The United States-Pakistan relationship has reached a turning point reminiscent of the run-up to October 1958, when Washington encouraged General Ayub Khan’s coup, apprehending the coming into power of an elected government in Pakistan that might have refused to collaborate as the US’s Cold War ally against the Soviet Union.
An innocuous-looking thing happened on Sunday – Pakistan regained possession of the Shamsi air base in Balochistan near the border with Iran after evicting the US military presence from there. The base itself had been leased to the United Arab Emirates (UAE) since 1992.
The event is at once symbolic and tactical, while at the same time highly strategic even as war clouds are on the horizon over Iran. Symbolic in the sense that it is an assertion of Pakistan’s sovereignty; tactical because the US war strategy, which heavily depended on the drone attacks on North Waziristan, will now have to be reworked. Is the drone era in the Afghan war coming to a brusque end?
However, in all of this, what needs some careful analysis is why the US’s eviction from Shamsi holds strategic implications.
A mild stimulus
Washington initially viewed Islamabad’s decision to expel the US personnel and drone systems from Shamsi with disbelief as a knee-jerk reaction by the Pakistani generals upset over the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s (NATO) air strike on the border post at Salala in the Mohmand Agency on November 26, which killed 24 Pakistani soldiers. Thus, Washington pressed its ally the UAE into a mediatory role.
UAE Foreign Minister Sheikh Abdullah bin Zeyed al-Nahyan met President Asif Ali Zardari to seek revocation of the Pakistani decision or at least an extension of the 15-day deadline, but returned empty-handed. On getting the bad news from the sheikh, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton phoned Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani, which was followed by a call a day later by President Barack Obama to Zardari.
Both Clinton and Obama drew a blank and thereafter the Pentagon reluctantly began the evacuation from Shamsi.
Clearly, the US underestimated the downstream consequences of the November 26 attack on Pakistan. Pakistani director general of military operations, Major General Ashfaq Nadeem told the federal cabinet and the parliament’s defense committee last week in a detailed briefing in Islamabad that the NATO attack bore the hallmark of a well-planned “plot” by the US and NATO command in Afghanistan.
If the likely US intention was to “engage” the Pakistani military leadership with a mild stimulus of “shock and awe”, it proved counter-productive. The civil-military leadership in Pakistan still continues to talk in the same voice. Gilani’s “ex-post facto” endorsement of army chief General Ashfaq Kiani’s decision to deploy the defense systems on the Afghan border to “detect any aircraft or helicopter and to shoot it down”, at their meeting in Islamabad on Saturday is the latest evidence of this.
But the crux of the matter is that the Obama administration has once again ceded policy to the Pentagon. With the Central Intelligence Agency also headed by an army general, David Petraeus, the Pentagon is pushing through a long-term military presence in Afghanistan although a political solution is Obama’s stated goal. The US military aims to step up the fighting. The “drawdown” strategy outlined by Obama last year is being conveniently reinterpreted for this purpose.
The US’s most recent statements have shed the strategic ambiguity over the “drawdown” and it is now crystal clear that tens of thousands of American combat troops are after all going to remain in Afghanistan beyond 2014 for an indeterminate future in addition to the trainers and advisers devoted to “capacity-building” of the Afghan armed forces.
The New York Times noted that Pentagon had been “quietly pushing” for this policy shift for some time. In essence, even as the negotiations over the US-Afghan strategic pact paving the way for the establishment of American military bases in Afghanistan have come to the final stage, the US is discarding the strategic ambiguity about the scope and nature of its long-term military presence.
Demand-driven partnership
This shouldn’t have come as a surprise. But Pakistan is facing a difficult situation. Contrary to Pakistan’s line of thinking that the military path is futile, the US is sticking to the “fight-talk” approach, which is to go on fighting while exploring the scope for opening talks with a militarily degraded Taliban from a position of strength.
Two, the US is not willing to concede a central role for Pakistan in the peace talks and is non-committal about Pakistan’s wish to have a “friendly” government in Kabul, because it seeks to choreograph a settlement that first and foremost would meet the needs of its regional strategies.
Three, paradoxical as it may seem, the continued fighting actually suits the US in the coming period, because it not only provides the justification for the long-term deployment of combat troops in Afghanistan despite regional (and Afghan) opposition but also gives the raison d’etre for the Northern Distribution Network (read US-NATO military presence in Central Asia), which Russia is showing signs of linking to the resolution of the dispute over the US’s missile defense system and the dissipation of the US-Russia “reset”.
Over and above all this, Obama’s decision to keep a large force of combat troops in Afghanistan needs to be viewed against the backdrop of the growing tensions in the US-Iran relations. In the eventuality of any conflict with Iran in a near future, this sort of massive military presence on Iran’s eastern flank would be a great strategic asset for the US and NATO.
Make no mistake, the US intends to use the military bases in Afghanistan as a springboard to invade eastern Iran if conflict erupts, no matter what President Hamid Karzai may think or say. By the way, Shamsi is also key air base close to the Iran border. Unsurprisingly, NATO is considering a “joint center” in the Persian Gulf region with the Gulf Cooperation Council countries. Thus, the US hopes to “box in” Iran militarily from the Persian Gulf on one side and Afghanistan on the other.
Indeed, NATO is fast transforming as a “smart alliance” based on a security partnership between the 28 members and the rest of the world, thanks to the military intervention in Libya. Ivo Daalder, the US ambassador to NATO, put it explicitly in a recent briefing:
The Libya operation was a logical outflow of the view that we need to have partnerships with countries around the world … The United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Jordan and Morocco not only supported the operation, but also participated in it … Lebanon was also a key in the operation, as it was president of the UN Security Council at that time and enacted the 1973 resolution … This is a demand-driven partnership. A demand by Arab countries.
All in all, therefore, the “hidden agenda” of the Afghan war is out in the open. Pakistan finds itself between the devil and the deep blue sea. First of all, the Pakistani military distrusts the US’s intentions behind such large-scale intelligence penetration of its security apparatus in the recent years under the pretext of the “war on terror”, including the Inter-Services Intelligence and the military. In particular, the military leadership fears that the US harbors intentions of seizing Pakistan’s nuclear assets at an opportune moment.
Obama’s unprecedented decision to promote Petraeus as the Central Intelligence Agency head rang alarm bells in the Pakistani mind. Second, US interests and priorities in Afghanistan are increasingly in conflict with Pakistan’s. Third, Pakistan simply cannot afford to alienate China and Iran (or Russia for that matter). Finally, the US will sooner or later deploy its missile defense system in the region, which will threaten Pakistan’s strategic capability.
Shaking the albatross
The message of the US strike of November 26 was a test case intended to “soften up” the Pakistani military leadership and compel it to fall in line with the US’s strategy. Sheikh Nahyan tried to talk some good sense into the minds of the Pakistani generals. But the Shamsi episode underscores that the contradiction in US-Pakistan relations is far too acute to be reconciled easily or in a near term.
The point is, it is turning out to be contradiction of a fundamental character. The implications are serious. Pakistan is “obstructing” the US’s regional strategy. Put differently, Pakistan is a vital cog in the wheel of the US strategy.
Pakistan dissociated openly from the agenda of the recent Istanbul conference (November 2), which aimed at creating an Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe-type regional security mechanism for Central and South Asia and launching the New Silk Road project aimed at rolling back Russian and Chinese influence in Central Asia. Pakistan also boycotted the Bonn conference (December 5) that was expected to legitimize the long-term US military presence in Afghanistan. To be sure, the two events floundered.
Washington is now left guessing whether Pakistan’s strategic defiance is for real. Its historical experience is that the Pakistani elites eventually buckle under American pressure. But the “strategic defiance” over Shamsi would come as a surprise. Meanwhile, by ceding Afghan policy to the Pentagon (and CIA), Obama has taken the precaution of minimizing the scope of this problem area causing controversy during his re-election bid next year. Petraeus is also well liked by the Republicans.
This is an “Ayub-Khan moment” in the US-Pakistan relationship. Once again, popular opinion in Pakistan threatens to intrude into the relationship. But then, there are key differences, too. Kiani is far from the jovial Sandhurst-trained general Ayub Khan was, who was fond of his drink and all good things in life and was used to obeying orders.
Besides, China is not only not the Soviet Union or an adversary of Pakistan, but is in reality its one and only “all-weather friend”. How can or why should Pakistan possibly collaborate with the US’s containment strategy toward China?
The most important difference between 1958 and 2011, however, is, firstly, that Kiani’s “nativist traditions” require him to act within the collegium of corps commanders who are acutely conscious of the mood within the armed forces, which is that Pakistan should shake off the albatross that was hung around its neck in late 2001.
Second, the Pakistani army is taking great and meticulous care that while traversing the shark-infested waters in the months ahead, it holds the hands of the country’s civilian leadership at every stage, every moment.
The challenge facing the US is to locate an Ayub Khan, but it is an improbable challenge.
Ambassador M K Bhadrakumar was a career diplomat in the Indian Foreign Service. His assignments included the Soviet Union, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Germany, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Kuwait and Turkey.
Dear Saker,
Here we go, finally it’s going main stream Media, no way to hide it anymore….LOL
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hezbollah-identifies-undercover-cia-officers-working-in-lebanon-in-dangerous-spy-war/2011/12/12/gIQAJ9aIqO_story.html
Hezbollah identifies undercover CIA officers in Lebanon in dangerous spy war
By Associated Press, Published: December 12
WASHINGTON — The militant group Hezbollah has revealed the identities of CIA officers working undercover in Lebanon, a blow to agency operations in the region and the latest salvo in an escalating spy war.
Hezbollah made the names public in a broadcast Friday night on a Lebanese television station, al-Manar. Using animated videos, the station recreated meetings purported to take place between CIA officers and paid informants at Starbucks and Pizza Hut.
The disclosure comes after Hezbollah managed to partially unravel the agency’s spy network in Lebanon after running a double agent against the CIA, former and current U.S. intelligence officials said. They requested anonymity to discuss matters of intelligence.
In June, Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah bragged that his group had identified at least two spies working for the CIA. It is not clear whether one of those spies was, in fact, the same double agent working for Hezbollah, which is considered a terrorist group by the U.S. Nasrallah has called the U.S. Embassy in Beirut a “den of spies.”
The fiasco happened despite top CIA officials being warned to be extra careful when handling informants after Hezbollah and Lebanese officials arrested scores of Israeli spies in 2009.
The outing of the officers is particularly damaging because it will hinder the ability of these CIA employees to work overseas again — especially in the Internet age where references to their names will be widely available to other foreign intelligence agencies.
The CIA dismissed Hezbollah’s assertions.
Al-Manar said the CIA team in Lebanon consisted of 10 officers and all used diplomat cover. The station said their jobs were to oversee intelligence networks in Lebanon….LOL
On another front, there is an important development that happened yesterday.
Iranian Minister of Intelligence, visited Riyadh in Saudi Arabia, and met with the
crown Prince Nayef who is the actual ruler of the KSA due to the illness and age
of the King there….and who himself is well into his 70s, early 80s….
It is said that the Iranian envoy brought a message of the highest importance from
the Iranian Leadership to his Saudi hosts…., a meeting by the way which was previously
Refused by the Saudis for over a year….until yesterday…..
BEST,
Joe
Saker;
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203518404577096031404782816.html?mod=googl
Best;
Joe
Joe, Saker,
Hizb is sending a message, since it likely knew who the CIA handlers were while they were in Lebanon and could have arrested/killed them at any time.
I think they are saying “let’s keep this game civilized.” Also, they’re reminding the CIA Hizb has plenty of rungs on their escalation ladder if the CIA ignores the first suggestion.
Vineyard, what do you think about this movement? (others, sorry it is in Russian? no translation available. this is a young political movement founded by Kurginyan – Russian historian who obviously knows a lot about new and current Russian political reality).
http://eot.su/manifest
@Anonymous: I am about to begin working, so I only had a very short time to skim through the manifest you refer to and my first impression is that the authors of the document make fundamental assumptions which I categorically disagree with. First, they write “Все мы относимся к краху СССР как к личной трагедии… потеря СССР для нас – это утрата… Разрушенный Советский Союз живет в наших сердцах. И поскольку он в них живет – СССР может быть восстановлен”.
IMHO, the relationship between Russia (as a historical, cultural and spiritual phenomenon) and the USSR is the same one as between a body and a malignant cancer: they do share a lot of common DNA, but the latter will always result in the death of the former. Conversely, just as it is very hard to get rid of only cancer cells but without killing the host, so it is hard to “de-sovietify” Russian society without killing Russia itself. And yet, this process of “de-sovietification” is, IHMO, crucial, vital, for the rebirth of Russia.
The illegal and anti-democratic destruction of the USSR by Eltsin, Kravchuk and Shushkevich was a terrible blow for Russia, but now that this is done, Russia did get rid of a HUGE amount of very dangerous cancer cells and Russia did survive and come back as a real world power (unlike all the former Soviet republics which are basically irrelevant to the world and run by outside powers. The *LAST* thing Russia needs is any kind of reunification with the former USSR republics; possible exceptions: Kazakhstan, Belarus, Crimea.
Anyway, I got to run now.
Cheers!
Vineyard, I know your take on USSR in general and I was kind of expecting a quick reaction. (but)
The idea is not to return to USSR again (and this movement is not equal to KPRF).
The text deals with many if not all of points you ‘ve made (I will not try to reproduce it in my strained English, hope you’ll get time to read through it).
For me some thoughts in the text are very true and resonate deeply with my gut feelings.
I’ll be personal here, for a sake of illustration.
I’m Russian (may be this explains something?) i’m 36, I’m educated, I’ve never been a communist (or interested in communism), I’m more or less happy and have a decent living standards.
I really have nothing to complain about at the moment.
But I also have a very strong feeling that the suggested (by West) way of living is empty and leads to nowhere. It makes no sense. Is it only my illusion that we are living at the end of the history? Should not human beings try to find something else? What should that else look like or where to look at?
@Anonymous: Should not human beings try to find something else? What should that else look like or where to look at?
Have you ever seen the picture of Glazunov “The return of the prodigal son”?
http://starat.narod.ru/pictures/glazunov/pic40.jpg
I believe that it contains the answer: Russia should return to its original spiritual and cultural roots. Are you aware of the Tempelton speech of Alexander Solzhenitsyn?
http://solzhenicyn.ru/modules/pages/Templtonovskaya_lekciya.html
Now this does not have to be in the formal aspect. I am not suggestion that Russia elect some monarch. But rather in an inner, spiritual process, of turning away from BOTH the Western Capitalist ideology AND the (mostly Jewish) ideology of Marxism and its offshoots. Both of these ideological systems are inherently and deeply russophobic, as is the Western Papacy, by the way. These 3 ideological systems (Capitalism, Marxism, Papism) have always, and I mean ALWAYS, offered Russia only two basic choices: assimilate or by destroyed. But these are not, at least now, external enemies whose tanks and weapons threaten Russia. These are spiritual enemies whose name is Legion and whose weapons are ideological. No amount of military hardware will protect Russia from them. This is why Alexander Nevsky said (quoting Saint Augustine, by the way), не в силе Бог, а в правде. And even Christ said that “If ye continue in My word, then are ye My disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free”. Notice the (always overlook) words “IF you continue i my words”. This is what Russia needs to do, return to His words. All the great Russian thinkers and philosophers new that, from the great Dostoevsky, to Ivan Solonevich, from Khomiakov, to Ivan Iliin,from Lev Tikhomirov to Rozanov, from Igor Shafarevich to Leonid Borodin.
That also means renouncing the kind of imperial nationalism which began with Peter I and is still prevalent in Russian society today, and that means kicking out the thugs who impersonate Orthodox bishops in the Moscow Patriarchate today, beginning with that apostate and Mafia-boss Kirill Gundaev.
That is a tall order, and it will take decades of painful, self-scrutinizing and repentence. This is why Solzhenitsyn spoke of “Repentance and self-limitation as categories of national life” http://www.vehi.net/samizdat/izpodglyb/05.html
Does that make sense to you?
@Anonymous: i’m 36, I’m educated, I’ve never been a communist (or interested in communism), I’m more or less happy and have a decent living standards.
Full disclosure: I am a 4th generation émigré, what was called a недобитый белобандит after the Revolution. I have never been a member of any party, though I sympathize with the Russian Pirate Party (-: http://pirate-party.ru/ :-). I used to be a military analyst in a past life, but now at 48 I work as an interpreter. My wife is also a 4th generation and our kids, 5th generation, and we all still speak Russian at home. My family left in 1921 and those who stayed were either murdered by the Bolsheviks or spent decades in the Gulag as class enemies or under the 58th article. Before the Revolution of 1917, my family for many generations were all officers in the Russian army, mostly in the mounted artillery (конная артилерия)
Cheers!
I’m not sure the “Papacy” should any more be considered a threat to Russia or the Orthodox. In the Roman Catholic Church some writers can be found who speak pejoratively of the Eastern Orthodox Church and its theology, but these writers are marginal. The official view of the Catholic Church is that expressed in the Decree Unitatis redintegratio of the Second Vatican Council:
“In the study of revelation East and West have followed different methods, and have developed differently their understanding and confession of God’s truth. It is hardly surprising, then, if from time to time one tradition has come nearer to a full appreciation of some aspects of a mystery of revelation than the other, or has expressed it to better advantage. In such cases, these various theological expressions are to be considered often as mutually complementary rather than conflicting. Where the authentic theological traditions of the Eastern Church are concerned, we must recognize the admirable way in which they have their roots in Holy Scripture, and how they are nurtured and given expression in the life of the liturgy. They derive their strength too from the living tradition of the apostles and from the works of the Fathers and spiritual writers of the Eastern Churches. Thus they promote the right ordering of Christian life and, indeed, pave the way to a full vision of Christian truth.”
The Roman Catholic Church’s attitude was expressed by Pope John Paul II in the image of the Church “breathing with her two lungs” He meant that there should be a combination of the more rational, juridical, organisation-minded “Latin” temperament with the intuitive, mystical and contemplative spirit found in the east.
So whatever the theological errors and past crimes of the Roman church it is not now hostile to the Orthodox at all but seeks a reconciliation.
Vineyard, thank you, I think I understand you much better now.
Does that make sense to you?
Not much, unfortunately. First, religion is mostly personal affair (speaking roughly). I don’t see how it can be a constructive and uniting force on a political stage in these times. Second, personally I don’t feel a connection to this part of Russian tradition and I don’t understand Christianity deeply (I’m a buddhist – funny but true). This way is closed for me (that doesn’t mean that there is no common ground of course). But I definitely feel my Russian identity. In fact Christianity is being actively promoted now in Russia on a government level. It doesn’t work well – people still feel emptiness, although they are trying to get refuge in it. There are many like me (atheists for instance). And third, I don’t trust Solzhenitsyn (sorry).
There are some hard facts about USSR in 20th century. It quickly become a developing country. It won a horrible war. It became a superpower. The population was growing. The education and science were advancing. Now it is all gone (please make no mistake about current situation – it is worsening). These should not be dismissed.
When I’m looking around I see traces of “ancients” everywhere in form of artifacts and knowledge. “Ancients” have built an infrastructure of a great strength – it is still serving after 20 years or more! Modern Russian are incapable of this.
http://eot.su/node/10203
These ancients were Russians who were “burning”. Russian should be burning to do something real.
What can be an idea which could make Russians burn now?
@Robert: I think that you and I have to totally disagree here. First and foremost, the Papacy has never denounced its numerous innovations and heresies. In fact, the “two lungs” is equating the non-equitable, which is just another way of telling the Orthodox: what the Church Fathers have rejected as heresy you shall now accept as Orthodox”. Nor has the Papacy ever denounced the primacy of the Pope who, from a Patristic point of view, is claiming attributes which solely belong the the Universal Church.
Christ tells us not to fear those who can kill our bodies, but only those who can kill our souls. So now instead of killing Orthodox Christians (as in the past), the Papacy is telling us that it and the Church are two lungs of one Body, even though Saint Athanaius clearly taught us that true Christianity is the faith “which the Lord gave, was preached by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers. On this was the Church founded; and if anyone departs from this, he neither is nor any longer ought to be called a Christian“.
So you tell me, which is the bigger threat to the Orthodox Christian, the Jesuit who wants to kill him at majorem Dei gloriam, or the smiling modern Jesuit who tells him that they are now both brothers in Christ as long as the Primacy of the Pope is accepted and that nothing else really matters?
Read the famous dialog “The Great Inquisitor” in Dostoevsky’s “Karamazov Brothers”. Remember what the Inquisitor tells Christ? “You have done your part, now leave us alone, we are now in charge”. That has ALWAYS been the message of the Papacy, from the Frankish invasion of Byzantium to today’s “ecumenical dialog of love” between the Pope and the thug and Mafia-boss Kirill Gundaev who fancies himself Patriarch of Russia.
The Papacy will always welcome the (ex-)Orthodox with open arms, as long as they, in turn, forget about the Truth which the Lord gave, was preached by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers and upon which the Church was founded. That is exactly the option given to Christ by Satan when he was tempted in the desert.
That is the option which we, Orthodox Christians, shall never, ever accept.
You may well be right Saker and I won’t argue.
It’s years since I read Brothers Karamazov. I was about eighteen at the time was transfixed by it, especially the story of the Grand Inquisitor. I would go so far as to say that there is nothing in English literature that compares with Dostoyevsy except for Shakespeare himself.
@Anonymous: In fact Christianity is being actively promoted now in Russia on a government level. It doesn’t work well – people still feel emptiness
And so they should! What is, indeed, being promoted at the government level is ‘Christian’ only in name. That is why I wrote that Russia needs to “kick” it and turn back to the real thing. Golden cupolas, incense and beautiful sining are not Christianity. These things can be a part of Christianity, but they don’t have to. Add to this that in modern Russia this “official Orthodoxy” has pretty much taken the place of the communist ideology, and you see it for what it is: yet another form of state sponsored nationalism.
It is ironic that I spend my time telling Western atheists, Western Papists and now a Russian Buddhist exactly the same thing: what you all mistake for Christianity is only an external appearance of the faith “which the Lord gave, was preached by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers. On this was the Church founded”. (I must have used this expression on the blog already over 20 times, that is how crucial I think it is!). Nowadays, true Christianity has practically disappeared from most parts of the planet and it is extremely rare to meet somebody who has actually been exposed to the real thing. I know, this will sound rather crazy to most people, but that is the absolute and incontrovertible truth. A man can sit in the Papal See in Rome or the Patriarchal See in Moscow, but that in itself does in NO WAY make him the head of a truly Christian Church. In fact, as Church history shows us, that does not even prove that the man is a Christian. I really don’t have a problem with people rejecting Christianity, by the way, I just wish they realized that was most of them reject has little or no connection to the “historical Christianity” to the (there we go again) faith ““which the Lord gave, was preached by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers.
I’m a buddhist – funny but true. Nothing funny about that, at least not to me. The Buddhist faith has always existed in Russia, why should it be funny? I don’t believe that the Russian nation was much influenced by Buddhism in its function as state-builder (государствообразующая нация) but at least Buddhism cannot be blamed for the many ugly and outright disgusting parts of Russian history :-)
I don’t trust Solzhenitsyn I am not asking you to trust him. I am asking you to read his words.
@Robert: in my reply to anonymous above I mentioned what is at the very core of my worldview: the deeply held belief that Christianity is NOT the religion of 2’000’000’000+ people. Yes, two billion plus people might honestly and sincerely believe that their religion is ‘Christianity’, but that does not make it so. In fact, the fact that so-called ‘Christianity’ is in reality a hodge-podge of many tens (at least!) of denominations which are mutually exclusive and which, at least until recently, have mutually condemned each other should tell anybody with an ounce of logic that something has changed since this Apostolic times.
My personal contention is that only a very small segment of the so-called “Orthodox” Christian denominations are still in the direct and uninterrupted continuity of the faith which (here we go again!) “which the Lord gave, was preached by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers”. For this small segment of what is called “Orthodoxy” the actual, historical, dogmatic and objective reality of what Christianity was like 2000 years ago matters a great deal. For all the rest it matters very little indeed. This is why you can now see inter-denominational religious services (something categorically banned by the Christian canon law) or even inter-religious celebrations with not only various nominally Christian groups praying together, but even non-Christians, including Australian pagan aborigines. The point is not whether such events are good or bad, but that objectively they are not allowed under some rather basic rules of Christian canon law. Yet, nobody pays any attention to that. This ignorance (willed and non-willed) of what objectively is “Christianity” is what I denounce here.
Have you see the images of Roman Popes and Orthodox Patriarchs kissing each other and praying together? They are hailed as grand achievements of the “ecumenical dialog of love”. The reality is that both from the Papist and the Orthodox view, they are a farce. Why? From the point of view of Roman-Catholic dogmatics, the Orthodox Patriarchs are unrepentant schismatics which have willfully cut themselves off the Church because of their pride. From the point of view of Orthodox dogmatics, the Roman-Catholics are heretics on too many accounts to be listed here. So why do they act like “its not big deal”.
===>>>BECAUSE THEY DON’T CARE<<<===
That is what makes them, IMNSHO, not truly Christian. Real Christians who take their faith seriously would care. They don’t. No wonder they inspire so few people and that most people are growing disgusted and disillusioned with them…
@TO ALL: I will try to clarify my key point by taking an example. Since anonymous said that he is a Buddhist, it inspired me to use the following example:
What if anonymous heard people having the following discussion
Person A: I don’t like Buddhism: look at India – the country of the Buddha – and the revolting cast system it has. India has always had some cast system in one way or another, from the Vedic times to today, and that kind of system clearly shows that while Buddhists say one thing, they actually practice another, and that makes them all hypocrits
Person B: the West also has a cast system, but its covert; at least in India it is overt and Buddhism teaches compassion towards all, so even the lower casts are shown compassion whereas in the West, the rich don’t care about the poor…
I can just imagine how frustrated a real Buddhist would be hearing that. He would try to argue a basic point: Buddhism is not Hinduism and Buddhism has absolutely nothing to do with the cast system which, in fact, it opposes.
This is EXACTLY how I feel when I see on one hand agnostic/atheistic people condemning Christianity for features which Christianity never had or promoted and then Western ‘Christians’ ‘defending’ ‘Christianity’ for, well, features which Christianity never had or promoted. The reality is, of course, that BOTH sides create themselves their own ‘virtual Christianity’ with no basis in historical or theological reality.
NEITHER the Papacy NOR the religion sponsored and promoted by the state in Russia are objectively the same religion which (here I go again!) “the Lord gave, was preached by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers”. That is not an opinion, that is a provable fact. I don’t mind somebody not caring about this fact, but I do mind when somebody denies it’s factuality.
@TO ALL: one more thing, before I am misunderstood here. I am NOT saying that all the people in the various Christian denominations are somehow ‘bad’ or insincere. In fact, a lot of these people are far kinder, more generous, more sincere and much closer to the ethical ideal of Christian perfection than the few who just happen for reason x y z to be part of the few Christian denominations which have, indeed, preserved the faith (here we go again!) which “the Lord gave, was preached by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers”. In fact, many NON-Christiany, Muslism, Hindus, Buddhists or even agnostics or atheists might be far kinder, more compassionate, more honorable or even saintly than the folks who happen to be in the denominations which have preserved the faith which (yes, once again!) “the Lord gave, was preached by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers”. The fact that a kind Hindu is much closer to Christ’s example does not mean that this Hindu has somehow become a ‘Christian’, right? So, my point is not about individuals, its primarily about an ecclesiastical body and secondarily about a corpus of teachings. Unless a denomination has apostolic continuity and the very same faith as the one “the Lord gave, was preached by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers” it cannot be considered stricto-sensu ‘Christian’.
I hope that I am not misunderstood on this point.
It is ironic that I spend my time telling Western atheists, Western Papists and now a Russian Buddhist exactly the same thing: what you all mistake for Christianity is only an external appearance of the faith “which the Lord gave, was preached by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers. On this was the Church founded”.
That’s certainly not about me. I’ve said that I do not understand an essence of Christianity, but this thing I understand very well: you don’t have to depend on any religious institute.
But that was not my point (not saying that religion is pretty orthogonal to politics – but that could be my buddhist bias).
I’m a Buddhist and I feel Russian. You are a Christian and you also identify yourself as Russian. What ELSE makes us common (we don’t share a religion)? Is it only language and culture?
@anonymous: you don’t have to depend on any religious institute
Actually, you absolutely and totally do. Sorry :-)
Really, as the Church Fathers said, he who does not have the Church as the Mother does not have God as a Father. This is also why one of the greatest saints of the history of Christianity AND one of the foremost authorities on ecclesiology (“Church studies” if you want) famously said “outside the Church there is no salvation”. The reality is that only the Orthodox Christians believe that because the Papists have replaced the Church with the Pope (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatus_Papae) and the Reformed have replaced the Church with the Bible (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_scriptura). The only ones left who really and literally *believe* that the Church is Human/Divine Body of Christ (the “theandric Body of Christ” in patristic language) are the Orthodox Christians. And yet, the highest dogma of Christianity, the Creed, clearly says [we believe]” In one holy catholic and apostolic Church”. Notice, it does not say “we belong” or “we adhere” or “we join” but we BELIEVE. Nowadays, ONLY the Orthodox Christians still fully confess this believe (see wikipedia articles above in case of doubts).
You are a Christian and you also identify yourself as Russian. What ELSE makes us common?
You tell me? What do you think?
Really, as the Church Fathers said, he who does not have the Church as the Mother does not have God as a Father.
That basically means uninterrupted lineage, right? How to guarantee its legitimacy (i.e. it was not really interrupted or distorted in 2.000 years)? Or the meaning here is not so strict. For example, a Buddhist takes refuge in Triple Gems: Buddha, Dhamma (his teachings) and Sangha (noble followers). But there is kind of ‘fallback mode’ where you can be left on your own and have to seek them in you heart.
What I understand, you are no big supporter of current bishops in Russia. The idea is that a Christian should turn to real ones? How he can find them?
You tell me? What do you think?
I don’t know, just asked :) May be there is no such a thing. Some traits in Russian character are pretty tangible though.
@anonymous:That basically means uninterrupted lineage, right?
It means two things:
a) apostolic succession (aka uninterrupted lineage) and
b) true/correct beliefs (aka “orthodoxy” with a small “o”)
What I understand, you are no big supporter of current bishops in Russia.
Correct, they fail BOTH criteria above.
The idea is that a Christian should turn to real ones? How he can find them?
*EXACTLY*. Now this is not an easy task nowadays, and this is why Christ said blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled. Notice the words ‘hunger’ AND ‘thirst’. These are very strong, gut-level, almost survival feelings. That means that you cannot find the true bishops only by casual interest, or philosophical exploration. You need to really really REALLY care, like your life depends on it (it does, btw). But anybody who REALLY wants to find them, can. But you need to place the truth above ANY other consideration including upbringing, geographical distance, national/tribal origin, cultural preferences, family roots, or anything else. This is why the Gospel says “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind”. To find the truth you need to REALLY REALLY REALLY care, badly, above anything and everything else. Lukewarm, purely scholastic interest, just does not do the trick…
@anonymous: speaking of the ‘truth’ check out this amazing linguistic/cultural study of the word:
http://azbyka.ru/vera_i_neverie/o_boge2/stolp_i_utverzhdenie_istiny_03-all.shtml
How much I wish that this text was available in English…..