Today I would like to just share two thoughts with you and suggest that each and every one of you come to his/her own conclusions.
First, Russia was literally “sucked into” WWI by the Germany. Russia did not have to enter the war as Russia herself was not attacked. “Only” Serbia was. Russia was not ready to enter the war, but the Czar-Martyr Saint Nicholas II decided that it was his Christian duty was to take the defense of the Serbian people even if all pragmatic considerations were clearly advocating against a Russian intervention. This war soon turned out to be extremely costly for Russia and greatly contributed to the weakening of the Russian monarchy which eventually resulted in a Aristocratic-Masonic coup (February 1917) followed by a Jewish-Bolshevik coup (October 1917). Did the Czar do the right thing when he decided to defend the Serbian nation at the potential cost of his own Empire, the last Christian Empire in history? It is a fact that the Serbian Prince Alexander and the Serbian people have always shown an immense and sincere gratitude to the Russian people and to Czar Nicholas II (whose first icon was painted on a fresco in Serbia, not Russia). But Russia also liberated Bulgaria from the Ottoman yoke. We now see the kind of “gratitude” Russia got from Bulgaria. Will a liberated Novorossia be more like Serbia or more like Bulgaria?
Second, the level of outrage in Russia over the apparent Russian non-action in the face of what has now clearly become a systematic terror campaign against the people of Novorossia is immense. If Putin does not take action *very* soon he will face a very serious challenge from many sectors of Russian society including the media, the Duma and even his own party “United Russia”. My personal opinion is that this “wait and see” game was probably aimed at deliberately getting the Russian public opinion in a state of rage similar to the one which preceded the 2nd Chechen war but if that is so, then now the Russian society has reached boiling point and that if Putin does not act very soon a political explosion will take place in Russia. Every day now I see already “not so veiled at all” criticisms and expressions of disbelief at the Kremlin’s “shameful passivity”, and I am not talking about some small extremist party websites, but of the most watched and best known TV news and talkshows of mainstream Russian TV. Reporters which used to be very pro-Putin are now clearly and openly expressing frustration maybe not at Putin personally (yet), but at “Moscow”. But the writing is on the wall for Putin now. Furthermore, representatives of Novorussian authorities are now spending their time in Moscow going from one talk-show to another and making truly dramatic pleas for help. In other words, Putin is days away from what will become his political suicide unless he takes action. I would say that things have become so bad that even if the Novorossian Defense Forces have what it takes to keep the neo-Nazi death-squads mostly in check (and I believe that they do), the humanitarian situation is so bad (over 110’000 refugees already) that the pressure to have Russia intervene will continue to grow regardless of the military equation.
With these elements in mind, make your own conclusions now as to what Putin should/will do.
My personal belief is that a Russian intervention is imminent.
The Saker
Saker Message:
russia shpould run a proxy war as the anglo cowards do.
first world war-plotted by the English pirates against Russia and Germany.
“The kaiser was absolutely correct. The Secret Elite was prepared to use any nation as a cat’s-paw, and Russia became the victim of British trickery, manipulated into a different treaty that was designed not to protect her or the peace of Europe but to enable the Secret Elite to destroy Germany.”
“The Secret Elite did not accept that German economic and industrial success was a just reward for their investment in better education and new technology. Together with its burgeoning industry, and a brand-new merchant fleet that promised future colonial expansion , Germany was also beginning to invest in oil production in Romania and Galicia. This was even more alarming because the Secret Elite knew just how strategically important oil was for future industrial development and warfare. The German threat had to be removed, and war was the only means by which that could be achieved.
……”and he shared the Secret Elite philosophy for world dominance by the Anglo-Saxon race.”
…….”France and Russia were needed in a new capacity: as Britain’s friends and allies…..but were enacted for one single purpose: to throttle Germany.”
They clearly identified Germany as the enemy at the Empire’s gate and understood immediately that, on its own, Britain could not destroy her as a continental power.
THE ENTENTE CORDIALE WAS HAILED as proof positive of a new era of Anglo-French mutual understanding and friendship that would finally bury age-old antagonisms between the two. It did, but that was never its prime purpose. Pursuit of global dominance was at the core of every action taken by the Secret Elite, and the creation of alliances with France, followed some years later by Russia, were first and foremost arrangements of strategic necessity. Their large armies were required for the eventual destruction of Germany.
The huge armies of France and Russia were integral to the mammoth task of stopping Germany in its tracks. Put simply, the Secret Elite needed others to undertake much of their bloody business, for war against Germany would certainly be bloody.”
In addition to the new relationship that needed to be crafted with France and Russia, four prerequisites had to be met before Britain went to war with Germany. Each required dedicated and long-term planning.
Initially, Germany’s leaders were not overly concerned about the bitter anti-German rhetoric that followed the Boer War. Nor were they impressed by Britain’s overtures to France. They believed that a Westminster government would never sanction such an alliance. Germany’s basic mistake lay in a deep-rooted conviction that ‘Britain could never draw close to her traditional French enemy, and certainly not to her bitter Russian rival’. 18 Like everyone else, they held to the naive belief that parliamentary government was thriving in Britain, unaware of the growing power and influence being exerted behind the scenes. While the Germans were slow to understand what was happening, others were not. Count De Lalaing, the Belgian ambassador in London, clearly realised the dangers. On 7 February 1905, he wrote to the minister of foreign affairs in Brussels: The hostility of the English public towards the German nation is founded apparently in jealousy and fear: jealousy in view of Germany’s economic and commercial schemes; fear from the perception that the German fleet may perhaps one day become a competitor for naval supremacy … This state of mind is fomented by the English press, heedless of international complications … the spirit of jingoism runs its course unchecked among the people in England; and the newspapers are, bit by bit, poisoning public opinion. 19 How right he was, but what he did not appreciate was the extent to which ‘this state of mind’ was being orchestrated.
Docherty, Gerry; MacGregor, James (2013-07-04). Hidden History: The Secret Origins of the First World War (Kindle Locations 1165-1177). Mainstream Publishing. Kindle Edition.
@ Saker,
King, Kaiser, Tsar: Three Royal Cousins Who Led the World to War.
I offered a stay-at-home-dad a temporary [paid] job for the upcoming TV-pilot I’m about to shoot in October. He told me that he would bring his wife and baby to the set as well. No discussion, no question, just presenting a fact. That’s not how it works.
Why do people want Russia to do what it should not do? This is not a board game; this is blowing hot air into an inflatable monster aka WWIII. Have you missed the Second US guided-missile destroyer arrives in Europe?
“Permanently forward deploying four ships in Rota will enable us to be in the right place, not just at the right time, but all the time,” – US Navy Secretary Ray Mabus
Just sit and wait [help covertly], but do not show your cards. This thing is fought on so many different levels that I’ve lost sight over them.
Espina says
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article38848.htm
2302
If I may ask kindy when putin starts the red army towards kiev, not to stop till he reaches the outskirts of Tirana.
I don’t really agree with you, Saker.
I have been in Russia on and off in the recent months.
The media is ALWAYS in some sort of frenzy. But that’s the nature of the Russian media: they talk. And talk. And argue. And shout. And talk some more. And people watch and are entertained – or not. There is shouting from both sides. Etc and so on.
But the bottom line is: you keep forgetting, with the new fancy (very recent) name NOVOROSSIYA – New Russia – that we are still talking about citizens of Ukraine.
Putin’s prerogative is to Russia and RUSSIAN citizens. And they know it – or at least they hope so. And the regular people – the majority, the big silent majority – are watching in horror, but more than anything THEY DO NOT WANT ANOTHER WAR.
If anything, a messy intervention is what a political suicide is, for Putin, when it comes to Russians.
You see, unlike Americans, Russians know war. They know instability. And Russia is BARELY emerging from a dark era. Russians want to help, and hell, maybe even show some dignity, but at the end of the day it all depends on what kind of risk the country is taking.
Novorossiya is in trouble, sure. But they chose it – or some of them did. They also chose to remain behind when Maidanites overthrew Yanukovitch. They are paying too heavy a price, but the world is not fair, far from it.
Putin will wait for as long as possible, or longer. Will it feed the rhetoric of his enemies? Sure. Will the silent majority approve? Yes, I would bet money on it.
@ Anonymous,
Q: The Secret Origins of the First World War…
R: Those were rooted in the The Franco-Prussian War – 1870/71 and the British empire not wanting ‘competition.’
Germany lost World War I. In the 1919 Treaty of Versailles, the victorious powers (the United States, Great Britain, France, and other allied states) imposed punitive territorial, military, and economic provisions on defeated Germany. In the west, Germany returned Alsace-Lorraine to France. It had been seized by Germany more than 40 years earlier. Further, Belgium received Eupen and Malmedy; the industrial Saar region was placed under the administration of the League of Nations for 15 years; and Denmark received Northern Schleswig. Finally, the Rhineland was demilitarized; that is, no German military forces or fortifications were permitted there. In the east, Poland received parts of West Prussia and Silesia from Germany. In addition, Czechoslovakia received the Hultschin district from Germany; the largely German city of Danzig became a free city under the protection of the League of Nations; and Memel, a small strip of territory in East Prussia along the Baltic Sea, was ultimately placed under Lithuanian control. Outside Europe, Germany lost all its colonies. In sum, Germany forfeited 13 percent of its European territory (more than 27,000 square miles) and one-tenth of its population (between 6.5 and 7 million people). LINK
German colonial empire.
The complexity of simplicity never ceases to amaze me.
everyone should read this e book or printed version
Docherty, Gerry; MacGregor, James (2013-07-04). Hidden History: The Secret Origins of the First World War (Kindle Locations 1165-1177). Mainstream Publishing. Kindle Edition.
england softend russia by plotting for japanse war agasitn russia in 1905 then forced russai to fight agasint germany 9 years later. the plot was to kill germans and russian together for beenfit of anglosaxon evil empire which still existssadly.
only way tos top that is to attack england directly or indirectly through proxi and propaganda.
Harry Truman, U.S. president since Roosevelt, in 1941 said: “If the Germans will win up, we need to help the Soviet Union if they win Russian – help Germany. And let them kill as many as possible with each other. “
Woodrow Wilson, who secured re-election on a war avoidance platform in 1916, but then demanded a declaration of war against Germany in the following year in response to a demand from the Morgan interests that he prevent a looming British collapse.
“The First World War was by far the bloodiest conflict in human history up to that time. Schwartz and Skinner noted, “Woodrow Wilson proclaimed a war for democracy against ‘Prussian dictatorship,’ but that was propaganda. Germany had civil rights, an elected parliament, competing parties, universal male suffrage, and an unparalleled system of social democracy.” Germany was far more democratic than either the British or French empire.”
Think of that-Britain was looting two third of the world at the time and killing starving millions of people-and this Wilson comes to Britain rescue in name of protecting democracy! And that is exactly what these bastards mean when they utter democracy-that is a code word for them to attack other countries for furtherance of british interest.
Harry Truman, U.S. president since Roosevelt, in 1941 said: “If the Germans will win up, we need to help the Soviet Union if they win Russian – help Germany. And let them kill as many as possible with each other. “
Woodrow Wilson, who secured re-election on a war avoidance platform in 1916, but then demanded a declaration of war against Germany in the following year in response to a demand from the Morgan interests that he prevent a looming British collapse.
“The First World War was by far the bloodiest conflict in human history up to that time. Schwartz and Skinner noted, “Woodrow Wilson proclaimed a war for democracy against ‘Prussian dictatorship,’ but that was propaganda. Germany had civil rights, an elected parliament, competing parties, universal male suffrage, and an unparalleled system of social democracy.” Germany was far more democratic than either the British or French empire.”
Think of that-Britain was looting two third of the world at the time and killing starving millions of people-and this Wilson comes to Britain rescue in name of protecting democracy! And that is exactly what these bastards mean when they utter democracy-that is a code word for them to attack other countries for furtherance of british interest.
Harry Truman, U.S. president since Roosevelt, in 1941 said: “If the Germans will win up, we need to help the Soviet Union if they win Russian – help Germany. And let them kill as many as possible with each other. “
Woodrow Wilson, who secured re-election on a war avoidance platform in 1916, but then demanded a declaration of war against Germany in the following year in response to a demand from the Morgan interests that he prevent a looming British collapse.
“The First World War was by far the bloodiest conflict in human history up to that time. Schwartz and Skinner noted, “Woodrow Wilson proclaimed a war for democracy against ‘Prussian dictatorship,’ but that was propaganda. Germany had civil rights, an elected parliament, competing parties, universal male suffrage, and an unparalleled system of social democracy.” Germany was far more democratic than either the British or French empire.”
Think of that-Britain was looting two third of the world at the time and killing starving millions of people-and this Wilson comes to Britain rescue in name of protecting democracy! And that is exactly what these bastards mean when they utter democracy-that is a code word for them to attack other countries for furtherance of british interest.
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Document:Hidden_History
who was responsible for the first world war-?
The English controlled england and usa. Anglos.
All plotted by English race against the rest of free world.
=================================== In a speech to the Pilgrims Society in 1904, future US President Woodrow Wilson declared that “the Anglo-Saxon people have undertaken to reconstruct the world.” After the war, with Germany out of the way, the very same interests called for an international economic conference to reorganise the world’s financial and commercial structure (Ratiu, pp. 257, 259), etc., etc.
=====================================================================
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/WWI
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Document:Hidden_History
who was responsible for the first world war-?
The English controlled england and usa. Anglos.
All plotted by English race against the rest of free world.
=================================== In a speech to the Pilgrims Society in 1904, future US President Woodrow Wilson declared that “the Anglo-Saxon people have undertaken to reconstruct the world.” After the war, with Germany out of the way, the very same interests called for an international economic conference to reorganise the world’s financial and commercial structure (Ratiu, pp. 257, 259), etc., etc.
=====================================================================
https://wikispooks.com/wiki/WWI
anglos controlled england was responsible for first world war and subsequent second world wars too.
All plotted by English race against the rest of free world.
The Anglo-Saxon Empire for a century based on propaganda. It has succeeded to convince us that england controlled and directed the United States “the land of freedom” and that they provide only wars to defend their ideals. But the current crisis in Ukraine has changed the rules of the game: Washington and its English master are now no longer the only ones to speak. Your lies are openly challenged by the government and media of another major state, Russia. The Anglo-Saxon propaganda no longer works in the age of satellites and the Internet.
==================
All plots r done by the evil english race-read dumas interview-they pass the blame2 jews if turned unpopular.
England is head of the family. USA is just the loud mouthed son with a fancy car.
Even after french ex minster Dumas saying that english planned syrian terrorism years ago-rus talks?
england is running a WW3 agasint all non anglo nations ofociurse it needs american arms for that.
Gulf war plotted by witch thatcher, first iraq war by criminal tony blair-this syrian by english rat
only when wars become unpopular the english stoptaking credit for that nd let blame b placed on Jews
and stupid people including hitler blamed jews while it was all along the english parasites who loot.
england lives off protection money from the international criminals who get asylum in england 4 money.
biggest money laundering is done by the english race in london calling it service industry.
There is nothing these anglosaxon creatures enjoy more than hating others, either the poor and downtrodden, those of other races or religions.
anglophile kissinger promised british controlled gulf monarchies protection run by the british -usa.
World war one and two plotted and started by england.
Napoleaon’s attack on Russia plotted by england(to which the Great Napoleaon himself admitted).
Considering the extent of the disaster(at battle of Auterlitzs and of Ulm before that in 1805 instigated by england with money stolen from India), The Austrian Emperor said
“THE ENGLISH ARE DEALERS OF HUMAN FLESH, THEY PAY OTHERS TO FIGHT AT THEIR PLACE”.
The Emperor forgot to mention that the payment is from the victim or some other pople’s wealth.
And English are too coward to fight on their own-they have never won a single war on their own since boar war in 1899 and that too with all resources of loot from empire.
With a force that peaked at almost half a million men, more than double the entire Boer population of the Transvaal, against an estimated 40,000 Boers in the field, the British expected an easy victory. Easy?
Dear Saker,
I am saddened by the blood-letting that has been bank-rolled and run by the CIA in Ukraine. I am quite angry too at the same time because no matter how much blood is spilled it seems not to matter unless it is American or in the interest of the butchers in Washington.
As a Pakistani I have seen how barbaric the so-called western nations really are. How hypocritical they are and how evil they can be.
I want to help but I do not know how. The only thing I can offer is proof reading and editing of translated text. I consider myself quite proficient in the English language and feel I can add value.
I can also link your articles to my, really obscure, blog. The more reposts the merrier I suppose?
And here we go; Five Compelling Reasons For The U.S. To Offer Lethal Military Assistance to Ukraine.
@Daniel Rich
Re: Forbes propaganda piece
Daniel Rich,
Paul Roderick Gregory is a moronic paid shill that even other, more senior, Forbes contributers have attacked, ridiculed, and exposed. Nobody takes this one-track paid pro Kiev Junta idiot seriously, you’ll notice the majority of his commenter community tear him down on each of his articles.
The man has no following. His latest article (the link you provided) is a reflection of his own desperation for article attention and his frustration that his neocon religion has lost traction.
His article has no significance.
WWI was set up and one of the reasons was that Germany wanted to attack a RISING Russia before it became to strong. Russia was doing well at that time and surging upward, with great potential. The Germans were pressuring Austrians into that war.
Also, I don’t think Russian soldiers ever really got to Serbia to defend it did they?
Germany wanted an excuse to attack Russia.
In current news did you read the statements the President of Belarus, Alexander Lukashenko, made during a visit to Serbia?
Lukashenko claimed he was offering Serbia anti-missile defense before the NATO attack, and he said they were even prepared to fly them in under great risk. But that ultimately the deal didn’t go through because Milosevic didn’t think NATO would bomb Serbia.
There’ve many who’ve said that Belarus is more friendly and supportive towards Serbia/Serbs than Russia.
Cecil von Renthe-Fink is a mere footnote in the pages of history. A Prussian aristocrat who joined the Nazi Party in 1939, Renthe-Fink however has a claim to fame. In August 1943, he drafted a memorandum proposing a European economic union with a common central bank and currency. But there was a caveat – if the new union was to be a success, Britain must be kept out because according to the German diplomat it was “the continent’s ancient enemy”.
Today several nations, especially Russia, would agree with that assessment. With 66,000 of its nationals on the run from justice, and a large number of them having found asylum in Britain, Russia is the most affected by Britain’s policies.
Hello Saker,
Hey! My husband just had a great idea. Why doesn’t Putin take Novorossiya in exchange for the $4.5 billion Ukraine owes Russia for gas?
That would solve everything for everyone. :]
Love to all from across the water
The modus operandi of Britain is to make country and regions unstable and install british stooge with explicit instruction to bring the money -looted ones -to Britain from where it is not going to go anywhere else.
Some oligarch Jews (like thee criminal U.K.-based fugitive oligarch Boris Berezovsky)
were the stooge of British in Russia and they brought so many ill gotten money to uk. So did the Kuwaitis-who brought 4 billions of pounds within a week of first Iraq war problem in august 1990 -so has continued the massive loot of the rest of the world by the English .race through this money protection racket . It is money protection racket in the sense that those eliete’s money is protected only when it is made to be lodged in British London banks. The witness, who appeared on the Rossiya channel with his face hidden and was referred to as Pyotr, accused 61-year-old Berezovsky of killing Alexander Litvinenko because the former security officer knew how the exiled tycoon had obtained political asylum in Britain in 2003. This thief boris berezosvky is a terrorist as well who calls for violet end to Putin-the president who is one of the most loved of his countrymen compared to any in the world.
As someone said “We live in a world where criminals are good guys and patriots are villains: where Berezovsky is a liberal “human rights” activist and Putin is a moral monster.” that putin who is one of the most popular leader of any in the world.
say even if Russia destroys usa then if Britain or rather england is allowed to exist then the english parasitic dog race will ,by very parasitic nature, will try to disrupt Russia or other countries’ existence. therefore instead of attacking usa or poland it is best policy of Russia to attrack and destroy the english nation of pirates and evil satan.
I disagree that he will act with military soon.
He will act soon with subterfuge and guile, maybe. But tanks and planes?
The West will sanction him and begin the financial destruction plan in earnest.
The gas pipeline, the presentation at the UN, the White Paper to come on Human Rights Violations, are not severe enough to act with military.
Putin needs a border threat. The Ukrainian Army is pivoting large numbers of tanks along the border and something might happen as a “trigger”.
It can’t be a rescue. It has to be Kiev crossing a security line common to all nations. Artillery shots going wide into Russia. Humanitarian obscenity is possible.
Maybe he has devised a “shock to the system” event that will paralyze the military.
Encirclement, trapping, a massive forced surrender might be in the works.
I dont’ see it as yet. Putin may be taking verbal abuse inside Russia, but many ordinary folks don’t think Russia can be hurt by NATO or US/EU. He knows Russia can be hurt.
He won’t give in and act unless he has to because of facts on the ground, not noise in the street.
He has to protect Mother Russia. And there are other chips on the table he wants.
Everyone sees only Donbass. Odessa is imperative to keep NATO fleet away.
This is bigger than Donbass.
Putin is a sly fox. Kiev is a mirage of a country with no economic future. It is on life support. Putin is waiting for the economic health crisis in Kiev to degenerate into a catabolic state.
What I am feeling more than anything at this moment is acutely aware of how little we all truly know. And that is despite the best efforts of everyone here, as well as the great amount of information we have been able to obtain. This ISIS business — we certainly aided and abetted them in Syria but who really knows for sure what’s going on now? I suppose their heavy equipment ending up back in Syria is a good clue, but still…
And we think, are relatively sure, we’ve got all the relevant information as regards Novorossiya. And in terms of what’s going on there, we may — but what about all the back-channel stuff? What information might Putin have that we don’t — about American threats, about, oh gosh, just about anything. Again, for me, it’s a gut-heart thing: I’m so wanting him to go in there and stop those monsters cold, in a move just like Crimea. But there must have been — and may still be — reasons we’ll never fathom for his not doing so, and I never like jumping into something without all the facts I need. Otoh, I also know I’ll never, ever, get them here, so this is a very long way of saying, “I wish he would but only he knows whether or not he should.”
Otoh, here is another, extremely moving, song from the South East:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-JfO34vFDk
Lyrics:
Southeast!
My head is broken by disturbing dreams…
the air smells to civil war.
Nervous, they hit me, hammering…
a name jumps to the headlines: Southeast!
It is hard to fight cold and heat…
after so many years of hard work… we went backwards,
always controlled, there is no more time
grabbing a gun, the Southeast arises!
After the mad hope… there is a desperate cry,
miner rage… for the empty pockets,
how different to what books preach,
if we create soviets, partisans will come!
(Chorus)
Any person, via Internet, far away or close by,
will transmit… from the heart:
Peace in the cabins, peace in the huts,
war, war, war to the palaces!
Crawling in its tomb again, the brown plague,
came to the streets… blowing up the homes,
filling with the temples with carmine blood,
the Brest fortress is now the Southeast!
The thieves of the World want to eat,
gulping the peoples… in sandwiches for dinner,
but they have a knot in their throats and cannot swallow:
the path is blocked to the shameless ones, in the Southeast!
Day and night they stand guard,
full of illussions, of fears… tired of tricks and deceit,
but these people make history by themselves,
if we create soviets, partisans will arise!
(Chorus)
Believe me: borders are not so important
and what we have here is not paradise,
but the memory of the fallen that once lived here,
warms us up for struggle and to live today this way.
For each of them, for the comrade and brother,
let us put a knee on the ass of the fattened rats,
the date of the outcome is coming, its deadline.
The paths are being opened towards the Southeast!
Southeast!
h/t: http://periodicodigitalwebguerrillero.blogspot.com.es/2014/06/las-brigadas-internacionales-vuelven-en.html and http://forwhatwearetheywillbe.blogspot.com/
I wonder, the difference between Georgia attacking South Ossetia in 2008 and Ukraine attacking Novorussiya in 2014?
has russia armed to the teeeth her natural allies like syria and iran? no. why not?
to please her common enemy the anglos?
russia cnanot even occupie her enemy england and usa in proxi wart-that is why war comes to her door.
I think Russia should and will act before ominous NATO’s Rapid Trident “exercise” in July in Ukraine.
Daniel Rich,
Oh God. And he accuses Russia of sending tanks, missiles and APCs across the border in his very first sentence! (For those too nauseated to click on this piece, he waits until the third paragraph for this little plum:
“In contrast, analysts from Forbes.ua have placed a $250 million price tag on the two-month Donbass separatist operation paid by its shadowy Russian “sponsors.” The fifteen thousand $300-per-day mercenaries streaming across the border with their lethal weaponry account for most of this cost.
Russia has outspent the United States of America fifty times over on military assistance in the Ukrainian theater and by an infinite amount in terms of lethal assistance (a positive number divided by zero equals infinity).”
Forbes analysts, huh? I am wondering what they analyzed, and where. Also how much the author of this propaganda was paid for his stenography. And now I suppose The Mighty Wurlitzer will blast it everywhere.
Yes, we are definitely at war with Russia.
Please God, may Good triumph, not Evil.
Saker is probably on the money with this forecast.
Whilst ‘Moscow’ no doubt has any ‘intervention’ planned down to the finest detail, it also knows what such action will bring about from the US dominated west.
Russia will be isolated by the west – the US will get what it wants. The EU will be completely suborned and become nothing more than a protectorate.
The Germans are responsible for this – they have stood by and allowed the US to manufacture this ‘crisis’.
Russia must be prepared for NATO reprisal because once it takes action there will be no turning back.
For no apparent reason the Australian puppet government has
announced it stands ‘fully behind’ the US – presumably against Russia and China –
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/watch-this-space-julie-bishop-backs-us-20140617-3abn8.html
Gas pipeline transiting Ukraine hit –
http://rt.com/news/166532-gas-pipeline-blast-ukraine/
Russian journalists killed by artillery fire –
http://rt.com/news/166496-journalist-dies-ukraine-shooting/
Its about to get very interesting.
A proxy-war will not placate the Russian population.
I will repeat it because it bears repeating. Make it look like these oligarchs are dropping dead of heart attacks, advanced syphilis, whatever, and everyone will feel that either God isn’t on their side or that the Russians are smarter than they look
Saker, the ‘media’ is controlled/ bought ~ I don’t trust it anywhere, which is why I come here and other alternative sites… to get info first-hand, without all the filters.
Do you really trust what you see flowing across the TV screen?
According to Syrian Perspective, Syria is mopping up the terrorists (‘course the MSM still reports the opposite). Baghdad has not collapsed (but the MSM suggests it has because of a ‘tweet’ by (well, we won’t go there), and tells us that ISIL has stolen billions of dollars from banks, and ‘found’ billions more. (Pull the other leg!) I could go on an on… I haven’t watched TV here in US for 7 years. Get ‘news’ online. Al-jazera? Media puppet.
I’m rambling…sorry.
Russia’s play in Syria was outstanding… Crimea, outstanding. I have confidence in his judgment.
The current situation in Iraq is undoubtedly related and has somehow been engineered by the US.
The reason for it is unclear but as time roll on we shall no doubt see the reason.
An excuse to move more of the US military?
A wider conflict perhaps?
Anonymous said :
“The current situation in Iraq is undoubtedly related and has somehow been engineered by the US”.
This is my exact worry too. I dont believe a single word that comes out of the mouths of the evil scumbags anymore. The uncle tom president theyve got now said only a few days ago they werent going to put boots on the ground in Iraq and guess what it now turns out they are sending 275 marines to “protect” consulate premises there. How long before this 275 turns into several thousand troops ? What we are seeing is a re-invasion of Iraq.
Let us remember that nearly two years ago Iraq was relatively quiet , the axis of evil was concentrating its efforts on toppling president Assad in Syria, but then president Maliki wasnt playing ball with the axis of evil and was actually supporting Assads fight against the axis of evil by allowing Iranian cargo planes carrying weapons for Assads troops to cross Iraqi airspace etc, which didnt at all please the “exceptionals”. I diistinctly remember the prime minister of Turkey erddogan openly threatening Maliki that what was happening in Syria would also start happening in Iraq and believe it or not it was only a week or so after erddogan making that statement that all hell broke loose in Iraq with terrorist atrocities and murders becoming severely ramped up and it has continued till the present day. Not to also mention Gazproms investments in Iraq what we are seeing is the empire opening a new front in its war against Russia. The takfiri cut throats are the storm troopers of the empire, pure and simple. These people and their paymasters are evil beyond imagination.
@crone:Do you really trust what you see flowing across the TV screen?
I don’t even have a TV…
The Saker
Jewish-Bolshevism? What’s that? Lenin welcomed Jews because Communism should be universal. He was a true disciple of Marx who said Workers of the World Unite; not, except for you Jews, you get your own club. You speak of ingratitude: when it was Commander Lenin and the comrades who took Russia out of the war; they who drove out the invaders and gave Russia back her dignity. Lenin was a true humanitarian, he didn’t just kneel beneath the icons and mutter pious nostrums, he DID something about the horror Russia faced. And don’t give me that malarkey about Lenin being in the pay of Wall Street, ie Jews, they thought they could dupe him but he outfoxed them.
I think Russia/Putin should definitely step up some kind of “indirect” help that might include military advisers, more weapons, no fly zone, more volunteers and whatever else that can’t be qualified as an openly direct involvement by the outside world. Putin should also drastically improve his media game; RT is great but not enough. Russia should have something similar to the BBC world services, broadcasted in as many languages as possible. In the world where perception is everything – truth is meaningless. Obviously, mastering superficiality is a very deep science and I don’t think people in Russia understand how it all works in the west. Also, Russia does not have a tightly knit Diaspora like the Ukrainians or Armenians do. For instance, I saw many Ukrainian guest/speakers in the western Universities who are very active at peddling the Kiev’s/Washington narrative but not a single messenger from the Russian side. This has to change! Urgently!
My ex-girlfriend is a radical activist from London and after my recent conversation with her, I was shocked to see how little she knew about the latest events in Ukraine. She said to me that the media truth has to find us, not the other way round. The populous is extremely misinformed and mythologized by the Hollywood.
The layers of lies can’t be broken by only conventional means and this is where Russia has to invest as much as possible.
The Saker’s doubts are noted, but there is a very solid counter argument that the US is preparing for a nuclear first strike against Russia:
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/06/17/washington-beating-war-drums-paul-craig-roberts/
http://www.opednews.com/populum/printer_friendly.php?content=a&id=180039
False flag operation is no doubt no underway somewhere in US soil…
German Left Party on Ukraine:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIi4a7ri-dc
English Subtitles
Did the Czar do the right thing when he decided to defend the Serbian nation at the potential cost of his own Empire, the last Christian Empire in history?
No. The Czar was suckered into WW1 — by the Anglo-Zionists — the same way Putin was suckered (more or less forced) into war in Novorossia.
The exact same is happening today as Iran is suckered into a regional war via Iraq.
Since everyone ignores mainstream propaganda nowadays I wonder if anyone noticed the enormous public shift on Iran.
A U.S.-Iran alliance on Iraq is a tricky issue — CBS News
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/a-u-s-iran-alliance-on-iraq-is-a-tricky-issue/
We Have Always Been At War With Eastasia (Iran, Russia, China). We will always be at war with Eastasia except when we’re not.
US ready to ally with Iran on Iraq crisis — Times of India
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/US-ready-to-ally-with-Iran-on-Iraq-crisis/articleshow/36688780.cms
The Empire’s shock troops will soon be working alongside the Iranian Revolutionary Guards in downtown Baghdad.
Whoopie!
If you’re enjoying the mobilization, you’ll love this next video from Hassan Nasrallah.
Haters or the otherwise intimidated should also watch since Big Brother (temporarily) approves of Iran — thus making Hezbollah a friend, ya know, of a friend.
SYRIA Hassan Nasrallah’s best speech on Syria (engl. subtitles) Highly recommended!
https://www.youtube.com
And for anyone who doubts the nuclear option is on the table – do some research about the vast underground facilities that have been constructed in the US over the past decade.
Saker,
You’ve done us one better: we do have one, but we had it packed away and couldn’t even remember where on 9/11, so went madly looking everywhere. We finally did find it and hook it up but haven’t looked at it since… ;~)
In agreement with a poster on another thread:
Russia really, really needs to up its propaganda game. Before reading this post, I was just thinking in terms of the rest of the world; but why does Putin not have his spokespeople and flaks covering the Russian talk shows and news cycles with explanations of Putin’s action/inaction? They don’t even have to be true (we know that from our own Western media) – but they do have to placate and encourage the masses. Why isn’t this happening? Or is it, and it just isn’t making a dent?
Like the other poster, I’ve been shaking my head at the apparent inability of Russian political leaders to understand the imperative to communicate – immediately, clearly and constantly – in this day and age when the news cycle grows shorter and shorter by the day. Yes, some of them have twitter accounts, but that’s a tiny percentage of who they need to reach.
The propaganda war is every bit as important as the shooting war, and it’s frustrating, to say to least, to see it being so neglected, especially on the home front where it could be buying Putin precious time.
/okay, I’m starting to sound like Strelkov. I’ll shut up ;-)
I understand what you’re saying, Saker. For Putin to make an open military strike in Ukraine would be doing exactly what the Empire wants him to do, but the provocation has reached a point where even the appearance of doing nothing (whatever covert help he might be giving) will be causing him to lose valuable support.
If the time has indeed come for decisive action, then here are my thoughts on how it could have a positive result.
If Putin does take military action, he’d better make it lightning fast and decisive, and then move straight into the Mid East before that Empire-orchestrated chaos gets into top gear. Oh, and with his other hand, he ought to pull whatever strings he’s got to take down the Western banking system in a hurry. Not just give it a setback- actually destroy it. Now would be the time to strip the gears and blow the transmission on the Imperial Machine.
At some point, the balance must indeed shift. At present, The Empire holds enormous power to manufacture consensus and keep dissent suppressed through “normalcy bias.” We’re living in one of those times when long-held assumptions can change very quickly. If Russia makes a bold move, it cannot afford to then step back to a neutral position and assume the posture of supplicant to the Empire’s awesome power. Any bold step must be taken with the confidence that the Empire’s power has already ended, and I believe the genuine public consensus would follow.
My husband once told me the proper way to win a fight. He said that many guys make the mistake of aiming at the other guy’s face. Instead, one should aim the punch at a point several feet behind the head, thus taking a hard swing just as if that head was nothing but a shadow. Our instincts tend to make us ease our efforts somewhat as we near our objective, and fear of the face makes us hesitant.
I think The Empire expects to achieve its objectives through the fog and chaos of a widespread war. The Empire honors no alliances; all it sees are tools and pawns. Its aim is absolute- total destruction, and domination of whatever remains. If it succeeds, in the end, even its hypocrisy will be lost in the fog of war, and another generation of fraudulent history, written by the victors.
I sure hope that doesn’t happen. This is looking like The Last Chance Saloon and all I can do is hope that the Empire is too drunk to notice that the plot line has just changed.
Interview with Vladimir Rogov, a politician and activist from Zaporozhie: he says that the Kiev junta plan is to have several explosions in different sections of the Urengoy-Pomari-Uzhgorod pipeline, which goes through central and western Ukraine. This is a planned sabotage of the gas flow to Europe. According to Rogov, this was done following direct US orders. The main goal is to sabotage Russian gas supplies to EU, thus inflicting maximum damage on Russian and EU economies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Bw_kuQcIeU
Dear Saker,
On this one I am on the same side as Larchmonter 445. Some recent polls that were done in Russia show that by 63 or 65 percent, an overwhelming majority of the population does Not want to get dragged into a war in South-East Ukraine. Putin and his government must be acutely aware of this and they can’t just listen to some aggressive nationalist hotheads who are anxious to charge in with all guns blazing, exactly what the Washington Neocon cabal is hoping and waiting for to start a wide open, no holds barred campaign against Russia, which Russia is not yet prepared to deal with adequately.
You seem to idolize “Saint” Nicolas the Second who plunged Russia into a disastrous war which set the country back for a hundred years, but VV’s task is not to emulate that epic example of failure, but rather to steer Russia through these challenging times and to have her come out stronger and in a better position than she was in before all this unpleasantness began in earnest back in the Fall and Winter of 2013.
How could the extreme nationalists challenge the president who brought back Crimea into the fold without a single shot being fired. In fact both the so called “liberals” and the extreme nationalists have had the rug pulled out from under them by the brilliant and flawless maneuver to return Crimea to Russia.
The best way to deal with the Ukraine situation is to let the Ukies trash their own nest and try to pass on the bill afterwards to the EU and the US.
If there is a flow of refugees into Russia that is not such a bad thing, as Russia can use the extra people to make up for the catastrophic population decline that occurred during the Eltsyn years.
Respectfully,
American Russophile
Dangerous situation just now; I am hoping that the RF has been playing “rope a dope” as in the “Rumble in the Jungle”. This strategy may be painful to behold, and tragic at an individual level, but would reap great benefits with time.
On a completely unrelated topic, I have just come across a prime example of American cluelessness in action. The article at http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/06/17/voices-ukraine-americans/10224717/ is an American journalist’s account of how he had, for the first time in 12 years of visiting the Ukraine, had encountered in your face anti-Americanism. That it was at a memorial service at the Trade Union building in Odessa might have given him a clue why. Has he even bothered to look up and see the images of what took place there?
A read-through of his career at http://en.tengrinews.kz/author/15/ shows him to be widely experienced and traveled which makes it worse so WTF. What if Russia had spent 5 billion on destabilizing Mexico and overthrowing its government with a promise to establish nuclear missiles on the border with the US as well as aboard ships in the Carribeann. What would the average American think about that!
At the end he concluded that America had a lot of work to do to win the hearts and minds of the millions of Ukraine’s Russia-leaning population i.e. it needed lots and lots of re-branding. He may have been saddened and sobered that day but if he really wanted to know the truth, let him spend a weekend in Slaviyansk to see what the consequences of just what his government is enabling.
Oops. Here’s the Nasrallah video link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USXh-yDxtO0
Enjoy.
While eastern Ukraine is being flattened by Kiev heavy artillery and Grad rockets the western mass mainstream media is, as one man, almost silent.
There are a number of clever ways in the information war to unlock this shameful and utterly disgraceful mode of ‘looking the other way’.
There are 2 critical perspectives here, which I accept, that reflect badly on Putin’s management of the conflict and need to be addressed:
1) Militarily speaking, it’s not necessary to send in the Russian army; mercenaries, advisers, heavy arms shipments, and secret operations against Kiev’s rear would greatly enhance the Dombas resistance. Not enough seems to be happening at this level.
2) The propaganda front in the West is also totally inadequate. Stalin (who I think is a more attractive figure than Lenin insofar as he was an anti-internationalist — i.e., an anti-globalist) knew how to sow dissension in the enemy camp. A few million rubbles spent in Germany and France would do wonders in dividing the Anglo-Americans.
Perhaps all the noise from within Russian society is coming from the fifth column (within government and media). This is the reaction they are striving for, to pressure Putin. I don’t think this kind of pressure will make Putin act. I agree with Larchmonter445 who said that He won’t give in and act unless he has to because of facts on the ground, not noise in the street.
This video link that Dusty posted in another thread yesterday was so absolutely educational, interesting and even entertaining (the exchange between the reporters and Evgeny Fedorov) that I must thank Dusty and re-post it again. I highly recommend it. It deals in more big picture and the long game.
Evgeny Fedorov, Deputy in State Duma – on Fifth Column
It is my understanding of one of Fedorov’s comments that when the USA tries the “Moscow Maidan” that would be a good opportunity for Moscow to purge it’s fifth column.
Ukraine-Russia Near “Serious Conflict” Following Explosion In Largest European Gas Transit Pipeline
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-17/ukraine-russia-near-serious-conflict-following-gas-transit-pipeline-explosion
Enjoying the World Cup?
Anonymous 00:29,
You are absolutely right about Russia and the PR game. I dona’t know whether they’re too sensitive about the old propaganda or simply rebelling too far against it — there is, after all, a lot to be said for telling the truth. (It would be quite nice if our media tried it some time.) But for people not on the scene — i.e., the rest of the world — the deliberate misinformation is getting blared at them all the time and it really would be helpful if more effort was made to package, present and hammer home the facts of what is really going on. Ideally, one shouldn’t have to, but this is the real world and there are massive efforts underway by its dying-but-still-very-dangerous hegemon: please, Russia, put some effort into getting out the truth! Like, NOW!!!
Anonymous 00:30,
I’ve been warning folks of a (probably ISIS-related) false flag here for some time now — ever since the spook types started warning us there were US citizens in ISIS who would come back here and, gosh, golly gee, they didn’t think they’d be able to find them in time. HUH?? Watch whatever it is neutralize all the Patriots, or at least aim them the wrong way.
Lordy, I wish we didn’t live in such “interesting” times! No one deserves what is being done.
re: Daniel Rich 17 June, 2014 23:36 & Nora 18 June, 2014 00:05
Wow, that is truly a fascinating must-read by a True Believer. It’s probably the purest grade-A, unadulterated, incestuous amplification article I’ve ever read, direct from the Ministry of Truth. It’s a veritable little Malleus Maleficarum of our times…
Of course, in the comments, anyone who challenges him on specifics is dismissed as a troll… If you’re going to burn innocents as witches then you’ve got to keep your belief pure.
Saker,
Don’t you think think that the oligarch/mafia and their families should be tracked and targeted for rendition to a war-crimes tribunal by Russian intelligence?
Shouldn’t special forces (Spetnaz) be utilized to hunt down and bring these murders to justice (their families too since organized criminals always involve their own family members in the most sordid part of their criminal business – it is a Mafia after all). And, if the Spetnaz should meet armed resistance while trying to apprehend these criminals, then deadly force is a logical consequence.
Also shouldn’t the Russian Duma pass a special law for mass-murdering war criminals where by the death penalty is authorized for these crimes?
Why bother with idiotic large scale assaults when precision targeting of the head of the snake can achieve a complete collapse of the junta-nazi mass murder campaign in Eastern Ukraine. (Along with large scale covert supply of both men and materials to NDF: the ground war should carried out by local forces so that they build a sense of nationhood and ownership; something that would not take root if Russia did that part for them).
Some of these rather stupid oligarchs and junta members make very public spectacles of themselves, so locating and targeting them for pinning down and capture should not be hard.
The point I’m making is that if Russia really wanted to, they could have had Kolomoisky, Yatsencrook, Torturenov, the braided-bitch tymochenko, yarosh-the-MI6-plant, the cartoon-goon Oleg donkeybok et al all in a monkey-cage in Moscow or worse. So why haven’t they done that?
That is a question that needs to be answered. … and dont sell me the idea that Russia is scared/concerned due to image reasons or the economy, I dont buy it. Russia didnt give a sh– when they crushed the tie-chewing lunatic’s laughable attempt to seize South Ossetia: Russia crushed his army and hunted down and shot both Nato and Israeli ‘freelancing’ advisors that took part in helping the Georgian side; Russia was in a far weaker position then (vis a vis NATO/US) and America was in a much stronger military and economic position then compared to now. Despite the aforementioned conditions, that didn’t stop Russia from launching a very overt and decisive Blitzkrieg.
So Russia has a no problems with using more overt means to deal with this problem. Therefore, the reason to stall and hold has to be something else.
By now, like the Syria situation, enough of the truth regarding the Ukraine situation has (via the internet) broken thru the wall of lies in the anglo-saxon media. Putin could act with zero bad PR impact or spin from the MSM (than what is being done now).
There is NO way that Western publics and the Pentagon leadership will allow any kind of military confrontation with Russia if they were willing to stop the intervention on Syria. So Western bluffing and puffing over Ukraine cannot be a factor when they so quickly folded and turned-tail in the stand-off with Russia over Syria.
Moscow has been asked, not so politely, to surrender – pay Ukraine’s debts and accept a NATO presence on Ukrainian soil. Instead Russia annexed Crimea and massed troops on the Ukrainian border. I think this shocked Washington and the overheated reaction was partly in fear that Russia would move in quickly – something they were not prepared to counter. Now Washington seems intent on provoking intervention – are they better prepared?
While I am not in favor of overt intervention for fear it will isolate Russia and have uncertain and perhaps dire consequences, I see the developing Ukrainian state as an evil affair run by some of the worst scum of the Ukrainian political class. If allowed to take root it will be a continuing source of harm and trouble – and likely a base for NATO armaments. I don’t see that as a tolerable option for Russia. I frankly don’t know what the next move is, but the status quo seems like it won’t persist. Not very insightful thoughts – what can I say…
It is remarkable that on the 100th anniversary of the start of World War I, that we are headed right down the same path of destruction and killing, but this time on a scale unimagined. I’m sure that Putin is aware of this and that this is one reason that he has not sent Russian troops into Eastern Ukraine. As I have said before on this blog. There are too many in the American government who believe that they can trade lives for world domination, even in the case of a nuclear war. Many of us have already concluded that the real reason for the so-called anti-missiles on the Russian borders is to intercept a response to United States first strike. I believe it was on this blog that someone mentioned that friends of theirs saw many more bombers coming into bases in Britain then were being declared in Western media. Other sources that I read today have now stated that these bombers are armed with nuclear standoff missiles. This presents a real conundrum, and that these bombers can also be used as a false flag to implicate Russia instead of themselves in a nuclear first strike. This would give all of the warmongers in the Pentagon and elsewhere in the American government all they need to launch every nuclear missile into Russia, destroying it once and for all. As I said before, I think Putin knows this and has to tread very carefully to avoid the destruction of the world. The insanity that is gripping Washington DC and London and the rest of the “English-speaking world” could well mean the end of the world. This is why I do think that Russia cannot make any move at all without fully thinking it through. It’s not a question of just protecting those anguished lives in the Eastern Ukraine, it becomes a question of protecting the entire world. The media in the West as thoroughly villainized Russia through its leader in the same way that it has started all of its misbegotten wars. Other sources today also say that Russia has moved 80,000 troops to forward positions; as the United States maneuvers Russia closer to being the villain, it’s only the discipline of the leadership in the Kremlin that’s keeping the world out of war. Iraq is a distraction as the United States continues its buildup in Britain and elsewhere on its insane quest to end human life on this planet forever. So as badly as we feel, and as helpless as we are in our supposed democracies that really do not seem to exist, we must not be distracted by the main goal of those who really run the planet. It is the British were calling for a population reduction because there are too many people on the planet, they say. Instead of working together and launching the human race into space, they would rather kill everybody. I say again, we are facing a truly insane bunch of rulers who we must uncover and replace with a servant class that will work for the good of everyone on the planet, man and animal. To do this, we must first survive his latest attempt to suck the world into a nuclear holocaust.
The fellow who claimed that Putin / The Russian State only has an obligation to see to the safety of Russian Citizens practices an odd legalism for something as magnificent and mysterious as life.
We all have obligations to others, some more (as in the case of our families) some less (as in the case of people on the other side of the planet). But we are obliged nonetheless.
If Putin / The Russian State is not completely obligated to use the full power of the Russian State to defend non-citizen Russians, then the obligation is certainly near-complete.
The material fact is that depending on the nature of the conflict The Russian State either holds the upper hand (as in border skirmishes), is on parity (as with nukes)or is weaker than the West (as with economic and media war).
It would behoove Putin / The Russian State to attempt to shape the conflict towards a style wherein they have the advantage. But the Enemy is also trying maneuver Russia into a weakened position. Putin / the Russian State has a moral obligation not to enter into the conflict in a weakened position. So it becomes a dance.
The trouble with Putin / The Russian State is that he stopped dancing in the run up to the D-Day Memorials, where he hoped to use personal diplomacy (his weakest card) to substitute a negotiated settlement for murder in Donbas.
Because he stopped dancing the West just laughed in his face “sure, sure Vlad, we look forward to future talks on the matter!”
It appears he has learned his lesson as with the closing of the gas (which should have been done the moment the govt of Kiev tried to solve the problem with force rather than negotiation). Kiev responded by inexplicably blowing up the pipeline. This is a strong signal from the puppet masters that they and their puppets in Kiev are fully aware that they are using Ukraine as a kamikaze to destroy Putin’s opposition to the New World Order.
So Putin / The Russian State has to dance. Fortunately the Saudi Arabians have given them cover by royally screwing up the Iraq Withdrawal and the Syrian Civil War and the hoped for withdrawal of American Forces from Iran, not to mention the economic and diplomatic blockade of Iran.
How should Putin dance? He has shut off the gas, next it must be other levers of economic power against Ukraine. The average person in the Ukraine has to feel it in the pocket book so the dreams of the Infinite Checkbook of the West turn into a nightmare. It must be non-lethal aid to Donbas. It must be a diplomatic flurry wherein he states very tersely and unambiguously that the full power of The Russian state will be used to protect Russians.
As cracks open up in the Western phalanx (as they immediately did with the shutting off of the gas), then he applies more pressure with military defense of civilians. Make the Ukraine bomb Russian troops. If they do, well, you have broken the Western Phalanx, and factions will rush to the negotiating table for the agreement that was reached months ago.
Why did that agreement fail? Putin balked at “sectoral” sanctions and wanted a breather. The West rightly interpreted that as a sign of weakness and started a full scale civil war.
Lesson learned?
Too late for the dead children, though.
I have a theory about Putin’s inaction. It may well be wrong, but here it goes:
I haven’t been hearing any noises about the Ukraine’s admission into NATO. Why? Because the Ukraine is a party to a territorial dispute? Don’t make me laugh. Perhaps NATO isn’t talking about admitting the Ukraine because it thinks that if it does that, Putin will intervene, saving as much of the Ukraine from NATO’s clutches as he can without engendering a long-term terrorist problem for Russia. Terrorists need civilian support. No one will be willing to hide Right Sector guys from authorities in Donestk or Kharkov, but in Kiev and points west many will.
What we’re seeing could be a standoff about NATO membership. If Putin moves into Eastern Ukraine, NATO will immediately swallow the West and Center. If NATO admits all of the Ukraine, Putin will immediately take the East. If neither side moves, the status quo continues. Unfortunately the status quo involves lots of people dying.
Does this sound plausible to anyone here?
I agree that Putin must act. In my opinion if there ever was a moment to threaten, this is a time. He would be speaking truth if he said the SE bombardment was threatening Russian stability and that he was officially giving Kiev warning that he will correct the situation if they don’t halt their war incursions within 24 hours. I think that may well change the mind of Posh, and if not, it is clear to the West what he is doing.
Gayle has good point:
“why does Putin not have his spokespeople and flaks covering the Russian talk shows and news cycles with explanations of Putin’s action/inaction?”
I also agree with her comment on the propaganda war front.
Russia should not and will not launch an open attack because Novorassia is suffering…painful though that may be. Russia SHOULD and WILL launch an invasion of Ukraine if they feel that a fascist government will otherwise be there to stay. Such a country under the current Nazi wannabe leadership will be a serious threat to Russia. If the current junta retakes control of East Ukraine, western aid will keep pouring in. Yes, they will find the money from somewhere. There will never be another real election. Anti Russian propaganda will be everywhere and over time can turn most of the population against Russia. “Ukrainian” will be forced down their throats. The US/EU will subsidize the Ukrainian economy because that would be by far the cheapest way to hurt Russia. A hundred billion would be a bargain if it could bring them closer to Maidan in Moscow.
Now that all assumes they retake East Ukraine. If they can’t then quite possibly the Ukie junta will indeed collapse. But if they can…
This brings us to the next question of what kind of intervention, as Russia’s choice is not between “doing nothing” and “Marching to Lvov.”
1) Remobilize the Russian military and bring it right on the border. I understand Russia doesn’t need to do that for an actual attack. But I think it has an enormous psychological value and makes mid level Ukie officers and soldiers much more reluctant to carry out war crime orders. That’s probably why the west was throwing such a fit about it before.
2) Recognize Novorassia as a sovereign nation and enter into a mutual defense agreement with them. This might pretty much put an end to Ukie attacks and without Russia having to fire a shot.
3) Destroy Ukie grad and artillery positions. A more serious intervention and the Ukies could then hide in populated areas. It should be done by surprise and hopefully quickly…but these things can easily get out of hand. Mission creep and all.
4) Enter into East Ukraine and secure it with ground troops. I would think the other options are much better, but I guess this could be done.
5) Invade Ukraine…All of it. Take Kiev, try to capture as much of the junta as possible and put them on trial for war crimes. This is definitely Cold War 2, probably much worse than the last one. There will be no turning back so this is by far the most extreme position and should be done only if Russia’s back is to the wall.
There are many costs to all of these things and they get worse as you go down the list. They should be done only if Novorassia will be lost and the Ukie government appears here to stay.
where-wolf, you didn’t provide a link to the youtube video of nasrullah speaking.
Gayle:
At the end of the day, now I think that Sochi was that attempt, to be honest. We all know how that turned out. I think Putin and the Russians, over all, came to see that as a turning point and see no further need to spend $$$ on making the Western press/general public be more accepting of Russia and all things Russian. Instead, he is pivoting East and it’s duly noted.
You can also tell that Putin is completely silent. Lavrov speaks, so do others, but there is no rhetoric coming from Kremlin, and Putin has never been afraid to talk – remember his editorial in NYT last year? – indeed.
So, we are not seeing the whole picture. We are seeing people dying, though, and that’s heartbreaking. But with NATO about to do war games next door, an invasion would be tantamount to an open declaration of war – Russia is not stupid enough to do that. If this whole conflict is about a provocation, which on the surface it is, Putin will not rise to it, too much is at stake. I think the majority of Russians understand that, as well, because they generally tend to be now a politically savvy bunch, even the simpler folk – after the recent 70+ years of crap, who wouldn’t be?
Anyway. My point is that no matter what he does now, it is not true, in my opinion, that his (obvious) inaction is political suicide. What you are seeing in the Russian press, is liberals/intelligentsia doing what they do best: TALK, DISCUSS and LOOK/SOUND SMART.
The majority is watching and praying for there to be no war and the longer there is none, the more popular the president is.
@EVERYBODY: Ok, it appears that my reference to the last Russian Czar as “Czar-Martyr Saint Nicholas II” has triggered a few of angry, vitriolic, condescending or otherwise dismissive emails and comments (which I judged ignorant, illiterate and rude enough to be directly sent to the trash bin). When I wrote these words I pretty much knew that this would happen, but then I never believed in self-censorship anyway, so I wrote it the way I normally speak it. I have no desire, time or energy to explain this formulation. I will just note that the Russian Orthodox Church has officially glorified (= “recognized and proclaimed the sainthood” of) the last Czar along with his family and those who were killed with them in 1981 along with the millions of other Orthodox Christians who were murdered by the Bolsheviks and their successors following the 1917 revolution. Most Orthodox Russians fully agree with that decision, as do I. I don’t expect others to agree with me, but please allow me to use the words I want without rudely accusing me of cultism, fetishism and other such things.
Thank you.
The Saker
Saker you are just inviting to the charge of antisemitism with some of your words. Anglo-zionism instead of Western or US imperialism and Jewish Bolshevism instead of, well, Bolshevism.
Surely you are aware that Nazi Germany’s major enemy, at least as described in mass propaganda, was “Jewish Bolshevism”, not Russians, not their Russian orthodox church, not Slavs or untermenschen. You invite the charge of antisemitism borrowing terms like that from the Nazis.
American Russophile: my points exactly. Apart from the stridency in the media and among the liberals/intelligentsia and the like, the majority do NOT want to be involved, as much as they feel bad for the Novorossiya. Ukraine is drinking a bitter potion now, and people are dying – the bitterest there is – but this has been a long time coming, and the Russians know this. This is a fever, and the patient will either get through it or die, or have limbs amputated, but time for major invasive surgery is not upon us yet.
Eh… Whatever the Russian media might be saying, it nearly completely ignored the “Meeting for the support of Novorossiya” that took place in Moscow on the 11th of this month. Now, this was being advertised by such “giants” of Russian Nationalist thought as, for example, Holmogorov, and popular bloggers like Putnik or Colonel Cassad. A staggering amount of people showed up, a vast crowd of… 6000 people. Well, it was more like 3-4000, actually. Those gathered have demanded that Putin introduce the no-flying zone over Donbass, that he send tanks and arty pieces to Strelkov, stop deliveries of gas to Ukraine, etc. Yea, all FOUR thousand of them… Out of a city of 12,000,000. Pardon me while I wipe away my tears of… joy… Hehe.
Saker, the popular feeling toward an armed intervention into Donbass in Russia is in fact not at all that positive about the idea. Mostly because the popular sentiment towards the newly rediscovered “brothers” in the Donbass is far from uniformly warm and welcoming. And Strelkov’s panicky, shrill *ultimatums* to Russia are *really* not helping at all. Sure, nationalists get fired up by them. But most Russians remember that the nationalists marched alongside the White Ribbon crowd in 2011-12…
BOPOH
I noted your use of “Czar-Martyr Saint Nicholas II”. It certainly was not objectionable to me since it appeared as a genuine statement of your faith. If someone deep in history achieves the status of sainthood then it is no business of mine to question their beliefs in real life links to the spiritual world.
Re: The British effort to keep Central Asia (Russian and China) from aligning with central Europe, (Germany) against the maritime powers (the British and the US) was described by H.J. Mackinder in the following 1904 essay. It makes clear by inference that the Anglo-Americans are determined to keep Germany and Russia separated, if not killing one another, at any cost, lest they combine their resources and know-how to challenge Anglo-American dominence.
THE GEOGRAPHICAL PIVOT OF HISTORY
http://tinyurl.com/nag69uk
From what I read, it seems that Strelkov has what he asked. I wonder what is the quality and quantity of the goodies. I am somewhat agree with you that NAF may be able to take care of everything itself if they are equipped adequately. However, the war is win one battle at a time, if RF wait too long, the train of public opinion may speed out of station with out it.
However, the war time table can be sped up by encourage UKR soldiers to change sides. Someone need to hack into their radios (if you are not already) and let them know what is going on, get them to NAF side, or encourage them to surrender and go home with their family.
Glossy,
No, that doesn’t seem plausible to me. NATO couldn’t easily move into Western Ukraine – the kind of force needed is a logistical problem, and Russia would have options, such as to take Kiev and let the US have Lvov.
And the bigger thing is that the current situation is not tenable. Novorossiya will collapse at some point, and Kiev will be at risk of massive problems soon as well. So a deal over NATO is only good for a few weeks, as nothing the US promises can be trusted at all.
Be patient. It may appear Mr. Putin is not reacting to the atrocities in Ukraine or to western propaganda war.
Far from it. Mr. Putin is a lawyer who knows there are several elements to building a strong case. Building a strong case requires detail preparation.
Refugees. (Any cookies for the refugees?)
Shelling residential areas. (Samantha Powers R2P?)
Attack Russia’s embassy in Kiev. (Responsibility of Host country to protect)
2 Russian journalists killed (Poroshenko sent his condolences)
Explosion of gas pipeline (is said to be underwritten by “those who foment war”
Slow to saddle but ride fast.
The economic system is failing. Just imagine, FT reported that a cluster of western Central Banks printed 30 trillion and secretly invested in the stock Market. Where is the recovery? (h/t :Zerohedge http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-06-15/cluster-central-banks-have-secretly-invested-29-trillion-market)
So. Follow the money, what is set to implode. In money circles, the well connected sources expect Russia’s response will be delivered –“in about 3 weeks.. and we are nearing the end.”
Btw, Bulgaria’s energy minister said South Stream is inevitable. Contracts are being signed.
Anon Mongoose
Saker,
If Russia moves in, do you think a limited move would be a mistake? I think so, or at least would argue that the regime in Kiev must be removed and, at minimum, a large Novorossiya is needed. Perhaps the best thing would be to break the Ukraine into Lvov, Transcarpathia, Kiev, and Novorossiya. Let NATO and the EU into Lvov.
Putin September 2013:
Another serious challenge to Russia’s identity is linked to events taking place in the world. Here there are both foreign policy and moral aspects. We can see how many of the Euro-Atlantic countries are actually rejecting their roots, including the Christian values that constitute the basis of Western civilisation. They are denying moral principles and all traditional identities: national, cultural, religious and even sexual. They are implementing policies that equate large families with same-sex partnerships, belief in God with the belief in Satan.
This is what we are really facing, all around the world today. I do believe is one serious aspect, that has set the Empire against Russia(modernly speaking anyways) Mr. Putin dare speak the truth, now the Empire demands that he pay for calling them out on their evil, lunatic, and psychotic ways. “How dare Russia call us out, and all our sins out in the light for all to see.” Punishment, so then begins. Although we all know HE wins in the end. The poor people being sacrificed for or the glory of the Empire, seems so demonically pathetic, and has no degree of understanding for me. Never will. Pray for Mr. Putin, he needs it now more than ever! Blessing All!
BOPOH,
You frequently seem to use the debate tactics of Jesuits – full of deflections and twisting of points. The media not hyping a demonstration of support for Novorossiya is not remotely as important as major TV personalities devoting time to the situation, and saying that a million or more desperate refugees will be coming soon. And, of course, Russians are not really the demonstrating kind in the first place, and Moscow is ground zero for pro-Western sentiment and money.
The lack of a warm feeling towards the leadership of Novorossiya is probably true, but how many Russians have a warm feeling towards their rulers in Moscow? This is beside the point: Russia is in danger, and all serious folks know it. The only question is what to do.
Pedro de Hungria says –
Russia must intervene now and take it ALL including western Ukraine. If one square inch is left in the hands of Obama’s Nazis, a NATO flag will be planted there with a nuclear knife at Russia’s throat.
All Right Sector and other Nazi groups should be declared criminal ogranizations like the Waffen SS was at Nuremburg. All members (still alive) should be arrested and charged with war crimes and membership in a criminal organization. That goes for entire Nazi coup regime too including the ‘Gas Princess’ – any of these people left to run ‘free’ will work with CIA terror groups.
Split Novorossiya (ALL South-East) off and make independent country. West Ukraine should be de-Nazified and pro-Russian gov’t installed. Suitable help with security forces will keep it that way.
Washington has decided to attack Russia NOW before she gets any stronger. Economic war and Cold War 2 will be waged. Saker, You have correctly explained why nuclear war is ‘off the table’ – the American generals are saner than Washington Politicians. No amount of being ‘nice’ or negotiation will work. Any agreements will be broken. Economic war (sanctions) are coming even if Russia does nothing. There is nothing to lose except time for NATO to plant that flag.
Saker, I am a generation older than you and have lived with the Americans for almost 50 years before going off into South American exile. I know those bastards well. They will huff and puff, but they are bluffing. There will be NO direct military confrontation. The Americans are cowards when it comes to war with anybody who can fight back.
As for economics, Russia must break with the ‘west’ and turn to the East and inward. Anything they buy from the west can be cut off in a heartbeat. If Russia and China stand firm, there is a chance for a multi-polar world. If Putin gives in now, the Anglo-Zionist Empire will move to crush Russia and China to continue the Dollar Regime and the domination that goes with it.
Putin must step up to the plate and do the right thing. This has been forced on him and Russia. There is now no other choice. The Nazi slaughter in ALL Novorossiya (not just Donetsk and Lugansk) must be stopped.
Thank you for your intelligent blog – it cannot be easy with family and work. I am an amature historian, but not a digital person. This is only the 3rd time I’ve ever commented on the Internet in my life.
Hasta la Victoria Siempre, Pedro de Hungria
@Theodore Svedberg:Saker you are just inviting to the charge of antisemitism with some of your words. Anglo-zionism instead of Western or US imperialism and Jewish Bolshevism instead of, well, Bolshevism.
And why should that bother me more than a possible charge of being anti-Masonic or anti-Aristocratic when I write of “Aristocratic-Masonic coup”? First, facts are facts, and if I am accused to stating facts, then I plead guilty. The February revolution was mostly Aristoctatic-Masonic and the October revolution was mostly Jewish-Bolshevik. One can be unhappy about this fact (as I am) but one cannot be unhappy with me stating the fact. When I used AngloZionist it is only the “Zionist” part which get’s challenged. Never the ‘Anglo’ even though most readers of this blog are Anglos and even though Anglo is an ethnicity while Zionist is a tribal/ideological category. The fact is that we have been brainwashed into giving Jews some kind of special status which only allows positive mention. Screw that! I am a free person and I speak my mind freely, and if some brainwashed zombie (and I don’t mean you) wants to read into what I write some evil anti-Semitism – fuck him. Why should I care? This reaction says more about him than about me.
Surely you are aware that Nazi Germany’s major enemy, at least as described in mass propaganda, was “Jewish Bolshevism”, not Russians, not their Russian orthodox church, not Slavs or untermenschen.
True. And did it ever occur to you that in this specific case the Nazis were correct? Even a broken watch is right ever 12 hours, no? Like Malcolm X said: I am for truth, no matter who tells it., even if it was a Nazi. Besides, the Nazis did not invent that concept. It came to Germany from ethnic German exiles from Russia who had seen the revolution with their own eyes. Frankly, anybody even remotely knowledgeable about the October Revolution will know that while most Jews were not Bolsheviks, most Bolsheviks were Jews. By the way, in the 1920s and 1930s Jews in the USA and Europe took a great deal of pride in that. Why should I – in 2014! – suddenly feel compelled to not state this fact?!
You invite the charge of antisemitism borrowing terms like that from the Nazis.
I invite the charge of antisemitism just by having a blog critical of the MSM. I invite the charge of antisemitism just by saying that 9/11 was an inside job. In fact, I invite the charge of antisemitism just for using my head. So? I am in good company – from Saint Paul to Jimmy Carter.
I am so tired of this shit that I frankly don’t give a damn any more. Maybe I should put a banner on top of the blog saying “YES! I AM GUILTY OF ANTISEMITISM!!!”? Alas, that would trigger an influx of *real* Jew haters and various types of Nazis which I had to battle for too long to get rid off to want to repeat the experiment…
My solution? Fuck all those who want to censor free and honest thought and who apply idiotic and meaningless labels to those who think with their own brain.
… to be continued