One of the things which always drives me crazy is that ironclad belief that Americans have that they are “the best”, and so are their country, their army and, of course, their special forces. None of that is true, of course, but it especially not true in the real world of special operations, where the actual record of the US special forces is, at best, very average and, at worst, terrible. I have met a lot of special forces types, I have worked with a Deputy Commander of Delta, I have become a friend of a Colonel of the Spetsnaz Vympel, I have had the chance to spend an entire night with Spetsnaz GRU operators, and I have had an Israeli-American specialist who worked with most of the best known special forces as a teacher during a full semester-long seminar dedicated to the study of military coups and how they are organized and executed. But most of what I heard from them, I cannot share. Today, however, I want to share something different, but not totally irrelevant: a comparison of police/SWAT special forces.
The good news about police/SWAT special forces is that info about them is rarely classified and, to the extend that it is, it is nothing like the crazy high level secrecy surrounding military special forces. So I will make a possibly controversial assumption, but one which makes sense to me: a country with top level police/SWAT special forces is unlikely to have clueless military special forces and vice-versa. True, police operation are very different from military ones, but SWAT units are typically rather “para-militarized” (not English, but you know what I mean) and there is some movement between these units: somebody in US special forces might then join a SWAT team and somebody with strong SWAT experience might end up training military special forces in certain aspects of their work. If anything, the example of the British SAS shows that many such “military” units are also used in police operations (usually under the “anti-terrorist” heading)
Now, before I get flamed by those who served in the military, I will immediately concede that the performance of, say, the Tuscon city police SWAT team says very little about the capabilities of the CIA SAD/SOG just as the performance of the OMON of Norilsk says nothing about the capabilities Zaslon SVR, if only because they are vastly different in their purpose and operations. I understand that, but since I have no way of comparing the CIA SAD/SOG and the Zaslon SVR, or Delta to “A” FSB or any other more or less secret units, I will compare the best I can: “special forces” of the mostly police/SWAT types.
For several years now, a competition of such special forces has been organized in Jordan and the 2015 edition has recently concluded. Here is a short report about this competition translated and subtitled by my friend and “brother in arms” Tatzhit Mikhailovich:
Interesting no?
Not only was this year’s winning team from Russia, but it was a team from Chechnia! Those who paid attention to the video, probably noticed that while the operators looked very typically Chechen, their trainers were typically Slavs. Turns out that the trainers are from the FSB special anti-terrorist unit “A” (often, but mistakenly, called “Alpha”). Here is a photo of the Chechen Spetsnaz Team which won the top place:
(Notice the “Putin” Tshirt they are all wearing)
It is also interesting to look at how the other teams performed (see overall scores chart):
At the top we have the Russian Chechens. Followed by the Chinese. The Chinese, by the way, won in 2013 and 2014. Then Jordanians, Lebanese and other Chinese teams. But do you see who is completely missing? Yes, no USA at all. No British either, only the Canadians scored a very decent 8th place.
Now, of course, this proves nothing. There are, in reality, many such special forces competitions organized worldwide. In Russia, for example, it was the Belarussian team which won last year, even though no Belarussian team has made the top 10 in this competition. Maybe they did not even attend?
Maybe the Americans have all their best units busy with real word operations, or maybe they just had no interest in this competition. Or maybe the US just send some third-tier SWAT team from “Goose Crotch, Arkansas”. Who knows?
There was a similar competition near Orlando, FL, recently and there the Russians still came ahead of the USA in most categories, but at least the locals did better. So this is a case by case thing, not a rule.
The only *real* measure of the capabilities of any country’s special forces is real war. Nothing else proves anything.
Still, I wanted to at least illustrate the fact that this constant mantric “USA #1” is really based only on propaganda (mostly Hollywood movies and electronic games) and nothing else. In real life, be it competitions or history (Desert One, Grenada, Panama, Afghanistan, Yemen, etc.) the USA is not even in the top 10. And the only reason why so many Americans believe in the superiority of their forces, is simple crass ignorance. Nothing else.
The Saker
UPDATE: Tatzhit Mikhailovich just emailed me and wrote:
One note – there is another link in my video description, with listing of participants (the website looks dated, so it may be not entirely correct)
7th Annual Warrior Competition, April 19th – 23rd , 2015
It tells us the USA team was 2d Marine Special Operations Battalion
US sent Marines, 2nd Marine Special Operations Battalion
http://warriorcompetition.com/home/index.php/7th-annual-warrior-competition,-april-19th-–-23rd-,-2015
Country Unit
Afghanistan Afghan National Army Special Operations Command (ANASOC)
Afghanistan GDPCU
Afghanistan GCPCU
Afghanistan MOI
Bahrain Royal Special Operations Battalion /24
Brunei Darussalam Special Forces Regiment, Royal Brunei Armed Forces
Canada Canadian Special Operations Regiment
China Assault Hawk Commando Unit of the PAPF
China Lingnan Special Operation Unit of the PAPF Guangdong Corps
Colombia Comando de Operaciones Especiales (CCOES)
Czech Republic 102nd Recce Bn
Greece Police Counter Terrorist Unit /EKAM
Greece Special Forces Training Center
Iraq MOI – Counter Terrorism Unit
Iraq Iraqi Counter Terrorism Service
Jordan King Hussein bin Ali Brigade Special Mission 30 – Team 1
Jordan Royal Guards
Jordan GID Team
Jordan SFB 101
Jordan King Abdullah II Special Forces Brigade HQ / Royal 37
Jordan Police Special Operations – Unit 14
Jordan Police Special Operations – Support Unit 30
Jordan Police Special Operations – Female Section
Jordan Special Battalion 71
Kazakhstan SOF 22750 Military Unit
Kazakhstan Kazakhstan – NSCSF 61329
Lebanon IDSF
Lebanon Mobile Forces
Lebanon Black Panthers
Lebanon Lebanese Armed Forces – Team (1)
Lebanon Lebanese Armed Forces – Team (2)
Malaysia Malaysia Armed Forces
Palestine National Security Forces – Palestine 77
Palestine National Security Forces – Palestine 101
Palestine Special Police Force
Qatar MOD
Russia Counter Terrorism – Team (1)
Russia Counter Terrorism – Team (2)
Saudi Arabia Royal Guards Presidency – Team (1)
Saudi Arabia Royal Guards Presidency – Team (2)
Saudi Arabia Royal Guards Presidency – Team (3)
Turkey JOAK
USA 2d Marine Special Operations Battalion
And aren’t the Marines supposed to be their best!
The video was a good watch – the cohesion in the Russian team and the way they worked together was great. The Putin shirts were good too ;).
Rgds,
Veritas
And a MARSOC no less. Supposed to be best of the best. Also funny ( one wonders if there is relation to who he is ) is that “Sergeant Major Edwin A. Mota 2d MSOB Sergeant Major” , their commander’s name (mota) is a mexican slang for marijuana. Just about every mexican smokes marijuana :)
Hi, what about the Belgian team ?
The west and USA have long realised the use of deception to attain their goals. Propaganda, deception, misinformation is 80% of the result of what they do. Only 20% comes from the facts. This how they have been fighting their wars. PR, marketing etc is part of their arsenal. Not facts. Russia must understand this.
They operate under their masters’ motto:
“By way of deception, thou shalt do war”
One of the things which always drives me crazy is that ironclad belief that Americans have that they are “the best”, and so are their country, their army and, of course, their special forces. None of that is true, of course, but it especially not true in the real of special operations were the actual record of the US special forces is, at best, very average and, at worst, terrible.
Well, one has to understand, during the American revolutionary war, the Americans utterly vanquished the RN. During their next war, the Americans again demolished the RN, and spared Canada of occupation out of pity. Fast forwarding over the “Indian wars”, where the cavalry always saved the day, Custer notwithstanding…, and “the Alamo”, where Americans killed Mexicans by “the many 1000s”, but were defeated because the pindos were “only a 100”, we arrive at WW1, where the Americans rescued Europe and defeated “the Kaiser” single handedly. Then there is WW2, where the Americans not only defeated Japan single handedly, they again rescued Europe, this time from Hitler. Single handedly, of course. Then the Americans saved South Korea from the Russo-Chinese menace. Vietnam was problematical for the American exceptionalist story, though. But defeat was snatched from America not by Vietnam, but by evil hippies, who subverted America with peace marches and free love. But the zionazis fixed that defeatist attitude during the 1980’s and once again America is on top, defeating evil nation after evil nation, even forcing their once colonial masters, the Brits to look at being victims of pindo “friendly fire” as a badge of [G]ATO honor (not honour) to wear proudly to the local McDonalds…
I’m ridiculing pindo propaganda, BTW.
Sadly,you pretty much nailed it.That is the US attitude on that history.Years of glossed over real history,and plenty of Hollywood movies and TV have done the job.
Unfortunately, even though you are trying to be ridicules, in my experience this isn’t far from what many Yanks actually think.
“WW1, where the Americans rescued Europe”
Really?
US intervened in WWI (after the ‘Zimmerman telegram’ false flag) only in 1917, when the exhausted allied against Germany seemed likely to be defeated. In this case, they never could pay their enormous debts to US, causing a serial economic crisis in the country. This is why they intervened.
As to WWII, it was the Soviet Union to break Hitler. The allied knew severe defeats in Ardennes and Hollande and stopped their progression for a while, when at the same time the Red Army was crashing the Wehrmacht and rolling towards Berlin. It was the Russian effort, with the sacrifice of 20 million losses, that mainly won the Nazis, not the Private Ryan, but certainly the show business knows how to build a long lasting myth…the underestimate power of propaganda…!
About the responsability of US (and the rest of Western World) in the creation of Nazism, I recommend to read “Wall Street and the rise of Hitler” by Anthony Sutton.
you are right, he was being sarcastic
Irony alert…
yap, know it (he clearly says so!) but here in Europe you have no idea how many believe those things hard as iron…
Irony, along with the subjunctive, case endings and whom, has disappeared from modern American English.
Like Steve Martin said in the movies, we gave up on irony here because people smoke dope while skiing topless so why bother, plus those of us who still speak Irony get tired of other people looking at us funny.
American government can kill, bomb innocents, generate chaos like no other tyranny in modern times.
Wave a flag in front of these actions and people in the US think it is patriotic to cheer.
As long as it is an American flag…. ;-)
American “exceptionalism” is still thriving on the home front, of course. No amount of evidence to the contrary seems able to kill the meme. The Russians have recently been trolling the Americans by publishing pictures of US spy satellites (all good fun, I’m sure). What interested me, though, in the report on this, was the following lead-in paragraph:
So few words. So much wrong. The spin factory is very busy indeed.
Since when is Russia communist?
LOL.
Amurikans are so brainwashed, they are still living in the Cold War.
As for bellilgerance, that is America’s national character.
How many countries has America attacked, invaded, or bombed since the fall of the Soviet Union compared to Russia.
Iraq, Serbia, Somalia, Afghanistan, Iraq again, Libya, Pakistan (bombing), Yemen–not to mention numerous American covert wars (Syria) or counter-insurgency wars (Columbia, sub-Saharan Africa).
The United States of Aggression is a predatory empire–but one which tries to psychologically project its war lust and aggression onto other nations, while it pimping itself as the Land of the Free.
*****
Was that a typo or a Freudian slip with that word “uncretainty” in Americans.org?
Cretin exceptionalism; no cultural sensitivity or geopolitical understanding and proud of it.
Wilful ignorance, USSA style..
Yes…
their exceptionality is so huge that they cannot face even a mere “uncertainty”…
and where for God’s sake? in space.
Really?
exactly on ‘space’ where they are beggars asking for credible boosters, for reliable engines and for full proof orbiting spacecraftery and for less expensive
equipment.
the poor bastard
Having spent about 4 1/2 years serving in the US Army Special Forces -plus about 2 more years in the regular infantry- during the Vietnam era, I suppose that I should state something about why our men were so “special”.
Of course, training and unit cohesion is very important. But it is the intangibles, which are developed through experience, and the character of the men who are attracted to such service, which are the most important. Above all, these men were resilient and intuitive.
During my time in the Special forces, I spent a few months each with New Zealand SAS and with Korean “Black Berets”. I found the men of these units to be very similar to me and my men. (The Australian SAS and the US Navy Seals whom I encountered, could never stop bragging long enough to learn much about them personally, and much less their tactics and skills.)
But none of these special forces proved to be any braver nor tougher than a handful of the many Cambodes, Montagnards, and Vietnamese I served with in 1971. The Cambodes had been rice farmers. The Montagnards had been hunters. The Vietnamese had been upper-class college boys. It was their experience and character that made them “special”: men that others could count on.
In 1972 I watched as a company from the White Horse Division of the South Korean Army take apart well-entrenched North Vietnamese with a precision that was amazing. In 1974, I witnessed a company of South Korean Marines chase down, pin down, then finish off some North Korean special forces. I could not imagine any unit – be it Special Forces, Army Rangers US Marines, Navy Seals- that could match the ferocity and speed with which these Koreans maneuvered and fought.
Regarding these tests that you referred to, I don’t know what kind of tasks or challenges that these special units were assigned, nor how they performed, or the standards by which they were evaluated. I do not know what special gadgets that modern Special Forces or Spetsnaz soldiers play with these days, or what advantages in stealth and stand-off weapons they may have. But combat experience -plus that special kind of character that some men acquire from their experience- is what makes them “special”.
Arthur Brina on April 29, 2015 · at 4:41 am UTC
But none of these special forces proved to be any braver nor tougher than a handful of the many Cambodes, Montagnards, and Vietnamese I served with in 1971.
What you describe as heroes then are your establishment’s heroes today. Duping people to become death squads, organised criminals and terrorists, while destroying their own people, is nothing to brag about. Any more than what your people are doing to the Ukraine right now, subverting the country and using its people as your cannon fodder. Nor is it any different to what the zionazis/nazis have done with regard to the “Muslim terrorist” armies and “Arab spring” destabilisations wreaking havoc in Asia and Africa that they organise and run.
There really wasn’t anything normative in Arthur’s comment. He didn’t call anybody a ‘hero.’ He was making an objective assessment of his observations. You are putting words in his ‘mouth.’ Can’t people read critically?
” Can’t people read critically?”
Data analysed from this blog over more than 1 year suggests that for a significant number reading attentively as well as critically poses problems.
@ Anonymous at 10:09am
And the only thing you have contributed is criticism of all the other readers/commenters and their abilities – I think your comment really reflects on you.
Really? I take it then you don’t visit other sites much.While not perfect of course, this blog’s comment page is one of the best (actually the best) one I’ve seen.That used to be true of the Guardian,before they went neo-con.They used to be known for intelligent commentary.But now,except for a segment of old timers they are as bad as the US MSM pages are.There is more good informative posting here than you see anywhere else.
Bot Tak you are talking about what the Government does. Arthur is talking about the individual soldiers, many of whom are professionals, work hard and risk their lives, and as such deserve respect. It is not their fault if they don’t have enough combat experience.
They too often get badly treated by their superiors, and are considered expendable, eg in the last Iraq war families had to buy the better quality body armour for them. And while they make fantastic prostheses for some of the amputee wounded, most veterans are very badly done by, with a high rate of homelessness among them and no {STD treatment.
Kat Kan on April 29, 2015 · at 7:21 am UTC
Bot Tak you are talking about what the Government does. Arthur is talking about the individual soldiers, many of whom are professionals, work hard and risk their lives, and as such deserve respect.
No, I’m denouncing both the regimes and the individual soldiers. Being effective war criminals does not make one a special war criminal, just a more dangerous one. Being talented at doing wrong is still doing wrong. The tactics used by the ZPC/NWO in SE Asia/E Asia were similar to those they used with death squads and “contras” in Latin America, the phony “Muslim” terrorists ransacking W Asia and Africa and the various nazi rebirths in E Europe, especially the Ukraine. The “soldiers” doing this, both the ZPC/NWO handlers/trainers and the foot soldiers may include units or individuals with extraordinary military skill, but what they are doing, and why they are doing it, makes all of them deserve a meet with a length of a rope.
Thanks for a very interesting comment!
If I may add few of my own to yours:
US Navy Seals whom I encountered, could never stop bragging long enough to learn much about them personally
I have never had any personal contacts with SEALs – but I heard the very same comment as you just made innumerable times :-)
But none of these special forces proved to be any braver nor tougher than a handful of the many Cambodes, Montagnards, and Vietnamese I served with in 1971.
My friend from the Spetsnaz Vympel made exactly the same comment about the Afghans of the Panshir Valley saying that Masoud’s best men were “at least as good as the Russian Spetsnaz” – he had no problem admitting that about his former enemies.
In 1972 I watched as a company from the White Horse Division of the South Korean Army take apart well-entrenched North Vietnamese with a precision that was amazing.
My Israeli-American “coup” teacher who worked with the White Hourse Division once told us that he considered them as amongst the best he had ever seen.
But combat experience -plus that special kind of character that some men acquire from their experience- is what makes them “special”.
Agreed 100%.
Thanks for your input!
Cheers,
The Saker
@ Arthur
Thank you for the insight.
I think we can see the “character” of the Novorossians is why they defeat the better equipped and larger Ukrainia forces everytime.
Rgds,
Veritas
“But none of these special forces proved to be any braver nor tougher than a handful of the many Cambodes, Montagnards, and Vietnamese I served with in 1971. The Cambodes had been rice farmers. The Montagnards had been hunters. The Vietnamese had been upper-class college boys. It was their experience and character that made them “special”: men that others could count on.”
It’s really not that complicated:
Fighting for one’s life and home and family gives one all the difference in the world. And that special indomitable quality to “go the extra mile”.
the US team did not do well because US did not bother to train such teams well. USA prefers to use “overwhelming force” everywhere and just bomb the hell out of everybody, including their own citizens even if they happened to be hostages!
This explains everything!
Russia SF training as seen through Amuurican eyes [so, hold on to your hats];
INSANE Russian Counter Terror Confidence Drill – Link to youtube
Real bullets, real action; that’s the essential difference between surviving and dying on the battlefield.
Your link is dead, Daniel. Is this the one you meant?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rI01qKAqYts
@ Kat Kan,
A bit late; yes it is. Thanks!
Yeah, but when it comes to busting up laughing at stupid sh*t he hears and reacting incredulously to moronic propaganda BS and interrupting ridiculous talking points from state dept. shills and sold-out academics, Peter Lavelle (American) is the best!!!!!
“One of the things which always drives me crazy is that ironclad belief that Americans have that they are “the best”, and so are their country, their army and, of course, their special forces. ”
Why complain of the opponents weaknesses?
Use these weakness against them.
Well the americans did actually have some successes, in my homeland for example, where they rescued some shot-down pilots from Serbia and Bosnia during those bombing campaigns:
http://kosova.org/post/Stealth-Nighthawk-downed-in-Yugoslavia
I’m sure it was not a walk in the park.
Let the Americans carry on under their various delusions, there’s nothing wrong with it. So long as they are not so arrogant and deluded to try something really really stupid, then I don’t see the harm of them blundering into situations in boots of hubris, like an IDF march into Lebanon.
Television interview yesterday with former German chancellor Helmut Schmmidt (96).
https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2015/04/29/helmut-schmidt-interview/
Still more or less defends Russia.
“One of the things which always drives me crazy is that ironclad belief that Americans have that they are “the best…”
But… but… but… didn’t you know that they’re unique and exceptional? How could they possibly not be the best at everything?
Yesterday I was browsing through some tennis news, and I saw a report in an American newspaper about a young man called Benjamin Lock. Although he plays for Zimbabwe, Lock was described as “Florida State’s No. 1 singles player”. Showing how thoroughly he has absorbed the American attitude to life, he was quoted as saying, “When I’m on my best game, I can compete with the best guys in the world”. Lock’s current rating No. 1212 in the world, and he has never defeated a player ranked higher than 803. Yet, from his statement, one might assume that he gives himself a good chance against Novak Djokovic, Roger Federer or Rafael Nadal.
Just a trivial sporting observation – but I think the mental attitude is similar. Just so, I can imagine American “special forces” finishing some gruelling exercise and saying, “We could wipe the floor with those Spetsnaz guys”. Of course, talking is one thing. Actually doing it: harder.
After the British police murdered Jean Charles de Menezes (a crime for which no one was ever prosecuted “on grounds of the public interest”) there was quite a lot of media concern that such a thing could happen in the heart of London in the daily rush hour. I read an article about how SAS men brought in to help train the police SWAT squads were horrified by the quality of their human material. The SAS people were reluctant to use force, knowing that once unleashed it can escalate frighteningly. But they said far too many of the police guys were simply Clint Eastwood wannabes, who joined the force so they could shoot guns. Very scary.
Yes…. “on grounds of the public interest” …that tired old excuse.
The documentary about the ‘incident’ was a whitewash of total incompetence on the part of everyone involved.
The senior officer in charge gets to retire to a well paid NGO job,the murderers get a free pass.
The family get paid off with an undisclosed sum of currency.
No justice for Jean Charles and no justice for the people.
And guess what? the tube station tapes ‘disappear’,the eye witnesses to the murder are never allowed to speak.
Just like the guantanamo british detainees,threatened by the official secrets act,threats against their families,surprise surprise no newspaper prints their exclusive……
“I was tortured by Americans”
The country is totally F*cked and as hated as the US and France.
The first episode of ‘The President’
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c7f_1430284031
excellent!!
enjoy.
enjoyed.
American propaganda deals with true paradox – it has to present US troops as the best equipped and the bravest at the same time. One obviously excludes the other, why should superiour soldiers need superior equippment? US (and Western generally) people miss an idea why to fight, American ideals of greed and egoism obviously are not good motivators for soldiers.
I am inclined to think their finest hour of all was the supposed assassination of Osama bin Laden. (I say “supposed” because I doubt if Osama was still alive – he was suffering from terminal kidney disease ten years earlier, in places that do not do intensive care). They fly in two big helicopters packed to the gunwales with special forces and equipment, break down a door, run upstairs and… shoot a naked and unarmed old man who is at death’s door anyway. Wow, what courage!
And then – because in America nobody gets irony – they make a movie about how glorious it was! And show the President eagerly gloating over the murder of the naked unarmed old man from the comfort of the White House! Man, that is the apex of civilization. There is nowhere left to go.
Sono uno scrittore di romanzi d’ambientazione storica. Per lavoro mi documento e vi garantisco che i numeri parlano più delle parole.
WW1 fronte italiano: soldati italiani morti 650.000, soldati USA morti n.1
WW2 su tutti i fronti: soldati italiani morti 320.000, soldati USA morti 250.000
I numeri non mentono mai, gli USA sempre.
[MOD: I’m a writer of novels historical setting. For me working document and I guarantee that the numbers speak louder than words.
WW1 Italian front: 650,000 dead Italian soldiers, US soldiers killed 1
WW2 on all fronts: 320,000 Italian soldiers dead, 250,000 US soldiers dead
The numbers never lie, the US forever.]
“Per lavoro mi documento”
I think it would be more like “I do research for my work”.
The American special forces are mostly weak willed, co dependent bragarts who are destined to suicide, drug addiction, being mercenaries, training cops to kill Americans or red cell reenactment clubs in the privat sector. Some of them are actually talented, but thats an exception. Team sports exercises, gameshow obstacle courses, acronym memorisation, steroid use, immunity, are some of the reasons which make them probably the worst in the world. If any “untermensch” — anyone who isn’t them — were to criticize them, such as those on this forum, they often go into a hot winded rage and might even threaten the critic. Such is how weak they are.
The reason they are the worst is because they cost so much. Average price is at least two million, but probably higher now. Other special force production costs far less. There is a saying in the military that “The best of the best always leave.” Any actual talented and moral people within the US military reach a point where they do almost anything to get out. Like every other US military member, they are chronically sleep deprived, are constantly harrassed by political beureaucrat officers, subject to hours of classroom time learning about non pertinent material. Any talent will be muted by military life.
Their attempted hostage rescue missions against islamic state have been total failures. They are routinely annihilated in exteremely dangerous helicopter assaults. Blown up by 2$ IEDs in Afghanistan/Iraq on worthless show of force presence patrols. Killed by resistance forces wearing American supplied uniforms. And now they, like the rest of the US military, are killing themselves en masse. With the introduction of extermely powerful anti-psychotic, anti-depressant drugs, and other concoctions, these suicides are artificially low. Without them, they would be making mass graves for themselves.
Every US special forces organization is corrupt. All of them. This is not the same special forces of the Vietnam era, or even the 80’s. Basically a bunch of them are not even close to the right material, but have family connections to Pentagon. Colonels at the pentagon want their nephews, sons to be what they wanted to be since they were kids, and made arrangments. Eventually, the spoiled brats make their way into officer positions, and the results are apparent for all to see. The series “Generation Kill” goes into some detail, but the reality is far worse. “Inside the green berets” is another one.
Overall, though, they are good just the way they are. Better to have a costly and weak oppressor army than a cheap and effective one. If the American military was anything like the Russians, or even the Canadians, NAF would be in a much more difficult situation.
mom, dad
The future is too good to waste on
lies. And life is way too short to care
for the damnation of others, as well as
to spend it helping fools with their
ideas that are wrong. I have seen
their ideas and I am ashamed to even
be american. The horror of the self-
righteous arrogance that they thrive
in. It is all revolting. […] [Three good
sergeants had been forced to move to
another company] […] and one of the
biggest shit bags is being put in
charge of the team. […] [My battalion
commander was] a conceited old fool.
[…] In the US army you are cut down
for being honest… but if you are a
conceited brown nosing shit bag you
will be allowed to do what ever you
want, and you will be handed your
higher rank… The system is wrong. I
am ashamed to be an american. And
the title of US soldier is just the lie of
fools. … The US army is the biggest
joke the world has to laugh at. It is the
army of liars, backstabbers, fools, and
bullies. The few good SGTs are getting
out as soon as they can, […] I am
sorry for everything here. These
people need help, yet what they get is
the most conceited country in the
world telling them that they are
nothing and that they are stupid, that
they have no idea how to live… We
don’t even care when we hear each
other talk about running their
children down in the dirt streets with
our armored trucks… We make fun of
them in front of their faces, and laugh
at them for not understanding we are
insulting them […] I am sorry for
everything. The horror that is america
is disgusting. There are a few more
boxes coming to you guys. Feel free to
open them, and use them. [1] :4
“
Bowe Bergdahl
Too honest, too intelligent for current US-rael ‘policy’..
Eimar, thanks for posting that.
Apropos: Two Navy SEALs die during a training exercise……they drowned in a swimming pool. Not so encouraging when our NAVY specops can’t survive a training exercise in a swimming pool….
http://nypost.com/2015/04/27/navy-seals-die-in-swimming-pool-training-accident/
Learning from the US means learning to lose.
Every single US puppet regime has been trained to look as helpless as possibly, and cry for the “Big Brother” for help at any signs of danger.
This is not necessarily something bad: the first 2 of these projects after 1945, the German Bundeswehr, and the Japanese Self Defense Forces were designed to break up the militaristic culture in those nations, and what German and Japanese militarism have brought to our planet was not entirely beneficial, to put it euphemistically.
The training of the South-Korean and South-Vietnamese armies during the cold war went along the same schemes, as was the case with the Kuwaitian and Audi-Arabian military forces in 1990.
The “Post-Saddam” Iraqi Army, and the Georgian Army in 2008 continued that tradition into the 21st century.
The Ukrainian Regime is eager to follow in those footsteps, and to continue the legacy.
This was especially true in WWII. Military analysts have concluded that the Werhmach solder was perhaps 20-30% superior to the US soldier. The exception would be some of the “commandos” such as the “Devil’s Brigade” who took part in the operation to capture Monte La Difensa in Italy.
From a Google search I found this:
Quote
According to calculations by the US Army the results of the battles in WW2 were only possible, when the soldiers of the Wehrmacht – man for man and unit for unit – were 20 to 30 percent more effective than was the British and American forces they faced.
Extrapolating the individual soldiers against each other – and although the Wehrmacht was far lower in numbers – so the German troops that faced British and American troops under all combat conditions (for assaults with the usual factor of 1.0 – in the defense in carefully selected positions with view by a factor of 1.3 – in prepared defense positions 1.5 – in fortified defense positions by a factor of 1.6) cause approximately 50 percent higher losses than they suffer.
This was accessible whether the Germans were in attack or defense, if they were locally in place with higher numbers or – what was the rule – in lower numbers, if they had air cover or not, whether they had won the battle or lost at the end.
Even in the bitter years of defeats on the Russian front, the German combat effectiveness superiority over the Russians was even more pronounced. In the early days of the campaign in the east, one German division could take up with three Russian divisions of comparable strength and power. And, theoretically, under favorable defense conditions one German division could stand against no less than seven comparable Russian divisions.
In 1944 this superiority was still about 2:1, and one German soldier at the front caused an average loss of 7.78 Russians for one German casualty. These figures need to adapted to the fact that the Wehrmacht in 1944 was almost always in the defense, had a relatively higher mobility and at this time the German weapons were better than the weapons of the Russians. But even if you take into account these considerations, the ratio for the infliction of losses was more than 4:1 and the German fighting power in battle was – man by man – about more than 50% better.
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I am reminded of the scene in the movie “Battle of the Bulge” where the German commander is ordered by his superior to go around one of the towns he was besieging. He shows his superior a chocolate cake that had been taken from a captured US soldier. He informs his superior that the Americans had enough fuel to fly cake across the Atlantic whereas the German army was scrounging for gas.
The point was that the US “buys” its wars with its massive economy rather than wins them by superior capability. That and the fact that nowadays very few militaries in the world can directly compete with US technology, the size of the US military machine, and the level of US training (however poor this actually is, it’s light years beyond most Third World militaries.) In other words, the US picks on weak opponents which makes it look superior.
We have yet to see how the US mililtary would fare against either a larger opponent like China or a technically equivalent opponent like Russia.
Of course, when it comes to “counter-insurgency” – which is factually impossible for an occupying army to succeed at – the US is pathetically bad. This is why any US war against Iran will be a disaster far greater than the mess in Iraq and Afghanistan.
True! I remember reading the writings of a German field commander when talking about the Americans. He considered them weak. In particular he was referring to the tendency of American infrantry to go into a crouching or prone position when under fire, and remian in the same place. “We rely on them to make these kind of mistakes,” was what he said.
The Vietnamese didn’t respect them either. I remember seeing an interview with an NVA soldier. He considered them to be bad at fighting; overloaded with gear and unable to move around effectively. The NVA strategy involved close range heavy attacks against Americans, with the intention of getting the Americans to call in an air strike or artillery strike as close to the Americans as possible. Ia Drang being a famous example, the NVA successfully baited multiple American airstrikes and reinforcements to destroy themselves.
It seems like none of those who fought the US military were particularly afraid of them. The Iraqis, Afghanis, Somalis and others considered them weak and cowardly, but dangerous solely from weapons and war material.
Yes, they also die frequently in training. Many of them die as a result of their gear as well. During Normandy landings, there were massive amounts of drowning deaths as a result of being overburdened with gear. Even several years ago, the US had to completely redesign their body armor system because it had a tendency to drown US soldiers when they fell into canals in Afghanistan. Ironic. the gear that they think would save them ends up killing them.
What ends up destroying the Americans is their costly worse than worthless performance. Their enemies are pennies on the dollar and just one of their special forces that killed in a training accident is millions. Consider the incident where two chinook helicipters full of Navy seals was shot down by small arms or RPGs. A couple of locals with old captured soviet arms caused damage easily in the hundreds of milions. From an attack that was probably in the hundreds of dollars. I also remember reading that it took a $250,000 to kill a Vietnamese, but took the vietnamese something like less than a dollar to kill an US soldier. This is the same predicament the Americans are in today, but far worse.
One might say that the only time the American military performs well is in Hollywood movies and maybe videos games. Otherwise, they resemble more of a bankrupt, subsidized business.
General Patton had a famous quote about the quality of the army being shown by the amount of artillery support needed by the infantry. The American troops, he admitted, needed a lot of artillery.
Do you really think that the Pentagon and its investors really care about the average GI Joe? It’s all profit, baby.
Richard Steven Hack on April 29, 2015 · at 9:23 pm UTC
In 1944 this superiority was still about 2:1, and one German soldier at the front caused an average loss of 7.78 Russians for one German casualty. These figures need to adapted to the fact that the Wehrmacht in 1944 was almost always in the defense, had a relatively higher mobility and at this time the German weapons were better than the weapons of the Russians. But even if you take into account these considerations, the ratio for the infliction of losses was more than 4:1 and the German fighting power in battle was – man by man – about more than 50% better.
I notice you do not provide a link for that regurgitated wartime nazi propaganda. Is there a reason for that?
Ah, search brought up the source:
Fighting Power of the Wehrmacht
The article also made this claim (right after the Hack quote):
Moreover, from the available figures you could see, that the performance of the Polish army in 1939 was statistically better than the Russians in the later course of the war.
A Polish nazi colaborator site? That’s like Polish version of Lyashko. :D
wow, such a interesting article…must send it on…
we have to separate reality with propaganda , regarding US special ops. Im sure US spec ops operators knew this in their heart. Their biggest fear is to be used outside their capabilities , just because the brass got taken by their own propaganda “special force can do no wrong”..
One clear example : The oft hyped almost mythical supermen of Delta Force , Assaulting Mullah Omar compound in kandahar 2001, got suprised by the defender’s tenacity and reaction , not to mention their heavy weapons.. The lightly armed delta force operators were pinned down and forced to retreat or face defeat. The talibans found a severed boot with human foot in it… casualties for that debacle wasnt published..
my point is this, special force operators, are nothing more than highly trained infantry soldier , who WILL face defeat when their enemy have superior firepower and numbers. Take away the US air power advantage and you will see debacles like mogadishu , patilla airfield, DGSE assault , that Lone survivor debacle in afghanistan , and many more..
and please do not rate south korean units in vietnam war as representative of their nation’s fighting abilities, small operations they did are nothing , compared to how north koreans steamrolled southkorean divisions during korean war..
addenum :
The infatuation of western people by so called ‘special forces’ or ‘elite units’ also drove them to worship the great german military units in world war 2.. any military historian will see massive amount of text regarding german superior military units, their SS units, the wermacht, the armour units… while you will be hard pressed to see good data on russian units that fought off these german supermen and superweapons..
Elite units ? no such thing…
US rangers , highly trained , highly motivated , light infantry , got slaughtered by german’s conventional soldiers when they tried to assault Cisterna in WW2… No matter how elite and how well trained these Elites, they are no match against heavy weapons..
General Swarzkoff had it right the first time, when he said he didnt have much use for Special forces in Desert Storm , because they all Primadonna,s Hogging all the Glory while taking off resources from combat unitss… Gen Swarzkoff said , his experiences in vietnam formed his opinion of these so called ELITE units, they punchs WAY above their weight and have to be saved by conventional units when they got over their head..
Elite units = only in movies..
In reality ? Extortion 17 anyone ? whole Chinook full of 30+ american spec ops operators, got shot down by 2 taliban night watchmen with just 2 RPG..
If you want to see an accidental Hollywood advertisement for the mediocrity of America’s special forces, check out the flick BLACK HAWK DOWN, where America’s elite Delta Force operators and US Rangers were shot down, dragged through the streets of Mogadishu, and captured by rag-tag Somali militiamen.
The only way America was able to extricate itself from this humiliation was being rescued by the United Nations peacekeeping force, led by Malaysia!
Hollywood is the Jewnited States’ biggest military secret and the baddest weapon.
I find this conversation among professional warriors interesting. I respect elite forces regardless whom they serve for their dedication, discipline and courage.
I served in the US Army July ’65 to July ’68. A single term of enlistment at the time. Lucky for me, I served behind the wire. I was Beetle Bailey. They tell me that we lost 58,000 of our own in that great war about nothing. This while murdering something in the range of three millions of “communists”. Most of those 58,000 were not warriors. They were Beetle Bailey’s like me. Some of the three millions may have been communists but if they were they were also working class people.
I am a Wobblie. A member of Industrial Workers of the World. I am not loyal to any nation. I am only loyal to my class. War is an unmitigated disaster for the working class. Therefore I oppose it.
This is my question. Are elite high tech warriors loyal to the politicians they serve? Or are they only devoted to their craft and their companions? They must know that war is a racket. Right?
Is it worth hiring a pro to do the link outreach, or do you do it ourselves?
Added a post on Facebook, hope thats okay!