The Russian Defense Ministry announced it is halting cooperation with its US counterparts in the framework of the Memorandum on the Prevention of Incidents and Ensuring Air Safety in Syria following the coalition’s downing of a Syrian warplane.
The ministry has demanded a thorough investigation by the US military command into the incident with the Syrian government military jet, with the results to be shared with the Russian side.
“In the areas of combat missions of Russian air fleet in Syrian skies, any airborne objects, including aircraft and unmanned vehicles of the [US-led] international coalition, located to the west of the Euphrates River, will be tracked by Russian ground and air defense forces as air targets,” the Russian Ministry of Defense stated.
Downing the military jet within Syrian airspace “cynically” violates the sovereignty of the Syrian Arab Republic, Russian military said.
The actions of the US Air Force are in fact “military aggression” against Syria, the statement adds.
The ministry emphasized that Russian warplanes were on a mission in Syrian airspace during the US-led coalition’s attack on the Syrian Su-22, while the coalition failed to use the communication line to prevent an incident.
“The command of the coalition forces did not use the existing communication channel between the air commands of Al Udeid Airbase (in Qatar) and the Khmeimim Airbase to prevent incidents in Syrian airspace.”
The ministry considers the move “a conscious failure to comply with the obligations under the Memorandum on the Prevention of Incidents and Ensuring Air Safety in Syria,” and is thus halting cooperation with the US within the memorandum framework as of June 19, the statement concluded.
Earlier Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergey Ryabkov condemned the attack, branding it an act of aggression which actually helped the terrorists the US is fighting against.
The US-led coalition downed the Syrian government warplane on Sunday. At the moment of the attack the jet was carrying out operations against Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) some 40km from Raqqa, the Russian Defense Ministry said. The pilot ejected from the plane above IS-controlled territory and is still missing.
OK, map anyone? Looks as if we are talking about the territory of Syrian Kurdistan-to-be
https://www.bing.com/search?q=topographical+map+of+Syria&pc=MOZI&form=MOZSPG
Exactly. US made a last-ditch attempt to seize a great swath of land west of Euphrates at the crossing al-Tanf. It’s some “advisors” and some “moderate rebels” sweating it out in the middle of the desert.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Desert_offensive_(May_2017%E2%80%93present)
Add that to the analysis provided by Elijah Magnier to Radio War Nerd last week. War rooms full of US strategists and contractors, sitting in their comfy chairs in Arlington, thought they had captured a strategic lynchpoint and a source of trade from Iraq. Those idiots didn’t realize that al-Tanf is just an ordinary road going through worthless desert. There is nothing strategic about it and SAA simply started making a new road, which their counterparts in Iraq are now reaching to meet on the other side (see map on Wiki article above).
SAA’s outpost east of the US enclave cuts off the US and their ” moderate rebels” from moving towards the Euphrates, unless if they want a hot war with Russia. SAA now has the upper hand to benefit from ISIS collapse. More of that radio show at this link:
https://www.patreon.com/posts/preview-radio-88-11730847
US is building a permanent base in Kurdish territory. They don’t want a Kurd-Assad confederation after the war.
https://southfront.org/us-setting-up-military-facility-in-tabqah-town-in-syrian-province-of-raqqah/
Their final objective was to grab the entire East of Syria with this brilliant al-Tanf business. Now Russia just told them no way in hell.
In their dreams. Never in history has there been a Kurdistan, nor will there be one – to be.
You must be a Turk
Not even close.
@Leo,
Sir, you don’t need to be a Turk, an Iraqi or a Syrian to affirm that there has never been a country called Kurdistan, as it is simply another fabrication. Kurds are nomads from northern Iran and probably beyond, for centuries they were moving from one place to another looking for pasture (they speak some Iranian dialects). Unfortunately it will take too long to explain. But this poem from an ancient person, himself a Kurd addressing the Kurds can conclude my post.
You’ve bitten off more than you can chew
and you have brought death to yourself.
O son of a Kurd, raised in the tents of the Kurds,
who gave you permission to put a crown on your head?
P.S, Now, as an Arab from Morocco, I strongly believe that the Amazigh (pejoratively called Berbers), to claim their land from us, but the Kurds ? No, they are nomads thus have no land of their own, never did, never will. “Kurdistan” would be another artificial state created by the same parasites who created Israel and KSA.
Please do some research.
oops…West duh. of the Euphrates so they are giving them Kurdistan-to-be. or the land North and East of the Euphrates.
well Deir ez Zor is still up for grabs.
crucial question, if you cage be beast you have fo feed the beast, it’s vanity
in human heart and US Kurdistan is contested till food is shared
my German draft concerning the week
https://mundanestagebuch.blogspot.de/2017/06/19.html
Do you actually believe the Shia militias of Iraq, IRGC troops and advisors, as we see now backed up by ‘Zolfiqar’ Ground-To-Ground missiles, to name a few of these options they have; and im sure Hezbollah would want a chunk of this scrap, then you throw in the most ‘distilled’ down and experienced fighting army in the world, the SAA, topped off with Russian war and diplomatic power; are going to let there be a ‘Kurdistan’, which in essence is a U.S./Israeli foothold right in the center of the Shia cresent?
Not going to happen. The Shia will overrun the place if need be. And Syrian, Iraqi Arab Sunni’s don’t have much love for the back-stabbing and un-appreciating Kurds.
If Iraq, Iraq and Syria let this ‘Kurdistan’ thing to take hold, it would be like a cancerous tumor.
Again. Not going to happen. If the Kurds want to assimilate into the countries they reside in fine, if not, they can pack up and continue wandering around like they have for millennium. Jews of the Islamic world.
Cheers.
I thought the Islamic jews were the Saudis, perhaps you mean gypsies.
Nowhere in the statement says it will “shoot down”. It says “will be tracked…” shooting and tracking are two different things. tracking will lead to shooting but the Russians may not have the balls to shoot to avoid direct engagement with the americans for a shooting war.
You are right, it will be tracked and thereafter have an incident with all electronics failure and crash.
“The decisions will be made in each case individually, the targets will not be attacked automatically. But in case of aggressive acts from the United States, these actions will be strictly stopped by the Russian Aerospace Forces,” Klintsevich said.”
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201706191054763888-russia-syria-downing-aircraft/
these are just empty threats from the Russians. if it concerns them they “might” act. but if the americans are just hitting the syrians, the russian is very clear. they are not obligated to shoot back and it is not their business to shoot first the american unless one of their “own” planes has been downed by the americans. it merely shows what i was thinking a lot lately… the russians are actually weak.
Depends on what you mean by weak, the Russians certainly are military weaker than US in Syria, a war between Russia and USA in Syria the Russians would not stand a chance. USA has military bases in Jordan, Iraq and Turkey. Syria is encircled by USA puppets.
So is Russia weak? If you mean military, if you mean morally, no. Russia is just bound by reality, Russia cannot take on USA in Syria nor would they risk Russian lives to protect Syrian lives. Nor would they have anything to gain from shooting down an USA plane in Syria. That would rally all neocons and liberals in the west, it would give USA the excuse to launch a full-out assault on Syria. There is nothing to gain for Russia to gain from shooting down an American plane, but everything for USA to gain. Right now, USA is losing.
Russians have secret technology where ‘accidents’ could/will happen. This however is no secret.
“a war between Russia and USA in Syria the Russians would not stand a chance”
I am not that sure actually. Iraq was “nothing” compared to Russia and the US has not won there. The number of weaponry at your disposal is not, in my view, a gauge of who is stronger or who is weaker. The US have proven to be unable to win a war, be it against Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Somalia, Yemen etc. They did however win against Grenada and in a way against Panama, does that count? I believe strongly that Russia is far superior as an army than the US and it would win if ever the US dared attack her. Even in Syria I believe that the US would if not defeated at least retreat if confronted with the Russians and their allies.
Russia doesn’t ‘backtrack’ – they say what they mean and do it !!
Noticed any ‘Israeli’ jets around lately ???
Oh, that ages old kindergarten trick!
> the russians are actually weak.
– You are weakling!
– No i am not!
– Prove it: go do for me this this and that, while i would gain benefits and risk nothing.
“Russia will not automatically destroy any aerial objects in the areas of its Aerospace Forces’ actions in Syria, the decisions will be made on individual basis, First Deputy Chairman of the Russian Federation Council’s Committee on Defense and Security Frants Klintsevich told Sputnik on Monday.”
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201706191054763888-russia-syria-downing-aircraft/
Thanks for the insights…. on the other hand, I wonder if the “Americans” have the common sense to not continue this? A vigorous debate could ensue as to whether balls and brains can exist in any single individual, and if so, who might that uniquely endowed person be? Fools rush in where angels fear to tread, yes. Seriously, does the shooting down of a single Syrian aircraft “have” to result in the Russians (or the Yanks) having a “go” at each other? Two more questions: how many good people in the States really want a shooting war with the Russians? — and, in particular regarding the USA, where are the true diplomats among all the warriors? From Richard Rhodes, in his book Arsenals of Folly: Far from victory in the Cold War, the superpower nuclear arms race and the corresponding militarization of the American economy gave us ramshackle cities, broken bridges, failing schools, entrenched poverty, impeded life expectancy, and a menacing and secretive national security state that held the entire world hostage.” This is not just something for all of us to think about, because we are experiencing it first-hand. It is an absolute catastrophe.
Here’s my analysis on everything that’s going on:
“Far from being the “democratic-leftist freedom fighters” that most Western audiences have been misled into believing that they are, the Syrian Kurds are a unipolar geopolitical proxy designed to carry out the post-war partition of the Arab Republic.
…
The SAA seems determined to carry through with President Assad’s promise to liberate “every inch of Syria”, which is why they allegedly attacked the SDF-YPG Kurds near Tabqa in spite of this clearly contradicting Russia’s grand strategic interests, so with such a “wildcard” in play, it’s anyone’s guess whether the coming months will see a “New Détente” or a new Arab-Kurdish conflict.”
http://theduran.com/syrian-kurdish-clashes-new-conflict-new/
According to humble opinion of my military guru, the Syrian Kurds do not have many resources to fund their entity-to-be but there are oil reserves near Deir ez Zor. SAA and SDF are fighting in Rasafa as we write this which is in the Russian ” fly if you dare” zone and on the road to Deir ez Zor.
Also, he says there are no Patriot batteries at the US base in al Tanaf so those Iranian missiles just fired Deir ez Zor wise must be giving some concern.
Must be a lot of talking and meetings going on which we will never be privy to.
SAA has taken Resfa which controls the main roads west and south of Raqqa/Taqba. SAA forces have locked westward advance of the ISIS/Kurd US-stooges.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCq13btWsAAJjuE.jpg:large
My guess is that the SAA will lock off the oil/gas fields to the east of the major road to Taqba/Raqqa, working round towards the Euphrates and closing that road too. That rooad is one of the links between Raqqa and Deir ez Zor, so that would help relieve pressure on Deir ez Zor.
As for the Turds, they are only 9% of Syria’s population and they are looking to control some 30% of Syria. The numbers do not stack up.
And there comes Turkey in the play, they are at odds with the Kurds for a long time, they even “told” to the US to “chose between Turkey and Kurds”. Now, little by little, Assad is going to understand the situation vis-a-vis of the Kurdistan dream.
Andrew K.
Another of your most astute articles. Thanks for the link.
Russia is in this and has been from the getgo for gas. They have had a plan for Gazprom that is far beyond pipelines to Europe. They want to be atop all Eurasian flows, Mediterranean development, and ME transport. They have been talking gas with Qatar, Israel, Palestinians, Egypt and of course, Iran.
The latest moves with gas swaps involve Iran, India, China and Russian deals.
Bulgaria is back in the picture for Turkey 2, and the big one the US is trying to stop with the new sanctions, North Stream 2 to Germany.
This has been concurrent with the war. The efforts the US is making is to shoot its way into the middle of all these “deals” and stop the Russian hegemony over gas energy. Since the day Putin stopped South Stream 2 and announced Turkish Stream, Russia has had to bring its military to “the gas business meetings”.
The SCO could be renamed, The SC & Gas Org. SCGO may be its new initials.
As for your thinking on the division of Syria, that Russia may agree to, so as not to prolong the war, hope the US would leave and some arrangements with the Kurds can allow gas to become the future when war is done—I think Turkey and Iran cannot accept this ending. And Syria certainly won’t. Those three would be big losers if the Kurds and US get their way. Russia may not want to act, but what good is the sovereign half-state of Syria? Especially, with Israel wanting all the Golan and the US-coalition fueling insurgents for the next decade to take down the Syrian government.
No. It’s a hope Russia has. But the reality is too stark. The US cannot deal with a massive war in Syria, centered around Kurds. If Turkey, Iran and Syria all coordinate, the Kurds will have to submit to a lesser outcome. The US would be in control of Syria, de facto, if your scenario came about. Russia would not control gas through Syria. US would.
The solution is the US has to lose. And there are many scenarios for that outcome without it being direct military defeat.
Russia would have fought in vain and wind up marginalized if Syria is not unitary.
There are many permutations of what the new Syrian Republic would look like, but its borders have to be pre-war. If the east is lost to the US, the war is lost to the US.
The Kurds will be held to some sector, but not with heavy military equipment. Turkey will hit those bases at some time. Erdogan is not capable of that accommodation. There is nothing in it for Turkey but eventual big trouble.
And Iran is not going to let US bases stay unmolested in Syria.
I think the Russians will buy lots of time to re-sort things, using diplomacy and other means. But, if the US intends to stay, then a strategy to bleed them, confront them, burn their presence so the voters at home turn off the war will be devised. Using Shiite militias, Syrian troops, Hezbollah and PMUs, the Kurd-US alliance will have an uncomfortable future.
Trump is in for a win, not a quagmire.
A Turkish jet bomber attack, an Iranian missile strike, a special forces mission from Syria or Hezbollah can make Kurdistan look like Afghanistan or Baghdad in a flash.
The American public wants its military to come home.
The Beast always looks like King Kong when it stands up and bellows. But, two hind feet makes for an easy take down. The Hegemon can be severely crippled.
Timing and place are waiting in Syria.
And what is the political impact when the neocons try to tell the public that their sons are now dying to carve out a new country for Kurds? All the US has to do is defeat Syria, Turkey and Iran, and maybe beat up Russia, too. 2018 is an election year. War is not good for re-election.
Western economies are addicted to Oil – They are Not prepared to go in a New direction !
That would mean taking an economic ‘hit’ – China has committed 50 trillion toward Free energy by 2050 – China Knows (as does Russia) that the oil ‘economy’ is Not sustainable !!
(edited for Caps,that violate the blog rules.MOD)
> what good is the sovereign half-state of Syria?
Sea shore in Mediterranean Sea
Ask Chuna to dig a deep harbor there, build there LNG plant, pull the pipes to Qatar, Israel, even Iran – and start loading gas tankers and fueling LNG-powered cargo ships, that go around Southern Europe
Back in the days Turkish Stream was gloriously announced, it was speculated LNG plant can be built at Golden Horn southern exit. Well, Syran western shore suits too.
LNG is the product the US is determined to dominate around the world.
Gas through pipelines is the Russian dominance.
A Half-Syria would be another Lebanon. And very unstable, similarly.
Syria needs its east and south and north. The Syrians know it. Where is their oil?
Where do they touch their Shiite brothers?
And Russia would be caught in cauldron, always next to and among an insurgent zone that would never cease to be under Sunni-Saudi and Israeli “hybrid war”.
It’s untenable. A death sentence for Syria.
Thanks. At least for me, your analysis is respected and worthy of consideration.
:)
A couple of comments about your as-usual fine article.
From the statements released, I got the sense the order of events was a bit different. That SAA ground troops had initially engaged the SDF troops. The US release speaks of an unspecified “show of force”, presumably aerial, and it sounds from their release that this blunted the SAA attack. The Syrian Air Force bombing mission came an hour or two later.
I noted that sequence because it gave me the impression that the shooting down of the jet was a second escalation and ‘show-of-force’ towards the Syrians. Or perhaps an angry military type saying “they won’t back off? Well, we’ll show them!”
The second comment is an impression from the comments that follow. This might be a very interesting move by the Assad government. They certainly know that the Kurds are a fracture line in the coalition that’s been attacking their country. Thus, deliberately attacking the Kurds to see what happens might be an interesting move. The Kurds have been complaining that their drive on Raqqa was slowed down by a lack of air-support from the Americans after Erdogon’s visit to DC. Erdogon didn’t seem to get much out of that, other than a chance to have his thugs beat up some protesters. But perhaps he did get a lessening of US direct support for the Kurds. The Syrian attack forced the US to raise its level of support for the Kurds, and conceivably Erdogon won’t like seeing that. Anyways, making moves that tend to drive the Turks away from the Yanks is an interesting idea.
The Kurds will be overwhelmed by all sides. The right in the heart of the Shia cresent. Iran, Iraq and Syria will not allow it. It an impossible proposition and wishful thinking. For the Kurds, their next moves will be crucial, if not fatal.
The Arabs and Persians will not allow it, as it will correctly be seen as an Israeli/U.S. strategic foothold right in the middle of them. A cancerous tumor.
Shia militias from Lebanon and Iraq, IRGC and their assets, the SAA, backed up by Russia will squash it.
Another tiresome Korybko partition piece without any credible evidence to back it up whatsoever. It’s like listening to the Yinon-plan on repeat over and over.
Either Korybko is deadly pessimistic to the core, too American or he actually prefer new M.E “death pangs” and tries to adapt his pieces and his audience accordingly. In the real world however, reality points to the contrary. The region US wants Kurds to be the new authority is Arabic and these tribes wont accept any such deal, in fact, everybody involved including US’s “allies” hates Americans and will make their eventual stay a living h-ll. The barrack bombings -82 would be like a vacaation with Club Med in comparison.
Apart from attacking SAA on US’s order, siding with Saudi Barbaria will probably be the most stupid mistake these table-cloth and curtain-clad Kurds have made. They will, as usual, end up being hated by everybody, infighting and with no sustainable level of “independence” whatsoever.
Exactly my thinking. Great analysis.
I agree, any ‘ Kurdistan’ project will be squashed. They would be most silly if they seriously pursue such dreams. Arabs and Persians of all religions would see to its quick demise. As Syrians, Iraqi’s and Iranians are very nationalistic. The Arab tribes of Syria and Iraq would see it as a great dishonor. And Arabs really don’t like ungrateful backstabbers.
In Arab culture and tradition, great hospitality to your guests, especially in their hour of need, is an upmost priority and an honor and mandatory. Only then to be back-stabbed by your guests who are trying to double-cross you with the Zionist U.S. and Israel!?!
The Arabs and Shia from all surrounding nationalities will rally and neutralize such a project.
The Kurds are better off opening such a dilemma upon themselves and save whatever they can, including many lives to prove a Kurdistan cannot come about under the current circumstances and events.
Its no secret that the Kurds are in cahoots with the Zionist Israeli government and media. For they are the ‘darlings’ of the Jews in the Middle-East. These Jews have high hopes on the Kurds. But then we all know that when it comes to mid-to-long term thinking, Jews/Israel/U.S. leadership is in serious lack of.
The Kurds have a choice. Their next moves will be crucial. I ask them to heed common sense.
In the 50s over Korea Russian MiGs shot down over 1000 US pilots until Washington got the message.
““It can be said with confidence that the Soviet airmen who fought in Korea, causing so much damage to the enemy’s bomber aviation, had put off the threat of a Third World War, a nuclear war, for a long time,””
https://www.rbth.com/blogs/continental_drift/2017/03/23/mig-alley-how-air-war-over-korea-became-bloodbath-west-725501
The difference is that those NK MIGs were (theoretically) piloted by North Koreans.
If the Russians shoot down US aircraft over Syria, US politics will demand a massive retaliation against Russian assets,, and WWIII will be days away.
The only question which remains is: are the Neocons running American policy *that* insane? Stephen F Cohen likens those madmen to a Doomsday cult, and says the answer is “yes”.
“If the Russians shoot down US aircraft over Syria, US politics will demand a massive retaliation against Russian assets,, and WWIII will be days away”.
I’m sorry Kim but this is a fable and a myth happily allowed by the US to get incorporated into peoples’ belief systems allowing the US reign of terror to continue unchallenged.
You cannot be suggesting that the regime in Washington would risk the total destruction of several US cities to avenge the loss of 1 downed F16?
They may be evil but they are not stupid.
Such an action – showing seriousness about Syria’s sovereignty and taking down an attacking plane would save lives and make war less likely.
And nothing changed.
It would not be Evil Russians (TM) that would attack USAF jets, it would be some vague peaceful protesters, who somehow managed to tame and launch an alley S-300
just like with NK MiGs.
and remember, two months ago Putin said SAA has to see its air fleet and air defense brought to modern level. Which means SAA has to order anr to receive ne w jets and rockets, AND new well-trained personnel for them.
in NK there was a joke about pilot Li Sy Tsyn, why not in Syria
“Russian MoD declares it will shoot down any aircraft flying west of the Euphrates river”
They said they would track the aircraft as air targets. A very different thing. Had the Russians said they would shoot them down, they would be handing the decision making, and thus, the initiative, to israel’s cowardly pindo quislings. Saying tracked, rather than attacked, the Russians not only are not boxing themselves into a corner of israel’s choosing, they present israel’s quislings with an uncertain situation of not knowing if they will be attacked or not. Thereby taking the initiative away from the zionazis and leaving them completely in the dark about what sort of response to expect. This will complicate their war crime ops much more.
the word “track” is just not to lose face to the allies. a more polite way of appeasing the Syrians and the Iranians. the question now is if the Russians have tracked, will they shoot? I highly doubt it. When faced with americans the russians will not fire the first shot.
What they can do is “intercept”, i.e., fly a Russian plane near the American one. Then it’s up to the US to decide to shoot down a Russian plane as a “threat”.
After which Russia could declare all of Syria’s airspace a “no-fly zone” for everyone but the SAA and Russia. Which would again put the onus on the US to start the war.
Not that this game of “chicken” couldn’t quickly escalate to a hot war between the US and Russia in Syria.
But the US seems determined to push it closer to that incrementally, while building up its forces in Syria in anticipation of such a war. The US will continue to incrementally attack the SAA and force Russia to take action against it. Basically the US and Russia are trying to force each other to “blink”.
Oh, and the other thing they can do is start escorting the Syrian fighter-bombers with their air-to-air fighters like they did when Turkey shot down the Russian plane.
Then the US has to decide whether to take on two fighters – one of which is a superior Russian fighter with probably one of Russia’s top pilots flying it. :-)
I agree, AP reports Viktor Ozerov, chairman of the defense and security committee at the upper chamber of Russian parliament, insisted that Russia will be tracking the coalition’s jets, not shooting them down, but he added that “a threat for those jets may appear only if they take action that pose a threat to Russian aircraft.” So i.e., if the US fires on a Russian (not Syrian) jet, Russia might fire back (and we see from the Turkey experience that firing back is far from a foregoing conclusion).
http://hosted2.ap.org/APDefault/*/Article_2017-06-19-Syria/id-371357b2c20e4aaa982d07da071a7f7a
Incidentally, israel’s recent increased aggression against Syria, by proxy, has been coordinated with their 5 column in Russia. Last week the israeli proxy yablonka (? spelling) party announced an “antiwar” campaign against Russian involvement in Syria. Along with aipac’s Russia/Iran sanctions bill in the pindo colony’s senate and the renewed push in their eu colony to extend sanctions. Expect things to heat up more in ukronaziland, as well.
This incident once again underscores the weakness of the Russian alliance. Why does Syria and Russia even contemplate US forces or proxies in the legitimate land that is Syria?
I believe it is simply a manpower and weakness issue. They simply cannot enforce border security on land nor air. The US Deep State will partition Syria and use irregular forces under a new name to destroy Syria.
Russia looks weak. They are scared to shoot down any US jet.
http://theduran.com/international-law-vs-imperialism-the-new-phase-of-war-in-syria/
if i am permitted to re-post here too-still relevant
Sorry to ask a basic question, but aren’t the coalition forces operating in violation of international law?
I realize they don’t give a toss about that, but if the coalition is indeed violating Syrian air space and violating international law, shouldn’t this point be emphasized and repeated?
To discipline children — and sadly, the most Americans have an adolescent-level understanding of the conflict in the ME and thus allow their govt a pass on foreign policy — it is often necessary to say the same thing over and over, to keep hammering on them until they get with the program.
This is not only against international law, but even against the US constitution as well.
But you are right, they just don’t give a damn and the Congress just looks the other way. The only way that the US forces will back down is when they foresee that they will be humiliated (like that ‘armada’ sended to North Korea, just imagine that they get torpedoed).
But the situation looks volatile to me, with this chances that US forces clash with Iran or Russia.
Yes, the Russian MoD stressed international law.
Shooting down the plane is also an obvious act of aggression and halfway to a full casus belli, just by common sense. Not to mention their illegal training camp at al-Tanf and the funds and weapons they’re giving to the rebels. But there are dangerous ultra-neocons in the Trump cabinet who want war to happen.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/16/white-house-officials-push-for-widening-war-in-syria-over-pentagon-objections/amp/
@ “Sorry to ask a basic question, but aren’t the coalition forces operating in violation of international law?”
Decide for yourself. The U.S. invasion is predicated on a request from Iraq to provide a joint defense to ISIL’s invasion of Iraq. That much is lawful. But the U.S. presence in Syria depends on the legal theory that Syria is “unable or unwilling” to protect Iraq from ISIL forces crossing over the Iraq border from Syria. See former U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Samantha Power letter here. (That letter also raises a self-defense argument, but that excuse would only be available — if at all — when an attack on the U.S. was “imminent,” hardly the situation with ISIL in Syria.)
The “unable or unwilling” to protect from non-government forces invading another country excuse is not universally accepted is international law, i.e., is not — at least yet — customary international law.
But U.S. reliance on that theory — even if valid international law — is assailable because the U.S. has itself contributed to interfering with Syria’s ability to control ISIL by financing and supplying Syrian “rebels” with training and weapons to attack the Syrian government, i.e., by waging an unlawful proxy war of aggression against the Syrian government. Thus the U.S. is in a very poor position to invoke Syria’s inability to control ISIL as an excuse to invade Syria.
The closest authority is in the case of Nicaragua v. United States of America. See particularly the dissenting opinion of Judge Stephen Schwegel, I.C.J. Reports (1986), pp. 272, 382-384, 268-272, (extended discussion of unclean hands doctrine in international law), reprinted in copyable format (“one party cannot avail himself of the fact that the other has not fulfilled some obligation … if the former party has, by some illegal act, prevented the latter from fulfilling the obligation in question[.]”) See also id. at 272: “In contemporary international law, the State which first undertakes specified unprovoked, unlawful uses of force against another State – such as substantial involvement in the sending of armed bands onto its territory – is, prima facie, the aggressor.” (The same principles were relied upon in the majority opinion of the Court but were given expanded treatment in Judge Schwegel’s dissent.)
A large number of scholars of international law in the West have pronounced U.S. involvement as lawful under the joint defense/unwilling or unable theories, but none that I have read have addressed the fact that the U.S. bears very large responsibility for the Syrian government’s inability to suppress ISIL. With massive Congressional appropriations to provide the Syrian “rebels” with training, weapons, and supplies, U.S. interference with the Syrian government’s ability to control ISIL is beyond question.
Personally, I believe that an unbiased international tribunal would be highly unlikely to uphold the U.S. invasion.
The US doesn’t give a crap about theories or international law.
The law of the Jungle applies……invasion of Iraq, the destruction of Libya, Vietnam war, occupation of Afghanistan..
The better the US as nation ceases to exist the better for humanity.
@Paul, wow, thanks for this super-detailed answer to my question.
If an unbiased international tribunal would be highly unlikely to uphold the U.S. invasion, all the more reason for people to call attention to this and keep repeating in the media that the US is in this instance an aggressor. No?
Also, it might not be material in this situation, but couldn’t it be argued that Iraq wouldn’t be asking the US for joint defense in the first place if the US hadn’t unlawfully toppled the govt there?
The weak part of the argument of “unwilling or unable to defend” is not just the US and its vassals heavily fund, arm and train not only ISIS but a host of other insurgencies, but they have actively attacked Syrian forces who were trying to reduce the threat. The use of force has to be proportionate and properly directed. If the US were only bombing ISIS, I doubt even Assad would object. However that is far from the case. The fact that it is possible to formulate a theory that would justify, under some interpretation of international law, the use of force, is a far cry from the facts on the ground actually justifying it.
Also in reading Samantha Power’s letter, it is the first time that I have heard that Iraq requested the US to bomb ISIS in Syria. Did that really happen? I have only read about Iraqi requests to help Iraq defeat ISIS in Iraq itself. In any case, back during the Iraq War, when the US was accusing Assad of supporting al Qaeda (lol) by letting them stream across the border, the US was absolutely certain that Syria could stop border infiltrations. If that is the case, wouldn’t the far more technologically and militarily advanced (i.e., infrared drones and satellites, armed drones, much more aircraft and helicopters, etc.) US be able to stop ISIS crossings at a whim? And if so, what is the need to arm Kurds and prevent Syrian government forces from operating in “Kurdistan”?
The whole thing makes no sense at all unless you are divorced from reality and willing to believe whatever BS the US diplomatic corps is serving up at the moment.
Zion feels the heat and keeps committing blunder after blunder.
The once again abjectly idiotic, cowardly, mission-un-critical shoot-down of Syrian fighter jet (pilot apparently rescued by Syrian special forces) won’t help the Talmudist cause the tiniest bit. On the contrary.
The well-tuned and superbly coordinated Syrian-Russian-Hezbollah-Iraqi-PMU-Iranian alliance will in response upscale their operations a notch or two.
Long live Syria!
Some crucial Intel updates by Canthama:
“the US regime is provoking constantly the Syrian Government to retaliate, they want “pretext” to escalate the war, they are using everything and everybody toward this objective.
The past MO for a situation like this one is that RuAF will take over Tiger’s CAS and will use bombers and fighter jets to protect the bombers.
– – –
Total 4 Iranian ballistic missiles reached their target in Der ez zor Provinces, it seems primary target was the new ISIS capital in Mayaden, by the Euphrates.
– – –
No doubt the US regime attack on the Su22 was a provocation, but one that was completely unnecessary, there was no fight between the SAA and SDF, actually both organizations were coordinating in that front not to clash one to another, but then comes the Su22 event.
This is no tribal NDF from Hasaka group, this is a battle hardened group, proud of its achievement that care very very much for the CAS they get from SAAF.
SDF troops at this frontline are no match for the Tigers, if the on going clashes are not de escalated quickly, we will see serious consequences all over Syria.
The Syrian and allies campaign to Der ez Zor is the root cause of the coalition of killing desperation, they know Der ez Zor staying with Syria will mean their plan of cutting Syria in piece will be gone and most likely Hasaka will turn into a fight between arabs and kurds, for the coalition of killing, they need ISIS to take Der ez Zor at any and all cost.
The comment that it could be intentional hit to distract the Tiger to advance full force on the right banks of the Euphrates may be very much correct.
We recently saw two different forms of retaliations:
1)
Iran started to retaliate for US/KSA/ISIS terrorist attack in Tehran by firing Surface to Surface ballistic missiles into ISIS in Syria. More asymmetrical responses will come from Iran.
2)
As with al Tanf air attacks by the US/ISIS airforce, the retaliation came by boxing-in the US regime and its terrorists in the empty desert border post. The operation was planned by the Syrian High Command, Iraq, Hizballah and Russian.
It is only natural to think that there will be asymmetrical responses in northern Syria due to this international law violation by the US regime, of course the fate of the pilot can be an aggravation on the response and time.
– – –
Events continue to evolve in Syria, quite quickly, showing the collapse of ISIS to be faster than anticipated.
1)
The advance toward T3-T2 road will continue to be done under no media cover, this is in fact a very large operation to clean ISIS from their few positions inside the desert (mostly water wells and reservoirs). Soon more news will be available. Another aspect to this is the coordination with Iraq’s Army and PMU.
2)
Events near Resafa was planned and intentional. The US is pushing their toys toward the Syrian Army to make it difficult for them to get to the right banks of the Euphrates. The shot down of the Su22 was absolutely a make up situation where the US alleged said SAAF bombing a village that was in fact under Tiger forces already, fake motives. Clearly trying to provoke a wider conflict between the SDF and SAA and block the Tiger to access this vital road (side by side with the pipeline) to the right banks of the Euphrates.
No one is buying the US regime press release, it was completely full of lies that could easily be debunked.
Resafa is fully liberated, and the Tiger will continue to pursue its target.
3)
While all eyes are on Resafa, the SAA has quickly advanced today from Ithriyah to close the Khanaser pocket, now mostly emptied of ISIS. This will be sealed today or tomorrow. Early reports that the SAA has reached Zakia crossroad, some 15 kms left.
– – –
The whole game from the coalition of killing is to delay the SAA and allies from reaching Der ez Zor and reclaim most of the eastern Syria.
The situation with SDF is currently unclear. The SDF is a very fragile organization, there is very strong differences between some of the Syrian kurds, Arabs and Assyrians, when the time is ripe, internal struggle will occur, but by now the focus is to occupy ISIS held territory and play the childish game to block the SAA from reaching Der ez Zor.
– – –
News from Hasaka Province is also encouraging, recent meeting called by the PYD to push Arabs to revolt agains the Central Government failed to get traction.
The Syrian Government has elected a popular Arab leader to drive the formation of the PMU, trained by the Iraqi PMU (Sunni & Shia), with clear intent to create solid foundation to reclaim Hasaka in the future.”
Can’t understand why you printed that as your headline as it is most definitely not what the Russian MOD have said.
They intend merely to track such aircraft – something I imagine they have already been doing anyway as Russia knows exactly who is doing what and where.in Syria.
So really nothing new there.
The US will ignore this statement in any case and carry on murdering Syrian and Iraqi civilians and their defence forces.
Am I being too cynical? No – the only thing the US understands is force.
They have been as North Korean leader Kim says a rogue gangster criminal regime since the get go.
I hope I’m wrong but I reckon the interval between now and he next US outrage can be measured in days.
Let’s just see what effect the latest Russian statement has in reality.
yeah but Russians say little and do more – I think that they’re counting and at some point there will be a chess move that surprises everyone
US general and other 1% may easily ignore it – their tails are not on the line.
But would the USAF pilots be able to ignore it knowing they are becoming kamikaze for the 1% profits ?
The whack-jobs running the show are hell bent on fulfilling their demented apocalyptic visions. There is nothing to be done in the face of such aggression except to hit back.
Little do the money-drunk (and their ball-gargling sycophants) realize, once the jet stream completely destabilizes, none of their petty god-squabbling will matter.
tick-tock. poor us.
I think the title this article is very appropriate:
Russia will regard any flights within the area of its air force group’s operation in Syria as legitimate targets
More:
http://tass.com/defense/952119
The only thing that can make me happy is to see Americans being humiliated militarily.
I want to see retribution, before I die. I want to see justice being served and the Americans punished. Anything less then that is not enough for these criminal evil scum.
You don’t have to look far. Afghanistan. Vietnam. Iraq. Or if you want to pony up a few million, the video footage of them being annihilated at Saddam International in 2003 (if you can stomach beheading and cannibalism of yankee POWs).
Well said. I share the way you feel about US. Would love to see them bleeding.
I believe they really said they will “target” any coalition aircraft flying near exact Russian operations. No US aircraft will be shot down.
“targeting” is simply what must be done prior to firing, Comrade. The sequence is a one-way function. One cannot fire and then target,,,so to speak.
Is polite rhetoric. No threat or conditional “if you do this then I will do…” Such things are frankly stupid because they hand the initiative in strategy to the opponent…
In my youth I often targeted small (and not small) game animals in rifle sights. I seldom fired.
But I never fired without targeting first… waste of ammo and it calls in the heat…dumb! Scares off the critters too, and you go home hungry.
As to US aircraft…I am willing to bet they’ll start downing the drones, thus “forcing” the US to fly recon at low altitude… That has charming new ways for trouble to develop, eh?
When they fly manned recon they’ll lose aircraft, just as they did in Cuba doing the same thing…in 1962
LZ99
Dangerous developments ahead, also the Saudis are crying foul. They claim that the Iranians wanted to attack an offshore oilfield: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-19/saudis-foil-iranian-terror-attack-major-offshore-oilfield
I don’t buy this story completely. The boats could have been off-course (misnavigation), the explosives could also have been a few grenades or flares, and I wouldn’t wave the Iranian flag if I would do a clandestine operation.
If the Iranians really would sabotage the Saudi oil, it would be better to blow up the large tanker loading facilities at the docks in the Northeast.
In case it hasn’t been mentioned yet – Tiger forces rescued the pilot who ejected from the plane. The story’s on Fort Russ.
Perfect. Pilot alive, plane shot down, stakes rising. Iran responded already, now RF has responded – and I see Lavrov out there laying down some law also – and the US looks painted tighter and tighter into its own stupid corner.
With the pilot alive, the RF and Iran responses weigh as far more deadly than the US provocation – it scares the US to have the deconflict cooperation ended – and yet Syria has not been tricked into wrong action.
Maybe it’s time to lose a few US drones next?
Putin should get up in front of the UN and explain and prove that the US is supporting ISIS terrorists.
The UN is in the pocket of the Western-Zionist alliance……I mean come on, the UN headquarters is located in New York.
The UN is pathetic and no country should rely on it for anything.
Hmmm, already done.
Putin: ISIS financed from 40 countries, including G20 members
https://www.rt.com/news/322305-isis-financed-40-countries/
President Vladimir Putin says he’s shared Russian intelligence data on Islamic State financing with his G20 colleagues: the terrorists appear to be financed from 40 countries, including some G20 member states.
During the summit, “I provided examples based on our data on the financing of different Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) units by private individuals.
This money, as we have established, comes from 40 countries and, there are some of the G20 members among them,” Putin told the journalists.
That was in 2015
And there’s dozens of similar statements.
Even Putin acknowledges “no one is listening”
What do I have to do to get through to you people?”
YouTube for: SPIEF2016
The incident resulted in both, the crash of a plane and the loss of a pilot.
http://www.fort-russ.com/2017/06/shooting-down-syrian-jet-clearly-shows.html
I find it incredible that people are now discussing whether the US is or is not abiding by “international law”. When was the last time that the US followed any kind of nternational law?? Wasit when they bombed the hell out of Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia for a full decade, killing millions for no discernible reason other than the pleasure of destruction? Was it when they destroyed Irak and sent millions of people to death or permanent misery? Was it when they destroyed Libya? Was it during the weekly kill lists presented to Obama every Tuesday to figure which weddings or funerals or houses they should drone? When was it exactly? Clearly, by any normal standard of international behaviour (say the principles outlined in the Nuremberg trials, in which the crime of agression is said to be the “supreme crime”, the US has been the world’s biggest crimial state since that time. Who can doubt that?
From the Nuremberg judgment:
“To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime, differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.”
In the words of U.S. Justice Robert Jackson, chief counsel for the prosecution during those trials:
“The record on which we judge these defendants is the record on which history will judge us tomorrow. To pass these defendants a poisoned chalice is to put it to our own lips as well.”
A mouth full of meal should not make those kinds of statements. The way things look, we are going straight to world government. We are already pretty much there in a way.
It is not only incredible……It is insulting to the intelligence of the rest of humanity.
These suggestions of “rule of law”, “international law”, “UN”, bla bla bla……
These suggestions are truly an insult to humanity.
Why are people fooling themselves about international law….How long will they fool themselves about international law ??
Are the people in West so brainwashed that they actually believe they can convince the rest of us about the “international law” they created after massacring millions of people in their World Wars, the international law they police on others, and the international law they do not follow.
Please stop with the insulting of our intelligence, its reaching absolutely nauseating levels.
Stop fooling yourselves and speak the damn truth…..plane and simple. The truth is simple, the truth is clear….Even a child can seen and understand the truth. Stop clouding and fogging your mind with rubbish and speak the truth.
I agree with your general assessment, but when you say “the US has been the world’s biggest criminal state since that time. Who can doubt that?” the fact is that millions of people *do* doubt that. Millions of Americans, especially, would stop listening to anybody following this line of reasoning, and needless to say they are also registered voters, etc.
So the question then becomes: how do we speak to them? How do we appeal to them to open their eyes to the historical record that you have summarized? How do we appeal to them to consider the Nuremberg judgments, for example?
This is one reason why it might be helpful to have some clarity on the question of international law. Of course you are right that US policymakers have ignored this for much of the postwar period, but if we concede that, then we have fewer means to dialogue with others.
I find that recently there has been a considerable amount of comments on this site decrying Russia as weak, fearful and being on the losing side. Either these commentators still don’t get the Russian game or they are provocateurs. Time is on Russia’s side, the hegemon’s economy is hollowed out, so why would Russia start a war now? Yes, Russia is ready for war, they have the most formidable nuclear triade, air defense, electronic combat means, artillery and special forces in the world. But Russia doesn’t want war because it knows the horror of war. Not responding to idiotic provocations has got nothing to do with fear, it’s responsibility for the survival of mankind.
Russia has two options:
Stand Up, or Pack It Up from Syria.
Cost of Production of FEDERAL REZERVE BANK NOTES is:
$10 10.9 cents per note
$20 12.2 cents per note
$50 19.4 cents per note
$100 15.5 cents per note
So FEDS can support any kind of war, with unlimited capitals.
Not when oil and gas gets sold in Remnibi backed by gold I would suggest?
The days of seniorage of the USD are very much numbered.
@ Comeygate on June 19, 2017·at 9:56 pm UTC
Whoever controls the money supply, controls the world. Governments are only illusion.
Rothschild.
The US national debt numbers are too large to truly comprehend. They borrowed so many trillions of dollars, it’s impossible for US to pay back any of this money by honest means. The only option is to print an endless stream of dollars to met those obligations … The Federal Reserve calls it “quantitative easing”. It’s simply the process of creating more dollars. However, the more we print, the less each dollar is worth. When the global financial industry loses faith completely in the U.S. dollar, it will look for another sound currency. It will want gold…
And once we reach the tipping point … those who hold the futures contracts that give them the right to receive gold will demand delivery. They won’t take dollars in exchange.
But remember …. It is impossible that all the gold that people supposedly have the “right” to actually exist.
I believe that any investment vehicle based on gold exchange-traded funds will be in trouble.
The FEDS know this and they have sequestered more than 60 % of global gold reserves for now.
So for a lifetime, I believe, the US dollar still will stay as a hard currency.
If the impossible may happen, and another hard currency will take over the dollar, they who will be in control of the new money supply will try to control the world.
Take a look at the trajectories of the US and RF economies before assuming that a long-term struggle advantages the US.
Then consider the actual readiness of the two armed forces (with emphasis on their being fully equipped with fully functional equipment. Don’t omit the navies and air forces).
Then consider some recent technologically based events like the embarrassing surprises (to the US) in the Black Sea region which turned expectations upside down.
Gilbert Doctorow says: “…In line with that decision, all allied air operations near where the Russian air force is flying will be targeted and destroyed.” http://usforeignpolicy.blogs.lalibre.be/archive/2017/06/19/syria-seedbed-of-wwiii-1158999.html
Destroyed.
Gil probably has the dope on the thing, he chooses his words carefully.
The good news from the US strategic blunder is that the Su-22 pilot is safe, after being rescued by SAA Tiger Forces from ISIS-held territory. The better news is that the SAA has taken Resafa at the junction of the 6/42 major highways and sealed off all roads west from Raqqa.
Ok. this may seem to be a specious line of “reasoning” but the deep state wants to hang ‘dupe of Putin” on Trump by any way they can. Hence the set up in Syria.
1. If Trump cooperates with the Russians and lets them be i.e. “backs down” then they will portray that as an impeachable (treason) offense.
2. If he orders an attack in the “fly if you dare” zone just set up West of the Euphrates, then he will be lauded ( for awhile) as a useful fool and so the series of planned escalations will begin leading up to a larger war with Iran sometime down the line.
The foolish Kurds, of course, are expendable or maybe can be used as props for the latest Hollywood staged victim campaign before they are betrayed irrevocably.
My prediction is that the American people will not buy another war in the mid East. Make American Great Again means to most people taking on the corrupt elites in NYC and Washington and rebuilding the infrastructure and American job market.
I hope the American people will not buy “another war in the mid East”. But they certainly might buy a war against Iran. The renewed demonization of Iran is not without currency of purpose. If Iran is attacked, Syria goes along for the awful ride. Russia could not claim to have stakes in such a conflict, and would likely have to sit out the action (which would probably suit them fine). The warmongers must be ecstatic to see Iran taking autonomous military action within, or as regards, Syria.
With the Americans, a lot depends on what something is called. I have no doubt that the American people will indeed accept more war. It just has to be properly packaged. The media will perform that task, no problem. When has this never been the case? And, unlike with Russia, there are no US concerns (correctly or not) about Iran’s defensive capabilities.
The Americans won’t have any problem affording it. They will just keep printing money. The important limitation on US money printing applies when foreigners stop accepting or keeping greenbacks. As bought-Treasuries finance a new war, foreign holders of those existing will hold on to them as they rise in value. Unlimited sums of US dollahs can be promised to military contractors located domestically. Most of the necessary funding is already in place, and so is the market pricing for it (Trump’s $50-billion increase). The US dollar is unscathed from that. If the US is self-sufficient at anything, it is in making and deploying war machinery (oh, and shale-oil too).
They want Iran. They may seek a reason to attack Iran, but certainly do not think they need approval to attack Iran – not from the people, least of all. Just a reason; pretense being a better word for it. The US has lost Syria as originally intended, but war along with Iran will return Syria as a dividend. We can speculate all we want on how this or that move by the US is unreasonable and therefore creates unacceptable losses, is not practical to do, too costly, and so on. None of that matters.
Also, it goes without saying, if at war, the US will tell all their T-bill holders to go fly a kite. If they are that polite. Anyone associated with the SCO and OBOR will be left holding the bag. These guys are pros.
Bottom line: People give the Americans way too much credit for the exercise of reason. If they think they can win, they’ll try that, and if they come out on top, they’ll write the history books to say whatever they want. Following that, they’ll create an international financial system just how they want it.
New Data About Fate Of Pilot Of Syrian SU-22 Downed By US Warplane.
“According to pro-government sources, Ali Fahed, a pilot of the Syrian Su-22 warplane downed by the US-led collation on June 18 has not been rescued yet.
Al-Mayadeen TV network – one of the biggest Arabian news networks – claimed that the pilot was rescued by a special force from the Syrian Arab Army Tiger Forces.
However, hours later Al-Mayadeen TV reported that the early claim was false and the pilot is still missing.
According to pro-government activists, sources close to the Ali family claimed that he had been captured by the Syrian Democratic Force (SDF).
Other sources from the Syrian Arab Army (SAA) also said that Ali was captured by a group linked to the SDF south of Tabqah and that negotiations are now underway between the group and the SAA to release him as soon as possible.
However, none of these reports can be officially confirmed now. No official source from the Syrian government or the SDF has announced anything related to the fate of the missing pilot.” Quote.
https://southfront.org/new-data-about-fate-of-pilot-of-syrian-su-22-downed-by-us-warplane/
We see comments expressing that “time is on Russia’s side” because the US “economy is hollowed out” and of course the empire is on “suicide watch” and collapse is always imminent, just like the collapse of the regime in Kiev. The USD days are “numbered” and the “American people” will not “buy” another war.
Ha.
The truth is that the US economy being “hollowed out” means nothing with regard to the US capacity to keep creating dollars and shoving them down the world’s throat to finance its unlimited mercenary chaos creators. There is no indication that the USD is about to be rejected as the world’s main reserve currency. Russia keeps buying US debt. And of course the “American people” will keep “buying” as many wars as they are told to buy or eat. No problem there. What exactly would the American people do in the unlikely event they didn’t like a certain war? The biggest antiwar protests were during the Vietnam war, and not even that was the cause of their withdrawal from Vietnam. They withdrew only because they were defeated. That’s the only way they can be made to withdraw, not by protests. And since then, antiwar protests have not been exactly massive, have they? In any case, the US does not need a lot of its own troops to wreck destruction wherever it wants. The availability of willing mercenary terrorists is exactly as unlimited as the US ability to create dollars. These “wars” are practically free for the US. The world pays for them by eating a regular diet of US debt.
Wishful thinking should have limitations.
I don’t know if “Russia keeps buying US debt”, but apart from that I find this assessment spot on. Just like the one made by hardlooker above, with the proviso that I don’t think Uncle Sam has the muscle to take on Iran.
Just to add to all the “cheery” comments here.
Shower thought: Remember those Russian planes it was reported about 6months back that the US had?
People then were speculating about a false flag.
With the “fog” of war already starting to cloak events – a good ole United Snakes false flag ?
IMPORTANT!
The entire war nerd interview with Elijah J. Magnier is available here:
https://t.co/wHqRKfGQPW
fake news
or should i said better “fake headlines” ?
> will be tracked by Russian ground and air defense
> will shoot down any aircraft
I believe military analyst Saker claims to be knows the difference between skirmish and reconnaissance, that is between “shooting down” and between “tracking”
I hope Saker’s blog would remain hi quality analytics, not “pathetic americans pathetically flee” fan service club
Dear Arioch,
I don’t agree with you that this is fake news. This announcement of the Russian MoD can be found everywhere, including Russian sites.
You state rightly, that the term ‘tracking’ was used (or ‘painting’ as it is called in military circles). The Kremlin remains silent on asked commentary whether the RF would actually shoot down an USAF plane when it would assault SAA forces. Personally I doubt that, but is it worth the risk?
The F/A-18 USAF airplane that shot down a Syrian Su-22, was based at the aircraft carrier USS H.W. Bush, located in the Mediterranean. So, any plane from there has to fly over zones in Syria with Russian air control, and no communication anymore.
Some commentators here have speculated, but that is ‘part of the game’ here.
I’m of the opinion that the announcement itself was posted rightly.
shooting down an USAF airplane? no problem. I am a Serb, we have downed large amounts of USAF flying sh.t-buckets, three of them supposed to be invisible (sorry about that, we did not know they were invisible!), around 1000 tomahawks, at least 40 fighter/bomber airplanes, a B-52, more that 100 NATO special forces members and pilots were eliminated also….Russians should not be afraid of USA, since they and 19 other European nations, in a fair game (no carpet bombing of urban areas, no terror bombing of civilian targets), could not do a thing to us….After 2 and a half months of utter embarrassment, frustrated Americans finally pulled out their classical winning move – “we will nuke you”, “we will carpet-bomb urban areas”….
The Yanks shot down an Iranian drone today:
US Jet Shoots Down Syrian Army Drone In “Dangerous Escalation”
A US F-15E fighter jet shot down a Syrian regime drone on Monday near At Tanf, Syria, the third downing of a pro-regime aircraft this month…
I recall the story about setting up microwave sources in places where there was nothing…well, there was a microwave source – maybe a microwave over magnitron with the door latch shorted…any the story was that OTAN would “discover the “radar” ” and spend major bigbucks blowing up the decoy…
Can this be?
Just asking…sounds workable…one would need long wire runs or generators though, and get well away in short time, so as to watch the show…
So, Friend, is story true…?
LZ99
After the demise of the Ottoman Empire the West stepped in the Balkan and is still there. The West dismembered the Austro-Hungarian Empire and created the so called Yugoslavia ruled by Josip Broz Tito. The west decided to dismember Yugoslavia and they did it.
I believe 22 years are not enough to wipe out the memories of Operation Storm.
Operation Storm (Serbo-Croatian: Operacija Oluja, Операција Олуја) was the last major battle of the Croatian War of Independence and a major factor in the outcome of the Bosnian War. It was a decisive victory for the Croatian Army (HV), which attacked across a 630-kilometre (390 mi) front against the Republic of Serbian Krajina (RSK), and a strategic victory for the Army of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina (ARBiH). Operation Storm started at dawn on 4 August 1995 and was declared complete on the evening of 7 August, despite significant mopping-up operations against pockets of resistance lasting until 14 August.
Regarding Serbia, the West wanted a regime change and they did it on 1999.
If Serbs like to taste the West, then go and start a war against Slovenia, Croatia, Albania or Montenegro, to understand the meaning of the word N.A.T.O.
A few days later, what is the bigger development?
Russia is going to light up US air platforms West of the Euphrates or Iran’s ballistic missiles strikes, 6 of them launched from two different cities in Iran, striking ISIS at Deir ez Zor zone HQ in al Mayadin?
The former is tactical and geopolitical.
The latter is strategic. It portends, along with the developing strength of Iraqi PMUs taking the border with Syria, and some news that Syrian PMUs are forming also,
that Iran is on the move.
Iran is claiming its presence in Syria, not just its influence and its desires to have corridors for transport of military equipment to Hezbollah.
The missiles substitute for an air force. Drones + missiles are what will decide who stays and who goes in Syria once ISIS is finished. If the US wants to stay, it will have to defend against Iranian missiles.
So the strikes were strategic. Similar to Sept. 30, 2015 when the RuAF showed up in Syria.
Those six missiles sent notice to Saudis, Israelis and US that Teheran can hurt them badly, and will respond if the new anti-Iran coalition strikes Iran.
In poker terms, the US has been called and the ante has been upped.
well, they seem to have anted-up and said they’ll stay…as they just blew up an Iranian robot fly-machine, aka “drone”… So saying “bring it!”
Very brave flys… Flies? Yes, they have conquered the fly-paper….now where’s the fly….?
You fill in the missing word for the quiz!
Iran has machines…
about flies…
CHAPTER 5
“Conquest after conquest, deeper into molasses. His laughter choked him and he coughed into his handkerchief. “Maybe the Leader is crazy. Flies conquer the flypaper. Flies capture two hundred miles of new flypaper!”
That’s Steinbeck….
Russia is much weaker than most of here are ready to admit. But it doesn’t mean Washington is winning anything either. China let Russia and US/Nato keep their unnecessary mud wrestling and focus big picture – the future where Europe/USA/Russia are weaker than ever since 1700’s.
Do you not realize that much of China’s wealth is also tied up with US, Japan, and Europe? Read the posts on this blog about China-Russia collaboration and the 上海合作组织 to understand the true intentions of the author and commentators.
US definitely has the upper hand in the sheer amount of technological destruction, economic power, and covert ops they are capable of. But they are a rudderless ship. Military victories come from the collective strength of the nation united behind a common cause, and US and Russia are not comparable in that regard.
Where is Russia’s weakness?
It has more nukes, more hidden, more mobile,more with impossible to defend programming, and more set for South Pole navigation against a virtually defenseless USA from that direction.
If all of NATO and the US tried a land war against Russia, say in the Baltics and Ukraine, Russia is built specifically and would destroy it all. Some Western generals, the Brits, the Germans, some other NATO experts basically say it would be war of less than a week.
Russia missile defenses are obviously impregnable.
Russian EW has demonstrated it is the best of class in the world.
So where is it weak.
Russia demonstrated it can airlift 155,000 men and equipment from any district in Russia to any other district easily. Airlift is major proof of strength.
The Russian move into Syria was astounding how fast and efficiently they suddenly appeared and went into battle so smoothly. Then flew 24/7 for 5 months straight until the entire war was reversed in favor of Syria.
A few other object lessons of strength. Crimea, polite green men, 25,000 special operators rotated in and the older troops out, without a shot fired.
And Donbass. The US military is still trying to figure out what the hell is going on there. Spotted 3:1, the Ukies with NATO support has gotten destroyed in three major cauldrons against what was still at that time a militia.
Russian submarines and missiles, Russian aircraft and Russian ballistic missiles and cruise missiles outperform all known specs. The Kalibr has twice to three times the reach as a Tomahawk.
I’m no military analyst or military expert or military man.
But the facts are overwhelming.
Russia’s weakness is it’s ultimate strength.
It doesn’t have bases all over the globe.
It doesn’t have a big navy.
It is built to defend Mother Russia, not to conquer other nations.
If attacked, the attacker will be utterly destroyed in place.
Russia has demonstrated it has the best sappers in the world, de-mining Syrian land and urban cities. For example, in the first month post Aleppo success freeing the city from terrorists, the Russian sappers cleared 44,000 IEDs and other bombs and mines. No casualties.
The US, monsterously large, hasn’t won a war since WWII.
It can destroy whole countries and kill millions of people with its “strength”, but it needs proxies to fight its wars. Its military cannot truly fight any longer.
Nazis in Ukraine and the Balkans, jihadis in MENA, AQ all over the globe are US “strength”.
It’s ship, the most strong of its class, the USS Fitzgerald, got crashed by a container ship, even though the Fitz had two radar systems. The shootdown of the 40 year old Su-22 took two missiles. The first missed. The second didn’t really kill. The pilot bailed. And we know the US “lost” 36 Tomahawks when it fired 59 at the Syrian Airbase.
If the US is so strong, why can’t it defeat anyone of significant capability anywhere?
The Vietnamese demonstrated 40 years ago that the strength of a nation’s military is the morale of its people. Now the Syrian people have proven the same.
As for the strength of the political leadership of Russia, the military leadership and the diplomatic leadership, it totally dwarfs the endless lineup of morons, blowhards, incompetents and mentally and morally diseased US leadership.
I leave you with this: Satan II, the RS 28 Sarmat ICBM.
Read the specs on that baby and you will understand what strength is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-28_Sarmat
http://www.mirror.co.uk/tech/russia-test-unstoppable-satan-2-7935675
“West of the Euphrates”
What about the rest of Syria?
Please check this article
/shoygu-reported-to-vladimir-putin-about-successful-liquidation-of-the-head-of-isis/
Mod
There’s something some people have been failing to understand.
The Russian response of closing the communications link with US forces, and “tracking & targeting” US aircraft is actually a highly significant response.
To all the armchair warriors who say “it’s not real unless they commit to ‘actually’ shooting down a US aircraft” I would reply, that you don’t know what flying a mission in contested airspace is really like.
The Russians’ actions will act as a very significant deterrent to US aircraft, even though there has been no ultimatum issued about firing on US craft.
Think about what flying in a place like Syria is like for the pilot in the cockpit.
Previously, when he took off, he knew that the Russians were advising his officers about their intentions, and vice versa, and neither Syrian nor Russian missile brigades were “lighting up” their craft with radar lock-on.
Crew could fly their missions relatively securely, with little danger even from ground fire, and flying missions were routine.
Now, they will have to go out knowing that their command is in the dark about Russian activities, and that their officers don’t have an official communications channel to contact the Russians if a situation develops.
They also will have to deal with being lit up by missile batteries.
They don’t know what has a lock on them, but they know that even being targeted even by S-200s is a bad thing, now that Syria has gotten serious about professionalizing and upgrading its missile brigades.
This means that you won’t see pilots making any rash decisions, and their mission control will have to be much more conservative in what orders they issue to the crews.
The Russian response will have an effect on the Americans, even without a shootdown.
Hmmm,
Seems we have confirmation that the new policy had its intended effect
http://russia-insider.com/en/military/sounds-russian-warnings-have-grounded-some-types-us-aircraft-syria/ri20215