First, Alexander Borodai has made an important press conference. I hope to have the subtitled video available soon.
Second, the main story is not MH17 but the murderous attack of the Nazis on Lugansk which, contrary to BBC claims, has not been taken. However, scores of civilians have been killed in repeated volleys of MLRS rocket strikes by the Nazi forces.
Third, the Nazis in Israel are also using the MH17 as a cover/distraction to kill Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.
Fourth, I am, yet again, sick with the flu (yes, I know, again…) which one of my kids brought back home, so I will leave you today with an open thread.
2 Questions for all:
1) can somebody confirm to me that red-tipped Buk missiles are dummies used for training and not missiles equipped with a warhead?
2) is is true that the Resistance forces only seized red-tipped missiles?
Thanks and kind regards to all,
The Saker
Saker Message:
A whole lot of really just weird things are starting to pop up. One is the claim that all the passports shown after the crash are of people who were all registered on Facebook in April 2013.
Another is this video of Motorola’s now-wife claiming in a video ***on June 18*** that Kiev was shadowing civilian airliners with military planes to provoke the NAF to shoot down a civilian airliner.
Russia bars entry to 12 Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib-linked Americans
http://rt.com/news/174064-russia-bans-american-guantanamo/
VERY INTELLIGENT MOVE!
Hats off to Lavrob and Putin.
Let the world know, write down and remember forever the names of these oh so self-righteous individuals, oh so american-exceptionalists, oh so democrats (ahhahahaaa), oh so occupiers of the higher moral ground, oh who even dare consider themselves “christians”…… while they were doing what they were doing, despicable and evil as it is.
.
http://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2014/07/19/having-said-below-that-i-now-think-kiev-shot-the-boeing-down-with-a-buk-i-just-add-this-for-fun/
Look at the photo SAKER and I think it must be the other way around, as white are inert and RED are live?
As I could not see them allowing live ordnance at trade shows ?
Lugansk 7-18-14
Lugansk 18-07-14
Not for Children.
Before you run the videos which are first, scroll down the photos. Then go to the videos.
This is what it is to live and die on the streets of a city in Novorossiya that is being ethnically cleansed by Grad, aerial bombs and artillery.
Are these lives worth less than those on MH-17?
Apparently, these are worthless to most of the world.
“… Sati
you are a crazy chick
as one is used to say up here
and a wise one too
your blog
http://zwillingssonne.blogspot.de/ (Twin Sun)
for me is one of the most important blogs
in german language
as like as the Vineyard of the Saker beeing for me the most important russian blog in american language …”
Saker keep sound health in these apokalyptic times, all the best to You
Mundanomaniac
http://astromundanediary.blogspot.de/2014/07/letter-to-sane-sister.html
The whole Strelkov/dead bodies thing (via Gleb Bazov):
Igor Strelkov: According to the information received from the people who collected the corpses, a large number of the corpses are “not fresh” – these are people who died a few days ago. I cannot vouch for complete accuracy of this information – of course, we will have to wait for conclusions from forensic specialists.
– “Somebody of course must have been piloting this plane, which, to boot, would be impossible to leave. The theory that the plane was full of dead people is, of course, breathtaking; however, it does not seem to make sense.”
Igor Strelkov: First of all, not all the people in the plane were dead prior to the fall.
Second, a large quantity of medication, including blood serum and so forth, was found in the airplane, which is not characteristic of a regular airliner. It looks like there was some kind of special medical cargo on board.
Third, I do not insist on anything (for now). It’s just that only moments ago I spoke with two individuals who personally gathered the corpses after the crash (both of them are from Shakhtersk and arrived at the scene less than half an hour after the catastrophe). I am writing exactly what they told me. They emphasized that a large number of the corpses were “completely bloodless” – it’s as if their blood clotted long before the catastrophe. They also remarked that there was an overwhelming putrid corpse stench, which was also noted by many locals – a smell like that could not have formed in half an hour in any weather, let alone in the cloudy, temperate weather we had yesterday.
Fourth, while I am usually very suspicious of any “conspiracy theories” myself, but the 18 of our fighters that were poisoned with chemical weapons at their positions in Semyonovka, the executions of the militiamen’s family members and all other “small joys of Ukie patriots” have convinced me that the Ukrainian government is capable of any villainy.
The pilots were, of course, perfectly alive – the entire cabin (and the front part is well preserved) was literally bathed in their blood.
Curiouser and curiouser.
Here is a very plausible scenario as to what may have happened.The Ukrainian air-force have been using civilian aircraft as human shields.
Here is the evidence.
this video was uploaded in June.
0:53 They say that there are mercenaries here, Chechens and so on. The people fighting are from here – Sloviansk, that came out in defence of their own city. They want to just live, not merely exist. 1:07 Terrible things are happening. 1:09 For example an incident that happened recently. Passanger plane was flying by. 1:16 And Ukrainian attack aircraft hid behind it. 1:22 Than he lowered his altitude a bit and droped bombs on residential sector of Semenovka town. 1:27 Than he regained the altitude and hid behind the passanger plane again. Than he left. 1:31 They wanted to provoke the militia to shoot at the passenger plane. There would be a global catastrophe. Civilians would have died. 1:49 Than they would say that terrorists here did it. There are no terrorists here. There are regular people here, 1:55 that came out in defence of their own city. 2:00 They can’t bear this anymore. How long is this going to go on. 2:05 There are children here, elderly people, WW2 veterans that have to live through it again. 2:12 Don’t you have any humanity left in you?
just an educated guesswork, but given the intense activity and paranoïa of the Kiev Junta, thinking that they were going to get invaded by Russia, the chances is that every active missile launcher would have been deployed. (27 are being mentioned). Thus leaving behind those training versions.
My question would it be useful to keep live missiles in the same place as training ones? Apparently missile loading requires a special crane truck. Has one of these been left behind in Donbass?
In regards to the video floating around alleged to show a BUK battery “smuggled” back over the Russian border, SouthFront posted about this a couple of hours ago;
“In Ukrainian publics distributed video where militias allegedly trafficked to the RF side BUK, which was shot he Malaysia plane. But on the video Krasnoarmeysk city, visible billboard with advertising car dealership on Dnipropetrovsk st, 34. May 11, and city is still under the control of the junta troops conducting “ATO”. Questions?”
Flu sucks :-) Hope you get better quick. Being sick and getting all this horrible news all the time is no fun I bet.
Really hope that someone can really blow the lid on the MA17 downing and put the blame where it should be (Kiev).
Norwegian Bob
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07/19/the-mh17-shoot-down-over-ukraine/
The key question for the future is how long Putin can hold on.
Dear Saker, Your health and continuing ability to deconstruct the news coming out of Ukraine and elsewhere is very important. May I assist? I chair the scientific advisory boards of a number of conpanies in the food, drug and nutritional sector and would very willingly offer you natural tools which will greatly reduce your risk of infection.
Okay, this is a really dumb question but what happens to the rest of the missile, or Buk, or whatever, after it hits its target? Wouldn’t there be some kind of other remains? A missile was Mr. Nora’s very first thought, but I’m also wondering about some kind of explosive inside the plane itself. Wouldn’t that, too, leave some kind of specialized part(s) behind?
On the red/white tipped missiles.
See the photo in this this Voice of Russia article from 29 June 2014.
I too thought the missile tip-colour issue important but in light of this article, I no longer think it is.
Whilst I’m no expert on this weaponry, all things considered it appears that the militia would require considerable training to become competent in its use. That or the secondment of Russian help which is what Kiev and the Usaians are pressing – they could just be right too. The thing is that the ‘Cui-bono’ calculus makes it blindingly obvious that the very last thing both the militia and Russia need is to be credibly saddled with responsibility for shooting down a civilian airliner; so where does that take us?
The more I think about this, the more diabolically clever the whole scenario appears to be – and of course this IS war. The possibility of the militia having been shepherded and duped into a firing, with Ukie fighter escorts or their own Buks available and able to finish the job just in case, is therefore high on my current list of possibilities.
All that said, digging for the precise timeline and detail of who knew/ordered/did what is probably so much wasted effort. Like so many false-flags before, the detail, however damning to the official narrative, becomes almost irrelevant once the narrative has served its initial purpose and solidified. When enough simple-minded career politicos, pundits and establishment groupies have acted on it, they can be relied upon to go on defending it in the face on almost ANY evidence.
First of all the famous cauldron vanishes, then Lugansk nearly falls. Who would have thought the downing of an airliner could cause such a strategic shift on the ground!
Dearest Saker,
You seem to get a lot of virus’s. It’s worrisome, frankly. Could be due to a bunch of things. Being stressed and wearing oneself down doesn’t help. And children are little petri-dishes for all sorts of crud. Take lots of Vitamin C and Cod Liver Oil. Pineapple too. Clears the mucus. Be extra careful and vigilant. You are obviously on lots of radar screens. We all are. Take care of yourself and your family. Be well.
Get well soon!
It is ridiculous for Putin to ask the rebels to lay down their arms.
I hoped this plane tragedy will open his eyes and show him who he is up against: a ruthless, cruel and dangerous party, the US neocons, who will use any tricks to destroy him and Russia, their perceived obstacles to world hegemony.
The only way out for you Putin and Russia is through, you must militarily intervene in East Ukraine and destroy the Kiev Junta.
Nothing short of this will do.
Hi, Saker.
Concerning your question about red-tipped missiles. I have seen Buks several times on May 9th in Moscow – its rokets were white tipped. I think nobody will allow to parade with real warheads in the center of Moscow.
Maybe, its different for Ukraine. Regards
I believe that if and when the ‘international investigators’ arrive at the crash site, that will set off the next phase of the continuing false flag operation. No force exists that can secure the perimeter of the investigation. Saboteurs will infiltrate Donetsk from the crash area. And inevitably, another violent incident will be staged and blamed on Novorossia and Russia . . . that will be the pretext for ramping up foreign intervention on behalf of Kiev.
RF/NAF should be able to field enough partisans/moles/sleeper cells in strategic locations to make progress towards victory . . . the burden must be put back on Poroshenko and Kiev.
Novorossia needs international support from Cuba, Ecuador, Nicaragua and further . . .
Cure for the flu. Two liters of fine German Weissen and one large lemon. One packet of Theraflu.
Quarter the lemon after washing same. Take two lemon quarters and twist/squeeze the contents of same in to a one liter glass, then drop the hulls in to said glass. Pour one liter of Weissen in to glass. Drink contents rapidly.
Take packet of Theraflu and mix per instructions. Consume mix.
Take remaining two quarters of lemon, twist/squeeze contents in to same large glass after removing old hulls, preferably dumping old hulls on kitchen floor. Never hurts to annoy the lady of the house during this process as the reality is she will be annoyed of the process at any rate. Dump new hulls in same. Pour second liter of fine Weissen in to glass and consume rapidly.
After consumption of medicines you will not worry too much about the flu and you can reasonably perform your duties.
I will find out about the red tips. To be honest this old coot never thought of that, although said coot should have. I hate getting old.
Fwd from Canuckistan:
MSM spin is flyin’ in a somewhat willy-nilly and rather chaotic fashion up here. It would seem as if the ptb have lost total control of the narrative. So many irons are burnin’ red hot that their troll army cannot keep pace. They have gone into full damage control regarding Palestine and are reporting that World opinion is dramatically shifting quickly. They have alluded that Hamas has effectively and efficiently countered the propaganda and shown that the IDF have left a lot of munitions in the “tunnels” that have been reported as cleared. The media are pushing the “city under the city” angle really hard. It seems as if either the IDF is not in control or something else is in play. Surprisingly missing are reports from Iraq and Syria, etc. Perhaps another “entity” has been injected into the theatre to further destabilize the situation and add to the fog of war?
On the Ukie front, they are goin’ full stop and definitely stoking hate and spinning disinfo unlike ever before. If the EU does not act quickly to defang the NeoCons and de-escalate the rhetoric, they will ignite the entire continent ablaze. They seem to be almost “inviting” RF into the territory to secure the scene.
Not only that but the Harper Regime and Loyalists are in full domestic issue damage control and their sockpuppets are getting pulverized.
Worth noting that just as this is almost “sent” the number of those headed to the AIDS convention on board has dropped to less than 10 (ten) and late last night they reported that there were 80 to 100 children on board, which was repeated in the typical canned news loop until the am news cycle sripts arrive and goes live. To add more context, we get the same 20/30 minute cycle repeated exactly word for word and in the same order for 3 hours. Then a new “anchor” arrives with a slightly revised 20/30 minute script that sways the narrative as necessary to assure the “story” will be different enough to add to the fog of war. Eerily similar to the prelude to WW1. Wash, Rinse, Repeat…
Hello Saker
First, get well soon.
As for the question for the colour of the missile head, I have found this photo which depicts both missiles side by side.
Notice that the red-tipped missiles have a handle on the tip, while white ones do not. This can mean that the red cone is either a cover for the tip or the missile is a training one. A handle has no operational use whatsoever on live missiles.
Unfortunately, the angle of the photo is such where the writing on the missiles cannot be read
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/BUK_file2.jpg
At least, now the international public is getting a taste of the reality of the dirty war in Ukraine. Some more reality starting to leak through the propaganda. That’s been one advantage that the RF has had in all this, Kiev’s shit is so fucked up that a lot of has leaked through independently of government/media propaganda.
I posted my above comment assuming most would be familiar with the photos of red-tipped missiles in the Colonel Cassed article that first reported their capture by the militia. That together with the white tipped ones shown in the video purporting to show the militia trying to sneak then “Back across the border with one missing” per the Ukie story.
The pic in this article purports to show an operational Ukie Buks battery close to Donetsk and the missiles have white tips. All FWIW
The next false flag now goes atomic because there is no restraint. Russia does not want war thus it is thrust upon them. For all we know this plsne was a biowar attack. My own opinion is the masters of war are old and getting older and care less about the living and the future than their own agendas.
Poroshenko is willing to have peace negotiations but not with the people of he south east because they shot down the plane – logically that makes no sense whatsoever except in the context of renewed attacks upon the region.
Now it becomes much harder for investigators to do their work and so physical evidence will degrade.
So, Poroshenko is telling the world that they can not access the region, but the blame will be laid at the people in the Donbass.
The Ukrainians are certainly not making it easy to access the site.
And yes, the disconnect between the outrage at these deaths and the willing acceptance of the deaths in the south east of Ukraine does not go unmissed by these eyes.
When I came to this whole issue I was interested in understanding in as objective manner as I could what was happening in Ukraine. I had no dog in the fight as it were. While I was of the general opinion that the uprising was not the best way to proceed I understood that the reaction to it could only be seen from the perspective of a choice to either break up the country or to eliminate a portion of its citizens.
Now I can see no alternative or the people of the region other than to fight for their lives and homes (or become refugees).
This air crash was, I think, a means of changing the terms of the conflict and that purpose is being well served right now.
Norwegian Bob:
Here is more information about the various videos and photos floating around of the BUK system allegedly in Novorossiya.
I’ve been digging for more info on the BUK-M1 spotted in Snizhne allegedly on July 17.
The road it was on has been geolocated and location of taping in the now infamous Euromaidan video of a BUK-M1 being driven down a divided highway accompanied by a small vehicle.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wkgwxxhJlk4
Earlier versions of this YouTube video of this scene before EuroMaidan reposted it have been deleted by the user. Possible sanitization of evidence? The only video left is EuroMaidan’s.
This road is the T-05-22 (Yuriia Hahariia Street) heading south from Snizhne and the location is four intersections south of Lenin Street at Yepanchyna Street. The video is shot from an apartment block to the west of the road on the north side of Serhiia Kirova Street. The road comes to a gentle bend south of town and then the median strip with pine trees ends after going around the curve. Its clearly visible as the location in all the major mapping services like Google Maps, Google Earth, Apple Maps, etc.
Here is another site with a picture of the same road:
https://ssl.panoramio.com/photo/50150301?force_desktop_version
The directional information from Euromaidan is incorrect. The BUK in the video is travelling south towards Pobeda and Stepanovka, not west from Torez to Snizhne.
These links below got to the infamous picture of the BUK on a lowboy trailer with a white semi-truck. The BUK is under camo wrap on the missiles and it appears a Jeep is following it. This is clearly the same truck and trailer seen in other pictures of the BUK, including the ones where it is shown missing two missiles and also shown accompanied by what appears to be a KAMAZ with soldiers.
https://mobile.twitter.com/finriswolf/status/489828883194077184/photo/1
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/buk-system-russia.jpg
It is being alleged by the Ukraine Interior Ministry that this is behind the Furshet Grocery Store in Snizhne (which is on Lenin Street), but I cannot figure out the view perspective from online imaging so I don’t think that information is correct.
http://en.censor.net.ua/photo_news/294249/terrorists_movement_with_buk_systems_recorded_in_the_area_of_boeing_crash_today_photo
It is beyond crediblility and strains credulity that the NAF would transport the BUK and the missles would be under camo wrap early in the afternoon before the downing, but then the BUK would be transported openly without camo wrap to show off missing missiles afterwards. It makes more sense the the Ukrainian Army would transport BUK’s wrapped up before the downing and openly afterwards and then post videos alledging this is the NAF or Russia moving them around and exposing themselves as guilty.
The SBU is now claiming that three BUK systems were withdrawn to Russia the night of July 18.
http://en.censor.net.ua/news/294555/after_boeing_777_crashed_terrorists_transported_at_least_3_buk_missile_systems_from_ukraine_to_russia
This is somewhat contradictory to all the daytime photos and videos being published of BUK’s being moved about, and the assertion is that they drove the BUK’s to Severny in Luhansk Oblast instead of directly south to Marinovka strains credulity if they were trying to move them out of theater as quickly as possible and with as few poeple as possible knowing.
To the Saker: Please know that we, the readers of this blog, profoundly appreciate your work. That is said to encourage you, not to encourage you to do more. The stress of both the situation in Ukraine and the stress of hosting comments on this blog appear to be taking their toll. Guard your health.
To this community: Any recent news on the cauldron? Is it still holding? Is there news from Juan?
Courage to all those who pray for justice in these matters.
There is a real legitimacy issue arising from this crash.
The self defence militia have declared their state of Novorossiya. The plane came down on their territory. If they allow the Ukrainian authorities to take control of the site, they are acknowledging Ukrainian sovereignty.
They militia however lack the necessary infrastructure to handle the catastrophe.
Unfortunately as Russia has not recognised the state, they cannot accept an invitation to take control on their behalf.
I know sounds rather heartless, but possession of the site and the human remains could be a bargaining chip to gain wider international recognition. The drawback would be a very bad press and a invite accusations of a motive for shooting the plane down.
This is however Geopolitical hardball at the active tectonic boundary of the Atlantasist and Eurasian Powers.
“First traces of the warhead. This was not BUK-M1
Source: http://guruinterneta.livejournal.com/32590.html
Pin warhead! Missiles used to hit air targets use a special warhead, which is only characterisitc for them with very specific traces. It consists of a bundle of sharpened pins, which are sometimes welded together (sometimes not). An opening charge is installed behind this bundle, this is basically what the “pin and shrapnel” warhead consists of. When it approaches the target at the minimal distance the warhead explodes the opening charge and this bundle of pins flies to the target at almost cosmic speed. When hitting the target such pin – only by its kinetic energy – is capable to shoot through the plane destroying the internal structure of the aircraft and completely crashing the on-board equipment. The pin kinetics is so powerful that it can even split the titanium spar in halves. Such warhead has one big advantage – the missile does not need to be perfectly accurate – it explodes before contacting the target and the pins are shot in the direction of the airplane n a cone. Even if only 2-3% of these pins hit the target, the plane is doomed – a hole in the wing or fuselage, or simply damaged cladding of the plane flying at trans-sonic speed the enormous relative airflow will destroy the damaged wing up to the very spar in less than a minute. If there is a dozen of such holes – there is simply no chance for anything.
But this is not the main point. Pin and shrapnel warheads are mainly used on air-to-air missiles because of their compact size. The anti-aircraft defense systems prefer to use high explosive and shrapnel warheads, because in a number of cases they are more efficient than pin and shrapnel ones. The picture we have here shows cladding damage characteristic for pin and shrapnel warheads. High explosive and shrapnel warhead damage looks different. This means that no BUK system hit this aircraft. Here we are dealing with either R-27 Topor or R-73 missiles, which Ukrainians have plenty of and which are installed on MIG-29 and SU-27″
https://www.facebook.com/TruthfromUkraine/timeline
http://bobik-57.livejournal.com/1335504.html
http://beforeitsnews.com/war-and-conflict/2014/07/mh17-shootdown-shows-chaff-was-deployed-proving-fighter-jet-was-somehow-involved-2453122.html
Moments ago Ukraine released what may be just that missing “YouTube” link, when it unveiled a 2:23 minute video supposedly proving that “militants of “Bes” group shot down with a Russian anti-aircraft missile a Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 passenger jet heading from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.”
And yet, something here smells very fishy…
First, the Russian version of the clip which was released in parallel, and shown below, there is a major discrepancy in the time stamp, with the English-dubbed version showing the conversation between Major and Grek taking place at 5:11 pm and 5:32 pm, while the original one has it at 4:33 pm, 5:14 pm and 5:32 pm.
Then there is what gmorder has revealed is either a clearly erroneous creation timestamp, or the video was actually uploaded yesterday.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/ukraine-releases-youtube-clip-proving-rebels-shot-down-malaysian-flight-mh-17
“This could almost be a smoking gun of the false flag attack with respect to LH 17. Some five hours after the loss of LH 17, the Ukrainian Security Service published a recording of alleged pro-Russian military officers led by commander Bes, who is based in Gorlovka (Horlivka), allegedly confirming that they shot down the Malaysian Boeing 777. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwtxBA1m9x8 The video was uploaded about 5 hours after the time of the plane’s crash–20:16 PM local time.”
https://www.facebook.com/TruthfromUkraine/timeline
BUSTED! Ukraine Caught Trying to ‘Frame Russia’ for Shooting Down Malaysia Flight MH17!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28MrASx-RiM
https://slavyangrad.wordpress.com/2014/07/18/spanish-air-controller-kiev-borispol-airport-ukraine-military-shot-down-boeing-mh17/
See this: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-18/ukraines-security-service-has-confiscated-air-traffic-control-recordings-malaysian-j
Wonder way.
Russian saying (semi-racist) about Ukrainians:
1 Ukrainian – partisan
2 Ukrainian – partisan squad
3 Ukrainian – partisan squad, with traitor
Kinda sums the whole thing up in a way . . .
Dear The Saker,
Sorry to hear you are ill again. Please look after yourself and boost your immune system with natural organic remedies.
Rgds,
Veritas
@ Rob
Very interesting about the use of civilian aircraft to hide Ukie jets – kind of ties up with Spanish guy tweeting two Ukie aircraft followed MH17 – hmmm – curioser and curioser….these kiev junta and co. people are disgusting tbh.
Via Microbalrog, a Strelkov sitrep:
I am fed up with the uplifting messages! “The militia is winning!!!” Ha! We see an exact repeat of the situation in Slaviansk on a larger scale – the opponent advances step by step, cuts our supply lines, and Twitter reports “All is well, beautiful Marquess!”
Yesterday the opponent cut off the last major highway connecting Donezk to Lugansk – and thus to Russia. The opponent’s base camps are now in Beloye and Veselaya Tarasovka. The Ukrainians are now hastily digging in several dozen tanks and BMPs, to prevent a breakthrough.
The comment sections will now start everywhere – “Igor Ivanovich is sad”, hinting that “not all is so bad”. All is very bad!! Tactical victories on secondary areas cannot break the strategic situation, and the results of strategic defeats! The capture of Beloe and Veselaya Tarasovka is, for us, a strategic defeat!
Now we are being cut off from the border -that is, from any supplies.
(more)
Bleak. I really want to believe this is more Strelkov rope-a-dope.
True or completely false?
the Dutch media this time are somewhat more independent. than before, as the Dutch prime minister has acted slightly more neutral, under pressure from trade groups.
A lot of focus goes to the behavior of the local resistance, perceived as very rude by the Dutch press there. It is spinned up like crazy, but hopefully it will not be another PR disaster!
A critical site, for the mistrust and true risk from both sides: but hopefully some commander and a good PR person should be on the site ASAP!
CDN says:
Another person posted the following:
“In Ukrainian publics distributed video where militias allegedly trafficked to the RF side BUK, which was shot he Malaysia plane. But on the video Krasnoarmeysk city, visible billboard with advertising car dealership on Dnipropetrovsk st, 34. May 11, and city is still under the control of the junta troops conducting “ATO”. Questions?”
—
The video in question shows a BUK system with white tipped missiles being transported on a flatbed truck. One of the missiles appears to be missing.
Given that the video has been taken at a position located within the Ukies lines it suggests that the Ukies are seeking to remove evidence of their BUK system having been the one to have fired at MH17.
Second question. Given that the NAF has no air force why would the Ukies deploy 27 BUK systems to the area near Donetsk?
Why waste gas on a movement that achieves nothing? Why increase the maintenance burden on your hardware when it achieves nothing?
I am not military and I don’t buy missiles at trade fairs but with my marketing head on I’d see this:
What you see on a parade or a trade show is going to be something that observers understand to be ‘realistic’, thus if the convention in the FSU is for training warheads to be red and white when ‘live’ then when on parade, or on show the entire missile is likely a dummy but with its white hat. These would be dummies because a fuelled up missile without a warhead is still a dangerous thing to have on display.
However, a training missile will be fuelled up and ready to be fired, it will have no warhead. I’d expect that the warheads kept with these units would be training ones with the real missiles kept separately. That’d be for just such cases as happened in Ukraine with the rebels.
That tells us that what we see of these things on public display means nothing because training missiles are NOT dummies, hey are real and dangerous!
So, what I am curious about is the nature of this ‘convention’ in respect of training missiles and the real thing. Does it exist or is it disinfo?
More than that, given that the rebels have said they don’t have a BUK system could the reports from a couple of weeks ago be disinformation? Or might the rebels have the vehicles but be fully aware that they have no fully functional projectiles?
Whether or not the rebels did the shooting, if indeed there was any shooting, the injection of this particular weapon system into the ongoing narrative is very interesting and, with hindsight, not a coincidence!
BTW, there are no coincidences!
A coincidence is merely a connection that we do not yet understand.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/09/pushing-ukraine-to-the-brink/
I would suggest with 99% probability that red missiles are dummy warhead missiles.
The rationale is based on a parallel with safety procedures for aircraft. Some crucial external instruments such as pitot tubes are covered whilst the plane is parked on the ground. These covers have to be removed before takeoff to allow for safe flight. The covers therefore are colored bright red (and marked ‘remove before flight’) to make them very visible.
By analogy, in a war situation, a missile crew does not want to load a dummy missile when their and other lives depend on the missile working. The dummy missile would therefore be colored bright red to ensure they are visible in adverse conditions e.g. a Russian winter.
@vineyard of the saker
Take care of yourself! Lack of sleep weakens the immune system. Stress as well. Try not to let your emotions get wound up.
To all Russians and Novorussians from an American: please accept my apologies for the US government. It doesn’t represent me in any way. And there are probably many in America who don’t even know what the fuck is up. But there are still enough left that are trying to change it. Please feel free to do whatever you have to do, I know you will anyway, and I personally welcome whatever that may be. I trust you far more than ‘America’ . . .
Hong Kong journalist Yoichi Shimatsu says the MH17 crash is much bigger than Ukraine, the key is those rotting corpses, tied to major biowarfare labs based in the Netherlands, and the ICTS Israeli security thugs who run Amsterdam’s Schiphol airport. Shimatsu says the Israelis loaded the corpses, an explosive bomb, and biowarfare agents which might kill millions, onto that plane, timing the bomb to blow up upon landing in Malaysia.
Shimatsu thinks the plot was discovered, and Malaysian MH17 was shot down by a Nato fighter trying to explode and destroy the biowarfare agents … but the missile failed to create a fireball, leaving Ukraine the perhaps new epicentre of mass genocidal disease death. Shimatsu thinks Putin knows all this. FWIW –
Yoichi Shimatsu on MH17 as biowarfare bomb
Short video said to be of MH17 plummeting nose first toward the ground with a wing on fire
alleged video of MH17 falling nose first wing on fire
Sorry, wrong link above for the Yoichi Shimatsu article on Malaysian flight MH17 as biowarfare bomb planted by Israelis running Amsterdam airport, using biowarfare agents from Dutch labs – here is the correct link
Yoichi Shimatsu on MH17 as biowarfare bomb
Repeat from above post:
Hong Kong journalist Yoichi Shimatsu says the MH17 crash is much bigger than Ukraine, the key is those rotting corpses, tied to major biowarfare labs based in the Netherlands, and the ICTS Israeli security thugs who run Amsterdam’s Schiphol airport. Shimatsu says the Israelis loaded the corpses, an explosive bomb, and biowarfare agents which might kill millions, onto that plane, timing the bomb to blow up upon landing in Malaysia.
Shimatsu thinks the plot was discovered, and Malaysian MH17 was shot down by a Nato fighter trying to explode and destroy the biowarfare agents … but the missile failed to create a fireball, leaving Ukraine the perhaps new epicentre of mass genocidal disease death. Shimatsu thinks Putin knows all this.
The Buk system isn’t just a missile launcher. It also needs a control vehicle, a radar vehicle, and a missile loader vehicle. The militia would have to be in possession of the control, radar and pre-loaded launch vehicle in order to stand a realistic chance of hitting the target – along with substantial training.
I guess a missile launcher could be manually operated but what is the probability of aiming it correctly, firing it at the right time and hitting a fast-moving target at close to maximum range in the first and only shot?
It was Putin’s missile?
Pepe Escobar
http://rt.com/op-edge/174088-was-it-putin-missile/
.
RT, right here, right now, don’t miss it:
http://rt.com/news/174020-ukraine-malaysian-plane-area/
RT has done a SUPERB job, in English, with pictures and video interviews, including actual witnesses complaining of the stench from the bodies they saw fall out of the sky (one, God help us all, fell right through the roof and landed in a woman’s kitchen as she was out in her rose garden).
This. Is. Just. What. Is. Needed. to counteract all of the Empire’s lies. Facts and data, compellingly and honestly presented. HUZZAH!!! And RT et al., may we please have more of the same so we can help get the truth out. !!!!!!!
@ the Saker,
Suggest you take better care of yourself. The frequency of recurring flu virus is of great concern. Send the wife to the pharmacy or Health Food store to buy Elderberry extract (Sambucol) for adults – the original. You will find it is A Very effective natural aid to counter-flu. Good also for the kids.
The Malaysia M17
– Dr. Ron Paul’s comment Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1X2oAmJ_Lo
Who benefits? Not Russia or the Novorussians. http://gatetoliberty.blogspot.ca/2014/07/cui-bono_18.html
This tragedy has all the earmarks of a False Flag operation. The Ukrainian regime owes its very existence to the U.S. instigated violent overthrow of the country’s duly elected president. It stands to benefit if Russia and Vladimir Putin can be successfully blamed. However the Ukrainian military not only possesses missiles of the type used to shoot down Flight 17, it is trained in their use. Moreover, there is no evidence that the Russian separatists have ever possessed weapons with the ability to reach Flight 17’s altitude.
I don’t pretend to know who launched the missile that shot down the Malaysian airliner. There is, however, absolutely no doubt as to who bears ultimate responsibility for initiating the civil war in the Ukraine without which this catastrophe would never have occurred. That responsibility lies squarely with the government of the United States because it planned, organized, equipped and advised the forces that violently overthrew the legitimate government of the Ukraine some five months ago.
It was difficult to watch Samantha Power’s performance at the United Nations and President Obama’s televised remarks a few hours later. For these two to criticize any other government of interfering with another nation’s sovereignty is to display a truly nauseating level of hypocrisy. The transparent falseness of the entire narrative regarding events in the Ukraine and the relentless unanimity with which it is repeated by all establishment media is unprecedented.
Imo, the Kiev junta are keystone cops – overworking the propaganda and failing.
I read a commenter opine that the downing of Flt MH17 is a game changer for Novorussians. I disagree. Yes, this FF is a distraction – from the Kiev junta’s failing.
BUT General winter arrives in less than 90 days.
Dr. Jim Willie of the Hat Trick Letter observes:
Germany Pivoting East, Exit US Dollar…http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article46474.html
The wars are to defend the USDollar, in the last stages of its reign of terror. The harder the US gangsters pull on the reins, the more they apply the fracture from the lever. However, Ukraine is the Waterloo. Yet comes the dreaded HOLOMODOR (famine) since no planting season took place in the fertile rich lands. Thus no growing season during the outbreak of war. Thus no harvest season. Starvation during a collapsed economy will surely turn the tide against the US-led Fascists in Kiev, all in time. Mass defection among their ranks has already begun, the fascist forces running low on supplies like ammunition, food, water, surrounded and until a hail of grenade fire at numerous locations. Thefts of their central bank gold and raiding official bank accounts by the US-led regime assured the outcome. Do not expect Germany to continue its reckless NATO support in this failed mercenary action. The ultimate victim of this desperate adventure will be the USDollar and NATO.
Anon Mongoose
look into making/using “colloidal silver”…a natural antibiotic used for centuries….kills both viruses and bacteria….extremely effective and safe to use….drug companies hate it….because it is simply an element and elements can’t be patented and sold for huge profits…everyone reading this should take the time to find out more….michael
Get well fast, Saker! Lots of healing Reiki energy flows to your Vinyard, from all sides…
As for the missile tips: I’ve found this military photos forum; They also claim the red tips are inert;
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?236054-Ukraine-discussion-thread-Or-the-original-Butthurt-thread/page3927
Quote: “I remember that the Buk TELAR the UA fielded during the taking of Slavyansk had all green missiles so those probably were the real ones… “
But perhaps it wasn’t Buk after all? Perhaps it’s all misdirection to frame militia? Someone here suggests:
From another site: (col. cassad?)
…Буком не собьешь. Большая высота и быстро летит. Боинг пройдет зону поражения Бук’а меньше чем за минуту.
Для функционирования бука нужно около 20 человек разной специальности и 4 типа машина.
Таки цели сбиваются либо С-200, либо С-300, либо самолетами.
Бук под такие цели даже не проектировался…
Looks like Buk operation is quite demanding in itself and doubt militia had such a specialized personnel ready to use it under any circumstances.
For what it’s worth (not much imo) … http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/missile-tip-colors-t9776.html
Alexander Dugin’s perspective on the evolving battle in Novorossia is the soul of traditional Russia confronts the modern liberal state in the battle with Strelkov and company acting the role of heroes of the awakening Russian soul vs survival of the atomized individuals lured by the elites indoctrination. These irreconcilable forces meet in deadly confrontation which can no longer be avoided. Will the Russian soul shake off the dead hand of neo-liberal modernity or will it sink back into slumber?
Battle for the State. Russians Awaken.
Battle for the State.
Russians Awaken.
“Igor Strelkov is the symbol of the Russian Narod. Strelkov is the embodiment of our spirit, our will, our resistance. And even if we are not there with him, he makes us ashamed of ourselves and proud of him, but most important, he inspires Faith in ourNarod. Strelkov exists authentically. In him, our Narod finds its image. And all those who are with him—Gubarev, Motorola, Mozgovoi, Babai, Purgin, and all the heroes of the Donetsk and Lugansk Peoples’ Republics, living or dead—they are all our Narod, its faces. As it is. As it exists. One cannot rip it out, pollute it, or relativize it.”
“Putin has been balancing on this narrow fence between the State of a People—Narod and that of the mechanical and alienated Liberal elite for the past 14 years. He kept taking steps in one direction, then another. Of course, without a certain kind of support for Novorossia, today’s picture—even if critically difficult—would not be possible. Were Putin solely on the side if a dead State, Russia Corp., he would have betrayed everything himself long ago. But this is not the case. He comprises the painful drama of the Russian Statehood and its nature, crucified between Narod and the elite (always dependent upon the mass of surviving idiots—idiots in the etymological sense of the word, that is private citizens, individuals).”
From a friend on facebook;
“Been thinking about this all day. The destruction of MH17 and all lives on board was a very clear provocation designed to do two things:
Manipulate public opinion against Russia and its interests
Distract from the ongoing slaughter in Palestine
That shines the light on the real culprits, and they are not in Russia or East Ukraine. It also makes it more likely that MH17 was destroyed by a bomb on board, because that is the most simple, effective and ‘safe’ way to do it. When the people you are going to blame for the attack are not responsible, why risk people seeing a missile fired from the ground or a jet and the truth leaking out, when you can place a bomb on the plane, detonate it over East Ukraine, and then point the finger at whoever you want and suggest that it was a missile fired from the ground. Great for confusing the issue.”
latest Vice News videos from Ukraine. (the ONLY on the ground reporting by western media, and, for the time being, free of government propaganda BS from either side):
(shameless plug to my blog)
http://spreadanidea.wordpress.com/2014/07/19/ukraine-mh17-civil-war-vice-videos-dispatch-57-60/
Saker
“1) can somebody confirm to me that red-tipped Buk missiles are dummies used for training and not missiles equipped with a warhead?
2) is is true that the Resistance forces only seized red-tipped missiles?”
I think the “red warhead” is really just a protective cover placed over the tip of the missile to protect the sensors, which are in the nose portion of the missile. The handle shown in the close-up photo linked by somebody earlier is for easy removal of this red cover.
BTW, there are other variations of colour used on the missiles. See:
The “BUK” Ground Force Air Defense System
http://en.uos.ua/produktsiya/tehnika-pvo/75-zenitniy-raketniy-kompleks-buk
Note the red tipped missiles are in the loader section, white and green tipped ready to launch. I looked for variations of the missiles, such as types for specific target types, thinking the colour variations meant different types, but couldn’t find any.
See also this forum:
http://www.russiadefence.net/t1462p45-egyptian-ground-forces
Scroll down about halfway and one can see other missiles with red covers. The writer claims they are protective covers:
“This is a red nose cover, as I have seen these being removed in videos.”
вот так
Anonymous said…19 July, 2014 23:36
“latest Vice News videos from Ukraine. (the ONLY on the ground reporting by western media, and, for the time being, free of government propaganda BS from either side):
(shameless plug to my blog)”
http://spreadanidea.wordpress.com/2014/07/19/ukraine-mh17-civil-war-vice-videos-dispatch-57-60/
Shameless both for promoting vice news disinformation and promoting your blog. I cant see any reason to visit a blog by someone who promotes vice news. :D
I’ve noticed the ZPC/NWO has been posting rather thick here lately. Did something happen in Novorussia that they think important? ;)
вот так
Get well! Blessings!
It was Putin’s missile!
Excerpt: “And here’s the spin war verdict: the current Malaysia Airlines tragedy – the second in four months – is “terrorism” perpetrated by “pro-Russian separatists”, armed by Russia, and Vladimir Putin is the main culprit. End of story. Anyone who believes otherwise, shut up.
Why? Because the CIA said so. Because Hillary “We came, we saw, he died” Clinton said so. Because batshit crazy Samantha “R2P” Power said so – thundering at the UN, everything duly printed by the neo-con infested Washington Post. [1]
Because Anglo-American corporate media – from CNN to Fox (who tried to buy Time Warner, which owns CNN) – said so. Because the President of the United States (POTUS) said so. And mostly because Kiev had vociferously said so in the first place.
Right off the bat they were all lined up – the invariably hysterical reams of “experts” of the “US intelligence community” literally foaming at their palatial mouths at “evil” Russia and “evil” Putin; intel “experts” who could not identify a convoy of gleaming white Toyotas crossing the Iraqi desert to take Mosul. And yet they have already sentenced they don’t need to look any further, instantly solving the MH17 riddle.”
How many 9/11s do they think they can pull off?
I think Pepe is very polite [smart, actually] to use the word neo-con, because the ramification of using the right word would be… well career suicide or accidental suicide. Can’t blame the man.
Great: One of Captcha’s words is ‘sorcery.’ Could have been a lot worse, like voodoo or something :o)
The dummy warheads are wasting everyone’s time.
The shoot down is working. It has everyone focused on terrorism, Putin and not the slaughter of innocents civilians by the Ukies.
Meanwhile the Militia may be bogged down, unable to close the deal on the entrapments along the border.
That’s the issue. The war must be won. Momentum has been broken. No good stuff.
We are all chasing our tails over white, red, dummy or real when it was air-to air if the photos I posted earlier are the real thing.
Everyone has wasted time, but most of all the Militia. They need to kill Ukies. This limits their efforts and distracts everyone except Ukies.
Where the hell are the black boxes? And why hasn’t Russia sent in experts to get hold of them?
First reports the first day were 8 of 12 boxes were located. That was nonsense. There are 2. Black and voice boxes.
It’s like the children. Were there 3 or 80?
All this is distraction. Everyone is dead. Some stink and don’t bleed. What difference does that make to anything?
How it was shot down is all that matters. Rods mean air-to-air missiles, thus Ukies. Shrapnel from a Buk mean Ukies or militia.
Where is the other plane the militia said it shot down?
This goes endlessly nowhere.
Putin and Russia need to make sure the militia wins the war and destroy Kiev.
The press coverage is completely inadequate.
RT needs four more crews of people in there to get at some coherent reporting.
Colonel Cassad/Voice of Sevastopol seems to have good info. Politikus.ru has some good stuff.
But there is no full spectrum source day-to-day with coherency.
And really, folks, are there no bilingual Russians who can work the media? We need good translations of everything. It is insane trying to keep track of facts using machine translations.
The only thing that matters in the end is victory.
Victory means no more Ukraine, Kiev and the current destabilization of Russia.
They will sink a Ukie ship next. Then what?
The Russians need to double down and send in more volunteers with more artillery.
Ukraine isn’t a holding action. It’s for all the marbles in Moscow.
And why is this Kurginyan agitator always under Strelkov’s skin, distracting him and the militia from waging the war? Cap the SOB. He’s a fifth column guy who’s causing problems. Shoot the bastard.
We went from the road to a big victory to chaos because basic principles are violated.
Never brag about capturing equipment. Stop using social media. Expect the worst. Kill the enemy.
Being right counts for nothing. Win. Kill them all until there no longer is anyone left to threaten Russia. Ukraine is merely the place the war is located. It’s about Russia’s existence. Why does anyone think it is about East Ukraine?
YAY! again for RT — maybe they’ve heard our pleas. A VERY informative interview of a pilot and former aircraft controller regarding, well, all sorts of stuff actually. Just. Read. It. and rejoice that more facts are coming out!!! Again, it’s a very useful thing to pass around, so THANK YOU, RT and keep up the good work!!!
http://rt.com/op-edge/173824-malaysian-plane-missile-trajectory-ukraine/
@ David from Sweden,
Q: It also makes it more likely that MH17 was destroyed by a bomb on board,
R: If it would have been a bomb that explodes when a certain pressure level has been reached [or lowering thereof] it would have exploded much earlier, as flight MH17 has reached its cruising altitude hours earlier.
The dep@arture of Flight MH17 had a delay of 14 minutes, so that excludes any bombs with timers [as a plane in mid flight covers about 130 miles in 15 minutes].
I’m convinced it was a missile, because I read [somewhere] pieces of the plane/debrish had been found roughly 6 miles from the ultimate point of impact.
If is had been a heat seeking missile it would explode close to the source of heat as can be seen in this video footage.
The only question than remains: was it a STA or ATA missile?
Remember; one has to be absolutely sure the ‘rebels’ and Putin can be blamed for this. Nothing will be left to chance. Nothing.
As coincidence doesn’t exist, the current Apartheid State’s ground offensive [against what army?], the wanton slaughter of civilians in both the Ukraine and Palestine are now hidden behind the veil of this horrid tragedy.
Cui bono?
How are the nazis shelling Lugansk with impunity?
The Strelkov forces can’t reach the Ukie artillery?
@larchmonter445
“We went from the road to a big victory to chaos because basic principles are violated.
Never brag about capturing equipment. Stop using social media. “
I agree with you.
It turns out that MH17 was not diverted off the normal route because of bad weather, it was diverted to use a route avoided by Quanta and Ariana. Or was it the other way round?
@larchmonter445
Agree. Stay focus, knock those UKR plane’s out of sky. Protect your city and peoples, and preserve your self. It is not like western media will ever at your side anyway. Look at what they are doing to Putin and RF after all those restraint.
RF need to get its act together too. This war must win. He has not choice. Do what it need to do to achieve it, and before all your people are dead, and towns are lost.
If this link which suggests Canadian jets and NATO war games over Romania caused MH17 diversion north over SE Ukraine war zone then Rasmussen should be feeling the heat, imo.
http://bodhita.com/putin-threatened-obama-minutes-before-mh17-was-shot-down/
The dollar’s 70-year dominance is coming to an end
Within a decade, greenback’s could be replaced as the world’s reserve currency
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/liamhalligan/10978178/The-dollars-70-year-dominance-is-coming-to-an-end.html
@вот так
re: shameless plug
As I said, it is a shameless plug :-) To each their own.
I find that Vice is willing to allow both sides to tell their story in person, without introducing editorial “cues” telling the viewer how to feel.
For example, in Vice Ukraine #56, they let Lyashko do all the talking. That one was a disturbing. In another video they interviewed a Ukranian soldier wearing a swastika, explaining that “it’s just for good luck”.
I have not found anything like that in a western MSM news (too embarrassed to show this), and a Russian news source would show it but drown the potency of the original content with their preaching.
The side effect is that sometimes, the ugly side of the Novorossiyans is shown too. Such is life, there are very no angels in war.
At this point I would just establish an armed front at whatever point is convenient in Novorussia. Fuck the US and fuck the EU until they can deal with reality.
Moscow needs a defense zone and it’s time to stop fucking around.
I’ve just read something – (but i don’t know what to think about it).
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/19/airline-horror-spurs-new-rush-to-judgment/
This is from robert Parry:
“Regarding the shoot-down of the Malaysian jetliner on Thursday, I’m told that some CIA analysts cite U.S. satellite reconnaissance photos suggesting that the anti-aircraft missile that brought down Flight 17 was fired by Ukrainian troops from a government battery, not by ethnic Russian rebels who have been resisting the regime in Kiev since elected President Viktor Yanukovych was overthrown on Feb. 22.”
CDN asks:
If the NAF had a BUK they had recently captured from the Ukies
And
Given the fact that these are networked devices in which a single command post unit can connect to multiple transporter launcher units
Then
Is it not possible that the captured unit remained on the Ukie network and that the Ukie forces had all the required passwords and access codes?
And
Does this fact of networked devices mean that the Ukie command post could send a fire signal to the BUK captured by the NAF, resulting in the captured unit firing a missile toward a target designated by the Ukie command post unit?
—
This would help explain why the “recorded intercept” was prepared a day in advance. They were ready to roll the day before but the airline flight path was outside of their range.
It does not explain the alleged sighting of parachutes, the alleged sighting of chaff, the marks of the fuselage that appear to have been made by an air-to-air missile, or the alleged visual sighting of one or more Ukie fighters following MH17.
Cheers!
Yonatan, it is usually a mistake to grant Bloomberg News any credibility on any issue and particularly on Ukraine where their fellow financiers definitely have a dog in the fight.
The report, as written, is open to too many ambiguities which I think you were referring to with your question.
Commercial airplanes contain 2 [orange] black boxes.
1) cockpit voice recorder
2) flight data recorder
Both are installed in order to be able to determine the cause of a crash/accident.
I concur with larchmonter445’s sentiment that what the perpetrators of this horrible massacre wanted to achieve [have all eyes focused on the ‘rebels’, Russia and Putin] works, because you can’t open anything without being blasted with ‘Bad, Bad, Russia!’ headlines.
It’s a distraction. Please keep that in mind.
Why do you think they downed a plane with 300 in it?
It horrifies people around the globe and even more horrific crimes go [mostly] unnoticed.
2 x Malaysian Airlines in less than 4 months? Yeah, right.
We have to keep our eyes trained on what’s going on on the battlefield and less on TV/social media.
I think Strelkov should step back into the shade and let deeds [victories] replace words.
There’s still something true about the ‘Loose lips, sinks ships.’ angle.
Also agree with larchmonter.
However, the Western MSM is spinning this very hard now with lots of stories. If Russia has some information about what happened (radar, etc.), they need to get it to the media and start repeating it immediately.