Dear friends,
It is a huge pleasure for me to submit to you a detailed analysis made by “CDN” of the circumstances of the downing of MH17.
You will notice that CDN’s analysis does not agree with my own hypothesis. The difference being that CDN does have the professional expertise (accident investigation) to write such a report while I do not. Still, CDN has specifically asked me to “please encourage readers to be critical of my analysis” which I indeed encourage you to do: his analysis does not pretend to be The One And Only Truth but instead a basis for discussion.
You can download his full report by clicking on either one of the following links:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByibNV3SiUoobnpCVDduaHVORHM/edit?usp=sharing
http://www.mediafire.com/view/61qa99yt6v3dq64/MH17Analysis_Parts_1_and_2.pdf
I am getting increasingly frustrated and angry at the fact that clearly the Dutch and the British, obviously under the orders of Uncle Sam, are sitting on the data of the flight data recorders and not releasing them. At the very least, the following countries have the recordings of the radio contacts between MH17 and the Kiev ATC:
1) The junta’s SBU
2) The USA
3) Russia
and then two more countries – France and Switzerland – which probably have them too. Even if these recordings are destroyed, there are enough people out there who by now who know what happened. The truth will come out sooner or later. In the meantime, the main task is not to discover The One And Only Truth, but first to disprove the complex of lies of the Empire and, then, to gradually get close and closer to the truth.
We all owe a huge debt of gratitude to CDN who produced a professional-grade report and made it available for us for the sole reward of advancing the cause of truth and justice. I am personally deeply grateful to CDN for choosing this blog to release his report.
I ask you all to share with us your comments, especially your critical ones, to make it possible for CDN to refine his analysis. This would be the best way to thank him for his truly excellent work.
The Saker
Saker Message:
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Mr. Pragma @07 August, 2014 01:55
– “Which leads me to the netherlanders, who are so frigging quiet and “rational” and want to wait for the results of the investigations.”
– “So, there’s a hundred or so killed netherlanders but they stay calm and reasonable, except for venting anger against Putin. Uhum.”
…
Mr Pragma,
A hundred or so? Are you serious? You expect Dutch people to report in and fill out all the blanks for you?
The official count of ritually slaughtered Dutch in this diabolical Imperial mass psy-op is 196.
There ya go.
Since it is blatantly obvious that the MSM are not interested in researching and reporting on the true cause of this tragedy, instead the MSM unanimously engage in an anti-Russia propaganda war, what makes you think that you will be spoon-fed the details on the suffering and grieve of the relatives and friends of the victims?
In a social-Darwinian Empire the dead are unfit.
The dead, their relatives and friends are a mere statistic.
When you are Dutch, or when you understand the Dutch language, you have acces to a ‘wealth’ of information which indeed confirms that actual real people boarded the MH17, these people haven’t returned home yet.
Lumi @08 August, 2014 01:56
I figure, the rest of the world, after thourough research, relies on whatever they deduce from what is being posted on London Tavistock owned fringe websites like Godlike Productions.
***
One way or the other, the Dutch government is both a pawn and a player in this geopolitical freakshow.
Here is how the Dutch Gov manages a ‘situation’..:
Immediately after the crash the Dutch government assigned a huge team of so-called “family-investigators”. Every family (loved ones and friends of the victims) is being ‘managed’ by two investigators allegedly to brief them, among other things, about the identification procedures and to aid them with practical and legal issues..
https://www.slachtofferhulp.nl/Corporate/Calamiteiten/Vliegramp-Oekraine/Over-de-identificatie/De-familierechercheurs/
Some Dutch Gov info on MH17 in English:
http://www.government.nl/issues/mh17-incident
***
In the meantime:
It is being noticed that among the few people who are actually holding on to civilisation as we know it are indeed the people of east Ukraine.
Press statement by Pieter-Jaap Aalbersberg, head of the recovery mission 05-08-2014:
http://www.government.nl/issues/mh17-incident/news/2014/08/05/press-statement-by-pieter-jaap-aalbersberg-head-of-mission.html
“It would seem the local population and authorities have recovered many human remains themselves after the crash of flight MH17. This may explain why the experts have so far mainly found personal belongings.”
“Our mission cannot succeed without the support off the local and regional population and authorities. We are and remain very grateful for that.“
Press statement by Pieter-Jaap Aalbersberg, head of the recovery mission 06-08-2014:
http://www.government.nl/issues/mh17-incident/news/2014/08/06/press-statement-by-pieter-jaap-aalbersberg-head-of-the-recovery-mission.html
“Residents did come to hand in the personal belongings of victims, and statements were taken from some people. They provide an insight into how local residents and the emergency services recovered human remains shortly after the crash. It appears that they did so with great care and sensitivity. We are grateful for their help and the respect they showed. Today, again, the search team saw how deeply affected and committed many local residents remain.“
***
Looks like this is how it will come out as..
Seems there are a lot of internal squabbles with each oligarch trying to take power and they will pin it on one of them.
US intelligence has been instructed to find the scapegoat since the narrative that the Rebels and Russia did it is not holding up.
So they are now saying extremists in the UAF was trying to get Putin, they did not have much time and shot down the wrong plane.
“Eyewitnesses also reported seeing one or two Ukrainian jetfighters near the airliner right before it was blown out of the sky. Two theories are that the jetfighters were trying to identify the plane or were responsible for finishing it off if the missile failed to do the job.
An independent analysis by an expert on the Buk systems, who has reviewed the Russian evidence, says it shows that one of the Ukrainian anti-aircraft batteries was in position to take down the Malaysian airliner by inflicting damage consistent with the wreckage that has so far been recovered from the plane.
As the pieces of this puzzle fill in, the image that emerges is of a possible Ukrainian ambush of a jetliner heading into Russian airspace that had markings very similar to President Putin’s official plane.
“
But we already know this as a false flag operation to save the polish brigae that was trapped near the russian border. But the scapegoat seems to be Kolomoisky.
A new Ukrainian complot theory: they claim that the Russians wanted to shoot down a Russian civilian plane and use that incident as an excuse for an invasion. What went wrong is that there are two villages with the name Pervomaisk in the Donetsk region and they took the wrong one and as a consequence shoot the wrong plane.
http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.nl/2014/08/ukrainian-sbu-comes-with-conspiracy.html?m=1
Are we assuming the MH17 was shot down by a BUK? I didn’t think it was.
From several articles, including one by the OSCE, whose observers were actually the first at the crash site, both sides of the cockpit show entry and exit holes from heavy machine gun fire, of which the SU25’s were capable, with an especially dense set of punctures near where the pilot was seated. This means the plane was being shot at from both sides. In fact, the OSCE observer said the bullet holes came not from directly below or sideways, but at an angle from below on both sides, consistent with the hypotheses that the SU25’s did the shooting. The OSCE observer said these impacts would be enough to tear the plane apart.
Did I miss something? I hope not.
Anyone have more information? And sorry I have lost the link, it was several days ago.
The main issue I challenge in the report is the out-of-range part. The intercept point is set way too far out, and presumes 20-30 km due east flight afterwards. Rather, considering the winds (NNW it seems) it came apart right in the middle of the debris field, and was hit I think shortly before. See here and
here. I’m on Petri’s team at ACLOS, but I’m pretty sure it was a false-flag unit with a BUK, in that spot, that downed the jet. If CDN can see this, cool.
here is an interesting analysis (in french) that i suggest to all the readers of this blog:
http://reseauinternational.net/vol-mh-17-abattu-avion-chasse-ukrainien/
I followed a slightly different approach to determine the actual missile impact to the plane. I looked up where we could find the earliest debris that was found (NW to the village of Polove) and measured the distince the the presumable BUK lauch pad (south between Torez and Snizhne). When I measured these in Google Earth, it is about 37 km. This would represent the closest distance a plane could have been. This does not count for the time the missile actually flies before hitting the target adding another 2.5 km to the distance, as the article shows. However, I expect that there is some sort of engagement time where the object haas to be correctly identified and a decision has to be made. You need at least 10 sec I guess, even if you have predetermined that you shoot anything you see. That would add another 2.5 km to the range of the radar. I guess that an ‘indisputable’ distance between time of missile and launch and the MH17 would be 40km, falling out of reach of the rebel BUK missile launcher. The question is what the 35 km radar limit on the BUK specifications really means. Is it realy the technical limit of the radar, or the functional reach of the entire system.
Further a remark on the socalled rotten corpses. This could well be the smell that is released when the content of the bowels is spilled. I attended an autopsy as a student once, and I must say, I can still remember its horrible smell. In this case, it was a cancer patient that had her bowels leaking in the last stages. It is probably not nice to hear for the families of the victims, but it is worse than having conspiracies about rotten corpses going around.
Last, I saw some presumed bullet holes that can be easily identifies as the places where some bolts that attached the (outer and inner?) lining of the plane. They have an edged border to let the bolt sink in the material, giving a smooth service. In other photo’s you see the same holes and patterns.
I just read the french article cited and I now wonder why other possiblities such as a small explosive device in the cockpit area are seemingly not discussed. It could be relaively small, intended just for creating a hole and killing pilots and electronic equipment. Not so easily rejected I guess, as I understand that there were also exit holes found. Maybe someone with real knowledge about the subject can shine a light on it?
The bomb hypothesis would also give rise to other theories, as a connection between the flight MH17 and MH370, being the same type of plane. Maybe the first could have represented a botched attempt. Two similar type planes that would have been visiting the same airports. Would it be difficult to build a small bomb speciclly made for that type of plane? Maybe MH370 bomb was too small to crash the plane but only kill the pilots. People on MH370 were on their way to AMS, after a short stop (or transfer) from Peking. Maybe the plane would have been over the Ukraine area later that day? At the time of disappearance of the MH370, the Krim crisis just had arrived and would have created an even bigger impact.
The bomb hypthesis would also explain the silence in the media. Maybe it is established that it was not a BUK missile, that it was also not shot done by canon fire and that only a bomb remains as possibility.
Hoping that this can be a first repository of information.
The following link from flightradar shows the replay of the flight MH17 (a little bit macabre I must say). If you zoom in at the last known signal you will see that the flight ends at the town of Snizhne. This cannot be accurate as the map of debris (second link) shows that plenty of debris was found earlier along the flight path, starting north-west of Polove close to Ol’Kohovatka, and from there all the way to N-Roszypne and from there in an angle to the main crash place at Hrabove. Assuming that the slowest parts of debris would have traversed only some 100 meters after being torn from the plane, the site of impact seems above Ol’kohovatka.
The flight path ends above the town of Snizhne, was also the place of the rumoured sightings of the rebels’ BUKs. Wrong interpretation of early releases data I guess.
http://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/mh17/#3d6095b
http://www.rijksoverheid.nl/bestanden/documenten-en-publicaties/kaarten/2014/08/09/kaart-vliegramp-mh17/20140809-mh17-kaart-fasering-1600.gif
On the similarities between MH370 and MH17. They both came from the same Malaysia Air fleet of about 25 777-200 series. Each plane would operate on most of the international routes of Malaysian airways, and all the planes would share maintenance sites and airports. Their disappearance is apparently without mayday signals and involved a change of intended path.
Imagine someone has discovered a way to hijack a 777 by first releasing a gas that would kill the pilots, then takeover the automatic pilot and detonate a small charge when needed. And MH370 was just a test flight …
Interesting post on the possibility it was a MiG29. Also, the author claims that a proximity-fuswd missile would produce damage over a larger part of the plane, since it explodes at 50 meters.
http://english.pravda.ru/world/ussr/13-08-2014/128268-boeing_crash_ukraine-0/
Again, by now the experts would have been able to determine the exact damage to the plane. I also expect that the Russians will have taken enough photographs and samples to make conclusions.
I am curious to know why there is only a single hypothesis taken into account, that of a missile… The exact same results (fragments scattered over a large area) happen if a bomb is detonated on board. A missile is not the only method to cause a massive decompression of an aircraft. It looks like the media did a great job intoxicating everybody with the ‘shot by a missile’ scenario. Nobody has the proof of a missile being shot, no reliable witness saw a missile flame or smoke trail path, although everything happened in broad day light. The ‘analysis’ presented in this article is very sketchy and far from the objectivity of a thorough scientific investigation. In conclusion, I suggest taking into account ALL possibilities that could cause such an accident. The most important thing is TO PUT PRESSURE ON INVESTIGATION TEAM because they promised to release the black boxes data on August 1st. Today is August 22nd and my trust in UK is ZERO.
@Albert NL
interesting analysis and by far the best explanation yet. And it makes also sense now why Poland suddenly changed their political position about Russia.
It is clear that Russia still have the secondary radar data (military radar) as joker.
This is a bloody game – and no one tells the truth.
It makes me feel sad to see that no one is interested in clarification anymore. One month is gone and even the independent medias are getting quiet.
It was shot down by firing 30mm fighter jet cannon from both sides into the cockpit.
The position of The Netherlands is important and far from trivial. The problem is that our Minister of Foreign Affairs, Frans Timmermans, has been very pro Ukrainian in the last year. He has been two times to Kiev to support the ‘pro-Western’ government there. He was the first to imply that the rebels shot down the plane, stereotyping the Russian population as people that steal from the dead. If it is learned that not the rebels, but the Ukranians (i.e. Timmermans’ friends) would have shot down the plane, the position of Timmermans would be untenable. It is for his personal benefit that Ukraine will not be accused.
Timmermans is known to be an extremely ambitious and narcissistic man that likes to be in the attention. He has met Obama twice this year, flew twice to the Ukraine and also visited Israel. After more than a decade of opposition to buying 35 Joint Strike Fighters, he changed his mind in the Summer of 2013. It is not unlikely that Frans TImmermans has been under the influence of people in higher places, he was like a blushing school boy next to Obama. He may be the type to do anything for a high European position.
The Dutch press hardly mentions the MH17 investigation. Instead of asking when the results will be finally ready, it is now mentioned that the results will be ‘already’ available at the end of August. The most likely result of the investigation seems to be that we will never be sure but probably the rebels did it. The rebels have concealed the evidence by now, is the general mood. It would be the best result for our government.
As for the non-disclosure, what I understood from the offical announcement is the evidence will not integrally be made public, but only the relevant pieces. That is a grey area but still, it does not mean that they have a non-disclosure contract signed. I think it would be reasonable to expect that the accused party is allowed to do a counter-investigation. However, the final report will probably not be accusatory as Russia would demand the evidence.
My hope is that Dutch investigators will speak up when the evidence is concealed. If the team concludes there was 30 mm canon fire involved, that an emergency call was made by the pilots or damage was not likely to be BUK. some people may bring this out in the open. Most likely, each investigator is only involved in separate part of the investigation and the final report only discussed in a small circle.
Yesterday, Friday 30/8, there were reports about the non-disclosure agreement that The Netherlands have signed regarding MH17. Apparently, it was signed early August by Belgium, Ukraine, Australia and The Netherlands, but not by Malaysia. Questions were raised in parliament about the specifics of the contract, but also why this was only communicated now to the parliament. Tables are turning and one of our main ‘opinion magazine’ Elsevier has published two critical articles:
-‘Stealing thugs’ were in reality the Ukraine’s Disaster Relief. (‘Stelend tuig’ MH17 was in werkelijkheid rampendienst Oekraïne). Our foreign affairs minister Timmermans used this in his UN speech, some thug stealing a ring from a finger’. We don’t even know if it was a ring, let alone if it was stolen. I myself was shocked that both our Foreign Affairs minister and Prime Minister resorted to these classical propaganda images where ethnic groups are dehumanized (“they even steal from the dead”) that are so similar to the anti-semitic propagand by Nazi Germany. Anyway, people slowly start to ask themselves, if the rebels did not do it, it would have been the Ukrainians, the friends of our Foreign Minister.
-What secret agreement was signed by the Netherlands regarding flight MH17? (Welke geheime overeenkomst sloot Nederland over vlucht MH17?). It was about time that some journalist would start asking the right questions, but it illustrates the changing atmosphere in The Netherlands. When I read the comments, about 90% was very critical towards our government. For a weekly like Elsevier, this is quite special. After 6 weeks more and more people start to wonder about the evidence for the involvement of the separatist. And it seems that people start to realize it could be the Ukrainians.
http://www.elsevier.nl/Politiek/achtergrond/2014/8/Welke-geheime-overeenkomst-sloot-het-kabinet-over-vlucht-MH17-1587593W/
http://www.elsevier.nl/Buitenland/achtergrond/2014/8/Stelend-tuig-MH17-was-in-werkelijkheid-rampendienst-Oekraine-1587612W/
Just read the preliminary report, which contained actually less information than the analysis in this blog post. No effort to exclude missiles or gun fire, not even a remark on entry and exit holes, let alone 30 mm holes. All they say is ‘high energy objects that penetrated the aircraft from the outside’. No attempts were made to show where these objects came from, and radar data was not used to show that it was a BUK or not. Nothing on the flight recorders, nothing special on the ATC.
Open to any speculation on who did it. The newspaper all reported the circumstantial evidence that civilians saw Russians unloading a BUK systems and placed these articles under the report, carefully insinuating that the Russians did it. That will be the end of it I guess, we blamed the ones that we wanted to blame and we, the Dutch are satisfied with it. Minister of Foreign affairs got his high profile job in the European Union.
In the meantime, it turns out that the Dutch mission was actually quite sloppy. We forgot to ask the Ukrainian rescue team what they already had done, but instead blaming the Ukrainians with stealing from the dead. I cannot believe that detailed photographs were not made during the rescue mission (also of course by the Russians). We don’t want the truth, apparently.
But on more important news, Apple is going to release something big tonight and a small plane crashed in Colombia.
The investigation on MH17 is getting more and more surrealistic. We know that the Russians asked for a thorough investigation, but now also the separatists openly wonder why the Dutch do not start with the investigation. The area is safe, but no one wants to investigate. Of course there were many opportunities to safely investigate the area. Reporters could freely take photographs and it would have been easy to document the wreckage better. I would expect a detailed reconstruction of the damage of the shrapnel. A BUK with proximity fuse would leave a very distinct pattern of damage and the investigation could have been based on photograps only. I also wonder why there have been no efforts to look for fragments of the BUK in the area. Based on the wreckage site, it can be quite well reconstructed where the explosion should have been. A BUK missile weighs about 750 kg, if it explodes into 3000 pieces we average weight of the shapnel is still 250 gram. I would think that many of these parts could be found close to the first pieces of the plane that were found (i.e. close to the cockpit if I understand it correctly).
The reality is that we do not want to do the investigation properly. The Dutch do not want to send people to investigate as long as the situation is regarded as unsafe. Unless we get a full clear, we will not send people. We will never get this confirmation because the area is controlled by the separatists and we refuse to negotiate with them because we don’t recognize them. Reasoning is smart but deceitful, because we know the conditions to investigate will never be met. The refusal to talk to the rebels is strange, of course you can negotiate with the rebels without formally recognizing them as a political entity. Also, we could have sent many people already to investigate, we can bear some risk of course, after all we are talking about the murder of 300 people. The main risk in my opinion for the investigators would be (another) false flag by the Ukrainians/NATO to deliberately kill some investigators.
In the meantime, we are still accusing the seperatists and the Russians. The mainstream media continue to state that the plane was likely shot down by seperatists and the lead investigators stated that a ground to air missile was the most likely cause. I don’t know why Russia does not put more pressure on the investigation. They could easily put extra sanctions for instance as long as their questions are not answered. Turn the tables so to speak. They could have the moral upper hand and exploit it. To be continued.
Where are parts 3-5 of this anlaysis as described in the introduction? I only see parts 1 & 2 in the download??
I wonder if MH370 has connection to MH17?
http://www.youtube.com/user/BMHC2CSi/search?query=MH370
http://www.abeldanger.net/
Malaysian government didn’t care to prevent another airplane going to be attack support NWO Illuminati WWIII.