Dear friends,
It is a huge pleasure for me to submit to you a detailed analysis made by “CDN” of the circumstances of the downing of MH17.
You will notice that CDN’s analysis does not agree with my own hypothesis. The difference being that CDN does have the professional expertise (accident investigation) to write such a report while I do not. Still, CDN has specifically asked me to “please encourage readers to be critical of my analysis” which I indeed encourage you to do: his analysis does not pretend to be The One And Only Truth but instead a basis for discussion.
You can download his full report by clicking on either one of the following links:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByibNV3SiUoobnpCVDduaHVORHM/edit?usp=sharing
http://www.mediafire.com/view/61qa99yt6v3dq64/MH17Analysis_Parts_1_and_2.pdf
I am getting increasingly frustrated and angry at the fact that clearly the Dutch and the British, obviously under the orders of Uncle Sam, are sitting on the data of the flight data recorders and not releasing them. At the very least, the following countries have the recordings of the radio contacts between MH17 and the Kiev ATC:
1) The junta’s SBU
2) The USA
3) Russia
and then two more countries – France and Switzerland – which probably have them too. Even if these recordings are destroyed, there are enough people out there who by now who know what happened. The truth will come out sooner or later. In the meantime, the main task is not to discover The One And Only Truth, but first to disprove the complex of lies of the Empire and, then, to gradually get close and closer to the truth.
We all owe a huge debt of gratitude to CDN who produced a professional-grade report and made it available for us for the sole reward of advancing the cause of truth and justice. I am personally deeply grateful to CDN for choosing this blog to release his report.
I ask you all to share with us your comments, especially your critical ones, to make it possible for CDN to refine his analysis. This would be the best way to thank him for his truly excellent work.
The Saker
Saker Message:
http://www.news24.com/Travel/Flights/Air-India-plane-only-90-seconds-away-from-MH17-tried-to-make-contact-20140721
“The Times of India said Ukrainian air traffic controllers had asked the Air India pilots to try and establish contact with the Malaysia Airlines jet, which had stopped responding to its calls.
The Air India plane, which was flying from Delhi to Birmingham and was less than 25 kilometres from Malaysia MH17, received no response, according to the paper.”
Very odd – almost like they were being jammed.
The report is valuable in disproving the rebel Buk claims but does little to explain what really happened.
My analysis of the physical evidence results in the following preliminary conclusion:
MH17 was brought down by a frontal attack by a fighter jet. The jet fired a “machine gun” or autocannon through the left side windshield right at the captain. The direction of fire was from slightly to the left and slightly above. The bullets left perfectly round holes of about 20 mm diameter in the upper frame of the windshield. Further down the left side the holes became elongated and irregular, some with the appearance of exit holes. The smaller irregular holes on the side are most likely the result of fragmentation rounds mixed in with armor piercing bullets. Some of these may have bounced off the side and exploaded outside.
The damage to the left wingtip was most likely produced by debris from the cockpit section hitting the wing.
More evidence on our research wiki: List of MH17 airframe parts
A more general question/point here:
In a number of previous discussions it’s been mentioned that the Russian government most likely has conclusive proof of what actually happened but for whatever reasons they haven’t gone public with this. Many suggest that they’re trying to use this as some sort of leverage.
But to be honest, given recent events, it’s hard to see that they have much in the way of leverage vis-a-vis the NATO powers.
It’s true that the official US government intelligence spokespeople were forced to backpedal in terms of their official certainty regarding responsibility, but the government and media alike continue to smear Russia and the financial warfare and saber-rattling has only escalated.
So again, it’s hard to see much in the way of Russian leverage at play.
OTOH, had the Russian government quickly come forward with evidence proving the Junta’s guilt then this could have been a real game changer in the information war.
The Junta’s criminal insanity would have been exposed for all the world to see.
So the real question then is why didn’t they/haven’t they done this?
For blackmail/leverage which seems to be bearing little real fruit (at least of yet)?
Simply due to a very incompetent communications/PR establishment in Moscow?
Or some other reason?…
What “CDN” stands for?
The report provides excellent and thorough coverage of the potential sites for a Buk launch.
A few comments:
I believe the Russians have stated that the Buk system is designed to explode above the target so the target would show fragmentation on its upper surfaces.
The warhead of the Buk also fragments into cubes so the apertures in the target would be angular rather than oval (assuming cannon fire or fragmentation of air-to-air missile).
Some of the surviving fragments of debris (especially in the cockpit area) appear to show scorching in the vicinity of the shrapnel damage. Other fragments lacking shrapnel damage show no scorching.
The report should consider Buk, cannon fire and air-to-air missiles as potential causes for the multiple instances of shrapnel damage.
Finally, many thanks to the author for taking the time to analyze this important tragedy.
What you are implying is premeditation. Overlapping buk radar systems in an area and changing MH17’s course to match the area of coverage. Since this entire thing is orchestrated by al ciada I find it amazing they can be so blatant. I been watching things for more than a decade now and have seen a lot of things they have done but nothing this bad. I mean in the incompetence required. For such an important op, al ciada would not have let operations be controlled by rookies. If you looked at other situations, Always, always controllers would be very close by watching. Although they never do it directly. But they are there to make sure its not totally pucked up. and most clusterfuks are done on purpose even if we dont know the reason. We already know Kiev wants to control the situation hence their desperation to capture the area even after the UN said to not fight in a 40km area around the crash site. This almost sounds like an internal squabble like when they bought in a suicide bomber into a meeting in Afghanistan and he took out most of the controllers in the area. Highly doubtful it would have happened without help.
CDN,
Excellent.
I am not sure of some of the facts we begin with.
What if the plane was a lot lower than we are told? Do we have certain radar proof in hand that it was at the elevation we are told?
Certainly the BUK was in the operational control of the Ukies. You seem to have disproven any other possibility.
I would have liked to have every good photograph of the important parts of the plane as part of the presentation. I think images would be very helpful to enhance the argument you make. Suggestion: include photos of the parts of the plane you talk about. You can even use photo images of the plane before the tragedy rather than just your schematics.
How about the Russian experts not yet allowed to the scene by the Dutch? Isn’t that a very smelly and suspicious matter?
In the US the authorities take all the plane parts and reassemble the carcass as best they can to reconstruct the plane. Will this be done with this crash? And would that help your theory?
Thanks again for an very clear and thoughtful presentation.Your contribution in the hunt for the truth is invaluable.
who is CDN?
Russia has all the necessary data obviously but it would do no good to release them prematurely to the western Zionazi MSM before the black boxes finally has been tampered with by the NATO powers and presented in a major politicized MSM hullabaloo, or buried indefinitely depending on US estimates on what damage released, real Russian facts can do to their case.
This “investigation” will probably go on as long as the political trial at the NATO kangaroo court in the Hague against Vojislav Šešelj, who surrendered voluntarily in February 2003, has been waiting for a verdict with no proof of any NATO accusations presented so far. But it has successfully withheld him from challenging the US imposed quisling cult running the show in Belgrade…
Mikhas.
This proverbial ‘stone’ had to kill many a bird at once:
1) Punish Malaysia [a Muslim country] for being so vocal about Israel’s [aka the Apartheid State] crimes against humanity, by targeting its national carrier [see Pan Am] 2x [MH370 + MH17].
2) Distract the world from the upcoming Apartheid State’s invasion of Gaza and the ensuing killing and slaughter [within a few hours of the downing of MH17]
3) Blame the ‘separatists/terrorists’ in the Donbas for downing MH17 and receive ‘world’s approval’ to unleash all heel on those ‘beasts.’
4) Blame Russia as a proven liar and recidivist [KAL 007] for downing or assisting in downing another plane and receive the ‘world’s approval’ to unleash economic hell on ‘those beasts.’
5) Get the Dutch to stop being a swing vote and properly support US/Apartheid State sanctions
6) Keep the MIC properly lubricated
A plan was devised, rather hastily and thus prone to mistakes.
1) Wait for a Malaysian plane, loaded with mainly Dutch passengers to pass through Ukrainian airspace
2) Come up with a bogus reason to divert MH17’s flight path to pass right over the ‘rebel held’ area and close enough to the Russian border [see 4 above]
3) Compartmentalize the entire operation [left hand has no clue what the right hand is doing]
4) Bring MH17 down with an AtA missile and lit up the cockpit with SU-25 30mm cannons to prevent any messages or mayday calls from being sent out [I guess someone figured out the plane wouldn’t cease to exist at once]
5) Have as ‘Plan B’ 3 BUK missile system ready in case the plane doesn’t come down as planned
I’m sure the plan was for MH17 to crash-land in Russia, to make sure that whatever was found/heard on the black boxes could and would be dismissed as ‘Russian tempering and propaganda.’
Additionally:
1) use the lull in fighting to gain more ground [Kiev Fascists]
2) delay the passage of investigators to search the crash site [Kiev Fascists]
3) start rumors about ‘tempering’ with evidence’ [Kiev Fascists]
4) provide bogus evidence ‘proving’ they did it [Kiev Fascists]
5) claim victory where there is none [Kiev Fascists]
Losers in all this: the ordinary citizens who lose their lives, limbs and livelihoods.
I forgot:
6) tell the pilots they’re going to shoot down Russian PM Putin [that must be the equivalent of Herr Hitler flying over the south of England]. This would explain the rumor about Putin and his plane.
Louis said…
What “CDN” stands for?
Its stand for Content Distribution Network.
Respect privacy, the data provided has value on its own merit.
There’s no section labeled “Section 5” and no explanation as far as I can see. Missing part of the PDF?
@ Daniel Rich:
Absolutely brilliant!
One thing has damaged the reputation of the resistance: the absolutely idiotic remarks of Strelkov about the dead bodies, something which was easily refuted by the passengers list.
The media have used this to discredit.
Here is my analysis of what happened:
http://deepresource.wordpress.com/2014/08/05/speculations-about-what-happened-to-mh17/
Conclusions at the bottom.
Kind regards,
Dutch
Highly pertinent:
19:12 July 29, 2014 Interfax Chief of the Russian Land Forces’ tactical air defense troops Maj. Gen. Mikhail Krush said he doubts that the Malaysian passenger liner was brought down by a Buk surface-to-air missile system. “No one observed a Buk engaging targets in that region on that day, which provides 95 percent proof that Buk systems were not used in this concrete case,” the general said in an interview with the Voyenno-Promyshlenny Kuryer military weekly to be published on Wednesday. “This is no more than a theory for now. However, a guided missile launched by a Buk missile system leaves behind a specific smoke trail as it flies, like a comet. In daylight this trail can be clearly seen within a radius of 20-25 kilometers from the missile system. It cannot remain unnoticed. There are no eyewitnesses to confirm there was any. No one reported a launch. This is one thing,” he said. “Second. The holes left by the strike elements on the Boeing’s outer skin indicate that the warhead blew up from below and sideways. A Buk missile strikes the target from above,” he said. “The damage done to the plane suggests that a different missile was used. Our guidance method is a zoom, when the missile strikes the target from above covering it with a thick cloud of fragments” the general said. “I cannot state categorically, guided by this data, but I can suggest, using my experience, that it was not a Buk missile that hit the Boeing,” the expert said. The downing of flight MH17: What ordinary Russians think Asked what was inside of the warhead – cubic or spherical shape charge, Krush said, “neither cubic nor spherical, but something bar-shaped. An expert will identify whether the target was hit by a Buk at first glance examining the traces it leaves. A Buk missile leaves no large holes and does not tear the plane’s outer skin the way we could see on television,” he said. The general said that a concrete answer to the puzzle over who shot down the Boeing could be given after experts in surface-to-air guided missiles examine the scene.
Source: Russia Beyond the Headlines – http://rbth.com/news/2014/07/29/boeings_downing_by_buk_missile_system_unlikely_-_military_expert_38607.html)
Although up close the differences of MH17 and PM Putin’s plane are clearly visible from a distance they look rather alike [wide body/heavy, 4 engines, white background, red, white blue coloring, etc].
There’s a reason why they didn’t choose any of these or these planes, because the difference is too obvious.
All in all, a nice idea, but a bad plan.
Good analysis and much better than anything I have seen to date. You’ve obviously spent considerable time on this effort, which I appreciate. Please note the following comments are intended to be helpful and I hope that I don’t come across too bluntly.
It would be instructive to have a document title and section headings, at least.
I think it would also be very helpful to have a reliable munitions expert provide some analysis of the visible entry/exit holes and whether these are consistent with SAM, A2A or cannon fire. Alternatively, provide links to such analysis.
Your conclusion needs to be clearly stated at the end of the document.
The section dealing with the cartoony image provided by the US really needs to be set out with its own heading and a clear statement that what the US has provided vis-a-vis the image is not credible and does not fit with the much higher quality evidence from other sources.
Drop the comment regarding Saker’s interpretation of the evidence. His views are important, of course. But what does that have to do with your analysis? I’m sure the Saker understands this.
I would suggest dropping the comments about neo-Nazis, US-fueled anti-Putin hysteria, etc. While I agree with you, including them in your document distracts from the main message that it was most likely that Kiev’s troops that shot down MH17 from Shakhtars’k. Critics will quickly point out that you are biased. Your document may garner a wider audience if you leave out these views.
To those asking what CDN stands for: it is also an abbreviation for “Canadian”.
Excellent analysis, but with problems. The same video showing the plane falling from the sky also fails to show any missile trail from the supposed missile, which would have been very evident. No witnesses anywhere have claimed to have seen such a missile trail. No Buk missile trail – no Buk missile.
Secondly, with respect to the so-called bullet holes in the fuselage, the author notes that the holes represent exit ‘wounds’, not bullet entry marks. He does not explain, however, just how these holes can be indented inwards towards the cockpit if they are indeed exit marks.
Thirdly, he does not convince me that an explosive bullet will explode upon impact – I suspect that it would penetrate the hull before exploding and thus would do so within the confines of the cockpit – else how could such a bullet penetrate a tank hull and destroy it?
If it was shrapnel from an exploding missile that we were seeing then I would expect to see more damage to the wing that exhibited a stray ‘bullet’ or piece of shrapnel. Indeed, how could such a path across the wing (implying a path almost horizontal to the plane) have happened at all with a missile that by design explodes above the plane?
Lastly, how can a cubic piece of shrapnel make a perfectly round hole indented inwards towards the cockpit?
“I am getting increasingly frustrated and angry at the fact that clearly the Dutch and the British, obviously under the orders of Uncle Sam, are sitting on the data of the flight data recorders and not releasing them.”
the longer they sit on the results the more obvious it is that KiewE/EU/USA are the culprits
Mass media’s version can only be displaced from the public mind by a brief true assertion. If it is true then razor sharp human intuition will recognise and remember.
CDN, sir, accumulate and collate relevant evidence but only toward that free standing assertion. Whether or not it gets propagated is not your problem.
There’s a PPRuNe.org site that hosts a discussion on MH17 (»MH17 down near Donetsk«). It is mostly fake, designed to keep the BUK hypothesis afloat. Someone posted a link to a GlobalResearch.ca article dismissing the BUK hypothesis and supporting the fighter hypothesis (the post has meanwhile been deleted). I made the following post in reply (05.08.14 around 19:20 MESZ), which has not been admitted:
««« post start »»»
Conclusiveness
GlobalResearch.ca does a good job as a hub for anti MSM prop journalism, but (unfortunately, IMHO) many of the articles they publish exaggerate or do not deliver on their sometimes bombastic headlines. (Of course, they still do better than Western MSM in that regard.)
»Evidence Is Now Conclusive: Two Ukrainian Government Fighter-Jets Shot Down Malaysian Airlines MH17. It was Not a ‘Buk’ Surface to Air Missile«
http://www.globalresearch.ca/evidence-is-now-conclusive-two-ukrainian-government-fighter-jets-shot-down-malaysian-airlines-mh17-it-was-not-a-buk-surface-to-air-missile/5394814
No conclusive evidence is offered for the fighter jet hypothesis. If conclusion, it is ex negativo. It must have been external force, so what else remains?
Because one thing is certain: The BUK missile hypothesis cherished by Western media is dead, and has been dead for weeks now. Summertime, plain daylight, lots of people outside, in the fields, in their garden, harvesting … and no one witnessed a missile launch. If you still believe in the BUK launch please go to Youtube to watch a BUK launch video. It is a spectucalar and noisy event that simply cannot be missed in a typical European rural area. Maybe it could pass unnoticed in the desert of Nevada or Australia, but not in Europe. There would be hundreds or rather thousands of witnesses for the smoke trail.
Buk M1 Lohtaja 09
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cSxjiLzyxE
So all BUK talk is idle at best.
Remains the question of what external force or combination of forces brought the airliner down.
And the mystery of the bloodless and decomposing bodies.
««« post end »»»
==Lumi
Fyi the original source of that piece is Washingtons Blog. No biggie. They are listed as a partner site. Just sayin.
search web on
Boeing anti-terrorism patent
to get details —
which allows remotely taking over a Boeing plane.. Good to keep this capability in mind.
_Blue
Peace, Good friend!
Photographs of the cockpit clearly shows 30mm fighter jet cannon/bullet holes entering and exiting from BOTH sides, implying that the pilot was directly targeted from TWO fighter jets! See link here: http://www.anderweltonline.com/fileadmin/user_upload/PDF/Cockpit-MH017.pdf
Abel – South Africa
Well, CDN has done a very diligent analysis of one issue – unfortunately the one with the lowest probability. Anyway, he deserves a thank you.
There are some factors that in my minds eye don’t get the attention or valuation they deserve.
– Buk and similar systems are designed to destroy *military* aircraft *and missiles*. While they can, of course, destroy airliners, too, that is *not* what they are designed for. Comparably one can fire at a bus using a tank but that is not what tank have been designed for and hence the outcome may disappoint.
– Buk are *not* “a mid range anti-air missile system”. They are high value entity protection mid-range AA missile systems – that is an important difference. As such they are a second line of defense; their job is not to generally protect some mid to large area against air raids, their job is to defend e.g. command centers, Topol/Jars launch site, large mil. groups, etc. and it is assumed that other (e.g. S-300) systems are there to take care of general large area protection.
– Laws of physics. Some entity with 100+ tons mass at a speed of 900 km/h will show certain properties, no matter whether 30mm machine gunned or shot at with a missile. Even a (highly improbable) direct hit of an engine will show quite limited effect regarding the main body of a large airplane.
So harming a boeing 777 enough so as to make it crash is one thing. How far that airplane will go until it hits the ground is another question. Yet another question is aerodynamics; even breaking open a relatively small mid section will dramatically change the airplanes path – and speed.
So, depending on the exact scenario, that airplane may have taken 10km or 30km or even 50km until it hit the ground. If, just assumed, some kind of missile hit an engine and also created “minor” but very significant damage (missile “shrapnel” contra thin aluminum foils *always* creates significant damage) the aerodynamics would almost certainly have changed so as to very much slow down the airplane; quite possibly it would also make it stall, i.e. not being carried by air anymore.
On the other hand, assumptions along the line of the airplane having crashed at an almost 90° angle are hardly credible.
Moreover logic should guide our reflections. *If* ukratine had planned to shoot down MH17 with a buk system they almost certainly wouldn’t have a lot of them around and on top of that with full power radar. However, they did, hence the Buks almost certainly were there for distraction and blaming purposes.
And quite some other factors look quite fishy. A certain netherlands man (corpan or similar) mage a photo with a “funny” remark and that photo quickly gained lots of attention. Even more, it fueled another theory due a confusion (created by that photo) about 9M-MRC vs 9M-MRD and, almost as if a movie director had spiced up a story, that confusion was further fueled by the ‘C’ probably being a ‘D’ with glare on it, etc.
What did Mr. corpan really achieve? That the whole world is following a dead track and ignoring the credible eye witnesses – and a netherlands doctor! – talking of already decomposed corpses in the airplane.
Moreover there are reports that the ukratine ATC that changed MH17 course was *not* a state one but a privately held corp. and guess who’s the owner? Mr. kolomoisky, Satans leutennant in ukratine!
Short, following the Buk track is lost time following a track laid out by ukratine.
Our best chance for truth is Russia, who, however, understandably still holds some cards close to their chest. Well noted in a *winning* game targeting usa’s credibility. I’m afraid, we’ll have to wait a little longer until Russia puts the facts on the table and such finally discredits, accuses, and proves guilty ukratine and usa/cia/ziocons.
Article here: MH-17 was brought doen by TWOI fighter jets firing 300mm cannon from BOTH sides into the cockpit: http://www.globalresearch.ca/evidence-is-now-conclusive-two-ukrainian-government-fighter-jets-shot-down-malaysian-airlines-mh17-it-was-not-a-buk-surface-to-air-missile/5394814
Article here: MH-17 was brought down by TWO fighter jets firing 30mm cannon from BOTH sides into the cockpit: http://www.globalresearch.ca/evidence-is-now-conclusive-two-ukrainian-government-fighter-jets-shot-down-malaysian-airlines-mh17-it-was-not-a-buk-surface-to-air-missile/5394814
Article here: MH-17 was brought down by TWO fighter jets firing 30mm cannon from BOTH sides into the cockpit: http://www.globalresearch.ca/evidence-is-now-conclusive-two-ukrainian-government-fighter-jets-shot-down-malaysian-airlines-mh17-it-was-not-a-buk-surface-to-air-missile/5394814
Peace, Good friend!
Photographs of the cockpit clearly shows 30mm fighter jet cannon/bullet holes entering and exiting from BOTH sides, implying that the pilot was directly targeted from TWO fighter jets! See link here: http://www.anderweltonline.com/fileadmin/user_upload/PDF/Cockpit-MH017.pdf
Abel – South Africa
Peace, Good friend!
Photographs of the cockpit clearly shows 30mm fighter jet cannon/bullet holes entering and exiting from BOTH sides, implying that the pilot was directly targeted from TWO fighter jets! See link here: http://www.anderweltonline.com/fileadmin/user_upload/PDF/Cockpit-MH017.pdf
Abel – South Africa
There are Many Americans who are Investigative Journalists, who know what really happened.
There is a Video made by an American Investigative Journalist who says that Ukraine is Responsible for the crash of the Passenger Plane, and the Video is Titled: Russian Proof Ukraine Staged Malaysian Jet To Start WW3 at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruyZWtvU6Tg .
There is a Video that says that it provides Evidence that the Ukrainian Airforce shot down what is known as MH 17, and which is said by some People to be another Passenger Plane, and the Video is Titled: PROOF MH17 SHOT DOWN BY UKRAINE FIGHTERS – MH17 FALSE FLAG at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMFfBsxug0U&list=UU3xHAfZZqbMMWjc1ed1ajow .
There is another Video which says that Crisis Actors are used for the MH 17 Flase Flag, and the Video is Titled: MH17 FALSE FLAG – CRISIS ACTORS COMPLETELY REVEALED at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZoDs6FgIsk .
Many British People want British Politicians and British Journalists, to do their Utmost to Prevent a nuclear holocaust and to Prevent WW 3.
There are Many People who think that the Scottish People Have A Special Responsibility at this Time in History, and that they must Indicate that they want these things to be the Main Referendum Issues by Voting in Favour of Independence from an Evil Regime in London, and so get on Scottish Talk Back Radio and Whatever Else It Takes, and Let Them Know what the Main Referendum Issues are for the Independence Referendum.
There are some Websites that say that the Passenger Plane which crashed in Eastern Ukraine was the Malaysian Plane MH 370 that disappeared earlier this year, and which is said to have been landed at the American Military Base at Diego Garcia http://topinfopost.com/2014/07/26/mh-17-was-in-fact-flight-mh-370-lost-flight , and at http://humansarefree.com/2014/07/yes-mh-17-is-missing-mh-370.html .
We can see the Quality of the Investigations that America Conducts, and the type of Collusion by the Western Mainstream Media, and one example is the United 93 crash site in Shanksville Pennsylvania where the impossible is corruptly presented as what happened at http://sherriequestioningall.blogspot.com.au/2014/07/what-is-wrong-with-these-pictures.html .
Another example of the impossible that is corruptly presented as what happened is the Building 7 Collapse, which it is Obvious that it was a controlled demolition, and Osama bin Laden could not have set that up at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mamvq7LWqRU .
We can see that if Americans and others could ever be able to trust the American Government on what really happened to the Passenger Plane MH 17 in Eastern Ukraine, then President Barack Obama needs to Confess that regardless of what Osama bin Laden has done, that Osama bin Laden is Innocent of the September 11 attacks of 2001 on America, because that was done by Influential American Citizens.
There are Many Videos that Prove this, and they are Titled: Flight 175 rare video- proof of 9 11 no plane hoax at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZQmow6X0ic , and Conclusive Evidence the 9/11 Planes were NOT REAL at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUoqwUVOxHE , and The Best 9-11 Documentary ++ Media Cover-Up ++ No Planes at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dslF-hh90lg .
There are Many Impartial Independent Investigative Journalists who Know that Honesty and Decency have No Place in the Psychopathic Anglo-American Narratives or Conduct, and this is seen with Many Impartial News Articles on this matter.
If possible, please provide a link directly to a PDF download. Tor browser w/Java disabled cannot view or download the content from either of the provided links.
Some people wanted to see pictures..
here are all that was found on google..
http://acloserlookonsyria.shoutwiki.com/wiki/List_of_MH17_airframe_parts
As you can see, the cockpit was shreded and thats the strongest part of the plane and not much is left of it. Which shows why there was no mayday. So when they said the flight recorder did not say anything, the cockpit got clobbered right away so you would hear a pop and boom and static. All the wires would have got cut in that second as well.
Hi, would you mind explaining why switzerland would have data from the recorders? I am a newbie to this particular field and am wondering why they would have it.
Thanks much.
l
Saker:
Thank you for publishing this. I have been saying the same thing this report concludes here on your site for over two weeks, as the ballistic trajectory of the falling plane and the range of the BUK were both obvious to anyone with rudimentary math in ruling out the south of Snizhne launch site at Pervomaiskyi as being out of range.
The angle of attack of the missile is easily deduced from the leftside cockpit window fragment and wing – the trajectory is clear on the marks on the metal.
The emplacement of the BUK system south of Shakhtersk allows the US to claim it was in “rebel held” territory via the misleading “frontline” maps spread over the internet, even though the rebels don’t hold territory, they operate roadside checkpoints and garrison cities and towns, protecting the countryside with covering mortar/artillery fire.
The choice of MH17 was obvious, allowing an extension of the MH370 saga, discrediting Maylasia, and killing the “right” sort of people – no Americans, but lots of Dutch and Australians – two countries that were a bit wobbly on opposing Russia and China respectively due to business interests.
The means of accomplishing mass murder were by having Ukraine perform “air defense exercises”. The poor man who launched the missile could be counted on to think he was just taking part in training right up until the moment he (accidentally for himself, on purpose for the person organizing it) launched a missile. It also allowed guidance from above in choosing the target to be painted (MH17). The purpose of the SU-25(‘s?) in the exercise was to simulate multiple aircraft vectoring in for an attack.
The Russians have released enough information to show they have all the goods on what happened, including pointedly satellite photos of the actual emplacement that fired the missile and the military radar tracks and entire air defense set-up of eastern Ukraine on 7/17. They are witholding the rest of their information until the west produces a report on the accident from the Black Boxes and such. If the report is a tissue of lies, they will release more information.
The whole set-up still leaves the Ukrainian State an out – “whoops, we actually did fire a missile during an exercise – sorry about that!” Just like Siberian Air 1812.
To the author of the report, I suggest two corrections. The alleged location of the rebel BUK is south of Pobeda and north of Saur Mogila and on the west side of road T-05-22 at Pervomaiskyi. Your dot on the map makes it look like it is at Saur Mogila. The Ukraine @ War blog gives the precise location they claim the rebels fired from and I believe the SBU has formally endorsed this claim by providing coordinates. Also, the Russian radar track of MH17 was provided showing the plane travelling on airway L-69 over Donetsk and then diverting northeast towards Gorlivka to join airway L-980. The coordinates provided by Flightradar24 and the like are interpolations based on the flight plan, not actualy goelocated coordinates, as the transponder system they use does not have coverage over eastern Ukraine.
Well it pretty much eliminates Putin of any involvement as my crazy lunatic Gov has been accusing since moments after the plane was shot down!
US Government owes Mr Putin a public apology!!
About corpan…. he posted the picture of mh17, shortly before takeoff in Amsterdam:
http://niburu.co/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8186:mh17-het-verhaal-van-de-vreemde-cor-pan-foto-heeft-een-staartje&catid=20:het-complot&Itemid=33
Chris Bollyn has a theory about the picture:
http://bollyn.com/#article_14814
I have no opinion about it, but I am very open for the Zionist angle of it all…. kolomoisky, Amsterdam airport security being run by ICTS, an Israeli-shin bet related opereration and stronly implicated in 9/11.
Kind regards,
Dutch
Epic speech on Israel by Senator David Norris (Ireland)
Israel Knesset
Israeli Support Of Genocide
UK Parliament
One
Two
Though in the end their governments are Zionists, at least some of the members of parliament aren’t. Can’t say the same for the US. Total Zionist.
Quoting “Mr. Pragma”, 06 August, 2014 10:07 :
»Our best chance for truth is Russia, who, however, understandably still holds some cards close to their chest. Well noted in a *winning* game targeting usa’s credibility. I’m afraid, we’ll have to wait a little longer until Russia puts the facts on the table …«
While I agree with your post, I would’t bet on Russia ever putting the facts on the table, at least not for the general public in an official declaration.
There is a book called »Incident at Sakhalin: The True Mission of KAL Flight 007« published in 1995. Well worth reading. It makes a convincing case KAL-007 was not shot down near Sakhaline, but much further South, off the West coast of Honshu.
The debris located near Sakhaline are the remains of a US spy mission, which got slaughtered there.
The book is based on original research by the author (a Frenchman speaking Japansese) on Japanese beaches, in Japanese archives and with Japanese experts.
It also analyzes what the Soviets and then later the Yeltsin government did and said.
I mention this because what the Soviets/Russians released contained enough clues to allow experts and the Korean government to conclude the Western story can’t be true, but it’s not the smoking gun type of evidence that would allow the general public to understand.
I think that kind of knowledge is used as assets in negotiations that will never be public.
Specs on SH25 from well UKROBORONSERVICE is a state enterprise which major activity is the realization of state interests of Ukraine in the field of export / import of products, military-technical and special-purpose services.
http://en.uos.ua/produktsiya/aviakosmicheskaya-tehnika/84-cy-25
Max combat height 5000m
Practical ceiling, 7000-10000m
So it can easily do 10KM.. Might be real cold up there though and hard to breathe.. Bet it can go higher until the piclot runs of air to breath and the engines cut off..
CDN stand probably for Canadian.
I can attest that PPRUN did not publish 3 posts that I wrote about MH17. Well, I’m a newcomer there and their site is directed generally to prof. pilots. But they tend to stick US propaganda…
MH17 downing isn’t a sole Ukrainian operation. It was coordinated by the US/ISR. From my readings, first shot from A-A missile frag rod from behind left at an angle (R-60 or equivalent shot by SU-27-29) through the left wing and trough left engine cole:
Plane abruptly goes left, the pilot tries to land in emergency to Rostov on Don (Russ. Int. airport), the plan by the aggressors was that the plane should have landed near the UKR/RUSS border as to get all the attention to the crash so that the liberation of the large contingent of UKR soldiers trapped in the cauldron. Since the first shot didn’t succeeded in this objective, a S-A Long range missile (S-200 or
equivalent was shot killing the plane. SU-25 was there only to certify the killing.
Russia knows, US knows, time passes and nothing is being publicly transmitted about the recorders that have been said in good shape. I think that they are preparing the rehearsal for the public… We are in war globally , just escalating gradually as the grand promoters wants it.
The Real Axis of Evil: United States, Israel, and Saudi Arabia
Best regards,
Mohamed.
The problem with 30mm cannon fire is the holes that it makes. I seen pictures of fighter planes hit with such cannons and they shred the skin and not the neat holes we saw like it was made from gun fire. Explosive bullets do go through the skin before exploding so those holes could be from them. Very little of the cockpit remains compared to the rest of the aircraft so that was the point of impact. Was the cockpit reinforcement strong enough that it did not get shreded by 30mm cannon fire? Fighter planes which got hit by that showed similar trauma to what would happen to humans if hit by high caliber weapons. IE you dont need to hit a human to kill him, the bullet passing between 2 people would kill them both without touching them. Ah the information you gather while watching iraq war.ru.. So they could have used smaller caliber weapons? modified polish design? Also a small manpad missile strike on a warthog showed very similar damage as we see on that part of the surviving cockpit. So it could have been an A2A fired from the SU25.. Without real close analysis from experts we have nothing concrete to go on here. Other than the narrative told by the US/EU is not plausable.
Mr. Pragma cuts to the chase as usual–any links re. the dutch doctor talking about decomposed corpses? I guessed that these corpses were being brought to Australia for the AIDS conference, but there has been no confirmation on that. As Orlov says, the western discussion of this is largely fact-free.
Also, sources for the reports that Kolomoisky owns Ukraine ATC?
I’d like to second the comments made above by ‘Frustrated Canadian’,especially the final paragraph:
“I would suggest dropping the comments about neo-Nazis, US-fueled anti-Putin hysteria, etc. While I agree with you, including them in your document distracts from the main message that it was most likely that Kiev’s troops that shot down MH17 from Shakhtars’k. Critics will quickly point out that you are biased. Your document may garner a wider audience if you leave out these views.”
http://deepresource.wordpress.com/2014/08/06/r-60-missile-damage/
More food for thought.
There has been a Boeing hit by a R-60 in the past, with non-catastropic result.
Kind regards,
Dutch
The US has already declared war on Russia in multiple ways.
One of them — a particularly blatant one because it is so low-life — is organizing a sloppy false flag operation and blaming them for it with a straight face.
@Lumi
I generally agree with. However, I think we shouldn’t assume Russias behaviour today can be simply deduce from how one acted 20 years ago and in a very weak position.
More importantly (as I have elaborated in another post) I’m convinced that the usa *seems* to be the aggressor and in some way is that, however, the usa also is in an increasingly defensive position in another fight that Russia started reacting extremely smartly to the fact that usa’s real major weapon isn’t sanctions or military but simply media/PR/propaganda. Russia now follows a strategy (that can be observed in many situations) of unmasking the usa as a chronical liar, faker, and betrayer.
The military HQ news conference (presenting some hard facts about the MH017 tragedy) was just the 1st part.
Let me put it like this: Putin is a judoka – and that’s how Russia plays it, they use the opponents energy to break him. In the current case this is to allow the usa (within certain limits) to boldly go ahead with their lies and propaganda and to then unmask them brutally in one big punch.
This has the additional advantage of offering the european vassals a chance to distance themselves from the then unmasked pariah usa.
@Cu Chulainn
I’m here to read and to share what I think and know – not to present a case at court. So kindly forgive me for not properly collecting, managing, and writing down every little bit of info I find so as to prove what I say.
It’s hard to find the truth in between all the lies and propaganda but I try and I apply some critical questioning before accepting some info I come across.
Being at that: I do not know whether kolomoisky (may that scumbag die a long, painful death and suffocate in his excrements) own “the ukratine ATC”; From what I know he does own at least the (one) ATC (at Dnipropetrovsk, “his” city) that was in charge.
@Dutch 12:54
Careful! One can not reasonably deduct from one such case to another. There are way to many factors involved. As a general rule of thumb it’s certainly reasonable to assume that such a missile usually is extremely harmful if not deadly for a civil aircraft.
Here are the pictures that are from a SAM hit on n A10 warthog.
http://rinf.com/alt-news/editorials/5-august-even-certain-now-obamas-ukrainian-stooges-intentionally-malaysian-airliner/
More MH17 damage pics..
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/mh17-evidence-a-missile-was-used-shrapnel-etc.3997/
http://i0.wp.com/www.rumormillnews.com/pix7/mh17cockpithit.jpg?w=615
It is difficult to figure out. Check out hires pic of Cockpit central window frame and copilots seat. Damage behind pilot seat. Pilot and seat were shreded. But cockpit door was undamaged.
http://acloserlookonsyria.shoutwiki.com/wiki/List_of_MH17_airframe_parts
So we can definetly say the rebels did not shoot up the debris! The damage WAS done by cannons or missiles as they all appear around the Pilot. Part of cannopy above the cockpit was found 8KM away so blown off right away when hit unlike other debris.
Some groups of impacts have regularities. I doubt shrapnel is statistically able to produce regularities such as :
— 5 impacts in a line, quasi-regularly spaced (Photo 1) ; the second impact of the serie (from the top-left) seems to show that these impacts are incoming
— 5 other impacts in a slightly curved line, quasi-regularly spaced (Photo 2)
Conclusion : cannon has almost certainly been used.
Some groups of impacts have regularities. I doubt shrapnel is statistically able to produce regularities such as :
— 5 impacts in a line, quasi-regularly spaced (Photo 1) ; the second impact of the serie (from the top-left) seems to show that these impacts are incoming
— 5 other impacts in a slightly curved line, quasi-regularly spaced (Photo 2)
Conclusion : cannon has almost certainly been used.
Dearest Nora,
“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
1. Where did these new slaves (the children) come from?
2. Whose children they are?
3. Where are their parents?
4. Did their parents allowed them to leave them?
5. Who gathered these masses and brought them to the border?
Of course, Russia has closed off any more adoption to USA due to massive abuses. The biggest one being pedophile and whoredom.
The beautiful and cute children will be sold into white slavery (whoredom), the rest will be sold in abusive adoptions.
Best regards,
Mohamed.
Yes, cut out the bias comments in your bias report…
geezzzz
The depth of mistrust of the MSM version is the only really reliable fact to emerge from this discussion so far.
The current Ebola is another operation, it prepares the ground for nuclear terror false flags. Just as anthrax was introduced in the wake of 9/11. Expect nothing but escalation from the US. I’m glad that the people of the world have the Russian Federation on their side, maybe some day a lot more will wake up and realize that, if they’re still alive.
@Josh
“In a number of previous discussions it’s been mentioned that the Russian government most likely has conclusive proof of what actually happened but for whatever reasons they haven’t gone public with this. Many suggest that they’re trying to use this as some sort of leverage.”
Maybe. I’d say the most likely is either
1) Russia has something to hide also e.g. Russian citizens fighting with the rebels that could be used against them in the media, and so their hands are a little tied.
2) There’s circumstantial evidence of electronic warfare which may be confusing the issue or may be leading Russia to not admit how much they’ve got figured out.
a) A NATO electronic warfare exercise in June led to aircraft dropping off radar screens.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/15/us-europe-airplanes-safety-idUSKBN0EQ12J20140615
b) US spy planes have been buzzing Russian airspace.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-spy-plane-brush-russian-military-crosses-sweden/story?id=24835126
c) Ukraine ATC lost radio contact with MH17 and asked an Air India airliner that was near MH17 to try and contact them but they got no reply either.
http://www.news24.com/Travel/Flights/Air-India-plane-only-90-seconds-away-from-MH17-tried-to-make-contact-20140721
#
What I wonder is if the NATO exercise was to test how a spy plane could be electronically stealthed into Russian airspace and somehow that led to MH17 getting jammed effecting both it’s radio and maybe its IFF transponder as well (which is what marks it as a civilian aircraft).
@Cu Culain
“Also, sources for the reports that Kolomoisky owns Ukraine ATC?”
My understanding is the main Ukraine ATC is in Kiev but at the time of the attack MH17 was in the region controlled out of Dnepropetrovsk i.e. Kolomosiky’s region.
What about the report that the plane, when first hit, did a 180 degree turn, and not a continuing forward, though altered, flight path as it fell and crashed?
I think this information may be based on the final position on the ground indicating a change in direction.
But, is any of this actual?
What I always try to challenge in an investigation of an event are the facts. Challenge the authenticity of each and every “known” fact.
Can anything about the flight be proven?
Do we begin with the “facts” or do we begin with the “reported facts”?
What corroboration of each fact of the flight do we have?
Altitude. Direction. Speed. Recognition from the ground observers.
We talk about “sounds” heard by ordinary citizens. That is very ether-like and faulty-prone evidence.
Really, we should begin with the plane parts on the ground and we can see these in reality and in photos from many sources.
Then come up with the aviation and military weapons experts who can agree on what happened to put the plane and its damages into the final resting places in the manner they are found.
Thus, reconstruct backwards up into the air, up to the conditions that account for the resulting tragedy.
Fact, Source, Corroboration.
This presentation does a remarkable job. However, I’m not convinced by it.
I think we can be certain the story will never be known with certainty.
This is a criminal conspiracy and culpable persons before, during and after reach across several nations. Lies have been told by leaders of nations regarding this. The coverup will be forever.
It’s like JFK. 50 years and the lid is still on. It was a coup, and the lid is still on. 9/11 may well be another inside job. Certainly, we don’t know the whole truth. But the lid is on.
Don’t expect the truth, justice or recompense.
Evil is running amok, and all we can do is confront the regime of satanists as best we can.
@Josh
“In a number of previous discussions it’s been mentioned that the Russian government most likely has conclusive proof of what actually happened but for whatever reasons they haven’t gone public with this. Many suggest that they’re trying to use this as some sort of leverage.”
Maybe. I’d say the most likely is either
1) Russia has something to hide also e.g. Russian citizens fighting with the rebels that could be used against them in the media, and so their hands are a little tied.
2) There’s circumstantial evidence of electronic warfare which may be confusing the issue or may be leading Russia to not admit how much they’ve got figured out.
a) A NATO electronic warfare exercise in June led to aircraft dropping off radar screens.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/15/us-europe-airplanes-safety-idUSKBN0EQ12J20140615
b) US spy planes have been buzzing Russian airspace.
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/us-spy-plane-brush-russian-military-crosses-sweden/story?id=24835126
c) Ukraine ATC lost radio contact with MH17 and asked an Air India airliner that was near MH17 to try and contact them but they got no reply either.
http://www.news24.com/Travel/Flights/Air-India-plane-only-90-seconds-away-from-MH17-tried-to-make-contact-20140721
#
What I wonder is if the NATO exercise was to test how a spy plane could be electronically stealthed into Russian airspace and somehow that led to MH17 getting jammed effecting both it’s radio and maybe its IFF transponder as well (which is what marks it as a civilian aircraft).
@Cu Culain
“Also, sources for the reports that Kolomoisky owns Ukraine ATC?”
My understanding is the main Ukraine ATC is in Kiev but at the time of the attack MH17 was in the region controlled out of Dnepropetrovsk i.e. Kolomosiky’s region.
What is the reason to keep on wasting time upon the BUK missile theory?
The airline was downed from air, take it to the bank, and an Ukrainian fighter jet(s) was the material executor. It’s that simple (and everybody knows it, I would add)!
“Experts believe that the ukrainian fighter Su-25 fired an air-to-air missile at the passenger liner, and then “finished off” it with a shot from a 30 mm gun, writes the newspaper New Straits Times”. http://ria.ru/world/20140806/1019014818.html
I suggested before, you tube site,
livingonplanetz . Suggesting NO crash. Debris field is MH370 dragged from near buildings.This was an elaborate psy-op like Sandy Hook and Boston bombing hoax. Info provided on radar fakery as well.
all the discussion is about the plane. I’m interested in the passengers – where are all the interviews with grieving families? Where are the endless HufPoo stories of funerals? Who was on that plane? Have I missed all the stories? Perhaps I’ve been living under a rock here.
The analysis provides invaluable info on the flight path and in showing how a Novorussian launched Buk would have been out of range for both detecting the airliner and that of the missile itself. There are also many other details in it I have not seen before. Very useful piece of work. The area I would criticise is the description of the causes of the aircraft’s damage.
“Any incendiary cannon fire that reached the cockpit area would likely have ignited a fire.”
There is nothing to really fuel a fire in the cockpit. And the 900 km airstream would put out anything but a bulk fuel fire there.
The speculation of exit holes in the recovered nose sections.
I find this unconvincing given the photos available of possible damage. The nose of the airliner has a double skin, which can clearly be seen in the photos. This is reinforcement against bird strikes.
The damage to these skin layers in the photos shows the outer skin blown outward, giving the appearance of an exit hole, but the holes underneath in the inner skin uniformly show the skin is pushed inwards, looking like entrance holes. Additionally, around the rim of the inner skin holes there is a discolouration which looks very much like the gouging or scraping one sees in the rim of an entrance hole where the projectiles scraped the edge of the metal as it passed through. See this close up:
http://www.shoutwiki.com/w/images/acloserlookonsyria/4/4f/MH17_cockpit_left_side_hole_closeup.jpg
One will notice that around the rim of the inner skin holes, the discolouration looks like metal was removed from the surface. Also notice how the surface of the outer skin is pockmarked with many small gouges. That looks like blast damage from many small shards – shrapnel. The inner skin holes themselves are not uniform in size of shape, either, which probably discounts the theory of these being caused by cannon fire. See:
http://www.shoutwiki.com/w/images/acloserlookonsyria/5/52/MH17_left_cockpit_panel.jpg
Since the holes are on the port side, are irregular shaped, and discounting they are exit holes, this means a missile warhead exploding on the port side. The starboard side and the front of the cockpit appear to have been completely destroyed. That could be from a missile blast, the airstream tearing the already damaged nose apart after the blast[s] or ground impact or any combination of.
There is evidence of pieces of the cockpit area having been blown off well before the airliner struck the ground. Both the following links describe the dispersion of debris:
http://acloserlookonsyria.shoutwiki.com/wiki/List_of_MH17_airframe_parts
http://graphics.wsj.com/mh17-crash-map/?standalone=1
So it seems pretty clear the cockpit and nose disintegrated probably immediately after the strike[s] with large sections of the forward part being torn off probably by the force of the 900 km airstream.
The main reason I doubt it was a Buk that brought the airliner down is that, as others have noted, no credible witness account of seeing the smoke trail from a Buk missile, and this should have been seen by many people. The following video shows several Buk launches, and in one launch follows the missile for many seconds as it reaches height and explodes near a target.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSXMhaFntrU
That also raises another objection to a Buk missile. The warhead explosion of which is large and the smoke from such a blast would likely be seen from the ground.
вот так
all the discussion is about the plane. I’m interested in the passengers – where are all the interviews with grieving families? Where are the endless HufPoo stories of funerals? Who was on that plane? Have I missed all the stories? Perhaps I’ve been living under a rock here. The BUK shoot seems to me like a shiny object to turn our heads to.
Is the media wall starting to crack a bit? Yes, they’re all duking it out behind the scenes, but rarely are We The People allowed to see any of it, right? But here is Newsweek, of all publications, actually focusing in some detail on Greenwald’s accusations against Israel. Even the headline is rather amazing:
http://www.newsweek.com/israel-flagged-top-spy-threat-us-new-snowdennsa-document-262991?utm_content=buffera2144&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Everyone in power knows what happened to MH17. The Russians are not showing their hand for very good reason–why let the CIA know what you have so they can falsify around it or, better, muddy the water. Rest assured they are assessing the posted article and figuring out exactly what they might need to fiddle with.
When “someone” using “some kind of missile defense” shot down 4 ballistic missiles shot by Kiev into a populated area “their” cards were on the table. But that was necessary. Talk is cheap
AntiNWO,
thank you for the excellent links.
I will share them.
The one titled:”Two” under UK Parliament could not be opened.
Please post again. I am very interested in watching it.
Thank you.
Here is Miko Peled a righteous Jew and the son of an Israeli General speaking in RT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SuuCa3CiXY
I suspect the Ukrainians are behind the downing of the airliner. There’s consistency in it. Remember that the Maidan snipers (according to the Estonian foreign minister and others) deliberately shot and killed both police and anti-government protesters. In their fanatical minds, the murder of those on their own side was a sacrifice worth making if it advanced their cause. Likewise, the murder of nearly 300 innocent airline passengers was a sacrifice worth making if it advanced their cause.
I think MH17 was shot down by air to air missiles, not a Buk or by cannon fire, and the following is why.
Carlos (the ATC) wrote that a couple of Ukrainian aircraft were near the airliner when it disappeared, but he didn’t say how near. My guess those aircraft were shadowing MH17 and perhaps passing the location data on to the Su-25 flying low down below the airliner. A MiG-29 or Su-27 could easily track an airliner from dozens of miles away. Maybe they told the Su-25 pilot when to “pop up” and run his attack?
The other thing is the attacking Su-25 “popped up” in front of, and probably somewhat below the airliner. That means the cockpit of the airliner could have been sprayed with shrapnel from an incoming R-60, or two, and or it could have been hit from the Su-25’s 30mm cannon. But at 3-4 km, an airliner cockpit is a rather small target to reliably hit with cannon and hole pattern and lack of uniform sizes, seems to rule out cannon fire.
It’s my guess the Su-25 was stationed so as to intercept MH17’s flight path and was being directed by the shadowing fighters, or ground control, or both. At the right moment, the Su-25 was instructed to gain altitude, so as to come up in front and below the airliner, and out of sight from the latter’s cockpit.
The warhead of the R-60, though “small”, can do quite a bit of damage. In 1978 a KAL Boeing 707 was hit by one of these. It blew off the outer part of the port wing:
http://his.img.pravda.com/images/doc/1/8/1802b86-0.jpg
And sent shrapnel through the side of the fuselage:
http://his.img.pravda.com/images/doc/8/e/8e0894a-3.jpg
http://his.img.pravda.com/images/doc/6/9/699ef82-6.jpg
Incidentally, in the latter photo from inside the cabin, one can see the shrapnel hole is round and looks like a cannon or bullet hole. Also that the rim around the hole is pushed out, not in, as in the holes in the inner skin of MH17 are. That is how those holes in MH17 should have looked like, if they were exit holes.
From the damage to the wing of the KAL 707 it looks like the missile exploded well outboard off the wing and the shrapnel reaching the fuselage traveled quite a distance. Had one or two of these missiles exploded near the nose of MH17, they similarly could have caused that sort of catastrophic damage to the nose and cockpit. Together with the airstream, this could have caused the forward part of the aircraft to disintegrate while the airliner was still in the air.
вот так
@Cú Chulaind ( Irish for “Culand’s Hound”, correct?)
YES,Oligarch Igor Kolomoisky owns one of Ukraine’s major
television’s channel…here listen to it for yourself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG7IQy0SbKc
This is Kolomoisky:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG7IQy0SbKc
http://www.voltairenet.org/article183839.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U483vkT5tJA
@Mr. Pragam,
Thank you for your great post and you are absolutely correct …
That disgusting Zionist Kolomisky does indeed own one of the major Ukraine’s tv channels…here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG7IQy0SbKc
@Petri Krohn
Doesn’t a frontal attack run the risk of the pilots shouting something like “he’s shooting at us!” and getting picked up on tape?
First, many thanks to CDN for his analysis (and to Saker for yours as well). I was able to access the second link and the format reads very well to someone nontechnical like me.
I will now see what others more knowledgeable have to say here – and I would compliment both the blog techs and the contributors as this is one site where there is lots to be learned from the comments as well as the posters of articles and links. I thank all for doing this.
I am coming to the realization that we must have a revamped UN that can supervise both Ukraine and Gaza as they are two sides of the same despotic coin. The UN must be able to function as an arm of the peoples of the world with much less emphasis on the Big Boys and more on countries whose very existence is at stake.
http://niqnaq.wordpress.com/2014/08/06/return-to-novorossiya/
[…] The Usaian military operates with an annual budget that exceeds the combined budgets of all other military forces worldwide. […] In addition to overhead imagery available from reconnaissance satellites and from a drone squadron reported to be operating in Ukraine, the Usaian military also fields satellites with infrared detectors as part of the Defense Support Program. These IR sensitive satellites are expressly designed to give immediate warning of any missile launches. These satellites are reported to be sufficiently sensitive that they are able to detect hot spots within forest fires. Despite these various advanced technical capabilities the only imagery released by the Usaian military comes in the form of the cartoon (green parabola on Google earth photo). The citizens of the world must pay attention to the fact that Usaia has not provided any reasonable means to assist in the identification of the perpetrators of the MH17 shoot-down. The bulk of its “evidence” consists of a rehash of what is found on social media. And much of what is found on social media has been shown to be forged by the Ukrainian Security Service and Ministry of the Interior.
When the neo-Nazis in Ukraine overthrow a democratically elected government, the west does nothing but rant against Putin. When the unelected government of Ukraine launches air strikes, MLRS Grad launches, and ballistic missile strikes against its own civilian population in Donbass, the west does nothing but rant against Putin. When the Kiev neo-Nazis burn people alive in Odessa, shoot them down as they attempt to escape the flames, and rape a pregnant woman before strangling her with a telephone cord, the west does nothing but rant against Putin. When 298 innocent lives are lost, the west again rants against Putin. But it finally does more. In the person of Usaia, it issues a cartoon which seeks to implicate the rebels, individuals fighting against the outrages perpetrated against them by the unelected government in Kiev. By its actions Usaia, and all those leaders aligned with it, demonstrates complete, total, and utter disrespect for the basic tenets of democratic freedom and for those citizens of the Netherlands, Malaysia, Australia, and those others who lost their lives in the MH17 shoot-down. This year marks the launch of the First World War 100 years ago. Any reading of the history of that conflict shows the political leaders, and the media, doing all they could to provoke war, not prevent it. The actions of Ukraine, the irresponsible invective and blathering of Obama, Kerry, Cameron, and the rest, appear designed to provoke what will likely be the Last World War. The citizens of the world should act to stop them. […]