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Sheikh Imran N. Hosein: Islam, Russia and Crimea

10722 Views March 25, 2014 Blog, Watch List The Saker

Tagged
  • Crimea
  • Islamic Eschatology
  • Sheikh Imran N. Hosein

33 Comments

  1. Anonymous on March 25, 2014  ·  at 3:10 pm EST/EDT

    Thanks a lot, Saker.

    Ashamed to be listening to the wise man for the first time now. And not much EARLIER.

    I am not a Muslim, but I lived in Iran for 3 years and have come to love the people and their language.

    Their love for life and readiness to sacrifce it.

    Their poets…

    Wisdom of the best representatives of the people.

    And the Sheikh has the same wisdom.

    God bless him.

    Thanks once again for pushing me to know the man.

  2. Fool on the Hill on March 25, 2014  ·  at 3:15 pm EST/EDT

    The exegesis by Sheikh Hosein was utterly fascinating. The intellectual platform he utilizes in understanding the revelations of the Koran is based on the interconnectedness of the prophecies and pronouncements, which can be then viewed in tandem with the interconnectedness of historical events. As a result, it helped me understand the fall of Byzantium, the significance of Constantinople, and the hegemony of Judeao-Christian proponents of the Messiah’s coming (whether first or second) in a way had not integrated before.

    The part I did not understand was the end-times prophecy of a nuclear war that would prevent “birds” and their derivatives (e.g., missiles) from flying. This would then lead to a land (e.g., North African armies) and sea (I.e, the Russian Crimean fleet) take over of Constantinople. How, with the coming nuclear holocaust the Sheikh sees as imminent, does he also believe that there will be armies and fleets in tact?

  3. Anonymous on March 25, 2014  ·  at 3:27 pm EST/EDT

    Sorry, Saker.

    I omitted my name under comment #1.

    shed

  4. MS in Kiev on March 25, 2014  ·  at 3:34 pm EST/EDT

    You might of heard about this already.

    Notorious Ukrainian right-wing militant leader Aleksandr Muzychko, also known as Sashko Bilyi, has been shot dead during a police raid against his gang, confirmed Ukraine’s Ministry of Interior.

    Muzychko was killed in Rovno, western Ukraine, where he coordinated actions of local groups belonging to the nationalist Right Sector movement.

    http://rt.com/news/sashko-bily-dead-reports-013/

    http://rt.com/news/muzychko-avakov-revenge-ukraine-109/

  5. Anonymous on March 25, 2014  ·  at 4:43 pm EST/EDT

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26729273

  6. Anonymous on March 25, 2014  ·  at 5:32 pm EST/EDT

    First, thanks for the video, Saker!

    Then, I have my doubts over taking religious mythologies as foundation to predict the future.
    There might be several coincidents between the course of history and what was predicted by someone, sometime, I give the Sheikh that, but for my understanding the future is open and unpredictable. Maybe you can foresee events in short time distance or even a hundred or two hundred years (in some geostratetic think tanks) but in hanging on to traditional prophecies and take them for granted they become dogmas. And we all know, such a thing isn’t really good. By living with them in your heart men seperates themselves from the present.

    So for my belief there is no such thing as a self fulfilling prophecy, and when there is, it was a very good guess.

    Last, everyone should believe what he wants and get lucky with it (in the old tradition of prussians libertines).

    Dwarvking

  7. Anonymous on March 25, 2014  ·  at 6:32 pm EST/EDT

    i know you’ve said you only respond to comments which inspire you…but what you think of this?

    http://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-why-china-sitting-fence-232691

  8. Anonymous on March 25, 2014  ·  at 8:15 pm EST/EDT

    I do still believe that between us as a humanity we have somebody who will resolve this situation peacefully with the grace and elegance.

    He will come as an beautiful butterfly and will have a speach for everyone around the world just to ask us if we would like to go in this hatred forward till end.
    Primitive hatred that you are Christian, you are Jew, you are Muslim, you are Jehowah witness and so on, do we want this perspective for the future?

    Do we need more of this primitive style of fear,atrocities and tyrany?
    I have a feeling that the humanity is waking up daily in a huge numbers and they have enough of this mess around the world. They see through the lies of our politicians, pastors,preachers and so on they are just pretending their fate and sending people to kill each other because somebody say so.

    I know it sounds like a fiction, but at the same time I can see every day some small changes and it is very encouraging.
    Let’s hope that the history of the time when Andalusia was flourishing because of the peaceful and respectful cooperation between the religions will return to this earth after this scary part of our history when we are right now.

    Believe in peace and love it is much stronger then anything else.

  9. Anonymous on March 25, 2014  ·  at 9:37 pm EST/EDT

    “Notorious Ukrainian right-wing militant leader Aleksandr Muzychko, also known as Sashko Bilyi, has been shot dead during a police raid against his gang, confirmed Ukraine’s Ministry of Interior.”

    It sound like the execution of Ernst Julius Günther Röhm in Night of the Long Knives in Nazi Germany.

    Ukraine is rapidly descending to a dictatorship anarchy where the dogs are eating dogs and killings are normal.

    Vitoria Nulland and USA have to be responsible for all this chaos

  10. Mulga Mumblebrain on March 25, 2014  ·  at 10:04 pm EST/EDT

    The murder of Sashko Bilyi will probably be the Yanks cleaning up the more dangerous fascists and Nazis after they served their purpose. As for the Western response, it is, as far as I can see, growing ever more hysterical and reckless. The lying is becoming quite unhinged, and the falsification of history quite Orwellian. The re-writing of the facts over Georgia and that psychopath (the Yanks really prefer dealing with fellow psychotics)Saakashvili in 2008 is positively ludicrous, but I believe ‘Saakarse’ is an Imperial favourite, with a febrile disinformation machine. The local MSM liars, some quite advanced in years and mental deterioration, and often with no previous form in pontificating on geo-politics, are being wheeled out to spout the lies that it was Putin who attacked Georgia, and South Ossetia and Abkhazia only came into existence after his brutal attack on poor defenceless, peace-loving Georgia, a doughty outpost of Western Civilization and ‘Our moral values’. For the audience with a few remaining functioning neurons, the version becomes ‘Putin provoked poor, dear, Saakarse’ in a fiendish trap, blah, blah, blah.
    It really seems like the Bosses are going for broke. Every presstitute and mucilaginous, lying hack is being ordered to spew Putin hatred, and it shows no sign of slackening. The MH370 horror seems very suspicious too, plainly aimed at China, very likely a diabolically cruel and perversely clever outrage to sow hatred between China and one of its closest friends, Malaysia, where a ‘regime change’ operation to install a US stooge, Anwar Ibrahim, was headed off last year. Cambodia, another friend of China, is under siege, too, the loathsome ‘Dalai’, who sits back and does nothing as young and stupid dupes are induced to self-immolate by burning (one word from this loathsome CIA asset would stop the hideous waste and suffering, but he keeps his grinning face shut)scuttles from one Western capital to another and it looks awfully like Syria will be made to pay for Crimea. And the fascist thug installed in Egypt, in the ‘regime modernisation’ operation labeled the ‘Arab Spring’ has just had over 500 sentenced to death. Strangely enough, al-Sisi, like ‘Yats’ and the deranged Yulia Timoshenko, just happens, by some miracle of Divine Providence to be Jewish, his mother being a Moroccan Jew, and his uncle a notable Zionist. It probably explains why one Israeli Cabinet Minister labeled al-Sisi a ‘hero’ to the Israelis, and why the siege on Gaza has been ratcheted up since his bloody ascent. Funny, ain’t it? al-Sisi-thousands killed, is a hero. Putin, one or two dead, is a monster. Says it all, does it not?

  11. Mulga Mumblebrain on March 25, 2014  ·  at 10:05 pm EST/EDT

    The murder of Sashko Bilyi will probably be the Yanks cleaning up the more dangerous fascists and Nazis after they served their purpose. As for the Western response, it is, as far as I can see, growing ever more hysterical and reckless. The lying is becoming quite unhinged, and the falsification of history quite Orwellian. The re-writing of the facts over Georgia and that psychopath (the Yanks really prefer dealing with fellow psychotics)Saakashvili in 2008 is positively ludicrous, but I believe ‘Saakarse’ is an Imperial favourite, with a febrile disinformation machine. The local MSM liars, some quite advanced in years and mental deterioration, and often with no previous form in pontificating on geo-politics, are being wheeled out to spout the lies that it was Putin who attacked Georgia, and South Ossetia and Abkhazia only came into existence after his brutal attack on poor defenceless, peace-loving Georgia, a doughty outpost of Western Civilization and ‘Our moral values’. For the audience with a few remaining functioning neurons, the version becomes ‘Putin provoked poor, dear, Saakarse’ in a fiendish trap, blah, blah, blah.
    It really seems like the Bosses are going for broke. Every presstitute and mucilaginous, lying hack is being ordered to spew Putin hatred, and it shows no sign of slackening. The MH370 horror seems very suspicious too, plainly aimed at China, very likely a diabolically cruel and perversely clever outrage to sow hatred between China and one of its closest friends, Malaysia, where a ‘regime change’ operation to install a US stooge, Anwar Ibrahim, was headed off last year. Cambodia, another friend of China, is under siege, too, the loathsome ‘Dalai’, who sits back and does nothing as young and stupid dupes are induced to self-immolate by burning (one word from this loathsome CIA asset would stop the hideous waste and suffering, but he keeps his grinning face shut)scuttles from one Western capital to another and it looks awfully like Syria will be made to pay for Crimea. And the fascist thug installed in Egypt, in the ‘regime modernisation’ operation labeled the ‘Arab Spring’ has just had over 500 sentenced to death. Strangely enough, al-Sisi, like ‘Yats’ and the deranged Yulia Timoshenko, just happens, by some miracle of Divine Providence to be Jewish, his mother being a Moroccan Jew, and his uncle a notable Zionist. It probably explains why one Israeli Cabinet Minister labeled al-Sisi a ‘hero’ to the Israelis, and why the siege on Gaza has been ratcheted up since his bloody ascent. Funny, ain’t it? al-Sisi-thousands killed, is a hero. Putin, one or two dead, is a monster. Says it all, does it not?

  12. Mulga Mumblebrain on March 25, 2014  ·  at 10:07 pm EST/EDT

    The murder of Sashko Bilyi will probably be the Yanks cleaning up the more dangerous fascists and Nazis after they served their purpose. As for the Western response, it is, as far as I can see, growing ever more hysterical and reckless. The lying is becoming quite unhinged, and the falsification of history quite Orwellian. The re-writing of the facts over Georgia and that psychopath (the Yanks really prefer dealing with fellow psychotics)Saakashvili in 2008 is positively ludicrous, but I believe ‘Saakarse’ is an Imperial favourite, with a febrile disinformation machine. The local MSM liars, some quite advanced in years and mental deterioration, and often with no previous form in pontificating on geo-politics, are being wheeled out to spout the lies that it was Putin who attacked Georgia, and South Ossetia and Abkhazia only came into existence after his brutal attack on poor defenceless, peace-loving Georgia, a doughty outpost of Western Civilization and ‘Our moral values’. For the audience with a few remaining functioning neurons, the version becomes ‘Putin provoked poor, dear, Saakarse’ in a fiendish trap, blah, blah, blah.
    It really seems like the Bosses are going for broke. Every presstitute and mucilaginous, lying hack is being ordered to spew Putin hatred, and it shows no sign of slackening. The MH370 horror seems very suspicious too, plainly aimed at China, very likely a diabolically cruel and perversely clever outrage to sow hatred between China and one of its closest friends, Malaysia, where a ‘regime change’ operation to install a US stooge, Anwar Ibrahim, was headed off last year. Cambodia, another friend of China, is under siege, too, the loathsome ‘Dalai’, who sits back and does nothing as young and stupid dupes are induced to self-immolate by burning (one word from this loathsome CIA asset would stop the hideous waste and suffering, but he keeps his grinning face shut)scuttles from one Western capital to another and it looks awfully like Syria will be made to pay for Crimea. And the fascist thug installed in Egypt, in the ‘regime modernisation’ operation labeled the ‘Arab Spring’ has just had over 500 sentenced to death. Strangely enough, al-Sisi, like ‘Yats’ and the deranged Yulia Timoshenko, just happens, by some miracle of Divine Providence to be Jewish, his mother being a Moroccan Jew, and his uncle a notable Zionist. It probably explains why one Israeli Cabinet Minister labeled al-Sisi a ‘hero’ to the Israelis, and why the siege on Gaza has been ratcheted up since his bloody ascent. Funny, ain’t it? al-Sisi-thousands killed, is a hero. Putin, one or two dead, is a monster. Says it all, does it not?

  13. Anonymous on March 25, 2014  ·  at 10:47 pm EST/EDT

    I watched many lectures of Imran Hossein. This one gave me the impression that it was the best. It was very sober on the religious side, but rich and luminous in historical and geo-political developments.
    That was also a real joy to hear the confirmation, from another perpective, that the Judeo-Christian alliance suffered its first major defeat in 100 years. The importance of this event had already been emphasized by the host of this blog in a previous commentary on Putin’s Duma speech that I found so ominous that I printed both into a small booklet that I have now on my bookshelf.
    Those two converging interpretations seem to materialize the alliance between Islam and Rum. The only problem I have is how to reconcile the futility of a provisional “victory for every free person” with the ineluctability of Malhama.
    alizard

  14. VINEYARDSAKER: on March 25, 2014  ·  at 10:59 pm EST/EDT

    @alizard: The only problem I have is how to reconcile the futility of a provisional “victory for every free person” with the ineluctability of Malhama.

    May I suggest the following resolution of this dilemma: if we know that Malhama will bring about the eventual victory of God over the Dajjaal, then for each faithful the victory is to participate in the battle and either obtain a righteous death or participate in the victory, no? After all, when *exactly* do we obtain our personal victory if not at the very moment we decide to stand for that is right regardless of the outcome of our stance (likewise, we are defeated at the very moment we decide to surrender or not to struggle). Thus the obtention of freedom and victory happens inside our soul at the moment of decision, not later.

    Does that seem reasonable to you?

    Cheers,

    The Saker

  15. Mario Medjeral on March 26, 2014  ·  at 2:24 am EST/EDT

    Greetings from Singapore:
    Der Spiegel quoting a study which was instructed/paid by Kiev. Here the surprising conclusion:

    QTE
    Dass die Regierung in Kiew, ein Konglomerat aus pragmatischen Dilettanten, dubiosen Oligarchen und hemmungslosen Ultranationalisten, die Ukraine nicht stabilisieren kann. Und dass sie damit unweigerlich zum Scheitern verurteilt ist.
    UNQTE

  16. Anonymous on March 26, 2014  ·  at 2:58 am EST/EDT

    Here is another interesting video from last summer, featuring Sheik Imran Hosein at the Moscow State University. Alexandr Dugin is also participating, a man who has Putin’s ear from what I understand.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf0q2N04OC0

  17. Anonymous on March 26, 2014  ·  at 3:31 am EST/EDT

    Here is another interesting video with Sheik Imran Hosein. This one from Moscow State University last summer. The video also feature Alexandr Dugin the Russian political scientist, who has Putin’s ear from what I understand;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf0q2N04OC0

  18. siljan on March 26, 2014  ·  at 3:34 am EST/EDT

    Here is another interesting video with Sheik Imran Hosein, also featuring Alexandr Dugin, the Russian political scientist who also has Putin’s ear from what I understand;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf0q2N04OC0

  19. Anonymous on March 26, 2014  ·  at 5:18 am EST/EDT

    God so love the world …. (that he send his son or send this and that prophet).

    Well just God love the world is enough, the rest is just to get believers.

    This manipulation (creating religions) runs deep and not necessarily malicious, some felt it necessary for various reasons including the ethnics was not sufficient to guide human behaviour.

    So by study, “they” have found the necessarily attributes needed for widespread acceptance of a religious myth and the template has been used ever since.

    http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/

    http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-christ-like-figures-who-pre-date-jesus/

  20. Shelia Cassidy on March 26, 2014  ·  at 8:51 am EST/EDT

    Salaam Saker:

    I am a Muslim; this is not the first time I have heard the Sheik speak, but this is a fantastic segment. From what I understand of the Qur’an, and I read it every day, this is pretty well in line with what the Qur’an teaches. I always wondered about the specifics of the Rum Surah, but now I believe this is a possible interpretation. We are taught that many of the prophesies in the Qur’an are dual, much like those in the Bible. A few questions that were answered here is the status of the Ottoman Empire and the present Jihadis in Syria and those who destroyed Libya on be half of the West. When the Jihadis in Libya started to massacre the African people among them after the end of the so-called “revolt” that in itself was not an Islamic act, but an anti-Islamic act. The Prophet Muhammad (PBH) forgave Mecca after he had conquered it and did not take a life there. It is his Sunnah that we are to follow. So the acts of the Jihadis in Syria, Libya, and elsewhere are not in line with this. Nor would be the Saudi Wahhabi vision of Islam, either. Islam was to be a middle way, easy on those who follow it. That has no room for extremism. And Allah (SWT) knows best.

  21. Anonymous on March 26, 2014  ·  at 9:17 am EST/EDT

    @Saker,
    Thanks for your response.
    I felt an almost imperceptible ‘granum salis’ in your concluding question.
    We are here addressing maybe not ‘unreasonable’ concepts but surely ‘supra-reasonable’, like God, Dajjal, Malhama. Therefore the limits of the “reasonable” are defined by the narrow boundaries of the poor representations that our reason can afford to create.
    I remain somehow “on my hunger”, as the French would say, as Malhama, or doom for everyone, righteous or unrighteous, still seems to me denying the concept of divine justice.
    alizard

  22. Anonymous on March 26, 2014  ·  at 12:40 pm EST/EDT

    I listened to the lecture provided by the Sheikh Imran N. Hosein: Islam, Russia and Crimea. His views are fascinating and provide an excellent platform to put everything together.
    At the same time I read an article from M K Bhadrakumar that pour water over the flames of expectations. In a recent article entitled US, Russia to deescalate Ukraine, (http://www.atimes.com/) Bhadrakumar writes that Lavrov held his first meeting with the Ukraine Foreign Minister Andriy Deshchytsia.
    “Clearly, Moscow has been piping down and the noisy phase of grandstanding and “macho diplomacy” seems to be getting over as realization dawns, finally, that the “smart sanctions” chosen by President Obama can bite.
    Bhadrakumar also refers to Ben Rhodes who held out an exit route for Moscow and who brushed aside the possibility that Russia may play the role of a spoiler in Syria or Iran. At the end, he concluded that what has strengthened Obama’s hands immeasurably would be the Chinese stance.
    I am not comfortable with this article but I am seeking after the truth, whatever it is. I like Russia but I am not very pleased with the way it has dealt with its “friends” in the past, notably Libya and Iran. Is Russia preparing to back off again, making one step forward and one step back, and bow to USA the Master?

  23. VINEYARDSAKER: on March 26, 2014  ·  at 2:21 pm EST/EDT

    @alizard:Malhama, or doom for everyone, righteous or unrighteous, still seems to me denying the concept of divine justice.

    How so? Let me ask you this: when God allows one of his faithful become a martyr – does he deny that faithful His divine justice?

    The Saker

  24. Anonymous on March 26, 2014  ·  at 5:34 pm EST/EDT

    @Saker,
    I sometimes wonder whether you are a military analyst or a redoubtable military theologian, if that category exists.
    There is no denial of divine justice in your proposition, because you used the words “God allows”. This implies to me that the faithful has freely chosen to fight in the way of God. But in the context of Malhama, doom for everyone, the first term of your proposition becomes “God compels”. Therefore if God forces all to the same fate, righteous or unrighteous, the concept of ‘just retribution’ so dear to the Kor’an, is being evaded.
    We fall then into the case of the Creator indiscriminately destroying his creation. It is here that I fail to see divine justice.
    alizard

  25. VINEYARDSAKER: on March 26, 2014  ·  at 7:05 pm EST/EDT

    @alizard:There is no denial of divine justice in your proposition, because you used the words “God allows”. This implies to me that the faithful has freely chosen to fight in the way of God. But in the context of Malhama, doom for everyone, the first term of your proposition becomes “God compels”. Therefore if God forces all to the same fate, righteous or unrighteous,

    Then let me clarify: God never compels. What He does is create situation in which we are compelled to chose, but not compelled to make a specific choice. God allows us to make choices in situation which He compels us to face. Not being Muslim I cannot discuss the notion of “Malhama”, but my admittedly limited understanding is that it refers to a “great battle”, possibly the last one. Ok, then let me ask you this: what would you deem most just – mankind ending in, say, a cataclysm triggered by a comet hitting earth or in a final great battle? I submit that in the first case the opportunity of meaningful choices is limited, whereas in the 2nd case we all would have the most precious freedom to make a fundamental, defining, choice: to side with good or with evil, to serve in the armies of the Dajjaal or the armies of Christ (Which 2nd Coming and battle against the Dajjaal-Antichrist, as far as I recall, the Quran – or Sunna – specifically predicts). Is to be given such a choice not a sign of God’s mercy? Is that not the ultimate proof that God does *not* force the same fate on anybody?

    the Creator indiscriminately destroying his creation

    Well, I could take the easy cop out and say that that what He has created God can destroy – what God gives, He takes back – and all justice in that belongs only to Him. However, you are missing the key point: God’s *purpose* in creating Creation. Unless you assume that the act of creation was also in itself its purpose (which is absurd) or that the purpose of creation was to make Creation eternal (also absurd), then there has to be a higher real purpose behind creation. I submit that the prime motive for a loving God and a God who *IS* love, it to love. So far so good? Ok. then, loving yourself is not real love, no matter how you package it, love implies a subject and an object. However, the highest form of love is mutual love, thus the object becomes subject and returns the love received. Good so far? Then, if we make the reasonable assumption that the motive and purpose of creation was love, then we can also conclude that it was mutual love, between God and his Creature. We also know that Man has been made in the image and likeness of God. What does that mean? Image refers to the potential, whereas likeness refers to resemblance. Thus, all men have the potential to be God-like, holy, but they are also all given the freedom to chose (again, God does not impose anything on us, we are not robots). Therefore, every human being has the right to reject God’s love. That is the reason while for some life will end up with a full re-union with God in eternal mutual love (“heaven”) while for others it will turn into an eternal life of impotent rage against God (as after death His reality will become obvious to all) combined with an inability to enjoy His love (“hell”). Once you see this you can see that the end of mankind, whether in a big battle or not, is really not at all a failure of Divine Justice, but the only possible manner by which we can freely exercise our right to chose our “afterlife” – the latter being, of course, eternal (hence the words of the Prophet Ezekiel:For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!>

    Does that make better sense now?

    Cheers,

    The Saker

  26. VINEYARDSAKER: on March 26, 2014  ·  at 7:36 pm EST/EDT

    @alizard:I sometimes wonder whether you are a military analyst or a redoubtable military theologian

    I am just a student of warfare – spiritual and physical :-)

    The Saker

  27. LXV on March 26, 2014  ·  at 10:16 pm EST/EDT

    Thank you for posting the Sheikh’s video, Saker.

    I have been following Sheikh Imran Hossein’s speeches through his YT channel for a couple of years. He is a very wise man, one of the few if not the only one of muslim scholars, who understands Islamic eschatology.

    As I understand his interpratation of the prophecies in The Qur’an (from previous lessons I’ve heard), Al-Malhama will not come to be until Damascus is turned into a rubble of “melted glass” and The Temple of Solomon is rebuilt in Jerusalem. That, among the rest, will be the prime cause for the great alliance of righteous Muslims and Christians that will lead to Armageddon.

    LXV

  28. Anonymous on March 27, 2014  ·  at 1:48 am EST/EDT

    Sadly, the wahhabis have started to discredit this man because of his tolerant stance toward Shia muslims.

    Also, you might be interested in knowing the place where according to Mohammed’s prophecy Jesus will kill the (pseudo-Jewish) Dajjal is currently an city in Israel.

  29. Anonymous on March 27, 2014  ·  at 4:35 pm EST/EDT

    @Saker,
    Thanks for your elaborate response. However, I’m afraid that by increasing your fire power and opening new fronts you have escalated the conflict of ideas.
    I love your “reasonable assumptions” on the impenetrable ways of the Lord, but even if man had been created in God’s image, this wouldn’t be a sufficient condition, in my opinion, to validate an anthropocentric interpretation of the creation and its motives. If we say that God needs his creation to fulfil himself, aren’t we already blaspheming by setting limits to His ‘Greatestness’? Also to me an image does not refer to a potential, but rather to a reduction of potential, the amputation of an essential dimension, precisely here the divine dimension of his creator.
    The concept of free will is needed for the condemnation of sin, but does the concept of sin not prove also that the will is not free? Did not Jesus, by saying that no man is without sin, imply that He knew that man does not have the freedom to always choose to follow the right path? Man’s character sets the operational parameters of his will. Those will dictate what he thinks he ‘freely wants’. But in fact, man is ‘willed’ when he thinks he wants.
    You say: “God never compels. What He does is create situation in which we are compelled to chose,” If you don’t see the contradiction inherent to that proposition, I personally see in it the very argument professing the negation of man’s free will: compulsion and freedom are antithetical terms. If man is compelled to do anything, making a choice in this case, his freedom is ipso facto abolished. The faculty to choose does not prove that man has a free will. On the contrary, it demonstrates that he is not free, but the perpetual victim of some dilemma forced upon him. Man lost his freedom when he acquired his mortal coil, and this was not a free acquisition, but one also forced upon him.
    This reminds me of the epitaph on Kazantzakis’s tombstone that I discovered during a trip to Creta, many years ago, and yet never left my mind: Δεν ελπίζω τίποτα, Δε φοβούμαι τίποτα, Είμαι λέφτερος.
    I think after this last salvo I will now cease all hostilities for fear of incurring more territorial losses under your long range heavy artillery.
    Best
    alizard

  30. VINEYARDSAKER: on March 27, 2014  ·  at 5:52 pm EST/EDT

    @alizard: no “artillery” today – just a few basic points, if I may:

    even if man had been created in God’s image, this wouldn’t be a sufficient condition, in my opinion, to validate an anthropocentric interpretation of the creation and its motives

    Absolutely correct. This is why when discussing God’s actions we do not reply on speculation but on *revelation*. Once the revelation is granted, it is appropriate to try to understand it, but only in the context of personal spiritual askesis (“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God“).

    If we say that God needs his creation to fulfil himself

    Strawman alert! Nobody ever said that :-)

    does the concept of sin not prove also that the will is not free

    Of course not! This is why Mary, the Mother of God, which was born as a *regular* human (and not a super-human born of “Immaculate Conception” as the Latins invented) could achieve “all-holiness” and give birth to Christ. Sin is just a possibility of our fallen nature, but not an inevitability. In fact, the purpose of life is theosis (I *VERY HIGHLY* recommend you read this short and free ebook: http://orthodoxinfo.com/general/theosis.aspx).

    If man is compelled to do anything, making a choice in this case, his freedom is ipso facto abolished. The faculty to choose does not prove that man has a free will

    By that logic man has no free will by the very fact of his existence, since he did not get to chose whether to exist or not, but, of course, in order to make that choice, he would have to exist in the first place, therefore, etc. etc. etc. Also, consider this: in order to make a choice – any choice – one needs to be given the parameters to make this choice. By your logic, this would not be a choice, since one first would have to be given a choice of parameters, but that, of course, would imply that 1) one would first have to be give the choice to chose parameters and then the choice of which parameters to chose from and only then the choice between the parameters, but since that choice would have been made in the precious step, the last step would be redundant and thus impossible. Thus your argument basically means that choice cannot exist to begin and that makes your entire argument a fallacy. (Sorry!).

    Δεν ελπίζω τίποτα, Δε φοβούμαι τίποτα, Είμαι λέφτερος.

    Well, at this point he primarily *dead*. Besides, “free” is such an empty argument. Think about it, what if the epitaph said “I know nothing, I believe nothing, I am free”. Would that be less inspiring?

    Cheers,

    The Saker

  31. Anonymous on March 27, 2014  ·  at 6:37 pm EST/EDT

    @Saker

    “Strawman alert! Nobody ever said that”

    Just a last short comment on this, if you don’t mind:

    When you said “the highest form of love is mutual love”, this was implying that God would not settle for any lower form, therefore “the need” for His creation, the second actor of the “mutual love”.
    Best
    alizard

  32. VINEYARDSAKER: on March 27, 2014  ·  at 7:16 pm EST/EDT

    @alizard:When you said “the highest form of love is mutual love”, this was implying that God would not settle for any lower form, therefore “the need” for His creation, the second actor of the “mutual love”

    Nope :-) God IS absolute love and that means that His love is absolute, lower forms of love are a human imperfection which He (synergistically) helps us to supersede. But that is in no way an sign of His “needs”.

    Cheers and kind regards,

    The Saker

  33. Queen of Sheba on March 31, 2014  ·  at 5:26 am EST/EDT

    Thank you for showing this most enlightening of videos.
    And the icing on the cake was alizard and your responses to him/ her.
    :-)
    Keep it coming!

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