Many major developments to report today. First, though I was trying very hard to contain my excitement over the past days, the level of success the Novorussian Armed Forces (NAF) against the Junta Repression Forces (JRF) appears to be absolutely amazing and, should Mariupol fall, which appears to be likely, I would speak of a strategic victory, something which I am normally extremely reluctant to do, especially when speaking to a force which only recently was a volunteer militia force. How could that possibly have happened?
Military situation:
I think that there is a second expression which now can be used without exaggeration: all the signs are that the JRF have reached their breaking point: this is the moment when a military force suddenly and completely collapses, like a damn which blows out under the pressure of water. The JRF is not retreating on one, two or even three directions, it is retreating everywhere (except north of Lugansk). Entire battalions are leaving the front under orders of their battalion commanders and without the approval of the Junta leaders. At least one such battalion commander is already being judged for desertion. The entire Ukie leadership seems to be in a panic mode, especially Iatseniuk and Kolomoiski, while the Nazis are mad as hell at the Poroshenko administration. There are constant rumors of an anti-Poroshenko coup by outraged Nazi nationalists. And then, there are the absolutely staggering Ukrainian losses.
[I have stricken out the following section due to protest by it’s author who accused me of “grossly exaggerating” and “misrepresenting” his figures]
There is one such list which I reader sent me who, according to my reader, was published on Zero Hedge, but I could not find it there. I did find it here though:
Ukrainian forces casualties and losses 2 May – 21 August
Casualties
Total: 32.702
Dead and wounded: 20.274
Prisoner, deserters and missing: 12.418
Destroyed or captured materiel:
I. Aviation
Attack
– 16 Su-25 (one captured 7 July)
Bomber
– 7 Su-24
Fighter
– 2 MiG-29
Recon
– 1 AN-30
– 6 drones
Transport
– 2 AN-26
– 2 IL 76
I.a Helicopters
– 20 attack and transport Mi-24, Mi-17 y Mi-8
II. Ground forces materiel
Tanks Total: 347 ( 68 captured )
– 319 T-64 ( 65 captured )
– 2 T-64 Bulat
– 7 T-72 ( 3 captured )
– 19 T-84-U Oplot
Armored vehicles Total: 602 ( 119 captured )
– 163 BMP Infantry Fighting Vehicle, tracked ( 69 capturados )
– 125 BMD IFV Paratroopers, tracked ( 9 captured )
– 312 BTR Armored Personnel Carrier, wheeled ( 39 captured )
– 2 BRDM Scout Vehicle, wheeled ( 2 captured )
Artillery Total: 180 ( 122 captured pieces )
– 4 SO-203 2S7 “Pion” 203mm
– 5 SAU 2S3 “Acacia” 152mm (1 captured )
– 30 SAU 122 2S1 Gvozdika 122mm ( 25 captured )
– 2 Mortars 2S4 Tyulpan 240mm(2 captured
– 6 Mortars SAU Nona 120mm (6 captured )
– 21 Antiaircraft guns ZU 23-2 ( 18 captured )
– 24 Rocket launcher Grad 122mm ( 24 captured )
– 11 Rocket launcher Uragan 220mm (4 captured )
– 45 howitzer D-30 122mm ( 10 captured )
– 32 mortars82mm ( 32 captured )
Trucks and cars Total: 153 (124 captured )
– 5 Hummer
– Jeep
– 25-66 GaZ
– Staff car
– Mobile crane
– 1 ZIL 131
– 2 KrAZ
– 58 Ural trucks
– 69 Kamaz trucks
– 4 UAZ 469
Last edited by von Junzt; 23 Aug 14 at 07:42.
Now I am not endorsing this list since I don’t even know who made it up or on what basis.
But I will say that it is consistent with. Check out this list and this one (thanks to GM for the link!!). Finally, this list is also consistent with all the footage shown on the various video hosting sites such as YouTube. I will even add that this list is clearly incomplete since it was made before the biggest Ukie losses occurred. But let’s not look at the exact numbers, let’s look at the suggested magnitude. This tells us that:
- 40’000+ Ukrainian soldiers have died.
- 600+ armored vehicles have been lost.
- 200+ artillery pieces have been lost (probably many more in reality).
- Most of the Ukie aviation in flying condition has been lost.
If, as it appears likely, the real number of dead JRF soldiers is anywhere near the 30’000+40’000+ figure, then this is something absolutely unique in modern warfare. There might be an exception to this I have missed, but as far I can know in every single conflict since WWII (and including WWII), civilians have died in far greater numbers than combatants. This is also absolutely true of NAF soldiers who have died in far smaller numbers than Novorussian civilians. So unless these figures are completely off the mark, and I see no reason to believe this, the Junta forces were absolutely massacred in an horrible butchery which cannot completely be explained by the superb fighting skills of the Novorussians: clearly the Junta has used these forces as cannon fodder with not even a modicum of care, nevermind support, for them. Yes, the Novorussians had God, morale, common sense, the Truth, the GRU, history, decency, international law, covert support from Russia and whatever else on their side but that does not explain the mind-boggling casualty figures of the Ukie side.
To me a life is a life, and a Ukie life is no less precious than a Russki life. Yes, I am delighted and relieved that the JRF were defeated and that the horrors which the Novorussians had to live through will possibly end soon. But I feel heartbroken and immensely said for the thousands of innocent Ukrainians who were used by their Junta and sent to die in the process of a criminal operation whose goal was the ethnically cleanse the entire Donbass of its population. And I am proud and happy by the way Russia and the Novorussians have treated the Ukie deserters and POWs. Even the worst ones, the artillery crews, which were shown videos of whom they murdered and of what they destroyed, they were confronted with their victims and sometimes they were ordered to work to rebuilt, as much as can be, the buildings which they had destroyed (some broke down in complete hysterics, by the way). But they were no shot, tortured, mistreated in any way. They received medical attention, they were washed, clothed, fed and eventually sent back home. I consider that treatment another huge moral victory for the Russian Orthodox side whose effects it will take many years to fully access.
The bottom line is this: Poroshenko promised a victory in a matter of weeks and his forces suffered one of the most total defeats in the history of warfare. Can the Ukies rearm? Yes, to some degree. Do they still have huge weapons stores? Yes, but all the (comparatively) better gear has been used by now. Can they still conduct a 4th, 5th and 6th mobilization? Possibly. Though the public mood is ominous at this time. Can the AngloZionists send them instructors, equipment and money? Yes. Will that turn the tide? Probably not. Unless the Ukies have held back and secretly trained a large number of soldiers over the past 3-4 months (like the Novorussians have done in Russia) and unless these soldiers are now ready to be sent in, fully equipped and ready to go, I don’t see the JRF bouncing back for a very long time. But the most likely thing is that this ridiculous “Banderastan” experiment has seriously begun sinking now and that many rats are leaving the ship. Last, but not least, for the very first time some mentally sane voices are being heard on Ukie TV.
For example, I have seen very interesting footage of a Ukie general (possibly retired) who, speaking in Russian, told a press conference that enough people had died and that it was wrong that people born in the same country, having the same culture and the same language (yes, he really said that!) were killing each other. He concluded “we are not only tired of shooting, we are tired of killing”. That kind of talk was never heard only weeks ago on Ukie TV. Sure, that creep Savik Shuster is still inviting Nazis on his 3 hour long weekly program, but I bet you that he has already made his suitcases and has an exist strategy ready (a move to Israel is what I suspect he will do).
NATO summit: the mouse that roared
It’s too early to call this one since it’s not over yet, but so far hot air and a general impression of irrelevance seems to be the only result from this summit. First, the US and the UK have announced more sanctions which makes me wonder about the other countries. Now they say the that US and EU will impose sanctions, but we know that the Czechs and Slovaks have promised to veto any such move. But even if they do, this will be more of the kind of symbolic nonsense like banning Russian banks (who are leaving anyway) or Russian officials (who now see that as a mark of great honor). The goofiest idea came from, what else, the British who want to cut Russia off the SWIFT network. Which makes the Russians wonder how the EU wants to pay for its gas. Oh, and then there is this 10’000 men rapid reaction force whose creation is supposed to terrify the Kremlin. Let me tell you, as a military analyst, that rapid reaction forces are – by definition – not something you can use in a conventional war against a continental power like Russia with large number of men, artillery and armor. That is absolutely laughable. But even better is this: while the US and EU are discussing the creation of this force, Putin has already given the order to DOUBLE the size of the Russian Airborne Forces which, by the way, are superior (in training, equipment and capabilities) to any comparable western force, bar none.
art: Josetxo Ezcurra |
Please understand me right: I am not dismissing NATO at all. As a militarized political organization its capability for malevolence is immense, but this is primary a problem for the EU countries which, at best, are something between a US protectorate or colony, and who have to put up with the ugly consequences of being subservient to this fully US-controlled supra-national enforcement instrument. For Russia the problem is the castrating effect NATO has on EU politicians as shown by the grotesquely stupid move by Francois Hollande to cancel (probably only *delay*) the delivery of the Mistrals to Russia. That kind of nonsense is the real by-product of NATO membership, but that hardly makes NATO a credible military threat.
Speaking of Hollande and his decision to delay the delivery of the Mistrals, the BBC gave some figures of the costs involved for France:
A French diplomat earlier said the contract was suspended until November, and the delay “could cost us 1bn euros”. The deal is worth 1.2bn euros – and Russia is reported to have paid most of it, so breach of contract would mean France having to reimburse that money. In addition, France would be liable for an extra 251m-euro penalty payment, French news website LCI reports.
Of course, the real costs of this debacle is a huge loss of credibility for France and its international image. It’s is all very well to proudly say “la France! la France!” but when you act as a poodle you get treated like one. In the polite world of international diplomacy nobody will say much, but everybody will know that everybody knows. And, of course, none of that hurts Russia one bit. At the most, the full complex of western “sanctions” against Russia are a short-term mild annoyance and a fantastic opportunity to finally tackle some much delayed and most urgently needed reforms. Frankly, I think that these sanctions are a blessing and, apparently, so do most Russians (according to recent opinion polls).
The EU – finally getting a little fed up?
There is no doubt that the EU’s abject subservience to AngloZionists has really hurt European economic and political interests. Not only that, but from an EU point of view, the situation in Banderastan is getting worse and worse and even worse. There are some signs that both the Poroshenko regime and the EU are finally becoming aware that unless they do something really, really, soon things might get much worse. And, exactly as Oleg Tsarev had predicted it, as soon as the NAF scored its first major victories the EU and Poroshenko suddenly became interested in negotiations. And, right on time, Putin offered his peace plan.
Putin’s 7 point peace plan |
As peace plans come, this one is pretty much a no-brainer and contains only rather obvious points. Hardly earth shattering, but still a very good basis, especially when combined with a clear message to the Ukies that Russia is not a part to this conflict and that everything must be negotiated in direct talks with Novorussia. As for the Novorussians, they have already basically agreed to a slightly amended version of the plan. Interestingly, so apparently has Poroshenko. In contrast, Iatseniuk is enraged and apparently wants to built a wall along the Russian border (he really seems off his meds recently). Finally, it appears that Merkel and the OSCE are fully backing the plan, while Fabius is very reluctantly “not opposed”.
Of course, we all know that the Ukies and the EU have broken every single agreement they ever committed to since this war started, but this time there is no doubt left whatsoever about the outcome should no negotiated agreement be reached. And since the Ukies and the EU need this peace plan much more than Russia, they might want to stick to their word this time. Maybe.
An important thing about this plan is that it contains only immediate to short-term elements. There is nothing at all in it about any final status for Novorussia or, for that matter, of the rest of the Ukraine. And this exact how this should be. Why? Because what is important in this plan is not what it says, but what it implies: “you have lost and we can restart this one anytime we want“. Yes, I know, neither the Novorussians nor the Russians have said any such thing, but remember that making threats is not the Russian way. Russians do not promise, they do not threaten – they just act. And if Obama, Cameron or Hollande are too stupid to understand this, Poroshenko (being, as any other Ukie “oligarch”, a Mafia boss) knows that very well. I promise you that there is a deep level of mutual understanding between Putin and Poroshenko which no western leader will ever imagine.
The smile which says it all |
For all the bullshit about nationalism and politics, they are both Russian strongmen, clan bosses, and even if Poroshenko is a tiny little insect in comparison to Putin, they still have that “clan boss” culture in common and that means that Putin has absolutely no need to make any threats to Poroshenko simply because Poroshenko already knows. For example, I heard on Ukie TV that Putin had allegedly told an OSCE official that “if he wanted he could take Kiev in two weeks”. Whether this is true or not (I doubt it – it can be done is less time) is not the point. The point is that this is exactly the kind of “explanations” which Putin does not need to convey to Poroshenko, but that he might need to “clarify reality” to some western diplomat of the “intellectual caliber” of, say, Hollande or Rasmussen.
So are the Europeans waking up? Is the Russian strategy to push a wedge between the EU and the US working? I think that this is too early to tell, but I am becoming cautiously optimistic. The way Merkel immediately endorsed the “Putin plan” might be a sign that at least Germany is starting to seriously feel the heat.
Tomorrow in Minsk?
Tomorrow will be huge. Not only is the NATO summit concluding, but the Ukies are meeting with the Novorussians under the watchful eyes of Russia and Belarus. Apparently topics will range from energy to the peace plan (the EU probably will want guarantees for its gas in exchange for supporting the plan). The biggest threat now is that the AngloZionists and their Nazi allies in the Ukraine will be very very angry if a deal is made. Frankly, Poroshenko is taking a big personal risk, but since his situation is already very precarious, he might have figured that an 11th hour “rebranding” of himself as a “peacemaker” might not be the worst possible outcome, especially if the Germans try hard to protect him. As for the US, it might turn to its time-honored tradition and simply dump Poroshenko. My biggest concern are the bona fide Nazis a la Iarosh, Timoshenko, Iatseniuk or Tiagnibok who will be absolutely outraged at any deal made with Putin. Likewise, the oligarchs like Akhmetov and Kolomoiski (who hate each other) will also be furious, as will Hunter Biden.
art: Josetxo Ezcurra |
The sad fact is that there is a entire clique of Ukrainian Nazis and oligarchs who much rather continue the war against Russia (because this is, of course, what this is really all about!) to the last Ukrainian soldier if need be rather than accepting a deal, especially a very bitter one like the one presented to Kiev right now. Because, let’s be honest here, this will be packaged in all sorts of noble and lofty words, but we are talking about a capitulation and not some kind of meaningful compromise, at least form the Ukie point of view.
What the Ukraine really needs right now is a real process of denazification. There is another “Ukraine” out there, at least potentially if not historically, which could be very different from the Banderastan the AngloZionists have created. Yes, Ukrainian nationalism is the product of centuries of west European machinations and conspiracies, but this does not mean that it has to forever remain hostage of the hateful forces which have created it. For one thing, this conflict has constantly obfuscated the fact that most Ukrainians and most Russians want an independent Ukraine to exist. This will be hard to prove at this point, but I believe that the only region of the ex-Ukraine which really wanted to join Russia was Crimea. The Donbass would have settled for much less. I am absolutely convinced that the stupid Nazis really did it to themselves, that blinded by their rabid hatred of everything Russia or Orthodox they simply could not help act the way they did, because it was “in their nature“. Now it is too late to turn things around, you cannot magically undo that horrible and crazy civil war. But it might be possible to use the reflexion about the causes and results of this outcome to push for a real denazification of the Ukraine. After all, no matter how brainwashed they currently are, most Ukrainians will come to realize that it took the crazy Ukie nationalists only 6 months to completely destroy their country and that all that this sick ideology of hatred and ignorance brought them is poverty, violence, humiliation and death. But I am looking way to far ahead.
Let’s see what tomorrow brings (or not) and then where this might lead us. What is certain is that even if tomorrow brings a vapid and meaningless NATO summit and a peace deal in Minsk, this will be way way way too early to celebrate. At best, it will be one first step in the right direction, but only one step on a long and still very dangerous road.
Stay tuned, I will try to keep you informed the best I can.
Kind regards,
The Saker
I’m going to keep my comment to just a small portion of what I see coming….
What next………
I think we are moving to 5) Search for the guilty part of the 7 Project phases. I’m starting to feel that Kolomoisky is being groomed for the public “guilty” role (well deserved if I do say so myself). I’m sure that he will not appreciate this. He will fight tooth and nail against this by trying to take as many down with him as possible if, as and when as a threat to stop the casting of the role. But somebody important has to be fed to the propaganda machine that has evolved on this clusterfuck. And he may think he is a big fish but there are far bigger and more powerful sharks in the pond.
This “preliminary” report (whitewash????) on MH17 may be the opening play on the “Search for the guilty” phase. Those who have some control over this mess have delayed it, probably with the view that they would see how events on the ground played out. And if necessary, they would have the option of telling SOME of the truth. Parubuiy’s resignation at the beginning of August sticks in my mind for some reason when I think of this. I guess we’ll see. Trying to figure out what these sociopaths do can twist your mind into a pretzel.
Whether there is a ceasefire and the framework thereof (defacto defeat for Kiev) or not will open up a more “interesting” stage of the AngloZionist project collapse. If there is a ceasefire, how is it going to affect the elections in Ukraine (so many possibilities)? Where are the national guard units going to go and how are they going to react to their “masters” both immediately and over the winter (Maiden version II?). How is the army going to react to whatever blame is heaped on them? How will the political situation evolve in Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk, Odessa and other regions? How much support (and what kind) will Russia provide the Novorussia grouping (Oh, so many possibilities for game playing here). As an aside, I can’t see how Novorussia can coexist in an entity with the Galacian Nazis.
If the ceasefire stratagem fails, Novorussia will grind its way west (and likely north) in a series of jerky steps where they will have times where relatively large amounts of territory will fall under their sway. This will cause headaches but that’s the price. I think it is better for Novorussia to fight rather than be sold out by oligarchs.
Overall, the AngloZionists will not be able to make this pig look good no matter how much lipstick they use.
As for the people who wish for a conclusive confrontation, I have this to say. I see this as trying to contain the fallout of the collapse of the AngloZionist empire, both militarily and financially. The transition to whatever comes next is seemingly a glacial process. Instead of having one big forest fire, I think it is better to have a series of controlled burns. I believe that the group that is trying manage these burns is being led by Putin and the people around him. They didn’t initiate this situation, but they are trying to do the best they can. I think all rational and humane people on ALL sides should assist or stand aside if they can’t (pragmatists living in the west take note). Pray that Putin (and company) makes this work or we are ALL in deep shit.
Perhaps, with the right guidance, the Ukraine might decide to nationalize some of the oligarch assets?
Perhaps one objective of Putin’s was to get rid of the oligarchs, which, ironically, was the supposed aim of the maidan.
Hi Saker! Thanks for all the work you’ve done in creating this site.
Thanks for all the work and research involved in creating the site and getting the facts on the latest post.
There can be no ceasefire now? What madness is that? They still have 15000 Ukie troops on their soil to deal with.. Not to mention that large parts of Donbass is not even liberated yet…
NATO has already given Ukraien 15million to modernise their army, the only thing the ceasefire will do is give the oligarch more time to arm and train their army, and you can be sure NATO will flood them with experts and advanced weapons!
This is the chance, right now, for the Novorussians to advance, if they wait they will lose the chance forever.
When the nazi oligarch armies are broken and defenceless before you, you do not say “Hey, lets take a break for 4 months.”
I wish Strelkov was in charge, he would not tolerante Putin messing around with Novorussians future. He would march on Kiev!
Russian general demands preemptive strike doctrine against Nato:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-04/major-escalation-russian-general-demands-preemptive-nuclear-strike-doctrine-against-
The leader of the Novorussian ghost brigade has spoken out against the betrayl of the DNR and LNR leaders to accept a “ceasefire.” with the oligarch-nazi regime.
The brigade Prizrak (Ghost) commander Alexey Mozgovoy: Against oligarchs and false politicians. And for the people!
http://novorossia.today/novorossia-news/the-brigade-prizrak-ghost-commander-alex.html
Saker, I realize that mine is a cynical question, but I think it’s still pertinent. Does/should NAF want a ceasefire? It seems to me that NAF has the initiative right now, and they are involved in very important and promising operations, most importantly liberating Mariupol.
Good analysis, but I think you’re a bit behind the times when you suggest the Ukrainian project still has broad support. That support is evaporating every day, and when the full impact of a lost war, its mindless butchery, Nazi psychosis and all the sheer stupidity sinks in, there’s going to be very little left. This time next year there may be nothing at all on the map that’s still labeled Ukraine. History moves on. In the U.S. the old people are the most patriotic, but in the Ukraine the a lot of old people romanticize the Soviet past, and the young are fickle.
A New Look at Goals (Strategies and Tactics)
Two Parts-
Part 1:
For six months we have looked at Ukraine with an idea that it was about either a buffer against NATO missile and troop basing on Russian border or it was about Liberty for Russian people who were Ukrainian citizens.
Now it is clear that Ukraine is about the final defense of Russia as a nation and culture.
Strelkov spoke of this in an oblique, histrionic way. He was always fighting for Mother Russia. It was an outpost in Donbass, but his goal was to fight and defeat the Nazis, the fascists, the West, NATO, the U.S. whoever was coming in force or proxy against Mother Russia.
I believe this explains Putin’s moves. The two men are on the same page strategically. Protection (defense) of Mother Russia. All actions must not excite a response that costs Mother Russia internal damage.
What is acceptable is some loss of GDP, loss of Ruble power, loss of flexibility in the Western markets. But loss of a city or large units of military is clearly not acceptable.
By demarking this it has allowed for the loss of Russian civilians who live in Ukraine. It has allowed for loss of militia and volunteers who are fighting for whatever reasons in Strelkov’s war. It is Stelkov’s war, not Putin’s. Though Putin now controls it. They both have the same goal. Protection and preservation of Mother Russia.
Now, with this in mind instead of merely a bufferization of Ukraine or the liberation of Donbass we can see that the higher more developed goal can include callousness, Machiavellian schemes, lies, deceits, abandonments, subversions—anything for the existential imperative of saving Mother Russia intact.
This final defense has other characteristics such as the China alliance, counter-sanctioning, propaganda, and even tactics that appear counter to the original “goals”.
Putin has just begun to fight. It appears to some that he is about to concede.
You can believe that as Col. Cassad seems to think so, or as all Putin-haters seem to think so, or as the NATO-US planners think so.
However, Putin has NATO in a trap of their making. Strategically, they have embraced the pig that can’t get out of the mud hole of Ukraine. They will pour money in, arms in, manpower in but they cannot fight the war NATO-style. They cannot bomb and cruise missile Mother Russia. They cannot align their forces against General Shoigu’s Army of the RF. They can only join in small units with nazi’s and criminals. So, their military strength and tactical advantages are lost. They possess no advantages on the ground.
This is a long proxy war. Yaroush is next in line of accession. Imagine how this will go over with the Western Ukraine mothers. A cold winter, then another year of war?
The Russian advantage today is: NATO is still not inside Ukraine and Ukraine is poorer than ever with no capacity other than to suck the ass of its paymasters and mistresses.
All the destruction of Ukraine’s cities and citizens has been done by Kiev and the junta. And what anyone can see is hundreds of white trucks coming to help. Peace talks and ceasefire talks proposed by Putin. These are tactics, but good propaganda images and messaging to Ukrainian mothers. The next round of barbarity is on those mothers. If the war continues, if the junta lives, if the descent into the abyss proceeds, it is on the mothers of the Western oblasts. Putin’s propaganda is aimed solely at the mothers.
-end Part 1
NATO is donating 15 million to modernize the Ukrainian Army? What an insulting joke. 15 million will barely modernize Poroshenko’s kitchen. Despite the bombast, NATO has moved on and will soon be chasing the Islamic State around the desert. They are going to let Ukraine twist slowly in the wind.
to the saker:
You have put together an excellent summary and overview of the situation, which helped clarify for me many uncertain points.
May I however offer a few contrary comments?
First, while I am profoundly revulsed by the horrors of the fighting & death (and I grieve the loss on both sides); I do not think you can categorize any of the fighters as innocent. They may be deliberately ignorant, they may be idealists, but they are not innocent. Anyone who picks up a gun to kill and slaughter – up close or at a distance has made a clear concrete choice. They are not innocent.
Second, would not a ceasefire actually give the Junta forces needed time to build defensive structures and reorganize their forces? Should fighting re-occur, the losses will be huge on both sides. IMO it favours the Junta side alone and only penalizes Novorussia. This I do not understand coming from Putin.
Third, a ceasefire would only allow the extent of the defeat and the resulting hatred to go through the roof – all of which favors the Nazi forces. The Nazi forces will and can legitimately claim that they were betrayed. How will Novorussia negotiate with a Nazi regime? Right now they have some power, but what if the Nazi elements do come to power? The oligarchs are not particularly willing to do a deal that would see russia benefit. They, together with the US, would use a cease-fire to strengthen their position (The US believes they can control the Nazi element just like they thought they could control ISIS). None of this is good for Novorussia.
The Rada has before it a bill to suspend the citizenship of people born in Ukraine. Guess how it will be used? This violates the constitution. But it will pass and be used in the most evil of ways.
As long as the US is working with the oligarchs and the Nazi elements, there is no way that Novorussia gains anything from a ceasefire other than more fighting in the future, political betrayal, economic subjugation and far more death than if they establish their borders now.
@123abc:Saker, I realize that mine is a cynical question, but I think it’s still pertinent. Does/should NAF want a ceasefire?
Yes. For two reasons. First, they do not have the kind of capabilities to liberate all the “historical Novorussia”, at least not at this point. If they over-reach out of a premature sense of victory they can end up committing the same mistakes as so many other armies who went too far for their own good. Second, and this is what so many posters are simply not getting, people are dying every day and this massacre has to stop. It is all very well and brave to sit at a keyboard and declare that “we will fight to the last Ukrainian”, but it is quite different to be killed or maimed while doing the fighting.
Right now the NAF has already almost won. I bet you Mariupol will be taken anyway, but right now to take the fight to Kharkov or Dnepropetrovsk would be wrong, or even dangerous. It is much better to see how Kharkov and Dnepropetrovsk will deal with the regime which is guilty for this disaster.
Finally, as Putin said: you measure success not by the number of missiles you fire, but by the number of missiles you did not have to fire.
I know the armchair generals will pour scorn on me for saying that, but then I don’t really care about that kind of stuff. I call it as I see it. Period.
Kind regards,
The Saker
Part 2:
Ukraine’s future is clearly with a Mother Russia or it will remain a crippled dependency of Europe. It will be encased in its self-loathing like Chernobyl is encased, or it can convert back to humanity and brotherhood. The militia has shown brotherhood to their wounded co-combatants. They have shown compassion and empathy, as have the people of Rostov where the soldiers of Ukraine were cared for and allowed to return home fed and clothed.
Mother Russia is a treasure for Ukrainians (not all, but some, enough). It can be an engine for its recovery. Putin’s game plan offers that opportunity. The oligarchs of Ukraine have rejected that offer. It is yet to be seen if the military leaders and lower echelon civic leaders of Ukraine are all so brain-washed that no reconnection is possible.
If that is so, Ukraine will fracture along its own fault lines like a stale crust. Ukraine will have no other use to anyone. It will be in five or six or two or three pieces. NATO will have no advantage with whatever is left. Russia will be the clear winner. And Mother Russia will be preserved. The dead and wounded and refugees of Novorossiya are the cost. Even at twice the present casualties, it is a low cost for the goal. These are the common costs of any power’s frontier. And Novorossiya is frontier to Mother Russia.
And whence NATO? It will impale itself in futile wars against Islamic jihadists. NATO is a destroyer of cities and third world armies. It is useless for any other military purpose. Europe and the West do not have a state enemy that threatens it. Neither Russia nor China threaten Europe. Islamic jihad is the clear and sole enemy of European civilization.
NATO has failed three times to defeat it. And now comes ISIS taunting them.
The cold war was a 14 Trillion dollar MIC boondoggle of fear and mind-fucking. Imagine the 21st Century’s Cold War II. It can’t happen. The West faces Islamic jihad and Eurasia. It has no way to wage Cold War II. It looked for a fast, cheap victory in Ukraine. It has lost.
Today in Wales, is the last chance for this bogus entity. Military that large and corrupt cannot defeat a militia. It is being routed by proxy. It has lost to the Taliban. It has lost to tribes of Libya. It has lost in its psyops with Iran and proxy war with Syria. It has lost whenever it cannot find a city to destroy or an army amassed along a barren highway to bomb. It is a video game military organization fighting with no honor anywhere. Compared to the Third Reich it is hollow, a think-tank creation born of ivory castle pointy-headedness, not risen from the womb of a motherland or breast-fed with real mother’s milk. Like the devil it serves, it has only a father. It is deformed spawn. Not sons of valor.
So, NATO will crumble over more time. Like the EU, pieces of the whole will break off. It too is stale crust.
Remember the goal: Russia must win or die. This is about Mother Russia once and for all. It is not just about natural resources, gas pipelines. It is about identity and culture, religion and language. It is about contributing to humanity and human progress as Russia.
Negotiations are just tactics, not strategy in Putin’s toolkit. They fix the decided facts, not the undecided.
Putin is winning. His proxies are winning. Mother Russia is winning. He can achieve statehood for Novorossiya and then, recognized by enough nations, that state will be able to pay its own way with ex-Ukraine resources as equity.
The frontier is transformed. The blood of pioneers is capitalized. Haven’t we seen this in Chechnya? Putin was ruthless then and ruthless now. The perfect Russian leader. Protector, clever, intelligent, resourceful, fearless and strong. Judge a leader by the men who will fight with and for him.
###
I understand your points and believe they are correct.I only have doubts on whether they are enough.I do believe that Ukraine should hold together.For the benefit of both sides and Russia.But not as presently structured.And not under junta rule.Only by having all “Novorossia” joined together and then united in a union with the other area can they be sure of protecting their rights.And never having a repeat of nazis taking over.Unless the neo-nazis are really defeated they will only lick their wounds and with NATO aid get stronger.If they get the power back over Donetsk and Luhansk.They will rig the police system and station enough troops to put down any sign of an uprising again.Like you said we have broken them (at least a big part of them),we need to finish them now.Until we have liberated all the 8 Oblasts and united them.The job isn’t done.That’s the time to make peace and insist the junta resigns and new elections are called.I think someone acceptable to both sides should be interim President.Maybe General Ruban,he seems an honorable man.But accepting rule by “bloody Petro” and Yats is nuts.They hate the Eastern Russians and can never be trusted.Like you I wonder about a neo-nazi coup taking place in Kiev.But I’m not sure that’s a bad idea.That would polarize the situation totally.And would let the Novorossians be seen by many in other parts of Ukraine as the lessor evil.We could proclaim we were fighting for a united free Federalized Ukraine.To free it all from fascism.I guess we’ll see what happens with the ceasefire.But I wouldn’t trust the junta further than I could throw them.
While I applaud the victory for Novorussia, I mourn the death of so many Ukrainians (on both sides) and based on these numbers from Western Ukraine. When does the fratricide ever end?
I’m certain that these deaths are Christian Ukrainians — not relatives or friends of the Oligarchs. Zionists are good at sacrificing non-jews for blood-libel. When does the rest of humanity WAKE UP and stop killing their own and other brown peoples so some fuking ZOG can have a chalet in Switzerland or a summer home in the Hamptons. What a goddam waste of humanity.
Sorry to be such a damper at this party. I’m grateful that ZATO and ZU Mercs are having their azzes handed to them. Three years ago I was doing battle on blogs encouraging American mothers to keep their sons from joining the military. Maybe they’ll wise-up. One can hope.
Onward…
P.S. FUK you Victoria Nuland.
This is the first war or theater since world war II without a major air superiority backing the “superior” force. Formerly invincible soldiers are vulnerable again.
When U.S. soldiers in Iraq or Vietnam and the Soviets in Afghanistan, they brought in the air support and punished the villagers.
The Kiev forces can’t rely on that aid, so the NAF if they get an opportunity doesn’t have to worry about being bombed. They can press an attack, and because there is no air power, they don’t have to hide in civilian areas.
There have been various terror reigns, most recently ISIS, but civilians were very much their targets. The Ukes are using artillery barrages, but they are in a situation where their resources are needed to fight the NAF which can hide off the roads.
I don’t know much about the post-World War II Chinese Civil War or South American spats.
The picture of Tymoshenko is priceless!
Has anyone read this article from the London Review of Books?
Why not kill them all?
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n17/keith-gessen/why-not-kill-them-all
In a word, oy! This is a stunning piece of propaganda, written as an unfolding historical narrative of events in Ukraine from Maidan to the present that subtly hammers home the message of the title. This article provides excellent cover for Western lies and artfully discredits critics of the official/media narrative.
Just one excerpt: “In Donetsk I had expected to find a totalitarian proto-state, and I did. The Kremlin liked calling the government in Kiev a ‘junta’, but here you had a real one. Professional mercenaries in fatigues called the shots and even ministers of state felt compelled to cross the street at the sight of armed men, lest a misunderstanding occur.”
The essence of the article is that people in Western Ukraine are modern, liberal, educated, European and the people in Southeastern Ukraine are uneducated, rough, backwards and an obstacle to Ukrainian progress, so “why not kill them all.”
It is still difficult for me to digest the fact that a publication such as the London Review of Books would actually publish something like this.
Pat
Perhaps you did not understand this excellent article.
40k dead seems incorrect. The leaked document only says 32k casualties. Which includes prisoners, wounded, MIA and AWOL. To document only says 20k dead and wounded. Surely 10k dead would be a better guess.
Surprisingly we didn’t hear anything from the cyber warfare front.
@Anonymous:40k dead seems incorrect
Yes, but I believe that the real figure is even much LARGER, not smaller. There are many reports of mass graves. The Ukies have entire trains of refrigerated wagons used to hold the bodies. Morgues are full. I cannot prove anything, but my belief is that the final figure, when it includes all the MIAs will be much higher. My 2cts.
Cheers,
The Saker
@Anonymous:This is the first war or theater since world war II without a major air superiority backing the “superior” force. Formerly invincible soldiers are vulnerable again
yes, but remember that Russian air-defenses are qualitatively much better than what was used in the other wars you are referring to. It’s kind of a special case. also, there were reports of the Russian Air Force shooting down Ukie aircraft and the Ukie aircraft illuminated by Russian radars form across the border.
Not disagreeing, just saying.
Cheers,
The Saker
@Andreas Walsh:This time next year there may be nothing at all on the map that’s still labeled Ukraine.
I don’t disagree. You might be right. But I don’t think that the Russian border will move West either. We shall see :-)
Kind regards,
The Saker
From 6 pm USA east coast time:
Vagelis Karmiros @VagelisKarmiros
“#Ukraine Unconfirmed” There are reports that small #NAF units have infiltrated in East #Mariupol suburbs with help of local cells.
Retweeted by Alex Bukovsky
#NAF is assaulting #Mariupol with 6,000 soldiers, 70 armored vehicles and “Grad”/artillery units [Ukie forces were Gradded today in open fields outside the city]
Retweeted by Alex Bukovsky
LOL! Psaki [USA State Department spokesperson]:
2 Sept 2014: “We support the territorial integrity of Ukraine”
3 Sept 2014: “We’re not going to be limited by geography” (Syria)
Retweeted by Alex Bukovsky
[ PHOTO ] Mariupol outskirts shelled by NAF today
Retweeted by Alex Bukovsky
As #NAF drives #Poroshenko’s terrorist troops away, people of #Novorossiya come out of hiding.
[RT VIDEO – 05:31] ‘It’s hell’: Ukrainians ‘sick & tired’ of war
The high # of dead is an absolute tragedy. Banderist or not, the ukranian soldier casualties were likely ordinary citizens before euromaiden. It was the extremist fervor that was juiced up by the west that made the neonazi soccer hooligans into the zeitgeist for the whole country.
They were led to fight by incompetents and opportunist weasels, and it turned out to be a moral failure, and a disastrous rout. Many families on both sides will now be tragically touched forever due to this whole affair.
Putin for his faults seemed to be the only party trying to avoid war, but was instead pointed at and deemed a tyrant
I do not share this analysis.
What started in Ukraine in December 2013 has only two potential endings:
1. Russia brings the U.S. and NATO to its knees by destroying the petro-dollar.
2. Russia does not prevail and the empire wins the ultimate battle.
Everything else is a sideshow. All the players in Ukraine are just pawns.
The empire will be relentless in trying to destroy Russia: the last piece before complete global hegemony (China would just be a formality in Russia fell).
CDN says:
Two elements which argue against the peace plan:
1) There is a lot of dissatisfaction in the JRF. I think it highly likely that soldiers returning from the conflict zone will turn on the present government and engage in another coup. This will be in retaliation for treating the youth of Ukraine as cannon fodder and sending men to their deaths with little training, poor leadership, zero logistics support, and a completely pie in the sky picture of the facts on the ground in the east.
If the returning soldiers do not revolt in this way then I suspect the mothers of the dead will do so.
The third factor is the return of captured soldiers. They will describe their treatment at the hands of the “evil” Russkies.
Given all of this I suspect it highly likely we will see a mufti-layered conflict take place. In Kiev there will be contention for control of the existing government. This battle will be fought between the military and the oligarch’s who have their own paid private army units (the few to be well equipped for the conflict.)
Outside of Kiev there will continue to be pressure applied by the NAF who will be free to reduce what is left of the cauldrons and then seek to grab increased amounts of territory as negotiating leverage. I would expect an attempt to create a “land bridge” to the Crimea or even a “pipeline transit corridor” leading to the EU to replace the existing trans Ukraine pipeline network.
2) The second complicating factor is the upcoming November election. If I were the NAF I would be reluctant to negotiate terms with a rump government that is very likely to be replaced with something else in two months. The NAF are already familiar with the degree to which the JRF cannot be trusted. Why bother to trust them further?
Cheers!
Mr. Saker,
Thank you for a well constructed analysis. How do you do it? Take care of yourself.
We won’t jinx Mariupol’s capture – so strategic is this city. So sad the loss of life.
A Link to Video of the Shelling
ZH: The Battle for Mariupol with Update (COMMENT Video in Russian –but no translation needed)
The Kiev Junta has astounding losses for a 3 month stretch.
Today NATO members pledged 15 Mln euros to modernize Ukie’s army. After everyone takes their cut, perhaps — maybe there will be enough money left over for a few hamburgers.
= = = = = =
NATO Summit: “ the mouse that roared.”
Mr. Saker, NATO is on life support yet trying to justify its existence. Canada has rebuffed any call to up defense spending. The other members are insolvent and hurting from sanctions imposed on Russia. EU trade down 49% in July
View this parody of all the “Hot Air” — see the main players and substitute the name of an animal for the one’s whose ears are being stretched…
Banzai7 gives a CAUTION & WARNING: No food or drink should be anywhere near your keyboard; Btw for adults only:
At NATO’S Camp {Summit}
The FoG Of NWO Wars
= = = = =
Clueless Francois has damaged France’s business reputation, not just at the government level.
France abrogates a contract sans Notice and no Force majore invoked. And, Unilaterally changes the Terms And Conditions. Russia reads this on Twitter. Is this the way the French do business? But,…but after the shock…“No, the contract is not cancelled, not suspended, still in force.” but with a qualifier:
Latest Qualifier : “We will deliver, if there is a ceasefire and a political settlement in Ukraine.”
Mr. Putin should say— Keep the ships, send our money with penalties for breach of contract. If you don’t we’ll take it from SocGen.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Friday, 05 September, 2014
The Minsk Talks Mr. Putin’s 7 point plan
Noted: Russia is not a party to the conflict…making only suggestions as an interested observer. Any agreement is between Kiev and Novorussia.
But Kiev’s track record is: Zero, Zilch,
Recall February 2014; As signatories, EU did not insist that the agreement made by Kiev be honoured.
Q: Who is there to guarantee Kiev’s signature?
There. is. No. One.
And Foghy rAssmussin will be paraded out. Moar sanctions, it’s Russia’s…fault… Russia Invaded.
= = = = =
Mr. Saker,
I suggest Merkel swings like a pendulum dependent on where the wind blows or how her bed is made.
Don’t hold your breath. Mr. Putin and Porky may have a ”deep mutual understanding” [of each other] but that is at it ends. Porky jumps to Obama’s drums, asks how high if he wants the IMF loans that he is desperate to have, or he will be dis-invited to the White House.
OMgosh…And then there is Arse Yatz, the chosen one, at the ready. There is no trust. Without Trust the conflict continues to Odessa.
Thank you. Fat Lady sings when its over.
AM
@Saker,
Two points and a question.
-Whoa you responded to me, I’m starstruck.
-I just can’t think of a conflict where the rebel force negated the air force. In most cases, the U.S. came with overwhelming force and bombed everything from a safe distance or at once. I suppose the Afghanistan conflict changed as the U.S. increased its arms assistance against the Soviets.
For the KIA/Wounded numbers, what constitutes wounded in this situation? Will Kiev see an increase in crippled beggars this Christmas or do they need a month off? Obviously, this is a huge difference.
zion is not going to stop.
romanians,poles,georgians,neo nazis from all over are training now at incirlik.
training with isis.
one big brit,jewish cia nazi love in.
6 week training thousands of men being processed.
other locations are jordan and kosovo camp bond steel.
and in poland proper.
the polish grom retired or active on vacation are getting a higher level of training in counterinsurgency.any pause will allow these satanists to regroup.
the oligarchs must lose everything.
poland must be humiliated.
‘It is still difficult for me to digest the fact that a publication such as the London Review of Books would actually publish something like this. ‘
Born Konstantin Gessen into an Ashkenazi Jewish family in Moscow Soviet Union,[3] he and his parents and sister moved to the United States in 1981. They settled in the Boston area, living in Brighton, Brookline and Newton, Massachusetts.
Gessen’s mother was a literary critic[4] and his father is a computer scientist now specializing in forensics.[5] His siblings are Masha Gessen, Daniel Gessen and Philip Gessen. His maternal grandmother, Ruzya Solodovnik, was a Soviet government censor of dispatches filed by foreign reporters such as Harrison Salisbury; his paternal grandmother, Ester Goldberg Gessen, was a translator for a foreign literary magazine.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Gessen
What so difficult? You should read what Masha writes about Putin.
This crap is just beginning. Putin knew what he started when he threw the casinos out of Moscow.
Crystal gazing: There will be no appreciable cease fire because the situation is still too chaotic to permit it. It is just talk. And 15M dollars will end up in the pockets of the Kiev fascist leaders.
Stalmate is dangerous in a situation as unstable as this is. It is not a good thing either politically or militarily. Someone will have to up the ante.
This is my call.
CDN says:
Another variable to throw into the mix.
Scotland is coming forward to a vote on independence from the UK.
Scotland tends to be left of centre with a strong community orientation. I doubt they think much of Cameron’s austerity programs while at the same time spending billions to build two aircraft carriers one of which will be immediately laid up as they cannot afford to operate it.
I suspect look with distaste of the NATO posturing and the endless attempts to provoke the Russian bear. The Scots are not a stupid people and they will reject all the PR BS spewed by NATO, by Cameron and by the USSA.
I suspect the chain of events in Ukraine will push them in the direction of a YES vote.
This does two things.
First it sunders the UK and creates a great deal of confusion over the immediate political future in the UK. I doubt Britain will be able to afford undertaking ridiculous initiatives in the Middle East once Scotland departs.
Second, a YES vote will energize unhappy publics across Europe and lead them to question the quality of leadership they receive. Leaders who have to spend $15 million to bottle themselves up at a golf resort for two days are hardly worthwhile leaders.
A YES vote of self determination in Scotland will also lend credence to the vote in Crimea that resulted in it re-associating with Russia, despite the objections of NATO to the 90% turnout and 80% majority. The entire issue of national self-determination will loom large on the world stage. I suspect that even the DNR and LPR will benefit from such increased attention to, and recognition of, the inherent right of self determination.
Dear Saker,
Thanks for the wonderful news, the much expected breaking point. Yes, deeply sorry for such a waste of lives. Now it seems that the boomerang has to fully hit the throwers, and whether there is a ceasefire (which NAF has already warned that the ukrs cannot control their own, as a preparation -i believe- for possible avoidance in keeping it!), the full momentum of the return is to break completely the already visible cracks. While i believe that politics is the art of the possible, i can only understand the minimalistic plan offered by Putin for initiating the negotiations, as a dodging manouver to support Poroshenko in his confrontation with yats, kolo and tymo. Strelkov and Mogzovoi appear to be extremely unhappy with the plan, and i very much expect the negotiators of Novorossya make their position clear tomorrow. It is not only about protecting Donbass and Mother Russia. The oligarchs have to be brought to trial and pay for their crimes and a humane state is to be built (Mogzovoi). Yes, Kiev is a world away, but perhaps speeding the fall of Mariupol, meanw opening the road to Crimea, if not to Dnipro to be travelled right away.
Thank you again.
Kind regards
Patagonian
It doesn’t sound like Obama or Cameron want a ceasefire. I’d be surprised if Kiev does as well. Last I heard you don’t negotiate with terrorists, and this for Kiev is an ATO.
The ‘anglo Zionists’ knew how this would play out. They knew Putin would resist the Ukraine joining NATO. Putin likewise knew the anglo Zionists would attempt to draw the Ukraine into NATO. I just can’t see how you can have a ceasefire until this issue is descisively resolved. I also have heard very little from Novorossia, and it is clear Putin is not negotiating for them, however much the presstitutes try to make that fit their narrative.
It made me laugh, at the 18th hole of the golf course where NATO is having it’s little meeting, there is a giant model F-35 and some general dynamics heavy armour on display. The real message of the NATO meeting is ‘the world is dangerous, buy more stuff.’
@les said… “May I however offer a few contrary comments?”
I concur and wish to add more: There should be a national referendum, every region (Oblast) chooses to remain Ukraine or separate Federation States. Everyone including those who had flees earlier to Russia Federation eligible to votes. It must be monitors by free and independent bodies and NOT by Brussels.
However, it will never happen. USA its poodles and oligarchs will never agree.
Kindest Regards
JC
https://www.facebook.com/alexander.mercouris/posts/688429691247278
Superb commentary
@JohnM said…I’m starting to feel that Kolomoisky is being groomed for the public “guilty” role (well deserved if I do say so myself).
Bingo! You are not alone! I made a bet (on another site) that Kolo would be the sacrificial victim! But this is precisely why all the Kosher Nostra is so hell bent to save Ukraine’s “freedom”. They made the same circus in the case of Berezovsky, Khodorkovsky, Bill Browder (Magnitsky!).
So we have peace as of today.. Lets all hold hands and sing in the rain.. kombaya….
You have a few people talking about WW3 with 5 billion people dead..
On the other hand Gold just dropped another $25 the day before and $10 yesterday.. It is selling for less than cost of production… Silver is selling for 20% or so less than the cost of production.. Oil is under $95 as well.. Low oil prices not only cause Russia problems but SA as well.. All those princess have expensive tastes..
So things are looking good for the normal people. Nothing to worry about anywhere at all.. kinda like the armadillo on the high way with the 18wheeler flying towards it at 100mph..
crunch..
Anon 1:05:
40k dead seems incorrect. The leaked document only says 32k casualties. Which includes prisoners, wounded, MIA and AWOL. To document only says 20k dead and wounded. Surely 10k dead would be a better guess.
The Ukrainian Army numbered around 60,000 at the start of this fiasco, with the 1st and 17th Tank Brigades, 25th, 79th, and 95th Airborne Brigades and 80th Airborne Battalion, 24th, 28th, 30th, 51st, 72nd, 92nd, 93rd, and 128th Mechanized Brigades, the 19th Rocket Brigade, and the 11th, 26thm and 55th Artillery Brigades, and the 3rd and 8th Spetsnasz Regiments.
The only mostly intact units are the 17th and 92nd, which were not yet comitted to the fight, and the Rocket and Artillery Brigades which don’t go near the frontlines. If you can point to where the remaining units are functioning in full complement on the front, everyone would feel enlightened. We’ve seen brigades go into cauldrons and come out with half the strength of a battalion.
Additionally, Kiev committed Interior Ministry National Guard and Border Guard and volunteer Battallion troops to the fight in strength of 10’s of thousands. Remember that in total Kiev is on its 3rd mobilization of manpower.
Where did all these men go if they are not dead and injured in the tens of thousands?
There are too many stories of mass graves, bodies at the bottom of lakes, mobile crematoria, and the like for some of it not to be true.
@What the Ukraine really needs right now is a real process of denazification.
Shouldn’t take the form of a return to Orthodoxy?
anon said
-Whoa you responded to me, I’m starstruck.
never be star struck by a saker
Hunter Biden is a much-overlooked factor in this. The personal stake that USgov has in this whole scenario, combined with the (exquisite) personal humiliation the Bidens would suffer should the DNR “peasants” take possession of Slavyansk and all of the fracking materials, makes for a huge unknown.
It’s going to be interesting to watch what unfolds as the NAF moves closer to Slavyansk.
Thank you for this, Saker.
Il faut donner du temps au temps indeed. And so darned difficult to do tonight bc, among other things, this all *feels* like a pivot point. But 90% of what’s going on is far beyond our purview and likely to remain that way so all we can really do is speculate based on the tiny shreds of knowledge we (believe we) do have.
And I’m finding myself just struck by random things, like learning Gorbachev owns 49% of Novaya Gazeta, or wondering whether those 11 (!) missing French planes did have anything to do with Hollande’s disastrous decision, or whether they will have anything to do with some kind of false-flag on 9/11 (eight more days, folks, eight more days…). Or genuine amazement at Obama’s words channeling Kerry on Syria,
“The Russian forces that have now moved into Ukraine aren’t on a ‘humanitarian’ or ‘peacekeeping mission.’ They are Russian combat forces with Russian weapons in Russian tanks. There are Russian warheads with Russian weapons and Russian tanks. Now, these are the facts. They are provable. They’re not subject to dispute.”
Or wondering whether even one person at this NATO corporate retreat has even one shred of genuine concern for any of the ordinary people in Ukraine.
But at least we know the answer to that one; fat lot of good it does.
Through this entire bloody mess, I have seen people—including our host, from time to time—doubting Putin. I have maintained a steady, calm conviction that Vladimir Vladimirovich knew what he was doing the whole time. Maybe I’m wrong. God knows, I have no claim to infallibility! But I have watched, as people said, “Act!” and VV did not act. I have heard claims of betrayal, I have heard “this is the last chance for Russia to act!” How many times? So many times, so very many times.
Russia can endure suffering. Russia is willing to take casualties, when need be. It is not that the Russians don’t love their children, don’t love their sograzhdanini (co-citizens), but Russia knows that people die, they die in war, they are martyred, they fall, seemingly unmourned.
Russia understands that the mills of justice may grind exceedingly slow, but they also grind exceedingly fine.
“Putin must act!” I have read here, how many times? “Now is the last moment!”
And yet Putin is still here, and increasingly the tissue of lies becomes see-through. The “monster!” Putin calls for cease fires. The “monster!” Putin calls for humanitarian corridors. the “monster!” Putin says, “Yes, if I wanted Kiev I could take it in two weeks, but I don’t, you see?”
I asked, on Facebook—so, is Russia invading Ukraine? I said that NATO is saying so, and that Ukraine is saying so, and that Russia is denying it . . . but that I couldn’t really tell, that there was no evidence to speak of, and asked for evidence to be presented. Several people liked the post, but no one presented evidence.
Maybe absence of evidence is evidence of absence.
Chto?
To quote an old ZZTop song, Vladimir Vladimirovich is coming out of this “badder than Shaft, Superfly, James Bond and Kung Fu, all rolled into one.”
I want to see this war end; I mourn the deaths of the peoples of Ukraine . . . and the only person on the world stage who seems to share this sentiment is the KGB thug heading the Russian government. Whodathunk!
Good news everybody – things work out in the end! Last night lightning hit my internet connection which opened up a tiny wormhole to 80 years into the future on my screen. I only had a few seconds to look but found a story on the 75th Reunion of Veterans of both sides of the Ukrainian-Novorussian Civil War. Though in their nineties or older, they both toasted each others health, paused for a minutes silence in memory of comrades from both sides lost during that war, and then watched members of the Ukrainian-Novorussian Civil War Re-enactment Society go through their drills in period costume of that era. Overhead flew the last flyable vintage Su-24 in the world.
Just before I lost the connection with the future, I happened to spot a story of the Americans bitterly complaining about the violent demonstrations on the Centro Histórico in Mexico City. They were protesting about the Chinese Ambassador and the Foreign Representative of the Southern Hemisphere Union were seen handing out tortillas and pizza to the protestors.
Remember the complaints from Strelkov and commenters in this and other forumns about mid-20s young men riding in refugee convoys etc? Shirking from the defense of their country, while their fathers and grandfathers took to the field raised plenty of disgust.
I read somewhere (in some forumn, iirc) that the youth that was missing from the NAF forces at the beginning were apparently sitting this one out, not from shiftlessness and cowardice, but as part of plan.
According to the writer, the plan was to have experienced greybeards hold the fort, bog the enemy down and accumulate trophies, while the youth went to Russia for intensive training so they could return at a critical moment to turn the tide.
At the time of Strelkov’s departure, it was announced that the NAF forces will quadruple, and will soon be going on the offensive. There was mention of “1200” returning from Russian where they were being trained. That number would barely quadruple a battalion, so perhaps the number was closer to 12,000.
Is there any truth to this? Hell of a smart plan if there is.
Erebus
Saker,
forgive my being blunt, but I think everyone here is bluffing, including president Putin. He outlined steps that he knows cannot be accepted, the militia added the 30miles distance that the Nazi will not tolerate. Nato is preparing 10,000 well trained warriors, and the fight goes on for another year. Nato-US-EU wanted to create a Nazi force to slowly destroy Russia and China, and they will not stop until there is a much more consistent defeat. From Putin and Novorossia points of view too, it is better to continue cleansing of the Nazi cancer. My feeling is that there will not be a ceasefire tomorrow, or that it is a trap for the junta to regroup.
ISIS to the Rescue
Amid NATO’s failures in Ukraine, America’s terrorist mercenaries threaten war with Russia.
http://www.landdestroyer.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/isis-to-rescue.html#more
@WizOz:Shouldn’t take the form of a return to Orthodoxy?
Absolutely. To the real traditional Orthodoxy of the Ukrainian people.
Cheers,
The Saker
Saker:
“if he wanted to he could take Kiev in two weeks”
Keep in mind that Putin is a bureaucrat who follows the rules.
What he actually said is that quiz, come to Kiev in two days, would take the remaining 12 days to complete the forms at customs and plant some trees to the troops parading in the shade.
hehe.
Proftel.
Ukrainian nationalism is actually a product of…gasp!…Russia, not of the West.
Just as an excessively doting parent creates a rotten child, excessive Russian care and generosity created lazy, ungrateful, stupid, spoiled, hateful and rebelious Ukraine. If you keep giving someone $100 every day for a long time, the moment you stop you aquire an avowed enemy.
If Russians treated Ukies the way Europeans and Americans do (i.e. a mix of indifference and disdain), Ukies would paradoxically like Russians more.
This is a classic case of someone not wanting to be a member of a club that wants him/her as a member.
“Familiarity breeds contempt” is another apt description.
@ Larchmonter445
Novorossiya is the future of Mother Russia. It is interesting to study the public statements of the men founding the revolutionary traditional nation of Novorossia (New Russia). They are on the same page as Vladimir Putin who in consultation with Alexandr Dugin (according to Joaquin Flores in the comments below Understanding the Astounding Novorossiyan Victories) notes the reconciliation of Mother Russia’s White(Russian Orthodox Civilization) and Red(Soviet Union) historical experience heralds a unique development in human culture. The hammer and sickle joined to the double headed eagle is a strong young configuration of mind with a psychological stability rooted in the blood soaked earth of Mother
Russia. The firebird rises from the ashes to create a new phenomenon in reality. We see a real revolution in human affairs from the Vineyard of the Saker. Anyway I thought your comment in line with my close examination of the words and deeds of the men who fight and create Novorossiya.
Thanks…
Saker and WizOz,
With all due respect, wouldn’t that take a miracle? I can see a peaceful, federated republic with ties to both the EU and Customs Union and language and faith a matter of personal choice maybe. But a return to Orthodoxy in Galicia? I think that might take a Roman — or at least St. Peter’s — Spring first. A change in the hearts of Ukrainians, that could happen, at least down the road. But you both know so much more about this than I do: can you really see a return to the One True Faith?
part 1: http://winterpatriot.com/node/921
But how were they so effective against a trained army that far outnumbered them? In battle reports, a criticism kept recurring.
The junta battle formations would advance without protecting their flanks and would find themselves surrounded by the NAF and in the middle of what became ‘killing fields’.
But how could SRG’s do this?
Well, the SRG’s acted together in formations and these formations went undetected (it seems) by the junta forces till it was too late.
There was a very simple tactic that the Mongols used very effectively against the Medieval Europeans time and time again and it appears to me that the NAF employed the same simple tactic with the same devastating results.
The Mongols would send a group of warriors against a walled town or city and attack the gates.
The local lord’s forces, who were forewarned of the Mongols’ advance, had barricaded themselves inside their siege proof walls.
The local forces would rain down arrows, spears and anything they could find onto the Mongols below.
After a short while the Mongols would turn-tail and would scamper off and over the nearest hill.
The local lord seeing this would order the drawbridge lowered and would set off with his troops in pursuit of the Mongols confident he had them beat.
All went well until they rode over the hill where the Mongols had prepared a three sided trap with a much larger force.
The forth side was closed behind the arrogant and stupid lord’s forces and a massacre ensued after which the Mongols rode into the city and took uncontested possession of it.
I think this is exactly what the NAF have done with the junta forces.
part 2 from above http://winterpatriot.com/node/921
The NAF would engage the junta army with a SRG and then retreat causing the Kiev knuckleheads to follow in hot pursuit stretching their supply lines, leaving their flanks unprotected and into the killing field set for them.
They did this time and again. These traps became known as “cauldrons”. All this was done with very few men.
It was often remarked that the NAF forces were made up of middle aged men.
“Where were the young men who should be along side them fighting for their land and families?”
They were in Russia.
Many families which included young men were evacuated to the Rostov area of Russia where, once their young families were safe, they were trained by the Russian armed forces to return to Novorossia when the time came.
It was all part of an overall strategy that proved costly but devastatingly effective during WW11.
While Russian forces with little equipment and ammunition held on for interminable months of siege in major Russian cities such as Leningrad and Stalingrad, the Soviet government was training and equipping divisions of troops in the east.
When the siege defenders were almost done (and hence maximum damage and exhaustion extracted from the Germans) the fresh divisions stormed westward and overran the German army.
The same strategy was employed in this Ukrainian civil war but in a much more limited and condensed way.
When the time came to go from the SRG/Mongol tactic to the WW11 offensive strategy,
Strelkov was relieved of command to make way for a whole new command group that had been trained along with the newly trained Novorossian volunteers.
Alexander Zakharchenko and Vladimir Kononov took over and announced the arrival of 1200 trained volunteers to the ranks (I think it is safe to say that there are many more than 1200 and that there are even more on the way).
These volunteers were trained in operating tanks and artillery. The offensive was about to begin.
The junta forces have all been drawn to the east of Ukraine and have been decimated.
By the time the offensive is complete, there will likely be no Ukrainian Army or other “punitive” forces in effective existence.
This will leave the way open for the Novorossians, like the Mongols before them, to stroll into Kiev without resistance.
The US had finally twigged to what was about to go down and started scrambling to save at least some territory in Ukraine.
All sorts of people started to say that federalisation of Ukraine wasn’t such a bad idea, after all, including Angela Merkel most recently.
Hey John M.
congrats on the “Overall, the AngloZionists will not be able to make this pig look good no matter how much lipstick they use.” comment… its a beaut…
I do not share this analysis too !
Any temporary ceasefire for prisoner exchange etc. – Fine, and humane.
For any other purpose knowing all the facts in respect to Ukraine and Russia
it’s simply stupid.
Should Novorussia choose a such ceasefire, they might pay dearly for that.
I pray I am wrong, however I am very disappointed.
I salute Alexey Mozgovoy The Great !
Someone posted this link at MoA today, re: IMF loans, Ukrainian oligarchs, and EUrocrat malfeasance, incompetence, and probable corruption:
http://johnhelmer.net/?p=11289#more-11289
It would appear that of the $3.2B doled out so far, 3.1B has made it’s way to offshore banks. Much of it via Privatbank, which is to say Kolomoisky. Does not paint a pretty picture of all parties involved nor the state of the Ukraine’s economy. That much we knew already though. If course the comment was I’m response to a hacker group releasing details of a German deal (unconfirmed as to the authenticity of the documents) to but steel from Ukrainian oligarchs at inflated prices. Glory to the heros…
Tactically, what about slavyansk? I cannot see a ceasefire ending which does not include that city. In that circumstance, at the very least I would expect continuing provocations that would be unvoiced by the western media and place both Putin and the government of Novorossiya in a difficult situation that could be played out, in the western media eventually as a mandate for more NATO involvement in the area.
Napoleon Hollande?
If the comparison of Sarkozy with Napoleon was hilarious enough, this one shouldn’t be made: it risks to induce Death from laughter (“a rare instance of death, usually resulting from cardiac arrest or asphyxiation, caused by a fit of laughter. Instances of death by laughter have been recorded from Ancient Greece to the modern day” (The perennial Wiki).
In a slightly different order. Russia treated Napoleon and France with magnanimity.
“Conducted outside Russia’s borders by commanders with distinctly foreign names, the 1813-14 campaign does not fit with national mythology. But it demonstrates the strength of Russia’s multi-ethnic empire and the depth of its integration in European affairs and security.
As he pursued his empire’s geopolitical interests, Alexander I managed to rally support from Prussia and Austria, presenting Russia’s invasion of Europe as liberation. In creating this favourable impression of the campaign, the tsar was helped not only by propaganda but by the remarkably disciplined behaviour of his troops who neither stole nor marauded as they advanced through Europe”.
These are the conclusions of Dominic Lieven, a descendent of “Christoph von Lieven, a bright young general in Alexander’s entourage. Christoph’s mother was confidante and friend to Empress Marie, Alexander’s mother, and a prototype for Tolstoy’s Anna Scherer whose St Petersburg soirée opens the novel” in his book: “Russia Against Napoleon: The True Story of the Campaigns of War and Peace”. By Dominic Lieven. Viking; 618 pages.
It is known that the Maximilian de Beauharnais, second son of Eugene de Beauharnais (le fils a Josephine), the adoptive son of Napoleon, married the Grand Duchess Maria Nikolayevna of Russia, daughter of Tzar Nicholas I and Alexandra Feodorovna, nee Charlotte of Prussia. The sweetest part is that the cake known as Charlotte was named after her by the famous French chef Antoine Marie Careme, who was hired by Tsar Alexander after the demise of Napoleon. He introduce in France “le service a la russe”.
The son of Maximilian, Serguey Romanovsky, was at a time offered the crown of Romania, but the masonic influences prevented it to happen. He was killed in action during the 1877-78 War, apparently not above suspicion.
Dear Saker
Thank you for this post. It describes the current Situation very comprehensible. Tomorrow we will probably know in which one direction the situation will develop.
“You measure success not by the number of missiles you fire, but by the number of missiles you did not have to fire.”
I love this Putin quote. For me, it clearly shows the humanity of the Russian President.
Larchmonter445
“Remember the goal: Russia must win or die. This is about Mother Russia once and for all. It is not just about natural resources, gas pipelines. It is about identity and culture, religion and language. It is about contributing to humanity and human progress as Russia.”
You’re absolutely right. It’s not only about oil and gas – it’s about everything. Putin fights for Russia and the Russian people, and he will do whatever it takes to achieve his goal to protect his country.
Thank you for your analysis. As always, it is an enrichment of the comment section of the Saker, which is already very much informative and valuable.
@Nora:With all due respect, wouldn’t that take a miracle? I can see a peaceful, federated republic with ties to both the EU and Customs Union and language and faith a matter of personal choice maybe. But a return to Orthodoxy in Galicia?
But Galicia is the one part of the modern Ukraine which not only has very little ties to Russia, it even has little ties to the historical Ukraine. Frankly, they would be better off either on their own or with some of their former patrons if that is one they want. What is certain is that there is a fundamental civilizational incompatibility between the Papacy and Orthodoxy. The best they can ever do is to be non-hostile neighbors. But nothing will ever erase of full millenium of genocidal maniacal hatred so peaceful co-existence across a border is the very best which can be done. Anything else and a conflict will begin brewing instantly.
Besides, it’s not only the Ukraine which needs to become truly Orthodox again, it is also Russia, at least the non Muslim and non Buddhist part of Russia which currently is still very “thinly Orthodox”. The kind of spiritual damage done to Russian Orthodoxy by 300 years of creeping secularism, following by seven decades of Bolshevik atheism, followed by 23 years of abject servilism justs cannot be undone in a few years. Make no mistake, Orthodoxy in general is in bad shape nowadays, in bad shape everywhere, but then again this is hardly the first time or the last one for that matter. So again, we must give time to time :-)
Kind regards,
The Saker
@Gideon Anthony:Tactically, what about slavyansk? I cannot see a ceasefire ending which does not include that city.
I very much agree. One way or another Slaviansk will have to return to safety behind Novorussian lines. Like Saur Mogila, Slaviansk is now a highly symbolic place which will have to be evacuated by the Nazis, either following an agreement or without. I bet you that the forces in Gorlovka are poised to retake it already and all they are waiting for is the order to do so.
We shall see. Kind regards and thanks for the good point.
Cheers,
The Saker
If WWII and all those deaths didn’t deNazify Galicia, what will?
Not that we can know, but I would suspect the anti-Russian feeling might even increase now, as the current problems are Russia’s fault. Russian encouraged and supported the Donbass rebellion. Then there is gas. And the big thing is that the Ukrainian military, SBU, and government are full of Russian spies. Then add in that many of the oligarchs were secretly working for Putin, and there you go.
So it was betrayal. All the more reason to hate Russia for another fifty years. This is why you think coming to Jesus is required. Maybe the Kremlin can fund a program to provide Bibles.
Hundson has it right.
Putin understands it all.
And he has Russianized the war with Russian soldiers’ blood and lives.
In effect, Putin is ‘all in’.
This is also a move against the fifth columnists. They now have to charge some high crime against the FSB and GRU and military as well as Putin to keep working against Russian military. And when they do keep working against Putin, they commit the high crimes and treason themselves.
I don’t know diddly squat about Russia, Ukraine and the culture. I do know what a man of historic mantle with a track record is. Putin is a great leader. He wants to make Russia great again. He knows his enemy very well. He knows Russia’s strengths and weaknesses exceedingly well.
He must neutralize Ukraine. He timed the assistance for the militia at the moment they had the Ukraine army in the southern boiler. From that moment onward, Russian army is in substantial enough to take whatever turf Putin wants to take.
And he will add as needed.
Andrew laid out an unfolding the other day that makes sense.” Lugansk, Donetsk, Kharkov, Zaporozhzia, Kherson, Dnipropetrovsk, Nikolaiv, Odessa, Kirovohrad, Sumy, Poltava, Chernigov, Cherkassy, Kiev, Zhitomir. This state will also encompass Transnistria and Gauguzia. This will be the state of Novorossiya.”
Mariupol looks like it will fall as the Ukies perfect retreat as a junta specialty.
NATO can put 4000 or 10,000 men on rocket sleds to react fast. They won’t be reacting anywhere near Russian GRADS. They won’t be rolling anywhere with NATO air cover because Russian AA and SAMs will destroy whatever flies.
Putin knows how to win on turf close to home. No military is better built for that task. Not even the Chinese are built for land war like Russia. NATO would first have to destroy Russia with nukes to win a war with Mother Russia.
When you have such advantages as Putin has, why anyone doubts he will win this his way is perplexing.
It was when, not if, and it was how, not will he?
He’s done it and he’s done it so it’s hard to prove but impossible to ignore. Like Crimea, but with GRADS and T-72s and whatever is needed to win.
He’s in to win. In English, Russian and the polyglot of NATO. Nazis don’t’ beat Russians. I do know that much.
Robert Perry Article:
Who’s Telling the ‘Big Lie’ on Ukraine?
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/09/02/whos-telling-the-big-lie-on-ukraine/
Saker:
But Galicia is the one part of the modern Ukraine which not only has very little ties to Russia, it even has little ties to the historical Ukraine.
Actually, Galicia has been Catholic for the same amount of time Belarus and Volyn were. Galicia roughly 1730 to 1945 and 1990 to present, Belarus and Volyn from 1595 to 1830. Transcarpathia has actually been Catholic the longest of any Ukrainian area (1645 to 1945 and 1990 to present) and it is the friendliest to Russia of any region of the western Ukraine.
The historic perspective of time in political union with Moscow vs. Warsaw since the Mongol invasion around 750+ years ago is also worth pondering.
Galicia – 45 years with Moscow, 465 with Poland, 150 with Austria
Transcarpathia – 45 years with Moscow, 25 with Slovakia, 1000+/- with Hungary
Volyn – 170 years, 470 with Poland
Vinnitsia/Zhitomir – 220 years with Moscow, 420 with Poland
Kiev/Sumy/Poltava/Kharkov/Kirovohrad – 340 years with Moscow, 300 with Poland
Southern/Eastern Ukraine – 220 years, no Polish time of influence
Nato has turned Ukraine into UkRuine!
Saker:
Now, seriously.
I want to cry when I read about 40,000 dead or 10,000 dead.
If only one, this would have a father and mother who mourn the death.
If we take into account 10,000 dead, 10,000 are families who have fathers, uncles, grandparents, cousins, children, etc. .
An average family has circle of relationship, counting a minimum of 20 people – in Brazil are 100!
10,000 dead in the minimum bill will affect 200,000 people.
A crippled injured requires at least 5 people in the family to look after, I think if we put these data to the surface, what is happening in Ukraine is considered insane historically speaking.
I know that there is high possibility of the Army of Novorussia expand more but there is a great possibility that the Ukrainian population currently brainwashing, take justice into their own hands with generalized linxamentos.
You know that cold, lack of money / food and lots of vodka … head can do.
I have a bad feeling that Benjamin Netanyahu will have to create more ground in Israel, USA and Berlin that will have to assimilate as much of neo-Nazis in the streets.
We must take a good thing in this whole story.
As said in Rome – the Barbarians are coming – perhaps with Putin they see that we are not coming and will know how they will be treated in the event of the worst happening to them.
hehe.
With regards to the losses suffered by both sides, have you made use of this site:
http://lostarmour.info/
http://lostarmour.info/armour/
I’ve been checking it occasionally and the increase in the tempo of the war is quite evident. In mid August (around August 15-16) there were 125-130 destroyed armoured vehicles (at least 113 government vehicles and about a dozen rebel vehicles) from the time the ATO started in April (so basically 1 vehicle destroyed per day, but this average is surely low since a lot of the vehicles were probably destroyed in July and August). By the second day of September the numbers had jumped to a total of around 220 destroyed vehicles of which 190 were government vehicles and around 2 dozen were rebel vehicles. In half a month the Ukrainian government definitely lost 76 vehicles (almost 5 vehicles per day)!
Checking it again today the numbers are 283 vehicles destroyed in total of which 247 were government vehicles, 27 were rebel vehicles and 9 were unknown as to who operated them for sure. So in the space of two days the Ukrainian government has lost 57 vehicles. That’s 28-29 per day.
It’s no wonder Poroshenko is ready to accept a ceasefire. They have been losing vehicles at 6 times the rate they were from mid August until the start of September and that too is almost 30 times the rate of the loss of vehicles from the start of the ATO until mid-August.
I found just this beautiful photo. Petro and Angela can still laugh.
http://deutsche-wirtschafts-nachrichten.de/2014/09/04/eu-macht-rueckzieher-keine-neuen-sanktionen-gegen-russland/
The article says: Before the imposition of new sanctions, the EU wants to await the outcome of the negotiations on a ceasefire in Minsk.
@ Saker,
If the number of wounded and dead hovers around 20K, how does that make 40K KIA JRF?
The first casualty of joining the army is innocence.
Here is a unit-by-unit analysis of Ukrainian Armed Forces:
http://acloserlookonsyria.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Ukrainian_Armed_Forces
There are some errors and omissions:
(1) Another about 500 members of the 30th brigade escaped but did not return to base (could have gone into hiding).
(2) Some of the Ukrainian Army’s 27th Rocket Artillery Regiment Destroyed by Grad Fire were recently destroyed:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1aa_1409858805
(3) Another 5-7 transport aircraft were shot down in trying to resupply the 24th, 72nd and 79th brigades according to Ukraine Army sources.
I would guess that there are about 49,000 Ukraine dead and wounded. Without possibility of evacuation a large percentage of the wounded will die, especially due to a lack of medical supplies and the deaths of their medics. Such conditions are very demoralizing especially under constant shelling day and night.
Of those who escaped, I would expect the majority to suffer from PTSD and will be unable to return to the front. The stories of the wounded and PTSD suffers will result in opposition to further mobilizations in most regions. I expect this would cause the Ukraine offensive to collapse. I have also heard rumors that the troops have not been paid recently which may result in a military strike!
After finishing off the remainder of Kolomiosky’s mercs in Meriupol Ukraine will be left with the 128th mechanized brigade and the poorly trained territorial battalions.
I would expect a complete riot of the remaining Ukraine army ithin a week if no cease fire is agreed on.
There is also a rumor of several thousand mercs being trained in Hungary for a Ukraine foreign legion offensive.
In the end, the collapse of the Ukraine economy will cause a total breakup of Ukraine.
@Andrew:
Galicia – 45 years with Moscow, 465 with Poland, 150 with Austria
Transcarpathia – 45 years with Moscow, 25 with Slovakia, 1000+/- with Hungary
Volyn – 170 years, 470 with Poland
Vinnitsia/Zhitomir – 220 years with Moscow, 420 with Poland
Kiev/Sumy/Poltava/Kharkov/Kirovohrad – 340 years with Moscow, 300 with Poland
Southern/Eastern Ukraine – 220 years, no Polish time of influence
Yes, though this is a little bit of an apples and oranges issues since being under, for example, Poland, does not necessarily mean converting to Latin Christianity. The best example of that is Trancarpathia vs Galicia. But what your figures do show is that there was A Ukraine by many Ukraines and that each region has its own history which has to be taken into account, ideally by a region by region referendum. Personally, when I see women from Galicia saying that they don’t want their men to die in the Donbass, I fully understand them and that makes me think that at least these women have a common goal with the people of the Donbass. Even Odessa is a special case, as is Crimea. Really, each region is a special case and from my point of view the only regions that I am referring to when I speak of a return to Orthodoxy are those which have a strong Orthodox tradition, *very roughly* the regions east of the Dniepr, and the Black Sea coastal areas. I believe that Russia would be far better off WITHOUT close ties with the rest of the Ukraine. The Dniepr is not a historically correct demarcation line, but the best I can think of. What about you, does this sound reasonable to you?
But whatever my personal opinion, in an ideal world I would have each region decide its future in a referendum. History is history, but current reality trumps it, imho.
Cheers,
The Saker