with men and better equipment – not just the old udssr stuff. AA-Missiles, short range Ground to Ground Missiles and Anti-Tank-Weapons thereare al lot of options.
Only thing he has to make sure ist, the donezk troops won-t break. The following bloodshet will deligtimate the kiew goverment – at one point the world will be satisfied, someone put this war to an end – that s russia enters the scene.
“Best” thing for Putin to happen would be a massacer of NG – moscow can prove
Daniel Rich, the sheer arrogant effrontery of the BBC, that lies about everything in service to the Empire, accusing someone else of ‘propaganda’is beyond parody. And with that ‘God is an Englishman’ arrogance that really turns the stomach.
Regarding the Putin Poroshenko meeting – RT had a piece a few days ago suggesting that the military was not under the control of the president. Didn’t the Rada strip the president of much of his authority back in February? Seems Putin said pretty clearly “good ideas son, now go back home and sell it”. A doubtful proposition perhaps.
the pessimist
“The second fastest growing big economy right now is the UK, not a developing country and its manufacturing led(China’s still ahead” Sorry I call BS on this claim. Where’s the real evidence? What affordable energy would draw manufacturing back to Blighty with fracking barely begun? Looks like more BoE smoke and mirrors to me, like the so-called ‘recovery’ here in the U.S. which is mostly non-existent outside a few corridors like the Bay Area and Bos-Wash (with job markets in Philaldelphia and New Jersey certainly not getting better).
I actually believed what SoartoSky was saying, right until he threw that MSM whopper in. A sincere expat perhaps but duped by the propaganda.
American Kulak
Interesting that the assault on ethnic Russians has maximized on historical D-Day.
Seems a satanic inversion to me.
@ Daruma Doll 06 June, 2014 21:51
> Putin and Poroshenko just met in Normandie.
> There will be no direct Russian intervention in Donbass.
> As I wrote before, the DPR people gonna get backstabbed and then it’ll be business as usual…
The US demanded, the EU asked and Mr. Putin fulfilled all the Western preconditions for further… bloodshed and irking sanctions.
Does he wanted to make the Western politicians be more smiling, exposing all their teeth only to knock them out in greater numbers when he will strike in Ukraine, witht CIA and other military intelligence agencies still heard nothing in the air attesting to intense activity of Russian military?
With Crimea Russia fooled the CIA and other intel agencies like never before.
The differences between Putin and Obama, in pictures:
http://www.tomatobubble.com/putin_obama.html
Warning: pinkos may find it ‘racist, sexist and homophobic’.
I translated the transcript of the Politics with Peter Tolstoi show and posted it here:
Ukraine: how to stop the bloodshed?
Participants:
Sergey Shargunov, writer
Alexander Kofman, head of the Secretariat of the coordinating Council of the public movement “South-East”
Andrey Isaev, Chairman of the State Duma committee on labor, social policy and veterans’ affairs (fraction “uniform Russia”)
Vladimir Zubanov, former adviser to presidents of Ukraine Viktor Yanukovych
Vladimir Skachko, political scientist, chief editor of the newspaper “Kievsky Telegraph” (Ukraine)
Vladislav Shurygin, military expert, chief editor of the newspaper “Journalistic truth”
Sergei Markov, Chairman of the Inter-Commission Task Force for International Cooperation of the Public Chamber of the Russian Federation
Dmitry Orlov, Director General of Agency of political and economical communications
Alexander Dugin, scientist, philosopher, leader of the International Eurasian movement
Karen Shakhnazarov, drector, people’s artist of Russia
Vladimir Gromov, Commissioner of staff of the Army of the South-East of the Lugansk People’s Republic
Egor Kvasnyuk, coordinator of the liberation movement (Odessa, Ukraine)
Maxim Petrukhin, Deputy of the Supreme Council of Donetsk People’s Republic
Vladimir Alekseev, Deputy of the Kharkiv Regional Council, expert of OSCE and Council of Europe
I tried out Yandex Translate for the first time. Found it to be astonishingly good. Most of the translation is exactly like Google Translate. The above list is creted using a combinations of both; neither could get all names and titles right.
***
Someone already linked to this statement by Alexandr Dugin: “Putin will end up like Gaddafi!”
From his Facebook page:
Путин, введи войска! #putinvvedivoiska
(Putin, send in the army!)
I spent a day with Alexandr Dugin some two weeks ago. His lecture in Helsinki was a huge success.
@EVERYBODY: please read the translation of the transcript of the show Politics with Peter Tolstoi made by Petri Krohn and posted here:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/truth-about-situation-in-ukraine/ukraine-how-to-stop-the-bloodshed/1508127859410561
There are some very well informed and sharp guests on this show, so a big THANK YOU to Petri Krohn for the translation!
The Saker
@ Nora,
Q: Am I just drawing a blank? Have we, ever?
R: No, you’re not. I wish I Had the stomach to lie to you and tell you otherwise. We’ve maimed and killed so many people, all the time claiming to liberate one thing or another, that it make me puke over and over again when I see all those mo-fus [pardon my language] out there lying through their teeth.
The Battle of the Bulge tells you what would have happened if Germany’s forces wouldn’t have been wasted in the East. Like you, I was told/taught that ‘we’ won the war, that ‘we’ were the decisive factor in a just outcome of the ‘war effort.’
Good won over evil… until you start reading article 19 and 21 of the Nuremberg Trial Proceedings Vol. 1
Charter of the International Military Tribunal
19) The Tribunal shall not be bound by technical rules of evidence.
21) The Tribunal shall not require proof of facts of common knowledge but shall take judicial notice thereof.
If ‘you’ keep this in mind, it explains why Putin ‘annexed’ Crimea, but no the ‘Ukraine.’
I am convinced Russia will not attack anything outside its territory. The costs more than outweigh any benefits.
To Petri Krohn:
What type of people go listen to Dugin’s lectures?
I believe they are mostly European nationalists, but of a different breed of what we are used to see.
The Russian economy depend on the both the oil price (and gas price) and the market access. After 9.11 USA have decided to become independent of energy import. This was made possible by a huge increase in the oil price and the extraction of shale oil. The oil price have now been high for so long time that there have been made to much investment in new production capacity. The oil price will crash unless some producers is hindered access to the market. By hindering Russian access to the European energy market USA kills to birds with one stone. They keep the price of oil up (and thus help the US shale oil industry) and they open up Europe for US LNG. As a extra bonus they inflict damage to Russia and Putin.
No doubt the explosion at the generating station just outside Pristina was just “one of those things” ?
Only a few days until the inexorable advance of General Winter…
Very interesting and disturbing read, the Tolstoi transcript. Now RT is reporting that the US will provide military advisers to Ukraine (asap) along with the ‘non-lethal’ aid package and other assistance already approved. The warning lights are blinking red I’m afraid…
the pessimist
Obama has been out played by Putin on both Syria and Crimea, he is very wounded, most likely will not back down.
I also think Russia can not cut EU gas is a bull. A notice should have server long ago: if you want energy security, then do not mess with my national security.
Putin went to Normandy to be humiliated, to be ignored, to be demeaned… to try one last time to stop the killing in Ukraine through peaceful means.
He is a head of state. He is a proud man. He knew what would happen in Normandy. But he thought it was worth it.
The world is about to find out what “Russian intelligence” really means.
The CIA crazies that run the US government (God does that sound nuts) are about to get what they want. I hope you like what you get, Victoria.