Commentary:
So the Ukies have deliberately done in Lugansk what they have already done in Slaviansk just before the assault: they destroyed the city’s water supply. In the meantime, other Ukie forces have used MLRS systems to bomb and destroy a column of refugees fleeing from the combat area.
It is crucial to understand that these are not “mistakes”.
In reality, this is typical US/NATO doctrine. Most of you probably remember the threat of Secretary Baker made to Tarek Aziz in 1991 “We will destroy your country and bring it back to the stone age.” For a while, Uncle Sam tried to sell this theory as “shock and awe”, but the real description of it would, of course, be “target and terrorize the civilian population”. Nothing new here. This is what the US military has been doing most of its history, for the Indian wars to Libya and Syria in our times. But the best example of this was the terror war against Yugoslavia in support of the KLA in Kosovo. There, the USAF and NATO totally failed at even marginally degrading the Serbian Army Corps in Kosovo so they turned to a strategic terror campaign against the people of Serbian and Montenegro. This is also what Israel does every time Hezbollah defeats it (which is every time the two fight).
In the Ukraine we see exactly the same scenario playing out. The sole difference being that with the Ukies the terror against civilians began on day 1 as soon as Yanukovich was overthrown, especially in Kiev, Odessa and Kharkov. But pretty soon the junta organized something like a military force and sent it to fight the Resistance in Novorussia. Soon, however, it became painfully obvious that the Ukie military did not want to fight and that the Ukie terror squads could not fight. So, naturally, they both turned against the civilians, just like the US and NATO always do.
Though they will not admit it, the junta leaders probably realize that the Donbass is lost forever and that even if they occupy it, all they will get for it in a never-ending insurgency. So from the point of view of the Nazi junta, terrorizing civilians is a perfect strategy: either they leave or the die. And, as an added bonus, if the junta commits enough atrocities, Russia might be forced to intervene, which would be a dream come true for the junta and Uncle Sam.
But some reporters, even well-intentioned one, just don’t get it. For example, they say that the Tochka-U missile is inaccurate and that it cannot be accurately targeted. This is not true at all. The missile is called “Tochka” which means “spot” or even “dot” because it is extremely accurate. It’s “inaccuracy” is not in the fact that it cannot precisely be targeted, but because its warhead can kill everything alive on a surface of three acres, more with a cluster of FAE warhead. When the Ukies shoot a Tochka-U at a residential neighborhood of Lugansk (like they did yesterday) they are deliberately trying to kill as many civilians as possible. Ditto for their massive MLRS strikes. For the Ukies civilians are not “collateral damage” – they are the primary target.
From all the reports, the junta has more or less given up on the notion of actually fighting the Resistance. Instead, they try to terrorize and kill as many civilians as possible, and they use their numerical superiority to probe everywhere along the line of contact. If a location appears less defended, they then “take it” – even if the “conquered” position was not even defended in the first place. It makes for good soundbites and headlines in the MSM.
Now they have destroyed the main water supply station in Lugansk. Again, this is not a mistake. Just like the numerous artillery strikes against local hospitals, including cancer-treatment facilities, the destruction of the civilian infrastructure is logical “if we can’t have it – neither will you” is how Uncle Sam and his death squads have always operated. This is why the Ukies have now begun bombing the coal mines.
What the Ukies are doing is a terror campaign of ethnic cleansing which is deliberate and systematic. All that talk about “poor targeting” and “mistakes” is nonsense.
The Saker
Thanks for detailing the massive crimes of the Outlaw US Empire. How anyone with a moral grounding and knowledge of the true state of affairs–now and past–can continue to provide money in the form of taxes that supports those crimes is beyond my comprehension.
Hi Saker,
Sorry for a sentence in capitals, please read it.
You’ve explained at least 100 times but I can’t understand (along with cc. 70% of your readers) why you think Russian intervention is the wet dream of the Junta or Uncle Sam. While it would be costly to Russia, a buffer zone (“Novorossia”) would be formed negating any gain the USA got with the February putsch. Local population would be mostly friendly. World opinion would be against Russia, but (sorry for the capitals) WHATEVER RUSSIA DOES THAT DOESN’T MATTER, SHE IS ALWAYS PORTRAYED IN BAD LIGHT IN THE WESTERN BULLSHIT MEDIA.
Imho the US deep state and its Ukie puppets are shitting their pants when they think of any Russian intervention, that is, by the way, already ongoing (low scale though), as even yourself had had to admit.
The US is used to risky stuff, remember Georgia in 2008, that kretin Saakasvili must’ve had serious encouragement from his puppet handlers. He attacked Russia, got a decent beating, there was a propaganda shitstorm in the Western MSM, and that’s all. The US had to swallow the bitter pill. Now the same’s happenning. His Ukie “revolution” lasts until the large scale Russian intervention. He US then will simply write it down as a failed investment, for some 5-10 billions of feshly printed dollars.
Regard,
Balazs from Hungary
Putin should open the Russian border for refugees on TV
and tell Kiev to cease military operations or Russia will
act to stop illegal aggression.
8 hrs later…tactical strikes wipe out Kiev military bases
and arsenals.
Europe knows Porno shenkos a US Nato puppet
knows Kiev earned its beating….in spades
It is none of my business, I don’t post here much but read a lot.
I urge you to have the anon types place a name with with their dribble so many of us can scroll on down when we see them and not waste so much time.
The theatre of the absurd is usually brought by anonymous here.
dublinmick
@Balazs from Hungary: sorry for the capitals
Okay, ONCE, I will make an exception :-)
I can’t understand (along with cc. 70% of your readers) why you think Russian intervention is the wet dream of the Junta or Uncle Sam
Because it will allow the USA to re-create a Cold War. That, in turn, will both sever the currently growing ties between Russia and the rest of Europe and it will also fully re-subordinate to the USA. It will provide billions in revenue to the US military-industrial complex and that will allow the 1%er US deep state to frighten its citizens by a next “threat” to replace the already warn out and old “terrorist” threat. It will also sabotage the Russia idea of one zone of peace and stability from Lisbon to Vladivostok and it will make the creation of a Eurasian Union more difficult. It would also possibly justify a US/NATO intervention in western Ukraine, possibly up to Kiev (militarily stupid, but politically attractive). Inside the Ukraine it will allow the regime in power to blame it all on the evil Moskals and begin a guerrilla war against the Russian forces. Finally, chaos in Europe makes the dollar stronger by making it the “refuge” currency. So for all these reasons a Russian intervention in the Donbass is a AngloZionists’ wet dream indeed.
HTH,
The Saker
PS: no more CAPS, ok? That was a one-time exception :-)
Saker, I have to agree with the gentleman from Hungary, Balazs. As I was reading your article, i had drawn the same conclusion that he did. Your contention that the EU-NATO-Neocon instigators in Washington are itching for a direct Russian intervention along with all the alleged consequences (to Russia) has grown obsolete. In other words, your contention was true back in Spring, but it is no longer true as we approach Autumn/Q4-2014.
Why? Because conditions have changed (as intended by Russian planners). Russia has put all it ducks in order and shot many of them right on schedule: sanctions have been mitigated against, biting counter sanctions have been inposed on the EU and minor allies Canada & Australia, bilateral de-dollarization trade facilities have been signed with massive partners (India, China, & much of Latin America) and lynchpin strategic powers (Iran, to be signed next week), the New Development Bank is signed off, the mini-IMF is signed off, Russia has managed to convince/lobby China to offer full membership to India in the SCO, information of atrocities carried out by the Junta has percolated to enough nations and people that it’s reached critical mass, close to 1 million Ukrainians are refugees in Russia, incriminating evidence regarding the downing of flight MH17 by allies of Nato has been acquired and diseminated to key governments, the Junta is close to broke, “western Ukrainians” are starting rebel due non-payment of military salaries and the very high mortality of conscripts, the Right Sector cowards have taken a severe beating from real men and looking to blame the Junta, the Junta has threatened the EU (gas cut-off), A massive humanitarian convoy is poised to help the victims of the Junta further backing the Junta and it’s incompetent handlers into a strategic & diplomatic corner, etc., etc.
The time is becoming ripe for when a direct Russian intervention can occur with close to zero “further” impact on Russia. Russia has immunized itself against most structural and economic impacts (in the last 6 months). In addition, Russia and those idiots in Kiev Junta have demonstrated to the section of the Donbass population that are fence-sitters, opportunists, and gen-X sissy men what the real and brutal consequences are for their Nevilling Ayn-Randian attitude: total decimation of their way of life, physical security, and economic future.
So the conditions are ripening for Russia having the leeway to intervene in a manner of its choosing with minimal consequences – Just as Putin and his strategists had presented in Q1, 2014; I.e Russia would be in a position to more decisively and assertively intervene in or after September. This doesn’t mean that Russia has to intervene directly, but now they can – in manner that will be more detrimental to the interests of NATO and the Neocons than it will be to Russia; reversing the dynamic that you have alluded to and giving Russia the deterrent tool of threatening intervention if the Junta and their fanatical handlers get too far out of hand.
I do believe you need to re-examine your assumptions in light of the changed conditions that exist now.
No – fly zone.
Hi Saker,
No more caps :-)
What you’ve just written is already on the way, and will be complete soon with or without any Russian deed. Please trust me, I live in the EU, the Transatlantic Ruling Class (1%) has it from Lisbon to Kishinov to Helsinki (and yes, to even Oslo :) ). Russia is The Enemy Nr1 at the moment because it shows some kind of independence. The Cold War is ongoing.
Regard,
B. from H.
Spot on, Saker. Attacks on civilian infrastructure have been a deliberate tactic of US and its client regimes for years.
Here is a good write-up of NATO’s terror tactics in 1999. And to hide it, they always accuse their target of “murdering civilians.”
Arsen Avakov has proposed to the Right Sector that the apparent intra-Nazi dispute threatening with a coup within the Nazi coup e resolved by Avakov’s adoption of the Right Sector as his own children, that is, as part of his own interior ministry and the battalions. The Right Sector agreed. The Right Sector is thus on its way of becoming the new Nazi police or Gestapo. http://rusvesna.su/news/1408387090
Vladimir Kononov, Commander in Chief of the Donetsk Republic: In accordance with its own political and moral character, the Nazi junta is conducting against Donbass “a fascist, terrorist war.” ://vk.com/strelkov_info?w=wall-57424472_12546
In addition to various half-naked celebrities, magazine Elle decided to promote wives of fascist leaders who, like Poroshenko (in this very case), have already killed thousands of civilians and is behind the downing of the Malaysian airliner. In other words, wives of fascist leaders are being set as a new trend and a new fashion standard. As the heading on her left side, indeed, says: “New horizons, trends, and people.” http://rusvesna.su/news/1408387218
I hope with all my heart that the militia may continue fight back this fascist Ukies, and that the civilian people may get soon help from the convoy.
Saker, on the war crimes, thank you again for informing them to the public. I cry with the people who are affected, even for those who are forced to commit these crimes or are pushed forward into ambushes and all that. I do not cry for mercenary thugs,obviously.
On the anon’s I recommend to require unique identification. Any anon can front for another one. Even for the sake of honest discussion it is not possible to react to a post of an anom, because it can be another anom.
Saker,
What’s the down-low on our efforts to color-revolutionize or otherwise sabotage the upcoming St. Petersburg elections? I can’t imagine Putin is unaware of all that, but might that figure into his calculations also, and if so, how?
In any case, I guess the bottom line is, it’s easy to slaughter if you don’t care about people. And our culture, for whatever reasons, keeps promoting killers. It’s like there are no stops, no internal limits on the killers or their bosses and handlers, and no social or political stops on those public officials and private whomevers who ensure the current slaughters will continue, and are busy thinking of more carnage as I type.
It’s like morality is a valve or a faucet that can be turned either way, until a certain point where it can’t be turned back, it’s just wide open. And we’re just beginning to see the real horror, not just in front of our eyes, but behind the scenes — which in many ways is even more horrifying, bc when you really look at it, or even try to imagine how people can knowingly set this stuff in motion, you are face to face with real, genuine, Evil.
And again, while it feels like a rock wall seventygazillion feet high, it’s still up to us, not Putin, not the dollar, to find some way of stopping all this. Bc otherwise we’re no different than the “good Germans” so horribly (and imo unfairly) castigated in that other thread — and they faced a whole lot more repression than we are, a whole lot! And talking and agonizing and strutting don’t do a darned thing. It’s hard to face how helpless we are/feel, but it’s still up to us to face it, figure it out, and get started. Frankly, it’s a blot on our souls otherwise — and there’s just got to be a way! There just simply does — but we won’t find it if we don’t start looking!
So far today I’ve been finding either little good news or simply no news from my usual numerous Ukraine news sources and this post didn’t help much. ;-)
But, while not nearly enough to counteract all the bad news so far today, below are a few scraps of positive news I pulled from some twitter feeds at about 4 pm USA east coast time.
~~~~~~~~~~
Rock Solid Politics @BradCabana · 15m
Apparently so many men surrendered from the 30th Brigade that a POW camp may be necessary. Entire HQ captured as well. #Ukraine #cdnpoli
Rock Solid Politics @BradCabana · 13m
The 30th Brigade only lasted 2 days being cutoff in a pocket, tried to sneak back to #Ukraine lines,but were trapped at #Stepanivka #cdnpoli
~~~~~~~~~~
Retweeted by Alex Bukovsky
tony_hartin @tony_hartin · 8h
#NAF have successfully rescued 30 miners trapped in the mine “Kosomolets Donbas” by #Ukie bombing of its electrical supply #warcrimes
~~~~~~~~~~
Retweeted by Alex Bukovsky
Àngel Ferrero @angelferrero · 2h
Spanish farmers burn a #EU flag in #Aragon and demand a normalization of the relationships with #Russia. | #sanctions
~~~~~~~~~~
WORLD MAP
KEY:
GREEN: countries where media call defenders of Novorossiya “self-defence militia”
RED: countries where media call defenders of Novorossiya “separatists/terrorists”
[ the one green country in Europe is Serbia ]
@John 20:47
John that’s an excellent map and further buttresses my point to Saker that the number of people and nations that have grown aware of the atrocities of the Kiev Junta has reached critical mass. The map you provided indicates the countries that agree with Russia on these issues represent 70% of the planets population, over 60% of global GDP and 4 out the 7 nuclear powers.
Another point that needs to emphasized. Many powerful people within the US and its military and political class are against current incompetent and reckless course of action (re: Ukraine, Russia, Syria, etc.) being foisted on all of us by a small idiotic minority of factions entailing the neo-liberals (the undead narsissist zbigniew brezinski) and the allies of conveniance and the Neocons (idiots like Nuland at al). These “realist” Americans are slowly (verrry slowly) gaining currency everyday as the continued bungling of the aforementioned factions further pulls US/EU/NATO foreign policy into the toilette. Cooler [American] minds will prevail just as they have prevailed in Russia and countries you illustrated in Green.
And now, they are manufacturing another “ad-hoc” story, without any proof of course, that fits the narrative that has been developping since the shootdawn of a commercial airliner.
I refer to the curious story of a refugees’ convoy destruction last night. Of course, Kiev is saying they can’t provide pictures and ask Ukrainian media not to show any since it’s too horrible… How fitting indeed…
This is again the proof that Russia is letting Kiev and NATO control the narrative even with frivolous and unproved stories.
So why wait any longer before entering Ukraine and destroying its forces in the field since they are stupid enough to have them all in the east, ready to be cut from the rest of the country and liquidated as a whole (I would let the neo-nazis go back intact with their heavy weapons to Kiev though… just to make sure that Petroshenko got trouble with them).
Bahhh naawww, that’s too late. Russia is loosing by too much prudence.
I’m an American reader who discovered The Guardian on its publication of the Snowden files. Reading the articles and the comments, I thought . . . great. Left-wing, witty, anti-American. Then came the Ukraine coverage and a long period of anger and pain. But now, with the climactic Shaun Walker story of the ‘Russian invasion’ that was then ‘destroyed’ by the army of the state formation known as Ukraine . . . I have to laugh. While it’s sad that the comment boards are now spammed by about 3-5 dedicated Canadian and NATO Nazis, sad that so many comments are censored and moderated . . . it is pathetic that Shaun Walker and The Guardian are still pretending, to this day, to be journalists, editors . . . still pretending to be something more than a press office for British intelligence.
But it’s not too sad, ’cause I really don’t give a shit. A little research on Twitter, a little Cassad, Saker, militaryphotos.net, a little Kissinger, Brezinski, Solzhenitsyn . . . it’s easy to understand the reality about Ukraine. I guess the ‘journalists’ and ‘editors’ of the western ‘press’ don’t have as much competence as an average intellectually curious person . . . but then . . . maybe they will become more curious as they freeze to death this winter in Europe . . . watch America implode with a few gentle nudges behind the scenes . . . maybe they will start to wonder why when tactical nuclear weapons are openly used for the first time . . . or maybe not.
But thanks to all the people out there who care enough to publish some things much closer to the truth.
Thanks to all the commenters on various boards who are sharing their knowledge, instincts, emotions and considered reflections as opposed to the neoliberal, neofascist vacuum propaganda put out by the losers in the US and the cowards and traitors of the EU.
karlof 1
Taxes are chump change to Uncle Sam the Hegemon.
The FED just pushed the digital button and prints electronic money/debt for the slaves called citizens.
We spent taxes in the old days, but always we increased the national debt.
Now taxes and budgets are used to distract the citizens in this Democracy (sic) while the liquidity from the central bank is used to enrich the Elites and promote Chaos and extend the Empire.
So, it would be senseless to not pay taxes (most of which are automatically deducted anyway). To take on the IRS for geopolitical reasons just gets you federal prison time and loss of all your assets.
The fact is the game of the Republics and Democracies is over. The Tyranny atop the world has one challenger—Putin. With Putin we get China and Xi and the construction of a Eurasia that will be very viable against the Hegemon.
The SCO, BRICS and the leadership of Putin and Xi will offs us mere mortals some hope, some aspiration.
But direct local action is not going to work unless it is the beginning of a liquidation of the Elites.
The Tyranny will fall when the decapitation is sufficient to change the calculus of power.
Weakening the dollar, eliminating the petrodollar, changing the markets for trade and commerce, creating a basket of currencies, diminishing the IMF and WB as sole source for loans for development all are part of the weapons to slay the Hegemon.
However, death is a necessary component for the Tyrant to feel. This is slaves versus masters, this war we are in.
For those who feel otherwise, so be it.
I understand the sentiment.
But tell it to the people who have to face the armies of death sent to kill them, to cleanse their lands, to assassinate their leaders.
The proper response to a death threat, to enslavement, to tyrants is to kill the killers.
We agree they are psychopaths, sociopaths and vermin upon the beautiful landscape of humanity.
So, lets get rid of them.
The Elites never come to any of the battlefields they crate or cause. We have to go get them.
We have to agree to sanction professionally trained experts to do that task.
If anyone doubts, right now, somewhere, there are professionals who are trying to arrange the cataclysmic end to Vladimir Putin’s life, wake up!
As long as the Elites believe they are untouchable by the slaves humbled below them, they will continue to rob and rape and murder.
When they see and feel the sentiment of the rest of humanity change, when they understand the shift to malocchio—in Sicilian, evil eye, then they will know their satanic, demigod rule over humanity is coming to an end.
@Nora:What’s the down-low on our efforts to color-revolutionize or otherwise sabotage the upcoming St. Petersburg elections? I can’t imagine Putin is unaware of all that, but might that figure into his calculations also, and if so, how?
Dear Nora,
I think that this entire panic over 50’000 Ukie infiltrators about to begin a new Maidan in Petersburg is a canard from the Dugin-Fedorov-Limonov camp who, as I mentioned here in the past, a) have a beef with Putin’s handling of the war in Novorussia and b) want to create a sense of urgency/panic inside Russia. So let’s look into the implications of this idea.
a) First, this assumes that the FSB would let these Ukie infiltrators join forces with the Russian pro-US “liberal” forces to try to organize a mass movement against Putin. Except for the FSB has never been stronger than today (as shown by, for example the success of the Sochi Games)
b) It implies that there is an agenda, a message, an idea which these circles could generate which would have enough “traction” to get people to join the protests. Except that Putin’s popularity is at 87%.
c) One idea mentioned is that if Putin does not act in Novorussia there would be a “patriotic Maidan” demanding that Putin intervene or even that Putin leave. Except that 67% of Russians (iirc) are opposed to any intervention in this civil war.
d) This idea also overlooks the single most powerful tool used by Putin to literally asphyxiate the opposition the last time it took to the streets. The pro-Putin people literally used the Ukie Maidan as a bogeyman saying that “look at the Ukraine, look at Russia – do we really want a Maidan here?”. People got so freaked out at the though that huge pro-regime crowds took to the streets.
So even if the Russian liberals are trying to win the elections in Saint Petersburg, and even if there is a real possibility of some protests, there is ZERO chance of that leading to anything except a FURTHER consolidation of the Putin regime. Everybody in Russia understands this simple equation:
Russia – Putin = the Ukraine
Believe me when I say that he now is treated with an quasi monarchical reverence even by the CPSU, LDPR and Just Russia leaders. What Putin succeeded in doing is to truly, really and deeply get the support of the people. I assure you that if he is in any way threatened by anything the Russian people will rise up, literally. Add to this the fact that he does have full control of the security services and the military, and you will see why the only way to get rid of him for the AngloZionists is to kill him. There is *ZERO* chance of “color-revolution-overthrowing” him. Zero.
to be contined….
…. continued:
There is one exception to that: if Putin really allows the Nazis to overrun the Donbass, then he will take a major political risk. He still will have the security services, but his popularity will most definitely go down sharply. And if then Ukies then turn their gaze to Crimea, then he will face a very real and dangerous crisis. But I see no signs, not signs *AT ALL* that the Ukies are about to overrun the Donbass. The very latest info I have is:
a) the Ukies are suffering even more casualties
b) the Resistance lacks specialists but now has a lot of equipment
c) the weapons flow across the border has gone up
Now, there is what is called the “breaking point” where a military force suddenly collapses, and I will not sleep well at night for as long as there is a risk of the Resistance reaching that “breaking point”, but as far as I can tell, I see no signs of this moment approaching. In fact, I see plenty of signs that the Ukies are getting there. Now, this does NOT mean that the worst cannot happen. All I am saying is that right now I do not see this moment as imminent.
Political betrayal and backroom deals are a far bigger risk than the military collapse of the Resistance. In her history Russia has suffered much more from her own traitors than from her enemies. So it all boils down to this: do we have any reasons to suspect Putin of betrayal? I would argue that we do not, at least not at this point in time. Can we be sure of him? I would not recommend that either. I would recommend no panic, no triumphalism, just a sober and careful assessment of the facts (as opposed to rumors and speculations).
As for the elections in Saint Petersburg, I don’t know what can/will happen there. But I am quite sure of what will NOT happen: a Russian Maidan.
Kind regards and guys to both of you,
The Saker
You say they try to terrorize and kill as many as possible. The terrorize I understand well enough.. with some 700000 having fled over to Russia. But unless the figures mentioned by both the West and Russia alike are WAY off, very few civilians had actually been killed for the amount of weapons employed. Around 2000 civies is usually mentioned.
@Rokudenashi San: Around 2000 civies is usually mentioned.
Well, the “usually mentioned” usually has its root in the MSM. This being said, I have no idea what the real figures are. They are way higher than 2000, if only because the vast majority of deaths are not reported. But whatever the figure is, it is still “either dead or gone” and the Ukies probably don’t care how many are dead or gone. But the true figures, if ever, will only come out once the Ukraine is de-Nazified, not before.
Cheers,
The Saker
Saker,
It has been not infrequent that in my rambling exploration of materials related to Russia and the current Russian citizenry, it has been made clear that they would welcome an autocratic ruler whose courage and intelligence and patriotism is not cluttered or lessened by politics and elections.
Is this the case, or is it disinformation.? Could there be a movement later on in the coming years to alter the Constitutional limits on Putin and grant him some lifetime rule?
I find the Russian culture chock full of surprises. But to each his own. If Liberty is found in comfort of the wise, benevolent Czar, so be it.
For the record, I think Vladimir Putin is the man for our times. I pray each night, and when I’m out walking, enjoying the sun and the sea breeze, I say another prayer for him and the militia.
Thank you for the Vineyard.
If this was the Kiev regime’s plan from the beginning, which I strongly suspect it was,
————————
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/19/ukraine-donetsk-pro-russia-militants
Todorov – a supporter of Ukrainian statehood – said he was deeply pessimistic about his country’s future. He said he doubted presidential elections due to be held on 25 May would take place, at least not in the east. And in Kiev, he suggested, there was a growing feeling that Ukraine would be better off dumping its troublesome eastern provinces and creating a modern European country without them.
———————
And if it is still their plan as indicated by this Kiev Post column,
———————–
https://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/op-ed/boris-danik-imagining-donbas-vote-for-ukraines-parliament-359055.html
Notwithstanding Russia’s role in stimulating the Donbas separatism, large segments of population in that area didn’t need much stimulation to vote with guns against the new Ukrainian government which they detested. And many still feel the same way, embittered by urban destruction and civilian casualties for which they blame Ukrainian troops.
…
As long as large population centers in Donbas are under rebel control, they will not take part in the next parliamentary elections, and will not help split Ukraine.
…
Hypothetically, reconquering all of Donbas would open a plethora of problems for Ukraine’s democratic government, how to accommodate the traditionally pro-Russian population that basically despises Ukraine not of their own making, with Russian civilization attributes.
Perhaps the best realizable outcome could be a semi-permanent ceasefire if all sides would be willing to accept it. After all, a ceasefire in Korea has held a long time. Or think of Transnistria, and don’t reject it out of hand. It may be a puny model but better than the non-stop war. Again, this is hypothetical, but so are most other solutions.
———————–
The Kiev regime does not intend to win the civil war.
They intend to lose and get the partition of the Ukraine and blame Russia for it.
Also they want to create enough anger and hostility to last generations so that the partition line in the Ukraine becomes an another Berlin wall which will divide Europe from Russia.
Therefore the poor performance of the Kiev troops on the field and the infliction of militarily unnecessary sufferings on the civilians, are not signs of any failure on their plan. They are rather signs of a brilliant success disguised as a failure.
My guess is that even if the Kiev regime troops gain some decisive military victory, they will not go for a kill to finish off the resistance. They will only use their victory to inflict more sufferings on the civilians.
The problem is that the Novorossian victory is not a solution, if it results in the partition of the Ukraine, and thus completes the new cold war.
The Novorossian forces are in politically impossible situation. If they win militarily, they will lose politically. If they lose militarily, it will usher in more civilian sufferings. Moreover, the Kiev regime will not allow the Novorossia to lose.
The real solution is not on the battlefield, but in Kiev and its western backers.
Only by separating Europe from the US, the external support for the Kiev regime will be neutralized and the Kiev regime in the present form will collapse. Only then new process of national reconciliation will start, which will preserve unified Ukraine serving as a bridge between Europe and Russia.
However, I am not sure of its prospect.
After the war had slaughtered Vietnamese in vast numbers, most of them women and children, Johnson’s secretary of defense, Robert McNamara, confessed that the Tonkin Gulf attack had never occurred.
…
After the war had slaughtered Iraqis in vast numbers, most of them women and children, Bush confessed that the weapons of mass destruction never existed. “The most lethal weapons ever devised” were his own speeches.
In the following elections, he won a second term.
In my childhood, my mother used to tell me that a lie has no feet. She was misinformed.
— Eduardo Galeano excerpt from Tomdispatch.com
VINEYARDSAKER: said
“I think that this entire panic over 50’000 Ukie infiltrators about to begin a new Maidan in Petersburg is a canard from the Dugin-Fedorov-Limonov camp who, as I mentioned here in the past..”
Saker I’ve asked you, in another thread, to explain a little review about this motion-Dugin-Fedorov-Limonv and Essence of Time.
I understand from your answer to Nora that you already had done in the past.
As I’ve only been here for the last few months, would you please put the link to the article or articles on the subject, if it is possible?
Thank you very much in advance.
@Balazs from Hungary mentioned: World opinion would be against Russia, but…
Please allow for a market perspective by taking a “long” range investment view, as opposed to the “short” sellers view.
The portion of your statement is one that has been sold via the MSM to the masses. The question that one must contemplate and reconcile is “who” is this “world” and “who” formed the opinion of this “world” view?
Now, let’s add yet another question in order to reach a logical conclusion. Did you, or anyone else, get queried?
Final question, since all good things come in threes. What is the opinion of the “real” world, outside the fiat world, that comprises the vast majority of people and resources in comparison?
In summary, at this point in time, the only “world” opinion that really matters is contained in this short answer –> China
If they don’t already outright own significant industrial, agricultural, banking and resource sectors of most “developed” nations, they have enslaved them with trade deficits that control them economically.
As long as the RF does not “act” like those indebted to China, it can foster mutual developments in all markets with all of the future emerging and developing nations. Not to mention they both have gold and tangible commodities backed currencies as opposed to a purely military backed currency drawn out of thin air…
DumpHarper!
Saker,
Thank you! And thank you for going into all that detail too — that is truly a genuine relief. But just because I worry, can you please answer one more? We have an awful lot of election fraud here (*not* voter fraud, that’s miniscule and a Republican way to disenfranchise Democratic minorities) (anyone wanna argue me that, show me your numbers and I’ll show you mine). And now there’s some suggestion that Harper, Merkel, Abbott, who knows else, may have been fraudulently elected as well. What kind of controls are there in Russia to ensure a fraud-free exercise of the franchise? (Hopefully they don’t have the damned electronic machines that my dogs could probably hack!)
And our very best back atcha! I just don’t know what we’d do without you.
Larchmonter445,
“So, lets get rid of them.
The Elites never come to any of the battlefields they crate or cause. We have to go get them.
We have to agree to sanction professionally trained experts to do that task.”
Are you really suggesting We The People hire assassains? uh… Count. Me. Out. !!!
This explanation makes much more sense. In fact, there can be no other explnantion…Great work vineyard
Don’t forget the Us did this to its own people in the American civil war, surround, bombard, terrorize people underground, call them the names of animals when they dig holes to hide from the shelling. The deliberate burning of every farm and civilian structure in Sherman’s March to the sea in Georgia and the torching of the farmland in the Shenandoah Valley in Virginia were war crimes. Of course the US is behind all this and it makes me sick. I am so frustrated Russia will not come to the rescue.
Anonymous 21:29,
There is a fair amount of evidence in Ohio, West Virginia and New Mexico to suggest Bush never won re-election. Some of it was presented to Kerry and he just hadn’t the stones to do anything about it. Otoh, given that this is John Kerry we’re talking about, uh, it probably wouldn’t have mattered anyhow. (When *was* the last time we really had a decent choice?)
DumpHarper,
That is a very interesting way of looking at things. Also, I haven’t said this before but God bless you and your efforts: you guys really really *really* deserve something better than that little creep! UGH. He’s just so… so… un-Canadian!
@Larchmonter445:It has been not infrequent that in my rambling exploration of materials related to Russia and the current Russian citizenry, it has been made clear that they would welcome an autocratic ruler whose courage and intelligence and patriotism is not cluttered or lessened by politics and elections. Is this the case, or is it disinformation.? Could there be a movement later on in the coming years to alter the Constitutional limits on Putin and grant him some lifetime rule?
That is a VERY interesting and controversial question. A couple of quick notes first:
a) Russians have always been very attached to their freedom. Every time these freedoms have been limited in the past, the Russians rebelled. There is a deep, deep libertarian streak in the Russian culture and it has its direct roots in the Orthodox view of the nature of man.
b) at the same time, Russians ALSO like a strong leader and the fact is that Russia simply cannot be ruled effectively by a weak person.
c) there is a clear tension between a) and b) which historically has been resolved by the autocratic monarch and the masses on one side, and the elites on the other. Interestingly, this is what is happening today, with Putin clearly supported by the masses and disliked by the elites.
Could Putin become a lifelong leader of some sorts? I honestly and deeply believe that this is not possible. Believe it or not, but that clown Zhirinovsky has just suggested that last Sunday when Putin and the Duma leaders met in Crimea. The good news is that everybody, including Putin, just had a good laugh. The reality is that Russians are also attached to “people rule”. Yes, they reject in disgust western capitalism and “democracy”, and even the word itself has now a nasty connotation, but most Russians are, I think, deeply attached to the idea that their views should be heard at the top. The distance between a law-abiding Russian and one who will defy the state is very short as soon as the Russian feels that “they” are in command and not “we”. Putin’s genius is that he managed to make most people sincerely believe in him and that he stands for their interests. Historically in Russia the Tsars who did that ended up murdered by the elites. And his is why he is also very careful to make sure that the “power ministries” (FSB, military, MVD) are firmly on his side. Alas, he still does not have full control of the “money-people”, especially the government which often quietly sabotages his decrees.
Whatever may be the case, I think that even Putin himself would agree that Russia cannot depend on a person, but must built a Russian type of democracy. Just as Iran has its Islamic Republic which combines Islam and democracy, so much Russia find a kind of democracy which confirms to her Orthodox and Muslim worldview and traditions. A single man cannot be entrusted with that.
Does that answer your (very complex) question adequately?
Cheers,
The Saker
Don’t forget that the US did this to its own people in the American Civil War! History has so sainted Abe Lincoln his absolute war crimes have been hidden. Cities were sieged and bombarded, civilians died, people hid underground as Yankee troops called insults and animal names to the people they saw digging a hideout from the shelling. The deliberate destruction of civilian farms and structures, and the looting of homes during Sherman’s March to the Sea and the torching of the Shenandoah Valley were war crimes that should not be excused. Of course the US is behind what is happening now and it is disgraceful. It’s frustrating that Russia allows it to continue.
@elsi:explain a little review about this motion-Dugin-Fedorov-Limonv and Essence of Time.
I am sorry, but I am not sure that I understand your question. Can you please clarify and tell me what specifically you are asking?
Thanks a lot,
The Saker
@Nora:What kind of controls are there in Russia to ensure a fraud-free exercise of the franchise?
Well, to be honest, I never had much faith in the electoral process anyway. Living now in the (in)famous Volusia County probably does not help. The Russian people are not the most law-abiding, and there is a lot of corruption too. I don’t expect that elections can be super-clean there by definition. But the voting methodology is as good as it gets: my hand, with wall-to-wall video recording of all the proceedings in every single voting station in Russia, and all that streaming live on the Internet (another brilliant Putin idea). Also, you can grossly and massively trick elections, or you can subtle trick them on the margins. But you cannot grossly and subtly steal an election. Not in a developed country. So this topic becomes relevant when the vote is close. But when one party is massively ahead, this is pretty irrelevant, really. Even if ALL the voting fraud allegations in Russia at the last elections had been proven true (and they were not!), it would not have changed the result by even 1%. At this point the entire topic is irrelevant.
No, the real problem is succession. Unlike the Chinese, the Russians never learned the subtle art of preparing a successor, not under the Tsars, not under the Soviets. My hope is that Putin is grooming Rogozin, but Putin is a very, very hard act to follow and I am not sure that Rogozin (whom I like a lot) has the shoulders and the staying power to deal with the real enemy: the internal 5th column of traitors to Russia inside Russia.
There are two men out there for whom I simply cannot imagine a successor, two men which I find irreplaceable: Putin and Nasrallah. We can only wish them a very long life, a lot of wisdom, and the capability to prepare a worthy successor.
Cheers,
The Saker
Well, Raul and Maduro seem to be hanging in there.
If you have built a strong structure you no longer need a great man.
But the danger lies in Putin not being around long enough to institute the new structure: the multi-polar world.
“And our culture, for whatever reasons, keeps promoting killers.” [Nora]
Maybe it’s slightly different. Maybe our culture turns people into killers after they acquire power.
There’s something that has troubled me ever since I first saw it. Do you remember the picture of Obama and Hilary Clinton watching something – we haven’t been told exactly what it was – by video link while Osama bin Laden was being killed?
Was it the ultimate snuff movie?
Psychologically, what does that sort of experience do to people?
It as if our leaders taste blood and become addicted to it. They bomb children and are not revulsed. They are not fit for office.
Poroshenko is the proxy for Obama, Cameron, Merkel et al. They are all guilty of war crimes and atrocities. In more enlightened times, they would be prosecuted.
Robin.
the saker said
…. the real enemy: the internal 5th column of traitors to Russia inside Russia…
the position of rogozin is claer ( as the medeved’s one in the opposite side ) but what is the real position of the mysterious Ivanov ?
besides another question: some proofs that the strange “holidays” of strelkov are not a signal of weakening of the sovranists ?”
Saker replied
Does that answer your (very complex) question adequately?
Cheers,
The Saker
18 August, 2014 21:53
Absolutely, and leads me to another question, but you have a life and a wife and kids. I’ll get to that another time. It can wait.
Thanks.
re dublinmick @20:09: Those of us subjected to rancid, vile vitriol, sometimes more than once, for simply reporting by name a hitherto unreported item, and offering a modest suggestion, labeled as such, are very reluctant to post by name again. Although Saker can keep the perpetrators under control while he’s around, when he takes a vacation they run wild and break bad.
VINEYARDSAKER: said…
@elsi:explain a little review about this motion-Dugin-Fedorov-Limonv and Essence of Time.
I am sorry, but I am not sure that I understand your question. Can you please clarify and tell me what specifically you are asking?
Thanks a lot,
The Saker
18 August, 2014 21:57
Well, when I hear Fedorov, (the other two of this movement, Dugin, Limonov, I have not ever heard ) at some link that have provided here the commentators, I see that, but expresses an imminent danger to Russia that might be exaggerated, I do not know, basically seems to be targeting the country’s security and protect it from external interference. Like all of us, I think.
Then the other day someone put a link on a series of lectures that will give in Spain members of The Essence of Time, invited by the Asturian antifascist movement. Since I have no idea about this movement, I went to wikipedia and find that it is founded by Sergei Kurginyan, and I see that its objectives, promoting the virtues of Russian culture and its ancient and recent history and the development of people´s potencial to get their best and that Russia could serve as a beacon for global change. (Ok, roughly, read well above)
As in the beginning, I do not find anything wrong, but do not know the workings of Kurginyan in Russian politics (and any other, in fact, for only follow this blog, Putin, and events in Ukraine and also recently) and I see that you do not have a high opinion of him, I’d like you to tell more about these movements and why do you think so poorly.
No more, because I value your opinion so much and consider you far better informed than I can get out there on the internet, considering that I do not read Russian and English with just hack.
But if you are very tired or short of time, do not worry, I understand it. I´ll find something, when I could. ( this blog takes me almost all the free time, so interesting )
Kind regards, take care.
Gosh! Again, the usual clouds gather.
– Bulgaria Halts South Stream Pipeline Again As NATO F-15s, Troops Arrive –
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-18/bulgaria-halts-south-stream-pipeline-again-nato-f-15s-troops-arrive
It is beyond hypocrisy, or the “tribute vice pays to virtue”. In this month’s “Vanity Fair”, so very well named, there was a sickening puff piece for Samantha Power, in which she claimed her role was to “prevent genocide”. In between picking at a lunch in some fashionable eaterie which in itself would cost two week’s grocery allowance for the average
family, musing on her kids, and flicking her expensively highlighted hair she informed us that this is what “drove her.”
Meanwhile in SE Ukraine and many other places, attempted genocides are occurring thanks to the short-sighted meddling of US interests. This is simply not reported in our media. For the most part they don’t even bother to lie: they just present it all in the same way they do the weather. Some bad stuff boiling up – but don’t worry, it’s not on your coast.
Truly, it is an insult to the brain.
Mr. Saker said:
What the Ukies are doing is a terror campaign of ethnic cleansing which is deliberate and systematic. All that talk about “poor targeting” and “mistakes” is nonsense.
It’s their plan and it will be executed.
But, Porky has assured his overlord that in the Donbas civilians’ safety is a priority. Can’t make this stuff up. Liar. Pants on fire.
Reported in this link::
Porosenko signs an Order to expand police powers
Special means and firearms now can be used without warning
“Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko signed a law Aug. 18 that expands the powers of police in what the country calls the anti-terrorist operation (ATO).”
“The document gives the right to law enforcers to apply without warning measures of physical effect, special means and firearms against persons who are recognized terrorists under the Law of Ukraine [called] ‘On [the] struggle against terrorism,’” a presidential statement said.”
(snip)
[and in this article it is reported; in a phone call with U.S. VP Mr. Joe Biden on Saturday]:
(snip)
“Poroshenko emphasized that the safety of civilians, particularly residents of Donetsk and Luhansk was an absolute priority in the course of the ATO,” the statement said, adding that the peace plan is the only way to establish peace in the Donbas and stability in Ukraine.
(snip)
[emphasis mine]
~ ~ ~ ~
The UN puts civilian deaths at over 2,086 in 2 weeks! –RT.com
Other than this week’s favourite 4 letter word, Is there a descriptor in any human language?
No water. No electricity. No shelter. Are. Not. Absolute. Priorities.
Is there a Ukie peace plan and under whose guarantee?
Volusia county brought a smile to my face Nora.
I live in Central Florida probably 40 miles from you!
Cheers
Dublinmick
WORLD MAP
KEY:
GREEN: countries where media call defenders of Novorossiya “self-defence militia”
RED: countries where media call defenders of Novorossiya “separatists/terrorists”
[ the one green country in Europe is Serbia
………
I’m sorry John, but in Europe, at least in Holland, Germany and Belgium, nobody alls the people of Donbass ‘terrorists’. Seperatists yes. But only Kiev uses the word terrorists.
Kind regards,
Dutch
The Ministry of Truth is working flat out. Just this week we had the “mystery Russian incursion”, seemingly repelled by the Ukraine Army. This was reported in both the UK Guardian and Telegraph only to disappear in a fat five minutes. As the kidz say “Pictures – or it never happened.”
Next we had another little story about UKrainian Customs Inspectors being puzzled by the unusual “aid” from the RF – electricity generators were cited. Hello? Aren’t these towns supposed to have been deprived of power for the last three months?
Then we had “some of the lorries appeared to be empty” – well, I just bet they were after Customs had their cut.
We will die of these lies.
I personaly don’t like Alex Johns, but here is the interesting conversation with Max Kaiser
Max Keiser: It’s like in casinos, there’s a
strategy called the Martingale Betting System,
where you have a losing bet but you double
down on that losing bet, over and over and
over again, thinking that you’re going to win.
I think America is doubling down, once again
on a losing bet – this Russian invasion, more or
less – and I think that’ll be the LAST bet.
I think after that, America goes belly-up.
The dollar loses world reserve status and
commodities; oil, food, prices in this
country are set to double and triple in the
next 3 to 4 years
Video (just over 9 mins):
Max Keiser’s Predictions on WWIII and World Economy
http://www.ForbiddenKnowledgeTV.com/page/26614.html
– Alexandra
P.S. Please share Forbidden Knowledge TV e-mails
and videos with your friends and colleagues.
That’s how we grow. Thanks.
Re: Sergei Kurginyan
The fake nationalist Kurginyan did an interview with Boroday for Novaya Gazeta that Team Banderastan at Interpreter Mag is trumpeting today, along with the disgraced wee-wee selfies ‘ex’ NSA analyst John R. Schindler.
Maybe it’s time somebody in Russia taped Kurginyan getting cash from his NGO slush funds or from abroad and publicized it to show his real masters, especially if its Ahkmetov’s agents acting as the middleman for Kiev and Washington. The whole 5th column in Russia needs exposing, pronto. And yes, I don’t have double standards if American citizens are violating the FARA law and acting as agents of a foreign power that should be exposed in a court of law and the court of public opinion too (I’m looking at all the AIPAC operatives and unregistered Qatari and Saudi agents like Michael Doran of the ‘Brookings Doha Center’ and KSA/Qatari/Israeli asset Michael D. Weiss at Interpreter Mag).
Russia is keeping its powder dry through winter. I think when the first snow falls and Lugansk and Donetsk are bombed out but not secured by the junta ruins whose populations have fled in a mass exodus, Putin won’t have a choice but to take action to prevent a million to 1.5 million citizens of Donbas from fleeing into refugee camps in Rostov region. There is simply not enough housing for these people in Russia even at the summer camps which aren’t set up as winter quarters anyway, and it will be a very brutal winter in Russia and Banderastan. The junta in fact is counting on there being no gas or utilities in the Donbas to force the present faucet flow of refugees to become a busted fire hydrant’s worth of fleeing humanity. Sorry to use a crude analogy but we’re talking about ethnic cleansing as a feature, not a ‘bug’ or incidental result of ‘clashes’ between Ukrainian forces and the NAF.
So yes, I still think Russian intervention will happen, but only in the dead of winter. Where if the EU doesn’t like it, there’s the threat of a real even if temporary gas cutoff. And when Banderastan has completely run out of natural gas outside of the storage tanks being preserved for heating Kiev and Dnepropetrovsk preventing an armed revolution there. The rest of the country including the Southeastern cities like Zaporozhe that aren’t on the Sea of Azov will have no such luck. One wonders too if HAARP actually can accomplish weather manipulation whether the NATO masters will try to ensure Europe has a mild winter as opposed to a brutal one driving down demand for gas. Me thinks that won’t work because Russia has such technologies too in Nizhny Novgorod oblast.
To understand the US, a Hollywood movie called “Men In Black” has the perfect paradigm. There is a giant, monster alien who gets shot, he opens up and there you see a tiny alien at the controls of a giant robot.
The giant robot is the US, and the tiny alien is Israel. The tiny alien doesn’t care if the giant robot dies or not.
The Zionists have been increasing their control over the brainless US since 1913, and are now for all practical purposes in charge of every major category of US society, from Academics, to Hollywood, to the Politicians, and since the rise of Obama, the US military and its nukes. It is a formidable combination of US might and Zionist intentions, but likely quite unstable, and Putin is wise to show caution and care in confronting it.
Looks to me that defeating Novorussia takes so long only because Kiev and Co. do not want it to be defeated too early. From their point of view, if they conquered it too fast, they would only have problems with what to do with the people living there (mostly Russians) and with the industry, which they do need. They would have to go through the usual process of privatization, buying off all the factories only to let them die and fall into ruins, etc., struggling with inhabitants, it takes time and money… It is much more convenient and faster for them, and perhaps cheaper at the end, to take an opportunity and simply destroy it all, and “cleans” the region from its citizens, partly by killing them and partly by forcing them to move, to Russia, for instance. The less people stays there and the less reason for them to stay (lack of jobs), the easier for Kiev and Co. to deal with them. Then they can put their hands on the whole region and do whatever they wish to do there, mainly use its resources, they already started drilling, as far as I know. This would explain, why the military commanders leave their soldiers without orders, or give them stupid orders like sending them without maps into unknown towns, abandon them without food etc.
I also have a funny feeling, which I cannot rationally explain, that they do not mind a lot of casualties within their own army, to the contrary, they see it as a good thing. Perhaps in anticipation of any kind of rebellious movement in the future, it is beneficial for them to get rid of young men able to fight. Just a thought.
Elizabeth
I don’t know about the Ukrainian winter, but this next six months in Southern Europe is going to be critical. Portugal, where I have strong links, has just had to bail-in a major bank to the tune of their entire subsidy from the EU and now the RF has imposed sanctions on Portuguese agricultural imports, in response to the EU sanctions, which the EU was forced into by the US.
Portugal could more or less go under, thanks to this ridiculous attempt by NATO to get their hands on Sevastopol.
I have no words for this. It is criminal.
“But the best example of this was the terror war against Yugoslavia in support of the KLA in Kosovo.”
Compared to what it did to Germany and Japan?
Also, good on someone for mentioning its “Civil War”.
No Fly Zone NOW
In a partial answer to Balazs I will mention several other reasons :
1. Putin’s main immediate enemy is the 5-th column and NGO’s in big cities and state apparatus. It takes time, effort and skill to find them, even more skillful effort to neutralize them. Member of Duma, Fedorov, economist Starikov and number of others analysts did wrote about it and did emphasized it.
2. Direct intervention by Russia is a counterproductive, no matter how many Western willing murderers and oligarchs get eliminated. Their families will never forget that. The idea is that Ukraine must implode by itself and must be seen by entire world that it was entirely western murderous actions that lead to it, while Russia steadily maintains defensive posture. Otherwise, extension of BRICS to other countries of the world would not be successful. Also, Russia avoids ending up with a huge bill of restoring Ukraine. It looks to me that this are Russia’s main strategic objectives: liberation from IMF, World Bank, financial extortion WTO, etc.
3. Creation of an alternative world economic trade system. For that Russia again must appear as sound alternative to the present banksterism.
Regards, Spiral
This talk of Lt. fall and Gen. winter is a double edged sword. The devastated Donbass will be rubble and cut off from heat and water as well
The only solution is a No Fly Zone
I agree. Consider what is happening in the US right now, in Ferguson.the militarized police are cracking down, right of assembly is being suspended. Yanukovych allowed himself to be cowed by negative PR so that the rabble rousers ended up with the upper hand when in fact these hypocrites would never have allowed that to happen on their own turf. Likewise, they are trying to deny Russia the right to take action. Meanwhile they reserve the right to act in their own interests no matter how immoral or brutal the actions they take. We are not talking about that. A no – fly zone would stop the indiscriminate slaughter and that is the right thing to do. Let these Ukie Nazis fight on the ground like real men where they will lose because they are not real men. They are only good for shelling civilians and life sustaining infrastructure. And they are proud of these “victories”? They should be ashamed.
It is nicer now to see that pretty much all news sources start with “Ukraine claims that…”
Perhaps the western press has started to read the comments to their own articles
Finally it becomes clearer to everyone that the west is paying Ukraine to bomb and shoot their own countrymen (or at least people they claim are their own).
This is of course an indefensible policy politically and can’t be maintained for much longer.
The right policy for Russian is to stay out of things – except of course relief aid, which just emphasises that Ukraine is killing its citizens, not aiding them.
If I were Obama or an EU politician right now I’d be wanting to get out of the whole mess as quickly as possible – with the on proviso being not making it obvious just how dumb stupid the west was for ever getting involved with trying to seduce Yanukovych (the worst of the secret sins) or supporting/creating the initial Maidan revolts and promoting the Ukraine leaders.
Partition will happen. Till then it is ethnic cleansing.
It is all the wrong way around. I wonder if the original US plan was to have Yanukovych announce Martial law (or something like that) and then become active in a Western separatist movement.
When we understand that those inflicting civilian terror as a strategy are not the unmentionable Jews but the Goy-hating minority of anti-human criminals deserving public death…when…
…then the World Hate Establishment of Anglo-American satanic societies can be destroyed by frantic humanity. But its power shall remain so long as moral elites remain cowered by our failure to distinguish and separate those whom most Jewish people hate and despise and fear.
@Observer
The time is becoming ripe for when a direct Russian intervention can occur with close to zero “further” impact on Russia.
I couldn’t agree more except the quip about gen X.
We aren’t there yet.
If there’s one thing Putin has above all else it is immaculate timing.
My hunch is it won’t come until winter. I’m not a military expert but that is when the conditions of the Ukie army will be worst, if they don’t disintegrate beforehand.
If Putin chose to seize Novorussia in maybe January, starting with a drive to sever the country in two, all of Russia’s technical and logistical superiority would be many times more pronounced. After Ukie forces are cut off in the east they would likely disintegrate. You can’t dig in so easily in winter and you need steady supplies of everything or fighting becomes impossible.
Already the Ukies have exhausted themselves attempting to pull in Russia asap. They can’t possibly recover and rebuild their army so quickly and fight the Russian army in winter.
Sorry Where-wolf (@00:47),
A typo on my part regarding Gen X, I meant gen Y+, but not generalizing to all members. However why did I make the statement? Because of a very blatant perponderence of 40+ men in the Donbass resistance (visible in most of the videos of the Donbass resistance). When Igor Strelkov-Girkin was asked about this he responded “what can I tell you? MTV has done its damage to our youth too” (something to that effect). If you look at the majority of single men that have sought refuge in Russia, along with women, children, most of them are below 40. Of many young men have volunteered, but they are minority.
This is no accident, the scumbags that use the media as a social engineering tool have carried out a systematic campaign to emasculate and neuter today’s youth. The idea being to produce divided society with the men being passive and ambivalent. Hollywood is filled with scum and so are the media chains that own network/cable entertainmenr channels.
I agree with you that winter would be an even better time for a direct intervention than fall, but I don’t a direct intervention is that likely to be necessary. Ideally Russia would like keep Ukraine intact, federated and unable to integrate with the EU or NATO. Keeping Donbass as part of Ukraine will ensure that Russia will have a veto over Ukrainian foeign policy (thru the deputies abd parties raised from Eastern Ukraine). At the same time this scenario denies even Western Ukraine from being made part of the EU. Finally, Russia can ill afford to absorb the costs of being financially responsible for lifting The Donbass population to Russian levels of per-capita GDP; a Donbass still part of Ukraine allows that region to develop organically and based on their current cost structure. Finally, a weakened but intact Ukraine act a a firm check on Nato expansion as a result of Ukraine acting as a seperating buffer/wall between Russia abd NATO.
I’m simply saying come Q4 2014, Putin can use the threat of a direct invasion in a manner that seriously hurts the interests of the fascist bureaucrats in Brussels and the US Stats Dept. Therefore, these bungling fools must be crapping their pants at the thought of a direct Russian intervention. So this Gives Putin the leverage wave the threat of direct intervEntion if things get out of hand. Putin can achieve far more if he enables the people of Donbass to free themselves by significanlty ramping up covert aid in men(specialists) and materials (weapons & logistical supploes).
Best regards to you.
While I greatly appreciate your devotion to strategy, in my mind there is a moral imperative to stop this slaughter of civilians. No – fly zone now (obviously I am an anonymous female). I am 52, been around for a while, and I can attest to the fact that when one does the right thing, things tend to fall into place. The Kiev campaign is a very cowardly one. It continues because no one will come forward to stop it. History has shown that bullies will press forward with aggression if not met with an equal or greater force.
Now they are blocking South Stream again. I’d like to know what they propose to do this winter. Let’s see them lie their way through this one. Natural gas, unlike food, doesn’t go bad and retains its value. Russia, India and China are huge territories. They can use this energy while developing renewable sources for the distant future. Time is on their side. It is not on the side of the west. The US is of course orchestrating the current strategy. They are blocking South Stream in order to maintain transit through Ukraine which they now are invested in. Along with my firm belief that a no – fly zone is in order, I also have a firm belief that Russia should nix Ukraine as a transit zone entirely. The short term damage to Russia’s economy would not compare to the damage done to Europe. The time to do this is while Europe is still utterly dependent on Russian gas. Donetsk and Luhansk are close enough to where Russia could provide humanitarian relief to these areas alone. Shutting off the gas to Ukraine could wait until winter when it would have the most impact but the no – fly zone must happen now while there are still people left to save.
Btw, thank God for this blog. Keeps me sane.
Susan
One possible reason the US/NATO wants RF to move in, is the ‘we can give them a Vietnam’ scenario, per Brzezinski. This what the Gladio gangs, stay behind groups, are for, causing continual disruption, terrorism, etc. And they are in place. Now that RF knows about this (from decades ago), it is like the ‘after you, no please, I insist’ kind of thing. Because the RF can give the same kind of thing back. And so both sides are playing the non-escalation card, while escalating in various dimensions.
Saker,
Thank you again. And yes to both Putin and Nasrallah — but assuming there is a history, and people left to write it, they’ll both stand out as all-time greats; truly, truly unusual men and just tailor-made for the situations in which they are now engaged. Few countries have ever been lucky enough to have two leaders like that in a row! This has all been just so incredibly informative — and yes, once again the contrast between Russia and us is like night and day. And omigosh the 2000 election must have just blown your mind! (You might have even still “believed” in us then, but that was one hell of an object lesson, to put it mildly.) I’m still chewing on the elites vs. the Czar/people, and the conviction that the people believe their views should be heard at the top. The German peoples had had a longstanding tradition of liberties long before the Thirty Years War, though they lost a lot of them in its wake. (Good word there, wake.) But the Divine Right of Kings pretty much ended with the Glorious Revolution in England and in France with the Enlightenment if not the Revolution — but going back to England it was first Cromwell and then Parliament that began the AZE Reign of Terror. I.e., the elites also, on both sides of the Atlantic. (Hard to think of old Oliver as an elite but in essence, he was; he just didn’t inherit it, though the early bankers didn’t necessarily either.) And our castes, of course, are unofficial — but have nonetheless been omnipresent. Which leads right back to succession… and what you beautifully termed “the subtle art of preparing a successor”. I’m thinking perhaps it might be worthwhile to groom a couple, actually, for a variety of reasons, no? (And I’m also thinking, of course, that also may be part of the problem with our system — certainly neither Bush nor Obama appear to have been very fit, or prepared, to govern, and Clinton, well, let’s not even go there. Let’s just say our selective criteria are ragingly inadequate for the most important position in the entire country… In any case, lately and relatedly, I keep going back to Hobbes and life being “nasty, brutish and short.” When I was young, I really thought we were all pretty much engaged in the process of leaving that behind. O boy o boy, was I ever wrong — but then came VVP!
https://twitter.com/gbazov/status/501534301067165696
Friend of the Saker site Gleb Bazov is reporting 30th Ukie brigade has surrendered with the rest having fled or dead. Even Baghdad Bob of Ukraine Dmitry Tymchuk is admitting 30th has been through hell of GRAD shelling near Saur Mogila and is no longer combat effective while demanding a new commander. Other Ukie brigades including smashed up and replacement-staffed 24th are also at serious risk of encirclement. The new sheriff in town the Russians brought in to command the NAF with Strelkov wasn’t kidding apparently when he said a counteroffensive was imminent and the NAF had received 120 tanks and several hundred trained tanker or artillerymen who’d been training in Russia for four months (that would date back to late April early May when the Ukies started bombing the Donbas).
The force that the Ukies were trumpeting with the NYT proclaiming imminent victory (but not in ‘days’ they said, maybe allowing for a few weeks) that put up the Ukie flag in the Lugansk suburbs is now at serious risk of encirclement. ie getting caught between the defenders of Lugansk and the fresh NAF forces moving in from the south to smash up the Ukie blocking force that broke out of Lugansk airport and was desperately put in place to halt the Russian humanitarian aid convoy.
Military spending has ramped since 98.
http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/world/military-spending-1988-2012/892/
There was a dip from 88 to 98, but the numbers are bigger now than at the end of the Cold war.
So the “give ’em a Vietnam” thing might have something to it, as well as the German interest in it’s MittelEuropa thing, that goes way back. All the industry of Ukraine was slated for removal, long time ago. To remove competition for German industry, (and for another purpose of squeezing RF. But that is backfiring too.)
One thing for sure is the constant use for ramping the fear factor, for any and all purposes.
Significant article in tomorrow’s Colonel Cassad, not yet translated: http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/2014/08/18/ “Восставший Феникс и Ржавая Гвоздика” — “Rising Phoenix and the Rusty Nail (Gvozdik)”, about how a territorial battalion “Phoenix” is being mustered to replace the 79th airmobile brigade, equipped with one rusty 2S1 self-propelled howitzer “Gvozdik.” Because of personnel shortages, the battalion will consist of 300 metal workers, night workers, homeless men, a professor, a retired Spatznaz colonel, and 30 specialists. There’s no one else left in Nikolaevfor for the 3rd mobilization to call up.
The Ukies seem to be scraping the bottom of the barrel. Everyone else and all their equipment have been sent to the Donbass, or the Perekop isthmus to the Crimea.
@ 19 August, 2014 01:02
Yes Putin understood in the age of modern warfare dating back to the US invasion of Iraq and the Israeli defeat at Hezbollah’s hands in 2006 (and the Ukie army is far less competent and well-led than the IDF) that it’s far cheaper and preferable to being the guerilla than the occupier. Putin will never give Z. Bzrezinski his dream of turning eastern Ukraine into a second Afghanistan for Russia instead it has become another Afghanistan for the Ukies. At least many a Ukie conscript has apparently heard the stories about Afghanistan from their fathers and uncles.
Robin Morritt,
Do you think you could watch someone be killed unnecessarily and not be, at the very least, uneasy about it? This is assuming, of course, that Obama did have Bin Laden killed… and even so, given the fact that everyone in that room knew damned well the War on Terror was as phony as a three-dollar bill, at the very least the man should have been caught and tried. (At the very worst, of course, Bin Laden was long gone, dead and buried and they did manage to kill someone, whoever the poor schlub was.) But could you watch that with equanimity, knowing at least the basic premises were lies? I think our culture selects for cold-blooded killers and always has.
Anonymous 22:40,
Nonsense! If you’re offensive to the regular readers, you know it and are a coward; if it’s trolls hitting you, hit ’em back — it’s fun! They’re hardly worth being afraid of, honestly. Otoh, most of them do tend to be afraid — and rightly so.
Dublinmick,
Ah, my dear, if only! ;~) That was Saker talking, not me; the closest I get to Volusia County is the grapefruit (which are delicious). ;~)
Aoife,
Welcome! And yes. And “We will die of these lies” is probably the quote of the day. Five, ten years ago, would you ever have believed it?
Elizabeth,
Welcome also! And omigosh, despite the fact that the Junta and its controllers (i.e., us) are obvious psychopaths, your hypothesis about Kiev not minding casualties bc there’d be fewer military left to rebel… is still chilling to the max and, sadly, probably true.
Did Pope Francis Just Endorse U.S. Airstrikes Against Islamic State Militants in Iraq?
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/08/18/did-pope-francis-just-endorse-u-s-force-against-islamic-state-militants/
I wanted to register the headline. The Pope has nothing to say about the carnage in Palestine but he is 100% behind the Empire in Iraq.
I hope everyone finally understands that the Jesuit Pope is a Wall Street appointee.
All of this including the co-operation of Iran and the US in the still unresolved coup against Maliki are signals that a new grand bargain is working itself out.
For Russia, anything less than full control of Novorussia would be seen as completely unacceptable. If Russia looks set to lose Novorussia they will have no choice but to invade.
I think Putin will wait till January and if no alternative arises he will liberate Novorussia. I think the news around Strelkov suggests planning for this is already underway.
Putin will enlarge the Militia to take Kiev.
I don’t believe he will ever put troops in Ukraine directly.
I think he is building allies in the West Ukraine who will form a national salvation army, join the Militia to unseat the junta.
This will freeze out Poland and NATO, an imperative if Russia is to get off unscathed for the fall of Kiev.
Immediately, the new government will ask Russia for economic aid and security.
Thus, the neo-nazis will be the last of the psychos to be hunted down by Ukrainians using Russian experts and assistance.
Ukraine will remain whole, federated in local regions, de-militarized and ultimately a very feeble nation-state. But it will get a future. Russia and China will rebuild it. It will deliver food as its major export.
All the oligarchs will leave, die, be killed or imprisoned.
I have stated that Putin must have Ukraine. He will get Ukraine with Ukrainian help.
These masses of people do not want a war. They want the theft of their livelihood and future stopped. Only Putin can deliver what they want.
Real hatred of people is hard to maintain. It takes constant brainwashing or a psychopathic personality. I don’t believe 42 million Ukrainians are so deep into hate that they will fight a war they can’t win. The war they can win is against the junta. The Militia will lead the way and the sensible Ukies will join them to clear out the criminals.
Hi Saker, I have been visiting your site for a while and also spend quite a lot of time searching for articles on the situation in Ukraine. I have been frustrated at the lack of intervention by Russia to stop the genocide in Novorossia. I recently came across this article, Syncreticstudies.com/2014/07/09/Novorossiya-the-propoganda-war-methods-and-framework/.It seems RF has a clear stategy and novorossiya will eventually be recognised as a new state. This is my first time ever post, so I hope it works.
re:China
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-18/chinese-troops-invade-25km-india-chinese-territory-go-back
Hello Saker,
Life is a sequence of surprises, some pleasant or interesting, some less so. And when I read this article from zerohedge I immediately remembered one part of my life where I learned a great deal about the Chinese mindset. And since I admire your site a lot I thought that I would share my musings with you. I realize however that these thoughts may seem somewhat outlandish to those of us who think that the Chinese are more or less „like us“ – and if you should want to censor this comment I will certainly not hold it against you.
Our family has a (still ongoing) 30 years old good relationship with a Chinese family and this has been a huge education for all of us. We have learned that the Chinese mindset is very very different from ours. Major differences are for example:
– The Chinese tradition does not accept the idea of helping others: this idea is actively refused because they consider that the one who helps generally becomes a victim.
– In a more general way the Chinese do not feel responsible for others – everybody is responsible for himself and that’s all. So for example if you let yourself be deceived by somebody then the damage that you suffer is your own fault because you did not pay enough attention.
– A third important factor that the Chinese have a strong feeling of racial superiority. This is in some ways understandable because they are one of the two oldest surviving cultures on Earth (the other being India) but this feeling of superiority allied with much military power is an extremely dangerous combination for other cultures. And btw for the Chinese „racism“ is normal and is equated to patriotism.
This makes for an extremely competitive and aggressive culture – and I was glad to read in an article about SCO that Putin seems to understand the danger posed by “aggressive Han-populations on Russia’s borders” .
As for India this country is the anti-thesis of China in a cultural sense: they are tolerant (all of their religions are tolerant which is no mean achievement), they accept other viewpoints and feel partly responsible for others (I’m not talking about Indian capitalists here :-) ). Before China’s invasion of Tibet there was no direct access between India and China. But China has now created 2 accessways: one (very expensive) tunnel between Tibet and India, and another mountainous route to the NW of India. Why is China so interested in a direct access? My personal interpretation is that that they view India as weak – just as they viewed Tibet as weak because Tibet wanted only to meditate and pray and not to beef up its military.
In some ways I see remarkable similarities between the Jewish and the Chinese cultures:
both are extremely money-conscious
both are extremely conscious of what they personally want and totally disinterested in what others want
both are extremely international – there are Chinese colonies in every country of the planet.
both share a feeling of superiority – religious in one case and racial in the other
Conclusion?
Finding common ground with these 2 cultures is going to be a challenge.
@Larchmonter445 01:48:
There is no such thing as Ukrainians or a Ukrainian nation. That is just Western/fascist propaganda.
There are just (1) Ukro-fascists; (2) Russians who have been brainwashed into thinking they are something called “Ukrainians”; (3) Russians who are aware that they are still Russians.
Anonymous said…
“The giant robot is the US, and the tiny alien is Israel.”
19 August, 2014 00:09
LOL.
When I think of the IL-US “partnership”, Master-Blaster from the MadMax “Beyond the Thunderdome” immediately comes to mind.
In a movie loaded with symbolism, I think the analogy works on so many levels that I almost suspect the writers intended it.
Erebus
This has to be the saddest Anna newscast I’ve seen.
“Dear Nora,
I think that this entire panic over 50’000 Ukie infiltrators about to begin a new Maidan in Petersburg is a canard from the Dugin-Fedorov-Limonov camp who, as I mentioned here in the past, a) have a beef with Putin’s handling of the war in Novorussia and b) want to create a sense of urgency/panic inside Russia. So let’s look into the implications of this idea.
“
– With respect Saker but I do not believe that those 2 points are correct at all. I respect your position but this isn’t about a “successful Maidan or even an overthrow”. This isn’t about not agreeing with Putin or wanting to incite panic.
Putin does have good control, loyalists with strong support, a strong GRU/FSB but:
“
b) It implies that there is an agenda, a message, an idea which these circles could generate which would have enough “traction” to get people to join the protests. Except that Putin’s popularity is at 87%. “
– This does not matter. The western Axis cares not if the local populous will rise up or not. This is Wag the Dog. They will show Pro Putin supporters and turn them into Anti Putin Protests in the Media if they have to. They will interview someone mentioning Putin and Russia in a positive light and will reedit it to fit their needs. As has been done by media before. Internal Russian consumption of this doesn’t mean as much as the Western consumption of this.
“c) One idea mentioned is that if Putin does not act in Novorussia there would be a “patriotic Maidan” demanding that Putin intervene or even that Putin leave. Except that 67% of Russians (iirc) are opposed to any intervention in this civil war.”
– This is a red herring. How much support did Gaddafi have? Does anyone remember the doctored media of the so called “protests”?! All it took is a small group of people in a square and a correct camera angle to make it look huge adding the usual western media spin.
“d) This idea also overlooks the single most powerful tool used by Putin to literally asphyxiate the opposition the last time it took to the streets. The pro-Putin people literally used the Ukie Maidan as a bogeyman saying that “look at the Ukraine, look at Russia – do we really want a Maidan here?”. People got so freaked out at the though that huge pro-regime crowds took to the streets.”
– Normal people do not simply attend these rallies and neither did they in other countries. Sure there will be efforts to bring in people from other countries and it will not be as easy as in the Ukraine. But huge popularity means nothing to the western media.
Putin and Russia will be betrayed in a negative light no matter what using whatever means necessary as long as it fits the narrative.
This is not about an overthrow or creating a “Maidan/Protest”. This is about the destabilization of a countries image which will in turn allow western efforts into the build up around Russia.
Part 1
Part 2
Ukraine believe it or not is peanuts in the eyes of the AngloAmericans.
“Zbigniew Brzezinski recommends how Russia should be militarily weakened and intimidated. He is convinced that the best way to achieve it is by destabilizing its border regions”
“Zbigniew Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of the story, the CIA began to assist mujahedeen in the year 1980, that is, after the invasion of the Soviet army against Afghanistan on December 24, 1979. But the truth that remained secret until today is quite different: it was on July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed his first order on the secret assistance to Kabul’s pro-Soviet regime opponents. That day I wrote a memorandum to the President in which I told him that that assistance would cause the Soviet intervention (…) we did not force the Russian intervention, we just, conscientiously, increase the intervention possibilities.”
http://www.voltairenet.org/article30038.html
The handbook hasn’t changed much at all.
Protests in 2012 Moscow did happen and this is a fact.
The protests this time around will be harder to create but this is why they will try to also organize them in other cities unlike 2012 (Moscow only).
“In 1989, Brzezinski quit his job at Columbia University where he taught since 1960 to work on Ukraine’s independent status plan. This marks the beginning of his compromise to prevent the resurgence of Russia as a superpower. He defended Russia’s integration to the Western system and the “geopolitical multiparty system” in the territory of the former Soviet Union.”
This article is from 10 years ago.
The plan is on fast forward. The West has skipped the strategy on Iran to get to Russia. The markets must be in worse shape than people are admitting to.
Hi Saker, I have been visiting your site for a while and also spend quite a lot of time searching for articles on the situation in Ukraine. I have been frustrated at the lack of intervention by Russia to stop the genocide in Novorossia. I recently came across this article, Syncreticstudies.com/2014/07/09/Novorossiya-the-propoganda-war-methods-and-framework/.It seems RF has a clear stategy and novorossiya will eventually be recognised as a new state. This is my first time ever post, so I hope it works.
.Hi Saker, I have been visiting your site for a while and also spend quite a lot of time searching for articles on the situation in Ukraine. I have been frustrated at the lack of intervention by Russia to stop the genocide in Novorossia. I recently came across this article, Syncreticstudies.com/2014/07/09/Novorossiya-the-propoganda-war-methods-and-framework/.It seems RF has a clear stategy and novorossiya will eventually be recognised as a new state. This is my first time ever post, so I hope it works.
Larchmont,
I suspect you are right about the rebels taking Kiev, but the problem with your view is that Russia has been playing a soccer match with the West. In the first half, Russia decided not to put people who could run on the field, and the score is then 23-0 at half time. At the start of the second half, the US pulled off a coup, and somebody in the Kremlin noticed that they would be better off with players who could play. So they put some decent players on the field and took the Crimea and set up some semblance of pro-Russian groups in the Donbass. So now the score is 23-2. Then, the opponent realizes that he is no longer playing zombies, and he decides to get organized. This is closer to where we are today.
In other words, a large part of the Ukraine is anti-Russian, even in Kharkov. I met someone from there who hated Russia not that long ago, though I think he got his indoctrination from years in Kiev.
So the Russian desire over the years for a friendly, non-NATO Ukraine where Russia gets to use the Crimean bases is incompatible with an anti-Russian population. For some reason, Moscow didn’t seem to think about this much. A bribe to an oligarichical politician to extend the lease on the bases didn’t make him your friend if he put his money in a British bank.
A more realistic approach might be to smash the industries and infrastructure that support an anti-Russian population, in order to drive as many as possible to move to Lvov or the West. Leave Kiev mostly depopulated for a few years while getting food and electricity to where you want them. Let Poland and Germany get a few million new immigrants.
@ Paul II: Sounds like you’ve never been to Europe, or at least don’t understand anything about it.
Saker,
Isn’t the choice more “What kind of a Cold War do you want?”, not if you will have one? There is no way to stop a neighboring country from war if they want it. What could Poland or the USSR have done to prevent Germany from attacking in WWII?
Perhaps you can explain the Russian mindset better, but it seems mystifying that they essentially declare war on the US and EU over things, such as Syria/Iran and the EU energy package, as well as the Crimea, and then think that peace is possible. The idea of a zone from Lisbon to the Pacific is war, and a few have said this, such as Hillary Clinton. I just don’t get it, same as with the idea of a militarily neutral Ukraine. That requires Russia abandon the bases in the Crimea.