Okay, predictably some has misunderstood my rant as a change in heart. Others wonder what has changed over the past 24 hours. So let me clarify:
1) No change of heart? No – Putin did the right thing by waiting as long as was possible. I just don’t believe that waiting is possible any more. Why not?
2) What has changed? Not just words, but actions by Poroshenko. I, along with many other observers in Russia, had hopes that Poroshenko would use his “clean hands status” to come up with at least a temporary cease-fire followed by negotiations. Heck – even a 48 hour break to “celebrate” his “election” would have been helpful. All that happened was a dramatic increase in violence. Also, Merkel did specifically ask for a meeting with Putin and I had some hopes that the bitch has something useful to say to him. But the EU leaders did, again, show that as soon as Uncle Shmuel shows up they turn into the “great supine protoplasmic invertebrate jellies”.
Finally, Poroshenko did more than just spew some garden variety Ukie nonsense. He specifically committed himself to one language, no federation, no negotiations (at least not with those folks who matter) and he topped it all with a completely surreal statement about the Crimea being forever Ukie. Ok, these are not just words, the man cornered himself into a crazy, maximalist position. Some ask what I was expecting and say add that Poroshenko had no other options. Nonsense! He could have said something along these lines:
The blood of the glorious Ukrainian people is sacred to me and my first duty is to prevent it from being spilled (= stop the shelling). I shall never rest until each and every Ukrainian will feel that he/she is a precious part of an inclusive Ukrainian society whose historical roots have always been diverse and multi-national (language issue). The Ukraine must forever become a land of peace and peaceful trade (= neutrality). There is no personal sacrifice I shall not consent to achieve these lofty goals (= negotiate with the Novorossians). Etc. etc. etc.
Guys, this is not that hard. Not to mention that NOW would have been the correct time to get rid of the Nazis while the “eyes of the world” were upon the “legitimate President of the Ukraine”.
Poroshenko totally blew it. Totally.
And not because he is dumb. All those who know him agree on two things: he is a total prostitute and he is very smart. In this case, he was simply reading the speech written for him by Uncle Shmuel.
So that is what changed:
a) a total collapse and surrender by the EU 1%ers
b) a total sellout of Poroshenko to Uncle Shmuel
And this is why I see no point in waiting any longer. That, and the fact that if time is on Russia’s side (which it is – Banderastan is not viable), time is not on the side of the people of Novorossia who need help now.
So no, no change of heart. Change in objective circumstances. Remember dialectics 101: a quantitative change does eventually result in a qualitative change. I think that we have reached this point now.
As for my fear, it is primarily triggered by what I perceive as a “wishy-washy” tone out of Moscow. If that tone is designed to allow for a last ditch effort (I hear that Poroshenko has now announced that combats should stop this week) or for a cover for an intervention – fine. But something needs to be done in the next 24-48 hours and my Bosnian experience makes it very hard for me to live through these next couple of days.
Last, and frankly: I want the Polite Armed Men in Green to make minced meat of the Ukie Nazis involved in this disgusting war on civilians. These SOBs don’t deserve to live, imnsho.
I hope that I have explained myself to the satisfaction of at least most of you.
Kind regards,
The Saker
Totally agree with you re Poroshenko–just as the devil is in the details so the heart is in the nuances and this Neocon Nazi was crystal clear in what he is all about. That speech was for the consumption of his Masters–most people in the Ukraine don’t want to kill their fellow citizens in a nasty drawn out or even short, brutal civil war. From the day after his inauguration there is blood on his hands. Note carefully Putin’s nuances and the details in his speeches. He is no fool and realizes that an all out war on Donbass is ipso facto a war on Russia–thus the Corporate media’s insistence on calling the insurgences pro-russians rather than Russian speaking Ukrainians which is what they are. No, the US military hard liners have bigger fish to fry ( not Carpathian trout this time).
Watching Putin during the G7 meet was fascinating. His smile when Obama ignored him said a lot. Him standing alone when the others were all bonhomie with each other was an insult. Yet he was patient, and met with them later. Patience ensures success.
I think Putin knows what he’s doing. And what he’s doing May not be right for the present, but may be good for the future.
I know this is a bad example, especially since people are dying, but if you have gangrene in a limb you don’t sacrifice the whole body.
Let me give another example. When Mughniyah was assassinated, Nasrallah did not attack Israel, he told them we will reply in our own way in a time and place of our choosing.
I think you need to wait and watch, and inform.
I don’t think the future of the planet is being decided in Novorossia. It’s one page of history, one cruel, tragic, bloody page of history in the making.
Mindfriedo
Hail Mother Russia – the last front against American imperialism, NATO expansionism, Globalism, Zionism, Islamic fundamentalism and pan-Turkism.
Dear Saker,
Za vrijeme Austrije je bio neki Austrijanac po imenu Ludwig Gay
kojeg su Hrvati prekrstili u Ljudevid Gaj.
On je vidio da u austrijskom carstvu [ ono sto je danas Hrvatska ] zivi neki slavenski narod pa mu je dao identitet ” Iliri ” svrha je bila sprijeciti da se to stanovnistvo identificira s Rusijom.
U ono vrijeme Austrija je granicila s Rusijom i to identificiranje s Rusijom je Austrijancima bila prijetnja.
Slicno su Britanci napravili u JAR dali su crncima neke identitete kao sto su
Tsonga, Sotho, Tswana…
Britanci su im dali i alfabet, jezik, simbole, himnu, identitet.
Sto ces vise !!!
Crnci su im na to odgovorili s uzdignutim kaziprstom.
“Pametni” politicari su dali Makedoncima neki identitet da ne bi gravitirali prema Rusiji – danas imaju identitet, nezaposlenost, zaostalost i uce strane jezike, ne mogu emigrirati nigdje i ne znaju ni sto znaci proizvesti ni vlak, ni auto, ni avion, ni brod, uz to su samo dno dna Europe.
Ali imaju identitet, sto ces vise od toga !!!
Another way of thinking, This is midterm election year in US, democrats are not doing well at all. So Obama is trying to trying to help, going after Russia and Syria is his method of choice.
I really think Moscow is over thinking all this stuff, and not going to act. But it seems at least started fighting back with law suits, nationalization, and threat of gas cut. But is is not enough, should tell eu, stop bombing, or no gas. I really can not get over with it, for all those months, its people was been killed, and it still sending over free gas. I would try them as accessory to crime.
Back when Russia began its annexation of Crimea in late February, I recognized the need for Russia to continue expanding its re-absorption of Ukrainian territory to secure it’s long-term security. I figured it would take at least fifteen years. While I admit the day-to-day behavior of the Kiev Junta makes me sick, I’ve come around that my initial gut analysis is correct. That Saker was right as well in his belief Putin needed to wait for things to fall into place.
You have to understand something that that is the cornerstone of this crisis: Birth and Death rates. Ukraine is dying; Russia is springing back to life. I advise you to look at the following sources:
http://zemfort1983.livejournal.com/ (In Russian, he gives up to the moment updates about Russian demographics, very useful. He’s also quite vocal about Russia’s need to intervene in the Ukraine, but that’s not the reason I read his blog.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Russia (For a basic overview of trends.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Ukraine
Thanks to fourteen years of hard work, Putin has created a society where Russians feel confident about having children again. And those children will live longer, healthier lives than any generation since the Brezhnev era. In fact, as current trends seem to be going, Russian life expectancy will match other European countries in this generation. That is a remarkable turnaround from the disaster in the late 90’s.
Ukraine on the other hand is rapidly depopulating, from both natural attrition and emigration. Is it any surprise that the most bellicose region of Ukraine is the West, where the birthrates are the highest? They think they are the future of the country, and the campaign in the East can be seen as a logical extension of this confidence, misplaced as it is.
Meanwhile the Eastern regions are the hardest hit by the demographic bomb despite having the lion’s share of the nation’s industry and resources. But they were passive in their own dispossession until two months ago, and many are still sitting around waiting for a new generation of Russian youths to be maimed and killed solving the problems they were too timid to confront when there was still time to do so. Why must the Russian Federation immediately throw away its gains for a people who shunned them twenty-three years ago? Who overwhelming went along with Kravchuk’s foolish plan to separate Ukraine from Russia without any consideration of what that might lead to?
Just when things are starting to get better for Russia, Putin is faced the stark choice of plunging his people into war. He’s fought two since coming to power, but this one would dwarf them and threaten everything he has worked for. More than 146 million Russian lives hang in the balance here, Putin cannot be rash. If anything I have come to respect him more because he has shown himself the complete opposite of the impulsive warmonger his foes in Washington accuse him of being. That is because I feel that if he acts openly, it is going to be all the way. He will not stop at the Dnieper, or Odessa. He will take Ukraine whole and start from scratch in rebuilding it so that this bloody farce the Banderites have created can never reemerge.
The battle over Ukraine is only a little over three months old. This is going to be a long war, with a lot of missteps, and its easy to get caught up in the moment. But Russia cannot rush this. The Ukrainians, and that includes the Easterners, have royally screwed up their country, and those among them that want the Russian Federation to intervene are going to have to accept that assistance on Russia’s terms, no theirs. That means working on Russia’s time table, not Novorossiya. I have a lot of faith in the Donbass militia anyway, they are day by day proving they have what it takes to hold on. This is not Bosnia part deux, but it will require strong nerves for those who wish to see the right thing done.
Thanks a lot for your sober, sombre, reasonable words. They make a lot of sense to me, viewing this hellish tragedy and treachery from a distance without such grievous experience as Saker made with Bosnia.
Saker himself only recently analyzed that Putin is purposeful, concentrated, and ruthlessly rational. He is strategically effective, without minding huge body-counts of victims (Chechens, e.g.). Some people, including around me in the West, (mis!)interpret this mindset as a sign of Putin being in league with the West or (at least) an adamant Machiavellian even worse than Western leaders are (okay, being a Machiavellian is still a different thing from a total pervert and Satan-worshipping bag of human flesh …, in my opinion, so technically these heart-bleeding Putin critics might be right)
Saker, with all due respect, I propose that Grieved is for this time catching more of the light and your “change of heart” in evaluating the situation arouses from your horror to see the body-count, this time, among innocent Russians and the whole war approaching somewhat over the (hithertoo huge gap) towards ww2-dimensions.
Or towards the Syrian toll of suffering, which still is not completed even now. … Maybe it’s nice for me as a German to write this, but then (a) we might have our share of sufferings right ahead of us in the not so distant future with these ilk of “leaders” we have, and (b) after all, we’re all (Syrians, Russians, good-willing Chechens, the German minority disgusted with the empire, the Jewish crowds of individuals refusing to bow down to both Zionazis or Rabbis-smarter-than-God) in the same boat of humans against Satanists.
God, have mercy on us!
Thanks a lot for your sober, sombre, reasonable words. They make a lot of sense to me, viewing this hellish tragedy and treachery from a distance without such grievous experience as Saker made with Bosnia.
Saker himself only recently analyzed that Putin is purposeful, concentrated, and ruthlessly rational. He is strategically effective, without minding huge body-counts of victims (Chechens, e.g.). Some people, including around me in the West, (mis!)interpret this mindset as a sign of Putin being in league with the West or (at least) an adamant Machiavellian even worse than Western leaders are (okay, being a Machiavellian is still a different thing from a total pervert and Satan-worshipping bag of human flesh …, in my opinion, so technically these heart-bleeding Putin critics might be right)
Saker, with all due respect, I propose that Grieved is for this time catching more of the light and your “change of heart” in evaluating the situation arouses from your horror to see the body-count, this time, among innocent Russians and the whole war approaching somewhat over the (hithertoo huge gap) towards ww2-dimensions.
Or towards the Syrian toll of suffering, which still is not completed even now. … Maybe it’s nice for me as a German to write this, but then (a) we might have our share of sufferings right ahead of us in the not so distant future with these ilk of “leaders” we have, and (b) after all, we’re all (Syrians, Russians, good-willing Chechens, the German minority disgusted with the empire, the Jewish crowds of individuals refusing to bow down to both Zionazis or Rabbis-smarter-than-God) in the same boat of humans against Satanists.
God, have mercy on us!
Thanks a lot for your sober, sombre, reasonable words. They make a lot of sense to me, viewing this hellish tragedy and treachery from a distance without such grievous experience as Saker made with Bosnia.
Saker himself only recently analyzed that Putin is purposeful, concentrated, and ruthlessly rational. He is strategically effective, without minding huge body-counts of victims (Chechens, e.g.). Some people, including around me in the West, (mis!)interpret this mindset as a sign of Putin being in league with the West or (at least) an adamant Machiavellian even worse than Western leaders are (okay, being a Machiavellian is still a different thing from a total pervert and Satan-worshipping bag of human flesh …, in my opinion, so technically these heart-bleeding Putin critics might be right)
Saker, with all due respect, I propose that Grieved is for this time catching more of the light and your “change of heart” in evaluating the situation arouses from your horror to see the body-count, this time, among innocent Russians and the whole war approaching somewhat over the (hithertoo huge gap) towards ww2-dimensions.
Or towards the Syrian toll of suffering, which still is not completed even now. … Maybe it’s nice for me as a German to write this, but then (a) we might have our share of sufferings right ahead of us in the not so distant future with these ilk of “leaders” we have, and (b) after all, we’re all (Syrians, Russians, good-willing Chechens, the German minority disgusted with the empire, the Jewish crowds of individuals refusing to bow down to both Zionazis or Rabbis-smarter-than-God) in the same boat of humans against Satanists.
God, have mercy on us!
James,
Maybe you could agree with that this one from Counterpunch names the names ?
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/06/06/washingtons-iron-curtain-in-ukraine/
Here is a swedish interview with Sergej Markov, “close to Putin”, saying that if Kiev doesnt stop Russia will have to send men and weapons:
http://www.svd.se/nyheter/utrikes/putins-man-varnar-for-svenskt-rysshat_3640114.svd?sidan=1
Saker get back on your positive track! Suggest you publish this article in todays London Financial Times.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a5829d60-ed48-11e3-8a1e-00144feabdc0.html?ftcamp=crm/email/201468/nbe/InTodaysFT/product#axzz347jiCopm
Best wishes
To the saker, I invite you commentary on the idea as well as the details below.
A war that is more than Geo-Politics.
Perhaps a review is in order to gain a better perspective of the motives and issues driving this war, and as a result the steps necessary to see resolution.
For more than a decade Russia has been providing gas to Ukraine at a substantial discount in order to buy it’s loyalty. But that benefit, in large measure , did not go to Ukrainians. In addition to the outright theft of trams-shipments destined for Europe, each of the Oligarchs had their turn at the trough making arrangements to siphon off Ukrainian supplies, then re-sell them in Europe at market rates, clearing anywhere up to 1 billion dollars a year that went directly into the pockets of the Oligarchs.
In short, Russia and the West looked the other way as this corruption created a monster that fed off of the Russian supply of gas. When Russia threatened to shut down this parasitic behaviour, the Oligarchs turned to the EU and used the threat of association to force a deal with Putin.
Should anyone think that the supply of natural gas to Europe is not a big issue, perhaps it would be good to remember it was a pipeline through Syria that would bring Iranian gas to Europe that led to the ongoing war which has reduced huge parts of the country to rubble and taken more than 100,000 lives. Ironically, that pipeline, if it had been allowed to come into existence, would be just the key that would set Europe free to spurn Russian gas and impose sanctions that would really hurt. At this point the West appears to have shot itself in the foot. However, they are not the only ones with bad aim.
When Putin agreed to the 13 billion dollar aid package that caused Yanukovich to spurn the EU and turn back to Russia, it was a deal that would have seen up to 25% of that money go to enrich just one of the Oligarchal families. How so? The long term contract included discounts of up to 40%. With Ukraine bringing in Western fracking companies, Ukrainian gas production (from the Donbass)would increase freeing up discounted Russian gas which could then be flipped into the European market at a huge profit. This led to an Oligarchal war in which, with CIA help, they mobilized the population. In reality the people just wanted to be free of the corruption and those that made it possible – the Oligarchs and their Russian backers.
The key question on the ground is why have the majority of ethnic Russians in the Donbass NOT signed on to fight for the protection of a threat to their language and ethnic existence? I believe that even under the threat of loosing their language rights, people of the Donbass have not signed on to fight because they simply see this as an extension of the Oligarchal war. Why should they die for one family to gain another billion? This perception is rooted in the 13 billion bailout that Russia proposed, a bailout of Oligarchs in which Putin too, shot himself in the foot.
The people of the Donbass do not see this as a fight for their ethnic existence. They see it as a fight to enable one set of Oligarchs over another. While the Oligarchs fight, Lavrov is in Qatar working to set up an OPEC style Natural Gas Cartel that would set production, prices and quotas for the world’s largest producers of Natural Gas.
Right now Putin is facing off against both Obama/Nato and the Oligarchs. The key to ending the war lies with the Oligarchs that are funding the mercenary armies. Without them Western political plots are worthless. The dilemma is that buying them off only exacerbates the problem.
Does Putin have enough “cred” in the Donbass that people will trust him to set them free of the Oligarchs and their corruption? Could Putin actually achieve that even if he tried?
Your comments?
“I hear that Poroshenko has now announced that combats should stop this week”
Ah, what would Putin’s first move be?
He would communicate directly with Poroshenko and say the following:
“You can dish it out Poro, but I don’t think you can take it. Change your tune, or we are coming to get you.”
Putin would start with Poro.
Merciful Heaven. Saker. Your mind is beautiful. After that stupefying Roman evening show, now all I need is for the just good God to dump a safe load of grace on that porkine Pope, Francis the expletive deleted First.
Don’t know what is in the mind of Putin. He is demonstrating an amazing ability to stay focused and undistracted by public opinion and to do right things staying in power for a long time. Great stamina and patience and by now also a lot of experience. Quite possible he knows better than anybody how to proceed.
I’m (certainly naivly) thinking that Russia could possible do following:
Suggest escape to Russia to folks who feel being threated in Ukraine. Put a really big effort there. Then let those who choose to stay bear the consenquences of their own decision. Let the Ukraine as a whole reap the consenquences of allying with West. Let the West go to hell avoiding direct war with it.
Receiving refuges will cost a lot, but probably a lot less than fighting anyway.
We (as a family) certainly trying to convince our relatives from Donetskaya oblast to come to live with us in Russia. They do not feel it is needed (yet). But it is their own choice. I can not imagine myself participating in their local mess. This is really, really their own problem. They should grow up as nation themselves.
Think Meezer above nailed it. After all this the vast majority of the Eastern Ukraine is *still* sitting on its butt and hoping someone else will come and save it. Even now, a Russian intervention is *exactly* what the West wants.
Russia, as you Saker said, is a chess player; it plays the long game. The US is putting more and more resources in trying to lure Russia into a war, but at the same time is losing more and more in the eyes of the public opinion and financial stability.
Direct intervention is not an option, no more than it was a couple of weeks ago (sure Russia is not Serbia; you can bet the very moment Putin gives the order, you’ll see high-ranking officials of Banderastan dropping like flies in “accidents” and neither Ukies nor US could do anything to prevent that). Safest course, I think, is to keep doing what it’s been done: play the waiting game, “dropping” weapons and ammo, and driving wedges between the EU quislings and their US handlers *and* between the Euro people and the EU leadership.
(Finally, speaking of Poroshenko, I’d not give much credit to whatever he says; as you (Saker) yourself said, he’s a political prostitute, right now he’s doing what the US told him to just because the US pays him enough, but you can bet he’s still haggling with Putin behind the scenes to get as much profit as he can from both parties. That also means that Putin can simply buy him whenever he wants. Remember that joke posted some time ago, that one about Putin thinking the Ukie junta were FSB agents destabilizing Ukraine on his behalf: chaos and war crimes by the Banderists actually work in Russia’s favor, and as a reader said some time ago, if you come in with tanks after three days of fighting, you’re an invader; you come in with tanks after three *months* of slaughter, you’re a liberator.
The Dayton Accords in Bosnia largely ratified the situation on the ground did they not? The Bosnian Serbs did not lose much in the way of territory despite lack of support from Belgrade.
Milosevic’s opportunism had far greater consequences in Krajina, Croatia where the Serbs were driven out.
The Bosnian Muslims did not have the military force to win their war, even with NATO air support. The Croats, with retired US military advisors guiding them, did put together a motivated and capable army and that made all the difference.
How is the Kiev government more capable of assembling the military force to crush the rebellion in Novorussiya now then it was a few weeks before? So far, the Kiev forces have been trying to terrorize Novorussiya into submission, they have shown no appetite for conquering the rebel areas. Why would that change now?
With great patience, and personal humiliation from the western presstitutes, Putin has gone the whole diplomacy route. Unlike the shoot-first-ask-questions-later US, he knows that war must be the last resort. However, once there is no alternative, he will be pyschologically prepared to go the whole way if necessary. He knows plans fall apart once the first shot is fired and outcomes are unpredictable.
Putin has the fate of the world on his shoulders. The poor people of Novorossiya are the pawns selected by the global terror state as means of bringing down Russia. Should Russia fall, China knows it is next.
This is what readers of this blog can do.
What has to happen is that the indiscriminate shelling of civilians has to make it into the European press.
Write The Guardian, Le Monde, whoever, and ask why they are not covering genocide in Eastern Ukraine?
Now.
Hello Saker,
Here my blog with a lot of attention to the Ukraine and a slightly more optimistic long-term view:
http://deepresource.wordpress.com/2014/06/09/mccain-visits-bulgaria/
Kind regards,
Dutch
Antecedent of Poroshenko:
Kosovo
http://atimes.com/atimes/World/WOR-01-090614.html
Hi Saker an interesting article. It might unfortunatly give an explanation for the passivity of Russia. I feel sorry for the people of Novorussia, hope they will not be “sold out”. I sitill believe the ukranian experiment will collapse regardless.
Dear Saker,
you are an excellent observer of the events. But that is exactly your problem. As an observer you bind your hopes in Putin’s actions and not in your owns, not in ours. The best way to support Donbass is to form resistance overall. That is what you miss completely. You write about every sentence of the puppet Merkel to show what is going in Germany, but not a silbe about the Monday Demonstrations in Germany, which are meanwhile a effective factor in German political life, which are denonciated from all the presstitute. Exactly that is, what we schould do. Shwoing the resistance and forming it overall.
Only in case, we can strenghten such movements, we can build even international brigades to fight in Donbass against this fasco-olgarchic capitalism. we can hope for a besser future for donbass and for the world.
Porochenko must be given time to hang himself. To invade Novorossiya at this time is unwise, I think. That is exactly what the West wants. There are several things that have to play themselves out. The Ukrainian economy is on the edge. It must be allowed to go over. The economic austerity plan has not yet bitten. The Ukrainians must feel that before progress can be made. The economic side effects of the EU Economic agreement must be felt first – that trade with Russia will become almost impossible under the terms of the EU agreement. And I hate to say it, but the Banderistas must make a complete mess of the East before military action on the part of the Russians is justified.
This is a huge step for Putin. We must give him every benefit of a doubt. Hist history at strategy is near legendary. We need to trust him to act when the fullness of time is there, when the opportunity is greatest. In the meantime Russia must be clearly seen by the entire world to be pushing hard for a negotiated peace – Only after all efforts have been exhausted can Putin act. Even then Russia will face a firestorm of outrage from the West. But at least they will have the right history behind them.
I am not yet convinced, however, that intervention will be necessary. Tymoschenko’s ruling party is dead set against Poroschenko. The neo-Nazis are against everyone and at this time only tolerate the present government for practical reasons. In a short time all factions will be fighting each other as Ukraine implodes. We must assume Putin knows that, and that he is playing for time and keeping a clean appearance in front of the world as this happens.
Poroschenko just took power. We now know for certain where he stands thanks to his inaugural speech. Novorossiya has a tough battle in front of them. But let’s not forget Putin’s warning to Poroschenko to the effect that ‘Words are cheap. It is action that will be judged’. This warning has to have time to work itself out.
But not before much blood and pain.
Interesting sidenote:
Nulands “real name” is Nudelman
” In the history of the Nudelman family, the name change was initiated by Shepsel Ber Nudelman (Sherwin B. Nuland, Victoria’s father), “
http://johnhelmer.net/?p=10902
(Interesting article btw about how the crisis in ukraine influences the us-election)
Think strategically, not sentimentally. Ukraine is an interest but not a responsibility or vital necessity for Russia.
Putin is safeguarding Russia’s core interests. Notice how swiftly he completed the gas deal with China, even if he had to make concessions on price to do so. It will take a couple of years at least to move away from dependence on the dollar and western banking and develop compensatory economic ties to India, Iran, China etc.
The American and EU economies are weak. In a couple of years they are likely to be weaker. It is not in Russia’s interests to precipitate a collapse which would also damage Russia and which might lead to even crazier actions from the rabid dogs in Washington.
The Russians, like the Americans, can fight to the last Ukrainian. Russia needs to control it’s border with Ukraine to prevent the American/Ukrainian forces from having any excuse for drone strikes or hot pursuit into Russia proper.
Ukraine is likely to soon become a basket case, a failed state which neither the USA nor the EU can do much to help. It may develop it’s own factions and problems without much interference from Russia, somewhat like Afghanistan.
It is not in Russia’s interest to get drawn deeply into this quagmire. That would be sentimental and endanger Russia’s greater interests.
Those who are resisting in the Eastern Ukraine may be able to continue with relative success, with only a little help from their friends, or they may become another guerrilla war in another devastated landscape. Lots of them may die, that’s unfortunate. Fewer might perish if more had been willing to make a break earlier. It isn’t sensible to expect Russia to sacrifice it’s own vital interests to do more for them than they were willing to do for themselves.
If Putin and his successors stick to the traditional Russian defensive strategy of exchanging space and lives for time, they are likely to win, but it will be tough for the Ukrainians.
There is some group on facebook in the Czech republic, which is trying to gather volunteers with army experience in order to help “the russian patriots in their fight against ukrainian bandits”
I have every faith that Novorossiya will have a bright future under the assumption that president Putin has a plan to intervene. His inaction (especially after Odessa) would probably have been because Russia had hoped the atrocities would cause mass outrage, thus spreading Novorossiya fever outside of the two regions it is confined to currently. I’d imagine Russia has underestimated the power of the Ukrainian media coupled with the Right Guard who have effective military headquarters in most southern and eastern Ukrainian cities.
To add to that, in a military sense, Ukraine is much more difficult to deal with than Georgia was in 2008. One cannot invade a country without making a long term strategy and having the confidence that they’ll win. In this regard, Russia probably has formulated some form of plan and may well be implementing final measures when it feels it is the best time.
If intervention does not occur, expect a shitstorm when Nato troops are invited to Ukraine this summer (why hasn’t this been cancelled??!!). The war dogs are itching for Russia’s resources, the grand prize (after the entire subjugation of Russia) would deprive China of the resources needed to maintain her future superpower role. So it would be in both Russian and Chinese interest for an intervention, not only to prevent a Maidan in Moscow, but to save both nations from the so-called benign hegemon which is bleeding this planet dry.
All you guys taking Putin for a weakling at best, for a Pro-AngloZionist in sheep’s clothing at worst just because he’s not immediately declaring any AngloZionist controlled entity a sworn enemy, suffer from some of the following fallacies in politics (and business and other relations as well):
* There is one morally right way, and I happen to (be the only one in the world to) know it
– Do you have the same access to non-public information such as countries’ leaders do?
* The morally right way has to be declared openly, and then acted upon – it’s a question of principle
– Pronouncing the morally right way by itself can amount to a threat, e.g. against Poroshenko, which would force him to prove he can’t be threatened, and more often than not leads to “now more than ever” reactions – the opposite of what you intended
– What if the morally right way saves a couple of lives immmediately, but triggering bigger events that costs magnitudes more lives later on? Have you really about the possible consequences down the road?
– (Just as an) example: World opinion really turns against Putin, Russia can’t sell her energy any more, crashses economically, Putin gets overthrown
– Re: world opinion: It might take time (pluse a channel like RT) to get the world to understand and appreciate what’s really going on there, before they’d understand that what Putin or whoever announces is actually morally right
– Sometimes deceit, i.e. saying the opposite of what you really believe or intend to do – is the tactical means to use in order to achieve your goal, and do it with the least amount of bloodletting
* Joining unions/partnerships/organizations (e.g. WTO) dominated by AngloZionists, and used by same to dominate the world, is morally wrong
– Building trust with foreign investors has certainly already paid economically, and might have created momentum beyond potential future withdrawal from that club (like whetted appetite, or contracts that would need to be broken, see France ships, Exxon contracts etc)
– Not telling the AngloZionists that you hate and want to overturn their rule will give you the time needed to build up your economy and military to go the morally right way, otherwise you’ll get crushed before you are ready
To consider
* Putin significantly reduced pro-AngloZionist influence of oligarchs
– remember Chodorkovsky? or Berezovsky – the oligarch who made Putin president?
* Putin did not “enable” Libya, that was Medvedev
– and Russia can’t protect every country around the world, although vetoing the (afterwards heavily abused) UNSC resolution would have been nice, not forgetting that it always incurs a political cost
* Putin did not “enable” Iranian sanctions, that was Medvedev
– and besides, economically speaking, Iran is a competitor, so Medvedev (and now again Putin) might be thinking selfishly for their own country
* Putin supported Syria more than any other (non-Shia) leader in the world
– and now they are winning, without Russia being painted as a Hitler (not for this one at least)
* Ukraine is much, much, much closer to Russia Putin, both geographically and politically, than Syria
– so why would he cave in willy-nilly when he stood by a questionable ally such as Assad
Honk
Honk continued:
That said, and giving Putin the benefit of the doubt, as far as I can tell, Putin is unfortunately not a radical at heart – in contrast to e.g. Chavez. He’s just doing all the things for his people that Western countries’ leaders are only claiming to do: Protecting them and trying to improve the economy in a way that everyone benefits.
When it comes to East Ukraine, I agree with those commenters suggesting Putin might have more options than the binary “close his eyes” vs. “overt military operation”. Besides covert support, let’s not forget gas, which even Naziyuk publicly acknowledged Ukraine can’t do without. That and he might need some more of RT’s time to make the world appreciate the monstrosities of the Nazi-enabled and now partly publicly elected putsch government. Also, people might be asking: Why now? What changed? So maybe he is waiting for a well-publicized “Odessa reloaded” or something to then say: ‘nough’s enough!
Honk
Hi Saker,
I would love to see an analysis of OSCE’s involvement in this crisis. My feeling is that Didier Burkhalter is as sold out as Merkel or Hollande. What do you think?
Thanks much in advance.
Chew Siew Meng asks: ” Is the Russian Ambassador to the UN tabling reports on the atrocities committed by the Ukies against the people of Eastern Ukraine and is Lavrov giving press conference on the same, while hinting that Russia will not stand by ? At least these steps should be carried out before any military intervention. But I do not see that this is happening.
Even Rt.com and the Voice of Russia has toned down their reports and criticisms. This is a bad sign.”
I am loath to close. We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory, stretching from every battlefield and patriot grave to every living heart and hearthstone all over this broad land, will yet swell the chorus of the Union, when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.
–– Abraham Lincoln, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1861.
This is the problem:
The NATO bombing of Yugoslavia was NATO’s military operation against the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia during the Kosovo War. The operation was not authorised by the United Nations and was the first time that NATO used military force without the approval of the UN Security Council and against a sovereign nation that did not pose a threat to members of the alliance.
It is no accident that Obama posed in front of a Polish F-15 with the Polish Puppet.
What is positively miraculous is that Putin annexed Crimea with Russian troops (and God was he nervous about the fact they were Russian troops!) and didn’t get bombed by NATO.
If a single Russian soldier in uniform crosses the border into Ukraine, NATO will immediately bomb that Russian soldier into the stone age. There will probably be an air war between NATO and Russia immediately. It doesn’t end well.
Putin must support East Ukraine in disguise. What he can do to threaten Poroshenko personally I leave to your imagination.
Dear Saker,
The poster named Cicero made an excellent point. Why would Putin impulsively throw away the gains made by Russia, under his leadership, over the past 14 years, to pull the chestnuts out of the fire for people that were either happy, or at the very least very passive, when they disassociated and distanced themselves from the Russian Federation back in the days of Leonid Kravchuk, at the time of the dissolution of the Soviet Union? My Siberian wife, who is 100% a Russian patriot, not to say an outright nationalist, is of the very same opinion. While she abhors the Kiev regime, she is appalled by the notion that Russian troops could be sent to fight a war in the Ukraine. She doesn’t want Russia to be saddled with any part of the Ukraine, whether East or West, and she is well aware that the Ukraine is a huge black hole for anyone that either owns it or controls it. So I think that Putin also has to take into consideration the opinions of many other Russians just like her. The man is not a dictator a la Hitler or Mussolini, contrary to what Hillary stridently maintains, and he has to take into consideration Russian public opinion which is far from being monolithic on the topic of Ukraine.
Quietly and steadily feeding and assisting the resistance movement underway in the Ukraine is probably the most cost effective way for Russia to disrupt the plans of the Ukie nationalists and their American puppet masters.
You keep ranting about uncle Shmuel, but perhaps you could direct some of your venom at Uncle Zbig , who to my knowledge is no great friend to the Zionists, and seems most times quite irritated with their antics.
All the best,
American Russophile
Have just seen a report on aljazeera news channel that doesnt bode well for the future. Apparently kiev is now accepting all sorts of neo nazi fascists from all over Europe as volunteers to be incorporated into the “national guard” and a newly created unit called the azov unit. They come from Italy, Sweden, Germany, the french foreign legion and there was even one from Russia, with the one thing they all have in common being hardcore die hard neo nazis and fascists willing to fight for the junta I kiev. I dont know how this new development is going to play out and I was even surprised that aljazeera broke with the common narrative of western MSM to report it.
Al Jazeera has broken from the rest of the MSM since early last week, we’ve informed Saker about this, but for some reason he hasn’t understood it. It has to do with the fact that the Qatari elite appear to by at loggerheads with the US over their plan to flood the Gas market as well as the US undermining Qatar’s Muslim Brotherhood client group in Egypt.
For over a week Al Jazeera’s on-site correspondent, David Chater, has been filing reports showing the atrocities imposed on Eastern Ukraine, terming them clear violations of the Geneva conventions.
Good picture: PNAC Project for a New American Century War Plan Map
As I said:
The US Air Force has sent more of its bombers to Europe, deploying two B-2 stealth aircraft as part of a military exercise. On Sunday they joined three B-52 StratoFortress bombers already deployed in Britain.
All the visiting American aircraft are stationed at RAF Fairford, a British air base west of London.
“This deployment of strategic bombers provides an invaluable opportunity to strengthen and improve interoperability with our allies and partners,” said Adm. Cecil Haney, commander, US Strategic Command in a USAF statement. “The training and integration of strategic forces demonstrates to our nation’s leaders and our allies that we have the right mix of aircraft and expertise to respond to a variety of potential threats and situations.”
Putin can do what he is currently doing–which we have no knowledge of–and no more.
All the business about strengthening the borders and such like is complete horse shit. Putin is doing everything he can to destroy the Nazi’s.
Oh, and the Russian press.
Think about this, Saker. Think about it. Or, perhaps you’ve already thought about it. Hmmmm.
In any case, if you were Putin, what would you want the Russian press to do?
Well, you would obviously want the Russian Press to scream bloody murder that you were doing nothing. Isn’t that what you would want the Russian Press to do? If anything, they’re not screaming loudly enough.
“Through indirection seek direction out.”
All is well. Vladimir Vladimirovitch has not lost a trick. All those pretty F-15’s in Polish hangers with no place to go. A completely supine and lordotic American President without the excuse to bomb. Why, it’s enough to make a grown man cry.
“As Vella Gulf transited the Bosporous the Pentagon or White House called the Kremlin and threatened a strategic nuclear first strike in the event of an invasion, followed up about 20 minutes with a thermonuclear volley if necessary from the US mainland.”
How do you know that? And aren’t such threats made useless by MAD? I remember reading something about a Russian ship docking somewhere in the Caribbean during the Crimean crisis.
I’m assuming that the restraining influence of MAD is alive and well and that there is some other reason for Putin’s unwillingness to intervene in eastern Ukraine.
More context:
Ukraine, known as Europe’s bread basket, is the world’s second-biggest crop exporter, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture.
ULF has been seeking to expand abroad. In April the company signed an agreement with China CAMC Engineering Co., a state-owned infrastructure group, which will build a grain port, warehouses and meat-production centers in the eastern European country, financed by $4.1 billion in Chinese loans, according to an exchange filing by the Chinese company.
Ukraine’s currency, the hryvnia, has lost about 30 percent this year. The depreciation may benefit ULF because the crops the company sells are priced in dollars and its biggest costs including wages and fuel are in hryvnia, according to Pablo Mazzini, an analyst at Fitch in London.
War drives the hrynia down which makes the oligarchs richer. But it has to be just the right amount of war. Pure evil.
@ ALL
You know what? As I watch the youtube films, read the news from SE Ukraine it seems to sometimes that all your and mine wise analyses are worth a crock.
Any evaluation, worldly speculations, suggestions and good will are only shit on the wind.
The tragedy CAN be stopped with such a bang that once and for all no one will be dreaming about Greater Ukraine for the next 100 years.
I read a comment about us-Russian game in “chicken nukes” – who first show his tail. Pathetic. If one US cruiser with W80 would suffice to fully destroy RF what are the remaining ships for – to blackmail Europe or China or the World? If the US was so powerful they would used the damn one or two ships many years ago not bothering with Syria and then Ukraine, what for?
As far as I know only once Soviet back down – during Yom Kippur War when Nixon put Nuke Forces to highest alert. The US back down in 08.08.08 and 2013 close to Syria. But never before Russian troops were being totally withdrawn because of ONE ship! They stop sending their troops in 1973 but not withdrew them!
I do not believe in the push-pull games with nuke toys. There must be a third bottom to this. ;)
http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_06_09/Peace-settlement-in-southeastern-Ukraine-to-bear-fruit-in-days-Kremlin-7832/
This might explain why Russia is so defensive right now: they might try to give this a chance.
Andrew, if the US was willing to blackmail Russia with nukes over Donbass, why not over the Crimea? You’d think NATO would have loved to evict the Russian Black Sea Fleet. The coup-installed government wouldn’t have renewed its lease. Putin saved the fleet by annexing the Crimea. Why did NATO let him do it if it could have blackmailed him with nukes back then?
As I said before, I’m assuming that MAD prevents any such blackmail.
Dear Saker,
Here is FM3-24 presumably meant for Ukraine released in May by HQ Department of the Army “Insurgencies and Countering Insurgencies”. I haven’t much patience to wade through entire docs like this but I notice that they acknowledge GENEVA CONVENTION, COMMON ARTICLE 3:
http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-24.pdf
NON-INTERNATIONAL ARMED CONFLICT
13-33. The full body of the law of war only applies during international armed conflict … During counterinsurgency operations, Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions applies. Commanders must be aware of Common Article 3, and the basic protections that must be afforded to insurgents or others captured by U.S. forces, as well as the status of insurgents under the laws of the host nation.
GENEVA CONVENTION, COMMON ARTICLE 3
13-34. Although insurgencies can occur within the context of an international armed conflict, they are classically conflicts between states and non-state actors that are considered to be non-international armed conflicts.
13-35. It bears emphasis, however, that one article contained in all four of the Geneva Conventions—Common Article 3—is specifically intended to apply to non-international armed conflicts. Common Article 3 affords significantly fewer protections to combatants fighting in a non-international armed conflict than does the full body of the law of war in an applicable international armed conflict. However, it does set a simple baseline of humane protection, along with fundamental rules that reflect the principles captured in the broader law of war.
13-36. Common Article 3 requires that in the case of armed conflict not of an international character (a non-international armed conflict) occurring in the territory of one of the high contracting parties to the Geneva Conventions, each party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, to six provisions of Common Article 3.
(1) Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, to include members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, color, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.
(2) To this end, the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons:
(a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;
(b) Taking of hostages;
(c) Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment;
(d) The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.
(3) The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for.
(4) An impartial humanitarian body, such as the International Committee of the Red Cross, may offer its services to the Parties to the conflict.
(5) The Parties to the conflict should further endeavor to bring into force, by means of special agreements, all or part of the other provisions of the present Convention.
(6) The application of the preceding provisions shall not affect the legal status of the Parties to the conflict.
Brian
Alright said…
James,
Maybe you could agree with that this one from Counterpunch names the names ?
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/06/06/washingtons-iron-curtain-in-ukraine/
Alright, I read the article and have no real argument with it. I’m not sure what your point is but I will make the following comments.
The article has a good history lesson to open with and close with. They are pretty succinct though I have to accept some statements on face value. In between those history ‘wrap-ups’ is a short analysis section.
The analysis is ok and names names as you say. But the author does not get to the ultimate drivers of the conflict nor their reasons for doing so. What you don’t read is about ‘bankers’ and ‘psychopaths’, for instance.
I have written a little about them recently here and here if you want to read more. And I will write more over the coming week.
I’m not alleging any deception in that article nor towards any individual Counterpunch author. Many authors are simply ignorant of how banking and psychopathy work. What I’m saying is that the Counterpunch site is like Democracy Now in that what is notable is mostly what is missing from the conversation and it can be a trap for those who read there regularly and think by doing so that they are well informed.
Of course, someone will now link to an article at CounterPunch that mentions bankers and declare me wrong!
It is not about CounterPunch or The Guardian or whatever. It is really about people who consider themselves as thoughtful being lured into thinking about the possibility of world war as if it were a parlour game called “Strategy” and completely missing the point of all the destruction and human suffering so that a handful of psychopaths can become ever richer and more powerful.
People are given reasons and because many don’t think it through to the point that they understand it (or not), they sail away thinking they know what is happening and why. When in fact they don’t understand it at all but do not appreciate that fact.
This is the same effect as brainwashing, btw.
The Russian Revoltion was a epoch making moment.
============================
Indeed! It was the most serious attempt ever made to destroy Russia.
Almost successful, but only almost. It’s for this that the Neo-Bolsheviks are trying again so hard.
Sometimes someone is so full of it that you can’t tell the difference anymore. The last Czar was the Rus’ personified, you BBIIIPPP!!!
A Russian communist who still worships Bolsheviks and their leaders (none of them was Russian and killed millions upon millions of Russians) is an idiot or is a liar (i.e. a Neo-Bolshevik)!
Tertium non datur!
Anonymous said…
“Andrew, if the US was willing to blackmail Russia with nukes over Donbass, why not over the Crimea? You’d think NATO would have loved to evict the Russian Black Sea Fleet. The coup-installed government wouldn’t have renewed its lease. Putin saved the fleet by annexing the Crimea. Why did NATO let him do it if it could have blackmailed him with nukes back then?”
Haha, Andrew and Hasbara, it was pretty obvious with his discussions with Nora.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
This is + or – an automatic translation. I hope it’s understandable.
We do not know whether Putin is a false leader, nor know the actual condition of Russia. We will see in the near future. But ..
1974 Kinshasa. Muhammad Ali against George Foreman.
Ali attacks immediately in the first round with the direct and not seriously damage Foreman, then dodged for the rest of the match, occasionally hits him in the face: the face of Foreman swells but nothing decisive. Ali was provoking the opponent challenging him … Foreman struck with violence and tired. Ali dodged. At the sixth round Foreman was tired, slow and with a swollen face.
In the eighth round a deadly right to the face closes the meeting.
I mean, why accept that the enemy (Uncle Shlomo) choose the desired field, the time, the way to fight?
A thousand small wounds bleed the animal to death.
A knife in the shadows kills like a 357 magnum.
Hunger kills.
The spider waits for the fly falling into the net …
When they run out of ammunition, the ukies who will do? When they runs out of gas, they will push the tanks?
The weapons used are found incidentally, Gazprom sells 90% of the gas out of the petrodollar … A thousand small cuts kill the beast. Uncle Shlomo officially gives lethal weapons to Syrian rebels: Russian weapons will also come, there is no alternative, and in the right hands.
Napoleon at the Battle of Austerlitz, when Joachim Murat offered him a cavalry charge against the Austro-Russians who were dividing their forces said that when the enemy is wrong, you must not interrupt him.
Here, I think this. Sorry for the length, but it is not my mother tongue and I do a lot of laps of words to explain what I think.
>>Andrew, if the US was willing to blackmail Russia with nukes over Donbass, why not over the Crimea? You’d think NATO would have loved to evict the Russian Black Sea Fleet. The coup-installed government wouldn’t have renewed its lease. Putin saved the fleet by annexing the Crimea. Why did NATO let him do it if it could have blackmailed him with nukes back then?
I guess the answer is that they did not expect Russia to act so quickly and boldly, so they simply missed the chance to threaten Putin before the action.
And to put up the threat now is too dangerous because it would put both parties into a corner from which there would be no way out.
You don’t do that to an enemy with nukes.
Andrew, are you just shocked by the Pope approaching Pentecost, the Trinity Sunday, by a so cool common prayer with Jews and Muslims or are you really saying that sending the Vella somewhere and threatening a strategic nuclear first strike is all that you need to get Russia’s obedience? No, it’s just that I’m wondering why Putin still has the Kremlin’s keys……
An interesting link about what is happening: http://yurasumy.livejournal.com/75526.html
Maybe you/we need to be a little bit more patient. Look at this:
http://reseauinternational.net/douma-veut-reconnaitre-les-actions-kiev-genocide/?utm_source=feedly&utm_reader=feedly&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=douma-veut-reconnaitre-les-actions-kiev-genocide
Dear Saker,
Could it be that the reluctance to join the armed resistance which Strelkov spoke of may pass now that it’s becoming impossible to think about keeping one’s head low and keeping the mines running and feeding the family? What are the signs for this sort of critical moment in historical resistance movements?
Maybe it’s time to drive the family to Rostov and return with a trunkload of gear.
Mao’s writings on guerrilla warfare seem to consider some of the issues.
http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/works/1937/guerrilla-warfare/
The following from third section – Guerrilla Warfare In History
After 18 September 1931, strong anti-Japanese guerrilla campaigns were opened in each of the three north-east provinces. Guerrilla activity persists there in spite of the cruelties and deceits practiced by the Japanese at the expense of the people, and in spite of the fact that her armies have occupied the land and oppressed the people for the last seven years. The struggle can be divided into two periods . During the first, which extended from 18 September 1931 to January 1933, anti-Japanese guerrilla activity exploded constantly in all three provinces. … They harassed the Japanese unceasingly, but because there was an indefinite political goal, improper leadership, failure to co ordinate military command and operations and to work with the people, and, finally, failure to delegate proper political functions to the army, the whole organization was feeble, and its strength was not unified. As a direct result of these conditions, the campaigns failed and the troops were finally defeated by our enemy.
During the second period, which has extended from January 1933 to the present time, the situation has greatly improved, This has come about because great numbers of people who have been oppressed by the enemy have decided to resist him, because of the participation of the Chinese Communists in the anti-Japanese warm and because of the fine work of the volunteer units. The guerrillas have finally educated the people to the meaning of guerrilla warfare, and in the north-east, it has again become an important and powerful influence. Already seven or eight guerrilla regiments and a number of independent platoons have been formed, and their activities make it necessary for the Japanese to send troops after them month after month. These units hamper the Japanese and undermine their control in the north-east, while, at the same time they inspire a Nationalist revolution in Korea. Such activities are not merely of transient and local importance but directly contribute to our ultimate victory.
However, there are still some weak points. For instance: National defence policy has not been sufficiently developed; participation of the people is not general; internal political organization is still in its primary stages, and the force used to attack the Japanese and the puppet governments is not yet sufficient. But if present policy is continued tenaciously, all these weaknesses will be overcome. Experience proves that guerrilla war will develop to even greater proportions and that, in spite of the cruelty of the Japanese and the many methods they have to cheat the people, they cannot extinguish guerrilla activities in the three north-eastern provinces.
Brian
“Ukraine launches dual talks with Russia to end fighting in east and avert gas cut
EU-mediated talks pose challenge to President Poroshenko’s commitment to Europe and vow to end deadly insurgency”
Re: “… the US sent USS Vella Gulf into the Black Sea. … armed with … W80 strategic nuclear warheads for surface ships on its up to 122 Tomahawk cruise missiles…, capable of the annihilating Russia in less than 10 minutes. Each W80 nuclear warhead can destroy a city like Smolensk or Rostov, and the missiles can reach Moscow and St. Petersburg.”
“… the Pentagon or White House called the Kremlin and threatened a strategic nuclear first strike in the event of an invasion, followed up about 20 minutes with a thermonuclear volley if necessary from the US mainland.”
If true, Tomahawks travel 550 mph, meaning an hour after launch would elapse before significant damage. Russia needs to warn the White house and Pentagon (where sanity might prevail) that any Tomahawk launch would be answered immediately by a total nuclear counterstrike: anti-force, anti-finance, anti-science/industry, anti-1% hangouts (Hamptons, Palm Beach, etc.).
[Living 20 miles north of the White House, I’d sit on my south-facing patio with wife and cats, open the great Tyrconnell Irish I’ve been saving, and raise one last toast to absent friends.]
Epistles Reading of Today
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.
12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret.
13 But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light.
14 Therefore He says: “Awake, you who sleep, Arise from the dead, And Christ will give you light.”
15 See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise,
16 redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
=================================
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.
11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;
==================================
Saint of today (Day Of the Holy Spirit): The Holy Confessor John the Russian, whose relics are on the island of Euboea (1730).
Former Putin economic advisor: Putin will be checkmated by NATO
http://www.interpretermag.com/nato-moves-not-economic-sanctions-behind-putins-tactical-shift-on-ukraine-illarionov-says/?utm_source=feedly&utm_reader=feedly&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=nato-moves-not-economic-sanctions-behind-putins-tactical-shift-on-ukraine-illarionov-says
Things are coming clear at last. The Banderistas want the land in the east cleared of Moskals. The incentive of ‘free’ property in the east for anyone from the west who helps out has been raised. So even if the easterners are not killed immediately, if they don’t fight for their property while they can, they will end up like Palestinians in Israel, facing increasing restrictions on movement and constant harassment.
Gayle said
Former Putin economic advisor: Putin will be checkmated by NATO
http://www.interpretermag.com/nato-moves-not-economic-sanctions-behind-putins-tactical-shift-on-ukraine-illarionov-says/?utm_source=feedly&utm_reader=feedly&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=nato-moves-not-economic-sanctions-behind-putins-tactical-shift-on-ukraine-illarionov-says
I think you would be well advised to check out who is behind a site like this before posting links to it. The “About Us” links are usually very informative.
If it is indeed true that Obumma threaten to nuke Russian cities if Russian troops goes into Ukraine, that would be the best news to feed to the Russian media and let the Russian people express their feelings and outrage, and also at one stroke, nullify all the fifth columns in Russian society.
In fact, this news should be broadcast as widely as possible to the whole world and replayed over and over again. Let Obama be victim of the smear campaign. He MUST pay for what he said. Let the world see him for he truly is, especially by his Amerikan electorate.
President Putin, now wold be a good time to leak this conversation.
finally, i agree with you a bit saker
“… the Pentagon or White House called the Kremlin and threatened a strategic nuclear first strike in the event of an invasion, followed up about 20 minutes with a thermonuclear volley if necessary from the US mainland.”
Russia has the technology to completely neutralise Tomahawk missiles, either sending them astray or destroying them before they can do any damage. In return Russia has ship killing missile technology that could completely wipe out any ship on the Black Sea and even the Mediterranean.
I really do not think Russia has anything to worry about in this department. And I find it highly improbable that the White House called Putin and threatened him with a first strike. I would need to see pretty convincing evidence of that.
@James, yes, I’m acquainted with that site and know what it’s about.
But I thought the article, and the points it raises, was interesting enough to post here.
Saker,
I know what happens to your gut.
Sometimes, guts, instinct, warn us of something terrible, which is arround us and that the brain does not want to accept.
I think your gut warn you that we must surrender to the evidence that we are dealing with psycopaths, a partnership with them, to be precise.
And one can not expect compassion or humanity from a psycopath, nor can you deal with him.
Any attempt to rationalize what a psycopath does is a waste of time, while time earning by the psycopath to commit a cruelty or to inflict more suffering.
The psycopath does not appreciate
your patience or a sign of generosity on your part, rather interprets it as a sign of weakness or a sign that you are weakening, you´re on track to become the object of his macabre games.
So one does not meet with psycopaths in negotiations ( as well as having a pompous name like Geneva ). The psycopath will sign whatever, then missing it, because what he likes more ( besides humiliate or break your will )is breaking the rules and the law and cath you by surprise.
So one does not attend kind invitations to celebrate anything with psycopaths and their servants because it´s likely to be a trap to make you any wrongdoing or to make you the subject of more humiliation.
Finally one would not expect the psycopath cares his own death or even the end of the world where he himself live, because his life is so disgusting who does not mind ending anytime with this nothing, where thera is nothing, and don not feel nothing. ASnd he will love that everything runs for those enjoying the fresh air, the sun, the laughter of children, love, satisfaction with knowledge or a job well done, because he feels an intense envy of all who are not like he.
Nothing to do with the psycopath, he´s not going to change.
We can choose to move lanes if we did not feel strong enough to face it directly, or neutralize it.
I agree with you that Russia should make a move. Putin sort of promised it if civilians were murdered. I am still hoping that Russia silence is not to be interpreted in a weakness, and I was wondering:
Can Russia make an intervention in Novorossiya when there are so few men from there who have taken the arms to defend their country and their family? what will be the reaction of those who chose not to fight? why don’t they fight? How would they react to the coming of Russian troops? how many of them would start fighting agaist Russian troops?
And also:
If Russia goes into an intervention in Novorossiya, would that not weaken Putin argument against an anglo-zionist intervention in Syria? What if the anglo-zionists take as pretxt a violation of international law by Russia (intervention in Novorossiya without Security Council approval) to commit another one of their own (in Syria)
Russia’s position is very difficult. Although I long to see the nazis knocked on the head and the civilians protected, I think those factors must be carefully weighed.
Salam
Dear Saker.
I have been busy with university stuff for the last two weeks or so and only read your blog superficially i.e. I read your posts and Juan’s posts, but I did not have the time to follow the discussions properly, so forgive me if I take up issues and questions that you have already answered. Ok so to start with I would like to say that I enjoy your blog so much because it is the kind of sharp and intelligent analysis you seldom get but paired with a moral compass that is not tied to greed, money and empire. Thank you for that!
Now my questions:
1) When do you think by principle a country should intervene in another country? Prevent genocide? Prevent civil war? Prevent mass murder of civilians?
2) Do you think any of the prerequisites for a Russian intervention are fulfilled?
3) Do you not think that the East-Ukraine situation is a bear trap laid out for Russia to walk into? If it is a bear trap for Russia, so that the US can instigate a new cold war, would it be worth for Russia to walk right into so that it can save the civilians that may be killed in the future in Eastern Ukraine otherwise?
4) Do you think that the levels of violence that the Kiev regime is applying against cities and civilians is sustainable for any longer period of time?
5) In general, don’t you think that the concepts of R2P (responsibility to protect) and humanitarian interventions are dangerous bullshit ideas that seriously undermine international security and the sovereignty of all countries?
6)Wouldn’t an intervention in Ukraine ESSENTIALLY be an R2P intervention?
In my opinion Russia should only intervene if the Ukraine poses a threat to Russia. The only way I think it could threaten Russia is by joining NATO. If that was the case, an invasion seems reasonable.
Sorry in advance for any repeats. If you have already answered my questions elsewhere then sorry for hassle. Kind regards from Malmö.
David K.
To Anonymus 16:14
“Here in the US majority of ppl have already been brainwashed into seeing Putin as an invading Gaddafi of sorts. It’s appalling. So yes, any tanks rolling in, their footage would be used to justify almost anything short of a bomb. This already started months ago. Crimea was used to further brainwash people here that he was out to bring USSR back and is a dangerous criminal. Before that there was trumpeting of Pussy Riot stuff and anti gay law. The majority now sees him as a tyrant, crazy and now with ambitions of soviet grandeur. They would support almost anything if it was sold to them as : “we must stop him before he goes any further and takes Alaska””
Isn´t it crazy what propaganda can do? I´m truly amazed that such information isolation is even possible nowdays when you are one-click away from all sources. We don´t live in 19. century anymore when only source of information about nations far away were newspapers and you had no other option than trust them. There are hundreds of videos with Putin´s speeches on the internet, many of them translated, you can read russian newspapers online, you can communicate with Russians on forums, in comment sections … And still you can easily persuade nation of more than 300 millions that Russia is dictatorship and Putin is crazy. Practically to create another reality.
All:
Regarding my provokative commentary and thesis about the US making nuclear threats to Russia over the Ukraine crisis, please note the following.
1) Of course I do not have a phone tap on the DC-Moscow hotline, what I am presenting is my reading of publicly available evidence from statements made in key press sources. It has been publicly stated that Washington has called Moscow to “discuss” the situation. These discussions are not a chat over a pint of beer, they are statements of intended actions and consequences in the event of certain behavior to permit the opponents to determine opposing intentions, game out events, set “red lines” and the like and possibly come to consensus on a settlement and defuse tensions. If you need an example of such a call, look at the threatening call Kolomoisky made to Oleg Tsaraev a few weeks ago then imagine it is Obama and Putin.
2) A tactical nuclear first strike is long standing NATO doctrine. In the event of a successful attack by Russian ground forces, the standing NATO response is delivery of B61 nuclear weapons from fighters and bombers on the invading armies and key Russian targets. The very small US deployment of a mere 18 fighters to the theater underscores that their function is not the sharp edge of a larger air force strike wing such as seen in Iraq, but to provide a direct response to Russian aggression in Ukraine with nuclear weapons on storage in Europe and now forward deployed to Poland and Lithuania with their delivery aircraft. The targets I stated are suppositional on my part but make sense to me. Destroying Sevastopol and Russian ground forces over the border is obvious. St. Petersburg is less obvious, but the only logical use of 6 fighter-bombers in Lithuania in this conflict when there is an absence of any threats in the Baltics. The proposed destruction of St. Petersburg is an emotional kick in the nuts to Putin, but also gives an opportunity for Moscow to reconsider its actions that provoked the strike and limit the destruction of any conflict by bowing to American demands before the remainder of Russia suffers a similar fate. Perversely, a limited use of tactical nuclear weapons does permit the possibility of a limited nuclear war, because the decision to escalate to a full strategic response of complete annhilation is not required – a white flag can be raised with the loser walking away licking their chops but maintaining their future potential threat posture.
3) It goes without saying that few people want a nuclear exchange. But few people wanted the annhilation of western civilization in WWI either. The existence of nuclear weapons implies their use must be threatened periodically or else their existence does not serve any purpose. If the US, for example, is actually unwilling to ever consider a scenario in which a nuclear response is appropriate, it might as well unilaterally dismantle its nuclear weapons.
(end part 1)
begin part 2
4) The USS Vella Gulf has been openly stated in the press to be carrying nuclear weapons, has a deployment timeline which supports their plausibly being onboard, is claimed as the US’s most powerful surface ship in the press, and was visited in the Black Sea by Secretary of Defense Hagel to reemphasize to the crew the importance of her mission. Everything available publicly indicates many or all of the US’s W80 warheads are currently onboard this ship in its Tomahawk missiles. To those protesting that Russia could neutralize this single ship or any launched missiles, all of that may be true, but would you be willing to risk your country and people on finding that out for sure, or attempting a declaration of war by striking her prior to a launch? Apparently Putin was not, because deployment of the ship met an immediate response of troop withdrawal by Russia, with a withdrawal timeline protracted to match the stay of the ship in the Black Sea. As to how such a single ship could pose a credible threat, precisely because it is armed with Tomahawks, it would have the ability to underscore a threat by actually launching, warning Russia of what is coming and offering a timeline for a self-destruct of the missiles for a last minute act of compliance with the demands. Also, the only way a single ship like Vella Gulf could offer a credible threat is precisely by being fully nuclear armed and being threatened as a first strike weapon. Anything less in weapons and the ship is the functional equivalent of a giant popgun vs. the armed might of Russia, and anything less than a first strike threat and the ship is a sitting duck in any shooting war. The presence of the ship only makes sense if it is nuclear armed and in use as a visible threat.
5) The remarkable beligerance of US statements and the full unmasking of western media control in the service of this conflict only makes sense with the highest level of threats being offered to force Russian compliance to US will.
6) Most people here are utterly underestimating the level of US opposition to the annexation of Crimea because they are thinking in terms of fairplay and respect for popular democracy. None of that matters in US power politics. International Law and the like means nothing except full acceptance of the US position on any issue. Borders are sacred until the US wants them changed. Invasions are illegitimate except for ones done by the US. This is what Full Spectrum Dominance means – the only valid position is whatever Washington says its position is now and everyone else has to accept it. Remember that the US never recognized Russia’s seizure and annexation of the Baltic States in 1945 and still does not recognize the seizure of the Kurile Islands by Russia, even while the US has formally annexed the Marianas from Japan for herself and forced that to be generally recognized. The US can have occupation troops in Germany for 1000 years and military bases in 100 countries, but Russia cannot legitimately even consider to station any troops outside her borders merely in other CIS countries.
So for Russia to unilaterally seize Crimea under the guise of democracy is nothing but utterly infuritating and outrageous to the American power cabal, and for Russia to take further military actions in Ukraine is considered a valid reason for a nuclear threat.
All:
One more thing, as a matter of principal, International Law is a construct coming out of the Peace of Westphalia in 1648. The basis of International Law is the legitimizing and regulating of the desired actions of the participants in that peace, thus making it that anything they do within the rules of Westphalia meets automatic acceptance by the “International Community”.
In other words, International Law is a statement that the nations of the Westphalian peace – England, France, Germany, Netherlands, Sweden and Spain have moral agency and an ability to act in the international sphere without constraint if they follow the agreed upon rules, and that other nations can only be added to this special group by mutual acceptance, which has only happened to the English daughter nations – US, Canada, Australia, and formerly South Africa. These countries have the legal right to do things like invade other countries, overthrow foreign governments, support revolutions, or combine or break up other states provided they do so as a part of group consensus. Thus, Germany can arm and back Croatia against Yugoslavia, but Yugoslavia cannot defend her own territorial integrity in Bosnia. France can invade Mali and the US invade Haiti, but Iraq cannot invade Kuwait. Britain can seize Cyprus and Egypt from the Ottomans, but Russia cannot take Romania or Bulgaria.
It doesn’t matter that this is hypocritical, it is what it is, and the interpretation of the international scene over the past 200+ years will only begin to make sense when you view it through this lens.
http://www.rebelion.org/noticia.php?id=185802
To move wills article by Andriy Manchuk translate into Spanish, you can read it in Russian through the link at the end.
All:
The current presence of a threatened US nuclear tactical strike on a Russian invasion of East Ukraine also makes sense of Yulia Timoshenko’s seemingly delusional rant caught on phone tap about Russians in East Ukraine that “we should destroy them all with nuclear weapons.”
That seems utterly incoherent coming from a former head of state unless one considers this possibility: Ukraine’s leadership has greenlighted the US to deliver nuclear warheads on any invading Russian armies in Donbass/Novorossiya, and the green light is specifically to their willingness to sacrifice the entire Russian civilian population of east Ukraine in a nuclear holocaust initiated on Ukrainian territory by America to stop an invasion.
Looked at this light, Yulia was not ranting incoherently, but lucidly discussing with Nestor Shufrych Ukraine/America’s actual military strategy. And possibly purposefully using an unsecure phone line (complete with her later “Hello FSB” statement) in order to deliver a threat to Russian leadership and simultaneously discuss the plan with her counterparty.
” my Bosnian experience makes it very hard for me to live through these next couple of days.”
If you had real experience in Bosnia then you will understand that illusion, over excitement and self indulgence can be deadly.
” Last, and frankly: I want the Polite Armed Men in Green to make minced meat of the Ukie Nazis involved in this disgusting war on civilians. These SOBs don’t deserve to live, imnsho. “
Wars will not be fought according to your wishes, but according to the perceived possibilities of the participants.
Although Gogol wrote that dogs wrote letters, I expect we are humans writing blog.
As humans we will all die.
Some of you espouse religions.
So what is so frightening about nuclear war?
This fear helps the master whip the dog.